Symfony Profiler

Security

Token

There is no security token.

Firewall

main Name

Security enabled

Stateless

Configuration

Key	Value
provider	security.user.provider.concrete.app_user_provider
context	main
entry_point	App\Security\KbinAuthenticator
user_checker	App\Security\UserChecker
access_denied_handler	(none)
access_denied_url	(none)
authenticators	[`"two_factor" "remember_me" "App\Security\KbinAuthenticator" "App\Security\FacebookAuthenticator" "App\Security\GoogleAuthenticator" "App\Security\GithubAuthenticator" "App\Security\KeycloakAuthenticator"`]

Listeners

Listener	Duration	Response
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ChannelListener {#723`-map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …} -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …} -httpPort: 80 -httpsPort: 443`}	0.00 ms	(none)
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ContextListener {#706-tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\TokenStorage {#1017 …} -sessionKey: "_security_main" -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …} -userProviders: Symfony\Component\DependencyInjection\Argument\RewindableGenerator {#705 …} -dispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …} -registered: false -trustResolver: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authentication\AuthenticationTrustResolver {#780 …} -sessionTrackerEnabler: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage::enableUsageTracking(): void {#703 …}}	0.23 ms	(none)
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AuthenticatorManagerListener {#584`-authenticatorManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Authentication\AuthenticatorManager {#595 …}`}	0.00 ms	(none)
Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Http\Firewall\TwoFactorAccessListener {#582`-twoFactorFirewallConfig: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\TwoFactor\TwoFactorFirewallConfig {#842 …} -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …} -twoFactorAccessDecider: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\TwoFactorAccessDecider {#581 …}`}	0.04 ms	(none)
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AccessListener {#579`-tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …} -accessDecisionManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\TraceableAccessDecisionManager {#937 …} -map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …}`}	0.00 ms	(none)
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\LogoutListener {#786`-tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …} -options: [ "csrf_parameter" => "_csrf_token" "csrf_token_id" => "logout" "logout_path" => "app_logout" ] -httpUtils: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\HttpUtils {#841 …} -csrfTokenManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Csrf\CsrfTokenManager {#1015 …} -eventDispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …}`}	0.00 ms	(none)

Authenticators

No authenticators have been recorded. Check previous profiles on your authentication endpoint.

Access Decision

affirmative Strategy


"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\AuthenticatedVoter"
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\ExpressionVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"

#	Voter class
1	"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\AuthenticatedVoter"
2	"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
3	"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
4	"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\ExpressionVoter"
5	"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
6	"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
7	"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
8	"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
9	"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
10	"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
11	"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
12	"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
13	"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
14	"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"

