GET https://kbin.spritesserver.nl/index.php/m/asklemmy@lemmy.ml/t/1418/How-do-I-learn-to-detect-logical-fallacies-in-a/comment/22031/votes/down

Response
200 OK
IP
216.73.216.148
Profiled on
Token
20db81

Security

Token

There is no security token.

Firewall

main Name
Security enabled
Stateless

Configuration

Key Value
provider security.user.provider.concrete.app_user_provider
context main
entry_point App\Security\KbinAuthenticator
user_checker App\Security\UserChecker
access_denied_handler (none)
access_denied_url (none)
authenticators 
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Listeners

Listener Duration Response 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ChannelListener {#723
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  -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …}
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  -httpsPort: 443
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ContextListener {#706
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  -sessionKey: "_security_main"
  -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …}
  -userProviders: Symfony\Component\DependencyInjection\Argument\RewindableGenerator {#705 …}
  -dispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …}
  -registered: false
  -trustResolver: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authentication\AuthenticationTrustResolver {#780 …}
  -sessionTrackerEnabler: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage::enableUsageTracking(): void {#703 …}
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 22.68 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AuthenticatorManagerListener {#584
  -authenticatorManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Authentication\AuthenticatorManager {#595 …}
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Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Http\Firewall\TwoFactorAccessListener {#582
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  -twoFactorAccessDecider: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\TwoFactorAccessDecider {#581 …}
}
 0.07 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AccessListener {#579
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -accessDecisionManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\TraceableAccessDecisionManager {#937 …}
  -map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …}
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 0.00 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\LogoutListener {#786
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}
 0.00 ms (none)

Authenticators

No authenticators have been recorded. Check previous profiles on your authentication endpoint.

Access Decision

affirmative Strategy
# Voter class
1 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\AuthenticatedVoter"
2 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
3 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
4 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\ExpressionVoter"
5 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
6 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
7 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
8 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
9 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
10 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
11 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
12 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
13 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
14 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"

