GET https://kbin.spritesserver.nl/index.php/m/asklemmy@lemmy.ml/comments?p=249

Response
200 OK
IP
216.73.216.97
Profiled on
Token
3b9d9c

Security

Token

There is no security token.

Firewall

main Name
Security enabled
Stateless

Configuration

Key Value
provider security.user.provider.concrete.app_user_provider
context main
entry_point App\Security\KbinAuthenticator
user_checker App\Security\UserChecker
access_denied_handler (none)
access_denied_url (none)
authenticators 
[
  "two_factor"
  "remember_me"
  "App\Security\KbinAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\FacebookAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\GoogleAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\GithubAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\KeycloakAuthenticator"
]

Listeners

Listener Duration Response 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ChannelListener {#723
  -map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …}
  -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …}
  -httpPort: 80
  -httpsPort: 443
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ContextListener {#706
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\TokenStorage {#1017 …}
  -sessionKey: "_security_main"
  -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …}
  -userProviders: Symfony\Component\DependencyInjection\Argument\RewindableGenerator {#705 …}
  -dispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …}
  -registered: false
  -trustResolver: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authentication\AuthenticationTrustResolver {#780 …}
  -sessionTrackerEnabler: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage::enableUsageTracking(): void {#703 …}
}
 5.62 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AuthenticatorManagerListener {#584
  -authenticatorManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Authentication\AuthenticatorManager {#595 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Http\Firewall\TwoFactorAccessListener {#582
  -twoFactorFirewallConfig: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\TwoFactor\TwoFactorFirewallConfig {#842 …}
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -twoFactorAccessDecider: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\TwoFactorAccessDecider {#581 …}
}
 0.05 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AccessListener {#579
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -accessDecisionManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\TraceableAccessDecisionManager {#937 …}
  -map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\LogoutListener {#786
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -options: [
    "csrf_parameter" => "_csrf_token"
    "csrf_token_id" => "logout"
    "logout_path" => "app_logout"
  ]
  -httpUtils: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\HttpUtils {#841 …}
  -csrfTokenManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Csrf\CsrfTokenManager {#1015 …}
  -eventDispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none)

Authenticators

No authenticators have been recorded. Check previous profiles on your authentication endpoint.

Access Decision

affirmative Strategy
# Voter class
1 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\AuthenticatedVoter"
2 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
3 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
4 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\ExpressionVoter"
5 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
6 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
7 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
8 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
9 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
10 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
11 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
12 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
13 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
14 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"

