Symfony Profiler

Key	Value
provider	security.user.provider.concrete.app_user_provider
context	main
entry_point	App\Security\KbinAuthenticator
user_checker	App\Security\UserChecker
access_denied_handler	(none)
access_denied_url	(none)
authenticators	[`"two_factor" "remember_me" "App\Security\KbinAuthenticator" "App\Security\FacebookAuthenticator" "App\Security\GoogleAuthenticator" "App\Security\GithubAuthenticator" "App\Security\KeycloakAuthenticator"`]

Listener	Duration	Response
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ChannelListener {#723`-map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …} -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …} -httpPort: 80 -httpsPort: 443`}	0.00 ms	(none)
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ContextListener {#706-tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\TokenStorage {#1017 …} -sessionKey: "_security_main" -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …} -userProviders: Symfony\Component\DependencyInjection\Argument\RewindableGenerator {#705 …} -dispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …} -registered: false -trustResolver: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authentication\AuthenticationTrustResolver {#780 …} -sessionTrackerEnabler: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage::enableUsageTracking(): void {#703 …}}	0.88 ms	(none)
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AuthenticatorManagerListener {#584`-authenticatorManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Authentication\AuthenticatorManager {#595 …}`}	0.00 ms	(none)
Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Http\Firewall\TwoFactorAccessListener {#582`-twoFactorFirewallConfig: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\TwoFactor\TwoFactorFirewallConfig {#842 …} -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …} -twoFactorAccessDecider: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\TwoFactorAccessDecider {#581 …}`}	0.05 ms	(none)
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AccessListener {#579`-tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …} -accessDecisionManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\TraceableAccessDecisionManager {#937 …} -map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …}`}	0.00 ms	(none)
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\LogoutListener {#786`-tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …} -options: [ "csrf_parameter" => "_csrf_token" "csrf_token_id" => "logout" "logout_path" => "app_logout" ] -httpUtils: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\HttpUtils {#841 …} -csrfTokenManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Csrf\CsrfTokenManager {#1015 …} -eventDispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …}`}	0.00 ms	(none)

#	Voter class
1	"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\AuthenticatedVoter"
2	"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
3	"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
4	"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\ExpressionVoter"
5	"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
6	"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
7	"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
8	"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
9	"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
10	"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
11	"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
12	"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
13	"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
14	"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"

1

DENIED

ROLE_USER

null

2

DENIED

moderate

App\Entity\EntryComment {#2106
  +user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2337 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2343 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104 …}
  +body: """
    This is a common misconception. A couple times, it’s even [gone to court](https://wiki.fsfe.org/Migrated/GPL%20Enforcement%20Cases). Both Cisco and Best Buy had to pay nontrivial amounts of money, and in the case of Best Buy, it hilariously had to *give to the plaintiffs its inventory of TVs* which contained software copyrighted and GPL-licensed by the plaintiffs.\n
    \n
    GPL licensed does not in any world mean “completely free for anyone to use”. For end-users, it does. For companies that want to resell the GPL-licensed software, it means, you can do it for free *if you comply with the terms of the license*, and if you don’t, then you can’t. There’s not a monetary exchange, but there are licensing terms you need to comply with which were apparently important enough to the people that wrote the software for them to apply that particular license instead of some other one.\n
    \n
    If you disagree, that’s completely fine, but that doesn’t mean you can all of a sudden resell their software and use their work for free, even if there are other people (in compliance with the license) who can.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 46
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1703993138 {#2122
    date: 2023-12-31 04:25:38.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@actual_patience@programming.dev"
    "@Lmaydev@programming.dev"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2041 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2053 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2054 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2055 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2341 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2105 …}
  -id: 266546
  -bodyTs: "'/migrated/gpl%20enforcement%20cases).':17 'amount':27 'anyon':71 'appar':135 'appli':148 'best':21,35 'buy':22,36 'case':33 'cisco':19 'common':4 'compani':81 'complet':68,162 'compli':101,131 'complianc':191 'contain':50 'copyright':52 'coupl':7 'court':14 'disagre':159 'doesn':166 'end':76 'end-us':75 'enough':137 'even':11,184 'exchang':122 'fine':163 'free':69,98,183 'give':41 'gone':12 'gpl':55,60,88 'gpl-licens':54,87 'hilari':38 'import':136 'instead':152 'inventori':46 'licens':56,61,89,107,126,151,194 'mean':67,92,168 'misconcept':5 'monetari':121 'money':29 'need':129 'nontrivi':26 'one':156 'particular':150 'pay':25 'peopl':140,189 'plaintiff':44,59 'resel':85,175 'softwar':51,90,144,177 'sudden':174 'term':104,127 'time':8 'tvs':48 'use':73,179 'user':77 'want':83 'wiki.fsfe.org':16 'wiki.fsfe.org/migrated/gpl%20enforcement%20cases).':15 'work':181 'world':66 'wrote':142"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.world/comment/6314028"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703993138 {#2334
    date: 2023-12-31 04:25:38.0 +01:00
  }
}

3

DENIED

edit

App\Entity\EntryComment {#2106
  +user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2337 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2343 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104 …}
  +body: """
    This is a common misconception. A couple times, it’s even [gone to court](https://wiki.fsfe.org/Migrated/GPL%20Enforcement%20Cases). Both Cisco and Best Buy had to pay nontrivial amounts of money, and in the case of Best Buy, it hilariously had to *give to the plaintiffs its inventory of TVs* which contained software copyrighted and GPL-licensed by the plaintiffs.\n
    \n
    GPL licensed does not in any world mean “completely free for anyone to use”. For end-users, it does. For companies that want to resell the GPL-licensed software, it means, you can do it for free *if you comply with the terms of the license*, and if you don’t, then you can’t. There’s not a monetary exchange, but there are licensing terms you need to comply with which were apparently important enough to the people that wrote the software for them to apply that particular license instead of some other one.\n
    \n
    If you disagree, that’s completely fine, but that doesn’t mean you can all of a sudden resell their software and use their work for free, even if there are other people (in compliance with the license) who can.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 46
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1703993138 {#2122
    date: 2023-12-31 04:25:38.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@actual_patience@programming.dev"
    "@Lmaydev@programming.dev"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2041 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2053 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2054 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2055 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2341 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2105 …}
  -id: 266546
  -bodyTs: "'/migrated/gpl%20enforcement%20cases).':17 'amount':27 'anyon':71 'appar':135 'appli':148 'best':21,35 'buy':22,36 'case':33 'cisco':19 'common':4 'compani':81 'complet':68,162 'compli':101,131 'complianc':191 'contain':50 'copyright':52 'coupl':7 'court':14 'disagre':159 'doesn':166 'end':76 'end-us':75 'enough':137 'even':11,184 'exchang':122 'fine':163 'free':69,98,183 'give':41 'gone':12 'gpl':55,60,88 'gpl-licens':54,87 'hilari':38 'import':136 'instead':152 'inventori':46 'licens':56,61,89,107,126,151,194 'mean':67,92,168 'misconcept':5 'monetari':121 'money':29 'need':129 'nontrivi':26 'one':156 'particular':150 'pay':25 'peopl':140,189 'plaintiff':44,59 'resel':85,175 'softwar':51,90,144,177 'sudden':174 'term':104,127 'time':8 'tvs':48 'use':73,179 'user':77 'want':83 'wiki.fsfe.org':16 'wiki.fsfe.org/migrated/gpl%20enforcement%20cases).':15 'work':181 'world':66 'wrote':142"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.world/comment/6314028"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703993138 {#2334
    date: 2023-12-31 04:25:38.0 +01:00
  }
}

