Symfony Profiler

Security

Token

There is no security token.

Firewall

main Name

Security enabled

Stateless

Configuration

Key	Value
provider	security.user.provider.concrete.app_user_provider
context	main
entry_point	App\Security\KbinAuthenticator
user_checker	App\Security\UserChecker
access_denied_handler	(none)
access_denied_url	(none)
authenticators	[`"two_factor" "remember_me" "App\Security\KbinAuthenticator" "App\Security\FacebookAuthenticator" "App\Security\GoogleAuthenticator" "App\Security\GithubAuthenticator" "App\Security\KeycloakAuthenticator"`]

Listeners

Listener	Duration	Response
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ChannelListener {#723`-map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …} -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …} -httpPort: 80 -httpsPort: 443`}	0.00 ms	(none)
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ContextListener {#706-tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\TokenStorage {#1017 …} -sessionKey: "_security_main" -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …} -userProviders: Symfony\Component\DependencyInjection\Argument\RewindableGenerator {#705 …} -dispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …} -registered: false -trustResolver: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authentication\AuthenticationTrustResolver {#780 …} -sessionTrackerEnabler: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage::enableUsageTracking(): void {#703 …}}	0.95 ms	(none)
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AuthenticatorManagerListener {#584`-authenticatorManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Authentication\AuthenticatorManager {#595 …}`}	0.00 ms	(none)
Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Http\Firewall\TwoFactorAccessListener {#582`-twoFactorFirewallConfig: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\TwoFactor\TwoFactorFirewallConfig {#842 …} -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …} -twoFactorAccessDecider: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\TwoFactorAccessDecider {#581 …}`}	0.04 ms	(none)
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AccessListener {#579`-tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …} -accessDecisionManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\TraceableAccessDecisionManager {#937 …} -map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …}`}	0.00 ms	(none)
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\LogoutListener {#786`-tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …} -options: [ "csrf_parameter" => "_csrf_token" "csrf_token_id" => "logout" "logout_path" => "app_logout" ] -httpUtils: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\HttpUtils {#841 …} -csrfTokenManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Csrf\CsrfTokenManager {#1015 …} -eventDispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …}`}	0.00 ms	(none)

Authenticators

No authenticators have been recorded. Check previous profiles on your authentication endpoint.

Access Decision

affirmative Strategy


"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\AuthenticatedVoter"
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\ExpressionVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"

#	Voter class
1	"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\AuthenticatedVoter"
2	"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
3	"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
4	"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\ExpressionVoter"
5	"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
6	"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
7	"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
8	"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
9	"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
10	"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
11	"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
12	"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
13	"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
14	"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"

