Components

24 Twig Components
226 Render Count
665 ms Render Time
20.0 MiB Memory Usage

Components

Name Metadata Render Count Render Time
date
"App\Twig\Components\DateComponent"
components/date.html.twig
26 13.95ms
user_inline
"App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent"
components/user_inline.html.twig
25 13.16ms
date_edited
"App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent"
components/date_edited.html.twig
24 3.03ms
vote
"App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent"
components/vote.html.twig
24 26.81ms
boost
"App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent"
components/boost.html.twig
24 35.57ms
entry_comment
"App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent"
components/entry_comment.html.twig
23 2,075.37ms
user_avatar
"App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent"
components/user_avatar.html.twig
23 3.94ms
entry_comments_nested
"App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentsNestedComponent"
components/_cached.html.twig
23 1,679.18ms
settings_row_switch
"App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent"
components/_settings_row_switch.html.twig
15 2.33ms
user_settings_row_switch
"App\Twig\Components\UserSettingsRowSwitchComponent"
components/_user_settings_row_switch.html.twig
4 0.77ms
settings_row_enum
"App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowEnumComponent"
components/_settings_row_enum.html.twig
2 0.38ms
entry
"App\Twig\Components\EntryComponent"
components/_cached.html.twig
1 9.75ms
entries_cross
"App\Twig\Components\EntriesCrossComponent"
components/_cached.html.twig
1 48.17ms
editor_toolbar
"App\Twig\Components\EditorToolbarComponent"
components/editor_toolbar.html.twig
1 0.24ms
user_actions
"App\Twig\Components\UserActionsComponent"
components/user_actions.html.twig
1 0.46ms
magazine_box
"App\Twig\Components\MagazineBoxComponent"
components/magazine_box.html.twig
1 15.16ms
magazine_sub
"App\Twig\Components\MagazineSubComponent"
components/magazine_sub.html.twig
1 6.65ms
related_magazines
"App\Twig\Components\RelatedMagazinesComponent"
components/_cached.html.twig
1 4.85ms
active_users
"App\Twig\Components\ActiveUsersComponent"
components/_cached.html.twig
1 0.23ms
related_categories
"App\Twig\Components\RelatedCategoriesComponent"
components/_cached.html.twig
1 1.42ms
related_posts
"App\Twig\Components\RelatedPostsComponent"
components/_cached.html.twig
1 2.23ms
related_entries
"App\Twig\Components\RelatedEntriesComponent"
components/_cached.html.twig
1 1.90ms
support_us_block
"App\Twig\Components\SupportUsBlock"
components/_cached.html.twig
1 0.22ms
featured_magazines
"App\Twig\Components\FeaturedMagazinesComponent"
components/_cached.html.twig
1 0.72ms

Render calls

entry App\Twig\Components\EntryComponent 12.0 MiB 9.75 ms
Input props
[
  "entry" => App\Entity\Entry {#2400
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
      +username: "@sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
      +homepage: "front"
      +about: "There’s not much to learn by talking with people that already agree with you"
      +lastActive: DateTime @1719991224 {#1519
        date: 2024-07-03 09:20:24.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +fields: null
      +oauthGithubId: null
      +oauthGoogleId: null
      +oauthFacebookId: null
      +oauthKeycloakId: null
      +hideAdult: true
      +showSubscribedUsers: true
      +showSubscribedMagazines: true
      +showSubscribedDomains: true
      +preferredLanguages: []
      +featuredMagazines: null
      +showProfileSubscriptions: false
      +showProfileFollowings: true
      +markNewComments: false
      +notifyOnNewEntry: false
      +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
      +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
      +notifyOnNewPost: false
      +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
      +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
      +addMentionsEntries: false
      +addMentionsPosts: true
      +isBanned: false
      +isVerified: false
      +isDeleted: false
      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1631 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1713 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1710 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1742 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1659 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1747 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1473 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1750 …}
      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1493 …}
      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1778 …}
      +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1627 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1755 …}
      +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1421 …}
      +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1447 …}
      +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1450 …}
      +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1462 …}
      +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1427 …}
      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1437 …}
      +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1430 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1463 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1699 …}
      +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1690 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1696 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1694 …}
      +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1743 …}
      +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1676 …}
      -id: 83255
      -password: "$2y$13$ZZzyPcHzEpm9cPLReoRR8up2XdbOOnjqqvtRYtbNsyNUGTRCnNrLe"
      -totpSecret: null
      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1679 …}
      +apId: "sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
      +apProfileId: "https://lemm.ee/u/sousmerde_retardatr"
      +apPublicUrl: "https://lemm.ee/u/sousmerde_retardatr"
      +apFollowersUrl: null
      +apInboxUrl: "https://lemm.ee/inbox"
      +apDomain: "lemm.ee"
      +apPreferredUsername: "sousmerde_retardatr"
      +apDiscoverable: true
      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
      +privateKey: null
      +publicKey: null
      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1725957135 {#1515
        date: 2024-09-10 10:32:15.0 +02:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
      +apTimeoutAt: null
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703010578 {#1518
        date: 2023-12-19 19:29:38.0 +01:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
      +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
      +title: "asklemmy"
      +description: """
        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
        """
      +rules: null
      +subscriptionsCount: 1
      +entryCount: 1179
      +entryCommentCount: 42676
      +postCount: 3
      +postCommentCount: 67
      +isAdult: false
      +customCss: null
      +lastActive: DateTime @1729583245 {#275
        date: 2024-10-22 09:47:25.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +tags: null
      +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#237 …}
      +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#222 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#180 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#138 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#200 …}
      +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#117 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#103 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#81 …}
      +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#71 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1346 …}
      +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1823 …}
      -id: 49
      +apId: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
      +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmy"
      +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmy"
      +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmy/followers"
      +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
      +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
      +apPreferredUsername: "asklemmy"
      +apDiscoverable: true
      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
      +privateKey: null
      +publicKey: null
      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1729583301 {#269
        date: 2024-10-22 09:48:21.0 +02:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
      +apTimeoutAt: null
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697177027 {#271
        date: 2023-10-13 08:03:47.0 +02:00
      }
    }
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1889 …}
    +slug: "Would-anyone-here-know-why-we-refuse-to-send-international"
    +title: "Would anyone here know why we refuse to send international observers to some countries ?"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
      We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
      Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
      So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
      \n
      For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
      In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
      \n
      If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
      For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
      """
    +type: "article"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: false
    +commentCount: 23
    +favouriteCount: 21
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1701900686 {#2414
      date: 2023-12-06 23:11:26.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1688 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1966 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1965 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1368 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2426 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2439 …}
    +children: []
    -id: 20414
    -titleTs: "'anyon':2 'countri':14 'intern':10 'know':4 'observ':11 'refus':7 'send':9 'would':1"
    -bodyTs: "'accus':115,167 'alreadi':156 'area':252 'aren':180 'argu':175 'ask':36,97,157 'begin':261 'believ':66 'bias':49,73 'boycott':41 'chanc':219 'cheat':118,239,278 'continu':45 'could':14,102,162,173 'count':140,242,271 'countri':23,84 'critic':47 'delet':207 'despit':90 'doesn':201 'doubl':169,244 'elect':33,71,179 'end':185,267 'everyth':255 'extern':76 'eye':258 'find':15,222 'initi':231 'instead':37,53,108 'interest':224 'intern':99,234 'leader':64 'leav':213 'legitim':31,135 'like':147 'lot':20 'm':11,124,212 'matter':203 'may':65 'miscount':290 'miss':125 'observ':100,235,300 'occas':105 'off-chanc':217 'offici':270 'open':163 'oppon':40 'opposit':88 'perfect':182 'place':190 'possibl':281 'post':209 'pressur':77 'prevent':238 'probabl':206 'problem':62 'process':138 'processus':69 'put':79 'quit':18 're':25,155,289,295 'refus':110,296 'sanction':186 'say':27 'see':276 'seem':146 'seen':3 'seiz':107 'send':112,298 'sinc':171 'societi':165 'someth':126 'standard':170 'stay':188 'still':96 'strain':81 'strengthen':86 'sure':12 'surround':50 'syria':8 'think':128 'thought':232 'unjust':75 'us':160 'use':196 'usual':26 've':2 'venezuela':6 'venezuelan':249 'version':285 'vote':52,56,142,246,264,292 'want':133 'way':199 'whole':137 'won':236 'wonder':121 'would':30,149,187,241,279 'wouldn':193 'yet':114,293"
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1701889859
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemm.ee/post/17029313"
    +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703081473 {#1793
      date: 2023-12-20 15:11:13.0 +01:00
    }
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701803459 {#2402
      date: 2023-12-05 20:10:59.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  "isSingle" => true
  "showShortSentence" => false
  "showBody" => true
]
Attributes
[
  "class" => "entry--single section--top"
]
Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryComponent {#2960
  -authorizationChecker: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\AuthorizationChecker {#931 …}
  -newCommentMarkerCount: App\Kbin\NewCommentMarker\NewCommentMarkerCount {#2961 …}
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -security: Symfony\Bundle\SecurityBundle\Security {#1101 …}
  +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2400
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
      +username: "@sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
      +homepage: "front"
      +about: "There’s not much to learn by talking with people that already agree with you"
      +lastActive: DateTime @1719991224 {#1519
        date: 2024-07-03 09:20:24.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +fields: null
      +oauthGithubId: null
      +oauthGoogleId: null
      +oauthFacebookId: null
      +oauthKeycloakId: null
      +hideAdult: true
      +showSubscribedUsers: true
      +showSubscribedMagazines: true
      +showSubscribedDomains: true
      +preferredLanguages: []
      +featuredMagazines: null
      +showProfileSubscriptions: false
      +showProfileFollowings: true
      +markNewComments: false
      +notifyOnNewEntry: false
      +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
      +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
      +notifyOnNewPost: false
      +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
      +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
      +addMentionsEntries: false
      +addMentionsPosts: true
      +isBanned: false
      +isVerified: false
      +isDeleted: false
      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1631 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1713 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1710 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1742 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1659 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1747 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1473 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1750 …}
      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1493 …}
      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1778 …}
      +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1627 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1755 …}
      +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1421 …}
      +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1447 …}
      +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1450 …}
      +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1462 …}
      +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1427 …}
      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1437 …}
      +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1430 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1463 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1699 …}
      +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1690 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1696 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1694 …}
      +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1743 …}
      +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1676 …}
      -id: 83255
      -password: "$2y$13$ZZzyPcHzEpm9cPLReoRR8up2XdbOOnjqqvtRYtbNsyNUGTRCnNrLe"
      -totpSecret: null
      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1679 …}
      +apId: "sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
      +apProfileId: "https://lemm.ee/u/sousmerde_retardatr"
      +apPublicUrl: "https://lemm.ee/u/sousmerde_retardatr"
      +apFollowersUrl: null
      +apInboxUrl: "https://lemm.ee/inbox"
      +apDomain: "lemm.ee"
      +apPreferredUsername: "sousmerde_retardatr"
      +apDiscoverable: true
      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
      +privateKey: null
      +publicKey: null
      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1725957135 {#1515
        date: 2024-09-10 10:32:15.0 +02:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
      +apTimeoutAt: null
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703010578 {#1518
        date: 2023-12-19 19:29:38.0 +01:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
      +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
      +title: "asklemmy"
      +description: """
        A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
        -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
        ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
        """
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      I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
      We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
      Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
      So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
      \n
      For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
      In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
      \n
      If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
      For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
      """
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        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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      I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
      We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
      Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
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      For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
      In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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      If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
      For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
      """
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        **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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        \n
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        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
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        4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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        5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        Partnered Communities:\n
        ----------------------\n
        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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        ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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      I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
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      Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
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boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 12.0 MiB 1.24 ms
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        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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        \n
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        \n
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        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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        \n
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        \n
        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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        1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        \n
        Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
        \n
        Partnered Communities:\n
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        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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        \n
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        ------------------------\n
        \n
        ---\n
        \n
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        \n
        [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
        \n
        [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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        [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
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          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
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          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
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          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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      > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
      \n
      Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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      > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
      \n
      Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
      """
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    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3997 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3989 …}
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    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3985 …}
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    +privateKey: null
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687491751 {#4047
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  +showAvatar: false
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date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 12.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
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    date: 2023-12-05 21:41:14.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#4750
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1701808874 {#3990
    date: 2023-12-05 21:41:14.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 12.0 MiB 0.09 ms
Input props
[
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    date: 2023-12-05 21:41:14.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#4804
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701808874 {#3990
    date: 2023-12-05 21:41:14.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 12.0 MiB 0.46 ms
Input props
[
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    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3994 …}
    +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3998 …}
    +email: "BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world"
    +username: "@BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: "💣💣💣"
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729317735 {#4053
      date: 2024-10-19 08:02:15.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
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    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3997 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3989 …}
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    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3985 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3982 …}
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    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4105 …}
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  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#4860
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    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3994 …}
    +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3998 …}
    +email: "BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world"
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    +roles: []
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    +homepage: "front"
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vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 12.0 MiB 0.35 ms
Input props
[
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      +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3994 …}
      +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3998 …}
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        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
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        +title: "asklemmy"
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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      > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
      \n
      Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
      """
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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      \n
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          \n
          ---\n
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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          Partnered Communities:\n
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          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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      > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
      \n
      Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
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          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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      > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
      \n
      Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
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          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
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        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
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      > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
      \n
      Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
      """
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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      > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
      \n
      Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
      """
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      +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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      +body: "Maybe we should some to their next one to make sure it’s actually democratic"
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          I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
          \n
          My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
          \n
          If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
          """
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      +body: """
        (i didn’t know [that](https://www.businessinsider.com/international-observers-say-no-voter-fraud-us-election-oas-2020-11?r=US&IR=T), it’d require more researchs than i did on the claims of each side, they’d perhaps say that the coverage was insufficient).  \n
        In my opinion we don’t have anything to lose by strengthening our electoral system, and every accusation is an occasion to improve it, unless you think that it is already failproof, i’ve seen long lists of arguments at the end of 2020, but John Oliver also made three videos on the topic of fraud prior to that, and our side didn’t hesitate to have doubts twice on the results for Bernie Sanders, whether it happened or not, i do think that cheating is a serious possibility and that such claims should be solved by better measures to please the future candidates/incumbents, instead of only relying on censorship(, [youtube](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/02/business/youtube-election-misinformation-policy/index.html), facebook, twitter, …). To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition, and we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.
        """
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        date: 2023-12-22 07:14:15.0 +01:00
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      +body: """
        > To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition,\n
        \n
        I don’t know if you are referring to Trump, but if you are, I disagree. My position is that he attempted to overthrow the election with a flood of false claims and frivolous lawsuit, intimidating state election authorities to sway the election in his favor, and the whole Jan 6 insurrection. If you don’t agree that’s fine, but I would like to not discuss that. If anyone at this point disagrees, then there is no point in having a discussion about it because we are not working in the same reality with the same rules for logic.\n
        \n
        > we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.\n
        \n
        My argument is that placing people loyal to Trump in any process that involves handling or monitoring the election is giving them an opportunity to cheat the election in favor of Trump. Trump have convincingly demonstrated a complete lack of integrity and connection with reality. If you disagree, that’s fine as well. However, I do not want to debate that for the same reasons as above.
        """
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      +body: "Fair enough, i’ll just point out that with such enhanced surveillance it’d be even more difficult than currently(, and ideally impossible,) for people loyal(, or hostile,) to Trump to cheat the election. Thanks for the chat"
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        > Thanks for the chat\n
        \n
        Same! 🙂
        """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
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          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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        > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
        \n
        Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
        """
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    +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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        -password: "$2y$13$WznkMPg5BVlYMuuEBG9NcuKTNfFuwKbF5OxfDpXhte/n4Uq/w4zZK"
        -totpSecret: null
        -totpBackupCodes: []
        -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4083 …}
        +apId: "BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world"
        +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/u/BackOnMyBS"
        +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/u/BackOnMyBS"
        +apFollowersUrl: null
        +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
        +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
        +apPreferredUsername: "BackOnMyBS"
        +apDiscoverable: true
        +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
        +privateKey: null
        +publicKey: null
        +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1729569529 {#4049
          date: 2024-10-22 05:58:49.0 +02:00
        }
        +apDeletedAt: null
        +apTimeoutAt: null
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687491751 {#4047
          date: 2023-06-23 05:42:31.0 +02:00
        }
      }
      +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2400}
      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265}
      +image: null
      +parent: null
      +root: null
      +body: """
        > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
        \n
        Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 18
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1703254644 {#4054
        date: 2023-12-22 15:17:24.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4043 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4041 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4039 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4037 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4005 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4009 …}
      -id: 200125
      -bodyTs: "'alreadi':42 'audac':13 'candid':33 'elect':10,22,39 'imagin':11 'legitim':8,20,36,45 'lose':32 'next':47 'one':24,48 'parti':28 'past':38 'presid':30 'previous':29 're':2 'refus':43 'say':4,18 'us':16 'usual':3 'would':7"
      +ranking: 0
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      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701808874 {#3990
        date: 2023-12-05 21:41:14.0 +01:00
      }
    }
    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4045}
    +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
    +favouriteCount: 1
    +score: 0
    +lastActive: DateTime @1701815516 {#4351
      date: 2023-12-05 23:31:56.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +tags: null
    +mentions: [
      "@sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
      "@BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4354 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4356 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4358 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4360 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4362 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4364 …}
    -id: 200478
    -bodyTs: "'absenc':14 'approv':20 'consid':35 'could':18,42 'doubt':27 'elect':6 'electron':16 'everi':47 'excus':57 'formul':30 'generalis':45 'great':39 'humili':36 'intern':10 'may':33 'observ':11,32 'order':53 'perhap':8,43 'power':40 'prevent':25,55 're':5 're-elect':4 'repres':48 'republ':49 'side':23 'vote':17"
    +ranking: 0
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    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
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    +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/7023638"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701815516 {#4352
      date: 2023-12-05 23:31:56.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  +showMagazineName: false
  +showEntryTitle: false
  +showNested: true
  +level: 2
  +canSeeTrash: false
  +dateAsUrl: false
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -authorizationChecker: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\AuthorizationChecker {#931 …}
}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 12.0 MiB 0.15 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
    +username: "@sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: "There’s not much to learn by talking with people that already agree with you"
    +lastActive: DateTime @1719991224 {#1519
      date: 2024-07-03 09:20:24.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1631 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1713 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1710 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1742 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1659 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1747 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1473 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1750 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1493 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1778 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1627 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1755 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1421 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1447 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1450 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1462 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1427 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1437 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1430 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1463 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1699 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1690 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1696 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1694 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1679 …}
    +apId: "sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
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    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemm.ee/u/sousmerde_retardatr"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemm.ee/inbox"
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    +privateKey: null
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      date: 2024-09-10 10:32:15.0 +02:00
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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      date: 2023-12-19 19:29:38.0 +01:00
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    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#5376
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
    +username: "@sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: "There’s not much to learn by talking with people that already agree with you"
    +lastActive: DateTime @1719991224 {#1519
      date: 2024-07-03 09:20:24.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
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    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1631 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1713 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1710 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1742 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1659 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1747 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1473 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1750 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1493 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1778 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1627 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1755 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1421 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1447 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1450 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1462 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1427 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1437 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1430 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1463 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1699 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1690 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1696 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1694 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1743 …}
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    -id: 83255
    -password: "$2y$13$ZZzyPcHzEpm9cPLReoRR8up2XdbOOnjqqvtRYtbNsyNUGTRCnNrLe"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1679 …}
    +apId: "sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
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    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemm.ee/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemm.ee"
    +apPreferredUsername: "sousmerde_retardatr"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1725957135 {#1515
      date: 2024-09-10 10:32:15.0 +02:00
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703010578 {#1518
      date: 2023-12-19 19:29:38.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +showAvatar: false
}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 12.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1701815516 {#4352
    date: 2023-12-05 23:31:56.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#5431
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1701815516 {#4352
    date: 2023-12-05 23:31:56.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 12.0 MiB 0.09 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1701815516 {#4352
    date: 2023-12-05 23:31:56.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#5485
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701815516 {#4352
    date: 2023-12-05 23:31:56.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 12.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
    +username: "@sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: "There’s not much to learn by talking with people that already agree with you"
    +lastActive: DateTime @1719991224 {#1519
      date: 2024-07-03 09:20:24.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
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    +addMentionsEntries: false
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    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1631 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1713 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1710 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1742 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1659 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1747 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1473 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1750 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1493 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1778 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1627 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1755 …}
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    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1447 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1450 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1462 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1427 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1437 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1430 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1463 …}
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    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1690 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1696 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1694 …}
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    -id: 83255
    -password: "$2y$13$ZZzyPcHzEpm9cPLReoRR8up2XdbOOnjqqvtRYtbNsyNUGTRCnNrLe"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1679 …}
    +apId: "sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
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    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemm.ee/inbox"
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    +privateKey: null
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    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1725957135 {#1515
      date: 2024-09-10 10:32:15.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703010578 {#1518
      date: 2023-12-19 19:29:38.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#5539
  +width: 40
  +height: 40
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
    +username: "@sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: "There’s not much to learn by talking with people that already agree with you"
    +lastActive: DateTime @1719991224 {#1519
      date: 2024-07-03 09:20:24.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
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    +addMentionsEntries: false
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    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1631 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1713 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1710 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1742 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1659 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1747 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1473 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1750 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1493 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1778 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1627 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1755 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1421 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1447 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1450 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1462 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1427 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1437 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1430 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1463 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1699 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1690 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1696 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1694 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1743 …}
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    -password: "$2y$13$ZZzyPcHzEpm9cPLReoRR8up2XdbOOnjqqvtRYtbNsyNUGTRCnNrLe"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1679 …}
    +apId: "sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemm.ee/u/sousmerde_retardatr"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemm.ee/u/sousmerde_retardatr"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemm.ee/inbox"
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    +apDiscoverable: true
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    +privateKey: null
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      date: 2024-09-10 10:32:15.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703010578 {#1518
      date: 2023-12-19 19:29:38.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +asLink: true
}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 12.0 MiB 0.43 ms
Input props
[
  "subject" => App\Entity\EntryComment {#4353
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
      +username: "@sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
      +roles: []
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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        > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
        \n
        Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
        """
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    +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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        > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
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        Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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        > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
        \n
        Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
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    +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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        > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
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        Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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        > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
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        Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
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    +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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        > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
        \n
        Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
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    +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 12.0 MiB 93.10 ms
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
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          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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      +title: "Would anyone here know why we refuse to send international observers to some countries ?"
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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          > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
          \n
          Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
          """
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      +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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      I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
      \n
      My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
      \n
      If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
      """
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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      +slug: "Would-anyone-here-know-why-we-refuse-to-send-international"
      +title: "Would anyone here know why we refuse to send international observers to some countries ?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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          > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
          \n
          Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
          """
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        -bodyTs: "'alreadi':42 'audac':13 'candid':33 'elect':10,22,39 'imagin':11 'legitim':8,20,36,45 'lose':32 'next':47 'one':24,48 'parti':28 'past':38 'presid':30 'previous':29 're':2 'refus':43 'say':4,18 'us':16 'usual':3 'would':7"
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      +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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    +body: """
      I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
      \n
      My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
      \n
      If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
      """
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Component
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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          > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
          \n
          Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
          """
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      +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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      I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
      \n
      My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
      \n
      If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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          > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
          \n
          Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
          """
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      +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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      I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
      \n
      My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
      \n
      If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
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          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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          > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
          \n
          Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
          """
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      +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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    +body: """
      I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
      \n
      My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
      \n
      If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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          \n
          ---\n
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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          > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
          \n
          Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
          """
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      +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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    +body: """
      I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
      \n
      My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
      \n
      If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
      """
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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          > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
          \n
          Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
          """
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      +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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      I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
      \n
      My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
      \n
      If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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          Partnered Communities:\n
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          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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        +body: """
          > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
          \n
          Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
          """
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      +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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    +body: """
      I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
      \n
      My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
      \n
      If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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          +body: """
            > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
            \n
            Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
            """
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        +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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      +body: """
        I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
        \n
        My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
        \n
        If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
        """
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      (i didn’t know [that](https://www.businessinsider.com/international-observers-say-no-voter-fraud-us-election-oas-2020-11?r=US&IR=T), it’d require more researchs than i did on the claims of each side, they’d perhaps say that the coverage was insufficient).  \n
      In my opinion we don’t have anything to lose by strengthening our electoral system, and every accusation is an occasion to improve it, unless you think that it is already failproof, i’ve seen long lists of arguments at the end of 2020, but John Oliver also made three videos on the topic of fraud prior to that, and our side didn’t hesitate to have doubts twice on the results for Bernie Sanders, whether it happened or not, i do think that cheating is a serious possibility and that such claims should be solved by better measures to please the future candidates/incumbents, instead of only relying on censorship(, [youtube](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/02/business/youtube-election-misinformation-policy/index.html), facebook, twitter, …). To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition, and we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.
      """
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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            > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
            \n
            Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
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        +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701815516 {#4352
          date: 2023-12-05 23:31:56.0 +01:00
        }
      }
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4045}
      +body: """
        I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
        \n
        My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
        \n
        If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
        """
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        "@BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world"
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        date: 2023-12-06 17:35:04.0 +01:00
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4045}
    +body: """
      (i didn’t know [that](https://www.businessinsider.com/international-observers-say-no-voter-fraud-us-election-oas-2020-11?r=US&IR=T), it’d require more researchs than i did on the claims of each side, they’d perhaps say that the coverage was insufficient).  \n
      In my opinion we don’t have anything to lose by strengthening our electoral system, and every accusation is an occasion to improve it, unless you think that it is already failproof, i’ve seen long lists of arguments at the end of 2020, but John Oliver also made three videos on the topic of fraud prior to that, and our side didn’t hesitate to have doubts twice on the results for Bernie Sanders, whether it happened or not, i do think that cheating is a serious possibility and that such claims should be solved by better measures to please the future candidates/incumbents, instead of only relying on censorship(, [youtube](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/02/business/youtube-election-misinformation-policy/index.html), facebook, twitter, …). To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition, and we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.
      """
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  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
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user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 12.0 MiB 0.19 ms
Input props
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date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 12.0 MiB 10.02 ms
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#6698
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}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 12.0 MiB 0.19 ms
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Input props
[
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Attributes
[]
Component
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
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          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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            > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
            \n
            Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
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        +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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        I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
        \n
        My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
        \n
        If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
        """
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      (i didn’t know [that](https://www.businessinsider.com/international-observers-say-no-voter-fraud-us-election-oas-2020-11?r=US&IR=T), it’d require more researchs than i did on the claims of each side, they’d perhaps say that the coverage was insufficient).  \n
      In my opinion we don’t have anything to lose by strengthening our electoral system, and every accusation is an occasion to improve it, unless you think that it is already failproof, i’ve seen long lists of arguments at the end of 2020, but John Oliver also made three videos on the topic of fraud prior to that, and our side didn’t hesitate to have doubts twice on the results for Bernie Sanders, whether it happened or not, i do think that cheating is a serious possibility and that such claims should be solved by better measures to please the future candidates/incumbents, instead of only relying on censorship(, [youtube](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/02/business/youtube-election-misinformation-policy/index.html), facebook, twitter, …). To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition, and we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.
      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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            > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
            \n
            Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
            """
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        +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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      +body: """
        I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
        \n
        My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
        \n
        If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
        """
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    +body: """
      (i didn’t know [that](https://www.businessinsider.com/international-observers-say-no-voter-fraud-us-election-oas-2020-11?r=US&IR=T), it’d require more researchs than i did on the claims of each side, they’d perhaps say that the coverage was insufficient).  \n
      In my opinion we don’t have anything to lose by strengthening our electoral system, and every accusation is an occasion to improve it, unless you think that it is already failproof, i’ve seen long lists of arguments at the end of 2020, but John Oliver also made three videos on the topic of fraud prior to that, and our side didn’t hesitate to have doubts twice on the results for Bernie Sanders, whether it happened or not, i do think that cheating is a serious possibility and that such claims should be solved by better measures to please the future candidates/incumbents, instead of only relying on censorship(, [youtube](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/02/business/youtube-election-misinformation-policy/index.html), facebook, twitter, …). To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition, and we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.
      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
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          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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          ---\n
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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          Partnered Communities:\n
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          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
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          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
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          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
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            > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
            \n
            Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
            """
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        +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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      +body: """
        I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
        \n
        My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
        \n
        If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
        """
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      (i didn’t know [that](https://www.businessinsider.com/international-observers-say-no-voter-fraud-us-election-oas-2020-11?r=US&IR=T), it’d require more researchs than i did on the claims of each side, they’d perhaps say that the coverage was insufficient).  \n
      In my opinion we don’t have anything to lose by strengthening our electoral system, and every accusation is an occasion to improve it, unless you think that it is already failproof, i’ve seen long lists of arguments at the end of 2020, but John Oliver also made three videos on the topic of fraud prior to that, and our side didn’t hesitate to have doubts twice on the results for Bernie Sanders, whether it happened or not, i do think that cheating is a serious possibility and that such claims should be solved by better measures to please the future candidates/incumbents, instead of only relying on censorship(, [youtube](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/02/business/youtube-election-misinformation-policy/index.html), facebook, twitter, …). To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition, and we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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          +body: """
            > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
            \n
            Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
            """
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        +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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      +body: """
        I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
        \n
        My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
        \n
        If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
        """
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      (i didn’t know [that](https://www.businessinsider.com/international-observers-say-no-voter-fraud-us-election-oas-2020-11?r=US&IR=T), it’d require more researchs than i did on the claims of each side, they’d perhaps say that the coverage was insufficient).  \n
      In my opinion we don’t have anything to lose by strengthening our electoral system, and every accusation is an occasion to improve it, unless you think that it is already failproof, i’ve seen long lists of arguments at the end of 2020, but John Oliver also made three videos on the topic of fraud prior to that, and our side didn’t hesitate to have doubts twice on the results for Bernie Sanders, whether it happened or not, i do think that cheating is a serious possibility and that such claims should be solved by better measures to please the future candidates/incumbents, instead of only relying on censorship(, [youtube](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/02/business/youtube-election-misinformation-policy/index.html), facebook, twitter, …). To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition, and we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.
      """
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
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        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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            > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
            \n
            Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
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        +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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        I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
        \n
        My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
        \n
        If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
        """
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      (i didn’t know [that](https://www.businessinsider.com/international-observers-say-no-voter-fraud-us-election-oas-2020-11?r=US&IR=T), it’d require more researchs than i did on the claims of each side, they’d perhaps say that the coverage was insufficient).  \n
      In my opinion we don’t have anything to lose by strengthening our electoral system, and every accusation is an occasion to improve it, unless you think that it is already failproof, i’ve seen long lists of arguments at the end of 2020, but John Oliver also made three videos on the topic of fraud prior to that, and our side didn’t hesitate to have doubts twice on the results for Bernie Sanders, whether it happened or not, i do think that cheating is a serious possibility and that such claims should be solved by better measures to please the future candidates/incumbents, instead of only relying on censorship(, [youtube](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/02/business/youtube-election-misinformation-policy/index.html), facebook, twitter, …). To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition, and we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.
      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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          +body: """
            > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
            \n
            Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
            """
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4045}
        +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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          "@BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world"
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      +body: """
        I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
        \n
        My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
        \n
        If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
        """
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    +body: """
      (i didn’t know [that](https://www.businessinsider.com/international-observers-say-no-voter-fraud-us-election-oas-2020-11?r=US&IR=T), it’d require more researchs than i did on the claims of each side, they’d perhaps say that the coverage was insufficient).  \n
      In my opinion we don’t have anything to lose by strengthening our electoral system, and every accusation is an occasion to improve it, unless you think that it is already failproof, i’ve seen long lists of arguments at the end of 2020, but John Oliver also made three videos on the topic of fraud prior to that, and our side didn’t hesitate to have doubts twice on the results for Bernie Sanders, whether it happened or not, i do think that cheating is a serious possibility and that such claims should be solved by better measures to please the future candidates/incumbents, instead of only relying on censorship(, [youtube](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/02/business/youtube-election-misinformation-policy/index.html), facebook, twitter, …). To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition, and we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.
      """
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entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 12.0 MiB 66.20 ms
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        +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
        +title: "asklemmy"
        +description: """
          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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              > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
              \n
              Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
              """
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          +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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        +body: """
          I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
          \n
          My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
          \n
          If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
          """
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      +body: """
        (i didn’t know [that](https://www.businessinsider.com/international-observers-say-no-voter-fraud-us-election-oas-2020-11?r=US&IR=T), it’d require more researchs than i did on the claims of each side, they’d perhaps say that the coverage was insufficient).  \n
        In my opinion we don’t have anything to lose by strengthening our electoral system, and every accusation is an occasion to improve it, unless you think that it is already failproof, i’ve seen long lists of arguments at the end of 2020, but John Oliver also made three videos on the topic of fraud prior to that, and our side didn’t hesitate to have doubts twice on the results for Bernie Sanders, whether it happened or not, i do think that cheating is a serious possibility and that such claims should be solved by better measures to please the future candidates/incumbents, instead of only relying on censorship(, [youtube](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/02/business/youtube-election-misinformation-policy/index.html), facebook, twitter, …). To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition, and we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.
        """
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      > To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition,\n
      \n
      I don’t know if you are referring to Trump, but if you are, I disagree. My position is that he attempted to overthrow the election with a flood of false claims and frivolous lawsuit, intimidating state election authorities to sway the election in his favor, and the whole Jan 6 insurrection. If you don’t agree that’s fine, but I would like to not discuss that. If anyone at this point disagrees, then there is no point in having a discussion about it because we are not working in the same reality with the same rules for logic.\n
      \n
      > we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.\n
      \n
      My argument is that placing people loyal to Trump in any process that involves handling or monitoring the election is giving them an opportunity to cheat the election in favor of Trump. Trump have convincingly demonstrated a complete lack of integrity and connection with reality. If you disagree, that’s fine as well. However, I do not want to debate that for the same reasons as above.
      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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              > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
              \n
              Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
              """
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          +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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        +body: """
          I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
          \n
          My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
          \n
          If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
          """
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        (i didn’t know [that](https://www.businessinsider.com/international-observers-say-no-voter-fraud-us-election-oas-2020-11?r=US&IR=T), it’d require more researchs than i did on the claims of each side, they’d perhaps say that the coverage was insufficient).  \n
        In my opinion we don’t have anything to lose by strengthening our electoral system, and every accusation is an occasion to improve it, unless you think that it is already failproof, i’ve seen long lists of arguments at the end of 2020, but John Oliver also made three videos on the topic of fraud prior to that, and our side didn’t hesitate to have doubts twice on the results for Bernie Sanders, whether it happened or not, i do think that cheating is a serious possibility and that such claims should be solved by better measures to please the future candidates/incumbents, instead of only relying on censorship(, [youtube](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/02/business/youtube-election-misinformation-policy/index.html), facebook, twitter, …). To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition, and we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.
