Symfony Profiler

Key	Value
provider	security.user.provider.concrete.app_user_provider
context	main
entry_point	App\Security\KbinAuthenticator
user_checker	App\Security\UserChecker
access_denied_handler	(none)
access_denied_url	(none)
authenticators	[`"two_factor" "remember_me" "App\Security\KbinAuthenticator" "App\Security\FacebookAuthenticator" "App\Security\GoogleAuthenticator" "App\Security\GithubAuthenticator" "App\Security\KeycloakAuthenticator"`]

Listener	Duration	Response
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ChannelListener {#723`-map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …} -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …} -httpPort: 80 -httpsPort: 443`}	0.00 ms	(none)
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ContextListener {#706-tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\TokenStorage {#1017 …} -sessionKey: "_security_main" -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …} -userProviders: Symfony\Component\DependencyInjection\Argument\RewindableGenerator {#705 …} -dispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …} -registered: false -trustResolver: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authentication\AuthenticationTrustResolver {#780 …} -sessionTrackerEnabler: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage::enableUsageTracking(): void {#703 …}}	11.32 ms	(none)
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AuthenticatorManagerListener {#584`-authenticatorManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Authentication\AuthenticatorManager {#595 …}`}	0.00 ms	(none)
Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Http\Firewall\TwoFactorAccessListener {#582`-twoFactorFirewallConfig: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\TwoFactor\TwoFactorFirewallConfig {#842 …} -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …} -twoFactorAccessDecider: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\TwoFactorAccessDecider {#581 …}`}	0.05 ms	(none)
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AccessListener {#579`-tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …} -accessDecisionManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\TraceableAccessDecisionManager {#937 …} -map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …}`}	0.00 ms	(none)
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\LogoutListener {#786`-tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …} -options: [ "csrf_parameter" => "_csrf_token" "csrf_token_id" => "logout" "logout_path" => "app_logout" ] -httpUtils: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\HttpUtils {#841 …} -csrfTokenManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Csrf\CsrfTokenManager {#1015 …} -eventDispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …}`}	0.00 ms	(none)

#	Voter class
1	"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\AuthenticatedVoter"
2	"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
3	"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
4	"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\ExpressionVoter"
5	"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
6	"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
7	"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
8	"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
9	"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
10	"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
11	"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
12	"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
13	"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
14	"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"

1

DENIED

ROLE_USER

null

2

DENIED

moderate

Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2121
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2375 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1732 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2509 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2511 …}
  +slug: "alternative-to-trees"
  +title: "alternative to trees"
  +url: "https://feddit.de/pictrs/image/49d0fcc9-f304-4052-aa7a-46734efea3bf.jpeg"
  +body: null
  +type: "image"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: true
  +commentCount: 217
  +favouriteCount: 1047
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1728663959 {#2504
    date: 2024-10-11 18:25:59.0 +02:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2512 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2514 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2516 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2518 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2520 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2522 …}
  +children: [
    App\Entity\EntryComment {#2117
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2121 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1732 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2122 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2122 …}
      +body: "Traffic has trouble in urban areas with a lot of trees"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 3
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701867577 {#2114
        date: 2023-12-06 13:59:37.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@sexy_peach@feddit.de"
        "@brown567@sh.itjust.works"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2115 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2123 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2116 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2161 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2163 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2044 …}
      -id: 202770
      -bodyTs: "'area':6 'lot':9 'traffic':1 'tree':11 'troubl':3 'urban':5"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://discuss.tchncs.de/comment/5480853"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701867577 {#2118
        date: 2023-12-06 13:59:37.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 202770
    }
  ]
  -id: 20483
  -titleTs: "'altern':1 'tree':3"
  -bodyTs: null
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1701905082
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/post/6409431"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701818682 {#2491
    date: 2023-12-06 00:24:42.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}

3

DENIED

edit

Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2121
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2375 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1732 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2509 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2511 …}
  +slug: "alternative-to-trees"
  +title: "alternative to trees"
  +url: "https://feddit.de/pictrs/image/49d0fcc9-f304-4052-aa7a-46734efea3bf.jpeg"
  +body: null
  +type: "image"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: true
  +commentCount: 217
  +favouriteCount: 1047
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1728663959 {#2504
    date: 2024-10-11 18:25:59.0 +02:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2512 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2514 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2516 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2518 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2520 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2522 …}
  +children: [
    App\Entity\EntryComment {#2117
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2121 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1732 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2122 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2122 …}
      +body: "Traffic has trouble in urban areas with a lot of trees"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 3
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701867577 {#2114
        date: 2023-12-06 13:59:37.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@sexy_peach@feddit.de"
        "@brown567@sh.itjust.works"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2115 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2123 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2116 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2161 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2163 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2044 …}
      -id: 202770
      -bodyTs: "'area':6 'lot':9 'traffic':1 'tree':11 'troubl':3 'urban':5"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://discuss.tchncs.de/comment/5480853"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701867577 {#2118
        date: 2023-12-06 13:59:37.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 202770
    }
  ]
  -id: 20483
  -titleTs: "'altern':1 'tree':3"
  -bodyTs: null
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1701905082
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/post/6409431"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701818682 {#2491
    date: 2023-12-06 00:24:42.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}

4

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moderate

Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2121
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2375 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1732 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2509 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2511 …}
  +slug: "alternative-to-trees"
  +title: "alternative to trees"
  +url: "https://feddit.de/pictrs/image/49d0fcc9-f304-4052-aa7a-46734efea3bf.jpeg"
  +body: null
  +type: "image"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: true
  +commentCount: 217
  +favouriteCount: 1047
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1728663959 {#2504
    date: 2024-10-11 18:25:59.0 +02:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2512 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2514 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2516 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2518 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2520 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2522 …}
  +children: [
    App\Entity\EntryComment {#2117
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2121 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1732 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2122 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2122 …}
      +body: "Traffic has trouble in urban areas with a lot of trees"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 3
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1701867577 {#2114
        date: 2023-12-06 13:59:37.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@sexy_peach@feddit.de"
        "@brown567@sh.itjust.works"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2115 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2123 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2116 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2161 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2163 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2044 …}
      -id: 202770
      -bodyTs: "'area':6 'lot':9 'traffic':1 'tree':11 'troubl':3 'urban':5"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://discuss.tchncs.de/comment/5480853"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701867577 {#2118
        date: 2023-12-06 13:59:37.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 202770
    }
  ]
  -id: 20483
  -titleTs: "'altern':1 'tree':3"
  -bodyTs: null
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1701905082
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/post/6409431"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701818682 {#2491
    date: 2023-12-06 00:24:42.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}

5

DENIED

ROLE_USER

null

6

DENIED

moderate

App\Entity\EntryComment {#2117
  +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2121
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2375 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1732 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2509 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2511 …}
    +slug: "alternative-to-trees"
    +title: "alternative to trees"
    +url: "https://feddit.de/pictrs/image/49d0fcc9-f304-4052-aa7a-46734efea3bf.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 217
    +favouriteCount: 1047
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1728663959 {#2504
      date: 2024-10-11 18:25:59.0 +02:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2512 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2514 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2516 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2518 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2520 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2522 …}
    +children: [
      App\Entity\EntryComment {#2117}
    ]
    -id: 20483
    -titleTs: "'altern':1 'tree':3"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1701905082
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://feddit.de/post/6409431"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701818682 {#2491
      date: 2023-12-06 00:24:42.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1732 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2122 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2122 …}
  +body: "Traffic has trouble in urban areas with a lot of trees"
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 3
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701867577 {#2114
    date: 2023-12-06 13:59:37.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@sexy_peach@feddit.de"
    "@brown567@sh.itjust.works"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2115 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2123 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2116 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2161 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2163 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2044 …}
  -id: 202770
  -bodyTs: "'area':6 'lot':9 'traffic':1 'tree':11 'troubl':3 'urban':5"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://discuss.tchncs.de/comment/5480853"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701867577 {#2118
    date: 2023-12-06 13:59:37.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 202770
}

7

DENIED

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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2117
  +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2121
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2375 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1732 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2509 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2511 …}
    +slug: "alternative-to-trees"
    +title: "alternative to trees"
    +url: "https://feddit.de/pictrs/image/49d0fcc9-f304-4052-aa7a-46734efea3bf.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 217
    +favouriteCount: 1047
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1728663959 {#2504
      date: 2024-10-11 18:25:59.0 +02:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2512 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2514 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2516 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2518 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2520 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2522 …}
    +children: [
      App\Entity\EntryComment {#2117}
    ]
    -id: 20483
    -titleTs: "'altern':1 'tree':3"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1701905082
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://feddit.de/post/6409431"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701818682 {#2491
      date: 2023-12-06 00:24:42.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1732 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2122 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2122 …}
  +body: "Traffic has trouble in urban areas with a lot of trees"
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 3
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1701867577 {#2114
    date: 2023-12-06 13:59:37.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@sexy_peach@feddit.de"
    "@brown567@sh.itjust.works"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2115 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2123 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2116 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2161 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2163 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2044 …}
  -id: 202770
  -bodyTs: "'area':6 'lot':9 'traffic':1 'tree':11 'troubl':3 'urban':5"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://discuss.tchncs.de/comment/5480853"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701867577 {#2118
    date: 2023-12-06 13:59:37.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 202770
}

8

DENIED

moderate

App\Entity\EntryComment {#2117
  +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2121
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2375 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1732 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2509 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2511 …}
    +slug: "alternative-to-trees"
    +title: "alternative to trees"
    +url: "https://feddit.de/pictrs/image/49d0fcc9-f304-4052-aa7a-46734efea3bf.jpeg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 217
    +favouriteCount: 1047
    +score: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +sticky: false
    +lastActive: DateTime @1728663959 {#2504
      date: 2024-10-11 18:25:59.0 +02:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2512 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2514 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2516 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2518 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2520 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2522 …}
    +children: [
      App\Entity\EntryComment {#2117}
    ]
    -id: 20483
    -titleTs: "'altern':1 'tree':3"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1701905082
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://feddit.de/post/6409431"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701818682 {#2491
      date: 2023-12-06 00:24:42.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1732 …}
  +image: null
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9

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null

10

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moderate

Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2306
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2306
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2307
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17

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null

18

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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2192
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21

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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2252
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2252
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2139
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2139
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30

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32

DENIED

moderate

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33

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34

DENIED

moderate

App\Entity\Entry {#1734
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35

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App\Entity\Entry {#1734
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53