Access decision log


null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\Entry {#2419
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1970 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
    +name: "selfhosted@lemmy.world"
    +title: "selfhosted"
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      A place to share alternatives to popular online services that can be self-hosted without giving up privacy or locking you into a service you don’t control.\n
      \n
      Rules:\n
      \n
      - Be civil: we’re here to support and learn from one another. Insults won’t be tolerated. Flame wars are frowned upon.\n
      - No spam posting.\n
      - Don’t duplicate the full text of your blog or github here. Just post the link for folks to click.\n
      - Submission headline should match the article title (don’t cherry-pick information from the title to fit your agenda).\n
      - No trolling.\n
      \n
      Resources:\n
      \n
      - [awesome-selfhosted software](https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted)\n
      - [awesome-sysadmin](https://github.com/awesome-foss/awesome-sysadmin) resources\n
      - [Self-Hosted Podcast from Jupiter Broadcasting](https://selfhosted.show)\n
      \n
      &gt; Any issues on the community? Report it using the report flag.\n
      \n
      &gt; Questions? DM the mods!
      """
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  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#1943 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1912 …}
  +slug: "Creating-the-XMPP-Network-Graph"
  +title: "Creating the XMPP Network Graph"
  +url: "https://discourse.igniterealtime.org/t/creating-the-xmpp-network-graph/93521"
  +body: """
    Sorry if this isn’t the right venue for that, I thought it’d be in the tone of “self-hosting” and “federation” :)\n
    \n
    tl;dr: some XMPP servers started to deploy a mod to report back about how they federate with the rest of the network, and now there is a pretty graph to show for it at [xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html](https://xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html)
    """
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  +hasEmbed: false
  +commentCount: 7
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  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1706129600 {#1793
    date: 2024-01-24 21:53:20.0 +01:00
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\Entry {#2419
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1970 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
    +name: "selfhosted@lemmy.world"
    +title: "selfhosted"
    +description: """
      A place to share alternatives to popular online services that can be self-hosted without giving up privacy or locking you into a service you don’t control.\n
      \n
      Rules:\n
      \n
      - Be civil: we’re here to support and learn from one another. Insults won’t be tolerated. Flame wars are frowned upon.\n
      - No spam posting.\n
      - Don’t duplicate the full text of your blog or github here. Just post the link for folks to click.\n
      - Submission headline should match the article title (don’t cherry-pick information from the title to fit your agenda).\n
      - No trolling.\n
      \n
      Resources:\n
      \n
      - [awesome-selfhosted software](https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted)\n
      - [awesome-sysadmin](https://github.com/awesome-foss/awesome-sysadmin) resources\n
      - [Self-Hosted Podcast from Jupiter Broadcasting](https://selfhosted.show)\n
      \n
      &gt; Any issues on the community? Report it using the report flag.\n
      \n
      &gt; Questions? DM the mods!
      """
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      date: 2024-10-22 09:38:55.0 +02:00
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    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#237 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#222 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#180 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#138 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#200 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#117 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#103 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#81 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#71 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1346 …}
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    +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted/followers"
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    +apPreferredUsername: "selfhosted"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
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      date: 2023-12-25 04:10:26.0 +01:00
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703473826 {#271
      date: 2023-12-25 04:10:26.0 +01:00
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  }
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#1943 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1912 …}
  +slug: "Creating-the-XMPP-Network-Graph"
  +title: "Creating the XMPP Network Graph"
  +url: "https://discourse.igniterealtime.org/t/creating-the-xmpp-network-graph/93521"
  +body: """
    Sorry if this isn’t the right venue for that, I thought it’d be in the tone of “self-hosting” and “federation” :)\n
    \n
    tl;dr: some XMPP servers started to deploy a mod to report back about how they federate with the rest of the network, and now there is a pretty graph to show for it at [xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html](https://xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html)
    """
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  +commentCount: 7
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    date: 2024-10-11 02:44:08.0 +02:00
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  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1866 …}
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  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1706216000
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://programming.dev/post/9063516"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1706129600 {#1793
    date: 2024-01-24 21:53:20.0 +01:00
  }
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\Entry {#2419
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1970 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
    +name: "selfhosted@lemmy.world"
    +title: "selfhosted"
    +description: """
      A place to share alternatives to popular online services that can be self-hosted without giving up privacy or locking you into a service you don’t control.\n
      \n
      Rules:\n
      \n
      - Be civil: we’re here to support and learn from one another. Insults won’t be tolerated. Flame wars are frowned upon.\n
      - No spam posting.\n
      - Don’t duplicate the full text of your blog or github here. Just post the link for folks to click.\n
      - Submission headline should match the article title (don’t cherry-pick information from the title to fit your agenda).\n
      - No trolling.\n
      \n
      Resources:\n
      \n
      - [awesome-selfhosted software](https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted)\n
      - [awesome-sysadmin](https://github.com/awesome-foss/awesome-sysadmin) resources\n
      - [Self-Hosted Podcast from Jupiter Broadcasting](https://selfhosted.show)\n
      \n
      &gt; Any issues on the community? Report it using the report flag.\n
      \n
      &gt; Questions? DM the mods!
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 1
    +entryCount: 222
    +entryCommentCount: 3916
    +postCount: 0
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      date: 2024-10-22 09:38:55.0 +02:00
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    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#237 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
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      date: 2023-12-25 04:10:26.0 +01:00
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  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#1943 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1912 …}
  +slug: "Creating-the-XMPP-Network-Graph"
  +title: "Creating the XMPP Network Graph"
  +url: "https://discourse.igniterealtime.org/t/creating-the-xmpp-network-graph/93521"
  +body: """
    Sorry if this isn’t the right venue for that, I thought it’d be in the tone of “self-hosting” and “federation” :)\n
    \n
    tl;dr: some XMPP servers started to deploy a mod to report back about how they federate with the rest of the network, and now there is a pretty graph to show for it at [xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html](https://xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html)
    """
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  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1706129600 {#1793
    date: 2024-01-24 21:53:20.0 +01:00
  }
}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4029
  +user: App\Entity\User {#3977 …}
  +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2419
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1970 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
      +name: "selfhosted@lemmy.world"
      +title: "selfhosted"
      +description: """
        A place to share alternatives to popular online services that can be self-hosted without giving up privacy or locking you into a service you don’t control.\n
        \n
        Rules:\n
        \n
        - Be civil: we’re here to support and learn from one another. Insults won’t be tolerated. Flame wars are frowned upon.\n
        - No spam posting.\n
        - Don’t duplicate the full text of your blog or github here. Just post the link for folks to click.\n
        - Submission headline should match the article title (don’t cherry-pick information from the title to fit your agenda).\n
        - No trolling.\n
        \n
        Resources:\n
        \n
        - [awesome-selfhosted software](https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted)\n
        - [awesome-sysadmin](https://github.com/awesome-foss/awesome-sysadmin) resources\n
        - [Self-Hosted Podcast from Jupiter Broadcasting](https://selfhosted.show)\n
        \n
        &gt; Any issues on the community? Report it using the report flag.\n
        \n
        &gt; Questions? DM the mods!
        """
      +rules: null
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      +entryCount: 222
      +entryCommentCount: 3916
      +postCount: 0
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      +lastActive: DateTime @1729582735 {#275
        date: 2024-10-22 09:38:55.0 +02:00
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      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +tags: null
      +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#237 …}
      +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#222 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#180 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#138 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#200 …}
      +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#117 …}
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1912 …}
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    +title: "Creating the XMPP Network Graph"
    +url: "https://discourse.igniterealtime.org/t/creating-the-xmpp-network-graph/93521"
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      Sorry if this isn’t the right venue for that, I thought it’d be in the tone of “self-hosting” and “federation” :)\n
      \n
      tl;dr: some XMPP servers started to deploy a mod to report back about how they federate with the rest of the network, and now there is a pretty graph to show for it at [xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html](https://xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html)
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  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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  +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2419
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1970 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
      +name: "selfhosted@lemmy.world"
      +title: "selfhosted"
      +description: """
        A place to share alternatives to popular online services that can be self-hosted without giving up privacy or locking you into a service you don’t control.\n
        \n
        Rules:\n
        \n
        - Be civil: we’re here to support and learn from one another. Insults won’t be tolerated. Flame wars are frowned upon.\n
        - No spam posting.\n
        - Don’t duplicate the full text of your blog or github here. Just post the link for folks to click.\n
        - Submission headline should match the article title (don’t cherry-pick information from the title to fit your agenda).\n
        - No trolling.\n
        \n
        Resources:\n
        \n
        - [awesome-selfhosted software](https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted)\n
        - [awesome-sysadmin](https://github.com/awesome-foss/awesome-sysadmin) resources\n
        - [Self-Hosted Podcast from Jupiter Broadcasting](https://selfhosted.show)\n
        \n
        &gt; Any issues on the community? Report it using the report flag.\n
        \n
        &gt; Questions? DM the mods!
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703473826 {#271
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1912 …}
    +slug: "Creating-the-XMPP-Network-Graph"
    +title: "Creating the XMPP Network Graph"
    +url: "https://discourse.igniterealtime.org/t/creating-the-xmpp-network-graph/93521"
    +body: """
      Sorry if this isn’t the right venue for that, I thought it’d be in the tone of “self-hosting” and “federation” :)\n
      \n
      tl;dr: some XMPP servers started to deploy a mod to report back about how they federate with the rest of the network, and now there is a pretty graph to show for it at [xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html](https://xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html)
      """
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  +image: null
  +parent: null
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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  +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2419
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1970 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
