GET https://kbin.spritesserver.nl/index.php/u/@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca/newest/2023-11-11::2023-11-11

Response
200 OK
IP
216.73.216.90
Profiled on
Token
a5d1cb

Security

Token

There is no security token.

Firewall

main Name
Security enabled
Stateless

Configuration

Key Value
provider security.user.provider.concrete.app_user_provider
context main
entry_point App\Security\KbinAuthenticator
user_checker App\Security\UserChecker
access_denied_handler (none)
access_denied_url (none)
authenticators 
[
  "two_factor"
  "remember_me"
  "App\Security\KbinAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\FacebookAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\GoogleAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\GithubAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\KeycloakAuthenticator"
]

Listeners

Listener Duration Response 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ChannelListener {#723
  -map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …}
  -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …}
  -httpPort: 80
  -httpsPort: 443
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ContextListener {#706
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\TokenStorage {#1017 …}
  -sessionKey: "_security_main"
  -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …}
  -userProviders: Symfony\Component\DependencyInjection\Argument\RewindableGenerator {#705 …}
  -dispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …}
  -registered: false
  -trustResolver: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authentication\AuthenticationTrustResolver {#780 …}
  -sessionTrackerEnabler: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage::enableUsageTracking(): void {#703 …}
}
 12.78 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AuthenticatorManagerListener {#584
  -authenticatorManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Authentication\AuthenticatorManager {#595 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Http\Firewall\TwoFactorAccessListener {#582
  -twoFactorFirewallConfig: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\TwoFactor\TwoFactorFirewallConfig {#842 …}
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -twoFactorAccessDecider: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\TwoFactorAccessDecider {#581 …}
}
 0.29 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AccessListener {#579
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -accessDecisionManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\TraceableAccessDecisionManager {#937 …}
  -map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\LogoutListener {#786
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -options: [
    "csrf_parameter" => "_csrf_token"
    "csrf_token_id" => "logout"
    "logout_path" => "app_logout"
  ]
  -httpUtils: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\HttpUtils {#841 …}
  -csrfTokenManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Csrf\CsrfTokenManager {#1015 …}
  -eventDispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none)

Authenticators

No authenticators have been recorded. Check previous profiles on your authentication endpoint.

Access Decision

affirmative Strategy
# Voter class
1 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\AuthenticatedVoter"
2 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
3 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
4 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\ExpressionVoter"
5 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
6 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
7 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
8 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
9 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
10 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
11 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
12 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
13 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
14 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"