Access decision log

# Result Attributes Object
1 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
2 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1546
  +user: App\Entity\User {#1409 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1838 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 0
    +entryCount: 580
    +entryCommentCount: 15558
    +postCount: 7
    +postCommentCount: 129
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1689748304 {#314
      date: 2023-07-19 08:31:44.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#278 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#274 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#263 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#221 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#179 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#241 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#158 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#144 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#122 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#112 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#101 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#88 …}
    -id: 9
    +apId: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.ml/c/asklemmy"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/c/asklemmy"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/c/asklemmy/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.ml"
    +apPreferredUsername: "asklemmy"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1689747596 {#315
      date: 2023-07-19 08:19:56.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1686889707 {#309
      date: 2023-06-16 06:28:27.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
  +body: "OT, but… How did we get to lemmites and not lemmings?"
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 3
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1689169868 {#2429
    date: 2023-07-12 15:51:08.0 +02:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Fuckfuckmyfuckingass@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2427 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2446 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2483 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2466 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1378 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1635 …}
  -id: 13222
  -bodyTs: "'get':6 'lem':11 'lemmit':8 'ot':1"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://discuss.tchncs.de/comment/932120"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689169868 {#1394
    date: 2023-07-12 15:51:08.0 +02:00
  }
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
3 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1546
  +user: App\Entity\User {#1409 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1838 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 0
    +entryCount: 580
    +entryCommentCount: 15558
    +postCount: 7
    +postCommentCount: 129
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1689748304 {#314
      date: 2023-07-19 08:31:44.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#278 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#274 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#263 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#221 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#179 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#241 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#158 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#144 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#122 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#112 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#101 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#88 …}
    -id: 9
    +apId: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.ml/c/asklemmy"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/c/asklemmy"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/c/asklemmy/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.ml"
    +apPreferredUsername: "asklemmy"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1689747596 {#315
      date: 2023-07-19 08:19:56.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1686889707 {#309
      date: 2023-06-16 06:28:27.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
  +body: "OT, but… How did we get to lemmites and not lemmings?"
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 3
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1689169868 {#2429
    date: 2023-07-12 15:51:08.0 +02:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Fuckfuckmyfuckingass@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2427 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2446 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2483 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2466 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1378 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1635 …}
  -id: 13222
  -bodyTs: "'get':6 'lem':11 'lemmit':8 'ot':1"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://discuss.tchncs.de/comment/932120"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689169868 {#1394
    date: 2023-07-12 15:51:08.0 +02:00
  }
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
4 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1546
  +user: App\Entity\User {#1409 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1838 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 0
    +entryCount: 580
    +entryCommentCount: 15558
    +postCount: 7
    +postCommentCount: 129
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1689748304 {#314
      date: 2023-07-19 08:31:44.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#278 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#274 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#263 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#221 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#179 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#241 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#158 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#144 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#122 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#112 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#101 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#88 …}
    -id: 9
    +apId: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.ml/c/asklemmy"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/c/asklemmy"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/c/asklemmy/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.ml/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.ml"
    +apPreferredUsername: "asklemmy"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1689747596 {#315
      date: 2023-07-19 08:19:56.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1686889707 {#309
      date: 2023-06-16 06:28:27.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
  +body: "OT, but… How did we get to lemmites and not lemmings?"
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 3
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1689169868 {#2429
    date: 2023-07-12 15:51:08.0 +02:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Fuckfuckmyfuckingass@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2427 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2446 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2483 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2466 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1378 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1635 …}
  -id: 13222
  -bodyTs: "'get':6 'lem':11 'lemmit':8 'ot':1"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://discuss.tchncs.de/comment/932120"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689169868 {#1394
    date: 2023-07-12 15:51:08.0 +02:00
  }
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
5 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
6 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
  +user: App\Entity\User {#2447 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1838 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
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    it changes all the time but right now-\n
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    ginger root coco & clair clair mag.lo jonwayne sales
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
7 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
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  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
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      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
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      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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    it changes all the time but right now-\n
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    ginger root coco & clair clair mag.lo jonwayne sales
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
8 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718
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      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
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      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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    it changes all the time but right now-\n
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    ginger root coco & clair clair mag.lo jonwayne sales
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
9 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
10 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1382
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  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
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    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
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      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
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      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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  +body: "That title needs a lot of editing. It does end in a question mark, but it’s structured like a statement. Even if it is a question, it appears that your asking if it seems that way way to you. How is anyone else supposed to know how it seems to you?"
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
11 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1382
  +user: App\Entity\User {#2018 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1401 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
12 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1382
  +user: App\Entity\User {#2018 …}
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      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
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      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
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      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
13 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
14 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
  +user: App\Entity\User {#2333 …}
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  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
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      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
15 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
  +user: App\Entity\User {#2333 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2042 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
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      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
16 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349
  +user: App\Entity\User {#2333 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2042 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
17 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
18 DENIED moderate 
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      \n
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      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
19 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3246
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3247 …}
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  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
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    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
20 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3246
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3247 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2042 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
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    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
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      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
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      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
    +image: null
    +parent: null
    +root: null
    +body: "I still go to reddit as a resource when looking up stuff online, but I no longer browse reddit. The only subreddit I consistently go to is the small one I moderate, as it’s large enough I can’t simply convince each individual personally to move to the fediverse, but small enough that trying to convert would result in negligible numbers here."
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      date: 2023-07-12 15:29:27.0 +02:00
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  }
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2349}
  +body: "I go and browse the neovim subreddit still, from the web browser. Just to catch up on new plugins. But that’s it."
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
21 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
22 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2112
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      \n
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      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
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      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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    Thanks for this! I have been using iCloud Keychain for a while and was generally satisfied. However, it wasn’t until I recently switched from desktop Safari to Arc that I considered a third party password manager, but was stuck in decision paralysis.\n
    \n
    Given the overwhelming responses in this post, BitWarden it is!
    """
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
23 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2112
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      \n
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      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
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      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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    Thanks for this! I have been using iCloud Keychain for a while and was generally satisfied. However, it wasn’t until I recently switched from desktop Safari to Arc that I considered a third party password manager, but was stuck in decision paralysis.\n
    \n
    Given the overwhelming responses in this post, BitWarden it is!
    """
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
24 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2112
  +user: App\Entity\User {#2160 …}
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  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
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    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
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      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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  +image: null
  +parent: null
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    Thanks for this! I have been using iCloud Keychain for a while and was generally satisfied. However, it wasn’t until I recently switched from desktop Safari to Arc that I considered a third party password manager, but was stuck in decision paralysis.\n
    \n
    Given the overwhelming responses in this post, BitWarden it is!
    """
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    date: 2023-07-12 15:28:53.0 +02:00
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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Show voter details
25 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
26 DENIED moderate 
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      \n
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      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
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      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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    I’d say I used to listen to metal, but nowadays, I still listen to metal lol. Huge fan of Progressive Metal/Djent/Thall bands. Not much into Deathcore/Doom Metal lately however.\n
    \n
    At work tho, I tend to listen to a lot of instrumental stuff and genres vary greatly: mathrock, jazz, electronic, game/movie OSTs, blues, fusion, and among others.\n
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    During drives, mainly depends on the mood, but mostly revolves around the above given genres.\n
    \n
    To name a few artists, I usually listen to the below (in random order):\n
    \n
    - Jakub Zytecki\n
    - Chon\n
    - Plini\n
    - Periphery\n
    - Necrophagist (when r u guys coming back 😔)\n
    - Dirty Loops\n
    - Up Dharma Down\n
    - Joji\n
    - Tycho\n
    - Sleep Token\n
    - Lorna Shore\n
    - Tom Misch\n
    \n
    Would love to share some more, but these are what I thought of at the moment.
    """
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
27 DENIED edit 
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
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      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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  +body: """
    I’d say I used to listen to metal, but nowadays, I still listen to metal lol. Huge fan of Progressive Metal/Djent/Thall bands. Not much into Deathcore/Doom Metal lately however.\n
    \n
    At work tho, I tend to listen to a lot of instrumental stuff and genres vary greatly: mathrock, jazz, electronic, game/movie OSTs, blues, fusion, and among others.\n
    \n
    During drives, mainly depends on the mood, but mostly revolves around the above given genres.\n
    \n
    To name a few artists, I usually listen to the below (in random order):\n
    \n
    - Jakub Zytecki\n
    - Chon\n
    - Plini\n
    - Periphery\n
    - Necrophagist (when r u guys coming back 😔)\n
    - Dirty Loops\n
    - Up Dharma Down\n
    - Joji\n
    - Tycho\n
    - Sleep Token\n
    - Lorna Shore\n
    - Tom Misch\n
    \n
    Would love to share some more, but these are what I thought of at the moment.
    """
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
28 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2282
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      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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  +body: """
    I’d say I used to listen to metal, but nowadays, I still listen to metal lol. Huge fan of Progressive Metal/Djent/Thall bands. Not much into Deathcore/Doom Metal lately however.\n
    \n
    At work tho, I tend to listen to a lot of instrumental stuff and genres vary greatly: mathrock, jazz, electronic, game/movie OSTs, blues, fusion, and among others.\n
    \n
    During drives, mainly depends on the mood, but mostly revolves around the above given genres.\n
    \n
    To name a few artists, I usually listen to the below (in random order):\n
    \n
    - Jakub Zytecki\n
    - Chon\n
    - Plini\n
    - Periphery\n
    - Necrophagist (when r u guys coming back 😔)\n
    - Dirty Loops\n
    - Up Dharma Down\n
    - Joji\n
    - Tycho\n
    - Sleep Token\n
    - Lorna Shore\n
    - Tom Misch\n
    \n
    Would love to share some more, but these are what I thought of at the moment.
    """
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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Show voter details
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
30 DENIED moderate 
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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      I’d say I used to listen to metal, but nowadays, I still listen to metal lol. Huge fan of Progressive Metal/Djent/Thall bands. Not much into Deathcore/Doom Metal lately however.\n
      \n
      At work tho, I tend to listen to a lot of instrumental stuff and genres vary greatly: mathrock, jazz, electronic, game/movie OSTs, blues, fusion, and among others.\n
      \n
      During drives, mainly depends on the mood, but mostly revolves around the above given genres.\n
      \n
      To name a few artists, I usually listen to the below (in random order):\n
      \n
      - Jakub Zytecki\n
      - Chon\n
      - Plini\n
      - Periphery\n
      - Necrophagist (when r u guys coming back 😔)\n
      - Dirty Loops\n
      - Up Dharma Down\n
      - Joji\n
      - Tycho\n
      - Sleep Token\n
      - Lorna Shore\n
      - Tom Misch\n
      \n
      Would love to share some more, but these are what I thought of at the moment.
      """
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}
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
31 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3198
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3199 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1838 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
    +image: null
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    +root: null
    +body: """
      I’d say I used to listen to metal, but nowadays, I still listen to metal lol. Huge fan of Progressive Metal/Djent/Thall bands. Not much into Deathcore/Doom Metal lately however.\n
      \n
      At work tho, I tend to listen to a lot of instrumental stuff and genres vary greatly: mathrock, jazz, electronic, game/movie OSTs, blues, fusion, and among others.\n
      \n
      During drives, mainly depends on the mood, but mostly revolves around the above given genres.\n
      \n
      To name a few artists, I usually listen to the below (in random order):\n
      \n
      - Jakub Zytecki\n
      - Chon\n
      - Plini\n
      - Periphery\n
      - Necrophagist (when r u guys coming back 😔)\n
      - Dirty Loops\n
      - Up Dharma Down\n
      - Joji\n
      - Tycho\n
      - Sleep Token\n
      - Lorna Shore\n
      - Tom Misch\n
      \n
      Would love to share some more, but these are what I thought of at the moment.
      """
    +lang: "en"
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  +body: "Ever listen to the ocean?"
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}
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
32 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3198
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  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1838 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
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    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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      I’d say I used to listen to metal, but nowadays, I still listen to metal lol. Huge fan of Progressive Metal/Djent/Thall bands. Not much into Deathcore/Doom Metal lately however.\n
      \n
      At work tho, I tend to listen to a lot of instrumental stuff and genres vary greatly: mathrock, jazz, electronic, game/movie OSTs, blues, fusion, and among others.\n
      \n
      During drives, mainly depends on the mood, but mostly revolves around the above given genres.\n
      \n
      To name a few artists, I usually listen to the below (in random order):\n
      \n
      - Jakub Zytecki\n
      - Chon\n
      - Plini\n
      - Periphery\n
      - Necrophagist (when r u guys coming back 😔)\n
      - Dirty Loops\n
      - Up Dharma Down\n
      - Joji\n
      - Tycho\n
      - Sleep Token\n
      - Lorna Shore\n
      - Tom Misch\n
      \n
      Would love to share some more, but these are what I thought of at the moment.
      """
    +lang: "en"
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      date: 2023-07-12 15:25:54.0 +02:00
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
33 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
34 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3214
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  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1838 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
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    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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      \n
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      \n
      During drives, mainly depends on the mood, but mostly revolves around the above given genres.\n
      \n
      To name a few artists, I usually listen to the below (in random order):\n
      \n
      - Jakub Zytecki\n
      - Chon\n
      - Plini\n
      - Periphery\n
      - Necrophagist (when r u guys coming back 😔)\n
      - Dirty Loops\n
      - Up Dharma Down\n
      - Joji\n
      - Tycho\n
      - Sleep Token\n
      - Lorna Shore\n
      - Tom Misch\n
      \n
      Would love to share some more, but these are what I thought of at the moment.
      """
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2282}
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
35 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3214
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3215 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1838 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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    +image: null
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    +root: null
    +body: """
      I’d say I used to listen to metal, but nowadays, I still listen to metal lol. Huge fan of Progressive Metal/Djent/Thall bands. Not much into Deathcore/Doom Metal lately however.\n
      \n
      At work tho, I tend to listen to a lot of instrumental stuff and genres vary greatly: mathrock, jazz, electronic, game/movie OSTs, blues, fusion, and among others.\n
      \n
      During drives, mainly depends on the mood, but mostly revolves around the above given genres.\n
      \n
      To name a few artists, I usually listen to the below (in random order):\n
      \n
      - Jakub Zytecki\n
      - Chon\n
      - Plini\n
      - Periphery\n
      - Necrophagist (when r u guys coming back 😔)\n
      - Dirty Loops\n
      - Up Dharma Down\n
      - Joji\n
      - Tycho\n
      - Sleep Token\n
      - Lorna Shore\n
      - Tom Misch\n
      \n
      Would love to share some more, but these are what I thought of at the moment.
      """
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  }
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2282}
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  +lang: "en"
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}
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
36 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3214
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3215 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1838 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
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      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
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      - Chon\n
      - Plini\n
      - Periphery\n
      - Necrophagist (when r u guys coming back 😔)\n
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      - Up Dharma Down\n
      - Joji\n
      - Tycho\n
      - Sleep Token\n
      - Lorna Shore\n
      - Tom Misch\n
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      \n
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      \n
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      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
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      I’d say I used to listen to metal, but nowadays, I still listen to metal lol. Huge fan of Progressive Metal/Djent/Thall bands. Not much into Deathcore/Doom Metal lately however.\n
      \n
      At work tho, I tend to listen to a lot of instrumental stuff and genres vary greatly: mathrock, jazz, electronic, game/movie OSTs, blues, fusion, and among others.\n
      \n
      During drives, mainly depends on the mood, but mostly revolves around the above given genres.\n
      \n
      To name a few artists, I usually listen to the below (in random order):\n
      \n
      - Jakub Zytecki\n
      - Chon\n
      - Plini\n
      - Periphery\n
      - Necrophagist (when r u guys coming back 😔)\n
      - Dirty Loops\n
      - Up Dharma Down\n
      - Joji\n
      - Tycho\n
      - Sleep Token\n
      - Lorna Shore\n
      - Tom Misch\n
      \n
      Would love to share some more, but these are what I thought of at the moment.
      """
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  +body: "Woah, I’ve actually been to a Chon show. Totally didn’t expect to see that band pop up in this thread"
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      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
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      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
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      I’d say I used to listen to metal, but nowadays, I still listen to metal lol. Huge fan of Progressive Metal/Djent/Thall bands. Not much into Deathcore/Doom Metal lately however.\n
      \n
      At work tho, I tend to listen to a lot of instrumental stuff and genres vary greatly: mathrock, jazz, electronic, game/movie OSTs, blues, fusion, and among others.\n
      \n
      During drives, mainly depends on the mood, but mostly revolves around the above given genres.\n
      \n
      To name a few artists, I usually listen to the below (in random order):\n
      \n
      - Jakub Zytecki\n
      - Chon\n
      - Plini\n
      - Periphery\n
      - Necrophagist (when r u guys coming back 😔)\n
      - Dirty Loops\n
      - Up Dharma Down\n
      - Joji\n
      - Tycho\n
      - Sleep Token\n
      - Lorna Shore\n
      - Tom Misch\n
      \n
      Would love to share some more, but these are what I thought of at the moment.
      """
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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40 DENIED moderate 
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
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      \n
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      \n
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      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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      \n
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      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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      - Up Dharma Down\n
      - Joji\n
      - Tycho\n
      - Sleep Token\n
      - Lorna Shore\n
      - Tom Misch\n
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      """
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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Show voter details
41 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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Show voter details
42 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3333
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    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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      +image: null
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        I’d say I used to listen to metal, but nowadays, I still listen to metal lol. Huge fan of Progressive Metal/Djent/Thall bands. Not much into Deathcore/Doom Metal lately however.\n
        \n
        At work tho, I tend to listen to a lot of instrumental stuff and genres vary greatly: mathrock, jazz, electronic, game/movie OSTs, blues, fusion, and among others.\n
        \n
        During drives, mainly depends on the mood, but mostly revolves around the above given genres.\n
        \n
        To name a few artists, I usually listen to the below (in random order):\n
        \n
        - Jakub Zytecki\n
        - Chon\n
        - Plini\n
        - Periphery\n
        - Necrophagist (when r u guys coming back 😔)\n
        - Dirty Loops\n
        - Up Dharma Down\n
        - Joji\n
        - Tycho\n
        - Sleep Token\n
        - Lorna Shore\n
        - Tom Misch\n
        \n
        Would love to share some more, but these are what I thought of at the moment.
        """
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    +body: "Woah, I’ve actually been to a Chon show. Totally didn’t expect to see that band pop up in this thread"
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2282}
  +body: "Lucky! How were they upfront? I’ve only seen their live shows on YouTube."
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
43 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3333
  +user: App\Entity\User {#2196 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1838 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3231 …}
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    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
    +image: null
    +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2282
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      +image: null
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        I’d say I used to listen to metal, but nowadays, I still listen to metal lol. Huge fan of Progressive Metal/Djent/Thall bands. Not much into Deathcore/Doom Metal lately however.\n
        \n
        At work tho, I tend to listen to a lot of instrumental stuff and genres vary greatly: mathrock, jazz, electronic, game/movie OSTs, blues, fusion, and among others.\n
        \n
        During drives, mainly depends on the mood, but mostly revolves around the above given genres.\n
        \n
        To name a few artists, I usually listen to the below (in random order):\n
        \n
        - Jakub Zytecki\n
        - Chon\n
        - Plini\n
        - Periphery\n
        - Necrophagist (when r u guys coming back 😔)\n
        - Dirty Loops\n
        - Up Dharma Down\n
        - Joji\n
        - Tycho\n
        - Sleep Token\n
        - Lorna Shore\n
        - Tom Misch\n
        \n
        Would love to share some more, but these are what I thought of at the moment.
        """
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689168354 {#2295
        date: 2023-07-12 15:25:54.0 +02:00
      }
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2282}
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    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689180131 {#3229
      date: 2023-07-12 18:42:11.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2282}
  +body: "Lucky! How were they upfront? I’ve only seen their live shows on YouTube."
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
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    "@Poeticbiscuit@lemmy.world"
    "@JimmyDean@lemm.ee"
  ]
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  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689185842 {#3332
    date: 2023-07-12 20:17:22.0 +02:00
  }
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
44 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3333
  +user: App\Entity\User {#2196 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1838 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
    +rules: null
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      date: 2023-06-16 06:28:27.0 +02:00
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  +image: null
  +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#3230
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3231 …}
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1838 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
    +image: null
    +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2282
      +user: App\Entity\User {#2196 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1838 …}
      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
      +image: null
      +parent: null
      +root: null
      +body: """
        I’d say I used to listen to metal, but nowadays, I still listen to metal lol. Huge fan of Progressive Metal/Djent/Thall bands. Not much into Deathcore/Doom Metal lately however.\n
        \n
        At work tho, I tend to listen to a lot of instrumental stuff and genres vary greatly: mathrock, jazz, electronic, game/movie OSTs, blues, fusion, and among others.\n
        \n
        During drives, mainly depends on the mood, but mostly revolves around the above given genres.\n
        \n
        To name a few artists, I usually listen to the below (in random order):\n
        \n
        - Jakub Zytecki\n
        - Chon\n
        - Plini\n
        - Periphery\n
        - Necrophagist (when r u guys coming back 😔)\n
        - Dirty Loops\n
        - Up Dharma Down\n
        - Joji\n
        - Tycho\n
        - Sleep Token\n
        - Lorna Shore\n
        - Tom Misch\n
        \n
        Would love to share some more, but these are what I thought of at the moment.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
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        date: 2023-07-13 07:46:39.0 +02:00
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        "@Fuckfuckmyfuckingass@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2278 …}
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      +ranking: 0
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689168354 {#2295
        date: 2023-07-12 15:25:54.0 +02:00
      }
    }
    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2282}
    +body: "Woah, I’ve actually been to a Chon show. Totally didn’t expect to see that band pop up in this thread"
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
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      "@Fuckfuckmyfuckingass@lemmy.world"
      "@Poeticbiscuit@lemmy.world"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3232 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3234 …}
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    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3240 …}
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    -id: 13486
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    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689180131 {#3229
      date: 2023-07-12 18:42:11.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2282}
  +body: "Lucky! How were they upfront? I’ve only seen their live shows on YouTube."
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 1
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
45 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
46 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3466
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  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1838 …}
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    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
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    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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          I’d say I used to listen to metal, but nowadays, I still listen to metal lol. Huge fan of Progressive Metal/Djent/Thall bands. Not much into Deathcore/Doom Metal lately however.\n
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          - Chon\n
          - Plini\n
          - Periphery\n
          - Necrophagist (when r u guys coming back 😔)\n
          - Dirty Loops\n
          - Up Dharma Down\n
          - Joji\n
          - Tycho\n
          - Sleep Token\n
          - Lorna Shore\n
          - Tom Misch\n
          \n
          Would love to share some more, but these are what I thought of at the moment.
          """
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Show voter details
47 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3466
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    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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          I’d say I used to listen to metal, but nowadays, I still listen to metal lol. Huge fan of Progressive Metal/Djent/Thall bands. Not much into Deathcore/Doom Metal lately however.\n
          \n
          At work tho, I tend to listen to a lot of instrumental stuff and genres vary greatly: mathrock, jazz, electronic, game/movie OSTs, blues, fusion, and among others.\n
          \n
          During drives, mainly depends on the mood, but mostly revolves around the above given genres.\n
          \n
          To name a few artists, I usually listen to the below (in random order):\n
          \n
          - Jakub Zytecki\n
          - Chon\n
          - Plini\n
          - Periphery\n
          - Necrophagist (when r u guys coming back 😔)\n
          - Dirty Loops\n
          - Up Dharma Down\n
          - Joji\n
          - Tycho\n
          - Sleep Token\n
          - Lorna Shore\n
          - Tom Misch\n
          \n
          Would love to share some more, but these are what I thought of at the moment.
          """
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Show voter details
48 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3466
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  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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        +body: """
          I’d say I used to listen to metal, but nowadays, I still listen to metal lol. Huge fan of Progressive Metal/Djent/Thall bands. Not much into Deathcore/Doom Metal lately however.\n
          \n
          At work tho, I tend to listen to a lot of instrumental stuff and genres vary greatly: mathrock, jazz, electronic, game/movie OSTs, blues, fusion, and among others.\n
          \n
          During drives, mainly depends on the mood, but mostly revolves around the above given genres.\n
          \n
          To name a few artists, I usually listen to the below (in random order):\n
          \n
          - Jakub Zytecki\n
          - Chon\n
          - Plini\n
          - Periphery\n
          - Necrophagist (when r u guys coming back 😔)\n
          - Dirty Loops\n
          - Up Dharma Down\n
          - Joji\n
          - Tycho\n
          - Sleep Token\n
          - Lorna Shore\n
          - Tom Misch\n
          \n
          Would love to share some more, but these are what I thought of at the moment.
          """
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      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2282}
      +body: "Woah, I’ve actually been to a Chon show. Totally didn’t expect to see that band pop up in this thread"
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2282}
    +body: "Lucky! How were they upfront? I’ve only seen their live shows on YouTube."
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2282}
  +body: "They were great. I think it was around 2015-2016, and I still have a *Chon* pin from the show too!"
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
49 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
50 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2285
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
51 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2285
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      \n
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      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
52 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2285
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      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
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  +body: "Arbys I HAVE TO BEAT MY MEAT"
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
53 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
54 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1982
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      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
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      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
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    Also keep in mind that they count those prisoners as part of the census, which affects how resources are distributed.\n
    \n
    So they’re counted, but don’t get a vote. Ripe for abuse by unscrupulous politicians.
    """
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
55 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1982
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  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
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      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
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      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
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      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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    Also keep in mind that they count those prisoners as part of the census, which affects how resources are distributed.\n
    \n
    So they’re counted, but don’t get a vote. Ripe for abuse by unscrupulous politicians.
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
56 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1982
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      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
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      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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    Also keep in mind that they count those prisoners as part of the census, which affects how resources are distributed.\n
    \n
    So they’re counted, but don’t get a vote. Ripe for abuse by unscrupulous politicians.
    """
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58 DENIED moderate 
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      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
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59 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3162
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      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
60 DENIED moderate 
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      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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61 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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62 DENIED moderate 
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63 DENIED edit 
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64 DENIED moderate 
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      \n
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      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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65 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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Show voter details
67 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3451
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      \n
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      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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        +image: null
        +parent: null
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          Also keep in mind that they count those prisoners as part of the census, which affects how resources are distributed.\n
          \n
          So they’re counted, but don’t get a vote. Ripe for abuse by unscrupulous politicians.
          """
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1982}
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
68 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3451
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3349 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1401 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
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    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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          Also keep in mind that they count those prisoners as part of the census, which affects how resources are distributed.\n
          \n
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          """
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
69 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
70 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3533
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  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
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    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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      +image: null
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            Also keep in mind that they count those prisoners as part of the census, which affects how resources are distributed.\n
            \n
            So they’re counted, but don’t get a vote. Ripe for abuse by unscrupulous politicians.
            """
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
71 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3533
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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    +image: null
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      +image: null
      +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#3162
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          +image: null
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          +body: """
            Also keep in mind that they count those prisoners as part of the census, which affects how resources are distributed.\n
            \n
            So they’re counted, but don’t get a vote. Ripe for abuse by unscrupulous politicians.
            """
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
72 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3533
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3163 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1401 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
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      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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            Also keep in mind that they count those prisoners as part of the census, which affects how resources are distributed.\n
            \n
            So they’re counted, but don’t get a vote. Ripe for abuse by unscrupulous politicians.
            """
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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Show voter details
73 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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74 DENIED moderate 
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    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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              Also keep in mind that they count those prisoners as part of the census, which affects how resources are distributed.\n
              \n
              So they’re counted, but don’t get a vote. Ripe for abuse by unscrupulous politicians.
              """
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
75 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3586
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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              Also keep in mind that they count those prisoners as part of the census, which affects how resources are distributed.\n
              \n
              So they’re counted, but don’t get a vote. Ripe for abuse by unscrupulous politicians.
              """
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
76 DENIED moderate 
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      \n
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      \n
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      \n
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      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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              Also keep in mind that they count those prisoners as part of the census, which affects how resources are distributed.\n
              \n
              So they’re counted, but don’t get a vote. Ripe for abuse by unscrupulous politicians.
              """
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  +body: "Hardy har."
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
77 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
78 DENIED moderate 
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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                Also keep in mind that they count those prisoners as part of the census, which affects how resources are distributed.\n
                \n
                So they’re counted, but don’t get a vote. Ripe for abuse by unscrupulous politicians.
                """
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        +body: "Small quibble here, but illegal immigrants are absolutely counted in the census, obviously they are under-counted, but they are intended to be counted. No one is “excluded” from the census."