4

DENIED

moderate

App\Entity\EntryComment {#2106
  +user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2337 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2343 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104 …}
  +body: """
    This is a common misconception. A couple times, it’s even [gone to court](https://wiki.fsfe.org/Migrated/GPL%20Enforcement%20Cases). Both Cisco and Best Buy had to pay nontrivial amounts of money, and in the case of Best Buy, it hilariously had to *give to the plaintiffs its inventory of TVs* which contained software copyrighted and GPL-licensed by the plaintiffs.\n
    \n
    GPL licensed does not in any world mean “completely free for anyone to use”. For end-users, it does. For companies that want to resell the GPL-licensed software, it means, you can do it for free *if you comply with the terms of the license*, and if you don’t, then you can’t. There’s not a monetary exchange, but there are licensing terms you need to comply with which were apparently important enough to the people that wrote the software for them to apply that particular license instead of some other one.\n
    \n
    If you disagree, that’s completely fine, but that doesn’t mean you can all of a sudden resell their software and use their work for free, even if there are other people (in compliance with the license) who can.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 46
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1703993138 {#2122
    date: 2023-12-31 04:25:38.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@actual_patience@programming.dev"
    "@Lmaydev@programming.dev"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2041 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2053 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2054 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2055 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2341 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2105 …}
  -id: 266546
  -bodyTs: "'/migrated/gpl%20enforcement%20cases).':17 'amount':27 'anyon':71 'appar':135 'appli':148 'best':21,35 'buy':22,36 'case':33 'cisco':19 'common':4 'compani':81 'complet':68,162 'compli':101,131 'complianc':191 'contain':50 'copyright':52 'coupl':7 'court':14 'disagre':159 'doesn':166 'end':76 'end-us':75 'enough':137 'even':11,184 'exchang':122 'fine':163 'free':69,98,183 'give':41 'gone':12 'gpl':55,60,88 'gpl-licens':54,87 'hilari':38 'import':136 'instead':152 'inventori':46 'licens':56,61,89,107,126,151,194 'mean':67,92,168 'misconcept':5 'monetari':121 'money':29 'need':129 'nontrivi':26 'one':156 'particular':150 'pay':25 'peopl':140,189 'plaintiff':44,59 'resel':85,175 'softwar':51,90,144,177 'sudden':174 'term':104,127 'time':8 'tvs':48 'use':73,179 'user':77 'want':83 'wiki.fsfe.org':16 'wiki.fsfe.org/migrated/gpl%20enforcement%20cases).':15 'work':181 'world':66 'wrote':142"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.world/comment/6314028"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703993138 {#2334
    date: 2023-12-31 04:25:38.0 +01:00
  }
}

5

DENIED

ROLE_USER

null

6

DENIED

moderate

App\Entity\EntryComment {#2326
  +user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2337 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2343 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
  +body: """
    I wasn’t too psyched about reading this article, but I was surprised at how sensible it is – among a bunch of pretty good points he makes, this is one of them:\n
    \n
    > Another straw burdening the Open Source camel, Perens writes, “is that Open Source has completely failed to serve the common person. For the most part, if they use us at all they do so through a proprietary software company’s systems, like Apple iOS or Google Android, both of which use Open Source for infrastructure but the apps are mostly proprietary. The common person doesn’t know about Open Source, they don’t know about the freedoms we promote which are increasingly in their interest. Indeed, Open Source is used today to surveil and even oppress them.”\n
    \n
    From the end user’s point of view, there is absolutely no open-source-ness to your Android phone. (BSD which iOS is based on was always designed to make this a possibility, but the GPL was not.) They’re using all this software which was supposed to be authored under this theory of GPL, but except for the thinnest thinnest veneer of theoretical source availability, it’s proprietary software at this point.\n
    \n
    RMS actually talked about this. He laid out this vision of this bright future where you’d always have access to the source code for all the software on your computer and the rights to take a look at it or build on it or modify it, and some reporter said, well yes but what about all these other urgent problems that are ruining the world with private industry trying to make money at all costs and destroy it all. And RMS said, more or less: Yes. It bothers me a lot. But I don’t really know about that, and I know software, and I felt like in this one specific area I could write a bunch of software and solve this one problem in this one area where I felt like I could make a difference. If other people could get to to work on these other more urgent problems that’d be great, because they also bother me a lot.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 35
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1710923414 {#2107
    date: 2024-03-20 09:30:14.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@actual_patience@programming.dev"
    "@actual_patience@programming.dev"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2329 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2331 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2060 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2042 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2332 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2351 …}
  -id: 266289
  -bodyTs: "'absolut':140 'access':223 'actual':205 'also':362 'alway':157,221 'among':19 'android':79,148 'anoth':33 'app':90 'appl':75 'area':316,332 'articl':9 'author':180 'avail':196 'base':154 'bother':292,363 'bright':216 'bsd':150 'build':245 'bunch':21,321 'burden':35 'camel':39 'code':227 'common':52,95 'compani':71 'complet':47 'comput':234 'cost':279 'could':318,338,345 'd':220,357 'design':158 'destroy':281 'differ':341 'doesn':97 'end':132 'even':127 'except':187 'fail':48 'felt':310,335 'freedom':109 'futur':217 'get':346 'good':24 'googl':78 'gpl':166,185 'great':359 'increas':114 'inde':118 'industri':272 'infrastructur':87 'interest':117 'io':76,152 'know':99,106,301,306 'laid':210 'less':289 'like':74,311,336 'look':241 'lot':295,366 'make':27,160,275,339 'modifi':249 'money':276 'most':92 'ness':145 'one':30,314,327,331 'open':37,44,84,101,119,143 'open-source-':142 'oppress':128 'part':57 'peopl':344 'peren':40 'person':53,96 'phone':149 'point':25,135,203 'possibl':163 'pretti':23 'privat':271 'problem':264,328,355 'promot':111 'proprietari':69,93,199 'psych':5 're':170 'read':7 'realli':300 'report':253 'right':237 'rms':204,285 'ruin':267 'said':254,286 'sensibl':16 'serv':50 'softwar':70,174,200,231,307,323 'solv':325 'sourc':38,45,85,102,120,144,195,226 'specif':315 'straw':34 'suppos':177 'surpris':13 'surveil':125 'system':73 'take':239 'talk':206 'theoret':194 'theori':183 'thinnest':190,191 'today':123 'tri':273 'urgent':263,354 'us':61 'use':60,83,122,171 'user':133 'veneer':192 'view':137 'vision':213 'wasn':2 'well':255 'work':349 'world':269 'write':41,319 'yes':256,290"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.world/comment/6312955"
  +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1709627506 {#2124
    date: 2024-03-05 09:31:46.0 +01:00
  }
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703986982 {#2121
    date: 2023-12-31 02:43:02.0 +01:00
  }
}