Access decision log

# Result Attributes Object
1 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
2 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1979 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3020 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3048 …}
  +slug: "Yes-also-Teslas"
  +title: "Yes, also Teslas"
  +url: "https://media.mastodon.scot/mastodon-scot-public/media_attachments/files/111/386/122/832/701/352/original/adf530561fcd6b97.jpg"
  +body: null
  +type: "image"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: true
  +commentCount: 342
  +favouriteCount: 1184
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1700074689 {#2016
    date: 2023-11-15 19:58:09.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3047 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3045 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3042 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3076 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3072 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3089 …}
  +children: [
    11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
      +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 12
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1699667552 {#1435
        date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
        "@HonoraryMancunian@lemmy.world"
        "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
        "@fiah@discuss.tchncs.de"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1671 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1667 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1670 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1678 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1551 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1586 …}
      -id: 109758
      -bodyTs: "'car':14 'chang':17 'dead':19 'doesn':15 'go':3 'hit':24 'mind':11 'say':5 'without':4"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4754096"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699667552 {#1438
        date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 109758
    }
    10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1550 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1561 …}
      +body: """
        But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
        \n
        If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 2
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1699673663 {#1579
        date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
        "@thantik@lemmy.world"
        "@cestvrai@lemm.ee"
        "@Buffaloaf@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1525 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1566 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1562 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1554 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1556 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1555 …}
      -id: 109960
      -bodyTs: "'also':9 'amount':31 'anyth':23 'bring':38 'bunch':12 'car':14 'cargo':3,36,40 'caus':34 'defens':47 'drive':10 'ev':27,49 'exist':5 'heavi':26 'increas':29 'make':42 'orthogon':21 'pollut':33 're':8 'sens':44 'ship':4,37,41 'switch':24 'total':20 'whether':6"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4756392"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699673663 {#1559
        date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 109960
    }
    9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
      +body: """
        But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
        \n
        **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
        \n
        [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
        \n
        [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
        \n
        > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
        \n
        According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
        \n
        > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
        \n
        **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 20
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1699718733 {#1620
        date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
        "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1705 …}
      -id: 111756
      -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':47 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':121 '/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':64 '20':144 '50':152 'accord':114,134,145 'adopt':109 'air':13 'alreadi':124 'also':156,182 'america':106 'articl':26,41,61,118 'atlant':60 'away':190 'begin':107 'better':170 'bigger':10 'brake':18 'car':111,133,175,192 'clear':167 'danger':86 'deepen':84 'depend':193 'discuss':65 'dozen':24 'dust':5,19 'edit':20,164 'electr':110,132 'en':112 'ev':29,70,72,90,168,179,181 'everi':174 'exhaust':58 'forb':117 'generat':80 'get':103 'goodyear':147 'guardian':44 'heavier':77 'ice':37,172 'increas':3,68,138 'liter':23 'mass':113 'massiv':2 'michelin':136 'model':73 'much':9,50 'need':187 'new':71 'one':98 'particul':34,53,67,82 'pois':101 'pollut':16,35,54,95 'problem':96,126 'produc':31 'quicker':79 'research':159 'seen':163 'sourc':11 'still':186 'suck':183 'switch':130 'tailpip':57 'tend':74 'tire':4,33,66,94,122,139 'tire-pollut':93 'transit':189 'tyre':52 'valid':155 've':162 'water':15 'wear':140 'word':89 'wors':51,104 'www.forbes.com':120 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':119 'www.theatlantic.com':63 'www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':62 'www.theguardian.com':46 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':45"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767533"
      +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699923103 {#1613
        date: 2023-11-14 01:51:43.0 +01:00
      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699718733 {#1604
        date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 111756
    }
    8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1629 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
      +body: """
        Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
        \n
        > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
        \n
        **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 11
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1699719173 {#1616
        date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
        "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
        "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1628 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1599 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1625 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1617 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1725 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1722 …}
      -id: 111797
      -bodyTs: "'/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':20 '1':35 '850':36 'agre':87 'bad':99 'batteri':52 'better':91 'brake':8 'carbuzz.com':19 'carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':18 'chang':94 'climat':93 'comprehens':22 'drive':29 'dust':9 'edit':71 'effect':84 'electr':56 'emiss':17,31,43 'environ':102 'equival':41 'ev':89,96 'everyday':28 'exhaust':42 'expert':85 'fit':54 'found':25 'greater':38 'greenhous':83 'heavier':51 'increas':59 'made':47 'mass':61 'might':12 'much':5 'overwhelm':86 'pack':53 'particul':30,79 'place':65 'pollut':11 'say':76 'still':98 'strain':67 'studi':23 'tailpip':16 'time':37 'tire':10,33,70,78 'turn':64 'vehicl':57,60 'wors':6,14,48"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767705"
      +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699952881 {#1611
        date: 2023-11-14 10:08:01.0 +01:00
      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719173 {#1598
        date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 111797
    }
    7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
      +body: """
        It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
        \n
        [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
        \n
        > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
        \n
        I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 16
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1699719642 {#1726
        date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
        "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
        "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1737 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1732 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1735 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1729 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1719 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1714 …}
      -id: 111836
      -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':18 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':25 '20':48 '50':56 'accord':38,49 'alreadi':28 'also':60 'anoth':19 'anyth':72 'articl':20,87 'bad':90 'big':80 'biggest':103 'brake':75 'car':37 'dozen':85 'dust':76 'electr':36 'even':3,11,97 'forb':22 'goodyear':51 'increas':42 'liter':84 'm':69,95 'mention':98 'michelin':40 'microplast':99 'near':78 'pollut':9,15,92 'problem':30,83 'research':63 'said':7 'see':71 'seen':67 'sourc':104 'switch':34 'tailpip':14 'tire':8,26,43,91,100 'valid':59 've':66 'wear':44 'wors':4,12 'www.forbes.com':24 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':23 'www.theguardian.com':17 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':16"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767893"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719642 {#1728
        date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 111836
    }
    6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1741 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
      +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 11
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1699726562 {#1720
        date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
        "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
        "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        "@corey389@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
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      -id: 112328
      -bodyTs: "'bad':38 'better':23 'biggest':46 'capita':9 'car':14,41 'caus':33 'compar':18 'damag':36 'distanc':6 'environment':35 'ev':2,50 'ice':20 'killer':47 'land':39 'major':34 'make':52 'may':51 'mode':15 'non':13 'non-car':12 'one':25,43 'other':30 'particular':26 'per':5,8 'problem':54 'still':32 'transport':17 'use':40 'way':27 'worldwid':48 'wors':4,28,55"
      +ranking: 0
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      +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770565"
      +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699850987 {#1716
        date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726562 {#1717
        date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 112328
    }
    5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2457 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
      +body: """
        I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
        \n
        *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
        \n
        edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
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        date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
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        "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
        "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
        "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2454 …}
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      -id: 112348
      -bodyTs: "'air':95 'also':87 'aren':23 'argu':20 'argument':84 'away':72 'bad':46 'better':25,112 'brake':10 'car':39,74 'chang':59 'climat':28,36,58 'contribut':100 'contributor':56 'could':117 'doubt':108 'dust':6,11 'edit':85 'effect':104 'emiss':44 'encourag':77 'ev':22 'greenhous':103 'harm':37 'haven':88 'ice':30,78,114 'idea':65 'inan':83 'land':47 'liter':16 'lot':33,51 'major':55 'matter':97 'move':71 'much':94 'one':18 'park':50 'particul':96 'pavement':49 'push':69 'seen':90 'signific':120 'sprawl':53 'still':111,118 'studi':91 'tailpip':43 'talk':3 'tire':5,99 'typo':15 'understand':63 'urban':52 'use':48,79 'wors':8"
      +ranking: 0
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      +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699851345 {#2460
        date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726842 {#2453
        date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 112348
    }
    4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2364 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
      +body: """
        You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
        \n
        Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
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        date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
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        "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
        "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
        "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2372 …}
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      -bodyTs: "'actual':70 'air':21,30 'also':27,86 'away':91 'bad':67 'car':81,93 'care':54 'confus':7 'consequ':32 'drink':40 'effect':68 'environ':43,57 'etc':46 'ev':62,73,83 'everi':79 'everyon':52 'favor':60 'food':38 'ice':64 'increas':71 'leak':35 'link':16 'matter':51 'mean':9 'microplast':34 'need':76,87 'non':29 'non-air':28 'ocean':45 'pollut':22,31 're':2 'remain':80 'research':14 'right':3 'say':11 'small':50 'societi':90 'suppli':39 'tire':24 'transit':78,89 'use':74 'water':41 'wrote':5"
      +ranking: 0
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        date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 112408
    }
    3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
      +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 6
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1699727603 {#1909
        date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
      }
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        "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
        "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
        "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
        "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
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      -id: 112413
      -bodyTs: "'argument':5 'declar':9"
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727603 {#1708
        date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 112413
    }
    2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
      +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 5
      +score: 0
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        date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
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        "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
        "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
        "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
        "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
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      -id: 112447
      -bodyTs: "'actual':16 'alway':28 'ask':14 'especi':22 'expect':8 'hot':23 'idea':21 'like':25 'm':2 'petrol':26 'reason':17 'superior':30 'support':19 'sure':4 'take':24 'unreason':12"
      +ranking: 0
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      +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4771134"
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699728041 {#1384
        date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 112447
    }
    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
      +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
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      +score: 0
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        date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
      }
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        "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
        "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
        "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2022 …}
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      -id: 113000
      -bodyTs: "'300':39 'absurd':25 'also':42 'batteri':27 'benefit':55 'big':10 'car':13 'case':31 'commut':36 'consum':41 'daili':35 'demand':23 'didn':21 'effici':50 'even':32 'explod':17 'heavier':3 'high':26 'instead':48 'mile':40 'much':2 'negat':51 'peopl':20 'power':47 'problem':11 'rang':28 'seem':43 'size':14 'though':33 'transit':58 'unnecessari':46 'want':45 'weren':15 'wouldn':5 'yes':1"
      +ranking: 0
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      +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4774086"
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699736149 {#2032
        date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 113000
    }
    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
      +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 2
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        date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
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        "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
        "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
        "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        "@floofloof@lemmy.ca"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2144 …}
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      -id: 113349
      -bodyTs: "'bigger':34 'car':16 'consum':25 'effici':28 'engin':32 'europ':6 'extra':27 'increas':19 'keep':18 'might':2 'optimist':11 'power':31 'rang':35 'seem':21 'size':17 'us':14 'want':23"
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        date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 113349
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  ]
  -id: 11788
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    date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
3 DENIED edit 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1979 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3020 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3048 …}
  +slug: "Yes-also-Teslas"
  +title: "Yes, also Teslas"
  +url: "https://media.mastodon.scot/mastodon-scot-public/media_attachments/files/111/386/122/832/701/352/original/adf530561fcd6b97.jpg"
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  +lastActive: DateTime @1700074689 {#2016
    date: 2023-11-15 19:58:09.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
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  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3047 …}
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  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3076 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3072 …}
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  +children: [
    11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
      +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
      +lang: "en"
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        date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
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        "@HonoraryMancunian@lemmy.world"
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        "@fiah@discuss.tchncs.de"
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        date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 109758
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    10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1550 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1561 …}
      +body: """
        But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
        \n
        If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
        """
      +lang: "en"
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        date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
      }
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        "@thantik@lemmy.world"
        "@cestvrai@lemm.ee"
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        date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 109960
    }
    9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
      +body: """
        But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
        \n
        **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
        \n
        [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
        \n
        [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
        \n
        > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
        \n
        According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
        \n
        > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
        \n
        **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 20
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        date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
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      +mentions: [
        "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
        "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1705 …}
      -id: 111756
      -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':47 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':121 '/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':64 '20':144 '50':152 'accord':114,134,145 'adopt':109 'air':13 'alreadi':124 'also':156,182 'america':106 'articl':26,41,61,118 'atlant':60 'away':190 'begin':107 'better':170 'bigger':10 'brake':18 'car':111,133,175,192 'clear':167 'danger':86 'deepen':84 'depend':193 'discuss':65 'dozen':24 'dust':5,19 'edit':20,164 'electr':110,132 'en':112 'ev':29,70,72,90,168,179,181 'everi':174 'exhaust':58 'forb':117 'generat':80 'get':103 'goodyear':147 'guardian':44 'heavier':77 'ice':37,172 'increas':3,68,138 'liter':23 'mass':113 'massiv':2 'michelin':136 'model':73 'much':9,50 'need':187 'new':71 'one':98 'particul':34,53,67,82 'pois':101 'pollut':16,35,54,95 'problem':96,126 'produc':31 'quicker':79 'research':159 'seen':163 'sourc':11 'still':186 'suck':183 'switch':130 'tailpip':57 'tend':74 'tire':4,33,66,94,122,139 'tire-pollut':93 'transit':189 'tyre':52 'valid':155 've':162 'water':15 'wear':140 'word':89 'wors':51,104 'www.forbes.com':120 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':119 'www.theatlantic.com':63 'www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':62 'www.theguardian.com':46 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':45"
      +ranking: 0
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      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767533"
      +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699923103 {#1613
        date: 2023-11-14 01:51:43.0 +01:00
      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699718733 {#1604
        date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 111756
    }
    8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1629 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
      +body: """
        Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
        \n
        > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
        \n
        **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 11
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1699719173 {#1616
        date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
        "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
        "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1628 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1599 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1625 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1617 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1725 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1722 …}
      -id: 111797
      -bodyTs: "'/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':20 '1':35 '850':36 'agre':87 'bad':99 'batteri':52 'better':91 'brake':8 'carbuzz.com':19 'carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':18 'chang':94 'climat':93 'comprehens':22 'drive':29 'dust':9 'edit':71 'effect':84 'electr':56 'emiss':17,31,43 'environ':102 'equival':41 'ev':89,96 'everyday':28 'exhaust':42 'expert':85 'fit':54 'found':25 'greater':38 'greenhous':83 'heavier':51 'increas':59 'made':47 'mass':61 'might':12 'much':5 'overwhelm':86 'pack':53 'particul':30,79 'place':65 'pollut':11 'say':76 'still':98 'strain':67 'studi':23 'tailpip':16 'time':37 'tire':10,33,70,78 'turn':64 'vehicl':57,60 'wors':6,14,48"
      +ranking: 0
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      +downVotes: 0
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      +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767705"
      +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699952881 {#1611
        date: 2023-11-14 10:08:01.0 +01:00
      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719173 {#1598
        date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 111797
    }
    7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
      +body: """
        It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
        \n
        [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
        \n
        > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
        \n
        I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 16
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1699719642 {#1726
        date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
        "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
        "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1737 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1732 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1735 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1729 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1719 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1714 …}
      -id: 111836
      -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':18 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':25 '20':48 '50':56 'accord':38,49 'alreadi':28 'also':60 'anoth':19 'anyth':72 'articl':20,87 'bad':90 'big':80 'biggest':103 'brake':75 'car':37 'dozen':85 'dust':76 'electr':36 'even':3,11,97 'forb':22 'goodyear':51 'increas':42 'liter':84 'm':69,95 'mention':98 'michelin':40 'microplast':99 'near':78 'pollut':9,15,92 'problem':30,83 'research':63 'said':7 'see':71 'seen':67 'sourc':104 'switch':34 'tailpip':14 'tire':8,26,43,91,100 'valid':59 've':66 'wear':44 'wors':4,12 'www.forbes.com':24 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':23 'www.theguardian.com':17 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':16"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767893"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719642 {#1728
        date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 111836
    }
    6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1741 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
      +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 11
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1699726562 {#1720
        date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
        "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
        "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        "@corey389@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
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      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2422 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2458 …}
      -id: 112328
      -bodyTs: "'bad':38 'better':23 'biggest':46 'capita':9 'car':14,41 'caus':33 'compar':18 'damag':36 'distanc':6 'environment':35 'ev':2,50 'ice':20 'killer':47 'land':39 'major':34 'make':52 'may':51 'mode':15 'non':13 'non-car':12 'one':25,43 'other':30 'particular':26 'per':5,8 'problem':54 'still':32 'transport':17 'use':40 'way':27 'worldwid':48 'wors':4,28,55"
      +ranking: 0
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      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770565"
      +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699850987 {#1716
        date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726562 {#1717
        date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 112328
    }
    5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2457 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
      +body: """
        I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
        \n
        *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
        \n
        edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 8
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1699726842 {#2456
        date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
        "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
        "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2454 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2459 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2470 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2467 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2371 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2370 …}
      -id: 112348
      -bodyTs: "'air':95 'also':87 'aren':23 'argu':20 'argument':84 'away':72 'bad':46 'better':25,112 'brake':10 'car':39,74 'chang':59 'climat':28,36,58 'contribut':100 'contributor':56 'could':117 'doubt':108 'dust':6,11 'edit':85 'effect':104 'emiss':44 'encourag':77 'ev':22 'greenhous':103 'harm':37 'haven':88 'ice':30,78,114 'idea':65 'inan':83 'land':47 'liter':16 'lot':33,51 'major':55 'matter':97 'move':71 'much':94 'one':18 'park':50 'particul':96 'pavement':49 'push':69 'seen':90 'signific':120 'sprawl':53 'still':111,118 'studi':91 'tailpip':43 'talk':3 'tire':5,99 'typo':15 'understand':63 'urban':52 'use':48,79 'wors':8"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770668"
      +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699851345 {#2460
        date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726842 {#2453
        date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 112348
    }
    4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2364 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
      +body: """
        You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
        \n
        Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 8
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1699727556 {#2360
        date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
        "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
        "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2372 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2386 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2385 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2378 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2381 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1910 …}
      -id: 112408
      -bodyTs: "'actual':70 'air':21,30 'also':27,86 'away':91 'bad':67 'car':81,93 'care':54 'confus':7 'consequ':32 'drink':40 'effect':68 'environ':43,57 'etc':46 'ev':62,73,83 'everi':79 'everyon':52 'favor':60 'food':38 'ice':64 'increas':71 'leak':35 'link':16 'matter':51 'mean':9 'microplast':34 'need':76,87 'non':29 'non-air':28 'ocean':45 'pollut':22,31 're':2 'remain':80 'research':14 'right':3 'say':11 'small':50 'societi':90 'suppli':39 'tire':24 'transit':78,89 'use':74 'water':41 'wrote':5"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770950"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727556 {#2359
        date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 112408
    }
    3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
      +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 6
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1699727603 {#1909
        date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
        "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
        "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
        "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2387 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2394 …}
      -id: 112413
      -bodyTs: "'argument':5 'declar':9"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770963"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727603 {#1708
        date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 112413
    }
    2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
      +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 5
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1699728041 {#2393
        date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
        "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
        "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
        "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1385 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1401 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1363 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1362 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2019 …}
      -id: 112447
      -bodyTs: "'actual':16 'alway':28 'ask':14 'especi':22 'expect':8 'hot':23 'idea':21 'like':25 'm':2 'petrol':26 'reason':17 'superior':30 'support':19 'sure':4 'take':24 'unreason':12"
      +ranking: 0
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      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4771134"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699728041 {#1384
        date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 112447
    }
    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
      +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 8
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1699736149 {#2030
        date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
        "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
        "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2022 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2025 …}
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      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2028 …}
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      -id: 113000
      -bodyTs: "'300':39 'absurd':25 'also':42 'batteri':27 'benefit':55 'big':10 'car':13 'case':31 'commut':36 'consum':41 'daili':35 'demand':23 'didn':21 'effici':50 'even':32 'explod':17 'heavier':3 'high':26 'instead':48 'mile':40 'much':2 'negat':51 'peopl':20 'power':47 'problem':11 'rang':28 'seem':43 'size':14 'though':33 'transit':58 'unnecessari':46 'want':45 'weren':15 'wouldn':5 'yes':1"
      +ranking: 0
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699736149 {#2032
        date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 113000
    }
    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
      +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
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        date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
      }
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      +mentions: [
        "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
        "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
        "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        "@floofloof@lemmy.ca"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2144 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2061 …}
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      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2076 …}
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      -id: 113349
      -bodyTs: "'bigger':34 'car':16 'consum':25 'effici':28 'engin':32 'europ':6 'extra':27 'increas':19 'keep':18 'might':2 'optimist':11 'power':31 'rang':35 'seem':21 'size':17 'us':14 'want':23"
      +ranking: 0
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        date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 113349
    }
  ]
  -id: 11788
  -titleTs: "'also':2 'tesla':3 'yes':1"
  -bodyTs: null
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    date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
  }
  +__isInitialized__: true
   …2
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
4 DENIED moderate 
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1979 …}
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3020 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3048 …}
  +slug: "Yes-also-Teslas"
  +title: "Yes, also Teslas"
  +url: "https://media.mastodon.scot/mastodon-scot-public/media_attachments/files/111/386/122/832/701/352/original/adf530561fcd6b97.jpg"
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    date: 2023-11-15 19:58:09.0 +01:00
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  +ip: null
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  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3047 …}
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  +children: [
    11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
      +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 12
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        "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
        "@HonoraryMancunian@lemmy.world"
        "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
        "@fiah@discuss.tchncs.de"
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      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1671 …}
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      -id: 109758
      -bodyTs: "'car':14 'chang':17 'dead':19 'doesn':15 'go':3 'hit':24 'mind':11 'say':5 'without':4"
      +ranking: 0
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        date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 109758
    }
    10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
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      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1550 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1561 …}
      +body: """
        But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
        \n
        If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 2
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        date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
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        "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
        "@thantik@lemmy.world"
        "@cestvrai@lemm.ee"
        "@Buffaloaf@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1525 …}
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      -id: 109960
      -bodyTs: "'also':9 'amount':31 'anyth':23 'bring':38 'bunch':12 'car':14 'cargo':3,36,40 'caus':34 'defens':47 'drive':10 'ev':27,49 'exist':5 'heavi':26 'increas':29 'make':42 'orthogon':21 'pollut':33 're':8 'sens':44 'ship':4,37,41 'switch':24 'total':20 'whether':6"
      +ranking: 0
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699673663 {#1559
        date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 109960
    }
    9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
      +body: """
        But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
        \n
        **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
        \n
        [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
        \n
        [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
        \n
        > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
        \n
        According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
        \n
        > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
        \n
        **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 20
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1699718733 {#1620
        date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
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      +mentions: [
        "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
        "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
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      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1705 …}