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      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1982}
      +body: "Small quibble, but the census came up with about 331 million people, and there are almost 8 billion people on the planet. Clearly, some are excluded from the census."
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    Within my facetious response is a kernel of truth: some of those people within US borders are foreign tourists. Surely, a French high school class touring Washington DC shouldn’t be counted on the census.\n
    \n
    When someone overstays their visa, at what point do they stop being “foreign persons” and start being “undocumented Americans”? At what point is it reasonable to start counting them as our own?
    """
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
79 DENIED edit 
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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                Also keep in mind that they count those prisoners as part of the census, which affects how resources are distributed.\n
                \n
                So they’re counted, but don’t get a vote. Ripe for abuse by unscrupulous politicians.
                """
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            +body: "It’s almost like they shouldn’t be counted at all unless they are free to vote. But the states with significant prison populations wouldn’t go for that. Maybe we can compromise. Perhaps only 3 out of every 5 disenfranchised prisoners should count for representation purposes."
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        +body: "Small quibble here, but illegal immigrants are absolutely counted in the census, obviously they are under-counted, but they are intended to be counted. No one is “excluded” from the census."
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    Within my facetious response is a kernel of truth: some of those people within US borders are foreign tourists. Surely, a French high school class touring Washington DC shouldn’t be counted on the census.\n
    \n
    When someone overstays their visa, at what point do they stop being “foreign persons” and start being “undocumented Americans”? At what point is it reasonable to start counting them as our own?
    """
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}
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
80 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3623
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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                Also keep in mind that they count those prisoners as part of the census, which affects how resources are distributed.\n
                \n
                So they’re counted, but don’t get a vote. Ripe for abuse by unscrupulous politicians.
                """
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            +body: "It’s almost like they shouldn’t be counted at all unless they are free to vote. But the states with significant prison populations wouldn’t go for that. Maybe we can compromise. Perhaps only 3 out of every 5 disenfranchised prisoners should count for representation purposes."
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          +body: "You’d have to eliminate children and immigrants too if you did that, but those new numbers wouldn’t reflect reality in most communities with so many people being excluded from the census."
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        +body: "Small quibble here, but illegal immigrants are absolutely counted in the census, obviously they are under-counted, but they are intended to be counted. No one is “excluded” from the census."
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    +body: "Hardy har."
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    Within my facetious response is a kernel of truth: some of those people within US borders are foreign tourists. Surely, a French high school class touring Washington DC shouldn’t be counted on the census.\n
    \n
    When someone overstays their visa, at what point do they stop being “foreign persons” and start being “undocumented Americans”? At what point is it reasonable to start counting them as our own?
    """
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    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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            Also keep in mind that they count those prisoners as part of the census, which affects how resources are distributed.\n
            \n
            So they’re counted, but don’t get a vote. Ripe for abuse by unscrupulous politicians.
            """
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        +body: "It’s almost like they shouldn’t be counted at all unless they are free to vote. But the states with significant prison populations wouldn’t go for that. Maybe we can compromise. Perhaps only 3 out of every 5 disenfranchised prisoners should count for representation purposes."
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1982}
    +body: "Small quibble here, but illegal immigrants are absolutely counted in the census, obviously they are under-counted, but they are intended to be counted. No one is “excluded” from the census."
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
83 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3548
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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  +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#3451
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    +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#3274
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      +image: null
      +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#3162
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          +body: """
            Also keep in mind that they count those prisoners as part of the census, which affects how resources are distributed.\n
            \n
            So they’re counted, but don’t get a vote. Ripe for abuse by unscrupulous politicians.
            """
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        +body: "It’s almost like they shouldn’t be counted at all unless they are free to vote. But the states with significant prison populations wouldn’t go for that. Maybe we can compromise. Perhaps only 3 out of every 5 disenfranchised prisoners should count for representation purposes."
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
84 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3548
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  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
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    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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            Also keep in mind that they count those prisoners as part of the census, which affects how resources are distributed.\n
            \n
            So they’re counted, but don’t get a vote. Ripe for abuse by unscrupulous politicians.
            """
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        +body: "It’s almost like they shouldn’t be counted at all unless they are free to vote. But the states with significant prison populations wouldn’t go for that. Maybe we can compromise. Perhaps only 3 out of every 5 disenfranchised prisoners should count for representation purposes."
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    +body: "Small quibble here, but illegal immigrants are absolutely counted in the census, obviously they are under-counted, but they are intended to be counted. No one is “excluded” from the census."
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      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
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      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
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        Also keep in mind that they count those prisoners as part of the census, which affects how resources are distributed.\n
        \n
        So they’re counted, but don’t get a vote. Ripe for abuse by unscrupulous politicians.
        """
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    +body: "It’s almost like they shouldn’t be counted at all unless they are free to vote. But the states with significant prison populations wouldn’t go for that. Maybe we can compromise. Perhaps only 3 out of every 5 disenfranchised prisoners should count for representation purposes."
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    The only problem there is that the count also determines how federal money is distributed. Undocumented/illegal immigrants still use interstates and water mains and disaster money and national parks and federal buildings. Unless we want funding cut, we still have to count them.\n
    \n
    *Edit: I’m embarrassed that I got all that written before 3/5 hit me. “The only problem” 😬
    """
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87 DENIED edit 
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      \n
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      \n
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      \n
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      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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        Also keep in mind that they count those prisoners as part of the census, which affects how resources are distributed.\n
        \n
        So they’re counted, but don’t get a vote. Ripe for abuse by unscrupulous politicians.
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    The only problem there is that the count also determines how federal money is distributed. Undocumented/illegal immigrants still use interstates and water mains and disaster money and national parks and federal buildings. Unless we want funding cut, we still have to count them.\n
    \n
    *Edit: I’m embarrassed that I got all that written before 3/5 hit me. “The only problem” 😬
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
88 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3286
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      \n
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      \n
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      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
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        So they’re counted, but don’t get a vote. Ripe for abuse by unscrupulous politicians.
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    The only problem there is that the count also determines how federal money is distributed. Undocumented/illegal immigrants still use interstates and water mains and disaster money and national parks and federal buildings. Unless we want funding cut, we still have to count them.\n
    \n
    *Edit: I’m embarrassed that I got all that written before 3/5 hit me. “The only problem” 😬
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
89 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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90 DENIED moderate 
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      \n
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      \n
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      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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    Oh shit, I never even thought about that. It’s another level of insidious. 1. Be republican 2. Get a huge prison in your district “for the jobs”, 3. Get more positions guaranteed to be republican, since the voters in your district still are. Would work for a democrat too, they don’t care about criminal justice reform either :(\n
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    Might work slightly better for republicans because they can work the identity politics angle more easily.
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
91 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3182
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      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
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      Also keep in mind that they count those prisoners as part of the census, which affects how resources are distributed.\n
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      So they’re counted, but don’t get a vote. Ripe for abuse by unscrupulous politicians.
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    Oh shit, I never even thought about that. It’s another level of insidious. 1. Be republican 2. Get a huge prison in your district “for the jobs”, 3. Get more positions guaranteed to be republican, since the voters in your district still are. Would work for a democrat too, they don’t care about criminal justice reform either :(\n
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    Might work slightly better for republicans because they can work the identity politics angle more easily.
    """
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
92 DENIED moderate 
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      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
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    Oh shit, I never even thought about that. It’s another level of insidious. 1. Be republican 2. Get a huge prison in your district “for the jobs”, 3. Get more positions guaranteed to be republican, since the voters in your district still are. Would work for a democrat too, they don’t care about criminal justice reform either :(\n
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93 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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94 DENIED moderate 
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      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
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      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
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    I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
    \n
    Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
    \n
    Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
    \n
    [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
    """
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Show voter details
99 DENIED edit 
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      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
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    I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
    \n
    Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
    \n
    Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
    \n
    [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
    """
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      \n
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      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
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    I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
    \n
    Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
    \n
    Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
    \n
    [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
    """
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102 DENIED moderate 
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      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
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      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
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      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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      I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
      \n
      Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
      \n
      Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
      \n
      [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
      """
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  +body: """
    The presenter focuses on argument 1 because he says the other points are “obviously correct” and therefore moral. Imo that’s flawed.\n
    \n
    2. Hunger disease etc are part of a natural cycle which controls population and ecosystem balance.\n
    3. Luxuries are of no significance is not obviously true. Our economic system means that purchasing items of “no moral significance” feeds into a system which supports livelihoods and, in a functional government, provides welfare and health care to populations.\n
    4. There are multiple areas where money could be focused instead of Oxfam etc which could be seen as moral- R&D, luxuries as per 3\n
    \n
    (It might just be that I don’t like philosophy)
    """
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      \n
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      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
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      I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
      \n
      Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
      \n
      Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
      \n
      [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
      """
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    The presenter focuses on argument 1 because he says the other points are “obviously correct” and therefore moral. Imo that’s flawed.\n
    \n
    2. Hunger disease etc are part of a natural cycle which controls population and ecosystem balance.\n
    3. Luxuries are of no significance is not obviously true. Our economic system means that purchasing items of “no moral significance” feeds into a system which supports livelihoods and, in a functional government, provides welfare and health care to populations.\n
    4. There are multiple areas where money could be focused instead of Oxfam etc which could be seen as moral- R&D, luxuries as per 3\n
    \n
    (It might just be that I don’t like philosophy)
    """
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      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
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      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
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      I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
      \n
      Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
      \n
      Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
      \n
      [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
      """
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    The presenter focuses on argument 1 because he says the other points are “obviously correct” and therefore moral. Imo that’s flawed.\n
    \n
    2. Hunger disease etc are part of a natural cycle which controls population and ecosystem balance.\n
    3. Luxuries are of no significance is not obviously true. Our economic system means that purchasing items of “no moral significance” feeds into a system which supports livelihoods and, in a functional government, provides welfare and health care to populations.\n
    4. There are multiple areas where money could be focused instead of Oxfam etc which could be seen as moral- R&D, luxuries as per 3\n
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    (It might just be that I don’t like philosophy)
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
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      \n
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      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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        I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
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        Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
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      The presenter focuses on argument 1 because he says the other points are “obviously correct” and therefore moral. Imo that’s flawed.\n
      \n
      2. Hunger disease etc are part of a natural cycle which controls population and ecosystem balance.\n
      3. Luxuries are of no significance is not obviously true. Our economic system means that purchasing items of “no moral significance” feeds into a system which supports livelihoods and, in a functional government, provides welfare and health care to populations.\n
      4. There are multiple areas where money could be focused instead of Oxfam etc which could be seen as moral- R&D, luxuries as per 3\n
      \n
      (It might just be that I don’t like philosophy)
      """
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    I’m also no philosopher, but I’ve a penchant for ethics.\n
    \n
    I feel like the message is diluted a bit given how much he talks about charity *in our capitalist society*. The question is larger, and it takes some effort to step back and view a collectivist society as it could be.
    """
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107 DENIED edit 
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      \n
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      \n
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      \n
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      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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        I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
        \n
        Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
        \n
        Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
        \n
        [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
        """
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      The presenter focuses on argument 1 because he says the other points are “obviously correct” and therefore moral. Imo that’s flawed.\n
      \n
      2. Hunger disease etc are part of a natural cycle which controls population and ecosystem balance.\n
      3. Luxuries are of no significance is not obviously true. Our economic system means that purchasing items of “no moral significance” feeds into a system which supports livelihoods and, in a functional government, provides welfare and health care to populations.\n
      4. There are multiple areas where money could be focused instead of Oxfam etc which could be seen as moral- R&D, luxuries as per 3\n
      \n
      (It might just be that I don’t like philosophy)
      """
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    I’m also no philosopher, but I’ve a penchant for ethics.\n
    \n
    I feel like the message is diluted a bit given how much he talks about charity *in our capitalist society*. The question is larger, and it takes some effort to step back and view a collectivist society as it could be.
    """
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108 DENIED moderate 
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    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
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      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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        I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
        \n
        Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
        \n
        Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
        \n
        [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
        """
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      The presenter focuses on argument 1 because he says the other points are “obviously correct” and therefore moral. Imo that’s flawed.\n
      \n
      2. Hunger disease etc are part of a natural cycle which controls population and ecosystem balance.\n
      3. Luxuries are of no significance is not obviously true. Our economic system means that purchasing items of “no moral significance” feeds into a system which supports livelihoods and, in a functional government, provides welfare and health care to populations.\n
      4. There are multiple areas where money could be focused instead of Oxfam etc which could be seen as moral- R&D, luxuries as per 3\n
      \n
      (It might just be that I don’t like philosophy)
      """
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    I’m also no philosopher, but I’ve a penchant for ethics.\n
    \n
    I feel like the message is diluted a bit given how much he talks about charity *in our capitalist society*. The question is larger, and it takes some effort to step back and view a collectivist society as it could be.
    """
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      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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        I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
        \n
        Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
        \n
        Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
        \n
        [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
        """
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      The presenter focuses on argument 1 because he says the other points are “obviously correct” and therefore moral. Imo that’s flawed.\n
      \n
      2. Hunger disease etc are part of a natural cycle which controls population and ecosystem balance.\n
      3. Luxuries are of no significance is not obviously true. Our economic system means that purchasing items of “no moral significance” feeds into a system which supports livelihoods and, in a functional government, provides welfare and health care to populations.\n
      4. There are multiple areas where money could be focused instead of Oxfam etc which could be seen as moral- R&D, luxuries as per 3\n
      \n
      (It might just be that I don’t like philosophy)
      """
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  +body: """
    Focusing on your points:\n
    \n
    2. Controlling population - this is flawed completely, the lowest birth rates in the world are in the most affluent countries. In a lot of places it is below the replacement level of 2.1 births/woman. I think it is fine to accept the premise that hunger, disease etc are very bad things.\n
    3. This is think is much more open to attack than point 2. Luxuries are of no moral significance, in my opinion is a flawed premise because it is both a “Straw Man” and a “Rhetorical Definition”.\n
    \n
    - It is a Straw Man argument because: it is weakening any counter point by hand waving away any possible refutation by using “Luxuries” in a pejorative way (in my opinion).\n
    - It is a Rhetorical Definition because it is using Luxuries in an emotionally charged way (again in my opinion); it is equating that you as a person, indulging in “Luxuries” are taking a moral stand. Luxuries are not required for life and thus are immoral, when those same resources could be used to save others lives.\n
    - My refutation: Happy people are generally more productive, having access to some luxuries increases happiness, therefore having access to luxuries increases productivity.\n
    - This leads to: a more productive society generates more tax revenue that can be used to help others. Thus paying your fair share of tax is a moral good.\n
    - Counterpoints: Some people will become hedonistic and focus too much on luxuries. Some people will hoard wealth and forgo their moral obligation to pay their fair share of tax.\n
    - Supporting case: We could look for a real word example…ignoring the situation that lead to it, lets examine the productivity of North vs South Korea, the amount that each country gives to international aid etc…SK gives approx $37USD/citizen, I could not find any data on how much NK gives, we can probably assume it is very low.\n
    \n
    4. What you say here is basically a “rising tide lifts all boats” argument. This is a very valid argument, again using the North/South Korea example, SK has invested heavily in R&D and as an indirect consequence, their ability to help has vastly outstripped that of the North.\n
    \n
    - There is another point here, it seems to me that Singer is providing a “False Dilemma”; essentially saying that there are only two choices here, we either help or don’t help. One choice is good the other evil.\n
    - I posit that there is a middle ground, we can strive for the ability to enjoy some luxuries without devolving into hedonism, whilst still helping those in need.\n
    \n
    In conclusion. You were correct to take issue with the presenter blindly accepting premises 2, 3 & 4. The way you tried to refute point 2 however was not great. Especially since point 2 is the only premise that we can say “is self evident”.\n
    \n
    My points are more temporally distant then those of Singer, he is stating that helping now is better than building the ability to help much much more in the future.
    """
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
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      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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        I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
        \n
        Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
        \n
        Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
        \n
        [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
        """
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      The presenter focuses on argument 1 because he says the other points are “obviously correct” and therefore moral. Imo that’s flawed.\n
      \n
      2. Hunger disease etc are part of a natural cycle which controls population and ecosystem balance.\n
      3. Luxuries are of no significance is not obviously true. Our economic system means that purchasing items of “no moral significance” feeds into a system which supports livelihoods and, in a functional government, provides welfare and health care to populations.\n
      4. There are multiple areas where money could be focused instead of Oxfam etc which could be seen as moral- R&D, luxuries as per 3\n
      \n
      (It might just be that I don’t like philosophy)
      """
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    Focusing on your points:\n
    \n
    2. Controlling population - this is flawed completely, the lowest birth rates in the world are in the most affluent countries. In a lot of places it is below the replacement level of 2.1 births/woman. I think it is fine to accept the premise that hunger, disease etc are very bad things.\n
    3. This is think is much more open to attack than point 2. Luxuries are of no moral significance, in my opinion is a flawed premise because it is both a “Straw Man” and a “Rhetorical Definition”.\n
    \n
    - It is a Straw Man argument because: it is weakening any counter point by hand waving away any possible refutation by using “Luxuries” in a pejorative way (in my opinion).\n
    - It is a Rhetorical Definition because it is using Luxuries in an emotionally charged way (again in my opinion); it is equating that you as a person, indulging in “Luxuries” are taking a moral stand. Luxuries are not required for life and thus are immoral, when those same resources could be used to save others lives.\n
    - My refutation: Happy people are generally more productive, having access to some luxuries increases happiness, therefore having access to luxuries increases productivity.\n
    - This leads to: a more productive society generates more tax revenue that can be used to help others. Thus paying your fair share of tax is a moral good.\n
    - Counterpoints: Some people will become hedonistic and focus too much on luxuries. Some people will hoard wealth and forgo their moral obligation to pay their fair share of tax.\n
    - Supporting case: We could look for a real word example…ignoring the situation that lead to it, lets examine the productivity of North vs South Korea, the amount that each country gives to international aid etc…SK gives approx $37USD/citizen, I could not find any data on how much NK gives, we can probably assume it is very low.\n
    \n
    4. What you say here is basically a “rising tide lifts all boats” argument. This is a very valid argument, again using the North/South Korea example, SK has invested heavily in R&D and as an indirect consequence, their ability to help has vastly outstripped that of the North.\n
    \n
    - There is another point here, it seems to me that Singer is providing a “False Dilemma”; essentially saying that there are only two choices here, we either help or don’t help. One choice is good the other evil.\n
    - I posit that there is a middle ground, we can strive for the ability to enjoy some luxuries without devolving into hedonism, whilst still helping those in need.\n
    \n
    In conclusion. You were correct to take issue with the presenter blindly accepting premises 2, 3 & 4. The way you tried to refute point 2 however was not great. Especially since point 2 is the only premise that we can say “is self evident”.\n
    \n
    My points are more temporally distant then those of Singer, he is stating that helping now is better than building the ability to help much much more in the future.
    """
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      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
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      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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        I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
        \n
        Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
        \n
        Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
        \n
        [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
        """
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      The presenter focuses on argument 1 because he says the other points are “obviously correct” and therefore moral. Imo that’s flawed.\n
      \n
      2. Hunger disease etc are part of a natural cycle which controls population and ecosystem balance.\n
      3. Luxuries are of no significance is not obviously true. Our economic system means that purchasing items of “no moral significance” feeds into a system which supports livelihoods and, in a functional government, provides welfare and health care to populations.\n
      4. There are multiple areas where money could be focused instead of Oxfam etc which could be seen as moral- R&D, luxuries as per 3\n
      \n
      (It might just be that I don’t like philosophy)
      """
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    Focusing on your points:\n
    \n
    2. Controlling population - this is flawed completely, the lowest birth rates in the world are in the most affluent countries. In a lot of places it is below the replacement level of 2.1 births/woman. I think it is fine to accept the premise that hunger, disease etc are very bad things.\n
    3. This is think is much more open to attack than point 2. Luxuries are of no moral significance, in my opinion is a flawed premise because it is both a “Straw Man” and a “Rhetorical Definition”.\n
    \n
    - It is a Straw Man argument because: it is weakening any counter point by hand waving away any possible refutation by using “Luxuries” in a pejorative way (in my opinion).\n
    - It is a Rhetorical Definition because it is using Luxuries in an emotionally charged way (again in my opinion); it is equating that you as a person, indulging in “Luxuries” are taking a moral stand. Luxuries are not required for life and thus are immoral, when those same resources could be used to save others lives.\n
    - My refutation: Happy people are generally more productive, having access to some luxuries increases happiness, therefore having access to luxuries increases productivity.\n
    - This leads to: a more productive society generates more tax revenue that can be used to help others. Thus paying your fair share of tax is a moral good.\n
    - Counterpoints: Some people will become hedonistic and focus too much on luxuries. Some people will hoard wealth and forgo their moral obligation to pay their fair share of tax.\n
    - Supporting case: We could look for a real word example…ignoring the situation that lead to it, lets examine the productivity of North vs South Korea, the amount that each country gives to international aid etc…SK gives approx $37USD/citizen, I could not find any data on how much NK gives, we can probably assume it is very low.\n
    \n
    4. What you say here is basically a “rising tide lifts all boats” argument. This is a very valid argument, again using the North/South Korea example, SK has invested heavily in R&D and as an indirect consequence, their ability to help has vastly outstripped that of the North.\n
    \n
    - There is another point here, it seems to me that Singer is providing a “False Dilemma”; essentially saying that there are only two choices here, we either help or don’t help. One choice is good the other evil.\n
    - I posit that there is a middle ground, we can strive for the ability to enjoy some luxuries without devolving into hedonism, whilst still helping those in need.\n
    \n
    In conclusion. You were correct to take issue with the presenter blindly accepting premises 2, 3 & 4. The way you tried to refute point 2 however was not great. Especially since point 2 is the only premise that we can say “is self evident”.\n
    \n
    My points are more temporally distant then those of Singer, he is stating that helping now is better than building the ability to help much much more in the future.
    """
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      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
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      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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      I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
      \n
      Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
      \n
      Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
      \n
      [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
      """
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    I didn’t actually watch the video, but I have read the original essay and I thought I’d offer a few thoughts (and criticisms) of it.\n
    \n
    An interesting consequence of his strict utilitarianism is that it follows from it that it’s actually immoral to do anything to help issues close to home in pretty much any way if you live in the West, and maybe even in other countries as well, regardless of whether that may be by donating, volunteering, or anything else of the sort.\n
    \n
    > if it is in our power to prevent something bad from happening, without thereby sacrificing anything of comparable moral importance, we ought, morally, to do it.\n
    \n
    Because of wealth disparities between countries, your money will almost always go further somewhere else. If you live in the West, this difference can be extreme, and as a result any money sent there will be able to accomplish far more than it will for people in your own area. Since your donation to help out nearby is a donation not being made elsewhere where it can do more good, it is then to be considered immoral. A similar logic can be applied to volunteering. If when you’re volunteering you are not working to make money which you could donate to much poorer countries, it’s immoral, because your personal work to do good will never be able to equal what your money could do. In fact, your life should essentially be, to the greatest extent that doesn’t reduce the amount you can make by the harm it does to you, you constantly working. He even admits as much:\n
    \n
    > Given the present conditions in many parts of the world, however, it does follow from my argument that we ought, morally, to be working full time to relieve great suffering of the sort that occurs as a result of famine or other disasters.\n
    \n
    He even goes as far as to say the following:\n
    \n
    > we ought to give until we reach the level of marginal utility —that is, the level at which, by giving more, I would cause as much suffering to myself or my dependents as I would relieve by my gift. This would mean, of course, that one would reduce oneself to very near the material circumstances of a Bengali refugee.\n
    \n
    If this is the case, it has important implications for political action in its many manifestations as well. Should I be campaigning for the government to adopt policies which reduce suffering as much as possible? If implemented their effect could be massively beneficial, but I don’t think this works with the arguments he makes. My individual contribution to a political movement will never be the difference between its success and its failure, so it would seem the moral decision is for me to remain effectively apolitical.\n
    \n
    This however strikes me as being in contradiction with this later statements:\n
    \n
    > I agree, too, that giving privately is not enough, and that we ought to be campaigning actively for entirely new standards for both public and private contributions to famine relief.\n
    \n
    > I would sympathize with someone who thought that campaigning was more important than giving oneself\n
    \n
    Ultimately, I am led to the conclusion that following his arguments, the only moral thing to do is in fact to relentlessly pursue financial gain, as donating the money one earns is far and away the most effective use of one’s time and effort to do moral good. The engineer who could have worked for Lockheed Martin designing weapons for the US military is in fact more moral than the one who turns down the job for one that pays substantially less, since it is practically certain that whoever would take the job otherwise would not donate as generously as they do. Applied to capitalists (the class of people, not the supporters of capitalism), it seems that since giving money is the moral thing to do, and giving more money does more good, making more money is the moral thing to do, as it increases one’s capacity to do good. This seems to be borne out by his statements concerning foreign aid, which indicate that it’s not just about giving what you can in the present moment, but also considering how your actions impact your future ability to continue to do so:\n
    \n
    > Yet looking at the matter purely from the point of view of overseas aid, there must be a limit to the extent to which we should deliberately slow down our economy; for it might be the case that if we gave away, say, 40 percent of our Gross National Product, we would slow down the economy so much that in absolute terms we would be giving less than if we gave 25 percent of the much larger GNP that we would have if we limited our contribution to this smaller percentage.\n
    \n
    I find that this ends up being quite problematic, because the ability to grow one’s own wealth is functionally unlimited. It might seem that that’s not a problem if you’re giving away all your wealth, but for it to grow so you can give more, that can’t be the case, because you need to be reinvesting it. As a result you end up with this contradiction, where your are morally obligated to increase your wealth so you can do more good, but at the same time this obligation prevents you from actually putting that wealth into doing good. You could say that the not doing good with the money means that it’s no longer moral so you have to give at some point, but the problem with that is that it’s impossible to define that point. It still remains that at any given point in time the moral thing to do is to reinvest it so that if you give it next time, more will be given. Ironically, this endless pursuit of ever greater wealth is the very same thing that creates so much suffering in the world, even if its justification is usually different, so this argumentation seems to just end up reinforcing the same ills that it hopes to address.\n
    \n
    I do like his conclusion though, directed towards other philosophers, reminiscent of a Marx quote that I’ve always been quite fond of: “The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it.”
    """
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
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      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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      I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
      \n
      Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
      \n
      Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
      \n
      [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
      """
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    I didn’t actually watch the video, but I have read the original essay and I thought I’d offer a few thoughts (and criticisms) of it.\n
    \n
    An interesting consequence of his strict utilitarianism is that it follows from it that it’s actually immoral to do anything to help issues close to home in pretty much any way if you live in the West, and maybe even in other countries as well, regardless of whether that may be by donating, volunteering, or anything else of the sort.\n
    \n
    > if it is in our power to prevent something bad from happening, without thereby sacrificing anything of comparable moral importance, we ought, morally, to do it.\n
    \n
    Because of wealth disparities between countries, your money will almost always go further somewhere else. If you live in the West, this difference can be extreme, and as a result any money sent there will be able to accomplish far more than it will for people in your own area. Since your donation to help out nearby is a donation not being made elsewhere where it can do more good, it is then to be considered immoral. A similar logic can be applied to volunteering. If when you’re volunteering you are not working to make money which you could donate to much poorer countries, it’s immoral, because your personal work to do good will never be able to equal what your money could do. In fact, your life should essentially be, to the greatest extent that doesn’t reduce the amount you can make by the harm it does to you, you constantly working. He even admits as much:\n
    \n
    > Given the present conditions in many parts of the world, however, it does follow from my argument that we ought, morally, to be working full time to relieve great suffering of the sort that occurs as a result of famine or other disasters.\n
    \n
    He even goes as far as to say the following:\n
    \n
    > we ought to give until we reach the level of marginal utility —that is, the level at which, by giving more, I would cause as much suffering to myself or my dependents as I would relieve by my gift. This would mean, of course, that one would reduce oneself to very near the material circumstances of a Bengali refugee.\n
    \n
    If this is the case, it has important implications for political action in its many manifestations as well. Should I be campaigning for the government to adopt policies which reduce suffering as much as possible? If implemented their effect could be massively beneficial, but I don’t think this works with the arguments he makes. My individual contribution to a political movement will never be the difference between its success and its failure, so it would seem the moral decision is for me to remain effectively apolitical.\n
    \n
    This however strikes me as being in contradiction with this later statements:\n
    \n
    > I agree, too, that giving privately is not enough, and that we ought to be campaigning actively for entirely new standards for both public and private contributions to famine relief.\n
    \n
    > I would sympathize with someone who thought that campaigning was more important than giving oneself\n
    \n
    Ultimately, I am led to the conclusion that following his arguments, the only moral thing to do is in fact to relentlessly pursue financial gain, as donating the money one earns is far and away the most effective use of one’s time and effort to do moral good. The engineer who could have worked for Lockheed Martin designing weapons for the US military is in fact more moral than the one who turns down the job for one that pays substantially less, since it is practically certain that whoever would take the job otherwise would not donate as generously as they do. Applied to capitalists (the class of people, not the supporters of capitalism), it seems that since giving money is the moral thing to do, and giving more money does more good, making more money is the moral thing to do, as it increases one’s capacity to do good. This seems to be borne out by his statements concerning foreign aid, which indicate that it’s not just about giving what you can in the present moment, but also considering how your actions impact your future ability to continue to do so:\n
    \n
    > Yet looking at the matter purely from the point of view of overseas aid, there must be a limit to the extent to which we should deliberately slow down our economy; for it might be the case that if we gave away, say, 40 percent of our Gross National Product, we would slow down the economy so much that in absolute terms we would be giving less than if we gave 25 percent of the much larger GNP that we would have if we limited our contribution to this smaller percentage.\n
    \n
    I find that this ends up being quite problematic, because the ability to grow one’s own wealth is functionally unlimited. It might seem that that’s not a problem if you’re giving away all your wealth, but for it to grow so you can give more, that can’t be the case, because you need to be reinvesting it. As a result you end up with this contradiction, where your are morally obligated to increase your wealth so you can do more good, but at the same time this obligation prevents you from actually putting that wealth into doing good. You could say that the not doing good with the money means that it’s no longer moral so you have to give at some point, but the problem with that is that it’s impossible to define that point. It still remains that at any given point in time the moral thing to do is to reinvest it so that if you give it next time, more will be given. Ironically, this endless pursuit of ever greater wealth is the very same thing that creates so much suffering in the world, even if its justification is usually different, so this argumentation seems to just end up reinforcing the same ills that it hopes to address.\n
    \n
    I do like his conclusion though, directed towards other philosophers, reminiscent of a Marx quote that I’ve always been quite fond of: “The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it.”
    """
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116 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3125
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    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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      I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
      \n
      Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
      \n
      Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
      \n
      [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
      """
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    I didn’t actually watch the video, but I have read the original essay and I thought I’d offer a few thoughts (and criticisms) of it.\n
    \n
    An interesting consequence of his strict utilitarianism is that it follows from it that it’s actually immoral to do anything to help issues close to home in pretty much any way if you live in the West, and maybe even in other countries as well, regardless of whether that may be by donating, volunteering, or anything else of the sort.\n
    \n
    > if it is in our power to prevent something bad from happening, without thereby sacrificing anything of comparable moral importance, we ought, morally, to do it.\n
    \n
    Because of wealth disparities between countries, your money will almost always go further somewhere else. If you live in the West, this difference can be extreme, and as a result any money sent there will be able to accomplish far more than it will for people in your own area. Since your donation to help out nearby is a donation not being made elsewhere where it can do more good, it is then to be considered immoral. A similar logic can be applied to volunteering. If when you’re volunteering you are not working to make money which you could donate to much poorer countries, it’s immoral, because your personal work to do good will never be able to equal what your money could do. In fact, your life should essentially be, to the greatest extent that doesn’t reduce the amount you can make by the harm it does to you, you constantly working. He even admits as much:\n
    \n
    > Given the present conditions in many parts of the world, however, it does follow from my argument that we ought, morally, to be working full time to relieve great suffering of the sort that occurs as a result of famine or other disasters.\n
    \n
    He even goes as far as to say the following:\n
    \n
    > we ought to give until we reach the level of marginal utility —that is, the level at which, by giving more, I would cause as much suffering to myself or my dependents as I would relieve by my gift. This would mean, of course, that one would reduce oneself to very near the material circumstances of a Bengali refugee.\n
    \n
    If this is the case, it has important implications for political action in its many manifestations as well. Should I be campaigning for the government to adopt policies which reduce suffering as much as possible? If implemented their effect could be massively beneficial, but I don’t think this works with the arguments he makes. My individual contribution to a political movement will never be the difference between its success and its failure, so it would seem the moral decision is for me to remain effectively apolitical.\n