      +name: "selfhosted@lemmy.world"
      +title: "selfhosted"
      +description: """
        A place to share alternatives to popular online services that can be self-hosted without giving up privacy or locking you into a service you don’t control.\n
        \n
        Rules:\n
        \n
        - Be civil: we’re here to support and learn from one another. Insults won’t be tolerated. Flame wars are frowned upon.\n
        - No spam posting.\n
        - Don’t duplicate the full text of your blog or github here. Just post the link for folks to click.\n
        - Submission headline should match the article title (don’t cherry-pick information from the title to fit your agenda).\n
        - No trolling.\n
        \n
        Resources:\n
        \n
        - [awesome-selfhosted software](https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted)\n
        - [awesome-sysadmin](https://github.com/awesome-foss/awesome-sysadmin) resources\n
        - [Self-Hosted Podcast from Jupiter Broadcasting](https://selfhosted.show)\n
        \n
        &gt; Any issues on the community? Report it using the report flag.\n
        \n
        &gt; Questions? DM the mods!
        """
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#1943 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1912 …}
    +slug: "Creating-the-XMPP-Network-Graph"
    +title: "Creating the XMPP Network Graph"
    +url: "https://discourse.igniterealtime.org/t/creating-the-xmpp-network-graph/93521"
    +body: """
      Sorry if this isn’t the right venue for that, I thought it’d be in the tone of “self-hosting” and “federation” :)\n
      \n
      tl;dr: some XMPP servers started to deploy a mod to report back about how they federate with the rest of the network, and now there is a pretty graph to show for it at [xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html](https://xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html)
      """
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  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265}
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
  +body: "I’ve never used XMPP. Can someone compare it with Matrix?"
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4152
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      +name: "selfhosted@lemmy.world"
      +title: "selfhosted"
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        \n
        Rules:\n
        \n
        - Be civil: we’re here to support and learn from one another. Insults won’t be tolerated. Flame wars are frowned upon.\n
        - No spam posting.\n
        - Don’t duplicate the full text of your blog or github here. Just post the link for folks to click.\n
        - Submission headline should match the article title (don’t cherry-pick information from the title to fit your agenda).\n
        - No trolling.\n
        \n
        Resources:\n
        \n
        - [awesome-selfhosted software](https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted)\n
        - [awesome-sysadmin](https://github.com/awesome-foss/awesome-sysadmin) resources\n
        - [Self-Hosted Podcast from Jupiter Broadcasting](https://selfhosted.show)\n
        \n
        &gt; Any issues on the community? Report it using the report flag.\n
        \n
        &gt; Questions? DM the mods!
        """
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#1943 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1912 …}
    +slug: "Creating-the-XMPP-Network-Graph"
    +title: "Creating the XMPP Network Graph"
    +url: "https://discourse.igniterealtime.org/t/creating-the-xmpp-network-graph/93521"
    +body: """
      Sorry if this isn’t the right venue for that, I thought it’d be in the tone of “self-hosting” and “federation” :)\n
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        \n
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        - No spam posting.\n
        - Don’t duplicate the full text of your blog or github here. Just post the link for folks to click.\n
        - Submission headline should match the article title (don’t cherry-pick information from the title to fit your agenda).\n
        - No trolling.\n
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        \n
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        - [awesome-sysadmin](https://github.com/awesome-foss/awesome-sysadmin) resources\n
        - [Self-Hosted Podcast from Jupiter Broadcasting](https://selfhosted.show)\n
        \n
        &gt; Any issues on the community? Report it using the report flag.\n
        \n
        &gt; Questions? DM the mods!
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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      +name: "selfhosted@lemmy.world"
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        \n
        Rules:\n
        \n
        - Be civil: we’re here to support and learn from one another. Insults won’t be tolerated. Flame wars are frowned upon.\n
        - No spam posting.\n
        - Don’t duplicate the full text of your blog or github here. Just post the link for folks to click.\n
        - Submission headline should match the article title (don’t cherry-pick information from the title to fit your agenda).\n
        - No trolling.\n
        \n
        Resources:\n
        \n
        - [awesome-selfhosted software](https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted)\n
        - [awesome-sysadmin](https://github.com/awesome-foss/awesome-sysadmin) resources\n
        - [Self-Hosted Podcast from Jupiter Broadcasting](https://selfhosted.show)\n
        \n
        &gt; Any issues on the community? Report it using the report flag.\n
        \n
        &gt; Questions? DM the mods!
        """
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    +url: "https://discourse.igniterealtime.org/t/creating-the-xmpp-network-graph/93521"
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      Sorry if this isn’t the right venue for that, I thought it’d be in the tone of “self-hosting” and “federation” :)\n
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      """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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        \n
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        - No spam posting.\n
        - Don’t duplicate the full text of your blog or github here. Just post the link for folks to click.\n
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        - No trolling.\n
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        - [awesome-sysadmin](https://github.com/awesome-foss/awesome-sysadmin) resources\n
        - [Self-Hosted Podcast from Jupiter Broadcasting](https://selfhosted.show)\n
        \n
        &gt; Any issues on the community? Report it using the report flag.\n
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      Sorry if this isn’t the right venue for that, I thought it’d be in the tone of “self-hosting” and “federation” :)\n
      \n
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      """
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  +body: """
    They both qualify as “open, federated messaging protocols”, with XMPP being the oldest (about 25 years old) and an internet standard (IETF) but at this point we can consider Matrix to be quite old, too (10 years old). On the paper they are quite interchangeable, they both focus on bridging with established protocols, etc.\n
    \n
    Where things differ, though, is that Matrix is practically a single vendor implementation: the same organization (Element/New Vector/ however it’s called these days) develops both the reference client and the reference server. Which incidentally is super complex, not well documented (the code is the documentation), and practically not compatible with the other (semi-official) implementations. This is a red herring because it also happens that this organization was built on venture capital money with no financial stability in sight. XMPP is a much more diverse and accessible ecosystem: there are multiple independent teams and corporations implementing servers and clients, the protocol itself is very stable, versatile and extensible. This is how you can find XMPP today running the backbone of the modern internet, dispatching notifications to all Android devices, being the signaling system behind millions of IoT devices, providing messaging to billion of users (WhatsApp is, by the way, based on XMPP)\n
    \n
    Another significant difference is that, despite 10 years of existence and millions invested into it, Matrix still has not reached stability (and probably never will): the organization recently announced Matrix 2 as the (yet another) definitive answer to the protocol’s shortcomings, without changing anything to what makes the protocol so painful to work with, and the requirements (compute, memory, bandwidth) to run Matrix at even a small scale are still orders of magnitude higher than XMPP. This discouraged many organizations (even serious ones, like Mozilla, KDE, …) from running Matrix themselves and further contributes to the de-facto centralization and single point of control federated protocols are meant to prevent.
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4176
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      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
      +name: "selfhosted@lemmy.world"
      +title: "selfhosted"
      +description: """
        A place to share alternatives to popular online services that can be self-hosted without giving up privacy or locking you into a service you don’t control.\n
        \n
        Rules:\n
        \n
        - Be civil: we’re here to support and learn from one another. Insults won’t be tolerated. Flame wars are frowned upon.\n
        - No spam posting.\n
        - Don’t duplicate the full text of your blog or github here. Just post the link for folks to click.\n
        - Submission headline should match the article title (don’t cherry-pick information from the title to fit your agenda).\n
        - No trolling.\n
        \n
        Resources:\n
        \n
        - [awesome-selfhosted software](https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted)\n
        - [awesome-sysadmin](https://github.com/awesome-foss/awesome-sysadmin) resources\n
        - [Self-Hosted Podcast from Jupiter Broadcasting](https://selfhosted.show)\n
        \n
        &gt; Any issues on the community? Report it using the report flag.\n
        \n
        &gt; Questions? DM the mods!
        """
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    +title: "Creating the XMPP Network Graph"
    +url: "https://discourse.igniterealtime.org/t/creating-the-xmpp-network-graph/93521"
    +body: """
      Sorry if this isn’t the right venue for that, I thought it’d be in the tone of “self-hosting” and “federation” :)\n
      \n
      tl;dr: some XMPP servers started to deploy a mod to report back about how they federate with the rest of the network, and now there is a pretty graph to show for it at [xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html](https://xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html)
      """
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  +body: """
    They both qualify as “open, federated messaging protocols”, with XMPP being the oldest (about 25 years old) and an internet standard (IETF) but at this point we can consider Matrix to be quite old, too (10 years old). On the paper they are quite interchangeable, they both focus on bridging with established protocols, etc.\n
    \n
    Where things differ, though, is that Matrix is practically a single vendor implementation: the same organization (Element/New Vector/ however it’s called these days) develops both the reference client and the reference server. Which incidentally is super complex, not well documented (the code is the documentation), and practically not compatible with the other (semi-official) implementations. This is a red herring because it also happens that this organization was built on venture capital money with no financial stability in sight. XMPP is a much more diverse and accessible ecosystem: there are multiple independent teams and corporations implementing servers and clients, the protocol itself is very stable, versatile and extensible. This is how you can find XMPP today running the backbone of the modern internet, dispatching notifications to all Android devices, being the signaling system behind millions of IoT devices, providing messaging to billion of users (WhatsApp is, by the way, based on XMPP)\n
    \n
    Another significant difference is that, despite 10 years of existence and millions invested into it, Matrix still has not reached stability (and probably never will): the organization recently announced Matrix 2 as the (yet another) definitive answer to the protocol’s shortcomings, without changing anything to what makes the protocol so painful to work with, and the requirements (compute, memory, bandwidth) to run Matrix at even a small scale are still orders of magnitude higher than XMPP. This discouraged many organizations (even serious ones, like Mozilla, KDE, …) from running Matrix themselves and further contributes to the de-facto centralization and single point of control federated protocols are meant to prevent.
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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        \n
        Rules:\n
        \n
        - Be civil: we’re here to support and learn from one another. Insults won’t be tolerated. Flame wars are frowned upon.\n
        - No spam posting.\n
        - Don’t duplicate the full text of your blog or github here. Just post the link for folks to click.\n
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        - No trolling.\n
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        - [awesome-sysadmin](https://github.com/awesome-foss/awesome-sysadmin) resources\n
        - [Self-Hosted Podcast from Jupiter Broadcasting](https://selfhosted.show)\n
        \n
        &gt; Any issues on the community? Report it using the report flag.\n
        \n
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      Sorry if this isn’t the right venue for that, I thought it’d be in the tone of “self-hosting” and “federation” :)\n
      \n
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  +body: """