      -id: 111756
      -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':47 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':121 '/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':64 '20':144 '50':152 'accord':114,134,145 'adopt':109 'air':13 'alreadi':124 'also':156,182 'america':106 'articl':26,41,61,118 'atlant':60 'away':190 'begin':107 'better':170 'bigger':10 'brake':18 'car':111,133,175,192 'clear':167 'danger':86 'deepen':84 'depend':193 'discuss':65 'dozen':24 'dust':5,19 'edit':20,164 'electr':110,132 'en':112 'ev':29,70,72,90,168,179,181 'everi':174 'exhaust':58 'forb':117 'generat':80 'get':103 'goodyear':147 'guardian':44 'heavier':77 'ice':37,172 'increas':3,68,138 'liter':23 'mass':113 'massiv':2 'michelin':136 'model':73 'much':9,50 'need':187 'new':71 'one':98 'particul':34,53,67,82 'pois':101 'pollut':16,35,54,95 'problem':96,126 'produc':31 'quicker':79 'research':159 'seen':163 'sourc':11 'still':186 'suck':183 'switch':130 'tailpip':57 'tend':74 'tire':4,33,66,94,122,139 'tire-pollut':93 'transit':189 'tyre':52 'valid':155 've':162 'water':15 'wear':140 'word':89 'wors':51,104 'www.forbes.com':120 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':119 'www.theatlantic.com':63 'www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':62 'www.theguardian.com':46 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':45"
      +ranking: 0
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      +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767533"
      +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699923103 {#1613
        date: 2023-11-14 01:51:43.0 +01:00
      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699718733 {#1604
        date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 111756
    }
    8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1629 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
      +body: """
        Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
        \n
        > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
        \n
        **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
        """
      +lang: "en"
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        date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
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      +ip: null
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      +mentions: [
        "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
        "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
        "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1628 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1599 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1625 …}
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      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1725 …}
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      -id: 111797
      -bodyTs: "'/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':20 '1':35 '850':36 'agre':87 'bad':99 'batteri':52 'better':91 'brake':8 'carbuzz.com':19 'carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':18 'chang':94 'climat':93 'comprehens':22 'drive':29 'dust':9 'edit':71 'effect':84 'electr':56 'emiss':17,31,43 'environ':102 'equival':41 'ev':89,96 'everyday':28 'exhaust':42 'expert':85 'fit':54 'found':25 'greater':38 'greenhous':83 'heavier':51 'increas':59 'made':47 'mass':61 'might':12 'much':5 'overwhelm':86 'pack':53 'particul':30,79 'place':65 'pollut':11 'say':76 'still':98 'strain':67 'studi':23 'tailpip':16 'time':37 'tire':10,33,70,78 'turn':64 'vehicl':57,60 'wors':6,14,48"
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      +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767705"
      +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699952881 {#1611
        date: 2023-11-14 10:08:01.0 +01:00
      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719173 {#1598
        date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 111797
    }
    7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
      +body: """
        It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
        \n
        [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
        \n
        > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
        \n
        I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 16
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1699719642 {#1726
        date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
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      +ip: null
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      +mentions: [
        "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
        "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
        "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1737 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1732 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1735 …}
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      -id: 111836
      -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':18 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':25 '20':48 '50':56 'accord':38,49 'alreadi':28 'also':60 'anoth':19 'anyth':72 'articl':20,87 'bad':90 'big':80 'biggest':103 'brake':75 'car':37 'dozen':85 'dust':76 'electr':36 'even':3,11,97 'forb':22 'goodyear':51 'increas':42 'liter':84 'm':69,95 'mention':98 'michelin':40 'microplast':99 'near':78 'pollut':9,15,92 'problem':30,83 'research':63 'said':7 'see':71 'seen':67 'sourc':104 'switch':34 'tailpip':14 'tire':8,26,43,91,100 'valid':59 've':66 'wear':44 'wors':4,12 'www.forbes.com':24 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':23 'www.theguardian.com':17 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':16"
      +ranking: 0
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      +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767893"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719642 {#1728
        date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 111836
    }
    6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1741 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
      +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
      +lang: "en"
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        date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
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        "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
        "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
        "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        "@corey389@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
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      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
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      -id: 112328
      -bodyTs: "'bad':38 'better':23 'biggest':46 'capita':9 'car':14,41 'caus':33 'compar':18 'damag':36 'distanc':6 'environment':35 'ev':2,50 'ice':20 'killer':47 'land':39 'major':34 'make':52 'may':51 'mode':15 'non':13 'non-car':12 'one':25,43 'other':30 'particular':26 'per':5,8 'problem':54 'still':32 'transport':17 'use':40 'way':27 'worldwid':48 'wors':4,28,55"
      +ranking: 0
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      +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699850987 {#1716
        date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726562 {#1717
        date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 112328
    }
    5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2457 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
      +body: """
        I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
        \n
        *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
        \n
        edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
        """
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        "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
        "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
        "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2454 …}
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      -id: 112348
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      +ranking: 0
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      +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699851345 {#2460
        date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
      }
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726842 {#2453
        date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 112348
    }
    4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2364 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
      +body: """
        You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
        \n
        Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
        """
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        date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
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        "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
        "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
        "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2372 …}
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      +ranking: 0
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        date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 112408
    }
    3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
      +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
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      +score: 0
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        "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
        "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
        "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
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      -id: 112413
      -bodyTs: "'argument':5 'declar':9"
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727603 {#1708
        date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
      }
      +"title": 112413
    }
    2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
      +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
      +image: null
      +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
      +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
      +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
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        date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
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        "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
        "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
      ]
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      -id: 112447
      -bodyTs: "'actual':16 'alway':28 'ask':14 'especi':22 'expect':8 'hot':23 'idea':21 'like':25 'm':2 'petrol':26 'reason':17 'superior':30 'support':19 'sure':4 'take':24 'unreason':12"
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        date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 112447
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    1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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      +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
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        date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
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        "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
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        date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
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      +"title": 113000
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    0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
      +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
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      +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
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        +body: """
          But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
          \n
          If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
          """
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        +body: """
          But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
          \n
          **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
          \n
          [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
          \n
          [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
          \n
          > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
          \n
          According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
          """
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        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1705 …}
        -id: 111756
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':47 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':121 '/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':64 '20':144 '50':152 'accord':114,134,145 'adopt':109 'air':13 'alreadi':124 'also':156,182 'america':106 'articl':26,41,61,118 'atlant':60 'away':190 'begin':107 'better':170 'bigger':10 'brake':18 'car':111,133,175,192 'clear':167 'danger':86 'deepen':84 'depend':193 'discuss':65 'dozen':24 'dust':5,19 'edit':20,164 'electr':110,132 'en':112 'ev':29,70,72,90,168,179,181 'everi':174 'exhaust':58 'forb':117 'generat':80 'get':103 'goodyear':147 'guardian':44 'heavier':77 'ice':37,172 'increas':3,68,138 'liter':23 'mass':113 'massiv':2 'michelin':136 'model':73 'much':9,50 'need':187 'new':71 'one':98 'particul':34,53,67,82 'pois':101 'pollut':16,35,54,95 'problem':96,126 'produc':31 'quicker':79 'research':159 'seen':163 'sourc':11 'still':186 'suck':183 'switch':130 'tailpip':57 'tend':74 'tire':4,33,66,94,122,139 'tire-pollut':93 'transit':189 'tyre':52 'valid':155 've':162 'water':15 'wear':140 'word':89 'wors':51,104 'www.forbes.com':120 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':119 'www.theatlantic.com':63 'www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':62 'www.theguardian.com':46 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':45"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767533"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699923103 {#1613
          date: 2023-11-14 01:51:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699718733 {#1604
          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111756
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1629 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
          \n
          > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
          \n
          **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 11
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699719173 {#1616
          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1628 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1599 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1625 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1617 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1725 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1722 …}
        -id: 111797
        -bodyTs: "'/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':20 '1':35 '850':36 'agre':87 'bad':99 'batteri':52 'better':91 'brake':8 'carbuzz.com':19 'carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':18 'chang':94 'climat':93 'comprehens':22 'drive':29 'dust':9 'edit':71 'effect':84 'electr':56 'emiss':17,31,43 'environ':102 'equival':41 'ev':89,96 'everyday':28 'exhaust':42 'expert':85 'fit':54 'found':25 'greater':38 'greenhous':83 'heavier':51 'increas':59 'made':47 'mass':61 'might':12 'much':5 'overwhelm':86 'pack':53 'particul':30,79 'place':65 'pollut':11 'say':76 'still':98 'strain':67 'studi':23 'tailpip':16 'time':37 'tire':10,33,70,78 'turn':64 'vehicl':57,60 'wors':6,14,48"
        +ranking: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767705"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699952881 {#1611
          date: 2023-11-14 10:08:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719173 {#1598
          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111797
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
          \n
          [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 16
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699719642 {#1726
          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1737 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1732 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1735 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1729 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1719 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1714 …}
        -id: 111836
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':18 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':25 '20':48 '50':56 'accord':38,49 'alreadi':28 'also':60 'anoth':19 'anyth':72 'articl':20,87 'bad':90 'big':80 'biggest':103 'brake':75 'car':37 'dozen':85 'dust':76 'electr':36 'even':3,11,97 'forb':22 'goodyear':51 'increas':42 'liter':84 'm':69,95 'mention':98 'michelin':40 'microplast':99 'near':78 'pollut':9,15,92 'problem':30,83 'research':63 'said':7 'see':71 'seen':67 'sourc':104 'switch':34 'tailpip':14 'tire':8,26,43,91,100 'valid':59 've':66 'wear':44 'wors':4,12 'www.forbes.com':24 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':23 'www.theguardian.com':17 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':16"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767893"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719642 {#1728
          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111836
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1741 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 11
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699726562 {#1720
          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@corey389@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
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        -id: 112328
        -bodyTs: "'bad':38 'better':23 'biggest':46 'capita':9 'car':14,41 'caus':33 'compar':18 'damag':36 'distanc':6 'environment':35 'ev':2,50 'ice':20 'killer':47 'land':39 'major':34 'make':52 'may':51 'mode':15 'non':13 'non-car':12 'one':25,43 'other':30 'particular':26 'per':5,8 'problem':54 'still':32 'transport':17 'use':40 'way':27 'worldwid':48 'wors':4,28,55"
        +ranking: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770565"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699850987 {#1716
          date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726562 {#1717
          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112328
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2457 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
          \n
          *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
          \n
          edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699726842 {#2456
          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2454 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2459 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2470 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2467 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2371 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2370 …}
        -id: 112348
        -bodyTs: "'air':95 'also':87 'aren':23 'argu':20 'argument':84 'away':72 'bad':46 'better':25,112 'brake':10 'car':39,74 'chang':59 'climat':28,36,58 'contribut':100 'contributor':56 'could':117 'doubt':108 'dust':6,11 'edit':85 'effect':104 'emiss':44 'encourag':77 'ev':22 'greenhous':103 'harm':37 'haven':88 'ice':30,78,114 'idea':65 'inan':83 'land':47 'liter':16 'lot':33,51 'major':55 'matter':97 'move':71 'much':94 'one':18 'park':50 'particul':96 'pavement':49 'push':69 'seen':90 'signific':120 'sprawl':53 'still':111,118 'studi':91 'tailpip':43 'talk':3 'tire':5,99 'typo':15 'understand':63 'urban':52 'use':48,79 'wors':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770668"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699851345 {#2460
          date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726842 {#2453
          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112348
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2364 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
          \n
          Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727556 {#2360
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2372 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2386 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2385 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2378 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2381 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1910 …}
        -id: 112408
        -bodyTs: "'actual':70 'air':21,30 'also':27,86 'away':91 'bad':67 'car':81,93 'care':54 'confus':7 'consequ':32 'drink':40 'effect':68 'environ':43,57 'etc':46 'ev':62,73,83 'everi':79 'everyon':52 'favor':60 'food':38 'ice':64 'increas':71 'leak':35 'link':16 'matter':51 'mean':9 'microplast':34 'need':76,87 'non':29 'non-air':28 'ocean':45 'pollut':22,31 're':2 'remain':80 'research':14 'right':3 'say':11 'small':50 'societi':90 'suppli':39 'tire':24 'transit':78,89 'use':74 'water':41 'wrote':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770950"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727556 {#2359
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112408
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727603 {#1909
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2387 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2394 …}
        -id: 112413
        -bodyTs: "'argument':5 'declar':9"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770963"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727603 {#1708
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112413
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 5
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699728041 {#2393
          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1385 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1401 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1363 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1362 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2019 …}
        -id: 112447
        -bodyTs: "'actual':16 'alway':28 'ask':14 'especi':22 'expect':8 'hot':23 'idea':21 'like':25 'm':2 'petrol':26 'reason':17 'superior':30 'support':19 'sure':4 'take':24 'unreason':12"
        +ranking: 0
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        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4771134"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699728041 {#1384
          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112447
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699736149 {#2030
          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2022 …}
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        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2013 …}
        -id: 113000
        -bodyTs: "'300':39 'absurd':25 'also':42 'batteri':27 'benefit':55 'big':10 'car':13 'case':31 'commut':36 'consum':41 'daili':35 'demand':23 'didn':21 'effici':50 'even':32 'explod':17 'heavier':3 'high':26 'instead':48 'mile':40 'much':2 'negat':51 'peopl':20 'power':47 'problem':11 'rang':28 'seem':43 'size':14 'though':33 'transit':58 'unnecessari':46 'want':45 'weren':15 'wouldn':5 'yes':1"
        +ranking: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4774086"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699736149 {#2032
          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113000
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
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          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@floofloof@lemmy.ca"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2144 …}
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        -id: 113349
        -bodyTs: "'bigger':34 'car':16 'consum':25 'effici':28 'engin':32 'europ':6 'extra':27 'increas':19 'keep':18 'might':2 'optimist':11 'power':31 'rang':35 'seem':21 'size':17 'us':14 'want':23"
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          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113349
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    ]
    -id: 11788
    -titleTs: "'also':2 'tesla':3 'yes':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699633009 {#1696
      date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
  +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 12
  +score: 0
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    date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
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    "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
    "@HonoraryMancunian@lemmy.world"
    "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
    "@fiah@discuss.tchncs.de"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1671 …}
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  -id: 109758
  -bodyTs: "'car':14 'chang':17 'dead':19 'doesn':15 'go':3 'hit':24 'mind':11 'say':5 'without':4"
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    date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 109758
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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Show voter details
7 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
  +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1979 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3020 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3048 …}
    +slug: "Yes-also-Teslas"
    +title: "Yes, also Teslas"
    +url: "https://media.mastodon.scot/mastodon-scot-public/media_attachments/files/111/386/122/832/701/352/original/adf530561fcd6b97.jpg"
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      date: 2023-11-15 19:58:09.0 +01:00
    }
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3047 …}
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    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3072 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3089 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709}
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1550 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1561 …}
        +body: """
          But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
          \n
          If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
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          "@thantik@lemmy.world"
          "@cestvrai@lemm.ee"
          "@Buffaloaf@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 109960
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699673663 {#1559
          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 109960
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
          \n
          **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
          \n
          [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
          \n
          [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
          \n
          > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
          \n
          According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
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        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
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        -id: 111756
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':47 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':121 '/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':64 '20':144 '50':152 'accord':114,134,145 'adopt':109 'air':13 'alreadi':124 'also':156,182 'america':106 'articl':26,41,61,118 'atlant':60 'away':190 'begin':107 'better':170 'bigger':10 'brake':18 'car':111,133,175,192 'clear':167 'danger':86 'deepen':84 'depend':193 'discuss':65 'dozen':24 'dust':5,19 'edit':20,164 'electr':110,132 'en':112 'ev':29,70,72,90,168,179,181 'everi':174 'exhaust':58 'forb':117 'generat':80 'get':103 'goodyear':147 'guardian':44 'heavier':77 'ice':37,172 'increas':3,68,138 'liter':23 'mass':113 'massiv':2 'michelin':136 'model':73 'much':9,50 'need':187 'new':71 'one':98 'particul':34,53,67,82 'pois':101 'pollut':16,35,54,95 'problem':96,126 'produc':31 'quicker':79 'research':159 'seen':163 'sourc':11 'still':186 'suck':183 'switch':130 'tailpip':57 'tend':74 'tire':4,33,66,94,122,139 'tire-pollut':93 'transit':189 'tyre':52 'valid':155 've':162 'water':15 'wear':140 'word':89 'wors':51,104 'www.forbes.com':120 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':119 'www.theatlantic.com':63 'www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':62 'www.theguardian.com':46 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':45"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767533"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699923103 {#1613
          date: 2023-11-14 01:51:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699718733 {#1604
          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111756
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1629 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
          \n
          > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
          \n
          **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
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        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1628 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1599 …}
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        -id: 111797
        -bodyTs: "'/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':20 '1':35 '850':36 'agre':87 'bad':99 'batteri':52 'better':91 'brake':8 'carbuzz.com':19 'carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':18 'chang':94 'climat':93 'comprehens':22 'drive':29 'dust':9 'edit':71 'effect':84 'electr':56 'emiss':17,31,43 'environ':102 'equival':41 'ev':89,96 'everyday':28 'exhaust':42 'expert':85 'fit':54 'found':25 'greater':38 'greenhous':83 'heavier':51 'increas':59 'made':47 'mass':61 'might':12 'much':5 'overwhelm':86 'pack':53 'particul':30,79 'place':65 'pollut':11 'say':76 'still':98 'strain':67 'studi':23 'tailpip':16 'time':37 'tire':10,33,70,78 'turn':64 'vehicl':57,60 'wors':6,14,48"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767705"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699952881 {#1611
          date: 2023-11-14 10:08:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719173 {#1598
          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111797
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
          \n
          [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 16
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1737 …}
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        -id: 111836
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':18 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':25 '20':48 '50':56 'accord':38,49 'alreadi':28 'also':60 'anoth':19 'anyth':72 'articl':20,87 'bad':90 'big':80 'biggest':103 'brake':75 'car':37 'dozen':85 'dust':76 'electr':36 'even':3,11,97 'forb':22 'goodyear':51 'increas':42 'liter':84 'm':69,95 'mention':98 'michelin':40 'microplast':99 'near':78 'pollut':9,15,92 'problem':30,83 'research':63 'said':7 'see':71 'seen':67 'sourc':104 'switch':34 'tailpip':14 'tire':8,26,43,91,100 'valid':59 've':66 'wear':44 'wors':4,12 'www.forbes.com':24 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':23 'www.theguardian.com':17 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':16"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767893"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719642 {#1728
          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111836
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1741 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@corey389@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
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        -id: 112328
        -bodyTs: "'bad':38 'better':23 'biggest':46 'capita':9 'car':14,41 'caus':33 'compar':18 'damag':36 'distanc':6 'environment':35 'ev':2,50 'ice':20 'killer':47 'land':39 'major':34 'make':52 'may':51 'mode':15 'non':13 'non-car':12 'one':25,43 'other':30 'particular':26 'per':5,8 'problem':54 'still':32 'transport':17 'use':40 'way':27 'worldwid':48 'wors':4,28,55"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770565"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699850987 {#1716
          date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726562 {#1717
          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112328
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2457 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
          \n
          *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
          \n
          edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
          """
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          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112348
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2364 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
          \n
          Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        +"title": 112408
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
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          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 112413
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      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
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          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 113000
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
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        +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
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    ]
    -id: 11788
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      date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
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     …2
  }
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  +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
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Show voter details
8 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709}
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        +body: """
          But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
          \n
          If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596
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        +body: """
          But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
          \n
          **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
          \n
          [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
          \n
          [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
          \n
          > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
          \n
          According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
          """
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        -id: 111756
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':47 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':121 '/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':64 '20':144 '50':152 'accord':114,134,145 'adopt':109 'air':13 'alreadi':124 'also':156,182 'america':106 'articl':26,41,61,118 'atlant':60 'away':190 'begin':107 'better':170 'bigger':10 'brake':18 'car':111,133,175,192 'clear':167 'danger':86 'deepen':84 'depend':193 'discuss':65 'dozen':24 'dust':5,19 'edit':20,164 'electr':110,132 'en':112 'ev':29,70,72,90,168,179,181 'everi':174 'exhaust':58 'forb':117 'generat':80 'get':103 'goodyear':147 'guardian':44 'heavier':77 'ice':37,172 'increas':3,68,138 'liter':23 'mass':113 'massiv':2 'michelin':136 'model':73 'much':9,50 'need':187 'new':71 'one':98 'particul':34,53,67,82 'pois':101 'pollut':16,35,54,95 'problem':96,126 'produc':31 'quicker':79 'research':159 'seen':163 'sourc':11 'still':186 'suck':183 'switch':130 'tailpip':57 'tend':74 'tire':4,33,66,94,122,139 'tire-pollut':93 'transit':189 'tyre':52 'valid':155 've':162 'water':15 'wear':140 'word':89 'wors':51,104 'www.forbes.com':120 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':119 'www.theatlantic.com':63 'www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':62 'www.theguardian.com':46 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':45"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767533"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699923103 {#1613
          date: 2023-11-14 01:51:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699718733 {#1604
          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111756
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1629 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
          \n
          > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
          \n
          **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 11
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699719173 {#1616
          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1628 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1599 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1625 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1617 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1725 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1722 …}
        -id: 111797
        -bodyTs: "'/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':20 '1':35 '850':36 'agre':87 'bad':99 'batteri':52 'better':91 'brake':8 'carbuzz.com':19 'carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':18 'chang':94 'climat':93 'comprehens':22 'drive':29 'dust':9 'edit':71 'effect':84 'electr':56 'emiss':17,31,43 'environ':102 'equival':41 'ev':89,96 'everyday':28 'exhaust':42 'expert':85 'fit':54 'found':25 'greater':38 'greenhous':83 'heavier':51 'increas':59 'made':47 'mass':61 'might':12 'much':5 'overwhelm':86 'pack':53 'particul':30,79 'place':65 'pollut':11 'say':76 'still':98 'strain':67 'studi':23 'tailpip':16 'time':37 'tire':10,33,70,78 'turn':64 'vehicl':57,60 'wors':6,14,48"
        +ranking: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767705"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699952881 {#1611
          date: 2023-11-14 10:08:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719173 {#1598
          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111797
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
          \n
          [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 16
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699719642 {#1726
          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1737 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1732 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1735 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1729 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1719 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1714 …}
        -id: 111836
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':18 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':25 '20':48 '50':56 'accord':38,49 'alreadi':28 'also':60 'anoth':19 'anyth':72 'articl':20,87 'bad':90 'big':80 'biggest':103 'brake':75 'car':37 'dozen':85 'dust':76 'electr':36 'even':3,11,97 'forb':22 'goodyear':51 'increas':42 'liter':84 'm':69,95 'mention':98 'michelin':40 'microplast':99 'near':78 'pollut':9,15,92 'problem':30,83 'research':63 'said':7 'see':71 'seen':67 'sourc':104 'switch':34 'tailpip':14 'tire':8,26,43,91,100 'valid':59 've':66 'wear':44 'wors':4,12 'www.forbes.com':24 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':23 'www.theguardian.com':17 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':16"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767893"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719642 {#1728
          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111836
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1741 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 11
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699726562 {#1720
          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@corey389@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