        """
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    +body: """
      > To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition,\n
      \n
      I don’t know if you are referring to Trump, but if you are, I disagree. My position is that he attempted to overthrow the election with a flood of false claims and frivolous lawsuit, intimidating state election authorities to sway the election in his favor, and the whole Jan 6 insurrection. If you don’t agree that’s fine, but I would like to not discuss that. If anyone at this point disagrees, then there is no point in having a discussion about it because we are not working in the same reality with the same rules for logic.\n
      \n
      > we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.\n
      \n
      My argument is that placing people loyal to Trump in any process that involves handling or monitoring the election is giving them an opportunity to cheat the election in favor of Trump. Trump have convincingly demonstrated a complete lack of integrity and connection with reality. If you disagree, that’s fine as well. However, I do not want to debate that for the same reasons as above.
      """
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Input props
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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              > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
              \n
              Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
              """
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          +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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          I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
          \n
          My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
          \n
          If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
          """
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      +body: """
        (i didn’t know [that](https://www.businessinsider.com/international-observers-say-no-voter-fraud-us-election-oas-2020-11?r=US&IR=T), it’d require more researchs than i did on the claims of each side, they’d perhaps say that the coverage was insufficient).  \n
        In my opinion we don’t have anything to lose by strengthening our electoral system, and every accusation is an occasion to improve it, unless you think that it is already failproof, i’ve seen long lists of arguments at the end of 2020, but John Oliver also made three videos on the topic of fraud prior to that, and our side didn’t hesitate to have doubts twice on the results for Bernie Sanders, whether it happened or not, i do think that cheating is a serious possibility and that such claims should be solved by better measures to please the future candidates/incumbents, instead of only relying on censorship(, [youtube](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/02/business/youtube-election-misinformation-policy/index.html), facebook, twitter, …). To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition, and we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.
        """
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      > To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition,\n
      \n
      I don’t know if you are referring to Trump, but if you are, I disagree. My position is that he attempted to overthrow the election with a flood of false claims and frivolous lawsuit, intimidating state election authorities to sway the election in his favor, and the whole Jan 6 insurrection. If you don’t agree that’s fine, but I would like to not discuss that. If anyone at this point disagrees, then there is no point in having a discussion about it because we are not working in the same reality with the same rules for logic.\n
      \n
      > we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.\n
      \n
      My argument is that placing people loyal to Trump in any process that involves handling or monitoring the election is giving them an opportunity to cheat the election in favor of Trump. Trump have convincingly demonstrated a complete lack of integrity and connection with reality. If you disagree, that’s fine as well. However, I do not want to debate that for the same reasons as above.
      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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          ---\n
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          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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          ---\n
          \n
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          \n
          ---\n
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          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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      +title: "Would anyone here know why we refuse to send international observers to some countries ?"
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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              > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
              \n
              Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
              """
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          +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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        +body: """
          I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
          \n
          My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
          \n
          If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
          """
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        (i didn’t know [that](https://www.businessinsider.com/international-observers-say-no-voter-fraud-us-election-oas-2020-11?r=US&IR=T), it’d require more researchs than i did on the claims of each side, they’d perhaps say that the coverage was insufficient).  \n
        In my opinion we don’t have anything to lose by strengthening our electoral system, and every accusation is an occasion to improve it, unless you think that it is already failproof, i’ve seen long lists of arguments at the end of 2020, but John Oliver also made three videos on the topic of fraud prior to that, and our side didn’t hesitate to have doubts twice on the results for Bernie Sanders, whether it happened or not, i do think that cheating is a serious possibility and that such claims should be solved by better measures to please the future candidates/incumbents, instead of only relying on censorship(, [youtube](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/02/business/youtube-election-misinformation-policy/index.html), facebook, twitter, …). To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition, and we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.
        """
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      > To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition,\n
      \n
      I don’t know if you are referring to Trump, but if you are, I disagree. My position is that he attempted to overthrow the election with a flood of false claims and frivolous lawsuit, intimidating state election authorities to sway the election in his favor, and the whole Jan 6 insurrection. If you don’t agree that’s fine, but I would like to not discuss that. If anyone at this point disagrees, then there is no point in having a discussion about it because we are not working in the same reality with the same rules for logic.\n
      \n
      > we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.\n
      \n
      My argument is that placing people loyal to Trump in any process that involves handling or monitoring the election is giving them an opportunity to cheat the election in favor of Trump. Trump have convincingly demonstrated a complete lack of integrity and connection with reality. If you disagree, that’s fine as well. However, I do not want to debate that for the same reasons as above.
      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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              > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
              \n
              Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
              """
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          +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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        +body: """
          I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
          \n
          My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
          \n
          If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
          """
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        (i didn’t know [that](https://www.businessinsider.com/international-observers-say-no-voter-fraud-us-election-oas-2020-11?r=US&IR=T), it’d require more researchs than i did on the claims of each side, they’d perhaps say that the coverage was insufficient).  \n
        In my opinion we don’t have anything to lose by strengthening our electoral system, and every accusation is an occasion to improve it, unless you think that it is already failproof, i’ve seen long lists of arguments at the end of 2020, but John Oliver also made three videos on the topic of fraud prior to that, and our side didn’t hesitate to have doubts twice on the results for Bernie Sanders, whether it happened or not, i do think that cheating is a serious possibility and that such claims should be solved by better measures to please the future candidates/incumbents, instead of only relying on censorship(, [youtube](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/02/business/youtube-election-misinformation-policy/index.html), facebook, twitter, …). To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition, and we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.
        """
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      > To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition,\n
      \n
      I don’t know if you are referring to Trump, but if you are, I disagree. My position is that he attempted to overthrow the election with a flood of false claims and frivolous lawsuit, intimidating state election authorities to sway the election in his favor, and the whole Jan 6 insurrection. If you don’t agree that’s fine, but I would like to not discuss that. If anyone at this point disagrees, then there is no point in having a discussion about it because we are not working in the same reality with the same rules for logic.\n
      \n
      > we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.\n
      \n
      My argument is that placing people loyal to Trump in any process that involves handling or monitoring the election is giving them an opportunity to cheat the election in favor of Trump. Trump have convincingly demonstrated a complete lack of integrity and connection with reality. If you disagree, that’s fine as well. However, I do not want to debate that for the same reasons as above.
      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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          ---\n
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          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
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          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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              > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
              \n
              Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
              """
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          +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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        +body: """
          I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
          \n
          My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
          \n
          If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
          """
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      +body: """
        (i didn’t know [that](https://www.businessinsider.com/international-observers-say-no-voter-fraud-us-election-oas-2020-11?r=US&IR=T), it’d require more researchs than i did on the claims of each side, they’d perhaps say that the coverage was insufficient).  \n
        In my opinion we don’t have anything to lose by strengthening our electoral system, and every accusation is an occasion to improve it, unless you think that it is already failproof, i’ve seen long lists of arguments at the end of 2020, but John Oliver also made three videos on the topic of fraud prior to that, and our side didn’t hesitate to have doubts twice on the results for Bernie Sanders, whether it happened or not, i do think that cheating is a serious possibility and that such claims should be solved by better measures to please the future candidates/incumbents, instead of only relying on censorship(, [youtube](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/02/business/youtube-election-misinformation-policy/index.html), facebook, twitter, …). To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition, and we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.
        """
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      > To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition,\n
      \n
      I don’t know if you are referring to Trump, but if you are, I disagree. My position is that he attempted to overthrow the election with a flood of false claims and frivolous lawsuit, intimidating state election authorities to sway the election in his favor, and the whole Jan 6 insurrection. If you don’t agree that’s fine, but I would like to not discuss that. If anyone at this point disagrees, then there is no point in having a discussion about it because we are not working in the same reality with the same rules for logic.\n
      \n
      > we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.\n
      \n
      My argument is that placing people loyal to Trump in any process that involves handling or monitoring the election is giving them an opportunity to cheat the election in favor of Trump. Trump have convincingly demonstrated a complete lack of integrity and connection with reality. If you disagree, that’s fine as well. However, I do not want to debate that for the same reasons as above.
      """
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          ---\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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              > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
              \n
              Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
              """
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          +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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        +body: """
          I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
          \n
          My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
          \n
          If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
          """
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        (i didn’t know [that](https://www.businessinsider.com/international-observers-say-no-voter-fraud-us-election-oas-2020-11?r=US&IR=T), it’d require more researchs than i did on the claims of each side, they’d perhaps say that the coverage was insufficient).  \n
        In my opinion we don’t have anything to lose by strengthening our electoral system, and every accusation is an occasion to improve it, unless you think that it is already failproof, i’ve seen long lists of arguments at the end of 2020, but John Oliver also made three videos on the topic of fraud prior to that, and our side didn’t hesitate to have doubts twice on the results for Bernie Sanders, whether it happened or not, i do think that cheating is a serious possibility and that such claims should be solved by better measures to please the future candidates/incumbents, instead of only relying on censorship(, [youtube](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/02/business/youtube-election-misinformation-policy/index.html), facebook, twitter, …). To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition, and we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.
        """
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      > To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition,\n
      \n
      I don’t know if you are referring to Trump, but if you are, I disagree. My position is that he attempted to overthrow the election with a flood of false claims and frivolous lawsuit, intimidating state election authorities to sway the election in his favor, and the whole Jan 6 insurrection. If you don’t agree that’s fine, but I would like to not discuss that. If anyone at this point disagrees, then there is no point in having a discussion about it because we are not working in the same reality with the same rules for logic.\n
      \n
      > we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.\n
      \n
      My argument is that placing people loyal to Trump in any process that involves handling or monitoring the election is giving them an opportunity to cheat the election in favor of Trump. Trump have convincingly demonstrated a complete lack of integrity and connection with reality. If you disagree, that’s fine as well. However, I do not want to debate that for the same reasons as above.
      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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              > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
              \n
              Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
              """
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          +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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        +body: """
          I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
          \n
          My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
          \n
          If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
          """
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        (i didn’t know [that](https://www.businessinsider.com/international-observers-say-no-voter-fraud-us-election-oas-2020-11?r=US&IR=T), it’d require more researchs than i did on the claims of each side, they’d perhaps say that the coverage was insufficient).  \n
        In my opinion we don’t have anything to lose by strengthening our electoral system, and every accusation is an occasion to improve it, unless you think that it is already failproof, i’ve seen long lists of arguments at the end of 2020, but John Oliver also made three videos on the topic of fraud prior to that, and our side didn’t hesitate to have doubts twice on the results for Bernie Sanders, whether it happened or not, i do think that cheating is a serious possibility and that such claims should be solved by better measures to please the future candidates/incumbents, instead of only relying on censorship(, [youtube](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/02/business/youtube-election-misinformation-policy/index.html), facebook, twitter, …). To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition, and we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.
        """
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      > To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition,\n
      \n
      I don’t know if you are referring to Trump, but if you are, I disagree. My position is that he attempted to overthrow the election with a flood of false claims and frivolous lawsuit, intimidating state election authorities to sway the election in his favor, and the whole Jan 6 insurrection. If you don’t agree that’s fine, but I would like to not discuss that. If anyone at this point disagrees, then there is no point in having a discussion about it because we are not working in the same reality with the same rules for logic.\n
      \n
      > we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.\n
      \n
      My argument is that placing people loyal to Trump in any process that involves handling or monitoring the election is giving them an opportunity to cheat the election in favor of Trump. Trump have convincingly demonstrated a complete lack of integrity and connection with reality. If you disagree, that’s fine as well. However, I do not want to debate that for the same reasons as above.
      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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                > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
                \n
                Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
                """
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            +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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            I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
            \n
            My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
            \n
            If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
            """
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        +body: """
          (i didn’t know [that](https://www.businessinsider.com/international-observers-say-no-voter-fraud-us-election-oas-2020-11?r=US&IR=T), it’d require more researchs than i did on the claims of each side, they’d perhaps say that the coverage was insufficient).  \n
          In my opinion we don’t have anything to lose by strengthening our electoral system, and every accusation is an occasion to improve it, unless you think that it is already failproof, i’ve seen long lists of arguments at the end of 2020, but John Oliver also made three videos on the topic of fraud prior to that, and our side didn’t hesitate to have doubts twice on the results for Bernie Sanders, whether it happened or not, i do think that cheating is a serious possibility and that such claims should be solved by better measures to please the future candidates/incumbents, instead of only relying on censorship(, [youtube](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/02/business/youtube-election-misinformation-policy/index.html), facebook, twitter, …). To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition, and we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.
          """
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        > To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition,\n
        \n
        I don’t know if you are referring to Trump, but if you are, I disagree. My position is that he attempted to overthrow the election with a flood of false claims and frivolous lawsuit, intimidating state election authorities to sway the election in his favor, and the whole Jan 6 insurrection. If you don’t agree that’s fine, but I would like to not discuss that. If anyone at this point disagrees, then there is no point in having a discussion about it because we are not working in the same reality with the same rules for logic.\n
        \n
        > we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.\n
        \n
        My argument is that placing people loyal to Trump in any process that involves handling or monitoring the election is giving them an opportunity to cheat the election in favor of Trump. Trump have convincingly demonstrated a complete lack of integrity and connection with reality. If you disagree, that’s fine as well. However, I do not want to debate that for the same reasons as above.
        """
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    +body: "Fair enough, i’ll just point out that with such enhanced surveillance it’d be even more difficult than currently(, and ideally impossible,) for people loyal(, or hostile,) to Trump to cheat the election. Thanks for the chat"
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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              +body: """
                > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
                \n
                Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
                """
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            +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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          +body: """
            I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
            \n
            My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
            \n
            If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
            """
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          (i didn’t know [that](https://www.businessinsider.com/international-observers-say-no-voter-fraud-us-election-oas-2020-11?r=US&IR=T), it’d require more researchs than i did on the claims of each side, they’d perhaps say that the coverage was insufficient).  \n
          In my opinion we don’t have anything to lose by strengthening our electoral system, and every accusation is an occasion to improve it, unless you think that it is already failproof, i’ve seen long lists of arguments at the end of 2020, but John Oliver also made three videos on the topic of fraud prior to that, and our side didn’t hesitate to have doubts twice on the results for Bernie Sanders, whether it happened or not, i do think that cheating is a serious possibility and that such claims should be solved by better measures to please the future candidates/incumbents, instead of only relying on censorship(, [youtube](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/02/business/youtube-election-misinformation-policy/index.html), facebook, twitter, …). To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition, and we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.
          """
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        > To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition,\n
        \n
        I don’t know if you are referring to Trump, but if you are, I disagree. My position is that he attempted to overthrow the election with a flood of false claims and frivolous lawsuit, intimidating state election authorities to sway the election in his favor, and the whole Jan 6 insurrection. If you don’t agree that’s fine, but I would like to not discuss that. If anyone at this point disagrees, then there is no point in having a discussion about it because we are not working in the same reality with the same rules for logic.\n
        \n
        > we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.\n
        \n
        My argument is that placing people loyal to Trump in any process that involves handling or monitoring the election is giving them an opportunity to cheat the election in favor of Trump. Trump have convincingly demonstrated a complete lack of integrity and connection with reality. If you disagree, that’s fine as well. However, I do not want to debate that for the same reasons as above.
        """
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4045}
    +body: "Fair enough, i’ll just point out that with such enhanced surveillance it’d be even more difficult than currently(, and ideally impossible,) for people loyal(, or hostile,) to Trump to cheat the election. Thanks for the chat"
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user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 12.0 MiB 0.16 ms
Input props
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date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 12.0 MiB 0.15 ms
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[]
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App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#7989
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date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 12.0 MiB 0.10 ms
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Input props
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vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 12.0 MiB 5.83 ms
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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          ---\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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                > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
                \n
                Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
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            +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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            I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
            \n
            My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
            \n
            If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
            """
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        +body: """
          (i didn’t know [that](https://www.businessinsider.com/international-observers-say-no-voter-fraud-us-election-oas-2020-11?r=US&IR=T), it’d require more researchs than i did on the claims of each side, they’d perhaps say that the coverage was insufficient).  \n
          In my opinion we don’t have anything to lose by strengthening our electoral system, and every accusation is an occasion to improve it, unless you think that it is already failproof, i’ve seen long lists of arguments at the end of 2020, but John Oliver also made three videos on the topic of fraud prior to that, and our side didn’t hesitate to have doubts twice on the results for Bernie Sanders, whether it happened or not, i do think that cheating is a serious possibility and that such claims should be solved by better measures to please the future candidates/incumbents, instead of only relying on censorship(, [youtube](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/02/business/youtube-election-misinformation-policy/index.html), facebook, twitter, …). To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition, and we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.
          """
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      +body: """
        > To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition,\n
        \n
        I don’t know if you are referring to Trump, but if you are, I disagree. My position is that he attempted to overthrow the election with a flood of false claims and frivolous lawsuit, intimidating state election authorities to sway the election in his favor, and the whole Jan 6 insurrection. If you don’t agree that’s fine, but I would like to not discuss that. If anyone at this point disagrees, then there is no point in having a discussion about it because we are not working in the same reality with the same rules for logic.\n
        \n
        > we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.\n
        \n
        My argument is that placing people loyal to Trump in any process that involves handling or monitoring the election is giving them an opportunity to cheat the election in favor of Trump. Trump have convincingly demonstrated a complete lack of integrity and connection with reality. If you disagree, that’s fine as well. However, I do not want to debate that for the same reasons as above.
        """
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    +body: "Fair enough, i’ll just point out that with such enhanced surveillance it’d be even more difficult than currently(, and ideally impossible,) for people loyal(, or hostile,) to Trump to cheat the election. Thanks for the chat"
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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                > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
                \n
                Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
                """
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            +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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            I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
            \n
            My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
            \n
            If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
            """
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        +body: """
          (i didn’t know [that](https://www.businessinsider.com/international-observers-say-no-voter-fraud-us-election-oas-2020-11?r=US&IR=T), it’d require more researchs than i did on the claims of each side, they’d perhaps say that the coverage was insufficient).  \n
          In my opinion we don’t have anything to lose by strengthening our electoral system, and every accusation is an occasion to improve it, unless you think that it is already failproof, i’ve seen long lists of arguments at the end of 2020, but John Oliver also made three videos on the topic of fraud prior to that, and our side didn’t hesitate to have doubts twice on the results for Bernie Sanders, whether it happened or not, i do think that cheating is a serious possibility and that such claims should be solved by better measures to please the future candidates/incumbents, instead of only relying on censorship(, [youtube](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/02/business/youtube-election-misinformation-policy/index.html), facebook, twitter, …). To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition, and we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.
          """
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        > To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition,\n
        \n
        I don’t know if you are referring to Trump, but if you are, I disagree. My position is that he attempted to overthrow the election with a flood of false claims and frivolous lawsuit, intimidating state election authorities to sway the election in his favor, and the whole Jan 6 insurrection. If you don’t agree that’s fine, but I would like to not discuss that. If anyone at this point disagrees, then there is no point in having a discussion about it because we are not working in the same reality with the same rules for logic.\n
        \n
        > we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.\n
        \n
        My argument is that placing people loyal to Trump in any process that involves handling or monitoring the election is giving them an opportunity to cheat the election in favor of Trump. Trump have convincingly demonstrated a complete lack of integrity and connection with reality. If you disagree, that’s fine as well. However, I do not want to debate that for the same reasons as above.
        """
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    +body: "Fair enough, i’ll just point out that with such enhanced surveillance it’d be even more difficult than currently(, and ideally impossible,) for people loyal(, or hostile,) to Trump to cheat the election. Thanks for the chat"
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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              +body: """
                > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
                \n
                Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
                """
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            +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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          +body: """
            I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
            \n
            My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
            \n
            If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
            """
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          (i didn’t know [that](https://www.businessinsider.com/international-observers-say-no-voter-fraud-us-election-oas-2020-11?r=US&IR=T), it’d require more researchs than i did on the claims of each side, they’d perhaps say that the coverage was insufficient).  \n
          In my opinion we don’t have anything to lose by strengthening our electoral system, and every accusation is an occasion to improve it, unless you think that it is already failproof, i’ve seen long lists of arguments at the end of 2020, but John Oliver also made three videos on the topic of fraud prior to that, and our side didn’t hesitate to have doubts twice on the results for Bernie Sanders, whether it happened or not, i do think that cheating is a serious possibility and that such claims should be solved by better measures to please the future candidates/incumbents, instead of only relying on censorship(, [youtube](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/02/business/youtube-election-misinformation-policy/index.html), facebook, twitter, …). To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition, and we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.
          """
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        > To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition,\n
        \n
        I don’t know if you are referring to Trump, but if you are, I disagree. My position is that he attempted to overthrow the election with a flood of false claims and frivolous lawsuit, intimidating state election authorities to sway the election in his favor, and the whole Jan 6 insurrection. If you don’t agree that’s fine, but I would like to not discuss that. If anyone at this point disagrees, then there is no point in having a discussion about it because we are not working in the same reality with the same rules for logic.\n
        \n
        > we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.\n
        \n
        My argument is that placing people loyal to Trump in any process that involves handling or monitoring the election is giving them an opportunity to cheat the election in favor of Trump. Trump have convincingly demonstrated a complete lack of integrity and connection with reality. If you disagree, that’s fine as well. However, I do not want to debate that for the same reasons as above.
        """
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    +body: "Fair enough, i’ll just point out that with such enhanced surveillance it’d be even more difficult than currently(, and ideally impossible,) for people loyal(, or hostile,) to Trump to cheat the election. Thanks for the chat"
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
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          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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          \n
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          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
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          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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              +body: """
                > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
                \n
                Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
                """
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            +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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          +body: """
            I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
            \n
            My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
            \n
            If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
            """
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        +body: """
          (i didn’t know [that](https://www.businessinsider.com/international-observers-say-no-voter-fraud-us-election-oas-2020-11?r=US&IR=T), it’d require more researchs than i did on the claims of each side, they’d perhaps say that the coverage was insufficient).  \n
          In my opinion we don’t have anything to lose by strengthening our electoral system, and every accusation is an occasion to improve it, unless you think that it is already failproof, i’ve seen long lists of arguments at the end of 2020, but John Oliver also made three videos on the topic of fraud prior to that, and our side didn’t hesitate to have doubts twice on the results for Bernie Sanders, whether it happened or not, i do think that cheating is a serious possibility and that such claims should be solved by better measures to please the future candidates/incumbents, instead of only relying on censorship(, [youtube](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/02/business/youtube-election-misinformation-policy/index.html), facebook, twitter, …). To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition, and we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.
          """
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      +body: """
        > To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition,\n
        \n
        I don’t know if you are referring to Trump, but if you are, I disagree. My position is that he attempted to overthrow the election with a flood of false claims and frivolous lawsuit, intimidating state election authorities to sway the election in his favor, and the whole Jan 6 insurrection. If you don’t agree that’s fine, but I would like to not discuss that. If anyone at this point disagrees, then there is no point in having a discussion about it because we are not working in the same reality with the same rules for logic.\n
        \n
        > we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.\n
        \n
        My argument is that placing people loyal to Trump in any process that involves handling or monitoring the election is giving them an opportunity to cheat the election in favor of Trump. Trump have convincingly demonstrated a complete lack of integrity and connection with reality. If you disagree, that’s fine as well. However, I do not want to debate that for the same reasons as above.
        """
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    +body: "Fair enough, i’ll just point out that with such enhanced surveillance it’d be even more difficult than currently(, and ideally impossible,) for people loyal(, or hostile,) to Trump to cheat the election. Thanks for the chat"
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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              +body: """
                > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
                \n
                Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
                """
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            +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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          +body: """
            I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
            \n
            My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
            \n
            If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
            """
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          (i didn’t know [that](https://www.businessinsider.com/international-observers-say-no-voter-fraud-us-election-oas-2020-11?r=US&IR=T), it’d require more researchs than i did on the claims of each side, they’d perhaps say that the coverage was insufficient).  \n
          In my opinion we don’t have anything to lose by strengthening our electoral system, and every accusation is an occasion to improve it, unless you think that it is already failproof, i’ve seen long lists of arguments at the end of 2020, but John Oliver also made three videos on the topic of fraud prior to that, and our side didn’t hesitate to have doubts twice on the results for Bernie Sanders, whether it happened or not, i do think that cheating is a serious possibility and that such claims should be solved by better measures to please the future candidates/incumbents, instead of only relying on censorship(, [youtube](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/02/business/youtube-election-misinformation-policy/index.html), facebook, twitter, …). To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition, and we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.
          """
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        > To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition,\n
        \n
        I don’t know if you are referring to Trump, but if you are, I disagree. My position is that he attempted to overthrow the election with a flood of false claims and frivolous lawsuit, intimidating state election authorities to sway the election in his favor, and the whole Jan 6 insurrection. If you don’t agree that’s fine, but I would like to not discuss that. If anyone at this point disagrees, then there is no point in having a discussion about it because we are not working in the same reality with the same rules for logic.\n
        \n
        > we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.\n
        \n
        My argument is that placing people loyal to Trump in any process that involves handling or monitoring the election is giving them an opportunity to cheat the election in favor of Trump. Trump have convincingly demonstrated a complete lack of integrity and connection with reality. If you disagree, that’s fine as well. However, I do not want to debate that for the same reasons as above.
        """
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    +body: "Fair enough, i’ll just point out that with such enhanced surveillance it’d be even more difficult than currently(, and ideally impossible,) for people loyal(, or hostile,) to Trump to cheat the election. Thanks for the chat"
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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                > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
                \n
                Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
                """
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            +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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            I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
            \n
            My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
            \n
            If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
            """
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        +body: """
          (i didn’t know [that](https://www.businessinsider.com/international-observers-say-no-voter-fraud-us-election-oas-2020-11?r=US&IR=T), it’d require more researchs than i did on the claims of each side, they’d perhaps say that the coverage was insufficient).  \n
          In my opinion we don’t have anything to lose by strengthening our electoral system, and every accusation is an occasion to improve it, unless you think that it is already failproof, i’ve seen long lists of arguments at the end of 2020, but John Oliver also made three videos on the topic of fraud prior to that, and our side didn’t hesitate to have doubts twice on the results for Bernie Sanders, whether it happened or not, i do think that cheating is a serious possibility and that such claims should be solved by better measures to please the future candidates/incumbents, instead of only relying on censorship(, [youtube](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/02/business/youtube-election-misinformation-policy/index.html), facebook, twitter, …). To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition, and we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.
          """
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      +body: """
        > To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition,\n
        \n
        I don’t know if you are referring to Trump, but if you are, I disagree. My position is that he attempted to overthrow the election with a flood of false claims and frivolous lawsuit, intimidating state election authorities to sway the election in his favor, and the whole Jan 6 insurrection. If you don’t agree that’s fine, but I would like to not discuss that. If anyone at this point disagrees, then there is no point in having a discussion about it because we are not working in the same reality with the same rules for logic.\n
        \n
        > we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.\n
        \n
        My argument is that placing people loyal to Trump in any process that involves handling or monitoring the election is giving them an opportunity to cheat the election in favor of Trump. Trump have convincingly demonstrated a complete lack of integrity and connection with reality. If you disagree, that’s fine as well. However, I do not want to debate that for the same reasons as above.
        """
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    +body: "Fair enough, i’ll just point out that with such enhanced surveillance it’d be even more difficult than currently(, and ideally impossible,) for people loyal(, or hostile,) to Trump to cheat the election. Thanks for the chat"
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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                +body: """
                  > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
                  \n
                  Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
                  """
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              +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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            +body: """
              I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
              \n
              My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
              \n
              If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
              """
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            (i didn’t know [that](https://www.businessinsider.com/international-observers-say-no-voter-fraud-us-election-oas-2020-11?r=US&IR=T), it’d require more researchs than i did on the claims of each side, they’d perhaps say that the coverage was insufficient).  \n
            In my opinion we don’t have anything to lose by strengthening our electoral system, and every accusation is an occasion to improve it, unless you think that it is already failproof, i’ve seen long lists of arguments at the end of 2020, but John Oliver also made three videos on the topic of fraud prior to that, and our side didn’t hesitate to have doubts twice on the results for Bernie Sanders, whether it happened or not, i do think that cheating is a serious possibility and that such claims should be solved by better measures to please the future candidates/incumbents, instead of only relying on censorship(, [youtube](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/02/business/youtube-election-misinformation-policy/index.html), facebook, twitter, …). To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition, and we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.
            """
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        +body: """
          > To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition,\n
          \n
          I don’t know if you are referring to Trump, but if you are, I disagree. My position is that he attempted to overthrow the election with a flood of false claims and frivolous lawsuit, intimidating state election authorities to sway the election in his favor, and the whole Jan 6 insurrection. If you don’t agree that’s fine, but I would like to not discuss that. If anyone at this point disagrees, then there is no point in having a discussion about it because we are not working in the same reality with the same rules for logic.\n
          \n
          > we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.\n
          \n
          My argument is that placing people loyal to Trump in any process that involves handling or monitoring the election is giving them an opportunity to cheat the election in favor of Trump. Trump have convincingly demonstrated a complete lack of integrity and connection with reality. If you disagree, that’s fine as well. However, I do not want to debate that for the same reasons as above.
          """
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      +body: "Fair enough, i’ll just point out that with such enhanced surveillance it’d be even more difficult than currently(, and ideally impossible,) for people loyal(, or hostile,) to Trump to cheat the election. Thanks for the chat"
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      > Thanks for the chat\n
      \n
      Same! 🙂
      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265}
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    +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4598
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978 …2}
      +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2400}
      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265}
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      +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4529
        +user: App\Entity\User {#3993}
        +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2400}
        +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265}
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        +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4476
          +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978 …2}
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          +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265}
          +image: null
          +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4422
            +user: App\Entity\User {#3993}
            +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2400}
            +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265}
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            +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4353
              +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978 …2}
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                +image: null
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                +body: """
                  > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
                  \n
                  Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
                  """
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                  date: 2023-12-05 21:41:14.0 +01:00
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              }
              +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4045}
              +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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                "@BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world"
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                date: 2023-12-05 23:31:56.0 +01:00
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            +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4045}
            +body: """
              I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
              \n
              My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
              \n
              If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
              """
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              date: 2023-12-06 17:35:04.0 +01:00
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          +body: """
            (i didn’t know [that](https://www.businessinsider.com/international-observers-say-no-voter-fraud-us-election-oas-2020-11?r=US&IR=T), it’d require more researchs than i did on the claims of each side, they’d perhaps say that the coverage was insufficient).  \n
            In my opinion we don’t have anything to lose by strengthening our electoral system, and every accusation is an occasion to improve it, unless you think that it is already failproof, i’ve seen long lists of arguments at the end of 2020, but John Oliver also made three videos on the topic of fraud prior to that, and our side didn’t hesitate to have doubts twice on the results for Bernie Sanders, whether it happened or not, i do think that cheating is a serious possibility and that such claims should be solved by better measures to please the future candidates/incumbents, instead of only relying on censorship(, [youtube](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/02/business/youtube-election-misinformation-policy/index.html), facebook, twitter, …). To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition, and we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.
            """
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4045}
        +body: """
          > To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition,\n
          \n
          I don’t know if you are referring to Trump, but if you are, I disagree. My position is that he attempted to overthrow the election with a flood of false claims and frivolous lawsuit, intimidating state election authorities to sway the election in his favor, and the whole Jan 6 insurrection. If you don’t agree that’s fine, but I would like to not discuss that. If anyone at this point disagrees, then there is no point in having a discussion about it because we are not working in the same reality with the same rules for logic.\n
          \n
          > we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.\n
          \n
          My argument is that placing people loyal to Trump in any process that involves handling or monitoring the election is giving them an opportunity to cheat the election in favor of Trump. Trump have convincingly demonstrated a complete lack of integrity and connection with reality. If you disagree, that’s fine as well. However, I do not want to debate that for the same reasons as above.