    \n
    This however strikes me as being in contradiction with this later statements:\n
    \n
    > I agree, too, that giving privately is not enough, and that we ought to be campaigning actively for entirely new standards for both public and private contributions to famine relief.\n
    \n
    > I would sympathize with someone who thought that campaigning was more important than giving oneself\n
    \n
    Ultimately, I am led to the conclusion that following his arguments, the only moral thing to do is in fact to relentlessly pursue financial gain, as donating the money one earns is far and away the most effective use of one’s time and effort to do moral good. The engineer who could have worked for Lockheed Martin designing weapons for the US military is in fact more moral than the one who turns down the job for one that pays substantially less, since it is practically certain that whoever would take the job otherwise would not donate as generously as they do. Applied to capitalists (the class of people, not the supporters of capitalism), it seems that since giving money is the moral thing to do, and giving more money does more good, making more money is the moral thing to do, as it increases one’s capacity to do good. This seems to be borne out by his statements concerning foreign aid, which indicate that it’s not just about giving what you can in the present moment, but also considering how your actions impact your future ability to continue to do so:\n
    \n
    > Yet looking at the matter purely from the point of view of overseas aid, there must be a limit to the extent to which we should deliberately slow down our economy; for it might be the case that if we gave away, say, 40 percent of our Gross National Product, we would slow down the economy so much that in absolute terms we would be giving less than if we gave 25 percent of the much larger GNP that we would have if we limited our contribution to this smaller percentage.\n
    \n
    I find that this ends up being quite problematic, because the ability to grow one’s own wealth is functionally unlimited. It might seem that that’s not a problem if you’re giving away all your wealth, but for it to grow so you can give more, that can’t be the case, because you need to be reinvesting it. As a result you end up with this contradiction, where your are morally obligated to increase your wealth so you can do more good, but at the same time this obligation prevents you from actually putting that wealth into doing good. You could say that the not doing good with the money means that it’s no longer moral so you have to give at some point, but the problem with that is that it’s impossible to define that point. It still remains that at any given point in time the moral thing to do is to reinvest it so that if you give it next time, more will be given. Ironically, this endless pursuit of ever greater wealth is the very same thing that creates so much suffering in the world, even if its justification is usually different, so this argumentation seems to just end up reinforcing the same ills that it hopes to address.\n
    \n
    I do like his conclusion though, directed towards other philosophers, reminiscent of a Marx quote that I’ve always been quite fond of: “The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it.”
    """
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      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
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      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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        I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
        \n
        Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
        \n
        Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
        \n
        [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
        """
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      I didn’t actually watch the video, but I have read the original essay and I thought I’d offer a few thoughts (and criticisms) of it.\n
      \n
      An interesting consequence of his strict utilitarianism is that it follows from it that it’s actually immoral to do anything to help issues close to home in pretty much any way if you live in the West, and maybe even in other countries as well, regardless of whether that may be by donating, volunteering, or anything else of the sort.\n
      \n
      > if it is in our power to prevent something bad from happening, without thereby sacrificing anything of comparable moral importance, we ought, morally, to do it.\n
      \n
      Because of wealth disparities between countries, your money will almost always go further somewhere else. If you live in the West, this difference can be extreme, and as a result any money sent there will be able to accomplish far more than it will for people in your own area. Since your donation to help out nearby is a donation not being made elsewhere where it can do more good, it is then to be considered immoral. A similar logic can be applied to volunteering. If when you’re volunteering you are not working to make money which you could donate to much poorer countries, it’s immoral, because your personal work to do good will never be able to equal what your money could do. In fact, your life should essentially be, to the greatest extent that doesn’t reduce the amount you can make by the harm it does to you, you constantly working. He even admits as much:\n
      \n
      > Given the present conditions in many parts of the world, however, it does follow from my argument that we ought, morally, to be working full time to relieve great suffering of the sort that occurs as a result of famine or other disasters.\n
      \n
      He even goes as far as to say the following:\n
      \n
      > we ought to give until we reach the level of marginal utility —that is, the level at which, by giving more, I would cause as much suffering to myself or my dependents as I would relieve by my gift. This would mean, of course, that one would reduce oneself to very near the material circumstances of a Bengali refugee.\n
      \n
      If this is the case, it has important implications for political action in its many manifestations as well. Should I be campaigning for the government to adopt policies which reduce suffering as much as possible? If implemented their effect could be massively beneficial, but I don’t think this works with the arguments he makes. My individual contribution to a political movement will never be the difference between its success and its failure, so it would seem the moral decision is for me to remain effectively apolitical.\n
      \n
      This however strikes me as being in contradiction with this later statements:\n
      \n
      > I agree, too, that giving privately is not enough, and that we ought to be campaigning actively for entirely new standards for both public and private contributions to famine relief.\n
      \n
      > I would sympathize with someone who thought that campaigning was more important than giving oneself\n
      \n
      Ultimately, I am led to the conclusion that following his arguments, the only moral thing to do is in fact to relentlessly pursue financial gain, as donating the money one earns is far and away the most effective use of one’s time and effort to do moral good. The engineer who could have worked for Lockheed Martin designing weapons for the US military is in fact more moral than the one who turns down the job for one that pays substantially less, since it is practically certain that whoever would take the job otherwise would not donate as generously as they do. Applied to capitalists (the class of people, not the supporters of capitalism), it seems that since giving money is the moral thing to do, and giving more money does more good, making more money is the moral thing to do, as it increases one’s capacity to do good. This seems to be borne out by his statements concerning foreign aid, which indicate that it’s not just about giving what you can in the present moment, but also considering how your actions impact your future ability to continue to do so:\n
      \n
      > Yet looking at the matter purely from the point of view of overseas aid, there must be a limit to the extent to which we should deliberately slow down our economy; for it might be the case that if we gave away, say, 40 percent of our Gross National Product, we would slow down the economy so much that in absolute terms we would be giving less than if we gave 25 percent of the much larger GNP that we would have if we limited our contribution to this smaller percentage.\n
      \n
      I find that this ends up being quite problematic, because the ability to grow one’s own wealth is functionally unlimited. It might seem that that’s not a problem if you’re giving away all your wealth, but for it to grow so you can give more, that can’t be the case, because you need to be reinvesting it. As a result you end up with this contradiction, where your are morally obligated to increase your wealth so you can do more good, but at the same time this obligation prevents you from actually putting that wealth into doing good. You could say that the not doing good with the money means that it’s no longer moral so you have to give at some point, but the problem with that is that it’s impossible to define that point. It still remains that at any given point in time the moral thing to do is to reinvest it so that if you give it next time, more will be given. Ironically, this endless pursuit of ever greater wealth is the very same thing that creates so much suffering in the world, even if its justification is usually different, so this argumentation seems to just end up reinforcing the same ills that it hopes to address.\n
      \n
      I do like his conclusion though, directed towards other philosophers, reminiscent of a Marx quote that I’ve always been quite fond of: “The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it.”
      """
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    Does Singer explore how the limits of one’s knowledge about the impacts of their actions might play into the decisions?\n
    \n
    Like, I could send $5 to some overseas charity, but I don’t have a good way to know how that money is being used. Conversely, I could use it locally myself to reduce suffering in a way I can verify.\n
    \n
    It seems to me that morally I should prioritize actions I know will reduce suffering over actions that may reduce suffering but that I cannot verify. Verification is important because immoral actors exist, so I can’t just assume that moral actions that I delegate to other actors will be carried out. Since it’s easier to have good knowledge about local actions (in particular those I execute personally), this would tend to favor local actions.
    """
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119 DENIED edit 
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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      +body: """
        I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
        \n
        Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
        \n
        Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
        \n
        [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
        """
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      I didn’t actually watch the video, but I have read the original essay and I thought I’d offer a few thoughts (and criticisms) of it.\n
      \n
      An interesting consequence of his strict utilitarianism is that it follows from it that it’s actually immoral to do anything to help issues close to home in pretty much any way if you live in the West, and maybe even in other countries as well, regardless of whether that may be by donating, volunteering, or anything else of the sort.\n
      \n
      > if it is in our power to prevent something bad from happening, without thereby sacrificing anything of comparable moral importance, we ought, morally, to do it.\n
      \n
      Because of wealth disparities between countries, your money will almost always go further somewhere else. If you live in the West, this difference can be extreme, and as a result any money sent there will be able to accomplish far more than it will for people in your own area. Since your donation to help out nearby is a donation not being made elsewhere where it can do more good, it is then to be considered immoral. A similar logic can be applied to volunteering. If when you’re volunteering you are not working to make money which you could donate to much poorer countries, it’s immoral, because your personal work to do good will never be able to equal what your money could do. In fact, your life should essentially be, to the greatest extent that doesn’t reduce the amount you can make by the harm it does to you, you constantly working. He even admits as much:\n
      \n
      > Given the present conditions in many parts of the world, however, it does follow from my argument that we ought, morally, to be working full time to relieve great suffering of the sort that occurs as a result of famine or other disasters.\n
      \n
      He even goes as far as to say the following:\n
      \n
      > we ought to give until we reach the level of marginal utility —that is, the level at which, by giving more, I would cause as much suffering to myself or my dependents as I would relieve by my gift. This would mean, of course, that one would reduce oneself to very near the material circumstances of a Bengali refugee.\n
      \n
      If this is the case, it has important implications for political action in its many manifestations as well. Should I be campaigning for the government to adopt policies which reduce suffering as much as possible? If implemented their effect could be massively beneficial, but I don’t think this works with the arguments he makes. My individual contribution to a political movement will never be the difference between its success and its failure, so it would seem the moral decision is for me to remain effectively apolitical.\n
      \n
      This however strikes me as being in contradiction with this later statements:\n
      \n
      > I agree, too, that giving privately is not enough, and that we ought to be campaigning actively for entirely new standards for both public and private contributions to famine relief.\n
      \n
      > I would sympathize with someone who thought that campaigning was more important than giving oneself\n
      \n
      Ultimately, I am led to the conclusion that following his arguments, the only moral thing to do is in fact to relentlessly pursue financial gain, as donating the money one earns is far and away the most effective use of one’s time and effort to do moral good. The engineer who could have worked for Lockheed Martin designing weapons for the US military is in fact more moral than the one who turns down the job for one that pays substantially less, since it is practically certain that whoever would take the job otherwise would not donate as generously as they do. Applied to capitalists (the class of people, not the supporters of capitalism), it seems that since giving money is the moral thing to do, and giving more money does more good, making more money is the moral thing to do, as it increases one’s capacity to do good. This seems to be borne out by his statements concerning foreign aid, which indicate that it’s not just about giving what you can in the present moment, but also considering how your actions impact your future ability to continue to do so:\n
      \n
      > Yet looking at the matter purely from the point of view of overseas aid, there must be a limit to the extent to which we should deliberately slow down our economy; for it might be the case that if we gave away, say, 40 percent of our Gross National Product, we would slow down the economy so much that in absolute terms we would be giving less than if we gave 25 percent of the much larger GNP that we would have if we limited our contribution to this smaller percentage.\n
      \n
      I find that this ends up being quite problematic, because the ability to grow one’s own wealth is functionally unlimited. It might seem that that’s not a problem if you’re giving away all your wealth, but for it to grow so you can give more, that can’t be the case, because you need to be reinvesting it. As a result you end up with this contradiction, where your are morally obligated to increase your wealth so you can do more good, but at the same time this obligation prevents you from actually putting that wealth into doing good. You could say that the not doing good with the money means that it’s no longer moral so you have to give at some point, but the problem with that is that it’s impossible to define that point. It still remains that at any given point in time the moral thing to do is to reinvest it so that if you give it next time, more will be given. Ironically, this endless pursuit of ever greater wealth is the very same thing that creates so much suffering in the world, even if its justification is usually different, so this argumentation seems to just end up reinforcing the same ills that it hopes to address.\n
      \n
      I do like his conclusion though, directed towards other philosophers, reminiscent of a Marx quote that I’ve always been quite fond of: “The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it.”
      """
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    Does Singer explore how the limits of one’s knowledge about the impacts of their actions might play into the decisions?\n
    \n
    Like, I could send $5 to some overseas charity, but I don’t have a good way to know how that money is being used. Conversely, I could use it locally myself to reduce suffering in a way I can verify.\n
    \n
    It seems to me that morally I should prioritize actions I know will reduce suffering over actions that may reduce suffering but that I cannot verify. Verification is important because immoral actors exist, so I can’t just assume that moral actions that I delegate to other actors will be carried out. Since it’s easier to have good knowledge about local actions (in particular those I execute personally), this would tend to favor local actions.
    """
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120 DENIED moderate 
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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      +body: """
        I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
        \n
        Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
        \n
        Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
        \n
        [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
        """
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      I didn’t actually watch the video, but I have read the original essay and I thought I’d offer a few thoughts (and criticisms) of it.\n
      \n
      An interesting consequence of his strict utilitarianism is that it follows from it that it’s actually immoral to do anything to help issues close to home in pretty much any way if you live in the West, and maybe even in other countries as well, regardless of whether that may be by donating, volunteering, or anything else of the sort.\n
      \n
      > if it is in our power to prevent something bad from happening, without thereby sacrificing anything of comparable moral importance, we ought, morally, to do it.\n
      \n
      Because of wealth disparities between countries, your money will almost always go further somewhere else. If you live in the West, this difference can be extreme, and as a result any money sent there will be able to accomplish far more than it will for people in your own area. Since your donation to help out nearby is a donation not being made elsewhere where it can do more good, it is then to be considered immoral. A similar logic can be applied to volunteering. If when you’re volunteering you are not working to make money which you could donate to much poorer countries, it’s immoral, because your personal work to do good will never be able to equal what your money could do. In fact, your life should essentially be, to the greatest extent that doesn’t reduce the amount you can make by the harm it does to you, you constantly working. He even admits as much:\n
      \n
      > Given the present conditions in many parts of the world, however, it does follow from my argument that we ought, morally, to be working full time to relieve great suffering of the sort that occurs as a result of famine or other disasters.\n
      \n
      He even goes as far as to say the following:\n
      \n
      > we ought to give until we reach the level of marginal utility —that is, the level at which, by giving more, I would cause as much suffering to myself or my dependents as I would relieve by my gift. This would mean, of course, that one would reduce oneself to very near the material circumstances of a Bengali refugee.\n
      \n
      If this is the case, it has important implications for political action in its many manifestations as well. Should I be campaigning for the government to adopt policies which reduce suffering as much as possible? If implemented their effect could be massively beneficial, but I don’t think this works with the arguments he makes. My individual contribution to a political movement will never be the difference between its success and its failure, so it would seem the moral decision is for me to remain effectively apolitical.\n
      \n
      This however strikes me as being in contradiction with this later statements:\n
      \n
      > I agree, too, that giving privately is not enough, and that we ought to be campaigning actively for entirely new standards for both public and private contributions to famine relief.\n
      \n
      > I would sympathize with someone who thought that campaigning was more important than giving oneself\n
      \n
      Ultimately, I am led to the conclusion that following his arguments, the only moral thing to do is in fact to relentlessly pursue financial gain, as donating the money one earns is far and away the most effective use of one’s time and effort to do moral good. The engineer who could have worked for Lockheed Martin designing weapons for the US military is in fact more moral than the one who turns down the job for one that pays substantially less, since it is practically certain that whoever would take the job otherwise would not donate as generously as they do. Applied to capitalists (the class of people, not the supporters of capitalism), it seems that since giving money is the moral thing to do, and giving more money does more good, making more money is the moral thing to do, as it increases one’s capacity to do good. This seems to be borne out by his statements concerning foreign aid, which indicate that it’s not just about giving what you can in the present moment, but also considering how your actions impact your future ability to continue to do so:\n
      \n
      > Yet looking at the matter purely from the point of view of overseas aid, there must be a limit to the extent to which we should deliberately slow down our economy; for it might be the case that if we gave away, say, 40 percent of our Gross National Product, we would slow down the economy so much that in absolute terms we would be giving less than if we gave 25 percent of the much larger GNP that we would have if we limited our contribution to this smaller percentage.\n
      \n
      I find that this ends up being quite problematic, because the ability to grow one’s own wealth is functionally unlimited. It might seem that that’s not a problem if you’re giving away all your wealth, but for it to grow so you can give more, that can’t be the case, because you need to be reinvesting it. As a result you end up with this contradiction, where your are morally obligated to increase your wealth so you can do more good, but at the same time this obligation prevents you from actually putting that wealth into doing good. You could say that the not doing good with the money means that it’s no longer moral so you have to give at some point, but the problem with that is that it’s impossible to define that point. It still remains that at any given point in time the moral thing to do is to reinvest it so that if you give it next time, more will be given. Ironically, this endless pursuit of ever greater wealth is the very same thing that creates so much suffering in the world, even if its justification is usually different, so this argumentation seems to just end up reinforcing the same ills that it hopes to address.\n
      \n
      I do like his conclusion though, directed towards other philosophers, reminiscent of a Marx quote that I’ve always been quite fond of: “The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it.”
      """
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    Does Singer explore how the limits of one’s knowledge about the impacts of their actions might play into the decisions?\n
    \n
    Like, I could send $5 to some overseas charity, but I don’t have a good way to know how that money is being used. Conversely, I could use it locally myself to reduce suffering in a way I can verify.\n
    \n
    It seems to me that morally I should prioritize actions I know will reduce suffering over actions that may reduce suffering but that I cannot verify. Verification is important because immoral actors exist, so I can’t just assume that moral actions that I delegate to other actors will be carried out. Since it’s easier to have good knowledge about local actions (in particular those I execute personally), this would tend to favor local actions.
    """
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      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
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      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
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      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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        +body: """
          I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
          \n
          Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
          \n
          Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
          \n
          [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
          """
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      +body: """
        I didn’t actually watch the video, but I have read the original essay and I thought I’d offer a few thoughts (and criticisms) of it.\n
        \n
        An interesting consequence of his strict utilitarianism is that it follows from it that it’s actually immoral to do anything to help issues close to home in pretty much any way if you live in the West, and maybe even in other countries as well, regardless of whether that may be by donating, volunteering, or anything else of the sort.\n
        \n
        > if it is in our power to prevent something bad from happening, without thereby sacrificing anything of comparable moral importance, we ought, morally, to do it.\n
        \n
        Because of wealth disparities between countries, your money will almost always go further somewhere else. If you live in the West, this difference can be extreme, and as a result any money sent there will be able to accomplish far more than it will for people in your own area. Since your donation to help out nearby is a donation not being made elsewhere where it can do more good, it is then to be considered immoral. A similar logic can be applied to volunteering. If when you’re volunteering you are not working to make money which you could donate to much poorer countries, it’s immoral, because your personal work to do good will never be able to equal what your money could do. In fact, your life should essentially be, to the greatest extent that doesn’t reduce the amount you can make by the harm it does to you, you constantly working. He even admits as much:\n
        \n
        > Given the present conditions in many parts of the world, however, it does follow from my argument that we ought, morally, to be working full time to relieve great suffering of the sort that occurs as a result of famine or other disasters.\n
        \n
        He even goes as far as to say the following:\n
        \n
        > we ought to give until we reach the level of marginal utility —that is, the level at which, by giving more, I would cause as much suffering to myself or my dependents as I would relieve by my gift. This would mean, of course, that one would reduce oneself to very near the material circumstances of a Bengali refugee.\n
        \n
        If this is the case, it has important implications for political action in its many manifestations as well. Should I be campaigning for the government to adopt policies which reduce suffering as much as possible? If implemented their effect could be massively beneficial, but I don’t think this works with the arguments he makes. My individual contribution to a political movement will never be the difference between its success and its failure, so it would seem the moral decision is for me to remain effectively apolitical.\n
        \n
        This however strikes me as being in contradiction with this later statements:\n
        \n
        > I agree, too, that giving privately is not enough, and that we ought to be campaigning actively for entirely new standards for both public and private contributions to famine relief.\n
        \n
        > I would sympathize with someone who thought that campaigning was more important than giving oneself\n
        \n
        Ultimately, I am led to the conclusion that following his arguments, the only moral thing to do is in fact to relentlessly pursue financial gain, as donating the money one earns is far and away the most effective use of one’s time and effort to do moral good. The engineer who could have worked for Lockheed Martin designing weapons for the US military is in fact more moral than the one who turns down the job for one that pays substantially less, since it is practically certain that whoever would take the job otherwise would not donate as generously as they do. Applied to capitalists (the class of people, not the supporters of capitalism), it seems that since giving money is the moral thing to do, and giving more money does more good, making more money is the moral thing to do, as it increases one’s capacity to do good. This seems to be borne out by his statements concerning foreign aid, which indicate that it’s not just about giving what you can in the present moment, but also considering how your actions impact your future ability to continue to do so:\n
        \n
        > Yet looking at the matter purely from the point of view of overseas aid, there must be a limit to the extent to which we should deliberately slow down our economy; for it might be the case that if we gave away, say, 40 percent of our Gross National Product, we would slow down the economy so much that in absolute terms we would be giving less than if we gave 25 percent of the much larger GNP that we would have if we limited our contribution to this smaller percentage.\n
        \n
        I find that this ends up being quite problematic, because the ability to grow one’s own wealth is functionally unlimited. It might seem that that’s not a problem if you’re giving away all your wealth, but for it to grow so you can give more, that can’t be the case, because you need to be reinvesting it. As a result you end up with this contradiction, where your are morally obligated to increase your wealth so you can do more good, but at the same time this obligation prevents you from actually putting that wealth into doing good. You could say that the not doing good with the money means that it’s no longer moral so you have to give at some point, but the problem with that is that it’s impossible to define that point. It still remains that at any given point in time the moral thing to do is to reinvest it so that if you give it next time, more will be given. Ironically, this endless pursuit of ever greater wealth is the very same thing that creates so much suffering in the world, even if its justification is usually different, so this argumentation seems to just end up reinforcing the same ills that it hopes to address.\n
        \n
        I do like his conclusion though, directed towards other philosophers, reminiscent of a Marx quote that I’ve always been quite fond of: “The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it.”
        """
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      Does Singer explore how the limits of one’s knowledge about the impacts of their actions might play into the decisions?\n
      \n
      Like, I could send $5 to some overseas charity, but I don’t have a good way to know how that money is being used. Conversely, I could use it locally myself to reduce suffering in a way I can verify.\n
      \n
      It seems to me that morally I should prioritize actions I know will reduce suffering over actions that may reduce suffering but that I cannot verify. Verification is important because immoral actors exist, so I can’t just assume that moral actions that I delegate to other actors will be carried out. Since it’s easier to have good knowledge about local actions (in particular those I execute personally), this would tend to favor local actions.
      """
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    > Does Singer explore how the limits of one’s knowledge about the impacts of their actions might play into the decisions?\n
    \n
    Only very briefly, and not in a way that I think really addresses your specific example:\n
    \n
    > Admittedly, it is possible that we are in a better position to judge what needs to be done to help a person near to us than one far away, and perhaps also to provide the assistance we judge to be necessary. If this were the case, it would be a reason for helping those near to us first. This may once have been a justification for being more concerned with the poor in one’s town than with famine victims in India. Unfortunately for those who like to keep their moral responsibilities limited, instant communication and swift transportation have changed the situation. From the moral point of view, the development of the world into a “global village” has made an important, though still unrecognized, difference to our moral situation. Expert observers and supervisors, sent out by famine relief organizations or permanently stationed in famine-prone areas, can direct our aid to a refugee in Bengal almost as effectively as we could get it to someone in our own block. There would seem, therefore, to be no possible justification for discriminating on geographical grounds.
    """
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      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
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      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
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      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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        +body: """
          I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
          \n
          Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
          \n
          Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
          \n
          [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
          """
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        I didn’t actually watch the video, but I have read the original essay and I thought I’d offer a few thoughts (and criticisms) of it.\n
        \n
        An interesting consequence of his strict utilitarianism is that it follows from it that it’s actually immoral to do anything to help issues close to home in pretty much any way if you live in the West, and maybe even in other countries as well, regardless of whether that may be by donating, volunteering, or anything else of the sort.\n
        \n
        > if it is in our power to prevent something bad from happening, without thereby sacrificing anything of comparable moral importance, we ought, morally, to do it.\n
        \n
        Because of wealth disparities between countries, your money will almost always go further somewhere else. If you live in the West, this difference can be extreme, and as a result any money sent there will be able to accomplish far more than it will for people in your own area. Since your donation to help out nearby is a donation not being made elsewhere where it can do more good, it is then to be considered immoral. A similar logic can be applied to volunteering. If when you’re volunteering you are not working to make money which you could donate to much poorer countries, it’s immoral, because your personal work to do good will never be able to equal what your money could do. In fact, your life should essentially be, to the greatest extent that doesn’t reduce the amount you can make by the harm it does to you, you constantly working. He even admits as much:\n
        \n
        > Given the present conditions in many parts of the world, however, it does follow from my argument that we ought, morally, to be working full time to relieve great suffering of the sort that occurs as a result of famine or other disasters.\n
        \n
        He even goes as far as to say the following:\n
        \n
        > we ought to give until we reach the level of marginal utility —that is, the level at which, by giving more, I would cause as much suffering to myself or my dependents as I would relieve by my gift. This would mean, of course, that one would reduce oneself to very near the material circumstances of a Bengali refugee.\n
        \n
        If this is the case, it has important implications for political action in its many manifestations as well. Should I be campaigning for the government to adopt policies which reduce suffering as much as possible? If implemented their effect could be massively beneficial, but I don’t think this works with the arguments he makes. My individual contribution to a political movement will never be the difference between its success and its failure, so it would seem the moral decision is for me to remain effectively apolitical.\n
        \n
        This however strikes me as being in contradiction with this later statements:\n
        \n
        > I agree, too, that giving privately is not enough, and that we ought to be campaigning actively for entirely new standards for both public and private contributions to famine relief.\n
        \n
        > I would sympathize with someone who thought that campaigning was more important than giving oneself\n
        \n
        Ultimately, I am led to the conclusion that following his arguments, the only moral thing to do is in fact to relentlessly pursue financial gain, as donating the money one earns is far and away the most effective use of one’s time and effort to do moral good. The engineer who could have worked for Lockheed Martin designing weapons for the US military is in fact more moral than the one who turns down the job for one that pays substantially less, since it is practically certain that whoever would take the job otherwise would not donate as generously as they do. Applied to capitalists (the class of people, not the supporters of capitalism), it seems that since giving money is the moral thing to do, and giving more money does more good, making more money is the moral thing to do, as it increases one’s capacity to do good. This seems to be borne out by his statements concerning foreign aid, which indicate that it’s not just about giving what you can in the present moment, but also considering how your actions impact your future ability to continue to do so:\n
        \n
        > Yet looking at the matter purely from the point of view of overseas aid, there must be a limit to the extent to which we should deliberately slow down our economy; for it might be the case that if we gave away, say, 40 percent of our Gross National Product, we would slow down the economy so much that in absolute terms we would be giving less than if we gave 25 percent of the much larger GNP that we would have if we limited our contribution to this smaller percentage.\n
        \n
        I find that this ends up being quite problematic, because the ability to grow one’s own wealth is functionally unlimited. It might seem that that’s not a problem if you’re giving away all your wealth, but for it to grow so you can give more, that can’t be the case, because you need to be reinvesting it. As a result you end up with this contradiction, where your are morally obligated to increase your wealth so you can do more good, but at the same time this obligation prevents you from actually putting that wealth into doing good. You could say that the not doing good with the money means that it’s no longer moral so you have to give at some point, but the problem with that is that it’s impossible to define that point. It still remains that at any given point in time the moral thing to do is to reinvest it so that if you give it next time, more will be given. Ironically, this endless pursuit of ever greater wealth is the very same thing that creates so much suffering in the world, even if its justification is usually different, so this argumentation seems to just end up reinforcing the same ills that it hopes to address.\n
        \n
        I do like his conclusion though, directed towards other philosophers, reminiscent of a Marx quote that I’ve always been quite fond of: “The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it.”
        """
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      Does Singer explore how the limits of one’s knowledge about the impacts of their actions might play into the decisions?\n
      \n
      Like, I could send $5 to some overseas charity, but I don’t have a good way to know how that money is being used. Conversely, I could use it locally myself to reduce suffering in a way I can verify.\n
      \n
      It seems to me that morally I should prioritize actions I know will reduce suffering over actions that may reduce suffering but that I cannot verify. Verification is important because immoral actors exist, so I can’t just assume that moral actions that I delegate to other actors will be carried out. Since it’s easier to have good knowledge about local actions (in particular those I execute personally), this would tend to favor local actions.
      """
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    > Does Singer explore how the limits of one’s knowledge about the impacts of their actions might play into the decisions?\n
    \n
    Only very briefly, and not in a way that I think really addresses your specific example:\n
    \n
    > Admittedly, it is possible that we are in a better position to judge what needs to be done to help a person near to us than one far away, and perhaps also to provide the assistance we judge to be necessary. If this were the case, it would be a reason for helping those near to us first. This may once have been a justification for being more concerned with the poor in one’s town than with famine victims in India. Unfortunately for those who like to keep their moral responsibilities limited, instant communication and swift transportation have changed the situation. From the moral point of view, the development of the world into a “global village” has made an important, though still unrecognized, difference to our moral situation. Expert observers and supervisors, sent out by famine relief organizations or permanently stationed in famine-prone areas, can direct our aid to a refugee in Bengal almost as effectively as we could get it to someone in our own block. There would seem, therefore, to be no possible justification for discriminating on geographical grounds.
    """
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      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
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        +body: """
          I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
          \n
          Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
          \n
          Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
          \n
          [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
          """
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        I didn’t actually watch the video, but I have read the original essay and I thought I’d offer a few thoughts (and criticisms) of it.\n
        \n
        An interesting consequence of his strict utilitarianism is that it follows from it that it’s actually immoral to do anything to help issues close to home in pretty much any way if you live in the West, and maybe even in other countries as well, regardless of whether that may be by donating, volunteering, or anything else of the sort.\n
        \n
        > if it is in our power to prevent something bad from happening, without thereby sacrificing anything of comparable moral importance, we ought, morally, to do it.\n
        \n
        Because of wealth disparities between countries, your money will almost always go further somewhere else. If you live in the West, this difference can be extreme, and as a result any money sent there will be able to accomplish far more than it will for people in your own area. Since your donation to help out nearby is a donation not being made elsewhere where it can do more good, it is then to be considered immoral. A similar logic can be applied to volunteering. If when you’re volunteering you are not working to make money which you could donate to much poorer countries, it’s immoral, because your personal work to do good will never be able to equal what your money could do. In fact, your life should essentially be, to the greatest extent that doesn’t reduce the amount you can make by the harm it does to you, you constantly working. He even admits as much:\n
        \n
        > Given the present conditions in many parts of the world, however, it does follow from my argument that we ought, morally, to be working full time to relieve great suffering of the sort that occurs as a result of famine or other disasters.\n
        \n
        He even goes as far as to say the following:\n
        \n
        > we ought to give until we reach the level of marginal utility —that is, the level at which, by giving more, I would cause as much suffering to myself or my dependents as I would relieve by my gift. This would mean, of course, that one would reduce oneself to very near the material circumstances of a Bengali refugee.\n
        \n
        If this is the case, it has important implications for political action in its many manifestations as well. Should I be campaigning for the government to adopt policies which reduce suffering as much as possible? If implemented their effect could be massively beneficial, but I don’t think this works with the arguments he makes. My individual contribution to a political movement will never be the difference between its success and its failure, so it would seem the moral decision is for me to remain effectively apolitical.\n
        \n
        This however strikes me as being in contradiction with this later statements:\n
        \n
        > I agree, too, that giving privately is not enough, and that we ought to be campaigning actively for entirely new standards for both public and private contributions to famine relief.\n
        \n
        > I would sympathize with someone who thought that campaigning was more important than giving oneself\n
        \n
        Ultimately, I am led to the conclusion that following his arguments, the only moral thing to do is in fact to relentlessly pursue financial gain, as donating the money one earns is far and away the most effective use of one’s time and effort to do moral good. The engineer who could have worked for Lockheed Martin designing weapons for the US military is in fact more moral than the one who turns down the job for one that pays substantially less, since it is practically certain that whoever would take the job otherwise would not donate as generously as they do. Applied to capitalists (the class of people, not the supporters of capitalism), it seems that since giving money is the moral thing to do, and giving more money does more good, making more money is the moral thing to do, as it increases one’s capacity to do good. This seems to be borne out by his statements concerning foreign aid, which indicate that it’s not just about giving what you can in the present moment, but also considering how your actions impact your future ability to continue to do so:\n
        \n
        > Yet looking at the matter purely from the point of view of overseas aid, there must be a limit to the extent to which we should deliberately slow down our economy; for it might be the case that if we gave away, say, 40 percent of our Gross National Product, we would slow down the economy so much that in absolute terms we would be giving less than if we gave 25 percent of the much larger GNP that we would have if we limited our contribution to this smaller percentage.\n
        \n
        I find that this ends up being quite problematic, because the ability to grow one’s own wealth is functionally unlimited. It might seem that that’s not a problem if you’re giving away all your wealth, but for it to grow so you can give more, that can’t be the case, because you need to be reinvesting it. As a result you end up with this contradiction, where your are morally obligated to increase your wealth so you can do more good, but at the same time this obligation prevents you from actually putting that wealth into doing good. You could say that the not doing good with the money means that it’s no longer moral so you have to give at some point, but the problem with that is that it’s impossible to define that point. It still remains that at any given point in time the moral thing to do is to reinvest it so that if you give it next time, more will be given. Ironically, this endless pursuit of ever greater wealth is the very same thing that creates so much suffering in the world, even if its justification is usually different, so this argumentation seems to just end up reinforcing the same ills that it hopes to address.\n
        \n
        I do like his conclusion though, directed towards other philosophers, reminiscent of a Marx quote that I’ve always been quite fond of: “The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways; the point is to change it.”
        """
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      Does Singer explore how the limits of one’s knowledge about the impacts of their actions might play into the decisions?\n
      \n
      Like, I could send $5 to some overseas charity, but I don’t have a good way to know how that money is being used. Conversely, I could use it locally myself to reduce suffering in a way I can verify.\n
      \n
      It seems to me that morally I should prioritize actions I know will reduce suffering over actions that may reduce suffering but that I cannot verify. Verification is important because immoral actors exist, so I can’t just assume that moral actions that I delegate to other actors will be carried out. Since it’s easier to have good knowledge about local actions (in particular those I execute personally), this would tend to favor local actions.
      """
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    > Does Singer explore how the limits of one’s knowledge about the impacts of their actions might play into the decisions?\n
    \n
    Only very briefly, and not in a way that I think really addresses your specific example:\n
    \n
    > Admittedly, it is possible that we are in a better position to judge what needs to be done to help a person near to us than one far away, and perhaps also to provide the assistance we judge to be necessary. If this were the case, it would be a reason for helping those near to us first. This may once have been a justification for being more concerned with the poor in one’s town than with famine victims in India. Unfortunately for those who like to keep their moral responsibilities limited, instant communication and swift transportation have changed the situation. From the moral point of view, the development of the world into a “global village” has made an important, though still unrecognized, difference to our moral situation. Expert observers and supervisors, sent out by famine relief organizations or permanently stationed in famine-prone areas, can direct our aid to a refugee in Bengal almost as effectively as we could get it to someone in our own block. There would seem, therefore, to be no possible justification for discriminating on geographical grounds.
    """
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      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
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    +body: """
      I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
      \n
      Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
      \n
      Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
      \n
      [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
      """
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  +body: "I’ve watched like 10 minutes and I hate it. Peter Singer is a very controversial figure as it is, on top of that the guy in the video comes off as super condescending to me and I can’t stand watching him for longer. Me personally, I don’t think it’s “immoral” to not give money to charity. And terms like *immoral* or *evil* are usually defined by the society you live in and not some random philosopher. And I bet there are good reasons his radical ideas in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality” did not get embedded in our society yet."
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}
 