Access decision log


null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\Entry {#2388
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1943 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#266
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#247 …}
    +name: "memes@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "memes"
    +description: """
      #### Rules:\n
      \n
      1. Be civil and nice.\n
      2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you *have* to.
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 1
    +entryCount: 5926
    +entryCommentCount: 65073
    +postCount: 25
    +postCommentCount: 152
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729583092 {#276
      date: 2024-10-22 09:44:52.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#238 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#234 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#223 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#181 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#139 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#201 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#118 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#82 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#72 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#61 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1820 …}
    -id: 38
    +apId: "memes@lemmy.ml"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.ml/c/memes"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/c/memes"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/c/memes/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.ml"
    +apPreferredUsername: "memes"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728572889 {#270
      date: 2024-10-10 17:08:09.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1696428223 {#272
      date: 2023-10-04 16:03:43.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#1962 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1924 …}
  +slug: "We-ll-see"
  +title: "We’ll see"
  +url: "https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/edf9fcc6-4eff-4ad6-98fd-8102f77f13cc.png"
  +body: null
  +type: "image"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: true
  +commentCount: 15
  +favouriteCount: 805
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1702397530 {#2410
    date: 2023-12-12 17:12:10.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1886 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1973 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1948 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1927 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2442 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2440 …}
  +children: []
  -id: 21760
  -titleTs: "'ll':2 'see':3"
  -bodyTs: null
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1702452349
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/post/10878543"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1702365949 {#1850
    date: 2023-12-12 08:25:49.0 +01:00
  }
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\Entry {#2388
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1943 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#266
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#247 …}
    +name: "memes@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "memes"
    +description: """
      #### Rules:\n
      \n
      1. Be civil and nice.\n
      2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you *have* to.
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 1
    +entryCount: 5926
    +entryCommentCount: 65073
    +postCount: 25
    +postCommentCount: 152
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729583092 {#276
      date: 2024-10-22 09:44:52.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#238 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#234 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#223 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#181 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#139 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#201 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#118 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#82 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#72 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#61 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1820 …}
    -id: 38
    +apId: "memes@lemmy.ml"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.ml/c/memes"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/c/memes"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/c/memes/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.ml"
    +apPreferredUsername: "memes"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728572889 {#270
      date: 2024-10-10 17:08:09.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1696428223 {#272
      date: 2023-10-04 16:03:43.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#1962 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1924 …}
  +slug: "We-ll-see"
  +title: "We’ll see"
  +url: "https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/edf9fcc6-4eff-4ad6-98fd-8102f77f13cc.png"
  +body: null
  +type: "image"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: true
  +commentCount: 15
  +favouriteCount: 805
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1702397530 {#2410
    date: 2023-12-12 17:12:10.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1886 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1973 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1948 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1927 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2442 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2440 …}
  +children: []
  -id: 21760
  -titleTs: "'ll':2 'see':3"
  -bodyTs: null
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1702452349
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/post/10878543"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1702365949 {#1850
    date: 2023-12-12 08:25:49.0 +01:00
  }
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\Entry {#2388
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1943 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#266
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#247 …}
    +name: "memes@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "memes"
    +description: """
      #### Rules:\n
      \n
      1. Be civil and nice.\n
      2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you *have* to.
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 1
    +entryCount: 5926
    +entryCommentCount: 65073
    +postCount: 25
    +postCommentCount: 152
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729583092 {#276
      date: 2024-10-22 09:44:52.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#238 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#234 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#223 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#181 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#139 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#201 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#118 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#82 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#72 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#61 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1820 …}
    -id: 38
    +apId: "memes@lemmy.ml"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.ml/c/memes"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/c/memes"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/c/memes/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.ml"
    +apPreferredUsername: "memes"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728572889 {#270
      date: 2024-10-10 17:08:09.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1696428223 {#272
      date: 2023-10-04 16:03:43.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#1962 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1924 …}
  +slug: "We-ll-see"
  +title: "We’ll see"
  +url: "https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/edf9fcc6-4eff-4ad6-98fd-8102f77f13cc.png"
  +body: null
  +type: "image"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: true
  +commentCount: 15
  +favouriteCount: 805
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1702397530 {#2410
    date: 2023-12-12 17:12:10.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1886 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1973 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1948 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1927 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2442 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2440 …}
  +children: []
  -id: 21760
  -titleTs: "'ll':2 'see':3"
  -bodyTs: null
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1702452349
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/post/10878543"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1702365949 {#1850
    date: 2023-12-12 08:25:49.0 +01:00
  }
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3999
  +user: App\Entity\User {#3947 …}
  +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2388
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1943 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#266
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#247 …}
      +name: "memes@lemmy.ml"
      +title: "memes"
      +description: """
        #### Rules:\n
        \n
        1. Be civil and nice.\n
        2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you *have* to.
        """
      +rules: null
      +subscriptionsCount: 1
      +entryCount: 5926
      +entryCommentCount: 65073
      +postCount: 25
      +postCommentCount: 152
      +isAdult: false
      +customCss: null
      +lastActive: DateTime @1729583092 {#276
        date: 2024-10-22 09:44:52.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +tags: null
      +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#238 …}
      +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#234 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#223 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#181 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#139 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#201 …}
      +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#118 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#82 …}
      +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#72 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#61 …}
      +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1820 …}
      -id: 38
      +apId: "memes@lemmy.ml"
      +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.ml/c/memes"
      +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/c/memes"
      +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/c/memes/followers"
      +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/inbox"
      +apDomain: "lemmy.ml"
      +apPreferredUsername: "memes"
      +apDiscoverable: true
      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
      +privateKey: null
      +publicKey: null
      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728572889 {#270
        date: 2024-10-10 17:08:09.0 +02:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
      +apTimeoutAt: null
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1696428223 {#272
        date: 2023-10-04 16:03:43.0 +02:00
      }
    }
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#1962 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1924 …}
    +slug: "We-ll-see"
    +title: "We’ll see"
    +url: "https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/edf9fcc6-4eff-4ad6-98fd-8102f77f13cc.png"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 15
    +favouriteCount: 805
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702397530 {#2410
      date: 2023-12-12 17:12:10.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1886 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1973 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1948 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1927 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2442 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2440 …}
    +children: []
    -id: 21760
    -titleTs: "'ll':2 'see':3"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1702452349
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/post/10878543"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1702365949 {#1850
      date: 2023-12-12 08:25:49.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#266}
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
  +body: "Did you hear about the blind carpenter? He picked up a hammer and saw"
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 4
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1702397530 {#4008
    date: 2023-12-12 17:12:10.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@sjmarf@sh.itjust.works"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3997 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3995 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3993 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3991 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3959 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3963 …}
  -id: 218523
  -bodyTs: "'blind':6 'carpent':7 'hammer':12 'hear':3 'pick':9 'saw':14"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.world/comment/5994696"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1702397530 {#3944
    date: 2023-12-12 17:12:10.0 +01:00
  }
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3999
  +user: App\Entity\User {#3947 …}
  +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2388
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1943 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#266
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#247 …}
      +name: "memes@lemmy.ml"
      +title: "memes"
      +description: """
        #### Rules:\n
        \n
        1. Be civil and nice.\n
        2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you *have* to.
        """
      +rules: null
      +subscriptionsCount: 1
      +entryCount: 5926
      +entryCommentCount: 65073
      +postCount: 25
      +postCommentCount: 152
      +isAdult: false
      +customCss: null
      +lastActive: DateTime @1729583092 {#276
        date: 2024-10-22 09:44:52.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +tags: null
      +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#238 …}
      +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#234 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#223 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#181 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#139 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#201 …}
      +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#118 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#82 …}
      +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#72 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#61 …}
      +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1820 …}
      -id: 38
      +apId: "memes@lemmy.ml"
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1924 …}
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    +ip: null
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  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#266}
  +image: null
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3999
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1943 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#266
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#247 …}
      +name: "memes@lemmy.ml"
      +title: "memes"
      +description: """
        #### Rules:\n
        \n
        1. Be civil and nice.\n
        2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you *have* to.
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1924 …}
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  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#266}
  +image: null
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  +body: "Did you hear about the blind carpenter? He picked up a hammer and saw"
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4031
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1943 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#266
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#247 …}
      +name: "memes@lemmy.ml"
      +title: "memes"
      +description: """
        #### Rules:\n
        \n
        1. Be civil and nice.\n
        2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you *have* to.
        """
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#1962 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1924 …}
    +slug: "We-ll-see"
    +title: "We’ll see"
    +url: "https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/edf9fcc6-4eff-4ad6-98fd-8102f77f13cc.png"
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  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#266}
  +image: null
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4031
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1943 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#266
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#247 …}
      +name: "memes@lemmy.ml"
      +title: "memes"
      +description: """
        #### Rules:\n
        \n
        1. Be civil and nice.\n
        2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you *have* to.
        """
      +rules: null
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#1962 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1924 …}
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  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#266}
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  +body: "I love you for this"
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4031
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1943 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#266
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#247 …}
      +name: "memes@lemmy.ml"
      +title: "memes"
      +description: """
        #### Rules:\n
        \n
        1. Be civil and nice.\n
        2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you *have* to.
        """
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#1962 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1924 …}
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  }
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4116
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      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#247 …}
      +name: "memes@lemmy.ml"
      +title: "memes"
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        #### Rules:\n