          """
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      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4045}
      +body: "Fair enough, i’ll just point out that with such enhanced surveillance it’d be even more difficult than currently(, and ideally impossible,) for people loyal(, or hostile,) to Trump to cheat the election. Thanks for the chat"
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4045}
    +body: """
      > Thanks for the chat\n
      \n
      Same! 🙂
      """
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}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 12.0 MiB 0.16 ms
Input props
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    -password: "$2y$13$WznkMPg5BVlYMuuEBG9NcuKTNfFuwKbF5OxfDpXhte/n4Uq/w4zZK"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4083 …}
    +apId: "BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/u/BackOnMyBS"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/u/BackOnMyBS"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
    +apPreferredUsername: "BackOnMyBS"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1729569529 {#4049
      date: 2024-10-22 05:58:49.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687491751 {#4047
      date: 2023-06-23 05:42:31.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#8563
  +user: App\Entity\User {#3993
    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3994 …}
    +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3998 …}
    +email: "BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world"
    +username: "@BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: "💣💣💣"
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729317735 {#4053
      date: 2024-10-19 08:02:15.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3997 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3989 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3987 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3985 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3982 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3980 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3977 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3975 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3973 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3970 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3968 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3966 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4109 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4105 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4094 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4085 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4074 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4111 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4108 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4071 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4098 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4101 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4099 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4097 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4096 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4089 …}
    -id: 8193
    -password: "$2y$13$WznkMPg5BVlYMuuEBG9NcuKTNfFuwKbF5OxfDpXhte/n4Uq/w4zZK"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4083 …}
    +apId: "BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/u/BackOnMyBS"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/u/BackOnMyBS"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
    +apPreferredUsername: "BackOnMyBS"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1729569529 {#4049
      date: 2024-10-22 05:58:49.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687491751 {#4047
      date: 2023-06-23 05:42:31.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +showAvatar: false
}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 12.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1701900686 {#4634
    date: 2023-12-06 23:11:26.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#8618
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1701900686 {#4634
    date: 2023-12-06 23:11:26.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 12.0 MiB 0.09 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1701900686 {#4634
    date: 2023-12-06 23:11:26.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#8672
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701900686 {#4634
    date: 2023-12-06 23:11:26.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 12.0 MiB 0.18 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#3993
    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3994 …}
    +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3998 …}
    +email: "BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world"
    +username: "@BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: "💣💣💣"
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729317735 {#4053
      date: 2024-10-19 08:02:15.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3997 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3989 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3987 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3985 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3982 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3980 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3977 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3975 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3973 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3970 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3968 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3966 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4109 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4105 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4094 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4085 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4074 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4111 …}
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    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4071 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4098 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4101 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4099 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4097 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4096 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4089 …}
    -id: 8193
    -password: "$2y$13$WznkMPg5BVlYMuuEBG9NcuKTNfFuwKbF5OxfDpXhte/n4Uq/w4zZK"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4083 …}
    +apId: "BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world"
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    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/u/BackOnMyBS"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
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    +apPreferredUsername: "BackOnMyBS"
    +apDiscoverable: true
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    +privateKey: null
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    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1729569529 {#4049
      date: 2024-10-22 05:58:49.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687491751 {#4047
      date: 2023-06-23 05:42:31.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#8726
  +width: 40
  +height: 40
  +user: App\Entity\User {#3993
    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3994 …}
    +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3998 …}
    +email: "BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world"
    +username: "@BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: "💣💣💣"
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729317735 {#4053
      date: 2024-10-19 08:02:15.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
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    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3997 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3989 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3987 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3985 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3982 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3980 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3977 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3975 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3973 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3970 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3968 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3966 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4109 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4105 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4094 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4085 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4074 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4111 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4108 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4071 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4098 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4101 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4099 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4097 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
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    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4083 …}
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      date: 2024-10-22 05:58:49.0 +02:00
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      date: 2023-06-23 05:42:31.0 +02:00
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  +asLink: true
}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 12.0 MiB 6.37 ms
Input props
[
  "subject" => App\Entity\EntryComment {#4635
    +user: App\Entity\User {#3993
      +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3994 …}
      +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3998 …}
      +email: "BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world"
      +username: "@BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
      +homepage: "front"
      +about: "💣💣💣"
      +lastActive: DateTime @1729317735 {#4053
        date: 2024-10-19 08:02:15.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +fields: null
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      +showSubscribedMagazines: true
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      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3997 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3989 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3987 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3985 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3982 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3980 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3977 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3975 …}
      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3973 …}
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      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3966 …}
      +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4109 …}
      +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4105 …}
      +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4094 …}
      +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4085 …}
      +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4074 …}
      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4111 …}
      +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4108 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4071 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4098 …}
      +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4101 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4099 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4097 …}
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      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4083 …}
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      +apFollowersUrl: null
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      +privateKey: null
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        date: 2024-10-22 05:58:49.0 +02:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
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      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687491751 {#4047
        date: 2023-06-23 05:42:31.0 +02:00
      }
    }
    +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2400
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978
        +avatar: null
        +cover: null
        +email: "sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
        +username: "@sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
        +roles: []
        +followersCount: 0
        +homepage: "front"
        +about: "There’s not much to learn by talking with people that already agree with you"
        +lastActive: DateTime @1719991224 {#1519
          date: 2024-07-03 09:20:24.0 +02:00
        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
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        +spamProtection: true
        +customCss: null
        +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
        +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1631 …}
        +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1713 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1710 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1742 …}
        +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1659 …}
        +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1747 …}
        +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1473 …}
        +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1750 …}
        +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1493 …}
        +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1778 …}
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        +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1447 …}
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        +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1427 …}
        +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1437 …}
        +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1430 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1463 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1699 …}
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        -totpSecret: null
        -totpBackupCodes: []
        -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1679 …}
        +apId: "sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
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        +privateKey: null
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        +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1725957135 {#1515
          date: 2024-09-10 10:32:15.0 +02:00
        }
        +apDeletedAt: null
        +apTimeoutAt: null
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703010578 {#1518
          date: 2023-12-19 19:29:38.0 +01:00
        }
        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
        +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
        +title: "asklemmy"
        +description: """
          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
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      +title: "Would anyone here know why we refuse to send international observers to some countries ?"
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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                +body: """
                  > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
                  \n
                  Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
                  """
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              +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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            +body: """
              I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
              \n
              My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
              \n
              If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
              """
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            (i didn’t know [that](https://www.businessinsider.com/international-observers-say-no-voter-fraud-us-election-oas-2020-11?r=US&IR=T), it’d require more researchs than i did on the claims of each side, they’d perhaps say that the coverage was insufficient).  \n
            In my opinion we don’t have anything to lose by strengthening our electoral system, and every accusation is an occasion to improve it, unless you think that it is already failproof, i’ve seen long lists of arguments at the end of 2020, but John Oliver also made three videos on the topic of fraud prior to that, and our side didn’t hesitate to have doubts twice on the results for Bernie Sanders, whether it happened or not, i do think that cheating is a serious possibility and that such claims should be solved by better measures to please the future candidates/incumbents, instead of only relying on censorship(, [youtube](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/02/business/youtube-election-misinformation-policy/index.html), facebook, twitter, …). To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition, and we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.
            """
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          > To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition,\n
          \n
          I don’t know if you are referring to Trump, but if you are, I disagree. My position is that he attempted to overthrow the election with a flood of false claims and frivolous lawsuit, intimidating state election authorities to sway the election in his favor, and the whole Jan 6 insurrection. If you don’t agree that’s fine, but I would like to not discuss that. If anyone at this point disagrees, then there is no point in having a discussion about it because we are not working in the same reality with the same rules for logic.\n
          \n
          > we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.\n
          \n
          My argument is that placing people loyal to Trump in any process that involves handling or monitoring the election is giving them an opportunity to cheat the election in favor of Trump. Trump have convincingly demonstrated a complete lack of integrity and connection with reality. If you disagree, that’s fine as well. However, I do not want to debate that for the same reasons as above.
          """
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      +body: "Fair enough, i’ll just point out that with such enhanced surveillance it’d be even more difficult than currently(, and ideally impossible,) for people loyal(, or hostile,) to Trump to cheat the election. Thanks for the chat"
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      > Thanks for the chat\n
      \n
      Same! 🙂
      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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                  > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
                  \n
                  Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
                  """
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              +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4045}
              +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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            +body: """
              I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
              \n
              My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
              \n
              If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
              """
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          +body: """
            (i didn’t know [that](https://www.businessinsider.com/international-observers-say-no-voter-fraud-us-election-oas-2020-11?r=US&IR=T), it’d require more researchs than i did on the claims of each side, they’d perhaps say that the coverage was insufficient).  \n
            In my opinion we don’t have anything to lose by strengthening our electoral system, and every accusation is an occasion to improve it, unless you think that it is already failproof, i’ve seen long lists of arguments at the end of 2020, but John Oliver also made three videos on the topic of fraud prior to that, and our side didn’t hesitate to have doubts twice on the results for Bernie Sanders, whether it happened or not, i do think that cheating is a serious possibility and that such claims should be solved by better measures to please the future candidates/incumbents, instead of only relying on censorship(, [youtube](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/02/business/youtube-election-misinformation-policy/index.html), facebook, twitter, …). To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition, and we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.
            """
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        +body: """
          > To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition,\n
          \n
          I don’t know if you are referring to Trump, but if you are, I disagree. My position is that he attempted to overthrow the election with a flood of false claims and frivolous lawsuit, intimidating state election authorities to sway the election in his favor, and the whole Jan 6 insurrection. If you don’t agree that’s fine, but I would like to not discuss that. If anyone at this point disagrees, then there is no point in having a discussion about it because we are not working in the same reality with the same rules for logic.\n
          \n
          > we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.\n
          \n
          My argument is that placing people loyal to Trump in any process that involves handling or monitoring the election is giving them an opportunity to cheat the election in favor of Trump. Trump have convincingly demonstrated a complete lack of integrity and connection with reality. If you disagree, that’s fine as well. However, I do not want to debate that for the same reasons as above.
          """
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      +body: "Fair enough, i’ll just point out that with such enhanced surveillance it’d be even more difficult than currently(, and ideally impossible,) for people loyal(, or hostile,) to Trump to cheat the election. Thanks for the chat"
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      > Thanks for the chat\n
      \n
      Same! 🙂
      """
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      +slug: "Would-anyone-here-know-why-we-refuse-to-send-international"
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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                +body: """
                  > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
                  \n
                  Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
                  """
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              +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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            +body: """
              I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
              \n
              My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
              \n
              If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
              """
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            (i didn’t know [that](https://www.businessinsider.com/international-observers-say-no-voter-fraud-us-election-oas-2020-11?r=US&IR=T), it’d require more researchs than i did on the claims of each side, they’d perhaps say that the coverage was insufficient).  \n
            In my opinion we don’t have anything to lose by strengthening our electoral system, and every accusation is an occasion to improve it, unless you think that it is already failproof, i’ve seen long lists of arguments at the end of 2020, but John Oliver also made three videos on the topic of fraud prior to that, and our side didn’t hesitate to have doubts twice on the results for Bernie Sanders, whether it happened or not, i do think that cheating is a serious possibility and that such claims should be solved by better measures to please the future candidates/incumbents, instead of only relying on censorship(, [youtube](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/02/business/youtube-election-misinformation-policy/index.html), facebook, twitter, …). To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition, and we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.
            """
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          > To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition,\n
          \n
          I don’t know if you are referring to Trump, but if you are, I disagree. My position is that he attempted to overthrow the election with a flood of false claims and frivolous lawsuit, intimidating state election authorities to sway the election in his favor, and the whole Jan 6 insurrection. If you don’t agree that’s fine, but I would like to not discuss that. If anyone at this point disagrees, then there is no point in having a discussion about it because we are not working in the same reality with the same rules for logic.\n
          \n
          > we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.\n
          \n
          My argument is that placing people loyal to Trump in any process that involves handling or monitoring the election is giving them an opportunity to cheat the election in favor of Trump. Trump have convincingly demonstrated a complete lack of integrity and connection with reality. If you disagree, that’s fine as well. However, I do not want to debate that for the same reasons as above.
          """
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      +body: "Fair enough, i’ll just point out that with such enhanced surveillance it’d be even more difficult than currently(, and ideally impossible,) for people loyal(, or hostile,) to Trump to cheat the election. Thanks for the chat"
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      > Thanks for the chat\n
      \n
      Same! 🙂
      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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                  > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
                  \n
                  Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
                  """
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              +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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            +body: """
              I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
              \n
              My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
              \n
              If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
              """
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          +body: """
            (i didn’t know [that](https://www.businessinsider.com/international-observers-say-no-voter-fraud-us-election-oas-2020-11?r=US&IR=T), it’d require more researchs than i did on the claims of each side, they’d perhaps say that the coverage was insufficient).  \n
            In my opinion we don’t have anything to lose by strengthening our electoral system, and every accusation is an occasion to improve it, unless you think that it is already failproof, i’ve seen long lists of arguments at the end of 2020, but John Oliver also made three videos on the topic of fraud prior to that, and our side didn’t hesitate to have doubts twice on the results for Bernie Sanders, whether it happened or not, i do think that cheating is a serious possibility and that such claims should be solved by better measures to please the future candidates/incumbents, instead of only relying on censorship(, [youtube](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/02/business/youtube-election-misinformation-policy/index.html), facebook, twitter, …). To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition, and we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.
            """
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        +body: """
          > To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition,\n
          \n
          I don’t know if you are referring to Trump, but if you are, I disagree. My position is that he attempted to overthrow the election with a flood of false claims and frivolous lawsuit, intimidating state election authorities to sway the election in his favor, and the whole Jan 6 insurrection. If you don’t agree that’s fine, but I would like to not discuss that. If anyone at this point disagrees, then there is no point in having a discussion about it because we are not working in the same reality with the same rules for logic.\n
          \n
          > we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.\n
          \n
          My argument is that placing people loyal to Trump in any process that involves handling or monitoring the election is giving them an opportunity to cheat the election in favor of Trump. Trump have convincingly demonstrated a complete lack of integrity and connection with reality. If you disagree, that’s fine as well. However, I do not want to debate that for the same reasons as above.
          """
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      +body: "Fair enough, i’ll just point out that with such enhanced surveillance it’d be even more difficult than currently(, and ideally impossible,) for people loyal(, or hostile,) to Trump to cheat the election. Thanks for the chat"
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      > Thanks for the chat\n
      \n
      Same! 🙂
      """
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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                +body: """
                  > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
                  \n
                  Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
                  """
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              +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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            +body: """
              I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
              \n
              My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
              \n
              If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
              """
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            (i didn’t know [that](https://www.businessinsider.com/international-observers-say-no-voter-fraud-us-election-oas-2020-11?r=US&IR=T), it’d require more researchs than i did on the claims of each side, they’d perhaps say that the coverage was insufficient).  \n
            In my opinion we don’t have anything to lose by strengthening our electoral system, and every accusation is an occasion to improve it, unless you think that it is already failproof, i’ve seen long lists of arguments at the end of 2020, but John Oliver also made three videos on the topic of fraud prior to that, and our side didn’t hesitate to have doubts twice on the results for Bernie Sanders, whether it happened or not, i do think that cheating is a serious possibility and that such claims should be solved by better measures to please the future candidates/incumbents, instead of only relying on censorship(, [youtube](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/02/business/youtube-election-misinformation-policy/index.html), facebook, twitter, …). To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition, and we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.
            """
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          > To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition,\n
          \n
          I don’t know if you are referring to Trump, but if you are, I disagree. My position is that he attempted to overthrow the election with a flood of false claims and frivolous lawsuit, intimidating state election authorities to sway the election in his favor, and the whole Jan 6 insurrection. If you don’t agree that’s fine, but I would like to not discuss that. If anyone at this point disagrees, then there is no point in having a discussion about it because we are not working in the same reality with the same rules for logic.\n
          \n
          > we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.\n
          \n
          My argument is that placing people loyal to Trump in any process that involves handling or monitoring the election is giving them an opportunity to cheat the election in favor of Trump. Trump have convincingly demonstrated a complete lack of integrity and connection with reality. If you disagree, that’s fine as well. However, I do not want to debate that for the same reasons as above.
          """
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      +body: "Fair enough, i’ll just point out that with such enhanced surveillance it’d be even more difficult than currently(, and ideally impossible,) for people loyal(, or hostile,) to Trump to cheat the election. Thanks for the chat"
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      > Thanks for the chat\n
      \n
      Same! 🙂
      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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                +body: """
                  > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
                  \n
                  Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
                  """
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                  date: 2023-12-05 21:41:14.0 +01:00
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              +body: "If he’s re-elected then perhaps that international observers with an absence of electronic voting could be approved by both sides and prevent such doubts from being formulated again. Observers may be considered humiliating for a great power but could perhaps be generalised to every representative republic, if only in order to prevent such excuses ?"
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            +body: """
              I hate the implication that there are two sides. While I agree that US politics has broken into two teams, I think the ideal situation would be that there is only one team (the country as a whole), and that the voting system would not need observers from the candidates’ parties to ensure that no one each cheating. Instead, every single one of us should be expected to be vigilant and protect democracy as a fundamental virtue of our society.\n
              \n
              My personal belief is that having someone from the Trump party is basically having someone with increased access to cheat. They are not trying to enforce democracy. They are trying to dismantle it so that they could stay in power. Trump doesn’t believe the election was a fraud based on objective information and rational logic. He believes it because he is severely mentally ill and needs the delusion to avoid a deep sense of shame and despair. As such, there is nothing anyone could say for him to accept that the election is valid.\n
              \n
              If we were going to accept that Trump will not be punished for his crimes nor go away, then we need to find an avenue for him to be able to come up with a delusion that maintains that he “won”. Not that he won the election per say, but that he “won the battle between him and Joe Biden” and “is better than him”. Again, ideally, we wouldn’t want to enable a narcissistic personality, but if we were going to, then we would have to find a way to do so and maintain democracy at the same time. Having observers will not achieve this because his personality holds that he is better, so any facts that refute this will be dismissed.
              """
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          +body: """
            (i didn’t know [that](https://www.businessinsider.com/international-observers-say-no-voter-fraud-us-election-oas-2020-11?r=US&IR=T), it’d require more researchs than i did on the claims of each side, they’d perhaps say that the coverage was insufficient).  \n
            In my opinion we don’t have anything to lose by strengthening our electoral system, and every accusation is an occasion to improve it, unless you think that it is already failproof, i’ve seen long lists of arguments at the end of 2020, but John Oliver also made three videos on the topic of fraud prior to that, and our side didn’t hesitate to have doubts twice on the results for Bernie Sanders, whether it happened or not, i do think that cheating is a serious possibility and that such claims should be solved by better measures to please the future candidates/incumbents, instead of only relying on censorship(, [youtube](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/02/business/youtube-election-misinformation-policy/index.html), facebook, twitter, …). To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition, and we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.
            """
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        +body: """
          > To sum up, he did commit to a peaceful transition,\n
          \n
          I don’t know if you are referring to Trump, but if you are, I disagree. My position is that he attempted to overthrow the election with a flood of false claims and frivolous lawsuit, intimidating state election authorities to sway the election in his favor, and the whole Jan 6 insurrection. If you don’t agree that’s fine, but I would like to not discuss that. If anyone at this point disagrees, then there is no point in having a discussion about it because we are not working in the same reality with the same rules for logic.\n
          \n
          > we don’t have much to lose by implementing an even stronger surveillance of the procedure for the next elections.\n
          \n
          My argument is that placing people loyal to Trump in any process that involves handling or monitoring the election is giving them an opportunity to cheat the election in favor of Trump. Trump have convincingly demonstrated a complete lack of integrity and connection with reality. If you disagree, that’s fine as well. However, I do not want to debate that for the same reasons as above.
          """
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      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4045}
      +body: "Fair enough, i’ll just point out that with such enhanced surveillance it’d be even more difficult than currently(, and ideally impossible,) for people loyal(, or hostile,) to Trump to cheat the election. Thanks for the chat"
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      > Thanks for the chat\n
      \n
      Same! 🙂
      """
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entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 12.0 MiB 24.19 ms
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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        > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
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        Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
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          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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        > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
        \n
        Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
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    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1721666823 {#9302
      date: 2024-07-22 18:47:03.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687524996 {#9304
      date: 2023-06-23 14:56:36.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#9265
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#4369
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "MaggiWuerze@feddit.de"
    +username: "@MaggiWuerze@feddit.de"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1721512189 {#9305
      date: 2024-07-20 23:49:49.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9310 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9313 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9315 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9317 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9319 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9321 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9323 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9325 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9327 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9329 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9331 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9333 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9335 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9337 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9339 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9341 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9343 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9345 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9347 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9349 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9351 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9353 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9355 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9357 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9359 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9361 …}
    -id: 9094
    -password: "$2y$13$.hrQkdM7hZ9cAs2qEtjwp.KsS5zaZJgedBmpQBL2Ekze9Q0WdWh2W"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9363 …}
    +apId: "MaggiWuerze@feddit.de"
    +apProfileId: "https://feddit.de/u/MaggiWuerze"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://feddit.de/u/MaggiWuerze"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.de/inbox"
    +apDomain: "feddit.de"
    +apPreferredUsername: "MaggiWuerze"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1721666823 {#9302
      date: 2024-07-22 18:47:03.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687524996 {#9304
      date: 2023-06-23 14:56:36.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +showAvatar: false
}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 12.0 MiB 0.16 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1701878686 {#4367
    date: 2023-12-06 17:04:46.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#9383
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1701878686 {#4367
    date: 2023-12-06 17:04:46.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 12.0 MiB 0.09 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1701878686 {#4367
    date: 2023-12-06 17:04:46.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#9437
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701878686 {#4367
    date: 2023-12-06 17:04:46.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 12.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#4369
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "MaggiWuerze@feddit.de"
    +username: "@MaggiWuerze@feddit.de"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1721512189 {#9305
      date: 2024-07-20 23:49:49.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9310 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9313 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9315 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9317 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9319 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9321 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9323 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9325 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9327 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9329 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9331 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9333 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9335 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9337 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9339 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9341 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9343 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9345 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9347 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9349 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9351 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9353 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9355 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9357 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9359 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9361 …}
    -id: 9094
    -password: "$2y$13$.hrQkdM7hZ9cAs2qEtjwp.KsS5zaZJgedBmpQBL2Ekze9Q0WdWh2W"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9363 …}
    +apId: "MaggiWuerze@feddit.de"
    +apProfileId: "https://feddit.de/u/MaggiWuerze"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://feddit.de/u/MaggiWuerze"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.de/inbox"
    +apDomain: "feddit.de"
    +apPreferredUsername: "MaggiWuerze"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1721666823 {#9302
      date: 2024-07-22 18:47:03.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687524996 {#9304
      date: 2023-06-23 14:56:36.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#9491
  +width: 40
  +height: 40
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#4369
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "MaggiWuerze@feddit.de"
    +username: "@MaggiWuerze@feddit.de"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1721512189 {#9305
      date: 2024-07-20 23:49:49.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
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    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9310 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9313 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9315 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9317 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9319 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9321 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9323 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9325 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9327 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9329 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9331 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9333 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9335 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9337 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9339 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9341 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9343 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9345 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9347 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9349 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9351 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9353 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9355 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9357 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9359 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9361 …}
    -id: 9094
    -password: "$2y$13$.hrQkdM7hZ9cAs2qEtjwp.KsS5zaZJgedBmpQBL2Ekze9Q0WdWh2W"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9363 …}
    +apId: "MaggiWuerze@feddit.de"
    +apProfileId: "https://feddit.de/u/MaggiWuerze"
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    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.de/inbox"
    +apDomain: "feddit.de"
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    +apDiscoverable: true
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    +privateKey: null
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    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1721666823 {#9302
      date: 2024-07-22 18:47:03.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687524996 {#9304
      date: 2023-06-23 14:56:36.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +asLink: true
}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 12.0 MiB 0.73 ms
Input props
[
  "subject" => App\Entity\EntryComment {#4368
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#4369
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "MaggiWuerze@feddit.de"
      +username: "@MaggiWuerze@feddit.de"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
      +homepage: "front"
      +about: null
      +lastActive: DateTime @1721512189 {#9305
        date: 2024-07-20 23:49:49.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +fields: null
      +oauthGithubId: null
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      +oauthFacebookId: null
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      +hideAdult: true
      +showSubscribedUsers: true
      +showSubscribedMagazines: true
      +showSubscribedDomains: true
      +preferredLanguages: []
      +featuredMagazines: null
      +showProfileSubscriptions: true
      +showProfileFollowings: true
      +markNewComments: false
      +notifyOnNewEntry: false
      +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
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      +notifyOnNewPost: false
      +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
      +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
      +addMentionsEntries: false
      +addMentionsPosts: true
      +isBanned: false
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      +isDeleted: false
      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9310 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9313 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9315 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9317 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9319 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9321 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9323 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9325 …}
      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9327 …}
      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9329 …}
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      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9333 …}
      +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9335 …}
      +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9337 …}
      +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9339 …}
      +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9341 …}
      +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9343 …}
      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9345 …}
      +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9347 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9349 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9351 …}
      +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9353 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9355 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9357 …}
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      +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9361 …}
      -id: 9094
      -password: "$2y$13$.hrQkdM7hZ9cAs2qEtjwp.KsS5zaZJgedBmpQBL2Ekze9Q0WdWh2W"
      -totpSecret: null
      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9363 …}
      +apId: "MaggiWuerze@feddit.de"
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      +apInboxUrl: "https://feddit.de/inbox"
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      +privateKey: null
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      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1721666823 {#9302
        date: 2024-07-22 18:47:03.0 +02:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
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      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687524996 {#9304
        date: 2023-06-23 14:56:36.0 +02:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2400
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978
        +avatar: null
        +cover: null
        +email: "sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
        +username: "@sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
        +roles: []
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        +homepage: "front"
        +about: "There’s not much to learn by talking with people that already agree with you"
        +lastActive: DateTime @1719991224 {#1519
          date: 2024-07-03 09:20:24.0 +02:00
        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
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        +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
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        +spamProtection: true
        +customCss: null
        +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
        +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1631 …}
        +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1713 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1710 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1742 …}
        +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1659 …}
        +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1747 …}
        +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1473 …}
        +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1750 …}
        +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1493 …}
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        +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1450 …}
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        +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1427 …}
        +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1437 …}
        +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1430 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1463 …}
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        +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1690 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1696 …}
        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1694 …}
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        -id: 83255
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        -totpSecret: null
        -totpBackupCodes: []
        -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1679 …}
        +apId: "sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
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        +apPublicUrl: "https://lemm.ee/u/sousmerde_retardatr"
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        +privateKey: null
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        +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1725957135 {#1515
          date: 2024-09-10 10:32:15.0 +02:00
        }
        +apDeletedAt: null
        +apTimeoutAt: null
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703010578 {#1518
          date: 2023-12-19 19:29:38.0 +01:00
        }
        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
        +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
        +title: "asklemmy"
        +description: """
          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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        > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
        \n
        Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
        """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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          Partnered Communities:\n
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          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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        > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
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          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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        > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
        \n
        Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
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          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
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          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
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          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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        > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
        \n
        Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
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        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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        > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
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        Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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        > We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections\n
        \n
        Imagine the audacity of the US to say they legitimized an election when one of their own parties, previous president, and losing candidate can’t legitimize the past election and is already refusing to legitimize the next one.
        """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
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          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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          \n
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          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
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        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
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        +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
        +title: "asklemmy"
        +description: """
          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#10141
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vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 12.0 MiB 0.37 ms
Input props
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         …2
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      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
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        +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
        +title: "asklemmy"
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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      +slug: "Would-anyone-here-know-why-we-refuse-to-send-international"
      +title: "Would anyone here know why we refuse to send international observers to some countries ?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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        +title: "asklemmy"
        +description: """
          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
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          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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      +slug: "Would-anyone-here-know-why-we-refuse-to-send-international"
      +title: "Would anyone here know why we refuse to send international observers to some countries ?"
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      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 12.0 MiB 0.64 ms
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
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          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
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          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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          Partnered Communities:\n
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          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
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        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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    +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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      +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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          +body: """
            You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
            \n
            Russia is a dictatorship.\n
            \n
            They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
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        +body: """
          I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
          \n
          Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
          \n
          Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
          \n
          Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
          \n
          We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
          \n
          We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
          \n
          Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
          """
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      +body: "Oh no, a Russ bot, how unsatisfying."
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      +body: """
        Yeah, i know, i’m paid a lot\n
        \n
        But don’t you find it interesting to challenge our preconceptions ? To learn how to defend our beliefs ?\n
        \n
        I think i could almost defend all of our declared enemies if you’re uneasy with Russia, and criticize almost all of our allies. In the end i believe that we(sterners) are the one launching hostilities, and that a world peace is desirable&possible.\n
        \n
        But if you don’t mind i’d like to try convincing someone that our point of view is erroneous, even if i won’t insist if you don’t feel like talking about that.\n
        \n
        Do you know why we consider that some states are illegitimate “regimes” ? Do they deserve it for human rights or are they just annoying because they’re opposing our hegemonic expansion/uniformisation(, first anti-communist, now anti-islamist, then whatever else survived the colonization) ?  \n
        It doesn’t seem that we’ll be able to play the policemen of the world for long, yet inequalities between countries aren’t being reduced, since they’re increasing then perhaps that our control could go on for centuries ?\n
        \n
        (And on your argument about legitimacy it may be more honest to talk about what precedes the votes rather than the votes themselves if the latter were counted correctly, no ?)
        """
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      +body: """
        Oh, interesting. Is OP actually a bot?\n
        \n
        I assumed it was a Russian user spreading misinformation. Maybe the weak grasp on English is an AI thing instead of non-native speaker thing in this case. It got me.
        """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
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          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
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          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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      +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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    +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
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          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
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          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
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          ---\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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          \n
          ---\n
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          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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      +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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    +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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    +homepage: "front"
    +about: "There’s not much to learn by talking with people that already agree with you"
    +lastActive: DateTime @1719991224 {#1519
      date: 2024-07-03 09:20:24.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1631 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1713 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1710 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1742 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1659 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1747 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1473 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1750 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1493 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1778 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1627 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1755 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1421 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1447 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1450 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1462 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1427 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1437 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1430 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1463 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1699 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1690 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1696 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1694 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1743 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1676 …}
    -id: 83255
    -password: "$2y$13$ZZzyPcHzEpm9cPLReoRR8up2XdbOOnjqqvtRYtbNsyNUGTRCnNrLe"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1679 …}
    +apId: "sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemm.ee/u/sousmerde_retardatr"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemm.ee/u/sousmerde_retardatr"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemm.ee/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemm.ee"
    +apPreferredUsername: "sousmerde_retardatr"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1725957135 {#1515
      date: 2024-09-10 10:32:15.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703010578 {#1518
      date: 2023-12-19 19:29:38.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#10612
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
    +username: "@sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: "There’s not much to learn by talking with people that already agree with you"
    +lastActive: DateTime @1719991224 {#1519
      date: 2024-07-03 09:20:24.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1631 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1713 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1710 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1742 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1659 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1747 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1473 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1750 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1493 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1778 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1627 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1755 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1421 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1447 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1450 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1462 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1427 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1437 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1430 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1463 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1699 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1690 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1696 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1694 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1743 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1676 …}
    -id: 83255
    -password: "$2y$13$ZZzyPcHzEpm9cPLReoRR8up2XdbOOnjqqvtRYtbNsyNUGTRCnNrLe"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1679 …}
    +apId: "sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemm.ee/u/sousmerde_retardatr"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemm.ee/u/sousmerde_retardatr"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemm.ee/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemm.ee"
    +apPreferredUsername: "sousmerde_retardatr"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1725957135 {#1515
      date: 2024-09-10 10:32:15.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703010578 {#1518
      date: 2023-12-19 19:29:38.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +showAvatar: false
}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 12.0 MiB 0.12 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1701811297 {#4337
    date: 2023-12-05 22:21:37.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#10667
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1701811297 {#4337
    date: 2023-12-05 22:21:37.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 12.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1701811297 {#4337
    date: 2023-12-05 22:21:37.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1703095145 {#4336
    date: 2023-12-20 18:59:05.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#10721
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701811297 {#4337
    date: 2023-12-05 22:21:37.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703095145 {#4336
    date: 2023-12-20 18:59:05.0 +01:00
  }
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 12.0 MiB 0.17 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
    +username: "@sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: "There’s not much to learn by talking with people that already agree with you"
    +lastActive: DateTime @1719991224 {#1519
      date: 2024-07-03 09:20:24.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1631 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1713 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1710 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1742 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1659 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1747 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1473 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1750 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1493 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1778 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1627 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1755 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1421 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1447 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1450 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1462 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1427 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1437 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1430 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1463 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1699 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1690 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1696 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1694 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1743 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1676 …}
    -id: 83255
    -password: "$2y$13$ZZzyPcHzEpm9cPLReoRR8up2XdbOOnjqqvtRYtbNsyNUGTRCnNrLe"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1679 …}
    +apId: "sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
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    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemm.ee/u/sousmerde_retardatr"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemm.ee/inbox"
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    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1725957135 {#1515
      date: 2024-09-10 10:32:15.0 +02:00
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    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703010578 {#1518
      date: 2023-12-19 19:29:38.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#10775
  +width: 40
  +height: 40
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
    +username: "@sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: "There’s not much to learn by talking with people that already agree with you"
    +lastActive: DateTime @1719991224 {#1519
      date: 2024-07-03 09:20:24.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1631 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1713 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1710 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1742 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1659 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1747 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1473 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1750 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1493 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1778 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1627 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1755 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1421 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1447 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1450 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1462 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1427 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1437 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1430 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1463 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1699 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1690 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1696 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1694 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1743 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1679 …}
    +apId: "sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
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    +apFollowersUrl: null
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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      date: 2023-12-19 19:29:38.0 +01:00
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    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +asLink: true
}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 12.0 MiB 0.41 ms
Input props
[
  "subject" => App\Entity\EntryComment {#4338
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
      +username: "@sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
      +homepage: "front"
      +about: "There’s not much to learn by talking with people that already agree with you"
      +lastActive: DateTime @1719991224 {#1519
        date: 2024-07-03 09:20:24.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +fields: null
      +oauthGithubId: null
      +oauthGoogleId: null
      +oauthFacebookId: null
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      +showProfileFollowings: true
      +markNewComments: false
      +notifyOnNewEntry: false
      +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
      +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
      +notifyOnNewPost: false
      +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
      +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
      +addMentionsEntries: false
      +addMentionsPosts: true
      +isBanned: false
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      +isDeleted: false
      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1631 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1713 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1710 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1742 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1659 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1747 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1473 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1750 …}
      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1493 …}
      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1778 …}
      +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1627 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1755 …}
      +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1421 …}
      +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1447 …}
      +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1450 …}
      +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1462 …}
      +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1427 …}
      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1437 …}
      +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1430 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1463 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1699 …}
      +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1690 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1696 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1694 …}
      +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1743 …}
      +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1676 …}
      -id: 83255
      -password: "$2y$13$ZZzyPcHzEpm9cPLReoRR8up2XdbOOnjqqvtRYtbNsyNUGTRCnNrLe"
      -totpSecret: null
      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1679 …}
      +apId: "sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
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      +apFollowersUrl: null
      +apInboxUrl: "https://lemm.ee/inbox"
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      +apDiscoverable: true
      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
      +privateKey: null
      +publicKey: null
      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1725957135 {#1515
        date: 2024-09-10 10:32:15.0 +02:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
      +apTimeoutAt: null
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703010578 {#1518
        date: 2023-12-19 19:29:38.0 +01:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2400
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978 …2}
      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
        +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
        +title: "asklemmy"
        +description: """
          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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      +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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    +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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Component
App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent {#10844
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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    +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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    +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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          ---\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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    +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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          \n
          ---\n
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          \n
          ---\n
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          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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    +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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      +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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    +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 14.0 MiB 155.24 ms
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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        +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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      +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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      You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
      \n
      Russia is a dictatorship.\n
      \n
      They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
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          \n
          ---\n
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          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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      +slug: "Would-anyone-here-know-why-we-refuse-to-send-international"
      +title: "Would anyone here know why we refuse to send international observers to some countries ?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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      +ip: null
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      +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1688 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1966 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1965 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1368 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2426 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2439 …}
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        date: 2023-12-20 15:11:13.0 +01:00
      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701803459 {#2402
        date: 2023-12-05 20:10:59.0 +01:00
      }
    }
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265}
    +image: null
    +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4338
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978 …2}
      +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2400}
      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265}
      +image: null
      +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080
        +user: App\Entity\User {#4064}
        +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2400}
        +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265}
        +image: null
        +parent: null
        +root: null
        +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4081 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4072 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4075 …}
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          date: 2023-12-05 21:29:55.0 +01:00
        }
      }
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
      +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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      +ip: null
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      +mentions: [
        "@sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
        "@Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4339 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4341 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4343 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4345 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4347 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4349 …}
      -id: 200241
      -bodyTs: "'accus':55 'agreement':76 'almost':88 'bit':97 'candid':86 'chang':107 'confirm':33 'control':22 'could':42,51,105 'count':5 'countri':59 'day':110 'debat':44 'difficult':63 'even':30 'fals':29 'first':26 'franc':71 'get':47 'got':13 'hundr':78 'imposs':89 'interest':48 'internet':104 'known':92 'launch':65 'least':95 'legaci':102 'mainstream':85,101 'mayor':80 'media':24,103 'need':74 'new':67 'one':27,41,109 'opposit':17 'parti':69 'perhap':106 'polit':68 're':113 'reserv':82 'rid':14 'second':38 'sinc':49,72 'support':35,99 'survey':32 'third':40 'throw':52 'vote':3 'way':9 'western':31 'without':93 'wrong':8 'yet':45,117"
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      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701811297 {#4337
        date: 2023-12-05 22:21:37.0 +01:00
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    }
    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
    +body: """
      You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
      \n
      Russia is a dictatorship.\n
      \n
      They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
      """
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    +isAdult: false
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      "@Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4408 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4410 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4412 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4414 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4416 …}
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    -id: 200280
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  }
  +showMagazineName: false
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  +level: 3
  +canSeeTrash: false
  +dateAsUrl: false
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -authorizationChecker: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\AuthorizationChecker {#931 …}
}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 12.0 MiB 0.16 ms
Input props
[
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    +avatar: null
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    +email: "Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
    +username: "@Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
    +roles: []
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    +lastActive: DateTime @1728971600 {#4084
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
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    +hideAdult: true
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    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
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    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
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    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
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    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4063 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4061 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4059 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4057 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4055 …}
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    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4117 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4119 …}
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    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4135 …}
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    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4139 …}
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    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4157 …}
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    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.mindoki.com/inbox"
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    +apPreferredUsername: "Valmond"
    +apDiscoverable: true
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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      date: 2023-10-05 11:17:46.0 +02:00
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  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#11241
  +user: App\Entity\User {#4064
    +avatar: null
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4063 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4061 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4059 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4057 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4055 …}
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    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4139 …}
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}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 12.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
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    date: 2023-12-05 22:36:02.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#11296
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1701812162 {#4406
    date: 2023-12-05 22:36:02.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 12.0 MiB 0.09 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1701812162 {#4406
    date: 2023-12-05 22:36:02.0 +01:00
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  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#11350
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701812162 {#4406
    date: 2023-12-05 22:36:02.0 +01:00
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  +editedAt: null
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 12.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
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    +avatar: null
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    +email: "Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4063 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4061 …}
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    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4057 …}
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    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4137 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4139 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4141 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4143 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
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    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4157 …}
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      date: 2024-10-15 17:41:43.0 +02:00
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  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#11404
  +width: 40
  +height: 40
  +user: App\Entity\User {#4064
    +avatar: null
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    +email: "Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
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vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 12.0 MiB 0.50 ms
Input props
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        +title: "asklemmy"
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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        +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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      +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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      You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
      \n
      Russia is a dictatorship.\n
      \n
      They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
      """
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        +title: "asklemmy"
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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        +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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      +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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      You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
      \n
      Russia is a dictatorship.\n
      \n
      They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
      """
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          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
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          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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        +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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      +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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      You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
      \n
      Russia is a dictatorship.\n
      \n
      They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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        +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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      +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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      You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
      \n
      Russia is a dictatorship.\n
      \n
      They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
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          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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          \n
          ---\n
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          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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        +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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      +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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      You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
      \n
      Russia is a dictatorship.\n
      \n
      They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
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          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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          ---\n
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          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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        +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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      +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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      You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
      \n
      Russia is a dictatorship.\n
      \n
      They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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          \n
          ---\n
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          \n
          ---\n
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          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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          +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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        +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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      +body: """
        You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
        \n
        Russia is a dictatorship.\n
        \n
        They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
        """
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    +body: """
      I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
      \n
      Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
      \n
      Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
      \n
      Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
      \n
      We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
      \n
      We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
      \n
      Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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          \n
          ---\n
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          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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      +title: "Would anyone here know why we refuse to send international observers to some countries ?"