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  +slug: "How-to-improve-my-battery-measurement-circuit"
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  +body: """
    I am powering a 5V microcontroller (arduino clone, atmega328p) using a 9V block and a buck converter. Now I want to let the microcontroller occasionally measure the battery voltage, so I can get an idea of how full it is.\n
    \n
    My first idea was to use a simple voltage divider:\n
    \n
    ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/9d173f1d-8412-4129-8ae1-c549a7895107.png)\n
    \n
    I’ve chosen the resistor values so that:\n
    \n
    - the voltage at the measure output is `&lt; 1.1V`, to be able to use the 1.1V internal reference of the atmega’s ADC\n
    - `R1 || R2 &lt; 10kΩ`, since the atmega datasheet says “The ADC is optimized for analog signals with an output impedance of approximately 10 kΩ or less”\n
    \n
    This is great and all, but what bothers me is that this circuit will constantly draw ~100µA from the battery.\n
    \n
    So, my next thought was to add a mosfet to the divider, to switch it on only while measuring:\n
    \n
    ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/450dc371-58d0-4eb0-8f3b-4e76bf676bf4.png)\n
    \n
    This is obviously bad, because now when the mosfet is off, the ADC input sees the whole battery voltage.\n
    \n
    To address that issue, I’ve added a second mosfet into the measure path:\n
    \n
    ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/970e3840-fcbb-46dd-92fb-8903b89149a0.png)\n
    \n
    This works, and it does not draw any current, except while measuring.\n
    \n
    However, it’s quite a few parts. So I’m curious if anyone has an idea how to do this with just a single mosfet. It seems to me like it should be possible, but I haven’t figured out how.\n
    \n
    Oh, and if I’m doing something stupid here, please tell me :)
    """
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      +body: """
        > You could probably increase the 82K and 10K resistors to be much bigger\n
        \n
        That’s what I thought initially, but [this stackoverflow post](https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/250759/how-many-ohm-is-the-adc-port-internal-resistance-of-the-atmega8#250767) dissuaded me. The argument there is that the measurement will be wrong, if the input current is not enough to charge the internal cap within the measurement period. But I’ve done some testing now, and measurements done with 820k and 100k agree well with what my voltmeter measures, so I’ll go with this solution!\n
        \n
        > a fresh alkaline 9V battery is actually 9.6V or more, not 9V.\n
        \n
        Indeed! `9.6V * 10k/92k = 1.04V` is still below 1.1V, so I should be fine in this case :)\n
        \n
        > 9V battery voltages droop noticeably when under load because of their high internal resistance. Make sure to measure under the same conditions.\n
        \n
        This is a good point!\n
        \n
        My firmware will be pretty monotonic though, basically:\n
        \n
        1. wake up\n
        2. measure battery\n
        3. measure some other sensors (the actual task of the device)\n
        4. turn on a transceiver, send all the measurements (including battery voltage)\n
        5. turn off transceiver &amp; go to sleep\n
        \n
        So, the load should be always the same at step (2).
        """
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      +body: """
        > Could you do similar to diagram 2, but instead of an N-FET use a P-FET between the battery and first resistor in the potential divider?\n
        \n
        That’s a great idea! Unfortunately I don’t have a P-FET lying around, so cannot try it right now.\n
        \n
        > Or use a zener/TVS diode instead of second resistor to clamp the voltage instead of dividing (more robust).\n
        \n
        Not sure I understand this point. Which resistor would you replace with a diode?
        """
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        date: 2023-08-25 11:05:53.0 +02:00
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    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333
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      +body: """
        Hm, I don’t understand how this is supposed to work - is that a n-channel or p-channel FET?\n
        \n
        When I sketch it using falstad’s circuitjs, it looks like the FET (n-channel) is a little bit on all the time\n
        \n
        ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/dae3ca56-da12-4a48-a023-d3c08c614efb.png)\n
        \n
        and fully on, when a pulse is applied\n
        \n
        ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/e929b967-601c-4796-8b42-1f17de54f037.png)\n
        \n
        Source:\n
        \n
        spoiler`$ 1 0.000005 10.20027730826997 50 5 43 5e-11 r 144 80 144 176 0 1000 r 0 192 96 192 0 100 t 96 192 144 192 0 1 -8.999999980890745 9.099999980846458e-10 100 default c 144 176 304 176 0 0.000001 -1.7996761414451612e-8 0 f 304 176 384 176 32 2 0.02 d 304 80 304 176 2 default r 384 192 384 272 0 1000 r 384 272 384 352 0 1000 g 384 352 384 384 0 0 g 144 208 144 256 0 0 w 144 80 304 80 0 w 384 160 384 80 0 w 384 80 304 80 0 v 528 256 528 208 0 0 40 9 0 0 0.5 w 528 256 528 352 0 w 528 352 384 352 0 w 528 208 528 80 0 w 528 80 384 80 0 g -48 208 -48 256 0 0 R -48 176 -48 128 0 0 40 5 0 0 0.5 S 0 192 -48 192 0 0 false 0 2 p 384 272 272 272 3 0 0 g 272 272 272 304 0 0`___
        """
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        date: 2023-08-25 13:51:21.0 +02:00
      }
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        date: 2023-08-25 13:50:18.0 +02:00
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    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2135
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      +body: """
        Nice, than you for sharing!\n
        \n
        I won’t be using this for my measurement issue (the other options are much simpler, and i was aiming for less parts, not more), but I’ll do some experiments to familiarize myself with bootstrapping
        """
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    date: 2023-08-25 09:05:37.0 +02:00
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}

55

DENIED

edit

App\Entity\Entry {#1599
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  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1752 …}
  +slug: "How-to-improve-my-battery-measurement-circuit"
  +title: "How to improve my battery measurement circuit?"
  +url: null
  +body: """
    I am powering a 5V microcontroller (arduino clone, atmega328p) using a 9V block and a buck converter. Now I want to let the microcontroller occasionally measure the battery voltage, so I can get an idea of how full it is.\n
    \n
    My first idea was to use a simple voltage divider:\n
    \n
    ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/9d173f1d-8412-4129-8ae1-c549a7895107.png)\n
    \n
    I’ve chosen the resistor values so that:\n
    \n
    - the voltage at the measure output is `&lt; 1.1V`, to be able to use the 1.1V internal reference of the atmega’s ADC\n
    - `R1 || R2 &lt; 10kΩ`, since the atmega datasheet says “The ADC is optimized for analog signals with an output impedance of approximately 10 kΩ or less”\n
    \n
    This is great and all, but what bothers me is that this circuit will constantly draw ~100µA from the battery.\n
    \n
    So, my next thought was to add a mosfet to the divider, to switch it on only while measuring:\n
    \n
    ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/450dc371-58d0-4eb0-8f3b-4e76bf676bf4.png)\n
    \n
    This is obviously bad, because now when the mosfet is off, the ADC input sees the whole battery voltage.\n
    \n
    To address that issue, I’ve added a second mosfet into the measure path:\n
    \n
    ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/970e3840-fcbb-46dd-92fb-8903b89149a0.png)\n
    \n
    This works, and it does not draw any current, except while measuring.\n
    \n
    However, it’s quite a few parts. So I’m curious if anyone has an idea how to do this with just a single mosfet. It seems to me like it should be possible, but I haven’t figured out how.\n
    \n
    Oh, and if I’m doing something stupid here, please tell me :)
    """
  +type: "article"
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    date: 2023-09-15 14:30:42.0 +02:00
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    3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2083
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#1599}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1654 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2097 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2097 …}
      +body: """
        > You could probably increase the 82K and 10K resistors to be much bigger\n
        \n
        That’s what I thought initially, but [this stackoverflow post](https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/250759/how-many-ohm-is-the-adc-port-internal-resistance-of-the-atmega8#250767) dissuaded me. The argument there is that the measurement will be wrong, if the input current is not enough to charge the internal cap within the measurement period. But I’ve done some testing now, and measurements done with 820k and 100k agree well with what my voltmeter measures, so I’ll go with this solution!\n
        \n
        > a fresh alkaline 9V battery is actually 9.6V or more, not 9V.\n
        \n
        Indeed! `9.6V * 10k/92k = 1.04V` is still below 1.1V, so I should be fine in this case :)\n
        \n
        > 9V battery voltages droop noticeably when under load because of their high internal resistance. Make sure to measure under the same conditions.\n
        \n
        This is a good point!\n
        \n
        My firmware will be pretty monotonic though, basically:\n
        \n
        1. wake up\n
        2. measure battery\n
        3. measure some other sensors (the actual task of the device)\n
        4. turn on a transceiver, send all the measurements (including battery voltage)\n
        5. turn off transceiver &amp; go to sleep\n
        \n
        So, the load should be always the same at step (2).
        """
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        date: 2023-08-25 11:03:17.0 +02:00
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    2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2347
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      +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#1599}
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      +body: """
        > Could you do similar to diagram 2, but instead of an N-FET use a P-FET between the battery and first resistor in the potential divider?\n
        \n
        That’s a great idea! Unfortunately I don’t have a P-FET lying around, so cannot try it right now.\n
        \n
        > Or use a zener/TVS diode instead of second resistor to clamp the voltage instead of dividing (more robust).\n
        \n
        Not sure I understand this point. Which resistor would you replace with a diode?
        """
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        "@nilclass@discuss.tchncs.de"
        "@Yonrak@feddit.uk"
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      -bodyTs: "'2':7 'around':45 'batteri':22 'cannot':47 'clamp':62 'could':1 'diagram':6 'diod':56,83 'divid':29,67 'fet':14,19,43 'first':24 'great':33 'idea':34 'instead':9,57,65 'lie':44 'n':13 'n-fet':12 'p':18,42 'p-fet':17,41 'point':75 'potenti':28 'replac':80 'resistor':25,60,77 'right':50 'robust':69 'second':59 'similar':4 'sure':71 'tri':48 'understand':73 'unfortun':35 'use':15,53 'voltag':64 'would':78 'zener/tvs':55"
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        date: 2023-08-25 11:05:53.0 +02:00
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    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333
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      +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#1599}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1654 …}
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2323 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2323 …}
      +body: """
        Hm, I don’t understand how this is supposed to work - is that a n-channel or p-channel FET?\n
        \n
        When I sketch it using falstad’s circuitjs, it looks like the FET (n-channel) is a little bit on all the time\n
        \n
        ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/dae3ca56-da12-4a48-a023-d3c08c614efb.png)\n
        \n
        and fully on, when a pulse is applied\n
        \n
        ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/e929b967-601c-4796-8b42-1f17de54f037.png)\n
        \n
        Source:\n
        \n
        spoiler`$ 1 0.000005 10.20027730826997 50 5 43 5e-11 r 144 80 144 176 0 1000 r 0 192 96 192 0 100 t 96 192 144 192 0 1 -8.999999980890745 9.099999980846458e-10 100 default c 144 176 304 176 0 0.000001 -1.7996761414451612e-8 0 f 304 176 384 176 32 2 0.02 d 304 80 304 176 2 default r 384 192 384 272 0 1000 r 384 272 384 352 0 1000 g 384 352 384 384 0 0 g 144 208 144 256 0 0 w 144 80 304 80 0 w 384 160 384 80 0 w 384 80 304 80 0 v 528 256 528 208 0 0 40 9 0 0 0.5 w 528 256 528 352 0 w 528 352 384 352 0 w 528 208 528 80 0 w 528 80 384 80 0 g -48 208 -48 256 0 0 R -48 176 -48 128 0 0 40 5 0 0 0.5 S 0 192 -48 192 0 0 false 0 2 p 384 272 272 272 3 0 0 g 272 272 272 304 0 0`___
        """
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        date: 2023-08-25 13:51:21.0 +02:00
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      +body: """
        Nice, than you for sharing!\n
        \n
        I won’t be using this for my measurement issue (the other options are much simpler, and i was aiming for less parts, not more), but I’ll do some experiments to familiarize myself with bootstrapping
        """
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}