7

DENIED

edit

App\Entity\EntryComment {#2326
  +user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2337 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2343 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
  +body: """
    I wasn’t too psyched about reading this article, but I was surprised at how sensible it is – among a bunch of pretty good points he makes, this is one of them:\n
    \n
    > Another straw burdening the Open Source camel, Perens writes, “is that Open Source has completely failed to serve the common person. For the most part, if they use us at all they do so through a proprietary software company’s systems, like Apple iOS or Google Android, both of which use Open Source for infrastructure but the apps are mostly proprietary. The common person doesn’t know about Open Source, they don’t know about the freedoms we promote which are increasingly in their interest. Indeed, Open Source is used today to surveil and even oppress them.”\n
    \n
    From the end user’s point of view, there is absolutely no open-source-ness to your Android phone. (BSD which iOS is based on was always designed to make this a possibility, but the GPL was not.) They’re using all this software which was supposed to be authored under this theory of GPL, but except for the thinnest thinnest veneer of theoretical source availability, it’s proprietary software at this point.\n
    \n
    RMS actually talked about this. He laid out this vision of this bright future where you’d always have access to the source code for all the software on your computer and the rights to take a look at it or build on it or modify it, and some reporter said, well yes but what about all these other urgent problems that are ruining the world with private industry trying to make money at all costs and destroy it all. And RMS said, more or less: Yes. It bothers me a lot. But I don’t really know about that, and I know software, and I felt like in this one specific area I could write a bunch of software and solve this one problem in this one area where I felt like I could make a difference. If other people could get to to work on these other more urgent problems that’d be great, because they also bother me a lot.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 35
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1710923414 {#2107
    date: 2024-03-20 09:30:14.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@actual_patience@programming.dev"
    "@actual_patience@programming.dev"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2329 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2331 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2060 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2042 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2332 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2351 …}
  -id: 266289
  -bodyTs: "'absolut':140 'access':223 'actual':205 'also':362 'alway':157,221 'among':19 'android':79,148 'anoth':33 'app':90 'appl':75 'area':316,332 'articl':9 'author':180 'avail':196 'base':154 'bother':292,363 'bright':216 'bsd':150 'build':245 'bunch':21,321 'burden':35 'camel':39 'code':227 'common':52,95 'compani':71 'complet':47 'comput':234 'cost':279 'could':318,338,345 'd':220,357 'design':158 'destroy':281 'differ':341 'doesn':97 'end':132 'even':127 'except':187 'fail':48 'felt':310,335 'freedom':109 'futur':217 'get':346 'good':24 'googl':78 'gpl':166,185 'great':359 'increas':114 'inde':118 'industri':272 'infrastructur':87 'interest':117 'io':76,152 'know':99,106,301,306 'laid':210 'less':289 'like':74,311,336 'look':241 'lot':295,366 'make':27,160,275,339 'modifi':249 'money':276 'most':92 'ness':145 'one':30,314,327,331 'open':37,44,84,101,119,143 'open-source-':142 'oppress':128 'part':57 'peopl':344 'peren':40 'person':53,96 'phone':149 'point':25,135,203 'possibl':163 'pretti':23 'privat':271 'problem':264,328,355 'promot':111 'proprietari':69,93,199 'psych':5 're':170 'read':7 'realli':300 'report':253 'right':237 'rms':204,285 'ruin':267 'said':254,286 'sensibl':16 'serv':50 'softwar':70,174,200,231,307,323 'solv':325 'sourc':38,45,85,102,120,144,195,226 'specif':315 'straw':34 'suppos':177 'surpris':13 'surveil':125 'system':73 'take':239 'talk':206 'theoret':194 'theori':183 'thinnest':190,191 'today':123 'tri':273 'urgent':263,354 'us':61 'use':60,83,122,171 'user':133 'veneer':192 'view':137 'vision':213 'wasn':2 'well':255 'work':349 'world':269 'write':41,319 'yes':256,290"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.world/comment/6312955"
  +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1709627506 {#2124
    date: 2024-03-05 09:31:46.0 +01:00
  }
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703986982 {#2121
    date: 2023-12-31 02:43:02.0 +01:00
  }
}

8

DENIED

moderate

App\Entity\EntryComment {#2326
  +user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2337 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2343 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
  +body: """
    I wasn’t too psyched about reading this article, but I was surprised at how sensible it is – among a bunch of pretty good points he makes, this is one of them:\n
    \n
    > Another straw burdening the Open Source camel, Perens writes, “is that Open Source has completely failed to serve the common person. For the most part, if they use us at all they do so through a proprietary software company’s systems, like Apple iOS or Google Android, both of which use Open Source for infrastructure but the apps are mostly proprietary. The common person doesn’t know about Open Source, they don’t know about the freedoms we promote which are increasingly in their interest. Indeed, Open Source is used today to surveil and even oppress them.”\n
    \n
    From the end user’s point of view, there is absolutely no open-source-ness to your Android phone. (BSD which iOS is based on was always designed to make this a possibility, but the GPL was not.) They’re using all this software which was supposed to be authored under this theory of GPL, but except for the thinnest thinnest veneer of theoretical source availability, it’s proprietary software at this point.\n
    \n
    RMS actually talked about this. He laid out this vision of this bright future where you’d always have access to the source code for all the software on your computer and the rights to take a look at it or build on it or modify it, and some reporter said, well yes but what about all these other urgent problems that are ruining the world with private industry trying to make money at all costs and destroy it all. And RMS said, more or less: Yes. It bothers me a lot. But I don’t really know about that, and I know software, and I felt like in this one specific area I could write a bunch of software and solve this one problem in this one area where I felt like I could make a difference. If other people could get to to work on these other more urgent problems that’d be great, because they also bother me a lot.
    """
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2302
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moderate