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      \n
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      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
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      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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  +body: "I’ve watched like 10 minutes and I hate it. Peter Singer is a very controversial figure as it is, on top of that the guy in the video comes off as super condescending to me and I can’t stand watching him for longer. Me personally, I don’t think it’s “immoral” to not give money to charity. And terms like *immoral* or *evil* are usually defined by the society you live in and not some random philosopher. And I bet there are good reasons his radical ideas in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality” did not get embedded in our society yet."
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      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
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134 DENIED moderate 
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      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
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          I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
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          \n
          Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
          \n
          [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
          """
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  +body: "Charity is a way to confirm and reinforce the capitalistic oppresion of the poor by the rich. That’s why it is widely promoted by churches whose interest has always been aligned with that of the wealthy and powerful. It’s a magct trick that makes rich people look generous to the public while giving them an occasion to pretend that they are good people in a taught world"
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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Show voter details
135 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3481
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    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
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    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
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          I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
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          \n
          Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
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          [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
          """
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136 DENIED moderate 
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      \n
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      \n
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      \n
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      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
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      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
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      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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          I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
          \n
          Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
          \n
          Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
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          [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
          """
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      +body: "I’ve watched like 10 minutes and I hate it. Peter Singer is a very controversial figure as it is, on top of that the guy in the video comes off as super condescending to me and I can’t stand watching him for longer. Me personally, I don’t think it’s “immoral” to not give money to charity. And terms like *immoral* or *evil* are usually defined by the society you live in and not some random philosopher. And I bet there are good reasons his radical ideas in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality” did not get embedded in our society yet."
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Show voter details
137 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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138 DENIED moderate 
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      \n
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      \n
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      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
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      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
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      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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        I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
        \n
        Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
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        Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
        \n
        [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
        """
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    +body: "I’ve watched like 10 minutes and I hate it. Peter Singer is a very controversial figure as it is, on top of that the guy in the video comes off as super condescending to me and I can’t stand watching him for longer. Me personally, I don’t think it’s “immoral” to not give money to charity. And terms like *immoral* or *evil* are usually defined by the society you live in and not some random philosopher. And I bet there are good reasons his radical ideas in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality” did not get embedded in our society yet."
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  +body: """
    I do not take issue with anything you said (your opinion is as valid as mine) - up until your last sentence, which piqued my interest.\n
    \n
    You seem to be implying that Mr Singer’s “radical ideas” are weak, invalid, or beneath consideration because our society hasn’t embedded them yet. I would like to respond that I think the value of a radical idea cannot, and probably should not, be measured by how well society accepts it. For example, there are a some pretty famous, radical ideas from this rabbi a couple thousand years ago that have totally failed to be embedded in our society, yet his radical ideas arguably still have significant merit. I am thinking specifically of the radical idea of kindness and peace expressed in “turning the other cheek”, an idea we, as a society, have for all intents and purposes rejected.\n
    \n
    Otherwise, I would also like to remind you that the OP just asked for ideas that blew our minds. Mr Singer’s idea, when I heard it for the first time, blew mine and I thought it fit the brief.
    """
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139 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3365
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      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
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      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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        I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
        \n
        Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
        \n
        Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
        \n
        [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
        """
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    +body: "I’ve watched like 10 minutes and I hate it. Peter Singer is a very controversial figure as it is, on top of that the guy in the video comes off as super condescending to me and I can’t stand watching him for longer. Me personally, I don’t think it’s “immoral” to not give money to charity. And terms like *immoral* or *evil* are usually defined by the society you live in and not some random philosopher. And I bet there are good reasons his radical ideas in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality” did not get embedded in our society yet."
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2613}
  +body: """
    I do not take issue with anything you said (your opinion is as valid as mine) - up until your last sentence, which piqued my interest.\n
    \n
    You seem to be implying that Mr Singer’s “radical ideas” are weak, invalid, or beneath consideration because our society hasn’t embedded them yet. I would like to respond that I think the value of a radical idea cannot, and probably should not, be measured by how well society accepts it. For example, there are a some pretty famous, radical ideas from this rabbi a couple thousand years ago that have totally failed to be embedded in our society, yet his radical ideas arguably still have significant merit. I am thinking specifically of the radical idea of kindness and peace expressed in “turning the other cheek”, an idea we, as a society, have for all intents and purposes rejected.\n
    \n
    Otherwise, I would also like to remind you that the OP just asked for ideas that blew our minds. Mr Singer’s idea, when I heard it for the first time, blew mine and I thought it fit the brief.
    """
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      \n
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      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
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        I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
        \n
        Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
        \n
        Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
        \n
        [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
        """
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    +body: "I’ve watched like 10 minutes and I hate it. Peter Singer is a very controversial figure as it is, on top of that the guy in the video comes off as super condescending to me and I can’t stand watching him for longer. Me personally, I don’t think it’s “immoral” to not give money to charity. And terms like *immoral* or *evil* are usually defined by the society you live in and not some random philosopher. And I bet there are good reasons his radical ideas in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality” did not get embedded in our society yet."
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  +body: """
    I do not take issue with anything you said (your opinion is as valid as mine) - up until your last sentence, which piqued my interest.\n
    \n
    You seem to be implying that Mr Singer’s “radical ideas” are weak, invalid, or beneath consideration because our society hasn’t embedded them yet. I would like to respond that I think the value of a radical idea cannot, and probably should not, be measured by how well society accepts it. For example, there are a some pretty famous, radical ideas from this rabbi a couple thousand years ago that have totally failed to be embedded in our society, yet his radical ideas arguably still have significant merit. I am thinking specifically of the radical idea of kindness and peace expressed in “turning the other cheek”, an idea we, as a society, have for all intents and purposes rejected.\n
    \n
    Otherwise, I would also like to remind you that the OP just asked for ideas that blew our minds. Mr Singer’s idea, when I heard it for the first time, blew mine and I thought it fit the brief.
    """
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      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
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      I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
      \n
      Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
      \n
      Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
      \n
      [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
      """
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    That’s an incredibly pessimistic way to view the world… I think it’s more accurate to say that people have the capacity for both good and evil. I’m not sure that you can say that “most everyone you know” are immoral or evil. That’s quite the claim.\n
    \n
    Though we would also have to explore what “immoral,” and “evil” actually mean. Am I immoral for purchasing and using a cell phone made with materials that were obtained through means that destroy lives and damage ecosystems?\n
    \n
    The modern world is far too complex and interconnected for people to avoid doing things that could be considered immoral or unethical.
    """
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      \n
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      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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      I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
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    That’s an incredibly pessimistic way to view the world… I think it’s more accurate to say that people have the capacity for both good and evil. I’m not sure that you can say that “most everyone you know” are immoral or evil. That’s quite the claim.\n
    \n
    Though we would also have to explore what “immoral,” and “evil” actually mean. Am I immoral for purchasing and using a cell phone made with materials that were obtained through means that destroy lives and damage ecosystems?\n
    \n
    The modern world is far too complex and interconnected for people to avoid doing things that could be considered immoral or unethical.
    """
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
144 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3093
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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      I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
      \n
      Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
      \n
      Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
      \n
      [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
      """
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2613}
  +body: """
    That’s an incredibly pessimistic way to view the world… I think it’s more accurate to say that people have the capacity for both good and evil. I’m not sure that you can say that “most everyone you know” are immoral or evil. That’s quite the claim.\n
    \n
    Though we would also have to explore what “immoral,” and “evil” actually mean. Am I immoral for purchasing and using a cell phone made with materials that were obtained through means that destroy lives and damage ecosystems?\n
    \n
    The modern world is far too complex and interconnected for people to avoid doing things that could be considered immoral or unethical.
    """
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
145 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
146 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3301
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    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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        I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
        \n
        Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
        \n
        Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
        \n
        [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
        """
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        date: 2023-07-12 15:11:18.0 +02:00
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2613}
    +body: """
      That’s an incredibly pessimistic way to view the world… I think it’s more accurate to say that people have the capacity for both good and evil. I’m not sure that you can say that “most everyone you know” are immoral or evil. That’s quite the claim.\n
      \n
      Though we would also have to explore what “immoral,” and “evil” actually mean. Am I immoral for purchasing and using a cell phone made with materials that were obtained through means that destroy lives and damage ecosystems?\n
      \n
      The modern world is far too complex and interconnected for people to avoid doing things that could be considered immoral or unethical.
      """
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      date: 2023-07-12 16:22:37.0 +02:00
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2613}
  +body: "I guess we can agree on the assumption that everybody is fundamentally egoistic and focused on their personal needs, which is necessary for the survival of the species. The fact that many many people chose to take care of total strangers every day shoes there’s more to us than basic needs satisfaction. We need each other and we need to feel appreciated, which makes us gentle, generous, and caring. “Evil” is a scarecrow for children, “immoral” a tool invented by the bourgeoisie to oppress those that scare them"
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}
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
147 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3301
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3302 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2614 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
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    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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    +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2613
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      +image: null
      +parent: null
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        I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
        \n
        Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
        \n
        Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
        \n
        [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
        """
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        date: 2023-07-12 15:11:18.0 +02:00
      }
    }
    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2613}
    +body: """
      That’s an incredibly pessimistic way to view the world… I think it’s more accurate to say that people have the capacity for both good and evil. I’m not sure that you can say that “most everyone you know” are immoral or evil. That’s quite the claim.\n
      \n
      Though we would also have to explore what “immoral,” and “evil” actually mean. Am I immoral for purchasing and using a cell phone made with materials that were obtained through means that destroy lives and damage ecosystems?\n
      \n
      The modern world is far too complex and interconnected for people to avoid doing things that could be considered immoral or unethical.
      """
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      date: 2023-07-12 16:22:37.0 +02:00
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  }
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2613}
  +body: "I guess we can agree on the assumption that everybody is fundamentally egoistic and focused on their personal needs, which is necessary for the survival of the species. The fact that many many people chose to take care of total strangers every day shoes there’s more to us than basic needs satisfaction. We need each other and we need to feel appreciated, which makes us gentle, generous, and caring. “Evil” is a scarecrow for children, “immoral” a tool invented by the bourgeoisie to oppress those that scare them"
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}
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
148 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3301
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3302 …}
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  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
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    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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        I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
        \n
        Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
        \n
        Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
        \n
        [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
        """
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        date: 2023-07-12 15:11:18.0 +02:00
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2613}
    +body: """
      That’s an incredibly pessimistic way to view the world… I think it’s more accurate to say that people have the capacity for both good and evil. I’m not sure that you can say that “most everyone you know” are immoral or evil. That’s quite the claim.\n
      \n
      Though we would also have to explore what “immoral,” and “evil” actually mean. Am I immoral for purchasing and using a cell phone made with materials that were obtained through means that destroy lives and damage ecosystems?\n
      \n
      The modern world is far too complex and interconnected for people to avoid doing things that could be considered immoral or unethical.
      """
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2613}
  +body: "I guess we can agree on the assumption that everybody is fundamentally egoistic and focused on their personal needs, which is necessary for the survival of the species. The fact that many many people chose to take care of total strangers every day shoes there’s more to us than basic needs satisfaction. We need each other and we need to feel appreciated, which makes us gentle, generous, and caring. “Evil” is a scarecrow for children, “immoral” a tool invented by the bourgeoisie to oppress those that scare them"
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#3318
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      \n
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      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
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        I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
        \n
        Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
        \n
        Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
        \n
        [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
        """
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    +body: """
      That’s an incredibly pessimistic way to view the world… I think it’s more accurate to say that people have the capacity for both good and evil. I’m not sure that you can say that “most everyone you know” are immoral or evil. That’s quite the claim.\n
      \n
      Though we would also have to explore what “immoral,” and “evil” actually mean. Am I immoral for purchasing and using a cell phone made with materials that were obtained through means that destroy lives and damage ecosystems?\n
      \n
      The modern world is far too complex and interconnected for people to avoid doing things that could be considered immoral or unethical.
      """
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2613}
  +body: """
    > That’s quite the claim.\n
    \n
    **Yes**, it is, and as explained in the video the original author (and also the person explaining it) *admit* it is quite a claim, then proceed to demonstrate the veracity of the claim. I suggest you grab a cup of jo, settle in, and watch it. It addresses the points you bring up *directly*.\n
    \n
    [EDIT: Re: Quite a Claim: Yes, and thus fitting the OP’s “mind-blowing” criteria for the thread :-)]\n
    \n
    The *very* short answer to “are you immoral for purchasing a cell phone” is “*probably* yes”.\n
    \n
    The proposition is not an easy one (it accepts it is extreme), but it is hard to deny when you march down the logic.
    """
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Show voter details
151 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3318
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
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      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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      +body: """
        I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
        \n
        Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
        \n
        Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
        \n
        [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
        """
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2613}
    +body: """
      That’s an incredibly pessimistic way to view the world… I think it’s more accurate to say that people have the capacity for both good and evil. I’m not sure that you can say that “most everyone you know” are immoral or evil. That’s quite the claim.\n
      \n
      Though we would also have to explore what “immoral,” and “evil” actually mean. Am I immoral for purchasing and using a cell phone made with materials that were obtained through means that destroy lives and damage ecosystems?\n
      \n
      The modern world is far too complex and interconnected for people to avoid doing things that could be considered immoral or unethical.
      """
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2613}
  +body: """
    > That’s quite the claim.\n
    \n
    **Yes**, it is, and as explained in the video the original author (and also the person explaining it) *admit* it is quite a claim, then proceed to demonstrate the veracity of the claim. I suggest you grab a cup of jo, settle in, and watch it. It addresses the points you bring up *directly*.\n
    \n
    [EDIT: Re: Quite a Claim: Yes, and thus fitting the OP’s “mind-blowing” criteria for the thread :-)]\n
    \n
    The *very* short answer to “are you immoral for purchasing a cell phone” is “*probably* yes”.\n
    \n
    The proposition is not an easy one (it accepts it is extreme), but it is hard to deny when you march down the logic.
    """
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Show voter details
152 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3318
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      \n
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      \n
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      \n
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      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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        I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
        \n
        Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
        \n
        Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
        \n
        [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
        """
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      That’s an incredibly pessimistic way to view the world… I think it’s more accurate to say that people have the capacity for both good and evil. I’m not sure that you can say that “most everyone you know” are immoral or evil. That’s quite the claim.\n
      \n
      Though we would also have to explore what “immoral,” and “evil” actually mean. Am I immoral for purchasing and using a cell phone made with materials that were obtained through means that destroy lives and damage ecosystems?\n
      \n
      The modern world is far too complex and interconnected for people to avoid doing things that could be considered immoral or unethical.
      """
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    > That’s quite the claim.\n
    \n
    **Yes**, it is, and as explained in the video the original author (and also the person explaining it) *admit* it is quite a claim, then proceed to demonstrate the veracity of the claim. I suggest you grab a cup of jo, settle in, and watch it. It addresses the points you bring up *directly*.\n
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    [EDIT: Re: Quite a Claim: Yes, and thus fitting the OP’s “mind-blowing” criteria for the thread :-)]\n
    \n
    The *very* short answer to “are you immoral for purchasing a cell phone” is “*probably* yes”.\n
    \n
    The proposition is not an easy one (it accepts it is extreme), but it is hard to deny when you march down the logic.
    """
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Show voter details
153 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
154 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3435
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    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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          I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
          \n
          Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
          \n
          Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
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          [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
          """
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        That’s an incredibly pessimistic way to view the world… I think it’s more accurate to say that people have the capacity for both good and evil. I’m not sure that you can say that “most everyone you know” are immoral or evil. That’s quite the claim.\n
        \n
        Though we would also have to explore what “immoral,” and “evil” actually mean. Am I immoral for purchasing and using a cell phone made with materials that were obtained through means that destroy lives and damage ecosystems?\n
        \n
        The modern world is far too complex and interconnected for people to avoid doing things that could be considered immoral or unethical.
        """
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    +body: """
      > That’s quite the claim.\n
      \n
      **Yes**, it is, and as explained in the video the original author (and also the person explaining it) *admit* it is quite a claim, then proceed to demonstrate the veracity of the claim. I suggest you grab a cup of jo, settle in, and watch it. It addresses the points you bring up *directly*.\n
      \n
      [EDIT: Re: Quite a Claim: Yes, and thus fitting the OP’s “mind-blowing” criteria for the thread :-)]\n
      \n
      The *very* short answer to “are you immoral for purchasing a cell phone” is “*probably* yes”.\n
      \n
      The proposition is not an easy one (it accepts it is extreme), but it is hard to deny when you march down the logic.
      """
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2613}
  +body: "Right. And it necessarily follows from that that all humans are therefore immoral. And if that’s the case, there is no longer any utility to the term “immoral.” It becomes a pointless exercise."
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}
 