56

DENIED

moderate

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  +slug: "How-to-improve-my-battery-measurement-circuit"
  +title: "How to improve my battery measurement circuit?"
  +url: null
  +body: """
    I am powering a 5V microcontroller (arduino clone, atmega328p) using a 9V block and a buck converter. Now I want to let the microcontroller occasionally measure the battery voltage, so I can get an idea of how full it is.\n
    \n
    My first idea was to use a simple voltage divider:\n
    \n
    ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/9d173f1d-8412-4129-8ae1-c549a7895107.png)\n
    \n
    I’ve chosen the resistor values so that:\n
    \n
    - the voltage at the measure output is `&lt; 1.1V`, to be able to use the 1.1V internal reference of the atmega’s ADC\n
    - `R1 || R2 &lt; 10kΩ`, since the atmega datasheet says “The ADC is optimized for analog signals with an output impedance of approximately 10 kΩ or less”\n
    \n
    This is great and all, but what bothers me is that this circuit will constantly draw ~100µA from the battery.\n
    \n
    So, my next thought was to add a mosfet to the divider, to switch it on only while measuring:\n
    \n
    ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/450dc371-58d0-4eb0-8f3b-4e76bf676bf4.png)\n
    \n
    This is obviously bad, because now when the mosfet is off, the ADC input sees the whole battery voltage.\n
    \n
    To address that issue, I’ve added a second mosfet into the measure path:\n
    \n
    ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/970e3840-fcbb-46dd-92fb-8903b89149a0.png)\n
    \n
    This works, and it does not draw any current, except while measuring.\n
    \n
    However, it’s quite a few parts. So I’m curious if anyone has an idea how to do this with just a single mosfet. It seems to me like it should be possible, but I haven’t figured out how.\n
    \n
    Oh, and if I’m doing something stupid here, please tell me :)
    """
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      +body: """
        > You could probably increase the 82K and 10K resistors to be much bigger\n
        \n
        That’s what I thought initially, but [this stackoverflow post](https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/250759/how-many-ohm-is-the-adc-port-internal-resistance-of-the-atmega8#250767) dissuaded me. The argument there is that the measurement will be wrong, if the input current is not enough to charge the internal cap within the measurement period. But I’ve done some testing now, and measurements done with 820k and 100k agree well with what my voltmeter measures, so I’ll go with this solution!\n
        \n
        > a fresh alkaline 9V battery is actually 9.6V or more, not 9V.\n
        \n
        Indeed! `9.6V * 10k/92k = 1.04V` is still below 1.1V, so I should be fine in this case :)\n
        \n
        > 9V battery voltages droop noticeably when under load because of their high internal resistance. Make sure to measure under the same conditions.\n
        \n
        This is a good point!\n
        \n
        My firmware will be pretty monotonic though, basically:\n
        \n
        1. wake up\n
        2. measure battery\n
        3. measure some other sensors (the actual task of the device)\n
        4. turn on a transceiver, send all the measurements (including battery voltage)\n
        5. turn off transceiver &amp; go to sleep\n
        \n
        So, the load should be always the same at step (2).
        """
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    2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2347
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      +body: """
        > Could you do similar to diagram 2, but instead of an N-FET use a P-FET between the battery and first resistor in the potential divider?\n
        \n
        That’s a great idea! Unfortunately I don’t have a P-FET lying around, so cannot try it right now.\n
        \n
        > Or use a zener/TVS diode instead of second resistor to clamp the voltage instead of dividing (more robust).\n
        \n
        Not sure I understand this point. Which resistor would you replace with a diode?
        """
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        "@Yonrak@feddit.uk"
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      +body: """
        Hm, I don’t understand how this is supposed to work - is that a n-channel or p-channel FET?\n
        \n
        When I sketch it using falstad’s circuitjs, it looks like the FET (n-channel) is a little bit on all the time\n
        \n
        ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/dae3ca56-da12-4a48-a023-d3c08c614efb.png)\n
        \n
        and fully on, when a pulse is applied\n
        \n
        ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/e929b967-601c-4796-8b42-1f17de54f037.png)\n
        \n
        Source:\n
        \n
        spoiler`$ 1 0.000005 10.20027730826997 50 5 43 5e-11 r 144 80 144 176 0 1000 r 0 192 96 192 0 100 t 96 192 144 192 0 1 -8.999999980890745 9.099999980846458e-10 100 default c 144 176 304 176 0 0.000001 -1.7996761414451612e-8 0 f 304 176 384 176 32 2 0.02 d 304 80 304 176 2 default r 384 192 384 272 0 1000 r 384 272 384 352 0 1000 g 384 352 384 384 0 0 g 144 208 144 256 0 0 w 144 80 304 80 0 w 384 160 384 80 0 w 384 80 304 80 0 v 528 256 528 208 0 0 40 9 0 0 0.5 w 528 256 528 352 0 w 528 352 384 352 0 w 528 208 528 80 0 w 528 80 384 80 0 g -48 208 -48 256 0 0 R -48 176 -48 128 0 0 40 5 0 0 0.5 S 0 192 -48 192 0 0 false 0 2 p 384 272 272 272 3 0 0 g 272 272 272 304 0 0`___
        """
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        date: 2023-08-25 13:51:21.0 +02:00
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        date: 2023-08-25 13:50:18.0 +02:00
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      +body: """
        Nice, than you for sharing!\n
        \n
        I won’t be using this for my measurement issue (the other options are much simpler, and i was aiming for less parts, not more), but I’ll do some experiments to familiarize myself with bootstrapping
        """
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    +slug: "How-to-improve-my-battery-measurement-circuit"
    +title: "How to improve my battery measurement circuit?"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      I am powering a 5V microcontroller (arduino clone, atmega328p) using a 9V block and a buck converter. Now I want to let the microcontroller occasionally measure the battery voltage, so I can get an idea of how full it is.\n
      \n
      My first idea was to use a simple voltage divider:\n
      \n
      ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/9d173f1d-8412-4129-8ae1-c549a7895107.png)\n
      \n
      I’ve chosen the resistor values so that:\n
      \n
      - the voltage at the measure output is `&lt; 1.1V`, to be able to use the 1.1V internal reference of the atmega’s ADC\n
      - `R1 || R2 &lt; 10kΩ`, since the atmega datasheet says “The ADC is optimized for analog signals with an output impedance of approximately 10 kΩ or less”\n
      \n
      This is great and all, but what bothers me is that this circuit will constantly draw ~100µA from the battery.\n
      \n
      So, my next thought was to add a mosfet to the divider, to switch it on only while measuring:\n
      \n
      ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/450dc371-58d0-4eb0-8f3b-4e76bf676bf4.png)\n
      \n
      This is obviously bad, because now when the mosfet is off, the ADC input sees the whole battery voltage.\n
      \n
      To address that issue, I’ve added a second mosfet into the measure path:\n
      \n
      ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/970e3840-fcbb-46dd-92fb-8903b89149a0.png)\n
      \n
      This works, and it does not draw any current, except while measuring.\n
      \n
      However, it’s quite a few parts. So I’m curious if anyone has an idea how to do this with just a single mosfet. It seems to me like it should be possible, but I haven’t figured out how.\n
      \n
      Oh, and if I’m doing something stupid here, please tell me :)
      """
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        +body: """
          > Could you do similar to diagram 2, but instead of an N-FET use a P-FET between the battery and first resistor in the potential divider?\n
          \n
          That’s a great idea! Unfortunately I don’t have a P-FET lying around, so cannot try it right now.\n
          \n
          > Or use a zener/TVS diode instead of second resistor to clamp the voltage instead of dividing (more robust).\n
          \n
          Not sure I understand this point. Which resistor would you replace with a diode?
          """
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        +body: """
          Hm, I don’t understand how this is supposed to work - is that a n-channel or p-channel FET?\n
          \n
          When I sketch it using falstad’s circuitjs, it looks like the FET (n-channel) is a little bit on all the time\n
          \n
          ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/dae3ca56-da12-4a48-a023-d3c08c614efb.png)\n
          \n
          and fully on, when a pulse is applied\n
          \n
          ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/e929b967-601c-4796-8b42-1f17de54f037.png)\n
          \n
          Source:\n
          \n
          spoiler`$ 1 0.000005 10.20027730826997 50 5 43 5e-11 r 144 80 144 176 0 1000 r 0 192 96 192 0 100 t 96 192 144 192 0 1 -8.999999980890745 9.099999980846458e-10 100 default c 144 176 304 176 0 0.000001 -1.7996761414451612e-8 0 f 304 176 384 176 32 2 0.02 d 304 80 304 176 2 default r 384 192 384 272 0 1000 r 384 272 384 352 0 1000 g 384 352 384 384 0 0 g 144 208 144 256 0 0 w 144 80 304 80 0 w 384 160 384 80 0 w 384 80 304 80 0 v 528 256 528 208 0 0 40 9 0 0 0.5 w 528 256 528 352 0 w 528 352 384 352 0 w 528 208 528 80 0 w 528 80 384 80 0 g -48 208 -48 256 0 0 R -48 176 -48 128 0 0 40 5 0 0 0.5 S 0 192 -48 192 0 0 false 0 2 p 384 272 272 272 3 0 0 g 272 272 272 304 0 0`___
          """
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        +body: """
          Nice, than you for sharing!\n
          \n
          I won’t be using this for my measurement issue (the other options are much simpler, and i was aiming for less parts, not more), but I’ll do some experiments to familiarize myself with bootstrapping
          """
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  +body: """
    > You could probably increase the 82K and 10K resistors to be much bigger\n
    \n
    That’s what I thought initially, but [this stackoverflow post](https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/250759/how-many-ohm-is-the-adc-port-internal-resistance-of-the-atmega8#250767) dissuaded me. The argument there is that the measurement will be wrong, if the input current is not enough to charge the internal cap within the measurement period. But I’ve done some testing now, and measurements done with 820k and 100k agree well with what my voltmeter measures, so I’ll go with this solution!\n
    \n
    > a fresh alkaline 9V battery is actually 9.6V or more, not 9V.\n
    \n
    Indeed! `9.6V * 10k/92k = 1.04V` is still below 1.1V, so I should be fine in this case :)\n
    \n
    > 9V battery voltages droop noticeably when under load because of their high internal resistance. Make sure to measure under the same conditions.\n
    \n
    This is a good point!\n
    \n
    My firmware will be pretty monotonic though, basically:\n
    \n
    1. wake up\n
    2. measure battery\n
    3. measure some other sensors (the actual task of the device)\n
    4. turn on a transceiver, send all the measurements (including battery voltage)\n
    5. turn off transceiver &amp; go to sleep\n
    \n
    So, the load should be always the same at step (2).
    """
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    +slug: "How-to-improve-my-battery-measurement-circuit"
    +title: "How to improve my battery measurement circuit?"
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    +body: """
      I am powering a 5V microcontroller (arduino clone, atmega328p) using a 9V block and a buck converter. Now I want to let the microcontroller occasionally measure the battery voltage, so I can get an idea of how full it is.\n
      \n
      My first idea was to use a simple voltage divider:\n
      \n
      ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/9d173f1d-8412-4129-8ae1-c549a7895107.png)\n
      \n
      I’ve chosen the resistor values so that:\n
      \n
      - the voltage at the measure output is `&lt; 1.1V`, to be able to use the 1.1V internal reference of the atmega’s ADC\n
      - `R1 || R2 &lt; 10kΩ`, since the atmega datasheet says “The ADC is optimized for analog signals with an output impedance of approximately 10 kΩ or less”\n
      \n
      This is great and all, but what bothers me is that this circuit will constantly draw ~100µA from the battery.\n
      \n
      So, my next thought was to add a mosfet to the divider, to switch it on only while measuring:\n
      \n
      ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/450dc371-58d0-4eb0-8f3b-4e76bf676bf4.png)\n
      \n
      This is obviously bad, because now when the mosfet is off, the ADC input sees the whole battery voltage.\n
      \n
      To address that issue, I’ve added a second mosfet into the measure path:\n
      \n
      ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/970e3840-fcbb-46dd-92fb-8903b89149a0.png)\n
      \n
      This works, and it does not draw any current, except while measuring.\n
      \n
      However, it’s quite a few parts. So I’m curious if anyone has an idea how to do this with just a single mosfet. It seems to me like it should be possible, but I haven’t figured out how.\n
      \n
      Oh, and if I’m doing something stupid here, please tell me :)
      """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2083}
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        +body: """
          > Could you do similar to diagram 2, but instead of an N-FET use a P-FET between the battery and first resistor in the potential divider?\n
          \n
          That’s a great idea! Unfortunately I don’t have a P-FET lying around, so cannot try it right now.\n
          \n
          > Or use a zener/TVS diode instead of second resistor to clamp the voltage instead of dividing (more robust).\n
          \n
          Not sure I understand this point. Which resistor would you replace with a diode?
          """
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          "@Yonrak@feddit.uk"
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        +body: """
          Hm, I don’t understand how this is supposed to work - is that a n-channel or p-channel FET?\n
          \n
          When I sketch it using falstad’s circuitjs, it looks like the FET (n-channel) is a little bit on all the time\n
          \n
          ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/dae3ca56-da12-4a48-a023-d3c08c614efb.png)\n
          \n
          and fully on, when a pulse is applied\n
          \n
          ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/e929b967-601c-4796-8b42-1f17de54f037.png)\n
          \n
          Source:\n
          \n
          spoiler`$ 1 0.000005 10.20027730826997 50 5 43 5e-11 r 144 80 144 176 0 1000 r 0 192 96 192 0 100 t 96 192 144 192 0 1 -8.999999980890745 9.099999980846458e-10 100 default c 144 176 304 176 0 0.000001 -1.7996761414451612e-8 0 f 304 176 384 176 32 2 0.02 d 304 80 304 176 2 default r 384 192 384 272 0 1000 r 384 272 384 352 0 1000 g 384 352 384 384 0 0 g 144 208 144 256 0 0 w 144 80 304 80 0 w 384 160 384 80 0 w 384 80 304 80 0 v 528 256 528 208 0 0 40 9 0 0 0.5 w 528 256 528 352 0 w 528 352 384 352 0 w 528 208 528 80 0 w 528 80 384 80 0 g -48 208 -48 256 0 0 R -48 176 -48 128 0 0 40 5 0 0 0.5 S 0 192 -48 192 0 0 false 0 2 p 384 272 272 272 3 0 0 g 272 272 272 304 0 0`___
          """
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          date: 2023-08-25 13:51:21.0 +02:00
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          date: 2023-08-25 13:50:18.0 +02:00
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        +body: """
          Nice, than you for sharing!\n
          \n
          I won’t be using this for my measurement issue (the other options are much simpler, and i was aiming for less parts, not more), but I’ll do some experiments to familiarize myself with bootstrapping
          """
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      date: 2023-08-25 09:07:12.0 +02:00
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      date: 2023-08-25 09:05:37.0 +02:00
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  +body: """
    > You could probably increase the 82K and 10K resistors to be much bigger\n
    \n
    That’s what I thought initially, but [this stackoverflow post](https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/250759/how-many-ohm-is-the-adc-port-internal-resistance-of-the-atmega8#250767) dissuaded me. The argument there is that the measurement will be wrong, if the input current is not enough to charge the internal cap within the measurement period. But I’ve done some testing now, and measurements done with 820k and 100k agree well with what my voltmeter measures, so I’ll go with this solution!\n
    \n
    > a fresh alkaline 9V battery is actually 9.6V or more, not 9V.\n
    \n
    Indeed! `9.6V * 10k/92k = 1.04V` is still below 1.1V, so I should be fine in this case :)\n
    \n
    > 9V battery voltages droop noticeably when under load because of their high internal resistance. Make sure to measure under the same conditions.\n
    \n
    This is a good point!\n
    \n
    My firmware will be pretty monotonic though, basically:\n
    \n
    1. wake up\n
    2. measure battery\n
    3. measure some other sensors (the actual task of the device)\n
    4. turn on a transceiver, send all the measurements (including battery voltage)\n
    5. turn off transceiver &amp; go to sleep\n
    \n
    So, the load should be always the same at step (2).
    """
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60