    They both qualify as “open, federated messaging protocols”, with XMPP being the oldest (about 25 years old) and an internet standard (IETF) but at this point we can consider Matrix to be quite old, too (10 years old). On the paper they are quite interchangeable, they both focus on bridging with established protocols, etc.\n
    \n
    Where things differ, though, is that Matrix is practically a single vendor implementation: the same organization (Element/New Vector/ however it’s called these days) develops both the reference client and the reference server. Which incidentally is super complex, not well documented (the code is the documentation), and practically not compatible with the other (semi-official) implementations. This is a red herring because it also happens that this organization was built on venture capital money with no financial stability in sight. XMPP is a much more diverse and accessible ecosystem: there are multiple independent teams and corporations implementing servers and clients, the protocol itself is very stable, versatile and extensible. This is how you can find XMPP today running the backbone of the modern internet, dispatching notifications to all Android devices, being the signaling system behind millions of IoT devices, providing messaging to billion of users (WhatsApp is, by the way, based on XMPP)\n
    \n
    Another significant difference is that, despite 10 years of existence and millions invested into it, Matrix still has not reached stability (and probably never will): the organization recently announced Matrix 2 as the (yet another) definitive answer to the protocol’s shortcomings, without changing anything to what makes the protocol so painful to work with, and the requirements (compute, memory, bandwidth) to run Matrix at even a small scale are still orders of magnitude higher than XMPP. This discouraged many organizations (even serious ones, like Mozilla, KDE, …) from running Matrix themselves and further contributes to the de-facto centralization and single point of control federated protocols are meant to prevent.
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4190
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      +title: "selfhosted"
      +description: """
        A place to share alternatives to popular online services that can be self-hosted without giving up privacy or locking you into a service you don’t control.\n
        \n
        Rules:\n
        \n
        - Be civil: we’re here to support and learn from one another. Insults won’t be tolerated. Flame wars are frowned upon.\n
        - No spam posting.\n
        - Don’t duplicate the full text of your blog or github here. Just post the link for folks to click.\n
        - Submission headline should match the article title (don’t cherry-pick information from the title to fit your agenda).\n
        - No trolling.\n
        \n
        Resources:\n
        \n
        - [awesome-selfhosted software](https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted)\n
        - [awesome-sysadmin](https://github.com/awesome-foss/awesome-sysadmin) resources\n
        - [Self-Hosted Podcast from Jupiter Broadcasting](https://selfhosted.show)\n
        \n
        &gt; Any issues on the community? Report it using the report flag.\n
        \n
        &gt; Questions? DM the mods!
        """
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    +title: "Creating the XMPP Network Graph"
    +url: "https://discourse.igniterealtime.org/t/creating-the-xmpp-network-graph/93521"
    +body: """
      Sorry if this isn’t the right venue for that, I thought it’d be in the tone of “self-hosting” and “federation” :)\n
      \n
      tl;dr: some XMPP servers started to deploy a mod to report back about how they federate with the rest of the network, and now there is a pretty graph to show for it at [xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html](https://xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html)
      """
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4029}
    +body: """
      They both qualify as “open, federated messaging protocols”, with XMPP being the oldest (about 25 years old) and an internet standard (IETF) but at this point we can consider Matrix to be quite old, too (10 years old). On the paper they are quite interchangeable, they both focus on bridging with established protocols, etc.\n
      \n
      Where things differ, though, is that Matrix is practically a single vendor implementation: the same organization (Element/New Vector/ however it’s called these days) develops both the reference client and the reference server. Which incidentally is super complex, not well documented (the code is the documentation), and practically not compatible with the other (semi-official) implementations. This is a red herring because it also happens that this organization was built on venture capital money with no financial stability in sight. XMPP is a much more diverse and accessible ecosystem: there are multiple independent teams and corporations implementing servers and clients, the protocol itself is very stable, versatile and extensible. This is how you can find XMPP today running the backbone of the modern internet, dispatching notifications to all Android devices, being the signaling system behind millions of IoT devices, providing messaging to billion of users (WhatsApp is, by the way, based on XMPP)\n
      \n
      Another significant difference is that, despite 10 years of existence and millions invested into it, Matrix still has not reached stability (and probably never will): the organization recently announced Matrix 2 as the (yet another) definitive answer to the protocol’s shortcomings, without changing anything to what makes the protocol so painful to work with, and the requirements (compute, memory, bandwidth) to run Matrix at even a small scale are still orders of magnitude higher than XMPP. This discouraged many organizations (even serious ones, like Mozilla, KDE, …) from running Matrix themselves and further contributes to the de-facto centralization and single point of control federated protocols are meant to prevent.
      """
    +lang: "en"
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    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4177 …}
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    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4183 …}
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      date: 2024-01-25 09:50:52.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4029}
  +body: """
    I’ve used Matrix for months and agree with most points. I would like to try XMPP but it is clear that it does not have the best onboarding experience.\n
    \n
    The *problem* I’ve observed with XMPP as an outsider is the lack of a standard. Each server or client has its own supported features and I’m not sure which one to choose.\n
    \n
    Which client would you recommend?
    """
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  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4198 …}
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  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4205 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4207 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4209 …}
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    date: 2024-01-25 10:51:30.0 +01:00
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4190
  +user: App\Entity\User {#3977 …}
  +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2419
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1970 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
      +name: "selfhosted@lemmy.world"
      +title: "selfhosted"
      +description: """
        A place to share alternatives to popular online services that can be self-hosted without giving up privacy or locking you into a service you don’t control.\n
        \n
        Rules:\n
        \n
        - Be civil: we’re here to support and learn from one another. Insults won’t be tolerated. Flame wars are frowned upon.\n
        - No spam posting.\n
        - Don’t duplicate the full text of your blog or github here. Just post the link for folks to click.\n
        - Submission headline should match the article title (don’t cherry-pick information from the title to fit your agenda).\n
        - No trolling.\n
        \n
        Resources:\n
        \n
        - [awesome-selfhosted software](https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted)\n
        - [awesome-sysadmin](https://github.com/awesome-foss/awesome-sysadmin) resources\n
        - [Self-Hosted Podcast from Jupiter Broadcasting](https://selfhosted.show)\n
        \n
        &gt; Any issues on the community? Report it using the report flag.\n
        \n
        &gt; Questions? DM the mods!
        """
      +rules: null
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        date: 2024-10-22 09:38:55.0 +02:00
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      +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#237 …}
      +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#222 …}
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      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#138 …}
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      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#103 …}
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      +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#71 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1346 …}
      +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1823 …}
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      +apId: "selfhosted@lemmy.world"
      +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted"
      +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted"
      +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted/followers"
      +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
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      +apPreferredUsername: "selfhosted"
      +apDiscoverable: true
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      +publicKey: null
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        date: 2023-12-25 04:10:26.0 +01:00
      }
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      +visibility: "visible             "
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        date: 2023-12-25 04:10:26.0 +01:00
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    }
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#1943 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1912 …}
    +slug: "Creating-the-XMPP-Network-Graph"
    +title: "Creating the XMPP Network Graph"
    +url: "https://discourse.igniterealtime.org/t/creating-the-xmpp-network-graph/93521"
    +body: """
      Sorry if this isn’t the right venue for that, I thought it’d be in the tone of “self-hosting” and “federation” :)\n
      \n
      tl;dr: some XMPP servers started to deploy a mod to report back about how they federate with the rest of the network, and now there is a pretty graph to show for it at [xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html](https://xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html)
      """
    +type: "link"
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    +ip: null
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1866 …}
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      date: 2024-01-24 21:53:20.0 +01:00
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  }
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265}
  +image: null
  +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4176
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1970 …}
    +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2419}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265}
    +image: null
    +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4029
      +user: App\Entity\User {#3977 …}
      +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2419}
      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265}
      +image: null
      +parent: null
      +root: null
      +body: "I’ve never used XMPP. Can someone compare it with Matrix?"
      +lang: "en"
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        "@u_tamtam@programming.dev"
        "@u_tamtam@programming.dev"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4027 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4025 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4023 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4021 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3989 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3993 …}
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      +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1728516868 {#3975
        date: 2024-10-10 01:34:28.0 +02:00
      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1706166868 {#4038
        date: 2024-01-25 08:14:28.0 +01:00
      }
    }
    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4029}
    +body: """
      They both qualify as “open, federated messaging protocols”, with XMPP being the oldest (about 25 years old) and an internet standard (IETF) but at this point we can consider Matrix to be quite old, too (10 years old). On the paper they are quite interchangeable, they both focus on bridging with established protocols, etc.\n
      \n
      Where things differ, though, is that Matrix is practically a single vendor implementation: the same organization (Element/New Vector/ however it’s called these days) develops both the reference client and the reference server. Which incidentally is super complex, not well documented (the code is the documentation), and practically not compatible with the other (semi-official) implementations. This is a red herring because it also happens that this organization was built on venture capital money with no financial stability in sight. XMPP is a much more diverse and accessible ecosystem: there are multiple independent teams and corporations implementing servers and clients, the protocol itself is very stable, versatile and extensible. This is how you can find XMPP today running the backbone of the modern internet, dispatching notifications to all Android devices, being the signaling system behind millions of IoT devices, providing messaging to billion of users (WhatsApp is, by the way, based on XMPP)\n
      \n