        \n
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        2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you *have* to.
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4116
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      +name: "memes@lemmy.ml"
      +title: "memes"
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        #### Rules:\n
        \n
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        2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you *have* to.
        """
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1924 …}
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4116
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      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#247 …}
      +name: "memes@lemmy.ml"
      +title: "memes"
      +description: """
        #### Rules:\n
        \n
        1. Be civil and nice.\n
        2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you *have* to.
        """
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1924 …}
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4191
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      +name: "memes@lemmy.ml"
      +title: "memes"
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        #### Rules:\n
        \n
        1. Be civil and nice.\n
        2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you *have* to.
        """
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        #### Rules:\n
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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      +name: "memes@lemmy.ml"
      +title: "memes"
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        #### Rules:\n
        \n
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        2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you *have* to.
        """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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      +name: "memes@lemmy.ml"
      +title: "memes"
      +description: """
        #### Rules:\n
        \n
        1. Be civil and nice.\n
        2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you *have* to.
        """
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    No one says “me are going”, but lots of people say “me and X are going”, indicating that for native speakers, coordination of noun phrases functions differently than a single noun phrase.\n
    \n
    In a contrasting case, people might think the phrase “I and John are here” sounds wrong, though they’d accept “John and I are here.” If you’re going by the “pure grammar” rule of “remove one subject from the phrase and check the grammar”, you’d have to accept either of those as equally viable, but many people don’t.
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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        #### Rules:\n
        \n
        1. Be civil and nice.\n
        2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you *have* to.
        """
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      date: 2023-12-12 10:46:28.0 +01:00
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  +body: """
    No one says “me are going”, but lots of people say “me and X are going”, indicating that for native speakers, coordination of noun phrases functions differently than a single noun phrase.\n
    \n
    In a contrasting case, people might think the phrase “I and John are here” sounds wrong, though they’d accept “John and I are here.” If you’re going by the “pure grammar” rule of “remove one subject from the phrase and check the grammar”, you’d have to accept either of those as equally viable, but many people don’t.
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#247 …}
      +name: "memes@lemmy.ml"
      +title: "memes"
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        #### Rules:\n
        \n
        1. Be civil and nice.\n
        2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you *have* to.
        """
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4191}
  +body: """
    No one says “me are going”, but lots of people say “me and X are going”, indicating that for native speakers, coordination of noun phrases functions differently than a single noun phrase.\n
    \n
    In a contrasting case, people might think the phrase “I and John are here” sounds wrong, though they’d accept “John and I are here.” If you’re going by the “pure grammar” rule of “remove one subject from the phrase and check the grammar”, you’d have to accept either of those as equally viable, but many people don’t.
    """
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    "@SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world"
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#247 …}
      +name: "memes@lemmy.ml"
      +title: "memes"
      +description: """
        #### Rules:\n
        \n
        1. Be civil and nice.\n
        2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you *have* to.
        """
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    }
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#1962 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1924 …}
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    +title: "We’ll see"
    +url: "https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/edf9fcc6-4eff-4ad6-98fd-8102f77f13cc.png"
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  }
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        date: 2023-12-12 10:46:28.0 +01:00
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    }
    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4191}
    +body: """
      No one says “me are going”, but lots of people say “me and X are going”, indicating that for native speakers, coordination of noun phrases functions differently than a single noun phrase.\n
      \n
      In a contrasting case, people might think the phrase “I and John are here” sounds wrong, though they’d accept “John and I are here.” If you’re going by the “pure grammar” rule of “remove one subject from the phrase and check the grammar”, you’d have to accept either of those as equally viable, but many people don’t.
      """
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      "@SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world"
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  }
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4191}
  +body: """
    Close but not quite: the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last (with second person coming first if present in the sentence and then third person) and, as you say, use I or me depending on which one it would be if the others weren’t in the sentence.\n
    \n
    **Wrong**\n
    \n
    “Me and Dave are going spelunking”\n
    \n
    “Remember that Dave, you, and I are going spelunking”\n
    \n
    “This is a picture of Dave and I spelunking”\n
    \n
    **Right**\n
    \n
    “Dave and I are going spelunking”\n
    \n
    “Remember that you, Dave, and I are going spelunking”\n
    \n
    “This is a picture of Dave and me spelunking”
    """
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    "@SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world"
    "@tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip"
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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        #### Rules:\n
        \n
        1. Be civil and nice.\n
        2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you *have* to.
        """
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1924 …}
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        date: 2023-12-12 10:46:28.0 +01:00
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    +body: """
      No one says “me are going”, but lots of people say “me and X are going”, indicating that for native speakers, coordination of noun phrases functions differently than a single noun phrase.\n
      \n
      In a contrasting case, people might think the phrase “I and John are here” sounds wrong, though they’d accept “John and I are here.” If you’re going by the “pure grammar” rule of “remove one subject from the phrase and check the grammar”, you’d have to accept either of those as equally viable, but many people don’t.
      """
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      date: 2023-12-12 11:29:16.0 +01:00
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  }
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    Close but not quite: the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last (with second person coming first if present in the sentence and then third person) and, as you say, use I or me depending on which one it would be if the others weren’t in the sentence.\n
    \n
    **Wrong**\n
    \n
    “Me and Dave are going spelunking”\n
    \n
    “Remember that Dave, you, and I are going spelunking”\n
    \n
    “This is a picture of Dave and I spelunking”\n
    \n
    **Right**\n
    \n
    “Dave and I are going spelunking”\n
    \n
    “Remember that you, Dave, and I are going spelunking”\n
    \n
    “This is a picture of Dave and me spelunking”
    """
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}
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        #### Rules:\n
        \n
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    +body: """
      No one says “me are going”, but lots of people say “me and X are going”, indicating that for native speakers, coordination of noun phrases functions differently than a single noun phrase.\n
      \n
      In a contrasting case, people might think the phrase “I and John are here” sounds wrong, though they’d accept “John and I are here.” If you’re going by the “pure grammar” rule of “remove one subject from the phrase and check the grammar”, you’d have to accept either of those as equally viable, but many people don’t.
      """
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4191}
  +body: """
    Close but not quite: the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last (with second person coming first if present in the sentence and then third person) and, as you say, use I or me depending on which one it would be if the others weren’t in the sentence.\n
    \n
    **Wrong**\n
    \n
    “Me and Dave are going spelunking”\n
    \n
    “Remember that Dave, you, and I are going spelunking”\n
    \n
    “This is a picture of Dave and I spelunking”\n
    \n
    **Right**\n
    \n
    “Dave and I are going spelunking”\n
    \n
    “Remember that you, Dave, and I are going spelunking”\n
    \n
    “This is a picture of Dave and me spelunking”
    """
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    "@SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world"
    "@tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip"
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4482
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      +title: "memes"
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        #### Rules:\n
        \n
        1. Be civil and nice.\n
        2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you *have* to.
        """
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    }
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#1962 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1924 …}
    +slug: "We-ll-see"
    +title: "We’ll see"
    +url: "https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/edf9fcc6-4eff-4ad6-98fd-8102f77f13cc.png"
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        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4198 …}
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          date: 2023-12-12 10:46:28.0 +01:00
        }
      }
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4191}
      +body: """
        No one says “me are going”, but lots of people say “me and X are going”, indicating that for native speakers, coordination of noun phrases functions differently than a single noun phrase.\n
        \n
        In a contrasting case, people might think the phrase “I and John are here” sounds wrong, though they’d accept “John and I are here.” If you’re going by the “pure grammar” rule of “remove one subject from the phrase and check the grammar”, you’d have to accept either of those as equally viable, but many people don’t.
        """
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        "@sjmarf@sh.itjust.works"
        "@SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world"
      ]
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        date: 2023-12-12 11:29:16.0 +01:00
      }
    }
    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4191}
    +body: """
      Close but not quite: the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last (with second person coming first if present in the sentence and then third person) and, as you say, use I or me depending on which one it would be if the others weren’t in the sentence.\n
      \n
      **Wrong**\n
      \n
      “Me and Dave are going spelunking”\n
      \n
      “Remember that Dave, you, and I are going spelunking”\n
      \n
      “This is a picture of Dave and I spelunking”\n
      \n
      **Right**\n
      \n
      “Dave and I are going spelunking”\n
      \n
      “Remember that you, Dave, and I are going spelunking”\n
      \n
      “This is a picture of Dave and me spelunking”
      """
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    +isAdult: false
    +favouriteCount: 12
    +score: 0
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      date: 2023-12-12 12:07:16.0 +01:00
    }
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      "@sjmarf@sh.itjust.works"
      "@SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world"
      "@tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4464 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4466 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4467 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4469 …}
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      date: 2023-12-31 05:34:00.0 +01:00
    }
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1702379236 {#4452
      date: 2023-12-12 12:07:16.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4191}
  +body: """
    > the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last\n
    \n
    That was exactly why I mentioned this case. What exactly separates the grammar of “I (and Dave) am going” vs “Dave (and I) is going”? They’re both “subject plus verb”, indicating that the order of the coordinations is a matter of style, not grammar.\n
    \n
    As to the subjective vs objective cases, the reasons I brought that up is that grammar seeks to explain the rules of language as native speakers use it. Therefore, the only “wrong” grammar is constructions that natives wouldn’t use, such as (eg) mimicking a Japanese grammar structure and saying “I the house to go.” Since native speakers often use cases like “Me and Dave are going spelunking”, it’s not wrong, merely a different register of speaking.\n
    \n
    Accepting only [prestige dialects](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prestige_(sociolinguistics)?useskin=vector) as “correct” grammar is why people continue to think things like “black people don’t speak right”, despite the fact that [African American English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_English?useskin=vector) has the same consistency of grammar that the prestige dialect does.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 1
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1702381436 {#4485
    date: 2023-12-12 12:43:56.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
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    "@sjmarf@sh.itjust.works"
    "@SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world"
    "@tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip"
    "@Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4480 …}
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  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4492 …}
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  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4496 …}
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  }
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    date: 2023-12-12 12:43:56.0 +01:00
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4482
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#4438 …}
  +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2388
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1943 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#266
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#247 …}
      +name: "memes@lemmy.ml"
      +title: "memes"
      +description: """
        #### Rules:\n
        \n
        1. Be civil and nice.\n
        2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you *have* to.
        """
      +rules: null
      +subscriptionsCount: 1
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        date: 2024-10-22 09:44:52.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +tags: null
      +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#238 …}
      +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#234 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#223 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#181 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#139 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#201 …}
      +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#118 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#82 …}
      +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#72 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#61 …}
      +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1820 …}
      -id: 38
      +apId: "memes@lemmy.ml"
      +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.ml/c/memes"
      +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/c/memes"
      +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/c/memes/followers"
      +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/inbox"
      +apDomain: "lemmy.ml"
      +apPreferredUsername: "memes"
      +apDiscoverable: true
      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
      +privateKey: null
      +publicKey: null
      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728572889 {#270
        date: 2024-10-10 17:08:09.0 +02:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
      +apTimeoutAt: null
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1696428223 {#272
        date: 2023-10-04 16:03:43.0 +02:00
      }
    }
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#1962 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1924 …}
    +slug: "We-ll-see"
    +title: "We’ll see"
    +url: "https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/edf9fcc6-4eff-4ad6-98fd-8102f77f13cc.png"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