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Show voter details
155 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3435
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    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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    +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#3093
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        +body: """
          I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
          \n
          Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
          \n
          Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
          \n
          [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
          """
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      +body: """
        That’s an incredibly pessimistic way to view the world… I think it’s more accurate to say that people have the capacity for both good and evil. I’m not sure that you can say that “most everyone you know” are immoral or evil. That’s quite the claim.\n
        \n
        Though we would also have to explore what “immoral,” and “evil” actually mean. Am I immoral for purchasing and using a cell phone made with materials that were obtained through means that destroy lives and damage ecosystems?\n
        \n
        The modern world is far too complex and interconnected for people to avoid doing things that could be considered immoral or unethical.
        """
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        date: 2023-07-12 16:22:37.0 +02:00
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2613}
    +body: """
      > That’s quite the claim.\n
      \n
      **Yes**, it is, and as explained in the video the original author (and also the person explaining it) *admit* it is quite a claim, then proceed to demonstrate the veracity of the claim. I suggest you grab a cup of jo, settle in, and watch it. It addresses the points you bring up *directly*.\n
      \n
      [EDIT: Re: Quite a Claim: Yes, and thus fitting the OP’s “mind-blowing” criteria for the thread :-)]\n
      \n
      The *very* short answer to “are you immoral for purchasing a cell phone” is “*probably* yes”.\n
      \n
      The proposition is not an easy one (it accepts it is extreme), but it is hard to deny when you march down the logic.
      """
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  +body: "Right. And it necessarily follows from that that all humans are therefore immoral. And if that’s the case, there is no longer any utility to the term “immoral.” It becomes a pointless exercise."
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}
 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
156 DENIED moderate 
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    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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          I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
          \n
          Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
          \n
          Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
          \n
          [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
          """
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        That’s an incredibly pessimistic way to view the world… I think it’s more accurate to say that people have the capacity for both good and evil. I’m not sure that you can say that “most everyone you know” are immoral or evil. That’s quite the claim.\n
        \n
        Though we would also have to explore what “immoral,” and “evil” actually mean. Am I immoral for purchasing and using a cell phone made with materials that were obtained through means that destroy lives and damage ecosystems?\n
        \n
        The modern world is far too complex and interconnected for people to avoid doing things that could be considered immoral or unethical.
        """
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      > That’s quite the claim.\n
      \n
      **Yes**, it is, and as explained in the video the original author (and also the person explaining it) *admit* it is quite a claim, then proceed to demonstrate the veracity of the claim. I suggest you grab a cup of jo, settle in, and watch it. It addresses the points you bring up *directly*.\n
      \n
      [EDIT: Re: Quite a Claim: Yes, and thus fitting the OP’s “mind-blowing” criteria for the thread :-)]\n
      \n
      The *very* short answer to “are you immoral for purchasing a cell phone” is “*probably* yes”.\n
      \n
      The proposition is not an easy one (it accepts it is extreme), but it is hard to deny when you march down the logic.
      """
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  +body: "Right. And it necessarily follows from that that all humans are therefore immoral. And if that’s the case, there is no longer any utility to the term “immoral.” It becomes a pointless exercise."
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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            I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
            \n
            Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
            \n
            Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
            \n
            [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
            """
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        +body: """
          That’s an incredibly pessimistic way to view the world… I think it’s more accurate to say that people have the capacity for both good and evil. I’m not sure that you can say that “most everyone you know” are immoral or evil. That’s quite the claim.\n
          \n
          Though we would also have to explore what “immoral,” and “evil” actually mean. Am I immoral for purchasing and using a cell phone made with materials that were obtained through means that destroy lives and damage ecosystems?\n
          \n
          The modern world is far too complex and interconnected for people to avoid doing things that could be considered immoral or unethical.
          """
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        > That’s quite the claim.\n
        \n
        **Yes**, it is, and as explained in the video the original author (and also the person explaining it) *admit* it is quite a claim, then proceed to demonstrate the veracity of the claim. I suggest you grab a cup of jo, settle in, and watch it. It addresses the points you bring up *directly*.\n
        \n
        [EDIT: Re: Quite a Claim: Yes, and thus fitting the OP’s “mind-blowing” criteria for the thread :-)]\n
        \n
        The *very* short answer to “are you immoral for purchasing a cell phone” is “*probably* yes”.\n
        \n
        The proposition is not an easy one (it accepts it is extreme), but it is hard to deny when you march down the logic.
        """
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    +body: "Right. And it necessarily follows from that that all humans are therefore immoral. And if that’s the case, there is no longer any utility to the term “immoral.” It becomes a pointless exercise."
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  +body: """
    You’ve committed *reductio ad absurdum*.\n
    \n
    Yes, most people are *probably* acting immorally and they are not even aware of it.\n
    \n
    That doesn’t mean it is *a pointless exercise* to identify the immoral behavior and *strive* to reduce or eliminate it, even if it is impossible to completely do so.
    """
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Show voter details
159 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3520
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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    +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#3318
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      +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#3093
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          +body: """
            I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
            \n
            Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
            \n
            Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
            \n
            [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
            """
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        +body: """
          That’s an incredibly pessimistic way to view the world… I think it’s more accurate to say that people have the capacity for both good and evil. I’m not sure that you can say that “most everyone you know” are immoral or evil. That’s quite the claim.\n
          \n
          Though we would also have to explore what “immoral,” and “evil” actually mean. Am I immoral for purchasing and using a cell phone made with materials that were obtained through means that destroy lives and damage ecosystems?\n
          \n
          The modern world is far too complex and interconnected for people to avoid doing things that could be considered immoral or unethical.
          """
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      +body: """
        > That’s quite the claim.\n
        \n
        **Yes**, it is, and as explained in the video the original author (and also the person explaining it) *admit* it is quite a claim, then proceed to demonstrate the veracity of the claim. I suggest you grab a cup of jo, settle in, and watch it. It addresses the points you bring up *directly*.\n
        \n
        [EDIT: Re: Quite a Claim: Yes, and thus fitting the OP’s “mind-blowing” criteria for the thread :-)]\n
        \n
        The *very* short answer to “are you immoral for purchasing a cell phone” is “*probably* yes”.\n
        \n
        The proposition is not an easy one (it accepts it is extreme), but it is hard to deny when you march down the logic.
        """
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    +body: "Right. And it necessarily follows from that that all humans are therefore immoral. And if that’s the case, there is no longer any utility to the term “immoral.” It becomes a pointless exercise."
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2613}
  +body: """
    You’ve committed *reductio ad absurdum*.\n
    \n
    Yes, most people are *probably* acting immorally and they are not even aware of it.\n
    \n
    That doesn’t mean it is *a pointless exercise* to identify the immoral behavior and *strive* to reduce or eliminate it, even if it is impossible to completely do so.
    """
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Show voter details
160 DENIED moderate 
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    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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            I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
            \n
            Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
            \n
            Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
            \n
            [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
            """
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          That’s an incredibly pessimistic way to view the world… I think it’s more accurate to say that people have the capacity for both good and evil. I’m not sure that you can say that “most everyone you know” are immoral or evil. That’s quite the claim.\n
          \n
          Though we would also have to explore what “immoral,” and “evil” actually mean. Am I immoral for purchasing and using a cell phone made with materials that were obtained through means that destroy lives and damage ecosystems?\n
          \n
          The modern world is far too complex and interconnected for people to avoid doing things that could be considered immoral or unethical.
          """
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        > That’s quite the claim.\n
        \n
        **Yes**, it is, and as explained in the video the original author (and also the person explaining it) *admit* it is quite a claim, then proceed to demonstrate the veracity of the claim. I suggest you grab a cup of jo, settle in, and watch it. It addresses the points you bring up *directly*.\n
        \n
        [EDIT: Re: Quite a Claim: Yes, and thus fitting the OP’s “mind-blowing” criteria for the thread :-)]\n
        \n
        The *very* short answer to “are you immoral for purchasing a cell phone” is “*probably* yes”.\n
        \n
        The proposition is not an easy one (it accepts it is extreme), but it is hard to deny when you march down the logic.
        """
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    +body: "Right. And it necessarily follows from that that all humans are therefore immoral. And if that’s the case, there is no longer any utility to the term “immoral.” It becomes a pointless exercise."
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    You’ve committed *reductio ad absurdum*.\n
    \n
    Yes, most people are *probably* acting immorally and they are not even aware of it.\n
    \n
    That doesn’t mean it is *a pointless exercise* to identify the immoral behavior and *strive* to reduce or eliminate it, even if it is impossible to completely do so.
    """
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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              I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
              \n
              Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
              \n
              Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
              \n
              [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
              """
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          +body: """
            That’s an incredibly pessimistic way to view the world… I think it’s more accurate to say that people have the capacity for both good and evil. I’m not sure that you can say that “most everyone you know” are immoral or evil. That’s quite the claim.\n
            \n
            Though we would also have to explore what “immoral,” and “evil” actually mean. Am I immoral for purchasing and using a cell phone made with materials that were obtained through means that destroy lives and damage ecosystems?\n
            \n
            The modern world is far too complex and interconnected for people to avoid doing things that could be considered immoral or unethical.
            """
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        +body: """
          > That’s quite the claim.\n
          \n
          **Yes**, it is, and as explained in the video the original author (and also the person explaining it) *admit* it is quite a claim, then proceed to demonstrate the veracity of the claim. I suggest you grab a cup of jo, settle in, and watch it. It addresses the points you bring up *directly*.\n
          \n
          [EDIT: Re: Quite a Claim: Yes, and thus fitting the OP’s “mind-blowing” criteria for the thread :-)]\n
          \n
          The *very* short answer to “are you immoral for purchasing a cell phone” is “*probably* yes”.\n
          \n
          The proposition is not an easy one (it accepts it is extreme), but it is hard to deny when you march down the logic.
          """
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      +body: "Right. And it necessarily follows from that that all humans are therefore immoral. And if that’s the case, there is no longer any utility to the term “immoral.” It becomes a pointless exercise."
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      You’ve committed *reductio ad absurdum*.\n
      \n
      Yes, most people are *probably* acting immorally and they are not even aware of it.\n
      \n
      That doesn’t mean it is *a pointless exercise* to identify the immoral behavior and *strive* to reduce or eliminate it, even if it is impossible to completely do so.
      """
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  +body: "Not most people. Literally every person. Or maybe you could give me an example of a person that wouldn’t be considered immoral by your metric?"
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
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      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
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      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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            +body: """
              I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
              \n
              Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
              \n
              Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
              \n
              [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
              """
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            That’s an incredibly pessimistic way to view the world… I think it’s more accurate to say that people have the capacity for both good and evil. I’m not sure that you can say that “most everyone you know” are immoral or evil. That’s quite the claim.\n
            \n
            Though we would also have to explore what “immoral,” and “evil” actually mean. Am I immoral for purchasing and using a cell phone made with materials that were obtained through means that destroy lives and damage ecosystems?\n
            \n
            The modern world is far too complex and interconnected for people to avoid doing things that could be considered immoral or unethical.
            """
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          > That’s quite the claim.\n
          \n
          **Yes**, it is, and as explained in the video the original author (and also the person explaining it) *admit* it is quite a claim, then proceed to demonstrate the veracity of the claim. I suggest you grab a cup of jo, settle in, and watch it. It addresses the points you bring up *directly*.\n
          \n
          [EDIT: Re: Quite a Claim: Yes, and thus fitting the OP’s “mind-blowing” criteria for the thread :-)]\n
          \n
          The *very* short answer to “are you immoral for purchasing a cell phone” is “*probably* yes”.\n
          \n
          The proposition is not an easy one (it accepts it is extreme), but it is hard to deny when you march down the logic.
          """
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      +body: "Right. And it necessarily follows from that that all humans are therefore immoral. And if that’s the case, there is no longer any utility to the term “immoral.” It becomes a pointless exercise."
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      You’ve committed *reductio ad absurdum*.\n
      \n
      Yes, most people are *probably* acting immorally and they are not even aware of it.\n
      \n
      That doesn’t mean it is *a pointless exercise* to identify the immoral behavior and *strive* to reduce or eliminate it, even if it is impossible to completely do so.
      """
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  +body: "Not most people. Literally every person. Or maybe you could give me an example of a person that wouldn’t be considered immoral by your metric?"
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      \n
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      \n
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      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
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      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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              I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
              \n
              Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
              \n
              Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
              \n
              [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
              """
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            That’s an incredibly pessimistic way to view the world… I think it’s more accurate to say that people have the capacity for both good and evil. I’m not sure that you can say that “most everyone you know” are immoral or evil. That’s quite the claim.\n
            \n
            Though we would also have to explore what “immoral,” and “evil” actually mean. Am I immoral for purchasing and using a cell phone made with materials that were obtained through means that destroy lives and damage ecosystems?\n
            \n
            The modern world is far too complex and interconnected for people to avoid doing things that could be considered immoral or unethical.
            """
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          > That’s quite the claim.\n
          \n
          **Yes**, it is, and as explained in the video the original author (and also the person explaining it) *admit* it is quite a claim, then proceed to demonstrate the veracity of the claim. I suggest you grab a cup of jo, settle in, and watch it. It addresses the points you bring up *directly*.\n
          \n
          [EDIT: Re: Quite a Claim: Yes, and thus fitting the OP’s “mind-blowing” criteria for the thread :-)]\n
          \n
          The *very* short answer to “are you immoral for purchasing a cell phone” is “*probably* yes”.\n
          \n
          The proposition is not an easy one (it accepts it is extreme), but it is hard to deny when you march down the logic.
          """
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      +body: "Right. And it necessarily follows from that that all humans are therefore immoral. And if that’s the case, there is no longer any utility to the term “immoral.” It becomes a pointless exercise."
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      You’ve committed *reductio ad absurdum*.\n
      \n
      Yes, most people are *probably* acting immorally and they are not even aware of it.\n
      \n
      That doesn’t mean it is *a pointless exercise* to identify the immoral behavior and *strive* to reduce or eliminate it, even if it is impossible to completely do so.
      """
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  +body: "Not most people. Literally every person. Or maybe you could give me an example of a person that wouldn’t be considered immoral by your metric?"
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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              +body: """
                I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
                \n
                Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
                \n
                Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
                \n
                [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
                """
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              That’s an incredibly pessimistic way to view the world… I think it’s more accurate to say that people have the capacity for both good and evil. I’m not sure that you can say that “most everyone you know” are immoral or evil. That’s quite the claim.\n
              \n
              Though we would also have to explore what “immoral,” and “evil” actually mean. Am I immoral for purchasing and using a cell phone made with materials that were obtained through means that destroy lives and damage ecosystems?\n
              \n
              The modern world is far too complex and interconnected for people to avoid doing things that could be considered immoral or unethical.
              """
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          +body: """
            > That’s quite the claim.\n
            \n
            **Yes**, it is, and as explained in the video the original author (and also the person explaining it) *admit* it is quite a claim, then proceed to demonstrate the veracity of the claim. I suggest you grab a cup of jo, settle in, and watch it. It addresses the points you bring up *directly*.\n
            \n
            [EDIT: Re: Quite a Claim: Yes, and thus fitting the OP’s “mind-blowing” criteria for the thread :-)]\n
            \n
            The *very* short answer to “are you immoral for purchasing a cell phone” is “*probably* yes”.\n
            \n
            The proposition is not an easy one (it accepts it is extreme), but it is hard to deny when you march down the logic.
            """
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        +body: "Right. And it necessarily follows from that that all humans are therefore immoral. And if that’s the case, there is no longer any utility to the term “immoral.” It becomes a pointless exercise."
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        You’ve committed *reductio ad absurdum*.\n
        \n
        Yes, most people are *probably* acting immorally and they are not even aware of it.\n
        \n
        That doesn’t mean it is *a pointless exercise* to identify the immoral behavior and *strive* to reduce or eliminate it, even if it is impossible to completely do so.
        """
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    +body: "Not most people. Literally every person. Or maybe you could give me an example of a person that wouldn’t be considered immoral by your metric?"
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  +body: """
    You are (deliberately?) skipping over the part of *awareness*.\n
    \n
    Take for example a person who is aware that they cannot act morally when making seemingly normal, banal decisions. For example, they may be aware that when they choose to buy a shiny new cell phone when they have an older-but-still-perfectly-working model, they *very likely* doing something immoral. Because they are aware of the moral implications of their choice, they can choose hold-off buying a new phone for as long as possible (a morally-positive choice) and *perhaps* - going a step further - even using that money they would have spent on a new phone to help another person in need directly.\n
    \n
    *Most* people probably don’t contemplate the moral implications of the purchase of a new phone, *this is true* and I accept your position this. But it is clearly not “literally every person” as you have said, since it only takes a single person with awareness to disprove your statement. I am certain *at least* one such person exists (even if anecdotally), so I rely on the word “most” rather than “literally every”.
    """
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
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      1. Open-ended\n
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      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
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      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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              +body: """
                I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
                \n
                Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
                \n
                Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
                \n
                [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
                """
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            +body: """
              That’s an incredibly pessimistic way to view the world… I think it’s more accurate to say that people have the capacity for both good and evil. I’m not sure that you can say that “most everyone you know” are immoral or evil. That’s quite the claim.\n
              \n
              Though we would also have to explore what “immoral,” and “evil” actually mean. Am I immoral for purchasing and using a cell phone made with materials that were obtained through means that destroy lives and damage ecosystems?\n
              \n
              The modern world is far too complex and interconnected for people to avoid doing things that could be considered immoral or unethical.
              """
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          +body: """
            > That’s quite the claim.\n
            \n
            **Yes**, it is, and as explained in the video the original author (and also the person explaining it) *admit* it is quite a claim, then proceed to demonstrate the veracity of the claim. I suggest you grab a cup of jo, settle in, and watch it. It addresses the points you bring up *directly*.\n
            \n
            [EDIT: Re: Quite a Claim: Yes, and thus fitting the OP’s “mind-blowing” criteria for the thread :-)]\n
            \n
            The *very* short answer to “are you immoral for purchasing a cell phone” is “*probably* yes”.\n
            \n
            The proposition is not an easy one (it accepts it is extreme), but it is hard to deny when you march down the logic.
            """
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        +body: "Right. And it necessarily follows from that that all humans are therefore immoral. And if that’s the case, there is no longer any utility to the term “immoral.” It becomes a pointless exercise."
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        You’ve committed *reductio ad absurdum*.\n
        \n
        Yes, most people are *probably* acting immorally and they are not even aware of it.\n
        \n
        That doesn’t mean it is *a pointless exercise* to identify the immoral behavior and *strive* to reduce or eliminate it, even if it is impossible to completely do so.
        """
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    +body: "Not most people. Literally every person. Or maybe you could give me an example of a person that wouldn’t be considered immoral by your metric?"
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    You are (deliberately?) skipping over the part of *awareness*.\n
    \n
    Take for example a person who is aware that they cannot act morally when making seemingly normal, banal decisions. For example, they may be aware that when they choose to buy a shiny new cell phone when they have an older-but-still-perfectly-working model, they *very likely* doing something immoral. Because they are aware of the moral implications of their choice, they can choose hold-off buying a new phone for as long as possible (a morally-positive choice) and *perhaps* - going a step further - even using that money they would have spent on a new phone to help another person in need directly.\n
    \n
    *Most* people probably don’t contemplate the moral implications of the purchase of a new phone, *this is true* and I accept your position this. But it is clearly not “literally every person” as you have said, since it only takes a single person with awareness to disprove your statement. I am certain *at least* one such person exists (even if anecdotally), so I rely on the word “most” rather than “literally every”.
    """
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
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      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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              +body: """
                I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
                \n
                Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
                \n
                Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
                \n
                [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
                """
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              That’s an incredibly pessimistic way to view the world… I think it’s more accurate to say that people have the capacity for both good and evil. I’m not sure that you can say that “most everyone you know” are immoral or evil. That’s quite the claim.\n
              \n
              Though we would also have to explore what “immoral,” and “evil” actually mean. Am I immoral for purchasing and using a cell phone made with materials that were obtained through means that destroy lives and damage ecosystems?\n
              \n
              The modern world is far too complex and interconnected for people to avoid doing things that could be considered immoral or unethical.
              """
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              date: 2023-07-12 16:22:37.0 +02:00
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          +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2613}
          +body: """
            > That’s quite the claim.\n
            \n
            **Yes**, it is, and as explained in the video the original author (and also the person explaining it) *admit* it is quite a claim, then proceed to demonstrate the veracity of the claim. I suggest you grab a cup of jo, settle in, and watch it. It addresses the points you bring up *directly*.\n
            \n
            [EDIT: Re: Quite a Claim: Yes, and thus fitting the OP’s “mind-blowing” criteria for the thread :-)]\n
            \n
            The *very* short answer to “are you immoral for purchasing a cell phone” is “*probably* yes”.\n
            \n
            The proposition is not an easy one (it accepts it is extreme), but it is hard to deny when you march down the logic.
            """
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        +body: "Right. And it necessarily follows from that that all humans are therefore immoral. And if that’s the case, there is no longer any utility to the term “immoral.” It becomes a pointless exercise."
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        You’ve committed *reductio ad absurdum*.\n
        \n
        Yes, most people are *probably* acting immorally and they are not even aware of it.\n
        \n
        That doesn’t mean it is *a pointless exercise* to identify the immoral behavior and *strive* to reduce or eliminate it, even if it is impossible to completely do so.
        """
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    +body: "Not most people. Literally every person. Or maybe you could give me an example of a person that wouldn’t be considered immoral by your metric?"
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  +body: """
    You are (deliberately?) skipping over the part of *awareness*.\n
    \n
    Take for example a person who is aware that they cannot act morally when making seemingly normal, banal decisions. For example, they may be aware that when they choose to buy a shiny new cell phone when they have an older-but-still-perfectly-working model, they *very likely* doing something immoral. Because they are aware of the moral implications of their choice, they can choose hold-off buying a new phone for as long as possible (a morally-positive choice) and *perhaps* - going a step further - even using that money they would have spent on a new phone to help another person in need directly.\n
    \n
    *Most* people probably don’t contemplate the moral implications of the purchase of a new phone, *this is true* and I accept your position this. But it is clearly not “literally every person” as you have said, since it only takes a single person with awareness to disprove your statement. I am certain *at least* one such person exists (even if anecdotally), so I rely on the word “most” rather than “literally every”.
    """
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
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      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
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      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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                +body: """
                  I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
                  \n
                  Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
                  \n
                  Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
                  \n
                  [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
                  """
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              +body: """
                That’s an incredibly pessimistic way to view the world… I think it’s more accurate to say that people have the capacity for both good and evil. I’m not sure that you can say that “most everyone you know” are immoral or evil. That’s quite the claim.\n
                \n
                Though we would also have to explore what “immoral,” and “evil” actually mean. Am I immoral for purchasing and using a cell phone made with materials that were obtained through means that destroy lives and damage ecosystems?\n
                \n
                The modern world is far too complex and interconnected for people to avoid doing things that could be considered immoral or unethical.
                """
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            +body: """
              > That’s quite the claim.\n
              \n
              **Yes**, it is, and as explained in the video the original author (and also the person explaining it) *admit* it is quite a claim, then proceed to demonstrate the veracity of the claim. I suggest you grab a cup of jo, settle in, and watch it. It addresses the points you bring up *directly*.\n
              \n
              [EDIT: Re: Quite a Claim: Yes, and thus fitting the OP’s “mind-blowing” criteria for the thread :-)]\n
              \n
              The *very* short answer to “are you immoral for purchasing a cell phone” is “*probably* yes”.\n
              \n
              The proposition is not an easy one (it accepts it is extreme), but it is hard to deny when you march down the logic.
              """
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          +body: "Right. And it necessarily follows from that that all humans are therefore immoral. And if that’s the case, there is no longer any utility to the term “immoral.” It becomes a pointless exercise."
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          You’ve committed *reductio ad absurdum*.\n
          \n
          Yes, most people are *probably* acting immorally and they are not even aware of it.\n
          \n
          That doesn’t mean it is *a pointless exercise* to identify the immoral behavior and *strive* to reduce or eliminate it, even if it is impossible to completely do so.
          """
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      +body: "Not most people. Literally every person. Or maybe you could give me an example of a person that wouldn’t be considered immoral by your metric?"
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      You are (deliberately?) skipping over the part of *awareness*.\n
      \n
      Take for example a person who is aware that they cannot act morally when making seemingly normal, banal decisions. For example, they may be aware that when they choose to buy a shiny new cell phone when they have an older-but-still-perfectly-working model, they *very likely* doing something immoral. Because they are aware of the moral implications of their choice, they can choose hold-off buying a new phone for as long as possible (a morally-positive choice) and *perhaps* - going a step further - even using that money they would have spent on a new phone to help another person in need directly.\n
      \n
      *Most* people probably don’t contemplate the moral implications of the purchase of a new phone, *this is true* and I accept your position this. But it is clearly not “literally every person” as you have said, since it only takes a single person with awareness to disprove your statement. I am certain *at least* one such person exists (even if anecdotally), so I rely on the word “most” rather than “literally every”.
      """
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    Ok, but buying a cell phone isn’t the only potentially immoral choice made by people regularly, it’s just one example. Modern life is a minefield with this stuff, and I’m incapable of imagining a person in modern society who is capable of avoiding every single one of these pitfalls. Hell, it could probably be argued that even existing on this dying planet could be considered immoral or unethical. Again, maybe I’m wrong and you could think of one. Maybe some ascetic living on the street in India?\n
    \n
    Also, I don’t really agree that awareness is even relevant. You can do immoral things without being aware that the thing you’re doing could be considered immoral. The thing itself is still immoral.\n
    \n
    Which was kind of my point; that it’s impossible to avoid in a modern, interconnected world. I probably did a dozen immoral things before breakfast this morning.
    """
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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                +body: """
                  I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
                  \n
                  Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
                  \n
                  Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
                  \n
                  [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
                  """
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                That’s an incredibly pessimistic way to view the world… I think it’s more accurate to say that people have the capacity for both good and evil. I’m not sure that you can say that “most everyone you know” are immoral or evil. That’s quite the claim.\n
                \n
                Though we would also have to explore what “immoral,” and “evil” actually mean. Am I immoral for purchasing and using a cell phone made with materials that were obtained through means that destroy lives and damage ecosystems?\n
                \n
                The modern world is far too complex and interconnected for people to avoid doing things that could be considered immoral or unethical.
                """
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                date: 2023-07-12 16:22:37.0 +02:00
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            +body: """
              > That’s quite the claim.\n
              \n
              **Yes**, it is, and as explained in the video the original author (and also the person explaining it) *admit* it is quite a claim, then proceed to demonstrate the veracity of the claim. I suggest you grab a cup of jo, settle in, and watch it. It addresses the points you bring up *directly*.\n
              \n
              [EDIT: Re: Quite a Claim: Yes, and thus fitting the OP’s “mind-blowing” criteria for the thread :-)]\n
              \n
              The *very* short answer to “are you immoral for purchasing a cell phone” is “*probably* yes”.\n
              \n
              The proposition is not an easy one (it accepts it is extreme), but it is hard to deny when you march down the logic.
              """
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          +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2613}
          +body: "Right. And it necessarily follows from that that all humans are therefore immoral. And if that’s the case, there is no longer any utility to the term “immoral.” It becomes a pointless exercise."
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          You’ve committed *reductio ad absurdum*.\n
          \n
          Yes, most people are *probably* acting immorally and they are not even aware of it.\n
          \n
          That doesn’t mean it is *a pointless exercise* to identify the immoral behavior and *strive* to reduce or eliminate it, even if it is impossible to completely do so.
          """
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      +body: "Not most people. Literally every person. Or maybe you could give me an example of a person that wouldn’t be considered immoral by your metric?"
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    +body: """
      You are (deliberately?) skipping over the part of *awareness*.\n
      \n
      Take for example a person who is aware that they cannot act morally when making seemingly normal, banal decisions. For example, they may be aware that when they choose to buy a shiny new cell phone when they have an older-but-still-perfectly-working model, they *very likely* doing something immoral. Because they are aware of the moral implications of their choice, they can choose hold-off buying a new phone for as long as possible (a morally-positive choice) and *perhaps* - going a step further - even using that money they would have spent on a new phone to help another person in need directly.\n
      \n
      *Most* people probably don’t contemplate the moral implications of the purchase of a new phone, *this is true* and I accept your position this. But it is clearly not “literally every person” as you have said, since it only takes a single person with awareness to disprove your statement. I am certain *at least* one such person exists (even if anecdotally), so I rely on the word “most” rather than “literally every”.
      """
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    Ok, but buying a cell phone isn’t the only potentially immoral choice made by people regularly, it’s just one example. Modern life is a minefield with this stuff, and I’m incapable of imagining a person in modern society who is capable of avoiding every single one of these pitfalls. Hell, it could probably be argued that even existing on this dying planet could be considered immoral or unethical. Again, maybe I’m wrong and you could think of one. Maybe some ascetic living on the street in India?\n
    \n
    Also, I don’t really agree that awareness is even relevant. You can do immoral things without being aware that the thing you’re doing could be considered immoral. The thing itself is still immoral.\n
    \n
    Which was kind of my point; that it’s impossible to avoid in a modern, interconnected world. I probably did a dozen immoral things before breakfast this morning.
    """
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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                +body: """
                  I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
                  \n
                  Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
                  \n
                  Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
                  \n
                  [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
                  """
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              +body: """
                That’s an incredibly pessimistic way to view the world… I think it’s more accurate to say that people have the capacity for both good and evil. I’m not sure that you can say that “most everyone you know” are immoral or evil. That’s quite the claim.\n
                \n
                Though we would also have to explore what “immoral,” and “evil” actually mean. Am I immoral for purchasing and using a cell phone made with materials that were obtained through means that destroy lives and damage ecosystems?\n
                \n
                The modern world is far too complex and interconnected for people to avoid doing things that could be considered immoral or unethical.
                """
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                date: 2023-07-12 16:22:37.0 +02:00
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            +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2613}
            +body: """
              > That’s quite the claim.\n
              \n
              **Yes**, it is, and as explained in the video the original author (and also the person explaining it) *admit* it is quite a claim, then proceed to demonstrate the veracity of the claim. I suggest you grab a cup of jo, settle in, and watch it. It addresses the points you bring up *directly*.\n
              \n
              [EDIT: Re: Quite a Claim: Yes, and thus fitting the OP’s “mind-blowing” criteria for the thread :-)]\n
              \n
              The *very* short answer to “are you immoral for purchasing a cell phone” is “*probably* yes”.\n
              \n
              The proposition is not an easy one (it accepts it is extreme), but it is hard to deny when you march down the logic.
              """
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          +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2613}
          +body: "Right. And it necessarily follows from that that all humans are therefore immoral. And if that’s the case, there is no longer any utility to the term “immoral.” It becomes a pointless exercise."
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          You’ve committed *reductio ad absurdum*.\n
          \n
          Yes, most people are *probably* acting immorally and they are not even aware of it.\n
          \n
          That doesn’t mean it is *a pointless exercise* to identify the immoral behavior and *strive* to reduce or eliminate it, even if it is impossible to completely do so.
          """
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      +body: "Not most people. Literally every person. Or maybe you could give me an example of a person that wouldn’t be considered immoral by your metric?"
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    +body: """
      You are (deliberately?) skipping over the part of *awareness*.\n
      \n
      Take for example a person who is aware that they cannot act morally when making seemingly normal, banal decisions. For example, they may be aware that when they choose to buy a shiny new cell phone when they have an older-but-still-perfectly-working model, they *very likely* doing something immoral. Because they are aware of the moral implications of their choice, they can choose hold-off buying a new phone for as long as possible (a morally-positive choice) and *perhaps* - going a step further - even using that money they would have spent on a new phone to help another person in need directly.\n
      \n
      *Most* people probably don’t contemplate the moral implications of the purchase of a new phone, *this is true* and I accept your position this. But it is clearly not “literally every person” as you have said, since it only takes a single person with awareness to disprove your statement. I am certain *at least* one such person exists (even if anecdotally), so I rely on the word “most” rather than “literally every”.
      """
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    Ok, but buying a cell phone isn’t the only potentially immoral choice made by people regularly, it’s just one example. Modern life is a minefield with this stuff, and I’m incapable of imagining a person in modern society who is capable of avoiding every single one of these pitfalls. Hell, it could probably be argued that even existing on this dying planet could be considered immoral or unethical. Again, maybe I’m wrong and you could think of one. Maybe some ascetic living on the street in India?\n
    \n
    Also, I don’t really agree that awareness is even relevant. You can do immoral things without being aware that the thing you’re doing could be considered immoral. The thing itself is still immoral.\n
    \n
    Which was kind of my point; that it’s impossible to avoid in a modern, interconnected world. I probably did a dozen immoral things before breakfast this morning.
    """
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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                  +body: """
                    I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
                    \n
                    Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
                    \n
                    Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