      Another significant difference is that, despite 10 years of existence and millions invested into it, Matrix still has not reached stability (and probably never will): the organization recently announced Matrix 2 as the (yet another) definitive answer to the protocol’s shortcomings, without changing anything to what makes the protocol so painful to work with, and the requirements (compute, memory, bandwidth) to run Matrix at even a small scale are still orders of magnitude higher than XMPP. This discouraged many organizations (even serious ones, like Mozilla, KDE, …) from running Matrix themselves and further contributes to the de-facto centralization and single point of control federated protocols are meant to prevent.
      """
    +lang: "en"
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      "@u_tamtam@programming.dev"
      "@iso@lemy.lol"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4177 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4179 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4181 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4183 …}
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    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4187 …}
    -id: 338818
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    +ranking: 0
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    +visibility: "visible             "
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    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1706172652 {#4175
      date: 2024-01-25 09:50:52.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4029}
  +body: """
    I’ve used Matrix for months and agree with most points. I would like to try XMPP but it is clear that it does not have the best onboarding experience.\n
    \n
    The *problem* I’ve observed with XMPP as an outsider is the lack of a standard. Each server or client has its own supported features and I’m not sure which one to choose.\n
    \n
    Which client would you recommend?
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
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    date: 2024-01-25 10:51:30.0 +01:00
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    "@u_tamtam@programming.dev"
    "@iso@lemy.lol"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4198 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4202 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4204 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4205 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4207 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4209 …}
  -id: 338889
  -bodyTs: "'agre':8 'best':28 'choos':64 'clear':21 'client':50,66 'experi':30 'featur':55 'lack':43 'like':14 'm':58 'matrix':4 'month':6 'observ':35 'onboard':29 'one':62 'outsid':40 'point':11 'problem':32 'recommend':69 'server':48 'standard':46 'support':54 'sure':60 'tri':16 'use':3 've':2,34 'would':13,67 'xmpp':17,37"
  +ranking: 0
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  +visibility: "visible             "
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    date: 2024-01-25 10:51:30.0 +01:00
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4190
  +user: App\Entity\User {#3977 …}
  +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2419
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1970 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
      +name: "selfhosted@lemmy.world"
      +title: "selfhosted"
      +description: """
        A place to share alternatives to popular online services that can be self-hosted without giving up privacy or locking you into a service you don’t control.\n
        \n
        Rules:\n
        \n
        - Be civil: we’re here to support and learn from one another. Insults won’t be tolerated. Flame wars are frowned upon.\n
        - No spam posting.\n
        - Don’t duplicate the full text of your blog or github here. Just post the link for folks to click.\n
        - Submission headline should match the article title (don’t cherry-pick information from the title to fit your agenda).\n
        - No trolling.\n
        \n
        Resources:\n
        \n
        - [awesome-selfhosted software](https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted)\n
        - [awesome-sysadmin](https://github.com/awesome-foss/awesome-sysadmin) resources\n
        - [Self-Hosted Podcast from Jupiter Broadcasting](https://selfhosted.show)\n
        \n
        &gt; Any issues on the community? Report it using the report flag.\n
        \n
        &gt; Questions? DM the mods!
        """
      +rules: null
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      +entryCommentCount: 3916
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        date: 2024-10-22 09:38:55.0 +02:00
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      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +tags: null
      +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#237 …}
      +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#222 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#180 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#138 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#200 …}
      +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#117 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#103 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#81 …}
      +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#71 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1346 …}
      +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1823 …}
      -id: 120
      +apId: "selfhosted@lemmy.world"
      +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted"
      +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted"
      +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted/followers"
      +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
      +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
      +apPreferredUsername: "selfhosted"
      +apDiscoverable: true
      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
      +privateKey: null
      +publicKey: null
      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1703473826 {#269
        date: 2023-12-25 04:10:26.0 +01:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
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      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703473826 {#271
        date: 2023-12-25 04:10:26.0 +01:00
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    }
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#1943 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1912 …}
    +slug: "Creating-the-XMPP-Network-Graph"
    +title: "Creating the XMPP Network Graph"
    +url: "https://discourse.igniterealtime.org/t/creating-the-xmpp-network-graph/93521"
    +body: """
      Sorry if this isn’t the right venue for that, I thought it’d be in the tone of “self-hosting” and “federation” :)\n
      \n
      tl;dr: some XMPP servers started to deploy a mod to report back about how they federate with the rest of the network, and now there is a pretty graph to show for it at [xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html](https://xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html)
      """
    +type: "link"
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      date: 2024-01-24 21:53:20.0 +01:00
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  }
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      +body: "I’ve never used XMPP. Can someone compare it with Matrix?"
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        date: 2024-01-25 08:14:28.0 +01:00
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    }
    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4029}
    +body: """
      They both qualify as “open, federated messaging protocols”, with XMPP being the oldest (about 25 years old) and an internet standard (IETF) but at this point we can consider Matrix to be quite old, too (10 years old). On the paper they are quite interchangeable, they both focus on bridging with established protocols, etc.\n
      \n
      Where things differ, though, is that Matrix is practically a single vendor implementation: the same organization (Element/New Vector/ however it’s called these days) develops both the reference client and the reference server. Which incidentally is super complex, not well documented (the code is the documentation), and practically not compatible with the other (semi-official) implementations. This is a red herring because it also happens that this organization was built on venture capital money with no financial stability in sight. XMPP is a much more diverse and accessible ecosystem: there are multiple independent teams and corporations implementing servers and clients, the protocol itself is very stable, versatile and extensible. This is how you can find XMPP today running the backbone of the modern internet, dispatching notifications to all Android devices, being the signaling system behind millions of IoT devices, providing messaging to billion of users (WhatsApp is, by the way, based on XMPP)\n
      \n
      Another significant difference is that, despite 10 years of existence and millions invested into it, Matrix still has not reached stability (and probably never will): the organization recently announced Matrix 2 as the (yet another) definitive answer to the protocol’s shortcomings, without changing anything to what makes the protocol so painful to work with, and the requirements (compute, memory, bandwidth) to run Matrix at even a small scale are still orders of magnitude higher than XMPP. This discouraged many organizations (even serious ones, like Mozilla, KDE, …) from running Matrix themselves and further contributes to the de-facto centralization and single point of control federated protocols are meant to prevent.
      """
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4029}
  +body: """
    I’ve used Matrix for months and agree with most points. I would like to try XMPP but it is clear that it does not have the best onboarding experience.\n
    \n
    The *problem* I’ve observed with XMPP as an outsider is the lack of a standard. Each server or client has its own supported features and I’m not sure which one to choose.\n
    \n
    Which client would you recommend?
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4226
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      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
      +name: "selfhosted@lemmy.world"
      +title: "selfhosted"
      +description: """
        A place to share alternatives to popular online services that can be self-hosted without giving up privacy or locking you into a service you don’t control.\n
        \n
        Rules:\n
        \n
        - Be civil: we’re here to support and learn from one another. Insults won’t be tolerated. Flame wars are frowned upon.\n
        - No spam posting.\n
        - Don’t duplicate the full text of your blog or github here. Just post the link for folks to click.\n
        - Submission headline should match the article title (don’t cherry-pick information from the title to fit your agenda).\n
        - No trolling.\n
        \n
        Resources:\n
        \n
        - [awesome-selfhosted software](https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted)\n
        - [awesome-sysadmin](https://github.com/awesome-foss/awesome-sysadmin) resources\n
        - [Self-Hosted Podcast from Jupiter Broadcasting](https://selfhosted.show)\n
        \n
        &gt; Any issues on the community? Report it using the report flag.\n
        \n
        &gt; Questions? DM the mods!
        """
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      +apPreferredUsername: "selfhosted"
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#1943 …}
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    +slug: "Creating-the-XMPP-Network-Graph"
    +title: "Creating the XMPP Network Graph"
    +url: "https://discourse.igniterealtime.org/t/creating-the-xmpp-network-graph/93521"
    +body: """
      Sorry if this isn’t the right venue for that, I thought it’d be in the tone of “self-hosting” and “federation” :)\n
      \n
      tl;dr: some XMPP servers started to deploy a mod to report back about how they federate with the rest of the network, and now there is a pretty graph to show for it at [xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html](https://xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html)
      """
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        +body: "I’ve never used XMPP. Can someone compare it with Matrix?"
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      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4029}
      +body: """
        They both qualify as “open, federated messaging protocols”, with XMPP being the oldest (about 25 years old) and an internet standard (IETF) but at this point we can consider Matrix to be quite old, too (10 years old). On the paper they are quite interchangeable, they both focus on bridging with established protocols, etc.\n
        \n
        Where things differ, though, is that Matrix is practically a single vendor implementation: the same organization (Element/New Vector/ however it’s called these days) develops both the reference client and the reference server. Which incidentally is super complex, not well documented (the code is the documentation), and practically not compatible with the other (semi-official) implementations. This is a red herring because it also happens that this organization was built on venture capital money with no financial stability in sight. XMPP is a much more diverse and accessible ecosystem: there are multiple independent teams and corporations implementing servers and clients, the protocol itself is very stable, versatile and extensible. This is how you can find XMPP today running the backbone of the modern internet, dispatching notifications to all Android devices, being the signaling system behind millions of IoT devices, providing messaging to billion of users (WhatsApp is, by the way, based on XMPP)\n
        \n
        Another significant difference is that, despite 10 years of existence and millions invested into it, Matrix still has not reached stability (and probably never will): the organization recently announced Matrix 2 as the (yet another) definitive answer to the protocol’s shortcomings, without changing anything to what makes the protocol so painful to work with, and the requirements (compute, memory, bandwidth) to run Matrix at even a small scale are still orders of magnitude higher than XMPP. This discouraged many organizations (even serious ones, like Mozilla, KDE, …) from running Matrix themselves and further contributes to the de-facto centralization and single point of control federated protocols are meant to prevent.