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        -id: 112328
        -bodyTs: "'bad':38 'better':23 'biggest':46 'capita':9 'car':14,41 'caus':33 'compar':18 'damag':36 'distanc':6 'environment':35 'ev':2,50 'ice':20 'killer':47 'land':39 'major':34 'make':52 'may':51 'mode':15 'non':13 'non-car':12 'one':25,43 'other':30 'particular':26 'per':5,8 'problem':54 'still':32 'transport':17 'use':40 'way':27 'worldwid':48 'wors':4,28,55"
        +ranking: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770565"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699850987 {#1716
          date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726562 {#1717
          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112328
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2457 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
          \n
          *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
          \n
          edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699726842 {#2456
          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2454 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2459 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2470 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2467 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2371 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2370 …}
        -id: 112348
        -bodyTs: "'air':95 'also':87 'aren':23 'argu':20 'argument':84 'away':72 'bad':46 'better':25,112 'brake':10 'car':39,74 'chang':59 'climat':28,36,58 'contribut':100 'contributor':56 'could':117 'doubt':108 'dust':6,11 'edit':85 'effect':104 'emiss':44 'encourag':77 'ev':22 'greenhous':103 'harm':37 'haven':88 'ice':30,78,114 'idea':65 'inan':83 'land':47 'liter':16 'lot':33,51 'major':55 'matter':97 'move':71 'much':94 'one':18 'park':50 'particul':96 'pavement':49 'push':69 'seen':90 'signific':120 'sprawl':53 'still':111,118 'studi':91 'tailpip':43 'talk':3 'tire':5,99 'typo':15 'understand':63 'urban':52 'use':48,79 'wors':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770668"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699851345 {#2460
          date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726842 {#2453
          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112348
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2364 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
          \n
          Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727556 {#2360
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2372 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2386 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2385 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2378 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2381 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1910 …}
        -id: 112408
        -bodyTs: "'actual':70 'air':21,30 'also':27,86 'away':91 'bad':67 'car':81,93 'care':54 'confus':7 'consequ':32 'drink':40 'effect':68 'environ':43,57 'etc':46 'ev':62,73,83 'everi':79 'everyon':52 'favor':60 'food':38 'ice':64 'increas':71 'leak':35 'link':16 'matter':51 'mean':9 'microplast':34 'need':76,87 'non':29 'non-air':28 'ocean':45 'pollut':22,31 're':2 'remain':80 'research':14 'right':3 'say':11 'small':50 'societi':90 'suppli':39 'tire':24 'transit':78,89 'use':74 'water':41 'wrote':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770950"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727556 {#2359
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112408
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727603 {#1909
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2387 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2394 …}
        -id: 112413
        -bodyTs: "'argument':5 'declar':9"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770963"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727603 {#1708
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112413
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 5
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699728041 {#2393
          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1385 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1401 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1363 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1362 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2019 …}
        -id: 112447
        -bodyTs: "'actual':16 'alway':28 'ask':14 'especi':22 'expect':8 'hot':23 'idea':21 'like':25 'm':2 'petrol':26 'reason':17 'superior':30 'support':19 'sure':4 'take':24 'unreason':12"
        +ranking: 0
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        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4771134"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699728041 {#1384
          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112447
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699736149 {#2030
          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2022 …}
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        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2013 …}
        -id: 113000
        -bodyTs: "'300':39 'absurd':25 'also':42 'batteri':27 'benefit':55 'big':10 'car':13 'case':31 'commut':36 'consum':41 'daili':35 'demand':23 'didn':21 'effici':50 'even':32 'explod':17 'heavier':3 'high':26 'instead':48 'mile':40 'much':2 'negat':51 'peopl':20 'power':47 'problem':11 'rang':28 'seem':43 'size':14 'though':33 'transit':58 'unnecessari':46 'want':45 'weren':15 'wouldn':5 'yes':1"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113000
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@floofloof@lemmy.ca"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2144 …}
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        -id: 113349
        -bodyTs: "'bigger':34 'car':16 'consum':25 'effici':28 'engin':32 'europ':6 'extra':27 'increas':19 'keep':18 'might':2 'optimist':11 'power':31 'rang':35 'seem':21 'size':17 'us':14 'want':23"
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          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113349
      }
    ]
    -id: 11788
    -titleTs: "'also':2 'tesla':3 'yes':1"
    -bodyTs: null
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    +upVotes: 0
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    +ranking: 1699719409
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699633009 {#1696
      date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
  +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 12
  +score: 0
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    date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
  }
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    "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
    "@HonoraryMancunian@lemmy.world"
    "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
    "@fiah@discuss.tchncs.de"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1671 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1667 …}
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  -id: 109758
  -bodyTs: "'car':14 'chang':17 'dead':19 'doesn':15 'go':3 'hit':24 'mind':11 'say':5 'without':4"
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    date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 109758
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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10 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
  +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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    +slug: "Yes-also-Teslas"
    +title: "Yes, also Teslas"
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    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@HonoraryMancunian@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@fiah@discuss.tchncs.de"
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          date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 109758
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
          \n
          **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
          \n
          [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
          \n
          [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
          \n
          > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
          \n
          According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
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        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
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        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1705 …}
        -id: 111756
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':47 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':121 '/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':64 '20':144 '50':152 'accord':114,134,145 'adopt':109 'air':13 'alreadi':124 'also':156,182 'america':106 'articl':26,41,61,118 'atlant':60 'away':190 'begin':107 'better':170 'bigger':10 'brake':18 'car':111,133,175,192 'clear':167 'danger':86 'deepen':84 'depend':193 'discuss':65 'dozen':24 'dust':5,19 'edit':20,164 'electr':110,132 'en':112 'ev':29,70,72,90,168,179,181 'everi':174 'exhaust':58 'forb':117 'generat':80 'get':103 'goodyear':147 'guardian':44 'heavier':77 'ice':37,172 'increas':3,68,138 'liter':23 'mass':113 'massiv':2 'michelin':136 'model':73 'much':9,50 'need':187 'new':71 'one':98 'particul':34,53,67,82 'pois':101 'pollut':16,35,54,95 'problem':96,126 'produc':31 'quicker':79 'research':159 'seen':163 'sourc':11 'still':186 'suck':183 'switch':130 'tailpip':57 'tend':74 'tire':4,33,66,94,122,139 'tire-pollut':93 'transit':189 'tyre':52 'valid':155 've':162 'water':15 'wear':140 'word':89 'wors':51,104 'www.forbes.com':120 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':119 'www.theatlantic.com':63 'www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':62 'www.theguardian.com':46 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':45"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767533"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699923103 {#1613
          date: 2023-11-14 01:51:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699718733 {#1604
          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111756
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1629 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
          \n
          > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
          \n
          **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1628 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1599 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1625 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1617 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1725 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1722 …}
        -id: 111797
        -bodyTs: "'/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':20 '1':35 '850':36 'agre':87 'bad':99 'batteri':52 'better':91 'brake':8 'carbuzz.com':19 'carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':18 'chang':94 'climat':93 'comprehens':22 'drive':29 'dust':9 'edit':71 'effect':84 'electr':56 'emiss':17,31,43 'environ':102 'equival':41 'ev':89,96 'everyday':28 'exhaust':42 'expert':85 'fit':54 'found':25 'greater':38 'greenhous':83 'heavier':51 'increas':59 'made':47 'mass':61 'might':12 'much':5 'overwhelm':86 'pack':53 'particul':30,79 'place':65 'pollut':11 'say':76 'still':98 'strain':67 'studi':23 'tailpip':16 'time':37 'tire':10,33,70,78 'turn':64 'vehicl':57,60 'wors':6,14,48"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767705"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699952881 {#1611
          date: 2023-11-14 10:08:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719173 {#1598
          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111797
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
          \n
          [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 16
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1737 …}
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        -id: 111836
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':18 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':25 '20':48 '50':56 'accord':38,49 'alreadi':28 'also':60 'anoth':19 'anyth':72 'articl':20,87 'bad':90 'big':80 'biggest':103 'brake':75 'car':37 'dozen':85 'dust':76 'electr':36 'even':3,11,97 'forb':22 'goodyear':51 'increas':42 'liter':84 'm':69,95 'mention':98 'michelin':40 'microplast':99 'near':78 'pollut':9,15,92 'problem':30,83 'research':63 'said':7 'see':71 'seen':67 'sourc':104 'switch':34 'tailpip':14 'tire':8,26,43,91,100 'valid':59 've':66 'wear':44 'wors':4,12 'www.forbes.com':24 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':23 'www.theguardian.com':17 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':16"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767893"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719642 {#1728
          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111836
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1741 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@corey389@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
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        -id: 112328
        -bodyTs: "'bad':38 'better':23 'biggest':46 'capita':9 'car':14,41 'caus':33 'compar':18 'damag':36 'distanc':6 'environment':35 'ev':2,50 'ice':20 'killer':47 'land':39 'major':34 'make':52 'may':51 'mode':15 'non':13 'non-car':12 'one':25,43 'other':30 'particular':26 'per':5,8 'problem':54 'still':32 'transport':17 'use':40 'way':27 'worldwid':48 'wors':4,28,55"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770565"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699850987 {#1716
          date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726562 {#1717
          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112328
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2457 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
          \n
          *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
          \n
          edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2454 …}
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        -id: 112348
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726842 {#2453
          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112348
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2364 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
          \n
          Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727556 {#2360
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2372 …}
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112408
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112413
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
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        -id: 112447
        -bodyTs: "'actual':16 'alway':28 'ask':14 'especi':22 'expect':8 'hot':23 'idea':21 'like':25 'm':2 'petrol':26 'reason':17 'superior':30 'support':19 'sure':4 'take':24 'unreason':12"
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112447
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
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          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 113000
        -bodyTs: "'300':39 'absurd':25 'also':42 'batteri':27 'benefit':55 'big':10 'car':13 'case':31 'commut':36 'consum':41 'daili':35 'demand':23 'didn':21 'effici':50 'even':32 'explod':17 'heavier':3 'high':26 'instead':48 'mile':40 'much':2 'negat':51 'peopl':20 'power':47 'problem':11 'rang':28 'seem':43 'size':14 'though':33 'transit':58 'unnecessari':46 'want':45 'weren':15 'wouldn':5 'yes':1"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4774086"
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          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113000
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
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          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@floofloof@lemmy.ca"
        ]
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        -id: 113349
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          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
        }
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    ]
    -id: 11788
    -titleTs: "'also':2 'tesla':3 'yes':1"
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      date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: null
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  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1561 …}
  +body: """
    But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
    \n
    If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
    """
  +lang: "en"
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    date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
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    "@thantik@lemmy.world"
    "@cestvrai@lemm.ee"
    "@Buffaloaf@lemmy.world"
  ]
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  -id: 109960
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
11 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
  +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1979 …}
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3020 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3048 …}
    +slug: "Yes-also-Teslas"
    +title: "Yes, also Teslas"
    +url: "https://media.mastodon.scot/mastodon-scot-public/media_attachments/files/111/386/122/832/701/352/original/adf530561fcd6b97.jpg"
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      date: 2023-11-15 19:58:09.0 +01:00
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3047 …}
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    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@HonoraryMancunian@lemmy.world"
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          date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 109758
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +body: """
          But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
          \n
          **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
          \n
          [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
          \n
          [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
          \n
          > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
          \n
          According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
          """
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
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        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1705 …}
        -id: 111756
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':47 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':121 '/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':64 '20':144 '50':152 'accord':114,134,145 'adopt':109 'air':13 'alreadi':124 'also':156,182 'america':106 'articl':26,41,61,118 'atlant':60 'away':190 'begin':107 'better':170 'bigger':10 'brake':18 'car':111,133,175,192 'clear':167 'danger':86 'deepen':84 'depend':193 'discuss':65 'dozen':24 'dust':5,19 'edit':20,164 'electr':110,132 'en':112 'ev':29,70,72,90,168,179,181 'everi':174 'exhaust':58 'forb':117 'generat':80 'get':103 'goodyear':147 'guardian':44 'heavier':77 'ice':37,172 'increas':3,68,138 'liter':23 'mass':113 'massiv':2 'michelin':136 'model':73 'much':9,50 'need':187 'new':71 'one':98 'particul':34,53,67,82 'pois':101 'pollut':16,35,54,95 'problem':96,126 'produc':31 'quicker':79 'research':159 'seen':163 'sourc':11 'still':186 'suck':183 'switch':130 'tailpip':57 'tend':74 'tire':4,33,66,94,122,139 'tire-pollut':93 'transit':189 'tyre':52 'valid':155 've':162 'water':15 'wear':140 'word':89 'wors':51,104 'www.forbes.com':120 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':119 'www.theatlantic.com':63 'www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':62 'www.theguardian.com':46 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':45"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767533"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699923103 {#1613
          date: 2023-11-14 01:51:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699718733 {#1604
          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111756
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1629 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
          \n
          > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
          \n
          **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 11
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699719173 {#1616
          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1628 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1599 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1625 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1617 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1725 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1722 …}
        -id: 111797
        -bodyTs: "'/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':20 '1':35 '850':36 'agre':87 'bad':99 'batteri':52 'better':91 'brake':8 'carbuzz.com':19 'carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':18 'chang':94 'climat':93 'comprehens':22 'drive':29 'dust':9 'edit':71 'effect':84 'electr':56 'emiss':17,31,43 'environ':102 'equival':41 'ev':89,96 'everyday':28 'exhaust':42 'expert':85 'fit':54 'found':25 'greater':38 'greenhous':83 'heavier':51 'increas':59 'made':47 'mass':61 'might':12 'much':5 'overwhelm':86 'pack':53 'particul':30,79 'place':65 'pollut':11 'say':76 'still':98 'strain':67 'studi':23 'tailpip':16 'time':37 'tire':10,33,70,78 'turn':64 'vehicl':57,60 'wors':6,14,48"
        +ranking: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767705"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699952881 {#1611
          date: 2023-11-14 10:08:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719173 {#1598
          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111797
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
          \n
          [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 16
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699719642 {#1726
          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1737 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1732 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1735 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1729 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1719 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1714 …}
        -id: 111836
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':18 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':25 '20':48 '50':56 'accord':38,49 'alreadi':28 'also':60 'anoth':19 'anyth':72 'articl':20,87 'bad':90 'big':80 'biggest':103 'brake':75 'car':37 'dozen':85 'dust':76 'electr':36 'even':3,11,97 'forb':22 'goodyear':51 'increas':42 'liter':84 'm':69,95 'mention':98 'michelin':40 'microplast':99 'near':78 'pollut':9,15,92 'problem':30,83 'research':63 'said':7 'see':71 'seen':67 'sourc':104 'switch':34 'tailpip':14 'tire':8,26,43,91,100 'valid':59 've':66 'wear':44 'wors':4,12 'www.forbes.com':24 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':23 'www.theguardian.com':17 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':16"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767893"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719642 {#1728
          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111836
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1741 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 11
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699726562 {#1720
          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@corey389@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
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        -id: 112328
        -bodyTs: "'bad':38 'better':23 'biggest':46 'capita':9 'car':14,41 'caus':33 'compar':18 'damag':36 'distanc':6 'environment':35 'ev':2,50 'ice':20 'killer':47 'land':39 'major':34 'make':52 'may':51 'mode':15 'non':13 'non-car':12 'one':25,43 'other':30 'particular':26 'per':5,8 'problem':54 'still':32 'transport':17 'use':40 'way':27 'worldwid':48 'wors':4,28,55"
        +ranking: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770565"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699850987 {#1716
          date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726562 {#1717
          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112328
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2457 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
          \n
          *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
          \n
          edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699726842 {#2456
          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2454 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2459 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2470 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2467 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2371 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2370 …}
        -id: 112348
        -bodyTs: "'air':95 'also':87 'aren':23 'argu':20 'argument':84 'away':72 'bad':46 'better':25,112 'brake':10 'car':39,74 'chang':59 'climat':28,36,58 'contribut':100 'contributor':56 'could':117 'doubt':108 'dust':6,11 'edit':85 'effect':104 'emiss':44 'encourag':77 'ev':22 'greenhous':103 'harm':37 'haven':88 'ice':30,78,114 'idea':65 'inan':83 'land':47 'liter':16 'lot':33,51 'major':55 'matter':97 'move':71 'much':94 'one':18 'park':50 'particul':96 'pavement':49 'push':69 'seen':90 'signific':120 'sprawl':53 'still':111,118 'studi':91 'tailpip':43 'talk':3 'tire':5,99 'typo':15 'understand':63 'urban':52 'use':48,79 'wors':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770668"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699851345 {#2460
          date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726842 {#2453
          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112348
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2364 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
          \n
          Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727556 {#2360
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2372 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2386 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2385 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2378 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2381 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1910 …}
        -id: 112408
        -bodyTs: "'actual':70 'air':21,30 'also':27,86 'away':91 'bad':67 'car':81,93 'care':54 'confus':7 'consequ':32 'drink':40 'effect':68 'environ':43,57 'etc':46 'ev':62,73,83 'everi':79 'everyon':52 'favor':60 'food':38 'ice':64 'increas':71 'leak':35 'link':16 'matter':51 'mean':9 'microplast':34 'need':76,87 'non':29 'non-air':28 'ocean':45 'pollut':22,31 're':2 'remain':80 'research':14 'right':3 'say':11 'small':50 'societi':90 'suppli':39 'tire':24 'transit':78,89 'use':74 'water':41 'wrote':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770950"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727556 {#2359
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112408
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727603 {#1909
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2387 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2394 …}
        -id: 112413
        -bodyTs: "'argument':5 'declar':9"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770963"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727603 {#1708
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112413
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 5
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699728041 {#2393
          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1385 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1401 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1363 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1362 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2019 …}
        -id: 112447
        -bodyTs: "'actual':16 'alway':28 'ask':14 'especi':22 'expect':8 'hot':23 'idea':21 'like':25 'm':2 'petrol':26 'reason':17 'superior':30 'support':19 'sure':4 'take':24 'unreason':12"
        +ranking: 0
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        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4771134"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699728041 {#1384
          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112447
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699736149 {#2030
          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2022 …}
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        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2013 …}
        -id: 113000
        -bodyTs: "'300':39 'absurd':25 'also':42 'batteri':27 'benefit':55 'big':10 'car':13 'case':31 'commut':36 'consum':41 'daili':35 'demand':23 'didn':21 'effici':50 'even':32 'explod':17 'heavier':3 'high':26 'instead':48 'mile':40 'much':2 'negat':51 'peopl':20 'power':47 'problem':11 'rang':28 'seem':43 'size':14 'though':33 'transit':58 'unnecessari':46 'want':45 'weren':15 'wouldn':5 'yes':1"
        +ranking: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699736149 {#2032
          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113000
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@floofloof@lemmy.ca"
        ]
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        -id: 113349
        -bodyTs: "'bigger':34 'car':16 'consum':25 'effici':28 'engin':32 'europ':6 'extra':27 'increas':19 'keep':18 'might':2 'optimist':11 'power':31 'rang':35 'seem':21 'size':17 'us':14 'want':23"
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    ]
    -id: 11788
    -titleTs: "'also':2 'tesla':3 'yes':1"
    -bodyTs: null
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      date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
    }
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     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
    \n
    If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
    """
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    date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
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    "@thantik@lemmy.world"
    "@cestvrai@lemm.ee"
    "@Buffaloaf@lemmy.world"
  ]
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  -id: 109960
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    date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
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  +"title": 109960
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
12 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
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    +slug: "Yes-also-Teslas"
    +title: "Yes, also Teslas"
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      date: 2023-11-15 19:58:09.0 +01:00
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
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          "@HonoraryMancunian@lemmy.world"
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          "@fiah@discuss.tchncs.de"
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          date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 109758
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548}
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596
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        +body: """
          But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
          \n
          **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
          \n
          [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
          \n
          [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
          \n
          > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
          \n
          According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
          """
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 111756
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':47 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':121 '/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':64 '20':144 '50':152 'accord':114,134,145 'adopt':109 'air':13 'alreadi':124 'also':156,182 'america':106 'articl':26,41,61,118 'atlant':60 'away':190 'begin':107 'better':170 'bigger':10 'brake':18 'car':111,133,175,192 'clear':167 'danger':86 'deepen':84 'depend':193 'discuss':65 'dozen':24 'dust':5,19 'edit':20,164 'electr':110,132 'en':112 'ev':29,70,72,90,168,179,181 'everi':174 'exhaust':58 'forb':117 'generat':80 'get':103 'goodyear':147 'guardian':44 'heavier':77 'ice':37,172 'increas':3,68,138 'liter':23 'mass':113 'massiv':2 'michelin':136 'model':73 'much':9,50 'need':187 'new':71 'one':98 'particul':34,53,67,82 'pois':101 'pollut':16,35,54,95 'problem':96,126 'produc':31 'quicker':79 'research':159 'seen':163 'sourc':11 'still':186 'suck':183 'switch':130 'tailpip':57 'tend':74 'tire':4,33,66,94,122,139 'tire-pollut':93 'transit':189 'tyre':52 'valid':155 've':162 'water':15 'wear':140 'word':89 'wors':51,104 'www.forbes.com':120 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':119 'www.theatlantic.com':63 'www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':62 'www.theguardian.com':46 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':45"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767533"
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          date: 2023-11-14 01:51:43.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 111756
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
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        +body: """
          Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
          \n
          > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
          \n
          **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
          """
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1628 …}
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        -id: 111797
        -bodyTs: "'/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':20 '1':35 '850':36 'agre':87 'bad':99 'batteri':52 'better':91 'brake':8 'carbuzz.com':19 'carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':18 'chang':94 'climat':93 'comprehens':22 'drive':29 'dust':9 'edit':71 'effect':84 'electr':56 'emiss':17,31,43 'environ':102 'equival':41 'ev':89,96 'everyday':28 'exhaust':42 'expert':85 'fit':54 'found':25 'greater':38 'greenhous':83 'heavier':51 'increas':59 'made':47 'mass':61 'might':12 'much':5 'overwhelm':86 'pack':53 'particul':30,79 'place':65 'pollut':11 'say':76 'still':98 'strain':67 'studi':23 'tailpip':16 'time':37 'tire':10,33,70,78 'turn':64 'vehicl':57,60 'wors':6,14,48"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767705"
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          date: 2023-11-14 10:08:01.0 +01:00
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736
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        +body: """
          It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
          \n
          [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 111836
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':18 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':25 '20':48 '50':56 'accord':38,49 'alreadi':28 'also':60 'anoth':19 'anyth':72 'articl':20,87 'bad':90 'big':80 'biggest':103 'brake':75 'car':37 'dozen':85 'dust':76 'electr':36 'even':3,11,97 'forb':22 'goodyear':51 'increas':42 'liter':84 'm':69,95 'mention':98 'michelin':40 'microplast':99 'near':78 'pollut':9,15,92 'problem':30,83 'research':63 'said':7 'see':71 'seen':67 'sourc':104 'switch':34 'tailpip':14 'tire':8,26,43,91,100 'valid':59 've':66 'wear':44 'wors':4,12 'www.forbes.com':24 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':23 'www.theguardian.com':17 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':16"
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        +"title": 111836
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@corey389@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 112328
        -bodyTs: "'bad':38 'better':23 'biggest':46 'capita':9 'car':14,41 'caus':33 'compar':18 'damag':36 'distanc':6 'environment':35 'ev':2,50 'ice':20 'killer':47 'land':39 'major':34 'make':52 'may':51 'mode':15 'non':13 'non-car':12 'one':25,43 'other':30 'particular':26 'per':5,8 'problem':54 'still':32 'transport':17 'use':40 'way':27 'worldwid':48 'wors':4,28,55"
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          date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 112328
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
          \n
          *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
          \n
          edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
          """
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
        ]
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        -id: 112348
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        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699851345 {#2460
          date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726842 {#2453
          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112348
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2364 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
          \n
          Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727556 {#2360
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2372 …}
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        -id: 112408
        -bodyTs: "'actual':70 'air':21,30 'also':27,86 'away':91 'bad':67 'car':81,93 'care':54 'confus':7 'consequ':32 'drink':40 'effect':68 'environ':43,57 'etc':46 'ev':62,73,83 'everi':79 'everyon':52 'favor':60 'food':38 'ice':64 'increas':71 'leak':35 'link':16 'matter':51 'mean':9 'microplast':34 'need':76,87 'non':29 'non-air':28 'ocean':45 'pollut':22,31 're':2 'remain':80 'research':14 'right':3 'say':11 'small':50 'societi':90 'suppli':39 'tire':24 'transit':78,89 'use':74 'water':41 'wrote':5"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727556 {#2359
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112408
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112413
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
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        -id: 112447
        -bodyTs: "'actual':16 'alway':28 'ask':14 'especi':22 'expect':8 'hot':23 'idea':21 'like':25 'm':2 'petrol':26 'reason':17 'superior':30 'support':19 'sure':4 'take':24 'unreason':12"
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 112447
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 113000
        -bodyTs: "'300':39 'absurd':25 'also':42 'batteri':27 'benefit':55 'big':10 'car':13 'case':31 'commut':36 'consum':41 'daili':35 'demand':23 'didn':21 'effici':50 'even':32 'explod':17 'heavier':3 'high':26 'instead':48 'mile':40 'much':2 'negat':51 'peopl':20 'power':47 'problem':11 'rang':28 'seem':43 'size':14 'though':33 'transit':58 'unnecessari':46 'want':45 'weren':15 'wouldn':5 'yes':1"
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          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113000
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
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        +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@floofloof@lemmy.ca"
        ]
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
        }
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    ]
    -id: 11788
    -titleTs: "'also':2 'tesla':3 'yes':1"
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      date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
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  +body: """
    But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
    \n
    If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
    """
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    "@thantik@lemmy.world"
    "@cestvrai@lemm.ee"
    "@Buffaloaf@lemmy.world"
  ]
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    date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
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  +"title": 109960
}
 