App\Entity\EntryComment {#2232
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    Violating the (spirit of) the license (without violating the letter, because of loopholes in the license) is exactly what Perens is talking about.\n
    \n
    He’s not “complaining he isn’t getting paid.” I think it’s pretty rare that the people working on open source software are actually hurting for money or anything. He’s complaining that the actual practice of how the software is being used, RHEL and Android on phones and etc, isn’t doing well at reflecting the vision of the computing world the GPL was supposed to create. Then, as one possible solution, he’s proposing to kill two birds with one stone with a new license where the companies that are skirting the license right now can have to fund the development of particular types of open source software that need to get done anyway but is lacking right now (because of lack of profit motive).\n
    \n
    You might or might not agree with his thesis; as much as I think it’s interesting and insightful I have some reservations about it. I just thought you were misunderstanding his whole argument as being in terms of money, that’s all.
    """
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edit

App\Entity\EntryComment {#2232
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    Violating the (spirit of) the license (without violating the letter, because of loopholes in the license) is exactly what Perens is talking about.\n
    \n
    He’s not “complaining he isn’t getting paid.” I think it’s pretty rare that the people working on open source software are actually hurting for money or anything. He’s complaining that the actual practice of how the software is being used, RHEL and Android on phones and etc, isn’t doing well at reflecting the vision of the computing world the GPL was supposed to create. Then, as one possible solution, he’s proposing to kill two birds with one stone with a new license where the companies that are skirting the license right now can have to fund the development of particular types of open source software that need to get done anyway but is lacking right now (because of lack of profit motive).\n
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    You might or might not agree with his thesis; as much as I think it’s interesting and insightful I have some reservations about it. I just thought you were misunderstanding his whole argument as being in terms of money, that’s all.
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DENIED

moderate

App\Entity\EntryComment {#2232
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    Violating the (spirit of) the license (without violating the letter, because of loopholes in the license) is exactly what Perens is talking about.\n
    \n
    He’s not “complaining he isn’t getting paid.” I think it’s pretty rare that the people working on open source software are actually hurting for money or anything. He’s complaining that the actual practice of how the software is being used, RHEL and Android on phones and etc, isn’t doing well at reflecting the vision of the computing world the GPL was supposed to create. Then, as one possible solution, he’s proposing to kill two birds with one stone with a new license where the companies that are skirting the license right now can have to fund the development of particular types of open source software that need to get done anyway but is lacking right now (because of lack of profit motive).\n
    \n
    You might or might not agree with his thesis; as much as I think it’s interesting and insightful I have some reservations about it. I just thought you were misunderstanding his whole argument as being in terms of money, that’s all.
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2160
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    Generally speaking I agree; I like how Perens is thinking about it.\n
    \n
    I do think it’s pretty well established that the GPL “has teeth” though. [The FSF has a list](https://wiki.fsfe.org/Migrated/GPL%20Enforcement%20Cases) of enforcement cases against fairly large defendants; it looks like their record is 2 for 2 in the US. I think it rarely comes up, just because complying with the terms of the license is so no-brainer-ly easier than trying to make the legal argument that you can use someone else’s stuff for free while thumbing your nose at the terms and conditions they want you to abide by in order to do that.\n
    \n
    I think most of the “big company ignores the GPL” things you hear about are either things like RHEL, where they’re carefully skirting the line in a clearly bad-faith way that has some decent chance in court for some particular reason, or else someone breaking the GPL and then their legal department looking at it for 2 seconds and telling them to stop doing that. The cases where someone with anything to lose actually doubles down and says “fuck you” are rare I think for pretty obvious reasons.\n
    \n
    (Also, I just learned this today: When Best Buy did this in 2009, the judge eventually *made them give the plaintiffs the TVs* as part of the damages when it was all done. That’s the funniest thing I’ve heard all week.)
    """
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edit

App\Entity\EntryComment {#2160
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    Generally speaking I agree; I like how Perens is thinking about it.\n
    \n
    I do think it’s pretty well established that the GPL “has teeth” though. [The FSF has a list](https://wiki.fsfe.org/Migrated/GPL%20Enforcement%20Cases) of enforcement cases against fairly large defendants; it looks like their record is 2 for 2 in the US. I think it rarely comes up, just because complying with the terms of the license is so no-brainer-ly easier than trying to make the legal argument that you can use someone else’s stuff for free while thumbing your nose at the terms and conditions they want you to abide by in order to do that.\n
    \n
    I think most of the “big company ignores the GPL” things you hear about are either things like RHEL, where they’re carefully skirting the line in a clearly bad-faith way that has some decent chance in court for some particular reason, or else someone breaking the GPL and then their legal department looking at it for 2 seconds and telling them to stop doing that. The cases where someone with anything to lose actually doubles down and says “fuck you” are rare I think for pretty obvious reasons.\n
    \n
    (Also, I just learned this today: When Best Buy did this in 2009, the judge eventually *made them give the plaintiffs the TVs* as part of the damages when it was all done. That’s the funniest thing I’ve heard all week.)
    """
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24