        """
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      +ranking: 0
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        date: 2024-01-25 09:50:52.0 +01:00
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    }
    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4029}
    +body: """
      I’ve used Matrix for months and agree with most points. I would like to try XMPP but it is clear that it does not have the best onboarding experience.\n
      \n
      The *problem* I’ve observed with XMPP as an outsider is the lack of a standard. Each server or client has its own supported features and I’m not sure which one to choose.\n
      \n
      Which client would you recommend?
      """
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      "@iso@lemy.lol"
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  +body: """
    > The *problem* I’ve observed with XMPP as an outsider is the lack of a standard. Each server or client has its own supported features and I’m not sure which one to choose.\n
    \n
    That’s a valid concern, but I wouldn’t call it a problem. There are practically 2 types of clients/servers: the ones which are maintained, and which work absolutely fine and well together, and the rest, the unmaintained/abandoned part of the ecosystem.\n
    \n
    And with the protocol being so stable and backwards/forwards compatible in large parts, those unmaintained clients will just work, just not with the latest and greatest features (XMPP has the machinery to let clients and servers advertise about their supported features so the experience is at least cohesive).\n
    \n
    > Which client would you recommend?\n
    \n
    Depends on which platform you are on and the type of usage. You should be able to pick one as advertised on [joinjabber.org](https://joinjabber.org) , that should keep you away from the fringe/unmaintained stuff. Personally I use gajim and monocles.
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1970 …}
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      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
      +name: "selfhosted@lemmy.world"
      +title: "selfhosted"
      +description: """
        A place to share alternatives to popular online services that can be self-hosted without giving up privacy or locking you into a service you don’t control.\n
        \n
        Rules:\n
        \n
        - Be civil: we’re here to support and learn from one another. Insults won’t be tolerated. Flame wars are frowned upon.\n
        - No spam posting.\n
        - Don’t duplicate the full text of your blog or github here. Just post the link for folks to click.\n
        - Submission headline should match the article title (don’t cherry-pick information from the title to fit your agenda).\n
        - No trolling.\n
        \n
        Resources:\n
        \n
        - [awesome-selfhosted software](https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted)\n
        - [awesome-sysadmin](https://github.com/awesome-foss/awesome-sysadmin) resources\n
        - [Self-Hosted Podcast from Jupiter Broadcasting](https://selfhosted.show)\n
        \n
        &gt; Any issues on the community? Report it using the report flag.\n
        \n
        &gt; Questions? DM the mods!
        """
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      +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
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      +apPreferredUsername: "selfhosted"
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    +title: "Creating the XMPP Network Graph"
    +url: "https://discourse.igniterealtime.org/t/creating-the-xmpp-network-graph/93521"
    +body: """
      Sorry if this isn’t the right venue for that, I thought it’d be in the tone of “self-hosting” and “federation” :)\n
      \n
      tl;dr: some XMPP servers started to deploy a mod to report back about how they federate with the rest of the network, and now there is a pretty graph to show for it at [xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html](https://xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html)
      """
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        +body: "I’ve never used XMPP. Can someone compare it with Matrix?"
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      +body: """
        They both qualify as “open, federated messaging protocols”, with XMPP being the oldest (about 25 years old) and an internet standard (IETF) but at this point we can consider Matrix to be quite old, too (10 years old). On the paper they are quite interchangeable, they both focus on bridging with established protocols, etc.\n
        \n
        Where things differ, though, is that Matrix is practically a single vendor implementation: the same organization (Element/New Vector/ however it’s called these days) develops both the reference client and the reference server. Which incidentally is super complex, not well documented (the code is the documentation), and practically not compatible with the other (semi-official) implementations. This is a red herring because it also happens that this organization was built on venture capital money with no financial stability in sight. XMPP is a much more diverse and accessible ecosystem: there are multiple independent teams and corporations implementing servers and clients, the protocol itself is very stable, versatile and extensible. This is how you can find XMPP today running the backbone of the modern internet, dispatching notifications to all Android devices, being the signaling system behind millions of IoT devices, providing messaging to billion of users (WhatsApp is, by the way, based on XMPP)\n
        \n
        Another significant difference is that, despite 10 years of existence and millions invested into it, Matrix still has not reached stability (and probably never will): the organization recently announced Matrix 2 as the (yet another) definitive answer to the protocol’s shortcomings, without changing anything to what makes the protocol so painful to work with, and the requirements (compute, memory, bandwidth) to run Matrix at even a small scale are still orders of magnitude higher than XMPP. This discouraged many organizations (even serious ones, like Mozilla, KDE, …) from running Matrix themselves and further contributes to the de-facto centralization and single point of control federated protocols are meant to prevent.
        """
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    +body: """
      I’ve used Matrix for months and agree with most points. I would like to try XMPP but it is clear that it does not have the best onboarding experience.\n
      \n
      The *problem* I’ve observed with XMPP as an outsider is the lack of a standard. Each server or client has its own supported features and I’m not sure which one to choose.\n
      \n
      Which client would you recommend?
      """
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  +body: """
    > The *problem* I’ve observed with XMPP as an outsider is the lack of a standard. Each server or client has its own supported features and I’m not sure which one to choose.\n
    \n
    That’s a valid concern, but I wouldn’t call it a problem. There are practically 2 types of clients/servers: the ones which are maintained, and which work absolutely fine and well together, and the rest, the unmaintained/abandoned part of the ecosystem.\n
    \n
    And with the protocol being so stable and backwards/forwards compatible in large parts, those unmaintained clients will just work, just not with the latest and greatest features (XMPP has the machinery to let clients and servers advertise about their supported features so the experience is at least cohesive).\n
    \n
    > Which client would you recommend?\n
    \n
    Depends on which platform you are on and the type of usage. You should be able to pick one as advertised on [joinjabber.org](https://joinjabber.org) , that should keep you away from the fringe/unmaintained stuff. Personally I use gajim and monocles.
    """
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4226
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1970 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
      +name: "selfhosted@lemmy.world"
      +title: "selfhosted"
      +description: """
        A place to share alternatives to popular online services that can be self-hosted without giving up privacy or locking you into a service you don’t control.\n
        \n
        Rules:\n
        \n
        - Be civil: we’re here to support and learn from one another. Insults won’t be tolerated. Flame wars are frowned upon.\n
        - No spam posting.\n
        - Don’t duplicate the full text of your blog or github here. Just post the link for folks to click.\n
        - Submission headline should match the article title (don’t cherry-pick information from the title to fit your agenda).\n
        - No trolling.\n
        \n
        Resources:\n
        \n
        - [awesome-selfhosted software](https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted)\n
        - [awesome-sysadmin](https://github.com/awesome-foss/awesome-sysadmin) resources\n
        - [Self-Hosted Podcast from Jupiter Broadcasting](https://selfhosted.show)\n
        \n
        &gt; Any issues on the community? Report it using the report flag.\n
        \n
        &gt; Questions? DM the mods!
        """
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      Sorry if this isn’t the right venue for that, I thought it’d be in the tone of “self-hosting” and “federation” :)\n
      \n
      tl;dr: some XMPP servers started to deploy a mod to report back about how they federate with the rest of the network, and now there is a pretty graph to show for it at [xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html](https://xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html)
      """
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      +body: """
        They both qualify as “open, federated messaging protocols”, with XMPP being the oldest (about 25 years old) and an internet standard (IETF) but at this point we can consider Matrix to be quite old, too (10 years old). On the paper they are quite interchangeable, they both focus on bridging with established protocols, etc.\n
        \n
        Where things differ, though, is that Matrix is practically a single vendor implementation: the same organization (Element/New Vector/ however it’s called these days) develops both the reference client and the reference server. Which incidentally is super complex, not well documented (the code is the documentation), and practically not compatible with the other (semi-official) implementations. This is a red herring because it also happens that this organization was built on venture capital money with no financial stability in sight. XMPP is a much more diverse and accessible ecosystem: there are multiple independent teams and corporations implementing servers and clients, the protocol itself is very stable, versatile and extensible. This is how you can find XMPP today running the backbone of the modern internet, dispatching notifications to all Android devices, being the signaling system behind millions of IoT devices, providing messaging to billion of users (WhatsApp is, by the way, based on XMPP)\n
        \n
        Another significant difference is that, despite 10 years of existence and millions invested into it, Matrix still has not reached stability (and probably never will): the organization recently announced Matrix 2 as the (yet another) definitive answer to the protocol’s shortcomings, without changing anything to what makes the protocol so painful to work with, and the requirements (compute, memory, bandwidth) to run Matrix at even a small scale are still orders of magnitude higher than XMPP. This discouraged many organizations (even serious ones, like Mozilla, KDE, …) from running Matrix themselves and further contributes to the de-facto centralization and single point of control federated protocols are meant to prevent.
        """
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      I’ve used Matrix for months and agree with most points. I would like to try XMPP but it is clear that it does not have the best onboarding experience.\n
      \n
      The *problem* I’ve observed with XMPP as an outsider is the lack of a standard. Each server or client has its own supported features and I’m not sure which one to choose.\n
      \n
      Which client would you recommend?
      """
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  +body: """
    > The *problem* I’ve observed with XMPP as an outsider is the lack of a standard. Each server or client has its own supported features and I’m not sure which one to choose.\n
    \n
    That’s a valid concern, but I wouldn’t call it a problem. There are practically 2 types of clients/servers: the ones which are maintained, and which work absolutely fine and well together, and the rest, the unmaintained/abandoned part of the ecosystem.\n
    \n
    And with the protocol being so stable and backwards/forwards compatible in large parts, those unmaintained clients will just work, just not with the latest and greatest features (XMPP has the machinery to let clients and servers advertise about their supported features so the experience is at least cohesive).\n
    \n
    > Which client would you recommend?\n
    \n
    Depends on which platform you are on and the type of usage. You should be able to pick one as advertised on [joinjabber.org](https://joinjabber.org) , that should keep you away from the fringe/unmaintained stuff. Personally I use gajim and monocles.
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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      +title: "selfhosted"
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        A place to share alternatives to popular online services that can be self-hosted without giving up privacy or locking you into a service you don’t control.\n
        \n
        Rules:\n
        \n
        - Be civil: we’re here to support and learn from one another. Insults won’t be tolerated. Flame wars are frowned upon.\n
        - No spam posting.\n
        - Don’t duplicate the full text of your blog or github here. Just post the link for folks to click.\n
        - Submission headline should match the article title (don’t cherry-pick information from the title to fit your agenda).\n
        - No trolling.\n
        \n
        Resources:\n
