GET https://kbin.spritesserver.nl/index.php/u/@Cowbee@lemm.ee/active?p=2

Response
200 OK
IP
216.73.216.148
Profiled on
Token
341a44

Security

Token

There is no security token.

Firewall

main Name
Security enabled
Stateless

Configuration

Key Value
provider security.user.provider.concrete.app_user_provider
context main
entry_point App\Security\KbinAuthenticator
user_checker App\Security\UserChecker
access_denied_handler (none)
access_denied_url (none)
authenticators 
[
  "two_factor"
  "remember_me"
  "App\Security\KbinAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\FacebookAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\GoogleAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\GithubAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\KeycloakAuthenticator"
]

Listeners

Listener Duration Response 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ChannelListener {#723
  -map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …}
  -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …}
  -httpPort: 80
  -httpsPort: 443
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ContextListener {#706
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\TokenStorage {#1017 …}
  -sessionKey: "_security_main"
  -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …}
  -userProviders: Symfony\Component\DependencyInjection\Argument\RewindableGenerator {#705 …}
  -dispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …}
  -registered: false
  -trustResolver: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authentication\AuthenticationTrustResolver {#780 …}
  -sessionTrackerEnabler: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage::enableUsageTracking(): void {#703 …}
}
 12.73 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AuthenticatorManagerListener {#584
  -authenticatorManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Authentication\AuthenticatorManager {#595 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Http\Firewall\TwoFactorAccessListener {#582
  -twoFactorFirewallConfig: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\TwoFactor\TwoFactorFirewallConfig {#842 …}
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -twoFactorAccessDecider: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\TwoFactorAccessDecider {#581 …}
}
 0.09 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AccessListener {#579
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -accessDecisionManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\TraceableAccessDecisionManager {#937 …}
  -map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\LogoutListener {#786
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -options: [
    "csrf_parameter" => "_csrf_token"
    "csrf_token_id" => "logout"
    "logout_path" => "app_logout"
  ]
  -httpUtils: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\HttpUtils {#841 …}
  -csrfTokenManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Csrf\CsrfTokenManager {#1015 …}
  -eventDispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none)

Authenticators

No authenticators have been recorded. Check previous profiles on your authentication endpoint.

Access Decision

affirmative Strategy
# Voter class
1 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\AuthenticatedVoter"
2 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
3 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
4 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\ExpressionVoter"
5 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
6 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
7 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
8 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
9 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
10 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
11 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
12 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
13 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
14 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"

Access decision log

# Result Attributes Object
1 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
2 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2662 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3093 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3131 …}
  +slug: "Economic-Theory-is-Fun-tho"
  +title: "Economic Theory is Fun tho."
  +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/8750849a-e8e8-4b7b-a7f5-73e58d75f155.jpeg"
  +body: null
  +type: "image"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: true
  +commentCount: 148
  +favouriteCount: 1081
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1727563881 {#2274
    date: 2024-09-29 00:51:21.0 +02:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3130 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3128 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3125 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3159 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3155 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3172 …}
  +children: [
    3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2298 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293 …}
      +body: """
        Private Property cannot exist without a state. That which gives private property legitimacy is a monopoly of violence, otherwise you have a winner-takes-all might makes right system.\n
        \n
        Collective ownership of property can be enforced via the collective itself, without a need for a governing body.\n
        \n
        Anarchism is certainly idealistic, but Anarcho-Capitalism is *pure fantasy.*
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 2
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701719409 {#2252
        date: 2023-12-04 20:50:09.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
        "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2291 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2301 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2297 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2315 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2321 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2310 …}
      -id: 196540
      -bodyTs: "'anarch':49 'anarcho':55 'anarcho-capit':54 'bodi':48 'cannot':3 'capit':56 'certain':51 'collect':31,40 'enforc':37 'exist':4 'fantasi':59 'give':10 'govern':47 'idealist':52 'legitimaci':13 'make':28 'might':27 'monopoli':16 'need':44 'otherwis':19 'ownership':32 'privat':1,11 'properti':2,12,34 'pure':58 'right':29 'state':7 'system':30 'take':25 'via':38 'violenc':18 'winner':24 'winner-takes-al':23 'without':5,42"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6978967"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701719409 {#2192
        date: 2023-12-04 20:50:09.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 196540
    }
    2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2305
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2304 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2303 …}
      +body: "Nah, might makes right for them, lol"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 3
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701719468 {#2306
        date: 2023-12-04 20:51:08.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
        "@JayObey711@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2319 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2318 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2316 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2294 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2296 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2281 …}
      -id: 196545
      -bodyTs: "'lol':7 'make':3 'might':2 'nah':1 'right':4"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6978993"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701719468 {#2308
        date: 2023-12-04 20:51:08.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 196545
    }
    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2278
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2276 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293 …}
      +body: "Yes, absolutely. How would one win over with individual ownership? One dude with a couple guns vs an entire community?"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 1
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701724562 {#2280
        date: 2023-12-04 22:16:02.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
        "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        "@PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2279 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2277 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2220 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2222 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2219 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2196 …}
      -id: 196808
      -bodyTs: "'absolut':2 'communiti':20 'coupl':15 'dude':12 'entir':19 'gun':16 'individu':9 'one':5,11 'ownership':10 'vs':17 'win':6 'would':4 'yes':1"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6981786"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701724562 {#2282
        date: 2023-12-04 22:16:02.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 196808
    }
    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2193
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2197 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293 …}
      +body: """
        If everyone has equal ownership, there is no "mono"poly.\n
        \n
        Private ownership requires a monopoly on violence to exist, if you can’t defend it there are no rights.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 3
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701744318 {#2194
        date: 2023-12-05 03:45:18.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
        "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2205 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2202 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2210 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2207 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2208 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2204 …}
      -id: 198066
      -bodyTs: "'defend':24 'equal':4 'everyon':2 'exist':19 'mono':9 'monopoli':15 'ownership':5,12 'poli':10 'privat':11 'requir':13 'right':29 'violenc':17"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6992048"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701744318 {#2195
        date: 2023-12-05 03:45:18.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 198066
    }
  ]
  -id: 19749
  -titleTs: "'econom':1 'fun':4 'theori':2 'tho':5"
  -bodyTs: null
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1701702870
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8819989"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701616470 {#2780
    date: 2023-12-03 16:14:30.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
3 DENIED edit 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2662 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3093 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3131 …}
  +slug: "Economic-Theory-is-Fun-tho"
  +title: "Economic Theory is Fun tho."
  +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/8750849a-e8e8-4b7b-a7f5-73e58d75f155.jpeg"
  +body: null
  +type: "image"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: true
  +commentCount: 148
  +favouriteCount: 1081
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1727563881 {#2274
    date: 2024-09-29 00:51:21.0 +02:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3130 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3128 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3125 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3159 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3155 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3172 …}
  +children: [
    3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2298 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293 …}
      +body: """
        Private Property cannot exist without a state. That which gives private property legitimacy is a monopoly of violence, otherwise you have a winner-takes-all might makes right system.\n
        \n
        Collective ownership of property can be enforced via the collective itself, without a need for a governing body.\n
        \n
        Anarchism is certainly idealistic, but Anarcho-Capitalism is *pure fantasy.*
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 2
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701719409 {#2252
        date: 2023-12-04 20:50:09.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
        "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2291 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2301 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2297 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2315 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2321 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2310 …}
      -id: 196540
      -bodyTs: "'anarch':49 'anarcho':55 'anarcho-capit':54 'bodi':48 'cannot':3 'capit':56 'certain':51 'collect':31,40 'enforc':37 'exist':4 'fantasi':59 'give':10 'govern':47 'idealist':52 'legitimaci':13 'make':28 'might':27 'monopoli':16 'need':44 'otherwis':19 'ownership':32 'privat':1,11 'properti':2,12,34 'pure':58 'right':29 'state':7 'system':30 'take':25 'via':38 'violenc':18 'winner':24 'winner-takes-al':23 'without':5,42"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6978967"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701719409 {#2192
        date: 2023-12-04 20:50:09.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 196540
    }
    2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2305
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2304 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2303 …}
      +body: "Nah, might makes right for them, lol"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 3
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701719468 {#2306
        date: 2023-12-04 20:51:08.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
        "@JayObey711@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2319 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2318 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2316 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2294 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2296 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2281 …}
      -id: 196545
      -bodyTs: "'lol':7 'make':3 'might':2 'nah':1 'right':4"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6978993"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701719468 {#2308
        date: 2023-12-04 20:51:08.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 196545
    }
    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2278
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2276 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293 …}
      +body: "Yes, absolutely. How would one win over with individual ownership? One dude with a couple guns vs an entire community?"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 1
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701724562 {#2280
        date: 2023-12-04 22:16:02.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
        "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        "@PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2279 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2277 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2220 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2222 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2219 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2196 …}
      -id: 196808
      -bodyTs: "'absolut':2 'communiti':20 'coupl':15 'dude':12 'entir':19 'gun':16 'individu':9 'one':5,11 'ownership':10 'vs':17 'win':6 'would':4 'yes':1"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6981786"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701724562 {#2282
        date: 2023-12-04 22:16:02.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 196808
    }
    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2193
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2197 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293 …}
      +body: """
        If everyone has equal ownership, there is no "mono"poly.\n
        \n
        Private ownership requires a monopoly on violence to exist, if you can’t defend it there are no rights.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 3
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701744318 {#2194
        date: 2023-12-05 03:45:18.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
        "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2205 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2202 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2210 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2207 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2208 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2204 …}
      -id: 198066
      -bodyTs: "'defend':24 'equal':4 'everyon':2 'exist':19 'mono':9 'monopoli':15 'ownership':5,12 'poli':10 'privat':11 'requir':13 'right':29 'violenc':17"
      +ranking: 0
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      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
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      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701744318 {#2195
        date: 2023-12-05 03:45:18.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 198066
    }
  ]
  -id: 19749
  -titleTs: "'econom':1 'fun':4 'theori':2 'tho':5"
  -bodyTs: null
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1701702870
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8819989"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701616470 {#2780
    date: 2023-12-03 16:14:30.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
4 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2662 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3093 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3131 …}
  +slug: "Economic-Theory-is-Fun-tho"
  +title: "Economic Theory is Fun tho."
  +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/8750849a-e8e8-4b7b-a7f5-73e58d75f155.jpeg"
  +body: null
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    date: 2024-09-29 00:51:21.0 +02:00
  }
  +ip: null
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  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3130 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3128 …}
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  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3159 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3155 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3172 …}
  +children: [
    3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2298 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293 …}
      +body: """
        Private Property cannot exist without a state. That which gives private property legitimacy is a monopoly of violence, otherwise you have a winner-takes-all might makes right system.\n
        \n
        Collective ownership of property can be enforced via the collective itself, without a need for a governing body.\n
        \n
        Anarchism is certainly idealistic, but Anarcho-Capitalism is *pure fantasy.*
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 2
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701719409 {#2252
        date: 2023-12-04 20:50:09.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
        "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2291 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2301 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2297 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2315 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2321 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2310 …}
      -id: 196540
      -bodyTs: "'anarch':49 'anarcho':55 'anarcho-capit':54 'bodi':48 'cannot':3 'capit':56 'certain':51 'collect':31,40 'enforc':37 'exist':4 'fantasi':59 'give':10 'govern':47 'idealist':52 'legitimaci':13 'make':28 'might':27 'monopoli':16 'need':44 'otherwis':19 'ownership':32 'privat':1,11 'properti':2,12,34 'pure':58 'right':29 'state':7 'system':30 'take':25 'via':38 'violenc':18 'winner':24 'winner-takes-al':23 'without':5,42"
      +ranking: 0
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      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701719409 {#2192
        date: 2023-12-04 20:50:09.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 196540
    }
    2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2305
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2304 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2303 …}
      +body: "Nah, might makes right for them, lol"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 3
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701719468 {#2306
        date: 2023-12-04 20:51:08.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
        "@JayObey711@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2319 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2318 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2316 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2294 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2296 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2281 …}
      -id: 196545
      -bodyTs: "'lol':7 'make':3 'might':2 'nah':1 'right':4"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
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      +downVotes: 0
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      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701719468 {#2308
        date: 2023-12-04 20:51:08.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 196545
    }
    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2278
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2276 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293 …}
      +body: "Yes, absolutely. How would one win over with individual ownership? One dude with a couple guns vs an entire community?"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 1
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701724562 {#2280
        date: 2023-12-04 22:16:02.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
        "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        "@PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2279 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2277 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2220 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2222 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2219 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2196 …}
      -id: 196808
      -bodyTs: "'absolut':2 'communiti':20 'coupl':15 'dude':12 'entir':19 'gun':16 'individu':9 'one':5,11 'ownership':10 'vs':17 'win':6 'would':4 'yes':1"
      +ranking: 0
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      +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6981786"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701724562 {#2282
        date: 2023-12-04 22:16:02.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 196808
    }
    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2193
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2197 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293 …}
      +body: """
        If everyone has equal ownership, there is no "mono"poly.\n
        \n
        Private ownership requires a monopoly on violence to exist, if you can’t defend it there are no rights.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 3
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701744318 {#2194
        date: 2023-12-05 03:45:18.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
        "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
        "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2205 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2202 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2210 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2207 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2208 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2204 …}
      -id: 198066
      -bodyTs: "'defend':24 'equal':4 'everyon':2 'exist':19 'mono':9 'monopoli':15 'ownership':5,12 'poli':10 'privat':11 'requir':13 'right':29 'violenc':17"
      +ranking: 0
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      +upVotes: 0
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      +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6992048"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701744318 {#2195
        date: 2023-12-05 03:45:18.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 198066
    }
  ]
  -id: 19749
  -titleTs: "'econom':1 'fun':4 'theori':2 'tho':5"
  -bodyTs: null
  +cross: false
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  +ranking: 1701702870
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8819989"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701616470 {#2780
    date: 2023-12-03 16:14:30.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
5 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
6 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
  +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2662 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3093 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3131 …}
    +slug: "Economic-Theory-is-Fun-tho"
    +title: "Economic Theory is Fun tho."
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/8750849a-e8e8-4b7b-a7f5-73e58d75f155.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 148
    +favouriteCount: 1081
    +score: 0
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    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727563881 {#2274
      date: 2024-09-29 00:51:21.0 +02:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3130 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3128 …}
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    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3159 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3155 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3172 …}
    +children: [
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189}
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2305
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2304 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2303 …}
        +body: "Nah, might makes right for them, lol"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
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          date: 2023-12-04 20:51:08.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
          "@JayObey711@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2319 …}
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        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2294 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2296 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2281 …}
        -id: 196545
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701719468 {#2308
          date: 2023-12-04 20:51:08.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 196545
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2278
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2276 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293 …}
        +body: "Yes, absolutely. How would one win over with individual ownership? One dude with a couple guns vs an entire community?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701724562 {#2280
          date: 2023-12-04 22:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
          "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2279 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2277 …}
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        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2222 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2219 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2196 …}
        -id: 196808
        -bodyTs: "'absolut':2 'communiti':20 'coupl':15 'dude':12 'entir':19 'gun':16 'individu':9 'one':5,11 'ownership':10 'vs':17 'win':6 'would':4 'yes':1"
        +ranking: 0
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701724562 {#2282
          date: 2023-12-04 22:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 196808
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2193
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2197 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293 …}
        +body: """
          If everyone has equal ownership, there is no "mono"poly.\n
          \n
          Private ownership requires a monopoly on violence to exist, if you can’t defend it there are no rights.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701744318 {#2194
          date: 2023-12-05 03:45:18.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
          "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2205 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2202 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2210 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2207 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2208 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2204 …}
        -id: 198066
        -bodyTs: "'defend':24 'equal':4 'everyon':2 'exist':19 'mono':9 'monopoli':15 'ownership':5,12 'poli':10 'privat':11 'requir':13 'right':29 'violenc':17"
        +ranking: 0
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701744318 {#2195
          date: 2023-12-05 03:45:18.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 198066
      }
    ]
    -id: 19749
    -titleTs: "'econom':1 'fun':4 'theori':2 'tho':5"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1701702870
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8819989"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701616470 {#2780
      date: 2023-12-03 16:14:30.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2298 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293 …}
  +body: """
    Private Property cannot exist without a state. That which gives private property legitimacy is a monopoly of violence, otherwise you have a winner-takes-all might makes right system.\n
    \n
    Collective ownership of property can be enforced via the collective itself, without a need for a governing body.\n
    \n
    Anarchism is certainly idealistic, but Anarcho-Capitalism is *pure fantasy.*
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 2
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701719409 {#2252
    date: 2023-12-04 20:50:09.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
    "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2291 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2301 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2297 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2315 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2321 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2310 …}
  -id: 196540
  -bodyTs: "'anarch':49 'anarcho':55 'anarcho-capit':54 'bodi':48 'cannot':3 'capit':56 'certain':51 'collect':31,40 'enforc':37 'exist':4 'fantasi':59 'give':10 'govern':47 'idealist':52 'legitimaci':13 'make':28 'might':27 'monopoli':16 'need':44 'otherwis':19 'ownership':32 'privat':1,11 'properti':2,12,34 'pure':58 'right':29 'state':7 'system':30 'take':25 'via':38 'violenc':18 'winner':24 'winner-takes-al':23 'without':5,42"
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  +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6978967"
  +editedAt: null
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    date: 2023-12-04 20:50:09.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 196540
}
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
7 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
  +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2662 …}
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    +slug: "Economic-Theory-is-Fun-tho"
    +title: "Economic Theory is Fun tho."
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/8750849a-e8e8-4b7b-a7f5-73e58d75f155.jpeg"
    +body: null
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    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3172 …}
    +children: [
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189}
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2305
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
          "@JayObey711@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 196545
        -bodyTs: "'lol':7 'make':3 'might':2 'nah':1 'right':4"
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          date: 2023-12-04 20:51:08.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 196545
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2278
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2276 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293 …}
        +body: "Yes, absolutely. How would one win over with individual ownership? One dude with a couple guns vs an entire community?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701724562 {#2280
          date: 2023-12-04 22:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
          "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 196808
        -bodyTs: "'absolut':2 'communiti':20 'coupl':15 'dude':12 'entir':19 'gun':16 'individu':9 'one':5,11 'ownership':10 'vs':17 'win':6 'would':4 'yes':1"
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        +"title": 196808
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2193
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2197 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293 …}
        +body: """
          If everyone has equal ownership, there is no "mono"poly.\n
          \n
          Private ownership requires a monopoly on violence to exist, if you can’t defend it there are no rights.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-05 03:45:18.0 +01:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
          "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2205 …}
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        -id: 198066
        -bodyTs: "'defend':24 'equal':4 'everyon':2 'exist':19 'mono':9 'monopoli':15 'ownership':5,12 'poli':10 'privat':11 'requir':13 'right':29 'violenc':17"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-05 03:45:18.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 198066
      }
    ]
    -id: 19749
    -titleTs: "'econom':1 'fun':4 'theori':2 'tho':5"
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701616470 {#2780
      date: 2023-12-03 16:14:30.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
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  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2298 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293 …}
  +body: """
    Private Property cannot exist without a state. That which gives private property legitimacy is a monopoly of violence, otherwise you have a winner-takes-all might makes right system.\n
    \n
    Collective ownership of property can be enforced via the collective itself, without a need for a governing body.\n
    \n
    Anarchism is certainly idealistic, but Anarcho-Capitalism is *pure fantasy.*
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
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  +score: 0
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    date: 2023-12-04 20:50:09.0 +01:00
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    "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
    "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
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  -id: 196540
  -bodyTs: "'anarch':49 'anarcho':55 'anarcho-capit':54 'bodi':48 'cannot':3 'capit':56 'certain':51 'collect':31,40 'enforc':37 'exist':4 'fantasi':59 'give':10 'govern':47 'idealist':52 'legitimaci':13 'make':28 'might':27 'monopoli':16 'need':44 'otherwis':19 'ownership':32 'privat':1,11 'properti':2,12,34 'pure':58 'right':29 'state':7 'system':30 'take':25 'via':38 'violenc':18 'winner':24 'winner-takes-al':23 'without':5,42"
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  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701719409 {#2192
    date: 2023-12-04 20:50:09.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 196540
}
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
8 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189}
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2305
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          "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
          "@JayObey711@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 196545
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          date: 2023-12-04 20:51:08.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 196545
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2278
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          "@PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works"
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      }
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        +image: null
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        +body: """
          If everyone has equal ownership, there is no "mono"poly.\n
          \n
          Private ownership requires a monopoly on violence to exist, if you can’t defend it there are no rights.
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-12-05 03:45:18.0 +01:00
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          "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
          "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 198066
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      date: 2023-12-03 16:14:30.0 +01:00
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     …2
  }
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  +image: null
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  +body: """
    Private Property cannot exist without a state. That which gives private property legitimacy is a monopoly of violence, otherwise you have a winner-takes-all might makes right system.\n
    \n
    Collective ownership of property can be enforced via the collective itself, without a need for a governing body.\n
    \n
    Anarchism is certainly idealistic, but Anarcho-Capitalism is *pure fantasy.*
    """
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    date: 2023-12-04 20:50:09.0 +01:00
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  -id: 196540
  -bodyTs: "'anarch':49 'anarcho':55 'anarcho-capit':54 'bodi':48 'cannot':3 'capit':56 'certain':51 'collect':31,40 'enforc':37 'exist':4 'fantasi':59 'give':10 'govern':47 'idealist':52 'legitimaci':13 'make':28 'might':27 'monopoli':16 'need':44 'otherwis':19 'ownership':32 'privat':1,11 'properti':2,12,34 'pure':58 'right':29 'state':7 'system':30 'take':25 'via':38 'violenc':18 'winner':24 'winner-takes-al':23 'without':5,42"
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    date: 2023-12-04 20:50:09.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 196540
}
 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
9 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
10 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2305
  +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2662 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3093 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3131 …}
    +slug: "Economic-Theory-is-Fun-tho"
    +title: "Economic Theory is Fun tho."
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/8750849a-e8e8-4b7b-a7f5-73e58d75f155.jpeg"
    +body: null
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      date: 2024-09-29 00:51:21.0 +02:00
    }
    +ip: null
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    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3130 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3128 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3125 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3159 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3155 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3172 …}
    +children: [
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2298 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293 …}
        +body: """
          Private Property cannot exist without a state. That which gives private property legitimacy is a monopoly of violence, otherwise you have a winner-takes-all might makes right system.\n
          \n
          Collective ownership of property can be enforced via the collective itself, without a need for a governing body.\n
          \n
          Anarchism is certainly idealistic, but Anarcho-Capitalism is *pure fantasy.*
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701719409 {#2252
          date: 2023-12-04 20:50:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
          "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2291 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2301 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2297 …}
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        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2310 …}
        -id: 196540
        -bodyTs: "'anarch':49 'anarcho':55 'anarcho-capit':54 'bodi':48 'cannot':3 'capit':56 'certain':51 'collect':31,40 'enforc':37 'exist':4 'fantasi':59 'give':10 'govern':47 'idealist':52 'legitimaci':13 'make':28 'might':27 'monopoli':16 'need':44 'otherwis':19 'ownership':32 'privat':1,11 'properti':2,12,34 'pure':58 'right':29 'state':7 'system':30 'take':25 'via':38 'violenc':18 'winner':24 'winner-takes-al':23 'without':5,42"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6978967"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701719409 {#2192
          date: 2023-12-04 20:50:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 196540
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2305}
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2278
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2276 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293 …}
        +body: "Yes, absolutely. How would one win over with individual ownership? One dude with a couple guns vs an entire community?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701724562 {#2280
          date: 2023-12-04 22:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
          "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2279 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2277 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2220 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2222 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2219 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2196 …}
        -id: 196808
        -bodyTs: "'absolut':2 'communiti':20 'coupl':15 'dude':12 'entir':19 'gun':16 'individu':9 'one':5,11 'ownership':10 'vs':17 'win':6 'would':4 'yes':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6981786"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701724562 {#2282
          date: 2023-12-04 22:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 196808
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2193
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2197 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293 …}
        +body: """
          If everyone has equal ownership, there is no "mono"poly.\n
          \n
          Private ownership requires a monopoly on violence to exist, if you can’t defend it there are no rights.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701744318 {#2194
          date: 2023-12-05 03:45:18.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
          "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2205 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2202 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2210 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2207 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2208 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2204 …}
        -id: 198066
        -bodyTs: "'defend':24 'equal':4 'everyon':2 'exist':19 'mono':9 'monopoli':15 'ownership':5,12 'poli':10 'privat':11 'requir':13 'right':29 'violenc':17"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701744318 {#2195
          date: 2023-12-05 03:45:18.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 198066
      }
    ]
    -id: 19749
    -titleTs: "'econom':1 'fun':4 'theori':2 'tho':5"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1701702870
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8819989"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701616470 {#2780
      date: 2023-12-03 16:14:30.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2304 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2303 …}
  +body: "Nah, might makes right for them, lol"
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 3
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701719468 {#2306
    date: 2023-12-04 20:51:08.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
    "@JayObey711@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2319 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2318 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2316 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2294 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2296 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2281 …}
  -id: 196545
  -bodyTs: "'lol':7 'make':3 'might':2 'nah':1 'right':4"
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  +downVotes: 0
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  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701719468 {#2308
    date: 2023-12-04 20:51:08.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 196545
}
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
11 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2305
  +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2662 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3093 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3131 …}
    +slug: "Economic-Theory-is-Fun-tho"
    +title: "Economic Theory is Fun tho."
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/8750849a-e8e8-4b7b-a7f5-73e58d75f155.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
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    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 148
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      date: 2024-09-29 00:51:21.0 +02:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3130 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3128 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3125 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3159 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3155 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3172 …}
    +children: [
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2298 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293 …}
        +body: """
          Private Property cannot exist without a state. That which gives private property legitimacy is a monopoly of violence, otherwise you have a winner-takes-all might makes right system.\n
          \n
          Collective ownership of property can be enforced via the collective itself, without a need for a governing body.\n
          \n
          Anarchism is certainly idealistic, but Anarcho-Capitalism is *pure fantasy.*
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701719409 {#2252
          date: 2023-12-04 20:50:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
          "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2291 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2301 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2297 …}
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        -id: 196540
        -bodyTs: "'anarch':49 'anarcho':55 'anarcho-capit':54 'bodi':48 'cannot':3 'capit':56 'certain':51 'collect':31,40 'enforc':37 'exist':4 'fantasi':59 'give':10 'govern':47 'idealist':52 'legitimaci':13 'make':28 'might':27 'monopoli':16 'need':44 'otherwis':19 'ownership':32 'privat':1,11 'properti':2,12,34 'pure':58 'right':29 'state':7 'system':30 'take':25 'via':38 'violenc':18 'winner':24 'winner-takes-al':23 'without':5,42"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6978967"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701719409 {#2192
          date: 2023-12-04 20:50:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 196540
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2305}
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2278
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2276 …}
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        +body: "Yes, absolutely. How would one win over with individual ownership? One dude with a couple guns vs an entire community?"
        +lang: "en"
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        +lastActive: DateTime @1701724562 {#2280
          date: 2023-12-04 22:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
          "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2277 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2220 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2222 …}
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        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2196 …}
        -id: 196808
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        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701724562 {#2282
          date: 2023-12-04 22:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 196808
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2193
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2197 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293 …}
        +body: """
          If everyone has equal ownership, there is no "mono"poly.\n
          \n
          Private ownership requires a monopoly on violence to exist, if you can’t defend it there are no rights.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701744318 {#2194
          date: 2023-12-05 03:45:18.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
          "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2205 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2202 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2210 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2207 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2208 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2204 …}
        -id: 198066
        -bodyTs: "'defend':24 'equal':4 'everyon':2 'exist':19 'mono':9 'monopoli':15 'ownership':5,12 'poli':10 'privat':11 'requir':13 'right':29 'violenc':17"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701744318 {#2195
          date: 2023-12-05 03:45:18.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 198066
      }
    ]
    -id: 19749
    -titleTs: "'econom':1 'fun':4 'theori':2 'tho':5"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1701702870
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8819989"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701616470 {#2780
      date: 2023-12-03 16:14:30.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2304 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2303 …}
  +body: "Nah, might makes right for them, lol"
  +lang: "en"
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    date: 2023-12-04 20:51:08.0 +01:00
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    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
    "@JayObey711@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2319 …}
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    date: 2023-12-04 20:51:08.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 196545
}
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
12 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2305
  +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2662 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3093 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3131 …}
    +slug: "Economic-Theory-is-Fun-tho"
    +title: "Economic Theory is Fun tho."
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/8750849a-e8e8-4b7b-a7f5-73e58d75f155.jpeg"
    +body: null
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    }
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    +children: [
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2298 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293 …}
        +body: """
          Private Property cannot exist without a state. That which gives private property legitimacy is a monopoly of violence, otherwise you have a winner-takes-all might makes right system.\n
          \n
          Collective ownership of property can be enforced via the collective itself, without a need for a governing body.\n
          \n
          Anarchism is certainly idealistic, but Anarcho-Capitalism is *pure fantasy.*
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701719409 {#2252
          date: 2023-12-04 20:50:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
          "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2291 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2301 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2297 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2315 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2321 …}
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        -id: 196540
        -bodyTs: "'anarch':49 'anarcho':55 'anarcho-capit':54 'bodi':48 'cannot':3 'capit':56 'certain':51 'collect':31,40 'enforc':37 'exist':4 'fantasi':59 'give':10 'govern':47 'idealist':52 'legitimaci':13 'make':28 'might':27 'monopoli':16 'need':44 'otherwis':19 'ownership':32 'privat':1,11 'properti':2,12,34 'pure':58 'right':29 'state':7 'system':30 'take':25 'via':38 'violenc':18 'winner':24 'winner-takes-al':23 'without':5,42"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701719409 {#2192
          date: 2023-12-04 20:50:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 196540
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2305}
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2278
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2276 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293 …}
        +body: "Yes, absolutely. How would one win over with individual ownership? One dude with a couple guns vs an entire community?"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701724562 {#2280
          date: 2023-12-04 22:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
          "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2279 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2277 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2219 …}
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        -bodyTs: "'absolut':2 'communiti':20 'coupl':15 'dude':12 'entir':19 'gun':16 'individu':9 'one':5,11 'ownership':10 'vs':17 'win':6 'would':4 'yes':1"
        +ranking: 0
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701724562 {#2282
          date: 2023-12-04 22:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 196808
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2193
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2197 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293 …}
        +body: """
          If everyone has equal ownership, there is no "mono"poly.\n
          \n
          Private ownership requires a monopoly on violence to exist, if you can’t defend it there are no rights.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
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          date: 2023-12-05 03:45:18.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
          "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2205 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2202 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2210 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2207 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2208 …}
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        -id: 198066
        -bodyTs: "'defend':24 'equal':4 'everyon':2 'exist':19 'mono':9 'monopoli':15 'ownership':5,12 'poli':10 'privat':11 'requir':13 'right':29 'violenc':17"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
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        +editedAt: null
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          date: 2023-12-05 03:45:18.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 198066
      }
    ]
    -id: 19749
    -titleTs: "'econom':1 'fun':4 'theori':2 'tho':5"
    -bodyTs: null
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    +upVotes: 0
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    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8819989"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701616470 {#2780
      date: 2023-12-03 16:14:30.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2304 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2303 …}
  +body: "Nah, might makes right for them, lol"
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 3
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701719468 {#2306
    date: 2023-12-04 20:51:08.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
    "@JayObey711@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2319 …}
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  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2316 …}
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  -id: 196545
  -bodyTs: "'lol':7 'make':3 'might':2 'nah':1 'right':4"
  +ranking: 0
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  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
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  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701719468 {#2308
    date: 2023-12-04 20:51:08.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 196545
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
13 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
14 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2278
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2662 …}
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3093 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3131 …}
    +slug: "Economic-Theory-is-Fun-tho"
    +title: "Economic Theory is Fun tho."
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/8750849a-e8e8-4b7b-a7f5-73e58d75f155.jpeg"
    +body: null
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      date: 2024-09-29 00:51:21.0 +02:00
    }
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    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3130 …}
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    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3159 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3155 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3172 …}
    +children: [
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2298 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293 …}
        +body: """
          Private Property cannot exist without a state. That which gives private property legitimacy is a monopoly of violence, otherwise you have a winner-takes-all might makes right system.\n
          \n
          Collective ownership of property can be enforced via the collective itself, without a need for a governing body.\n
          \n
          Anarchism is certainly idealistic, but Anarcho-Capitalism is *pure fantasy.*
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701719409 {#2252
          date: 2023-12-04 20:50:09.0 +01:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
          "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2291 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2301 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2297 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2321 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2310 …}
        -id: 196540
        -bodyTs: "'anarch':49 'anarcho':55 'anarcho-capit':54 'bodi':48 'cannot':3 'capit':56 'certain':51 'collect':31,40 'enforc':37 'exist':4 'fantasi':59 'give':10 'govern':47 'idealist':52 'legitimaci':13 'make':28 'might':27 'monopoli':16 'need':44 'otherwis':19 'ownership':32 'privat':1,11 'properti':2,12,34 'pure':58 'right':29 'state':7 'system':30 'take':25 'via':38 'violenc':18 'winner':24 'winner-takes-al':23 'without':5,42"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701719409 {#2192
          date: 2023-12-04 20:50:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 196540
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2305
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2304 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2303 …}
        +body: "Nah, might makes right for them, lol"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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        +lastActive: DateTime @1701719468 {#2306
          date: 2023-12-04 20:51:08.0 +01:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
          "@JayObey711@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2319 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2318 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2316 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2294 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2296 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2281 …}
        -id: 196545
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701719468 {#2308
          date: 2023-12-04 20:51:08.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 196545
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2278}
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2193
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2197 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293 …}
        +body: """
          If everyone has equal ownership, there is no "mono"poly.\n
          \n
          Private ownership requires a monopoly on violence to exist, if you can’t defend it there are no rights.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-12-05 03:45:18.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
          "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2205 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2208 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2204 …}
        -id: 198066
        -bodyTs: "'defend':24 'equal':4 'everyon':2 'exist':19 'mono':9 'monopoli':15 'ownership':5,12 'poli':10 'privat':11 'requir':13 'right':29 'violenc':17"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-05 03:45:18.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 198066
      }
    ]
    -id: 19749
    -titleTs: "'econom':1 'fun':4 'theori':2 'tho':5"
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701616470 {#2780
      date: 2023-12-03 16:14:30.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2276 …}
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  +body: "Yes, absolutely. How would one win over with individual ownership? One dude with a couple guns vs an entire community?"
  +lang: "en"
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    "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
    "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
    "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
    "@PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2279 …}
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    date: 2023-12-04 22:16:02.0 +01:00
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  +"title": 196808
}
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
15 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2278
  +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299
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    +slug: "Economic-Theory-is-Fun-tho"
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          Private Property cannot exist without a state. That which gives private property legitimacy is a monopoly of violence, otherwise you have a winner-takes-all might makes right system.\n
          \n
          Collective ownership of property can be enforced via the collective itself, without a need for a governing body.\n
          \n
          Anarchism is certainly idealistic, but Anarcho-Capitalism is *pure fantasy.*
          """
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        -id: 196540
        -bodyTs: "'anarch':49 'anarcho':55 'anarcho-capit':54 'bodi':48 'cannot':3 'capit':56 'certain':51 'collect':31,40 'enforc':37 'exist':4 'fantasi':59 'give':10 'govern':47 'idealist':52 'legitimaci':13 'make':28 'might':27 'monopoli':16 'need':44 'otherwis':19 'ownership':32 'privat':1,11 'properti':2,12,34 'pure':58 'right':29 'state':7 'system':30 'take':25 'via':38 'violenc':18 'winner':24 'winner-takes-al':23 'without':5,42"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6978967"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701719409 {#2192
          date: 2023-12-04 20:50:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 196540
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2305
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2304 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2303 …}
        +body: "Nah, might makes right for them, lol"
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701719468 {#2306
          date: 2023-12-04 20:51:08.0 +01:00
        }
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        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
          "@JayObey711@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2319 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2318 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2316 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2294 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2296 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2281 …}
        -id: 196545
        -bodyTs: "'lol':7 'make':3 'might':2 'nah':1 'right':4"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701719468 {#2308
          date: 2023-12-04 20:51:08.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 196545
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2278}
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2193
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2197 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293 …}
        +body: """
          If everyone has equal ownership, there is no "mono"poly.\n
          \n
          Private ownership requires a monopoly on violence to exist, if you can’t defend it there are no rights.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-12-05 03:45:18.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
          "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2205 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2202 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2210 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2207 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2208 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2204 …}
        -id: 198066
        -bodyTs: "'defend':24 'equal':4 'everyon':2 'exist':19 'mono':9 'monopoli':15 'ownership':5,12 'poli':10 'privat':11 'requir':13 'right':29 'violenc':17"
        +ranking: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701744318 {#2195
          date: 2023-12-05 03:45:18.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 198066
      }
    ]
    -id: 19749
    -titleTs: "'econom':1 'fun':4 'theori':2 'tho':5"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1701702870
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8819989"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701616470 {#2780
      date: 2023-12-03 16:14:30.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2276 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293 …}
  +body: "Yes, absolutely. How would one win over with individual ownership? One dude with a couple guns vs an entire community?"
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 1
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701724562 {#2280
    date: 2023-12-04 22:16:02.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
    "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
    "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
    "@PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2279 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2277 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2220 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2222 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2219 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2196 …}
  -id: 196808
  -bodyTs: "'absolut':2 'communiti':20 'coupl':15 'dude':12 'entir':19 'gun':16 'individu':9 'one':5,11 'ownership':10 'vs':17 'win':6 'would':4 'yes':1"
  +ranking: 0
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  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701724562 {#2282
    date: 2023-12-04 22:16:02.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 196808
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
16 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2278
  +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2662 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3093 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3131 …}
    +slug: "Economic-Theory-is-Fun-tho"
    +title: "Economic Theory is Fun tho."
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/8750849a-e8e8-4b7b-a7f5-73e58d75f155.jpeg"
    +body: null
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      date: 2024-09-29 00:51:21.0 +02:00
    }
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    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3155 …}
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    +children: [
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2298 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293 …}
        +body: """
          Private Property cannot exist without a state. That which gives private property legitimacy is a monopoly of violence, otherwise you have a winner-takes-all might makes right system.\n
          \n
          Collective ownership of property can be enforced via the collective itself, without a need for a governing body.\n
          \n
          Anarchism is certainly idealistic, but Anarcho-Capitalism is *pure fantasy.*
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701719409 {#2252
          date: 2023-12-04 20:50:09.0 +01:00
        }
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        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
          "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2291 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2301 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2297 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2315 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2321 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2310 …}
        -id: 196540
        -bodyTs: "'anarch':49 'anarcho':55 'anarcho-capit':54 'bodi':48 'cannot':3 'capit':56 'certain':51 'collect':31,40 'enforc':37 'exist':4 'fantasi':59 'give':10 'govern':47 'idealist':52 'legitimaci':13 'make':28 'might':27 'monopoli':16 'need':44 'otherwis':19 'ownership':32 'privat':1,11 'properti':2,12,34 'pure':58 'right':29 'state':7 'system':30 'take':25 'via':38 'violenc':18 'winner':24 'winner-takes-al':23 'without':5,42"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701719409 {#2192
          date: 2023-12-04 20:50:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 196540
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2305
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2304 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2303 …}
        +body: "Nah, might makes right for them, lol"
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-12-04 20:51:08.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
          "@JayObey711@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 196545
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6978993"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701719468 {#2308
          date: 2023-12-04 20:51:08.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 196545
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2278}
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2193
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2197 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293 …}
        +body: """
          If everyone has equal ownership, there is no "mono"poly.\n
          \n
          Private ownership requires a monopoly on violence to exist, if you can’t defend it there are no rights.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701744318 {#2194
          date: 2023-12-05 03:45:18.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
          "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2205 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2202 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2210 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2207 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2208 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2204 …}
        -id: 198066
        -bodyTs: "'defend':24 'equal':4 'everyon':2 'exist':19 'mono':9 'monopoli':15 'ownership':5,12 'poli':10 'privat':11 'requir':13 'right':29 'violenc':17"
        +ranking: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6992048"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701744318 {#2195
          date: 2023-12-05 03:45:18.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 198066
      }
    ]
    -id: 19749
    -titleTs: "'econom':1 'fun':4 'theori':2 'tho':5"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1701702870
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.ml/post/8819989"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701616470 {#2780
      date: 2023-12-03 16:14:30.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2276 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293 …}
  +body: "Yes, absolutely. How would one win over with individual ownership? One dude with a couple guns vs an entire community?"
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 1
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701724562 {#2280
    date: 2023-12-04 22:16:02.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
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    "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
    "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
    "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
    "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
    "@PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2279 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2277 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2220 …}
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  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2196 …}
  -id: 196808
  -bodyTs: "'absolut':2 'communiti':20 'coupl':15 'dude':12 'entir':19 'gun':16 'individu':9 'one':5,11 'ownership':10 'vs':17 'win':6 'would':4 'yes':1"
  +ranking: 0
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  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701724562 {#2282
    date: 2023-12-04 22:16:02.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 196808
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
17 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
18 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2193
  +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2662 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3093 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3131 …}
    +slug: "Economic-Theory-is-Fun-tho"
    +title: "Economic Theory is Fun tho."
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/8750849a-e8e8-4b7b-a7f5-73e58d75f155.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
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    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 148
    +favouriteCount: 1081
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    +lastActive: DateTime @1727563881 {#2274
      date: 2024-09-29 00:51:21.0 +02:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3130 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3128 …}
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    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3159 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3155 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3172 …}
    +children: [
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2298 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293 …}
        +body: """
          Private Property cannot exist without a state. That which gives private property legitimacy is a monopoly of violence, otherwise you have a winner-takes-all might makes right system.\n
          \n
          Collective ownership of property can be enforced via the collective itself, without a need for a governing body.\n
          \n
          Anarchism is certainly idealistic, but Anarcho-Capitalism is *pure fantasy.*
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701719409 {#2252
          date: 2023-12-04 20:50:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
          "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2291 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2301 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2297 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2321 …}
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        -id: 196540
        -bodyTs: "'anarch':49 'anarcho':55 'anarcho-capit':54 'bodi':48 'cannot':3 'capit':56 'certain':51 'collect':31,40 'enforc':37 'exist':4 'fantasi':59 'give':10 'govern':47 'idealist':52 'legitimaci':13 'make':28 'might':27 'monopoli':16 'need':44 'otherwis':19 'ownership':32 'privat':1,11 'properti':2,12,34 'pure':58 'right':29 'state':7 'system':30 'take':25 'via':38 'violenc':18 'winner':24 'winner-takes-al':23 'without':5,42"
        +ranking: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701719409 {#2192
          date: 2023-12-04 20:50:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 196540
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2305
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2304 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2303 …}
        +body: "Nah, might makes right for them, lol"
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          "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
          "@JayObey711@lemmy.world"
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          date: 2023-12-04 20:51:08.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 196545
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2278
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
        +image: null
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        +body: "Yes, absolutely. How would one win over with individual ownership? One dude with a couple guns vs an entire community?"
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          "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
          "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2279 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2277 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2220 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2222 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2219 …}
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          date: 2023-12-04 22:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 196808
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2193}
    ]
    -id: 19749
    -titleTs: "'econom':1 'fun':4 'theori':2 'tho':5"
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    +visibility: "visible             "
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    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701616470 {#2780
      date: 2023-12-03 16:14:30.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2197 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293 …}
  +body: """
    If everyone has equal ownership, there is no "mono"poly.\n
    \n
    Private ownership requires a monopoly on violence to exist, if you can’t defend it there are no rights.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
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    date: 2023-12-05 03:45:18.0 +01:00
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    "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
    "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
    "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2205 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2202 …}
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  -id: 198066
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    date: 2023-12-05 03:45:18.0 +01:00
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
19 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2193
  +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2662 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3093 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3131 …}
    +slug: "Economic-Theory-is-Fun-tho"
    +title: "Economic Theory is Fun tho."
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/8750849a-e8e8-4b7b-a7f5-73e58d75f155.jpeg"
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      date: 2024-09-29 00:51:21.0 +02:00
    }
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3130 …}
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    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3159 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3155 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3172 …}
    +children: [
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2298 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293 …}
        +body: """
          Private Property cannot exist without a state. That which gives private property legitimacy is a monopoly of violence, otherwise you have a winner-takes-all might makes right system.\n
          \n
          Collective ownership of property can be enforced via the collective itself, without a need for a governing body.\n
          \n
          Anarchism is certainly idealistic, but Anarcho-Capitalism is *pure fantasy.*
          """
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          "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
          "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
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        -id: 196540
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          date: 2023-12-04 20:50:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 196540
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2305
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
        +image: null
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        +body: "Nah, might makes right for them, lol"
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
          "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
          "@JayObey711@lemmy.world"
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          date: 2023-12-04 20:51:08.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 196545
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2278
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
        +image: null
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        +body: "Yes, absolutely. How would one win over with individual ownership? One dude with a couple guns vs an entire community?"
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          date: 2023-12-04 22:16:02.0 +01:00
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          "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
          "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        +"title": 196808
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2193}
    ]
    -id: 19749
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701616470 {#2780
      date: 2023-12-03 16:14:30.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2197 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293 …}
  +body: """
    If everyone has equal ownership, there is no "mono"poly.\n
    \n
    Private ownership requires a monopoly on violence to exist, if you can’t defend it there are no rights.
    """
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  +isAdult: false
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    "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
    "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
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  ]
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
20 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2193
  +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2662 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3093 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3131 …}
    +slug: "Economic-Theory-is-Fun-tho"
    +title: "Economic Theory is Fun tho."
    +url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/8750849a-e8e8-4b7b-a7f5-73e58d75f155.jpeg"
    +body: null
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      date: 2024-09-29 00:51:21.0 +02:00
    }
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2189
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2298 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293 …}
        +body: """
          Private Property cannot exist without a state. That which gives private property legitimacy is a monopoly of violence, otherwise you have a winner-takes-all might makes right system.\n
          \n
          Collective ownership of property can be enforced via the collective itself, without a need for a governing body.\n
          \n
          Anarchism is certainly idealistic, but Anarcho-Capitalism is *pure fantasy.*
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-12-04 20:50:09.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 196540
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2305
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2304 …}
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        +body: "Nah, might makes right for them, lol"
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          date: 2023-12-04 20:51:08.0 +01:00
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          "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
          "@JayObey711@lemmy.world"
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          date: 2023-12-04 20:51:08.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 196545
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2278
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2299 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
        +image: null
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293 …}
        +body: "Yes, absolutely. How would one win over with individual ownership? One dude with a couple guns vs an entire community?"
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          date: 2023-12-04 22:16:02.0 +01:00
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          "@Grayox@lemmy.ml"
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          "@PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-12-04 22:16:02.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 196808
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2193}
    ]
    -id: 19749
    -titleTs: "'econom':1 'fun':4 'theori':2 'tho':5"
    -bodyTs: null
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      date: 2023-12-03 16:14:30.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2311 …}
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  +body: """
    If everyone has equal ownership, there is no "mono"poly.\n
    \n
    Private ownership requires a monopoly on violence to exist, if you can’t defend it there are no rights.
    """
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    "@lolcatnip@reddthat.com"
    "@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today"
    "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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  +"title": 198066
}
 