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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2160
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    Generally speaking I agree; I like how Perens is thinking about it.\n
    \n
    I do think it’s pretty well established that the GPL “has teeth” though. [The FSF has a list](https://wiki.fsfe.org/Migrated/GPL%20Enforcement%20Cases) of enforcement cases against fairly large defendants; it looks like their record is 2 for 2 in the US. I think it rarely comes up, just because complying with the terms of the license is so no-brainer-ly easier than trying to make the legal argument that you can use someone else’s stuff for free while thumbing your nose at the terms and conditions they want you to abide by in order to do that.\n
    \n
    I think most of the “big company ignores the GPL” things you hear about are either things like RHEL, where they’re carefully skirting the line in a clearly bad-faith way that has some decent chance in court for some particular reason, or else someone breaking the GPL and then their legal department looking at it for 2 seconds and telling them to stop doing that. The cases where someone with anything to lose actually doubles down and says “fuck you” are rare I think for pretty obvious reasons.\n
    \n
    (Also, I just learned this today: When Best Buy did this in 2009, the judge eventually *made them give the plaintiffs the TVs* as part of the damages when it was all done. That’s the funniest thing I’ve heard all week.)
    """
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2282
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      I wasn’t too psyched about reading this article, but I was surprised at how sensible it is – among a bunch of pretty good points he makes, this is one of them:\n
      \n
      > Another straw burdening the Open Source camel, Perens writes, “is that Open Source has completely failed to serve the common person. For the most part, if they use us at all they do so through a proprietary software company’s systems, like Apple iOS or Google Android, both of which use Open Source for infrastructure but the apps are mostly proprietary. The common person doesn’t know about Open Source, they don’t know about the freedoms we promote which are increasingly in their interest. Indeed, Open Source is used today to surveil and even oppress them.”\n
      \n
      From the end user’s point of view, there is absolutely no open-source-ness to your Android phone. (BSD which iOS is based on was always designed to make this a possibility, but the GPL was not.) They’re using all this software which was supposed to be authored under this theory of GPL, but except for the thinnest thinnest veneer of theoretical source availability, it’s proprietary software at this point.\n
      \n
      RMS actually talked about this. He laid out this vision of this bright future where you’d always have access to the source code for all the software on your computer and the rights to take a look at it or build on it or modify it, and some reporter said, well yes but what about all these other urgent problems that are ruining the world with private industry trying to make money at all costs and destroy it all. And RMS said, more or less: Yes. It bothers me a lot. But I don’t really know about that, and I know software, and I felt like in this one specific area I could write a bunch of software and solve this one problem in this one area where I felt like I could make a difference. If other people could get to to work on these other more urgent problems that’d be great, because they also bother me a lot.
      """
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    > Can you elaborate on this?\n
    \n
    I think we’re saying the same thing; maybe I worded it confusingly. BSD is supposed to allow proprietary-ization, and GPL is supposed to prevent it. Apple is within both the letter and spirit of the BSD license with what they’re doing with iOS. Google is *technically* within the letter of the GPL with how they distribute Android, just as Redhat is *technically* within it in how they distribute RHEL, and honestly maybe both cases are fine, but it’s far from the intent. The spirit of the GPL is that people who would receive an Android phone would know that the relevant parts of their phone’s software are open source and have a realistic ability to modify them, which I’d argue is true for pretty much 0% of even tech-savvy users today.\n
    \n
    > If the courts would just back that up, you would be able to recompile all the GPL’d parts of your smartphone’s firmware and run that on your phone.\n
    \n
    Firmware? You mean kernel, right? (in addition to whatever low-level userland tools are GPLd, which I’m sure is a bunch.)\n
    \n
    I don’t think Google really did anything wrong here. The letter of the law is being upheld pretty well in what *they’re* doing. I think the issue is the cell phone manufacturers making it de facto impossible to modify your cell phone. I don’t think the GPL actually makes any requirement for modifying the software in-place being a requirement (nor should it IMO), and providing the source code is done carefully in accordance with the license. It’s very different from the “fuck you I take your stuff, sue me hippie” stance that Broadcom took. Broadcom very clearly broke the law.\n
    \n
    In my opinion, the issue is that a cell phone is such a free-software-hostile environment that arguably GPL software shouldn’t “be allowed to” come into contact with it in any capacity if the spirit of the GPL were being upheld. IDK how you can write something like that into a license though. And I think that’s what Perens is saying – that we need a new model that comes closer to the spirit in terms of what the actual result is.\n
    \n
    (Edit: Actually, maybe making it a realistic possibility to drop in a recompiled replacement *should* be a part of the GPL. I remember people were talking about this decades ago with signed bootloaders and things, so that a recompiled kernel wouldn’t boot on particular machines unless you broke the DMCA by doing something to your hardware. I said I wouldn’t like any attempt in the license to forbid that, but on reflection, it sounds like maybe a pretty good way to better uphold the spirit of the GPL with particular legal language.)
    """
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27

DENIED

edit

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      I wasn’t too psyched about reading this article, but I was surprised at how sensible it is – among a bunch of pretty good points he makes, this is one of them:\n
      \n
      > Another straw burdening the Open Source camel, Perens writes, “is that Open Source has completely failed to serve the common person. For the most part, if they use us at all they do so through a proprietary software company’s systems, like Apple iOS or Google Android, both of which use Open Source for infrastructure but the apps are mostly proprietary. The common person doesn’t know about Open Source, they don’t know about the freedoms we promote which are increasingly in their interest. Indeed, Open Source is used today to surveil and even oppress them.”\n
      \n
      From the end user’s point of view, there is absolutely no open-source-ness to your Android phone. (BSD which iOS is based on was always designed to make this a possibility, but the GPL was not.) They’re using all this software which was supposed to be authored under this theory of GPL, but except for the thinnest thinnest veneer of theoretical source availability, it’s proprietary software at this point.\n
      \n
      RMS actually talked about this. He laid out this vision of this bright future where you’d always have access to the source code for all the software on your computer and the rights to take a look at it or build on it or modify it, and some reporter said, well yes but what about all these other urgent problems that are ruining the world with private industry trying to make money at all costs and destroy it all. And RMS said, more or less: Yes. It bothers me a lot. But I don’t really know about that, and I know software, and I felt like in this one specific area I could write a bunch of software and solve this one problem in this one area where I felt like I could make a difference. If other people could get to to work on these other more urgent problems that’d be great, because they also bother me a lot.
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    > Can you elaborate on this?\n
    \n
    I think we’re saying the same thing; maybe I worded it confusingly. BSD is supposed to allow proprietary-ization, and GPL is supposed to prevent it. Apple is within both the letter and spirit of the BSD license with what they’re doing with iOS. Google is *technically* within the letter of the GPL with how they distribute Android, just as Redhat is *technically* within it in how they distribute RHEL, and honestly maybe both cases are fine, but it’s far from the intent. The spirit of the GPL is that people who would receive an Android phone would know that the relevant parts of their phone’s software are open source and have a realistic ability to modify them, which I’d argue is true for pretty much 0% of even tech-savvy users today.\n
    \n
    > If the courts would just back that up, you would be able to recompile all the GPL’d parts of your smartphone’s firmware and run that on your phone.\n
    \n
    Firmware? You mean kernel, right? (in addition to whatever low-level userland tools are GPLd, which I’m sure is a bunch.)\n
    \n
    I don’t think Google really did anything wrong here. The letter of the law is being upheld pretty well in what *they’re* doing. I think the issue is the cell phone manufacturers making it de facto impossible to modify your cell phone. I don’t think the GPL actually makes any requirement for modifying the software in-place being a requirement (nor should it IMO), and providing the source code is done carefully in accordance with the license. It’s very different from the “fuck you I take your stuff, sue me hippie” stance that Broadcom took. Broadcom very clearly broke the law.\n
    \n
    In my opinion, the issue is that a cell phone is such a free-software-hostile environment that arguably GPL software shouldn’t “be allowed to” come into contact with it in any capacity if the spirit of the GPL were being upheld. IDK how you can write something like that into a license though. And I think that’s what Perens is saying – that we need a new model that comes closer to the spirit in terms of what the actual result is.\n
    \n
    (Edit: Actually, maybe making it a realistic possibility to drop in a recompiled replacement *should* be a part of the GPL. I remember people were talking about this decades ago with signed bootloaders and things, so that a recompiled kernel wouldn’t boot on particular machines unless you broke the DMCA by doing something to your hardware. I said I wouldn’t like any attempt in the license to forbid that, but on reflection, it sounds like maybe a pretty good way to better uphold the spirit of the GPL with particular legal language.)
    """
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28