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
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        +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
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        +body: """
          But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
          \n
          If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
          """
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          "@thantik@lemmy.world"
          "@cestvrai@lemm.ee"
          "@Buffaloaf@lemmy.world"
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      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596}
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1629 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
          \n
          > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
          \n
          **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 11
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699719173 {#1616
          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1628 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1599 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1625 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1617 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1725 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1722 …}
        -id: 111797
        -bodyTs: "'/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':20 '1':35 '850':36 'agre':87 'bad':99 'batteri':52 'better':91 'brake':8 'carbuzz.com':19 'carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':18 'chang':94 'climat':93 'comprehens':22 'drive':29 'dust':9 'edit':71 'effect':84 'electr':56 'emiss':17,31,43 'environ':102 'equival':41 'ev':89,96 'everyday':28 'exhaust':42 'expert':85 'fit':54 'found':25 'greater':38 'greenhous':83 'heavier':51 'increas':59 'made':47 'mass':61 'might':12 'much':5 'overwhelm':86 'pack':53 'particul':30,79 'place':65 'pollut':11 'say':76 'still':98 'strain':67 'studi':23 'tailpip':16 'time':37 'tire':10,33,70,78 'turn':64 'vehicl':57,60 'wors':6,14,48"
        +ranking: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767705"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699952881 {#1611
          date: 2023-11-14 10:08:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719173 {#1598
          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111797
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
          \n
          [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 16
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699719642 {#1726
          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1737 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1732 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1735 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1729 …}
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        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1714 …}
        -id: 111836
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':18 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':25 '20':48 '50':56 'accord':38,49 'alreadi':28 'also':60 'anoth':19 'anyth':72 'articl':20,87 'bad':90 'big':80 'biggest':103 'brake':75 'car':37 'dozen':85 'dust':76 'electr':36 'even':3,11,97 'forb':22 'goodyear':51 'increas':42 'liter':84 'm':69,95 'mention':98 'michelin':40 'microplast':99 'near':78 'pollut':9,15,92 'problem':30,83 'research':63 'said':7 'see':71 'seen':67 'sourc':104 'switch':34 'tailpip':14 'tire':8,26,43,91,100 'valid':59 've':66 'wear':44 'wors':4,12 'www.forbes.com':24 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':23 'www.theguardian.com':17 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':16"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767893"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719642 {#1728
          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111836
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1741 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 11
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699726562 {#1720
          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@corey389@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2463 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
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        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2458 …}
        -id: 112328
        -bodyTs: "'bad':38 'better':23 'biggest':46 'capita':9 'car':14,41 'caus':33 'compar':18 'damag':36 'distanc':6 'environment':35 'ev':2,50 'ice':20 'killer':47 'land':39 'major':34 'make':52 'may':51 'mode':15 'non':13 'non-car':12 'one':25,43 'other':30 'particular':26 'per':5,8 'problem':54 'still':32 'transport':17 'use':40 'way':27 'worldwid':48 'wors':4,28,55"
        +ranking: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770565"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699850987 {#1716
          date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726562 {#1717
          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112328
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2457 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
          \n
          *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
          \n
          edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699726842 {#2456
          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2454 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2459 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2470 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2467 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2371 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2370 …}
        -id: 112348
        -bodyTs: "'air':95 'also':87 'aren':23 'argu':20 'argument':84 'away':72 'bad':46 'better':25,112 'brake':10 'car':39,74 'chang':59 'climat':28,36,58 'contribut':100 'contributor':56 'could':117 'doubt':108 'dust':6,11 'edit':85 'effect':104 'emiss':44 'encourag':77 'ev':22 'greenhous':103 'harm':37 'haven':88 'ice':30,78,114 'idea':65 'inan':83 'land':47 'liter':16 'lot':33,51 'major':55 'matter':97 'move':71 'much':94 'one':18 'park':50 'particul':96 'pavement':49 'push':69 'seen':90 'signific':120 'sprawl':53 'still':111,118 'studi':91 'tailpip':43 'talk':3 'tire':5,99 'typo':15 'understand':63 'urban':52 'use':48,79 'wors':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770668"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699851345 {#2460
          date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726842 {#2453
          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112348
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2364 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
          \n
          Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727556 {#2360
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2372 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2386 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2385 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2378 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2381 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1910 …}
        -id: 112408
        -bodyTs: "'actual':70 'air':21,30 'also':27,86 'away':91 'bad':67 'car':81,93 'care':54 'confus':7 'consequ':32 'drink':40 'effect':68 'environ':43,57 'etc':46 'ev':62,73,83 'everi':79 'everyon':52 'favor':60 'food':38 'ice':64 'increas':71 'leak':35 'link':16 'matter':51 'mean':9 'microplast':34 'need':76,87 'non':29 'non-air':28 'ocean':45 'pollut':22,31 're':2 'remain':80 'research':14 'right':3 'say':11 'small':50 'societi':90 'suppli':39 'tire':24 'transit':78,89 'use':74 'water':41 'wrote':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770950"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727556 {#2359
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112408
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727603 {#1909
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2387 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2394 …}
        -id: 112413
        -bodyTs: "'argument':5 'declar':9"
        +ranking: 0
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        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770963"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727603 {#1708
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112413
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 5
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699728041 {#2393
          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1385 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1401 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1363 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1362 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2019 …}
        -id: 112447
        -bodyTs: "'actual':16 'alway':28 'ask':14 'especi':22 'expect':8 'hot':23 'idea':21 'like':25 'm':2 'petrol':26 'reason':17 'superior':30 'support':19 'sure':4 'take':24 'unreason':12"
        +ranking: 0
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        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4771134"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699728041 {#1384
          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112447
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699736149 {#2030
          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2022 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2025 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2012 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2013 …}
        -id: 113000
        -bodyTs: "'300':39 'absurd':25 'also':42 'batteri':27 'benefit':55 'big':10 'car':13 'case':31 'commut':36 'consum':41 'daili':35 'demand':23 'didn':21 'effici':50 'even':32 'explod':17 'heavier':3 'high':26 'instead':48 'mile':40 'much':2 'negat':51 'peopl':20 'power':47 'problem':11 'rang':28 'seem':43 'size':14 'though':33 'transit':58 'unnecessari':46 'want':45 'weren':15 'wouldn':5 'yes':1"
        +ranking: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4774086"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699736149 {#2032
          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113000
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699743269 {#2035
          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@floofloof@lemmy.ca"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2144 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2061 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2084 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2076 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2083 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2085 …}
        -id: 113349
        -bodyTs: "'bigger':34 'car':16 'consum':25 'effici':28 'engin':32 'europ':6 'extra':27 'increas':19 'keep':18 'might':2 'optimist':11 'power':31 'rang':35 'seem':21 'size':17 'us':14 'want':23"
        +ranking: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4776307"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699743269 {#2031
          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113349
      }
    ]
    -id: 11788
    -titleTs: "'also':2 'tesla':3 'yes':1"
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    +cross: false
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      date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
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     …2
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  +body: """
    But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
    \n
    **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
    \n
    [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
    \n
    [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
    \n
    > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
    \n
    According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
    \n
    > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
    \n
    **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
    """
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}
 