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    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
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    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702397530 {#2410
      date: 2023-12-12 17:12:10.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1886 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1973 …}
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    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2442 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2440 …}
    +children: []
    -id: 21760
    -titleTs: "'ll':2 'see':3"
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    +cross: false
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      date: 2023-12-12 08:25:49.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#266}
  +image: null
  +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4460
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#4463 …}
    +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2388}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#266}
    +image: null
    +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4437
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#4438 …}
      +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2388}
      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#266}
      +image: null
      +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4191
        +user: App\Entity\User {#4204 …}
        +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2388}
        +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#266}
        +image: null
        +parent: null
        +root: null
        +body: "“Me are going?”"
        +lang: "en"
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        }
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          "@sjmarf@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4192 …}
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        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4196 …}
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        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4202 …}
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1702374388 {#4187
          date: 2023-12-12 10:46:28.0 +01:00
        }
      }
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4191}
      +body: """
        No one says “me are going”, but lots of people say “me and X are going”, indicating that for native speakers, coordination of noun phrases functions differently than a single noun phrase.\n
        \n
        In a contrasting case, people might think the phrase “I and John are here” sounds wrong, though they’d accept “John and I are here.” If you’re going by the “pure grammar” rule of “remove one subject from the phrase and check the grammar”, you’d have to accept either of those as equally viable, but many people don’t.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
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        date: 2023-12-12 11:29:16.0 +01:00
      }
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        "@sjmarf@sh.itjust.works"
        "@SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4439 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4441 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4443 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4445 …}
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      +ranking: 0
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      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1702376956 {#4436
        date: 2023-12-12 11:29:16.0 +01:00
      }
    }
    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4191}
    +body: """
      Close but not quite: the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last (with second person coming first if present in the sentence and then third person) and, as you say, use I or me depending on which one it would be if the others weren’t in the sentence.\n
      \n
      **Wrong**\n
      \n
      “Me and Dave are going spelunking”\n
      \n
      “Remember that Dave, you, and I are going spelunking”\n
      \n
      “This is a picture of Dave and I spelunking”\n
      \n
      **Right**\n
      \n
      “Dave and I are going spelunking”\n
      \n
      “Remember that you, Dave, and I are going spelunking”\n
      \n
      “This is a picture of Dave and me spelunking”
      """
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
    +favouriteCount: 12
    +score: 0
    +lastActive: DateTime @1702379236 {#4457
      date: 2023-12-12 12:07:16.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +tags: null
    +mentions: [
      "@sjmarf@sh.itjust.works"
      "@SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world"
      "@tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4464 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4466 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4467 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4469 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4471 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4473 …}
    -id: 217966
    -bodyTs: "'alway':10 'close':1 'come':17 'correct':6 'dave':54,60,72,77,86,97 'depend':36 'first':18 'go':56,65,81,90 'grammar':7 'last':13 'mention':11 'one':39 'other':45 'person':16,27 'pictur':70,95 'present':20 'quit':4 'rememb':58,83 'right':76 'say':31 'second':15 'sentenc':23,50 'spelunk':57,66,75,82,91,100 'third':26 'use':32 'weren':46 'would':41 'wrong':51"
    +ranking: 0
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.world/comment/5989694"
    +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703997240 {#4454
      date: 2023-12-31 05:34:00.0 +01:00
    }
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1702379236 {#4452
      date: 2023-12-12 12:07:16.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4191}
  +body: """
    > the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last\n
    \n
    That was exactly why I mentioned this case. What exactly separates the grammar of “I (and Dave) am going” vs “Dave (and I) is going”? They’re both “subject plus verb”, indicating that the order of the coordinations is a matter of style, not grammar.\n
    \n
    As to the subjective vs objective cases, the reasons I brought that up is that grammar seeks to explain the rules of language as native speakers use it. Therefore, the only “wrong” grammar is constructions that natives wouldn’t use, such as (eg) mimicking a Japanese grammar structure and saying “I the house to go.” Since native speakers often use cases like “Me and Dave are going spelunking”, it’s not wrong, merely a different register of speaking.\n
    \n
    Accepting only [prestige dialects](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prestige_(sociolinguistics)?useskin=vector) as “correct” grammar is why people continue to think things like “black people don’t speak right”, despite the fact that [African American English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_English?useskin=vector) has the same consistency of grammar that the prestige dialect does.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 1
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1702381436 {#4485
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  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@sjmarf@sh.itjust.works"
    "@SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world"
    "@tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip"
    "@Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4480 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4478 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4476 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4492 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4494 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4496 …}
  -id: 218008
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  +ranking: 0
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  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.zip/comment/5466642"
  +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704001143 {#4488
    date: 2023-12-31 06:39:03.0 +01:00
  }
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1702381436 {#4490
    date: 2023-12-12 12:43:56.0 +01:00
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4482
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#4438 …}
  +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2388
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1943 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#266
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#247 …}
      +name: "memes@lemmy.ml"
      +title: "memes"
      +description: """
        #### Rules:\n
        \n
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        No one says “me are going”, but lots of people say “me and X are going”, indicating that for native speakers, coordination of noun phrases functions differently than a single noun phrase.\n
        \n
        In a contrasting case, people might think the phrase “I and John are here” sounds wrong, though they’d accept “John and I are here.” If you’re going by the “pure grammar” rule of “remove one subject from the phrase and check the grammar”, you’d have to accept either of those as equally viable, but many people don’t.
        """
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    +body: """
      Close but not quite: the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last (with second person coming first if present in the sentence and then third person) and, as you say, use I or me depending on which one it would be if the others weren’t in the sentence.\n
      \n
      **Wrong**\n
      \n
      “Me and Dave are going spelunking”\n
      \n
      “Remember that Dave, you, and I are going spelunking”\n
      \n
      “This is a picture of Dave and I spelunking”\n
      \n
      **Right**\n
      \n
      “Dave and I are going spelunking”\n
      \n
      “Remember that you, Dave, and I are going spelunking”\n
      \n
      “This is a picture of Dave and me spelunking”
      """
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  +body: """
    > the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last\n
    \n
    That was exactly why I mentioned this case. What exactly separates the grammar of “I (and Dave) am going” vs “Dave (and I) is going”? They’re both “subject plus verb”, indicating that the order of the coordinations is a matter of style, not grammar.\n
    \n
    As to the subjective vs objective cases, the reasons I brought that up is that grammar seeks to explain the rules of language as native speakers use it. Therefore, the only “wrong” grammar is constructions that natives wouldn’t use, such as (eg) mimicking a Japanese grammar structure and saying “I the house to go.” Since native speakers often use cases like “Me and Dave are going spelunking”, it’s not wrong, merely a different register of speaking.\n
    \n
    Accepting only [prestige dialects](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prestige_(sociolinguistics)?useskin=vector) as “correct” grammar is why people continue to think things like “black people don’t speak right”, despite the fact that [African American English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_English?useskin=vector) has the same consistency of grammar that the prestige dialect does.
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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        #### Rules:\n
        \n
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        """
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        +body: """
          No one says “me are going”, but lots of people say “me and X are going”, indicating that for native speakers, coordination of noun phrases functions differently than a single noun phrase.\n
          \n
          In a contrasting case, people might think the phrase “I and John are here” sounds wrong, though they’d accept “John and I are here.” If you’re going by the “pure grammar” rule of “remove one subject from the phrase and check the grammar”, you’d have to accept either of those as equally viable, but many people don’t.
          """
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      +body: """
        Close but not quite: the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last (with second person coming first if present in the sentence and then third person) and, as you say, use I or me depending on which one it would be if the others weren’t in the sentence.\n
        \n
        **Wrong**\n
        \n
        “Me and Dave are going spelunking”\n
        \n
        “Remember that Dave, you, and I are going spelunking”\n
        \n
        “This is a picture of Dave and I spelunking”\n
        \n
        **Right**\n
        \n
        “Dave and I are going spelunking”\n
        \n
        “Remember that you, Dave, and I are going spelunking”\n
        \n
        “This is a picture of Dave and me spelunking”
        """
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    +body: """
      > the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last\n
      \n
      That was exactly why I mentioned this case. What exactly separates the grammar of “I (and Dave) am going” vs “Dave (and I) is going”? They’re both “subject plus verb”, indicating that the order of the coordinations is a matter of style, not grammar.\n
      \n
      As to the subjective vs objective cases, the reasons I brought that up is that grammar seeks to explain the rules of language as native speakers use it. Therefore, the only “wrong” grammar is constructions that natives wouldn’t use, such as (eg) mimicking a Japanese grammar structure and saying “I the house to go.” Since native speakers often use cases like “Me and Dave are going spelunking”, it’s not wrong, merely a different register of speaking.\n
      \n
      Accepting only [prestige dialects](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prestige_(sociolinguistics)?useskin=vector) as “correct” grammar is why people continue to think things like “black people don’t speak right”, despite the fact that [African American English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_English?useskin=vector) has the same consistency of grammar that the prestige dialect does.
      """
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  +body: "I would encourage people to code switch rather than adhere to one style of language over another in every case. Imho, it’s kind of problematic that language itself has become racialized in America to the point where people can actually be criticized or made fun of for speaking in the “wrong” style associated with their perceived ethnic background."
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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      +title: "memes"
      +description: """
        #### Rules:\n
        \n
        1. Be civil and nice.\n
        2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you *have* to.
        """
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        +body: """
          No one says “me are going”, but lots of people say “me and X are going”, indicating that for native speakers, coordination of noun phrases functions differently than a single noun phrase.\n
          \n
          In a contrasting case, people might think the phrase “I and John are here” sounds wrong, though they’d accept “John and I are here.” If you’re going by the “pure grammar” rule of “remove one subject from the phrase and check the grammar”, you’d have to accept either of those as equally viable, but many people don’t.
          """
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      +body: """
        Close but not quite: the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last (with second person coming first if present in the sentence and then third person) and, as you say, use I or me depending on which one it would be if the others weren’t in the sentence.\n
        \n
        **Wrong**\n
        \n
        “Me and Dave are going spelunking”\n
        \n
        “Remember that Dave, you, and I are going spelunking”\n
        \n
        “This is a picture of Dave and I spelunking”\n
        \n
        **Right**\n
        \n
        “Dave and I are going spelunking”\n
        \n
        “Remember that you, Dave, and I are going spelunking”\n
        \n
        “This is a picture of Dave and me spelunking”
        """
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4191}
    +body: """
      > the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last\n
      \n
      That was exactly why I mentioned this case. What exactly separates the grammar of “I (and Dave) am going” vs “Dave (and I) is going”? They’re both “subject plus verb”, indicating that the order of the coordinations is a matter of style, not grammar.\n
      \n
      As to the subjective vs objective cases, the reasons I brought that up is that grammar seeks to explain the rules of language as native speakers use it. Therefore, the only “wrong” grammar is constructions that natives wouldn’t use, such as (eg) mimicking a Japanese grammar structure and saying “I the house to go.” Since native speakers often use cases like “Me and Dave are going spelunking”, it’s not wrong, merely a different register of speaking.\n
      \n
      Accepting only [prestige dialects](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prestige_(sociolinguistics)?useskin=vector) as “correct” grammar is why people continue to think things like “black people don’t speak right”, despite the fact that [African American English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_English?useskin=vector) has the same consistency of grammar that the prestige dialect does.
      """
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  +body: "I would encourage people to code switch rather than adhere to one style of language over another in every case. Imho, it’s kind of problematic that language itself has become racialized in America to the point where people can actually be criticized or made fun of for speaking in the “wrong” style associated with their perceived ethnic background."
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4513
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      +name: "memes@lemmy.ml"
      +title: "memes"
      +description: """
        #### Rules:\n
        \n
        1. Be civil and nice.\n
        2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you *have* to.
        """
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          No one says “me are going”, but lots of people say “me and X are going”, indicating that for native speakers, coordination of noun phrases functions differently than a single noun phrase.\n
          \n