DENIED

moderate

App\Entity\EntryComment {#2083
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    +slug: "How-to-improve-my-battery-measurement-circuit"
    +title: "How to improve my battery measurement circuit?"
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    +body: """
      I am powering a 5V microcontroller (arduino clone, atmega328p) using a 9V block and a buck converter. Now I want to let the microcontroller occasionally measure the battery voltage, so I can get an idea of how full it is.\n
      \n
      My first idea was to use a simple voltage divider:\n
      \n
      ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/9d173f1d-8412-4129-8ae1-c549a7895107.png)\n
      \n
      I’ve chosen the resistor values so that:\n
      \n
      - the voltage at the measure output is `&lt; 1.1V`, to be able to use the 1.1V internal reference of the atmega’s ADC\n
      - `R1 || R2 &lt; 10kΩ`, since the atmega datasheet says “The ADC is optimized for analog signals with an output impedance of approximately 10 kΩ or less”\n
      \n
      This is great and all, but what bothers me is that this circuit will constantly draw ~100µA from the battery.\n
      \n
      So, my next thought was to add a mosfet to the divider, to switch it on only while measuring:\n
      \n
      ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/450dc371-58d0-4eb0-8f3b-4e76bf676bf4.png)\n
      \n
      This is obviously bad, because now when the mosfet is off, the ADC input sees the whole battery voltage.\n
      \n
      To address that issue, I’ve added a second mosfet into the measure path:\n
      \n
      ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/970e3840-fcbb-46dd-92fb-8903b89149a0.png)\n
      \n
      This works, and it does not draw any current, except while measuring.\n
      \n
      However, it’s quite a few parts. So I’m curious if anyone has an idea how to do this with just a single mosfet. It seems to me like it should be possible, but I haven’t figured out how.\n
      \n
      Oh, and if I’m doing something stupid here, please tell me :)
      """
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        +body: """
          > Could you do similar to diagram 2, but instead of an N-FET use a P-FET between the battery and first resistor in the potential divider?\n
          \n
          That’s a great idea! Unfortunately I don’t have a P-FET lying around, so cannot try it right now.\n
          \n
          > Or use a zener/TVS diode instead of second resistor to clamp the voltage instead of dividing (more robust).\n
          \n
          Not sure I understand this point. Which resistor would you replace with a diode?
          """
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          "@Yonrak@feddit.uk"
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        +body: """
          Hm, I don’t understand how this is supposed to work - is that a n-channel or p-channel FET?\n
          \n
          When I sketch it using falstad’s circuitjs, it looks like the FET (n-channel) is a little bit on all the time\n
          \n
          ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/dae3ca56-da12-4a48-a023-d3c08c614efb.png)\n
          \n
          and fully on, when a pulse is applied\n
          \n
          ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/e929b967-601c-4796-8b42-1f17de54f037.png)\n
          \n
          Source:\n
          \n
          spoiler`$ 1 0.000005 10.20027730826997 50 5 43 5e-11 r 144 80 144 176 0 1000 r 0 192 96 192 0 100 t 96 192 144 192 0 1 -8.999999980890745 9.099999980846458e-10 100 default c 144 176 304 176 0 0.000001 -1.7996761414451612e-8 0 f 304 176 384 176 32 2 0.02 d 304 80 304 176 2 default r 384 192 384 272 0 1000 r 384 272 384 352 0 1000 g 384 352 384 384 0 0 g 144 208 144 256 0 0 w 144 80 304 80 0 w 384 160 384 80 0 w 384 80 304 80 0 v 528 256 528 208 0 0 40 9 0 0 0.5 w 528 256 528 352 0 w 528 352 384 352 0 w 528 208 528 80 0 w 528 80 384 80 0 g -48 208 -48 256 0 0 R -48 176 -48 128 0 0 40 5 0 0 0.5 S 0 192 -48 192 0 0 false 0 2 p 384 272 272 272 3 0 0 g 272 272 272 304 0 0`___
          """
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          date: 2023-08-25 13:51:21.0 +02:00
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        +body: """
          Nice, than you for sharing!\n
          \n
          I won’t be using this for my measurement issue (the other options are much simpler, and i was aiming for less parts, not more), but I’ll do some experiments to familiarize myself with bootstrapping
          """
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      date: 2023-08-25 09:07:12.0 +02:00
    }
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      date: 2023-08-25 09:05:37.0 +02:00
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  }
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  +body: """
    > You could probably increase the 82K and 10K resistors to be much bigger\n
    \n
    That’s what I thought initially, but [this stackoverflow post](https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/250759/how-many-ohm-is-the-adc-port-internal-resistance-of-the-atmega8#250767) dissuaded me. The argument there is that the measurement will be wrong, if the input current is not enough to charge the internal cap within the measurement period. But I’ve done some testing now, and measurements done with 820k and 100k agree well with what my voltmeter measures, so I’ll go with this solution!\n
    \n
    > a fresh alkaline 9V battery is actually 9.6V or more, not 9V.\n
    \n
    Indeed! `9.6V * 10k/92k = 1.04V` is still below 1.1V, so I should be fine in this case :)\n
    \n
    > 9V battery voltages droop noticeably when under load because of their high internal resistance. Make sure to measure under the same conditions.\n
    \n
    This is a good point!\n
    \n
    My firmware will be pretty monotonic though, basically:\n
    \n
    1. wake up\n
    2. measure battery\n
    3. measure some other sensors (the actual task of the device)\n
    4. turn on a transceiver, send all the measurements (including battery voltage)\n
    5. turn off transceiver &amp; go to sleep\n
    \n
    So, the load should be always the same at step (2).
    """
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2347
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    +slug: "How-to-improve-my-battery-measurement-circuit"
    +title: "How to improve my battery measurement circuit?"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      I am powering a 5V microcontroller (arduino clone, atmega328p) using a 9V block and a buck converter. Now I want to let the microcontroller occasionally measure the battery voltage, so I can get an idea of how full it is.\n
      \n
      My first idea was to use a simple voltage divider:\n
      \n
      ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/9d173f1d-8412-4129-8ae1-c549a7895107.png)\n
      \n
      I’ve chosen the resistor values so that:\n
      \n
      - the voltage at the measure output is `&lt; 1.1V`, to be able to use the 1.1V internal reference of the atmega’s ADC\n
      - `R1 || R2 &lt; 10kΩ`, since the atmega datasheet says “The ADC is optimized for analog signals with an output impedance of approximately 10 kΩ or less”\n
      \n
      This is great and all, but what bothers me is that this circuit will constantly draw ~100µA from the battery.\n
      \n
      So, my next thought was to add a mosfet to the divider, to switch it on only while measuring:\n
      \n
      ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/450dc371-58d0-4eb0-8f3b-4e76bf676bf4.png)\n
      \n
      This is obviously bad, because now when the mosfet is off, the ADC input sees the whole battery voltage.\n
      \n
      To address that issue, I’ve added a second mosfet into the measure path:\n
      \n
      ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/970e3840-fcbb-46dd-92fb-8903b89149a0.png)\n
      \n
      This works, and it does not draw any current, except while measuring.\n
      \n
      However, it’s quite a few parts. So I’m curious if anyone has an idea how to do this with just a single mosfet. It seems to me like it should be possible, but I haven’t figured out how.\n
      \n
      Oh, and if I’m doing something stupid here, please tell me :)
      """
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        +body: """
          > You could probably increase the 82K and 10K resistors to be much bigger\n
          \n
          That’s what I thought initially, but [this stackoverflow post](https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/250759/how-many-ohm-is-the-adc-port-internal-resistance-of-the-atmega8#250767) dissuaded me. The argument there is that the measurement will be wrong, if the input current is not enough to charge the internal cap within the measurement period. But I’ve done some testing now, and measurements done with 820k and 100k agree well with what my voltmeter measures, so I’ll go with this solution!\n
          \n
          > a fresh alkaline 9V battery is actually 9.6V or more, not 9V.\n
          \n
          Indeed! `9.6V * 10k/92k = 1.04V` is still below 1.1V, so I should be fine in this case :)\n
          \n
          > 9V battery voltages droop noticeably when under load because of their high internal resistance. Make sure to measure under the same conditions.\n
          \n
          This is a good point!\n
          \n
          My firmware will be pretty monotonic though, basically:\n
          \n
          1. wake up\n
          2. measure battery\n
          3. measure some other sensors (the actual task of the device)\n
          4. turn on a transceiver, send all the measurements (including battery voltage)\n
          5. turn off transceiver &amp; go to sleep\n
          \n
          So, the load should be always the same at step (2).
          """
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          date: 2023-08-25 11:03:17.0 +02:00
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2347}
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#1599}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1654 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2323 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2323 …}
        +body: """
          Hm, I don’t understand how this is supposed to work - is that a n-channel or p-channel FET?\n
          \n
          When I sketch it using falstad’s circuitjs, it looks like the FET (n-channel) is a little bit on all the time\n
          \n
          ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/dae3ca56-da12-4a48-a023-d3c08c614efb.png)\n
          \n
          and fully on, when a pulse is applied\n
          \n
          ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/e929b967-601c-4796-8b42-1f17de54f037.png)\n
          \n
          Source:\n
          \n
          spoiler`$ 1 0.000005 10.20027730826997 50 5 43 5e-11 r 144 80 144 176 0 1000 r 0 192 96 192 0 100 t 96 192 144 192 0 1 -8.999999980890745 9.099999980846458e-10 100 default c 144 176 304 176 0 0.000001 -1.7996761414451612e-8 0 f 304 176 384 176 32 2 0.02 d 304 80 304 176 2 default r 384 192 384 272 0 1000 r 384 272 384 352 0 1000 g 384 352 384 384 0 0 g 144 208 144 256 0 0 w 144 80 304 80 0 w 384 160 384 80 0 w 384 80 304 80 0 v 528 256 528 208 0 0 40 9 0 0 0.5 w 528 256 528 352 0 w 528 352 384 352 0 w 528 208 528 80 0 w 528 80 384 80 0 g -48 208 -48 256 0 0 R -48 176 -48 128 0 0 40 5 0 0 0.5 S 0 192 -48 192 0 0 false 0 2 p 384 272 272 272 3 0 0 g 272 272 272 304 0 0`___
          """
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        +body: """
          Nice, than you for sharing!\n
          \n
          I won’t be using this for my measurement issue (the other options are much simpler, and i was aiming for less parts, not more), but I’ll do some experiments to familiarize myself with bootstrapping
          """
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      date: 2023-08-25 09:07:12.0 +02:00
    }
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      date: 2023-08-25 09:05:37.0 +02:00
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  +body: """
    > Could you do similar to diagram 2, but instead of an N-FET use a P-FET between the battery and first resistor in the potential divider?\n
    \n
    That’s a great idea! Unfortunately I don’t have a P-FET lying around, so cannot try it right now.\n
    \n
    > Or use a zener/TVS diode instead of second resistor to clamp the voltage instead of dividing (more robust).\n
    \n
    Not sure I understand this point. Which resistor would you replace with a diode?
    """
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}