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22 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571
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  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3174 …}
  +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
  +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
  +url: "https://infosec.pub/pictrs/image/32c79e75-7296-4275-9f35-6cfa1a74709c.webp"
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    18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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      +body: """
        You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
        \n
        In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
        """
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      -id: 180620
      -bodyTs: "'arbitrari':4 'capit':15 'capitalist':21 'chain':6 'control':19,35 'depict':8 'economi':33 'everyon':37 'follow':2 'form':10 'fraction':26 'logic':5 'market':17 'minor':25 'one':9 'popul':29 'repres':23 'social':12,31 'yes':13"
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        date: 2023-11-30 13:33:33.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 180620
    }
    17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
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      +body: """
        I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
        \n
        Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
        \n
        The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
        \n
        The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
        \n
        People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
        \n
        Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
        \n
        All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
        \n
        My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
        """
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        date: 2023-11-30 13:43:12.0 +01:00
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        "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
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        "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
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        date: 2023-11-30 13:43:12.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 180639
    }
    16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
      +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
      +lang: "en"
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        date: 2023-11-30 14:32:15.0 +01:00
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        "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
        "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
        "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
        "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
      ]
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      -id: 180771
      -bodyTs: "'anoth':31 'classless':10 'communism':21,47 'ever':16 'genuin':2 'great':23 'heard':17,45 'imagin':6 'moneyless':11 'never':43 'peopl':18 'practic':36 'reason':29 'say':19 'societi':12 'sound':22 'stateless':9 'support':38 'theori':25,52 'unpleas':4,50 've':14,42 'work':34"
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    15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
      +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
      +lang: "en"
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        "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
        "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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        "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
      ]
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      -id: 180838
      -bodyTs: "'autom':11,13 'capit':7 'direct':25 'ensur':35 'eventu':5,16 'goe':38 'great':3 'import':33 'increas':12 'job':20 'learn':42 'loss':21 'mass':19 'mistak':52 'necessari':6 'outlast':10 'past':47 'product':14 'repeat':50 'result':17 'societi':27 'stagnat':23 'transit':37,44 'unless':24 'well':39 'whole':30"
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    14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
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      +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
      +lang: "en"
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        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        "@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works"
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      -id: 180921
      -bodyTs: "'capit':24 'continu':22 'differ':9 'good':13 'look':7 'mani':12 'may':6 'much':2 'none':16 'outcom':14 'pretti':1 'star':4 'though':3 'trek':5 'wild':8"
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      +"title": 180921
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    13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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      +body: """
        That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
        \n
        If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
        """
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        "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
        "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
        "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
        "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
      ]
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      -id: 181161
      -bodyTs: "'answer':31 'attempt':44 'claim':9,21,37 'communism':46,54 'doesn':29 'exist':43 'initi':8,33 'invari':24 'issu':66 'lead':25 'question':34 'rather':52 'regardless':18 'shit':27 'theori':5 'think':16,50,59 'though':6 'truli':39 'unpleas':14,48,57 'word':68"
      +ranking: 0
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      +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6804844"
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701358751 {#2364
        date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 181161
    }
    12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
      +body: """
        Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
        \n
        Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
        \n
        Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
        """
      +lang: "en"
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        date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
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        "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
        "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
        "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
        "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
      ]
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      -bodyTs: "'addit':51 'came':38 'capit':1,31,42 'cours':50 'declin':4 'fact':53 'factor':19 'factori':37 'go':29 'industri':24 'm':45 'misunderstand':46 'necessit':61 'never':26 'one':55 'point':48 'predict':56,64 'product':6 'rather':32 'respect':16 'rise':35,40 'roof':10 'seen':27 'sens':22 'stagnat':14 'though':5 'undeni':3 'unless':43 'wage':12 'wrong':58,66"
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        date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 181173
    }
    11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1405 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
      +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 2
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        date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
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        "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
        "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
        "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
        "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
      ]
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      -id: 181175
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        date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 181175
    }
    10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2018 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
      +body: """
        It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
        \n
        Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
        """
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        date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
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        "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
        "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
        "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
        "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2025 …}
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      -id: 181250
      -bodyTs: "'also':3 'backbon':9 'benign':28 'broad':21,39 'capit':18,35 'democraci':17 'evil':25 'germani':13 'histori':31 'incred':20 'isn':41 'maoism':49 'modern':15 'nazi':12 'reli':33 'similar':37 'social':16,36 'stalin':47 'state':29 'synonym':45 'worst':5"
      +ranking: 0
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701360171 {#2024
        date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 181250
    }
    9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2075 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
      +body: """
        To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
        \n
        It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
        """
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      +isAdult: false
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        date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
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        "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
        "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
        "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
        "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2061 …}
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      -id: 181956
      -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
      +ranking: 0
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        date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 181956
    }
    8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
      +body: """
        Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
        \n
        Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
        """
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        date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
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        "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
        "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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        "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
      ]
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      -id: 182421
      -bodyTs: "'absurd':36 'actual':33 'caus':18 'claim':37 'collabor':52 'decentr':51 'democrat':54 'evil':22 'foss':60 'guest':29 'idea':49 'lemmi':64 'love':47,59 'mystic':15 'peopl':19 'person':45 'plan':4 'properti':16 'prove':10 'rather':65 'realiti':6,39 'reddit':67 'share':25 'theori':1 'though':40 'tie':34 'tool':12 'turn':21 'won':43"
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      +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6819730"
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701384960 {#2098
        date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 182421
    }
    7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2129 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1527 …}
      +body: """
        You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
        \n
        Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
        \n
        You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
        \n
        Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
        \n
        All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
        """
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        date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
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        "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
        "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        "@mojo@lemm.ee"
        "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
        "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
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      -id: 182444
      -bodyTs: "'30s':53 'actual':187 'agricultur':60 'anyth':178 'argu':177 'assum':118 'bad':175 'basket':65 'botch':57 'bread':64 'butcher':112 'cannot':153 'capit':93,94 'care':188 'civil':46 'clear':183 'coher':179 'collect':125 'collectiv':58 'combat':76 'compar':5 'complet':34,111 'continu':3 'control':122,126,133 'countri':19 'decentr':83 'definit':114,191 'develop':8,18 'disingenu':35 'enforc':148 'even':164 'everi':29 'exampl':166 'exist':105 'famin':50 'firm':85 'found':44 'frustrat':174 'fulli':7 'go':108 'graph':37 'horribl':56 'ideal':88 'ie':149 'incompat':91 'invad':66 'major':74 'mean':120,129 'mere':135 'monopoli':144 'nazi':79 'never':11 'one':136 'oppos':27 'otherwis':101 'path':137 'power':100 'privat':140,155 'product':131 'proper':190 'properti':141,156 'prove':167 'rather':123 're':2,173 'requir':95,142 'rest':21 'skin':13 'social':116,139 'socialist':87 'state':121,132,151,163 'steadi':82 'step':30 'still':33 'superpow':9 'threat':158 'took':71 'tri':25 'ussr':42 'via':161 'violenc':146,160 'volatil':39 'war':47 'without':157 'worker':97 'world':24 'wouldn':103 'wwii':15,68"
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        date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 182444
    }
    6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
      +body: """
        Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
        \n
        Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
        """
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      +isAdult: false
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        date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
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        "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
        "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
        "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
        "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2060 …}
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      -id: 182450
      -bodyTs: "'1900s':13 'acknowledg':53 'capit':4,18 'countri':6 'decentr':57 'decid':38 'democraci':55 'develop':1,8 'everyth':49 'favor':20 'form':23 'get':31 'good':59 'group':35 'one':16,46 'own':48 'ownership':44 'peopl':30,37 'person':47 'reject':17 'richer':32 'right':42 'social':25 'think':28"
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701385499 {#2349
        date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 182450
    }
    5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
      +body: """
        They are.\n
        \n
        To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
        \n
        Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
        \n
        Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
        \n
        Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
        """
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        date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
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        "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
        "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
        "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
        "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
      ]
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      -id: 184617
      -bodyTs: "'affirm':57 'also':79 'apolog':162 'argu':4 'belief':175 'believ':68,80 'better':135 'capit':6,47 'capitalist':99,126,136 'chip':124 'choos':39 'claim':167 'comparison':96 'compet':44 'concept':37,107 'control':16,23,53,59,72,100 'decentr':109 'deliber':144 'democrat':15,111 'dictatori':22,71 'direct':91 'either':84,127 'exist':87 'favor':20,115 'flaw':147 'glove':155 'good':118,129 'growth':82 'hand':62 'highest':43 'highlight':145 'hold':173 'idea':13 'input':138 'kid':154 'logic':169 'men':119 'meritocraci':29 'must':10,78 'mystic':36 'necess':171 'non':86 'non-exist':85 'ownership':33 'pale':94 'peopl':130 'pretend':31 'product':101,113 'productuon':18 'put':121,152 'reject':11,50,105 'replac':133 'similar':66 'social':8 'theori':120 'therefor':102 'think':150 'thus':55 'typic':77 'ultim':46 'whitewash':26 'without':137,151 'won':160 'worker':52,90,141 'worth':74 'yes':157"
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        date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 184617
    }
    4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2068 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
      +body: """
        Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
        \n
        Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 3
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        date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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      +ip: null
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        "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
        "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
        "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
        "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2072 …}
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      -id: 184658
      -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
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      +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6843490"
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        date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 184658
    }
    3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
      +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
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        date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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      -id: 187261
      -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
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        date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 187261
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    2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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      +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
      +lang: "en"
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        date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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      -id: 188584
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        date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 188584
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    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2113 …}
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      +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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      -id: 190429
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        date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 190429
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    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2224 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
      +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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   …2
}
 
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23 DENIED edit 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2684 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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  +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
  +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
  +url: "https://infosec.pub/pictrs/image/32c79e75-7296-4275-9f35-6cfa1a74709c.webp"
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  +children: [
    18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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      +body: """
        You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
        \n
        In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
        """
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      -id: 180620
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    17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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      +body: """
        I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
        \n
        Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
        \n
        The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
        \n
        The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
        \n
        People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
        \n
        Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
        \n
        All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
        \n
        My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
        """
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        date: 2023-11-30 13:43:12.0 +01:00
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    16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
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      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
      +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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        "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
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      -id: 180771
      -bodyTs: "'anoth':31 'classless':10 'communism':21,47 'ever':16 'genuin':2 'great':23 'heard':17,45 'imagin':6 'moneyless':11 'never':43 'peopl':18 'practic':36 'reason':29 'say':19 'societi':12 'sound':22 'stateless':9 'support':38 'theori':25,52 'unpleas':4,50 've':14,42 'work':34"
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        date: 2023-11-30 14:32:15.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 180771
    }
    15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1737 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
      +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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        "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
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      -id: 180838
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    14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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      +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
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        "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
        "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
        "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
        "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        "@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works"
      ]
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      -id: 180921
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        date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 180921
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    13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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      +body: """
        That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
        \n
        If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
        """
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        date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
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        "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
        "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
        "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
        "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
      ]
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        date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 181161
    }
    12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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      +body: """
        Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
        \n
        Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
        \n
        Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
        """
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        date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
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        "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
        "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
        "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
        "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
      ]
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      -bodyTs: "'addit':51 'came':38 'capit':1,31,42 'cours':50 'declin':4 'fact':53 'factor':19 'factori':37 'go':29 'industri':24 'm':45 'misunderstand':46 'necessit':61 'never':26 'one':55 'point':48 'predict':56,64 'product':6 'rather':32 'respect':16 'rise':35,40 'roof':10 'seen':27 'sens':22 'stagnat':14 'though':5 'undeni':3 'unless':43 'wage':12 'wrong':58,66"
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        date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 181173
    }
    11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1405 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
      +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
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        date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
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        "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
        "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
        "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
      ]
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        date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 181175
    }
    10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
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      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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      +body: """
        It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
        \n
        Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
        """
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        date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
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        "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
        "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
        "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
        "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
      ]
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      -id: 181250
      -bodyTs: "'also':3 'backbon':9 'benign':28 'broad':21,39 'capit':18,35 'democraci':17 'evil':25 'germani':13 'histori':31 'incred':20 'isn':41 'maoism':49 'modern':15 'nazi':12 'reli':33 'similar':37 'social':16,36 'stalin':47 'state':29 'synonym':45 'worst':5"
      +ranking: 0
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        date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 181250
    }
    9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2075 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
      +body: """
        To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
        \n
        It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
        """
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        date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
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        "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
        "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
        "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
        "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
      ]
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      -id: 181956
      -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
      +ranking: 0
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        date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 181956
    }
    8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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      +body: """
        Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
        \n
        Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
        """
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        date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
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        "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
        "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
        "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
        "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
      ]
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      -id: 182421
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      +ranking: 0
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        date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 182421
    }
    7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2129 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1527 …}
      +body: """
        You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
        \n
        Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
        \n
        You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
        \n
        Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
        \n
        All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
        """
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        date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
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        "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
        "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        "@mojo@lemm.ee"
        "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
        "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
      ]
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        date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 182444
    }
    6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
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      +body: """
        Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
        \n
        Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
        """
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      +isAdult: false
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        date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
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        "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
        "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
        "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
        "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
      ]
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        date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 182450
    }
    5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
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      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
      +body: """
        They are.\n
        \n
        To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
        \n
        Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
        \n
        Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
        \n
        Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
        """
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        "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
        "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
        "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
      ]
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      -id: 184617
      -bodyTs: "'affirm':57 'also':79 'apolog':162 'argu':4 'belief':175 'believ':68,80 'better':135 'capit':6,47 'capitalist':99,126,136 'chip':124 'choos':39 'claim':167 'comparison':96 'compet':44 'concept':37,107 'control':16,23,53,59,72,100 'decentr':109 'deliber':144 'democrat':15,111 'dictatori':22,71 'direct':91 'either':84,127 'exist':87 'favor':20,115 'flaw':147 'glove':155 'good':118,129 'growth':82 'hand':62 'highest':43 'highlight':145 'hold':173 'idea':13 'input':138 'kid':154 'logic':169 'men':119 'meritocraci':29 'must':10,78 'mystic':36 'necess':171 'non':86 'non-exist':85 'ownership':33 'pale':94 'peopl':130 'pretend':31 'product':101,113 'productuon':18 'put':121,152 'reject':11,50,105 'replac':133 'similar':66 'social':8 'theori':120 'therefor':102 'think':150 'thus':55 'typic':77 'ultim':46 'whitewash':26 'without':137,151 'won':160 'worker':52,90,141 'worth':74 'yes':157"
      +ranking: 0
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      +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6843092"
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701435846 {#2324
        date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 184617
    }
    4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2068 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
      +body: """
        Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
        \n
        Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 3
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701437102 {#2136
        date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
        "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
        "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
        "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2072 …}
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      -id: 184658
      -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
      +ranking: 0
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701437102 {#2137
        date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 184658
    }
    3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
      +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 1
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        date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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        "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
        "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
        "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
        "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2057 …}
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      -id: 187261
      -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
      +ranking: 0
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701479894 {#2046
        date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 187261
    }
    2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2111 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
      +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 0
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        date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
      }
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        "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
        "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
        "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
        "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2101 …}
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      -id: 188584
      -bodyTs: "'becom':32 'come':18 'develop':20 'distribut':22 'everyth':5 'free':7 'get':4 'handl':24 'high':12 'longer':36 'necessari':37 'peopl':1 'practic':16 'product':9 'socialist':27 'state':28 'typic':29 'vestigi':33"
      +ranking: 0
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701515310 {#2105
        date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 188584
    }
    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2113 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
      +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
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        date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
      }
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        "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
        "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
        "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
        "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2123 …}
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      -id: 190429
      -bodyTs: "'achiev':35 'autom':11 'chore':18 'collect':47 'communism':32 'definit':25 'doesn':5 'except':44 'futurist':27 'get':13 'goal':28 'howev':19 'individu':50 'industri':45 'like':3 'modern':42 'nope':1 'own':51 'rather':48 'requir':7 'resourc':9 'scale':23 'similar':40 'social':37 'societ':22 'societi':43 'unlimit':8"
      +ranking: 0
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      +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6902320"
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701567630 {#2122
        date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 190429
    }
    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2224 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
      +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
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        date: 2023-12-03 04:41:34.0 +01:00
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        "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
        "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
        "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
        "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2198 …}
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      -id: 191002
      -bodyTs: "'achiev':45 'answer':12 'communism':35 'communist':42 'first':47 'focus':43 'global':7 'happen':4 'incent':26 'isn':19 'know':33 'like':38 'look':37 'marx':29 'must':36 'never':30 'numer':11 'pretend':31 'question':15 'read':27 'remov':24 'scale':8 'simpl':22 'social':46 'theori':28 'transit':53 'well':52"
      +ranking: 0
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        date: 2023-12-03 04:41:34.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 191002
    }
  ]
  -id: 18115
  -titleTs: "'balmer':2 'quot':3 'steve':1"
  -bodyTs: null
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  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701246597 {#2914
    date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
24 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2684 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2671 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3174 …}
  +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
  +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
  +url: "https://infosec.pub/pictrs/image/32c79e75-7296-4275-9f35-6cfa1a74709c.webp"
  +body: null
  +type: "link"
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    date: 2023-12-09 05:51:58.0 +01:00
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  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3175 …}
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  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3189 …}
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  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3193 …}
  +children: [
    18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1679 …}
      +body: """
        You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
        \n
        In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
        """
      +lang: "en"
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        "@Neon@lemmy.world"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
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      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1668 …}
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      -id: 180620
      -bodyTs: "'arbitrari':4 'capit':15 'capitalist':21 'chain':6 'control':19,35 'depict':8 'economi':33 'everyon':37 'follow':2 'form':10 'fraction':26 'logic':5 'market':17 'minor':25 'one':9 'popul':29 'repres':23 'social':12,31 'yes':13"
      +ranking: 0
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        date: 2023-11-30 13:33:33.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 180620
    }
    17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1567 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1527 …}
      +body: """
        I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
        \n
        Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
        \n
        The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
        \n
        The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
        \n
        People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
        \n
        Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
        \n
        All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
        \n
        My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
        """
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        "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
        "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
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      -id: 180639
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      +ranking: 0
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701348192 {#1550
        date: 2023-11-30 13:43:12.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 180639
    }
    16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
      +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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        date: 2023-11-30 14:32:15.0 +01:00
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        "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
        "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
        "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
        "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
      ]
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      -id: 180771
      -bodyTs: "'anoth':31 'classless':10 'communism':21,47 'ever':16 'genuin':2 'great':23 'heard':17,45 'imagin':6 'moneyless':11 'never':43 'peopl':18 'practic':36 'reason':29 'say':19 'societi':12 'sound':22 'stateless':9 'support':38 'theori':25,52 'unpleas':4,50 've':14,42 'work':34"
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        date: 2023-11-30 14:32:15.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 180771
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    15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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      +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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        date: 2023-11-30 14:58:18.0 +01:00
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        "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
        "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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        "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
      ]
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      -id: 180838
      -bodyTs: "'autom':11,13 'capit':7 'direct':25 'ensur':35 'eventu':5,16 'goe':38 'great':3 'import':33 'increas':12 'job':20 'learn':42 'loss':21 'mass':19 'mistak':52 'necessari':6 'outlast':10 'past':47 'product':14 'repeat':50 'result':17 'societi':27 'stagnat':23 'transit':37,44 'unless':24 'well':39 'whole':30"
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        date: 2023-11-30 14:58:18.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 180838
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    14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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      +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
      +lang: "en"
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        date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
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        "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
        "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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        "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        "@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works"
      ]
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        date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
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    13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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      +body: """
        That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
        \n
        If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
        """
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        date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
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        "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
        "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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      -id: 181161
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        date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 181161
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    12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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      +body: """
        Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
        \n
        Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
        \n
        Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
        """
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        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
      ]
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      -id: 181173
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    11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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      +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
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        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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      -id: 181175
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        date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 181175
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    10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
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      +body: """
        It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
        \n
        Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
        """
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        "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
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      -id: 181250
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    9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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      +body: """
        To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
        \n
        It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
        """
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        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
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    8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
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      +body: """
        Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
        \n
        Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
        """
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        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
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        date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
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    7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
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      +body: """
        You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
        \n
        Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
        \n
        You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
        \n
        Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
        \n
        All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
        """
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        "@mojo@lemm.ee"
        "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
        "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
      ]
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      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701385345 {#2130
        date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 182444
    }
    6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
      +body: """
        Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
        \n
        Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
        """
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        date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
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        "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
        "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
        "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
        "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
      ]
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      -id: 182450
      -bodyTs: "'1900s':13 'acknowledg':53 'capit':4,18 'countri':6 'decentr':57 'decid':38 'democraci':55 'develop':1,8 'everyth':49 'favor':20 'form':23 'get':31 'good':59 'group':35 'one':16,46 'own':48 'ownership':44 'peopl':30,37 'person':47 'reject':17 'richer':32 'right':42 'social':25 'think':28"
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701385499 {#2349
        date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 182450
    }
    5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
      +body: """
        They are.\n
        \n
        To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
        \n
        Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
        \n
        Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
        \n
        Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
        """
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        "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
        "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
        "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
      ]
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      -id: 184617
      -bodyTs: "'affirm':57 'also':79 'apolog':162 'argu':4 'belief':175 'believ':68,80 'better':135 'capit':6,47 'capitalist':99,126,136 'chip':124 'choos':39 'claim':167 'comparison':96 'compet':44 'concept':37,107 'control':16,23,53,59,72,100 'decentr':109 'deliber':144 'democrat':15,111 'dictatori':22,71 'direct':91 'either':84,127 'exist':87 'favor':20,115 'flaw':147 'glove':155 'good':118,129 'growth':82 'hand':62 'highest':43 'highlight':145 'hold':173 'idea':13 'input':138 'kid':154 'logic':169 'men':119 'meritocraci':29 'must':10,78 'mystic':36 'necess':171 'non':86 'non-exist':85 'ownership':33 'pale':94 'peopl':130 'pretend':31 'product':101,113 'productuon':18 'put':121,152 'reject':11,50,105 'replac':133 'similar':66 'social':8 'theori':120 'therefor':102 'think':150 'thus':55 'typic':77 'ultim':46 'whitewash':26 'without':137,151 'won':160 'worker':52,90,141 'worth':74 'yes':157"
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701435846 {#2324
        date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 184617
    }
    4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2068 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
      +body: """
        Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
        \n
        Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 3
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        date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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        "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
        "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
        "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
        "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2072 …}
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        date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 184658
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    3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
      +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
      +lang: "en"
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        date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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        "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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        "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
      ]
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      -id: 187261
      -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
      +ranking: 0
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701479894 {#2046
        date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 187261
    }
    2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2111 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
      +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
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        date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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        "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
        "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
        "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
      ]
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      -id: 188584
      -bodyTs: "'becom':32 'come':18 'develop':20 'distribut':22 'everyth':5 'free':7 'get':4 'handl':24 'high':12 'longer':36 'necessari':37 'peopl':1 'practic':16 'product':9 'socialist':27 'state':28 'typic':29 'vestigi':33"
      +ranking: 0
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701515310 {#2105
        date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 188584
    }
    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2113 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
      +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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        date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
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        "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
        "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
        "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
      ]
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      -id: 190429
      -bodyTs: "'achiev':35 'autom':11 'chore':18 'collect':47 'communism':32 'definit':25 'doesn':5 'except':44 'futurist':27 'get':13 'goal':28 'howev':19 'individu':50 'industri':45 'like':3 'modern':42 'nope':1 'own':51 'rather':48 'requir':7 'resourc':9 'scale':23 'similar':40 'social':37 'societ':22 'societi':43 'unlimit':8"
      +ranking: 0
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        date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 190429
    }
    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2224 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
      +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
      +lang: "en"
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        "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
        "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
        "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
      ]
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      -id: 191002
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      +"title": 191002
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  ]
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    date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
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26 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
  +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3174 …}
    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
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    +type: "link"
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    +children: [
      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696}
      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
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          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
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        -bodyTs: "'30s':6,35 '70s':8 'account':257 'achiev':340 'acknowledg':296 'activ':134 'actual':14 'also':267,293 'anoth':76 'attempt':158 'cannot':337 'capit':348 'cartoonish':189 'central':251,333 'civil':28 'collectiv':40,42 'combat':332 'combin':54 'common':209 'communiti':232 'comparison':141 'control':106,334 'countri':124 'damag':99 'decad':83 'decentr':321 'democrat':250 'develop':123,128 'didn':194 'dodg':95 'drop':18,77 'due':26,36 'economi':110 'enforc':234 'equal':310 'even':150 'excel':329 'expect':16 'export':103 'fair':140 'fals':192 'famin':38 'fantast':324 'far':68,132,146,172 'flaw':254 'food':48 'format':22 'free':56 'global':109 'good':198 'growth':90 'healthcar':57 'high':253 'hold':206 'horribl':272 'hous':60,148 'howev':290,335 'idea':182 'imo':142 'imperi':104 'import':294 'initi':61 'insan':89 'issu':203 'jump':52 'katyn':278 'last':82 'le':17,51,66,79 'learn':282,311 'life':15 'like':276,347 'littl':202 'lower':69 'luxuri':197 'manag':93 'mani':298 'mass':59 'massacr':279 'meaning':339 'near':126 'necess':205 'never':287 'nowher':125 'opinion':318 'ownership':207 'part':299 'peopl':167 'period':11 'politburo':263 'post':72 'post-ussr':71 'pre':64 'pre-ussr':63 'privat':219 'pro':243 'pro-ussr':242 'problem':149,162 'process':248 'properti':220,227 'public':226 'refer':4 'reign':117 'repeat':288 'requir':222 'right':221 'role':135 'secur':49 'sharpli':19,53 'societi':218 'solidifi':113 'solv':160 'stalin':269 'state':224 'stateless':217 'succeed':316 'superpow':118 'sustain':264 'system':346 'thing':325 'think':246,268 'thug':273 'time':10 'today':151 'top':187,344 'top-down':343 'tragedi':275 'tsar':179 'us':87,144,164 'ussr':25,46,65,73,120,154,157,170,244,302 'war':29 'wasn':2 'way':213,330 'wealthi':190 'work':304 'worker':260 'wors':147 'wwi':31 'wwii':44,101,137"
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:43:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180639
      }
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
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        +image: null
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:32:15.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 180771
        -bodyTs: "'anoth':31 'classless':10 'communism':21,47 'ever':16 'genuin':2 'great':23 'heard':17,45 'imagin':6 'moneyless':11 'never':43 'peopl':18 'practic':36 'reason':29 'say':19 'societi':12 'sound':22 'stateless':9 'support':38 'theori':25,52 'unpleas':4,50 've':14,42 'work':34"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:32:15.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180771
      }
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1737 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:58:18.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 180838
        -bodyTs: "'autom':11,13 'capit':7 'direct':25 'ensur':35 'eventu':5,16 'goe':38 'great':3 'import':33 'increas':12 'job':20 'learn':42 'loss':21 'mass':19 'mistak':52 'necessari':6 'outlast':10 'past':47 'product':14 'repeat':50 'result':17 'societi':27 'stagnat':23 'transit':37,44 'unless':24 'well':39 'whole':30"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:58:18.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180838
      }
      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
          "@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 180921
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180921
      }
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 181161
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181161
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 181173
        -bodyTs: "'addit':51 'came':38 'capit':1,31,42 'cours':50 'declin':4 'fact':53 'factor':19 'factori':37 'go':29 'industri':24 'm':45 'misunderstand':46 'necessit':61 'never':26 'one':55 'point':48 'predict':56,64 'product':6 'rather':32 'respect':16 'rise':35,40 'roof':10 'seen':27 'sens':22 'stagnat':14 'though':5 'undeni':3 'unless':43 'wage':12 'wrong':58,66"
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181173
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 181175
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181175
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 181250
        -bodyTs: "'also':3 'backbon':9 'benign':28 'broad':21,39 'capit':18,35 'democraci':17 'evil':25 'germani':13 'histori':31 'incred':20 'isn':41 'maoism':49 'modern':15 'nazi':12 'reli':33 'similar':37 'social':16,36 'stalin':47 'state':29 'synonym':45 'worst':5"
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181250
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 182421
        -bodyTs: "'absurd':36 'actual':33 'caus':18 'claim':37 'collabor':52 'decentr':51 'democrat':54 'evil':22 'foss':60 'guest':29 'idea':49 'lemmi':64 'love':47,59 'mystic':15 'peopl':19 'person':45 'plan':4 'properti':16 'prove':10 'rather':65 'realiti':6,39 'reddit':67 'share':25 'theori':1 'though':40 'tie':34 'tool':12 'turn':21 'won':43"
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2129 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1527 …}
        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
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          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 182444
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182444
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 182450
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
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      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2072 …}
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 188584
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        +"title": 188584
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 190429
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        }
        +"title": 190429
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 191002
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        +"title": 191002
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    ]
    -id: 18115
    -titleTs: "'balmer':2 'quot':3 'steve':1"
    -bodyTs: null
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
    \n
    In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
    """
  +lang: "en"
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    date: 2023-11-30 13:33:33.0 +01:00
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    "@Neon@lemmy.world"
    "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
    "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
  ]
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  -id: 180620
  -bodyTs: "'arbitrari':4 'capit':15 'capitalist':21 'chain':6 'control':19,35 'depict':8 'economi':33 'everyon':37 'follow':2 'form':10 'fraction':26 'logic':5 'market':17 'minor':25 'one':9 'popul':29 'repres':23 'social':12,31 'yes':13"
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    date: 2023-11-30 13:33:33.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 180620
}
 