          In a contrasting case, people might think the phrase “I and John are here” sounds wrong, though they’d accept “John and I are here.” If you’re going by the “pure grammar” rule of “remove one subject from the phrase and check the grammar”, you’d have to accept either of those as equally viable, but many people don’t.
          """
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      +body: """
        Close but not quite: the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last (with second person coming first if present in the sentence and then third person) and, as you say, use I or me depending on which one it would be if the others weren’t in the sentence.\n
        \n
        **Wrong**\n
        \n
        “Me and Dave are going spelunking”\n
        \n
        “Remember that Dave, you, and I are going spelunking”\n
        \n
        “This is a picture of Dave and I spelunking”\n
        \n
        **Right**\n
        \n
        “Dave and I are going spelunking”\n
        \n
        “Remember that you, Dave, and I are going spelunking”\n
        \n
        “This is a picture of Dave and me spelunking”
        """
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    +body: """
      > the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last\n
      \n
      That was exactly why I mentioned this case. What exactly separates the grammar of “I (and Dave) am going” vs “Dave (and I) is going”? They’re both “subject plus verb”, indicating that the order of the coordinations is a matter of style, not grammar.\n
      \n
      As to the subjective vs objective cases, the reasons I brought that up is that grammar seeks to explain the rules of language as native speakers use it. Therefore, the only “wrong” grammar is constructions that natives wouldn’t use, such as (eg) mimicking a Japanese grammar structure and saying “I the house to go.” Since native speakers often use cases like “Me and Dave are going spelunking”, it’s not wrong, merely a different register of speaking.\n
      \n
      Accepting only [prestige dialects](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prestige_(sociolinguistics)?useskin=vector) as “correct” grammar is why people continue to think things like “black people don’t speak right”, despite the fact that [African American English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_English?useskin=vector) has the same consistency of grammar that the prestige dialect does.
      """
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  +body: "I would encourage people to code switch rather than adhere to one style of language over another in every case. Imho, it’s kind of problematic that language itself has become racialized in America to the point where people can actually be criticized or made fun of for speaking in the “wrong” style associated with their perceived ethnic background."
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        #### Rules:\n
        \n
        1. Be civil and nice.\n
        2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you *have* to.
        """
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          No one says “me are going”, but lots of people say “me and X are going”, indicating that for native speakers, coordination of noun phrases functions differently than a single noun phrase.\n
          \n
          In a contrasting case, people might think the phrase “I and John are here” sounds wrong, though they’d accept “John and I are here.” If you’re going by the “pure grammar” rule of “remove one subject from the phrase and check the grammar”, you’d have to accept either of those as equally viable, but many people don’t.
          """
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      +body: """
        Close but not quite: the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last (with second person coming first if present in the sentence and then third person) and, as you say, use I or me depending on which one it would be if the others weren’t in the sentence.\n
        \n
        **Wrong**\n
        \n
        “Me and Dave are going spelunking”\n
        \n
        “Remember that Dave, you, and I are going spelunking”\n
        \n
        “This is a picture of Dave and I spelunking”\n
        \n
        **Right**\n
        \n
        “Dave and I are going spelunking”\n
        \n
        “Remember that you, Dave, and I are going spelunking”\n
        \n
        “This is a picture of Dave and me spelunking”
        """
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    +body: """
      > the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last\n
      \n
      That was exactly why I mentioned this case. What exactly separates the grammar of “I (and Dave) am going” vs “Dave (and I) is going”? They’re both “subject plus verb”, indicating that the order of the coordinations is a matter of style, not grammar.\n
      \n
      As to the subjective vs objective cases, the reasons I brought that up is that grammar seeks to explain the rules of language as native speakers use it. Therefore, the only “wrong” grammar is constructions that natives wouldn’t use, such as (eg) mimicking a Japanese grammar structure and saying “I the house to go.” Since native speakers often use cases like “Me and Dave are going spelunking”, it’s not wrong, merely a different register of speaking.\n
      \n
      Accepting only [prestige dialects](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prestige_(sociolinguistics)?useskin=vector) as “correct” grammar is why people continue to think things like “black people don’t speak right”, despite the fact that [African American English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_English?useskin=vector) has the same consistency of grammar that the prestige dialect does.
      """
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  +body: """
    > What exactly separates the grammar of “I (and Dave) am going” vs “Dave (and I) is going”?\n
    \n
    The same thing that seperates the first one from “going Dave am I and”. Word order matters.\n
    \n
    > the order of the coordinations is a matter of style, not grammar.\n
    \n
    Categorically false\n
    \n
    > Therefore, the only “wrong” grammar is constructions that natives wouldn’t use\n
    \n
    Wrong again. Plenty of native speakers of just about every single language there is have atrocious grammar. Native ≠ correct grammar.\n
    \n
    > It’s not wrong, merely a different register of speaking\n
    \n
    It’s wrong when it comes to grammar. Whether or not gramatically incorrect colloquial speech is acceptable and sometimes even preferable to being gramatically correct (it is in most cases, but in some it can be very grating) is a different matter entirely.\n
    \n
    > Accepting only prestige dialects as “correct” grammar\n
    \n
    Nobody said anything about dialect\n
    \n
    > people continue to think things like "black people don’t speak right\n
    \n
    As I mentioned earlier, colloquial speech can be as good as or better than gramatically correct speech in some cases.\n
    \n
    You’re mixing up a whole lot of things that aren’t grammar and just generally being wildly wrong all over the place.
    """
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      +description: """
        #### Rules:\n
        \n
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        2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you *have* to.
        """
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    }
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  }
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          +body: "“Me are going?”"
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        +body: """
          No one says “me are going”, but lots of people say “me and X are going”, indicating that for native speakers, coordination of noun phrases functions differently than a single noun phrase.\n
          \n
          In a contrasting case, people might think the phrase “I and John are here” sounds wrong, though they’d accept “John and I are here.” If you’re going by the “pure grammar” rule of “remove one subject from the phrase and check the grammar”, you’d have to accept either of those as equally viable, but many people don’t.
          """
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      +body: """
        Close but not quite: the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last (with second person coming first if present in the sentence and then third person) and, as you say, use I or me depending on which one it would be if the others weren’t in the sentence.\n
        \n
        **Wrong**\n
        \n
        “Me and Dave are going spelunking”\n
        \n
        “Remember that Dave, you, and I are going spelunking”\n
        \n
        “This is a picture of Dave and I spelunking”\n
        \n
        **Right**\n
        \n
        “Dave and I are going spelunking”\n
        \n
        “Remember that you, Dave, and I are going spelunking”\n
        \n
        “This is a picture of Dave and me spelunking”
        """
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4191}
    +body: """
      > the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last\n
      \n
      That was exactly why I mentioned this case. What exactly separates the grammar of “I (and Dave) am going” vs “Dave (and I) is going”? They’re both “subject plus verb”, indicating that the order of the coordinations is a matter of style, not grammar.\n
      \n
      As to the subjective vs objective cases, the reasons I brought that up is that grammar seeks to explain the rules of language as native speakers use it. Therefore, the only “wrong” grammar is constructions that natives wouldn’t use, such as (eg) mimicking a Japanese grammar structure and saying “I the house to go.” Since native speakers often use cases like “Me and Dave are going spelunking”, it’s not wrong, merely a different register of speaking.\n
      \n
      Accepting only [prestige dialects](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prestige_(sociolinguistics)?useskin=vector) as “correct” grammar is why people continue to think things like “black people don’t speak right”, despite the fact that [African American English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_English?useskin=vector) has the same consistency of grammar that the prestige dialect does.
      """
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  +body: """
    > What exactly separates the grammar of “I (and Dave) am going” vs “Dave (and I) is going”?\n
    \n
    The same thing that seperates the first one from “going Dave am I and”. Word order matters.\n
    \n
    > the order of the coordinations is a matter of style, not grammar.\n
    \n
    Categorically false\n
    \n
    > Therefore, the only “wrong” grammar is constructions that natives wouldn’t use\n
    \n
    Wrong again. Plenty of native speakers of just about every single language there is have atrocious grammar. Native ≠ correct grammar.\n
    \n
    > It’s not wrong, merely a different register of speaking\n
    \n
    It’s wrong when it comes to grammar. Whether or not gramatically incorrect colloquial speech is acceptable and sometimes even preferable to being gramatically correct (it is in most cases, but in some it can be very grating) is a different matter entirely.\n
    \n
    > Accepting only prestige dialects as “correct” grammar\n
    \n
    Nobody said anything about dialect\n
    \n
    > people continue to think things like "black people don’t speak right\n
    \n
    As I mentioned earlier, colloquial speech can be as good as or better than gramatically correct speech in some cases.\n
    \n
    You’re mixing up a whole lot of things that aren’t grammar and just generally being wildly wrong all over the place.
    """
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      +name: "memes@lemmy.ml"
      +title: "memes"
      +description: """
        #### Rules:\n
        \n
        1. Be civil and nice.\n
        2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you *have* to.
        """
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          +body: "“Me are going?”"
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        }
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        +body: """
          No one says “me are going”, but lots of people say “me and X are going”, indicating that for native speakers, coordination of noun phrases functions differently than a single noun phrase.\n
          \n
          In a contrasting case, people might think the phrase “I and John are here” sounds wrong, though they’d accept “John and I are here.” If you’re going by the “pure grammar” rule of “remove one subject from the phrase and check the grammar”, you’d have to accept either of those as equally viable, but many people don’t.
          """
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      +body: """
        Close but not quite: the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last (with second person coming first if present in the sentence and then third person) and, as you say, use I or me depending on which one it would be if the others weren’t in the sentence.\n
        \n
        **Wrong**\n
        \n
        “Me and Dave are going spelunking”\n
        \n
        “Remember that Dave, you, and I are going spelunking”\n
        \n
        “This is a picture of Dave and I spelunking”\n
        \n
        **Right**\n
        \n
        “Dave and I are going spelunking”\n
        \n
        “Remember that you, Dave, and I are going spelunking”\n
        \n
        “This is a picture of Dave and me spelunking”
        """
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    +body: """
      > the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last\n
      \n
      That was exactly why I mentioned this case. What exactly separates the grammar of “I (and Dave) am going” vs “Dave (and I) is going”? They’re both “subject plus verb”, indicating that the order of the coordinations is a matter of style, not grammar.\n
      \n
      As to the subjective vs objective cases, the reasons I brought that up is that grammar seeks to explain the rules of language as native speakers use it. Therefore, the only “wrong” grammar is constructions that natives wouldn’t use, such as (eg) mimicking a Japanese grammar structure and saying “I the house to go.” Since native speakers often use cases like “Me and Dave are going spelunking”, it’s not wrong, merely a different register of speaking.\n
      \n
      Accepting only [prestige dialects](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prestige_(sociolinguistics)?useskin=vector) as “correct” grammar is why people continue to think things like “black people don’t speak right”, despite the fact that [African American English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_English?useskin=vector) has the same consistency of grammar that the prestige dialect does.
      """
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  +body: """
    > What exactly separates the grammar of “I (and Dave) am going” vs “Dave (and I) is going”?\n
    \n
    The same thing that seperates the first one from “going Dave am I and”. Word order matters.\n
    \n
    > the order of the coordinations is a matter of style, not grammar.\n
    \n
    Categorically false\n
    \n
    > Therefore, the only “wrong” grammar is constructions that natives wouldn’t use\n
    \n
    Wrong again. Plenty of native speakers of just about every single language there is have atrocious grammar. Native ≠ correct grammar.\n
    \n
    > It’s not wrong, merely a different register of speaking\n
    \n
    It’s wrong when it comes to grammar. Whether or not gramatically incorrect colloquial speech is acceptable and sometimes even preferable to being gramatically correct (it is in most cases, but in some it can be very grating) is a different matter entirely.\n
    \n
    > Accepting only prestige dialects as “correct” grammar\n
    \n
    Nobody said anything about dialect\n
    \n
    > people continue to think things like "black people don’t speak right\n
    \n
    As I mentioned earlier, colloquial speech can be as good as or better than gramatically correct speech in some cases.\n
    \n
    You’re mixing up a whole lot of things that aren’t grammar and just generally being wildly wrong all over the place.
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4538
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1943 …}
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      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#247 …}
      +name: "memes@lemmy.ml"
      +title: "memes"
      +description: """
        #### Rules:\n
        \n
        1. Be civil and nice.\n
        2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you *have* to.
        """
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    }
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#1962 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1924 …}
    +slug: "We-ll-see"
    +title: "We’ll see"
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    }
  }
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#266}
  +image: null
  +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4524
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#4463 …}
    +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2388}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#266}
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            +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2388}
            +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#266}
            +image: null
            +parent: null
            +root: null
            +body: "“Me are going?”"
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              date: 2023-12-12 10:46:28.0 +01:00
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          }
          +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4191}
          +body: """
            No one says “me are going”, but lots of people say “me and X are going”, indicating that for native speakers, coordination of noun phrases functions differently than a single noun phrase.\n
            \n
            In a contrasting case, people might think the phrase “I and John are here” sounds wrong, though they’d accept “John and I are here.” If you’re going by the “pure grammar” rule of “remove one subject from the phrase and check the grammar”, you’d have to accept either of those as equally viable, but many people don’t.
            """
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          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1702376956 {#4436
            date: 2023-12-12 11:29:16.0 +01:00
          }
        }
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4191}
        +body: """
          Close but not quite: the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last (with second person coming first if present in the sentence and then third person) and, as you say, use I or me depending on which one it would be if the others weren’t in the sentence.\n