DENIED

moderate

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      I wasn’t too psyched about reading this article, but I was surprised at how sensible it is – among a bunch of pretty good points he makes, this is one of them:\n
      \n
      > Another straw burdening the Open Source camel, Perens writes, “is that Open Source has completely failed to serve the common person. For the most part, if they use us at all they do so through a proprietary software company’s systems, like Apple iOS or Google Android, both of which use Open Source for infrastructure but the apps are mostly proprietary. The common person doesn’t know about Open Source, they don’t know about the freedoms we promote which are increasingly in their interest. Indeed, Open Source is used today to surveil and even oppress them.”\n
      \n
      From the end user’s point of view, there is absolutely no open-source-ness to your Android phone. (BSD which iOS is based on was always designed to make this a possibility, but the GPL was not.) They’re using all this software which was supposed to be authored under this theory of GPL, but except for the thinnest thinnest veneer of theoretical source availability, it’s proprietary software at this point.\n
      \n
      RMS actually talked about this. He laid out this vision of this bright future where you’d always have access to the source code for all the software on your computer and the rights to take a look at it or build on it or modify it, and some reporter said, well yes but what about all these other urgent problems that are ruining the world with private industry trying to make money at all costs and destroy it all. And RMS said, more or less: Yes. It bothers me a lot. But I don’t really know about that, and I know software, and I felt like in this one specific area I could write a bunch of software and solve this one problem in this one area where I felt like I could make a difference. If other people could get to to work on these other more urgent problems that’d be great, because they also bother me a lot.
      """
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    > Can you elaborate on this?\n
    \n
    I think we’re saying the same thing; maybe I worded it confusingly. BSD is supposed to allow proprietary-ization, and GPL is supposed to prevent it. Apple is within both the letter and spirit of the BSD license with what they’re doing with iOS. Google is *technically* within the letter of the GPL with how they distribute Android, just as Redhat is *technically* within it in how they distribute RHEL, and honestly maybe both cases are fine, but it’s far from the intent. The spirit of the GPL is that people who would receive an Android phone would know that the relevant parts of their phone’s software are open source and have a realistic ability to modify them, which I’d argue is true for pretty much 0% of even tech-savvy users today.\n
    \n
    > If the courts would just back that up, you would be able to recompile all the GPL’d parts of your smartphone’s firmware and run that on your phone.\n
    \n
    Firmware? You mean kernel, right? (in addition to whatever low-level userland tools are GPLd, which I’m sure is a bunch.)\n
    \n
    I don’t think Google really did anything wrong here. The letter of the law is being upheld pretty well in what *they’re* doing. I think the issue is the cell phone manufacturers making it de facto impossible to modify your cell phone. I don’t think the GPL actually makes any requirement for modifying the software in-place being a requirement (nor should it IMO), and providing the source code is done carefully in accordance with the license. It’s very different from the “fuck you I take your stuff, sue me hippie” stance that Broadcom took. Broadcom very clearly broke the law.\n
    \n
    In my opinion, the issue is that a cell phone is such a free-software-hostile environment that arguably GPL software shouldn’t “be allowed to” come into contact with it in any capacity if the spirit of the GPL were being upheld. IDK how you can write something like that into a license though. And I think that’s what Perens is saying – that we need a new model that comes closer to the spirit in terms of what the actual result is.\n
    \n
    (Edit: Actually, maybe making it a realistic possibility to drop in a recompiled replacement *should* be a part of the GPL. I remember people were talking about this decades ago with signed bootloaders and things, so that a recompiled kernel wouldn’t boot on particular machines unless you broke the DMCA by doing something to your hardware. I said I wouldn’t like any attempt in the license to forbid that, but on reflection, it sounds like maybe a pretty good way to better uphold the spirit of the GPL with particular legal language.)
    """
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    > Collard and colleagues first published their finger amputation thesis a few years ago but were criticised by other scientists, who argued that the amputation of fingers would have been catastrophic for the people involved. Men and women without fully functioning hands would be unable to cope with the harsh conditions that prevailed millennia ago.\n
    \n
    Sounds pretty fair.\n
    \n
    > Since then, Collard, working with PhD student Brea McCauley, has gathered more data to back the amputation thesis. In a paper presented at the European Society conference, they said their latest research provided even more convincing evidence that the removal of digits to appease deities explains the hand images in the caves in France and Spain.\n
    \n
    Oh really? Sorta interesting, okay, what’s the evidence?\n
    \n
    > The team looked elsewhere for evidence of finger amputation in other societies and found more than 100 instances where it had been practised. “This practice was clearly invented independently multiple times,” they state. “And it was engaged in by some recent hunter-gatherer societies, so it is entirely possible that the groups at Gargas and the other caves engaged in the practice.”\n
    \n
    …\n
    \n
    That is not convincing evidence.\n
    \n
    Sure, it’s possible. If someone assembled some data that showed that in the modern day, ritual amputation is way more common quantitatively than accidental loss of digits, and showed that they were able to reject some other plausible explanations (e.g. showing that there wasn’t a particularly cold climate in that area that would cause frostbite to be more common than normal), then sure. But that’s not this paper, it sounds like.
    """
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31

DENIED

edit

App\Entity\EntryComment {#2195
  +user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
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    > Collard and colleagues first published their finger amputation thesis a few years ago but were criticised by other scientists, who argued that the amputation of fingers would have been catastrophic for the people involved. Men and women without fully functioning hands would be unable to cope with the harsh conditions that prevailed millennia ago.\n
    \n
    Sounds pretty fair.\n
    \n
    > Since then, Collard, working with PhD student Brea McCauley, has gathered more data to back the amputation thesis. In a paper presented at the European Society conference, they said their latest research provided even more convincing evidence that the removal of digits to appease deities explains the hand images in the caves in France and Spain.\n
    \n
    Oh really? Sorta interesting, okay, what’s the evidence?\n
    \n
    > The team looked elsewhere for evidence of finger amputation in other societies and found more than 100 instances where it had been practised. “This practice was clearly invented independently multiple times,” they state. “And it was engaged in by some recent hunter-gatherer societies, so it is entirely possible that the groups at Gargas and the other caves engaged in the practice.”\n
    \n
    …\n
    \n
    That is not convincing evidence.\n
    \n
    Sure, it’s possible. If someone assembled some data that showed that in the modern day, ritual amputation is way more common quantitatively than accidental loss of digits, and showed that they were able to reject some other plausible explanations (e.g. showing that there wasn’t a particularly cold climate in that area that would cause frostbite to be more common than normal), then sure. But that’s not this paper, it sounds like.
    """
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32