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27 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
    +url: "https://infosec.pub/pictrs/image/32c79e75-7296-4275-9f35-6cfa1a74709c.webp"
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      date: 2023-12-09 05:51:58.0 +01:00
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      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696}
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:43:12.0 +01:00
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 180771
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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        -id: 180838
        -bodyTs: "'autom':11,13 'capit':7 'direct':25 'ensur':35 'eventu':5,16 'goe':38 'great':3 'import':33 'increas':12 'job':20 'learn':42 'loss':21 'mass':19 'mistak':52 'necessari':6 'outlast':10 'past':47 'product':14 'repeat':50 'result':17 'societi':27 'stagnat':23 'transit':37,44 'unless':24 'well':39 'whole':30"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:58:18.0 +01:00
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
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        -id: 180921
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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        -id: 181161
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        +"title": 181161
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
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        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2080 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 182421
        -bodyTs: "'absurd':36 'actual':33 'caus':18 'claim':37 'collabor':52 'decentr':51 'democrat':54 'evil':22 'foss':60 'guest':29 'idea':49 'lemmi':64 'love':47,59 'mystic':15 'peopl':19 'person':45 'plan':4 'properti':16 'prove':10 'rather':65 'realiti':6,39 'reddit':67 'share':25 'theori':1 'though':40 'tie':34 'tool':12 'turn':21 'won':43"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701384960 {#2098
          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 182444
        -bodyTs: "'30s':53 'actual':187 'agricultur':60 'anyth':178 'argu':177 'assum':118 'bad':175 'basket':65 'botch':57 'bread':64 'butcher':112 'cannot':153 'capit':93,94 'care':188 'civil':46 'clear':183 'coher':179 'collect':125 'collectiv':58 'combat':76 'compar':5 'complet':34,111 'continu':3 'control':122,126,133 'countri':19 'decentr':83 'definit':114,191 'develop':8,18 'disingenu':35 'enforc':148 'even':164 'everi':29 'exampl':166 'exist':105 'famin':50 'firm':85 'found':44 'frustrat':174 'fulli':7 'go':108 'graph':37 'horribl':56 'ideal':88 'ie':149 'incompat':91 'invad':66 'major':74 'mean':120,129 'mere':135 'monopoli':144 'nazi':79 'never':11 'one':136 'oppos':27 'otherwis':101 'path':137 'power':100 'privat':140,155 'product':131 'proper':190 'properti':141,156 'prove':167 'rather':123 're':2,173 'requir':95,142 'rest':21 'skin':13 'social':116,139 'socialist':87 'state':121,132,151,163 'steadi':82 'step':30 'still':33 'superpow':9 'threat':158 'took':71 'tri':25 'ussr':42 'via':161 'violenc':146,160 'volatil':39 'war':47 'without':157 'worker':97 'world':24 'wouldn':103 'wwii':15,68"
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182444
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
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        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 182450
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
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        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184617
        -bodyTs: "'affirm':57 'also':79 'apolog':162 'argu':4 'belief':175 'believ':68,80 'better':135 'capit':6,47 'capitalist':99,126,136 'chip':124 'choos':39 'claim':167 'comparison':96 'compet':44 'concept':37,107 'control':16,23,53,59,72,100 'decentr':109 'deliber':144 'democrat':15,111 'dictatori':22,71 'direct':91 'either':84,127 'exist':87 'favor':20,115 'flaw':147 'glove':155 'good':118,129 'growth':82 'hand':62 'highest':43 'highlight':145 'hold':173 'idea':13 'input':138 'kid':154 'logic':169 'men':119 'meritocraci':29 'must':10,78 'mystic':36 'necess':171 'non':86 'non-exist':85 'ownership':33 'pale':94 'peopl':130 'pretend':31 'product':101,113 'productuon':18 'put':121,152 'reject':11,50,105 'replac':133 'similar':66 'social':8 'theori':120 'therefor':102 'think':150 'thus':55 'typic':77 'ultim':46 'whitewash':26 'without':137,151 'won':160 'worker':52,90,141 'worth':74 'yes':157"
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
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        +"title": 184658
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 187261
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
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        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 188584
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 188584
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 190429
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':35 'autom':11 'chore':18 'collect':47 'communism':32 'definit':25 'doesn':5 'except':44 'futurist':27 'get':13 'goal':28 'howev':19 'individu':50 'industri':45 'like':3 'modern':42 'nope':1 'own':51 'rather':48 'requir':7 'resourc':9 'scale':23 'similar':40 'social':37 'societ':22 'societi':43 'unlimit':8"
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          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 190429
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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     …2
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  +body: """
    You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
    \n
    In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
    """
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28 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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        -id: 180771
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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        -id: 180838
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1405 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1385 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2019 …}
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        -id: 181175
        -bodyTs: "'accur':12 'invari':18 'issu':7 'revolut':16 'say':14 'shit':21 'though':8 'turn':19 'word':6"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701358956 {#1383
          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181175
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2018 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2025 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2013 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2035 …}
        -id: 181250
        -bodyTs: "'also':3 'backbon':9 'benign':28 'broad':21,39 'capit':18,35 'democraci':17 'evil':25 'germani':13 'histori':31 'incred':20 'isn':41 'maoism':49 'modern':15 'nazi':12 'reli':33 'similar':37 'social':16,36 'stalin':47 'state':29 'synonym':45 'worst':5"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701360171 {#2024
          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181250
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2075 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 7
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701375225 {#2036
          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2061 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2084 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2085 …}
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6814971"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701375225 {#2037
          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2080 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2064 …}
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        -id: 182421
        -bodyTs: "'absurd':36 'actual':33 'caus':18 'claim':37 'collabor':52 'decentr':51 'democrat':54 'evil':22 'foss':60 'guest':29 'idea':49 'lemmi':64 'love':47,59 'mystic':15 'peopl':19 'person':45 'plan':4 'properti':16 'prove':10 'rather':65 'realiti':6,39 'reddit':67 'share':25 'theori':1 'though':40 'tie':34 'tool':12 'turn':21 'won':43"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6819730"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701384960 {#2098
          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2129 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1527 …}
        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
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        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
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        -id: 182444
        -bodyTs: "'30s':53 'actual':187 'agricultur':60 'anyth':178 'argu':177 'assum':118 'bad':175 'basket':65 'botch':57 'bread':64 'butcher':112 'cannot':153 'capit':93,94 'care':188 'civil':46 'clear':183 'coher':179 'collect':125 'collectiv':58 'combat':76 'compar':5 'complet':34,111 'continu':3 'control':122,126,133 'countri':19 'decentr':83 'definit':114,191 'develop':8,18 'disingenu':35 'enforc':148 'even':164 'everi':29 'exampl':166 'exist':105 'famin':50 'firm':85 'found':44 'frustrat':174 'fulli':7 'go':108 'graph':37 'horribl':56 'ideal':88 'ie':149 'incompat':91 'invad':66 'major':74 'mean':120,129 'mere':135 'monopoli':144 'nazi':79 'never':11 'one':136 'oppos':27 'otherwis':101 'path':137 'power':100 'privat':140,155 'product':131 'proper':190 'properti':141,156 'prove':167 'rather':123 're':2,173 'requir':95,142 'rest':21 'skin':13 'social':116,139 'socialist':87 'state':121,132,151,163 'steadi':82 'step':30 'still':33 'superpow':9 'threat':158 'took':71 'tri':25 'ussr':42 'via':161 'violenc':146,160 'volatil':39 'war':47 'without':157 'worker':97 'world':24 'wouldn':103 'wwii':15,68"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6819903"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701385345 {#2130
          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182444
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2060 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2331 …}
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        -id: 182450
        -bodyTs: "'1900s':13 'acknowledg':53 'capit':4,18 'countri':6 'decentr':57 'decid':38 'democraci':55 'develop':1,8 'everyth':49 'favor':20 'form':23 'get':31 'good':59 'group':35 'one':16,46 'own':48 'ownership':44 'peopl':30,37 'person':47 'reject':17 'richer':32 'right':42 'social':25 'think':28"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6820007"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701385499 {#2349
          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184617
        -bodyTs: "'affirm':57 'also':79 'apolog':162 'argu':4 'belief':175 'believ':68,80 'better':135 'capit':6,47 'capitalist':99,126,136 'chip':124 'choos':39 'claim':167 'comparison':96 'compet':44 'concept':37,107 'control':16,23,53,59,72,100 'decentr':109 'deliber':144 'democrat':15,111 'dictatori':22,71 'direct':91 'either':84,127 'exist':87 'favor':20,115 'flaw':147 'glove':155 'good':118,129 'growth':82 'hand':62 'highest':43 'highlight':145 'hold':173 'idea':13 'input':138 'kid':154 'logic':169 'men':119 'meritocraci':29 'must':10,78 'mystic':36 'necess':171 'non':86 'non-exist':85 'ownership':33 'pale':94 'peopl':130 'pretend':31 'product':101,113 'productuon':18 'put':121,152 'reject':11,50,105 'replac':133 'similar':66 'social':8 'theori':120 'therefor':102 'think':150 'thus':55 'typic':77 'ultim':46 'whitewash':26 'without':137,151 'won':160 'worker':52,90,141 'worth':74 'yes':157"
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2068 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2072 …}
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6843490"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701437102 {#2137
          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184658
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2057 …}
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        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6867153"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701479894 {#2046
          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
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        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 188584
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 190429
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':35 'autom':11 'chore':18 'collect':47 'communism':32 'definit':25 'doesn':5 'except':44 'futurist':27 'get':13 'goal':28 'howev':19 'individu':50 'industri':45 'like':3 'modern':42 'nope':1 'own':51 'rather':48 'requir':7 'resourc':9 'scale':23 'similar':40 'social':37 'societ':22 'societi':43 'unlimit':8"
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        +"title": 190429
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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        -id: 191002
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
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     …2
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  +body: """
    You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
    \n
    In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
    """
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    "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
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  -id: 180620
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}
 
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30 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
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      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
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      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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        -id: 180771
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 180838
        -bodyTs: "'autom':11,13 'capit':7 'direct':25 'ensur':35 'eventu':5,16 'goe':38 'great':3 'import':33 'increas':12 'job':20 'learn':42 'loss':21 'mass':19 'mistak':52 'necessari':6 'outlast':10 'past':47 'product':14 'repeat':50 'result':17 'societi':27 'stagnat':23 'transit':37,44 'unless':24 'well':39 'whole':30"
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
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          "@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works"
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        -id: 180921
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        +"title": 180921
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 181161
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'addit':51 'came':38 'capit':1,31,42 'cours':50 'declin':4 'fact':53 'factor':19 'factori':37 'go':29 'industri':24 'm':45 'misunderstand':46 'necessit':61 'never':26 'one':55 'point':48 'predict':56,64 'product':6 'rather':32 'respect':16 'rise':35,40 'roof':10 'seen':27 'sens':22 'stagnat':14 'though':5 'undeni':3 'unless':43 'wage':12 'wrong':58,66"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701358899 {#1410
          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181173
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1405 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 181175
        -bodyTs: "'accur':12 'invari':18 'issu':7 'revolut':16 'say':14 'shit':21 'though':8 'turn':19 'word':6"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181175
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2025 …}
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        -id: 181250
        -bodyTs: "'also':3 'backbon':9 'benign':28 'broad':21,39 'capit':18,35 'democraci':17 'evil':25 'germani':13 'histori':31 'incred':20 'isn':41 'maoism':49 'modern':15 'nazi':12 'reli':33 'similar':37 'social':16,36 'stalin':47 'state':29 'synonym':45 'worst':5"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701360171 {#2024
          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181250
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2075 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2061 …}
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2080 …}
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        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 182421
        -bodyTs: "'absurd':36 'actual':33 'caus':18 'claim':37 'collabor':52 'decentr':51 'democrat':54 'evil':22 'foss':60 'guest':29 'idea':49 'lemmi':64 'love':47,59 'mystic':15 'peopl':19 'person':45 'plan':4 'properti':16 'prove':10 'rather':65 'realiti':6,39 'reddit':67 'share':25 'theori':1 'though':40 'tie':34 'tool':12 'turn':21 'won':43"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6819730"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701384960 {#2098
          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2129 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1527 …}
        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
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        -bodyTs: "'30s':53 'actual':187 'agricultur':60 'anyth':178 'argu':177 'assum':118 'bad':175 'basket':65 'botch':57 'bread':64 'butcher':112 'cannot':153 'capit':93,94 'care':188 'civil':46 'clear':183 'coher':179 'collect':125 'collectiv':58 'combat':76 'compar':5 'complet':34,111 'continu':3 'control':122,126,133 'countri':19 'decentr':83 'definit':114,191 'develop':8,18 'disingenu':35 'enforc':148 'even':164 'everi':29 'exampl':166 'exist':105 'famin':50 'firm':85 'found':44 'frustrat':174 'fulli':7 'go':108 'graph':37 'horribl':56 'ideal':88 'ie':149 'incompat':91 'invad':66 'major':74 'mean':120,129 'mere':135 'monopoli':144 'nazi':79 'never':11 'one':136 'oppos':27 'otherwis':101 'path':137 'power':100 'privat':140,155 'product':131 'proper':190 'properti':141,156 'prove':167 'rather':123 're':2,173 'requir':95,142 'rest':21 'skin':13 'social':116,139 'socialist':87 'state':121,132,151,163 'steadi':82 'step':30 'still':33 'superpow':9 'threat':158 'took':71 'tri':25 'ussr':42 'via':161 'violenc':146,160 'volatil':39 'war':47 'without':157 'worker':97 'world':24 'wouldn':103 'wwii':15,68"
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182444
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2060 …}
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184617
        -bodyTs: "'affirm':57 'also':79 'apolog':162 'argu':4 'belief':175 'believ':68,80 'better':135 'capit':6,47 'capitalist':99,126,136 'chip':124 'choos':39 'claim':167 'comparison':96 'compet':44 'concept':37,107 'control':16,23,53,59,72,100 'decentr':109 'deliber':144 'democrat':15,111 'dictatori':22,71 'direct':91 'either':84,127 'exist':87 'favor':20,115 'flaw':147 'glove':155 'good':118,129 'growth':82 'hand':62 'highest':43 'highlight':145 'hold':173 'idea':13 'input':138 'kid':154 'logic':169 'men':119 'meritocraci':29 'must':10,78 'mystic':36 'necess':171 'non':86 'non-exist':85 'ownership':33 'pale':94 'peopl':130 'pretend':31 'product':101,113 'productuon':18 'put':121,152 'reject':11,50,105 'replac':133 'similar':66 'social':8 'theori':120 'therefor':102 'think':150 'thus':55 'typic':77 'ultim':46 'whitewash':26 'without':137,151 'won':160 'worker':52,90,141 'worth':74 'yes':157"
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2072 …}
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
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        }
        +"title": 184658
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
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        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 188584
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 190429
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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        -id: 191002
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    ]
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1527 …}
  +body: """
    I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
    \n
    Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
    \n
    The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
    \n
    The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
    \n
    People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
    \n
    Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
    \n
    All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
    \n
    My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
    """
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Show voter details
31 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
  +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3174 …}
    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
    +url: "https://infosec.pub/pictrs/image/32c79e75-7296-4275-9f35-6cfa1a74709c.webp"
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    +children: [
      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1679 …}
        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
        -bodyTs: "'arbitrari':4 'capit':15 'capitalist':21 'chain':6 'control':19,35 'depict':8 'economi':33 'everyon':37 'follow':2 'form':10 'fraction':26 'logic':5 'market':17 'minor':25 'one':9 'popul':29 'repres':23 'social':12,31 'yes':13"
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:33:33.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 180620
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      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
          "@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180921
      }
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181161
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 181173
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181175
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 181250
        -bodyTs: "'also':3 'backbon':9 'benign':28 'broad':21,39 'capit':18,35 'democraci':17 'evil':25 'germani':13 'histori':31 'incred':20 'isn':41 'maoism':49 'modern':15 'nazi':12 'reli':33 'similar':37 'social':16,36 'stalin':47 'state':29 'synonym':45 'worst':5"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181250
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
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      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
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        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184617
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2068 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        }
        +"title": 184658
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
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        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701479894 {#2046
          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
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        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 188584
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 190429
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        +"title": 190429
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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        -id: 191002
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    -id: 18115
    -titleTs: "'balmer':2 'quot':3 'steve':1"
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
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     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1527 …}
  +body: """
    I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
    \n
    Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
    \n
    The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
    \n
    The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
    \n
    People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
    \n
    Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
    \n
    All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
    \n
    My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
    """
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
32 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
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      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
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      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:32:15.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 180771
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        +"title": 180771
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:58:18.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 180838
        -bodyTs: "'autom':11,13 'capit':7 'direct':25 'ensur':35 'eventu':5,16 'goe':38 'great':3 'import':33 'increas':12 'job':20 'learn':42 'loss':21 'mass':19 'mistak':52 'necessari':6 'outlast':10 'past':47 'product':14 'repeat':50 'result':17 'societi':27 'stagnat':23 'transit':37,44 'unless':24 'well':39 'whole':30"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:58:18.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 180838
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
          "@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works"
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        -id: 180921
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 181161
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 181161
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 181173
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
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        -id: 181175
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
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        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
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        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6819903"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701385345 {#2130
          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182444
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 182450
        -bodyTs: "'1900s':13 'acknowledg':53 'capit':4,18 'countri':6 'decentr':57 'decid':38 'democraci':55 'develop':1,8 'everyth':49 'favor':20 'form':23 'get':31 'good':59 'group':35 'one':16,46 'own':48 'ownership':44 'peopl':30,37 'person':47 'reject':17 'richer':32 'right':42 'social':25 'think':28"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701385499 {#2349
          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2068 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2072 …}
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        -id: 184658
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        +"title": 184658
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6867153"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701479894 {#2046
          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2111 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 188584
        -bodyTs: "'becom':32 'come':18 'develop':20 'distribut':22 'everyth':5 'free':7 'get':4 'handl':24 'high':12 'longer':36 'necessari':37 'peopl':1 'practic':16 'product':9 'socialist':27 'state':28 'typic':29 'vestigi':33"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 188584
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2113 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 190429
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          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 190429
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
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        +image: null
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 191002
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':45 'answer':12 'communism':35 'communist':42 'first':47 'focus':43 'global':7 'happen':4 'incent':26 'isn':19 'know':33 'like':38 'look':37 'marx':29 'must':36 'never':30 'numer':11 'pretend':31 'question':15 'read':27 'remov':24 'scale':8 'simpl':22 'social':46 'theori':28 'transit':53 'well':52"
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          date: 2023-12-03 04:41:34.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 191002
      }
    ]
    -id: 18115
    -titleTs: "'balmer':2 'quot':3 'steve':1"
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    +apId: "https://infosec.pub/post/5461452"
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
  +image: null
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  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1527 …}
  +body: """
    I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
    \n
    Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
    \n
    The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
    \n
    The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
    \n
    People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
    \n
    Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
    \n
    All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
    \n
    My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
    """
  +lang: "en"
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    "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
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  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
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  +"title": 180639
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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34 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
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      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:33:33.0 +01:00
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      }
      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:43:12.0 +01:00
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      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613}
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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        -id: 180838
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
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          "@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works"
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        -id: 180921
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
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        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181250
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2075 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701375225 {#2037
          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2080 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 182421
        -bodyTs: "'absurd':36 'actual':33 'caus':18 'claim':37 'collabor':52 'decentr':51 'democrat':54 'evil':22 'foss':60 'guest':29 'idea':49 'lemmi':64 'love':47,59 'mystic':15 'peopl':19 'person':45 'plan':4 'properti':16 'prove':10 'rather':65 'realiti':6,39 'reddit':67 'share':25 'theori':1 'though':40 'tie':34 'tool':12 'turn':21 'won':43"
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2129 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1527 …}
        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'30s':53 'actual':187 'agricultur':60 'anyth':178 'argu':177 'assum':118 'bad':175 'basket':65 'botch':57 'bread':64 'butcher':112 'cannot':153 'capit':93,94 'care':188 'civil':46 'clear':183 'coher':179 'collect':125 'collectiv':58 'combat':76 'compar':5 'complet':34,111 'continu':3 'control':122,126,133 'countri':19 'decentr':83 'definit':114,191 'develop':8,18 'disingenu':35 'enforc':148 'even':164 'everi':29 'exampl':166 'exist':105 'famin':50 'firm':85 'found':44 'frustrat':174 'fulli':7 'go':108 'graph':37 'horribl':56 'ideal':88 'ie':149 'incompat':91 'invad':66 'major':74 'mean':120,129 'mere':135 'monopoli':144 'nazi':79 'never':11 'one':136 'oppos':27 'otherwis':101 'path':137 'power':100 'privat':140,155 'product':131 'proper':190 'properti':141,156 'prove':167 'rather':123 're':2,173 'requir':95,142 'rest':21 'skin':13 'social':116,139 'socialist':87 'state':121,132,151,163 'steadi':82 'step':30 'still':33 'superpow':9 'threat':158 'took':71 'tri':25 'ussr':42 'via':161 'violenc':146,160 'volatil':39 'war':47 'without':157 'worker':97 'world':24 'wouldn':103 'wwii':15,68"
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182444
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
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        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184617
        -bodyTs: "'affirm':57 'also':79 'apolog':162 'argu':4 'belief':175 'believ':68,80 'better':135 'capit':6,47 'capitalist':99,126,136 'chip':124 'choos':39 'claim':167 'comparison':96 'compet':44 'concept':37,107 'control':16,23,53,59,72,100 'decentr':109 'deliber':144 'democrat':15,111 'dictatori':22,71 'direct':91 'either':84,127 'exist':87 'favor':20,115 'flaw':147 'glove':155 'good':118,129 'growth':82 'hand':62 'highest':43 'highlight':145 'hold':173 'idea':13 'input':138 'kid':154 'logic':169 'men':119 'meritocraci':29 'must':10,78 'mystic':36 'necess':171 'non':86 'non-exist':85 'ownership':33 'pale':94 'peopl':130 'pretend':31 'product':101,113 'productuon':18 'put':121,152 'reject':11,50,105 'replac':133 'similar':66 'social':8 'theori':120 'therefor':102 'think':150 'thus':55 'typic':77 'ultim':46 'whitewash':26 'without':137,151 'won':160 'worker':52,90,141 'worth':74 'yes':157"
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2072 …}
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
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        +"title": 184658
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 187261
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
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        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 188584
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 188584
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 190429
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          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 190429
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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     …2
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  +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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35 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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        -bodyTs: "'addit':51 'came':38 'capit':1,31,42 'cours':50 'declin':4 'fact':53 'factor':19 'factori':37 'go':29 'industri':24 'm':45 'misunderstand':46 'necessit':61 'never':26 'one':55 'point':48 'predict':56,64 'product':6 'rather':32 'respect':16 'rise':35,40 'roof':10 'seen':27 'sens':22 'stagnat':14 'though':5 'undeni':3 'unless':43 'wage':12 'wrong':58,66"
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181173
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1405 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 181175
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181175
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 181250
        -bodyTs: "'also':3 'backbon':9 'benign':28 'broad':21,39 'capit':18,35 'democraci':17 'evil':25 'germani':13 'histori':31 'incred':20 'isn':41 'maoism':49 'modern':15 'nazi':12 'reli':33 'similar':37 'social':16,36 'stalin':47 'state':29 'synonym':45 'worst':5"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181250
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 182421
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2129 …}
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        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
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      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2060 …}
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184617
        -bodyTs: "'affirm':57 'also':79 'apolog':162 'argu':4 'belief':175 'believ':68,80 'better':135 'capit':6,47 'capitalist':99,126,136 'chip':124 'choos':39 'claim':167 'comparison':96 'compet':44 'concept':37,107 'control':16,23,53,59,72,100 'decentr':109 'deliber':144 'democrat':15,111 'dictatori':22,71 'direct':91 'either':84,127 'exist':87 'favor':20,115 'flaw':147 'glove':155 'good':118,129 'growth':82 'hand':62 'highest':43 'highlight':145 'hold':173 'idea':13 'input':138 'kid':154 'logic':169 'men':119 'meritocraci':29 'must':10,78 'mystic':36 'necess':171 'non':86 'non-exist':85 'ownership':33 'pale':94 'peopl':130 'pretend':31 'product':101,113 'productuon':18 'put':121,152 'reject':11,50,105 'replac':133 'similar':66 'social':8 'theori':120 'therefor':102 'think':150 'thus':55 'typic':77 'ultim':46 'whitewash':26 'without':137,151 'won':160 'worker':52,90,141 'worth':74 'yes':157"
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6843490"
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        +"title": 184658
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 187261
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
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        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 188584
        -bodyTs: "'becom':32 'come':18 'develop':20 'distribut':22 'everyth':5 'free':7 'get':4 'handl':24 'high':12 'longer':36 'necessari':37 'peopl':1 'practic':16 'product':9 'socialist':27 'state':28 'typic':29 'vestigi':33"
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 188584
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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        -id: 190429
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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        -id: 191002
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
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     …2
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  +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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Show voter details
36 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
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      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
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      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613}
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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        -id: 180838
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
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        -id: 180921
        -bodyTs: "'capit':24 'continu':22 'differ':9 'good':13 'look':7 'mani':12 'may':6 'much':2 'none':16 'outcom':14 'pretti':1 'star':4 'though':3 'trek':5 'wild':8"
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180921
      }
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181161
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'addit':51 'came':38 'capit':1,31,42 'cours':50 'declin':4 'fact':53 'factor':19 'factori':37 'go':29 'industri':24 'm':45 'misunderstand':46 'necessit':61 'never':26 'one':55 'point':48 'predict':56,64 'product':6 'rather':32 'respect':16 'rise':35,40 'roof':10 'seen':27 'sens':22 'stagnat':14 'though':5 'undeni':3 'unless':43 'wage':12 'wrong':58,66"
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181173
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1405 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181175
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 181250
        -bodyTs: "'also':3 'backbon':9 'benign':28 'broad':21,39 'capit':18,35 'democraci':17 'evil':25 'germani':13 'histori':31 'incred':20 'isn':41 'maoism':49 'modern':15 'nazi':12 'reli':33 'similar':37 'social':16,36 'stalin':47 'state':29 'synonym':45 'worst':5"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181250
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
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        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 182421
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
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        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6820007"
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
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        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184617
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701435846 {#2324
          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2068 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701437102 {#2137
          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184658
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 188584
        -bodyTs: "'becom':32 'come':18 'develop':20 'distribut':22 'everyth':5 'free':7 'get':4 'handl':24 'high':12 'longer':36 'necessari':37 'peopl':1 'practic':16 'product':9 'socialist':27 'state':28 'typic':29 'vestigi':33"
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 188584
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +image: null
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 190429
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':35 'autom':11 'chore':18 'collect':47 'communism':32 'definit':25 'doesn':5 'except':44 'futurist':27 'get':13 'goal':28 'howev':19 'individu':50 'industri':45 'like':3 'modern':42 'nope':1 'own':51 'rather':48 'requir':7 'resourc':9 'scale':23 'similar':40 'social':37 'societ':22 'societi':43 'unlimit':8"
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          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 190429
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 191002
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        +"title": 191002
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    ]
    -id: 18115
    -titleTs: "'balmer':2 'quot':3 'steve':1"
    -bodyTs: null
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    +upVotes: 0
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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  +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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    "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
    "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
  ]
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  +"title": 180771
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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38 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
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      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Neon@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 180620
        -bodyTs: "'arbitrari':4 'capit':15 'capitalist':21 'chain':6 'control':19,35 'depict':8 'economi':33 'everyon':37 'follow':2 'form':10 'fraction':26 'logic':5 'market':17 'minor':25 'one':9 'popul':29 'repres':23 'social':12,31 'yes':13"
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      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:43:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180639
      }
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
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        +image: null
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:32:15.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 180771
        -bodyTs: "'anoth':31 'classless':10 'communism':21,47 'ever':16 'genuin':2 'great':23 'heard':17,45 'imagin':6 'moneyless':11 'never':43 'peopl':18 'practic':36 'reason':29 'say':19 'societi':12 'sound':22 'stateless':9 'support':38 'theori':25,52 'unpleas':4,50 've':14,42 'work':34"
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        +"title": 180771
      }
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730}
      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
          "@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 180921
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180921
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 181161
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 181161
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 181173
        -bodyTs: "'addit':51 'came':38 'capit':1,31,42 'cours':50 'declin':4 'fact':53 'factor':19 'factori':37 'go':29 'industri':24 'm':45 'misunderstand':46 'necessit':61 'never':26 'one':55 'point':48 'predict':56,64 'product':6 'rather':32 'respect':16 'rise':35,40 'roof':10 'seen':27 'sens':22 'stagnat':14 'though':5 'undeni':3 'unless':43 'wage':12 'wrong':58,66"
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        +"title": 181173
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 181175
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 181175
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 181250
        -bodyTs: "'also':3 'backbon':9 'benign':28 'broad':21,39 'capit':18,35 'democraci':17 'evil':25 'germani':13 'histori':31 'incred':20 'isn':41 'maoism':49 'modern':15 'nazi':12 'reli':33 'similar':37 'social':16,36 'stalin':47 'state':29 'synonym':45 'worst':5"
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      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
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      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
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        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
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        -id: 182421
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
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        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 182444
        -bodyTs: "'30s':53 'actual':187 'agricultur':60 'anyth':178 'argu':177 'assum':118 'bad':175 'basket':65 'botch':57 'bread':64 'butcher':112 'cannot':153 'capit':93,94 'care':188 'civil':46 'clear':183 'coher':179 'collect':125 'collectiv':58 'combat':76 'compar':5 'complet':34,111 'continu':3 'control':122,126,133 'countri':19 'decentr':83 'definit':114,191 'develop':8,18 'disingenu':35 'enforc':148 'even':164 'everi':29 'exampl':166 'exist':105 'famin':50 'firm':85 'found':44 'frustrat':174 'fulli':7 'go':108 'graph':37 'horribl':56 'ideal':88 'ie':149 'incompat':91 'invad':66 'major':74 'mean':120,129 'mere':135 'monopoli':144 'nazi':79 'never':11 'one':136 'oppos':27 'otherwis':101 'path':137 'power':100 'privat':140,155 'product':131 'proper':190 'properti':141,156 'prove':167 'rather':123 're':2,173 'requir':95,142 'rest':21 'skin':13 'social':116,139 'socialist':87 'state':121,132,151,163 'steadi':82 'step':30 'still':33 'superpow':9 'threat':158 'took':71 'tri':25 'ussr':42 'via':161 'violenc':146,160 'volatil':39 'war':47 'without':157 'worker':97 'world':24 'wouldn':103 'wwii':15,68"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701385345 {#2130
          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182444
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 182450
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701385499 {#2349
          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184617
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701435846 {#2324
          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2068 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2072 …}
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701437102 {#2137
          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184658
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2057 …}
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        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701479894 {#2046
          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2111 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2101 …}
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        -id: 188584
        -bodyTs: "'becom':32 'come':18 'develop':20 'distribut':22 'everyth':5 'free':7 'get':4 'handl':24 'high':12 'longer':36 'necessari':37 'peopl':1 'practic':16 'product':9 'socialist':27 'state':28 'typic':29 'vestigi':33"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 188584
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2113 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2123 …}
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        -id: 190429
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':35 'autom':11 'chore':18 'collect':47 'communism':32 'definit':25 'doesn':5 'except':44 'futurist':27 'get':13 'goal':28 'howev':19 'individu':50 'industri':45 'like':3 'modern':42 'nope':1 'own':51 'rather':48 'requir':7 'resourc':9 'scale':23 'similar':40 'social':37 'societ':22 'societi':43 'unlimit':8"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701567630 {#2122
          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 190429
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2224 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-12-03 04:41:34.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2198 …}
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        -id: 191002
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':45 'answer':12 'communism':35 'communist':42 'first':47 'focus':43 'global':7 'happen':4 'incent':26 'isn':19 'know':33 'like':38 'look':37 'marx':29 'must':36 'never':30 'numer':11 'pretend':31 'question':15 'read':27 'remov':24 'scale':8 'simpl':22 'social':46 'theori':28 'transit':53 'well':52"
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        +"title": 191002
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    ]
    -id: 18115
    -titleTs: "'balmer':2 'quot':3 'steve':1"
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
  +image: null
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  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
  +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
  +lang: "en"
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    "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
    "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
    "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
  ]
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
39 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
  +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2684 …}
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2671 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3174 …}
    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
    +url: "https://infosec.pub/pictrs/image/32c79e75-7296-4275-9f35-6cfa1a74709c.webp"
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      date: 2023-12-09 05:51:58.0 +01:00
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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          "@Neon@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 180620
        -bodyTs: "'arbitrari':4 'capit':15 'capitalist':21 'chain':6 'control':19,35 'depict':8 'economi':33 'everyon':37 'follow':2 'form':10 'fraction':26 'logic':5 'market':17 'minor':25 'one':9 'popul':29 'repres':23 'social':12,31 'yes':13"
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:33:33.0 +01:00
        }
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      }
      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:43:12.0 +01:00
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
          "@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works"
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        -id: 180921
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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        -id: 181173
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
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        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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        -id: 181250
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
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      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2080 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 182421
        -bodyTs: "'absurd':36 'actual':33 'caus':18 'claim':37 'collabor':52 'decentr':51 'democrat':54 'evil':22 'foss':60 'guest':29 'idea':49 'lemmi':64 'love':47,59 'mystic':15 'peopl':19 'person':45 'plan':4 'properti':16 'prove':10 'rather':65 'realiti':6,39 'reddit':67 'share':25 'theori':1 'though':40 'tie':34 'tool':12 'turn':21 'won':43"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701384960 {#2098
          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2129 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1527 …}
        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182444
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 182450
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184617
        -bodyTs: "'affirm':57 'also':79 'apolog':162 'argu':4 'belief':175 'believ':68,80 'better':135 'capit':6,47 'capitalist':99,126,136 'chip':124 'choos':39 'claim':167 'comparison':96 'compet':44 'concept':37,107 'control':16,23,53,59,72,100 'decentr':109 'deliber':144 'democrat':15,111 'dictatori':22,71 'direct':91 'either':84,127 'exist':87 'favor':20,115 'flaw':147 'glove':155 'good':118,129 'growth':82 'hand':62 'highest':43 'highlight':145 'hold':173 'idea':13 'input':138 'kid':154 'logic':169 'men':119 'meritocraci':29 'must':10,78 'mystic':36 'necess':171 'non':86 'non-exist':85 'ownership':33 'pale':94 'peopl':130 'pretend':31 'product':101,113 'productuon':18 'put':121,152 'reject':11,50,105 'replac':133 'similar':66 'social':8 'theori':120 'therefor':102 'think':150 'thus':55 'typic':77 'ultim':46 'whitewash':26 'without':137,151 'won':160 'worker':52,90,141 'worth':74 'yes':157"
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2068 …}
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        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2072 …}
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
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        +"title": 184658
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 187261
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 188584
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 188584
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 190429
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':35 'autom':11 'chore':18 'collect':47 'communism':32 'definit':25 'doesn':5 'except':44 'futurist':27 'get':13 'goal':28 'howev':19 'individu':50 'industri':45 'like':3 'modern':42 'nope':1 'own':51 'rather':48 'requir':7 'resourc':9 'scale':23 'similar':40 'social':37 'societ':22 'societi':43 'unlimit':8"
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          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 190429
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 191002
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          date: 2023-12-03 04:41:34.0 +01:00
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
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     …2
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  +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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40 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
        -bodyTs: "'arbitrari':4 'capit':15 'capitalist':21 'chain':6 'control':19,35 'depict':8 'economi':33 'everyon':37 'follow':2 'form':10 'fraction':26 'logic':5 'market':17 'minor':25 'one':9 'popul':29 'repres':23 'social':12,31 'yes':13"
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730}
      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
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        -id: 180921
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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        -id: 181173
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
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        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2018 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 181250
        -bodyTs: "'also':3 'backbon':9 'benign':28 'broad':21,39 'capit':18,35 'democraci':17 'evil':25 'germani':13 'histori':31 'incred':20 'isn':41 'maoism':49 'modern':15 'nazi':12 'reli':33 'similar':37 'social':16,36 'stalin':47 'state':29 'synonym':45 'worst':5"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181250
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2075 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 182421
        -bodyTs: "'absurd':36 'actual':33 'caus':18 'claim':37 'collabor':52 'decentr':51 'democrat':54 'evil':22 'foss':60 'guest':29 'idea':49 'lemmi':64 'love':47,59 'mystic':15 'peopl':19 'person':45 'plan':4 'properti':16 'prove':10 'rather':65 'realiti':6,39 'reddit':67 'share':25 'theori':1 'though':40 'tie':34 'tool':12 'turn':21 'won':43"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701384960 {#2098
          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2129 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1527 …}
        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'30s':53 'actual':187 'agricultur':60 'anyth':178 'argu':177 'assum':118 'bad':175 'basket':65 'botch':57 'bread':64 'butcher':112 'cannot':153 'capit':93,94 'care':188 'civil':46 'clear':183 'coher':179 'collect':125 'collectiv':58 'combat':76 'compar':5 'complet':34,111 'continu':3 'control':122,126,133 'countri':19 'decentr':83 'definit':114,191 'develop':8,18 'disingenu':35 'enforc':148 'even':164 'everi':29 'exampl':166 'exist':105 'famin':50 'firm':85 'found':44 'frustrat':174 'fulli':7 'go':108 'graph':37 'horribl':56 'ideal':88 'ie':149 'incompat':91 'invad':66 'major':74 'mean':120,129 'mere':135 'monopoli':144 'nazi':79 'never':11 'one':136 'oppos':27 'otherwis':101 'path':137 'power':100 'privat':140,155 'product':131 'proper':190 'properti':141,156 'prove':167 'rather':123 're':2,173 'requir':95,142 'rest':21 'skin':13 'social':116,139 'socialist':87 'state':121,132,151,163 'steadi':82 'step':30 'still':33 'superpow':9 'threat':158 'took':71 'tri':25 'ussr':42 'via':161 'violenc':146,160 'volatil':39 'war':47 'without':157 'worker':97 'world':24 'wouldn':103 'wwii':15,68"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701385345 {#2130
          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182444
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2060 …}
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184617
        -bodyTs: "'affirm':57 'also':79 'apolog':162 'argu':4 'belief':175 'believ':68,80 'better':135 'capit':6,47 'capitalist':99,126,136 'chip':124 'choos':39 'claim':167 'comparison':96 'compet':44 'concept':37,107 'control':16,23,53,59,72,100 'decentr':109 'deliber':144 'democrat':15,111 'dictatori':22,71 'direct':91 'either':84,127 'exist':87 'favor':20,115 'flaw':147 'glove':155 'good':118,129 'growth':82 'hand':62 'highest':43 'highlight':145 'hold':173 'idea':13 'input':138 'kid':154 'logic':169 'men':119 'meritocraci':29 'must':10,78 'mystic':36 'necess':171 'non':86 'non-exist':85 'ownership':33 'pale':94 'peopl':130 'pretend':31 'product':101,113 'productuon':18 'put':121,152 'reject':11,50,105 'replac':133 'similar':66 'social':8 'theori':120 'therefor':102 'think':150 'thus':55 'typic':77 'ultim':46 'whitewash':26 'without':137,151 'won':160 'worker':52,90,141 'worth':74 'yes':157"
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2068 …}
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        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2072 …}
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6843490"
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184658
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2111 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 188584
        -bodyTs: "'becom':32 'come':18 'develop':20 'distribut':22 'everyth':5 'free':7 'get':4 'handl':24 'high':12 'longer':36 'necessari':37 'peopl':1 'practic':16 'product':9 'socialist':27 'state':28 'typic':29 'vestigi':33"
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6877633"
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 188584
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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        -id: 190429
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
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     …2
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  +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
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      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
        -bodyTs: "'arbitrari':4 'capit':15 'capitalist':21 'chain':6 'control':19,35 'depict':8 'economi':33 'everyon':37 'follow':2 'form':10 'fraction':26 'logic':5 'market':17 'minor':25 'one':9 'popul':29 'repres':23 'social':12,31 'yes':13"
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      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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        -id: 180838
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739}
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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        -id: 181161
        -bodyTs: "'answer':31 'attempt':44 'claim':9,21,37 'communism':46,54 'doesn':29 'exist':43 'initi':8,33 'invari':24 'issu':66 'lead':25 'question':34 'rather':52 'regardless':18 'shit':27 'theori':5 'think':16,50,59 'though':6 'truli':39 'unpleas':14,48,57 'word':68"
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181161
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 181173
        -bodyTs: "'addit':51 'came':38 'capit':1,31,42 'cours':50 'declin':4 'fact':53 'factor':19 'factori':37 'go':29 'industri':24 'm':45 'misunderstand':46 'necessit':61 'never':26 'one':55 'point':48 'predict':56,64 'product':6 'rather':32 'respect':16 'rise':35,40 'roof':10 'seen':27 'sens':22 'stagnat':14 'though':5 'undeni':3 'unless':43 'wage':12 'wrong':58,66"
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181173
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1405 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 181175
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181175
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 181250
        -bodyTs: "'also':3 'backbon':9 'benign':28 'broad':21,39 'capit':18,35 'democraci':17 'evil':25 'germani':13 'histori':31 'incred':20 'isn':41 'maoism':49 'modern':15 'nazi':12 'reli':33 'similar':37 'social':16,36 'stalin':47 'state':29 'synonym':45 'worst':5"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181250
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 182421
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2129 …}
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        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'30s':53 'actual':187 'agricultur':60 'anyth':178 'argu':177 'assum':118 'bad':175 'basket':65 'botch':57 'bread':64 'butcher':112 'cannot':153 'capit':93,94 'care':188 'civil':46 'clear':183 'coher':179 'collect':125 'collectiv':58 'combat':76 'compar':5 'complet':34,111 'continu':3 'control':122,126,133 'countri':19 'decentr':83 'definit':114,191 'develop':8,18 'disingenu':35 'enforc':148 'even':164 'everi':29 'exampl':166 'exist':105 'famin':50 'firm':85 'found':44 'frustrat':174 'fulli':7 'go':108 'graph':37 'horribl':56 'ideal':88 'ie':149 'incompat':91 'invad':66 'major':74 'mean':120,129 'mere':135 'monopoli':144 'nazi':79 'never':11 'one':136 'oppos':27 'otherwis':101 'path':137 'power':100 'privat':140,155 'product':131 'proper':190 'properti':141,156 'prove':167 'rather':123 're':2,173 'requir':95,142 'rest':21 'skin':13 'social':116,139 'socialist':87 'state':121,132,151,163 'steadi':82 'step':30 'still':33 'superpow':9 'threat':158 'took':71 'tri':25 'ussr':42 'via':161 'violenc':146,160 'volatil':39 'war':47 'without':157 'worker':97 'world':24 'wouldn':103 'wwii':15,68"
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182444
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
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        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701385499 {#2349
          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
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        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184617
        -bodyTs: "'affirm':57 'also':79 'apolog':162 'argu':4 'belief':175 'believ':68,80 'better':135 'capit':6,47 'capitalist':99,126,136 'chip':124 'choos':39 'claim':167 'comparison':96 'compet':44 'concept':37,107 'control':16,23,53,59,72,100 'decentr':109 'deliber':144 'democrat':15,111 'dictatori':22,71 'direct':91 'either':84,127 'exist':87 'favor':20,115 'flaw':147 'glove':155 'good':118,129 'growth':82 'hand':62 'highest':43 'highlight':145 'hold':173 'idea':13 'input':138 'kid':154 'logic':169 'men':119 'meritocraci':29 'must':10,78 'mystic':36 'necess':171 'non':86 'non-exist':85 'ownership':33 'pale':94 'peopl':130 'pretend':31 'product':101,113 'productuon':18 'put':121,152 'reject':11,50,105 'replac':133 'similar':66 'social':8 'theori':120 'therefor':102 'think':150 'thus':55 'typic':77 'ultim':46 'whitewash':26 'without':137,151 'won':160 'worker':52,90,141 'worth':74 'yes':157"
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184658
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 188584
        -bodyTs: "'becom':32 'come':18 'develop':20 'distribut':22 'everyth':5 'free':7 'get':4 'handl':24 'high':12 'longer':36 'necessari':37 'peopl':1 'practic':16 'product':9 'socialist':27 'state':28 'typic':29 'vestigi':33"
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 188584
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 190429
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':35 'autom':11 'chore':18 'collect':47 'communism':32 'definit':25 'doesn':5 'except':44 'futurist':27 'get':13 'goal':28 'howev':19 'individu':50 'industri':45 'like':3 'modern':42 'nope':1 'own':51 'rather':48 'requir':7 'resourc':9 'scale':23 'similar':40 'social':37 'societ':22 'societi':43 'unlimit':8"
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          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 190429
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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        -id: 191002
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        +"title": 191002
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    ]
    -id: 18115
    -titleTs: "'balmer':2 'quot':3 'steve':1"
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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  +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
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    "@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works"
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  +"title": 180921
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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Show voter details
43 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
  +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
    +url: "https://infosec.pub/pictrs/image/32c79e75-7296-4275-9f35-6cfa1a74709c.webp"
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      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
        -bodyTs: "'arbitrari':4 'capit':15 'capitalist':21 'chain':6 'control':19,35 'depict':8 'economi':33 'everyon':37 'follow':2 'form':10 'fraction':26 'logic':5 'market':17 'minor':25 'one':9 'popul':29 'repres':23 'social':12,31 'yes':13"
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:33:33.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180620
      }
      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 180771
        -bodyTs: "'anoth':31 'classless':10 'communism':21,47 'ever':16 'genuin':2 'great':23 'heard':17,45 'imagin':6 'moneyless':11 'never':43 'peopl':18 'practic':36 'reason':29 'say':19 'societi':12 'sound':22 'stateless':9 'support':38 'theori':25,52 'unpleas':4,50 've':14,42 'work':34"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701351135 {#1620
          date: 2023-11-30 14:32:15.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180771
      }
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1737 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:58:18.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 180838
        -bodyTs: "'autom':11,13 'capit':7 'direct':25 'ensur':35 'eventu':5,16 'goe':38 'great':3 'import':33 'increas':12 'job':20 'learn':42 'loss':21 'mass':19 'mistak':52 'necessari':6 'outlast':10 'past':47 'product':14 'repeat':50 'result':17 'societi':27 'stagnat':23 'transit':37,44 'unless':24 'well':39 'whole':30"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:58:18.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180838
      }
      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739}
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2380 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 181161
        -bodyTs: "'answer':31 'attempt':44 'claim':9,21,37 'communism':46,54 'doesn':29 'exist':43 'initi':8,33 'invari':24 'issu':66 'lead':25 'question':34 'rather':52 'regardless':18 'shit':27 'theori':5 'think':16,50,59 'though':6 'truli':39 'unpleas':14,48,57 'word':68"
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181161
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1907 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 181173
        -bodyTs: "'addit':51 'came':38 'capit':1,31,42 'cours':50 'declin':4 'fact':53 'factor':19 'factori':37 'go':29 'industri':24 'm':45 'misunderstand':46 'necessit':61 'never':26 'one':55 'point':48 'predict':56,64 'product':6 'rather':32 'respect':16 'rise':35,40 'roof':10 'seen':27 'sens':22 'stagnat':14 'though':5 'undeni':3 'unless':43 'wage':12 'wrong':58,66"
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181173
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1405 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 181175
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181175
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 181250
        -bodyTs: "'also':3 'backbon':9 'benign':28 'broad':21,39 'capit':18,35 'democraci':17 'evil':25 'germani':13 'histori':31 'incred':20 'isn':41 'maoism':49 'modern':15 'nazi':12 'reli':33 'similar':37 'social':16,36 'stalin':47 'state':29 'synonym':45 'worst':5"
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181250
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 182421
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701384960 {#2098
          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
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          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182444
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
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        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 184658
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        +"title": 184658
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
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        -id: 187261
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 187261
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
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        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
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        -id: 188584
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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        -id: 190429
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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        -id: 191002
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    ]
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    }
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     …2
  }
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  +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
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  +"title": 180921
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
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Show voter details
44 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
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      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
        -bodyTs: "'arbitrari':4 'capit':15 'capitalist':21 'chain':6 'control':19,35 'depict':8 'economi':33 'everyon':37 'follow':2 'form':10 'fraction':26 'logic':5 'market':17 'minor':25 'one':9 'popul':29 'repres':23 'social':12,31 'yes':13"
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        +"title": 180620
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      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:43:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180639
      }
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 180771
        -bodyTs: "'anoth':31 'classless':10 'communism':21,47 'ever':16 'genuin':2 'great':23 'heard':17,45 'imagin':6 'moneyless':11 'never':43 'peopl':18 'practic':36 'reason':29 'say':19 'societi':12 'sound':22 'stateless':9 'support':38 'theori':25,52 'unpleas':4,50 've':14,42 'work':34"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:32:15.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 180771
      }
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:58:18.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 180838
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:58:18.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180838
      }
      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739}
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 181161
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 181161
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 181173
        -bodyTs: "'addit':51 'came':38 'capit':1,31,42 'cours':50 'declin':4 'fact':53 'factor':19 'factori':37 'go':29 'industri':24 'm':45 'misunderstand':46 'necessit':61 'never':26 'one':55 'point':48 'predict':56,64 'product':6 'rather':32 'respect':16 'rise':35,40 'roof':10 'seen':27 'sens':22 'stagnat':14 'though':5 'undeni':3 'unless':43 'wage':12 'wrong':58,66"
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        +"title": 181173
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 181175
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 181175
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 181250
        -bodyTs: "'also':3 'backbon':9 'benign':28 'broad':21,39 'capit':18,35 'democraci':17 'evil':25 'germani':13 'histori':31 'incred':20 'isn':41 'maoism':49 'modern':15 'nazi':12 'reli':33 'similar':37 'social':16,36 'stalin':47 'state':29 'synonym':45 'worst':5"
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        +"title": 181250
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
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        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
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        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 182421
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
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        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 182444
        -bodyTs: "'30s':53 'actual':187 'agricultur':60 'anyth':178 'argu':177 'assum':118 'bad':175 'basket':65 'botch':57 'bread':64 'butcher':112 'cannot':153 'capit':93,94 'care':188 'civil':46 'clear':183 'coher':179 'collect':125 'collectiv':58 'combat':76 'compar':5 'complet':34,111 'continu':3 'control':122,126,133 'countri':19 'decentr':83 'definit':114,191 'develop':8,18 'disingenu':35 'enforc':148 'even':164 'everi':29 'exampl':166 'exist':105 'famin':50 'firm':85 'found':44 'frustrat':174 'fulli':7 'go':108 'graph':37 'horribl':56 'ideal':88 'ie':149 'incompat':91 'invad':66 'major':74 'mean':120,129 'mere':135 'monopoli':144 'nazi':79 'never':11 'one':136 'oppos':27 'otherwis':101 'path':137 'power':100 'privat':140,155 'product':131 'proper':190 'properti':141,156 'prove':167 'rather':123 're':2,173 'requir':95,142 'rest':21 'skin':13 'social':116,139 'socialist':87 'state':121,132,151,163 'steadi':82 'step':30 'still':33 'superpow':9 'threat':158 'took':71 'tri':25 'ussr':42 'via':161 'violenc':146,160 'volatil':39 'war':47 'without':157 'worker':97 'world':24 'wouldn':103 'wwii':15,68"
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701385345 {#2130
          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182444
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701385499 {#2344
          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 182450
        -bodyTs: "'1900s':13 'acknowledg':53 'capit':4,18 'countri':6 'decentr':57 'decid':38 'democraci':55 'develop':1,8 'everyth':49 'favor':20 'form':23 'get':31 'good':59 'group':35 'one':16,46 'own':48 'ownership':44 'peopl':30,37 'person':47 'reject':17 'richer':32 'right':42 'social':25 'think':28"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701385499 {#2349
          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2340 …}
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        -id: 184617
        -bodyTs: "'affirm':57 'also':79 'apolog':162 'argu':4 'belief':175 'believ':68,80 'better':135 'capit':6,47 'capitalist':99,126,136 'chip':124 'choos':39 'claim':167 'comparison':96 'compet':44 'concept':37,107 'control':16,23,53,59,72,100 'decentr':109 'deliber':144 'democrat':15,111 'dictatori':22,71 'direct':91 'either':84,127 'exist':87 'favor':20,115 'flaw':147 'glove':155 'good':118,129 'growth':82 'hand':62 'highest':43 'highlight':145 'hold':173 'idea':13 'input':138 'kid':154 'logic':169 'men':119 'meritocraci':29 'must':10,78 'mystic':36 'necess':171 'non':86 'non-exist':85 'ownership':33 'pale':94 'peopl':130 'pretend':31 'product':101,113 'productuon':18 'put':121,152 'reject':11,50,105 'replac':133 'similar':66 'social':8 'theori':120 'therefor':102 'think':150 'thus':55 'typic':77 'ultim':46 'whitewash':26 'without':137,151 'won':160 'worker':52,90,141 'worth':74 'yes':157"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701435846 {#2324
          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2068 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701437102 {#2136
          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2072 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2065 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2066 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2067 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2049 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2051 …}
        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6843490"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701437102 {#2137
          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184658
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701479894 {#2059
          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2057 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2165 …}
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        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
        +ranking: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6867153"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701479894 {#2046
          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2111 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701515310 {#2099
          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2101 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2109 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2124 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2118 …}
        -id: 188584
        -bodyTs: "'becom':32 'come':18 'develop':20 'distribut':22 'everyth':5 'free':7 'get':4 'handl':24 'high':12 'longer':36 'necessari':37 'peopl':1 'practic':16 'product':9 'socialist':27 'state':28 'typic':29 'vestigi':33"
        +ranking: 0
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        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6877633"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701515310 {#2105
          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 188584
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2113 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701567630 {#2121
          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2123 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2116 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2161 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2163 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2044 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2127 …}
        -id: 190429
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':35 'autom':11 'chore':18 'collect':47 'communism':32 'definit':25 'doesn':5 'except':44 'futurist':27 'get':13 'goal':28 'howev':19 'individu':50 'industri':45 'like':3 'modern':42 'nope':1 'own':51 'rather':48 'requir':7 'resourc':9 'scale':23 'similar':40 'social':37 'societ':22 'societi':43 'unlimit':8"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6902320"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701567630 {#2122
          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 190429
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2224 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701574894 {#2043
          date: 2023-12-03 04:41:34.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2198 …}
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        -id: 191002
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':45 'answer':12 'communism':35 'communist':42 'first':47 'focus':43 'global':7 'happen':4 'incent':26 'isn':19 'know':33 'like':38 'look':37 'marx':29 'must':36 'never':30 'numer':11 'pretend':31 'question':15 'read':27 'remov':24 'scale':8 'simpl':22 'social':46 'theori':28 'transit':53 'well':52"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701574894 {#2139
          date: 2023-12-03 04:41:34.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 191002
      }
    ]
    -id: 18115
    -titleTs: "'balmer':2 'quot':3 'steve':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
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    +ranking: 1701332997
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    +apId: "https://infosec.pub/post/5461452"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701246597 {#2914
      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1741 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
  +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 8
  +score: 0
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    date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
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    "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
    "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
    "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
    "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
    "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
    "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
    "@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
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  -id: 180921
  -bodyTs: "'capit':24 'continu':22 'differ':9 'good':13 'look':7 'mani':12 'may':6 'much':2 'none':16 'outcom':14 'pretti':1 'star':4 'though':3 'trek':5 'wild':8"
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    date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 180921
}
 