        \n
        - [awesome-selfhosted software](https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted)\n
        - [awesome-sysadmin](https://github.com/awesome-foss/awesome-sysadmin) resources\n
        - [Self-Hosted Podcast from Jupiter Broadcasting](https://selfhosted.show)\n
        \n
        &gt; Any issues on the community? Report it using the report flag.\n
        \n
        &gt; Questions? DM the mods!
        """
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    +title: "Creating the XMPP Network Graph"
    +url: "https://discourse.igniterealtime.org/t/creating-the-xmpp-network-graph/93521"
    +body: """
      Sorry if this isn’t the right venue for that, I thought it’d be in the tone of “self-hosting” and “federation” :)\n
      \n
      tl;dr: some XMPP servers started to deploy a mod to report back about how they federate with the rest of the network, and now there is a pretty graph to show for it at [xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html](https://xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html)
      """
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        +body: """
          They both qualify as “open, federated messaging protocols”, with XMPP being the oldest (about 25 years old) and an internet standard (IETF) but at this point we can consider Matrix to be quite old, too (10 years old). On the paper they are quite interchangeable, they both focus on bridging with established protocols, etc.\n
          \n
          Where things differ, though, is that Matrix is practically a single vendor implementation: the same organization (Element/New Vector/ however it’s called these days) develops both the reference client and the reference server. Which incidentally is super complex, not well documented (the code is the documentation), and practically not compatible with the other (semi-official) implementations. This is a red herring because it also happens that this organization was built on venture capital money with no financial stability in sight. XMPP is a much more diverse and accessible ecosystem: there are multiple independent teams and corporations implementing servers and clients, the protocol itself is very stable, versatile and extensible. This is how you can find XMPP today running the backbone of the modern internet, dispatching notifications to all Android devices, being the signaling system behind millions of IoT devices, providing messaging to billion of users (WhatsApp is, by the way, based on XMPP)\n
          \n
          Another significant difference is that, despite 10 years of existence and millions invested into it, Matrix still has not reached stability (and probably never will): the organization recently announced Matrix 2 as the (yet another) definitive answer to the protocol’s shortcomings, without changing anything to what makes the protocol so painful to work with, and the requirements (compute, memory, bandwidth) to run Matrix at even a small scale are still orders of magnitude higher than XMPP. This discouraged many organizations (even serious ones, like Mozilla, KDE, …) from running Matrix themselves and further contributes to the de-facto centralization and single point of control federated protocols are meant to prevent.
          """
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        I’ve used Matrix for months and agree with most points. I would like to try XMPP but it is clear that it does not have the best onboarding experience.\n
        \n
        The *problem* I’ve observed with XMPP as an outsider is the lack of a standard. Each server or client has its own supported features and I’m not sure which one to choose.\n
        \n
        Which client would you recommend?
        """
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    +body: """
      > The *problem* I’ve observed with XMPP as an outsider is the lack of a standard. Each server or client has its own supported features and I’m not sure which one to choose.\n
      \n
      That’s a valid concern, but I wouldn’t call it a problem. There are practically 2 types of clients/servers: the ones which are maintained, and which work absolutely fine and well together, and the rest, the unmaintained/abandoned part of the ecosystem.\n
      \n
      And with the protocol being so stable and backwards/forwards compatible in large parts, those unmaintained clients will just work, just not with the latest and greatest features (XMPP has the machinery to let clients and servers advertise about their supported features so the experience is at least cohesive).\n
      \n
      > Which client would you recommend?\n
      \n
      Depends on which platform you are on and the type of usage. You should be able to pick one as advertised on [joinjabber.org](https://joinjabber.org) , that should keep you away from the fringe/unmaintained stuff. Personally I use gajim and monocles.
      """
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  +body: "Thank you for the suggestions. I just created an account on jabber.hot-chilli.net and downloaded Gajim. It looks really cool!"
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4248
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1970 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
      +name: "selfhosted@lemmy.world"
      +title: "selfhosted"
      +description: """
        A place to share alternatives to popular online services that can be self-hosted without giving up privacy or locking you into a service you don’t control.\n
        \n
        Rules:\n
        \n
        - Be civil: we’re here to support and learn from one another. Insults won’t be tolerated. Flame wars are frowned upon.\n
        - No spam posting.\n
        - Don’t duplicate the full text of your blog or github here. Just post the link for folks to click.\n
        - Submission headline should match the article title (don’t cherry-pick information from the title to fit your agenda).\n
        - No trolling.\n
        \n
        Resources:\n
        \n
        - [awesome-selfhosted software](https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted)\n
        - [awesome-sysadmin](https://github.com/awesome-foss/awesome-sysadmin) resources\n
        - [Self-Hosted Podcast from Jupiter Broadcasting](https://selfhosted.show)\n
        \n
        &gt; Any issues on the community? Report it using the report flag.\n
        \n
        &gt; Questions? DM the mods!
        """
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#1943 …}
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    +title: "Creating the XMPP Network Graph"
    +url: "https://discourse.igniterealtime.org/t/creating-the-xmpp-network-graph/93521"
    +body: """
      Sorry if this isn’t the right venue for that, I thought it’d be in the tone of “self-hosting” and “federation” :)\n
      \n
      tl;dr: some XMPP servers started to deploy a mod to report back about how they federate with the rest of the network, and now there is a pretty graph to show for it at [xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html](https://xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html)
      """
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          +body: "I’ve never used XMPP. Can someone compare it with Matrix?"
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        +body: """
          They both qualify as “open, federated messaging protocols”, with XMPP being the oldest (about 25 years old) and an internet standard (IETF) but at this point we can consider Matrix to be quite old, too (10 years old). On the paper they are quite interchangeable, they both focus on bridging with established protocols, etc.\n
          \n
          Where things differ, though, is that Matrix is practically a single vendor implementation: the same organization (Element/New Vector/ however it’s called these days) develops both the reference client and the reference server. Which incidentally is super complex, not well documented (the code is the documentation), and practically not compatible with the other (semi-official) implementations. This is a red herring because it also happens that this organization was built on venture capital money with no financial stability in sight. XMPP is a much more diverse and accessible ecosystem: there are multiple independent teams and corporations implementing servers and clients, the protocol itself is very stable, versatile and extensible. This is how you can find XMPP today running the backbone of the modern internet, dispatching notifications to all Android devices, being the signaling system behind millions of IoT devices, providing messaging to billion of users (WhatsApp is, by the way, based on XMPP)\n
          \n
          Another significant difference is that, despite 10 years of existence and millions invested into it, Matrix still has not reached stability (and probably never will): the organization recently announced Matrix 2 as the (yet another) definitive answer to the protocol’s shortcomings, without changing anything to what makes the protocol so painful to work with, and the requirements (compute, memory, bandwidth) to run Matrix at even a small scale are still orders of magnitude higher than XMPP. This discouraged many organizations (even serious ones, like Mozilla, KDE, …) from running Matrix themselves and further contributes to the de-facto centralization and single point of control federated protocols are meant to prevent.
          """
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      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4029}
      +body: """
        I’ve used Matrix for months and agree with most points. I would like to try XMPP but it is clear that it does not have the best onboarding experience.\n
        \n
        The *problem* I’ve observed with XMPP as an outsider is the lack of a standard. Each server or client has its own supported features and I’m not sure which one to choose.\n
        \n
        Which client would you recommend?
        """
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    +body: """
      > The *problem* I’ve observed with XMPP as an outsider is the lack of a standard. Each server or client has its own supported features and I’m not sure which one to choose.\n
      \n
      That’s a valid concern, but I wouldn’t call it a problem. There are practically 2 types of clients/servers: the ones which are maintained, and which work absolutely fine and well together, and the rest, the unmaintained/abandoned part of the ecosystem.\n
      \n
      And with the protocol being so stable and backwards/forwards compatible in large parts, those unmaintained clients will just work, just not with the latest and greatest features (XMPP has the machinery to let clients and servers advertise about their supported features so the experience is at least cohesive).\n
      \n
      > Which client would you recommend?\n
      \n
      Depends on which platform you are on and the type of usage. You should be able to pick one as advertised on [joinjabber.org](https://joinjabber.org) , that should keep you away from the fringe/unmaintained stuff. Personally I use gajim and monocles.
      """
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  +body: "Thank you for the suggestions. I just created an account on jabber.hot-chilli.net and downloaded Gajim. It looks really cool!"
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4248
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1970 …}
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      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
      +name: "selfhosted@lemmy.world"
      +title: "selfhosted"
      +description: """
        A place to share alternatives to popular online services that can be self-hosted without giving up privacy or locking you into a service you don’t control.\n
        \n
        Rules:\n
        \n
        - Be civil: we’re here to support and learn from one another. Insults won’t be tolerated. Flame wars are frowned upon.\n
        - No spam posting.\n
        - Don’t duplicate the full text of your blog or github here. Just post the link for folks to click.\n
        - Submission headline should match the article title (don’t cherry-pick information from the title to fit your agenda).\n
        - No trolling.\n
        \n
        Resources:\n
        \n
        - [awesome-selfhosted software](https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted)\n
        - [awesome-sysadmin](https://github.com/awesome-foss/awesome-sysadmin) resources\n
        - [Self-Hosted Podcast from Jupiter Broadcasting](https://selfhosted.show)\n
        \n
        &gt; Any issues on the community? Report it using the report flag.\n
        \n
        &gt; Questions? DM the mods!
        """
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    +url: "https://discourse.igniterealtime.org/t/creating-the-xmpp-network-graph/93521"
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      Sorry if this isn’t the right venue for that, I thought it’d be in the tone of “self-hosting” and “federation” :)\n
      \n
      tl;dr: some XMPP servers started to deploy a mod to report back about how they federate with the rest of the network, and now there is a pretty graph to show for it at [xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html](https://xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html)
      """
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          +body: "I’ve never used XMPP. Can someone compare it with Matrix?"
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        +body: """
          They both qualify as “open, federated messaging protocols”, with XMPP being the oldest (about 25 years old) and an internet standard (IETF) but at this point we can consider Matrix to be quite old, too (10 years old). On the paper they are quite interchangeable, they both focus on bridging with established protocols, etc.\n
          \n
          Where things differ, though, is that Matrix is practically a single vendor implementation: the same organization (Element/New Vector/ however it’s called these days) develops both the reference client and the reference server. Which incidentally is super complex, not well documented (the code is the documentation), and practically not compatible with the other (semi-official) implementations. This is a red herring because it also happens that this organization was built on venture capital money with no financial stability in sight. XMPP is a much more diverse and accessible ecosystem: there are multiple independent teams and corporations implementing servers and clients, the protocol itself is very stable, versatile and extensible. This is how you can find XMPP today running the backbone of the modern internet, dispatching notifications to all Android devices, being the signaling system behind millions of IoT devices, providing messaging to billion of users (WhatsApp is, by the way, based on XMPP)\n