DENIED

moderate

App\Entity\EntryComment {#2195
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    > Collard and colleagues first published their finger amputation thesis a few years ago but were criticised by other scientists, who argued that the amputation of fingers would have been catastrophic for the people involved. Men and women without fully functioning hands would be unable to cope with the harsh conditions that prevailed millennia ago.\n
    \n
    Sounds pretty fair.\n
    \n
    > Since then, Collard, working with PhD student Brea McCauley, has gathered more data to back the amputation thesis. In a paper presented at the European Society conference, they said their latest research provided even more convincing evidence that the removal of digits to appease deities explains the hand images in the caves in France and Spain.\n
    \n
    Oh really? Sorta interesting, okay, what’s the evidence?\n
    \n
    > The team looked elsewhere for evidence of finger amputation in other societies and found more than 100 instances where it had been practised. “This practice was clearly invented independently multiple times,” they state. “And it was engaged in by some recent hunter-gatherer societies, so it is entirely possible that the groups at Gargas and the other caves engaged in the practice.”\n
    \n
    …\n
    \n
    That is not convincing evidence.\n
    \n
    Sure, it’s possible. If someone assembled some data that showed that in the modern day, ritual amputation is way more common quantitatively than accidental loss of digits, and showed that they were able to reject some other plausible explanations (e.g. showing that there wasn’t a particularly cold climate in that area that would cause frostbite to be more common than normal), then sure. But that’s not this paper, it sounds like.
    """
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33

DENIED

ROLE_USER

null

34

DENIED

moderate

App\Entity\EntryComment {#2266
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    I have some small amount of experience with this, but based on the little I know, here’s what I can say. First question is what is your goal? To get customers, or to create a community? Below is general advice but it’s hard to say just talking about it in the abstract.\n
    \n
    If you want a community, I would probably advise to just treat it as one more channel, have separate pages in Meta / X / Fediverse / Pinterest or whatever as separate communities, since in a lot of cases there won’t be overlap between them. I wouldn’t recommend abandoning your existing Meta or X pages to set up a Fediverse page *instead*, although making a contingency plan for the slow motion demise of Meta as a platform for the long term seems like a good idea.\n
    \n
    If you want to drive sales, then for me Google Ads always worked better than buying advertising on Meta or X or etc anyway. Have you measured conversion numbers from Meta? They make it easy to spend money definitely, but I always found the ROI in terms of pure paid sales to be pretty bad from them.
    """
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    date: 2023-11-26 23:34:13.0 +01:00
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}

35

DENIED

edit

App\Entity\EntryComment {#2266
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  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2257 …}
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    I have some small amount of experience with this, but based on the little I know, here’s what I can say. First question is what is your goal? To get customers, or to create a community? Below is general advice but it’s hard to say just talking about it in the abstract.\n
    \n
    If you want a community, I would probably advise to just treat it as one more channel, have separate pages in Meta / X / Fediverse / Pinterest or whatever as separate communities, since in a lot of cases there won’t be overlap between them. I wouldn’t recommend abandoning your existing Meta or X pages to set up a Fediverse page *instead*, although making a contingency plan for the slow motion demise of Meta as a platform for the long term seems like a good idea.\n
    \n
    If you want to drive sales, then for me Google Ads always worked better than buying advertising on Meta or X or etc anyway. Have you measured conversion numbers from Meta? They make it easy to spend money definitely, but I always found the ROI in terms of pure paid sales to be pretty bad from them.
    """
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36

DENIED

moderate

App\Entity\EntryComment {#2266
  +user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
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    I have some small amount of experience with this, but based on the little I know, here’s what I can say. First question is what is your goal? To get customers, or to create a community? Below is general advice but it’s hard to say just talking about it in the abstract.\n
    \n
    If you want a community, I would probably advise to just treat it as one more channel, have separate pages in Meta / X / Fediverse / Pinterest or whatever as separate communities, since in a lot of cases there won’t be overlap between them. I wouldn’t recommend abandoning your existing Meta or X pages to set up a Fediverse page *instead*, although making a contingency plan for the slow motion demise of Meta as a platform for the long term seems like a good idea.\n
    \n
    If you want to drive sales, then for me Google Ads always worked better than buying advertising on Meta or X or etc anyway. Have you measured conversion numbers from Meta? They make it easy to spend money definitely, but I always found the ROI in terms of pure paid sales to be pretty bad from them.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 7
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701830019 {#2194
    date: 2023-12-06 03:33:39.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Fox@feddit.nu"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2267 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2271 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2272 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2253 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2262 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2264 …}
  -id: 168229
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  +downVotes: 0
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  +apId: "https://lemmy.world/comment/5607885"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701038053 {#2199
    date: 2023-11-26 23:34:13.0 +01:00
  }
}

37

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null

38

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moderate

App\Entity\EntryComment {#2240
  +user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2236 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2233 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
  +body: """
    That’s just the UI that shows you other communities where the same link has been posted.\n
    \n
    If you want to create a cross-post like that for an existing post that has a URL, just make a new one with the same URL. If you want to create one for a text-only post, I think that’s not possible though.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 5
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1704588230 {#2270
    date: 2024-01-07 01:43:50.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Kalcifer@sh.itjust.works"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2226 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2238 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2249 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2259 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2244 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2250 …}
  -id: 287276
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  +ranking: 0
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  +downVotes: 0
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  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704588230 {#2211
    date: 2024-01-07 01:43:50.0 +01:00
  }
}

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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2240
  +user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2236 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2233 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
  +body: """
    That’s just the UI that shows you other communities where the same link has been posted.\n
    \n
    If you want to create a cross-post like that for an existing post that has a URL, just make a new one with the same URL. If you want to create one for a text-only post, I think that’s not possible though.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 5
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1704588230 {#2270
    date: 2024-01-07 01:43:50.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Kalcifer@sh.itjust.works"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2226 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2238 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2249 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2259 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2244 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2250 …}
  -id: 287276
  -bodyTs: "'communiti':10 'creat':22,50 'cross':25 'cross-post':24 'exist':31 'like':27 'link':14 'make':38 'new':40 'one':41,51 'possibl':63 'post':17,26,32,57 'show':7 'text':55 'text-on':54 'think':59 'though':64 'ui':5 'url':36,45 'want':20,48"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
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  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
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  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704588230 {#2211
    date: 2024-01-07 01:43:50.0 +01:00
  }
}

40

DENIED

moderate

App\Entity\EntryComment {#2240
  +user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2236 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2233 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
  +body: """
    That’s just the UI that shows you other communities where the same link has been posted.\n
    \n
    If you want to create a cross-post like that for an existing post that has a URL, just make a new one with the same URL. If you want to create one for a text-only post, I think that’s not possible though.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 5
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1704588230 {#2270
    date: 2024-01-07 01:43:50.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Kalcifer@sh.itjust.works"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2226 …}
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  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2249 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2259 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2244 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2250 …}
  -id: 287276
  -bodyTs: "'communiti':10 'creat':22,50 'cross':25 'cross-post':24 'exist':31 'like':27 'link':14 'make':38 'new':40 'one':41,51 'possibl':63 'post':17,26,32,57 'show':7 'text':55 'text-on':54 'think':59 'though':64 'ui':5 'url':36,45 'want':20,48"
  +ranking: 0
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  +apId: "https://lemmy.world/comment/6466791"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704588230 {#2211
    date: 2024-01-07 01:43:50.0 +01:00
  }
}