Access decision log

# Result Attributes Object
1 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
2 DENIED moderate 
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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      date: 2023-06-16 06:28:27.0 +02:00
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  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2353 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2451 …}
  +body: """
    **No true Scotsman** *is* a fallacy, more specifically ad hoc while defending *a generalisation* about a group defined by another criterion. Easier shown with an example:\n
    \n
    - [Alice] Vegetarians don’t eat cheese.\n
    - [Bob] I know plenty vegetarians who eat cheese. They just don’t eat meat.\n
    - [Alice] Those who eat cheese are not true vegetarians.\n
    \n
    If we accept the definition of vegetarian that you implied (someone who doesn’t eat *meat*), “not eating cheese” is at most a generalisation. As such, when Alice says “Those who eat cheese are not true vegetarians”, she is incurring in the fallacy.\n
    \n
    The **slippery slope** is an interesting case, because it’s *both* a fallacy and a social phenomenon. And evoking the social phenomenon doesn’t automatically mean that you’re using the fallacy.\n
    \n
    As a fallacy, it’s failure to acknowledge that the confidence in the conclusion is smaller than the confidence in the premises - so if you’re chaining lots of premises, your trust in the conclusion will degrade to nothing. Here’s a simple example of that:\n
    \n
    - if A happens, then B will happen 90% of the time. if A doesn’t happen, B never happens.\n
    - if B happens, then C will happen 90% of the time. if B doesn’t happen, C never happens.\n
    - […C then D, D then E, E then F, in the same fashion as above]\n
    - if F happens, then G will happen 90% of the time. if F doesn’t happen, G never happens.\n
    \n
    So if A happens, what’s the likelihood of G also happening? It is not 90%, but (90%)⁶ = 53%. Even with rather good confidence in the premises, the conclusion is a coin flip. (Incidentally, a similar reasoning can be used to back up Ockham’s Razor.)\n
    \n
    *As a social phenomenon*, however, the slippery slope is simply an observed pattern: if someone (or a group, or an entity) does something, it’s likely to do something similar but not necessarily identical in the future. That covers your example with fascists.\n
    \n
    > The same sort of thing happens all the time with ‘Appeal to Authority’, you can **probably** trust a scientific consensus about a subject in which they are all experts, but you probably shouldn’t trust an individual expert on a topic for which they are not recognized as an expert.\n
    \n
    The reason why appeal to authority is a fallacy (more specifically, a genetic fallacy) is because the truth value of a proposition does not depend on who proposes it. If an expert said that 2+2=5 (NB: natural numbers), it would be still false; and if the village idiot said that 2+2=4, it would be still true.\n
    \n
    We can still use authority however, but that requires inductive reasoning (like the one I did for the slippery slope), that is considerably weaker than deductive reasoning. And it can be still contradicted if you manage to back up an opposing claim with either 1) deductive logic, or 2) inductive logic with more trustable premises.
    """
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    date: 2023-07-18 21:34:58.0 +02:00
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  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
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    "@OsakaWilson@lemmy.world"
    "@Little_mouse@lemmy.ca"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2476 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2355 …}
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
3 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1365
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  +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#1805 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#311
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#292 …}
    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2353 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2451 …}
  +body: """
    **No true Scotsman** *is* a fallacy, more specifically ad hoc while defending *a generalisation* about a group defined by another criterion. Easier shown with an example:\n
    \n
    - [Alice] Vegetarians don’t eat cheese.\n
    - [Bob] I know plenty vegetarians who eat cheese. They just don’t eat meat.\n
    - [Alice] Those who eat cheese are not true vegetarians.\n
    \n
    If we accept the definition of vegetarian that you implied (someone who doesn’t eat *meat*), “not eating cheese” is at most a generalisation. As such, when Alice says “Those who eat cheese are not true vegetarians”, she is incurring in the fallacy.\n
    \n
    The **slippery slope** is an interesting case, because it’s *both* a fallacy and a social phenomenon. And evoking the social phenomenon doesn’t automatically mean that you’re using the fallacy.\n
    \n
    As a fallacy, it’s failure to acknowledge that the confidence in the conclusion is smaller than the confidence in the premises - so if you’re chaining lots of premises, your trust in the conclusion will degrade to nothing. Here’s a simple example of that:\n
    \n
    - if A happens, then B will happen 90% of the time. if A doesn’t happen, B never happens.\n
    - if B happens, then C will happen 90% of the time. if B doesn’t happen, C never happens.\n
    - […C then D, D then E, E then F, in the same fashion as above]\n
    - if F happens, then G will happen 90% of the time. if F doesn’t happen, G never happens.\n
    \n
    So if A happens, what’s the likelihood of G also happening? It is not 90%, but (90%)⁶ = 53%. Even with rather good confidence in the premises, the conclusion is a coin flip. (Incidentally, a similar reasoning can be used to back up Ockham’s Razor.)\n
    \n
    *As a social phenomenon*, however, the slippery slope is simply an observed pattern: if someone (or a group, or an entity) does something, it’s likely to do something similar but not necessarily identical in the future. That covers your example with fascists.\n
    \n
    > The same sort of thing happens all the time with ‘Appeal to Authority’, you can **probably** trust a scientific consensus about a subject in which they are all experts, but you probably shouldn’t trust an individual expert on a topic for which they are not recognized as an expert.\n
    \n
    The reason why appeal to authority is a fallacy (more specifically, a genetic fallacy) is because the truth value of a proposition does not depend on who proposes it. If an expert said that 2+2=5 (NB: natural numbers), it would be still false; and if the village idiot said that 2+2=4, it would be still true.\n
    \n
    We can still use authority however, but that requires inductive reasoning (like the one I did for the slippery slope), that is considerably weaker than deductive reasoning. And it can be still contradicted if you manage to back up an opposing claim with either 1) deductive logic, or 2) inductive logic with more trustable premises.
    """
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4 DENIED moderate 
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      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
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      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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    **No true Scotsman** *is* a fallacy, more specifically ad hoc while defending *a generalisation* about a group defined by another criterion. Easier shown with an example:\n
    \n
    - [Alice] Vegetarians don’t eat cheese.\n
    - [Bob] I know plenty vegetarians who eat cheese. They just don’t eat meat.\n
    - [Alice] Those who eat cheese are not true vegetarians.\n
    \n
    If we accept the definition of vegetarian that you implied (someone who doesn’t eat *meat*), “not eating cheese” is at most a generalisation. As such, when Alice says “Those who eat cheese are not true vegetarians”, she is incurring in the fallacy.\n
    \n
    The **slippery slope** is an interesting case, because it’s *both* a fallacy and a social phenomenon. And evoking the social phenomenon doesn’t automatically mean that you’re using the fallacy.\n
    \n
    As a fallacy, it’s failure to acknowledge that the confidence in the conclusion is smaller than the confidence in the premises - so if you’re chaining lots of premises, your trust in the conclusion will degrade to nothing. Here’s a simple example of that:\n
    \n
    - if A happens, then B will happen 90% of the time. if A doesn’t happen, B never happens.\n
    - if B happens, then C will happen 90% of the time. if B doesn’t happen, C never happens.\n
    - […C then D, D then E, E then F, in the same fashion as above]\n
    - if F happens, then G will happen 90% of the time. if F doesn’t happen, G never happens.\n
    \n
    So if A happens, what’s the likelihood of G also happening? It is not 90%, but (90%)⁶ = 53%. Even with rather good confidence in the premises, the conclusion is a coin flip. (Incidentally, a similar reasoning can be used to back up Ockham’s Razor.)\n
    \n
    *As a social phenomenon*, however, the slippery slope is simply an observed pattern: if someone (or a group, or an entity) does something, it’s likely to do something similar but not necessarily identical in the future. That covers your example with fascists.\n
    \n
    > The same sort of thing happens all the time with ‘Appeal to Authority’, you can **probably** trust a scientific consensus about a subject in which they are all experts, but you probably shouldn’t trust an individual expert on a topic for which they are not recognized as an expert.\n
    \n
    The reason why appeal to authority is a fallacy (more specifically, a genetic fallacy) is because the truth value of a proposition does not depend on who proposes it. If an expert said that 2+2=5 (NB: natural numbers), it would be still false; and if the village idiot said that 2+2=4, it would be still true.\n
    \n
    We can still use authority however, but that requires inductive reasoning (like the one I did for the slippery slope), that is considerably weaker than deductive reasoning. And it can be still contradicted if you manage to back up an opposing claim with either 1) deductive logic, or 2) inductive logic with more trustable premises.
    """
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5 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\Magazine {#311
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  +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
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  +description: """
    A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
    \n
    **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
    \n
    If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
    \n
    1. Open-ended\n
    2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
    3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
    4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
    5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
    \n
    Support alternatives:\n
    \n
    - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
    - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
    - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
    \n
    ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
    """
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