          \n
          Another significant difference is that, despite 10 years of existence and millions invested into it, Matrix still has not reached stability (and probably never will): the organization recently announced Matrix 2 as the (yet another) definitive answer to the protocol’s shortcomings, without changing anything to what makes the protocol so painful to work with, and the requirements (compute, memory, bandwidth) to run Matrix at even a small scale are still orders of magnitude higher than XMPP. This discouraged many organizations (even serious ones, like Mozilla, KDE, …) from running Matrix themselves and further contributes to the de-facto centralization and single point of control federated protocols are meant to prevent.
          """
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      +body: """
        I’ve used Matrix for months and agree with most points. I would like to try XMPP but it is clear that it does not have the best onboarding experience.\n
        \n
        The *problem* I’ve observed with XMPP as an outsider is the lack of a standard. Each server or client has its own supported features and I’m not sure which one to choose.\n
        \n
        Which client would you recommend?
        """
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    +body: """
      > The *problem* I’ve observed with XMPP as an outsider is the lack of a standard. Each server or client has its own supported features and I’m not sure which one to choose.\n
      \n
      That’s a valid concern, but I wouldn’t call it a problem. There are practically 2 types of clients/servers: the ones which are maintained, and which work absolutely fine and well together, and the rest, the unmaintained/abandoned part of the ecosystem.\n
      \n
      And with the protocol being so stable and backwards/forwards compatible in large parts, those unmaintained clients will just work, just not with the latest and greatest features (XMPP has the machinery to let clients and servers advertise about their supported features so the experience is at least cohesive).\n
      \n
      > Which client would you recommend?\n
      \n
      Depends on which platform you are on and the type of usage. You should be able to pick one as advertised on [joinjabber.org](https://joinjabber.org) , that should keep you away from the fringe/unmaintained stuff. Personally I use gajim and monocles.
      """
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  }
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4029}
  +body: "Thank you for the suggestions. I just created an account on jabber.hot-chilli.net and downloaded Gajim. It looks really cool!"
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
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    "@iso@lemy.lol"
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  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4249 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4251 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4253 …}
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
null
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4065
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  +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2419
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1970 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
      +name: "selfhosted@lemmy.world"
      +title: "selfhosted"
      +description: """
        A place to share alternatives to popular online services that can be self-hosted without giving up privacy or locking you into a service you don’t control.\n
        \n
        Rules:\n
        \n
        - Be civil: we’re here to support and learn from one another. Insults won’t be tolerated. Flame wars are frowned upon.\n
        - No spam posting.\n
        - Don’t duplicate the full text of your blog or github here. Just post the link for folks to click.\n
        - Submission headline should match the article title (don’t cherry-pick information from the title to fit your agenda).\n
        - No trolling.\n
        \n
        Resources:\n
        \n
        - [awesome-selfhosted software](https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted)\n
        - [awesome-sysadmin](https://github.com/awesome-foss/awesome-sysadmin) resources\n
        - [Self-Hosted Podcast from Jupiter Broadcasting](https://selfhosted.show)\n
        \n
        &gt; Any issues on the community? Report it using the report flag.\n
        \n
        &gt; Questions? DM the mods!
        """
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#1943 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1912 …}
    +slug: "Creating-the-XMPP-Network-Graph"
    +title: "Creating the XMPP Network Graph"
    +url: "https://discourse.igniterealtime.org/t/creating-the-xmpp-network-graph/93521"
    +body: """
      Sorry if this isn’t the right venue for that, I thought it’d be in the tone of “self-hosting” and “federation” :)\n
      \n
      tl;dr: some XMPP servers started to deploy a mod to report back about how they federate with the rest of the network, and now there is a pretty graph to show for it at [xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html](https://xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html)
      """
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  }
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265}
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
  +body: "I think this is pretty cool."
  +lang: "en"
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4065
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  +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2419
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1970 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
      +name: "selfhosted@lemmy.world"
      +title: "selfhosted"
      +description: """
        A place to share alternatives to popular online services that can be self-hosted without giving up privacy or locking you into a service you don’t control.\n
        \n
        Rules:\n
        \n
        - Be civil: we’re here to support and learn from one another. Insults won’t be tolerated. Flame wars are frowned upon.\n
        - No spam posting.\n
        - Don’t duplicate the full text of your blog or github here. Just post the link for folks to click.\n
        - Submission headline should match the article title (don’t cherry-pick information from the title to fit your agenda).\n
        - No trolling.\n
        \n
        Resources:\n
        \n
        - [awesome-selfhosted software](https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted)\n
        - [awesome-sysadmin](https://github.com/awesome-foss/awesome-sysadmin) resources\n
        - [Self-Hosted Podcast from Jupiter Broadcasting](https://selfhosted.show)\n
        \n
        &gt; Any issues on the community? Report it using the report flag.\n
        \n
        &gt; Questions? DM the mods!
        """
      +rules: null
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      +entryCommentCount: 3916
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        date: 2024-10-22 09:38:55.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +tags: null
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      +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
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      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#180 …}
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      +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#71 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1346 …}
      +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1823 …}
      -id: 120
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      +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/selfhosted/followers"
      +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
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      +apPreferredUsername: "selfhosted"
      +apDiscoverable: true
      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
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      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1703473826 {#269
        date: 2023-12-25 04:10:26.0 +01:00
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      +apDeletedAt: null
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      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1703473826 {#271
        date: 2023-12-25 04:10:26.0 +01:00
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    }
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#1943 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1912 …}
    +slug: "Creating-the-XMPP-Network-Graph"
    +title: "Creating the XMPP Network Graph"
    +url: "https://discourse.igniterealtime.org/t/creating-the-xmpp-network-graph/93521"
    +body: """
      Sorry if this isn’t the right venue for that, I thought it’d be in the tone of “self-hosting” and “federation” :)\n
      \n
      tl;dr: some XMPP servers started to deploy a mod to report back about how they federate with the rest of the network, and now there is a pretty graph to show for it at [xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html](https://xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html)
      """
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    +ip: null
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  }
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265}
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
  +body: "I think this is pretty cool."
  +lang: "en"
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  }
  +ip: null
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4065
  +user: App\Entity\User {#4049 …}
  +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2419
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1970 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
      +name: "selfhosted@lemmy.world"
      +title: "selfhosted"
      +description: """
        A place to share alternatives to popular online services that can be self-hosted without giving up privacy or locking you into a service you don’t control.\n
        \n
        Rules:\n
        \n
        - Be civil: we’re here to support and learn from one another. Insults won’t be tolerated. Flame wars are frowned upon.\n
        - No spam posting.\n
        - Don’t duplicate the full text of your blog or github here. Just post the link for folks to click.\n
        - Submission headline should match the article title (don’t cherry-pick information from the title to fit your agenda).\n
        - No trolling.\n
        \n
        Resources:\n
        \n
        - [awesome-selfhosted software](https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted)\n
        - [awesome-sysadmin](https://github.com/awesome-foss/awesome-sysadmin) resources\n
        - [Self-Hosted Podcast from Jupiter Broadcasting](https://selfhosted.show)\n
        \n
        &gt; Any issues on the community? Report it using the report flag.\n
        \n
        &gt; Questions? DM the mods!
        """
      +rules: null
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      +entryCommentCount: 3916
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        date: 2024-10-22 09:38:55.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
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      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#103 …}
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        date: 2023-12-25 04:10:26.0 +01:00
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#1943 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1912 …}
    +slug: "Creating-the-XMPP-Network-Graph"
    +title: "Creating the XMPP Network Graph"
    +url: "https://discourse.igniterealtime.org/t/creating-the-xmpp-network-graph/93521"
    +body: """
      Sorry if this isn’t the right venue for that, I thought it’d be in the tone of “self-hosting” and “federation” :)\n
      \n
      tl;dr: some XMPP servers started to deploy a mod to report back about how they federate with the rest of the network, and now there is a pretty graph to show for it at [xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html](https://xmppnetwork.goodbytes.im/webgl.html)
      """
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  }
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265}
  +image: null
  +parent: null
  +root: null
  +body: "I think this is pretty cool."
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}
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
App\Entity\Magazine {#265
  +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
  +name: "selfhosted@lemmy.world"
  +title: "selfhosted"
  +description: """
    A place to share alternatives to popular online services that can be self-hosted without giving up privacy or locking you into a service you don’t control.\n
    \n
    Rules:\n
    \n
    - Be civil: we’re here to support and learn from one another. Insults won’t be tolerated. Flame wars are frowned upon.\n
    - No spam posting.\n
    - Don’t duplicate the full text of your blog or github here. Just post the link for folks to click.\n
    - Submission headline should match the article title (don’t cherry-pick information from the title to fit your agenda).\n
    - No trolling.\n
    \n
    Resources:\n
    \n
    - [awesome-selfhosted software](https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted)\n
    - [awesome-sysadmin](https://github.com/awesome-foss/awesome-sysadmin) resources\n
    - [Self-Hosted Podcast from Jupiter Broadcasting](https://selfhosted.show)\n
    \n
    &gt; Any issues on the community? Report it using the report flag.\n
    \n
    &gt; Questions? DM the mods!
    """
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"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"

Symfony Profiler

GET https://kbin.spritesserver.nl/index.php/m/selfhosted@lemmy.world/t/32872/Creating-the-XMPP-Network-Graph/active

Configuration Settings

Theme

Page Width

Security

Token

Firewall

Configuration

Listeners

Authenticators

Access Decision

Access decision log