41

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ROLE_USER

null

42

DENIED

moderate

App\Entity\EntryComment {#2243
  +user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2337 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2343 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2247 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104 …}
  +body: """
    They were selling TVs with GPL-licensed software inside without complying with the terms of the GPL. When challenged, their defense was some version of “But it’s completely free for anyone to use!”\n
    \n
    They didn’t have to give up every one of their TVs of any model, just the infringing models (the ones that used Busybox without complying with the GPL).
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 4
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1704039149 {#2239
    date: 2023-12-31 17:12:29.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
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    "@actual_patience@programming.dev"
    "@Lmaydev@programming.dev"
    "@mo_ztt@lemmy.world"
    "@library_napper@monyet.cc"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2255 …}
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  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2285 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2287 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2142 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2039 …}
  -id: 267573
  -bodyTs: "'anyon':33 'busybox':59 'challeng':20 'complet':30 'compli':12,61 'defens':22 'didn':37 'everi':43 'free':31 'give':41 'gpl':7,18,64 'gpl-licens':6 'infring':53 'insid':10 'licens':8 'model':50,54 'one':44,56 'sell':3 'softwar':9 'term':15 'tvs':4,47 'use':35,58 'version':25 'without':11,60"
  +ranking: 0
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  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.world/comment/6319855"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704039149 {#2242
    date: 2023-12-31 17:12:29.0 +01:00
  }
}

43

DENIED

edit

App\Entity\EntryComment {#2243
  +user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2337 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2343 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2247 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104 …}
  +body: """
    They were selling TVs with GPL-licensed software inside without complying with the terms of the GPL. When challenged, their defense was some version of “But it’s completely free for anyone to use!”\n
    \n
    They didn’t have to give up every one of their TVs of any model, just the infringing models (the ones that used Busybox without complying with the GPL).
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 4
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1704039149 {#2239
    date: 2023-12-31 17:12:29.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@actual_patience@programming.dev"
    "@Lmaydev@programming.dev"
    "@mo_ztt@lemmy.world"
    "@library_napper@monyet.cc"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2255 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2251 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2285 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2287 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2142 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2039 …}
  -id: 267573
  -bodyTs: "'anyon':33 'busybox':59 'challeng':20 'complet':30 'compli':12,61 'defens':22 'didn':37 'everi':43 'free':31 'give':41 'gpl':7,18,64 'gpl-licens':6 'infring':53 'insid':10 'licens':8 'model':50,54 'one':44,56 'sell':3 'softwar':9 'term':15 'tvs':4,47 'use':35,58 'version':25 'without':11,60"
  +ranking: 0
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  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.world/comment/6319855"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704039149 {#2242
    date: 2023-12-31 17:12:29.0 +01:00
  }
}

44

DENIED

moderate

App\Entity\EntryComment {#2243
  +user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2337 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2343 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2247 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104 …}
  +body: """
    They were selling TVs with GPL-licensed software inside without complying with the terms of the GPL. When challenged, their defense was some version of “But it’s completely free for anyone to use!”\n
    \n
    They didn’t have to give up every one of their TVs of any model, just the infringing models (the ones that used Busybox without complying with the GPL).
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 4
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1704039149 {#2239
    date: 2023-12-31 17:12:29.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@actual_patience@programming.dev"
    "@Lmaydev@programming.dev"
    "@mo_ztt@lemmy.world"
    "@library_napper@monyet.cc"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2255 …}
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  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2287 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2142 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2039 …}
  -id: 267573
  -bodyTs: "'anyon':33 'busybox':59 'challeng':20 'complet':30 'compli':12,61 'defens':22 'didn':37 'everi':43 'free':31 'give':41 'gpl':7,18,64 'gpl-licens':6 'infring':53 'insid':10 'licens':8 'model':50,54 'one':44,56 'sell':3 'softwar':9 'term':15 'tvs':4,47 'use':35,58 'version':25 'without':11,60"
  +ranking: 0
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  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.world/comment/6319855"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704039149 {#2242
    date: 2023-12-31 17:12:29.0 +01:00
  }
}

45

DENIED

ROLE_USER

null

46

DENIED

moderate

App\Entity\EntryComment {#2158
  +user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2337 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2343 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2157 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104 …}
  +body: "I think mostly they prefer for people to just fix their delivery to comply with the license, as opposed to causing antagonism towards the community by going straight to a lawsuit. But yes, there are definitely teeth to it if some company for whatever reason doesn’t want to fix their infringement."
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 3
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1704123345 {#2248
    date: 2024-01-01 16:35:45.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@actual_patience@programming.dev"
    "@Lmaydev@programming.dev"
    "@mo_ztt@lemmy.world"
    "@library_napper@monyet.cc"
  ]
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  -id: 270410
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  +ranking: 0
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    date: 2024-01-01 16:35:45.0 +01:00
  }
}

47

DENIED

edit

App\Entity\EntryComment {#2158
  +user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2337 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2343 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2157 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104 …}
  +body: "I think mostly they prefer for people to just fix their delivery to comply with the license, as opposed to causing antagonism towards the community by going straight to a lawsuit. But yes, there are definitely teeth to it if some company for whatever reason doesn’t want to fix their infringement."
  +lang: "en"
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    date: 2024-01-01 16:35:45.0 +01:00
  }
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    "@actual_patience@programming.dev"
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    "@mo_ztt@lemmy.world"
    "@library_napper@monyet.cc"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2151 …}
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  -id: 270410
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  +ranking: 0
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  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704123345 {#2245
    date: 2024-01-01 16:35:45.0 +01:00
  }
}

48

DENIED

moderate

App\Entity\EntryComment {#2158
  +user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2337 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2343 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2157 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104 …}
  +body: "I think mostly they prefer for people to just fix their delivery to comply with the license, as opposed to causing antagonism towards the community by going straight to a lawsuit. But yes, there are definitely teeth to it if some company for whatever reason doesn’t want to fix their infringement."
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
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    date: 2024-01-01 16:35:45.0 +01:00
  }
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    "@library_napper@monyet.cc"
  ]
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  -id: 270410
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  +ranking: 0
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  +visibility: "visible             "
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  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1704123345 {#2245
    date: 2024-01-01 16:35:45.0 +01:00
  }
}

49

DENIED

ROLE_USER

null

50

DENIED

moderate

App\Entity\EntryComment {#2171
  +user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2337 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2343 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2172 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2104 …}
  +body: "The entire linked article is talking about “open source” in terms of the GPL specifically."
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
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  +lastActive: DateTime @1704046312 {#2154
    date: 2023-12-31 19:11:52.0 +01:00
  }
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    "@actual_patience@programming.dev"
    "@Lmaydev@programming.dev"
    "@mo_ztt@lemmy.world"
    "@PixxlMan@lemmy.world"
  ]
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  -id: 267824
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  +ranking: 0
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2134
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57

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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2000
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59

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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2000
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60

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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2000
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