63

DENIED

edit

App\Entity\EntryComment {#2347
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    +slug: "How-to-improve-my-battery-measurement-circuit"
    +title: "How to improve my battery measurement circuit?"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      I am powering a 5V microcontroller (arduino clone, atmega328p) using a 9V block and a buck converter. Now I want to let the microcontroller occasionally measure the battery voltage, so I can get an idea of how full it is.\n
      \n
      My first idea was to use a simple voltage divider:\n
      \n
      ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/9d173f1d-8412-4129-8ae1-c549a7895107.png)\n
      \n
      I’ve chosen the resistor values so that:\n
      \n
      - the voltage at the measure output is `&lt; 1.1V`, to be able to use the 1.1V internal reference of the atmega’s ADC\n
      - `R1 || R2 &lt; 10kΩ`, since the atmega datasheet says “The ADC is optimized for analog signals with an output impedance of approximately 10 kΩ or less”\n
      \n
      This is great and all, but what bothers me is that this circuit will constantly draw ~100µA from the battery.\n
      \n
      So, my next thought was to add a mosfet to the divider, to switch it on only while measuring:\n
      \n
      ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/450dc371-58d0-4eb0-8f3b-4e76bf676bf4.png)\n
      \n
      This is obviously bad, because now when the mosfet is off, the ADC input sees the whole battery voltage.\n
      \n
      To address that issue, I’ve added a second mosfet into the measure path:\n
      \n
      ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/970e3840-fcbb-46dd-92fb-8903b89149a0.png)\n
      \n
      This works, and it does not draw any current, except while measuring.\n
      \n
      However, it’s quite a few parts. So I’m curious if anyone has an idea how to do this with just a single mosfet. It seems to me like it should be possible, but I haven’t figured out how.\n
      \n
      Oh, and if I’m doing something stupid here, please tell me :)
      """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2083
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        +body: """
          > You could probably increase the 82K and 10K resistors to be much bigger\n
          \n
          That’s what I thought initially, but [this stackoverflow post](https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/250759/how-many-ohm-is-the-adc-port-internal-resistance-of-the-atmega8#250767) dissuaded me. The argument there is that the measurement will be wrong, if the input current is not enough to charge the internal cap within the measurement period. But I’ve done some testing now, and measurements done with 820k and 100k agree well with what my voltmeter measures, so I’ll go with this solution!\n
          \n
          > a fresh alkaline 9V battery is actually 9.6V or more, not 9V.\n
          \n
          Indeed! `9.6V * 10k/92k = 1.04V` is still below 1.1V, so I should be fine in this case :)\n
          \n
          > 9V battery voltages droop noticeably when under load because of their high internal resistance. Make sure to measure under the same conditions.\n
          \n
          This is a good point!\n
          \n
          My firmware will be pretty monotonic though, basically:\n
          \n
          1. wake up\n
          2. measure battery\n
          3. measure some other sensors (the actual task of the device)\n
          4. turn on a transceiver, send all the measurements (including battery voltage)\n
          5. turn off transceiver &amp; go to sleep\n
          \n
          So, the load should be always the same at step (2).
          """
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        +body: """
          Hm, I don’t understand how this is supposed to work - is that a n-channel or p-channel FET?\n
          \n
          When I sketch it using falstad’s circuitjs, it looks like the FET (n-channel) is a little bit on all the time\n
          \n
          ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/dae3ca56-da12-4a48-a023-d3c08c614efb.png)\n
          \n
          and fully on, when a pulse is applied\n
          \n
          ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/e929b967-601c-4796-8b42-1f17de54f037.png)\n
          \n
          Source:\n
          \n
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          """
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        +body: """
          Nice, than you for sharing!\n
          \n
          I won’t be using this for my measurement issue (the other options are much simpler, and i was aiming for less parts, not more), but I’ll do some experiments to familiarize myself with bootstrapping
          """
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    }
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      date: 2023-08-25 09:05:37.0 +02:00
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  +body: """
    > Could you do similar to diagram 2, but instead of an N-FET use a P-FET between the battery and first resistor in the potential divider?\n
    \n
    That’s a great idea! Unfortunately I don’t have a P-FET lying around, so cannot try it right now.\n
    \n
    > Or use a zener/TVS diode instead of second resistor to clamp the voltage instead of dividing (more robust).\n
    \n
    Not sure I understand this point. Which resistor would you replace with a diode?
    """
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}

64

DENIED

moderate

App\Entity\EntryComment {#2347
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    +slug: "How-to-improve-my-battery-measurement-circuit"
    +title: "How to improve my battery measurement circuit?"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      I am powering a 5V microcontroller (arduino clone, atmega328p) using a 9V block and a buck converter. Now I want to let the microcontroller occasionally measure the battery voltage, so I can get an idea of how full it is.\n
      \n
      My first idea was to use a simple voltage divider:\n
      \n
      ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/9d173f1d-8412-4129-8ae1-c549a7895107.png)\n
      \n
      I’ve chosen the resistor values so that:\n
      \n
      - the voltage at the measure output is `&lt; 1.1V`, to be able to use the 1.1V internal reference of the atmega’s ADC\n
      - `R1 || R2 &lt; 10kΩ`, since the atmega datasheet says “The ADC is optimized for analog signals with an output impedance of approximately 10 kΩ or less”\n
      \n
      This is great and all, but what bothers me is that this circuit will constantly draw ~100µA from the battery.\n
      \n
      So, my next thought was to add a mosfet to the divider, to switch it on only while measuring:\n
      \n
      ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/450dc371-58d0-4eb0-8f3b-4e76bf676bf4.png)\n
      \n
      This is obviously bad, because now when the mosfet is off, the ADC input sees the whole battery voltage.\n
      \n
      To address that issue, I’ve added a second mosfet into the measure path:\n
      \n
      ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/970e3840-fcbb-46dd-92fb-8903b89149a0.png)\n
      \n
      This works, and it does not draw any current, except while measuring.\n
      \n
      However, it’s quite a few parts. So I’m curious if anyone has an idea how to do this with just a single mosfet. It seems to me like it should be possible, but I haven’t figured out how.\n
      \n
      Oh, and if I’m doing something stupid here, please tell me :)
      """
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        +body: """
          > You could probably increase the 82K and 10K resistors to be much bigger\n
          \n
          That’s what I thought initially, but [this stackoverflow post](https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/250759/how-many-ohm-is-the-adc-port-internal-resistance-of-the-atmega8#250767) dissuaded me. The argument there is that the measurement will be wrong, if the input current is not enough to charge the internal cap within the measurement period. But I’ve done some testing now, and measurements done with 820k and 100k agree well with what my voltmeter measures, so I’ll go with this solution!\n
          \n
          > a fresh alkaline 9V battery is actually 9.6V or more, not 9V.\n
          \n
          Indeed! `9.6V * 10k/92k = 1.04V` is still below 1.1V, so I should be fine in this case :)\n
          \n
          > 9V battery voltages droop noticeably when under load because of their high internal resistance. Make sure to measure under the same conditions.\n
          \n
          This is a good point!\n
          \n
          My firmware will be pretty monotonic though, basically:\n
          \n
          1. wake up\n
          2. measure battery\n
          3. measure some other sensors (the actual task of the device)\n
          4. turn on a transceiver, send all the measurements (including battery voltage)\n
          5. turn off transceiver &amp; go to sleep\n
          \n
          So, the load should be always the same at step (2).
          """
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        +body: """
          Hm, I don’t understand how this is supposed to work - is that a n-channel or p-channel FET?\n
          \n
          When I sketch it using falstad’s circuitjs, it looks like the FET (n-channel) is a little bit on all the time\n
          \n
          ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/dae3ca56-da12-4a48-a023-d3c08c614efb.png)\n
          \n
          and fully on, when a pulse is applied\n
          \n
          ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/e929b967-601c-4796-8b42-1f17de54f037.png)\n
          \n
          Source:\n
          \n
          spoiler`$ 1 0.000005 10.20027730826997 50 5 43 5e-11 r 144 80 144 176 0 1000 r 0 192 96 192 0 100 t 96 192 144 192 0 1 -8.999999980890745 9.099999980846458e-10 100 default c 144 176 304 176 0 0.000001 -1.7996761414451612e-8 0 f 304 176 384 176 32 2 0.02 d 304 80 304 176 2 default r 384 192 384 272 0 1000 r 384 272 384 352 0 1000 g 384 352 384 384 0 0 g 144 208 144 256 0 0 w 144 80 304 80 0 w 384 160 384 80 0 w 384 80 304 80 0 v 528 256 528 208 0 0 40 9 0 0 0.5 w 528 256 528 352 0 w 528 352 384 352 0 w 528 208 528 80 0 w 528 80 384 80 0 g -48 208 -48 256 0 0 R -48 176 -48 128 0 0 40 5 0 0 0.5 S 0 192 -48 192 0 0 false 0 2 p 384 272 272 272 3 0 0 g 272 272 272 304 0 0`___
          """
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          date: 2023-08-25 13:51:21.0 +02:00
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          date: 2023-08-25 13:50:18.0 +02:00
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        +body: """
          Nice, than you for sharing!\n
          \n
          I won’t be using this for my measurement issue (the other options are much simpler, and i was aiming for less parts, not more), but I’ll do some experiments to familiarize myself with bootstrapping
          """
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  +body: """
    > Could you do similar to diagram 2, but instead of an N-FET use a P-FET between the battery and first resistor in the potential divider?\n
    \n
    That’s a great idea! Unfortunately I don’t have a P-FET lying around, so cannot try it right now.\n
    \n
    > Or use a zener/TVS diode instead of second resistor to clamp the voltage instead of dividing (more robust).\n
    \n
    Not sure I understand this point. Which resistor would you replace with a diode?
    """
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    +slug: "How-to-improve-my-battery-measurement-circuit"
    +title: "How to improve my battery measurement circuit?"
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    +body: """
      I am powering a 5V microcontroller (arduino clone, atmega328p) using a 9V block and a buck converter. Now I want to let the microcontroller occasionally measure the battery voltage, so I can get an idea of how full it is.\n
      \n
      My first idea was to use a simple voltage divider:\n
      \n
      ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/9d173f1d-8412-4129-8ae1-c549a7895107.png)\n
      \n
      I’ve chosen the resistor values so that:\n
      \n
      - the voltage at the measure output is `&lt; 1.1V`, to be able to use the 1.1V internal reference of the atmega’s ADC\n
      - `R1 || R2 &lt; 10kΩ`, since the atmega datasheet says “The ADC is optimized for analog signals with an output impedance of approximately 10 kΩ or less”\n
      \n
      This is great and all, but what bothers me is that this circuit will constantly draw ~100µA from the battery.\n
      \n
      So, my next thought was to add a mosfet to the divider, to switch it on only while measuring:\n
      \n
      ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/450dc371-58d0-4eb0-8f3b-4e76bf676bf4.png)\n
      \n
      This is obviously bad, because now when the mosfet is off, the ADC input sees the whole battery voltage.\n
      \n
      To address that issue, I’ve added a second mosfet into the measure path:\n
      \n
      ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/970e3840-fcbb-46dd-92fb-8903b89149a0.png)\n
      \n
      This works, and it does not draw any current, except while measuring.\n
      \n
      However, it’s quite a few parts. So I’m curious if anyone has an idea how to do this with just a single mosfet. It seems to me like it should be possible, but I haven’t figured out how.\n
      \n
      Oh, and if I’m doing something stupid here, please tell me :)
      """
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        +body: """
          > You could probably increase the 82K and 10K resistors to be much bigger\n
          \n
          That’s what I thought initially, but [this stackoverflow post](https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/250759/how-many-ohm-is-the-adc-port-internal-resistance-of-the-atmega8#250767) dissuaded me. The argument there is that the measurement will be wrong, if the input current is not enough to charge the internal cap within the measurement period. But I’ve done some testing now, and measurements done with 820k and 100k agree well with what my voltmeter measures, so I’ll go with this solution!\n
          \n
          > a fresh alkaline 9V battery is actually 9.6V or more, not 9V.\n
          \n
          Indeed! `9.6V * 10k/92k = 1.04V` is still below 1.1V, so I should be fine in this case :)\n
          \n
          > 9V battery voltages droop noticeably when under load because of their high internal resistance. Make sure to measure under the same conditions.\n
          \n
          This is a good point!\n
          \n
          My firmware will be pretty monotonic though, basically:\n
          \n
          1. wake up\n
          2. measure battery\n
          3. measure some other sensors (the actual task of the device)\n
          4. turn on a transceiver, send all the measurements (including battery voltage)\n
          5. turn off transceiver &amp; go to sleep\n
          \n
          So, the load should be always the same at step (2).
          """
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        +body: """
          > Could you do similar to diagram 2, but instead of an N-FET use a P-FET between the battery and first resistor in the potential divider?\n
          \n
          That’s a great idea! Unfortunately I don’t have a P-FET lying around, so cannot try it right now.\n
          \n
          > Or use a zener/TVS diode instead of second resistor to clamp the voltage instead of dividing (more robust).\n
          \n
          Not sure I understand this point. Which resistor would you replace with a diode?
          """
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          "@Yonrak@feddit.uk"
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        -bodyTs: "'2':7 'around':45 'batteri':22 'cannot':47 'clamp':62 'could':1 'diagram':6 'diod':56,83 'divid':29,67 'fet':14,19,43 'first':24 'great':33 'idea':34 'instead':9,57,65 'lie':44 'n':13 'n-fet':12 'p':18,42 'p-fet':17,41 'point':75 'potenti':28 'replac':80 'resistor':25,60,77 'right':50 'robust':69 'second':59 'similar':4 'sure':71 'tri':48 'understand':73 'unfortun':35 'use':15,53 'voltag':64 'would':78 'zener/tvs':55"
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        +body: """
          Nice, than you for sharing!\n
          \n
          I won’t be using this for my measurement issue (the other options are much simpler, and i was aiming for less parts, not more), but I’ll do some experiments to familiarize myself with bootstrapping
          """
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  +body: """
    Hm, I don’t understand how this is supposed to work - is that a n-channel or p-channel FET?\n
    \n
    When I sketch it using falstad’s circuitjs, it looks like the FET (n-channel) is a little bit on all the time\n
    \n
    ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/dae3ca56-da12-4a48-a023-d3c08c614efb.png)\n
    \n
    and fully on, when a pulse is applied\n
    \n
    ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/e929b967-601c-4796-8b42-1f17de54f037.png)\n
    \n
    Source:\n
    \n
    spoiler`$ 1 0.000005 10.20027730826997 50 5 43 5e-11 r 144 80 144 176 0 1000 r 0 192 96 192 0 100 t 96 192 144 192 0 1 -8.999999980890745 9.099999980846458e-10 100 default c 144 176 304 176 0 0.000001 -1.7996761414451612e-8 0 f 304 176 384 176 32 2 0.02 d 304 80 304 176 2 default r 384 192 384 272 0 1000 r 384 272 384 352 0 1000 g 384 352 384 384 0 0 g 144 208 144 256 0 0 w 144 80 304 80 0 w 384 160 384 80 0 w 384 80 304 80 0 v 528 256 528 208 0 0 40 9 0 0 0.5 w 528 256 528 352 0 w 528 352 384 352 0 w 528 208 528 80 0 w 528 80 384 80 0 g -48 208 -48 256 0 0 R -48 176 -48 128 0 0 40 5 0 0 0.5 S 0 192 -48 192 0 0 false 0 2 p 384 272 272 272 3 0 0 g 272 272 272 304 0 0`___
    """
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67