                    \n
                    [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
                    """
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                    date: 2023-07-12 15:11:18.0 +02:00
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                +body: """
                  That’s an incredibly pessimistic way to view the world… I think it’s more accurate to say that people have the capacity for both good and evil. I’m not sure that you can say that “most everyone you know” are immoral or evil. That’s quite the claim.\n
                  \n
                  Though we would also have to explore what “immoral,” and “evil” actually mean. Am I immoral for purchasing and using a cell phone made with materials that were obtained through means that destroy lives and damage ecosystems?\n
                  \n
                  The modern world is far too complex and interconnected for people to avoid doing things that could be considered immoral or unethical.
                  """
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              +body: """
                > That’s quite the claim.\n
                \n
                **Yes**, it is, and as explained in the video the original author (and also the person explaining it) *admit* it is quite a claim, then proceed to demonstrate the veracity of the claim. I suggest you grab a cup of jo, settle in, and watch it. It addresses the points you bring up *directly*.\n
                \n
                [EDIT: Re: Quite a Claim: Yes, and thus fitting the OP’s “mind-blowing” criteria for the thread :-)]\n
                \n
                The *very* short answer to “are you immoral for purchasing a cell phone” is “*probably* yes”.\n
                \n
                The proposition is not an easy one (it accepts it is extreme), but it is hard to deny when you march down the logic.
                """
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            +body: "Right. And it necessarily follows from that that all humans are therefore immoral. And if that’s the case, there is no longer any utility to the term “immoral.” It becomes a pointless exercise."
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            You’ve committed *reductio ad absurdum*.\n
            \n
            Yes, most people are *probably* acting immorally and they are not even aware of it.\n
            \n
            That doesn’t mean it is *a pointless exercise* to identify the immoral behavior and *strive* to reduce or eliminate it, even if it is impossible to completely do so.
            """
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        +body: "Not most people. Literally every person. Or maybe you could give me an example of a person that wouldn’t be considered immoral by your metric?"
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        You are (deliberately?) skipping over the part of *awareness*.\n
        \n
        Take for example a person who is aware that they cannot act morally when making seemingly normal, banal decisions. For example, they may be aware that when they choose to buy a shiny new cell phone when they have an older-but-still-perfectly-working model, they *very likely* doing something immoral. Because they are aware of the moral implications of their choice, they can choose hold-off buying a new phone for as long as possible (a morally-positive choice) and *perhaps* - going a step further - even using that money they would have spent on a new phone to help another person in need directly.\n
        \n
        *Most* people probably don’t contemplate the moral implications of the purchase of a new phone, *this is true* and I accept your position this. But it is clearly not “literally every person” as you have said, since it only takes a single person with awareness to disprove your statement. I am certain *at least* one such person exists (even if anecdotally), so I rely on the word “most” rather than “literally every”.
        """
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      Ok, but buying a cell phone isn’t the only potentially immoral choice made by people regularly, it’s just one example. Modern life is a minefield with this stuff, and I’m incapable of imagining a person in modern society who is capable of avoiding every single one of these pitfalls. Hell, it could probably be argued that even existing on this dying planet could be considered immoral or unethical. Again, maybe I’m wrong and you could think of one. Maybe some ascetic living on the street in India?\n
      \n
      Also, I don’t really agree that awareness is even relevant. You can do immoral things without being aware that the thing you’re doing could be considered immoral. The thing itself is still immoral.\n
      \n
      Which was kind of my point; that it’s impossible to avoid in a modern, interconnected world. I probably did a dozen immoral things before breakfast this morning.
      """
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    > I probably did a dozen immoral things before breakfast this morning.\n
    \n
    Sure, certainly, yes, I’ll accept your admission at face value, **but** could you have done fewer?
    """
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175 DENIED edit 
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
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      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
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      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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                  +body: """
                    I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
                    \n
                    Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
                    \n
                    Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
                    \n
                    [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
                    """
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                +body: """
                  That’s an incredibly pessimistic way to view the world… I think it’s more accurate to say that people have the capacity for both good and evil. I’m not sure that you can say that “most everyone you know” are immoral or evil. That’s quite the claim.\n
                  \n
                  Though we would also have to explore what “immoral,” and “evil” actually mean. Am I immoral for purchasing and using a cell phone made with materials that were obtained through means that destroy lives and damage ecosystems?\n
                  \n
                  The modern world is far too complex and interconnected for people to avoid doing things that could be considered immoral or unethical.
                  """
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              +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2613}
              +body: """
                > That’s quite the claim.\n
                \n
                **Yes**, it is, and as explained in the video the original author (and also the person explaining it) *admit* it is quite a claim, then proceed to demonstrate the veracity of the claim. I suggest you grab a cup of jo, settle in, and watch it. It addresses the points you bring up *directly*.\n
                \n
                [EDIT: Re: Quite a Claim: Yes, and thus fitting the OP’s “mind-blowing” criteria for the thread :-)]\n
                \n
                The *very* short answer to “are you immoral for purchasing a cell phone” is “*probably* yes”.\n
                \n
                The proposition is not an easy one (it accepts it is extreme), but it is hard to deny when you march down the logic.
                """
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            +body: "Right. And it necessarily follows from that that all humans are therefore immoral. And if that’s the case, there is no longer any utility to the term “immoral.” It becomes a pointless exercise."
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            You’ve committed *reductio ad absurdum*.\n
            \n
            Yes, most people are *probably* acting immorally and they are not even aware of it.\n
            \n
            That doesn’t mean it is *a pointless exercise* to identify the immoral behavior and *strive* to reduce or eliminate it, even if it is impossible to completely do so.
            """
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        +body: "Not most people. Literally every person. Or maybe you could give me an example of a person that wouldn’t be considered immoral by your metric?"
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        You are (deliberately?) skipping over the part of *awareness*.\n
        \n
        Take for example a person who is aware that they cannot act morally when making seemingly normal, banal decisions. For example, they may be aware that when they choose to buy a shiny new cell phone when they have an older-but-still-perfectly-working model, they *very likely* doing something immoral. Because they are aware of the moral implications of their choice, they can choose hold-off buying a new phone for as long as possible (a morally-positive choice) and *perhaps* - going a step further - even using that money they would have spent on a new phone to help another person in need directly.\n
        \n
        *Most* people probably don’t contemplate the moral implications of the purchase of a new phone, *this is true* and I accept your position this. But it is clearly not “literally every person” as you have said, since it only takes a single person with awareness to disprove your statement. I am certain *at least* one such person exists (even if anecdotally), so I rely on the word “most” rather than “literally every”.
        """
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      Ok, but buying a cell phone isn’t the only potentially immoral choice made by people regularly, it’s just one example. Modern life is a minefield with this stuff, and I’m incapable of imagining a person in modern society who is capable of avoiding every single one of these pitfalls. Hell, it could probably be argued that even existing on this dying planet could be considered immoral or unethical. Again, maybe I’m wrong and you could think of one. Maybe some ascetic living on the street in India?\n
      \n
      Also, I don’t really agree that awareness is even relevant. You can do immoral things without being aware that the thing you’re doing could be considered immoral. The thing itself is still immoral.\n
      \n
      Which was kind of my point; that it’s impossible to avoid in a modern, interconnected world. I probably did a dozen immoral things before breakfast this morning.
      """
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    > I probably did a dozen immoral things before breakfast this morning.\n
    \n
    Sure, certainly, yes, I’ll accept your admission at face value, **but** could you have done fewer?
    """
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
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      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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      Support alternatives:\n
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      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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                  +body: """
                    I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
                    \n
                    Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
                    \n
                    Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
                    \n
                    [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
                    """
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                  That’s an incredibly pessimistic way to view the world… I think it’s more accurate to say that people have the capacity for both good and evil. I’m not sure that you can say that “most everyone you know” are immoral or evil. That’s quite the claim.\n
                  \n
                  Though we would also have to explore what “immoral,” and “evil” actually mean. Am I immoral for purchasing and using a cell phone made with materials that were obtained through means that destroy lives and damage ecosystems?\n
                  \n
                  The modern world is far too complex and interconnected for people to avoid doing things that could be considered immoral or unethical.
                  """
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                > That’s quite the claim.\n
                \n
                **Yes**, it is, and as explained in the video the original author (and also the person explaining it) *admit* it is quite a claim, then proceed to demonstrate the veracity of the claim. I suggest you grab a cup of jo, settle in, and watch it. It addresses the points you bring up *directly*.\n
                \n
                [EDIT: Re: Quite a Claim: Yes, and thus fitting the OP’s “mind-blowing” criteria for the thread :-)]\n
                \n
                The *very* short answer to “are you immoral for purchasing a cell phone” is “*probably* yes”.\n
                \n
                The proposition is not an easy one (it accepts it is extreme), but it is hard to deny when you march down the logic.
                """
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            +body: "Right. And it necessarily follows from that that all humans are therefore immoral. And if that’s the case, there is no longer any utility to the term “immoral.” It becomes a pointless exercise."
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            You’ve committed *reductio ad absurdum*.\n
            \n
            Yes, most people are *probably* acting immorally and they are not even aware of it.\n
            \n
            That doesn’t mean it is *a pointless exercise* to identify the immoral behavior and *strive* to reduce or eliminate it, even if it is impossible to completely do so.
            """
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        +body: "Not most people. Literally every person. Or maybe you could give me an example of a person that wouldn’t be considered immoral by your metric?"
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        You are (deliberately?) skipping over the part of *awareness*.\n
        \n
        Take for example a person who is aware that they cannot act morally when making seemingly normal, banal decisions. For example, they may be aware that when they choose to buy a shiny new cell phone when they have an older-but-still-perfectly-working model, they *very likely* doing something immoral. Because they are aware of the moral implications of their choice, they can choose hold-off buying a new phone for as long as possible (a morally-positive choice) and *perhaps* - going a step further - even using that money they would have spent on a new phone to help another person in need directly.\n
        \n
        *Most* people probably don’t contemplate the moral implications of the purchase of a new phone, *this is true* and I accept your position this. But it is clearly not “literally every person” as you have said, since it only takes a single person with awareness to disprove your statement. I am certain *at least* one such person exists (even if anecdotally), so I rely on the word “most” rather than “literally every”.
        """
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      Ok, but buying a cell phone isn’t the only potentially immoral choice made by people regularly, it’s just one example. Modern life is a minefield with this stuff, and I’m incapable of imagining a person in modern society who is capable of avoiding every single one of these pitfalls. Hell, it could probably be argued that even existing on this dying planet could be considered immoral or unethical. Again, maybe I’m wrong and you could think of one. Maybe some ascetic living on the street in India?\n
      \n
      Also, I don’t really agree that awareness is even relevant. You can do immoral things without being aware that the thing you’re doing could be considered immoral. The thing itself is still immoral.\n
      \n
      Which was kind of my point; that it’s impossible to avoid in a modern, interconnected world. I probably did a dozen immoral things before breakfast this morning.
      """
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    > I probably did a dozen immoral things before breakfast this morning.\n
    \n
    Sure, certainly, yes, I’ll accept your admission at face value, **but** could you have done fewer?
    """
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Show voter details
178 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3682
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    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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                  +body: """
                    I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
                    \n
                    Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
                    \n
                    Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
                    \n
                    [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
                    """
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                  That’s an incredibly pessimistic way to view the world… I think it’s more accurate to say that people have the capacity for both good and evil. I’m not sure that you can say that “most everyone you know” are immoral or evil. That’s quite the claim.\n
                  \n
                  Though we would also have to explore what “immoral,” and “evil” actually mean. Am I immoral for purchasing and using a cell phone made with materials that were obtained through means that destroy lives and damage ecosystems?\n
                  \n
                  The modern world is far too complex and interconnected for people to avoid doing things that could be considered immoral or unethical.
                  """
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              +body: """
                > That’s quite the claim.\n
                \n
                **Yes**, it is, and as explained in the video the original author (and also the person explaining it) *admit* it is quite a claim, then proceed to demonstrate the veracity of the claim. I suggest you grab a cup of jo, settle in, and watch it. It addresses the points you bring up *directly*.\n
                \n
                [EDIT: Re: Quite a Claim: Yes, and thus fitting the OP’s “mind-blowing” criteria for the thread :-)]\n
                \n
                The *very* short answer to “are you immoral for purchasing a cell phone” is “*probably* yes”.\n
                \n
                The proposition is not an easy one (it accepts it is extreme), but it is hard to deny when you march down the logic.
                """
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            +body: "Right. And it necessarily follows from that that all humans are therefore immoral. And if that’s the case, there is no longer any utility to the term “immoral.” It becomes a pointless exercise."
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            You’ve committed *reductio ad absurdum*.\n
            \n
            Yes, most people are *probably* acting immorally and they are not even aware of it.\n
            \n
            That doesn’t mean it is *a pointless exercise* to identify the immoral behavior and *strive* to reduce or eliminate it, even if it is impossible to completely do so.
            """
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        +body: "Not most people. Literally every person. Or maybe you could give me an example of a person that wouldn’t be considered immoral by your metric?"
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      +body: """
        You are (deliberately?) skipping over the part of *awareness*.\n
        \n
        Take for example a person who is aware that they cannot act morally when making seemingly normal, banal decisions. For example, they may be aware that when they choose to buy a shiny new cell phone when they have an older-but-still-perfectly-working model, they *very likely* doing something immoral. Because they are aware of the moral implications of their choice, they can choose hold-off buying a new phone for as long as possible (a morally-positive choice) and *perhaps* - going a step further - even using that money they would have spent on a new phone to help another person in need directly.\n
        \n
        *Most* people probably don’t contemplate the moral implications of the purchase of a new phone, *this is true* and I accept your position this. But it is clearly not “literally every person” as you have said, since it only takes a single person with awareness to disprove your statement. I am certain *at least* one such person exists (even if anecdotally), so I rely on the word “most” rather than “literally every”.
        """
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      Ok, but buying a cell phone isn’t the only potentially immoral choice made by people regularly, it’s just one example. Modern life is a minefield with this stuff, and I’m incapable of imagining a person in modern society who is capable of avoiding every single one of these pitfalls. Hell, it could probably be argued that even existing on this dying planet could be considered immoral or unethical. Again, maybe I’m wrong and you could think of one. Maybe some ascetic living on the street in India?\n
      \n
      Also, I don’t really agree that awareness is even relevant. You can do immoral things without being aware that the thing you’re doing could be considered immoral. The thing itself is still immoral.\n
      \n
      Which was kind of my point; that it’s impossible to avoid in a modern, interconnected world. I probably did a dozen immoral things before breakfast this morning.
      """
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179 DENIED edit 
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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                  +body: """
                    I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
                    \n
                    Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
                    \n
                    Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
                    \n
                    [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
                    """
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                  That’s an incredibly pessimistic way to view the world… I think it’s more accurate to say that people have the capacity for both good and evil. I’m not sure that you can say that “most everyone you know” are immoral or evil. That’s quite the claim.\n
                  \n
                  Though we would also have to explore what “immoral,” and “evil” actually mean. Am I immoral for purchasing and using a cell phone made with materials that were obtained through means that destroy lives and damage ecosystems?\n
                  \n
                  The modern world is far too complex and interconnected for people to avoid doing things that could be considered immoral or unethical.
                  """
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              +body: """
                > That’s quite the claim.\n
                \n
                **Yes**, it is, and as explained in the video the original author (and also the person explaining it) *admit* it is quite a claim, then proceed to demonstrate the veracity of the claim. I suggest you grab a cup of jo, settle in, and watch it. It addresses the points you bring up *directly*.\n
                \n
                [EDIT: Re: Quite a Claim: Yes, and thus fitting the OP’s “mind-blowing” criteria for the thread :-)]\n
                \n
                The *very* short answer to “are you immoral for purchasing a cell phone” is “*probably* yes”.\n
                \n
                The proposition is not an easy one (it accepts it is extreme), but it is hard to deny when you march down the logic.
                """
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            +body: "Right. And it necessarily follows from that that all humans are therefore immoral. And if that’s the case, there is no longer any utility to the term “immoral.” It becomes a pointless exercise."
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            You’ve committed *reductio ad absurdum*.\n
            \n
            Yes, most people are *probably* acting immorally and they are not even aware of it.\n
            \n
            That doesn’t mean it is *a pointless exercise* to identify the immoral behavior and *strive* to reduce or eliminate it, even if it is impossible to completely do so.
            """
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        +body: "Not most people. Literally every person. Or maybe you could give me an example of a person that wouldn’t be considered immoral by your metric?"
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      +body: """
        You are (deliberately?) skipping over the part of *awareness*.\n
        \n
        Take for example a person who is aware that they cannot act morally when making seemingly normal, banal decisions. For example, they may be aware that when they choose to buy a shiny new cell phone when they have an older-but-still-perfectly-working model, they *very likely* doing something immoral. Because they are aware of the moral implications of their choice, they can choose hold-off buying a new phone for as long as possible (a morally-positive choice) and *perhaps* - going a step further - even using that money they would have spent on a new phone to help another person in need directly.\n
        \n
        *Most* people probably don’t contemplate the moral implications of the purchase of a new phone, *this is true* and I accept your position this. But it is clearly not “literally every person” as you have said, since it only takes a single person with awareness to disprove your statement. I am certain *at least* one such person exists (even if anecdotally), so I rely on the word “most” rather than “literally every”.
        """
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      Ok, but buying a cell phone isn’t the only potentially immoral choice made by people regularly, it’s just one example. Modern life is a minefield with this stuff, and I’m incapable of imagining a person in modern society who is capable of avoiding every single one of these pitfalls. Hell, it could probably be argued that even existing on this dying planet could be considered immoral or unethical. Again, maybe I’m wrong and you could think of one. Maybe some ascetic living on the street in India?\n
      \n
      Also, I don’t really agree that awareness is even relevant. You can do immoral things without being aware that the thing you’re doing could be considered immoral. The thing itself is still immoral.\n
      \n
      Which was kind of my point; that it’s impossible to avoid in a modern, interconnected world. I probably did a dozen immoral things before breakfast this morning.
      """
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  +body: "Did you watch the video? You are both making the same point."
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180 DENIED moderate 
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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                  +body: """
                    I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
                    \n
                    Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
                    \n
                    Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
                    \n
                    [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
                    """
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                  That’s an incredibly pessimistic way to view the world… I think it’s more accurate to say that people have the capacity for both good and evil. I’m not sure that you can say that “most everyone you know” are immoral or evil. That’s quite the claim.\n
                  \n
                  Though we would also have to explore what “immoral,” and “evil” actually mean. Am I immoral for purchasing and using a cell phone made with materials that were obtained through means that destroy lives and damage ecosystems?\n
                  \n
                  The modern world is far too complex and interconnected for people to avoid doing things that could be considered immoral or unethical.
                  """
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                > That’s quite the claim.\n
                \n
                **Yes**, it is, and as explained in the video the original author (and also the person explaining it) *admit* it is quite a claim, then proceed to demonstrate the veracity of the claim. I suggest you grab a cup of jo, settle in, and watch it. It addresses the points you bring up *directly*.\n
                \n
                [EDIT: Re: Quite a Claim: Yes, and thus fitting the OP’s “mind-blowing” criteria for the thread :-)]\n
                \n
                The *very* short answer to “are you immoral for purchasing a cell phone” is “*probably* yes”.\n
                \n
                The proposition is not an easy one (it accepts it is extreme), but it is hard to deny when you march down the logic.
                """
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            +body: "Right. And it necessarily follows from that that all humans are therefore immoral. And if that’s the case, there is no longer any utility to the term “immoral.” It becomes a pointless exercise."
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            You’ve committed *reductio ad absurdum*.\n
            \n
            Yes, most people are *probably* acting immorally and they are not even aware of it.\n
            \n
            That doesn’t mean it is *a pointless exercise* to identify the immoral behavior and *strive* to reduce or eliminate it, even if it is impossible to completely do so.
            """
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        +body: "Not most people. Literally every person. Or maybe you could give me an example of a person that wouldn’t be considered immoral by your metric?"
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      +body: """
        You are (deliberately?) skipping over the part of *awareness*.\n
        \n
        Take for example a person who is aware that they cannot act morally when making seemingly normal, banal decisions. For example, they may be aware that when they choose to buy a shiny new cell phone when they have an older-but-still-perfectly-working model, they *very likely* doing something immoral. Because they are aware of the moral implications of their choice, they can choose hold-off buying a new phone for as long as possible (a morally-positive choice) and *perhaps* - going a step further - even using that money they would have spent on a new phone to help another person in need directly.\n
        \n
        *Most* people probably don’t contemplate the moral implications of the purchase of a new phone, *this is true* and I accept your position this. But it is clearly not “literally every person” as you have said, since it only takes a single person with awareness to disprove your statement. I am certain *at least* one such person exists (even if anecdotally), so I rely on the word “most” rather than “literally every”.
        """
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      Ok, but buying a cell phone isn’t the only potentially immoral choice made by people regularly, it’s just one example. Modern life is a minefield with this stuff, and I’m incapable of imagining a person in modern society who is capable of avoiding every single one of these pitfalls. Hell, it could probably be argued that even existing on this dying planet could be considered immoral or unethical. Again, maybe I’m wrong and you could think of one. Maybe some ascetic living on the street in India?\n
      \n
      Also, I don’t really agree that awareness is even relevant. You can do immoral things without being aware that the thing you’re doing could be considered immoral. The thing itself is still immoral.\n
      \n
      Which was kind of my point; that it’s impossible to avoid in a modern, interconnected world. I probably did a dozen immoral things before breakfast this morning.
      """
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  +body: "Did you watch the video? You are both making the same point."
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
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      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
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      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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      Support alternatives:\n
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      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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                    +body: """
                      I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
                      \n
                      Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
                      \n
                      Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
                      \n
                      [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
                      """
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                    That’s an incredibly pessimistic way to view the world… I think it’s more accurate to say that people have the capacity for both good and evil. I’m not sure that you can say that “most everyone you know” are immoral or evil. That’s quite the claim.\n
                    \n
                    Though we would also have to explore what “immoral,” and “evil” actually mean. Am I immoral for purchasing and using a cell phone made with materials that were obtained through means that destroy lives and damage ecosystems?\n
                    \n
                    The modern world is far too complex and interconnected for people to avoid doing things that could be considered immoral or unethical.
                    """
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                  > That’s quite the claim.\n
                  \n
                  **Yes**, it is, and as explained in the video the original author (and also the person explaining it) *admit* it is quite a claim, then proceed to demonstrate the veracity of the claim. I suggest you grab a cup of jo, settle in, and watch it. It addresses the points you bring up *directly*.\n
                  \n
                  [EDIT: Re: Quite a Claim: Yes, and thus fitting the OP’s “mind-blowing” criteria for the thread :-)]\n
                  \n
                  The *very* short answer to “are you immoral for purchasing a cell phone” is “*probably* yes”.\n
                  \n
                  The proposition is not an easy one (it accepts it is extreme), but it is hard to deny when you march down the logic.
                  """
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              +body: "Right. And it necessarily follows from that that all humans are therefore immoral. And if that’s the case, there is no longer any utility to the term “immoral.” It becomes a pointless exercise."
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            +body: """
              You’ve committed *reductio ad absurdum*.\n
              \n
              Yes, most people are *probably* acting immorally and they are not even aware of it.\n
              \n
              That doesn’t mean it is *a pointless exercise* to identify the immoral behavior and *strive* to reduce or eliminate it, even if it is impossible to completely do so.
              """
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          +body: "Not most people. Literally every person. Or maybe you could give me an example of a person that wouldn’t be considered immoral by your metric?"
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        +body: """
          You are (deliberately?) skipping over the part of *awareness*.\n
          \n
          Take for example a person who is aware that they cannot act morally when making seemingly normal, banal decisions. For example, they may be aware that when they choose to buy a shiny new cell phone when they have an older-but-still-perfectly-working model, they *very likely* doing something immoral. Because they are aware of the moral implications of their choice, they can choose hold-off buying a new phone for as long as possible (a morally-positive choice) and *perhaps* - going a step further - even using that money they would have spent on a new phone to help another person in need directly.\n
          \n
          *Most* people probably don’t contemplate the moral implications of the purchase of a new phone, *this is true* and I accept your position this. But it is clearly not “literally every person” as you have said, since it only takes a single person with awareness to disprove your statement. I am certain *at least* one such person exists (even if anecdotally), so I rely on the word “most” rather than “literally every”.
          """
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      +body: """
        Ok, but buying a cell phone isn’t the only potentially immoral choice made by people regularly, it’s just one example. Modern life is a minefield with this stuff, and I’m incapable of imagining a person in modern society who is capable of avoiding every single one of these pitfalls. Hell, it could probably be argued that even existing on this dying planet could be considered immoral or unethical. Again, maybe I’m wrong and you could think of one. Maybe some ascetic living on the street in India?\n
        \n
        Also, I don’t really agree that awareness is even relevant. You can do immoral things without being aware that the thing you’re doing could be considered immoral. The thing itself is still immoral.\n
        \n
        Which was kind of my point; that it’s impossible to avoid in a modern, interconnected world. I probably did a dozen immoral things before breakfast this morning.
        """
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    +body: "Did you watch the video? You are both making the same point."
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  +body: "I haven’t. I’m currently at work and can’t watch. I was mostly pointing out that it becomes a pointless exercise when you realize that every human on the planet is considered immoral"
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183 DENIED edit 
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
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      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
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      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
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      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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                    +body: """
                      I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
                      \n
                      Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
                      \n
                      Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
                      \n
                      [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
                      """
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                  +body: """
                    That’s an incredibly pessimistic way to view the world… I think it’s more accurate to say that people have the capacity for both good and evil. I’m not sure that you can say that “most everyone you know” are immoral or evil. That’s quite the claim.\n
                    \n
                    Though we would also have to explore what “immoral,” and “evil” actually mean. Am I immoral for purchasing and using a cell phone made with materials that were obtained through means that destroy lives and damage ecosystems?\n
                    \n
                    The modern world is far too complex and interconnected for people to avoid doing things that could be considered immoral or unethical.
                    """
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                +body: """
                  > That’s quite the claim.\n
                  \n
                  **Yes**, it is, and as explained in the video the original author (and also the person explaining it) *admit* it is quite a claim, then proceed to demonstrate the veracity of the claim. I suggest you grab a cup of jo, settle in, and watch it. It addresses the points you bring up *directly*.\n
                  \n
                  [EDIT: Re: Quite a Claim: Yes, and thus fitting the OP’s “mind-blowing” criteria for the thread :-)]\n
                  \n
                  The *very* short answer to “are you immoral for purchasing a cell phone” is “*probably* yes”.\n
                  \n
                  The proposition is not an easy one (it accepts it is extreme), but it is hard to deny when you march down the logic.
                  """
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              +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2613}
              +body: "Right. And it necessarily follows from that that all humans are therefore immoral. And if that’s the case, there is no longer any utility to the term “immoral.” It becomes a pointless exercise."
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            +body: """
              You’ve committed *reductio ad absurdum*.\n
              \n
              Yes, most people are *probably* acting immorally and they are not even aware of it.\n
              \n
              That doesn’t mean it is *a pointless exercise* to identify the immoral behavior and *strive* to reduce or eliminate it, even if it is impossible to completely do so.
              """
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          +body: "Not most people. Literally every person. Or maybe you could give me an example of a person that wouldn’t be considered immoral by your metric?"
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        +body: """
          You are (deliberately?) skipping over the part of *awareness*.\n
          \n
          Take for example a person who is aware that they cannot act morally when making seemingly normal, banal decisions. For example, they may be aware that when they choose to buy a shiny new cell phone when they have an older-but-still-perfectly-working model, they *very likely* doing something immoral. Because they are aware of the moral implications of their choice, they can choose hold-off buying a new phone for as long as possible (a morally-positive choice) and *perhaps* - going a step further - even using that money they would have spent on a new phone to help another person in need directly.\n
          \n
          *Most* people probably don’t contemplate the moral implications of the purchase of a new phone, *this is true* and I accept your position this. But it is clearly not “literally every person” as you have said, since it only takes a single person with awareness to disprove your statement. I am certain *at least* one such person exists (even if anecdotally), so I rely on the word “most” rather than “literally every”.
          """
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        Ok, but buying a cell phone isn’t the only potentially immoral choice made by people regularly, it’s just one example. Modern life is a minefield with this stuff, and I’m incapable of imagining a person in modern society who is capable of avoiding every single one of these pitfalls. Hell, it could probably be argued that even existing on this dying planet could be considered immoral or unethical. Again, maybe I’m wrong and you could think of one. Maybe some ascetic living on the street in India?\n
        \n
        Also, I don’t really agree that awareness is even relevant. You can do immoral things without being aware that the thing you’re doing could be considered immoral. The thing itself is still immoral.\n
        \n
        Which was kind of my point; that it’s impossible to avoid in a modern, interconnected world. I probably did a dozen immoral things before breakfast this morning.
        """
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    +body: "Did you watch the video? You are both making the same point."
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  +body: "I haven’t. I’m currently at work and can’t watch. I was mostly pointing out that it becomes a pointless exercise when you realize that every human on the planet is considered immoral"
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184 DENIED moderate 
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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                    +body: """
                      I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
                      \n
                      Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
                      \n
                      Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
                      \n
                      [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
                      """
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                      date: 2023-07-12 15:11:18.0 +02:00
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                  +body: """
                    That’s an incredibly pessimistic way to view the world… I think it’s more accurate to say that people have the capacity for both good and evil. I’m not sure that you can say that “most everyone you know” are immoral or evil. That’s quite the claim.\n
                    \n
                    Though we would also have to explore what “immoral,” and “evil” actually mean. Am I immoral for purchasing and using a cell phone made with materials that were obtained through means that destroy lives and damage ecosystems?\n
                    \n
                    The modern world is far too complex and interconnected for people to avoid doing things that could be considered immoral or unethical.
                    """
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                +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2613}
                +body: """
                  > That’s quite the claim.\n
                  \n
                  **Yes**, it is, and as explained in the video the original author (and also the person explaining it) *admit* it is quite a claim, then proceed to demonstrate the veracity of the claim. I suggest you grab a cup of jo, settle in, and watch it. It addresses the points you bring up *directly*.\n
                  \n
                  [EDIT: Re: Quite a Claim: Yes, and thus fitting the OP’s “mind-blowing” criteria for the thread :-)]\n
                  \n
                  The *very* short answer to “are you immoral for purchasing a cell phone” is “*probably* yes”.\n
                  \n
                  The proposition is not an easy one (it accepts it is extreme), but it is hard to deny when you march down the logic.
                  """
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              +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2613}
              +body: "Right. And it necessarily follows from that that all humans are therefore immoral. And if that’s the case, there is no longer any utility to the term “immoral.” It becomes a pointless exercise."
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            +body: """
              You’ve committed *reductio ad absurdum*.\n
              \n
              Yes, most people are *probably* acting immorally and they are not even aware of it.\n
              \n
              That doesn’t mean it is *a pointless exercise* to identify the immoral behavior and *strive* to reduce or eliminate it, even if it is impossible to completely do so.
              """
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          +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2613}
          +body: "Not most people. Literally every person. Or maybe you could give me an example of a person that wouldn’t be considered immoral by your metric?"
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            date: 2023-07-12 17:48:07.0 +02:00
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        +body: """
          You are (deliberately?) skipping over the part of *awareness*.\n
          \n
          Take for example a person who is aware that they cannot act morally when making seemingly normal, banal decisions. For example, they may be aware that when they choose to buy a shiny new cell phone when they have an older-but-still-perfectly-working model, they *very likely* doing something immoral. Because they are aware of the moral implications of their choice, they can choose hold-off buying a new phone for as long as possible (a morally-positive choice) and *perhaps* - going a step further - even using that money they would have spent on a new phone to help another person in need directly.\n
          \n
          *Most* people probably don’t contemplate the moral implications of the purchase of a new phone, *this is true* and I accept your position this. But it is clearly not “literally every person” as you have said, since it only takes a single person with awareness to disprove your statement. I am certain *at least* one such person exists (even if anecdotally), so I rely on the word “most” rather than “literally every”.
          """
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      +body: """
        Ok, but buying a cell phone isn’t the only potentially immoral choice made by people regularly, it’s just one example. Modern life is a minefield with this stuff, and I’m incapable of imagining a person in modern society who is capable of avoiding every single one of these pitfalls. Hell, it could probably be argued that even existing on this dying planet could be considered immoral or unethical. Again, maybe I’m wrong and you could think of one. Maybe some ascetic living on the street in India?\n
        \n
        Also, I don’t really agree that awareness is even relevant. You can do immoral things without being aware that the thing you’re doing could be considered immoral. The thing itself is still immoral.\n
        \n
        Which was kind of my point; that it’s impossible to avoid in a modern, interconnected world. I probably did a dozen immoral things before breakfast this morning.
        """
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    +body: "Did you watch the video? You are both making the same point."
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2613}
  +body: "I haven’t. I’m currently at work and can’t watch. I was mostly pointing out that it becomes a pointless exercise when you realize that every human on the planet is considered immoral"
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}
 