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      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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          +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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        +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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      +body: """
        You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
        \n
        Russia is a dictatorship.\n
        \n
        They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
        """
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    +body: """
      I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
      \n
      Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
      \n
      Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
      \n
      Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
      \n
      We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
      \n
      We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
      \n
      Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
      """
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App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#11884
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    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1631 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1713 …}
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    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1742 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1659 …}
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date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 12.0 MiB 0.17 ms
Input props
[
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#11939
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}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 12.0 MiB 0.15 ms
Input props
[
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Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#11993
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    date: 2023-12-20 19:49:53.0 +01:00
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}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 12.0 MiB 0.15 ms
Input props
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Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#12047
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vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 12.0 MiB 0.51 ms
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[
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    +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2400
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      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
        +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
        +title: "asklemmy"
        +description: """
          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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          date: 2023-10-13 08:03:47.0 +02:00
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      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1889 …}
      +slug: "Would-anyone-here-know-why-we-refuse-to-send-international"
      +title: "Would anyone here know why we refuse to send international observers to some countries ?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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          +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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        +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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      +body: """
        You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
        \n
        Russia is a dictatorship.\n
        \n
        They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
        """
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    +body: """
      I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
      \n
      Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
      \n
      Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
      \n
      Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
      \n
      We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
      \n
      We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
      \n
      Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
      """
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App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent {#12140
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        +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
        +title: "asklemmy"
        +description: """
          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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          +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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        +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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      +body: """
        You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
        \n
        Russia is a dictatorship.\n
        \n
        They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
        """
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    +body: """
      I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
      \n
      Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
      \n
      Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
      \n
      Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
      \n
      We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
      \n
      We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
      \n
      Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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          +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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        +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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      +body: """
        You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
        \n
        Russia is a dictatorship.\n
        \n
        They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
        """
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    +body: """
      I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
      \n
      Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
      \n
      Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
      \n
      Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
      \n
      We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
      \n
      We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
      \n
      Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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          +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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        +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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        You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
        \n
        Russia is a dictatorship.\n
        \n
        They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
        """
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    +body: """
      I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
      \n
      Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
      \n
      Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
      \n
      Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
      \n
      We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
      \n
      We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
      \n
      Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
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          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
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          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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          +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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        +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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        You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
        \n
        Russia is a dictatorship.\n
        \n
        They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
        """
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      I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
      \n
      Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
      \n
      Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
      \n
      Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
      \n
      We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
      \n
      We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
      \n
      Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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          \n
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          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
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          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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      +slug: "Would-anyone-here-know-why-we-refuse-to-send-international"
      +title: "Would anyone here know why we refuse to send international observers to some countries ?"
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      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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          +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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        +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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        You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
        \n
        Russia is a dictatorship.\n
        \n
        They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
        """
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    +body: """
      I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
      \n
      Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
      \n
      Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
      \n
      Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
      \n
      We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
      \n
      We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
      \n
      Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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          Partnered Communities:\n
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          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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          """
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      +slug: "Would-anyone-here-know-why-we-refuse-to-send-international"
      +title: "Would anyone here know why we refuse to send international observers to some countries ?"
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      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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            +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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          +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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            "@Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
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        +body: """
          You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
          \n
          Russia is a dictatorship.\n
          \n
          They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
          """
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      +body: """
        I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
        \n
        Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
        \n
        Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
        \n
        Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
        \n
        We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
        \n
        We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
        \n
        Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
        """
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    +body: "Oh no, a Russ bot, how unsatisfying."
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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          Partnered Communities:\n
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          """
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      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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            +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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          +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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          You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
          \n
          Russia is a dictatorship.\n
          \n
          They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
          """
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        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
          "@Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4408 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4410 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4412 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4414 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4416 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4418 …}
        -id: 200280
        -bodyTs: "'allow':91 'almost':42 'alway':43 'believ':86 'better':47,70 'bring':102 'chang':3 'check':96 'countri':9 'democraci':51 'democrat':8,34 'dictatorship':57,106 'divers':14 'error':78 'even':69 'find':76 'flaw':12 'franc':16 'guess':37 'histori':41 'investig':84 'least':53 'legitimaci':60,103 'lot':27 'outcom':35 'parti':30 'peopl':67,73,95 'question':5 're':2,50 'reason':15 'round':25 'russia':54,88 'send':66,72,94 'small':29,81 'sometim':38 'system':26 'thing':82,99 'two':24 'undermin':32 'us':92 'want':59 'west':65 'won':89 'would':17,31"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.mindoki.com/comment/948013"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701812162 {#4406
          date: 2023-12-05 22:36:02.0 +01:00
        }
      }
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
      +body: """
        I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
        \n
        Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
        \n
        Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
        \n
        Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
        \n
        We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
        \n
        We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
        \n
        Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 1
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701812827 {#4446
        date: 2023-12-05 22:47:07.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
        "@Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4439 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4437 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4441 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4452 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4454 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4456 …}
      -id: 200317
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      +ranking: 0
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      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/7022283"
      +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703098193 {#4449
        date: 2023-12-20 19:49:53.0 +01:00
      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701812827 {#4445
        date: 2023-12-05 22:47:07.0 +01:00
      }
    }
    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
    +body: "Oh no, a Russ bot, how unsatisfying."
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
    +favouriteCount: 6
    +score: 0
    +lastActive: DateTime @1701813350 {#4500
      date: 2023-12-05 22:55:50.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +tags: null
    +mentions: [
      "@sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
      "@Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4496 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4492 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4490 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4505 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4507 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4509 …}
    -id: 200346
    -bodyTs: "'bot':5 'oh':1 'russ':4 'unsatisfi':7"
    +ranking: 0
    +commentCount: 0
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    +downVotes: 0
    +visibility: "visible             "
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    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701813350 {#4503
      date: 2023-12-05 22:55:50.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  +showMagazineName: false
  +showEntryTitle: false
  +showNested: true
  +level: 5
  +canSeeTrash: false
  +dateAsUrl: false
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -authorizationChecker: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\AuthorizationChecker {#931 …}
}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 12.0 MiB 0.15 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#4064
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
    +username: "@Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1728971600 {#4084
      date: 2024-10-15 07:53:20.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
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    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
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    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
    +addMentionsEntries: false
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    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4063 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4061 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4059 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4057 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4055 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
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    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4157 …}
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    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.mindoki.com/inbox"
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    +apPreferredUsername: "Valmond"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
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      date: 2024-10-15 17:41:43.0 +02:00
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1696497466 {#4082
      date: 2023-10-05 11:17:46.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#12537
  +user: App\Entity\User {#4064
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
    +username: "@Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1728971600 {#4084
      date: 2024-10-15 07:53:20.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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    +addMentionsEntries: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4063 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4061 …}
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    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4057 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4055 …}
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    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4119 …}
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    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4139 …}
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    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4143 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4157 …}
    +apId: "Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
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    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.mindoki.com/u/Valmond"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.mindoki.com/inbox"
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    +apPreferredUsername: "Valmond"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
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    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1729006903 {#4077
      date: 2024-10-15 17:41:43.0 +02:00
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1696497466 {#4082
      date: 2023-10-05 11:17:46.0 +02:00
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  }
  +showAvatar: false
}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 12.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1701813350 {#4503
    date: 2023-12-05 22:55:50.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#12592
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1701813350 {#4503
    date: 2023-12-05 22:55:50.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 12.0 MiB 0.09 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1701813350 {#4503
    date: 2023-12-05 22:55:50.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#12646
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701813350 {#4503
    date: 2023-12-05 22:55:50.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 12.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#4064
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
    +username: "@Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1728971600 {#4084
      date: 2024-10-15 07:53:20.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
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    +oauthGoogleId: null
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    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
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    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4063 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4061 …}
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    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4057 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4157 …}
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    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1729006903 {#4077
      date: 2024-10-15 17:41:43.0 +02:00
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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      date: 2023-10-05 11:17:46.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#12700
  +width: 40
  +height: 40
  +user: App\Entity\User {#4064
    +avatar: null
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    +email: "Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
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    +lastActive: DateTime @1728971600 {#4084
      date: 2024-10-15 07:53:20.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4057 …}
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vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 12.0 MiB 0.61 ms
Input props
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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            +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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          +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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            "@Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
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        +body: """
          You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
          \n
          Russia is a dictatorship.\n
          \n
          They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
          """
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      +body: """
        I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
        \n
        Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
        \n
        Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
        \n
        Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
        \n
        We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
        \n
        We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
        \n
        Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
        """
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
    +body: "Oh no, a Russ bot, how unsatisfying."
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         …2
      }
      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
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        +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
        +title: "asklemmy"
        +description: """
          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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      +slug: "Would-anyone-here-know-why-we-refuse-to-send-international"
      +title: "Would anyone here know why we refuse to send international observers to some countries ?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701803459 {#2402
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    }
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265}
    +image: null
    +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4442
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978 …2}
      +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2400}
      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265}
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        +user: App\Entity\User {#4064}
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            +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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          +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
          +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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            "@Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
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          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4339 …}
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
        +body: """
          You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
          \n
          Russia is a dictatorship.\n
          \n
          They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
          """
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          "@Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
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        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4408 …}
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      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
      +body: """
        I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
        \n
        Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
        \n
        Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
        \n
        Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
        \n
        We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
        \n
        We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
        \n
        Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
        """
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
    +body: "Oh no, a Russ bot, how unsatisfying."
    +lang: "en"
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  +formDest: "entry_comment"
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  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
}
boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 12.0 MiB 5.61 ms
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        +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
        +title: "asklemmy"
        +description: """
          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
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      +slug: "Would-anyone-here-know-why-we-refuse-to-send-international"
      +title: "Would anyone here know why we refuse to send international observers to some countries ?"
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      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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            +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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          +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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        +body: """
          You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
          \n
          Russia is a dictatorship.\n
          \n
          They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
          """
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      +body: """
        I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
        \n
        Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
        \n
        Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
        \n
        Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
        \n
        We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
        \n
        We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
        \n
        Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
        """
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    +body: "Oh no, a Russ bot, how unsatisfying."
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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      +title: "Would anyone here know why we refuse to send international observers to some countries ?"
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      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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            +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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          +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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        +body: """
          You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
          \n
          Russia is a dictatorship.\n
          \n
          They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
          """
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      +body: """
        I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
        \n
        Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
        \n
        Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
        \n
        Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
        \n
        We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
        \n
        We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
        \n
        Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
        """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
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          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
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          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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            +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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          +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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          You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
          \n
          Russia is a dictatorship.\n
          \n
          They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
          """
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      +body: """
        I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
        \n
        Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
        \n
        Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
        \n
        Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
        \n
        We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
        \n
        We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
        \n
        Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
        """
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
    +body: "Oh no, a Russ bot, how unsatisfying."
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        +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
        +title: "asklemmy"
        +description: """
          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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      +slug: "Would-anyone-here-know-why-we-refuse-to-send-international"
      +title: "Would anyone here know why we refuse to send international observers to some countries ?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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            +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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          +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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          You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
          \n
          Russia is a dictatorship.\n
          \n
          They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
          """
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        I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
        \n
        Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
        \n
        Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
        \n
        Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
        \n
        We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
        \n
        We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
        \n
        Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
        """
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    +body: "Oh no, a Russ bot, how unsatisfying."
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
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          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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      +title: "Would anyone here know why we refuse to send international observers to some countries ?"
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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              +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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            +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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          +body: """
            You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
            \n
            Russia is a dictatorship.\n
            \n
            They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
            """
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          I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
          \n
          Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
          \n
          Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
          \n
          Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
          \n
          We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
          \n
          We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
          \n
          Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
          """
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      +body: "Oh no, a Russ bot, how unsatisfying."
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      Yeah, i know, i’m paid a lot\n
      \n
      But don’t you find it interesting to challenge our preconceptions ? To learn how to defend our beliefs ?\n
      \n
      I think i could almost defend all of our declared enemies if you’re uneasy with Russia, and criticize almost all of our allies. In the end i believe that we(sterners) are the one launching hostilities, and that a world peace is desirable&possible.\n
      \n
      But if you don’t mind i’d like to try convincing someone that our point of view is erroneous, even if i won’t insist if you don’t feel like talking about that.\n
      \n
      Do you know why we consider that some states are illegitimate “regimes” ? Do they deserve it for human rights or are they just annoying because they’re opposing our hegemonic expansion/uniformisation(, first anti-communist, now anti-islamist, then whatever else survived the colonization) ?  \n
      It doesn’t seem that we’ll be able to play the policemen of the world for long, yet inequalities between countries aren’t being reduced, since they’re increasing then perhaps that our control could go on for centuries ?\n
      \n
      (And on your argument about legitimacy it may be more honest to talk about what precedes the votes rather than the votes themselves if the latter were counted correctly, no ?)
      """
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
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        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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              +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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            +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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              date: 2023-12-20 18:59:05.0 +01:00
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              date: 2023-12-05 22:21:37.0 +01:00
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          +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
          +body: """
            You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
            \n
            Russia is a dictatorship.\n
            \n
            They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
            """
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            date: 2023-12-05 22:36:02.0 +01:00
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        }
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
        +body: """
          I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
          \n
          Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
          \n
          Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
          \n
          Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
          \n
          We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
          \n
          We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
          \n
          Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
          """
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701812827 {#4445
          date: 2023-12-05 22:47:07.0 +01:00
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      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
      +body: "Oh no, a Russ bot, how unsatisfying."
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
    +body: """
      Yeah, i know, i’m paid a lot\n
      \n
      But don’t you find it interesting to challenge our preconceptions ? To learn how to defend our beliefs ?\n
      \n
      I think i could almost defend all of our declared enemies if you’re uneasy with Russia, and criticize almost all of our allies. In the end i believe that we(sterners) are the one launching hostilities, and that a world peace is desirable&possible.\n
      \n
      But if you don’t mind i’d like to try convincing someone that our point of view is erroneous, even if i won’t insist if you don’t feel like talking about that.\n
      \n
      Do you know why we consider that some states are illegitimate “regimes” ? Do they deserve it for human rights or are they just annoying because they’re opposing our hegemonic expansion/uniformisation(, first anti-communist, now anti-islamist, then whatever else survived the colonization) ?  \n
      It doesn’t seem that we’ll be able to play the policemen of the world for long, yet inequalities between countries aren’t being reduced, since they’re increasing then perhaps that our control could go on for centuries ?\n
      \n
      (And on your argument about legitimacy it may be more honest to talk about what precedes the votes rather than the votes themselves if the latter were counted correctly, no ?)
      """
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user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 14.0 MiB 0.17 ms
Input props
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     …2
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Component
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     …2
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date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 14.0 MiB 0.15 ms
Input props
[
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#13221
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}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 14.0 MiB 0.16 ms
Input props
[
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[]
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App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#13275
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user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 14.0 MiB 0.15 ms
Input props
[
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
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          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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      +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2400}
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              +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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                date: 2023-12-05 21:29:55.0 +01:00
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            }
            +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
            +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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              "@Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
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              date: 2023-12-20 18:59:05.0 +01:00
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          +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
          +body: """
            You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
            \n
            Russia is a dictatorship.\n
            \n
            They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
            """
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        +body: """
          I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
          \n
          Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
          \n
          Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
          \n
          Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
          \n
          We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
          \n
          We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
          \n
          Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
          """
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      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
      +body: "Oh no, a Russ bot, how unsatisfying."
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
    +body: """
      Yeah, i know, i’m paid a lot\n
      \n
      But don’t you find it interesting to challenge our preconceptions ? To learn how to defend our beliefs ?\n
      \n
      I think i could almost defend all of our declared enemies if you’re uneasy with Russia, and criticize almost all of our allies. In the end i believe that we(sterners) are the one launching hostilities, and that a world peace is desirable&possible.\n
      \n
      But if you don’t mind i’d like to try convincing someone that our point of view is erroneous, even if i won’t insist if you don’t feel like talking about that.\n
      \n
      Do you know why we consider that some states are illegitimate “regimes” ? Do they deserve it for human rights or are they just annoying because they’re opposing our hegemonic expansion/uniformisation(, first anti-communist, now anti-islamist, then whatever else survived the colonization) ?  \n
      It doesn’t seem that we’ll be able to play the policemen of the world for long, yet inequalities between countries aren’t being reduced, since they’re increasing then perhaps that our control could go on for centuries ?\n
      \n
      (And on your argument about legitimacy it may be more honest to talk about what precedes the votes rather than the votes themselves if the latter were counted correctly, no ?)
      """
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent {#13422
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      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2400
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        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
        +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
        +title: "asklemmy"
        +description: """
          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
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      +title: "Would anyone here know why we refuse to send international observers to some countries ?"
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      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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              +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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            +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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          +body: """
            You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
            \n
            Russia is a dictatorship.\n
            \n
            They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
            """
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          I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
          \n
          Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
          \n
          Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
          \n
          Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
          \n
          We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
          \n
          We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
          \n
          Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
          """
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      +body: "Oh no, a Russ bot, how unsatisfying."
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      Yeah, i know, i’m paid a lot\n
      \n
      But don’t you find it interesting to challenge our preconceptions ? To learn how to defend our beliefs ?\n
      \n
      I think i could almost defend all of our declared enemies if you’re uneasy with Russia, and criticize almost all of our allies. In the end i believe that we(sterners) are the one launching hostilities, and that a world peace is desirable&possible.\n
      \n
      But if you don’t mind i’d like to try convincing someone that our point of view is erroneous, even if i won’t insist if you don’t feel like talking about that.\n
      \n
      Do you know why we consider that some states are illegitimate “regimes” ? Do they deserve it for human rights or are they just annoying because they’re opposing our hegemonic expansion/uniformisation(, first anti-communist, now anti-islamist, then whatever else survived the colonization) ?  \n
      It doesn’t seem that we’ll be able to play the policemen of the world for long, yet inequalities between countries aren’t being reduced, since they’re increasing then perhaps that our control could go on for centuries ?\n
      \n
      (And on your argument about legitimacy it may be more honest to talk about what precedes the votes rather than the votes themselves if the latter were counted correctly, no ?)
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
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            +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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          +body: """
            You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
            \n
            Russia is a dictatorship.\n
            \n
            They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
            """
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        +body: """
          I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
          \n
          Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
          \n
          Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
          \n
          Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
          \n
          We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
          \n
          We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
          \n
          Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
          """
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      +body: "Oh no, a Russ bot, how unsatisfying."
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    +body: """
      Yeah, i know, i’m paid a lot\n
      \n
      But don’t you find it interesting to challenge our preconceptions ? To learn how to defend our beliefs ?\n
      \n
      I think i could almost defend all of our declared enemies if you’re uneasy with Russia, and criticize almost all of our allies. In the end i believe that we(sterners) are the one launching hostilities, and that a world peace is desirable&possible.\n
      \n
      But if you don’t mind i’d like to try convincing someone that our point of view is erroneous, even if i won’t insist if you don’t feel like talking about that.\n
      \n
      Do you know why we consider that some states are illegitimate “regimes” ? Do they deserve it for human rights or are they just annoying because they’re opposing our hegemonic expansion/uniformisation(, first anti-communist, now anti-islamist, then whatever else survived the colonization) ?  \n
      It doesn’t seem that we’ll be able to play the policemen of the world for long, yet inequalities between countries aren’t being reduced, since they’re increasing then perhaps that our control could go on for centuries ?\n
      \n
      (And on your argument about legitimacy it may be more honest to talk about what precedes the votes rather than the votes themselves if the latter were counted correctly, no ?)
      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
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          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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      +title: "Would anyone here know why we refuse to send international observers to some countries ?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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              +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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            +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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          +body: """
            You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
            \n
            Russia is a dictatorship.\n
            \n
            They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
            """
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        +body: """
          I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
          \n
          Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
          \n
          Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
          \n
          Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
          \n
          We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
          \n
          We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
          \n
          Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
          """
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      +body: "Oh no, a Russ bot, how unsatisfying."
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    +body: """
      Yeah, i know, i’m paid a lot\n
      \n
      But don’t you find it interesting to challenge our preconceptions ? To learn how to defend our beliefs ?\n
      \n
      I think i could almost defend all of our declared enemies if you’re uneasy with Russia, and criticize almost all of our allies. In the end i believe that we(sterners) are the one launching hostilities, and that a world peace is desirable&possible.\n
      \n
      But if you don’t mind i’d like to try convincing someone that our point of view is erroneous, even if i won’t insist if you don’t feel like talking about that.\n
      \n
      Do you know why we consider that some states are illegitimate “regimes” ? Do they deserve it for human rights or are they just annoying because they’re opposing our hegemonic expansion/uniformisation(, first anti-communist, now anti-islamist, then whatever else survived the colonization) ?  \n
      It doesn’t seem that we’ll be able to play the policemen of the world for long, yet inequalities between countries aren’t being reduced, since they’re increasing then perhaps that our control could go on for centuries ?\n
      \n
      (And on your argument about legitimacy it may be more honest to talk about what precedes the votes rather than the votes themselves if the latter were counted correctly, no ?)
      """
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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              +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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            +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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          +body: """
            You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
            \n
            Russia is a dictatorship.\n
            \n
            They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
            """
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        +body: """
          I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
          \n
          Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
          \n
          Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
          \n
          Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
          \n
          We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
          \n
          We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
          \n
          Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
          """
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      +body: "Oh no, a Russ bot, how unsatisfying."
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    +body: """
      Yeah, i know, i’m paid a lot\n
      \n
      But don’t you find it interesting to challenge our preconceptions ? To learn how to defend our beliefs ?\n
      \n
      I think i could almost defend all of our declared enemies if you’re uneasy with Russia, and criticize almost all of our allies. In the end i believe that we(sterners) are the one launching hostilities, and that a world peace is desirable&possible.\n
      \n
      But if you don’t mind i’d like to try convincing someone that our point of view is erroneous, even if i won’t insist if you don’t feel like talking about that.\n
      \n
      Do you know why we consider that some states are illegitimate “regimes” ? Do they deserve it for human rights or are they just annoying because they’re opposing our hegemonic expansion/uniformisation(, first anti-communist, now anti-islamist, then whatever else survived the colonization) ?  \n
      It doesn’t seem that we’ll be able to play the policemen of the world for long, yet inequalities between countries aren’t being reduced, since they’re increasing then perhaps that our control could go on for centuries ?\n
      \n
      (And on your argument about legitimacy it may be more honest to talk about what precedes the votes rather than the votes themselves if the latter were counted correctly, no ?)
      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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              +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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            +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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          +body: """
            You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
            \n
            Russia is a dictatorship.\n
            \n
            They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
            """
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        +body: """
          I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
          \n
          Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
          \n
          Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
          \n
          Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
          \n
          We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
          \n
          We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
          \n
          Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
          """
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      +body: "Oh no, a Russ bot, how unsatisfying."
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    +body: """
      Yeah, i know, i’m paid a lot\n
      \n
      But don’t you find it interesting to challenge our preconceptions ? To learn how to defend our beliefs ?\n
      \n
      I think i could almost defend all of our declared enemies if you’re uneasy with Russia, and criticize almost all of our allies. In the end i believe that we(sterners) are the one launching hostilities, and that a world peace is desirable&possible.\n
      \n
      But if you don’t mind i’d like to try convincing someone that our point of view is erroneous, even if i won’t insist if you don’t feel like talking about that.\n
      \n
      Do you know why we consider that some states are illegitimate “regimes” ? Do they deserve it for human rights or are they just annoying because they’re opposing our hegemonic expansion/uniformisation(, first anti-communist, now anti-islamist, then whatever else survived the colonization) ?  \n
      It doesn’t seem that we’ll be able to play the policemen of the world for long, yet inequalities between countries aren’t being reduced, since they’re increasing then perhaps that our control could go on for centuries ?\n
      \n
      (And on your argument about legitimacy it may be more honest to talk about what precedes the votes rather than the votes themselves if the latter were counted correctly, no ?)
      """
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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              +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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            +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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          +body: """
            You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
            \n
            Russia is a dictatorship.\n
            \n
            They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
            """
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            "@Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
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        +body: """
          I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
          \n
          Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
          \n
          Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
          \n
          Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
          \n
          We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
          \n
          We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
          \n
          Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
          """
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      }
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
      +body: "Oh no, a Russ bot, how unsatisfying."
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
    +body: """
      Oh, interesting. Is OP actually a bot?\n
      \n
      I assumed it was a Russian user spreading misinformation. Maybe the weak grasp on English is an AI thing instead of non-native speaker thing in this case. It got me.
      """
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         …2
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        +title: "asklemmy"
        +description: """
          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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      +slug: "Would-anyone-here-know-why-we-refuse-to-send-international"
      +title: "Would anyone here know why we refuse to send international observers to some countries ?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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              +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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            +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
            +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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          +body: """
            You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
            \n
            Russia is a dictatorship.\n
            \n
            They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
            """
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        +body: """
          I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
          \n
          Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
          \n
          Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
          \n
          Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
          \n
          We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
          \n
          We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
          \n
          Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
          """
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      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
      +body: "Oh no, a Russ bot, how unsatisfying."
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
    +body: """
      Oh, interesting. Is OP actually a bot?\n
      \n
      I assumed it was a Russian user spreading misinformation. Maybe the weak grasp on English is an AI thing instead of non-native speaker thing in this case. It got me.
      """
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user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 14.0 MiB 0.39 ms
Input props
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    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4304 …}
    +apId: "SHamblingSHapes@lemmy.one"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.one/u/SHamblingSHapes"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.one/u/SHamblingSHapes"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.one/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.one"
    +apPreferredUsername: "SHamblingSHapes"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1726330091 {#4236
      date: 2024-09-14 18:08:11.0 +02:00
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    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687546304 {#4237
      date: 2023-06-23 20:51:44.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#13830
  +user: App\Entity\User {#4251
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "SHamblingSHapes@lemmy.one"
    +username: "@SHamblingSHapes@lemmy.one"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1705561928 {#4235
      date: 2024-01-18 08:12:08.0 +01:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4252 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4254 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4256 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4258 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4260 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4262 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4264 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4266 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4268 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4270 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4272 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4274 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4276 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4278 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4280 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4282 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4284 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4286 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4288 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4290 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4292 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4294 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4296 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4298 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4300 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4302 …}
    -id: 9506
    -password: "$2y$13$5NPQMhNes4lHa45pg.nJLucrn1MgWQtM/mVAmGDHLyj0umb25j7ey"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4304 …}
    +apId: "SHamblingSHapes@lemmy.one"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.one/u/SHamblingSHapes"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.one/u/SHamblingSHapes"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.one/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.one"
    +apPreferredUsername: "SHamblingSHapes"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1726330091 {#4236
      date: 2024-09-14 18:08:11.0 +02:00
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687546304 {#4237
      date: 2023-06-23 20:51:44.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +showAvatar: false
}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 14.0 MiB 0.21 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1701831790 {#4566
    date: 2023-12-06 04:03:10.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#13885
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1701831790 {#4566
    date: 2023-12-06 04:03:10.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 14.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1701831790 {#4566
    date: 2023-12-06 04:03:10.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#13939
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701831790 {#4566
    date: 2023-12-06 04:03:10.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 14.0 MiB 0.16 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#4251
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "SHamblingSHapes@lemmy.one"
    +username: "@SHamblingSHapes@lemmy.one"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1705561928 {#4235
      date: 2024-01-18 08:12:08.0 +01:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
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    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
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    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4252 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4254 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4256 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4258 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4260 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4262 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4264 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4266 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4268 …}
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    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4272 …}
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    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4278 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4280 …}
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    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4284 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4286 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4288 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4290 …}
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    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4294 …}
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    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4298 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4300 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4304 …}
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    +privateKey: null
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      date: 2024-09-14 18:08:11.0 +02:00
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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      date: 2023-06-23 20:51:44.0 +02:00
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  }
  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#13993
  +width: 40
  +height: 40
  +user: App\Entity\User {#4251
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "SHamblingSHapes@lemmy.one"
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    +roles: []
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      date: 2024-01-18 08:12:08.0 +01:00
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
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    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
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    +featuredMagazines: null
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4252 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4254 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4256 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4258 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4260 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4262 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4264 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4266 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4268 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4270 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4272 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4274 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4276 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4278 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4280 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4282 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4284 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4286 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4288 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4290 …}
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      date: 2023-06-23 20:51:44.0 +02:00
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  }
  +asLink: true
}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 14.0 MiB 0.65 ms
Input props
[
  "subject" => App\Entity\EntryComment {#4567
    +user: App\Entity\User {#4251
      +avatar: null
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      +email: "SHamblingSHapes@lemmy.one"
      +username: "@SHamblingSHapes@lemmy.one"
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      +customCss: null
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      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4252 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4254 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4256 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4258 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4260 …}
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      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4264 …}
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      +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4278 …}
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      +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4284 …}
      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4286 …}
      +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4288 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4290 …}
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      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687546304 {#4237
        date: 2023-06-23 20:51:44.0 +02:00
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    }
    +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2400
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978
        +avatar: null
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        +about: "There’s not much to learn by talking with people that already agree with you"
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          date: 2024-07-03 09:20:24.0 +02:00
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        +markedForDeletionAt: null
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        +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1631 …}
        +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1713 …}
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        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1742 …}
        +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1659 …}
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        +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1437 …}
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          date: 2024-09-10 10:32:15.0 +02:00
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703010578 {#1518
          date: 2023-12-19 19:29:38.0 +01:00
        }
        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
        +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
        +title: "asklemmy"
        +description: """
          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
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      +title: "Would anyone here know why we refuse to send international observers to some countries ?"
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      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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              +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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            +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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          +body: """
            You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
            \n
            Russia is a dictatorship.\n
            \n
            They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
            """
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        +body: """
          I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
          \n
          Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
          \n
          Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
          \n
          Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
          \n
          We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
          \n
          We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
          \n
          Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
          """
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      +body: "Oh no, a Russ bot, how unsatisfying."
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      Oh, interesting. Is OP actually a bot?\n
      \n
      I assumed it was a Russian user spreading misinformation. Maybe the weak grasp on English is an AI thing instead of non-native speaker thing in this case. It got me.
      """
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         …2
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        +title: "asklemmy"
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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          date: 2023-10-05 11:17:46.0 +02:00
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      +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2400}
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              +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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            +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
            +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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          +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
          +body: """
            You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
            \n
            Russia is a dictatorship.\n
            \n
            They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
            """
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
        +body: """
          I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
          \n
          Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
          \n
          Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
          \n
          Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
          \n
          We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
          \n
          We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
          \n
          Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
          """
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          "@Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
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        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4439 …}
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      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
      +body: "Oh no, a Russ bot, how unsatisfying."
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
    +body: """
      Oh, interesting. Is OP actually a bot?\n
      \n
      I assumed it was a Russian user spreading misinformation. Maybe the weak grasp on English is an AI thing instead of non-native speaker thing in this case. It got me.