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    +slug: "How-to-improve-my-battery-measurement-circuit"
    +title: "How to improve my battery measurement circuit?"
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    +body: """
      I am powering a 5V microcontroller (arduino clone, atmega328p) using a 9V block and a buck converter. Now I want to let the microcontroller occasionally measure the battery voltage, so I can get an idea of how full it is.\n
      \n
      My first idea was to use a simple voltage divider:\n
      \n
      ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/9d173f1d-8412-4129-8ae1-c549a7895107.png)\n
      \n
      I’ve chosen the resistor values so that:\n
      \n
      - the voltage at the measure output is `&lt; 1.1V`, to be able to use the 1.1V internal reference of the atmega’s ADC\n
      - `R1 || R2 &lt; 10kΩ`, since the atmega datasheet says “The ADC is optimized for analog signals with an output impedance of approximately 10 kΩ or less”\n
      \n
      This is great and all, but what bothers me is that this circuit will constantly draw ~100µA from the battery.\n
      \n
      So, my next thought was to add a mosfet to the divider, to switch it on only while measuring:\n
      \n
      ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/450dc371-58d0-4eb0-8f3b-4e76bf676bf4.png)\n
      \n
      This is obviously bad, because now when the mosfet is off, the ADC input sees the whole battery voltage.\n
      \n
      To address that issue, I’ve added a second mosfet into the measure path:\n
      \n
      ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/970e3840-fcbb-46dd-92fb-8903b89149a0.png)\n
      \n
      This works, and it does not draw any current, except while measuring.\n
      \n
      However, it’s quite a few parts. So I’m curious if anyone has an idea how to do this with just a single mosfet. It seems to me like it should be possible, but I haven’t figured out how.\n
      \n
      Oh, and if I’m doing something stupid here, please tell me :)
      """
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        +body: """
          > You could probably increase the 82K and 10K resistors to be much bigger\n
          \n
          That’s what I thought initially, but [this stackoverflow post](https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/250759/how-many-ohm-is-the-adc-port-internal-resistance-of-the-atmega8#250767) dissuaded me. The argument there is that the measurement will be wrong, if the input current is not enough to charge the internal cap within the measurement period. But I’ve done some testing now, and measurements done with 820k and 100k agree well with what my voltmeter measures, so I’ll go with this solution!\n
          \n
          > a fresh alkaline 9V battery is actually 9.6V or more, not 9V.\n
          \n
          Indeed! `9.6V * 10k/92k = 1.04V` is still below 1.1V, so I should be fine in this case :)\n
          \n
          > 9V battery voltages droop noticeably when under load because of their high internal resistance. Make sure to measure under the same conditions.\n
          \n
          This is a good point!\n
          \n
          My firmware will be pretty monotonic though, basically:\n
          \n
          1. wake up\n
          2. measure battery\n
          3. measure some other sensors (the actual task of the device)\n
          4. turn on a transceiver, send all the measurements (including battery voltage)\n
          5. turn off transceiver &amp; go to sleep\n
          \n
          So, the load should be always the same at step (2).
          """
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        +body: """
          > Could you do similar to diagram 2, but instead of an N-FET use a P-FET between the battery and first resistor in the potential divider?\n
          \n
          That’s a great idea! Unfortunately I don’t have a P-FET lying around, so cannot try it right now.\n
          \n
          > Or use a zener/TVS diode instead of second resistor to clamp the voltage instead of dividing (more robust).\n
          \n
          Not sure I understand this point. Which resistor would you replace with a diode?
          """
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          "@Yonrak@feddit.uk"
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          date: 2023-08-25 11:05:53.0 +02:00
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        +body: """
          Nice, than you for sharing!\n
          \n
          I won’t be using this for my measurement issue (the other options are much simpler, and i was aiming for less parts, not more), but I’ll do some experiments to familiarize myself with bootstrapping
          """
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  +body: """
    Hm, I don’t understand how this is supposed to work - is that a n-channel or p-channel FET?\n
    \n
    When I sketch it using falstad’s circuitjs, it looks like the FET (n-channel) is a little bit on all the time\n
    \n
    ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/dae3ca56-da12-4a48-a023-d3c08c614efb.png)\n
    \n
    and fully on, when a pulse is applied\n
    \n
    ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/e929b967-601c-4796-8b42-1f17de54f037.png)\n
    \n
    Source:\n
    \n
    spoiler`$ 1 0.000005 10.20027730826997 50 5 43 5e-11 r 144 80 144 176 0 1000 r 0 192 96 192 0 100 t 96 192 144 192 0 1 -8.999999980890745 9.099999980846458e-10 100 default c 144 176 304 176 0 0.000001 -1.7996761414451612e-8 0 f 304 176 384 176 32 2 0.02 d 304 80 304 176 2 default r 384 192 384 272 0 1000 r 384 272 384 352 0 1000 g 384 352 384 384 0 0 g 144 208 144 256 0 0 w 144 80 304 80 0 w 384 160 384 80 0 w 384 80 304 80 0 v 528 256 528 208 0 0 40 9 0 0 0.5 w 528 256 528 352 0 w 528 352 384 352 0 w 528 208 528 80 0 w 528 80 384 80 0 g -48 208 -48 256 0 0 R -48 176 -48 128 0 0 40 5 0 0 0.5 S 0 192 -48 192 0 0 false 0 2 p 384 272 272 272 3 0 0 g 272 272 272 304 0 0`___
    """
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68

DENIED

moderate

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    +slug: "How-to-improve-my-battery-measurement-circuit"
    +title: "How to improve my battery measurement circuit?"
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    +body: """
      I am powering a 5V microcontroller (arduino clone, atmega328p) using a 9V block and a buck converter. Now I want to let the microcontroller occasionally measure the battery voltage, so I can get an idea of how full it is.\n
      \n
      My first idea was to use a simple voltage divider:\n
      \n
      ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/9d173f1d-8412-4129-8ae1-c549a7895107.png)\n
      \n
      I’ve chosen the resistor values so that:\n
      \n
      - the voltage at the measure output is `&lt; 1.1V`, to be able to use the 1.1V internal reference of the atmega’s ADC\n
      - `R1 || R2 &lt; 10kΩ`, since the atmega datasheet says “The ADC is optimized for analog signals with an output impedance of approximately 10 kΩ or less”\n
      \n
      This is great and all, but what bothers me is that this circuit will constantly draw ~100µA from the battery.\n
      \n
      So, my next thought was to add a mosfet to the divider, to switch it on only while measuring:\n
      \n
      ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/450dc371-58d0-4eb0-8f3b-4e76bf676bf4.png)\n
      \n
      This is obviously bad, because now when the mosfet is off, the ADC input sees the whole battery voltage.\n
      \n
      To address that issue, I’ve added a second mosfet into the measure path:\n
      \n
      ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/970e3840-fcbb-46dd-92fb-8903b89149a0.png)\n
      \n
      This works, and it does not draw any current, except while measuring.\n
      \n
      However, it’s quite a few parts. So I’m curious if anyone has an idea how to do this with just a single mosfet. It seems to me like it should be possible, but I haven’t figured out how.\n
      \n
      Oh, and if I’m doing something stupid here, please tell me :)
      """
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        +body: """
          > You could probably increase the 82K and 10K resistors to be much bigger\n
          \n
          That’s what I thought initially, but [this stackoverflow post](https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/250759/how-many-ohm-is-the-adc-port-internal-resistance-of-the-atmega8#250767) dissuaded me. The argument there is that the measurement will be wrong, if the input current is not enough to charge the internal cap within the measurement period. But I’ve done some testing now, and measurements done with 820k and 100k agree well with what my voltmeter measures, so I’ll go with this solution!\n
          \n
          > a fresh alkaline 9V battery is actually 9.6V or more, not 9V.\n
          \n
          Indeed! `9.6V * 10k/92k = 1.04V` is still below 1.1V, so I should be fine in this case :)\n
          \n
          > 9V battery voltages droop noticeably when under load because of their high internal resistance. Make sure to measure under the same conditions.\n
          \n
          This is a good point!\n
          \n
          My firmware will be pretty monotonic though, basically:\n
          \n
          1. wake up\n
          2. measure battery\n
          3. measure some other sensors (the actual task of the device)\n
          4. turn on a transceiver, send all the measurements (including battery voltage)\n
          5. turn off transceiver &amp; go to sleep\n
          \n
          So, the load should be always the same at step (2).
          """
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        +body: """
          > Could you do similar to diagram 2, but instead of an N-FET use a P-FET between the battery and first resistor in the potential divider?\n
          \n
          That’s a great idea! Unfortunately I don’t have a P-FET lying around, so cannot try it right now.\n
          \n
          > Or use a zener/TVS diode instead of second resistor to clamp the voltage instead of dividing (more robust).\n
          \n
          Not sure I understand this point. Which resistor would you replace with a diode?
          """
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        +body: """
          Nice, than you for sharing!\n
          \n
          I won’t be using this for my measurement issue (the other options are much simpler, and i was aiming for less parts, not more), but I’ll do some experiments to familiarize myself with bootstrapping
          """
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  +body: """
    Hm, I don’t understand how this is supposed to work - is that a n-channel or p-channel FET?\n
    \n
    When I sketch it using falstad’s circuitjs, it looks like the FET (n-channel) is a little bit on all the time\n
    \n
    ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/dae3ca56-da12-4a48-a023-d3c08c614efb.png)\n
    \n
    and fully on, when a pulse is applied\n
    \n
    ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/e929b967-601c-4796-8b42-1f17de54f037.png)\n
    \n
    Source:\n
    \n
    spoiler`$ 1 0.000005 10.20027730826997 50 5 43 5e-11 r 144 80 144 176 0 1000 r 0 192 96 192 0 100 t 96 192 144 192 0 1 -8.999999980890745 9.099999980846458e-10 100 default c 144 176 304 176 0 0.000001 -1.7996761414451612e-8 0 f 304 176 384 176 32 2 0.02 d 304 80 304 176 2 default r 384 192 384 272 0 1000 r 384 272 384 352 0 1000 g 384 352 384 384 0 0 g 144 208 144 256 0 0 w 144 80 304 80 0 w 384 160 384 80 0 w 384 80 304 80 0 v 528 256 528 208 0 0 40 9 0 0 0.5 w 528 256 528 352 0 w 528 352 384 352 0 w 528 208 528 80 0 w 528 80 384 80 0 g -48 208 -48 256 0 0 R -48 176 -48 128 0 0 40 5 0 0 0.5 S 0 192 -48 192 0 0 false 0 2 p 384 272 272 272 3 0 0 g 272 272 272 304 0 0`___
    """
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    +slug: "How-to-improve-my-battery-measurement-circuit"
    +title: "How to improve my battery measurement circuit?"
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    +body: """
      I am powering a 5V microcontroller (arduino clone, atmega328p) using a 9V block and a buck converter. Now I want to let the microcontroller occasionally measure the battery voltage, so I can get an idea of how full it is.\n
      \n
      My first idea was to use a simple voltage divider:\n
      \n
      ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/9d173f1d-8412-4129-8ae1-c549a7895107.png)\n
      \n
      I’ve chosen the resistor values so that:\n
      \n
      - the voltage at the measure output is `&lt; 1.1V`, to be able to use the 1.1V internal reference of the atmega’s ADC\n
      - `R1 || R2 &lt; 10kΩ`, since the atmega datasheet says “The ADC is optimized for analog signals with an output impedance of approximately 10 kΩ or less”\n
      \n
      This is great and all, but what bothers me is that this circuit will constantly draw ~100µA from the battery.\n
      \n
      So, my next thought was to add a mosfet to the divider, to switch it on only while measuring:\n
      \n
      ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/450dc371-58d0-4eb0-8f3b-4e76bf676bf4.png)\n
      \n
      This is obviously bad, because now when the mosfet is off, the ADC input sees the whole battery voltage.\n
      \n
      To address that issue, I’ve added a second mosfet into the measure path:\n
      \n
      ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/970e3840-fcbb-46dd-92fb-8903b89149a0.png)\n
      \n
      This works, and it does not draw any current, except while measuring.\n
      \n
      However, it’s quite a few parts. So I’m curious if anyone has an idea how to do this with just a single mosfet. It seems to me like it should be possible, but I haven’t figured out how.\n
      \n
      Oh, and if I’m doing something stupid here, please tell me :)
      """
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        +body: """
          > You could probably increase the 82K and 10K resistors to be much bigger\n
          \n
          That’s what I thought initially, but [this stackoverflow post](https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/250759/how-many-ohm-is-the-adc-port-internal-resistance-of-the-atmega8#250767) dissuaded me. The argument there is that the measurement will be wrong, if the input current is not enough to charge the internal cap within the measurement period. But I’ve done some testing now, and measurements done with 820k and 100k agree well with what my voltmeter measures, so I’ll go with this solution!\n
          \n
          > a fresh alkaline 9V battery is actually 9.6V or more, not 9V.\n
          \n
          Indeed! `9.6V * 10k/92k = 1.04V` is still below 1.1V, so I should be fine in this case :)\n
          \n
          > 9V battery voltages droop noticeably when under load because of their high internal resistance. Make sure to measure under the same conditions.\n
          \n
          This is a good point!\n
          \n
          My firmware will be pretty monotonic though, basically:\n
          \n
          1. wake up\n
          2. measure battery\n
          3. measure some other sensors (the actual task of the device)\n
          4. turn on a transceiver, send all the measurements (including battery voltage)\n
          5. turn off transceiver &amp; go to sleep\n
          \n
          So, the load should be always the same at step (2).
          """
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          date: 2023-08-25 11:03:17.0 +02:00
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2347
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        +body: """
          > Could you do similar to diagram 2, but instead of an N-FET use a P-FET between the battery and first resistor in the potential divider?\n
          \n
          That’s a great idea! Unfortunately I don’t have a P-FET lying around, so cannot try it right now.\n
          \n
          > Or use a zener/TVS diode instead of second resistor to clamp the voltage instead of dividing (more robust).\n
          \n
          Not sure I understand this point. Which resistor would you replace with a diode?
          """
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        +body: """
          Hm, I don’t understand how this is supposed to work - is that a n-channel or p-channel FET?\n
          \n
          When I sketch it using falstad’s circuitjs, it looks like the FET (n-channel) is a little bit on all the time\n
          \n
          ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/dae3ca56-da12-4a48-a023-d3c08c614efb.png)\n
          \n
          and fully on, when a pulse is applied\n
          \n
          ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/e929b967-601c-4796-8b42-1f17de54f037.png)\n
          \n
          Source:\n
          \n
          spoiler`$ 1 0.000005 10.20027730826997 50 5 43 5e-11 r 144 80 144 176 0 1000 r 0 192 96 192 0 100 t 96 192 144 192 0 1 -8.999999980890745 9.099999980846458e-10 100 default c 144 176 304 176 0 0.000001 -1.7996761414451612e-8 0 f 304 176 384 176 32 2 0.02 d 304 80 304 176 2 default r 384 192 384 272 0 1000 r 384 272 384 352 0 1000 g 384 352 384 384 0 0 g 144 208 144 256 0 0 w 144 80 304 80 0 w 384 160 384 80 0 w 384 80 304 80 0 v 528 256 528 208 0 0 40 9 0 0 0.5 w 528 256 528 352 0 w 528 352 384 352 0 w 528 208 528 80 0 w 528 80 384 80 0 g -48 208 -48 256 0 0 R -48 176 -48 128 0 0 40 5 0 0 0.5 S 0 192 -48 192 0 0 false 0 2 p 384 272 272 272 3 0 0 g 272 272 272 304 0 0`___
          """
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      date: 2023-08-25 09:07:12.0 +02:00
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  +body: """
    Nice, than you for sharing!\n
    \n
    I won’t be using this for my measurement issue (the other options are much simpler, and i was aiming for less parts, not more), but I’ll do some experiments to familiarize myself with bootstrapping
    """
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}