          \n
          **Wrong**\n
          \n
          “Me and Dave are going spelunking”\n
          \n
          “Remember that Dave, you, and I are going spelunking”\n
          \n
          “This is a picture of Dave and I spelunking”\n
          \n
          **Right**\n
          \n
          “Dave and I are going spelunking”\n
          \n
          “Remember that you, Dave, and I are going spelunking”\n
          \n
          “This is a picture of Dave and me spelunking”
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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        +score: 0
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          "@sjmarf@sh.itjust.works"
          "@SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world"
          "@tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4464 …}
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          date: 2023-12-31 05:34:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1702379236 {#4452
          date: 2023-12-12 12:07:16.0 +01:00
        }
      }
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4191}
      +body: """
        > the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last\n
        \n
        That was exactly why I mentioned this case. What exactly separates the grammar of “I (and Dave) am going” vs “Dave (and I) is going”? They’re both “subject plus verb”, indicating that the order of the coordinations is a matter of style, not grammar.\n
        \n
        As to the subjective vs objective cases, the reasons I brought that up is that grammar seeks to explain the rules of language as native speakers use it. Therefore, the only “wrong” grammar is constructions that natives wouldn’t use, such as (eg) mimicking a Japanese grammar structure and saying “I the house to go.” Since native speakers often use cases like “Me and Dave are going spelunking”, it’s not wrong, merely a different register of speaking.\n
        \n
        Accepting only [prestige dialects](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prestige_(sociolinguistics)?useskin=vector) as “correct” grammar is why people continue to think things like “black people don’t speak right”, despite the fact that [African American English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_English?useskin=vector) has the same consistency of grammar that the prestige dialect does.
        """
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        "@sjmarf@sh.itjust.works"
        "@SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world"
        "@tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip"
        "@Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4480 …}
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      -id: 218008
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    }
    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4191}
    +body: """
      > What exactly separates the grammar of “I (and Dave) am going” vs “Dave (and I) is going”?\n
      \n
      The same thing that seperates the first one from “going Dave am I and”. Word order matters.\n
      \n
      > the order of the coordinations is a matter of style, not grammar.\n
      \n
      Categorically false\n
      \n
      > Therefore, the only “wrong” grammar is constructions that natives wouldn’t use\n
      \n
      Wrong again. Plenty of native speakers of just about every single language there is have atrocious grammar. Native ≠ correct grammar.\n
      \n
      > It’s not wrong, merely a different register of speaking\n
      \n
      It’s wrong when it comes to grammar. Whether or not gramatically incorrect colloquial speech is acceptable and sometimes even preferable to being gramatically correct (it is in most cases, but in some it can be very grating) is a different matter entirely.\n
      \n
      > Accepting only prestige dialects as “correct” grammar\n
      \n
      Nobody said anything about dialect\n
      \n
      > people continue to think things like "black people don’t speak right\n
      \n
      As I mentioned earlier, colloquial speech can be as good as or better than gramatically correct speech in some cases.\n
      \n
      You’re mixing up a whole lot of things that aren’t grammar and just generally being wildly wrong all over the place.
      """
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      "@SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world"
      "@tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip"
      "@Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world"
    ]
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      date: 2023-12-12 13:01:40.0 +01:00
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  }
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4191}
  +body: """
    > Native ≠ correct grammar.\n
    \n
    Then who’s the authority on grammar? We don’t have a single entity like the academie francaise.\n
    \n
    [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Académie_française?useskin=…](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acad%C3%A9mie_fran%C3%A7aise?useskin=vector)
    """
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    "@Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world"
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4538
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1943 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#266
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#247 …}
      +name: "memes@lemmy.ml"
      +title: "memes"
      +description: """
        #### Rules:\n
        \n
        1. Be civil and nice.\n
        2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you *have* to.
        """
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    }
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#1962 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1924 …}
    +slug: "We-ll-see"
    +title: "We’ll see"
    +url: "https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/edf9fcc6-4eff-4ad6-98fd-8102f77f13cc.png"
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          +body: """
            No one says “me are going”, but lots of people say “me and X are going”, indicating that for native speakers, coordination of noun phrases functions differently than a single noun phrase.\n
            \n
            In a contrasting case, people might think the phrase “I and John are here” sounds wrong, though they’d accept “John and I are here.” If you’re going by the “pure grammar” rule of “remove one subject from the phrase and check the grammar”, you’d have to accept either of those as equally viable, but many people don’t.
            """
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          Close but not quite: the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last (with second person coming first if present in the sentence and then third person) and, as you say, use I or me depending on which one it would be if the others weren’t in the sentence.\n
          \n
          **Wrong**\n
          \n
          “Me and Dave are going spelunking”\n
          \n
          “Remember that Dave, you, and I are going spelunking”\n
          \n
          “This is a picture of Dave and I spelunking”\n
          \n
          **Right**\n
          \n
          “Dave and I are going spelunking”\n
          \n
          “Remember that you, Dave, and I are going spelunking”\n
          \n
          “This is a picture of Dave and me spelunking”
          """
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      +body: """
        > the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last\n
        \n
        That was exactly why I mentioned this case. What exactly separates the grammar of “I (and Dave) am going” vs “Dave (and I) is going”? They’re both “subject plus verb”, indicating that the order of the coordinations is a matter of style, not grammar.\n
        \n
        As to the subjective vs objective cases, the reasons I brought that up is that grammar seeks to explain the rules of language as native speakers use it. Therefore, the only “wrong” grammar is constructions that natives wouldn’t use, such as (eg) mimicking a Japanese grammar structure and saying “I the house to go.” Since native speakers often use cases like “Me and Dave are going spelunking”, it’s not wrong, merely a different register of speaking.\n
        \n
        Accepting only [prestige dialects](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prestige_(sociolinguistics)?useskin=vector) as “correct” grammar is why people continue to think things like “black people don’t speak right”, despite the fact that [African American English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_English?useskin=vector) has the same consistency of grammar that the prestige dialect does.
        """
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    +body: """
      > What exactly separates the grammar of “I (and Dave) am going” vs “Dave (and I) is going”?\n
      \n
      The same thing that seperates the first one from “going Dave am I and”. Word order matters.\n
      \n
      > the order of the coordinations is a matter of style, not grammar.\n
      \n
      Categorically false\n
      \n
      > Therefore, the only “wrong” grammar is constructions that natives wouldn’t use\n
      \n
      Wrong again. Plenty of native speakers of just about every single language there is have atrocious grammar. Native ≠ correct grammar.\n
      \n
      > It’s not wrong, merely a different register of speaking\n
      \n
      It’s wrong when it comes to grammar. Whether or not gramatically incorrect colloquial speech is acceptable and sometimes even preferable to being gramatically correct (it is in most cases, but in some it can be very grating) is a different matter entirely.\n
      \n
      > Accepting only prestige dialects as “correct” grammar\n
      \n
      Nobody said anything about dialect\n
      \n
      > people continue to think things like "black people don’t speak right\n
      \n
      As I mentioned earlier, colloquial speech can be as good as or better than gramatically correct speech in some cases.\n
      \n
      You’re mixing up a whole lot of things that aren’t grammar and just generally being wildly wrong all over the place.
      """
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    > Native ≠ correct grammar.\n
    \n
    Then who’s the authority on grammar? We don’t have a single entity like the academie francaise.\n
    \n
    [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Académie_française?useskin=…](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acad%C3%A9mie_fran%C3%A7aise?useskin=vector)
    """
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}
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              date: 2023-12-12 10:46:28.0 +01:00
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          +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4191}
          +body: """
            No one says “me are going”, but lots of people say “me and X are going”, indicating that for native speakers, coordination of noun phrases functions differently than a single noun phrase.\n
            \n
            In a contrasting case, people might think the phrase “I and John are here” sounds wrong, though they’d accept “John and I are here.” If you’re going by the “pure grammar” rule of “remove one subject from the phrase and check the grammar”, you’d have to accept either of those as equally viable, but many people don’t.
            """
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        }
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4191}
        +body: """
          Close but not quite: the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last (with second person coming first if present in the sentence and then third person) and, as you say, use I or me depending on which one it would be if the others weren’t in the sentence.\n
          \n
          **Wrong**\n
          \n
          “Me and Dave are going spelunking”\n
          \n
          “Remember that Dave, you, and I are going spelunking”\n
          \n
          “This is a picture of Dave and I spelunking”\n
          \n
          **Right**\n
          \n
          “Dave and I are going spelunking”\n
          \n
          “Remember that you, Dave, and I are going spelunking”\n
          \n
          “This is a picture of Dave and me spelunking”
          """
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          date: 2023-12-31 05:34:00.0 +01:00
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      +body: """
        > the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last\n
        \n
        That was exactly why I mentioned this case. What exactly separates the grammar of “I (and Dave) am going” vs “Dave (and I) is going”? They’re both “subject plus verb”, indicating that the order of the coordinations is a matter of style, not grammar.\n
        \n
        As to the subjective vs objective cases, the reasons I brought that up is that grammar seeks to explain the rules of language as native speakers use it. Therefore, the only “wrong” grammar is constructions that natives wouldn’t use, such as (eg) mimicking a Japanese grammar structure and saying “I the house to go.” Since native speakers often use cases like “Me and Dave are going spelunking”, it’s not wrong, merely a different register of speaking.\n
        \n
        Accepting only [prestige dialects](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prestige_(sociolinguistics)?useskin=vector) as “correct” grammar is why people continue to think things like “black people don’t speak right”, despite the fact that [African American English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_English?useskin=vector) has the same consistency of grammar that the prestige dialect does.
        """
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    +body: """
      > What exactly separates the grammar of “I (and Dave) am going” vs “Dave (and I) is going”?\n
      \n
      The same thing that seperates the first one from “going Dave am I and”. Word order matters.\n
      \n
      > the order of the coordinations is a matter of style, not grammar.\n
      \n
      Categorically false\n
      \n
      > Therefore, the only “wrong” grammar is constructions that natives wouldn’t use\n
      \n
      Wrong again. Plenty of native speakers of just about every single language there is have atrocious grammar. Native ≠ correct grammar.\n
      \n
      > It’s not wrong, merely a different register of speaking\n
      \n
      It’s wrong when it comes to grammar. Whether or not gramatically incorrect colloquial speech is acceptable and sometimes even preferable to being gramatically correct (it is in most cases, but in some it can be very grating) is a different matter entirely.\n
      \n
      > Accepting only prestige dialects as “correct” grammar\n
      \n
      Nobody said anything about dialect\n
      \n
      > people continue to think things like "black people don’t speak right\n
      \n
      As I mentioned earlier, colloquial speech can be as good as or better than gramatically correct speech in some cases.\n
      \n
      You’re mixing up a whole lot of things that aren’t grammar and just generally being wildly wrong all over the place.
      """
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  +body: """
    > Native ≠ correct grammar.\n
    \n
    Then who’s the authority on grammar? We don’t have a single entity like the academie francaise.\n
    \n
    [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Académie_française?useskin=…](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acad%C3%A9mie_fran%C3%A7aise?useskin=vector)
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4574
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        #### Rules:\n
        \n
        1. Be civil and nice.\n
        2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you *have* to.
        """
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            +body: """
              No one says “me are going”, but lots of people say “me and X are going”, indicating that for native speakers, coordination of noun phrases functions differently than a single noun phrase.\n
              \n
              In a contrasting case, people might think the phrase “I and John are here” sounds wrong, though they’d accept “John and I are here.” If you’re going by the “pure grammar” rule of “remove one subject from the phrase and check the grammar”, you’d have to accept either of those as equally viable, but many people don’t.
              """
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          +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4191}
          +body: """
            Close but not quite: the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last (with second person coming first if present in the sentence and then third person) and, as you say, use I or me depending on which one it would be if the others weren’t in the sentence.\n
            \n
            **Wrong**\n
            \n
            “Me and Dave are going spelunking”\n
            \n
            “Remember that Dave, you, and I are going spelunking”\n
            \n
            “This is a picture of Dave and I spelunking”\n
            \n
            **Right**\n
            \n
            “Dave and I are going spelunking”\n
            \n
            “Remember that you, Dave, and I are going spelunking”\n
            \n
            “This is a picture of Dave and me spelunking”
            """
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            "@SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world"
            "@tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip"
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            date: 2023-12-31 05:34:00.0 +01:00
          }
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1702379236 {#4452
            date: 2023-12-12 12:07:16.0 +01:00
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4191}
        +body: """
          > the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last\n
          \n
          That was exactly why I mentioned this case. What exactly separates the grammar of “I (and Dave) am going” vs “Dave (and I) is going”? They’re both “subject plus verb”, indicating that the order of the coordinations is a matter of style, not grammar.\n
          \n
          As to the subjective vs objective cases, the reasons I brought that up is that grammar seeks to explain the rules of language as native speakers use it. Therefore, the only “wrong” grammar is constructions that natives wouldn’t use, such as (eg) mimicking a Japanese grammar structure and saying “I the house to go.” Since native speakers often use cases like “Me and Dave are going spelunking”, it’s not wrong, merely a different register of speaking.\n