      """
    +lang: "en"
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  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
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boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 14.0 MiB 0.99 ms
Input props
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        +title: "asklemmy"
        +description: """
          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
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      +title: "Would anyone here know why we refuse to send international observers to some countries ?"
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      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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              +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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            +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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          +body: """
            You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
            \n
            Russia is a dictatorship.\n
            \n
            They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
            """
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        +body: """
          I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
          \n
          Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
          \n
          Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
          \n
          Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
          \n
          We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
          \n
          We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
          \n
          Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
          """
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      +body: "Oh no, a Russ bot, how unsatisfying."
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      Oh, interesting. Is OP actually a bot?\n
      \n
      I assumed it was a Russian user spreading misinformation. Maybe the weak grasp on English is an AI thing instead of non-native speaker thing in this case. It got me.
      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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          date: 2024-10-15 17:41:43.0 +02:00
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          date: 2023-10-05 11:17:46.0 +02:00
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      +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2400}
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              +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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            +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
            +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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          +body: """
            You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
            \n
            Russia is a dictatorship.\n
            \n
            They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
            """
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        +body: """
          I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
          \n
          Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
          \n
          Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
          \n
          Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
          \n
          We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
          \n
          We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
          \n
          Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
          """
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      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
      +body: "Oh no, a Russ bot, how unsatisfying."
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
    +body: """
      Oh, interesting. Is OP actually a bot?\n
      \n
      I assumed it was a Russian user spreading misinformation. Maybe the weak grasp on English is an AI thing instead of non-native speaker thing in this case. It got me.
      """
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entry_comments_nested App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentsNestedComponent 14.0 MiB 29.77 ms
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        +title: "asklemmy"
        +description: """
          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
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      +title: "Would anyone here know why we refuse to send international observers to some countries ?"
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      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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              +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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            +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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          +body: """
            You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
            \n
            Russia is a dictatorship.\n
            \n
            They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
            """
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        +body: """
          I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
          \n
          Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
          \n
          Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
          \n
          Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
          \n
          We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
          \n
          We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
          \n
          Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
          """
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      +body: "Oh no, a Russ bot, how unsatisfying."
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      Oh, interesting. Is OP actually a bot?\n
      \n
      I assumed it was a Russian user spreading misinformation. Maybe the weak grasp on English is an AI thing instead of non-native speaker thing in this case. It got me.
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        +title: "asklemmy"
        +description: """
          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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          date: 2024-10-15 17:41:43.0 +02:00
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          date: 2023-10-05 11:17:46.0 +02:00
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      }
      +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2400}
      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265}
      +image: null
      +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4442
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            +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978 …2}
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              +image: null
              +parent: null
              +root: null
              +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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              +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4081 …}
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                date: 2023-12-05 21:29:55.0 +01:00
              }
            }
            +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
            +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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              "@Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
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              date: 2023-12-20 18:59:05.0 +01:00
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              date: 2023-12-05 22:21:37.0 +01:00
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          +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
          +body: """
            You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
            \n
            Russia is a dictatorship.\n
            \n
            They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
            """
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            "@sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
            "@Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4408 …}
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            date: 2023-12-05 22:36:02.0 +01:00
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        }
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
        +body: """
          I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
          \n
          Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
          \n
          Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
          \n
          Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
          \n
          We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
          \n
          We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
          \n
          Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-05 22:47:07.0 +01:00
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          "@Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
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        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701812827 {#4445
          date: 2023-12-05 22:47:07.0 +01:00
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      }
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
      +body: "Oh no, a Russ bot, how unsatisfying."
      +lang: "en"
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    }
    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
    +body: """
      Oh, interesting. Is OP actually a bot?\n
      \n
      I assumed it was a Russian user spreading misinformation. Maybe the weak grasp on English is an AI thing instead of non-native speaker thing in this case. It got me.
      """
    +lang: "en"
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    -bodyTs: "'actual':5 'ai':25 'assum':9 'bot':7 'case':36 'english':22 'got':38 'grasp':20 'instead':27 'interest':2 'mayb':17 'misinform':16 'nativ':31 'non':30 'non-nat':29 'oh':1 'op':4 'russian':13 'speaker':32 'spread':15 'thing':26,33 'user':14 'weak':19"
    +ranking: 0
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  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -security: Symfony\Bundle\SecurityBundle\Security {#1101 …}
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
}
entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 14.0 MiB 25.78 ms
Input props
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         …2
      }
      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
        +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
        +title: "asklemmy"
        +description: """
          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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                +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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              +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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            +body: """
              You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
              \n
              Russia is a dictatorship.\n
              \n
              They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
              """
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          +body: """
            I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
            \n
            Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
            \n
            Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
            \n
            Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
            \n
            We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
            \n
            We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
            \n
            Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
            """
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      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
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        Oh, interesting. Is OP actually a bot?\n
        \n
        I assumed it was a Russian user spreading misinformation. Maybe the weak grasp on English is an AI thing instead of non-native speaker thing in this case. It got me.
        """
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
    +body: "Nah, just an astroturfer. Apparently he’s doing it for free too lol."
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         …2
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        +title: "asklemmy"
        +description: """
          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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      +url: null
      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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        +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4252 …}
        +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4254 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4256 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4258 …}
        +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4260 …}
        +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4262 …}
        +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4264 …}
        +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4266 …}
        +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4268 …}
        +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4270 …}
        +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4272 …}
        +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4274 …}
        +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4276 …}
        +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4278 …}
        +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4280 …}
        +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4282 …}
        +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4284 …}
        +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4286 …}
        +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4288 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4290 …}
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        +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4294 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4296 …}
        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4298 …}
        +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4300 …}
        +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4302 …}
        -id: 9506
        -password: "$2y$13$5NPQMhNes4lHa45pg.nJLucrn1MgWQtM/mVAmGDHLyj0umb25j7ey"
        -totpSecret: null
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        -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4304 …}
        +apId: "SHamblingSHapes@lemmy.one"
        +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.one/u/SHamblingSHapes"
        +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.one/u/SHamblingSHapes"
        +apFollowersUrl: null
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          date: 2024-09-14 18:08:11.0 +02:00
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687546304 {#4237
          date: 2023-06-23 20:51:44.0 +02:00
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      }
      +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2400}
      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265}
      +image: null
      +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4499
        +user: App\Entity\User {#4064}
        +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2400}
        +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265}
        +image: null
        +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4442
          +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978 …2}
          +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2400}
          +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265}
          +image: null
          +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4407
            +user: App\Entity\User {#4064}
            +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2400}
            +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265}
            +image: null
            +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4338
              +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978 …2}
              +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2400}
              +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265}
              +image: null
              +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080
                +user: App\Entity\User {#4064}
                +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2400}
                +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265}
                +image: null
                +parent: null
                +root: null
                +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
                +lang: "en"
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                +favouriteCount: 4
                +score: 0
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                  date: 2023-12-21 17:39:53.0 +01:00
                }
                +ip: null
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                  "@sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
                ]
                +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4081 …}
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                -id: 200090
                -bodyTs: "'check':10 'correct':18 'count':16 'credibl':29 'farc':27 'make':23 'mean':2 'next':13 'putin':14 'russia':8 'send':5 'somewhat':28 'vote':15,26 'whole':25 'would':21"
                +ranking: 0
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                +apId: "https://lemmy.mindoki.com/comment/947562"
                +editedAt: null
                +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701808195 {#4087
                  date: 2023-12-05 21:29:55.0 +01:00
                }
              }
              +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
              +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
              +lang: "en"
              +isAdult: false
              +favouriteCount: 1
              +score: 0
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                date: 2023-12-05 22:21:37.0 +01:00
              }
              +ip: null
              +tags: null
              +mentions: [
                "@sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
                "@Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
              ]
              +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4339 …}
              +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4341 …}
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              -bodyTs: "'accus':55 'agreement':76 'almost':88 'bit':97 'candid':86 'chang':107 'confirm':33 'control':22 'could':42,51,105 'count':5 'countri':59 'day':110 'debat':44 'difficult':63 'even':30 'fals':29 'first':26 'franc':71 'get':47 'got':13 'hundr':78 'imposs':89 'interest':48 'internet':104 'known':92 'launch':65 'least':95 'legaci':102 'mainstream':85,101 'mayor':80 'media':24,103 'need':74 'new':67 'one':27,41,109 'opposit':17 'parti':69 'perhap':106 'polit':68 're':113 'reserv':82 'rid':14 'second':38 'sinc':49,72 'support':35,99 'survey':32 'third':40 'throw':52 'vote':3 'way':9 'western':31 'without':93 'wrong':8 'yet':45,117"
              +ranking: 0
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              +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/7021015"
              +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703095145 {#4336
                date: 2023-12-20 18:59:05.0 +01:00
              }
              +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701811297 {#4337
                date: 2023-12-05 22:21:37.0 +01:00
              }
            }
            +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
            +body: """
              You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
              \n
              Russia is a dictatorship.\n
              \n
              They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
              """
            +lang: "en"
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              date: 2023-12-05 22:36:02.0 +01:00
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              "@sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
              "@Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
            ]
            +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4408 …}
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            +ranking: 0
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            +apId: "https://lemmy.mindoki.com/comment/948013"
            +editedAt: null
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              date: 2023-12-05 22:36:02.0 +01:00
            }
          }
          +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
          +body: """
            I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
            \n
            Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
            \n
            Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
            \n
            Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
            \n
            We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
            \n
            We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
            \n
            Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
            """
          +lang: "en"
          +isAdult: false
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            date: 2023-12-05 22:47:07.0 +01:00
          }
          +ip: null
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          +mentions: [
            "@sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
            "@Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
          ]
          +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4439 …}
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          +ranking: 0
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            date: 2023-12-20 19:49:53.0 +01:00
          }
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701812827 {#4445
            date: 2023-12-05 22:47:07.0 +01:00
          }
        }
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
        +body: "Oh no, a Russ bot, how unsatisfying."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701813350 {#4500
          date: 2023-12-05 22:55:50.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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          "@sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
          "@Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4496 …}
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        -id: 200346
        -bodyTs: "'bot':5 'oh':1 'russ':4 'unsatisfi':7"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.mindoki.com/comment/948175"
        +editedAt: null
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          date: 2023-12-05 22:55:50.0 +01:00
        }
      }
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
      +body: """
        Oh, interesting. Is OP actually a bot?\n
        \n
        I assumed it was a Russian user spreading misinformation. Maybe the weak grasp on English is an AI thing instead of non-native speaker thing in this case. It got me.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 3
      +score: 0
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        date: 2023-12-06 04:03:10.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
        "@Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4568 …}
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      -id: 201217
      -bodyTs: "'actual':5 'ai':25 'assum':9 'bot':7 'case':36 'english':22 'got':38 'grasp':20 'instead':27 'interest':2 'mayb':17 'misinform':16 'nativ':31 'non':30 'non-nat':29 'oh':1 'op':4 'russian':13 'speaker':32 'spread':15 'thing':26,33 'user':14 'weak':19"
      +ranking: 0
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      +editedAt: null
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        date: 2023-12-06 04:03:10.0 +01:00
      }
    }
    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
    +body: "Nah, just an astroturfer. Apparently he’s doing it for free too lol."
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
    +favouriteCount: 1
    +score: 0
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    +ip: null
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      "@Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
      "@SHamblingSHapes@lemmy.one"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4620 …}
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    -id: 201754
    -bodyTs: "'appar':5 'astroturf':4 'free':11 'lol':13 'nah':1"
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  }
  +showMagazineName: false
  +showEntryTitle: false
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  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
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}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 14.0 MiB 0.16 ms
Input props
[
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    +avatar: null
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    +email: "Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
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    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4063 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4061 …}
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    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4127 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4129 …}
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    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4133 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4135 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4137 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4139 …}
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    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4143 …}
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    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4155 …}
    -id: 50205
    -password: "$2y$13$z1bmp/2j3NvbalwitexgyufLciD8M0meXgB58q2fYqCscBGsjVKaK"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4157 …}
    +apId: "Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
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    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.mindoki.com/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.mindoki.com"
    +apPreferredUsername: "Valmond"
    +apDiscoverable: true
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    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1729006903 {#4077
      date: 2024-10-15 17:41:43.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
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  }
  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#14463
  +user: App\Entity\User {#4064
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
    +username: "@Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
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      date: 2024-10-15 07:53:20.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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    +oauthGithubId: null
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    +showProfileFollowings: true
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    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4063 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4061 …}
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    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4057 …}
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1696497466 {#4082
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  +showAvatar: false
}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 14.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
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    date: 2023-12-06 11:35:38.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#14518
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1701858938 {#4613
    date: 2023-12-06 11:35:38.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 14.0 MiB 0.12 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1701858938 {#4613
    date: 2023-12-06 11:35:38.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#14572
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701858938 {#4613
    date: 2023-12-06 11:35:38.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 14.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
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    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
    +username: "@Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
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    +about: null
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      date: 2024-10-15 07:53:20.0 +02:00
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4063 …}
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    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4057 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4055 …}
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  }
  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#14626
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vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 14.0 MiB 0.68 ms
Input props
[
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         …2
      }
      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
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          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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                +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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              +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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            +body: """
              You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
              \n
              Russia is a dictatorship.\n
              \n
              They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
              """
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          +body: """
            I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
            \n
            Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
            \n
            Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
            \n
            Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
            \n
            We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
            \n
            We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
            \n
            Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
            """
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        +body: "Oh no, a Russ bot, how unsatisfying."
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        Oh, interesting. Is OP actually a bot?\n
        \n
        I assumed it was a Russian user spreading misinformation. Maybe the weak grasp on English is an AI thing instead of non-native speaker thing in this case. It got me.
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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          date: 2023-06-23 20:51:44.0 +02:00
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                +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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              +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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            +body: """
              You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
              \n
              Russia is a dictatorship.\n
              \n
              They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
              """
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          +body: """
            I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
            \n
            Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
            \n
            Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
            \n
            Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
            \n
            We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
            \n
            We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
            \n
            Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
            """
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
        +body: "Oh no, a Russ bot, how unsatisfying."
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      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
      +body: """
        Oh, interesting. Is OP actually a bot?\n
        \n
        I assumed it was a Russian user spreading misinformation. Maybe the weak grasp on English is an AI thing instead of non-native speaker thing in this case. It got me.
        """
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
    +body: "Nah, just an astroturfer. Apparently he’s doing it for free too lol."
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boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 14.0 MiB 0.93 ms
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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                +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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              +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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            +body: """
              You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
              \n
              Russia is a dictatorship.\n
              \n
              They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
              """
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          +body: """
            I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
            \n
            Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
            \n
            Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
            \n
            Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
            \n
            We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
            \n
            We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
            \n
            Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
            """
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        +body: "Oh no, a Russ bot, how unsatisfying."
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      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
      +body: """
        Oh, interesting. Is OP actually a bot?\n
        \n
        I assumed it was a Russian user spreading misinformation. Maybe the weak grasp on English is an AI thing instead of non-native speaker thing in this case. It got me.
        """
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    }
    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
    +body: "Nah, just an astroturfer. Apparently he’s doing it for free too lol."
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         …2
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      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
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        +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
        +title: "asklemmy"
        +description: """
          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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      +slug: "Would-anyone-here-know-why-we-refuse-to-send-international"
      +title: "Would anyone here know why we refuse to send international observers to some countries ?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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          date: 2023-06-23 20:51:44.0 +02:00
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                +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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                  date: 2023-12-21 17:39:53.0 +01:00
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                  date: 2023-12-05 21:29:55.0 +01:00
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              +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
              +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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            +body: """
              You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
              \n
              Russia is a dictatorship.\n
              \n
              They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
              """
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          +body: """
            I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
            \n
            Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
            \n
            Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
            \n
            Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
            \n
            We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
            \n
            We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
            \n
            Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
            """
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
        +body: "Oh no, a Russ bot, how unsatisfying."
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      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
      +body: """
        Oh, interesting. Is OP actually a bot?\n
        \n
        I assumed it was a Russian user spreading misinformation. Maybe the weak grasp on English is an AI thing instead of non-native speaker thing in this case. It got me.
        """
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
    +body: "Nah, just an astroturfer. Apparently he’s doing it for free too lol."
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entry_comments_nested App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentsNestedComponent 14.0 MiB 5.28 ms
Input props
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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                +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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              +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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            +body: """
              You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
              \n
              Russia is a dictatorship.\n
              \n
              They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
              """
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              "@Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
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            +editedAt: null
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              date: 2023-12-05 22:36:02.0 +01:00
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          +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
          +body: """
            I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
            \n
            Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
            \n
            Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
            \n
            Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
            \n
            We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
            \n
            We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
            \n
            Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
            """
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            "@Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com"
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            date: 2023-12-20 19:49:53.0 +01:00
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            date: 2023-12-05 22:47:07.0 +01:00
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        }
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
        +body: "Oh no, a Russ bot, how unsatisfying."
        +lang: "en"
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        ]
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          date: 2023-12-05 22:55:50.0 +01:00
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      }
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
      +body: """
        Oh, interesting. Is OP actually a bot?\n
        \n
        I assumed it was a Russian user spreading misinformation. Maybe the weak grasp on English is an AI thing instead of non-native speaker thing in this case. It got me.
        """
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      -id: 201217
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        date: 2023-12-06 04:03:10.0 +01:00
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    }
    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4080}
    +body: "Nah, just an astroturfer. Apparently he’s doing it for free too lol."
    +lang: "en"
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         …2
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      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
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        +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
        +title: "asklemmy"
        +description: """
          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1889 …}
      +slug: "Would-anyone-here-know-why-we-refuse-to-send-international"
      +title: "Would anyone here know why we refuse to send international observers to some countries ?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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                +body: "I mean if you send them to Russia to check that the next Putin vote count is “correct”, then it would just make the whole voting farce somewhat credible."
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              +body: "Because the votes are counted in a wrong way, or because he got rid of the opposition, or because he’s controlling the medias ? The first one is false, even western surveys confirmed his support, but the second and third one could be debated, yet it gets interesting since we could throw the same accusations at our own countries(, it’s very difficult to launch a new political party in France since you need an agreement from hundreds of mayors who reserve them to mainstream candidates, and almost impossible to be known without at least a bit of support from mainstream(legacy) medias, Internet could perhaps change that one day but we’re not (t)here yet)."
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            +body: """
              You’re changing the question here, all democratic countries has their flaws for diverse reasons (France would be that as there is a two round system, lots of small parties would undermine the democratic outcome, I guess. Sometimes it’s history, almost always it can be better. But we’re democracies at least).\n
              \n
              Russia is a dictatorship.\n
              \n
              They want **Legitimacy** and if we, the west, sends people, and even better, we send people and they find no errors (in the small thing they investigate because believe me, Russia won’t allow us to send people checking out other things), that will bring Legitimacy to the dictatorship.
              """
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          +body: """
            I’m glad to talk with someone “normal” like you, it’s actually becoming quite rare on Lemmy :)\n
            \n
            Would you mind giving me a single thing that Russia has and we have not ? Media control ? Political prisoners ? Excessive laws ? Unsatisfactory election process ? What else ?\n
            \n
            Keep in mind that the recent arrests were done in times of war, not only under a ukrainian pressure but quite a lot of other stuff like sanctions, covert actions, a blown-up gazoduc, …, Ukraine did hundreds of times worse and it’s not always justified, but surely you can easily find other proofs of Russia’s dictatorship to make me see the light ? I would unironically feel indebted to you if you took the time to correct me from my misconceptions, and we could take another country if you prefer.\n
            \n
            Our media are controlled by capitalists(, except public&alternative medias).\n
            \n
            We have a long list of political prisoners, it doesn’t stop at J.Assange, we’re also wiretapped among other measures to prevent any revolution.\n
            \n
            We have laws against extremists or domestic terrorists, also against illegal speeches, more and more on the Internet. Could be worse, isn’t going to be better apparently.\n
            \n
            Please tell me what you’re thinking about that makes them a dictatorship and not us.
            """
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        +body: "Oh no, a Russ bot, how unsatisfying."
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        Oh, interesting. Is OP actually a bot?\n
        \n
        I assumed it was a Russian user spreading misinformation. Maybe the weak grasp on English is an AI thing instead of non-native speaker thing in this case. It got me.
        """
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    +body: "Nah, just an astroturfer. Apparently he’s doing it for free too lol."
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entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 14.0 MiB 44.76 ms
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      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
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        +title: "asklemmy"
        +description: """
          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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      +slug: "Would-anyone-here-know-why-we-refuse-to-send-international"
      +title: "Would anyone here know why we refuse to send international observers to some countries ?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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      Do you think America is some bastion of fairness and truth? Most of the countries that are stricken with corruption and poverty are that way because the USA meddled with their shit.\n
      \n
      The USA should stay the fuck in its own country, and stop influencing the weak countries of the world.
      """
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Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent {#15123
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        +title: "asklemmy"
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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      Do you think America is some bastion of fairness and truth? Most of the countries that are stricken with corruption and poverty are that way because the USA meddled with their shit.\n
      \n
      The USA should stay the fuck in its own country, and stop influencing the weak countries of the world.
      """
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  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#15223
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1701808058 {#4161
    date: 2023-12-05 21:27:38.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 14.0 MiB 0.19 ms
Input props
[
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    date: 2023-12-05 21:27:38.0 +01:00
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  "editedAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1703089021 {#4160
    date: 2023-12-20 17:17:01.0 +01:00
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#4939
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    date: 2023-12-05 21:27:38.0 +01:00
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  +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703089021 {#4160
    date: 2023-12-20 17:17:01.0 +01:00
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}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 14.0 MiB 0.16 ms
Input props
[
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  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#7524
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vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 14.0 MiB 0.46 ms
Input props
[
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    +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2400
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        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
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        +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
        +title: "asklemmy"
        +description: """
          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
        +rules: null
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          date: 2023-10-13 08:03:47.0 +02:00
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      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1889 …}
      +slug: "Would-anyone-here-know-why-we-refuse-to-send-international"
      +title: "Would anyone here know why we refuse to send international observers to some countries ?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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      \n
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      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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      Do you think America is some bastion of fairness and truth? Most of the countries that are stricken with corruption and poverty are that way because the USA meddled with their shit.\n
      \n
      The USA should stay the fuck in its own country, and stop influencing the weak countries of the world.
      """
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boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 14.0 MiB 10.76 ms
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
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          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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      Do you think America is some bastion of fairness and truth? Most of the countries that are stricken with corruption and poverty are that way because the USA meddled with their shit.\n
      \n
      The USA should stay the fuck in its own country, and stop influencing the weak countries of the world.
      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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      Do you think America is some bastion of fairness and truth? Most of the countries that are stricken with corruption and poverty are that way because the USA meddled with their shit.\n
      \n
      The USA should stay the fuck in its own country, and stop influencing the weak countries of the world.
      """
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          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
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          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
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          \n
          ---\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
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        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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          Partnered Communities:\n
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          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
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        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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      “We” meaning the US?\n
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      Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
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    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4252 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4254 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4256 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4258 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4260 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4262 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4264 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4266 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4268 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4270 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4272 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4274 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4276 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4278 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4280 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4282 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4284 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4286 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4288 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4290 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4292 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4294 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4296 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4298 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4300 …}
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    -id: 9506
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4304 …}
    +apId: "SHamblingSHapes@lemmy.one"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.one/u/SHamblingSHapes"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.one/u/SHamblingSHapes"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.one/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.one"
    +apPreferredUsername: "SHamblingSHapes"
    +apDiscoverable: true
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    +privateKey: null
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    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1726330091 {#4236
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    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687546304 {#4237
      date: 2023-06-23 20:51:44.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#15345
  +user: App\Entity\User {#4251
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "SHamblingSHapes@lemmy.one"
    +username: "@SHamblingSHapes@lemmy.one"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1705561928 {#4235
      date: 2024-01-18 08:12:08.0 +01:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4252 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4254 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4256 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4258 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4260 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4262 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4264 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4266 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4268 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4270 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4272 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4274 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4276 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4278 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4280 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4282 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4284 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4286 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4288 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4290 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4292 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4294 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4296 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4298 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4300 …}
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    -id: 9506
    -password: "$2y$13$5NPQMhNes4lHa45pg.nJLucrn1MgWQtM/mVAmGDHLyj0umb25j7ey"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4304 …}
    +apId: "SHamblingSHapes@lemmy.one"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.one/u/SHamblingSHapes"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.one/u/SHamblingSHapes"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.one/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.one"
    +apPreferredUsername: "SHamblingSHapes"
    +apDiscoverable: true
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    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1726330091 {#4236
      date: 2024-09-14 18:08:11.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687546304 {#4237
      date: 2023-06-23 20:51:44.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +showAvatar: false
}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 16.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1701807889 {#4234
    date: 2023-12-05 21:24:49.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#15400
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1701807889 {#4234
    date: 2023-12-05 21:24:49.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 16.0 MiB 0.09 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1701807889 {#4234
    date: 2023-12-05 21:24:49.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#15454
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701807889 {#4234
    date: 2023-12-05 21:24:49.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 16.0 MiB 0.15 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#4251
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "SHamblingSHapes@lemmy.one"
    +username: "@SHamblingSHapes@lemmy.one"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1705561928 {#4235
      date: 2024-01-18 08:12:08.0 +01:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4252 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4254 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4256 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4258 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4260 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4262 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4264 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4266 …}
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    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4272 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4274 …}
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    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4278 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4280 …}
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    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4284 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4286 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4288 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4290 …}
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    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4294 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4304 …}
    +apId: "SHamblingSHapes@lemmy.one"
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    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.one/inbox"
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    +apDiscoverable: true
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    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
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      date: 2024-09-14 18:08:11.0 +02:00
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687546304 {#4237
      date: 2023-06-23 20:51:44.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#15508
  +width: 40
  +height: 40
  +user: App\Entity\User {#4251
    +avatar: null
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    +email: "SHamblingSHapes@lemmy.one"
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    +roles: []
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    +about: null
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      date: 2024-01-18 08:12:08.0 +01:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
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    +hideAdult: true
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    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
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    +featuredMagazines: null
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    +markNewComments: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4252 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4254 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4256 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4258 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4260 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4262 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4264 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4266 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4268 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4270 …}
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    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4274 …}
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    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4278 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4280 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4282 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4284 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4286 …}
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    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4290 …}
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    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4296 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4298 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
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    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4304 …}
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      date: 2023-06-23 20:51:44.0 +02:00
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}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 16.0 MiB 0.41 ms
Input props
[
  "subject" => App\Entity\EntryComment {#4238
    +user: App\Entity\User {#4251
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
      +email: "SHamblingSHapes@lemmy.one"
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        date: 2024-01-18 08:12:08.0 +01:00
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      +markedForDeletionAt: null
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      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4252 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4254 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4256 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4258 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4260 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4262 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4264 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4266 …}
      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4268 …}
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      +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4272 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4274 …}
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      +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4278 …}
      +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4280 …}
      +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4282 …}
      +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4284 …}
      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4286 …}
      +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4288 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4290 …}
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      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4296 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4298 …}
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      -totpSecret: null
      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4304 …}
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      +apFollowersUrl: null
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      +apDomain: "lemmy.one"
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      +apDiscoverable: true
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      +privateKey: null
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      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1726330091 {#4236
        date: 2024-09-14 18:08:11.0 +02:00
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      +apDeletedAt: null
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      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687546304 {#4237
        date: 2023-06-23 20:51:44.0 +02:00
      }
    }
    +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2400
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978
        +avatar: null
        +cover: null
        +email: "sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
        +username: "@sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
        +roles: []
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        +homepage: "front"
        +about: "There’s not much to learn by talking with people that already agree with you"
        +lastActive: DateTime @1719991224 {#1519
          date: 2024-07-03 09:20:24.0 +02:00
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        +markedForDeletionAt: null
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        +oauthGithubId: null
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        +isBot: false
        +spamProtection: true
        +customCss: null
        +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
        +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1631 …}
        +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1713 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1710 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1742 …}
        +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1659 …}
        +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1747 …}
        +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1473 …}
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        +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1493 …}
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        +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1427 …}
        +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1437 …}
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          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
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          ---\n
          \n
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          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
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          \n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
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        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
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      “We” meaning the US?\n
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      Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
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          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
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          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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      “We” meaning the US?\n
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      Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
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          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
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          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
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          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
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          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
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        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
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      “We” meaning the US?\n
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      Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
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      +slug: "Would-anyone-here-know-why-we-refuse-to-send-international"
      +title: "Would anyone here know why we refuse to send international observers to some countries ?"
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      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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      “We” meaning the US?\n
      \n
      Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
      """
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        I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
        For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
        In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
        """
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      +body: "Sure, I would love to see those sources if you find them. Venezuela and Russia, if you would."
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      +body: """
        I can’t find this source again(, when they said that they lacked time to send observers), it wasn’t talked much at the time, but i’m positive it happened, here’s an example of refusal for 2020 though : [theglobeandmail.com/…/article-eu-says-it-wont-sen…](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-eu-says-it-wont-send-observers-to-monitor-venezuelan-election-due-to/)  \n
        Apparently, they’ve agreed to send observers in 2021 : [postguam.com/…/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13…](https://www.postguam.com/the_globe/world/maduro-electoral-observers-from-eu-delegation-of-spies/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13b5cf9ed4e5.html)  \n
        The last time was in 2015, once again at the request of the venezuelan government : [www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en](https://www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en)  \n
        Some people say that the government won’t ask again in 2024 : [reuters.com/…/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-electio…](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-election-observers-2024-vote-lawmaker-2023-07-13/)  \n
        But i’ve clearly overestimated the impact : Venezuela will still be sanctioned and the public opinion will still consider that they’re miscounting the votes. Allowing international observers or not doesn’t change anything in the end, we’ll only be satisfied once the socialist revolution is out, and will continue to accept unsatisfying electoral conditions with our allies(, e.g., in Africa).  \n
        You’ll need to read pro-venezuelans medias to see the other point of view.\n
        \n
        As for Russia, you’ll mostly find articles saying that his disapproval rate is at an all-time high, but [this kind of article](https://scottgehlbach.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/FGMR-Putin.pdf), or [statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-rating-russia/), are confirming that he’s one of the most popular president in the world. I could easily find more sources for this, so the reasoning is that when you’re so overwhelmingly popular there’s no need to miscount the votes in your favor :  \n
        ![](https://i.postimg.cc/CxGfXkCm/Screenshot-2023-12-06-10-56-12-451-org-mozilla-firefox-edit.jpg)\n
        \n
        Are you unsatisfied with the sources or my conclusions ?
        """
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      +body: "Well, the sources are satisfying in that they disprove a lot of what you’re saying. Venezuela was declined once while most of the time observers were sent. And you were unable to find sources for Russia at all."
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      +body: """
        You’re evidently right, but many articles for the 2021 elections(, [1](https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/eu-observers-begin-work-ahead-of-venezuela-elections/), [2](https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20211119-skeptical-opposition-participating-in-venezuela-regional-elections), [3](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/11/23/venezuela-recent-elections-an-improvement-over-past-votes-eu), …, including the one cited), said that it has been 15 years since the EU sent observers.\n
        \n
        In any case i would like to emphasised that this debate isn’t useful : even if westerners systematically sent observers they would still claim that the results are illegitimate because of the overall process(, which deserve some explanations/debates because our own system is far from perfect, and we’re blending the consequences&causes of the sanctions, etc.). I should have deleted this post like i intended at first once i realized that.\n
        \n
        A few more minutes of research wielded these results :\n
        \n
        - EU won’t send observervation mission in Bangladesh : [thedailystar.net/…/eu-wont-send-observeration-mis…](https://www.thedailystar.net/news/bangladesh/news/eu-wont-send-observeration-mission-3424326)\n
        - The United States, European Union, France and Japan say they have no plans to send electoral observers or to provide assistance to Cambodia : [rfa.org/…/election-international-observers-033120…](https://www.rfa.org/english/news/cambodia/election-international-observers-03312023140751.html)\n
        - The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) will not send observers to Russia’s upcoming elections for the first time in nearly three decades : [www.rferl.org/a/…/31393760.html](https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-elections-osce-observers/31393760.html)(, “The insistence of the Russian authorities on limiting the number of observers we could send without any clear pandemic-related restrictions has unfortunately made today’s step unavoidable. The OSCE had been invited to observe the Russian elections, but the number of allowed observers was later restricted to 60 due to what Russian authorities cited as the deteriorating pandemic situation in the country. (…) The OSCE had assessed earlier this year that it needed 80 long-term and 420 short-term observers.”)\n
        - The European Union has scrapped plans to send observers to a parliamentary election in Ethiopia next month : [reuters.com/…/eu-scraps-plan-observe-ethiopia-ele…](https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/eu-scraps-plan-observe-ethiopia-election-2021-05-04)(, criticism of their official reasons here [euobserver.com/opinion/152293](https://euobserver.com/opinion/152293) : « The International Republican Institute and National Democratic Institute sent missions to observe, and the African Union sent 120 observers. Yet the EU decided against sending a delegation, despite promises earlier in the year to do so. (…) The African Union’s observer team has praised the election, as have ambassadors from Sweden and Denmark. », that’s exactly an example of what i’m talking about, with false excuses/pretexts.\n
        \n
        I didn’t write that we refused to send international observers to Russia, but that « i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia », despite « the reasoning that when you’re so overwhelmingly popular there’s no need to miscount the votes in your favor ».  \n
        It appears that we did send international observers(, until 2021), but my point is that it wasn’t necessary, yet we’re still showing suspicions(, e.g. the balloon in front of a c.c.t.v. to take an example).\n
        \n
        I’d just like to end by saying once again that this whole debate is pointless because it doesn’t change anything in the end, whether we systematically refused to send observers, or always sent them while accusing the whole “democratic” process instead(, it’s apparently in-between, but much more the latter than the former, contrary to what i initially thought).  \n
        I should have deleted this post from the start like i first intended once i realised, in the selftext, that « In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it. »\n
        \n
        Sorry if you felt that i wasted your time.
        """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          ---\n
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          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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        “We” meaning the US?\n
        \n
        Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
        """
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      I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
      For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
      In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
      """
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      +slug: "Would-anyone-here-know-why-we-refuse-to-send-international"
      +title: "Would anyone here know why we refuse to send international observers to some countries ?"