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45 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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Show voter details
46 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
  +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
    +url: "https://infosec.pub/pictrs/image/32c79e75-7296-4275-9f35-6cfa1a74709c.webp"
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      date: 2023-12-09 05:51:58.0 +01:00
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -bodyTs: "'arbitrari':4 'capit':15 'capitalist':21 'chain':6 'control':19,35 'depict':8 'economi':33 'everyon':37 'follow':2 'form':10 'fraction':26 'logic':5 'market':17 'minor':25 'one':9 'popul':29 'repres':23 'social':12,31 'yes':13"
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:33:33.0 +01:00
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:43:12.0 +01:00
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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        -id: 180838
        -bodyTs: "'autom':11,13 'capit':7 'direct':25 'ensur':35 'eventu':5,16 'goe':38 'great':3 'import':33 'increas':12 'job':20 'learn':42 'loss':21 'mass':19 'mistak':52 'necessari':6 'outlast':10 'past':47 'product':14 'repeat':50 'result':17 'societi':27 'stagnat':23 'transit':37,44 'unless':24 'well':39 'whole':30"
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
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          "@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works"
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        -id: 180921
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372}
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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        -id: 181173
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
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        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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        -id: 181250
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701375225 {#2037
          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2080 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 182421
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701384960 {#2098
          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2129 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1527 …}
        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182444
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
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        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184617
        -bodyTs: "'affirm':57 'also':79 'apolog':162 'argu':4 'belief':175 'believ':68,80 'better':135 'capit':6,47 'capitalist':99,126,136 'chip':124 'choos':39 'claim':167 'comparison':96 'compet':44 'concept':37,107 'control':16,23,53,59,72,100 'decentr':109 'deliber':144 'democrat':15,111 'dictatori':22,71 'direct':91 'either':84,127 'exist':87 'favor':20,115 'flaw':147 'glove':155 'good':118,129 'growth':82 'hand':62 'highest':43 'highlight':145 'hold':173 'idea':13 'input':138 'kid':154 'logic':169 'men':119 'meritocraci':29 'must':10,78 'mystic':36 'necess':171 'non':86 'non-exist':85 'ownership':33 'pale':94 'peopl':130 'pretend':31 'product':101,113 'productuon':18 'put':121,152 'reject':11,50,105 'replac':133 'similar':66 'social':8 'theori':120 'therefor':102 'think':150 'thus':55 'typic':77 'ultim':46 'whitewash':26 'without':137,151 'won':160 'worker':52,90,141 'worth':74 'yes':157"
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2068 …}
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        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2072 …}
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
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        +"title": 184658
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 187261
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 188584
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 188584
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 190429
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          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 190429
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2198 …}
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        -id: 191002
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':45 'answer':12 'communism':35 'communist':42 'first':47 'focus':43 'global':7 'happen':4 'incent':26 'isn':19 'know':33 'like':38 'look':37 'marx':29 'must':36 'never':30 'numer':11 'pretend':31 'question':15 'read':27 'remov':24 'scale':8 'simpl':22 'social':46 'theori':28 'transit':53 'well':52"
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
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     …2
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  +body: """
    That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
    \n
    If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
    """
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}
 
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47 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
        -bodyTs: "'arbitrari':4 'capit':15 'capitalist':21 'chain':6 'control':19,35 'depict':8 'economi':33 'everyon':37 'follow':2 'form':10 'fraction':26 'logic':5 'market':17 'minor':25 'one':9 'popul':29 'repres':23 'social':12,31 'yes':13"
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:33:33.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 180620
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      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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        -id: 180771
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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        -id: 180838
        -bodyTs: "'autom':11,13 'capit':7 'direct':25 'ensur':35 'eventu':5,16 'goe':38 'great':3 'import':33 'increas':12 'job':20 'learn':42 'loss':21 'mass':19 'mistak':52 'necessari':6 'outlast':10 'past':47 'product':14 'repeat':50 'result':17 'societi':27 'stagnat':23 'transit':37,44 'unless':24 'well':39 'whole':30"
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372}
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
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        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2019 …}
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        -id: 181175
        -bodyTs: "'accur':12 'invari':18 'issu':7 'revolut':16 'say':14 'shit':21 'though':8 'turn':19 'word':6"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6804957"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701358956 {#1383
          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181175
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2018 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2025 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2013 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2035 …}
        -id: 181250
        -bodyTs: "'also':3 'backbon':9 'benign':28 'broad':21,39 'capit':18,35 'democraci':17 'evil':25 'germani':13 'histori':31 'incred':20 'isn':41 'maoism':49 'modern':15 'nazi':12 'reli':33 'similar':37 'social':16,36 'stalin':47 'state':29 'synonym':45 'worst':5"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701360171 {#2024
          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181250
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2075 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2061 …}
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6814971"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701375225 {#2037
          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2080 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2064 …}
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        -id: 182421
        -bodyTs: "'absurd':36 'actual':33 'caus':18 'claim':37 'collabor':52 'decentr':51 'democrat':54 'evil':22 'foss':60 'guest':29 'idea':49 'lemmi':64 'love':47,59 'mystic':15 'peopl':19 'person':45 'plan':4 'properti':16 'prove':10 'rather':65 'realiti':6,39 'reddit':67 'share':25 'theori':1 'though':40 'tie':34 'tool':12 'turn':21 'won':43"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6819730"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701384960 {#2098
          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2129 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1527 …}
        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
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        -id: 182444
        -bodyTs: "'30s':53 'actual':187 'agricultur':60 'anyth':178 'argu':177 'assum':118 'bad':175 'basket':65 'botch':57 'bread':64 'butcher':112 'cannot':153 'capit':93,94 'care':188 'civil':46 'clear':183 'coher':179 'collect':125 'collectiv':58 'combat':76 'compar':5 'complet':34,111 'continu':3 'control':122,126,133 'countri':19 'decentr':83 'definit':114,191 'develop':8,18 'disingenu':35 'enforc':148 'even':164 'everi':29 'exampl':166 'exist':105 'famin':50 'firm':85 'found':44 'frustrat':174 'fulli':7 'go':108 'graph':37 'horribl':56 'ideal':88 'ie':149 'incompat':91 'invad':66 'major':74 'mean':120,129 'mere':135 'monopoli':144 'nazi':79 'never':11 'one':136 'oppos':27 'otherwis':101 'path':137 'power':100 'privat':140,155 'product':131 'proper':190 'properti':141,156 'prove':167 'rather':123 're':2,173 'requir':95,142 'rest':21 'skin':13 'social':116,139 'socialist':87 'state':121,132,151,163 'steadi':82 'step':30 'still':33 'superpow':9 'threat':158 'took':71 'tri':25 'ussr':42 'via':161 'violenc':146,160 'volatil':39 'war':47 'without':157 'worker':97 'world':24 'wouldn':103 'wwii':15,68"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6819903"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701385345 {#2130
          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182444
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2060 …}
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        -id: 182450
        -bodyTs: "'1900s':13 'acknowledg':53 'capit':4,18 'countri':6 'decentr':57 'decid':38 'democraci':55 'develop':1,8 'everyth':49 'favor':20 'form':23 'get':31 'good':59 'group':35 'one':16,46 'own':48 'ownership':44 'peopl':30,37 'person':47 'reject':17 'richer':32 'right':42 'social':25 'think':28"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6820007"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701385499 {#2349
          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184617
        -bodyTs: "'affirm':57 'also':79 'apolog':162 'argu':4 'belief':175 'believ':68,80 'better':135 'capit':6,47 'capitalist':99,126,136 'chip':124 'choos':39 'claim':167 'comparison':96 'compet':44 'concept':37,107 'control':16,23,53,59,72,100 'decentr':109 'deliber':144 'democrat':15,111 'dictatori':22,71 'direct':91 'either':84,127 'exist':87 'favor':20,115 'flaw':147 'glove':155 'good':118,129 'growth':82 'hand':62 'highest':43 'highlight':145 'hold':173 'idea':13 'input':138 'kid':154 'logic':169 'men':119 'meritocraci':29 'must':10,78 'mystic':36 'necess':171 'non':86 'non-exist':85 'ownership':33 'pale':94 'peopl':130 'pretend':31 'product':101,113 'productuon':18 'put':121,152 'reject':11,50,105 'replac':133 'similar':66 'social':8 'theori':120 'therefor':102 'think':150 'thus':55 'typic':77 'ultim':46 'whitewash':26 'without':137,151 'won':160 'worker':52,90,141 'worth':74 'yes':157"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2068 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701437102 {#2136
          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2072 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2049 …}
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6843490"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701437102 {#2137
          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184658
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2057 …}
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        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6867153"
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2111 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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        +lastActive: DateTime @1701515310 {#2099
          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2101 …}
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        -id: 188584
        -bodyTs: "'becom':32 'come':18 'develop':20 'distribut':22 'everyth':5 'free':7 'get':4 'handl':24 'high':12 'longer':36 'necessari':37 'peopl':1 'practic':16 'product':9 'socialist':27 'state':28 'typic':29 'vestigi':33"
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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        -id: 190429
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
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     …2
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  +body: """
    That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
    \n
    If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
    """
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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48 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
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      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
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      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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        -id: 180838
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
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        -id: 180921
        -bodyTs: "'capit':24 'continu':22 'differ':9 'good':13 'look':7 'mani':12 'may':6 'much':2 'none':16 'outcom':14 'pretti':1 'star':4 'though':3 'trek':5 'wild':8"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701354588 {#1717
          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180921
      }
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372}
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1907 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'addit':51 'came':38 'capit':1,31,42 'cours':50 'declin':4 'fact':53 'factor':19 'factori':37 'go':29 'industri':24 'm':45 'misunderstand':46 'necessit':61 'never':26 'one':55 'point':48 'predict':56,64 'product':6 'rather':32 'respect':16 'rise':35,40 'roof':10 'seen':27 'sens':22 'stagnat':14 'though':5 'undeni':3 'unless':43 'wage':12 'wrong':58,66"
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181173
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1405 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 181175
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181175
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 181250
        -bodyTs: "'also':3 'backbon':9 'benign':28 'broad':21,39 'capit':18,35 'democraci':17 'evil':25 'germani':13 'histori':31 'incred':20 'isn':41 'maoism':49 'modern':15 'nazi':12 'reli':33 'similar':37 'social':16,36 'stalin':47 'state':29 'synonym':45 'worst':5"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181250
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701375225 {#2037
          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 182421
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6819730"
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2129 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1527 …}
        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'30s':53 'actual':187 'agricultur':60 'anyth':178 'argu':177 'assum':118 'bad':175 'basket':65 'botch':57 'bread':64 'butcher':112 'cannot':153 'capit':93,94 'care':188 'civil':46 'clear':183 'coher':179 'collect':125 'collectiv':58 'combat':76 'compar':5 'complet':34,111 'continu':3 'control':122,126,133 'countri':19 'decentr':83 'definit':114,191 'develop':8,18 'disingenu':35 'enforc':148 'even':164 'everi':29 'exampl':166 'exist':105 'famin':50 'firm':85 'found':44 'frustrat':174 'fulli':7 'go':108 'graph':37 'horribl':56 'ideal':88 'ie':149 'incompat':91 'invad':66 'major':74 'mean':120,129 'mere':135 'monopoli':144 'nazi':79 'never':11 'one':136 'oppos':27 'otherwis':101 'path':137 'power':100 'privat':140,155 'product':131 'proper':190 'properti':141,156 'prove':167 'rather':123 're':2,173 'requir':95,142 'rest':21 'skin':13 'social':116,139 'socialist':87 'state':121,132,151,163 'steadi':82 'step':30 'still':33 'superpow':9 'threat':158 'took':71 'tri':25 'ussr':42 'via':161 'violenc':146,160 'volatil':39 'war':47 'without':157 'worker':97 'world':24 'wouldn':103 'wwii':15,68"
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182444
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701385499 {#2349
          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
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        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'affirm':57 'also':79 'apolog':162 'argu':4 'belief':175 'believ':68,80 'better':135 'capit':6,47 'capitalist':99,126,136 'chip':124 'choos':39 'claim':167 'comparison':96 'compet':44 'concept':37,107 'control':16,23,53,59,72,100 'decentr':109 'deliber':144 'democrat':15,111 'dictatori':22,71 'direct':91 'either':84,127 'exist':87 'favor':20,115 'flaw':147 'glove':155 'good':118,129 'growth':82 'hand':62 'highest':43 'highlight':145 'hold':173 'idea':13 'input':138 'kid':154 'logic':169 'men':119 'meritocraci':29 'must':10,78 'mystic':36 'necess':171 'non':86 'non-exist':85 'ownership':33 'pale':94 'peopl':130 'pretend':31 'product':101,113 'productuon':18 'put':121,152 'reject':11,50,105 'replac':133 'similar':66 'social':8 'theori':120 'therefor':102 'think':150 'thus':55 'typic':77 'ultim':46 'whitewash':26 'without':137,151 'won':160 'worker':52,90,141 'worth':74 'yes':157"
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184658
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 187261
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
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          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 188584
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        +"title": 188584
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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        -id: 190429
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':35 'autom':11 'chore':18 'collect':47 'communism':32 'definit':25 'doesn':5 'except':44 'futurist':27 'get':13 'goal':28 'howev':19 'individu':50 'industri':45 'like':3 'modern':42 'nope':1 'own':51 'rather':48 'requir':7 'resourc':9 'scale':23 'similar':40 'social':37 'societ':22 'societi':43 'unlimit':8"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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    ]
    -id: 18115
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
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     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
    \n
    If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
    """
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  +"title": 181161
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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50 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
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      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
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      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:32:15.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 180771
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:32:15.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180771
      }
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 180838
        -bodyTs: "'autom':11,13 'capit':7 'direct':25 'ensur':35 'eventu':5,16 'goe':38 'great':3 'import':33 'increas':12 'job':20 'learn':42 'loss':21 'mass':19 'mistak':52 'necessari':6 'outlast':10 'past':47 'product':14 'repeat':50 'result':17 'societi':27 'stagnat':23 'transit':37,44 'unless':24 'well':39 'whole':30"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:58:18.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 180838
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
          "@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 181161
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 181161
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874}
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 181175
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 181250
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
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        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
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        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
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        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 184658
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 188584
        -bodyTs: "'becom':32 'come':18 'develop':20 'distribut':22 'everyth':5 'free':7 'get':4 'handl':24 'high':12 'longer':36 'necessari':37 'peopl':1 'practic':16 'product':9 'socialist':27 'state':28 'typic':29 'vestigi':33"
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 188584
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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        -id: 190429
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':35 'autom':11 'chore':18 'collect':47 'communism':32 'definit':25 'doesn':5 'except':44 'futurist':27 'get':13 'goal':28 'howev':19 'individu':50 'industri':45 'like':3 'modern':42 'nope':1 'own':51 'rather':48 'requir':7 'resourc':9 'scale':23 'similar':40 'social':37 'societ':22 'societi':43 'unlimit':8"
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          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 190429
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
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        +image: null
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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        -id: 191002
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        +"title": 191002
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    ]
    -id: 18115
    -titleTs: "'balmer':2 'quot':3 'steve':1"
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
    \n
    Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
    \n
    Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
    """
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  +"title": 181173
}
 
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Show voter details
51 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
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      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
        -bodyTs: "'arbitrari':4 'capit':15 'capitalist':21 'chain':6 'control':19,35 'depict':8 'economi':33 'everyon':37 'follow':2 'form':10 'fraction':26 'logic':5 'market':17 'minor':25 'one':9 'popul':29 'repres':23 'social':12,31 'yes':13"
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:33:33.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180620
      }
      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:43:12.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 180639
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      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 180771
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 180838
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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        -id: 181161
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        +"title": 181161
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874}
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
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        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
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        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
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          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 182444
        -bodyTs: "'30s':53 'actual':187 'agricultur':60 'anyth':178 'argu':177 'assum':118 'bad':175 'basket':65 'botch':57 'bread':64 'butcher':112 'cannot':153 'capit':93,94 'care':188 'civil':46 'clear':183 'coher':179 'collect':125 'collectiv':58 'combat':76 'compar':5 'complet':34,111 'continu':3 'control':122,126,133 'countri':19 'decentr':83 'definit':114,191 'develop':8,18 'disingenu':35 'enforc':148 'even':164 'everi':29 'exampl':166 'exist':105 'famin':50 'firm':85 'found':44 'frustrat':174 'fulli':7 'go':108 'graph':37 'horribl':56 'ideal':88 'ie':149 'incompat':91 'invad':66 'major':74 'mean':120,129 'mere':135 'monopoli':144 'nazi':79 'never':11 'one':136 'oppos':27 'otherwis':101 'path':137 'power':100 'privat':140,155 'product':131 'proper':190 'properti':141,156 'prove':167 'rather':123 're':2,173 'requir':95,142 'rest':21 'skin':13 'social':116,139 'socialist':87 'state':121,132,151,163 'steadi':82 'step':30 'still':33 'superpow':9 'threat':158 'took':71 'tri':25 'ussr':42 'via':161 'violenc':146,160 'volatil':39 'war':47 'without':157 'worker':97 'world':24 'wouldn':103 'wwii':15,68"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701385345 {#2130
          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182444
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 182450
        -bodyTs: "'1900s':13 'acknowledg':53 'capit':4,18 'countri':6 'decentr':57 'decid':38 'democraci':55 'develop':1,8 'everyth':49 'favor':20 'form':23 'get':31 'good':59 'group':35 'one':16,46 'own':48 'ownership':44 'peopl':30,37 'person':47 'reject':17 'richer':32 'right':42 'social':25 'think':28"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701385499 {#2349
          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184617
        -bodyTs: "'affirm':57 'also':79 'apolog':162 'argu':4 'belief':175 'believ':68,80 'better':135 'capit':6,47 'capitalist':99,126,136 'chip':124 'choos':39 'claim':167 'comparison':96 'compet':44 'concept':37,107 'control':16,23,53,59,72,100 'decentr':109 'deliber':144 'democrat':15,111 'dictatori':22,71 'direct':91 'either':84,127 'exist':87 'favor':20,115 'flaw':147 'glove':155 'good':118,129 'growth':82 'hand':62 'highest':43 'highlight':145 'hold':173 'idea':13 'input':138 'kid':154 'logic':169 'men':119 'meritocraci':29 'must':10,78 'mystic':36 'necess':171 'non':86 'non-exist':85 'ownership':33 'pale':94 'peopl':130 'pretend':31 'product':101,113 'productuon':18 'put':121,152 'reject':11,50,105 'replac':133 'similar':66 'social':8 'theori':120 'therefor':102 'think':150 'thus':55 'typic':77 'ultim':46 'whitewash':26 'without':137,151 'won':160 'worker':52,90,141 'worth':74 'yes':157"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701435846 {#2324
          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2068 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701437102 {#2136
          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2072 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2065 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2066 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2067 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2049 …}
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
        +ranking: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6843490"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701437102 {#2137
          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184658
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701479894 {#2059
          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2057 …}
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        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6867153"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701479894 {#2046
          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2111 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2101 …}
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        -id: 188584
        -bodyTs: "'becom':32 'come':18 'develop':20 'distribut':22 'everyth':5 'free':7 'get':4 'handl':24 'high':12 'longer':36 'necessari':37 'peopl':1 'practic':16 'product':9 'socialist':27 'state':28 'typic':29 'vestigi':33"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6877633"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701515310 {#2105
          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 188584
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2113 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
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          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2123 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2116 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2161 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2044 …}
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        -id: 190429
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':35 'autom':11 'chore':18 'collect':47 'communism':32 'definit':25 'doesn':5 'except':44 'futurist':27 'get':13 'goal':28 'howev':19 'individu':50 'industri':45 'like':3 'modern':42 'nope':1 'own':51 'rather':48 'requir':7 'resourc':9 'scale':23 'similar':40 'social':37 'societ':22 'societi':43 'unlimit':8"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6902320"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701567630 {#2122
          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 190429
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2224 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-03 04:41:34.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2198 …}
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        -id: 191002
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':45 'answer':12 'communism':35 'communist':42 'first':47 'focus':43 'global':7 'happen':4 'incent':26 'isn':19 'know':33 'like':38 'look':37 'marx':29 'must':36 'never':30 'numer':11 'pretend':31 'question':15 'read':27 'remov':24 'scale':8 'simpl':22 'social':46 'theori':28 'transit':53 'well':52"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701574894 {#2139
          date: 2023-12-03 04:41:34.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 191002
      }
    ]
    -id: 18115
    -titleTs: "'balmer':2 'quot':3 'steve':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1701332997
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    +apId: "https://infosec.pub/post/5461452"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701246597 {#2914
      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1907 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
  +body: """
    Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
    \n
    Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
    \n
    Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
    """
  +lang: "en"
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  +favouriteCount: 6
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    date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
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    "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
    "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
    "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
    "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
    "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
    "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
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  -id: 181173
  -bodyTs: "'addit':51 'came':38 'capit':1,31,42 'cours':50 'declin':4 'fact':53 'factor':19 'factori':37 'go':29 'industri':24 'm':45 'misunderstand':46 'necessit':61 'never':26 'one':55 'point':48 'predict':56,64 'product':6 'rather':32 'respect':16 'rise':35,40 'roof':10 'seen':27 'sens':22 'stagnat':14 'though':5 'undeni':3 'unless':43 'wage':12 'wrong':58,66"
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  +"title": 181173
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
52 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
  +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
    +url: "https://infosec.pub/pictrs/image/32c79e75-7296-4275-9f35-6cfa1a74709c.webp"
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      date: 2023-12-09 05:51:58.0 +01:00
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      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -bodyTs: "'arbitrari':4 'capit':15 'capitalist':21 'chain':6 'control':19,35 'depict':8 'economi':33 'everyon':37 'follow':2 'form':10 'fraction':26 'logic':5 'market':17 'minor':25 'one':9 'popul':29 'repres':23 'social':12,31 'yes':13"
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:33:33.0 +01:00
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      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:43:12.0 +01:00
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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        -id: 180838
        -bodyTs: "'autom':11,13 'capit':7 'direct':25 'ensur':35 'eventu':5,16 'goe':38 'great':3 'import':33 'increas':12 'job':20 'learn':42 'loss':21 'mass':19 'mistak':52 'necessari':6 'outlast':10 'past':47 'product':14 'repeat':50 'result':17 'societi':27 'stagnat':23 'transit':37,44 'unless':24 'well':39 'whole':30"
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874}
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
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        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701375225 {#2037
          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2080 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 182421
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701384960 {#2098
          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2129 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1527 …}
        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182444
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
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        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184617
        -bodyTs: "'affirm':57 'also':79 'apolog':162 'argu':4 'belief':175 'believ':68,80 'better':135 'capit':6,47 'capitalist':99,126,136 'chip':124 'choos':39 'claim':167 'comparison':96 'compet':44 'concept':37,107 'control':16,23,53,59,72,100 'decentr':109 'deliber':144 'democrat':15,111 'dictatori':22,71 'direct':91 'either':84,127 'exist':87 'favor':20,115 'flaw':147 'glove':155 'good':118,129 'growth':82 'hand':62 'highest':43 'highlight':145 'hold':173 'idea':13 'input':138 'kid':154 'logic':169 'men':119 'meritocraci':29 'must':10,78 'mystic':36 'necess':171 'non':86 'non-exist':85 'ownership':33 'pale':94 'peopl':130 'pretend':31 'product':101,113 'productuon':18 'put':121,152 'reject':11,50,105 'replac':133 'similar':66 'social':8 'theori':120 'therefor':102 'think':150 'thus':55 'typic':77 'ultim':46 'whitewash':26 'without':137,151 'won':160 'worker':52,90,141 'worth':74 'yes':157"
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2068 …}
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        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2072 …}
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
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        +"title": 184658
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 187261
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 188584
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 188584
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 190429
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          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 190429
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2198 …}
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
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     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
    \n
    Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
    \n
    Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
    """
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}
 