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185 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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186 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3734
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#3683 …}
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  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
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    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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                      +body: """
                        I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
                        \n
                        Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
                        \n
                        Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
                        \n
                        [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
                        """
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                      That’s an incredibly pessimistic way to view the world… I think it’s more accurate to say that people have the capacity for both good and evil. I’m not sure that you can say that “most everyone you know” are immoral or evil. That’s quite the claim.\n
                      \n
                      Though we would also have to explore what “immoral,” and “evil” actually mean. Am I immoral for purchasing and using a cell phone made with materials that were obtained through means that destroy lives and damage ecosystems?\n
                      \n
                      The modern world is far too complex and interconnected for people to avoid doing things that could be considered immoral or unethical.
                      """
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                    > That’s quite the claim.\n
                    \n
                    **Yes**, it is, and as explained in the video the original author (and also the person explaining it) *admit* it is quite a claim, then proceed to demonstrate the veracity of the claim. I suggest you grab a cup of jo, settle in, and watch it. It addresses the points you bring up *directly*.\n
                    \n
                    [EDIT: Re: Quite a Claim: Yes, and thus fitting the OP’s “mind-blowing” criteria for the thread :-)]\n
                    \n
                    The *very* short answer to “are you immoral for purchasing a cell phone” is “*probably* yes”.\n
                    \n
                    The proposition is not an easy one (it accepts it is extreme), but it is hard to deny when you march down the logic.
                    """
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                +body: "Right. And it necessarily follows from that that all humans are therefore immoral. And if that’s the case, there is no longer any utility to the term “immoral.” It becomes a pointless exercise."
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                You’ve committed *reductio ad absurdum*.\n
                \n
                Yes, most people are *probably* acting immorally and they are not even aware of it.\n
                \n
                That doesn’t mean it is *a pointless exercise* to identify the immoral behavior and *strive* to reduce or eliminate it, even if it is impossible to completely do so.
                """
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            +body: "Not most people. Literally every person. Or maybe you could give me an example of a person that wouldn’t be considered immoral by your metric?"
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            You are (deliberately?) skipping over the part of *awareness*.\n
            \n
            Take for example a person who is aware that they cannot act morally when making seemingly normal, banal decisions. For example, they may be aware that when they choose to buy a shiny new cell phone when they have an older-but-still-perfectly-working model, they *very likely* doing something immoral. Because they are aware of the moral implications of their choice, they can choose hold-off buying a new phone for as long as possible (a morally-positive choice) and *perhaps* - going a step further - even using that money they would have spent on a new phone to help another person in need directly.\n
            \n
            *Most* people probably don’t contemplate the moral implications of the purchase of a new phone, *this is true* and I accept your position this. But it is clearly not “literally every person” as you have said, since it only takes a single person with awareness to disprove your statement. I am certain *at least* one such person exists (even if anecdotally), so I rely on the word “most” rather than “literally every”.
            """
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          Ok, but buying a cell phone isn’t the only potentially immoral choice made by people regularly, it’s just one example. Modern life is a minefield with this stuff, and I’m incapable of imagining a person in modern society who is capable of avoiding every single one of these pitfalls. Hell, it could probably be argued that even existing on this dying planet could be considered immoral or unethical. Again, maybe I’m wrong and you could think of one. Maybe some ascetic living on the street in India?\n
          \n
          Also, I don’t really agree that awareness is even relevant. You can do immoral things without being aware that the thing you’re doing could be considered immoral. The thing itself is still immoral.\n
          \n
          Which was kind of my point; that it’s impossible to avoid in a modern, interconnected world. I probably did a dozen immoral things before breakfast this morning.
          """
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    +body: "I haven’t. I’m currently at work and can’t watch. I was mostly pointing out that it becomes a pointless exercise when you realize that every human on the planet is considered immoral"
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  +body: "Pointless might be a bit of a stretch. Change begins with recognition - perhaps some of the grand constants must be mutable in order for progress to be made."
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187 DENIED edit 
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
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      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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                      +body: """
                        I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
                        \n
                        Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
                        \n
                        Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
                        \n
                        [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
                        """
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                      That’s an incredibly pessimistic way to view the world… I think it’s more accurate to say that people have the capacity for both good and evil. I’m not sure that you can say that “most everyone you know” are immoral or evil. That’s quite the claim.\n
                      \n
                      Though we would also have to explore what “immoral,” and “evil” actually mean. Am I immoral for purchasing and using a cell phone made with materials that were obtained through means that destroy lives and damage ecosystems?\n
                      \n
                      The modern world is far too complex and interconnected for people to avoid doing things that could be considered immoral or unethical.
                      """
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                    > That’s quite the claim.\n
                    \n
                    **Yes**, it is, and as explained in the video the original author (and also the person explaining it) *admit* it is quite a claim, then proceed to demonstrate the veracity of the claim. I suggest you grab a cup of jo, settle in, and watch it. It addresses the points you bring up *directly*.\n
                    \n
                    [EDIT: Re: Quite a Claim: Yes, and thus fitting the OP’s “mind-blowing” criteria for the thread :-)]\n
                    \n
                    The *very* short answer to “are you immoral for purchasing a cell phone” is “*probably* yes”.\n
                    \n
                    The proposition is not an easy one (it accepts it is extreme), but it is hard to deny when you march down the logic.
                    """
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                +body: "Right. And it necessarily follows from that that all humans are therefore immoral. And if that’s the case, there is no longer any utility to the term “immoral.” It becomes a pointless exercise."
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                You’ve committed *reductio ad absurdum*.\n
                \n
                Yes, most people are *probably* acting immorally and they are not even aware of it.\n
                \n
                That doesn’t mean it is *a pointless exercise* to identify the immoral behavior and *strive* to reduce or eliminate it, even if it is impossible to completely do so.
                """
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            +body: "Not most people. Literally every person. Or maybe you could give me an example of a person that wouldn’t be considered immoral by your metric?"
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              date: 2023-07-12 17:48:07.0 +02:00
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          +body: """
            You are (deliberately?) skipping over the part of *awareness*.\n
            \n
            Take for example a person who is aware that they cannot act morally when making seemingly normal, banal decisions. For example, they may be aware that when they choose to buy a shiny new cell phone when they have an older-but-still-perfectly-working model, they *very likely* doing something immoral. Because they are aware of the moral implications of their choice, they can choose hold-off buying a new phone for as long as possible (a morally-positive choice) and *perhaps* - going a step further - even using that money they would have spent on a new phone to help another person in need directly.\n
            \n
            *Most* people probably don’t contemplate the moral implications of the purchase of a new phone, *this is true* and I accept your position this. But it is clearly not “literally every person” as you have said, since it only takes a single person with awareness to disprove your statement. I am certain *at least* one such person exists (even if anecdotally), so I rely on the word “most” rather than “literally every”.
            """
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          Ok, but buying a cell phone isn’t the only potentially immoral choice made by people regularly, it’s just one example. Modern life is a minefield with this stuff, and I’m incapable of imagining a person in modern society who is capable of avoiding every single one of these pitfalls. Hell, it could probably be argued that even existing on this dying planet could be considered immoral or unethical. Again, maybe I’m wrong and you could think of one. Maybe some ascetic living on the street in India?\n
          \n
          Also, I don’t really agree that awareness is even relevant. You can do immoral things without being aware that the thing you’re doing could be considered immoral. The thing itself is still immoral.\n
          \n
          Which was kind of my point; that it’s impossible to avoid in a modern, interconnected world. I probably did a dozen immoral things before breakfast this morning.
          """
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      +body: "Did you watch the video? You are both making the same point."
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    +body: "I haven’t. I’m currently at work and can’t watch. I was mostly pointing out that it becomes a pointless exercise when you realize that every human on the planet is considered immoral"
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  +body: "Pointless might be a bit of a stretch. Change begins with recognition - perhaps some of the grand constants must be mutable in order for progress to be made."
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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      Support alternatives:\n
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      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
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      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
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      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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                      +body: """
                        I am focusing on the “blow my mind” part, rather than the “beautiful” part of your question, but I am certain many philosophically-minded people would consider the following “beautiful”.\n
                        \n
                        Peter Singer’s argument in “Famine, Affluence, and Morality (1972)” that *you and most everyone you know* are probably *immoral or evil* and you don’t even realize it. It really affected my ideas of how to *strive* to live.\n
                        \n
                        Here is a good video explaining the idea in detail, worth 30m of your time.\n
                        \n
                        [Peter Singer - ordinary people are evil](https://youtu.be/KVl5kMXz1vA)
                        """
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                      That’s an incredibly pessimistic way to view the world… I think it’s more accurate to say that people have the capacity for both good and evil. I’m not sure that you can say that “most everyone you know” are immoral or evil. That’s quite the claim.\n
                      \n
                      Though we would also have to explore what “immoral,” and “evil” actually mean. Am I immoral for purchasing and using a cell phone made with materials that were obtained through means that destroy lives and damage ecosystems?\n
                      \n
                      The modern world is far too complex and interconnected for people to avoid doing things that could be considered immoral or unethical.
                      """
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                  +body: """
                    > That’s quite the claim.\n
                    \n
                    **Yes**, it is, and as explained in the video the original author (and also the person explaining it) *admit* it is quite a claim, then proceed to demonstrate the veracity of the claim. I suggest you grab a cup of jo, settle in, and watch it. It addresses the points you bring up *directly*.\n
                    \n
                    [EDIT: Re: Quite a Claim: Yes, and thus fitting the OP’s “mind-blowing” criteria for the thread :-)]\n
                    \n
                    The *very* short answer to “are you immoral for purchasing a cell phone” is “*probably* yes”.\n
                    \n
                    The proposition is not an easy one (it accepts it is extreme), but it is hard to deny when you march down the logic.
                    """
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                +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2613}
                +body: "Right. And it necessarily follows from that that all humans are therefore immoral. And if that’s the case, there is no longer any utility to the term “immoral.” It becomes a pointless exercise."
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              +body: """
                You’ve committed *reductio ad absurdum*.\n
                \n
                Yes, most people are *probably* acting immorally and they are not even aware of it.\n
                \n
                That doesn’t mean it is *a pointless exercise* to identify the immoral behavior and *strive* to reduce or eliminate it, even if it is impossible to completely do so.
                """
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            +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2613}
            +body: "Not most people. Literally every person. Or maybe you could give me an example of a person that wouldn’t be considered immoral by your metric?"
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          +body: """
            You are (deliberately?) skipping over the part of *awareness*.\n
            \n
            Take for example a person who is aware that they cannot act morally when making seemingly normal, banal decisions. For example, they may be aware that when they choose to buy a shiny new cell phone when they have an older-but-still-perfectly-working model, they *very likely* doing something immoral. Because they are aware of the moral implications of their choice, they can choose hold-off buying a new phone for as long as possible (a morally-positive choice) and *perhaps* - going a step further - even using that money they would have spent on a new phone to help another person in need directly.\n
            \n
            *Most* people probably don’t contemplate the moral implications of the purchase of a new phone, *this is true* and I accept your position this. But it is clearly not “literally every person” as you have said, since it only takes a single person with awareness to disprove your statement. I am certain *at least* one such person exists (even if anecdotally), so I rely on the word “most” rather than “literally every”.
            """
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          Ok, but buying a cell phone isn’t the only potentially immoral choice made by people regularly, it’s just one example. Modern life is a minefield with this stuff, and I’m incapable of imagining a person in modern society who is capable of avoiding every single one of these pitfalls. Hell, it could probably be argued that even existing on this dying planet could be considered immoral or unethical. Again, maybe I’m wrong and you could think of one. Maybe some ascetic living on the street in India?\n
          \n
          Also, I don’t really agree that awareness is even relevant. You can do immoral things without being aware that the thing you’re doing could be considered immoral. The thing itself is still immoral.\n
          \n
          Which was kind of my point; that it’s impossible to avoid in a modern, interconnected world. I probably did a dozen immoral things before breakfast this morning.
          """
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      +body: "Did you watch the video? You are both making the same point."
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    +body: "I haven’t. I’m currently at work and can’t watch. I was mostly pointing out that it becomes a pointless exercise when you realize that every human on the planet is considered immoral"
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  +body: "Pointless might be a bit of a stretch. Change begins with recognition - perhaps some of the grand constants must be mutable in order for progress to be made."
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      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
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      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
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      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
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      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
191 DENIED edit 
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      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
192 DENIED moderate 
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      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
193 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
194 DENIED moderate 
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      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
195 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2762
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      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
196 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2762
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      \n
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      \n
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      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
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      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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Show voter details
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Show voter details
198 DENIED moderate 
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      \n
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      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
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      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
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      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2762}
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
199 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3073
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    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
200 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#3073
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    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
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      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
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      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
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      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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Show voter details
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Show voter details
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Show voter details
203 DENIED edit 
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      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
204 DENIED moderate 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
205 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
206 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2911
  +user: App\Entity\User {#2925 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2912 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
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      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
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      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
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      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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    Depends on what I’m doing and where I am.\n
    \n
    Out of the house? AirPod Pros.\n
    \n
    At home? My speaker setup (Focals, forgot what model).\n
    \n
    At home but listening to music? My Stax electrostatic headphones. Nothing can beat them, at least nothing I’ll ever be able to afford.
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
207 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2911
  +user: App\Entity\User {#2925 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2912 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
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    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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  +parent: null
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  +body: """
    Depends on what I’m doing and where I am.\n
    \n
    Out of the house? AirPod Pros.\n
    \n
    At home? My speaker setup (Focals, forgot what model).\n
    \n
    At home but listening to music? My Stax electrostatic headphones. Nothing can beat them, at least nothing I’ll ever be able to afford.
    """
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
208 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2911
  +user: App\Entity\User {#2925 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2912 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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  +parent: null
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  +body: """
    Depends on what I’m doing and where I am.\n
    \n
    Out of the house? AirPod Pros.\n
    \n
    At home? My speaker setup (Focals, forgot what model).\n
    \n
    At home but listening to music? My Stax electrostatic headphones. Nothing can beat them, at least nothing I’ll ever be able to afford.
    """
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
209 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
210 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2987
  +user: App\Entity\User {#3001 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2988 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.ml"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions\n
      \n
      **[Search asklemmy](https://lemmy.ml/search?q=&type=Posts&listingType=All&communityId=8&page=1&sort=TopAll) 🔍**\n
      \n
      If your post meets the following criteria, it’s welcome here!\n
      \n
      1. Open-ended\n
      2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions\n
      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
      5. [An actual topic of discussion](https://lemmy.ml/post/1239589)\n
      \n
      Support alternatives:\n
      \n
      - [!lemmy_support@lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml/c/lemmy_support)\n
      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
      - [!selfhosted@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted)\n
      \n
      ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
      """
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
211 DENIED edit 
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      3. **Not regarding using or support for Lemmy**: [context](https://lemmy.ml/post/1223478), find help in the list of support alternatives below\n
      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
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      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
212 DENIED moderate 
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      4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
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      - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
213 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\Magazine {#306
  +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
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    4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members\n
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    - [!nostupidlemmyquestions@lemmy.dbzer0.com](https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/nostupidlemmyquestions)\n
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    ~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details