71

DENIED

edit

App\Entity\EntryComment {#2135
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    +slug: "How-to-improve-my-battery-measurement-circuit"
    +title: "How to improve my battery measurement circuit?"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      I am powering a 5V microcontroller (arduino clone, atmega328p) using a 9V block and a buck converter. Now I want to let the microcontroller occasionally measure the battery voltage, so I can get an idea of how full it is.\n
      \n
      My first idea was to use a simple voltage divider:\n
      \n
      ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/9d173f1d-8412-4129-8ae1-c549a7895107.png)\n
      \n
      I’ve chosen the resistor values so that:\n
      \n
      - the voltage at the measure output is `&lt; 1.1V`, to be able to use the 1.1V internal reference of the atmega’s ADC\n
      - `R1 || R2 &lt; 10kΩ`, since the atmega datasheet says “The ADC is optimized for analog signals with an output impedance of approximately 10 kΩ or less”\n
      \n
      This is great and all, but what bothers me is that this circuit will constantly draw ~100µA from the battery.\n
      \n
      So, my next thought was to add a mosfet to the divider, to switch it on only while measuring:\n
      \n
      ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/450dc371-58d0-4eb0-8f3b-4e76bf676bf4.png)\n
      \n
      This is obviously bad, because now when the mosfet is off, the ADC input sees the whole battery voltage.\n
      \n
      To address that issue, I’ve added a second mosfet into the measure path:\n
      \n
      ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/970e3840-fcbb-46dd-92fb-8903b89149a0.png)\n
      \n
      This works, and it does not draw any current, except while measuring.\n
      \n
      However, it’s quite a few parts. So I’m curious if anyone has an idea how to do this with just a single mosfet. It seems to me like it should be possible, but I haven’t figured out how.\n
      \n
      Oh, and if I’m doing something stupid here, please tell me :)
      """
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      date: 2023-09-15 14:30:42.0 +02:00
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2083
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        +body: """
          > You could probably increase the 82K and 10K resistors to be much bigger\n
          \n
          That’s what I thought initially, but [this stackoverflow post](https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/250759/how-many-ohm-is-the-adc-port-internal-resistance-of-the-atmega8#250767) dissuaded me. The argument there is that the measurement will be wrong, if the input current is not enough to charge the internal cap within the measurement period. But I’ve done some testing now, and measurements done with 820k and 100k agree well with what my voltmeter measures, so I’ll go with this solution!\n
          \n
          > a fresh alkaline 9V battery is actually 9.6V or more, not 9V.\n
          \n
          Indeed! `9.6V * 10k/92k = 1.04V` is still below 1.1V, so I should be fine in this case :)\n
          \n
          > 9V battery voltages droop noticeably when under load because of their high internal resistance. Make sure to measure under the same conditions.\n
          \n
          This is a good point!\n
          \n
          My firmware will be pretty monotonic though, basically:\n
          \n
          1. wake up\n
          2. measure battery\n
          3. measure some other sensors (the actual task of the device)\n
          4. turn on a transceiver, send all the measurements (including battery voltage)\n
          5. turn off transceiver &amp; go to sleep\n
          \n
          So, the load should be always the same at step (2).
          """
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        +body: """
          > Could you do similar to diagram 2, but instead of an N-FET use a P-FET between the battery and first resistor in the potential divider?\n
          \n
          That’s a great idea! Unfortunately I don’t have a P-FET lying around, so cannot try it right now.\n
          \n
          > Or use a zener/TVS diode instead of second resistor to clamp the voltage instead of dividing (more robust).\n
          \n
          Not sure I understand this point. Which resistor would you replace with a diode?
          """
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          "@Yonrak@feddit.uk"
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        -bodyTs: "'2':7 'around':45 'batteri':22 'cannot':47 'clamp':62 'could':1 'diagram':6 'diod':56,83 'divid':29,67 'fet':14,19,43 'first':24 'great':33 'idea':34 'instead':9,57,65 'lie':44 'n':13 'n-fet':12 'p':18,42 'p-fet':17,41 'point':75 'potenti':28 'replac':80 'resistor':25,60,77 'right':50 'robust':69 'second':59 'similar':4 'sure':71 'tri':48 'understand':73 'unfortun':35 'use':15,53 'voltag':64 'would':78 'zener/tvs':55"
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          date: 2023-08-25 11:05:53.0 +02:00
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        +body: """
          Hm, I don’t understand how this is supposed to work - is that a n-channel or p-channel FET?\n
          \n
          When I sketch it using falstad’s circuitjs, it looks like the FET (n-channel) is a little bit on all the time\n
          \n
          ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/dae3ca56-da12-4a48-a023-d3c08c614efb.png)\n
          \n
          and fully on, when a pulse is applied\n
          \n
          ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/e929b967-601c-4796-8b42-1f17de54f037.png)\n
          \n
          Source:\n
          \n
          spoiler`$ 1 0.000005 10.20027730826997 50 5 43 5e-11 r 144 80 144 176 0 1000 r 0 192 96 192 0 100 t 96 192 144 192 0 1 -8.999999980890745 9.099999980846458e-10 100 default c 144 176 304 176 0 0.000001 -1.7996761414451612e-8 0 f 304 176 384 176 32 2 0.02 d 304 80 304 176 2 default r 384 192 384 272 0 1000 r 384 272 384 352 0 1000 g 384 352 384 384 0 0 g 144 208 144 256 0 0 w 144 80 304 80 0 w 384 160 384 80 0 w 384 80 304 80 0 v 528 256 528 208 0 0 40 9 0 0 0.5 w 528 256 528 352 0 w 528 352 384 352 0 w 528 208 528 80 0 w 528 80 384 80 0 g -48 208 -48 256 0 0 R -48 176 -48 128 0 0 40 5 0 0 0.5 S 0 192 -48 192 0 0 false 0 2 p 384 272 272 272 3 0 0 g 272 272 272 304 0 0`___
          """
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      date: 2023-08-25 09:07:12.0 +02:00
    }
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      date: 2023-08-25 09:05:37.0 +02:00
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  }
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  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2323 …}
  +body: """
    Nice, than you for sharing!\n
    \n
    I won’t be using this for my measurement issue (the other options are much simpler, and i was aiming for less parts, not more), but I’ll do some experiments to familiarize myself with bootstrapping
    """
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    "@jjagaimo@lemmy.ca"
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}