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54 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
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      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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        -id: 180771
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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        -id: 180838
        -bodyTs: "'autom':11,13 'capit':7 'direct':25 'ensur':35 'eventu':5,16 'goe':38 'great':3 'import':33 'increas':12 'job':20 'learn':42 'loss':21 'mass':19 'mistak':52 'necessari':6 'outlast':10 'past':47 'product':14 'repeat':50 'result':17 'societi':27 'stagnat':23 'transit':37,44 'unless':24 'well':39 'whole':30"
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
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        -id: 180921
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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        -id: 181161
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
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        -id: 181173
        -bodyTs: "'addit':51 'came':38 'capit':1,31,42 'cours':50 'declin':4 'fact':53 'factor':19 'factori':37 'go':29 'industri':24 'm':45 'misunderstand':46 'necessit':61 'never':26 'one':55 'point':48 'predict':56,64 'product':6 'rather':32 'respect':16 'rise':35,40 'roof':10 'seen':27 'sens':22 'stagnat':14 'though':5 'undeni':3 'unless':43 'wage':12 'wrong':58,66"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181173
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402}
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2018 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 181250
        -bodyTs: "'also':3 'backbon':9 'benign':28 'broad':21,39 'capit':18,35 'democraci':17 'evil':25 'germani':13 'histori':31 'incred':20 'isn':41 'maoism':49 'modern':15 'nazi':12 'reli':33 'similar':37 'social':16,36 'stalin':47 'state':29 'synonym':45 'worst':5"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181250
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2061 …}
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701375225 {#2037
          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2080 …}
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        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 182421
        -bodyTs: "'absurd':36 'actual':33 'caus':18 'claim':37 'collabor':52 'decentr':51 'democrat':54 'evil':22 'foss':60 'guest':29 'idea':49 'lemmi':64 'love':47,59 'mystic':15 'peopl':19 'person':45 'plan':4 'properti':16 'prove':10 'rather':65 'realiti':6,39 'reddit':67 'share':25 'theori':1 'though':40 'tie':34 'tool':12 'turn':21 'won':43"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6819730"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701384960 {#2098
          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2129 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1527 …}
        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
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        -id: 182444
        -bodyTs: "'30s':53 'actual':187 'agricultur':60 'anyth':178 'argu':177 'assum':118 'bad':175 'basket':65 'botch':57 'bread':64 'butcher':112 'cannot':153 'capit':93,94 'care':188 'civil':46 'clear':183 'coher':179 'collect':125 'collectiv':58 'combat':76 'compar':5 'complet':34,111 'continu':3 'control':122,126,133 'countri':19 'decentr':83 'definit':114,191 'develop':8,18 'disingenu':35 'enforc':148 'even':164 'everi':29 'exampl':166 'exist':105 'famin':50 'firm':85 'found':44 'frustrat':174 'fulli':7 'go':108 'graph':37 'horribl':56 'ideal':88 'ie':149 'incompat':91 'invad':66 'major':74 'mean':120,129 'mere':135 'monopoli':144 'nazi':79 'never':11 'one':136 'oppos':27 'otherwis':101 'path':137 'power':100 'privat':140,155 'product':131 'proper':190 'properti':141,156 'prove':167 'rather':123 're':2,173 'requir':95,142 'rest':21 'skin':13 'social':116,139 'socialist':87 'state':121,132,151,163 'steadi':82 'step':30 'still':33 'superpow':9 'threat':158 'took':71 'tri':25 'ussr':42 'via':161 'violenc':146,160 'volatil':39 'war':47 'without':157 'worker':97 'world':24 'wouldn':103 'wwii':15,68"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182444
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2060 …}
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        -id: 182450
        -bodyTs: "'1900s':13 'acknowledg':53 'capit':4,18 'countri':6 'decentr':57 'decid':38 'democraci':55 'develop':1,8 'everyth':49 'favor':20 'form':23 'get':31 'good':59 'group':35 'one':16,46 'own':48 'ownership':44 'peopl':30,37 'person':47 'reject':17 'richer':32 'right':42 'social':25 'think':28"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6820007"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701385499 {#2349
          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184617
        -bodyTs: "'affirm':57 'also':79 'apolog':162 'argu':4 'belief':175 'believ':68,80 'better':135 'capit':6,47 'capitalist':99,126,136 'chip':124 'choos':39 'claim':167 'comparison':96 'compet':44 'concept':37,107 'control':16,23,53,59,72,100 'decentr':109 'deliber':144 'democrat':15,111 'dictatori':22,71 'direct':91 'either':84,127 'exist':87 'favor':20,115 'flaw':147 'glove':155 'good':118,129 'growth':82 'hand':62 'highest':43 'highlight':145 'hold':173 'idea':13 'input':138 'kid':154 'logic':169 'men':119 'meritocraci':29 'must':10,78 'mystic':36 'necess':171 'non':86 'non-exist':85 'ownership':33 'pale':94 'peopl':130 'pretend':31 'product':101,113 'productuon':18 'put':121,152 'reject':11,50,105 'replac':133 'similar':66 'social':8 'theori':120 'therefor':102 'think':150 'thus':55 'typic':77 'ultim':46 'whitewash':26 'without':137,151 'won':160 'worker':52,90,141 'worth':74 'yes':157"
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2068 …}
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        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2072 …}
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6843490"
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184658
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701479894 {#2046
          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
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        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 188584
        -bodyTs: "'becom':32 'come':18 'develop':20 'distribut':22 'everyth':5 'free':7 'get':4 'handl':24 'high':12 'longer':36 'necessari':37 'peopl':1 'practic':16 'product':9 'socialist':27 'state':28 'typic':29 'vestigi':33"
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 188584
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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        -id: 190429
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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        -id: 191002
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    ]
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    -titleTs: "'balmer':2 'quot':3 'steve':1"
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
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     …2
  }
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  +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
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  +"title": 181175
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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55 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
  +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
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      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:33:33.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 180620
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      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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        -id: 180771
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 180838
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
          "@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works"
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        -id: 180921
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180921
      }
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181161
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 181173
        -bodyTs: "'addit':51 'came':38 'capit':1,31,42 'cours':50 'declin':4 'fact':53 'factor':19 'factori':37 'go':29 'industri':24 'm':45 'misunderstand':46 'necessit':61 'never':26 'one':55 'point':48 'predict':56,64 'product':6 'rather':32 'respect':16 'rise':35,40 'roof':10 'seen':27 'sens':22 'stagnat':14 'though':5 'undeni':3 'unless':43 'wage':12 'wrong':58,66"
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181173
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402}
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 181250
        -bodyTs: "'also':3 'backbon':9 'benign':28 'broad':21,39 'capit':18,35 'democraci':17 'evil':25 'germani':13 'histori':31 'incred':20 'isn':41 'maoism':49 'modern':15 'nazi':12 'reli':33 'similar':37 'social':16,36 'stalin':47 'state':29 'synonym':45 'worst':5"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181250
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
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        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6819730"
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
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      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
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        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
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        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'affirm':57 'also':79 'apolog':162 'argu':4 'belief':175 'believ':68,80 'better':135 'capit':6,47 'capitalist':99,126,136 'chip':124 'choos':39 'claim':167 'comparison':96 'compet':44 'concept':37,107 'control':16,23,53,59,72,100 'decentr':109 'deliber':144 'democrat':15,111 'dictatori':22,71 'direct':91 'either':84,127 'exist':87 'favor':20,115 'flaw':147 'glove':155 'good':118,129 'growth':82 'hand':62 'highest':43 'highlight':145 'hold':173 'idea':13 'input':138 'kid':154 'logic':169 'men':119 'meritocraci':29 'must':10,78 'mystic':36 'necess':171 'non':86 'non-exist':85 'ownership':33 'pale':94 'peopl':130 'pretend':31 'product':101,113 'productuon':18 'put':121,152 'reject':11,50,105 'replac':133 'similar':66 'social':8 'theori':120 'therefor':102 'think':150 'thus':55 'typic':77 'ultim':46 'whitewash':26 'without':137,151 'won':160 'worker':52,90,141 'worth':74 'yes':157"
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        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2068 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701437102 {#2136
          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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        +mentions: [
          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2072 …}
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184658
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 188584
        -bodyTs: "'becom':32 'come':18 'develop':20 'distribut':22 'everyth':5 'free':7 'get':4 'handl':24 'high':12 'longer':36 'necessari':37 'peopl':1 'practic':16 'product':9 'socialist':27 'state':28 'typic':29 'vestigi':33"
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 188584
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 190429
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':35 'autom':11 'chore':18 'collect':47 'communism':32 'definit':25 'doesn':5 'except':44 'futurist':27 'get':13 'goal':28 'howev':19 'individu':50 'industri':45 'like':3 'modern':42 'nope':1 'own':51 'rather':48 'requir':7 'resourc':9 'scale':23 'similar':40 'social':37 'societ':22 'societi':43 'unlimit':8"
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          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 190429
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2224 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2198 …}
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        -id: 191002
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        +"title": 191002
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    ]
    -id: 18115
    -titleTs: "'balmer':2 'quot':3 'steve':1"
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
  +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
  +lang: "en"
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    "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
    "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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    date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
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  +"title": 181175
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
56 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
  +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
    +url: "https://infosec.pub/pictrs/image/32c79e75-7296-4275-9f35-6cfa1a74709c.webp"
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      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
        -bodyTs: "'arbitrari':4 'capit':15 'capitalist':21 'chain':6 'control':19,35 'depict':8 'economi':33 'everyon':37 'follow':2 'form':10 'fraction':26 'logic':5 'market':17 'minor':25 'one':9 'popul':29 'repres':23 'social':12,31 'yes':13"
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:33:33.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180620
      }
      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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      }
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:32:15.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 180771
        -bodyTs: "'anoth':31 'classless':10 'communism':21,47 'ever':16 'genuin':2 'great':23 'heard':17,45 'imagin':6 'moneyless':11 'never':43 'peopl':18 'practic':36 'reason':29 'say':19 'societi':12 'sound':22 'stateless':9 'support':38 'theori':25,52 'unpleas':4,50 've':14,42 'work':34"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:32:15.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180771
      }
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:58:18.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 180838
        -bodyTs: "'autom':11,13 'capit':7 'direct':25 'ensur':35 'eventu':5,16 'goe':38 'great':3 'import':33 'increas':12 'job':20 'learn':42 'loss':21 'mass':19 'mistak':52 'necessari':6 'outlast':10 'past':47 'product':14 'repeat':50 'result':17 'societi':27 'stagnat':23 'transit':37,44 'unless':24 'well':39 'whole':30"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:58:18.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180838
      }
      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
          "@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 180921
        -bodyTs: "'capit':24 'continu':22 'differ':9 'good':13 'look':7 'mani':12 'may':6 'much':2 'none':16 'outcom':14 'pretti':1 'star':4 'though':3 'trek':5 'wild':8"
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180921
      }
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 181161
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181161
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 181173
        -bodyTs: "'addit':51 'came':38 'capit':1,31,42 'cours':50 'declin':4 'fact':53 'factor':19 'factori':37 'go':29 'industri':24 'm':45 'misunderstand':46 'necessit':61 'never':26 'one':55 'point':48 'predict':56,64 'product':6 'rather':32 'respect':16 'rise':35,40 'roof':10 'seen':27 'sens':22 'stagnat':14 'though':5 'undeni':3 'unless':43 'wage':12 'wrong':58,66"
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181173
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402}
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 181250
        -bodyTs: "'also':3 'backbon':9 'benign':28 'broad':21,39 'capit':18,35 'democraci':17 'evil':25 'germani':13 'histori':31 'incred':20 'isn':41 'maoism':49 'modern':15 'nazi':12 'reli':33 'similar':37 'social':16,36 'stalin':47 'state':29 'synonym':45 'worst':5"
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
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      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 181956
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
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        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
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        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
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      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
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        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 182450
        -bodyTs: "'1900s':13 'acknowledg':53 'capit':4,18 'countri':6 'decentr':57 'decid':38 'democraci':55 'develop':1,8 'everyth':49 'favor':20 'form':23 'get':31 'good':59 'group':35 'one':16,46 'own':48 'ownership':44 'peopl':30,37 'person':47 'reject':17 'richer':32 'right':42 'social':25 'think':28"
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701385499 {#2349
          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184617
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701435846 {#2324
          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2068 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701437102 {#2136
          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2072 …}
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184658
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2111 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2101 …}
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        -id: 188584
        -bodyTs: "'becom':32 'come':18 'develop':20 'distribut':22 'everyth':5 'free':7 'get':4 'handl':24 'high':12 'longer':36 'necessari':37 'peopl':1 'practic':16 'product':9 'socialist':27 'state':28 'typic':29 'vestigi':33"
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 188584
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2113 …}
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 190429
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':35 'autom':11 'chore':18 'collect':47 'communism':32 'definit':25 'doesn':5 'except':44 'futurist':27 'get':13 'goal':28 'howev':19 'individu':50 'industri':45 'like':3 'modern':42 'nope':1 'own':51 'rather':48 'requir':7 'resourc':9 'scale':23 'similar':40 'social':37 'societ':22 'societi':43 'unlimit':8"
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          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 190429
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2224 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-12-03 04:41:34.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2198 …}
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        -id: 191002
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        +"title": 191002
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    ]
    -id: 18115
    -titleTs: "'balmer':2 'quot':3 'steve':1"
    -bodyTs: null
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1405 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
  +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
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    "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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    "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
    "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
  ]
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  -id: 181175
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    date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 181175
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
57 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
58 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
  +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3174 …}
    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
    +url: "https://infosec.pub/pictrs/image/32c79e75-7296-4275-9f35-6cfa1a74709c.webp"
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    +type: "link"
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    +children: [
      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1679 …}
        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@Neon@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 180620
        -bodyTs: "'arbitrari':4 'capit':15 'capitalist':21 'chain':6 'control':19,35 'depict':8 'economi':33 'everyon':37 'follow':2 'form':10 'fraction':26 'logic':5 'market':17 'minor':25 'one':9 'popul':29 'repres':23 'social':12,31 'yes':13"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:33:33.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180620
      }
      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1567 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1527 …}
        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:43:12.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:43:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180639
      }
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 15
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:32:15.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 180771
        -bodyTs: "'anoth':31 'classless':10 'communism':21,47 'ever':16 'genuin':2 'great':23 'heard':17,45 'imagin':6 'moneyless':11 'never':43 'peopl':18 'practic':36 'reason':29 'say':19 'societi':12 'sound':22 'stateless':9 'support':38 'theori':25,52 'unpleas':4,50 've':14,42 'work':34"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:32:15.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180771
      }
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1737 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:58:18.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 180838
        -bodyTs: "'autom':11,13 'capit':7 'direct':25 'ensur':35 'eventu':5,16 'goe':38 'great':3 'import':33 'increas':12 'job':20 'learn':42 'loss':21 'mass':19 'mistak':52 'necessari':6 'outlast':10 'past':47 'product':14 'repeat':50 'result':17 'societi':27 'stagnat':23 'transit':37,44 'unless':24 'well':39 'whole':30"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701352698 {#1736
          date: 2023-11-30 14:58:18.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180838
      }
      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1741 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
          "@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 180921
        -bodyTs: "'capit':24 'continu':22 'differ':9 'good':13 'look':7 'mani':12 'may':6 'much':2 'none':16 'outcom':14 'pretti':1 'star':4 'though':3 'trek':5 'wild':8"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180921
      }
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2380 …}
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2386 …}
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        -id: 181161
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181161
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1907 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
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        -id: 181173
        -bodyTs: "'addit':51 'came':38 'capit':1,31,42 'cours':50 'declin':4 'fact':53 'factor':19 'factori':37 'go':29 'industri':24 'm':45 'misunderstand':46 'necessit':61 'never':26 'one':55 'point':48 'predict':56,64 'product':6 'rather':32 'respect':16 'rise':35,40 'roof':10 'seen':27 'sens':22 'stagnat':14 'though':5 'undeni':3 'unless':43 'wage':12 'wrong':58,66"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6804918"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701358899 {#1410
          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181173
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
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          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 181175
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181175
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6814971"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701375225 {#2037
          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
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        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 182421
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6819730"
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2129 …}
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        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
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          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182444
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
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        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
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        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
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          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 187261
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 187261
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 188584
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        +"title": 188584
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 190429
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        }
        +"title": 190429
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 191002
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        +"title": 191002
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    ]
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
    \n
    Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
    """
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    "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
    "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
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  -id: 181250
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    date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
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  +"title": 181250
}
 
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59 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
    +url: "https://infosec.pub/pictrs/image/32c79e75-7296-4275-9f35-6cfa1a74709c.webp"
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      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
        -bodyTs: "'arbitrari':4 'capit':15 'capitalist':21 'chain':6 'control':19,35 'depict':8 'economi':33 'everyon':37 'follow':2 'form':10 'fraction':26 'logic':5 'market':17 'minor':25 'one':9 'popul':29 'repres':23 'social':12,31 'yes':13"
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:33:33.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180620
      }
      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:43:12.0 +01:00
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      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 180771
        -bodyTs: "'anoth':31 'classless':10 'communism':21,47 'ever':16 'genuin':2 'great':23 'heard':17,45 'imagin':6 'moneyless':11 'never':43 'peopl':18 'practic':36 'reason':29 'say':19 'societi':12 'sound':22 'stateless':9 'support':38 'theori':25,52 'unpleas':4,50 've':14,42 'work':34"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:32:15.0 +01:00
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
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        ]
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        -id: 180838
        -bodyTs: "'autom':11,13 'capit':7 'direct':25 'ensur':35 'eventu':5,16 'goe':38 'great':3 'import':33 'increas':12 'job':20 'learn':42 'loss':21 'mass':19 'mistak':52 'necessari':6 'outlast':10 'past':47 'product':14 'repeat':50 'result':17 'societi':27 'stagnat':23 'transit':37,44 'unless':24 'well':39 'whole':30"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:58:18.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 180838
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
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          "@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works"
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        -id: 180921
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        +"title": 180921
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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        -id: 181161
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 181161
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 181173
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        +"title": 181173
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
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        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701375225 {#2037
          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2080 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 182421
        -bodyTs: "'absurd':36 'actual':33 'caus':18 'claim':37 'collabor':52 'decentr':51 'democrat':54 'evil':22 'foss':60 'guest':29 'idea':49 'lemmi':64 'love':47,59 'mystic':15 'peopl':19 'person':45 'plan':4 'properti':16 'prove':10 'rather':65 'realiti':6,39 'reddit':67 'share':25 'theori':1 'though':40 'tie':34 'tool':12 'turn':21 'won':43"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701384960 {#2098
          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2129 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1527 …}
        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
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        -id: 182444
        -bodyTs: "'30s':53 'actual':187 'agricultur':60 'anyth':178 'argu':177 'assum':118 'bad':175 'basket':65 'botch':57 'bread':64 'butcher':112 'cannot':153 'capit':93,94 'care':188 'civil':46 'clear':183 'coher':179 'collect':125 'collectiv':58 'combat':76 'compar':5 'complet':34,111 'continu':3 'control':122,126,133 'countri':19 'decentr':83 'definit':114,191 'develop':8,18 'disingenu':35 'enforc':148 'even':164 'everi':29 'exampl':166 'exist':105 'famin':50 'firm':85 'found':44 'frustrat':174 'fulli':7 'go':108 'graph':37 'horribl':56 'ideal':88 'ie':149 'incompat':91 'invad':66 'major':74 'mean':120,129 'mere':135 'monopoli':144 'nazi':79 'never':11 'one':136 'oppos':27 'otherwis':101 'path':137 'power':100 'privat':140,155 'product':131 'proper':190 'properti':141,156 'prove':167 'rather':123 're':2,173 'requir':95,142 'rest':21 'skin':13 'social':116,139 'socialist':87 'state':121,132,151,163 'steadi':82 'step':30 'still':33 'superpow':9 'threat':158 'took':71 'tri':25 'ussr':42 'via':161 'violenc':146,160 'volatil':39 'war':47 'without':157 'worker':97 'world':24 'wouldn':103 'wwii':15,68"
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182444
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 182450
        -bodyTs: "'1900s':13 'acknowledg':53 'capit':4,18 'countri':6 'decentr':57 'decid':38 'democraci':55 'develop':1,8 'everyth':49 'favor':20 'form':23 'get':31 'good':59 'group':35 'one':16,46 'own':48 'ownership':44 'peopl':30,37 'person':47 'reject':17 'richer':32 'right':42 'social':25 'think':28"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701385499 {#2349
          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184617
        -bodyTs: "'affirm':57 'also':79 'apolog':162 'argu':4 'belief':175 'believ':68,80 'better':135 'capit':6,47 'capitalist':99,126,136 'chip':124 'choos':39 'claim':167 'comparison':96 'compet':44 'concept':37,107 'control':16,23,53,59,72,100 'decentr':109 'deliber':144 'democrat':15,111 'dictatori':22,71 'direct':91 'either':84,127 'exist':87 'favor':20,115 'flaw':147 'glove':155 'good':118,129 'growth':82 'hand':62 'highest':43 'highlight':145 'hold':173 'idea':13 'input':138 'kid':154 'logic':169 'men':119 'meritocraci':29 'must':10,78 'mystic':36 'necess':171 'non':86 'non-exist':85 'ownership':33 'pale':94 'peopl':130 'pretend':31 'product':101,113 'productuon':18 'put':121,152 'reject':11,50,105 'replac':133 'similar':66 'social':8 'theori':120 'therefor':102 'think':150 'thus':55 'typic':77 'ultim':46 'whitewash':26 'without':137,151 'won':160 'worker':52,90,141 'worth':74 'yes':157"
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2068 …}
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        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2072 …}
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 184658
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2111 …}
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        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 188584
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 188584
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 190429
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':35 'autom':11 'chore':18 'collect':47 'communism':32 'definit':25 'doesn':5 'except':44 'futurist':27 'get':13 'goal':28 'howev':19 'individu':50 'industri':45 'like':3 'modern':42 'nope':1 'own':51 'rather':48 'requir':7 'resourc':9 'scale':23 'similar':40 'social':37 'societ':22 'societi':43 'unlimit':8"
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          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 190429
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
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     …2
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  +body: """
    It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
    \n
    Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
    """
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60 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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        -id: 180838
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
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        -id: 180921
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701358899 {#1926
          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
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        -id: 181173
        -bodyTs: "'addit':51 'came':38 'capit':1,31,42 'cours':50 'declin':4 'fact':53 'factor':19 'factori':37 'go':29 'industri':24 'm':45 'misunderstand':46 'necessit':61 'never':26 'one':55 'point':48 'predict':56,64 'product':6 'rather':32 'respect':16 'rise':35,40 'roof':10 'seen':27 'sens':22 'stagnat':14 'though':5 'undeni':3 'unless':43 'wage':12 'wrong':58,66"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6804918"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701358899 {#1410
          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181173
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1405 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701358956 {#1381
          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1385 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1401 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1363 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1362 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2019 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2030 …}
        -id: 181175
        -bodyTs: "'accur':12 'invari':18 'issu':7 'revolut':16 'say':14 'shit':21 'though':8 'turn':19 'word':6"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701358956 {#1383
          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181175
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2075 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 7
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701375225 {#2036
          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2061 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2084 …}
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        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2083 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2085 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2062 …}
        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
        +ranking: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6814971"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701375225 {#2037
          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2080 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 5
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        +lastActive: DateTime @1701384960 {#2077
          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2064 …}
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        -id: 182421
        -bodyTs: "'absurd':36 'actual':33 'caus':18 'claim':37 'collabor':52 'decentr':51 'democrat':54 'evil':22 'foss':60 'guest':29 'idea':49 'lemmi':64 'love':47,59 'mystic':15 'peopl':19 'person':45 'plan':4 'properti':16 'prove':10 'rather':65 'realiti':6,39 'reddit':67 'share':25 'theori':1 'though':40 'tie':34 'tool':12 'turn':21 'won':43"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6819730"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701384960 {#2098
          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2129 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1527 …}
        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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        +favouriteCount: 0
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
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        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
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        -id: 182444
        -bodyTs: "'30s':53 'actual':187 'agricultur':60 'anyth':178 'argu':177 'assum':118 'bad':175 'basket':65 'botch':57 'bread':64 'butcher':112 'cannot':153 'capit':93,94 'care':188 'civil':46 'clear':183 'coher':179 'collect':125 'collectiv':58 'combat':76 'compar':5 'complet':34,111 'continu':3 'control':122,126,133 'countri':19 'decentr':83 'definit':114,191 'develop':8,18 'disingenu':35 'enforc':148 'even':164 'everi':29 'exampl':166 'exist':105 'famin':50 'firm':85 'found':44 'frustrat':174 'fulli':7 'go':108 'graph':37 'horribl':56 'ideal':88 'ie':149 'incompat':91 'invad':66 'major':74 'mean':120,129 'mere':135 'monopoli':144 'nazi':79 'never':11 'one':136 'oppos':27 'otherwis':101 'path':137 'power':100 'privat':140,155 'product':131 'proper':190 'properti':141,156 'prove':167 'rather':123 're':2,173 'requir':95,142 'rest':21 'skin':13 'social':116,139 'socialist':87 'state':121,132,151,163 'steadi':82 'step':30 'still':33 'superpow':9 'threat':158 'took':71 'tri':25 'ussr':42 'via':161 'violenc':146,160 'volatil':39 'war':47 'without':157 'worker':97 'world':24 'wouldn':103 'wwii':15,68"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6819903"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701385345 {#2130
          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182444
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701385499 {#2344
          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2060 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2331 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2289 …}
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        -id: 182450
        -bodyTs: "'1900s':13 'acknowledg':53 'capit':4,18 'countri':6 'decentr':57 'decid':38 'democraci':55 'develop':1,8 'everyth':49 'favor':20 'form':23 'get':31 'good':59 'group':35 'one':16,46 'own':48 'ownership':44 'peopl':30,37 'person':47 'reject':17 'richer':32 'right':42 'social':25 'think':28"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6820007"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701385499 {#2349
          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2340 …}
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        -id: 184617
        -bodyTs: "'affirm':57 'also':79 'apolog':162 'argu':4 'belief':175 'believ':68,80 'better':135 'capit':6,47 'capitalist':99,126,136 'chip':124 'choos':39 'claim':167 'comparison':96 'compet':44 'concept':37,107 'control':16,23,53,59,72,100 'decentr':109 'deliber':144 'democrat':15,111 'dictatori':22,71 'direct':91 'either':84,127 'exist':87 'favor':20,115 'flaw':147 'glove':155 'good':118,129 'growth':82 'hand':62 'highest':43 'highlight':145 'hold':173 'idea':13 'input':138 'kid':154 'logic':169 'men':119 'meritocraci':29 'must':10,78 'mystic':36 'necess':171 'non':86 'non-exist':85 'ownership':33 'pale':94 'peopl':130 'pretend':31 'product':101,113 'productuon':18 'put':121,152 'reject':11,50,105 'replac':133 'similar':66 'social':8 'theori':120 'therefor':102 'think':150 'thus':55 'typic':77 'ultim':46 'whitewash':26 'without':137,151 'won':160 'worker':52,90,141 'worth':74 'yes':157"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6843092"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701435846 {#2324
          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2068 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701437102 {#2136
          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2072 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2049 …}
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6843490"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701437102 {#2137
          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184658
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2057 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2165 …}
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        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6867153"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701479894 {#2046
          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 188584
        -bodyTs: "'becom':32 'come':18 'develop':20 'distribut':22 'everyth':5 'free':7 'get':4 'handl':24 'high':12 'longer':36 'necessari':37 'peopl':1 'practic':16 'product':9 'socialist':27 'state':28 'typic':29 'vestigi':33"
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 188584
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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        -id: 190429
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':35 'autom':11 'chore':18 'collect':47 'communism':32 'definit':25 'doesn':5 'except':44 'futurist':27 'get':13 'goal':28 'howev':19 'individu':50 'industri':45 'like':3 'modern':42 'nope':1 'own':51 'rather':48 'requir':7 'resourc':9 'scale':23 'similar':40 'social':37 'societ':22 'societi':43 'unlimit':8"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
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     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
    \n
    Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
    """
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}
 
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
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      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
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      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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        -id: 180838
        -bodyTs: "'autom':11,13 'capit':7 'direct':25 'ensur':35 'eventu':5,16 'goe':38 'great':3 'import':33 'increas':12 'job':20 'learn':42 'loss':21 'mass':19 'mistak':52 'necessari':6 'outlast':10 'past':47 'product':14 'repeat':50 'result':17 'societi':27 'stagnat':23 'transit':37,44 'unless':24 'well':39 'whole':30"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:58:18.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180838
      }
      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
          "@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180921
      }
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181161
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'addit':51 'came':38 'capit':1,31,42 'cours':50 'declin':4 'fact':53 'factor':19 'factori':37 'go':29 'industri':24 'm':45 'misunderstand':46 'necessit':61 'never':26 'one':55 'point':48 'predict':56,64 'product':6 'rather':32 'respect':16 'rise':35,40 'roof':10 'seen':27 'sens':22 'stagnat':14 'though':5 'undeni':3 'unless':43 'wage':12 'wrong':58,66"
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 181173
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
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        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 181175
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'also':3 'backbon':9 'benign':28 'broad':21,39 'capit':18,35 'democraci':17 'evil':25 'germani':13 'histori':31 'incred':20 'isn':41 'maoism':49 'modern':15 'nazi':12 'reli':33 'similar':37 'social':16,36 'stalin':47 'state':29 'synonym':45 'worst':5"
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 181250
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144}
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
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      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
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        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
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        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2068 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184658
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
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        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 187261
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 188584
        -bodyTs: "'becom':32 'come':18 'develop':20 'distribut':22 'everyth':5 'free':7 'get':4 'handl':24 'high':12 'longer':36 'necessari':37 'peopl':1 'practic':16 'product':9 'socialist':27 'state':28 'typic':29 'vestigi':33"
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 188584
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 190429
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':35 'autom':11 'chore':18 'collect':47 'communism':32 'definit':25 'doesn':5 'except':44 'futurist':27 'get':13 'goal':28 'howev':19 'individu':50 'industri':45 'like':3 'modern':42 'nope':1 'own':51 'rather':48 'requir':7 'resourc':9 'scale':23 'similar':40 'social':37 'societ':22 'societi':43 'unlimit':8"
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          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 190429
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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        -id: 191002
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':45 'answer':12 'communism':35 'communist':42 'first':47 'focus':43 'global':7 'happen':4 'incent':26 'isn':19 'know':33 'like':38 'look':37 'marx':29 'must':36 'never':30 'numer':11 'pretend':31 'question':15 'read':27 'remov':24 'scale':8 'simpl':22 'social':46 'theori':28 'transit':53 'well':52"
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        +"title": 191002
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    ]
    -id: 18115
    -titleTs: "'balmer':2 'quot':3 'steve':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
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    +ranking: 1701332997
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
    \n
    It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
    """
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    "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
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    "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
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  -id: 181956
  -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
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  +"title": 181956
}
 