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      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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        “We” meaning the US?\n
        \n
        Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
        """
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      I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
      For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
      In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
      """
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Component
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vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 16.0 MiB 0.49 ms
Input props
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
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          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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        “We” meaning the US?\n
        \n
        Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
        """
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      I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
      For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
      In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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        Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
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      I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
      For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
      In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
      """
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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        “We” meaning the US?\n
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        Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
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      I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
      For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
      In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
      """
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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        “We” meaning the US?\n
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        Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
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      I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
      For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
      In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
      """
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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        “We” meaning the US?\n
        \n
        Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
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      I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
      For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
      In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
      """
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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        “We” meaning the US?\n
        \n
        Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
        """
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      I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
      For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
      In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
      """
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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          “We” meaning the US?\n
          \n
          Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
          """
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        I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
        For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
        In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
        """
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    +body: "Sure, I would love to see those sources if you find them. Venezuela and Russia, if you would."
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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          Partnered Communities:\n
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          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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          \n
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          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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          “We” meaning the US?\n
          \n
          Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
          """
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        I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
        For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
        In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
        """
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    +body: "Sure, I would love to see those sources if you find them. Venezuela and Russia, if you would."
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    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4268 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4270 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4272 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4274 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4276 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4278 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4280 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4282 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4284 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4286 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4288 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4290 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4292 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4294 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4296 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4298 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4300 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4304 …}
    +apId: "SHamblingSHapes@lemmy.one"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.one/u/SHamblingSHapes"
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    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.one/inbox"
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    +apDiscoverable: true
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    +privateKey: null
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    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1726330091 {#4236
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687546304 {#4237
      date: 2023-06-23 20:51:44.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#16620
  +user: App\Entity\User {#4251
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "SHamblingSHapes@lemmy.one"
    +username: "@SHamblingSHapes@lemmy.one"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1705561928 {#4235
      date: 2024-01-18 08:12:08.0 +01:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4252 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4254 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4256 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4258 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4260 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4262 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4264 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4266 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4268 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4270 …}
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    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4274 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4276 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4278 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4280 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4282 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4284 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4286 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4288 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4290 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4292 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4294 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4296 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4298 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4300 …}
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    -id: 9506
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4304 …}
    +apId: "SHamblingSHapes@lemmy.one"
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    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.one/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.one"
    +apPreferredUsername: "SHamblingSHapes"
    +apDiscoverable: true
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    +privateKey: null
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    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1726330091 {#4236
      date: 2024-09-14 18:08:11.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687546304 {#4237
      date: 2023-06-23 20:51:44.0 +02:00
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  +showAvatar: false
}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 16.0 MiB 0.17 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1701831575 {#4388
    date: 2023-12-06 03:59:35.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#16675
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1701831575 {#4388
    date: 2023-12-06 03:59:35.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 16.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1701831575 {#4388
    date: 2023-12-06 03:59:35.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1703131494 {#4384
    date: 2023-12-21 05:04:54.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#16729
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701831575 {#4388
    date: 2023-12-06 03:59:35.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703131494 {#4384
    date: 2023-12-21 05:04:54.0 +01:00
  }
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 16.0 MiB 0.15 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#4251
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "SHamblingSHapes@lemmy.one"
    +username: "@SHamblingSHapes@lemmy.one"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1705561928 {#4235
      date: 2024-01-18 08:12:08.0 +01:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
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    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
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    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
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    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4252 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4254 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4256 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4258 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4260 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4262 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4264 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4266 …}
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    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4278 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4280 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4282 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4284 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4286 …}
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    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4290 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4292 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4294 …}
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    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4298 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4304 …}
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    +privateKey: null
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687546304 {#4237
      date: 2023-06-23 20:51:44.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#16783
  +width: 40
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  +user: App\Entity\User {#4251
    +avatar: null
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    +email: "SHamblingSHapes@lemmy.one"
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    +roles: []
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      date: 2024-01-18 08:12:08.0 +01:00
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
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    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4252 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4254 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4256 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4258 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4260 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4262 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4264 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4266 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4268 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4270 …}
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    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4274 …}
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    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4278 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4280 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4282 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4284 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4286 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4288 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4290 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
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}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 16.0 MiB 0.53 ms
Input props
[
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      +email: "SHamblingSHapes@lemmy.one"
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      +customCss: null
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      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4254 …}
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      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4258 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4260 …}
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      +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4284 …}
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      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4290 …}
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      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4304 …}
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      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1726330091 {#4236
        date: 2024-09-14 18:08:11.0 +02:00
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      +apDeletedAt: null
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      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687546304 {#4237
        date: 2023-06-23 20:51:44.0 +02:00
      }
    }
    +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2400
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978
        +avatar: null
        +cover: null
        +email: "sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
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        +about: "There’s not much to learn by talking with people that already agree with you"
        +lastActive: DateTime @1719991224 {#1519
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        +markedForDeletionAt: null
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        +customCss: null
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        +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1631 …}
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        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1710 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1742 …}
        +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1659 …}
        +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1747 …}
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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          “We” meaning the US?\n
          \n
          Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
          """
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        I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
        For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
        In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
        """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
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          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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          “We” meaning the US?\n
          \n
          Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
          """
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        I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
        For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
        In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
        """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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          “We” meaning the US?\n
          \n
          Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
          """
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        I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
        For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
        In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
        """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
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          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
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          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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        +body: """
          “We” meaning the US?\n
          \n
          Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
          """
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      +body: """
        I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
        For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
        In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
        """
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    +body: "Sure, I would love to see those sources if you find them. Venezuela and Russia, if you would."
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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          “We” meaning the US?\n
          \n
          Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
          """
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        I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
        For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
        In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
        """
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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          “We” meaning the US?\n
          \n
          Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
          """
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        I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
        For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
        In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
        """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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            “We” meaning the US?\n
            \n
            Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
            """
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          I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
          For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
          In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
          """
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      I can’t find this source again(, when they said that they lacked time to send observers), it wasn’t talked much at the time, but i’m positive it happened, here’s an example of refusal for 2020 though : [theglobeandmail.com/…/article-eu-says-it-wont-sen…](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-eu-says-it-wont-send-observers-to-monitor-venezuelan-election-due-to/)  \n
      Apparently, they’ve agreed to send observers in 2021 : [postguam.com/…/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13…](https://www.postguam.com/the_globe/world/maduro-electoral-observers-from-eu-delegation-of-spies/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13b5cf9ed4e5.html)  \n
      The last time was in 2015, once again at the request of the venezuelan government : [www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en](https://www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en)  \n
      Some people say that the government won’t ask again in 2024 : [reuters.com/…/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-electio…](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-election-observers-2024-vote-lawmaker-2023-07-13/)  \n
      But i’ve clearly overestimated the impact : Venezuela will still be sanctioned and the public opinion will still consider that they’re miscounting the votes. Allowing international observers or not doesn’t change anything in the end, we’ll only be satisfied once the socialist revolution is out, and will continue to accept unsatisfying electoral conditions with our allies(, e.g., in Africa).  \n
      You’ll need to read pro-venezuelans medias to see the other point of view.\n
      \n
      As for Russia, you’ll mostly find articles saying that his disapproval rate is at an all-time high, but [this kind of article](https://scottgehlbach.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/FGMR-Putin.pdf), or [statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-rating-russia/), are confirming that he’s one of the most popular president in the world. I could easily find more sources for this, so the reasoning is that when you’re so overwhelmingly popular there’s no need to miscount the votes in your favor :  \n
      ![](https://i.postimg.cc/CxGfXkCm/Screenshot-2023-12-06-10-56-12-451-org-mozilla-firefox-edit.jpg)\n
      \n
      Are you unsatisfied with the sources or my conclusions ?
      """
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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            “We” meaning the US?\n
            \n
            Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
            """
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          I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
          For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
          In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
          """
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      +body: "Sure, I would love to see those sources if you find them. Venezuela and Russia, if you would."
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    +body: """
      I can’t find this source again(, when they said that they lacked time to send observers), it wasn’t talked much at the time, but i’m positive it happened, here’s an example of refusal for 2020 though : [theglobeandmail.com/…/article-eu-says-it-wont-sen…](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-eu-says-it-wont-send-observers-to-monitor-venezuelan-election-due-to/)  \n
      Apparently, they’ve agreed to send observers in 2021 : [postguam.com/…/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13…](https://www.postguam.com/the_globe/world/maduro-electoral-observers-from-eu-delegation-of-spies/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13b5cf9ed4e5.html)  \n
      The last time was in 2015, once again at the request of the venezuelan government : [www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en](https://www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en)  \n
      Some people say that the government won’t ask again in 2024 : [reuters.com/…/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-electio…](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-election-observers-2024-vote-lawmaker-2023-07-13/)  \n
      But i’ve clearly overestimated the impact : Venezuela will still be sanctioned and the public opinion will still consider that they’re miscounting the votes. Allowing international observers or not doesn’t change anything in the end, we’ll only be satisfied once the socialist revolution is out, and will continue to accept unsatisfying electoral conditions with our allies(, e.g., in Africa).  \n
      You’ll need to read pro-venezuelans medias to see the other point of view.\n
      \n
      As for Russia, you’ll mostly find articles saying that his disapproval rate is at an all-time high, but [this kind of article](https://scottgehlbach.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/FGMR-Putin.pdf), or [statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-rating-russia/), are confirming that he’s one of the most popular president in the world. I could easily find more sources for this, so the reasoning is that when you’re so overwhelmingly popular there’s no need to miscount the votes in your favor :  \n
      ![](https://i.postimg.cc/CxGfXkCm/Screenshot-2023-12-06-10-56-12-451-org-mozilla-firefox-edit.jpg)\n
      \n
      Are you unsatisfied with the sources or my conclusions ?
      """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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            “We” meaning the US?\n
            \n
            Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
            """
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          I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
          For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
          In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
          """
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      +body: "Sure, I would love to see those sources if you find them. Venezuela and Russia, if you would."
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      I can’t find this source again(, when they said that they lacked time to send observers), it wasn’t talked much at the time, but i’m positive it happened, here’s an example of refusal for 2020 though : [theglobeandmail.com/…/article-eu-says-it-wont-sen…](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-eu-says-it-wont-send-observers-to-monitor-venezuelan-election-due-to/)  \n
      Apparently, they’ve agreed to send observers in 2021 : [postguam.com/…/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13…](https://www.postguam.com/the_globe/world/maduro-electoral-observers-from-eu-delegation-of-spies/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13b5cf9ed4e5.html)  \n
      The last time was in 2015, once again at the request of the venezuelan government : [www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en](https://www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en)  \n
      Some people say that the government won’t ask again in 2024 : [reuters.com/…/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-electio…](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-election-observers-2024-vote-lawmaker-2023-07-13/)  \n
      But i’ve clearly overestimated the impact : Venezuela will still be sanctioned and the public opinion will still consider that they’re miscounting the votes. Allowing international observers or not doesn’t change anything in the end, we’ll only be satisfied once the socialist revolution is out, and will continue to accept unsatisfying electoral conditions with our allies(, e.g., in Africa).  \n
      You’ll need to read pro-venezuelans medias to see the other point of view.\n
      \n
      As for Russia, you’ll mostly find articles saying that his disapproval rate is at an all-time high, but [this kind of article](https://scottgehlbach.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/FGMR-Putin.pdf), or [statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-rating-russia/), are confirming that he’s one of the most popular president in the world. I could easily find more sources for this, so the reasoning is that when you’re so overwhelmingly popular there’s no need to miscount the votes in your favor :  \n
      ![](https://i.postimg.cc/CxGfXkCm/Screenshot-2023-12-06-10-56-12-451-org-mozilla-firefox-edit.jpg)\n
      \n
      Are you unsatisfied with the sources or my conclusions ?
      """
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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            “We” meaning the US?\n
            \n
            Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
            """
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          I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
          For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
          In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
          """
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    +body: """
      I can’t find this source again(, when they said that they lacked time to send observers), it wasn’t talked much at the time, but i’m positive it happened, here’s an example of refusal for 2020 though : [theglobeandmail.com/…/article-eu-says-it-wont-sen…](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-eu-says-it-wont-send-observers-to-monitor-venezuelan-election-due-to/)  \n
      Apparently, they’ve agreed to send observers in 2021 : [postguam.com/…/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13…](https://www.postguam.com/the_globe/world/maduro-electoral-observers-from-eu-delegation-of-spies/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13b5cf9ed4e5.html)  \n
      The last time was in 2015, once again at the request of the venezuelan government : [www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en](https://www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en)  \n
      Some people say that the government won’t ask again in 2024 : [reuters.com/…/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-electio…](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-election-observers-2024-vote-lawmaker-2023-07-13/)  \n
      But i’ve clearly overestimated the impact : Venezuela will still be sanctioned and the public opinion will still consider that they’re miscounting the votes. Allowing international observers or not doesn’t change anything in the end, we’ll only be satisfied once the socialist revolution is out, and will continue to accept unsatisfying electoral conditions with our allies(, e.g., in Africa).  \n
      You’ll need to read pro-venezuelans medias to see the other point of view.\n
      \n
      As for Russia, you’ll mostly find articles saying that his disapproval rate is at an all-time high, but [this kind of article](https://scottgehlbach.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/FGMR-Putin.pdf), or [statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-rating-russia/), are confirming that he’s one of the most popular president in the world. I could easily find more sources for this, so the reasoning is that when you’re so overwhelmingly popular there’s no need to miscount the votes in your favor :  \n
      ![](https://i.postimg.cc/CxGfXkCm/Screenshot-2023-12-06-10-56-12-451-org-mozilla-firefox-edit.jpg)\n
      \n
      Are you unsatisfied with the sources or my conclusions ?
      """
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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            “We” meaning the US?\n
            \n
            Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
            """
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          I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
          For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
          In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
          """
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    +body: """
      I can’t find this source again(, when they said that they lacked time to send observers), it wasn’t talked much at the time, but i’m positive it happened, here’s an example of refusal for 2020 though : [theglobeandmail.com/…/article-eu-says-it-wont-sen…](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-eu-says-it-wont-send-observers-to-monitor-venezuelan-election-due-to/)  \n
      Apparently, they’ve agreed to send observers in 2021 : [postguam.com/…/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13…](https://www.postguam.com/the_globe/world/maduro-electoral-observers-from-eu-delegation-of-spies/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13b5cf9ed4e5.html)  \n
      The last time was in 2015, once again at the request of the venezuelan government : [www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en](https://www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en)  \n
      Some people say that the government won’t ask again in 2024 : [reuters.com/…/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-electio…](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-election-observers-2024-vote-lawmaker-2023-07-13/)  \n
      But i’ve clearly overestimated the impact : Venezuela will still be sanctioned and the public opinion will still consider that they’re miscounting the votes. Allowing international observers or not doesn’t change anything in the end, we’ll only be satisfied once the socialist revolution is out, and will continue to accept unsatisfying electoral conditions with our allies(, e.g., in Africa).  \n
      You’ll need to read pro-venezuelans medias to see the other point of view.\n
      \n
      As for Russia, you’ll mostly find articles saying that his disapproval rate is at an all-time high, but [this kind of article](https://scottgehlbach.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/FGMR-Putin.pdf), or [statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-rating-russia/), are confirming that he’s one of the most popular president in the world. I could easily find more sources for this, so the reasoning is that when you’re so overwhelmingly popular there’s no need to miscount the votes in your favor :  \n
      ![](https://i.postimg.cc/CxGfXkCm/Screenshot-2023-12-06-10-56-12-451-org-mozilla-firefox-edit.jpg)\n
      \n
      Are you unsatisfied with the sources or my conclusions ?
      """
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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            “We” meaning the US?\n
            \n
            Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
            """
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          I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
          For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
          In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
          """
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      +body: "Sure, I would love to see those sources if you find them. Venezuela and Russia, if you would."
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    +body: """
      I can’t find this source again(, when they said that they lacked time to send observers), it wasn’t talked much at the time, but i’m positive it happened, here’s an example of refusal for 2020 though : [theglobeandmail.com/…/article-eu-says-it-wont-sen…](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-eu-says-it-wont-send-observers-to-monitor-venezuelan-election-due-to/)  \n
      Apparently, they’ve agreed to send observers in 2021 : [postguam.com/…/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13…](https://www.postguam.com/the_globe/world/maduro-electoral-observers-from-eu-delegation-of-spies/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13b5cf9ed4e5.html)  \n
      The last time was in 2015, once again at the request of the venezuelan government : [www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en](https://www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en)  \n
      Some people say that the government won’t ask again in 2024 : [reuters.com/…/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-electio…](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-election-observers-2024-vote-lawmaker-2023-07-13/)  \n
      But i’ve clearly overestimated the impact : Venezuela will still be sanctioned and the public opinion will still consider that they’re miscounting the votes. Allowing international observers or not doesn’t change anything in the end, we’ll only be satisfied once the socialist revolution is out, and will continue to accept unsatisfying electoral conditions with our allies(, e.g., in Africa).  \n
      You’ll need to read pro-venezuelans medias to see the other point of view.\n
      \n
      As for Russia, you’ll mostly find articles saying that his disapproval rate is at an all-time high, but [this kind of article](https://scottgehlbach.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/FGMR-Putin.pdf), or [statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-rating-russia/), are confirming that he’s one of the most popular president in the world. I could easily find more sources for this, so the reasoning is that when you’re so overwhelmingly popular there’s no need to miscount the votes in your favor :  \n
      ![](https://i.postimg.cc/CxGfXkCm/Screenshot-2023-12-06-10-56-12-451-org-mozilla-firefox-edit.jpg)\n
      \n
      Are you unsatisfied with the sources or my conclusions ?
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
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        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
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            “We” meaning the US?\n
            \n
            Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
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          I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
          For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
          In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
          """
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    +body: """
      I can’t find this source again(, when they said that they lacked time to send observers), it wasn’t talked much at the time, but i’m positive it happened, here’s an example of refusal for 2020 though : [theglobeandmail.com/…/article-eu-says-it-wont-sen…](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-eu-says-it-wont-send-observers-to-monitor-venezuelan-election-due-to/)  \n
      Apparently, they’ve agreed to send observers in 2021 : [postguam.com/…/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13…](https://www.postguam.com/the_globe/world/maduro-electoral-observers-from-eu-delegation-of-spies/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13b5cf9ed4e5.html)  \n
      The last time was in 2015, once again at the request of the venezuelan government : [www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en](https://www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en)  \n
      Some people say that the government won’t ask again in 2024 : [reuters.com/…/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-electio…](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-election-observers-2024-vote-lawmaker-2023-07-13/)  \n
      But i’ve clearly overestimated the impact : Venezuela will still be sanctioned and the public opinion will still consider that they’re miscounting the votes. Allowing international observers or not doesn’t change anything in the end, we’ll only be satisfied once the socialist revolution is out, and will continue to accept unsatisfying electoral conditions with our allies(, e.g., in Africa).  \n
      You’ll need to read pro-venezuelans medias to see the other point of view.\n
      \n
      As for Russia, you’ll mostly find articles saying that his disapproval rate is at an all-time high, but [this kind of article](https://scottgehlbach.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/FGMR-Putin.pdf), or [statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-rating-russia/), are confirming that he’s one of the most popular president in the world. I could easily find more sources for this, so the reasoning is that when you’re so overwhelmingly popular there’s no need to miscount the votes in your favor :  \n
      ![](https://i.postimg.cc/CxGfXkCm/Screenshot-2023-12-06-10-56-12-451-org-mozilla-firefox-edit.jpg)\n
      \n
      Are you unsatisfied with the sources or my conclusions ?
      """
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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            “We” meaning the US?\n
            \n
            Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
            """
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          I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
          For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
          In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
          """
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      I can’t find this source again(, when they said that they lacked time to send observers), it wasn’t talked much at the time, but i’m positive it happened, here’s an example of refusal for 2020 though : [theglobeandmail.com/…/article-eu-says-it-wont-sen…](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-eu-says-it-wont-send-observers-to-monitor-venezuelan-election-due-to/)  \n
      Apparently, they’ve agreed to send observers in 2021 : [postguam.com/…/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13…](https://www.postguam.com/the_globe/world/maduro-electoral-observers-from-eu-delegation-of-spies/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13b5cf9ed4e5.html)  \n
      The last time was in 2015, once again at the request of the venezuelan government : [www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en](https://www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en)  \n
      Some people say that the government won’t ask again in 2024 : [reuters.com/…/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-electio…](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-election-observers-2024-vote-lawmaker-2023-07-13/)  \n
      But i’ve clearly overestimated the impact : Venezuela will still be sanctioned and the public opinion will still consider that they’re miscounting the votes. Allowing international observers or not doesn’t change anything in the end, we’ll only be satisfied once the socialist revolution is out, and will continue to accept unsatisfying electoral conditions with our allies(, e.g., in Africa).  \n
      You’ll need to read pro-venezuelans medias to see the other point of view.\n
      \n
      As for Russia, you’ll mostly find articles saying that his disapproval rate is at an all-time high, but [this kind of article](https://scottgehlbach.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/FGMR-Putin.pdf), or [statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-rating-russia/), are confirming that he’s one of the most popular president in the world. I could easily find more sources for this, so the reasoning is that when you’re so overwhelmingly popular there’s no need to miscount the votes in your favor :  \n
      ![](https://i.postimg.cc/CxGfXkCm/Screenshot-2023-12-06-10-56-12-451-org-mozilla-firefox-edit.jpg)\n
      \n
      Are you unsatisfied with the sources or my conclusions ?
      """
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      +title: "Would anyone here know why we refuse to send international observers to some countries ?"
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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              “We” meaning the US?\n
              \n
              Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
              """
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            I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
            For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
            In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
            """
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        +body: "Sure, I would love to see those sources if you find them. Venezuela and Russia, if you would."
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      +body: """
        I can’t find this source again(, when they said that they lacked time to send observers), it wasn’t talked much at the time, but i’m positive it happened, here’s an example of refusal for 2020 though : [theglobeandmail.com/…/article-eu-says-it-wont-sen…](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-eu-says-it-wont-send-observers-to-monitor-venezuelan-election-due-to/)  \n
        Apparently, they’ve agreed to send observers in 2021 : [postguam.com/…/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13…](https://www.postguam.com/the_globe/world/maduro-electoral-observers-from-eu-delegation-of-spies/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13b5cf9ed4e5.html)  \n
        The last time was in 2015, once again at the request of the venezuelan government : [www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en](https://www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en)  \n
        Some people say that the government won’t ask again in 2024 : [reuters.com/…/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-electio…](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-election-observers-2024-vote-lawmaker-2023-07-13/)  \n
        But i’ve clearly overestimated the impact : Venezuela will still be sanctioned and the public opinion will still consider that they’re miscounting the votes. Allowing international observers or not doesn’t change anything in the end, we’ll only be satisfied once the socialist revolution is out, and will continue to accept unsatisfying electoral conditions with our allies(, e.g., in Africa).  \n
        You’ll need to read pro-venezuelans medias to see the other point of view.\n
        \n
        As for Russia, you’ll mostly find articles saying that his disapproval rate is at an all-time high, but [this kind of article](https://scottgehlbach.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/FGMR-Putin.pdf), or [statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-rating-russia/), are confirming that he’s one of the most popular president in the world. I could easily find more sources for this, so the reasoning is that when you’re so overwhelmingly popular there’s no need to miscount the votes in your favor :  \n
        ![](https://i.postimg.cc/CxGfXkCm/Screenshot-2023-12-06-10-56-12-451-org-mozilla-firefox-edit.jpg)\n
        \n
        Are you unsatisfied with the sources or my conclusions ?
        """
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          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
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          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
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          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
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          Partnered Communities:\n
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          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
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          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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              “We” meaning the US?\n
              \n
              Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
              """
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            I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
            For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
            In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
            """
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        +body: "Sure, I would love to see those sources if you find them. Venezuela and Russia, if you would."
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        I can’t find this source again(, when they said that they lacked time to send observers), it wasn’t talked much at the time, but i’m positive it happened, here’s an example of refusal for 2020 though : [theglobeandmail.com/…/article-eu-says-it-wont-sen…](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-eu-says-it-wont-send-observers-to-monitor-venezuelan-election-due-to/)  \n
        Apparently, they’ve agreed to send observers in 2021 : [postguam.com/…/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13…](https://www.postguam.com/the_globe/world/maduro-electoral-observers-from-eu-delegation-of-spies/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13b5cf9ed4e5.html)  \n
        The last time was in 2015, once again at the request of the venezuelan government : [www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en](https://www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en)  \n
        Some people say that the government won’t ask again in 2024 : [reuters.com/…/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-electio…](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-election-observers-2024-vote-lawmaker-2023-07-13/)  \n
        But i’ve clearly overestimated the impact : Venezuela will still be sanctioned and the public opinion will still consider that they’re miscounting the votes. Allowing international observers or not doesn’t change anything in the end, we’ll only be satisfied once the socialist revolution is out, and will continue to accept unsatisfying electoral conditions with our allies(, e.g., in Africa).  \n
        You’ll need to read pro-venezuelans medias to see the other point of view.\n
        \n
        As for Russia, you’ll mostly find articles saying that his disapproval rate is at an all-time high, but [this kind of article](https://scottgehlbach.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/FGMR-Putin.pdf), or [statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-rating-russia/), are confirming that he’s one of the most popular president in the world. I could easily find more sources for this, so the reasoning is that when you’re so overwhelmingly popular there’s no need to miscount the votes in your favor :  \n
        ![](https://i.postimg.cc/CxGfXkCm/Screenshot-2023-12-06-10-56-12-451-org-mozilla-firefox-edit.jpg)\n
        \n
        Are you unsatisfied with the sources or my conclusions ?
        """
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App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#18055
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    date: 2023-12-06 13:13:47.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703185807 {#4512
    date: 2023-12-21 20:10:07.0 +01:00
  }
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 16.0 MiB 0.15 ms
Input props
[
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    +cover: null
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  "width" => 40
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#18109
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}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 16.0 MiB 0.64 ms
Input props
[
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    +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2400
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        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
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        +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
        +title: "asklemmy"
        +description: """
          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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          date: 2024-10-22 09:48:21.0 +02:00
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      +slug: "Would-anyone-here-know-why-we-refuse-to-send-international"
      +title: "Would anyone here know why we refuse to send international observers to some countries ?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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              “We” meaning the US?\n
              \n
              Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
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            I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
            For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
            In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
            """
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        I can’t find this source again(, when they said that they lacked time to send observers), it wasn’t talked much at the time, but i’m positive it happened, here’s an example of refusal for 2020 though : [theglobeandmail.com/…/article-eu-says-it-wont-sen…](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-eu-says-it-wont-send-observers-to-monitor-venezuelan-election-due-to/)  \n
        Apparently, they’ve agreed to send observers in 2021 : [postguam.com/…/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13…](https://www.postguam.com/the_globe/world/maduro-electoral-observers-from-eu-delegation-of-spies/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13b5cf9ed4e5.html)  \n
        The last time was in 2015, once again at the request of the venezuelan government : [www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en](https://www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en)  \n
        Some people say that the government won’t ask again in 2024 : [reuters.com/…/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-electio…](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-election-observers-2024-vote-lawmaker-2023-07-13/)  \n
        But i’ve clearly overestimated the impact : Venezuela will still be sanctioned and the public opinion will still consider that they’re miscounting the votes. Allowing international observers or not doesn’t change anything in the end, we’ll only be satisfied once the socialist revolution is out, and will continue to accept unsatisfying electoral conditions with our allies(, e.g., in Africa).  \n
        You’ll need to read pro-venezuelans medias to see the other point of view.\n
        \n
        As for Russia, you’ll mostly find articles saying that his disapproval rate is at an all-time high, but [this kind of article](https://scottgehlbach.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/FGMR-Putin.pdf), or [statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-rating-russia/), are confirming that he’s one of the most popular president in the world. I could easily find more sources for this, so the reasoning is that when you’re so overwhelmingly popular there’s no need to miscount the votes in your favor :  \n
        ![](https://i.postimg.cc/CxGfXkCm/Screenshot-2023-12-06-10-56-12-451-org-mozilla-firefox-edit.jpg)\n
        \n
        Are you unsatisfied with the sources or my conclusions ?
        """
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      +title: "Would anyone here know why we refuse to send international observers to some countries ?"
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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              “We” meaning the US?\n
              \n
              Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
              """
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            I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
            For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
            In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
            """
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        +body: "Sure, I would love to see those sources if you find them. Venezuela and Russia, if you would."
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      +body: """
        I can’t find this source again(, when they said that they lacked time to send observers), it wasn’t talked much at the time, but i’m positive it happened, here’s an example of refusal for 2020 though : [theglobeandmail.com/…/article-eu-says-it-wont-sen…](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-eu-says-it-wont-send-observers-to-monitor-venezuelan-election-due-to/)  \n
        Apparently, they’ve agreed to send observers in 2021 : [postguam.com/…/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13…](https://www.postguam.com/the_globe/world/maduro-electoral-observers-from-eu-delegation-of-spies/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13b5cf9ed4e5.html)  \n
        The last time was in 2015, once again at the request of the venezuelan government : [www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en](https://www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en)  \n
        Some people say that the government won’t ask again in 2024 : [reuters.com/…/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-electio…](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-election-observers-2024-vote-lawmaker-2023-07-13/)  \n
        But i’ve clearly overestimated the impact : Venezuela will still be sanctioned and the public opinion will still consider that they’re miscounting the votes. Allowing international observers or not doesn’t change anything in the end, we’ll only be satisfied once the socialist revolution is out, and will continue to accept unsatisfying electoral conditions with our allies(, e.g., in Africa).  \n
        You’ll need to read pro-venezuelans medias to see the other point of view.\n
        \n
        As for Russia, you’ll mostly find articles saying that his disapproval rate is at an all-time high, but [this kind of article](https://scottgehlbach.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/FGMR-Putin.pdf), or [statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-rating-russia/), are confirming that he’s one of the most popular president in the world. I could easily find more sources for this, so the reasoning is that when you’re so overwhelmingly popular there’s no need to miscount the votes in your favor :  \n
        ![](https://i.postimg.cc/CxGfXkCm/Screenshot-2023-12-06-10-56-12-451-org-mozilla-firefox-edit.jpg)\n
        \n
        Are you unsatisfied with the sources or my conclusions ?
        """
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    +body: "Well, the sources are satisfying in that they disprove a lot of what you’re saying. Venezuela was declined once while most of the time observers were sent. And you were unable to find sources for Russia at all."
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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              “We” meaning the US?\n
              \n
              Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
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            I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
            For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
            In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
            """
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      +body: """
        I can’t find this source again(, when they said that they lacked time to send observers), it wasn’t talked much at the time, but i’m positive it happened, here’s an example of refusal for 2020 though : [theglobeandmail.com/…/article-eu-says-it-wont-sen…](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-eu-says-it-wont-send-observers-to-monitor-venezuelan-election-due-to/)  \n
        Apparently, they’ve agreed to send observers in 2021 : [postguam.com/…/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13…](https://www.postguam.com/the_globe/world/maduro-electoral-observers-from-eu-delegation-of-spies/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13b5cf9ed4e5.html)  \n
        The last time was in 2015, once again at the request of the venezuelan government : [www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en](https://www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en)  \n
        Some people say that the government won’t ask again in 2024 : [reuters.com/…/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-electio…](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-election-observers-2024-vote-lawmaker-2023-07-13/)  \n
        But i’ve clearly overestimated the impact : Venezuela will still be sanctioned and the public opinion will still consider that they’re miscounting the votes. Allowing international observers or not doesn’t change anything in the end, we’ll only be satisfied once the socialist revolution is out, and will continue to accept unsatisfying electoral conditions with our allies(, e.g., in Africa).  \n
        You’ll need to read pro-venezuelans medias to see the other point of view.\n
        \n
        As for Russia, you’ll mostly find articles saying that his disapproval rate is at an all-time high, but [this kind of article](https://scottgehlbach.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/FGMR-Putin.pdf), or [statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-rating-russia/), are confirming that he’s one of the most popular president in the world. I could easily find more sources for this, so the reasoning is that when you’re so overwhelmingly popular there’s no need to miscount the votes in your favor :  \n
        ![](https://i.postimg.cc/CxGfXkCm/Screenshot-2023-12-06-10-56-12-451-org-mozilla-firefox-edit.jpg)\n
        \n
        Are you unsatisfied with the sources or my conclusions ?
        """
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      +slug: "Would-anyone-here-know-why-we-refuse-to-send-international"
      +title: "Would anyone here know why we refuse to send international observers to some countries ?"
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      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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            +body: """
              “We” meaning the US?\n
              \n
              Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
              """
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            I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
            For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
            In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
            """
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        +body: "Sure, I would love to see those sources if you find them. Venezuela and Russia, if you would."
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      +body: """
        I can’t find this source again(, when they said that they lacked time to send observers), it wasn’t talked much at the time, but i’m positive it happened, here’s an example of refusal for 2020 though : [theglobeandmail.com/…/article-eu-says-it-wont-sen…](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-eu-says-it-wont-send-observers-to-monitor-venezuelan-election-due-to/)  \n
        Apparently, they’ve agreed to send observers in 2021 : [postguam.com/…/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13…](https://www.postguam.com/the_globe/world/maduro-electoral-observers-from-eu-delegation-of-spies/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13b5cf9ed4e5.html)  \n
        The last time was in 2015, once again at the request of the venezuelan government : [www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en](https://www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en)  \n
        Some people say that the government won’t ask again in 2024 : [reuters.com/…/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-electio…](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-election-observers-2024-vote-lawmaker-2023-07-13/)  \n
        But i’ve clearly overestimated the impact : Venezuela will still be sanctioned and the public opinion will still consider that they’re miscounting the votes. Allowing international observers or not doesn’t change anything in the end, we’ll only be satisfied once the socialist revolution is out, and will continue to accept unsatisfying electoral conditions with our allies(, e.g., in Africa).  \n
        You’ll need to read pro-venezuelans medias to see the other point of view.\n
        \n
        As for Russia, you’ll mostly find articles saying that his disapproval rate is at an all-time high, but [this kind of article](https://scottgehlbach.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/FGMR-Putin.pdf), or [statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-rating-russia/), are confirming that he’s one of the most popular president in the world. I could easily find more sources for this, so the reasoning is that when you’re so overwhelmingly popular there’s no need to miscount the votes in your favor :  \n
        ![](https://i.postimg.cc/CxGfXkCm/Screenshot-2023-12-06-10-56-12-451-org-mozilla-firefox-edit.jpg)\n
        \n
        Are you unsatisfied with the sources or my conclusions ?
        """
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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              “We” meaning the US?\n
              \n
              Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
              """
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            I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
            For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
            In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
            """
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        +body: "Sure, I would love to see those sources if you find them. Venezuela and Russia, if you would."