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Show voter details
15 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596
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    +slug: "Yes-also-Teslas"
    +title: "Yes, also Teslas"
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      date: 2023-11-15 19:58:09.0 +01:00
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    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@fiah@discuss.tchncs.de"
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        -bodyTs: "'car':14 'chang':17 'dead':19 'doesn':15 'go':3 'hit':24 'mind':11 'say':5 'without':4"
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          date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
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        +body: """
          But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
          \n
          If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
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          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596}
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        +body: """
          Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
          \n
          > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
          \n
          **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
          """
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 111797
        -bodyTs: "'/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':20 '1':35 '850':36 'agre':87 'bad':99 'batteri':52 'better':91 'brake':8 'carbuzz.com':19 'carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':18 'chang':94 'climat':93 'comprehens':22 'drive':29 'dust':9 'edit':71 'effect':84 'electr':56 'emiss':17,31,43 'environ':102 'equival':41 'ev':89,96 'everyday':28 'exhaust':42 'expert':85 'fit':54 'found':25 'greater':38 'greenhous':83 'heavier':51 'increas':59 'made':47 'mass':61 'might':12 'much':5 'overwhelm':86 'pack':53 'particul':30,79 'place':65 'pollut':11 'say':76 'still':98 'strain':67 'studi':23 'tailpip':16 'time':37 'tire':10,33,70,78 'turn':64 'vehicl':57,60 'wors':6,14,48"
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          date: 2023-11-14 10:08:01.0 +01:00
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
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        +body: """
          It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
          \n
          [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 111836
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':18 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':25 '20':48 '50':56 'accord':38,49 'alreadi':28 'also':60 'anoth':19 'anyth':72 'articl':20,87 'bad':90 'big':80 'biggest':103 'brake':75 'car':37 'dozen':85 'dust':76 'electr':36 'even':3,11,97 'forb':22 'goodyear':51 'increas':42 'liter':84 'm':69,95 'mention':98 'michelin':40 'microplast':99 'near':78 'pollut':9,15,92 'problem':30,83 'research':63 'said':7 'see':71 'seen':67 'sourc':104 'switch':34 'tailpip':14 'tire':8,26,43,91,100 'valid':59 've':66 'wear':44 'wors':4,12 'www.forbes.com':24 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':23 'www.theguardian.com':17 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':16"
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
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      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
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        +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
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          date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
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        +body: """
          I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
          \n
          *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
          \n
          edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
          """
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
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          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770668"
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          date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726842 {#2453
          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112348
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2364 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
          \n
          Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2372 …}
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        -id: 112408
        -bodyTs: "'actual':70 'air':21,30 'also':27,86 'away':91 'bad':67 'car':81,93 'care':54 'confus':7 'consequ':32 'drink':40 'effect':68 'environ':43,57 'etc':46 'ev':62,73,83 'everi':79 'everyon':52 'favor':60 'food':38 'ice':64 'increas':71 'leak':35 'link':16 'matter':51 'mean':9 'microplast':34 'need':76,87 'non':29 'non-air':28 'ocean':45 'pollut':22,31 're':2 'remain':80 'research':14 'right':3 'say':11 'small':50 'societi':90 'suppli':39 'tire':24 'transit':78,89 'use':74 'water':41 'wrote':5"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770950"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727556 {#2359
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112408
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727603 {#1909
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
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        -id: 112413
        -bodyTs: "'argument':5 'declar':9"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770963"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727603 {#1708
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112413
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 5
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699728041 {#2393
          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
        +tags: null
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
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        -id: 112447
        -bodyTs: "'actual':16 'alway':28 'ask':14 'especi':22 'expect':8 'hot':23 'idea':21 'like':25 'm':2 'petrol':26 'reason':17 'superior':30 'support':19 'sure':4 'take':24 'unreason':12"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4771134"
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112447
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 113000
        -bodyTs: "'300':39 'absurd':25 'also':42 'batteri':27 'benefit':55 'big':10 'car':13 'case':31 'commut':36 'consum':41 'daili':35 'demand':23 'didn':21 'effici':50 'even':32 'explod':17 'heavier':3 'high':26 'instead':48 'mile':40 'much':2 'negat':51 'peopl':20 'power':47 'problem':11 'rang':28 'seem':43 'size':14 'though':33 'transit':58 'unnecessari':46 'want':45 'weren':15 'wouldn':5 'yes':1"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4774086"
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          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113000
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
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          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@floofloof@lemmy.ca"
        ]
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        -id: 113349
        -bodyTs: "'bigger':34 'car':16 'consum':25 'effici':28 'engin':32 'europ':6 'extra':27 'increas':19 'keep':18 'might':2 'optimist':11 'power':31 'rang':35 'seem':21 'size':17 'us':14 'want':23"
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          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113349
      }
    ]
    -id: 11788
    -titleTs: "'also':2 'tesla':3 'yes':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
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    +ranking: 1699719409
    +visibility: "visible             "
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699633009 {#1696
      date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
  +body: """
    But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
    \n
    **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
    \n
    [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
    \n
    [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
    \n
    > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
    \n
    According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
    \n
    > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
    \n
    **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 20
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1699718733 {#1620
    date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
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  +mentions: [
    "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
    "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
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  -id: 111756
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  +ranking: 0
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  +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767533"
  +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699923103 {#1613
    date: 2023-11-14 01:51:43.0 +01:00
  }
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  +"title": 111756
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
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Show voter details
16 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596
  +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1979 …}
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    +slug: "Yes-also-Teslas"
    +title: "Yes, also Teslas"
    +url: "https://media.mastodon.scot/mastodon-scot-public/media_attachments/files/111/386/122/832/701/352/original/adf530561fcd6b97.jpg"
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      date: 2023-11-15 19:58:09.0 +01:00
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    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@HonoraryMancunian@lemmy.world"
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          "@fiah@discuss.tchncs.de"
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        -id: 109758
        -bodyTs: "'car':14 'chang':17 'dead':19 'doesn':15 'go':3 'hit':24 'mind':11 'say':5 'without':4"
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          date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 109758
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
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        +body: """
          But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
          \n
          If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
          """
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          "@thantik@lemmy.world"
          "@cestvrai@lemm.ee"
          "@Buffaloaf@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 109960
        -bodyTs: "'also':9 'amount':31 'anyth':23 'bring':38 'bunch':12 'car':14 'cargo':3,36,40 'caus':34 'defens':47 'drive':10 'ev':27,49 'exist':5 'heavi':26 'increas':29 'make':42 'orthogon':21 'pollut':33 're':8 'sens':44 'ship':4,37,41 'switch':24 'total':20 'whether':6"
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          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 109960
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596}
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1629 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
          \n
          > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
          \n
          **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 111797
        -bodyTs: "'/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':20 '1':35 '850':36 'agre':87 'bad':99 'batteri':52 'better':91 'brake':8 'carbuzz.com':19 'carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':18 'chang':94 'climat':93 'comprehens':22 'drive':29 'dust':9 'edit':71 'effect':84 'electr':56 'emiss':17,31,43 'environ':102 'equival':41 'ev':89,96 'everyday':28 'exhaust':42 'expert':85 'fit':54 'found':25 'greater':38 'greenhous':83 'heavier':51 'increas':59 'made':47 'mass':61 'might':12 'much':5 'overwhelm':86 'pack':53 'particul':30,79 'place':65 'pollut':11 'say':76 'still':98 'strain':67 'studi':23 'tailpip':16 'time':37 'tire':10,33,70,78 'turn':64 'vehicl':57,60 'wors':6,14,48"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767705"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699952881 {#1611
          date: 2023-11-14 10:08:01.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111797
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
          \n
          [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 16
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 111836
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':18 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':25 '20':48 '50':56 'accord':38,49 'alreadi':28 'also':60 'anoth':19 'anyth':72 'articl':20,87 'bad':90 'big':80 'biggest':103 'brake':75 'car':37 'dozen':85 'dust':76 'electr':36 'even':3,11,97 'forb':22 'goodyear':51 'increas':42 'liter':84 'm':69,95 'mention':98 'michelin':40 'microplast':99 'near':78 'pollut':9,15,92 'problem':30,83 'research':63 'said':7 'see':71 'seen':67 'sourc':104 'switch':34 'tailpip':14 'tire':8,26,43,91,100 'valid':59 've':66 'wear':44 'wors':4,12 'www.forbes.com':24 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':23 'www.theguardian.com':17 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':16"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767893"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719642 {#1728
          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111836
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1741 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 11
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@corey389@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 112328
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770565"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699850987 {#1716
          date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112328
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2457 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
          \n
          *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
          \n
          edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2454 …}
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        -id: 112348
        -bodyTs: "'air':95 'also':87 'aren':23 'argu':20 'argument':84 'away':72 'bad':46 'better':25,112 'brake':10 'car':39,74 'chang':59 'climat':28,36,58 'contribut':100 'contributor':56 'could':117 'doubt':108 'dust':6,11 'edit':85 'effect':104 'emiss':44 'encourag':77 'ev':22 'greenhous':103 'harm':37 'haven':88 'ice':30,78,114 'idea':65 'inan':83 'land':47 'liter':16 'lot':33,51 'major':55 'matter':97 'move':71 'much':94 'one':18 'park':50 'particul':96 'pavement':49 'push':69 'seen':90 'signific':120 'sprawl':53 'still':111,118 'studi':91 'tailpip':43 'talk':3 'tire':5,99 'typo':15 'understand':63 'urban':52 'use':48,79 'wors':8"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770668"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699851345 {#2460
          date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112348
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2364 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
          \n
          Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
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        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727556 {#2360
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2372 …}
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        -id: 112408
        -bodyTs: "'actual':70 'air':21,30 'also':27,86 'away':91 'bad':67 'car':81,93 'care':54 'confus':7 'consequ':32 'drink':40 'effect':68 'environ':43,57 'etc':46 'ev':62,73,83 'everi':79 'everyon':52 'favor':60 'food':38 'ice':64 'increas':71 'leak':35 'link':16 'matter':51 'mean':9 'microplast':34 'need':76,87 'non':29 'non-air':28 'ocean':45 'pollut':22,31 're':2 'remain':80 'research':14 'right':3 'say':11 'small':50 'societi':90 'suppli':39 'tire':24 'transit':78,89 'use':74 'water':41 'wrote':5"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770950"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727556 {#2359
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112408
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727603 {#1909
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2387 …}
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        -id: 112413
        -bodyTs: "'argument':5 'declar':9"
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770963"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727603 {#1708
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112413
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 5
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699728041 {#2393
          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
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        -id: 112447
        -bodyTs: "'actual':16 'alway':28 'ask':14 'especi':22 'expect':8 'hot':23 'idea':21 'like':25 'm':2 'petrol':26 'reason':17 'superior':30 'support':19 'sure':4 'take':24 'unreason':12"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4771134"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699728041 {#1384
          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112447
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2022 …}
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        -id: 113000
        -bodyTs: "'300':39 'absurd':25 'also':42 'batteri':27 'benefit':55 'big':10 'car':13 'case':31 'commut':36 'consum':41 'daili':35 'demand':23 'didn':21 'effici':50 'even':32 'explod':17 'heavier':3 'high':26 'instead':48 'mile':40 'much':2 'negat':51 'peopl':20 'power':47 'problem':11 'rang':28 'seem':43 'size':14 'though':33 'transit':58 'unnecessari':46 'want':45 'weren':15 'wouldn':5 'yes':1"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4774086"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699736149 {#2032
          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113000
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@floofloof@lemmy.ca"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2144 …}
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        -id: 113349
        -bodyTs: "'bigger':34 'car':16 'consum':25 'effici':28 'engin':32 'europ':6 'extra':27 'increas':19 'keep':18 'might':2 'optimist':11 'power':31 'rang':35 'seem':21 'size':17 'us':14 'want':23"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 113349
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    ]
    -id: 11788
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      date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
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    But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
    \n
    **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
    \n
    [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
    \n
    [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
    \n
    > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
    \n
    According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
    \n
    > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
    \n
    **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
    """
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
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    +slug: "Yes-also-Teslas"
    +title: "Yes, also Teslas"
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
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          "@fiah@discuss.tchncs.de"
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          date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
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        +body: """
          But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
          \n
          If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
          """
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        +body: """
          But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
          \n
          **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
          \n
          [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
          \n
          [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
          \n
          > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
          \n
          According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
          """
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        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':47 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':121 '/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':64 '20':144 '50':152 'accord':114,134,145 'adopt':109 'air':13 'alreadi':124 'also':156,182 'america':106 'articl':26,41,61,118 'atlant':60 'away':190 'begin':107 'better':170 'bigger':10 'brake':18 'car':111,133,175,192 'clear':167 'danger':86 'deepen':84 'depend':193 'discuss':65 'dozen':24 'dust':5,19 'edit':20,164 'electr':110,132 'en':112 'ev':29,70,72,90,168,179,181 'everi':174 'exhaust':58 'forb':117 'generat':80 'get':103 'goodyear':147 'guardian':44 'heavier':77 'ice':37,172 'increas':3,68,138 'liter':23 'mass':113 'massiv':2 'michelin':136 'model':73 'much':9,50 'need':187 'new':71 'one':98 'particul':34,53,67,82 'pois':101 'pollut':16,35,54,95 'problem':96,126 'produc':31 'quicker':79 'research':159 'seen':163 'sourc':11 'still':186 'suck':183 'switch':130 'tailpip':57 'tend':74 'tire':4,33,66,94,122,139 'tire-pollut':93 'transit':189 'tyre':52 'valid':155 've':162 'water':15 'wear':140 'word':89 'wors':51,104 'www.forbes.com':120 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':119 'www.theatlantic.com':63 'www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':62 'www.theguardian.com':46 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':45"
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          date: 2023-11-14 01:51:43.0 +01:00
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630}
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
          \n
          [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
          """
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 111836
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':18 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':25 '20':48 '50':56 'accord':38,49 'alreadi':28 'also':60 'anoth':19 'anyth':72 'articl':20,87 'bad':90 'big':80 'biggest':103 'brake':75 'car':37 'dozen':85 'dust':76 'electr':36 'even':3,11,97 'forb':22 'goodyear':51 'increas':42 'liter':84 'm':69,95 'mention':98 'michelin':40 'microplast':99 'near':78 'pollut':9,15,92 'problem':30,83 'research':63 'said':7 'see':71 'seen':67 'sourc':104 'switch':34 'tailpip':14 'tire':8,26,43,91,100 'valid':59 've':66 'wear':44 'wors':4,12 'www.forbes.com':24 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':23 'www.theguardian.com':17 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':16"
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        +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770565"
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          date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +body: """
          I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
          \n
          *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
          \n
          edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2454 …}
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        -id: 112348
        -bodyTs: "'air':95 'also':87 'aren':23 'argu':20 'argument':84 'away':72 'bad':46 'better':25,112 'brake':10 'car':39,74 'chang':59 'climat':28,36,58 'contribut':100 'contributor':56 'could':117 'doubt':108 'dust':6,11 'edit':85 'effect':104 'emiss':44 'encourag':77 'ev':22 'greenhous':103 'harm':37 'haven':88 'ice':30,78,114 'idea':65 'inan':83 'land':47 'liter':16 'lot':33,51 'major':55 'matter':97 'move':71 'much':94 'one':18 'park':50 'particul':96 'pavement':49 'push':69 'seen':90 'signific':120 'sprawl':53 'still':111,118 'studi':91 'tailpip':43 'talk':3 'tire':5,99 'typo':15 'understand':63 'urban':52 'use':48,79 'wors':8"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770668"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699851345 {#2460
          date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726842 {#2453
          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112348
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2364 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
          \n
          Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727556 {#2360
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2372 …}
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        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2378 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2381 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1910 …}
        -id: 112408
        -bodyTs: "'actual':70 'air':21,30 'also':27,86 'away':91 'bad':67 'car':81,93 'care':54 'confus':7 'consequ':32 'drink':40 'effect':68 'environ':43,57 'etc':46 'ev':62,73,83 'everi':79 'everyon':52 'favor':60 'food':38 'ice':64 'increas':71 'leak':35 'link':16 'matter':51 'mean':9 'microplast':34 'need':76,87 'non':29 'non-air':28 'ocean':45 'pollut':22,31 're':2 'remain':80 'research':14 'right':3 'say':11 'small':50 'societi':90 'suppli':39 'tire':24 'transit':78,89 'use':74 'water':41 'wrote':5"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770950"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727556 {#2359
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112408
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727603 {#1909
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
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        -id: 112413
        -bodyTs: "'argument':5 'declar':9"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727603 {#1708
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112413
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 5
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
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        -id: 112447
        -bodyTs: "'actual':16 'alway':28 'ask':14 'especi':22 'expect':8 'hot':23 'idea':21 'like':25 'm':2 'petrol':26 'reason':17 'superior':30 'support':19 'sure':4 'take':24 'unreason':12"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4771134"
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112447
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 113000
        -bodyTs: "'300':39 'absurd':25 'also':42 'batteri':27 'benefit':55 'big':10 'car':13 'case':31 'commut':36 'consum':41 'daili':35 'demand':23 'didn':21 'effici':50 'even':32 'explod':17 'heavier':3 'high':26 'instead':48 'mile':40 'much':2 'negat':51 'peopl':20 'power':47 'problem':11 'rang':28 'seem':43 'size':14 'though':33 'transit':58 'unnecessari':46 'want':45 'weren':15 'wouldn':5 'yes':1"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4774086"
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          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113000
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699743269 {#2035
          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@floofloof@lemmy.ca"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2144 …}
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        -id: 113349
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113349
      }
    ]
    -id: 11788
    -titleTs: "'also':2 'tesla':3 'yes':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699633009 {#1696
      date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1629 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
  +body: """
    Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
    \n
    > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
    \n
    **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
    """
  +lang: "en"
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    "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
    "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
    "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1628 …}
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  -id: 111797
  -bodyTs: "'/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':20 '1':35 '850':36 'agre':87 'bad':99 'batteri':52 'better':91 'brake':8 'carbuzz.com':19 'carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':18 'chang':94 'climat':93 'comprehens':22 'drive':29 'dust':9 'edit':71 'effect':84 'electr':56 'emiss':17,31,43 'environ':102 'equival':41 'ev':89,96 'everyday':28 'exhaust':42 'expert':85 'fit':54 'found':25 'greater':38 'greenhous':83 'heavier':51 'increas':59 'made':47 'mass':61 'might':12 'much':5 'overwhelm':86 'pack':53 'particul':30,79 'place':65 'pollut':11 'say':76 'still':98 'strain':67 'studi':23 'tailpip':16 'time':37 'tire':10,33,70,78 'turn':64 'vehicl':57,60 'wors':6,14,48"
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    date: 2023-11-14 10:08:01.0 +01:00
  }
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  +"title": 111797
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
19 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
  +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1979 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3020 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3048 …}
    +slug: "Yes-also-Teslas"
    +title: "Yes, also Teslas"
    +url: "https://media.mastodon.scot/mastodon-scot-public/media_attachments/files/111/386/122/832/701/352/original/adf530561fcd6b97.jpg"
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    +lastActive: DateTime @1700074689 {#2016
      date: 2023-11-15 19:58:09.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3047 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3045 …}
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    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3072 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3089 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 12
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@HonoraryMancunian@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@fiah@discuss.tchncs.de"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1671 …}
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        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1678 …}
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        -id: 109758
        -bodyTs: "'car':14 'chang':17 'dead':19 'doesn':15 'go':3 'hit':24 'mind':11 'say':5 'without':4"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4754096"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699667552 {#1438
          date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 109758
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1550 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1561 …}
        +body: """
          But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
          \n
          If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@thantik@lemmy.world"
          "@cestvrai@lemm.ee"
          "@Buffaloaf@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1525 …}
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        -id: 109960
        -bodyTs: "'also':9 'amount':31 'anyth':23 'bring':38 'bunch':12 'car':14 'cargo':3,36,40 'caus':34 'defens':47 'drive':10 'ev':27,49 'exist':5 'heavi':26 'increas':29 'make':42 'orthogon':21 'pollut':33 're':8 'sens':44 'ship':4,37,41 'switch':24 'total':20 'whether':6"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4756392"
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          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 109960
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
          \n
          **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
          \n
          [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
          \n
          [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
          \n
          > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
          \n
          According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
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        -id: 111756
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':47 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':121 '/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':64 '20':144 '50':152 'accord':114,134,145 'adopt':109 'air':13 'alreadi':124 'also':156,182 'america':106 'articl':26,41,61,118 'atlant':60 'away':190 'begin':107 'better':170 'bigger':10 'brake':18 'car':111,133,175,192 'clear':167 'danger':86 'deepen':84 'depend':193 'discuss':65 'dozen':24 'dust':5,19 'edit':20,164 'electr':110,132 'en':112 'ev':29,70,72,90,168,179,181 'everi':174 'exhaust':58 'forb':117 'generat':80 'get':103 'goodyear':147 'guardian':44 'heavier':77 'ice':37,172 'increas':3,68,138 'liter':23 'mass':113 'massiv':2 'michelin':136 'model':73 'much':9,50 'need':187 'new':71 'one':98 'particul':34,53,67,82 'pois':101 'pollut':16,35,54,95 'problem':96,126 'produc':31 'quicker':79 'research':159 'seen':163 'sourc':11 'still':186 'suck':183 'switch':130 'tailpip':57 'tend':74 'tire':4,33,66,94,122,139 'tire-pollut':93 'transit':189 'tyre':52 'valid':155 've':162 'water':15 'wear':140 'word':89 'wors':51,104 'www.forbes.com':120 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':119 'www.theatlantic.com':63 'www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':62 'www.theguardian.com':46 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':45"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767533"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699923103 {#1613
          date: 2023-11-14 01:51:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699718733 {#1604
          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111756
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630}
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
          \n
          [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 16
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699719642 {#1726
          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1737 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1732 …}
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        -id: 111836
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':18 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':25 '20':48 '50':56 'accord':38,49 'alreadi':28 'also':60 'anoth':19 'anyth':72 'articl':20,87 'bad':90 'big':80 'biggest':103 'brake':75 'car':37 'dozen':85 'dust':76 'electr':36 'even':3,11,97 'forb':22 'goodyear':51 'increas':42 'liter':84 'm':69,95 'mention':98 'michelin':40 'microplast':99 'near':78 'pollut':9,15,92 'problem':30,83 'research':63 'said':7 'see':71 'seen':67 'sourc':104 'switch':34 'tailpip':14 'tire':8,26,43,91,100 'valid':59 've':66 'wear':44 'wors':4,12 'www.forbes.com':24 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':23 'www.theguardian.com':17 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':16"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767893"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719642 {#1728
          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111836
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1741 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 11
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@corey389@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
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        -id: 112328
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770565"
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          date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112328
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2457 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
          \n
          *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
          \n
          edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2454 …}
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        -id: 112348
        -bodyTs: "'air':95 'also':87 'aren':23 'argu':20 'argument':84 'away':72 'bad':46 'better':25,112 'brake':10 'car':39,74 'chang':59 'climat':28,36,58 'contribut':100 'contributor':56 'could':117 'doubt':108 'dust':6,11 'edit':85 'effect':104 'emiss':44 'encourag':77 'ev':22 'greenhous':103 'harm':37 'haven':88 'ice':30,78,114 'idea':65 'inan':83 'land':47 'liter':16 'lot':33,51 'major':55 'matter':97 'move':71 'much':94 'one':18 'park':50 'particul':96 'pavement':49 'push':69 'seen':90 'signific':120 'sprawl':53 'still':111,118 'studi':91 'tailpip':43 'talk':3 'tire':5,99 'typo':15 'understand':63 'urban':52 'use':48,79 'wors':8"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770668"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699851345 {#2460
          date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726842 {#2453
          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112348
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2364 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
          \n
          Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727556 {#2360
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2372 …}
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        -id: 112408
        -bodyTs: "'actual':70 'air':21,30 'also':27,86 'away':91 'bad':67 'car':81,93 'care':54 'confus':7 'consequ':32 'drink':40 'effect':68 'environ':43,57 'etc':46 'ev':62,73,83 'everi':79 'everyon':52 'favor':60 'food':38 'ice':64 'increas':71 'leak':35 'link':16 'matter':51 'mean':9 'microplast':34 'need':76,87 'non':29 'non-air':28 'ocean':45 'pollut':22,31 're':2 'remain':80 'research':14 'right':3 'say':11 'small':50 'societi':90 'suppli':39 'tire':24 'transit':78,89 'use':74 'water':41 'wrote':5"
        +ranking: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770950"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727556 {#2359
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112408
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727603 {#1909
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2387 …}
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        -id: 112413
        -bodyTs: "'argument':5 'declar':9"
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770963"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727603 {#1708
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112413
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 5
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699728041 {#2393
          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
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        -id: 112447
        -bodyTs: "'actual':16 'alway':28 'ask':14 'especi':22 'expect':8 'hot':23 'idea':21 'like':25 'm':2 'petrol':26 'reason':17 'superior':30 'support':19 'sure':4 'take':24 'unreason':12"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4771134"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699728041 {#1384
          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112447
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 113000
        -bodyTs: "'300':39 'absurd':25 'also':42 'batteri':27 'benefit':55 'big':10 'car':13 'case':31 'commut':36 'consum':41 'daili':35 'demand':23 'didn':21 'effici':50 'even':32 'explod':17 'heavier':3 'high':26 'instead':48 'mile':40 'much':2 'negat':51 'peopl':20 'power':47 'problem':11 'rang':28 'seem':43 'size':14 'though':33 'transit':58 'unnecessari':46 'want':45 'weren':15 'wouldn':5 'yes':1"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4774086"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699736149 {#2032
          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113000
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037 …}
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        +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
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      date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
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     …2
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  +body: """
    Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
    \n
    > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
    \n
    **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
    """
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    "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
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Show voter details
20 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
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    +slug: "Yes-also-Teslas"
    +title: "Yes, also Teslas"
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
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          date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
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        +body: """
          But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
          \n
          If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
          """
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        -id: 109960
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          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596
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        +body: """
          But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
          \n
          **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
          \n
          [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
          \n
          [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
          \n
          > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
          \n
          According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-14 01:51:43.0 +01:00
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630}
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736
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        +body: """
          It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
          \n
          [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
          """
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          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 111836
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
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          date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
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        +body: """
          I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
          \n
          *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
          \n
          edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
          """
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
        ]
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770668"
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          date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726842 {#2453
          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112348
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2364 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
          \n
          Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727556 {#2360
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2372 …}
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        -id: 112408
        -bodyTs: "'actual':70 'air':21,30 'also':27,86 'away':91 'bad':67 'car':81,93 'care':54 'confus':7 'consequ':32 'drink':40 'effect':68 'environ':43,57 'etc':46 'ev':62,73,83 'everi':79 'everyon':52 'favor':60 'food':38 'ice':64 'increas':71 'leak':35 'link':16 'matter':51 'mean':9 'microplast':34 'need':76,87 'non':29 'non-air':28 'ocean':45 'pollut':22,31 're':2 'remain':80 'research':14 'right':3 'say':11 'small':50 'societi':90 'suppli':39 'tire':24 'transit':78,89 'use':74 'water':41 'wrote':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770950"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727556 {#2359
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112408
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727603 {#1909
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
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        +tags: null
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
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        -id: 112413
        -bodyTs: "'argument':5 'declar':9"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770963"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727603 {#1708
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112413
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 112447
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        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4771134"
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112447
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 113000
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          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113000
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@floofloof@lemmy.ca"
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          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
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    ]
    -id: 11788
    -titleTs: "'also':2 'tesla':3 'yes':1"
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      date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1629 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
  +body: """
    Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
    \n
    > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
    \n
    **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
    """
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    "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
    "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
    "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
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  -id: 111797
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}
 