          \n
          Accepting only [prestige dialects](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prestige_(sociolinguistics)?useskin=vector) as “correct” grammar is why people continue to think things like “black people don’t speak right”, despite the fact that [African American English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_English?useskin=vector) has the same consistency of grammar that the prestige dialect does.
          """
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      +body: """
        > What exactly separates the grammar of “I (and Dave) am going” vs “Dave (and I) is going”?\n
        \n
        The same thing that seperates the first one from “going Dave am I and”. Word order matters.\n
        \n
        > the order of the coordinations is a matter of style, not grammar.\n
        \n
        Categorically false\n
        \n
        > Therefore, the only “wrong” grammar is constructions that natives wouldn’t use\n
        \n
        Wrong again. Plenty of native speakers of just about every single language there is have atrocious grammar. Native ≠ correct grammar.\n
        \n
        > It’s not wrong, merely a different register of speaking\n
        \n
        It’s wrong when it comes to grammar. Whether or not gramatically incorrect colloquial speech is acceptable and sometimes even preferable to being gramatically correct (it is in most cases, but in some it can be very grating) is a different matter entirely.\n
        \n
        > Accepting only prestige dialects as “correct” grammar\n
        \n
        Nobody said anything about dialect\n
        \n
        > people continue to think things like "black people don’t speak right\n
        \n
        As I mentioned earlier, colloquial speech can be as good as or better than gramatically correct speech in some cases.\n
        \n
        You’re mixing up a whole lot of things that aren’t grammar and just generally being wildly wrong all over the place.
        """
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    +body: """
      > Native ≠ correct grammar.\n
      \n
      Then who’s the authority on grammar? We don’t have a single entity like the academie francaise.\n
      \n
      [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Académie_française?useskin=…](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acad%C3%A9mie_fran%C3%A7aise?useskin=vector)
      """
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  +body: """
    Just because there is no central authority does not mean there is no general consensus. English classes from elementary school to university aren’t accidentally in line with each other by some weird coincidence.\n
    \n
    Descriptivism has a place in the evolution of language, but not in a wholesale “everything native speakers might say is grammatically correct if they are understood”.
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4574
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1943 …}
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      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#247 …}
      +name: "memes@lemmy.ml"
      +title: "memes"
      +description: """
        #### Rules:\n
        \n
        1. Be civil and nice.\n
        2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you *have* to.
        """
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  }
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            }
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            +body: """
              No one says “me are going”, but lots of people say “me and X are going”, indicating that for native speakers, coordination of noun phrases functions differently than a single noun phrase.\n
              \n
              In a contrasting case, people might think the phrase “I and John are here” sounds wrong, though they’d accept “John and I are here.” If you’re going by the “pure grammar” rule of “remove one subject from the phrase and check the grammar”, you’d have to accept either of those as equally viable, but many people don’t.
              """
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              date: 2023-12-12 11:29:16.0 +01:00
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          }
          +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4191}
          +body: """
            Close but not quite: the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last (with second person coming first if present in the sentence and then third person) and, as you say, use I or me depending on which one it would be if the others weren’t in the sentence.\n
            \n
            **Wrong**\n
            \n
            “Me and Dave are going spelunking”\n
            \n
            “Remember that Dave, you, and I are going spelunking”\n
            \n
            “This is a picture of Dave and I spelunking”\n
            \n
            **Right**\n
            \n
            “Dave and I are going spelunking”\n
            \n
            “Remember that you, Dave, and I are going spelunking”\n
            \n
            “This is a picture of Dave and me spelunking”
            """
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            date: 2023-12-31 05:34:00.0 +01:00
          }
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            date: 2023-12-12 12:07:16.0 +01:00
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4191}
        +body: """
          > the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last\n
          \n
          That was exactly why I mentioned this case. What exactly separates the grammar of “I (and Dave) am going” vs “Dave (and I) is going”? They’re both “subject plus verb”, indicating that the order of the coordinations is a matter of style, not grammar.\n
          \n
          As to the subjective vs objective cases, the reasons I brought that up is that grammar seeks to explain the rules of language as native speakers use it. Therefore, the only “wrong” grammar is constructions that natives wouldn’t use, such as (eg) mimicking a Japanese grammar structure and saying “I the house to go.” Since native speakers often use cases like “Me and Dave are going spelunking”, it’s not wrong, merely a different register of speaking.\n
          \n
          Accepting only [prestige dialects](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prestige_(sociolinguistics)?useskin=vector) as “correct” grammar is why people continue to think things like “black people don’t speak right”, despite the fact that [African American English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_English?useskin=vector) has the same consistency of grammar that the prestige dialect does.
          """
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      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4191}
      +body: """
        > What exactly separates the grammar of “I (and Dave) am going” vs “Dave (and I) is going”?\n
        \n
        The same thing that seperates the first one from “going Dave am I and”. Word order matters.\n
        \n
        > the order of the coordinations is a matter of style, not grammar.\n
        \n
        Categorically false\n
        \n
        > Therefore, the only “wrong” grammar is constructions that natives wouldn’t use\n
        \n
        Wrong again. Plenty of native speakers of just about every single language there is have atrocious grammar. Native ≠ correct grammar.\n
        \n
        > It’s not wrong, merely a different register of speaking\n
        \n
        It’s wrong when it comes to grammar. Whether or not gramatically incorrect colloquial speech is acceptable and sometimes even preferable to being gramatically correct (it is in most cases, but in some it can be very grating) is a different matter entirely.\n
        \n
        > Accepting only prestige dialects as “correct” grammar\n
        \n
        Nobody said anything about dialect\n
        \n
        > people continue to think things like "black people don’t speak right\n
        \n
        As I mentioned earlier, colloquial speech can be as good as or better than gramatically correct speech in some cases.\n
        \n
        You’re mixing up a whole lot of things that aren’t grammar and just generally being wildly wrong all over the place.
        """
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    +body: """
      > Native ≠ correct grammar.\n
      \n
      Then who’s the authority on grammar? We don’t have a single entity like the academie francaise.\n
      \n
      [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Académie_française?useskin=…](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acad%C3%A9mie_fran%C3%A7aise?useskin=vector)
      """
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4191}
  +body: """
    Just because there is no central authority does not mean there is no general consensus. English classes from elementary school to university aren’t accidentally in line with each other by some weird coincidence.\n
    \n
    Descriptivism has a place in the evolution of language, but not in a wholesale “everything native speakers might say is grammatically correct if they are understood”.
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4574
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1943 …}
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      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#247 …}
      +name: "memes@lemmy.ml"
      +title: "memes"
      +description: """
        #### Rules:\n
        \n
        1. Be civil and nice.\n
        2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you *have* to.
        """
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            }
            +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4191}
            +body: """
              No one says “me are going”, but lots of people say “me and X are going”, indicating that for native speakers, coordination of noun phrases functions differently than a single noun phrase.\n
              \n
              In a contrasting case, people might think the phrase “I and John are here” sounds wrong, though they’d accept “John and I are here.” If you’re going by the “pure grammar” rule of “remove one subject from the phrase and check the grammar”, you’d have to accept either of those as equally viable, but many people don’t.
              """
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              date: 2023-12-12 11:29:16.0 +01:00
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          }
          +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4191}
          +body: """
            Close but not quite: the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last (with second person coming first if present in the sentence and then third person) and, as you say, use I or me depending on which one it would be if the others weren’t in the sentence.\n
            \n
            **Wrong**\n
            \n
            “Me and Dave are going spelunking”\n
            \n
            “Remember that Dave, you, and I are going spelunking”\n
            \n
            “This is a picture of Dave and I spelunking”\n
            \n
            **Right**\n
            \n
            “Dave and I are going spelunking”\n
            \n
            “Remember that you, Dave, and I are going spelunking”\n
            \n
            “This is a picture of Dave and me spelunking”
            """
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          }
        }
        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4191}
        +body: """
          > the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last\n
          \n
          That was exactly why I mentioned this case. What exactly separates the grammar of “I (and Dave) am going” vs “Dave (and I) is going”? They’re both “subject plus verb”, indicating that the order of the coordinations is a matter of style, not grammar.\n
          \n
          As to the subjective vs objective cases, the reasons I brought that up is that grammar seeks to explain the rules of language as native speakers use it. Therefore, the only “wrong” grammar is constructions that natives wouldn’t use, such as (eg) mimicking a Japanese grammar structure and saying “I the house to go.” Since native speakers often use cases like “Me and Dave are going spelunking”, it’s not wrong, merely a different register of speaking.\n
          \n
          Accepting only [prestige dialects](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prestige_(sociolinguistics)?useskin=vector) as “correct” grammar is why people continue to think things like “black people don’t speak right”, despite the fact that [African American English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_English?useskin=vector) has the same consistency of grammar that the prestige dialect does.
          """
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      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4191}
      +body: """
        > What exactly separates the grammar of “I (and Dave) am going” vs “Dave (and I) is going”?\n
        \n
        The same thing that seperates the first one from “going Dave am I and”. Word order matters.\n
        \n
        > the order of the coordinations is a matter of style, not grammar.\n
        \n
        Categorically false\n
        \n
        > Therefore, the only “wrong” grammar is constructions that natives wouldn’t use\n
        \n
        Wrong again. Plenty of native speakers of just about every single language there is have atrocious grammar. Native ≠ correct grammar.\n
        \n
        > It’s not wrong, merely a different register of speaking\n
        \n
        It’s wrong when it comes to grammar. Whether or not gramatically incorrect colloquial speech is acceptable and sometimes even preferable to being gramatically correct (it is in most cases, but in some it can be very grating) is a different matter entirely.\n
        \n
        > Accepting only prestige dialects as “correct” grammar\n
        \n
        Nobody said anything about dialect\n
        \n
        > people continue to think things like "black people don’t speak right\n
        \n
        As I mentioned earlier, colloquial speech can be as good as or better than gramatically correct speech in some cases.\n
        \n
        You’re mixing up a whole lot of things that aren’t grammar and just generally being wildly wrong all over the place.
        """
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    +body: """
      > Native ≠ correct grammar.\n
      \n
      Then who’s the authority on grammar? We don’t have a single entity like the academie francaise.\n
      \n
      [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Académie_française?useskin=…](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acad%C3%A9mie_fran%C3%A7aise?useskin=vector)
      """
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  +body: """
    Just because there is no central authority does not mean there is no general consensus. English classes from elementary school to university aren’t accidentally in line with each other by some weird coincidence.\n
    \n
    Descriptivism has a place in the evolution of language, but not in a wholesale “everything native speakers might say is grammatically correct if they are understood”.
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4597
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      +title: "memes"
      +description: """
        #### Rules:\n
        \n
        1. Be civil and nice.\n
        2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you *have* to.
        """
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              +body: """
                No one says “me are going”, but lots of people say “me and X are going”, indicating that for native speakers, coordination of noun phrases functions differently than a single noun phrase.\n
                \n
                In a contrasting case, people might think the phrase “I and John are here” sounds wrong, though they’d accept “John and I are here.” If you’re going by the “pure grammar” rule of “remove one subject from the phrase and check the grammar”, you’d have to accept either of those as equally viable, but many people don’t.
                """
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            +body: """
              Close but not quite: the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last (with second person coming first if present in the sentence and then third person) and, as you say, use I or me depending on which one it would be if the others weren’t in the sentence.\n
              \n
              **Wrong**\n
              \n
              “Me and Dave are going spelunking”\n
              \n
              “Remember that Dave, you, and I are going spelunking”\n
              \n
              “This is a picture of Dave and I spelunking”\n
              \n
              **Right**\n
              \n
              “Dave and I are going spelunking”\n
              \n
              “Remember that you, Dave, and I are going spelunking”\n
              \n
              “This is a picture of Dave and me spelunking”
              """
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            }
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          +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4191}
          +body: """
            > the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last\n
            \n
            That was exactly why I mentioned this case. What exactly separates the grammar of “I (and Dave) am going” vs “Dave (and I) is going”? They’re both “subject plus verb”, indicating that the order of the coordinations is a matter of style, not grammar.\n
            \n
            As to the subjective vs objective cases, the reasons I brought that up is that grammar seeks to explain the rules of language as native speakers use it. Therefore, the only “wrong” grammar is constructions that natives wouldn’t use, such as (eg) mimicking a Japanese grammar structure and saying “I the house to go.” Since native speakers often use cases like “Me and Dave are going spelunking”, it’s not wrong, merely a different register of speaking.\n
            \n
            Accepting only [prestige dialects](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prestige_(sociolinguistics)?useskin=vector) as “correct” grammar is why people continue to think things like “black people don’t speak right”, despite the fact that [African American English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_English?useskin=vector) has the same consistency of grammar that the prestige dialect does.
            """
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        +body: """
          > What exactly separates the grammar of “I (and Dave) am going” vs “Dave (and I) is going”?\n