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        I can’t find this source again(, when they said that they lacked time to send observers), it wasn’t talked much at the time, but i’m positive it happened, here’s an example of refusal for 2020 though : [theglobeandmail.com/…/article-eu-says-it-wont-sen…](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-eu-says-it-wont-send-observers-to-monitor-venezuelan-election-due-to/)  \n
        Apparently, they’ve agreed to send observers in 2021 : [postguam.com/…/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13…](https://www.postguam.com/the_globe/world/maduro-electoral-observers-from-eu-delegation-of-spies/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13b5cf9ed4e5.html)  \n
        The last time was in 2015, once again at the request of the venezuelan government : [www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en](https://www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en)  \n
        Some people say that the government won’t ask again in 2024 : [reuters.com/…/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-electio…](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-election-observers-2024-vote-lawmaker-2023-07-13/)  \n
        But i’ve clearly overestimated the impact : Venezuela will still be sanctioned and the public opinion will still consider that they’re miscounting the votes. Allowing international observers or not doesn’t change anything in the end, we’ll only be satisfied once the socialist revolution is out, and will continue to accept unsatisfying electoral conditions with our allies(, e.g., in Africa).  \n
        You’ll need to read pro-venezuelans medias to see the other point of view.\n
        \n
        As for Russia, you’ll mostly find articles saying that his disapproval rate is at an all-time high, but [this kind of article](https://scottgehlbach.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/FGMR-Putin.pdf), or [statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-rating-russia/), are confirming that he’s one of the most popular president in the world. I could easily find more sources for this, so the reasoning is that when you’re so overwhelmingly popular there’s no need to miscount the votes in your favor :  \n
        ![](https://i.postimg.cc/CxGfXkCm/Screenshot-2023-12-06-10-56-12-451-org-mozilla-firefox-edit.jpg)\n
        \n
        Are you unsatisfied with the sources or my conclusions ?
        """
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    +body: "Well, the sources are satisfying in that they disprove a lot of what you’re saying. Venezuela was declined once while most of the time observers were sent. And you were unable to find sources for Russia at all."
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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              “We” meaning the US?\n
              \n
              Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
              """
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            I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
            For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
            In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
            """
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        +body: "Sure, I would love to see those sources if you find them. Venezuela and Russia, if you would."
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        I can’t find this source again(, when they said that they lacked time to send observers), it wasn’t talked much at the time, but i’m positive it happened, here’s an example of refusal for 2020 though : [theglobeandmail.com/…/article-eu-says-it-wont-sen…](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-eu-says-it-wont-send-observers-to-monitor-venezuelan-election-due-to/)  \n
        Apparently, they’ve agreed to send observers in 2021 : [postguam.com/…/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13…](https://www.postguam.com/the_globe/world/maduro-electoral-observers-from-eu-delegation-of-spies/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13b5cf9ed4e5.html)  \n
        The last time was in 2015, once again at the request of the venezuelan government : [www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en](https://www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en)  \n
        Some people say that the government won’t ask again in 2024 : [reuters.com/…/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-electio…](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-election-observers-2024-vote-lawmaker-2023-07-13/)  \n
        But i’ve clearly overestimated the impact : Venezuela will still be sanctioned and the public opinion will still consider that they’re miscounting the votes. Allowing international observers or not doesn’t change anything in the end, we’ll only be satisfied once the socialist revolution is out, and will continue to accept unsatisfying electoral conditions with our allies(, e.g., in Africa).  \n
        You’ll need to read pro-venezuelans medias to see the other point of view.\n
        \n
        As for Russia, you’ll mostly find articles saying that his disapproval rate is at an all-time high, but [this kind of article](https://scottgehlbach.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/FGMR-Putin.pdf), or [statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-rating-russia/), are confirming that he’s one of the most popular president in the world. I could easily find more sources for this, so the reasoning is that when you’re so overwhelmingly popular there’s no need to miscount the votes in your favor :  \n
        ![](https://i.postimg.cc/CxGfXkCm/Screenshot-2023-12-06-10-56-12-451-org-mozilla-firefox-edit.jpg)\n
        \n
        Are you unsatisfied with the sources or my conclusions ?
        """
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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              +body: """
                “We” meaning the US?\n
                \n
                Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
                """
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              I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
              For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
              In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
              """
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          +body: "Sure, I would love to see those sources if you find them. Venezuela and Russia, if you would."
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        +body: """
          I can’t find this source again(, when they said that they lacked time to send observers), it wasn’t talked much at the time, but i’m positive it happened, here’s an example of refusal for 2020 though : [theglobeandmail.com/…/article-eu-says-it-wont-sen…](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-eu-says-it-wont-send-observers-to-monitor-venezuelan-election-due-to/)  \n
          Apparently, they’ve agreed to send observers in 2021 : [postguam.com/…/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13…](https://www.postguam.com/the_globe/world/maduro-electoral-observers-from-eu-delegation-of-spies/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13b5cf9ed4e5.html)  \n
          The last time was in 2015, once again at the request of the venezuelan government : [www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en](https://www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en)  \n
          Some people say that the government won’t ask again in 2024 : [reuters.com/…/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-electio…](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-election-observers-2024-vote-lawmaker-2023-07-13/)  \n
          But i’ve clearly overestimated the impact : Venezuela will still be sanctioned and the public opinion will still consider that they’re miscounting the votes. Allowing international observers or not doesn’t change anything in the end, we’ll only be satisfied once the socialist revolution is out, and will continue to accept unsatisfying electoral conditions with our allies(, e.g., in Africa).  \n
          You’ll need to read pro-venezuelans medias to see the other point of view.\n
          \n
          As for Russia, you’ll mostly find articles saying that his disapproval rate is at an all-time high, but [this kind of article](https://scottgehlbach.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/FGMR-Putin.pdf), or [statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-rating-russia/), are confirming that he’s one of the most popular president in the world. I could easily find more sources for this, so the reasoning is that when you’re so overwhelmingly popular there’s no need to miscount the votes in your favor :  \n
          ![](https://i.postimg.cc/CxGfXkCm/Screenshot-2023-12-06-10-56-12-451-org-mozilla-firefox-edit.jpg)\n
          \n
          Are you unsatisfied with the sources or my conclusions ?
          """
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      +body: "Well, the sources are satisfying in that they disprove a lot of what you’re saying. Venezuela was declined once while most of the time observers were sent. And you were unable to find sources for Russia at all."
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    +body: """
      You’re evidently right, but many articles for the 2021 elections(, [1](https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/eu-observers-begin-work-ahead-of-venezuela-elections/), [2](https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20211119-skeptical-opposition-participating-in-venezuela-regional-elections), [3](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/11/23/venezuela-recent-elections-an-improvement-over-past-votes-eu), …, including the one cited), said that it has been 15 years since the EU sent observers.\n
      \n
      In any case i would like to emphasised that this debate isn’t useful : even if westerners systematically sent observers they would still claim that the results are illegitimate because of the overall process(, which deserve some explanations/debates because our own system is far from perfect, and we’re blending the consequences&causes of the sanctions, etc.). I should have deleted this post like i intended at first once i realized that.\n
      \n
      A few more minutes of research wielded these results :\n
      \n
      - EU won’t send observervation mission in Bangladesh : [thedailystar.net/…/eu-wont-send-observeration-mis…](https://www.thedailystar.net/news/bangladesh/news/eu-wont-send-observeration-mission-3424326)\n
      - The United States, European Union, France and Japan say they have no plans to send electoral observers or to provide assistance to Cambodia : [rfa.org/…/election-international-observers-033120…](https://www.rfa.org/english/news/cambodia/election-international-observers-03312023140751.html)\n
      - The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) will not send observers to Russia’s upcoming elections for the first time in nearly three decades : [www.rferl.org/a/…/31393760.html](https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-elections-osce-observers/31393760.html)(, “The insistence of the Russian authorities on limiting the number of observers we could send without any clear pandemic-related restrictions has unfortunately made today’s step unavoidable. The OSCE had been invited to observe the Russian elections, but the number of allowed observers was later restricted to 60 due to what Russian authorities cited as the deteriorating pandemic situation in the country. (…) The OSCE had assessed earlier this year that it needed 80 long-term and 420 short-term observers.”)\n
      - The European Union has scrapped plans to send observers to a parliamentary election in Ethiopia next month : [reuters.com/…/eu-scraps-plan-observe-ethiopia-ele…](https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/eu-scraps-plan-observe-ethiopia-election-2021-05-04)(, criticism of their official reasons here [euobserver.com/opinion/152293](https://euobserver.com/opinion/152293) : « The International Republican Institute and National Democratic Institute sent missions to observe, and the African Union sent 120 observers. Yet the EU decided against sending a delegation, despite promises earlier in the year to do so. (…) The African Union’s observer team has praised the election, as have ambassadors from Sweden and Denmark. », that’s exactly an example of what i’m talking about, with false excuses/pretexts.\n
      \n
      I didn’t write that we refused to send international observers to Russia, but that « i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia », despite « the reasoning that when you’re so overwhelmingly popular there’s no need to miscount the votes in your favor ».  \n
      It appears that we did send international observers(, until 2021), but my point is that it wasn’t necessary, yet we’re still showing suspicions(, e.g. the balloon in front of a c.c.t.v. to take an example).\n
      \n
      I’d just like to end by saying once again that this whole debate is pointless because it doesn’t change anything in the end, whether we systematically refused to send observers, or always sent them while accusing the whole “democratic” process instead(, it’s apparently in-between, but much more the latter than the former, contrary to what i initially thought).  \n
      I should have deleted this post from the start like i first intended once i realised, in the selftext, that « In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it. »\n
      \n
      Sorry if you felt that i wasted your time.
      """
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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              +body: """
                “We” meaning the US?\n
                \n
                Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
                """
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              I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
              For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
              In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
              """
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          +body: "Sure, I would love to see those sources if you find them. Venezuela and Russia, if you would."
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          I can’t find this source again(, when they said that they lacked time to send observers), it wasn’t talked much at the time, but i’m positive it happened, here’s an example of refusal for 2020 though : [theglobeandmail.com/…/article-eu-says-it-wont-sen…](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-eu-says-it-wont-send-observers-to-monitor-venezuelan-election-due-to/)  \n
          Apparently, they’ve agreed to send observers in 2021 : [postguam.com/…/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13…](https://www.postguam.com/the_globe/world/maduro-electoral-observers-from-eu-delegation-of-spies/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13b5cf9ed4e5.html)  \n
          The last time was in 2015, once again at the request of the venezuelan government : [www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en](https://www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en)  \n
          Some people say that the government won’t ask again in 2024 : [reuters.com/…/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-electio…](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-election-observers-2024-vote-lawmaker-2023-07-13/)  \n
          But i’ve clearly overestimated the impact : Venezuela will still be sanctioned and the public opinion will still consider that they’re miscounting the votes. Allowing international observers or not doesn’t change anything in the end, we’ll only be satisfied once the socialist revolution is out, and will continue to accept unsatisfying electoral conditions with our allies(, e.g., in Africa).  \n
          You’ll need to read pro-venezuelans medias to see the other point of view.\n
          \n
          As for Russia, you’ll mostly find articles saying that his disapproval rate is at an all-time high, but [this kind of article](https://scottgehlbach.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/FGMR-Putin.pdf), or [statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-rating-russia/), are confirming that he’s one of the most popular president in the world. I could easily find more sources for this, so the reasoning is that when you’re so overwhelmingly popular there’s no need to miscount the votes in your favor :  \n
          ![](https://i.postimg.cc/CxGfXkCm/Screenshot-2023-12-06-10-56-12-451-org-mozilla-firefox-edit.jpg)\n
          \n
          Are you unsatisfied with the sources or my conclusions ?
          """
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      You’re evidently right, but many articles for the 2021 elections(, [1](https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/eu-observers-begin-work-ahead-of-venezuela-elections/), [2](https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20211119-skeptical-opposition-participating-in-venezuela-regional-elections), [3](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/11/23/venezuela-recent-elections-an-improvement-over-past-votes-eu), …, including the one cited), said that it has been 15 years since the EU sent observers.\n
      \n
      In any case i would like to emphasised that this debate isn’t useful : even if westerners systematically sent observers they would still claim that the results are illegitimate because of the overall process(, which deserve some explanations/debates because our own system is far from perfect, and we’re blending the consequences&causes of the sanctions, etc.). I should have deleted this post like i intended at first once i realized that.\n
      \n
      A few more minutes of research wielded these results :\n
      \n
      - EU won’t send observervation mission in Bangladesh : [thedailystar.net/…/eu-wont-send-observeration-mis…](https://www.thedailystar.net/news/bangladesh/news/eu-wont-send-observeration-mission-3424326)\n
      - The United States, European Union, France and Japan say they have no plans to send electoral observers or to provide assistance to Cambodia : [rfa.org/…/election-international-observers-033120…](https://www.rfa.org/english/news/cambodia/election-international-observers-03312023140751.html)\n
      - The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) will not send observers to Russia’s upcoming elections for the first time in nearly three decades : [www.rferl.org/a/…/31393760.html](https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-elections-osce-observers/31393760.html)(, “The insistence of the Russian authorities on limiting the number of observers we could send without any clear pandemic-related restrictions has unfortunately made today’s step unavoidable. The OSCE had been invited to observe the Russian elections, but the number of allowed observers was later restricted to 60 due to what Russian authorities cited as the deteriorating pandemic situation in the country. (…) The OSCE had assessed earlier this year that it needed 80 long-term and 420 short-term observers.”)\n
      - The European Union has scrapped plans to send observers to a parliamentary election in Ethiopia next month : [reuters.com/…/eu-scraps-plan-observe-ethiopia-ele…](https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/eu-scraps-plan-observe-ethiopia-election-2021-05-04)(, criticism of their official reasons here [euobserver.com/opinion/152293](https://euobserver.com/opinion/152293) : « The International Republican Institute and National Democratic Institute sent missions to observe, and the African Union sent 120 observers. Yet the EU decided against sending a delegation, despite promises earlier in the year to do so. (…) The African Union’s observer team has praised the election, as have ambassadors from Sweden and Denmark. », that’s exactly an example of what i’m talking about, with false excuses/pretexts.\n
      \n
      I didn’t write that we refused to send international observers to Russia, but that « i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia », despite « the reasoning that when you’re so overwhelmingly popular there’s no need to miscount the votes in your favor ».  \n
      It appears that we did send international observers(, until 2021), but my point is that it wasn’t necessary, yet we’re still showing suspicions(, e.g. the balloon in front of a c.c.t.v. to take an example).\n
      \n
      I’d just like to end by saying once again that this whole debate is pointless because it doesn’t change anything in the end, whether we systematically refused to send observers, or always sent them while accusing the whole “democratic” process instead(, it’s apparently in-between, but much more the latter than the former, contrary to what i initially thought).  \n
      I should have deleted this post from the start like i first intended once i realised, in the selftext, that « In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it. »\n
      \n
      Sorry if you felt that i wasted your time.
      """
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Component
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vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 18.0 MiB 3.18 ms
Input props
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          A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
          -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          **Rules: (interactive)**\n
          ------------------------\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
          \n
          Partnered Communities:\n
          ----------------------\n
          \n
          [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
          \n
          ---\n
          \n
          ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
          """
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      +body: """
        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
        \n
        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
        \n
        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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                “We” meaning the US?\n
                \n
                Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
                """
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              I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
              For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
              In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
              """
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          +body: "Sure, I would love to see those sources if you find them. Venezuela and Russia, if you would."
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          I can’t find this source again(, when they said that they lacked time to send observers), it wasn’t talked much at the time, but i’m positive it happened, here’s an example of refusal for 2020 though : [theglobeandmail.com/…/article-eu-says-it-wont-sen…](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-eu-says-it-wont-send-observers-to-monitor-venezuelan-election-due-to/)  \n
          Apparently, they’ve agreed to send observers in 2021 : [postguam.com/…/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13…](https://www.postguam.com/the_globe/world/maduro-electoral-observers-from-eu-delegation-of-spies/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13b5cf9ed4e5.html)  \n
          The last time was in 2015, once again at the request of the venezuelan government : [www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en](https://www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en)  \n
          Some people say that the government won’t ask again in 2024 : [reuters.com/…/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-electio…](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-election-observers-2024-vote-lawmaker-2023-07-13/)  \n
          But i’ve clearly overestimated the impact : Venezuela will still be sanctioned and the public opinion will still consider that they’re miscounting the votes. Allowing international observers or not doesn’t change anything in the end, we’ll only be satisfied once the socialist revolution is out, and will continue to accept unsatisfying electoral conditions with our allies(, e.g., in Africa).  \n
          You’ll need to read pro-venezuelans medias to see the other point of view.\n
          \n
          As for Russia, you’ll mostly find articles saying that his disapproval rate is at an all-time high, but [this kind of article](https://scottgehlbach.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/FGMR-Putin.pdf), or [statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-rating-russia/), are confirming that he’s one of the most popular president in the world. I could easily find more sources for this, so the reasoning is that when you’re so overwhelmingly popular there’s no need to miscount the votes in your favor :  \n
          ![](https://i.postimg.cc/CxGfXkCm/Screenshot-2023-12-06-10-56-12-451-org-mozilla-firefox-edit.jpg)\n
          \n
          Are you unsatisfied with the sources or my conclusions ?
          """
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      +body: "Well, the sources are satisfying in that they disprove a lot of what you’re saying. Venezuela was declined once while most of the time observers were sent. And you were unable to find sources for Russia at all."
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    +body: """
      You’re evidently right, but many articles for the 2021 elections(, [1](https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/eu-observers-begin-work-ahead-of-venezuela-elections/), [2](https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20211119-skeptical-opposition-participating-in-venezuela-regional-elections), [3](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/11/23/venezuela-recent-elections-an-improvement-over-past-votes-eu), …, including the one cited), said that it has been 15 years since the EU sent observers.\n
      \n
      In any case i would like to emphasised that this debate isn’t useful : even if westerners systematically sent observers they would still claim that the results are illegitimate because of the overall process(, which deserve some explanations/debates because our own system is far from perfect, and we’re blending the consequences&causes of the sanctions, etc.). I should have deleted this post like i intended at first once i realized that.\n
      \n
      A few more minutes of research wielded these results :\n
      \n
      - EU won’t send observervation mission in Bangladesh : [thedailystar.net/…/eu-wont-send-observeration-mis…](https://www.thedailystar.net/news/bangladesh/news/eu-wont-send-observeration-mission-3424326)\n
      - The United States, European Union, France and Japan say they have no plans to send electoral observers or to provide assistance to Cambodia : [rfa.org/…/election-international-observers-033120…](https://www.rfa.org/english/news/cambodia/election-international-observers-03312023140751.html)\n
      - The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) will not send observers to Russia’s upcoming elections for the first time in nearly three decades : [www.rferl.org/a/…/31393760.html](https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-elections-osce-observers/31393760.html)(, “The insistence of the Russian authorities on limiting the number of observers we could send without any clear pandemic-related restrictions has unfortunately made today’s step unavoidable. The OSCE had been invited to observe the Russian elections, but the number of allowed observers was later restricted to 60 due to what Russian authorities cited as the deteriorating pandemic situation in the country. (…) The OSCE had assessed earlier this year that it needed 80 long-term and 420 short-term observers.”)\n
      - The European Union has scrapped plans to send observers to a parliamentary election in Ethiopia next month : [reuters.com/…/eu-scraps-plan-observe-ethiopia-ele…](https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/eu-scraps-plan-observe-ethiopia-election-2021-05-04)(, criticism of their official reasons here [euobserver.com/opinion/152293](https://euobserver.com/opinion/152293) : « The International Republican Institute and National Democratic Institute sent missions to observe, and the African Union sent 120 observers. Yet the EU decided against sending a delegation, despite promises earlier in the year to do so. (…) The African Union’s observer team has praised the election, as have ambassadors from Sweden and Denmark. », that’s exactly an example of what i’m talking about, with false excuses/pretexts.\n
      \n
      I didn’t write that we refused to send international observers to Russia, but that « i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia », despite « the reasoning that when you’re so overwhelmingly popular there’s no need to miscount the votes in your favor ».  \n
      It appears that we did send international observers(, until 2021), but my point is that it wasn’t necessary, yet we’re still showing suspicions(, e.g. the balloon in front of a c.c.t.v. to take an example).\n
      \n
      I’d just like to end by saying once again that this whole debate is pointless because it doesn’t change anything in the end, whether we systematically refused to send observers, or always sent them while accusing the whole “democratic” process instead(, it’s apparently in-between, but much more the latter than the former, contrary to what i initially thought).  \n
      I should have deleted this post from the start like i first intended once i realised, in the selftext, that « In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it. »\n
      \n
      Sorry if you felt that i wasted your time.
      """
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
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        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
        """
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                “We” meaning the US?\n
                \n
                Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
                """
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              I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
              For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
              In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
              """
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          +body: "Sure, I would love to see those sources if you find them. Venezuela and Russia, if you would."
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          I can’t find this source again(, when they said that they lacked time to send observers), it wasn’t talked much at the time, but i’m positive it happened, here’s an example of refusal for 2020 though : [theglobeandmail.com/…/article-eu-says-it-wont-sen…](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-eu-says-it-wont-send-observers-to-monitor-venezuelan-election-due-to/)  \n
          Apparently, they’ve agreed to send observers in 2021 : [postguam.com/…/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13…](https://www.postguam.com/the_globe/world/maduro-electoral-observers-from-eu-delegation-of-spies/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13b5cf9ed4e5.html)  \n
          The last time was in 2015, once again at the request of the venezuelan government : [www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en](https://www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en)  \n
          Some people say that the government won’t ask again in 2024 : [reuters.com/…/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-electio…](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-election-observers-2024-vote-lawmaker-2023-07-13/)  \n
          But i’ve clearly overestimated the impact : Venezuela will still be sanctioned and the public opinion will still consider that they’re miscounting the votes. Allowing international observers or not doesn’t change anything in the end, we’ll only be satisfied once the socialist revolution is out, and will continue to accept unsatisfying electoral conditions with our allies(, e.g., in Africa).  \n
          You’ll need to read pro-venezuelans medias to see the other point of view.\n
          \n
          As for Russia, you’ll mostly find articles saying that his disapproval rate is at an all-time high, but [this kind of article](https://scottgehlbach.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/FGMR-Putin.pdf), or [statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-rating-russia/), are confirming that he’s one of the most popular president in the world. I could easily find more sources for this, so the reasoning is that when you’re so overwhelmingly popular there’s no need to miscount the votes in your favor :  \n
          ![](https://i.postimg.cc/CxGfXkCm/Screenshot-2023-12-06-10-56-12-451-org-mozilla-firefox-edit.jpg)\n
          \n
          Are you unsatisfied with the sources or my conclusions ?
          """
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      +body: "Well, the sources are satisfying in that they disprove a lot of what you’re saying. Venezuela was declined once while most of the time observers were sent. And you were unable to find sources for Russia at all."
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    +body: """
      You’re evidently right, but many articles for the 2021 elections(, [1](https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/eu-observers-begin-work-ahead-of-venezuela-elections/), [2](https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20211119-skeptical-opposition-participating-in-venezuela-regional-elections), [3](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/11/23/venezuela-recent-elections-an-improvement-over-past-votes-eu), …, including the one cited), said that it has been 15 years since the EU sent observers.\n
      \n
      In any case i would like to emphasised that this debate isn’t useful : even if westerners systematically sent observers they would still claim that the results are illegitimate because of the overall process(, which deserve some explanations/debates because our own system is far from perfect, and we’re blending the consequences&causes of the sanctions, etc.). I should have deleted this post like i intended at first once i realized that.\n
      \n
      A few more minutes of research wielded these results :\n
      \n
      - EU won’t send observervation mission in Bangladesh : [thedailystar.net/…/eu-wont-send-observeration-mis…](https://www.thedailystar.net/news/bangladesh/news/eu-wont-send-observeration-mission-3424326)\n
      - The United States, European Union, France and Japan say they have no plans to send electoral observers or to provide assistance to Cambodia : [rfa.org/…/election-international-observers-033120…](https://www.rfa.org/english/news/cambodia/election-international-observers-03312023140751.html)\n
      - The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) will not send observers to Russia’s upcoming elections for the first time in nearly three decades : [www.rferl.org/a/…/31393760.html](https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-elections-osce-observers/31393760.html)(, “The insistence of the Russian authorities on limiting the number of observers we could send without any clear pandemic-related restrictions has unfortunately made today’s step unavoidable. The OSCE had been invited to observe the Russian elections, but the number of allowed observers was later restricted to 60 due to what Russian authorities cited as the deteriorating pandemic situation in the country. (…) The OSCE had assessed earlier this year that it needed 80 long-term and 420 short-term observers.”)\n
      - The European Union has scrapped plans to send observers to a parliamentary election in Ethiopia next month : [reuters.com/…/eu-scraps-plan-observe-ethiopia-ele…](https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/eu-scraps-plan-observe-ethiopia-election-2021-05-04)(, criticism of their official reasons here [euobserver.com/opinion/152293](https://euobserver.com/opinion/152293) : « The International Republican Institute and National Democratic Institute sent missions to observe, and the African Union sent 120 observers. Yet the EU decided against sending a delegation, despite promises earlier in the year to do so. (…) The African Union’s observer team has praised the election, as have ambassadors from Sweden and Denmark. », that’s exactly an example of what i’m talking about, with false excuses/pretexts.\n
      \n
      I didn’t write that we refused to send international observers to Russia, but that « i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia », despite « the reasoning that when you’re so overwhelmingly popular there’s no need to miscount the votes in your favor ».  \n
      It appears that we did send international observers(, until 2021), but my point is that it wasn’t necessary, yet we’re still showing suspicions(, e.g. the balloon in front of a c.c.t.v. to take an example).\n
      \n
      I’d just like to end by saying once again that this whole debate is pointless because it doesn’t change anything in the end, whether we systematically refused to send observers, or always sent them while accusing the whole “democratic” process instead(, it’s apparently in-between, but much more the latter than the former, contrary to what i initially thought).  \n
      I should have deleted this post from the start like i first intended once i realised, in the selftext, that « In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it. »\n
      \n
      Sorry if you felt that i wasted your time.
      """
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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          5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
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        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
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                “We” meaning the US?\n
                \n
                Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
                """
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              I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
              For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
              In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
              """
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          +body: "Sure, I would love to see those sources if you find them. Venezuela and Russia, if you would."
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          I can’t find this source again(, when they said that they lacked time to send observers), it wasn’t talked much at the time, but i’m positive it happened, here’s an example of refusal for 2020 though : [theglobeandmail.com/…/article-eu-says-it-wont-sen…](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-eu-says-it-wont-send-observers-to-monitor-venezuelan-election-due-to/)  \n
          Apparently, they’ve agreed to send observers in 2021 : [postguam.com/…/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13…](https://www.postguam.com/the_globe/world/maduro-electoral-observers-from-eu-delegation-of-spies/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13b5cf9ed4e5.html)  \n
          The last time was in 2015, once again at the request of the venezuelan government : [www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en](https://www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en)  \n
          Some people say that the government won’t ask again in 2024 : [reuters.com/…/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-electio…](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-election-observers-2024-vote-lawmaker-2023-07-13/)  \n
          But i’ve clearly overestimated the impact : Venezuela will still be sanctioned and the public opinion will still consider that they’re miscounting the votes. Allowing international observers or not doesn’t change anything in the end, we’ll only be satisfied once the socialist revolution is out, and will continue to accept unsatisfying electoral conditions with our allies(, e.g., in Africa).  \n
          You’ll need to read pro-venezuelans medias to see the other point of view.\n
          \n
          As for Russia, you’ll mostly find articles saying that his disapproval rate is at an all-time high, but [this kind of article](https://scottgehlbach.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/FGMR-Putin.pdf), or [statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-rating-russia/), are confirming that he’s one of the most popular president in the world. I could easily find more sources for this, so the reasoning is that when you’re so overwhelmingly popular there’s no need to miscount the votes in your favor :  \n
          ![](https://i.postimg.cc/CxGfXkCm/Screenshot-2023-12-06-10-56-12-451-org-mozilla-firefox-edit.jpg)\n
          \n
          Are you unsatisfied with the sources or my conclusions ?
          """
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      +body: "Well, the sources are satisfying in that they disprove a lot of what you’re saying. Venezuela was declined once while most of the time observers were sent. And you were unable to find sources for Russia at all."
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    +body: """
      You’re evidently right, but many articles for the 2021 elections(, [1](https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/eu-observers-begin-work-ahead-of-venezuela-elections/), [2](https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20211119-skeptical-opposition-participating-in-venezuela-regional-elections), [3](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/11/23/venezuela-recent-elections-an-improvement-over-past-votes-eu), …, including the one cited), said that it has been 15 years since the EU sent observers.\n
      \n
      In any case i would like to emphasised that this debate isn’t useful : even if westerners systematically sent observers they would still claim that the results are illegitimate because of the overall process(, which deserve some explanations/debates because our own system is far from perfect, and we’re blending the consequences&causes of the sanctions, etc.). I should have deleted this post like i intended at first once i realized that.\n
      \n
      A few more minutes of research wielded these results :\n
      \n
      - EU won’t send observervation mission in Bangladesh : [thedailystar.net/…/eu-wont-send-observeration-mis…](https://www.thedailystar.net/news/bangladesh/news/eu-wont-send-observeration-mission-3424326)\n
      - The United States, European Union, France and Japan say they have no plans to send electoral observers or to provide assistance to Cambodia : [rfa.org/…/election-international-observers-033120…](https://www.rfa.org/english/news/cambodia/election-international-observers-03312023140751.html)\n
      - The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) will not send observers to Russia’s upcoming elections for the first time in nearly three decades : [www.rferl.org/a/…/31393760.html](https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-elections-osce-observers/31393760.html)(, “The insistence of the Russian authorities on limiting the number of observers we could send without any clear pandemic-related restrictions has unfortunately made today’s step unavoidable. The OSCE had been invited to observe the Russian elections, but the number of allowed observers was later restricted to 60 due to what Russian authorities cited as the deteriorating pandemic situation in the country. (…) The OSCE had assessed earlier this year that it needed 80 long-term and 420 short-term observers.”)\n
      - The European Union has scrapped plans to send observers to a parliamentary election in Ethiopia next month : [reuters.com/…/eu-scraps-plan-observe-ethiopia-ele…](https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/eu-scraps-plan-observe-ethiopia-election-2021-05-04)(, criticism of their official reasons here [euobserver.com/opinion/152293](https://euobserver.com/opinion/152293) : « The International Republican Institute and National Democratic Institute sent missions to observe, and the African Union sent 120 observers. Yet the EU decided against sending a delegation, despite promises earlier in the year to do so. (…) The African Union’s observer team has praised the election, as have ambassadors from Sweden and Denmark. », that’s exactly an example of what i’m talking about, with false excuses/pretexts.\n
      \n
      I didn’t write that we refused to send international observers to Russia, but that « i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia », despite « the reasoning that when you’re so overwhelmingly popular there’s no need to miscount the votes in your favor ».  \n
      It appears that we did send international observers(, until 2021), but my point is that it wasn’t necessary, yet we’re still showing suspicions(, e.g. the balloon in front of a c.c.t.v. to take an example).\n
      \n
      I’d just like to end by saying once again that this whole debate is pointless because it doesn’t change anything in the end, whether we systematically refused to send observers, or always sent them while accusing the whole “democratic” process instead(, it’s apparently in-between, but much more the latter than the former, contrary to what i initially thought).  \n
      I should have deleted this post from the start like i first intended once i realised, in the selftext, that « In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it. »\n
      \n
      Sorry if you felt that i wasted your time.
      """
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
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        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
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                “We” meaning the US?\n
                \n
                Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
                """
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              I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
              For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
              In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
              """
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          +body: "Sure, I would love to see those sources if you find them. Venezuela and Russia, if you would."
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          I can’t find this source again(, when they said that they lacked time to send observers), it wasn’t talked much at the time, but i’m positive it happened, here’s an example of refusal for 2020 though : [theglobeandmail.com/…/article-eu-says-it-wont-sen…](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-eu-says-it-wont-send-observers-to-monitor-venezuelan-election-due-to/)  \n
          Apparently, they’ve agreed to send observers in 2021 : [postguam.com/…/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13…](https://www.postguam.com/the_globe/world/maduro-electoral-observers-from-eu-delegation-of-spies/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13b5cf9ed4e5.html)  \n
          The last time was in 2015, once again at the request of the venezuelan government : [www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en](https://www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en)  \n
          Some people say that the government won’t ask again in 2024 : [reuters.com/…/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-electio…](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-election-observers-2024-vote-lawmaker-2023-07-13/)  \n
          But i’ve clearly overestimated the impact : Venezuela will still be sanctioned and the public opinion will still consider that they’re miscounting the votes. Allowing international observers or not doesn’t change anything in the end, we’ll only be satisfied once the socialist revolution is out, and will continue to accept unsatisfying electoral conditions with our allies(, e.g., in Africa).  \n
          You’ll need to read pro-venezuelans medias to see the other point of view.\n
          \n
          As for Russia, you’ll mostly find articles saying that his disapproval rate is at an all-time high, but [this kind of article](https://scottgehlbach.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/FGMR-Putin.pdf), or [statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-rating-russia/), are confirming that he’s one of the most popular president in the world. I could easily find more sources for this, so the reasoning is that when you’re so overwhelmingly popular there’s no need to miscount the votes in your favor :  \n
          ![](https://i.postimg.cc/CxGfXkCm/Screenshot-2023-12-06-10-56-12-451-org-mozilla-firefox-edit.jpg)\n
          \n
          Are you unsatisfied with the sources or my conclusions ?
          """
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      +body: "Well, the sources are satisfying in that they disprove a lot of what you’re saying. Venezuela was declined once while most of the time observers were sent. And you were unable to find sources for Russia at all."