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Show voter details
63 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
  +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
    +url: "https://infosec.pub/pictrs/image/32c79e75-7296-4275-9f35-6cfa1a74709c.webp"
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      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
        -bodyTs: "'arbitrari':4 'capit':15 'capitalist':21 'chain':6 'control':19,35 'depict':8 'economi':33 'everyon':37 'follow':2 'form':10 'fraction':26 'logic':5 'market':17 'minor':25 'one':9 'popul':29 'repres':23 'social':12,31 'yes':13"
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:33:33.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180620
      }
      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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        -bodyTs: "'30s':6,35 '70s':8 'account':257 'achiev':340 'acknowledg':296 'activ':134 'actual':14 'also':267,293 'anoth':76 'attempt':158 'cannot':337 'capit':348 'cartoonish':189 'central':251,333 'civil':28 'collectiv':40,42 'combat':332 'combin':54 'common':209 'communiti':232 'comparison':141 'control':106,334 'countri':124 'damag':99 'decad':83 'decentr':321 'democrat':250 'develop':123,128 'didn':194 'dodg':95 'drop':18,77 'due':26,36 'economi':110 'enforc':234 'equal':310 'even':150 'excel':329 'expect':16 'export':103 'fair':140 'fals':192 'famin':38 'fantast':324 'far':68,132,146,172 'flaw':254 'food':48 'format':22 'free':56 'global':109 'good':198 'growth':90 'healthcar':57 'high':253 'hold':206 'horribl':272 'hous':60,148 'howev':290,335 'idea':182 'imo':142 'imperi':104 'import':294 'initi':61 'insan':89 'issu':203 'jump':52 'katyn':278 'last':82 'le':17,51,66,79 'learn':282,311 'life':15 'like':276,347 'littl':202 'lower':69 'luxuri':197 'manag':93 'mani':298 'mass':59 'massacr':279 'meaning':339 'near':126 'necess':205 'never':287 'nowher':125 'opinion':318 'ownership':207 'part':299 'peopl':167 'period':11 'politburo':263 'post':72 'post-ussr':71 'pre':64 'pre-ussr':63 'privat':219 'pro':243 'pro-ussr':242 'problem':149,162 'process':248 'properti':220,227 'public':226 'refer':4 'reign':117 'repeat':288 'requir':222 'right':221 'role':135 'secur':49 'sharpli':19,53 'societi':218 'solidifi':113 'solv':160 'stalin':269 'state':224 'stateless':217 'succeed':316 'superpow':118 'sustain':264 'system':346 'thing':325 'think':246,268 'thug':273 'time':10 'today':151 'top':187,344 'top-down':343 'tragedi':275 'tsar':179 'us':87,144,164 'ussr':25,46,65,73,120,154,157,170,244,302 'war':29 'wasn':2 'way':213,330 'wealthi':190 'work':304 'worker':260 'wors':147 'wwi':31 'wwii':44,101,137"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701348192 {#1550
          date: 2023-11-30 13:43:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180639
      }
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 15
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:32:15.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 180771
        -bodyTs: "'anoth':31 'classless':10 'communism':21,47 'ever':16 'genuin':2 'great':23 'heard':17,45 'imagin':6 'moneyless':11 'never':43 'peopl':18 'practic':36 'reason':29 'say':19 'societi':12 'sound':22 'stateless':9 'support':38 'theori':25,52 'unpleas':4,50 've':14,42 'work':34"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:32:15.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180771
      }
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1737 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:58:18.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 180838
        -bodyTs: "'autom':11,13 'capit':7 'direct':25 'ensur':35 'eventu':5,16 'goe':38 'great':3 'import':33 'increas':12 'job':20 'learn':42 'loss':21 'mass':19 'mistak':52 'necessari':6 'outlast':10 'past':47 'product':14 'repeat':50 'result':17 'societi':27 'stagnat':23 'transit':37,44 'unless':24 'well':39 'whole':30"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:58:18.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180838
      }
      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
          "@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 180921
        -bodyTs: "'capit':24 'continu':22 'differ':9 'good':13 'look':7 'mani':12 'may':6 'much':2 'none':16 'outcom':14 'pretti':1 'star':4 'though':3 'trek':5 'wild':8"
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180921
      }
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 181161
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181161
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
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        -id: 181173
        -bodyTs: "'addit':51 'came':38 'capit':1,31,42 'cours':50 'declin':4 'fact':53 'factor':19 'factori':37 'go':29 'industri':24 'm':45 'misunderstand':46 'necessit':61 'never':26 'one':55 'point':48 'predict':56,64 'product':6 'rather':32 'respect':16 'rise':35,40 'roof':10 'seen':27 'sens':22 'stagnat':14 'though':5 'undeni':3 'unless':43 'wage':12 'wrong':58,66"
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181173
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 181175
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 181175
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 181250
        -bodyTs: "'also':3 'backbon':9 'benign':28 'broad':21,39 'capit':18,35 'democraci':17 'evil':25 'germani':13 'histori':31 'incred':20 'isn':41 'maoism':49 'modern':15 'nazi':12 'reli':33 'similar':37 'social':16,36 'stalin':47 'state':29 'synonym':45 'worst':5"
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 181250
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144}
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 182421
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 182444
        -bodyTs: "'30s':53 'actual':187 'agricultur':60 'anyth':178 'argu':177 'assum':118 'bad':175 'basket':65 'botch':57 'bread':64 'butcher':112 'cannot':153 'capit':93,94 'care':188 'civil':46 'clear':183 'coher':179 'collect':125 'collectiv':58 'combat':76 'compar':5 'complet':34,111 'continu':3 'control':122,126,133 'countri':19 'decentr':83 'definit':114,191 'develop':8,18 'disingenu':35 'enforc':148 'even':164 'everi':29 'exampl':166 'exist':105 'famin':50 'firm':85 'found':44 'frustrat':174 'fulli':7 'go':108 'graph':37 'horribl':56 'ideal':88 'ie':149 'incompat':91 'invad':66 'major':74 'mean':120,129 'mere':135 'monopoli':144 'nazi':79 'never':11 'one':136 'oppos':27 'otherwis':101 'path':137 'power':100 'privat':140,155 'product':131 'proper':190 'properti':141,156 'prove':167 'rather':123 're':2,173 'requir':95,142 'rest':21 'skin':13 'social':116,139 'socialist':87 'state':121,132,151,163 'steadi':82 'step':30 'still':33 'superpow':9 'threat':158 'took':71 'tri':25 'ussr':42 'via':161 'violenc':146,160 'volatil':39 'war':47 'without':157 'worker':97 'world':24 'wouldn':103 'wwii':15,68"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701385345 {#2130
          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182444
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 182450
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184617
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2068 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2072 …}
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184658
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2111 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 188584
        -bodyTs: "'becom':32 'come':18 'develop':20 'distribut':22 'everyth':5 'free':7 'get':4 'handl':24 'high':12 'longer':36 'necessari':37 'peopl':1 'practic':16 'product':9 'socialist':27 'state':28 'typic':29 'vestigi':33"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 188584
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 190429
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':35 'autom':11 'chore':18 'collect':47 'communism':32 'definit':25 'doesn':5 'except':44 'futurist':27 'get':13 'goal':28 'howev':19 'individu':50 'industri':45 'like':3 'modern':42 'nope':1 'own':51 'rather':48 'requir':7 'resourc':9 'scale':23 'similar':40 'social':37 'societ':22 'societi':43 'unlimit':8"
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          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 190429
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 191002
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':45 'answer':12 'communism':35 'communist':42 'first':47 'focus':43 'global':7 'happen':4 'incent':26 'isn':19 'know':33 'like':38 'look':37 'marx':29 'must':36 'never':30 'numer':11 'pretend':31 'question':15 'read':27 'remov':24 'scale':8 'simpl':22 'social':46 'theori':28 'transit':53 'well':52"
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        +"title": 191002
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    ]
    -id: 18115
    -titleTs: "'balmer':2 'quot':3 'steve':1"
    -bodyTs: null
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    +upVotes: 0
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    +ranking: 1701332997
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
    \n
    It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
    """
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    "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
    "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
    "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
  ]
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  -id: 181956
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
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"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
64 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
    +url: "https://infosec.pub/pictrs/image/32c79e75-7296-4275-9f35-6cfa1a74709c.webp"
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      date: 2023-12-09 05:51:58.0 +01:00
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      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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          "@Neon@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 180620
        -bodyTs: "'arbitrari':4 'capit':15 'capitalist':21 'chain':6 'control':19,35 'depict':8 'economi':33 'everyon':37 'follow':2 'form':10 'fraction':26 'logic':5 'market':17 'minor':25 'one':9 'popul':29 'repres':23 'social':12,31 'yes':13"
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:33:33.0 +01:00
        }
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      }
      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:43:12.0 +01:00
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 180771
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 180838
        -bodyTs: "'autom':11,13 'capit':7 'direct':25 'ensur':35 'eventu':5,16 'goe':38 'great':3 'import':33 'increas':12 'job':20 'learn':42 'loss':21 'mass':19 'mistak':52 'necessari':6 'outlast':10 'past':47 'product':14 'repeat':50 'result':17 'societi':27 'stagnat':23 'transit':37,44 'unless':24 'well':39 'whole':30"
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
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          "@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works"
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        -id: 180921
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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        -id: 181173
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
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        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144}
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2080 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 182421
        -bodyTs: "'absurd':36 'actual':33 'caus':18 'claim':37 'collabor':52 'decentr':51 'democrat':54 'evil':22 'foss':60 'guest':29 'idea':49 'lemmi':64 'love':47,59 'mystic':15 'peopl':19 'person':45 'plan':4 'properti':16 'prove':10 'rather':65 'realiti':6,39 'reddit':67 'share':25 'theori':1 'though':40 'tie':34 'tool':12 'turn':21 'won':43"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701384960 {#2098
          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2129 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1527 …}
        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182444
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 182450
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184617
        -bodyTs: "'affirm':57 'also':79 'apolog':162 'argu':4 'belief':175 'believ':68,80 'better':135 'capit':6,47 'capitalist':99,126,136 'chip':124 'choos':39 'claim':167 'comparison':96 'compet':44 'concept':37,107 'control':16,23,53,59,72,100 'decentr':109 'deliber':144 'democrat':15,111 'dictatori':22,71 'direct':91 'either':84,127 'exist':87 'favor':20,115 'flaw':147 'glove':155 'good':118,129 'growth':82 'hand':62 'highest':43 'highlight':145 'hold':173 'idea':13 'input':138 'kid':154 'logic':169 'men':119 'meritocraci':29 'must':10,78 'mystic':36 'necess':171 'non':86 'non-exist':85 'ownership':33 'pale':94 'peopl':130 'pretend':31 'product':101,113 'productuon':18 'put':121,152 'reject':11,50,105 'replac':133 'similar':66 'social':8 'theori':120 'therefor':102 'think':150 'thus':55 'typic':77 'ultim':46 'whitewash':26 'without':137,151 'won':160 'worker':52,90,141 'worth':74 'yes':157"
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2068 …}
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        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2072 …}
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
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        +"title": 184658
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 187261
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 188584
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 188584
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 190429
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':35 'autom':11 'chore':18 'collect':47 'communism':32 'definit':25 'doesn':5 'except':44 'futurist':27 'get':13 'goal':28 'howev':19 'individu':50 'industri':45 'like':3 'modern':42 'nope':1 'own':51 'rather':48 'requir':7 'resourc':9 'scale':23 'similar':40 'social':37 'societ':22 'societi':43 'unlimit':8"
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          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 190429
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 191002
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          date: 2023-12-03 04:41:34.0 +01:00
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
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     …2
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  +body: """
    To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
    \n
    It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
    """
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
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      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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        -id: 180838
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
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        -id: 180921
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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        -id: 181161
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 181173
        -bodyTs: "'addit':51 'came':38 'capit':1,31,42 'cours':50 'declin':4 'fact':53 'factor':19 'factori':37 'go':29 'industri':24 'm':45 'misunderstand':46 'necessit':61 'never':26 'one':55 'point':48 'predict':56,64 'product':6 'rather':32 'respect':16 'rise':35,40 'roof':10 'seen':27 'sens':22 'stagnat':14 'though':5 'undeni':3 'unless':43 'wage':12 'wrong':58,66"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701358899 {#1410
          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181173
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1405 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1385 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1401 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2019 …}
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        -id: 181175
        -bodyTs: "'accur':12 'invari':18 'issu':7 'revolut':16 'say':14 'shit':21 'though':8 'turn':19 'word':6"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701358956 {#1383
          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181175
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2018 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2025 …}
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        -id: 181250
        -bodyTs: "'also':3 'backbon':9 'benign':28 'broad':21,39 'capit':18,35 'democraci':17 'evil':25 'germani':13 'histori':31 'incred':20 'isn':41 'maoism':49 'modern':15 'nazi':12 'reli':33 'similar':37 'social':16,36 'stalin':47 'state':29 'synonym':45 'worst':5"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701360171 {#2024
          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181250
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2075 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2061 …}
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701375225 {#2037
          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063}
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2129 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1527 …}
        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
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        -id: 182444
        -bodyTs: "'30s':53 'actual':187 'agricultur':60 'anyth':178 'argu':177 'assum':118 'bad':175 'basket':65 'botch':57 'bread':64 'butcher':112 'cannot':153 'capit':93,94 'care':188 'civil':46 'clear':183 'coher':179 'collect':125 'collectiv':58 'combat':76 'compar':5 'complet':34,111 'continu':3 'control':122,126,133 'countri':19 'decentr':83 'definit':114,191 'develop':8,18 'disingenu':35 'enforc':148 'even':164 'everi':29 'exampl':166 'exist':105 'famin':50 'firm':85 'found':44 'frustrat':174 'fulli':7 'go':108 'graph':37 'horribl':56 'ideal':88 'ie':149 'incompat':91 'invad':66 'major':74 'mean':120,129 'mere':135 'monopoli':144 'nazi':79 'never':11 'one':136 'oppos':27 'otherwis':101 'path':137 'power':100 'privat':140,155 'product':131 'proper':190 'properti':141,156 'prove':167 'rather':123 're':2,173 'requir':95,142 'rest':21 'skin':13 'social':116,139 'socialist':87 'state':121,132,151,163 'steadi':82 'step':30 'still':33 'superpow':9 'threat':158 'took':71 'tri':25 'ussr':42 'via':161 'violenc':146,160 'volatil':39 'war':47 'without':157 'worker':97 'world':24 'wouldn':103 'wwii':15,68"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701385345 {#2130
          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182444
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2060 …}
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        -id: 182450
        -bodyTs: "'1900s':13 'acknowledg':53 'capit':4,18 'countri':6 'decentr':57 'decid':38 'democraci':55 'develop':1,8 'everyth':49 'favor':20 'form':23 'get':31 'good':59 'group':35 'one':16,46 'own':48 'ownership':44 'peopl':30,37 'person':47 'reject':17 'richer':32 'right':42 'social':25 'think':28"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6820007"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701385499 {#2349
          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184617
        -bodyTs: "'affirm':57 'also':79 'apolog':162 'argu':4 'belief':175 'believ':68,80 'better':135 'capit':6,47 'capitalist':99,126,136 'chip':124 'choos':39 'claim':167 'comparison':96 'compet':44 'concept':37,107 'control':16,23,53,59,72,100 'decentr':109 'deliber':144 'democrat':15,111 'dictatori':22,71 'direct':91 'either':84,127 'exist':87 'favor':20,115 'flaw':147 'glove':155 'good':118,129 'growth':82 'hand':62 'highest':43 'highlight':145 'hold':173 'idea':13 'input':138 'kid':154 'logic':169 'men':119 'meritocraci':29 'must':10,78 'mystic':36 'necess':171 'non':86 'non-exist':85 'ownership':33 'pale':94 'peopl':130 'pretend':31 'product':101,113 'productuon':18 'put':121,152 'reject':11,50,105 'replac':133 'similar':66 'social':8 'theori':120 'therefor':102 'think':150 'thus':55 'typic':77 'ultim':46 'whitewash':26 'without':137,151 'won':160 'worker':52,90,141 'worth':74 'yes':157"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2068 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2072 …}
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6843490"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701437102 {#2137
          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184658
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2057 …}
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        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6867153"
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2111 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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        +lastActive: DateTime @1701515310 {#2099
          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2101 …}
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        -id: 188584
        -bodyTs: "'becom':32 'come':18 'develop':20 'distribut':22 'everyth':5 'free':7 'get':4 'handl':24 'high':12 'longer':36 'necessari':37 'peopl':1 'practic':16 'product':9 'socialist':27 'state':28 'typic':29 'vestigi':33"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 188584
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 190429
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':35 'autom':11 'chore':18 'collect':47 'communism':32 'definit':25 'doesn':5 'except':44 'futurist':27 'get':13 'goal':28 'howev':19 'individu':50 'industri':45 'like':3 'modern':42 'nope':1 'own':51 'rather':48 'requir':7 'resourc':9 'scale':23 'similar':40 'social':37 'societ':22 'societi':43 'unlimit':8"
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          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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    ]
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
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     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
    \n
    Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
    """
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67 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
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      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
        -bodyTs: "'arbitrari':4 'capit':15 'capitalist':21 'chain':6 'control':19,35 'depict':8 'economi':33 'everyon':37 'follow':2 'form':10 'fraction':26 'logic':5 'market':17 'minor':25 'one':9 'popul':29 'repres':23 'social':12,31 'yes':13"
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      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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        -id: 180771
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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        -id: 180838
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
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        -id: 180921
        -bodyTs: "'capit':24 'continu':22 'differ':9 'good':13 'look':7 'mani':12 'may':6 'much':2 'none':16 'outcom':14 'pretti':1 'star':4 'though':3 'trek':5 'wild':8"
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180921
      }
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181161
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'addit':51 'came':38 'capit':1,31,42 'cours':50 'declin':4 'fact':53 'factor':19 'factori':37 'go':29 'industri':24 'm':45 'misunderstand':46 'necessit':61 'never':26 'one':55 'point':48 'predict':56,64 'product':6 'rather':32 'respect':16 'rise':35,40 'roof':10 'seen':27 'sens':22 'stagnat':14 'though':5 'undeni':3 'unless':43 'wage':12 'wrong':58,66"
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181173
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
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        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 181175
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181250
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063}
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
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      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
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        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
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        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184658
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 187261
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 188584
        -bodyTs: "'becom':32 'come':18 'develop':20 'distribut':22 'everyth':5 'free':7 'get':4 'handl':24 'high':12 'longer':36 'necessari':37 'peopl':1 'practic':16 'product':9 'socialist':27 'state':28 'typic':29 'vestigi':33"
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 188584
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 190429
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':35 'autom':11 'chore':18 'collect':47 'communism':32 'definit':25 'doesn':5 'except':44 'futurist':27 'get':13 'goal':28 'howev':19 'individu':50 'industri':45 'like':3 'modern':42 'nope':1 'own':51 'rather':48 'requir':7 'resourc':9 'scale':23 'similar':40 'social':37 'societ':22 'societi':43 'unlimit':8"
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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        -id: 191002
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        +"title": 191002
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    ]
    -id: 18115
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
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     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
    \n
    Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
    """
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  +"title": 182421
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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Show voter details
68 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
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      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
        -bodyTs: "'arbitrari':4 'capit':15 'capitalist':21 'chain':6 'control':19,35 'depict':8 'economi':33 'everyon':37 'follow':2 'form':10 'fraction':26 'logic':5 'market':17 'minor':25 'one':9 'popul':29 'repres':23 'social':12,31 'yes':13"
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        +"title": 180620
      }
      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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        -id: 180771
        -bodyTs: "'anoth':31 'classless':10 'communism':21,47 'ever':16 'genuin':2 'great':23 'heard':17,45 'imagin':6 'moneyless':11 'never':43 'peopl':18 'practic':36 'reason':29 'say':19 'societi':12 'sound':22 'stateless':9 'support':38 'theori':25,52 'unpleas':4,50 've':14,42 'work':34"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:32:15.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180771
      }
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1737 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:58:18.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 180838
        -bodyTs: "'autom':11,13 'capit':7 'direct':25 'ensur':35 'eventu':5,16 'goe':38 'great':3 'import':33 'increas':12 'job':20 'learn':42 'loss':21 'mass':19 'mistak':52 'necessari':6 'outlast':10 'past':47 'product':14 'repeat':50 'result':17 'societi':27 'stagnat':23 'transit':37,44 'unless':24 'well':39 'whole':30"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:58:18.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180838
      }
      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
          "@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 180921
        -bodyTs: "'capit':24 'continu':22 'differ':9 'good':13 'look':7 'mani':12 'may':6 'much':2 'none':16 'outcom':14 'pretti':1 'star':4 'though':3 'trek':5 'wild':8"
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180921
      }
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 181161
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181161
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 181173
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181173
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 181175
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
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      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
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      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063}
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
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        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
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        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2068 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184658
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 187261
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 187261
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 188584
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        +"title": 188584
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 190429
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        +"title": 190429
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 191002
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        +"title": 191002
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    ]
    -id: 18115
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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  +body: """
    Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
    \n
    Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
    """
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    "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
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  +"title": 182421
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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69 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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70 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
    +url: "https://infosec.pub/pictrs/image/32c79e75-7296-4275-9f35-6cfa1a74709c.webp"
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    +children: [
      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1679 …}
        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
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        +"title": 180620
      }
      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:43:12.0 +01:00
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 180771
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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        -id: 180838
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
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          "@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works"
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        -id: 180921
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
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        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
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        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
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        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2064 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2088 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2087 …}
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        -id: 182421
        -bodyTs: "'absurd':36 'actual':33 'caus':18 'claim':37 'collabor':52 'decentr':51 'democrat':54 'evil':22 'foss':60 'guest':29 'idea':49 'lemmi':64 'love':47,59 'mystic':15 'peopl':19 'person':45 'plan':4 'properti':16 'prove':10 'rather':65 'realiti':6,39 'reddit':67 'share':25 'theori':1 'though':40 'tie':34 'tool':12 'turn':21 'won':43"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6819730"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701384960 {#2098
          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133}
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701385499 {#2344
          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2060 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2331 …}
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        -id: 182450
        -bodyTs: "'1900s':13 'acknowledg':53 'capit':4,18 'countri':6 'decentr':57 'decid':38 'democraci':55 'develop':1,8 'everyth':49 'favor':20 'form':23 'get':31 'good':59 'group':35 'one':16,46 'own':48 'ownership':44 'peopl':30,37 'person':47 'reject':17 'richer':32 'right':42 'social':25 'think':28"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6820007"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701385499 {#2349
          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184617
        -bodyTs: "'affirm':57 'also':79 'apolog':162 'argu':4 'belief':175 'believ':68,80 'better':135 'capit':6,47 'capitalist':99,126,136 'chip':124 'choos':39 'claim':167 'comparison':96 'compet':44 'concept':37,107 'control':16,23,53,59,72,100 'decentr':109 'deliber':144 'democrat':15,111 'dictatori':22,71 'direct':91 'either':84,127 'exist':87 'favor':20,115 'flaw':147 'glove':155 'good':118,129 'growth':82 'hand':62 'highest':43 'highlight':145 'hold':173 'idea':13 'input':138 'kid':154 'logic':169 'men':119 'meritocraci':29 'must':10,78 'mystic':36 'necess':171 'non':86 'non-exist':85 'ownership':33 'pale':94 'peopl':130 'pretend':31 'product':101,113 'productuon':18 'put':121,152 'reject':11,50,105 'replac':133 'similar':66 'social':8 'theori':120 'therefor':102 'think':150 'thus':55 'typic':77 'ultim':46 'whitewash':26 'without':137,151 'won':160 'worker':52,90,141 'worth':74 'yes':157"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701435846 {#2324
          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2068 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2072 …}
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6843490"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701437102 {#2137
          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184658
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701479894 {#2059
          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2057 …}
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        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
        +ranking: 0
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        +upVotes: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6867153"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701479894 {#2046
          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2111 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701515310 {#2099
          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2101 …}
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        -id: 188584
        -bodyTs: "'becom':32 'come':18 'develop':20 'distribut':22 'everyth':5 'free':7 'get':4 'handl':24 'high':12 'longer':36 'necessari':37 'peopl':1 'practic':16 'product':9 'socialist':27 'state':28 'typic':29 'vestigi':33"
        +ranking: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6877633"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701515310 {#2105
          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 188584
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2113 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701567630 {#2121
          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2123 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2116 …}
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        -id: 190429
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':35 'autom':11 'chore':18 'collect':47 'communism':32 'definit':25 'doesn':5 'except':44 'futurist':27 'get':13 'goal':28 'howev':19 'individu':50 'industri':45 'like':3 'modern':42 'nope':1 'own':51 'rather':48 'requir':7 'resourc':9 'scale':23 'similar':40 'social':37 'societ':22 'societi':43 'unlimit':8"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6902320"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701567630 {#2122
          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 190429
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2224 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701574894 {#2043
          date: 2023-12-03 04:41:34.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2198 …}
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        -id: 191002
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':45 'answer':12 'communism':35 'communist':42 'first':47 'focus':43 'global':7 'happen':4 'incent':26 'isn':19 'know':33 'like':38 'look':37 'marx':29 'must':36 'never':30 'numer':11 'pretend':31 'question':15 'read':27 'remov':24 'scale':8 'simpl':22 'social':46 'theori':28 'transit':53 'well':52"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-03 04:41:34.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 191002
      }
    ]
    -id: 18115
    -titleTs: "'balmer':2 'quot':3 'steve':1"
    -bodyTs: null
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    +upVotes: 0
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    +ranking: 1701332997
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    +apId: "https://infosec.pub/post/5461452"
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701246597 {#2914
      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2129 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1527 …}
  +body: """
    You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
    \n
    Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
    \n
    You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
    \n
    Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
    \n
    All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
    """
  +lang: "en"
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    date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
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    "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
    "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
    "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
    "@mojo@lemm.ee"
    "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
    "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
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  -id: 182444
  -bodyTs: "'30s':53 'actual':187 'agricultur':60 'anyth':178 'argu':177 'assum':118 'bad':175 'basket':65 'botch':57 'bread':64 'butcher':112 'cannot':153 'capit':93,94 'care':188 'civil':46 'clear':183 'coher':179 'collect':125 'collectiv':58 'combat':76 'compar':5 'complet':34,111 'continu':3 'control':122,126,133 'countri':19 'decentr':83 'definit':114,191 'develop':8,18 'disingenu':35 'enforc':148 'even':164 'everi':29 'exampl':166 'exist':105 'famin':50 'firm':85 'found':44 'frustrat':174 'fulli':7 'go':108 'graph':37 'horribl':56 'ideal':88 'ie':149 'incompat':91 'invad':66 'major':74 'mean':120,129 'mere':135 'monopoli':144 'nazi':79 'never':11 'one':136 'oppos':27 'otherwis':101 'path':137 'power':100 'privat':140,155 'product':131 'proper':190 'properti':141,156 'prove':167 'rather':123 're':2,173 'requir':95,142 'rest':21 'skin':13 'social':116,139 'socialist':87 'state':121,132,151,163 'steadi':82 'step':30 'still':33 'superpow':9 'threat':158 'took':71 'tri':25 'ussr':42 'via':161 'violenc':146,160 'volatil':39 'war':47 'without':157 'worker':97 'world':24 'wouldn':103 'wwii':15,68"
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  +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6819903"
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  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701385345 {#2130
    date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 182444
}
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
71 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
    +url: "https://infosec.pub/pictrs/image/32c79e75-7296-4275-9f35-6cfa1a74709c.webp"
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    +type: "link"
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      date: 2023-12-09 05:51:58.0 +01:00
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      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
        -bodyTs: "'arbitrari':4 'capit':15 'capitalist':21 'chain':6 'control':19,35 'depict':8 'economi':33 'everyon':37 'follow':2 'form':10 'fraction':26 'logic':5 'market':17 'minor':25 'one':9 'popul':29 'repres':23 'social':12,31 'yes':13"
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:33:33.0 +01:00
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      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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        -id: 180771
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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        -id: 180838
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
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        -id: 180921
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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        -id: 181161
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        +"title": 181161
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
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        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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        -id: 181250
        -bodyTs: "'also':3 'backbon':9 'benign':28 'broad':21,39 'capit':18,35 'democraci':17 'evil':25 'germani':13 'histori':31 'incred':20 'isn':41 'maoism':49 'modern':15 'nazi':12 'reli':33 'similar':37 'social':16,36 'stalin':47 'state':29 'synonym':45 'worst':5"
        +ranking: 0
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701360171 {#2024
          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181250
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2075 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701375225 {#2037
          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2080 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 182421
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701384960 {#2098
          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133}
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 182450
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
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        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2072 …}
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 184658
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2111 …}
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        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 188584
        -bodyTs: "'becom':32 'come':18 'develop':20 'distribut':22 'everyth':5 'free':7 'get':4 'handl':24 'high':12 'longer':36 'necessari':37 'peopl':1 'practic':16 'product':9 'socialist':27 'state':28 'typic':29 'vestigi':33"
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 188584
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2113 …}
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 190429
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':35 'autom':11 'chore':18 'collect':47 'communism':32 'definit':25 'doesn':5 'except':44 'futurist':27 'get':13 'goal':28 'howev':19 'individu':50 'industri':45 'like':3 'modern':42 'nope':1 'own':51 'rather':48 'requir':7 'resourc':9 'scale':23 'similar':40 'social':37 'societ':22 'societi':43 'unlimit':8"
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6902320"
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          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 190429
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 191002
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        }
        +"title": 191002
      }
    ]
    -id: 18115
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
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  +body: """
    You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
    \n
    Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
    \n
    You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
    \n
    Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
    \n
    All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
    """
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72 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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        -id: 180838
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
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        -id: 181173
        -bodyTs: "'addit':51 'came':38 'capit':1,31,42 'cours':50 'declin':4 'fact':53 'factor':19 'factori':37 'go':29 'industri':24 'm':45 'misunderstand':46 'necessit':61 'never':26 'one':55 'point':48 'predict':56,64 'product':6 'rather':32 'respect':16 'rise':35,40 'roof':10 'seen':27 'sens':22 'stagnat':14 'though':5 'undeni':3 'unless':43 'wage':12 'wrong':58,66"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6804918"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701358899 {#1410
          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181173
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1405 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701358956 {#1381
          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1385 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1401 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2019 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2030 …}
        -id: 181175
        -bodyTs: "'accur':12 'invari':18 'issu':7 'revolut':16 'say':14 'shit':21 'though':8 'turn':19 'word':6"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701358956 {#1383
          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181175
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2018 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 17
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        +lastActive: DateTime @1701360171 {#2026
          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2025 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2033 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2013 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2035 …}
        -id: 181250
        -bodyTs: "'also':3 'backbon':9 'benign':28 'broad':21,39 'capit':18,35 'democraci':17 'evil':25 'germani':13 'histori':31 'incred':20 'isn':41 'maoism':49 'modern':15 'nazi':12 'reli':33 'similar':37 'social':16,36 'stalin':47 'state':29 'synonym':45 'worst':5"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701360171 {#2024
          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181250
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2075 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 7
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701375225 {#2036
          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2061 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2085 …}
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6814971"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701375225 {#2037
          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2080 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 5
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701384960 {#2077
          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2064 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2088 …}
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        -id: 182421
        -bodyTs: "'absurd':36 'actual':33 'caus':18 'claim':37 'collabor':52 'decentr':51 'democrat':54 'evil':22 'foss':60 'guest':29 'idea':49 'lemmi':64 'love':47,59 'mystic':15 'peopl':19 'person':45 'plan':4 'properti':16 'prove':10 'rather':65 'realiti':6,39 'reddit':67 'share':25 'theori':1 'though':40 'tie':34 'tool':12 'turn':21 'won':43"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6819730"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701384960 {#2098
          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133}
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2060 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2331 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2289 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2325 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2329 …}
        -id: 182450
        -bodyTs: "'1900s':13 'acknowledg':53 'capit':4,18 'countri':6 'decentr':57 'decid':38 'democraci':55 'develop':1,8 'everyth':49 'favor':20 'form':23 'get':31 'good':59 'group':35 'one':16,46 'own':48 'ownership':44 'peopl':30,37 'person':47 'reject':17 'richer':32 'right':42 'social':25 'think':28"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6820007"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701385499 {#2349
          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2340 …}
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        -id: 184617
        -bodyTs: "'affirm':57 'also':79 'apolog':162 'argu':4 'belief':175 'believ':68,80 'better':135 'capit':6,47 'capitalist':99,126,136 'chip':124 'choos':39 'claim':167 'comparison':96 'compet':44 'concept':37,107 'control':16,23,53,59,72,100 'decentr':109 'deliber':144 'democrat':15,111 'dictatori':22,71 'direct':91 'either':84,127 'exist':87 'favor':20,115 'flaw':147 'glove':155 'good':118,129 'growth':82 'hand':62 'highest':43 'highlight':145 'hold':173 'idea':13 'input':138 'kid':154 'logic':169 'men':119 'meritocraci':29 'must':10,78 'mystic':36 'necess':171 'non':86 'non-exist':85 'ownership':33 'pale':94 'peopl':130 'pretend':31 'product':101,113 'productuon':18 'put':121,152 'reject':11,50,105 'replac':133 'similar':66 'social':8 'theori':120 'therefor':102 'think':150 'thus':55 'typic':77 'ultim':46 'whitewash':26 'without':137,151 'won':160 'worker':52,90,141 'worth':74 'yes':157"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6843092"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701435846 {#2324
          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2068 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701437102 {#2136
          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2072 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2049 …}
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6843490"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701437102 {#2137
          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184658
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 1
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701479894 {#2059
          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2057 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2165 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2104 …}
        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6867153"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701479894 {#2046
          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2111 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
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        +lastActive: DateTime @1701515310 {#2099
          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2101 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2124 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2118 …}
        -id: 188584
        -bodyTs: "'becom':32 'come':18 'develop':20 'distribut':22 'everyth':5 'free':7 'get':4 'handl':24 'high':12 'longer':36 'necessari':37 'peopl':1 'practic':16 'product':9 'socialist':27 'state':28 'typic':29 'vestigi':33"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6877633"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701515310 {#2105
          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 188584
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2113 …}
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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        -id: 190429
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':35 'autom':11 'chore':18 'collect':47 'communism':32 'definit':25 'doesn':5 'except':44 'futurist':27 'get':13 'goal':28 'howev':19 'individu':50 'industri':45 'like':3 'modern':42 'nope':1 'own':51 'rather':48 'requir':7 'resourc':9 'scale':23 'similar':40 'social':37 'societ':22 'societi':43 'unlimit':8"
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
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     …2
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  +body: """
    You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
    \n
    Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
    \n
    You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
    \n
    Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
    \n
    All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
    """
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
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      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
          "@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works"
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        -id: 180921
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180921
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 181161
        -bodyTs: "'answer':31 'attempt':44 'claim':9,21,37 'communism':46,54 'doesn':29 'exist':43 'initi':8,33 'invari':24 'issu':66 'lead':25 'question':34 'rather':52 'regardless':18 'shit':27 'theori':5 'think':16,50,59 'though':6 'truli':39 'unpleas':14,48,57 'word':68"
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181161
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'addit':51 'came':38 'capit':1,31,42 'cours':50 'declin':4 'fact':53 'factor':19 'factori':37 'go':29 'industri':24 'm':45 'misunderstand':46 'necessit':61 'never':26 'one':55 'point':48 'predict':56,64 'product':6 'rather':32 'respect':16 'rise':35,40 'roof':10 'seen':27 'sens':22 'stagnat':14 'though':5 'undeni':3 'unless':43 'wage':12 'wrong':58,66"
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
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      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
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        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 181175
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 181250
        -bodyTs: "'also':3 'backbon':9 'benign':28 'broad':21,39 'capit':18,35 'democraci':17 'evil':25 'germani':13 'histori':31 'incred':20 'isn':41 'maoism':49 'modern':15 'nazi':12 'reli':33 'similar':37 'social':16,36 'stalin':47 'state':29 'synonym':45 'worst':5"
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 181250
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
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      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 182421
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
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        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 182444
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042}
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701437102 {#2136
          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2072 …}
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701437102 {#2137
          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184658
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701479894 {#2046
          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2111 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2101 …}
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        -id: 188584
        -bodyTs: "'becom':32 'come':18 'develop':20 'distribut':22 'everyth':5 'free':7 'get':4 'handl':24 'high':12 'longer':36 'necessari':37 'peopl':1 'practic':16 'product':9 'socialist':27 'state':28 'typic':29 'vestigi':33"
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 188584
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2113 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2123 …}
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        -id: 190429
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':35 'autom':11 'chore':18 'collect':47 'communism':32 'definit':25 'doesn':5 'except':44 'futurist':27 'get':13 'goal':28 'howev':19 'individu':50 'industri':45 'like':3 'modern':42 'nope':1 'own':51 'rather':48 'requir':7 'resourc':9 'scale':23 'similar':40 'social':37 'societ':22 'societi':43 'unlimit':8"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701567630 {#2122
          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 190429
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2224 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2198 …}
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        -id: 191002
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':45 'answer':12 'communism':35 'communist':42 'first':47 'focus':43 'global':7 'happen':4 'incent':26 'isn':19 'know':33 'like':38 'look':37 'marx':29 'must':36 'never':30 'numer':11 'pretend':31 'question':15 'read':27 'remov':24 'scale':8 'simpl':22 'social':46 'theori':28 'transit':53 'well':52"
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          date: 2023-12-03 04:41:34.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 191002
      }
    ]
    -id: 18115
    -titleTs: "'balmer':2 'quot':3 'steve':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
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    +ranking: 1701332997
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
  +body: """
    Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
    \n
    Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
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    date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
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    "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
    "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
    "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
    "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
    "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
  ]
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  -id: 182450
  -bodyTs: "'1900s':13 'acknowledg':53 'capit':4,18 'countri':6 'decentr':57 'decid':38 'democraci':55 'develop':1,8 'everyth':49 'favor':20 'form':23 'get':31 'good':59 'group':35 'one':16,46 'own':48 'ownership':44 'peopl':30,37 'person':47 'reject':17 'richer':32 'right':42 'social':25 'think':28"
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  +"title": 182450
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
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Show voter details
75 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
  +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2684 …}
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2671 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3174 …}
    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
    +url: "https://infosec.pub/pictrs/image/32c79e75-7296-4275-9f35-6cfa1a74709c.webp"
    +body: null
    +type: "link"
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      date: 2023-12-09 05:51:58.0 +01:00
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3175 …}
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    +children: [
      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1679 …}
        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Neon@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 180620
        -bodyTs: "'arbitrari':4 'capit':15 'capitalist':21 'chain':6 'control':19,35 'depict':8 'economi':33 'everyon':37 'follow':2 'form':10 'fraction':26 'logic':5 'market':17 'minor':25 'one':9 'popul':29 'repres':23 'social':12,31 'yes':13"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:33:33.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180620
      }
      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1567 …}
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:43:12.0 +01:00
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        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1561 …}
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        -id: 180639
        -bodyTs: "'30s':6,35 '70s':8 'account':257 'achiev':340 'acknowledg':296 'activ':134 'actual':14 'also':267,293 'anoth':76 'attempt':158 'cannot':337 'capit':348 'cartoonish':189 'central':251,333 'civil':28 'collectiv':40,42 'combat':332 'combin':54 'common':209 'communiti':232 'comparison':141 'control':106,334 'countri':124 'damag':99 'decad':83 'decentr':321 'democrat':250 'develop':123,128 'didn':194 'dodg':95 'drop':18,77 'due':26,36 'economi':110 'enforc':234 'equal':310 'even':150 'excel':329 'expect':16 'export':103 'fair':140 'fals':192 'famin':38 'fantast':324 'far':68,132,146,172 'flaw':254 'food':48 'format':22 'free':56 'global':109 'good':198 'growth':90 'healthcar':57 'high':253 'hold':206 'horribl':272 'hous':60,148 'howev':290,335 'idea':182 'imo':142 'imperi':104 'import':294 'initi':61 'insan':89 'issu':203 'jump':52 'katyn':278 'last':82 'le':17,51,66,79 'learn':282,311 'life':15 'like':276,347 'littl':202 'lower':69 'luxuri':197 'manag':93 'mani':298 'mass':59 'massacr':279 'meaning':339 'near':126 'necess':205 'never':287 'nowher':125 'opinion':318 'ownership':207 'part':299 'peopl':167 'period':11 'politburo':263 'post':72 'post-ussr':71 'pre':64 'pre-ussr':63 'privat':219 'pro':243 'pro-ussr':242 'problem':149,162 'process':248 'properti':220,227 'public':226 'refer':4 'reign':117 'repeat':288 'requir':222 'right':221 'role':135 'secur':49 'sharpli':19,53 'societi':218 'solidifi':113 'solv':160 'stalin':269 'state':224 'stateless':217 'succeed':316 'superpow':118 'sustain':264 'system':346 'thing':325 'think':246,268 'thug':273 'time':10 'today':151 'top':187,344 'top-down':343 'tragedi':275 'tsar':179 'us':87,144,164 'ussr':25,46,65,73,120,154,157,170,244,302 'war':29 'wasn':2 'way':213,330 'wealthi':190 'work':304 'worker':260 'wors':147 'wwi':31 'wwii':44,101,137"
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:43:12.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 180639
      }
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1604 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 15
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:32:15.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 180771
        -bodyTs: "'anoth':31 'classless':10 'communism':21,47 'ever':16 'genuin':2 'great':23 'heard':17,45 'imagin':6 'moneyless':11 'never':43 'peopl':18 'practic':36 'reason':29 'say':19 'societi':12 'sound':22 'stateless':9 'support':38 'theori':25,52 'unpleas':4,50 've':14,42 'work':34"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:32:15.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180771
      }
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1737 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:58:18.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1734 …}
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        -id: 180838
        -bodyTs: "'autom':11,13 'capit':7 'direct':25 'ensur':35 'eventu':5,16 'goe':38 'great':3 'import':33 'increas':12 'job':20 'learn':42 'loss':21 'mass':19 'mistak':52 'necessari':6 'outlast':10 'past':47 'product':14 'repeat':50 'result':17 'societi':27 'stagnat':23 'transit':37,44 'unless':24 'well':39 'whole':30"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:58:18.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180838
      }
      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1741 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
          "@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 180921
        -bodyTs: "'capit':24 'continu':22 'differ':9 'good':13 'look':7 'mani':12 'may':6 'much':2 'none':16 'outcom':14 'pretti':1 'star':4 'though':3 'trek':5 'wild':8"
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180921
      }
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2386 …}
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        -id: 181161
        -bodyTs: "'answer':31 'attempt':44 'claim':9,21,37 'communism':46,54 'doesn':29 'exist':43 'initi':8,33 'invari':24 'issu':66 'lead':25 'question':34 'rather':52 'regardless':18 'shit':27 'theori':5 'think':16,50,59 'though':6 'truli':39 'unpleas':14,48,57 'word':68"
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181161
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 181173
        -bodyTs: "'addit':51 'came':38 'capit':1,31,42 'cours':50 'declin':4 'fact':53 'factor':19 'factori':37 'go':29 'industri':24 'm':45 'misunderstand':46 'necessit':61 'never':26 'one':55 'point':48 'predict':56,64 'product':6 'rather':32 'respect':16 'rise':35,40 'roof':10 'seen':27 'sens':22 'stagnat':14 'though':5 'undeni':3 'unless':43 'wage':12 'wrong':58,66"
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181173
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1385 …}
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        -id: 181175
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181175
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 181250
        -bodyTs: "'also':3 'backbon':9 'benign':28 'broad':21,39 'capit':18,35 'democraci':17 'evil':25 'germani':13 'histori':31 'incred':20 'isn':41 'maoism':49 'modern':15 'nazi':12 'reli':33 'similar':37 'social':16,36 'stalin':47 'state':29 'synonym':45 'worst':5"
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 181250
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
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        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 182444
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182444
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042}
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184658
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184658
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 187261
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 188584
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        +"title": 188584
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 190429
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':35 'autom':11 'chore':18 'collect':47 'communism':32 'definit':25 'doesn':5 'except':44 'futurist':27 'get':13 'goal':28 'howev':19 'individu':50 'industri':45 'like':3 'modern':42 'nope':1 'own':51 'rather':48 'requir':7 'resourc':9 'scale':23 'similar':40 'social':37 'societ':22 'societi':43 'unlimit':8"
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          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 190429
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
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        +image: null
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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        -id: 191002
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        +"title": 191002
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    ]
    -id: 18115
    -titleTs: "'balmer':2 'quot':3 'steve':1"
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
    \n
    Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
    """
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    "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
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    "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
  ]
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  -id: 182450
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  +"title": 182450
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
76 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
    +url: "https://infosec.pub/pictrs/image/32c79e75-7296-4275-9f35-6cfa1a74709c.webp"
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      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
        -bodyTs: "'arbitrari':4 'capit':15 'capitalist':21 'chain':6 'control':19,35 'depict':8 'economi':33 'everyon':37 'follow':2 'form':10 'fraction':26 'logic':5 'market':17 'minor':25 'one':9 'popul':29 'repres':23 'social':12,31 'yes':13"
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:33:33.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180620
      }
      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:43:12.0 +01:00
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      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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        -id: 180838
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
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          "@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works"
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
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        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 182421
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 182444
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042}
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
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        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 188584
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 190429
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        +"title": 190429
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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        -id: 191002
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
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    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
    \n
    Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
    """
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    "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
    "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
        -bodyTs: "'arbitrari':4 'capit':15 'capitalist':21 'chain':6 'control':19,35 'depict':8 'economi':33 'everyon':37 'follow':2 'form':10 'fraction':26 'logic':5 'market':17 'minor':25 'one':9 'popul':29 'repres':23 'social':12,31 'yes':13"
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:33:33.0 +01:00
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      }
      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:43:12.0 +01:00
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      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 180771
        -bodyTs: "'anoth':31 'classless':10 'communism':21,47 'ever':16 'genuin':2 'great':23 'heard':17,45 'imagin':6 'moneyless':11 'never':43 'peopl':18 'practic':36 'reason':29 'say':19 'societi':12 'sound':22 'stateless':9 'support':38 'theori':25,52 'unpleas':4,50 've':14,42 'work':34"
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 180838
        -bodyTs: "'autom':11,13 'capit':7 'direct':25 'ensur':35 'eventu':5,16 'goe':38 'great':3 'import':33 'increas':12 'job':20 'learn':42 'loss':21 'mass':19 'mistak':52 'necessari':6 'outlast':10 'past':47 'product':14 'repeat':50 'result':17 'societi':27 'stagnat':23 'transit':37,44 'unless':24 'well':39 'whole':30"
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
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          "@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works"
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        -id: 180921
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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        -id: 181161
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        +"title": 181161
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
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        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 181175
        -bodyTs: "'accur':12 'invari':18 'issu':7 'revolut':16 'say':14 'shit':21 'though':8 'turn':19 'word':6"
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181175
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 181250
        -bodyTs: "'also':3 'backbon':9 'benign':28 'broad':21,39 'capit':18,35 'democraci':17 'evil':25 'germani':13 'histori':31 'incred':20 'isn':41 'maoism':49 'modern':15 'nazi':12 'reli':33 'similar':37 'social':16,36 'stalin':47 'state':29 'synonym':45 'worst':5"
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181250
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2075 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 182421
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2129 …}
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        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 182450
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300}
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2068 …}
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        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184658
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2111 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 188584
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 188584
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 190429
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':35 'autom':11 'chore':18 'collect':47 'communism':32 'definit':25 'doesn':5 'except':44 'futurist':27 'get':13 'goal':28 'howev':19 'individu':50 'industri':45 'like':3 'modern':42 'nope':1 'own':51 'rather':48 'requir':7 'resourc':9 'scale':23 'similar':40 'social':37 'societ':22 'societi':43 'unlimit':8"
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6902320"
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          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 190429
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
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     …2
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  +body: """
    They are.\n
    \n
    To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
    \n
    Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
    \n
    Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
    \n
    Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
    """
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79 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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        -id: 180838
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 181161
        -bodyTs: "'answer':31 'attempt':44 'claim':9,21,37 'communism':46,54 'doesn':29 'exist':43 'initi':8,33 'invari':24 'issu':66 'lead':25 'question':34 'rather':52 'regardless':18 'shit':27 'theori':5 'think':16,50,59 'though':6 'truli':39 'unpleas':14,48,57 'word':68"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701358751 {#2364
          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181161
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1907 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 181173
        -bodyTs: "'addit':51 'came':38 'capit':1,31,42 'cours':50 'declin':4 'fact':53 'factor':19 'factori':37 'go':29 'industri':24 'm':45 'misunderstand':46 'necessit':61 'never':26 'one':55 'point':48 'predict':56,64 'product':6 'rather':32 'respect':16 'rise':35,40 'roof':10 'seen':27 'sens':22 'stagnat':14 'though':5 'undeni':3 'unless':43 'wage':12 'wrong':58,66"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701358899 {#1410
          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181173
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1405 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 181175
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181175
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 181250
        -bodyTs: "'also':3 'backbon':9 'benign':28 'broad':21,39 'capit':18,35 'democraci':17 'evil':25 'germani':13 'histori':31 'incred':20 'isn':41 'maoism':49 'modern':15 'nazi':12 'reli':33 'similar':37 'social':16,36 'stalin':47 'state':29 'synonym':45 'worst':5"
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181250
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
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        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 182421
        -bodyTs: "'absurd':36 'actual':33 'caus':18 'claim':37 'collabor':52 'decentr':51 'democrat':54 'evil':22 'foss':60 'guest':29 'idea':49 'lemmi':64 'love':47,59 'mystic':15 'peopl':19 'person':45 'plan':4 'properti':16 'prove':10 'rather':65 'realiti':6,39 'reddit':67 'share':25 'theori':1 'though':40 'tie':34 'tool':12 'turn':21 'won':43"
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2129 …}
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        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
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          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'30s':53 'actual':187 'agricultur':60 'anyth':178 'argu':177 'assum':118 'bad':175 'basket':65 'botch':57 'bread':64 'butcher':112 'cannot':153 'capit':93,94 'care':188 'civil':46 'clear':183 'coher':179 'collect':125 'collectiv':58 'combat':76 'compar':5 'complet':34,111 'continu':3 'control':122,126,133 'countri':19 'decentr':83 'definit':114,191 'develop':8,18 'disingenu':35 'enforc':148 'even':164 'everi':29 'exampl':166 'exist':105 'famin':50 'firm':85 'found':44 'frustrat':174 'fulli':7 'go':108 'graph':37 'horribl':56 'ideal':88 'ie':149 'incompat':91 'invad':66 'major':74 'mean':120,129 'mere':135 'monopoli':144 'nazi':79 'never':11 'one':136 'oppos':27 'otherwis':101 'path':137 'power':100 'privat':140,155 'product':131 'proper':190 'properti':141,156 'prove':167 'rather':123 're':2,173 'requir':95,142 'rest':21 'skin':13 'social':116,139 'socialist':87 'state':121,132,151,163 'steadi':82 'step':30 'still':33 'superpow':9 'threat':158 'took':71 'tri':25 'ussr':42 'via':161 'violenc':146,160 'volatil':39 'war':47 'without':157 'worker':97 'world':24 'wouldn':103 'wwii':15,68"
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
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      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
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        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 182450
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300}
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184658
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
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        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 188584
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 188584
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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        -id: 190429
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':35 'autom':11 'chore':18 'collect':47 'communism':32 'definit':25 'doesn':5 'except':44 'futurist':27 'get':13 'goal':28 'howev':19 'individu':50 'industri':45 'like':3 'modern':42 'nope':1 'own':51 'rather':48 'requir':7 'resourc':9 'scale':23 'similar':40 'social':37 'societ':22 'societi':43 'unlimit':8"
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
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     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    They are.\n
    \n
    To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
    \n
    Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
    \n
    Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
    \n
    Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
    """
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
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Show voter details
80 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
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      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
        -bodyTs: "'arbitrari':4 'capit':15 'capitalist':21 'chain':6 'control':19,35 'depict':8 'economi':33 'everyon':37 'follow':2 'form':10 'fraction':26 'logic':5 'market':17 'minor':25 'one':9 'popul':29 'repres':23 'social':12,31 'yes':13"
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      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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        -id: 180771
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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        -id: 180838
        -bodyTs: "'autom':11,13 'capit':7 'direct':25 'ensur':35 'eventu':5,16 'goe':38 'great':3 'import':33 'increas':12 'job':20 'learn':42 'loss':21 'mass':19 'mistak':52 'necessari':6 'outlast':10 'past':47 'product':14 'repeat':50 'result':17 'societi':27 'stagnat':23 'transit':37,44 'unless':24 'well':39 'whole':30"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:58:18.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180838
      }
      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
          "@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 180921
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180921
      }
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 181161
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
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      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
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        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 181175
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
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      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 181956
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
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      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
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        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
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        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
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        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
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      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300}
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184658
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 188584
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 188584
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 190429
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':35 'autom':11 'chore':18 'collect':47 'communism':32 'definit':25 'doesn':5 'except':44 'futurist':27 'get':13 'goal':28 'howev':19 'individu':50 'industri':45 'like':3 'modern':42 'nope':1 'own':51 'rather':48 'requir':7 'resourc':9 'scale':23 'similar':40 'social':37 'societ':22 'societi':43 'unlimit':8"
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        +"title": 190429
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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        -id: 191002
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
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  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
  +body: """
    They are.\n
    \n
    To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
    \n
    Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
    \n
    Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
    \n
    Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
    """
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  +"title": 184617
}
 