72

DENIED

moderate

App\Entity\EntryComment {#2135
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    +slug: "How-to-improve-my-battery-measurement-circuit"
    +title: "How to improve my battery measurement circuit?"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      I am powering a 5V microcontroller (arduino clone, atmega328p) using a 9V block and a buck converter. Now I want to let the microcontroller occasionally measure the battery voltage, so I can get an idea of how full it is.\n
      \n
      My first idea was to use a simple voltage divider:\n
      \n
      ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/9d173f1d-8412-4129-8ae1-c549a7895107.png)\n
      \n
      I’ve chosen the resistor values so that:\n
      \n
      - the voltage at the measure output is `&lt; 1.1V`, to be able to use the 1.1V internal reference of the atmega’s ADC\n
      - `R1 || R2 &lt; 10kΩ`, since the atmega datasheet says “The ADC is optimized for analog signals with an output impedance of approximately 10 kΩ or less”\n
      \n
      This is great and all, but what bothers me is that this circuit will constantly draw ~100µA from the battery.\n
      \n
      So, my next thought was to add a mosfet to the divider, to switch it on only while measuring:\n
      \n
      ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/450dc371-58d0-4eb0-8f3b-4e76bf676bf4.png)\n
      \n
      This is obviously bad, because now when the mosfet is off, the ADC input sees the whole battery voltage.\n
      \n
      To address that issue, I’ve added a second mosfet into the measure path:\n
      \n
      ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/970e3840-fcbb-46dd-92fb-8903b89149a0.png)\n
      \n
      This works, and it does not draw any current, except while measuring.\n
      \n
      However, it’s quite a few parts. So I’m curious if anyone has an idea how to do this with just a single mosfet. It seems to me like it should be possible, but I haven’t figured out how.\n
      \n
      Oh, and if I’m doing something stupid here, please tell me :)
      """
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2083
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        +body: """
          > You could probably increase the 82K and 10K resistors to be much bigger\n
          \n
          That’s what I thought initially, but [this stackoverflow post](https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/250759/how-many-ohm-is-the-adc-port-internal-resistance-of-the-atmega8#250767) dissuaded me. The argument there is that the measurement will be wrong, if the input current is not enough to charge the internal cap within the measurement period. But I’ve done some testing now, and measurements done with 820k and 100k agree well with what my voltmeter measures, so I’ll go with this solution!\n
          \n
          > a fresh alkaline 9V battery is actually 9.6V or more, not 9V.\n
          \n
          Indeed! `9.6V * 10k/92k = 1.04V` is still below 1.1V, so I should be fine in this case :)\n
          \n
          > 9V battery voltages droop noticeably when under load because of their high internal resistance. Make sure to measure under the same conditions.\n
          \n
          This is a good point!\n
          \n
          My firmware will be pretty monotonic though, basically:\n
          \n
          1. wake up\n
          2. measure battery\n
          3. measure some other sensors (the actual task of the device)\n
          4. turn on a transceiver, send all the measurements (including battery voltage)\n
          5. turn off transceiver &amp; go to sleep\n
          \n
          So, the load should be always the same at step (2).
          """
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2347
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        +body: """
          > Could you do similar to diagram 2, but instead of an N-FET use a P-FET between the battery and first resistor in the potential divider?\n
          \n
          That’s a great idea! Unfortunately I don’t have a P-FET lying around, so cannot try it right now.\n
          \n
          > Or use a zener/TVS diode instead of second resistor to clamp the voltage instead of dividing (more robust).\n
          \n
          Not sure I understand this point. Which resistor would you replace with a diode?
          """
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          "@nilclass@discuss.tchncs.de"
          "@Yonrak@feddit.uk"
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        -id: 26781
        -bodyTs: "'2':7 'around':45 'batteri':22 'cannot':47 'clamp':62 'could':1 'diagram':6 'diod':56,83 'divid':29,67 'fet':14,19,43 'first':24 'great':33 'idea':34 'instead':9,57,65 'lie':44 'n':13 'n-fet':12 'p':18,42 'p-fet':17,41 'point':75 'potenti':28 'replac':80 'resistor':25,60,77 'right':50 'robust':69 'second':59 'similar':4 'sure':71 'tri':48 'understand':73 'unfortun':35 'use':15,53 'voltag':64 'would':78 'zener/tvs':55"
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          date: 2023-08-25 11:05:53.0 +02:00
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333
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        +body: """
          Hm, I don’t understand how this is supposed to work - is that a n-channel or p-channel FET?\n
          \n
          When I sketch it using falstad’s circuitjs, it looks like the FET (n-channel) is a little bit on all the time\n
          \n
          ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/dae3ca56-da12-4a48-a023-d3c08c614efb.png)\n
          \n
          and fully on, when a pulse is applied\n
          \n
          ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/e929b967-601c-4796-8b42-1f17de54f037.png)\n
          \n
          Source:\n
          \n
          spoiler`$ 1 0.000005 10.20027730826997 50 5 43 5e-11 r 144 80 144 176 0 1000 r 0 192 96 192 0 100 t 96 192 144 192 0 1 -8.999999980890745 9.099999980846458e-10 100 default c 144 176 304 176 0 0.000001 -1.7996761414451612e-8 0 f 304 176 384 176 32 2 0.02 d 304 80 304 176 2 default r 384 192 384 272 0 1000 r 384 272 384 352 0 1000 g 384 352 384 384 0 0 g 144 208 144 256 0 0 w 144 80 304 80 0 w 384 160 384 80 0 w 384 80 304 80 0 v 528 256 528 208 0 0 40 9 0 0 0.5 w 528 256 528 352 0 w 528 352 384 352 0 w 528 208 528 80 0 w 528 80 384 80 0 g -48 208 -48 256 0 0 R -48 176 -48 128 0 0 40 5 0 0 0.5 S 0 192 -48 192 0 0 false 0 2 p 384 272 272 272 3 0 0 g 272 272 272 304 0 0`___
          """
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    Nice, than you for sharing!\n
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    I won’t be using this for my measurement issue (the other options are much simpler, and i was aiming for less parts, not more), but I’ll do some experiments to familiarize myself with bootstrapping
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80

DENIED

moderate

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81

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ROLE_USER

null

82

DENIED

moderate

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    Hi everyone! Recently I have gotten interested in communication protocols and have been looking for one (with little success, hence my question) which would satisfy the following requirements (in prioritized order):\n
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    I have looked at I2C, which for the most part would be fine, but as far as I understand it was not meant to be sent through a wire and it would be quite vulnerable to interference. (It also is by default a master-slave protocol, but it also has a multi-master mode, so maybe making every device a slave and a multi-master master at the same time could work?)\n
    \n
    The rest of the protocols I looked at were all master-slave, which, for my purpose, is unacceptable.\n
    \n
    That being said, I would be grateful if you could give me some pointers as to what protocol may satisfy these requirements and perhaps even on what sort of wires and signals it would require (twisted pairs? Differential signal? Shielded twisted pairs? Could plain simple wire suffice? etc.)
    """
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83

DENIED

edit

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    Hi everyone! Recently I have gotten interested in communication protocols and have been looking for one (with little success, hence my question) which would satisfy the following requirements (in prioritized order):\n
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    I have looked at I2C, which for the most part would be fine, but as far as I understand it was not meant to be sent through a wire and it would be quite vulnerable to interference. (It also is by default a master-slave protocol, but it also has a multi-master mode, so maybe making every device a slave and a multi-master master at the same time could work?)\n
    \n
    The rest of the protocols I looked at were all master-slave, which, for my purpose, is unacceptable.\n
    \n
    That being said, I would be grateful if you could give me some pointers as to what protocol may satisfy these requirements and perhaps even on what sort of wires and signals it would require (twisted pairs? Differential signal? Shielded twisted pairs? Could plain simple wire suffice? etc.)
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84

DENIED

moderate

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    Hi everyone! Recently I have gotten interested in communication protocols and have been looking for one (with little success, hence my question) which would satisfy the following requirements (in prioritized order):\n
    \n
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    • Devices should be able to address messages directly to one another without a single one permanently taking on some host/master/relay role\n
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    \n
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    \n
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    The rest of the protocols I looked at were all master-slave, which, for my purpose, is unacceptable.\n
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    That being said, I would be grateful if you could give me some pointers as to what protocol may satisfy these requirements and perhaps even on what sort of wires and signals it would require (twisted pairs? Differential signal? Shielded twisted pairs? Could plain simple wire suffice? etc.)
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      I have looked at I2C, which for the most part would be fine, but as far as I understand it was not meant to be sent through a wire and it would be quite vulnerable to interference. (It also is by default a master-slave protocol, but it also has a multi-master mode, so maybe making every device a slave and a multi-master master at the same time could work?)\n
      \n
      The rest of the protocols I looked at were all master-slave, which, for my purpose, is unacceptable.\n
      \n
      That being said, I would be grateful if you could give me some pointers as to what protocol may satisfy these requirements and perhaps even on what sort of wires and signals it would require (twisted pairs? Differential signal? Shielded twisted pairs? Could plain simple wire suffice? etc.)
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      \n
      The rest of the protocols I looked at were all master-slave, which, for my purpose, is unacceptable.\n
      \n
      That being said, I would be grateful if you could give me some pointers as to what protocol may satisfy these requirements and perhaps even on what sort of wires and signals it would require (twisted pairs? Differential signal? Shielded twisted pairs? Could plain simple wire suffice? etc.)
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  +body: "You could give PJON a try [github.com/gioblu/PJON](https://github.com/gioblu/PJON)"
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  +"title": 25986
}

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App\Entity\Entry {#1687
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  +image: null
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1554 …}
  +slug: "Radial-resistors-has-anybody-seen-these-before"
  +title: "Radial resistors... has anybody seen these before?"
  +url: "https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/74d11e2c-af09-47a2-88d6-10c4c5659843.jpeg"
  +body: """
    I have a whole bunch of them. They are possibly a bit older (70s, 80s) judging by other contents of the junk box they are from.\n
    \n
    There are no labels of any kind, but on the top they have stripes that look hand painted.\n
    \n
    ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/2caf47a8-5ee7-4b94-957e-19c9a5cfbc19.jpeg)\n
    \n
    For at least some of them the resistance roughly corresponds to the color code.\n
    \n
    So, I’m just curious why I can’t find anything about these on the internet.
    """
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App\Entity\Entry {#1687
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  +slug: "Radial-resistors-has-anybody-seen-these-before"
  +title: "Radial resistors... has anybody seen these before?"
  +url: "https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/74d11e2c-af09-47a2-88d6-10c4c5659843.jpeg"
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    I have a whole bunch of them. They are possibly a bit older (70s, 80s) judging by other contents of the junk box they are from.\n
    \n
    There are no labels of any kind, but on the top they have stripes that look hand painted.\n
    \n
    ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/2caf47a8-5ee7-4b94-957e-19c9a5cfbc19.jpeg)\n
    \n
    For at least some of them the resistance roughly corresponds to the color code.\n
    \n
    So, I’m just curious why I can’t find anything about these on the internet.
    """
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App\Entity\Entry {#1687
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  +slug: "Radial-resistors-has-anybody-seen-these-before"
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    I have a whole bunch of them. They are possibly a bit older (70s, 80s) judging by other contents of the junk box they are from.\n
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    There are no labels of any kind, but on the top they have stripes that look hand painted.\n
    \n
    ![](https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/2caf47a8-5ee7-4b94-957e-19c9a5cfbc19.jpeg)\n
    \n
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    So, I’m just curious why I can’t find anything about these on the internet.
    """
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App\Entity\Entry {#1551
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  +slug: "This-variable-cap-sending-a-clear-message-to-anyone-looking"
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App\Entity\Entry {#1551
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App\Entity\Entry {#1551
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App\Entity\Entry {#1433
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  +slug: "Safety-tips-when-disassembling-old-electronics"
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    I'm taking apart a broken tape recorder produced in the 70s (a Tesla B57, made in Czechoslovakia), to harvest some parts (inductors, switches, ...) and maybe reuse the case for some project.\n
    \n
    Which made me wonder: are there any dangers to protect myself against? I know about lead, so I'll take precautions when desoldering things. Is there anything else to be aware of? Some fumes, other toxic materials, ...?\n
    \n
    I'm not planning to connect the device to power in any way, so from an electrical perspective there should be nothing to worry about (except for caps maybe). Am I wrong?
    """
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        > Best not to eat it.\n
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        dang... what else to do with the leftovers then?
        """
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      +body: "good to know for the future!"
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    date: 2023-06-20 22:00:39.0 +02:00
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}

99

DENIED

edit

App\Entity\Entry {#1433
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  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1654 …}
  +image: null
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1752 …}
  +slug: "Safety-tips-when-disassembling-old-electronics"
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  +url: null
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    I'm taking apart a broken tape recorder produced in the 70s (a Tesla B57, made in Czechoslovakia), to harvest some parts (inductors, switches, ...) and maybe reuse the case for some project.\n
    \n
    Which made me wonder: are there any dangers to protect myself against? I know about lead, so I'll take precautions when desoldering things. Is there anything else to be aware of? Some fumes, other toxic materials, ...?\n
    \n
    I'm not planning to connect the device to power in any way, so from an electrical perspective there should be nothing to worry about (except for caps maybe). Am I wrong?
    """
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        > Best not to eat it.\n
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        dang... what else to do with the leftovers then?
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  }
}

100

DENIED

moderate

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    I'm taking apart a broken tape recorder produced in the 70s (a Tesla B57, made in Czechoslovakia), to harvest some parts (inductors, switches, ...) and maybe reuse the case for some project.\n
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    \n
    I'm not planning to connect the device to power in any way, so from an electrical perspective there should be nothing to worry about (except for caps maybe). Am I wrong?
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        > Best not to eat it.\n
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        dang... what else to do with the leftovers then?
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}

101

DENIED

ROLE_USER

null

102

DENIED

moderate

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103

DENIED

edit

App\Entity\EntryComment {#2454
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    dang... what else to do with the leftovers then?
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104

DENIED

moderate

App\Entity\EntryComment {#2454
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      I'm not planning to connect the device to power in any way, so from an electrical perspective there should be nothing to worry about (except for caps maybe). Am I wrong?
      """
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}

105

DENIED

ROLE_USER

null

106

DENIED

moderate

App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030
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107

DENIED

edit

App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030
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      I'm not planning to connect the device to power in any way, so from an electrical perspective there should be nothing to worry about (except for caps maybe). Am I wrong?
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          > Best not to eat it.\n
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108

DENIED

moderate

App\Entity\EntryComment {#2030
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