          \n
          The same thing that seperates the first one from “going Dave am I and”. Word order matters.\n
          \n
          > the order of the coordinations is a matter of style, not grammar.\n
          \n
          Categorically false\n
          \n
          > Therefore, the only “wrong” grammar is constructions that natives wouldn’t use\n
          \n
          Wrong again. Plenty of native speakers of just about every single language there is have atrocious grammar. Native ≠ correct grammar.\n
          \n
          > It’s not wrong, merely a different register of speaking\n
          \n
          It’s wrong when it comes to grammar. Whether or not gramatically incorrect colloquial speech is acceptable and sometimes even preferable to being gramatically correct (it is in most cases, but in some it can be very grating) is a different matter entirely.\n
          \n
          > Accepting only prestige dialects as “correct” grammar\n
          \n
          Nobody said anything about dialect\n
          \n
          > people continue to think things like "black people don’t speak right\n
          \n
          As I mentioned earlier, colloquial speech can be as good as or better than gramatically correct speech in some cases.\n
          \n
          You’re mixing up a whole lot of things that aren’t grammar and just generally being wildly wrong all over the place.
          """
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        > Native ≠ correct grammar.\n
        \n
        Then who’s the authority on grammar? We don’t have a single entity like the academie francaise.\n
        \n
        [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Académie_française?useskin=…](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acad%C3%A9mie_fran%C3%A7aise?useskin=vector)
        """
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      Just because there is no central authority does not mean there is no general consensus. English classes from elementary school to university aren’t accidentally in line with each other by some weird coincidence.\n
      \n
      Descriptivism has a place in the evolution of language, but not in a wholesale “everything native speakers might say is grammatically correct if they are understood”.
      """
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    > English classes from elementary school to university aren’t accidentally in line with each other by some weird coincidence.\n
    \n
    So who has the authority when experts disagree? Like I said, no one is saying “I house go” but some people think “Give this to whomever comes here first” is correct while others argue for “whoever”. Descriptivism by definition seeks to explain how language functions. Prescriptivism only works within a narrowly defined framework, like APA or MLA for example, but even within those there’s disagreement.
    """
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        #### Rules:\n
        \n
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        """
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              +body: """
                No one says “me are going”, but lots of people say “me and X are going”, indicating that for native speakers, coordination of noun phrases functions differently than a single noun phrase.\n
                \n
                In a contrasting case, people might think the phrase “I and John are here” sounds wrong, though they’d accept “John and I are here.” If you’re going by the “pure grammar” rule of “remove one subject from the phrase and check the grammar”, you’d have to accept either of those as equally viable, but many people don’t.
                """
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            +body: """
              Close but not quite: the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last (with second person coming first if present in the sentence and then third person) and, as you say, use I or me depending on which one it would be if the others weren’t in the sentence.\n
              \n
              **Wrong**\n
              \n
              “Me and Dave are going spelunking”\n
              \n
              “Remember that Dave, you, and I are going spelunking”\n
              \n
              “This is a picture of Dave and I spelunking”\n
              \n
              **Right**\n
              \n
              “Dave and I are going spelunking”\n
              \n
              “Remember that you, Dave, and I are going spelunking”\n
              \n
              “This is a picture of Dave and me spelunking”
              """
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              date: 2023-12-31 05:34:00.0 +01:00
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          +body: """
            > the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last\n
            \n
            That was exactly why I mentioned this case. What exactly separates the grammar of “I (and Dave) am going” vs “Dave (and I) is going”? They’re both “subject plus verb”, indicating that the order of the coordinations is a matter of style, not grammar.\n
            \n
            As to the subjective vs objective cases, the reasons I brought that up is that grammar seeks to explain the rules of language as native speakers use it. Therefore, the only “wrong” grammar is constructions that natives wouldn’t use, such as (eg) mimicking a Japanese grammar structure and saying “I the house to go.” Since native speakers often use cases like “Me and Dave are going spelunking”, it’s not wrong, merely a different register of speaking.\n
            \n
            Accepting only [prestige dialects](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prestige_(sociolinguistics)?useskin=vector) as “correct” grammar is why people continue to think things like “black people don’t speak right”, despite the fact that [African American English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_English?useskin=vector) has the same consistency of grammar that the prestige dialect does.
            """
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        +body: """
          > What exactly separates the grammar of “I (and Dave) am going” vs “Dave (and I) is going”?\n
          \n
          The same thing that seperates the first one from “going Dave am I and”. Word order matters.\n
          \n
          > the order of the coordinations is a matter of style, not grammar.\n
          \n
          Categorically false\n
          \n
          > Therefore, the only “wrong” grammar is constructions that natives wouldn’t use\n
          \n
          Wrong again. Plenty of native speakers of just about every single language there is have atrocious grammar. Native ≠ correct grammar.\n
          \n
          > It’s not wrong, merely a different register of speaking\n
          \n
          It’s wrong when it comes to grammar. Whether or not gramatically incorrect colloquial speech is acceptable and sometimes even preferable to being gramatically correct (it is in most cases, but in some it can be very grating) is a different matter entirely.\n
          \n
          > Accepting only prestige dialects as “correct” grammar\n
          \n
          Nobody said anything about dialect\n
          \n
          > people continue to think things like "black people don’t speak right\n
          \n
          As I mentioned earlier, colloquial speech can be as good as or better than gramatically correct speech in some cases.\n
          \n
          You’re mixing up a whole lot of things that aren’t grammar and just generally being wildly wrong all over the place.
          """
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        > Native ≠ correct grammar.\n
        \n
        Then who’s the authority on grammar? We don’t have a single entity like the academie francaise.\n
        \n
        [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Académie_française?useskin=…](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acad%C3%A9mie_fran%C3%A7aise?useskin=vector)
        """
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      Just because there is no central authority does not mean there is no general consensus. English classes from elementary school to university aren’t accidentally in line with each other by some weird coincidence.\n
      \n
      Descriptivism has a place in the evolution of language, but not in a wholesale “everything native speakers might say is grammatically correct if they are understood”.
      """
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    > English classes from elementary school to university aren’t accidentally in line with each other by some weird coincidence.\n
    \n
    So who has the authority when experts disagree? Like I said, no one is saying “I house go” but some people think “Give this to whomever comes here first” is correct while others argue for “whoever”. Descriptivism by definition seeks to explain how language functions. Prescriptivism only works within a narrowly defined framework, like APA or MLA for example, but even within those there’s disagreement.
    """
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        #### Rules:\n
        \n
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                No one says “me are going”, but lots of people say “me and X are going”, indicating that for native speakers, coordination of noun phrases functions differently than a single noun phrase.\n
                \n
                In a contrasting case, people might think the phrase “I and John are here” sounds wrong, though they’d accept “John and I are here.” If you’re going by the “pure grammar” rule of “remove one subject from the phrase and check the grammar”, you’d have to accept either of those as equally viable, but many people don’t.
                """
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                date: 2023-12-12 11:29:16.0 +01:00
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            +body: """
              Close but not quite: the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last (with second person coming first if present in the sentence and then third person) and, as you say, use I or me depending on which one it would be if the others weren’t in the sentence.\n
              \n
              **Wrong**\n
              \n
              “Me and Dave are going spelunking”\n
              \n
              “Remember that Dave, you, and I are going spelunking”\n
              \n
              “This is a picture of Dave and I spelunking”\n
              \n
              **Right**\n
              \n
              “Dave and I are going spelunking”\n
              \n
              “Remember that you, Dave, and I are going spelunking”\n
              \n
              “This is a picture of Dave and me spelunking”
              """
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          +body: """
            > the correct grammar is to always mention yourself last\n
            \n
            That was exactly why I mentioned this case. What exactly separates the grammar of “I (and Dave) am going” vs “Dave (and I) is going”? They’re both “subject plus verb”, indicating that the order of the coordinations is a matter of style, not grammar.\n
            \n
            As to the subjective vs objective cases, the reasons I brought that up is that grammar seeks to explain the rules of language as native speakers use it. Therefore, the only “wrong” grammar is constructions that natives wouldn’t use, such as (eg) mimicking a Japanese grammar structure and saying “I the house to go.” Since native speakers often use cases like “Me and Dave are going spelunking”, it’s not wrong, merely a different register of speaking.\n
            \n
            Accepting only [prestige dialects](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prestige_(sociolinguistics)?useskin=vector) as “correct” grammar is why people continue to think things like “black people don’t speak right”, despite the fact that [African American English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_English?useskin=vector) has the same consistency of grammar that the prestige dialect does.
            """
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        +body: """
          > What exactly separates the grammar of “I (and Dave) am going” vs “Dave (and I) is going”?\n
          \n
          The same thing that seperates the first one from “going Dave am I and”. Word order matters.\n
          \n
          > the order of the coordinations is a matter of style, not grammar.\n
          \n
          Categorically false\n
          \n
          > Therefore, the only “wrong” grammar is constructions that natives wouldn’t use\n
          \n
          Wrong again. Plenty of native speakers of just about every single language there is have atrocious grammar. Native ≠ correct grammar.\n
          \n
          > It’s not wrong, merely a different register of speaking\n
          \n
          It’s wrong when it comes to grammar. Whether or not gramatically incorrect colloquial speech is acceptable and sometimes even preferable to being gramatically correct (it is in most cases, but in some it can be very grating) is a different matter entirely.\n
          \n
          > Accepting only prestige dialects as “correct” grammar\n
          \n
          Nobody said anything about dialect\n
          \n
          > people continue to think things like "black people don’t speak right\n
          \n
          As I mentioned earlier, colloquial speech can be as good as or better than gramatically correct speech in some cases.\n
          \n
          You’re mixing up a whole lot of things that aren’t grammar and just generally being wildly wrong all over the place.
          """
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        > Native ≠ correct grammar.\n
        \n
        Then who’s the authority on grammar? We don’t have a single entity like the academie francaise.\n
        \n
        [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Académie_française?useskin=…](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acad%C3%A9mie_fran%C3%A7aise?useskin=vector)
        """
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      Just because there is no central authority does not mean there is no general consensus. English classes from elementary school to university aren’t accidentally in line with each other by some weird coincidence.\n
      \n
      Descriptivism has a place in the evolution of language, but not in a wholesale “everything native speakers might say is grammatically correct if they are understood”.
      """
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    > English classes from elementary school to university aren’t accidentally in line with each other by some weird coincidence.\n
    \n
    So who has the authority when experts disagree? Like I said, no one is saying “I house go” but some people think “Give this to whomever comes here first” is correct while others argue for “whoever”. Descriptivism by definition seeks to explain how language functions. Prescriptivism only works within a narrowly defined framework, like APA or MLA for example, but even within those there’s disagreement.
    """
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null
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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      +title: "memes"
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        #### Rules:\n
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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        #### Rules:\n
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        2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you *have* to.
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4338
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      +name: "memes@lemmy.ml"
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        #### Rules:\n
        \n
        1. Be civil and nice.\n
        2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you *have* to.
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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        #### Rules:\n
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        2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you *have* to.
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  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4349 …}
  -id: 217825
  -bodyTs: "'3am':4 'alreadi':5 'jeez':1"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.nz/comment/4378637"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1702368406 {#4334
    date: 2023-12-12 09:06:46.0 +01:00
  }
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\Magazine {#266
  +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#247 …}
  +name: "memes@lemmy.ml"
  +title: "memes"
  +description: """
    #### Rules:\n
    \n
    1. Be civil and nice.\n
    2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you *have* to.
    """
  +rules: null
  +subscriptionsCount: 1
  +entryCount: 5926
  +entryCommentCount: 65073
  +postCount: 25
  +postCommentCount: 152
  +isAdult: false
  +customCss: null
  +lastActive: DateTime @1729583092 {#276
    date: 2024-10-22 09:44:52.0 +02:00
  }
  +markedForDeletionAt: null
  +tags: null
  +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#238 …}
  +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#234 …}
  +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#223 …}
  +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#181 …}
  +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#139 …}
  +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#201 …}
  +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#118 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#104 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#82 …}
  +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#72 …}
  +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#61 …}
  +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1820 …}
  -id: 38
  +apId: "memes@lemmy.ml"
  +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.ml/c/memes"
  +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/c/memes"
  +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/c/memes/followers"
  +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/inbox"
  +apDomain: "lemmy.ml"
  +apPreferredUsername: "memes"
  +apDiscoverable: true
  +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
  +privateKey: null
  +publicKey: null
  +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728572889 {#270
    date: 2024-10-10 17:08:09.0 +02:00
  }
  +apDeletedAt: null
  +apTimeoutAt: null
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1696428223 {#272
    date: 2023-10-04 16:03:43.0 +02:00
  }
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"

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