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81 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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82 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
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      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
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      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:43:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180639
      }
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
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        +image: null
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 15
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:32:15.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 180771
        -bodyTs: "'anoth':31 'classless':10 'communism':21,47 'ever':16 'genuin':2 'great':23 'heard':17,45 'imagin':6 'moneyless':11 'never':43 'peopl':18 'practic':36 'reason':29 'say':19 'societi':12 'sound':22 'stateless':9 'support':38 'theori':25,52 'unpleas':4,50 've':14,42 'work':34"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:32:15.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180771
      }
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1737 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:58:18.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 180838
        -bodyTs: "'autom':11,13 'capit':7 'direct':25 'ensur':35 'eventu':5,16 'goe':38 'great':3 'import':33 'increas':12 'job':20 'learn':42 'loss':21 'mass':19 'mistak':52 'necessari':6 'outlast':10 'past':47 'product':14 'repeat':50 'result':17 'societi':27 'stagnat':23 'transit':37,44 'unless':24 'well':39 'whole':30"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:58:18.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180838
      }
      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
          "@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 180921
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180921
      }
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2386 …}
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        -id: 181161
        -bodyTs: "'answer':31 'attempt':44 'claim':9,21,37 'communism':46,54 'doesn':29 'exist':43 'initi':8,33 'invari':24 'issu':66 'lead':25 'question':34 'rather':52 'regardless':18 'shit':27 'theori':5 'think':16,50,59 'though':6 'truli':39 'unpleas':14,48,57 'word':68"
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181161
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 181173
        -bodyTs: "'addit':51 'came':38 'capit':1,31,42 'cours':50 'declin':4 'fact':53 'factor':19 'factori':37 'go':29 'industri':24 'm':45 'misunderstand':46 'necessit':61 'never':26 'one':55 'point':48 'predict':56,64 'product':6 'rather':32 'respect':16 'rise':35,40 'roof':10 'seen':27 'sens':22 'stagnat':14 'though':5 'undeni':3 'unless':43 'wage':12 'wrong':58,66"
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 181173
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 181175
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 181175
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 181250
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        +"title": 181250
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
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        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 182421
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
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        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 182444
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182444
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 184617
        -bodyTs: "'affirm':57 'also':79 'apolog':162 'argu':4 'belief':175 'believ':68,80 'better':135 'capit':6,47 'capitalist':99,126,136 'chip':124 'choos':39 'claim':167 'comparison':96 'compet':44 'concept':37,107 'control':16,23,53,59,72,100 'decentr':109 'deliber':144 'democrat':15,111 'dictatori':22,71 'direct':91 'either':84,127 'exist':87 'favor':20,115 'flaw':147 'glove':155 'good':118,129 'growth':82 'hand':62 'highest':43 'highlight':145 'hold':173 'idea':13 'input':138 'kid':154 'logic':169 'men':119 'meritocraci':29 'must':10,78 'mystic':36 'necess':171 'non':86 'non-exist':85 'ownership':33 'pale':94 'peopl':130 'pretend':31 'product':101,113 'productuon':18 'put':121,152 'reject':11,50,105 'replac':133 'similar':66 'social':8 'theori':120 'therefor':102 'think':150 'thus':55 'typic':77 'ultim':46 'whitewash':26 'without':137,151 'won':160 'worker':52,90,141 'worth':74 'yes':157"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701435846 {#2324
          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073}
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
        +ranking: 0
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        +"title": 187261
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 188584
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        +"title": 188584
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 190429
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        +"title": 190429
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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        -id: 191002
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    ]
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
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     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
    \n
    Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
    """
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    "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
    "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
    "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
  ]
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  -id: 184658
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  +"title": 184658
}
 
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"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
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Show voter details
83 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
  +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3174 …}
    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
    +url: "https://infosec.pub/pictrs/image/32c79e75-7296-4275-9f35-6cfa1a74709c.webp"
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    +children: [
      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@Neon@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 180620
        -bodyTs: "'arbitrari':4 'capit':15 'capitalist':21 'chain':6 'control':19,35 'depict':8 'economi':33 'everyon':37 'follow':2 'form':10 'fraction':26 'logic':5 'market':17 'minor':25 'one':9 'popul':29 'repres':23 'social':12,31 'yes':13"
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:33:33.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180620
      }
      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:43:12.0 +01:00
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      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 180771
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 180838
        -bodyTs: "'autom':11,13 'capit':7 'direct':25 'ensur':35 'eventu':5,16 'goe':38 'great':3 'import':33 'increas':12 'job':20 'learn':42 'loss':21 'mass':19 'mistak':52 'necessari':6 'outlast':10 'past':47 'product':14 'repeat':50 'result':17 'societi':27 'stagnat':23 'transit':37,44 'unless':24 'well':39 'whole':30"
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
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          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
          "@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works"
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        -id: 180921
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
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        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2080 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 182421
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701384960 {#2098
          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2129 …}
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        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 182444
        -bodyTs: "'30s':53 'actual':187 'agricultur':60 'anyth':178 'argu':177 'assum':118 'bad':175 'basket':65 'botch':57 'bread':64 'butcher':112 'cannot':153 'capit':93,94 'care':188 'civil':46 'clear':183 'coher':179 'collect':125 'collectiv':58 'combat':76 'compar':5 'complet':34,111 'continu':3 'control':122,126,133 'countri':19 'decentr':83 'definit':114,191 'develop':8,18 'disingenu':35 'enforc':148 'even':164 'everi':29 'exampl':166 'exist':105 'famin':50 'firm':85 'found':44 'frustrat':174 'fulli':7 'go':108 'graph':37 'horribl':56 'ideal':88 'ie':149 'incompat':91 'invad':66 'major':74 'mean':120,129 'mere':135 'monopoli':144 'nazi':79 'never':11 'one':136 'oppos':27 'otherwis':101 'path':137 'power':100 'privat':140,155 'product':131 'proper':190 'properti':141,156 'prove':167 'rather':123 're':2,173 'requir':95,142 'rest':21 'skin':13 'social':116,139 'socialist':87 'state':121,132,151,163 'steadi':82 'step':30 'still':33 'superpow':9 'threat':158 'took':71 'tri':25 'ussr':42 'via':161 'violenc':146,160 'volatil':39 'war':47 'without':157 'worker':97 'world':24 'wouldn':103 'wwii':15,68"
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182444
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2060 …}
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        -id: 182450
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2340 …}
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        -id: 184617
        -bodyTs: "'affirm':57 'also':79 'apolog':162 'argu':4 'belief':175 'believ':68,80 'better':135 'capit':6,47 'capitalist':99,126,136 'chip':124 'choos':39 'claim':167 'comparison':96 'compet':44 'concept':37,107 'control':16,23,53,59,72,100 'decentr':109 'deliber':144 'democrat':15,111 'dictatori':22,71 'direct':91 'either':84,127 'exist':87 'favor':20,115 'flaw':147 'glove':155 'good':118,129 'growth':82 'hand':62 'highest':43 'highlight':145 'hold':173 'idea':13 'input':138 'kid':154 'logic':169 'men':119 'meritocraci':29 'must':10,78 'mystic':36 'necess':171 'non':86 'non-exist':85 'ownership':33 'pale':94 'peopl':130 'pretend':31 'product':101,113 'productuon':18 'put':121,152 'reject':11,50,105 'replac':133 'similar':66 'social':8 'theori':120 'therefor':102 'think':150 'thus':55 'typic':77 'ultim':46 'whitewash':26 'without':137,151 'won':160 'worker':52,90,141 'worth':74 'yes':157"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073}
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2057 …}
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        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2111 …}
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        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 188584
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 188584
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 190429
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':35 'autom':11 'chore':18 'collect':47 'communism':32 'definit':25 'doesn':5 'except':44 'futurist':27 'get':13 'goal':28 'howev':19 'individu':50 'industri':45 'like':3 'modern':42 'nope':1 'own':51 'rather':48 'requir':7 'resourc':9 'scale':23 'similar':40 'social':37 'societ':22 'societi':43 'unlimit':8"
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6902320"
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          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 190429
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 191002
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':45 'answer':12 'communism':35 'communist':42 'first':47 'focus':43 'global':7 'happen':4 'incent':26 'isn':19 'know':33 'like':38 'look':37 'marx':29 'must':36 'never':30 'numer':11 'pretend':31 'question':15 'read':27 'remov':24 'scale':8 'simpl':22 'social':46 'theori':28 'transit':53 'well':52"
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        +"title": 191002
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    ]
    -id: 18115
    -titleTs: "'balmer':2 'quot':3 'steve':1"
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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  +body: """
    Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
    \n
    Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
    """
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84 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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        -id: 180838
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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        -id: 181161
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        +"title": 181161
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1385 …}
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        -id: 181175
        -bodyTs: "'accur':12 'invari':18 'issu':7 'revolut':16 'say':14 'shit':21 'though':8 'turn':19 'word':6"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701358956 {#1383
          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181175
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2018 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2025 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2013 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2035 …}
        -id: 181250
        -bodyTs: "'also':3 'backbon':9 'benign':28 'broad':21,39 'capit':18,35 'democraci':17 'evil':25 'germani':13 'histori':31 'incred':20 'isn':41 'maoism':49 'modern':15 'nazi':12 'reli':33 'similar':37 'social':16,36 'stalin':47 'state':29 'synonym':45 'worst':5"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701360171 {#2024
          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181250
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2075 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2061 …}
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2080 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2064 …}
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        -id: 182421
        -bodyTs: "'absurd':36 'actual':33 'caus':18 'claim':37 'collabor':52 'decentr':51 'democrat':54 'evil':22 'foss':60 'guest':29 'idea':49 'lemmi':64 'love':47,59 'mystic':15 'peopl':19 'person':45 'plan':4 'properti':16 'prove':10 'rather':65 'realiti':6,39 'reddit':67 'share':25 'theori':1 'though':40 'tie':34 'tool':12 'turn':21 'won':43"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6819730"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701384960 {#2098
          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2129 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1527 …}
        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
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        -id: 182444
        -bodyTs: "'30s':53 'actual':187 'agricultur':60 'anyth':178 'argu':177 'assum':118 'bad':175 'basket':65 'botch':57 'bread':64 'butcher':112 'cannot':153 'capit':93,94 'care':188 'civil':46 'clear':183 'coher':179 'collect':125 'collectiv':58 'combat':76 'compar':5 'complet':34,111 'continu':3 'control':122,126,133 'countri':19 'decentr':83 'definit':114,191 'develop':8,18 'disingenu':35 'enforc':148 'even':164 'everi':29 'exampl':166 'exist':105 'famin':50 'firm':85 'found':44 'frustrat':174 'fulli':7 'go':108 'graph':37 'horribl':56 'ideal':88 'ie':149 'incompat':91 'invad':66 'major':74 'mean':120,129 'mere':135 'monopoli':144 'nazi':79 'never':11 'one':136 'oppos':27 'otherwis':101 'path':137 'power':100 'privat':140,155 'product':131 'proper':190 'properti':141,156 'prove':167 'rather':123 're':2,173 'requir':95,142 'rest':21 'skin':13 'social':116,139 'socialist':87 'state':121,132,151,163 'steadi':82 'step':30 'still':33 'superpow':9 'threat':158 'took':71 'tri':25 'ussr':42 'via':161 'violenc':146,160 'volatil':39 'war':47 'without':157 'worker':97 'world':24 'wouldn':103 'wwii':15,68"
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182444
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2060 …}
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        -id: 182450
        -bodyTs: "'1900s':13 'acknowledg':53 'capit':4,18 'countri':6 'decentr':57 'decid':38 'democraci':55 'develop':1,8 'everyth':49 'favor':20 'form':23 'get':31 'good':59 'group':35 'one':16,46 'own':48 'ownership':44 'peopl':30,37 'person':47 'reject':17 'richer':32 'right':42 'social':25 'think':28"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6820007"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701385499 {#2349
          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2340 …}
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        -id: 184617
        -bodyTs: "'affirm':57 'also':79 'apolog':162 'argu':4 'belief':175 'believ':68,80 'better':135 'capit':6,47 'capitalist':99,126,136 'chip':124 'choos':39 'claim':167 'comparison':96 'compet':44 'concept':37,107 'control':16,23,53,59,72,100 'decentr':109 'deliber':144 'democrat':15,111 'dictatori':22,71 'direct':91 'either':84,127 'exist':87 'favor':20,115 'flaw':147 'glove':155 'good':118,129 'growth':82 'hand':62 'highest':43 'highlight':145 'hold':173 'idea':13 'input':138 'kid':154 'logic':169 'men':119 'meritocraci':29 'must':10,78 'mystic':36 'necess':171 'non':86 'non-exist':85 'ownership':33 'pale':94 'peopl':130 'pretend':31 'product':101,113 'productuon':18 'put':121,152 'reject':11,50,105 'replac':133 'similar':66 'social':8 'theori':120 'therefor':102 'think':150 'thus':55 'typic':77 'ultim':46 'whitewash':26 'without':137,151 'won':160 'worker':52,90,141 'worth':74 'yes':157"
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6843092"
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073}
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2057 …}
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        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2111 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 188584
        -bodyTs: "'becom':32 'come':18 'develop':20 'distribut':22 'everyth':5 'free':7 'get':4 'handl':24 'high':12 'longer':36 'necessari':37 'peopl':1 'practic':16 'product':9 'socialist':27 'state':28 'typic':29 'vestigi':33"
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 188584
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2113 …}
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
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          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 190429
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':35 'autom':11 'chore':18 'collect':47 'communism':32 'definit':25 'doesn':5 'except':44 'futurist':27 'get':13 'goal':28 'howev':19 'individu':50 'industri':45 'like':3 'modern':42 'nope':1 'own':51 'rather':48 'requir':7 'resourc':9 'scale':23 'similar':40 'social':37 'societ':22 'societi':43 'unlimit':8"
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          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
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     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
    \n
    Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
    """
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}
 
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86 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
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      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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        -id: 180771
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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        -id: 180838
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
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        -id: 180921
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180921
      }
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181161
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 181173
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
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        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 181175
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 181250
        -bodyTs: "'also':3 'backbon':9 'benign':28 'broad':21,39 'capit':18,35 'democraci':17 'evil':25 'germani':13 'histori':31 'incred':20 'isn':41 'maoism':49 'modern':15 'nazi':12 'reli':33 'similar':37 'social':16,36 'stalin':47 'state':29 'synonym':45 'worst':5"
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181250
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
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      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
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        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 182421
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
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        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
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        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
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        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
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        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2068 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184658
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047}
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 188584
        -bodyTs: "'becom':32 'come':18 'develop':20 'distribut':22 'everyth':5 'free':7 'get':4 'handl':24 'high':12 'longer':36 'necessari':37 'peopl':1 'practic':16 'product':9 'socialist':27 'state':28 'typic':29 'vestigi':33"
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 188584
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 190429
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':35 'autom':11 'chore':18 'collect':47 'communism':32 'definit':25 'doesn':5 'except':44 'futurist':27 'get':13 'goal':28 'howev':19 'individu':50 'industri':45 'like':3 'modern':42 'nope':1 'own':51 'rather':48 'requir':7 'resourc':9 'scale':23 'similar':40 'social':37 'societ':22 'societi':43 'unlimit':8"
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          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 190429
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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        -id: 191002
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        +"title": 191002
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    ]
    -id: 18115
    -titleTs: "'balmer':2 'quot':3 'steve':1"
    -bodyTs: null
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
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  +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
  +lang: "en"
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    "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
    "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
  ]
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  -id: 187261
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  +"title": 187261
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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Show voter details
87 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
  +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
    +url: "https://infosec.pub/pictrs/image/32c79e75-7296-4275-9f35-6cfa1a74709c.webp"
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    +type: "link"
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      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
        -bodyTs: "'arbitrari':4 'capit':15 'capitalist':21 'chain':6 'control':19,35 'depict':8 'economi':33 'everyon':37 'follow':2 'form':10 'fraction':26 'logic':5 'market':17 'minor':25 'one':9 'popul':29 'repres':23 'social':12,31 'yes':13"
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:33:33.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180620
      }
      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 180771
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701351135 {#1620
          date: 2023-11-30 14:32:15.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180771
      }
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1737 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:58:18.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 180838
        -bodyTs: "'autom':11,13 'capit':7 'direct':25 'ensur':35 'eventu':5,16 'goe':38 'great':3 'import':33 'increas':12 'job':20 'learn':42 'loss':21 'mass':19 'mistak':52 'necessari':6 'outlast':10 'past':47 'product':14 'repeat':50 'result':17 'societi':27 'stagnat':23 'transit':37,44 'unless':24 'well':39 'whole':30"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:58:18.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180838
      }
      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
          "@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 180921
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180921
      }
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 181161
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181161
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 181173
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 181175
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 181175
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 181250
        -bodyTs: "'also':3 'backbon':9 'benign':28 'broad':21,39 'capit':18,35 'democraci':17 'evil':25 'germani':13 'histori':31 'incred':20 'isn':41 'maoism':49 'modern':15 'nazi':12 'reli':33 'similar':37 'social':16,36 'stalin':47 'state':29 'synonym':45 'worst':5"
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 181250
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 181956
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
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        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
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        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
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        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 182450
        -bodyTs: "'1900s':13 'acknowledg':53 'capit':4,18 'countri':6 'decentr':57 'decid':38 'democraci':55 'develop':1,8 'everyth':49 'favor':20 'form':23 'get':31 'good':59 'group':35 'one':16,46 'own':48 'ownership':44 'peopl':30,37 'person':47 'reject':17 'richer':32 'right':42 'social':25 'think':28"
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701385499 {#2349
          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
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        }
        +"title": 184658
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047}
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 188584
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 188584
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 190429
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        +"title": 190429
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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        -id: 191002
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        +"title": 191002
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    ]
    -id: 18115
    -titleTs: "'balmer':2 'quot':3 'steve':1"
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
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     …2
  }
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  +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
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"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
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Show voter details
88 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
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      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
        -bodyTs: "'arbitrari':4 'capit':15 'capitalist':21 'chain':6 'control':19,35 'depict':8 'economi':33 'everyon':37 'follow':2 'form':10 'fraction':26 'logic':5 'market':17 'minor':25 'one':9 'popul':29 'repres':23 'social':12,31 'yes':13"
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      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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        -bodyTs: "'30s':6,35 '70s':8 'account':257 'achiev':340 'acknowledg':296 'activ':134 'actual':14 'also':267,293 'anoth':76 'attempt':158 'cannot':337 'capit':348 'cartoonish':189 'central':251,333 'civil':28 'collectiv':40,42 'combat':332 'combin':54 'common':209 'communiti':232 'comparison':141 'control':106,334 'countri':124 'damag':99 'decad':83 'decentr':321 'democrat':250 'develop':123,128 'didn':194 'dodg':95 'drop':18,77 'due':26,36 'economi':110 'enforc':234 'equal':310 'even':150 'excel':329 'expect':16 'export':103 'fair':140 'fals':192 'famin':38 'fantast':324 'far':68,132,146,172 'flaw':254 'food':48 'format':22 'free':56 'global':109 'good':198 'growth':90 'healthcar':57 'high':253 'hold':206 'horribl':272 'hous':60,148 'howev':290,335 'idea':182 'imo':142 'imperi':104 'import':294 'initi':61 'insan':89 'issu':203 'jump':52 'katyn':278 'last':82 'le':17,51,66,79 'learn':282,311 'life':15 'like':276,347 'littl':202 'lower':69 'luxuri':197 'manag':93 'mani':298 'mass':59 'massacr':279 'meaning':339 'near':126 'necess':205 'never':287 'nowher':125 'opinion':318 'ownership':207 'part':299 'peopl':167 'period':11 'politburo':263 'post':72 'post-ussr':71 'pre':64 'pre-ussr':63 'privat':219 'pro':243 'pro-ussr':242 'problem':149,162 'process':248 'properti':220,227 'public':226 'refer':4 'reign':117 'repeat':288 'requir':222 'right':221 'role':135 'secur':49 'sharpli':19,53 'societi':218 'solidifi':113 'solv':160 'stalin':269 'state':224 'stateless':217 'succeed':316 'superpow':118 'sustain':264 'system':346 'thing':325 'think':246,268 'thug':273 'time':10 'today':151 'top':187,344 'top-down':343 'tragedi':275 'tsar':179 'us':87,144,164 'ussr':25,46,65,73,120,154,157,170,244,302 'war':29 'wasn':2 'way':213,330 'wealthi':190 'work':304 'worker':260 'wors':147 'wwi':31 'wwii':44,101,137"
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:43:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180639
      }
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
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        +image: null
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:32:15.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 180771
        -bodyTs: "'anoth':31 'classless':10 'communism':21,47 'ever':16 'genuin':2 'great':23 'heard':17,45 'imagin':6 'moneyless':11 'never':43 'peopl':18 'practic':36 'reason':29 'say':19 'societi':12 'sound':22 'stateless':9 'support':38 'theori':25,52 'unpleas':4,50 've':14,42 'work':34"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:32:15.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 180771
      }
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:58:18.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 180838
        -bodyTs: "'autom':11,13 'capit':7 'direct':25 'ensur':35 'eventu':5,16 'goe':38 'great':3 'import':33 'increas':12 'job':20 'learn':42 'loss':21 'mass':19 'mistak':52 'necessari':6 'outlast':10 'past':47 'product':14 'repeat':50 'result':17 'societi':27 'stagnat':23 'transit':37,44 'unless':24 'well':39 'whole':30"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:58:18.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180838
      }
      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
          "@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 180921
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180921
      }
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 181161
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181161
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 181173
        -bodyTs: "'addit':51 'came':38 'capit':1,31,42 'cours':50 'declin':4 'fact':53 'factor':19 'factori':37 'go':29 'industri':24 'm':45 'misunderstand':46 'necessit':61 'never':26 'one':55 'point':48 'predict':56,64 'product':6 'rather':32 'respect':16 'rise':35,40 'roof':10 'seen':27 'sens':22 'stagnat':14 'though':5 'undeni':3 'unless':43 'wage':12 'wrong':58,66"
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 181173
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 181175
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 181175
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 181250
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      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
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        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 182421
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
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        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182444
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 4
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2060 …}
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        -id: 182450
        -bodyTs: "'1900s':13 'acknowledg':53 'capit':4,18 'countri':6 'decentr':57 'decid':38 'democraci':55 'develop':1,8 'everyth':49 'favor':20 'form':23 'get':31 'good':59 'group':35 'one':16,46 'own':48 'ownership':44 'peopl':30,37 'person':47 'reject':17 'richer':32 'right':42 'social':25 'think':28"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701385499 {#2349
          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184617
        -bodyTs: "'affirm':57 'also':79 'apolog':162 'argu':4 'belief':175 'believ':68,80 'better':135 'capit':6,47 'capitalist':99,126,136 'chip':124 'choos':39 'claim':167 'comparison':96 'compet':44 'concept':37,107 'control':16,23,53,59,72,100 'decentr':109 'deliber':144 'democrat':15,111 'dictatori':22,71 'direct':91 'either':84,127 'exist':87 'favor':20,115 'flaw':147 'glove':155 'good':118,129 'growth':82 'hand':62 'highest':43 'highlight':145 'hold':173 'idea':13 'input':138 'kid':154 'logic':169 'men':119 'meritocraci':29 'must':10,78 'mystic':36 'necess':171 'non':86 'non-exist':85 'ownership':33 'pale':94 'peopl':130 'pretend':31 'product':101,113 'productuon':18 'put':121,152 'reject':11,50,105 'replac':133 'similar':66 'social':8 'theori':120 'therefor':102 'think':150 'thus':55 'typic':77 'ultim':46 'whitewash':26 'without':137,151 'won':160 'worker':52,90,141 'worth':74 'yes':157"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6843092"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701435846 {#2324
          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2068 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2072 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2065 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2066 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2049 …}
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184658
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047}
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2111 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2101 …}
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        -id: 188584
        -bodyTs: "'becom':32 'come':18 'develop':20 'distribut':22 'everyth':5 'free':7 'get':4 'handl':24 'high':12 'longer':36 'necessari':37 'peopl':1 'practic':16 'product':9 'socialist':27 'state':28 'typic':29 'vestigi':33"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6877633"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701515310 {#2105
          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 188584
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2113 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 0
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        +lastActive: DateTime @1701567630 {#2121
          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2123 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2116 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2161 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2163 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2044 …}
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        -id: 190429
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':35 'autom':11 'chore':18 'collect':47 'communism':32 'definit':25 'doesn':5 'except':44 'futurist':27 'get':13 'goal':28 'howev':19 'individu':50 'industri':45 'like':3 'modern':42 'nope':1 'own':51 'rather':48 'requir':7 'resourc':9 'scale':23 'similar':40 'social':37 'societ':22 'societi':43 'unlimit':8"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6902320"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701567630 {#2122
          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 190429
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2224 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-03 04:41:34.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 191002
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':45 'answer':12 'communism':35 'communist':42 'first':47 'focus':43 'global':7 'happen':4 'incent':26 'isn':19 'know':33 'like':38 'look':37 'marx':29 'must':36 'never':30 'numer':11 'pretend':31 'question':15 'read':27 'remov':24 'scale':8 'simpl':22 'social':46 'theori':28 'transit':53 'well':52"
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          date: 2023-12-03 04:41:34.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 191002
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    ]
    -id: 18115
    -titleTs: "'balmer':2 'quot':3 'steve':1"
    -bodyTs: null
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
  +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
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    "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
    "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
    "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
    "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
    "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
  ]
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  -id: 187261
  -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
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    date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 187261
}
 
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90 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
  +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2671 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3174 …}
    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
    +url: "https://infosec.pub/pictrs/image/32c79e75-7296-4275-9f35-6cfa1a74709c.webp"
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      date: 2023-12-09 05:51:58.0 +01:00
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:33:33.0 +01:00
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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        -id: 180838
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
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        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181250
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2075 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701375225 {#2037
          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2080 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 182421
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182444
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
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        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
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        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184617
        -bodyTs: "'affirm':57 'also':79 'apolog':162 'argu':4 'belief':175 'believ':68,80 'better':135 'capit':6,47 'capitalist':99,126,136 'chip':124 'choos':39 'claim':167 'comparison':96 'compet':44 'concept':37,107 'control':16,23,53,59,72,100 'decentr':109 'deliber':144 'democrat':15,111 'dictatori':22,71 'direct':91 'either':84,127 'exist':87 'favor':20,115 'flaw':147 'glove':155 'good':118,129 'growth':82 'hand':62 'highest':43 'highlight':145 'hold':173 'idea':13 'input':138 'kid':154 'logic':169 'men':119 'meritocraci':29 'must':10,78 'mystic':36 'necess':171 'non':86 'non-exist':85 'ownership':33 'pale':94 'peopl':130 'pretend':31 'product':101,113 'productuon':18 'put':121,152 'reject':11,50,105 'replac':133 'similar':66 'social':8 'theori':120 'therefor':102 'think':150 'thus':55 'typic':77 'ultim':46 'whitewash':26 'without':137,151 'won':160 'worker':52,90,141 'worth':74 'yes':157"
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184658
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        }
        +"title": 184658
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 187261
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108}
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 190429
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':35 'autom':11 'chore':18 'collect':47 'communism':32 'definit':25 'doesn':5 'except':44 'futurist':27 'get':13 'goal':28 'howev':19 'individu':50 'industri':45 'like':3 'modern':42 'nope':1 'own':51 'rather':48 'requir':7 'resourc':9 'scale':23 'similar':40 'social':37 'societ':22 'societi':43 'unlimit':8"
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          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 190429
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 191002
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    -id: 18115
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
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     …2
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  +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
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    "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
    "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
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91 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
        -bodyTs: "'arbitrari':4 'capit':15 'capitalist':21 'chain':6 'control':19,35 'depict':8 'economi':33 'everyon':37 'follow':2 'form':10 'fraction':26 'logic':5 'market':17 'minor':25 'one':9 'popul':29 'repres':23 'social':12,31 'yes':13"
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:33:33.0 +01:00
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      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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        -id: 180771
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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        -id: 180838
        -bodyTs: "'autom':11,13 'capit':7 'direct':25 'ensur':35 'eventu':5,16 'goe':38 'great':3 'import':33 'increas':12 'job':20 'learn':42 'loss':21 'mass':19 'mistak':52 'necessari':6 'outlast':10 'past':47 'product':14 'repeat':50 'result':17 'societi':27 'stagnat':23 'transit':37,44 'unless':24 'well':39 'whole':30"
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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        -id: 181161
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
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        -bodyTs: "'addit':51 'came':38 'capit':1,31,42 'cours':50 'declin':4 'fact':53 'factor':19 'factori':37 'go':29 'industri':24 'm':45 'misunderstand':46 'necessit':61 'never':26 'one':55 'point':48 'predict':56,64 'product':6 'rather':32 'respect':16 'rise':35,40 'roof':10 'seen':27 'sens':22 'stagnat':14 'though':5 'undeni':3 'unless':43 'wage':12 'wrong':58,66"
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181173
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1405 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 181175
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181175
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 181250
        -bodyTs: "'also':3 'backbon':9 'benign':28 'broad':21,39 'capit':18,35 'democraci':17 'evil':25 'germani':13 'histori':31 'incred':20 'isn':41 'maoism':49 'modern':15 'nazi':12 'reli':33 'similar':37 'social':16,36 'stalin':47 'state':29 'synonym':45 'worst':5"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181250
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 182421
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2129 …}
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        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
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      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2060 …}
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184617
        -bodyTs: "'affirm':57 'also':79 'apolog':162 'argu':4 'belief':175 'believ':68,80 'better':135 'capit':6,47 'capitalist':99,126,136 'chip':124 'choos':39 'claim':167 'comparison':96 'compet':44 'concept':37,107 'control':16,23,53,59,72,100 'decentr':109 'deliber':144 'democrat':15,111 'dictatori':22,71 'direct':91 'either':84,127 'exist':87 'favor':20,115 'flaw':147 'glove':155 'good':118,129 'growth':82 'hand':62 'highest':43 'highlight':145 'hold':173 'idea':13 'input':138 'kid':154 'logic':169 'men':119 'meritocraci':29 'must':10,78 'mystic':36 'necess':171 'non':86 'non-exist':85 'ownership':33 'pale':94 'peopl':130 'pretend':31 'product':101,113 'productuon':18 'put':121,152 'reject':11,50,105 'replac':133 'similar':66 'social':8 'theori':120 'therefor':102 'think':150 'thus':55 'typic':77 'ultim':46 'whitewash':26 'without':137,151 'won':160 'worker':52,90,141 'worth':74 'yes':157"
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6843490"
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        +"title": 184658
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 187261
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108}
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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        -id: 190429
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
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     …2
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  +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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Show voter details
92 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
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      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
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      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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        -id: 180771
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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        -id: 180838
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
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        -id: 180921
        -bodyTs: "'capit':24 'continu':22 'differ':9 'good':13 'look':7 'mani':12 'may':6 'much':2 'none':16 'outcom':14 'pretti':1 'star':4 'though':3 'trek':5 'wild':8"
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180921
      }
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181161
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'addit':51 'came':38 'capit':1,31,42 'cours':50 'declin':4 'fact':53 'factor':19 'factori':37 'go':29 'industri':24 'm':45 'misunderstand':46 'necessit':61 'never':26 'one':55 'point':48 'predict':56,64 'product':6 'rather':32 'respect':16 'rise':35,40 'roof':10 'seen':27 'sens':22 'stagnat':14 'though':5 'undeni':3 'unless':43 'wage':12 'wrong':58,66"
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181173
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1405 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181175
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 181250
        -bodyTs: "'also':3 'backbon':9 'benign':28 'broad':21,39 'capit':18,35 'democraci':17 'evil':25 'germani':13 'histori':31 'incred':20 'isn':41 'maoism':49 'modern':15 'nazi':12 'reli':33 'similar':37 'social':16,36 'stalin':47 'state':29 'synonym':45 'worst':5"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181250
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
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        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 182421
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
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        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6820007"
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
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        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701435846 {#2324
          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2068 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184658
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        }
        +"title": 184658
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108}
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 190429
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':35 'autom':11 'chore':18 'collect':47 'communism':32 'definit':25 'doesn':5 'except':44 'futurist':27 'get':13 'goal':28 'howev':19 'individu':50 'industri':45 'like':3 'modern':42 'nope':1 'own':51 'rather':48 'requir':7 'resourc':9 'scale':23 'similar':40 'social':37 'societ':22 'societi':43 'unlimit':8"
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          date: 2023-12-03 02:40:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 190429
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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        -id: 191002
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    ]
    -id: 18115
    -titleTs: "'balmer':2 'quot':3 'steve':1"
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
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  +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
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    "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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  +"title": 188584
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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93 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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94 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
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      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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          "@Neon@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 180620
        -bodyTs: "'arbitrari':4 'capit':15 'capitalist':21 'chain':6 'control':19,35 'depict':8 'economi':33 'everyon':37 'follow':2 'form':10 'fraction':26 'logic':5 'market':17 'minor':25 'one':9 'popul':29 'repres':23 'social':12,31 'yes':13"
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:33:33.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 180620
      }
      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:43:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180639
      }
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 180771
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        +"title": 180771
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 180838
        -bodyTs: "'autom':11,13 'capit':7 'direct':25 'ensur':35 'eventu':5,16 'goe':38 'great':3 'import':33 'increas':12 'job':20 'learn':42 'loss':21 'mass':19 'mistak':52 'necessari':6 'outlast':10 'past':47 'product':14 'repeat':50 'result':17 'societi':27 'stagnat':23 'transit':37,44 'unless':24 'well':39 'whole':30"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:58:18.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180838
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
          "@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works"
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        -id: 180921
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 180921
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 181161
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 181161
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 181173
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 181175
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 181175
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
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        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
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        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
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          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 182444
        -bodyTs: "'30s':53 'actual':187 'agricultur':60 'anyth':178 'argu':177 'assum':118 'bad':175 'basket':65 'botch':57 'bread':64 'butcher':112 'cannot':153 'capit':93,94 'care':188 'civil':46 'clear':183 'coher':179 'collect':125 'collectiv':58 'combat':76 'compar':5 'complet':34,111 'continu':3 'control':122,126,133 'countri':19 'decentr':83 'definit':114,191 'develop':8,18 'disingenu':35 'enforc':148 'even':164 'everi':29 'exampl':166 'exist':105 'famin':50 'firm':85 'found':44 'frustrat':174 'fulli':7 'go':108 'graph':37 'horribl':56 'ideal':88 'ie':149 'incompat':91 'invad':66 'major':74 'mean':120,129 'mere':135 'monopoli':144 'nazi':79 'never':11 'one':136 'oppos':27 'otherwis':101 'path':137 'power':100 'privat':140,155 'product':131 'proper':190 'properti':141,156 'prove':167 'rather':123 're':2,173 'requir':95,142 'rest':21 'skin':13 'social':116,139 'socialist':87 'state':121,132,151,163 'steadi':82 'step':30 'still':33 'superpow':9 'threat':158 'took':71 'tri':25 'ussr':42 'via':161 'violenc':146,160 'volatil':39 'war':47 'without':157 'worker':97 'world':24 'wouldn':103 'wwii':15,68"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701385345 {#2130
          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182444
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 182450
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701385499 {#2349
          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184617
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2068 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2072 …}
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184658
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2111 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 188584
        -bodyTs: "'becom':32 'come':18 'develop':20 'distribut':22 'everyth':5 'free':7 'get':4 'handl':24 'high':12 'longer':36 'necessari':37 'peopl':1 'practic':16 'product':9 'socialist':27 'state':28 'typic':29 'vestigi':33"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701515310 {#2105
          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 188584
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115}
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2224 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 191002
        -bodyTs: "'achiev':45 'answer':12 'communism':35 'communist':42 'first':47 'focus':43 'global':7 'happen':4 'incent':26 'isn':19 'know':33 'like':38 'look':37 'marx':29 'must':36 'never':30 'numer':11 'pretend':31 'question':15 'read':27 'remov':24 'scale':8 'simpl':22 'social':46 'theori':28 'transit':53 'well':52"
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        }
        +"title": 191002
      }
    ]
    -id: 18115
    -titleTs: "'balmer':2 'quot':3 'steve':1"
    -bodyTs: null
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    +apId: "https://infosec.pub/post/5461452"
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2113 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
  +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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    "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
    "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
    "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
  ]
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  -id: 190429
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  }
  +"title": 190429
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
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Show voter details
95 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
  +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3174 …}
    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
    +url: "https://infosec.pub/pictrs/image/32c79e75-7296-4275-9f35-6cfa1a74709c.webp"
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    +type: "link"
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    +children: [
      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1679 …}
        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Neon@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 180620
        -bodyTs: "'arbitrari':4 'capit':15 'capitalist':21 'chain':6 'control':19,35 'depict':8 'economi':33 'everyon':37 'follow':2 'form':10 'fraction':26 'logic':5 'market':17 'minor':25 'one':9 'popul':29 'repres':23 'social':12,31 'yes':13"
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:33:33.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180620
      }
      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:43:12.0 +01:00
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      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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        -id: 180838
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      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
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          "@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works"
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      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
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        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
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          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 182444
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
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        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
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        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 187261
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        +ranking: 0
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
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        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 188584
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        +"title": 188584
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115}
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 191002
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    ]
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
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  +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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    "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
    "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
    "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
  ]
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  -id: 190429
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96 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:33:33.0 +01:00
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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        -id: 180771
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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        -id: 180838
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
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        -id: 180921
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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        -id: 181161
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      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181175
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2018 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2025 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2013 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2035 …}
        -id: 181250
        -bodyTs: "'also':3 'backbon':9 'benign':28 'broad':21,39 'capit':18,35 'democraci':17 'evil':25 'germani':13 'histori':31 'incred':20 'isn':41 'maoism':49 'modern':15 'nazi':12 'reli':33 'similar':37 'social':16,36 'stalin':47 'state':29 'synonym':45 'worst':5"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701360171 {#2024
          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181250
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2075 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1701375225 {#2036
          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2061 …}
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6814971"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701375225 {#2037
          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2080 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2064 …}
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        -id: 182421
        -bodyTs: "'absurd':36 'actual':33 'caus':18 'claim':37 'collabor':52 'decentr':51 'democrat':54 'evil':22 'foss':60 'guest':29 'idea':49 'lemmi':64 'love':47,59 'mystic':15 'peopl':19 'person':45 'plan':4 'properti':16 'prove':10 'rather':65 'realiti':6,39 'reddit':67 'share':25 'theori':1 'though':40 'tie':34 'tool':12 'turn':21 'won':43"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6819730"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701384960 {#2098
          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2129 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1527 …}
        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
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        -id: 182444
        -bodyTs: "'30s':53 'actual':187 'agricultur':60 'anyth':178 'argu':177 'assum':118 'bad':175 'basket':65 'botch':57 'bread':64 'butcher':112 'cannot':153 'capit':93,94 'care':188 'civil':46 'clear':183 'coher':179 'collect':125 'collectiv':58 'combat':76 'compar':5 'complet':34,111 'continu':3 'control':122,126,133 'countri':19 'decentr':83 'definit':114,191 'develop':8,18 'disingenu':35 'enforc':148 'even':164 'everi':29 'exampl':166 'exist':105 'famin':50 'firm':85 'found':44 'frustrat':174 'fulli':7 'go':108 'graph':37 'horribl':56 'ideal':88 'ie':149 'incompat':91 'invad':66 'major':74 'mean':120,129 'mere':135 'monopoli':144 'nazi':79 'never':11 'one':136 'oppos':27 'otherwis':101 'path':137 'power':100 'privat':140,155 'product':131 'proper':190 'properti':141,156 'prove':167 'rather':123 're':2,173 'requir':95,142 'rest':21 'skin':13 'social':116,139 'socialist':87 'state':121,132,151,163 'steadi':82 'step':30 'still':33 'superpow':9 'threat':158 'took':71 'tri':25 'ussr':42 'via':161 'violenc':146,160 'volatil':39 'war':47 'without':157 'worker':97 'world':24 'wouldn':103 'wwii':15,68"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701385345 {#2130
          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182444
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2060 …}
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        -id: 182450
        -bodyTs: "'1900s':13 'acknowledg':53 'capit':4,18 'countri':6 'decentr':57 'decid':38 'democraci':55 'develop':1,8 'everyth':49 'favor':20 'form':23 'get':31 'good':59 'group':35 'one':16,46 'own':48 'ownership':44 'peopl':30,37 'person':47 'reject':17 'richer':32 'right':42 'social':25 'think':28"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6820007"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701385499 {#2349
          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184617
        -bodyTs: "'affirm':57 'also':79 'apolog':162 'argu':4 'belief':175 'believ':68,80 'better':135 'capit':6,47 'capitalist':99,126,136 'chip':124 'choos':39 'claim':167 'comparison':96 'compet':44 'concept':37,107 'control':16,23,53,59,72,100 'decentr':109 'deliber':144 'democrat':15,111 'dictatori':22,71 'direct':91 'either':84,127 'exist':87 'favor':20,115 'flaw':147 'glove':155 'good':118,129 'growth':82 'hand':62 'highest':43 'highlight':145 'hold':173 'idea':13 'input':138 'kid':154 'logic':169 'men':119 'meritocraci':29 'must':10,78 'mystic':36 'necess':171 'non':86 'non-exist':85 'ownership':33 'pale':94 'peopl':130 'pretend':31 'product':101,113 'productuon':18 'put':121,152 'reject':11,50,105 'replac':133 'similar':66 'social':8 'theori':120 'therefor':102 'think':150 'thus':55 'typic':77 'ultim':46 'whitewash':26 'without':137,151 'won':160 'worker':52,90,141 'worth':74 'yes':157"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6843092"
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2068 …}
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        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 3
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2072 …}
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6843490"
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184658
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6867153"
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2111 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2101 …}
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        -id: 188584
        -bodyTs: "'becom':32 'come':18 'develop':20 'distribut':22 'everyth':5 'free':7 'get':4 'handl':24 'high':12 'longer':36 'necessari':37 'peopl':1 'practic':16 'product':9 'socialist':27 'state':28 'typic':29 'vestigi':33"
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 188584
      }
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        +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
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     …2
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  +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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}
 