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736
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    +slug: "Yes-also-Teslas"
    +title: "Yes, also Teslas"
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    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
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        +body: """
          But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
          \n
          If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
          """
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          "@thantik@lemmy.world"
          "@cestvrai@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 109960
        -bodyTs: "'also':9 'amount':31 'anyth':23 'bring':38 'bunch':12 'car':14 'cargo':3,36,40 'caus':34 'defens':47 'drive':10 'ev':27,49 'exist':5 'heavi':26 'increas':29 'make':42 'orthogon':21 'pollut':33 're':8 'sens':44 'ship':4,37,41 'switch':24 'total':20 'whether':6"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699673663 {#1559
          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 109960
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
          \n
          **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
          \n
          [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
          \n
          [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
          \n
          > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
          \n
          According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 111756
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':47 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':121 '/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':64 '20':144 '50':152 'accord':114,134,145 'adopt':109 'air':13 'alreadi':124 'also':156,182 'america':106 'articl':26,41,61,118 'atlant':60 'away':190 'begin':107 'better':170 'bigger':10 'brake':18 'car':111,133,175,192 'clear':167 'danger':86 'deepen':84 'depend':193 'discuss':65 'dozen':24 'dust':5,19 'edit':20,164 'electr':110,132 'en':112 'ev':29,70,72,90,168,179,181 'everi':174 'exhaust':58 'forb':117 'generat':80 'get':103 'goodyear':147 'guardian':44 'heavier':77 'ice':37,172 'increas':3,68,138 'liter':23 'mass':113 'massiv':2 'michelin':136 'model':73 'much':9,50 'need':187 'new':71 'one':98 'particul':34,53,67,82 'pois':101 'pollut':16,35,54,95 'problem':96,126 'produc':31 'quicker':79 'research':159 'seen':163 'sourc':11 'still':186 'suck':183 'switch':130 'tailpip':57 'tend':74 'tire':4,33,66,94,122,139 'tire-pollut':93 'transit':189 'tyre':52 'valid':155 've':162 'water':15 'wear':140 'word':89 'wors':51,104 'www.forbes.com':120 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':119 'www.theatlantic.com':63 'www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':62 'www.theguardian.com':46 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':45"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767533"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699923103 {#1613
          date: 2023-11-14 01:51:43.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111756
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1629 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
          \n
          > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
          \n
          **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 11
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1628 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1599 …}
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        -id: 111797
        -bodyTs: "'/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':20 '1':35 '850':36 'agre':87 'bad':99 'batteri':52 'better':91 'brake':8 'carbuzz.com':19 'carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':18 'chang':94 'climat':93 'comprehens':22 'drive':29 'dust':9 'edit':71 'effect':84 'electr':56 'emiss':17,31,43 'environ':102 'equival':41 'ev':89,96 'everyday':28 'exhaust':42 'expert':85 'fit':54 'found':25 'greater':38 'greenhous':83 'heavier':51 'increas':59 'made':47 'mass':61 'might':12 'much':5 'overwhelm':86 'pack':53 'particul':30,79 'place':65 'pollut':11 'say':76 'still':98 'strain':67 'studi':23 'tailpip':16 'time':37 'tire':10,33,70,78 'turn':64 'vehicl':57,60 'wors':6,14,48"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767705"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699952881 {#1611
          date: 2023-11-14 10:08:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719173 {#1598
          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111797
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736}
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1741 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 11
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@corey389@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770565"
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          date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112328
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2457 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
          \n
          *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
          \n
          edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2454 …}
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        -id: 112348
        -bodyTs: "'air':95 'also':87 'aren':23 'argu':20 'argument':84 'away':72 'bad':46 'better':25,112 'brake':10 'car':39,74 'chang':59 'climat':28,36,58 'contribut':100 'contributor':56 'could':117 'doubt':108 'dust':6,11 'edit':85 'effect':104 'emiss':44 'encourag':77 'ev':22 'greenhous':103 'harm':37 'haven':88 'ice':30,78,114 'idea':65 'inan':83 'land':47 'liter':16 'lot':33,51 'major':55 'matter':97 'move':71 'much':94 'one':18 'park':50 'particul':96 'pavement':49 'push':69 'seen':90 'signific':120 'sprawl':53 'still':111,118 'studi':91 'tailpip':43 'talk':3 'tire':5,99 'typo':15 'understand':63 'urban':52 'use':48,79 'wors':8"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770668"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699851345 {#2460
          date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726842 {#2453
          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112348
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2364 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
          \n
          Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727556 {#2360
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2372 …}
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        -id: 112408
        -bodyTs: "'actual':70 'air':21,30 'also':27,86 'away':91 'bad':67 'car':81,93 'care':54 'confus':7 'consequ':32 'drink':40 'effect':68 'environ':43,57 'etc':46 'ev':62,73,83 'everi':79 'everyon':52 'favor':60 'food':38 'ice':64 'increas':71 'leak':35 'link':16 'matter':51 'mean':9 'microplast':34 'need':76,87 'non':29 'non-air':28 'ocean':45 'pollut':22,31 're':2 'remain':80 'research':14 'right':3 'say':11 'small':50 'societi':90 'suppli':39 'tire':24 'transit':78,89 'use':74 'water':41 'wrote':5"
        +ranking: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770950"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727556 {#2359
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112408
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727603 {#1909
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2387 …}
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        -id: 112413
        -bodyTs: "'argument':5 'declar':9"
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770963"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727603 {#1708
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112413
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 5
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699728041 {#2393
          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1385 …}
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        -id: 112447
        -bodyTs: "'actual':16 'alway':28 'ask':14 'especi':22 'expect':8 'hot':23 'idea':21 'like':25 'm':2 'petrol':26 'reason':17 'superior':30 'support':19 'sure':4 'take':24 'unreason':12"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4771134"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699728041 {#1384
          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112447
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2022 …}
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        -id: 113000
        -bodyTs: "'300':39 'absurd':25 'also':42 'batteri':27 'benefit':55 'big':10 'car':13 'case':31 'commut':36 'consum':41 'daili':35 'demand':23 'didn':21 'effici':50 'even':32 'explod':17 'heavier':3 'high':26 'instead':48 'mile':40 'much':2 'negat':51 'peopl':20 'power':47 'problem':11 'rang':28 'seem':43 'size':14 'though':33 'transit':58 'unnecessari':46 'want':45 'weren':15 'wouldn':5 'yes':1"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4774086"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699736149 {#2032
          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113000
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
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          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@floofloof@lemmy.ca"
        ]
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        -id: 113349
        -bodyTs: "'bigger':34 'car':16 'consum':25 'effici':28 'engin':32 'europ':6 'extra':27 'increas':19 'keep':18 'might':2 'optimist':11 'power':31 'rang':35 'seem':21 'size':17 'us':14 'want':23"
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    ]
    -id: 11788
    -titleTs: "'also':2 'tesla':3 'yes':1"
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699633009 {#1696
      date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
    }
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     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
  +body: """
    It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
    \n
    [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
    \n
    > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
    \n
    I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
    """
  +lang: "en"
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    date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
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    "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
    "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
    "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
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  -id: 111836
  -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':18 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':25 '20':48 '50':56 'accord':38,49 'alreadi':28 'also':60 'anoth':19 'anyth':72 'articl':20,87 'bad':90 'big':80 'biggest':103 'brake':75 'car':37 'dozen':85 'dust':76 'electr':36 'even':3,11,97 'forb':22 'goodyear':51 'increas':42 'liter':84 'm':69,95 'mention':98 'michelin':40 'microplast':99 'near':78 'pollut':9,15,92 'problem':30,83 'research':63 'said':7 'see':71 'seen':67 'sourc':104 'switch':34 'tailpip':14 'tire':8,26,43,91,100 'valid':59 've':66 'wear':44 'wors':4,12 'www.forbes.com':24 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':23 'www.theguardian.com':17 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':16"
  +ranking: 0
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    date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
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}
 