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    +body: """
      You’re evidently right, but many articles for the 2021 elections(, [1](https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/eu-observers-begin-work-ahead-of-venezuela-elections/), [2](https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20211119-skeptical-opposition-participating-in-venezuela-regional-elections), [3](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/11/23/venezuela-recent-elections-an-improvement-over-past-votes-eu), …, including the one cited), said that it has been 15 years since the EU sent observers.\n
      \n
      In any case i would like to emphasised that this debate isn’t useful : even if westerners systematically sent observers they would still claim that the results are illegitimate because of the overall process(, which deserve some explanations/debates because our own system is far from perfect, and we’re blending the consequences&causes of the sanctions, etc.). I should have deleted this post like i intended at first once i realized that.\n
      \n
      A few more minutes of research wielded these results :\n
      \n
      - EU won’t send observervation mission in Bangladesh : [thedailystar.net/…/eu-wont-send-observeration-mis…](https://www.thedailystar.net/news/bangladesh/news/eu-wont-send-observeration-mission-3424326)\n
      - The United States, European Union, France and Japan say they have no plans to send electoral observers or to provide assistance to Cambodia : [rfa.org/…/election-international-observers-033120…](https://www.rfa.org/english/news/cambodia/election-international-observers-03312023140751.html)\n
      - The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) will not send observers to Russia’s upcoming elections for the first time in nearly three decades : [www.rferl.org/a/…/31393760.html](https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-elections-osce-observers/31393760.html)(, “The insistence of the Russian authorities on limiting the number of observers we could send without any clear pandemic-related restrictions has unfortunately made today’s step unavoidable. The OSCE had been invited to observe the Russian elections, but the number of allowed observers was later restricted to 60 due to what Russian authorities cited as the deteriorating pandemic situation in the country. (…) The OSCE had assessed earlier this year that it needed 80 long-term and 420 short-term observers.”)\n
      - The European Union has scrapped plans to send observers to a parliamentary election in Ethiopia next month : [reuters.com/…/eu-scraps-plan-observe-ethiopia-ele…](https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/eu-scraps-plan-observe-ethiopia-election-2021-05-04)(, criticism of their official reasons here [euobserver.com/opinion/152293](https://euobserver.com/opinion/152293) : « The International Republican Institute and National Democratic Institute sent missions to observe, and the African Union sent 120 observers. Yet the EU decided against sending a delegation, despite promises earlier in the year to do so. (…) The African Union’s observer team has praised the election, as have ambassadors from Sweden and Denmark. », that’s exactly an example of what i’m talking about, with false excuses/pretexts.\n
      \n
      I didn’t write that we refused to send international observers to Russia, but that « i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia », despite « the reasoning that when you’re so overwhelmingly popular there’s no need to miscount the votes in your favor ».  \n
      It appears that we did send international observers(, until 2021), but my point is that it wasn’t necessary, yet we’re still showing suspicions(, e.g. the balloon in front of a c.c.t.v. to take an example).\n
      \n
      I’d just like to end by saying once again that this whole debate is pointless because it doesn’t change anything in the end, whether we systematically refused to send observers, or always sent them while accusing the whole “democratic” process instead(, it’s apparently in-between, but much more the latter than the former, contrary to what i initially thought).  \n
      I should have deleted this post from the start like i first intended once i realised, in the selftext, that « In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it. »\n
      \n
      Sorry if you felt that i wasted your time.
      """
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
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        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
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                “We” meaning the US?\n
                \n
                Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
                """
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              I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
              For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
              In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
              """
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          +body: "Sure, I would love to see those sources if you find them. Venezuela and Russia, if you would."
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          I can’t find this source again(, when they said that they lacked time to send observers), it wasn’t talked much at the time, but i’m positive it happened, here’s an example of refusal for 2020 though : [theglobeandmail.com/…/article-eu-says-it-wont-sen…](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-eu-says-it-wont-send-observers-to-monitor-venezuelan-election-due-to/)  \n
          Apparently, they’ve agreed to send observers in 2021 : [postguam.com/…/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13…](https://www.postguam.com/the_globe/world/maduro-electoral-observers-from-eu-delegation-of-spies/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13b5cf9ed4e5.html)  \n
          The last time was in 2015, once again at the request of the venezuelan government : [www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en](https://www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en)  \n
          Some people say that the government won’t ask again in 2024 : [reuters.com/…/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-electio…](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-election-observers-2024-vote-lawmaker-2023-07-13/)  \n
          But i’ve clearly overestimated the impact : Venezuela will still be sanctioned and the public opinion will still consider that they’re miscounting the votes. Allowing international observers or not doesn’t change anything in the end, we’ll only be satisfied once the socialist revolution is out, and will continue to accept unsatisfying electoral conditions with our allies(, e.g., in Africa).  \n
          You’ll need to read pro-venezuelans medias to see the other point of view.\n
          \n
          As for Russia, you’ll mostly find articles saying that his disapproval rate is at an all-time high, but [this kind of article](https://scottgehlbach.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/FGMR-Putin.pdf), or [statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-rating-russia/), are confirming that he’s one of the most popular president in the world. I could easily find more sources for this, so the reasoning is that when you’re so overwhelmingly popular there’s no need to miscount the votes in your favor :  \n
          ![](https://i.postimg.cc/CxGfXkCm/Screenshot-2023-12-06-10-56-12-451-org-mozilla-firefox-edit.jpg)\n
          \n
          Are you unsatisfied with the sources or my conclusions ?
          """
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      +body: "Well, the sources are satisfying in that they disprove a lot of what you’re saying. Venezuela was declined once while most of the time observers were sent. And you were unable to find sources for Russia at all."
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    +body: """
      You’re evidently right, but many articles for the 2021 elections(, [1](https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/eu-observers-begin-work-ahead-of-venezuela-elections/), [2](https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20211119-skeptical-opposition-participating-in-venezuela-regional-elections), [3](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/11/23/venezuela-recent-elections-an-improvement-over-past-votes-eu), …, including the one cited), said that it has been 15 years since the EU sent observers.\n
      \n
      In any case i would like to emphasised that this debate isn’t useful : even if westerners systematically sent observers they would still claim that the results are illegitimate because of the overall process(, which deserve some explanations/debates because our own system is far from perfect, and we’re blending the consequences&causes of the sanctions, etc.). I should have deleted this post like i intended at first once i realized that.\n
      \n
      A few more minutes of research wielded these results :\n
      \n
      - EU won’t send observervation mission in Bangladesh : [thedailystar.net/…/eu-wont-send-observeration-mis…](https://www.thedailystar.net/news/bangladesh/news/eu-wont-send-observeration-mission-3424326)\n
      - The United States, European Union, France and Japan say they have no plans to send electoral observers or to provide assistance to Cambodia : [rfa.org/…/election-international-observers-033120…](https://www.rfa.org/english/news/cambodia/election-international-observers-03312023140751.html)\n
      - The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) will not send observers to Russia’s upcoming elections for the first time in nearly three decades : [www.rferl.org/a/…/31393760.html](https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-elections-osce-observers/31393760.html)(, “The insistence of the Russian authorities on limiting the number of observers we could send without any clear pandemic-related restrictions has unfortunately made today’s step unavoidable. The OSCE had been invited to observe the Russian elections, but the number of allowed observers was later restricted to 60 due to what Russian authorities cited as the deteriorating pandemic situation in the country. (…) The OSCE had assessed earlier this year that it needed 80 long-term and 420 short-term observers.”)\n
      - The European Union has scrapped plans to send observers to a parliamentary election in Ethiopia next month : [reuters.com/…/eu-scraps-plan-observe-ethiopia-ele…](https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/eu-scraps-plan-observe-ethiopia-election-2021-05-04)(, criticism of their official reasons here [euobserver.com/opinion/152293](https://euobserver.com/opinion/152293) : « The International Republican Institute and National Democratic Institute sent missions to observe, and the African Union sent 120 observers. Yet the EU decided against sending a delegation, despite promises earlier in the year to do so. (…) The African Union’s observer team has praised the election, as have ambassadors from Sweden and Denmark. », that’s exactly an example of what i’m talking about, with false excuses/pretexts.\n
      \n
      I didn’t write that we refused to send international observers to Russia, but that « i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia », despite « the reasoning that when you’re so overwhelmingly popular there’s no need to miscount the votes in your favor ».  \n
      It appears that we did send international observers(, until 2021), but my point is that it wasn’t necessary, yet we’re still showing suspicions(, e.g. the balloon in front of a c.c.t.v. to take an example).\n
      \n
      I’d just like to end by saying once again that this whole debate is pointless because it doesn’t change anything in the end, whether we systematically refused to send observers, or always sent them while accusing the whole “democratic” process instead(, it’s apparently in-between, but much more the latter than the former, contrary to what i initially thought).  \n
      I should have deleted this post from the start like i first intended once i realised, in the selftext, that « In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it. »\n
      \n
      Sorry if you felt that i wasted your time.
      """
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          1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
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        I’ve seen it for Venezuela and Syria, but i’m sure i could find this for quite a lot of other countries.  \n
        We’re usually saying that it would legitimize these elections, and are asking instead that the opponents boycott them. We can continue to criticize the biases surrounding the votes instead of the votes themselves if that’s the problem.  \n
        Some leaders may believe that the processus of elections is biased because unjust external pressures are putting a strain on the country and strengthening the opposition ; but, despite that, some of them are still asking for international observers, which could be an occasion to seize, instead of refusing to send them yet accusing them of cheating.  \n
        So i wonder if i’m missing something by thinking that we don’t want to legitimate the whole process by counting the votes.\n
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        For them it seems like it would be the same if they’re already asking, but for us it could open our societies to accusations of double standards since it could be argued that our own elections aren’t perfect.  \n
        In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it.\n
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        If you had the initial thought that international observers won’t prevent cheating : they would count in double the votes, with the venezuelans of their area, and have everything under their eyes from the beginning of the vote to the end of the official count, so i don’t see how cheating would be possible.  \n
        For now, our version is that they’re miscounting the votes, yet we’re refusing to send such observers.
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                “We” meaning the US?\n
                \n
                Which country is asking us to send observers and we’re saying no?
                """
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              I’m 100% sure for Venezuela and could find you the source, Europe said they didn’t have time despite being asked more than 6 months prior to the elections(, and still having 1-2 months ahead of them).  \n
              For Syria i’m almost certain, but i think that i could find the same for Cuba, probably Zimbabwe and in any case i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia, even if the surveys proved that V.Putin’s support was/is legitimate, on which country would you like sources ?  \n
              In general, every government qualified as a “regime” is considered as cheating at elections, i don’t see an exception.
              """
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          +body: "Sure, I would love to see those sources if you find them. Venezuela and Russia, if you would."
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          I can’t find this source again(, when they said that they lacked time to send observers), it wasn’t talked much at the time, but i’m positive it happened, here’s an example of refusal for 2020 though : [theglobeandmail.com/…/article-eu-says-it-wont-sen…](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-eu-says-it-wont-send-observers-to-monitor-venezuelan-election-due-to/)  \n
          Apparently, they’ve agreed to send observers in 2021 : [postguam.com/…/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13…](https://www.postguam.com/the_globe/world/maduro-electoral-observers-from-eu-delegation-of-spies/article_8df8438a-50d1-11ec-b8be-13b5cf9ed4e5.html)  \n
          The last time was in 2015, once again at the request of the venezuelan government : [www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en](https://www.eeas.europa.eu/node/26227_en)  \n
          Some people say that the government won’t ask again in 2024 : [reuters.com/…/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-electio…](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/venezuela-will-not-allow-eu-election-observers-2024-vote-lawmaker-2023-07-13/)  \n
          But i’ve clearly overestimated the impact : Venezuela will still be sanctioned and the public opinion will still consider that they’re miscounting the votes. Allowing international observers or not doesn’t change anything in the end, we’ll only be satisfied once the socialist revolution is out, and will continue to accept unsatisfying electoral conditions with our allies(, e.g., in Africa).  \n
          You’ll need to read pro-venezuelans medias to see the other point of view.\n
          \n
          As for Russia, you’ll mostly find articles saying that his disapproval rate is at an all-time high, but [this kind of article](https://scottgehlbach.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/FGMR-Putin.pdf), or [statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-rating-russia/), are confirming that he’s one of the most popular president in the world. I could easily find more sources for this, so the reasoning is that when you’re so overwhelmingly popular there’s no need to miscount the votes in your favor :  \n
          ![](https://i.postimg.cc/CxGfXkCm/Screenshot-2023-12-06-10-56-12-451-org-mozilla-firefox-edit.jpg)\n
          \n
          Are you unsatisfied with the sources or my conclusions ?
          """
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      +body: "Well, the sources are satisfying in that they disprove a lot of what you’re saying. Venezuela was declined once while most of the time observers were sent. And you were unable to find sources for Russia at all."
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    +body: """
      You’re evidently right, but many articles for the 2021 elections(, [1](https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/eu-observers-begin-work-ahead-of-venezuela-elections/), [2](https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20211119-skeptical-opposition-participating-in-venezuela-regional-elections), [3](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/11/23/venezuela-recent-elections-an-improvement-over-past-votes-eu), …, including the one cited), said that it has been 15 years since the EU sent observers.\n
      \n
      In any case i would like to emphasised that this debate isn’t useful : even if westerners systematically sent observers they would still claim that the results are illegitimate because of the overall process(, which deserve some explanations/debates because our own system is far from perfect, and we’re blending the consequences&causes of the sanctions, etc.). I should have deleted this post like i intended at first once i realized that.\n
      \n
      A few more minutes of research wielded these results :\n
      \n
      - EU won’t send observervation mission in Bangladesh : [thedailystar.net/…/eu-wont-send-observeration-mis…](https://www.thedailystar.net/news/bangladesh/news/eu-wont-send-observeration-mission-3424326)\n
      - The United States, European Union, France and Japan say they have no plans to send electoral observers or to provide assistance to Cambodia : [rfa.org/…/election-international-observers-033120…](https://www.rfa.org/english/news/cambodia/election-international-observers-03312023140751.html)\n
      - The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) will not send observers to Russia’s upcoming elections for the first time in nearly three decades : [www.rferl.org/a/…/31393760.html](https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-elections-osce-observers/31393760.html)(, “The insistence of the Russian authorities on limiting the number of observers we could send without any clear pandemic-related restrictions has unfortunately made today’s step unavoidable. The OSCE had been invited to observe the Russian elections, but the number of allowed observers was later restricted to 60 due to what Russian authorities cited as the deteriorating pandemic situation in the country. (…) The OSCE had assessed earlier this year that it needed 80 long-term and 420 short-term observers.”)\n
      - The European Union has scrapped plans to send observers to a parliamentary election in Ethiopia next month : [reuters.com/…/eu-scraps-plan-observe-ethiopia-ele…](https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/eu-scraps-plan-observe-ethiopia-election-2021-05-04)(, criticism of their official reasons here [euobserver.com/opinion/152293](https://euobserver.com/opinion/152293) : « The International Republican Institute and National Democratic Institute sent missions to observe, and the African Union sent 120 observers. Yet the EU decided against sending a delegation, despite promises earlier in the year to do so. (…) The African Union’s observer team has praised the election, as have ambassadors from Sweden and Denmark. », that’s exactly an example of what i’m talking about, with false excuses/pretexts.\n
      \n
      I didn’t write that we refused to send international observers to Russia, but that « i’ve read such suspicions about Russia and Iran, we even showed videos of a ballon in front of the c.c.t.v. for Russia », despite « the reasoning that when you’re so overwhelmingly popular there’s no need to miscount the votes in your favor ».  \n
      It appears that we did send international observers(, until 2021), but my point is that it wasn’t necessary, yet we’re still showing suspicions(, e.g. the balloon in front of a c.c.t.v. to take an example).\n
      \n
      I’d just like to end by saying once again that this whole debate is pointless because it doesn’t change anything in the end, whether we systematically refused to send observers, or always sent them while accusing the whole “democratic” process instead(, it’s apparently in-between, but much more the latter than the former, contrary to what i initially thought).  \n
      I should have deleted this post from the start like i first intended once i realised, in the selftext, that « In the end sanctions would stay in place so it wouldn’t be useful in any way, and doesn’t matter, i should probably delete this post but i’m leaving it in the off-chance that some find an interest in it. »\n
      \n
      Sorry if you felt that i wasted your time.
      """
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    +ranking: 0
    +commentCount: 0
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/7051300"
    +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703216340 {#4581
      date: 2023-12-22 04:39:00.0 +01:00
    }
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701879223 {#4582
      date: 2023-12-06 17:13:43.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  +nestedComments: []
  +level: 6
  +view: "tree"
  -entryCommentRepository: App\Repository\EntryCommentRepository {#556 …}
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -security: Symfony\Bundle\SecurityBundle\Security {#1101 …}
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
}
settings_row_enum App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowEnumComponent 18.0 MiB 0.21 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Sidebar position"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_GENERAL_SIDEBAR_POSITION"
  "values" => [
    [
      "name" => "Left"
      "value" => "LEFT"
    ]
    [
      "name" => "Right"
      "value" => "RIGHT"
    ]
  ]
  "defaultValue" => "RIGHT"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowEnumComponent {#19381
  +label: "Sidebar position"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_GENERAL_SIDEBAR_POSITION"
  +values: [
    [
      "name" => "Left"
      "value" => "LEFT"
    ]
    [
      "name" => "Right"
      "value" => "RIGHT"
    ]
  ]
  +defaultValue: "RIGHT"
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 18.0 MiB 0.19 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Dynamic lists"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_GENERAL_DYNAMIC_LISTS"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#19445
  +label: "Dynamic lists"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_GENERAL_DYNAMIC_LISTS"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 18.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Rounded edges"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_GENERAL_ROUNDED_EDGES"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#19510
  +label: "Rounded edges"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_GENERAL_ROUNDED_EDGES"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 18.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Infinite scrolling"
  "help" => "Automatically load more content when you reach the bottom of the page."
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_GENERAL_INFINITE_SCROLL"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#19566
  +label: "Infinite scrolling"
  +help: "Automatically load more content when you reach the bottom of the page."
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_GENERAL_INFINITE_SCROLL"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 18.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Sticky navbar"
  "help" => "The navbar will stick to the top of the page when you scroll down."
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_GENERAL_FIXED_NAVBAR"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#19625
  +label: "Sticky navbar"
  +help: "The navbar will stick to the top of the page when you scroll down."
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_GENERAL_FIXED_NAVBAR"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 18.0 MiB 0.15 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show top bar"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_GENERAL_TOPBAR"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#19681
  +label: "Show top bar"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_GENERAL_TOPBAR"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 18.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Turbo mode (experimental)"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_GENERAL_TURBO"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#19737
  +label: "Turbo mode (experimental)"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_GENERAL_TURBO"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
user_settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\UserSettingsRowSwitchComponent 18.0 MiB 0.24 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Mark new comments"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_MARK_NEW_COMMENTS"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserSettingsRowSwitchComponent {#19795
  +label: "Mark new comments"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_MARK_NEW_COMMENTS"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 18.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show "Support Us" block"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_GENERAL_SUPPORT_US_BLOCK"
  "defaultValue" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#19858
  +label: "Show "Support Us" block"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_GENERAL_SUPPORT_US_BLOCK"
  +defaultValue: true
  +reloadRequired: true
}
user_settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\UserSettingsRowSwitchComponent 18.0 MiB 0.16 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show subscribed users"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_SUB_CHANNEL_USERS"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserSettingsRowSwitchComponent {#19916
  +label: "Show subscribed users"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_SUB_CHANNEL_USERS"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
user_settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\UserSettingsRowSwitchComponent 18.0 MiB 0.17 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show subscribed magazines"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_SUB_CHANNEL_MAGAZINES"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserSettingsRowSwitchComponent {#19972
  +label: "Show subscribed magazines"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_SUB_CHANNEL_MAGAZINES"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
user_settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\UserSettingsRowSwitchComponent 18.0 MiB 0.21 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show subscribed domains"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_SUB_CHANNEL_DOMAINS"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserSettingsRowSwitchComponent {#20028
  +label: "Show subscribed domains"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_SUB_CHANNEL_DOMAINS"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 18.0 MiB 0.20 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Auto media preview"
  "help" => "Automatically expand media previews."
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_ENTRIES_SHOW_PREVIEW"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#20084
  +label: "Auto media preview"
  +help: "Automatically expand media previews."
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_ENTRIES_SHOW_PREVIEW"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 18.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Compact view"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_ENTRIES_COMPACT"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#20140
  +label: "Compact view"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_ENTRIES_COMPACT"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 18.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show users’ avatars"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_ENTRIES_SHOW_USERS_AVATARS"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#20196
  +label: "Show users’ avatars"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_ENTRIES_SHOW_USERS_AVATARS"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 18.0 MiB 0.25 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show magazines’ icons"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_ENTRIES_SHOW_MAGAZINES_ICONS"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#20252
  +label: "Show magazines’ icons"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_ENTRIES_SHOW_MAGAZINES_ICONS"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 18.0 MiB 0.16 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show thumbnails"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_ENTRIES_SHOW_THUMBNAILS"
  "defaultValue" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#20308
  +label: "Show thumbnails"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_ENTRIES_SHOW_THUMBNAILS"
  +defaultValue: true
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 18.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Auto media preview"
  "help" => "Automatically expand media previews."
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_POSTS_SHOW_PREVIEW"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#20364
  +label: "Auto media preview"
  +help: "Automatically expand media previews."
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_POSTS_SHOW_PREVIEW"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 18.0 MiB 0.15 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show users’ avatars"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_POSTS_SHOW_USERS_AVATARS"
  "defaultValue" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#20420
  +label: "Show users’ avatars"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_POSTS_SHOW_USERS_AVATARS"
  +defaultValue: true
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_enum App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowEnumComponent 18.0 MiB 0.17 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Comment reply position"
  "help" => "Display the comment reply form either at the top or bottom of the page. When 'infinite scroll' is enabled the position will always appear at the top."
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_COMMENTS_REPLY_POSITION"
  "values" => [
    [
      "name" => "top"
      "value" => "TOP"
    ]
    [
      "name" => "bottom"
      "value" => "BOTTOM"
    ]
  ]
  "defaultValue" => "TOP"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowEnumComponent {#20476
  +label: "Comment reply position"
  +help: "Display the comment reply form either at the top or bottom of the page. When 'infinite scroll' is enabled the position will always appear at the top."
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_COMMENTS_REPLY_POSITION"
  +values: [
    [
      "name" => "top"
      "value" => "TOP"
    ]
    [
      "name" => "bottom"
      "value" => "BOTTOM"
    ]
  ]
  +defaultValue: "TOP"
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 18.0 MiB 0.15 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show Comment Avatars"
  "help" => "Display/hide user avatars when viewing comments on a single thread or post."
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_COMMENTS_SHOW_USER_AVATAR"
  "defaultValue" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#20534
  +label: "Show Comment Avatars"
  +help: "Display/hide user avatars when viewing comments on a single thread or post."
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_COMMENTS_SHOW_USER_AVATAR"
  +defaultValue: true
  +reloadRequired: true
}
user_actions App\Twig\Components\UserActionsComponent 18.0 MiB 0.46 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
    +username: "@sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: "There’s not much to learn by talking with people that already agree with you"
    +lastActive: DateTime @1719991224 {#1519
      date: 2024-07-03 09:20:24.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1631 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1713 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1710 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1742 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1659 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1747 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1473 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1750 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1493 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1778 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1627 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1755 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1421 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1447 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1450 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1462 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1427 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1437 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1430 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1463 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1699 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1690 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1696 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1694 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1743 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1676 …}
    -id: 83255
    -password: "$2y$13$ZZzyPcHzEpm9cPLReoRR8up2XdbOOnjqqvtRYtbNsyNUGTRCnNrLe"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1679 …}
    +apId: "sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemm.ee/u/sousmerde_retardatr"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemm.ee/u/sousmerde_retardatr"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemm.ee/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemm.ee"
    +apPreferredUsername: "sousmerde_retardatr"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1725957135 {#1515
      date: 2024-09-10 10:32:15.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703010578 {#1518
      date: 2023-12-19 19:29:38.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserActionsComponent {#20611
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
    +username: "@sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: "There’s not much to learn by talking with people that already agree with you"
    +lastActive: DateTime @1719991224 {#1519
      date: 2024-07-03 09:20:24.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1631 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1713 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1710 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1742 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1659 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1747 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1473 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1750 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1493 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1778 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1627 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1755 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1421 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1447 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1450 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1462 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1427 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1437 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1430 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1463 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1699 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1690 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1696 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1694 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1743 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1676 …}
    -id: 83255
    -password: "$2y$13$ZZzyPcHzEpm9cPLReoRR8up2XdbOOnjqqvtRYtbNsyNUGTRCnNrLe"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1679 …}
    +apId: "sousmerde_retardatr@lemm.ee"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemm.ee/u/sousmerde_retardatr"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemm.ee/u/sousmerde_retardatr"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemm.ee/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemm.ee"
    +apPreferredUsername: "sousmerde_retardatr"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1725957135 {#1515
      date: 2024-09-10 10:32:15.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703010578 {#1518
      date: 2023-12-19 19:29:38.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 18.0 MiB 0.15 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1701803459 {#2402
    date: 2023-12-05 20:10:59.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#20672
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1701803459 {#2402
    date: 2023-12-05 20:10:59.0 +01:00
  }
}
magazine_box App\Twig\Components\MagazineBoxComponent 18.0 MiB 15.16 ms
Input props
[
  "magazine" => App\Entity\Magazine {#265
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
      -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      **Rules: (interactive)**\n
      ------------------------\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
      \n
      Partnered Communities:\n
      ----------------------\n
      \n
      [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 1
    +entryCount: 1179
    +entryCommentCount: 42676
    +postCount: 3
    +postCommentCount: 67
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729583245 {#275
      date: 2024-10-22 09:47:25.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#237 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#222 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#180 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#138 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#200 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#117 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#103 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#81 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#71 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1346 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1823 …}
    -id: 49
    +apId: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmy"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmy"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmy/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
    +apPreferredUsername: "asklemmy"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1729583301 {#269
      date: 2024-10-22 09:48:21.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697177027 {#271
      date: 2023-10-13 08:03:47.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "showSectionTitle" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\MagazineBoxComponent {#20728
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
      -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      **Rules: (interactive)**\n
      ------------------------\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
      \n
      Partnered Communities:\n
      ----------------------\n
      \n
      [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 1
    +entryCount: 1179
    +entryCommentCount: 42676
    +postCount: 3
    +postCommentCount: 67
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729583245 {#275
      date: 2024-10-22 09:47:25.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#237 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#222 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#180 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#138 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#200 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#117 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#103 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#81 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#71 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1346 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1823 …}
    -id: 49
    +apId: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmy"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmy"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmy/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
    +apPreferredUsername: "asklemmy"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1729583301 {#269
      date: 2024-10-22 09:48:21.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697177027 {#271
      date: 2023-10-13 08:03:47.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +showCover: true
  +showDescription: true
  +showRules: true
  +showSubscribeButton: true
  +showInfo: true
  +showMeta: true
  +showSectionTitle: true
  +stretchedLink: true
}
magazine_sub App\Twig\Components\MagazineSubComponent 18.0 MiB 6.65 ms
Input props
[
  "magazine" => App\Entity\Magazine {#265
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
      -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      **Rules: (interactive)**\n
      ------------------------\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
      \n
      Partnered Communities:\n
      ----------------------\n
      \n
      [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 1
    +entryCount: 1179
    +entryCommentCount: 42676
    +postCount: 3
    +postCommentCount: 67
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729583245 {#275
      date: 2024-10-22 09:47:25.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#237 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#222 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#180 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#138 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#200 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#117 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#103 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#81 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#71 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1346 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1823 …}
    -id: 49
    +apId: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmy"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmy"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmy/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
    +apPreferredUsername: "asklemmy"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1729583301 {#269
      date: 2024-10-22 09:48:21.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697177027 {#271
      date: 2023-10-13 08:03:47.0 +02:00
    }
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\MagazineSubComponent {#20786
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
      -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      **Rules: (interactive)**\n
      ------------------------\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
      \n
      Partnered Communities:\n
      ----------------------\n
      \n
      [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 1
    +entryCount: 1179
    +entryCommentCount: 42676
    +postCount: 3
    +postCommentCount: 67
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729583245 {#275
      date: 2024-10-22 09:47:25.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#237 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#222 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#180 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#138 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#200 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#117 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#103 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#81 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#71 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1346 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1823 …}
    -id: 49
    +apId: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmy"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmy"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmy/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
    +apPreferredUsername: "asklemmy"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1729583301 {#269
      date: 2024-10-22 09:48:21.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697177027 {#271
      date: 2023-10-13 08:03:47.0 +02:00
    }
  }
}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 18.0 MiB 0.26 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1697177027 {#271
    date: 2023-10-13 08:03:47.0 +02:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#21015
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1697177027 {#271
    date: 2023-10-13 08:03:47.0 +02:00
  }
}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 18.0 MiB 0.66 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#21074
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "kbin@j0h.nl"
    +username: "Sprite_tm"
    +roles: [
      "ROLE_ADMIN"
    ]
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: "Hi! I'm Sprite_tm. You may know me from sites like https://spritesmods.com."
    +lastActive: DateTime @1707547382 {#21121
      date: 2024-02-10 07:43:02.0 +01:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
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     …2
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#21092
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      ZIFMt98rHx6BsZx/DnSFDQ8iqrKF3u+OOv7s6j+8odz4Rq53+16vMev5VUMOPq+E\r\n
      aQn8SDKkOjZzwb9QGB9bXS5s9yyj4pLyggQ0O5S2ugZjUcmCecNpktN8bUR3I9VQ\r\n
      KWkcQa9yCpidp/JYrQtlbqAPiIzptA4T4RNh+F6pKbmw7hNMIPipPzbQezEMaBOn\r\n
      Cgb38EldyAVGjCzRGfhu9SNU9B03bg==\r\n
      -----END PRIVATE KEY-----
      """
    +publicKey: """
      -----BEGIN PUBLIC KEY-----\r\n
      MIICIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAg8AMIICCgKCAgEA5XnqLc+UwYjJQmLCWCR1\r\n
      TcY7577dKrEANvNge73agU2wEXw+PYij4jCMIFNsoQiNKE0kMHNmcvQEPt9a8Jrw\r\n
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      2cUjwj5YeRtS29K+O7Iiqv9JPWEbmtABbFYNHYan7sLG+hvR8eRInLj7LjiI1yDQ\r\n
      U45ZxOEnTM9GSbe2y48JSnUCAwEAAQ==\r\n
      -----END PUBLIC KEY-----
      """
    +apFetchedAt: null
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1686560440 {#21122
      date: 2023-06-12 11:00:40.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +showAvatar: true
}
related_magazines App\Twig\Components\RelatedMagazinesComponent 20.0 MiB 4.85 ms
Input props
[
  "magazine" => "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
  "tag" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\RelatedMagazinesComponent {#21283
  +limit: 4
  +tag: null
  +magazine: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
  +type: "magazine"
  +title: "related_magazines"
  +refreshedRandom: false
  -repository: App\Repository\MagazineRepository {#333 …}
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
}
active_users App\Twig\Components\ActiveUsersComponent 20.0 MiB 0.23 ms
Input props
[
  "magazine" => App\Entity\Magazine {#265
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
      -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      **Rules: (interactive)**\n
      ------------------------\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
      \n
      Partnered Communities:\n
      ----------------------\n
      \n
      [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 1
    +entryCount: 1179
    +entryCommentCount: 42676
    +postCount: 3
    +postCommentCount: 67
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729583245 {#275
      date: 2024-10-22 09:47:25.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#237 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#222 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#180 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#138 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#200 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#117 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#103 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#81 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#71 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1346 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1823 …}
    -id: 49
    +apId: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmy"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmy"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmy/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
    +apPreferredUsername: "asklemmy"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1729583301 {#269
      date: 2024-10-22 09:48:21.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697177027 {#271
      date: 2023-10-13 08:03:47.0 +02:00
    }
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\ActiveUsersComponent {#21370
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
      -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      **Rules: (interactive)**\n
      ------------------------\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
      \n
      Partnered Communities:\n
      ----------------------\n
      \n
      [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 1
    +entryCount: 1179
    +entryCommentCount: 42676
    +postCount: 3
    +postCommentCount: 67
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729583245 {#275
      date: 2024-10-22 09:47:25.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#237 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#222 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#180 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#138 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#200 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#117 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#103 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#81 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#71 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1346 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1823 …}
    -id: 49
    +apId: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmy"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmy"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmy/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
    +apPreferredUsername: "asklemmy"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1729583301 {#269
      date: 2024-10-22 09:48:21.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697177027 {#271
      date: 2023-10-13 08:03:47.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  -userRepository: App\Repository\UserRepository {#603 …}
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
}
related_categories App\Twig\Components\RelatedCategoriesComponent 20.0 MiB 1.42 ms
Input props
[
  "magazine" => "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
  "tag" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\RelatedCategoriesComponent {#21429
  +limit: 4
  +tag: null
  +magazine: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
  +type: "related"
  +title: "related_categories"
  +refreshedRandom: false
  -repository: App\Repository\CategoryRepository {#21430 …}
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
}
related_posts App\Twig\Components\RelatedPostsComponent 20.0 MiB 2.23 ms
Input props
[
  "magazine" => "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
  "tag" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\RelatedPostsComponent {#21500
  +limit: 4
  +tag: null
  +magazine: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
  +type: "magazine"
  +post: null
  +title: "related_posts"
  +refreshedRandom: false
  -repository: App\Repository\PostRepository {#21499 …}
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -mentionManager: App\Service\MentionManager {#389 …}
}
related_entries App\Twig\Components\RelatedEntriesComponent 20.0 MiB 1.90 ms
Input props
[
  "magazine" => "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
  "tag" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\RelatedEntriesComponent {#21569
  +limit: 4
  +tag: null
  +magazine: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
  +type: "magazine"
  +entry: null
  +title: "related_entries"
  +refreshedRandom: false
  -repository: App\Repository\EntryRepository {#270 …}
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -mentionManager: App\Service\MentionManager {#389 …}
}
support_us_block App\Twig\Components\SupportUsBlock 20.0 MiB 0.22 ms
Input props
[]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SupportUsBlock {#21638
  +subject: ? App\Entity\Contracts\VotableInterface
  +url: ? string
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -partnerBlockRepository: App\Repository\PartnerBlockRepository {#21639 …}
}
featured_magazines App\Twig\Components\FeaturedMagazinesComponent 20.0 MiB 0.72 ms
Input props
[
  "magazine" => App\Entity\Magazine {#265
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
      -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      **Rules: (interactive)**\n
      ------------------------\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
      \n
      Partnered Communities:\n
      ----------------------\n
      \n
      [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 1
    +entryCount: 1179
    +entryCommentCount: 42676
    +postCount: 3
    +postCommentCount: 67
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729583245 {#275
      date: 2024-10-22 09:47:25.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#237 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#222 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#180 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#138 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#200 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#117 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#103 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#81 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#71 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1346 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1823 …}
    -id: 49
    +apId: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmy"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmy"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmy/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
    +apPreferredUsername: "asklemmy"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1729583301 {#269
      date: 2024-10-22 09:48:21.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697177027 {#271
      date: 2023-10-13 08:03:47.0 +02:00
    }
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\FeaturedMagazinesComponent {#21727
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
      -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      **Rules: (interactive)**\n
      ------------------------\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
      \n
      Partnered Communities:\n
      ----------------------\n
      \n
      [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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