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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        -id: 180838
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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        -id: 181161
        -bodyTs: "'answer':31 'attempt':44 'claim':9,21,37 'communism':46,54 'doesn':29 'exist':43 'initi':8,33 'invari':24 'issu':66 'lead':25 'question':34 'rather':52 'regardless':18 'shit':27 'theori':5 'think':16,50,59 'though':6 'truli':39 'unpleas':14,48,57 'word':68"
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181161
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181173
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181175
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 181250
        -bodyTs: "'also':3 'backbon':9 'benign':28 'broad':21,39 'capit':18,35 'democraci':17 'evil':25 'germani':13 'histori':31 'incred':20 'isn':41 'maoism':49 'modern':15 'nazi':12 'reli':33 'similar':37 'social':16,36 'stalin':47 'state':29 'synonym':45 'worst':5"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181250
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 182421
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182444
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
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        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
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        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'affirm':57 'also':79 'apolog':162 'argu':4 'belief':175 'believ':68,80 'better':135 'capit':6,47 'capitalist':99,126,136 'chip':124 'choos':39 'claim':167 'comparison':96 'compet':44 'concept':37,107 'control':16,23,53,59,72,100 'decentr':109 'deliber':144 'democrat':15,111 'dictatori':22,71 'direct':91 'either':84,127 'exist':87 'favor':20,115 'flaw':147 'glove':155 'good':118,129 'growth':82 'hand':62 'highest':43 'highlight':145 'hold':173 'idea':13 'input':138 'kid':154 'logic':169 'men':119 'meritocraci':29 'must':10,78 'mystic':36 'necess':171 'non':86 'non-exist':85 'ownership':33 'pale':94 'peopl':130 'pretend':31 'product':101,113 'productuon':18 'put':121,152 'reject':11,50,105 'replac':133 'similar':66 'social':8 'theori':120 'therefor':102 'think':150 'thus':55 'typic':77 'ultim':46 'whitewash':26 'without':137,151 'won':160 'worker':52,90,141 'worth':74 'yes':157"
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184658
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
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          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 187261
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
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        -id: 188584
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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        -id: 190429
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215}
    ]
    -id: 18115
    -titleTs: "'balmer':2 'quot':3 'steve':1"
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
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     …2
  }
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  +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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  +"title": 191002
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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99 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
  +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
    +url: "https://infosec.pub/pictrs/image/32c79e75-7296-4275-9f35-6cfa1a74709c.webp"
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      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
        -bodyTs: "'arbitrari':4 'capit':15 'capitalist':21 'chain':6 'control':19,35 'depict':8 'economi':33 'everyon':37 'follow':2 'form':10 'fraction':26 'logic':5 'market':17 'minor':25 'one':9 'popul':29 'repres':23 'social':12,31 'yes':13"
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        +"title": 180620
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      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
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        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 180771
        -bodyTs: "'anoth':31 'classless':10 'communism':21,47 'ever':16 'genuin':2 'great':23 'heard':17,45 'imagin':6 'moneyless':11 'never':43 'peopl':18 'practic':36 'reason':29 'say':19 'societi':12 'sound':22 'stateless':9 'support':38 'theori':25,52 'unpleas':4,50 've':14,42 'work':34"
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      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
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          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 180838
        -bodyTs: "'autom':11,13 'capit':7 'direct':25 'ensur':35 'eventu':5,16 'goe':38 'great':3 'import':33 'increas':12 'job':20 'learn':42 'loss':21 'mass':19 'mistak':52 'necessari':6 'outlast':10 'past':47 'product':14 'repeat':50 'result':17 'societi':27 'stagnat':23 'transit':37,44 'unless':24 'well':39 'whole':30"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:58:18.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180838
      }
      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
          "@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 180921
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180921
      }
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 181161
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181161
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 181173
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 181175
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
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          date: 2023-11-30 17:02:51.0 +01:00
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      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 181956
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
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      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
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        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
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        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
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        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
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        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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        +"title": 184617
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
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        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
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        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
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        -id: 187261
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
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        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
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        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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    ]
    -id: 18115
    -titleTs: "'balmer':2 'quot':3 'steve':1"
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
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  +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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  +"title": 191002
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
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Show voter details
100 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215
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    +slug: "Steve-Balmer-quotes"
    +title: "Steve Balmer quotes"
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      18 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1696
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        +body: """
          You followed an arbitrary logical chain to depict one form of Socialism, yes.\n
          \n
          In Capitalism, the market is controlled by Capitalists, who represent a minor fraction of the population. In Socialism, the economy is controlled by everyone.
          """
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        -id: 180620
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        +"title": 180620
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      17 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1559
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        +body: """
          I wasn’t referring to 30s and 70s as time periods, but the actual life expectancies. LE dropped sharply during the formation of the USSR due to civil war and WWI, and during the 30s due to famine from collectivization. After collectivization and WWII, the USSR was food secure and LE jumped sharply, combined with free Healthcare and mass housing initiatives.\n
          \n
          Again, pre-USSR LE was far lower, and post-USSR there was another drop in LE until the last decade or so.\n
          \n
          The US has insane growth because it managed to dodge all of the damage of WWII and export Imperialism and control over the global economy as it solidified itself as the reigning superpower. The USSR was a developing country, nowhere near as developed, and had a far more active role in WWII. Not a fair comparison, IMO.\n
          \n
          The US has far worse housing problems even today than the USSR had. The USSR attempted to solve this problem, the US has not.\n
          \n
          People in the USSR had far more than they had under the Tsars, and the idea that those at the top were cartoonishly wealthy is false. They didn’t have luxury goods, but they had little issues with necessities.\n
          \n
          Holding ownership in common is the *only* way to have a Stateless society, Private Property Rights require a state while public property does not, as the community itself enforces this.\n
          \n
          All in all, I am **not** pro-USSR. I think the process of Democratic Centralism is highly flawed and not accountable to the Workers, as the Politburo sustained itself. I also think Stalin was a horrible thug, and tragedies like the Katyn Massacre should be learned from so as to never repeat them. *However,* it’s also important to acknowledge that many parts of the USSR *did* work, and as such we should equally learn from where they did succeed.\n
          \n
          My opinion is that decentralization is a fantastic thing, and is an excellent way to combat central control. However, this cannot be meaningfully achieved in a top-down system like Capitalism.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 13:43:12.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180639
      }
      16 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1613
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        +image: null
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "What, genuinely, is unpleasant to imagine about a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society? I’ve only ever heard people say that Communism sounds great in theory but for some reason or another can’t work in practice, or support for both. I’ve never once heard that Communism itself is unpleasant in theory."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 15
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:32:15.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 180771
        -bodyTs: "'anoth':31 'classless':10 'communism':21,47 'ever':16 'genuin':2 'great':23 'heard':17,45 'imagin':6 'moneyless':11 'never':43 'peopl':18 'practic':36 'reason':29 'say':19 'societi':12 'sound':22 'stateless':9 'support':38 'theori':25,52 'unpleas':4,50 've':14,42 'work':34"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:32:15.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180771
      }
      15 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1737 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Not just great, but eventually necessary. Capitalism can’t outlast automation, increasingly automated production will eventually result in mass job loss and stagnation unless directed by society as a whole. It’s important to ensure this transition goes well and we learn from transitions of the past to not repeat their mistakes."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:58:18.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 180838
        -bodyTs: "'autom':11,13 'capit':7 'direct':25 'ensur':35 'eventu':5,16 'goe':38 'great':3 'import':33 'increas':12 'job':20 'learn':42 'loss':21 'mass':19 'mistak':52 'necessari':6 'outlast':10 'past':47 'product':14 'repeat':50 'result':17 'societi':27 'stagnat':23 'transit':37,44 'unless':24 'well':39 'whole':30"
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          date: 2023-11-30 14:58:18.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180838
      }
      14 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "Pretty much, though Star Trek may look wildly different. There are many “good” outcomes, but none of them will be a continuation of Capitalism."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
          "@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 180921
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          date: 2023-11-30 15:29:48.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 180921
      }
      13 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2372
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        +body: """
          That’s not the theory, though. The initial claim was that it’s unpleasant to think about. Regardless of your claim that it “invariably leads to shit,” that doesn’t answer the initial question.\n
          \n
          If the claim should truly have been that *existing attempts at Communism are unpleasant to think about,* rather than “Communism itself is unpleasant to think about,” then it’s just an issue with wording.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2386 …}
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        -id: 181161
        -bodyTs: "'answer':31 'attempt':44 'claim':9,21,37 'communism':46,54 'doesn':29 'exist':43 'initi':8,33 'invari':24 'issu':66 'lead':25 'question':34 'rather':52 'regardless':18 'shit':27 'theori':5 'think':16,50,59 'though':6 'truli':39 'unpleas':14,48,57 'word':68"
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:39:11.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181161
      }
      12 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1874
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: """
          Capitalism is undeniably declining, though. Production is through the roof, but wages have stagnated with respect to that. Factorization in the sense of industrialization was never seen to go against Capitalism, rather, with the rise of factories came the rise in Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Unless I’m misunderstanding your point, of course.\n
          \n
          Additionally, the fact that one prediction was wrong does not necessitate that all predictions are wrong.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 181173
        -bodyTs: "'addit':51 'came':38 'capit':1,31,42 'cours':50 'declin':4 'fact':53 'factor':19 'factori':37 'go':29 'industri':24 'm':45 'misunderstand':46 'necessit':61 'never':26 'one':55 'point':48 'predict':56,64 'product':6 'rather':32 'respect':16 'rise':35,40 'roof':10 'seen':27 'sens':22 'stagnat':14 'though':5 'undeni':3 'unless':43 'wage':12 'wrong':58,66"
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:41:39.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 181173
      }
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1402
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
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        +body: "So then it’s a wording issue, though it’s more accurate to say that revolution itself invariably turns to shit."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 181175
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          date: 2023-11-30 16:42:36.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 181175
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2022
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        +body: """
          It’s also the worst. It was the backbone of both Nazi Germany, and modern Social Democracies. Capitalism is incredibly broad, both the most evil and most benign states in history have relied on Capitalism.\n
          \n
          Socialism similarly is broad, and isn’t at all synonymous with Stalinism or Maoism.
          """
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          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 181250
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        +"title": 181250
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2144
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        +body: """
          To be fair, the political compass is a vast oversimplification itself. For example, there cannot be an Anarchist Capitalism in any fashion, as Capitalism definitionally has a requirement for hierarchy to exist.\n
          \n
          It’s better to understand values and positions than try to place people on an imaginary grid.
          """
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          "@NickwithaC@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Bene7rddso@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 181956
        -bodyTs: "'anarchist':18 'better':35 'cannot':15 'capit':19,24 'compass':6 'definit':25 'exampl':13 'exist':32 'fair':3 'fashion':22 'grid':49 'hierarchi':30 'imaginari':48 'oversimplif':10 'peopl':45 'place':44 'polit':5 'posit':40 'requir':28 'tri':42 'understand':37 'valu':38 'vast':9"
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          date: 2023-11-30 21:13:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 181956
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2063
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        +body: """
          Theory is a plan for reality. If you can prove that tools have a mystical property that causes people to turn evil if they share them, be my guest. You can’t actually tie that absurd claim to reality though, so you won’t.\n
          \n
          Personally, I love the idea of decentralization, collaboration, and democratization, which is why I love FOSS and am on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
        ]
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        -id: 182421
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          date: 2023-11-30 23:56:00.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182421
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2133
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        +body: """
          You’re continuing to compare a fully developed superpower that never had skin in WWII with a developing country the rest of the world tried to oppose at every step, that’s still completely disingenuous. The graph was volatile because the USSR was founded in Civil War, had a famine in the 30s during the horribly botched collectivization of agriculture, then had their bread basket invaded during WWII while they took on the majority of combat against the Nazis. After that, steady!\n
          \n
          Decentralization is firmly a Socialist ideal, and is incompatible with Capitalism. Capitalism requires that workers have no power, otherwise it wouldn’t exist.\n
          \n
          You then go on to completely butcher the definitions of Socialism by assuming it means state control, rather than collective control, of the means of production. State control is merely one path of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Private Property requires a monopoly of violence to enforce, ie a state. You cannot have private property without threat of violence via a state, even your example proves this.\n
          \n
          All in all, you’re frustratingly bad at arguing anything coherent, and it’s clear you don’t actually care about proper definitions.
          """
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@mojo@lemm.ee"
          "@jaybone@lemmy.world"
          "@HardNut@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 182444
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:02:25.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182444
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2042
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2141 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Development did, not Capitalism. The countries that developed the most in the 1900s were the ones rejecting Capitalism in favor of some form of Socialism.\n
          \n
          Do you think that people get richer when a group of people decide they have no rights of ownership and one person owns everything, or do you acknowledge that democracy and decentralization are good?
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 182450
        -bodyTs: "'1900s':13 'acknowledg':53 'capit':4,18 'countri':6 'decentr':57 'decid':38 'democraci':55 'develop':1,8 'everyth':49 'favor':20 'form':23 'get':31 'good':59 'group':35 'one':16,46 'own':48 'ownership':44 'peopl':30,37 'person':47 'reject':17 'richer':32 'right':42 'social':25 'think':28"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701385499 {#2349
          date: 2023-12-01 00:04:59.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 182450
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2334 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          They are.\n
          \n
          To argue for Capitalism over Socialism, you *must* reject the idea of democratizing control of productuon in favor of dictatorial control. You can whitewash it into “meritocracy,” and pretend that ownership is a mystical concept that chooses those with the highest competency, but ultimately Capitalism is a rejection of Worker Control, and thus an affirmation of control in the hands of the few.\n
          \n
          Similarly, to believe that this dictatorial control is worth it, you typically must also believe that growth is either non-existant if the Workers direct it, or pales in comparison to when Capitalists control production.\n
          \n
          Therefore, you are rejecting the concepts of decentralization and democratization of production in favor of the “good men” theory, putting all your chips on Capitalists either being good people or being replaced by better Capitalists without input from the Workers.\n
          \n
          Did I deliberately highlight the flaws of your thinking without putting the kid gloves on? Yes, and I won’t apologize for it, as the claims are logically a *necessity* to hold your beliefs.
          """
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
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          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
          "@Retrograde@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 184617
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        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701435846 {#2324
          date: 2023-12-01 14:04:06.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184617
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2073
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2068 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: """
          Abolishing money is a very gradual process, not an immediate one. In lower stages, Labor Vouchers would be paid, and these represent an hour of labor. The difference is that labor Vouchers are destroyed upon first use.\n
          \n
          Secondly, difficult, unpleasant, or otherwise undesirable labor would either be paid at a higher ratio, or require less labor per week to make the same amount of labor Vouchers. Alternatively, these dirty jobs may require rotation, so nobody is stuck working them. There are many ways of handling this, with more proposals than you would expect.
          """
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2072 …}
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        -id: 184658
        -bodyTs: "'abolish':1 'altern':67 'amount':63 'destroy':34 'differ':28 'difficult':39 'dirti':69 'either':46 'expect':93 'first':36 'gradual':6 'handl':85 'higher':51 'hour':24 'immedi':10 'job':70 'labor':15,26,31,44,56,65 'less':55 'lower':13 'make':60 'mani':82 'may':71 'money':2 'nobodi':75 'one':11 'otherwis':42 'paid':19,48 'per':57 'process':7 'propos':89 'ratio':52 'repres':22 'requir':54,72 'rotat':73 'second':38 'stage':14 'stuck':77 'undesir':43 'unpleas':40 'upon':35 'use':37 'voucher':16,32,66 'way':83 'week':58 'work':78 'would':17,45,92"
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          date: 2023-12-01 14:25:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 184658
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2047
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Neither. It’s a replacement for money, based on hours worked. The difference between money and LVs are that LVs are destroyed upon first use, ie you create 4 hours of Value, then trade that for 4 different hours of Value."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 187261
        -bodyTs: "'4':29,37 'base':8 'creat':28 'destroy':22 'differ':13,38 'first':24 'hour':10,30,39 'ie':26 'lvs':17,20 'money':7,15 'neither':1 'replac':5 'trade':34 'upon':23 'use':25 'valu':32,41 'work':11"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-12-02 02:18:14.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 187261
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2108
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2111 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "People *don’t* get everything for free until productivity is so high that it’s practical, which comes from development. The distribution is handled by the Socialist State, typically, until it becomes vestigial and no longer necessary."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
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          "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 188584
        -bodyTs: "'becom':32 'come':18 'develop':20 'distribut':22 'everyth':5 'free':7 'get':4 'handl':24 'high':12 'longer':36 'necessari':37 'peopl':1 'practic':16 'product':9 'socialist':27 'state':28 'typic':29 'vestigi':33"
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          date: 2023-12-02 12:08:30.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 188584
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2115
        +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1571 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2113 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
        +body: "Nope, just like it doesn’t require unlimited resources and automation to get you to do your chores. However, at a societal scale, its definitely a futuristic goal, which is why Communism is only achievable after Socialism, which is similar to modern society except industry is collectively, rather than individually owned."
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          "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
          "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
          "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
          "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
          "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
        ]
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        -id: 190429
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        }
        +"title": 190429
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2215}
    ]
    -id: 18115
    -titleTs: "'balmer':2 'quot':3 'steve':1"
    -bodyTs: null
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      date: 2023-11-29 09:29:57.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1572 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2224 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596 …}
  +body: "It can only happen at a global scale. There are numerous answers to your question, but again, it isn’t as simple as removing all incentives. Read theory, Marx never pretends to know what Communism must look like, which is why Communists focus on achieving Socialism first, as we can very well transition to that now."
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    date: 2023-12-03 04:41:34.0 +01:00
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    "@0x4E4F@infosec.pub"
    "@crispy_kilt@feddit.de"
    "@fosforus@sopuli.xyz"
    "@Littleborat@feddit.de"
    "@BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world"
    "@Cowbee@lemm.ee"
  ]
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  -id: 191002
  -bodyTs: "'achiev':45 'answer':12 'communism':35 'communist':42 'first':47 'focus':43 'global':7 'happen':4 'incent':26 'isn':19 'know':33 'like':38 'look':37 'marx':29 'must':36 'never':30 'numer':11 'pretend':31 'question':15 'read':27 'remov':24 'scale':8 'simpl':22 'social':46 'theori':28 'transit':53 'well':52"
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  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701574894 {#2139
    date: 2023-12-03 04:41:34.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 191002
}
 
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"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
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102 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2452
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2913 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2457 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3200 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3202 …}
  +slug: "Political-Nuance-by-PervisTime"
  +title: ""Political Nuance" by PervisTime"
  +url: "https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/de0b172d-7401-4f02-9900-ca8e5b01a851.jpeg"
  +body: """
    - [www.extrafabulouscomics.com](https://www.extrafabulouscomics.com/)\n
    - [Patreon](https://www.patreon.com/ExtraFabulousComics)\n
    - [Xitter](https://twitter.com/PervisTime)
    """
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        "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
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   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
103 DENIED edit 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2452
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2913 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2457 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3200 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3202 …}
  +slug: "Political-Nuance-by-PervisTime"
  +title: ""Political Nuance" by PervisTime"
  +url: "https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/de0b172d-7401-4f02-9900-ca8e5b01a851.jpeg"
  +body: """
    - [www.extrafabulouscomics.com](https://www.extrafabulouscomics.com/)\n
    - [Patreon](https://www.patreon.com/ExtraFabulousComics)\n
    - [Xitter](https://twitter.com/PervisTime)
    """
  +type: "image"
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      +image: null
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   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
104 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2452
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  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2457 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3200 …}
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  +slug: "Political-Nuance-by-PervisTime"
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  +url: "https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/de0b172d-7401-4f02-9900-ca8e5b01a851.jpeg"
  +body: """
    - [www.extrafabulouscomics.com](https://www.extrafabulouscomics.com/)\n
    - [Patreon](https://www.patreon.com/ExtraFabulousComics)\n
    - [Xitter](https://twitter.com/PervisTime)
    """
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        "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
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  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701067441 {#3177
    date: 2023-11-27 07:44:01.0 +01:00
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   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
105 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
106 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2453
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  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2452
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2913 …}
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3200 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3202 …}
    +slug: "Political-Nuance-by-PervisTime"
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    +body: """
      - [www.extrafabulouscomics.com](https://www.extrafabulouscomics.com/)\n
      - [Patreon](https://www.patreon.com/ExtraFabulousComics)\n
      - [Xitter](https://twitter.com/PervisTime)
      """
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    +cross: false
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      date: 2023-11-27 07:44:01.0 +01:00
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     …2
  }
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
107 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2453
  +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2452
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2913 …}
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3200 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3202 …}
    +slug: "Political-Nuance-by-PervisTime"
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    +body: """
      - [www.extrafabulouscomics.com](https://www.extrafabulouscomics.com/)\n
      - [Patreon](https://www.patreon.com/ExtraFabulousComics)\n
      - [Xitter](https://twitter.com/PervisTime)
      """
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      date: 2023-11-27 07:44:01.0 +01:00
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     …2
  }
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  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2360 …}
  -id: 181139
  -bodyTs: "'decentr':1 'extremist':4 'fair':8 'posit':5"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6804604"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701358339 {#2460
    date: 2023-11-30 16:32:19.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 181139
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
108 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2453
  +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2452
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2913 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2457 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3200 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3202 …}
    +slug: "Political-Nuance-by-PervisTime"
    +title: ""Political Nuance" by PervisTime"
    +url: "https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/de0b172d-7401-4f02-9900-ca8e5b01a851.jpeg"
    +body: """
      - [www.extrafabulouscomics.com](https://www.extrafabulouscomics.com/)\n
      - [Patreon](https://www.patreon.com/ExtraFabulousComics)\n
      - [Xitter](https://twitter.com/PervisTime)
      """
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 64
    +favouriteCount: 957
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      date: 2023-12-02 08:46:33.0 +01:00
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3203 …}
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    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3209 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3211 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3213 …}
    +children: [
      App\Entity\EntryComment {#2453}
    ]
    -id: 17203
    -titleTs: "'nuanc':2 'pervistim':4 'polit':1"
    -bodyTs: "'/)':4 '/extrafabulouscomics)':8 '/pervistime)':12 'patreon':5 'twitter.com':11 'twitter.com/pervistime)':10 'www.extrafabulouscomics.com':1,3 'www.extrafabulouscomics.com/)':2 'www.patreon.com':7 'www.patreon.com/extrafabulouscomics)':6 'xitter':9"
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
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    +ranking: 1701153841
    +visibility: "visible             "
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701067441 {#3177
      date: 2023-11-27 07:44:01.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2457 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2454 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2455 …}
  +body: "Decentralization is an extremist position, to be fair."
  +lang: "en"
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    "@Blapoo@lemmy.ml"
    "@quackers@lemmy.blahaj.zone"
    "@Krauerking@lemy.lol"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2459 …}
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  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2360 …}
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  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701358339 {#2460
    date: 2023-11-30 16:32:19.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 181139
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
109 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
110 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1598
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3180 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1630 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3220 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3202 …}
  +slug: "Welcome-to-Capitalism"
  +title: "Welcome to Capitalism"
  +url: "https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/3b284e67-e8b0-4e79-8574-47fc904f481b.jpeg"
  +body: null
  +type: "image"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: true
  +commentCount: 37
  +favouriteCount: 756
  +score: 0
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  +lastActive: DateTime @1701449118 {#3215
    date: 2023-12-01 17:45:18.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3222 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3224 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3226 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3228 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3230 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3232 …}
  +children: [
    App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1598 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1630 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1629 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1628 …}
      +body: """
        Why does the market reward anti-consumer companies like Apppe, that use their dominant market share to intentionally sabotage their own products to make people buy more?\n
        \n
        For example, why does Apple fight against Right to Repair? Is it for the consumer, or is it for profit?\n
        \n
        The market isn’t supposed to select for the best products for consumers, but the most profit, period. That’s why medicine is marked up skyward, because customers cannot *not* buy medicine.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 3
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701351965 {#1711
        date: 2023-11-30 14:46:05.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@kismattic@lemmy.world"
        "@MxM111@kbin.social"
        "@PoliticalAgitator@lemm.ee"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1723 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1721 …}
      -id: 180795
      -bodyTs: "'anti':7 'anti-consum':6 'appl':33 'appp':11 'best':58 'buy':27,79 'cannot':77 'compani':9 'consum':8,43,61 'custom':76 'domin':15 'exampl':30 'fight':34 'intent':19 'isn':51 'like':10 'make':25 'mark':72 'market':4,16,50 'medicin':70,80 'peopl':26 'period':66 'product':23,59 'profit':48,65 'repair':38 'reward':5 'right':36 'sabotag':20 'select':55 'share':17 'skyward':74 'suppos':53 'use':13"
      +ranking: 0
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      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701351965 {#1616
        date: 2023-11-30 14:46:05.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 180795
    }
  ]
  -id: 18385
  -titleTs: "'capit':3 'welcom':1"
  -bodyTs: null
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1701392117
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.world/post/8944736"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701305717 {#3201
    date: 2023-11-30 01:55:17.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
111 DENIED edit 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1598
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3180 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1630 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3220 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3202 …}
  +slug: "Welcome-to-Capitalism"
  +title: "Welcome to Capitalism"
  +url: "https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/3b284e67-e8b0-4e79-8574-47fc904f481b.jpeg"
  +body: null
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  +hasEmbed: true
  +commentCount: 37
  +favouriteCount: 756
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
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  +lastActive: DateTime @1701449118 {#3215
    date: 2023-12-01 17:45:18.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3222 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3224 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3226 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3228 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3230 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3232 …}
  +children: [
    App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1598 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1630 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1629 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1628 …}
      +body: """
        Why does the market reward anti-consumer companies like Apppe, that use their dominant market share to intentionally sabotage their own products to make people buy more?\n
        \n
        For example, why does Apple fight against Right to Repair? Is it for the consumer, or is it for profit?\n
        \n
        The market isn’t supposed to select for the best products for consumers, but the most profit, period. That’s why medicine is marked up skyward, because customers cannot *not* buy medicine.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 3
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701351965 {#1711
        date: 2023-11-30 14:46:05.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@kismattic@lemmy.world"
        "@MxM111@kbin.social"
        "@PoliticalAgitator@lemm.ee"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1723 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1721 …}
      -id: 180795
      -bodyTs: "'anti':7 'anti-consum':6 'appl':33 'appp':11 'best':58 'buy':27,79 'cannot':77 'compani':9 'consum':8,43,61 'custom':76 'domin':15 'exampl':30 'fight':34 'intent':19 'isn':51 'like':10 'make':25 'mark':72 'market':4,16,50 'medicin':70,80 'peopl':26 'period':66 'product':23,59 'profit':48,65 'repair':38 'reward':5 'right':36 'sabotag':20 'select':55 'share':17 'skyward':74 'suppos':53 'use':13"
      +ranking: 0
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      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/6800320"
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701351965 {#1616
        date: 2023-11-30 14:46:05.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 180795
    }
  ]
  -id: 18385
  -titleTs: "'capit':3 'welcom':1"
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  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1701392117
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.world/post/8944736"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701305717 {#3201
    date: 2023-11-30 01:55:17.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
112 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1598
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3180 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1630 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3220 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3202 …}
  +slug: "Welcome-to-Capitalism"
  +title: "Welcome to Capitalism"
  +url: "https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/3b284e67-e8b0-4e79-8574-47fc904f481b.jpeg"
  +body: null
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  +hasEmbed: true
  +commentCount: 37
  +favouriteCount: 756
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701449118 {#3215
    date: 2023-12-01 17:45:18.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3222 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3224 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3226 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3228 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3230 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3232 …}
  +children: [
    App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611
      +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1598 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1630 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1629 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1628 …}
      +body: """
        Why does the market reward anti-consumer companies like Apppe, that use their dominant market share to intentionally sabotage their own products to make people buy more?\n
        \n
        For example, why does Apple fight against Right to Repair? Is it for the consumer, or is it for profit?\n
        \n
        The market isn’t supposed to select for the best products for consumers, but the most profit, period. That’s why medicine is marked up skyward, because customers cannot *not* buy medicine.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 3
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701351965 {#1711
        date: 2023-11-30 14:46:05.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
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      +mentions: [
        "@kismattic@lemmy.world"
        "@MxM111@kbin.social"
        "@PoliticalAgitator@lemm.ee"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1618 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1597 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1731 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1723 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1721 …}
      -id: 180795
      -bodyTs: "'anti':7 'anti-consum':6 'appl':33 'appp':11 'best':58 'buy':27,79 'cannot':77 'compani':9 'consum':8,43,61 'custom':76 'domin':15 'exampl':30 'fight':34 'intent':19 'isn':51 'like':10 'make':25 'mark':72 'market':4,16,50 'medicin':70,80 'peopl':26 'period':66 'product':23,59 'profit':48,65 'repair':38 'reward':5 'right':36 'sabotag':20 'select':55 'share':17 'skyward':74 'suppos':53 'use':13"
      +ranking: 0
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701351965 {#1616
        date: 2023-11-30 14:46:05.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 180795
    }
  ]
  -id: 18385
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  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1701392117
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.world/post/8944736"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701305717 {#3201
    date: 2023-11-30 01:55:17.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
113 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
114 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611
  +user: App\Entity\User {#261 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1598
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3180 …}
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3220 …}
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    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3230 …}
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    -id: 18385
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      date: 2023-11-30 01:55:17.0 +01:00
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     …2
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  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1629 …}
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  +body: """
    Why does the market reward anti-consumer companies like Apppe, that use their dominant market share to intentionally sabotage their own products to make people buy more?\n
    \n
    For example, why does Apple fight against Right to Repair? Is it for the consumer, or is it for profit?\n
    \n
    The market isn’t supposed to select for the best products for consumers, but the most profit, period. That’s why medicine is marked up skyward, because customers cannot *not* buy medicine.
    """
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  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1626 …}
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  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701351965 {#1616
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  }
  +"title": 180795
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
115 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611
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     …2
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    Why does the market reward anti-consumer companies like Apppe, that use their dominant market share to intentionally sabotage their own products to make people buy more?\n
    \n
    For example, why does Apple fight against Right to Repair? Is it for the consumer, or is it for profit?\n
    \n
    The market isn’t supposed to select for the best products for consumers, but the most profit, period. That’s why medicine is marked up skyward, because customers cannot *not* buy medicine.
    """
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
116 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1611
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      date: 2023-11-30 01:55:17.0 +01:00
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     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    Why does the market reward anti-consumer companies like Apppe, that use their dominant market share to intentionally sabotage their own products to make people buy more?\n
    \n
    For example, why does Apple fight against Right to Repair? Is it for the consumer, or is it for profit?\n
    \n
    The market isn’t supposed to select for the best products for consumers, but the most profit, period. That’s why medicine is marked up skyward, because customers cannot *not* buy medicine.
    """
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    "@MxM111@kbin.social"
    "@PoliticalAgitator@lemm.ee"
  ]
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  -id: 180795
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
117 DENIED ROLE_ADMIN 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
118 DENIED ROLE_MODERATOR 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details