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Show voter details
23 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736
  +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1979 …}
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    +slug: "Yes-also-Teslas"
    +title: "Yes, also Teslas"
    +url: "https://media.mastodon.scot/mastodon-scot-public/media_attachments/files/111/386/122/832/701/352/original/adf530561fcd6b97.jpg"
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      date: 2023-11-15 19:58:09.0 +01:00
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    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
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          "@fiah@discuss.tchncs.de"
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        -id: 109758
        -bodyTs: "'car':14 'chang':17 'dead':19 'doesn':15 'go':3 'hit':24 'mind':11 'say':5 'without':4"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4754096"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699667552 {#1438
          date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 109758
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1550 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1561 …}
        +body: """
          But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
          \n
          If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
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          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@thantik@lemmy.world"
          "@cestvrai@lemm.ee"
          "@Buffaloaf@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1525 …}
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        -id: 109960
        -bodyTs: "'also':9 'amount':31 'anyth':23 'bring':38 'bunch':12 'car':14 'cargo':3,36,40 'caus':34 'defens':47 'drive':10 'ev':27,49 'exist':5 'heavi':26 'increas':29 'make':42 'orthogon':21 'pollut':33 're':8 'sens':44 'ship':4,37,41 'switch':24 'total':20 'whether':6"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4756392"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699673663 {#1559
          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 109960
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
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        +body: """
          But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
          \n
          **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
          \n
          [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
          \n
          [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
          \n
          > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
          \n
          According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
          """
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
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        -id: 111756
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':47 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':121 '/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':64 '20':144 '50':152 'accord':114,134,145 'adopt':109 'air':13 'alreadi':124 'also':156,182 'america':106 'articl':26,41,61,118 'atlant':60 'away':190 'begin':107 'better':170 'bigger':10 'brake':18 'car':111,133,175,192 'clear':167 'danger':86 'deepen':84 'depend':193 'discuss':65 'dozen':24 'dust':5,19 'edit':20,164 'electr':110,132 'en':112 'ev':29,70,72,90,168,179,181 'everi':174 'exhaust':58 'forb':117 'generat':80 'get':103 'goodyear':147 'guardian':44 'heavier':77 'ice':37,172 'increas':3,68,138 'liter':23 'mass':113 'massiv':2 'michelin':136 'model':73 'much':9,50 'need':187 'new':71 'one':98 'particul':34,53,67,82 'pois':101 'pollut':16,35,54,95 'problem':96,126 'produc':31 'quicker':79 'research':159 'seen':163 'sourc':11 'still':186 'suck':183 'switch':130 'tailpip':57 'tend':74 'tire':4,33,66,94,122,139 'tire-pollut':93 'transit':189 'tyre':52 'valid':155 've':162 'water':15 'wear':140 'word':89 'wors':51,104 'www.forbes.com':120 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':119 'www.theatlantic.com':63 'www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':62 'www.theguardian.com':46 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':45"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767533"
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          date: 2023-11-14 01:51:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699718733 {#1604
          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 111756
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1629 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
          \n
          > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
          \n
          **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1628 …}
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        -id: 111797
        -bodyTs: "'/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':20 '1':35 '850':36 'agre':87 'bad':99 'batteri':52 'better':91 'brake':8 'carbuzz.com':19 'carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':18 'chang':94 'climat':93 'comprehens':22 'drive':29 'dust':9 'edit':71 'effect':84 'electr':56 'emiss':17,31,43 'environ':102 'equival':41 'ev':89,96 'everyday':28 'exhaust':42 'expert':85 'fit':54 'found':25 'greater':38 'greenhous':83 'heavier':51 'increas':59 'made':47 'mass':61 'might':12 'much':5 'overwhelm':86 'pack':53 'particul':30,79 'place':65 'pollut':11 'say':76 'still':98 'strain':67 'studi':23 'tailpip':16 'time':37 'tire':10,33,70,78 'turn':64 'vehicl':57,60 'wors':6,14,48"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767705"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699952881 {#1611
          date: 2023-11-14 10:08:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719173 {#1598
          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 111797
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736}
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1741 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@corey389@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 112328
        -bodyTs: "'bad':38 'better':23 'biggest':46 'capita':9 'car':14,41 'caus':33 'compar':18 'damag':36 'distanc':6 'environment':35 'ev':2,50 'ice':20 'killer':47 'land':39 'major':34 'make':52 'may':51 'mode':15 'non':13 'non-car':12 'one':25,43 'other':30 'particular':26 'per':5,8 'problem':54 'still':32 'transport':17 'use':40 'way':27 'worldwid':48 'wors':4,28,55"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770565"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699850987 {#1716
          date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726562 {#1717
          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 112328
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2457 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
          \n
          *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
          \n
          edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
          """
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          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
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          date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112348
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2364 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
          \n
          Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
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        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770950"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727556 {#2359
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112408
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112413
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
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      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
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        +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
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          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 113000
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
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        +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
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    ]
    -id: 11788
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      date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
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     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
    \n
    [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
    \n
    > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
    \n
    I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
    """
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    "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
24 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736
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    +slug: "Yes-also-Teslas"
    +title: "Yes, also Teslas"
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    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
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        +body: """
          But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
          \n
          If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
          """
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        -id: 109960
        -bodyTs: "'also':9 'amount':31 'anyth':23 'bring':38 'bunch':12 'car':14 'cargo':3,36,40 'caus':34 'defens':47 'drive':10 'ev':27,49 'exist':5 'heavi':26 'increas':29 'make':42 'orthogon':21 'pollut':33 're':8 'sens':44 'ship':4,37,41 'switch':24 'total':20 'whether':6"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699673663 {#1559
          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 109960
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
          \n
          **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
          \n
          [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
          \n
          [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
          \n
          > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
          \n
          According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 111756
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':47 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':121 '/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':64 '20':144 '50':152 'accord':114,134,145 'adopt':109 'air':13 'alreadi':124 'also':156,182 'america':106 'articl':26,41,61,118 'atlant':60 'away':190 'begin':107 'better':170 'bigger':10 'brake':18 'car':111,133,175,192 'clear':167 'danger':86 'deepen':84 'depend':193 'discuss':65 'dozen':24 'dust':5,19 'edit':20,164 'electr':110,132 'en':112 'ev':29,70,72,90,168,179,181 'everi':174 'exhaust':58 'forb':117 'generat':80 'get':103 'goodyear':147 'guardian':44 'heavier':77 'ice':37,172 'increas':3,68,138 'liter':23 'mass':113 'massiv':2 'michelin':136 'model':73 'much':9,50 'need':187 'new':71 'one':98 'particul':34,53,67,82 'pois':101 'pollut':16,35,54,95 'problem':96,126 'produc':31 'quicker':79 'research':159 'seen':163 'sourc':11 'still':186 'suck':183 'switch':130 'tailpip':57 'tend':74 'tire':4,33,66,94,122,139 'tire-pollut':93 'transit':189 'tyre':52 'valid':155 've':162 'water':15 'wear':140 'word':89 'wors':51,104 'www.forbes.com':120 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':119 'www.theatlantic.com':63 'www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':62 'www.theguardian.com':46 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':45"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767533"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699923103 {#1613
          date: 2023-11-14 01:51:43.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111756
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1629 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
          \n
          > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
          \n
          **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 11
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1628 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1599 …}
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        -id: 111797
        -bodyTs: "'/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':20 '1':35 '850':36 'agre':87 'bad':99 'batteri':52 'better':91 'brake':8 'carbuzz.com':19 'carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':18 'chang':94 'climat':93 'comprehens':22 'drive':29 'dust':9 'edit':71 'effect':84 'electr':56 'emiss':17,31,43 'environ':102 'equival':41 'ev':89,96 'everyday':28 'exhaust':42 'expert':85 'fit':54 'found':25 'greater':38 'greenhous':83 'heavier':51 'increas':59 'made':47 'mass':61 'might':12 'much':5 'overwhelm':86 'pack':53 'particul':30,79 'place':65 'pollut':11 'say':76 'still':98 'strain':67 'studi':23 'tailpip':16 'time':37 'tire':10,33,70,78 'turn':64 'vehicl':57,60 'wors':6,14,48"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767705"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699952881 {#1611
          date: 2023-11-14 10:08:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719173 {#1598
          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111797
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736}
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1741 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 11
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@corey389@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770565"
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          date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112328
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2457 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
          \n
          *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
          \n
          edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2454 …}
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        -id: 112348
        -bodyTs: "'air':95 'also':87 'aren':23 'argu':20 'argument':84 'away':72 'bad':46 'better':25,112 'brake':10 'car':39,74 'chang':59 'climat':28,36,58 'contribut':100 'contributor':56 'could':117 'doubt':108 'dust':6,11 'edit':85 'effect':104 'emiss':44 'encourag':77 'ev':22 'greenhous':103 'harm':37 'haven':88 'ice':30,78,114 'idea':65 'inan':83 'land':47 'liter':16 'lot':33,51 'major':55 'matter':97 'move':71 'much':94 'one':18 'park':50 'particul':96 'pavement':49 'push':69 'seen':90 'signific':120 'sprawl':53 'still':111,118 'studi':91 'tailpip':43 'talk':3 'tire':5,99 'typo':15 'understand':63 'urban':52 'use':48,79 'wors':8"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770668"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699851345 {#2460
          date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726842 {#2453
          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112348
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2364 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
          \n
          Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727556 {#2360
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2372 …}
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        -id: 112408
        -bodyTs: "'actual':70 'air':21,30 'also':27,86 'away':91 'bad':67 'car':81,93 'care':54 'confus':7 'consequ':32 'drink':40 'effect':68 'environ':43,57 'etc':46 'ev':62,73,83 'everi':79 'everyon':52 'favor':60 'food':38 'ice':64 'increas':71 'leak':35 'link':16 'matter':51 'mean':9 'microplast':34 'need':76,87 'non':29 'non-air':28 'ocean':45 'pollut':22,31 're':2 'remain':80 'research':14 'right':3 'say':11 'small':50 'societi':90 'suppli':39 'tire':24 'transit':78,89 'use':74 'water':41 'wrote':5"
        +ranking: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770950"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727556 {#2359
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112408
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727603 {#1909
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2387 …}
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        -id: 112413
        -bodyTs: "'argument':5 'declar':9"
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770963"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727603 {#1708
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112413
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 5
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699728041 {#2393
          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1385 …}
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        -id: 112447
        -bodyTs: "'actual':16 'alway':28 'ask':14 'especi':22 'expect':8 'hot':23 'idea':21 'like':25 'm':2 'petrol':26 'reason':17 'superior':30 'support':19 'sure':4 'take':24 'unreason':12"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4771134"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699728041 {#1384
          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112447
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2022 …}
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        -id: 113000
        -bodyTs: "'300':39 'absurd':25 'also':42 'batteri':27 'benefit':55 'big':10 'car':13 'case':31 'commut':36 'consum':41 'daili':35 'demand':23 'didn':21 'effici':50 'even':32 'explod':17 'heavier':3 'high':26 'instead':48 'mile':40 'much':2 'negat':51 'peopl':20 'power':47 'problem':11 'rang':28 'seem':43 'size':14 'though':33 'transit':58 'unnecessari':46 'want':45 'weren':15 'wouldn':5 'yes':1"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4774086"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699736149 {#2032
          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113000
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
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        +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
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      date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
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  +body: """
    It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
    \n
    [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
    \n
    > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
    \n
    I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
    """
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
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    +slug: "Yes-also-Teslas"
    +title: "Yes, also Teslas"
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    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
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          "@fiah@discuss.tchncs.de"
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        -id: 109758
        -bodyTs: "'car':14 'chang':17 'dead':19 'doesn':15 'go':3 'hit':24 'mind':11 'say':5 'without':4"
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          date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
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        +body: """
          But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
          \n
          If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596
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        +body: """
          But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
          \n
          **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
          \n
          [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
          \n
          [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
          \n
          > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
          \n
          According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
          """
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
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        -id: 111756
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':47 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':121 '/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':64 '20':144 '50':152 'accord':114,134,145 'adopt':109 'air':13 'alreadi':124 'also':156,182 'america':106 'articl':26,41,61,118 'atlant':60 'away':190 'begin':107 'better':170 'bigger':10 'brake':18 'car':111,133,175,192 'clear':167 'danger':86 'deepen':84 'depend':193 'discuss':65 'dozen':24 'dust':5,19 'edit':20,164 'electr':110,132 'en':112 'ev':29,70,72,90,168,179,181 'everi':174 'exhaust':58 'forb':117 'generat':80 'get':103 'goodyear':147 'guardian':44 'heavier':77 'ice':37,172 'increas':3,68,138 'liter':23 'mass':113 'massiv':2 'michelin':136 'model':73 'much':9,50 'need':187 'new':71 'one':98 'particul':34,53,67,82 'pois':101 'pollut':16,35,54,95 'problem':96,126 'produc':31 'quicker':79 'research':159 'seen':163 'sourc':11 'still':186 'suck':183 'switch':130 'tailpip':57 'tend':74 'tire':4,33,66,94,122,139 'tire-pollut':93 'transit':189 'tyre':52 'valid':155 've':162 'water':15 'wear':140 'word':89 'wors':51,104 'www.forbes.com':120 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':119 'www.theatlantic.com':63 'www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':62 'www.theguardian.com':46 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':45"
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          date: 2023-11-14 01:51:43.0 +01:00
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
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        +body: """
          Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
          \n
          > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
          \n
          **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
          """
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 111797
        -bodyTs: "'/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':20 '1':35 '850':36 'agre':87 'bad':99 'batteri':52 'better':91 'brake':8 'carbuzz.com':19 'carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':18 'chang':94 'climat':93 'comprehens':22 'drive':29 'dust':9 'edit':71 'effect':84 'electr':56 'emiss':17,31,43 'environ':102 'equival':41 'ev':89,96 'everyday':28 'exhaust':42 'expert':85 'fit':54 'found':25 'greater':38 'greenhous':83 'heavier':51 'increas':59 'made':47 'mass':61 'might':12 'much':5 'overwhelm':86 'pack':53 'particul':30,79 'place':65 'pollut':11 'say':76 'still':98 'strain':67 'studi':23 'tailpip':16 'time':37 'tire':10,33,70,78 'turn':64 'vehicl':57,60 'wors':6,14,48"
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          date: 2023-11-14 10:08:01.0 +01:00
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736
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        +body: """
          It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
          \n
          [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
          """
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 111836
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':18 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':25 '20':48 '50':56 'accord':38,49 'alreadi':28 'also':60 'anoth':19 'anyth':72 'articl':20,87 'bad':90 'big':80 'biggest':103 'brake':75 'car':37 'dozen':85 'dust':76 'electr':36 'even':3,11,97 'forb':22 'goodyear':51 'increas':42 'liter':84 'm':69,95 'mention':98 'michelin':40 'microplast':99 'near':78 'pollut':9,15,92 'problem':30,83 'research':63 'said':7 'see':71 'seen':67 'sourc':104 'switch':34 'tailpip':14 'tire':8,26,43,91,100 'valid':59 've':66 'wear':44 'wors':4,12 'www.forbes.com':24 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':23 'www.theguardian.com':17 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':16"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767893"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719642 {#1728
          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111836
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739}
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2457 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
          \n
          *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
          \n
          edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
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        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2454 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2459 …}
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        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2467 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2371 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2370 …}
        -id: 112348
        -bodyTs: "'air':95 'also':87 'aren':23 'argu':20 'argument':84 'away':72 'bad':46 'better':25,112 'brake':10 'car':39,74 'chang':59 'climat':28,36,58 'contribut':100 'contributor':56 'could':117 'doubt':108 'dust':6,11 'edit':85 'effect':104 'emiss':44 'encourag':77 'ev':22 'greenhous':103 'harm':37 'haven':88 'ice':30,78,114 'idea':65 'inan':83 'land':47 'liter':16 'lot':33,51 'major':55 'matter':97 'move':71 'much':94 'one':18 'park':50 'particul':96 'pavement':49 'push':69 'seen':90 'signific':120 'sprawl':53 'still':111,118 'studi':91 'tailpip':43 'talk':3 'tire':5,99 'typo':15 'understand':63 'urban':52 'use':48,79 'wors':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770668"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699851345 {#2460
          date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726842 {#2453
          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112348
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2364 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
          \n
          Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727556 {#2360
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2372 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2386 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2385 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2378 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2381 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1910 …}
        -id: 112408
        -bodyTs: "'actual':70 'air':21,30 'also':27,86 'away':91 'bad':67 'car':81,93 'care':54 'confus':7 'consequ':32 'drink':40 'effect':68 'environ':43,57 'etc':46 'ev':62,73,83 'everi':79 'everyon':52 'favor':60 'food':38 'ice':64 'increas':71 'leak':35 'link':16 'matter':51 'mean':9 'microplast':34 'need':76,87 'non':29 'non-air':28 'ocean':45 'pollut':22,31 're':2 'remain':80 'research':14 'right':3 'say':11 'small':50 'societi':90 'suppli':39 'tire':24 'transit':78,89 'use':74 'water':41 'wrote':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770950"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727556 {#2359
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112408
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727603 {#1909
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
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        +tags: null
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
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        -id: 112413
        -bodyTs: "'argument':5 'declar':9"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770963"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727603 {#1708
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112413
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 5
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699728041 {#2393
          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1385 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1401 …}
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        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2019 …}
        -id: 112447
        -bodyTs: "'actual':16 'alway':28 'ask':14 'especi':22 'expect':8 'hot':23 'idea':21 'like':25 'm':2 'petrol':26 'reason':17 'superior':30 'support':19 'sure':4 'take':24 'unreason':12"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4771134"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699728041 {#1384
          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112447
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2022 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2025 …}
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        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2013 …}
        -id: 113000
        -bodyTs: "'300':39 'absurd':25 'also':42 'batteri':27 'benefit':55 'big':10 'car':13 'case':31 'commut':36 'consum':41 'daili':35 'demand':23 'didn':21 'effici':50 'even':32 'explod':17 'heavier':3 'high':26 'instead':48 'mile':40 'much':2 'negat':51 'peopl':20 'power':47 'problem':11 'rang':28 'seem':43 'size':14 'though':33 'transit':58 'unnecessari':46 'want':45 'weren':15 'wouldn':5 'yes':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4774086"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699736149 {#2032
          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113000
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699743269 {#2035
          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@floofloof@lemmy.ca"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2144 …}
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        -id: 113349
        -bodyTs: "'bigger':34 'car':16 'consum':25 'effici':28 'engin':32 'europ':6 'extra':27 'increas':19 'keep':18 'might':2 'optimist':11 'power':31 'rang':35 'seem':21 'size':17 'us':14 'want':23"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4776307"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699743269 {#2031
          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113349
      }
    ]
    -id: 11788
    -titleTs: "'also':2 'tesla':3 'yes':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
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    +ranking: 1699719409
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://mander.xyz/post/6008655"
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699633009 {#1696
      date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1741 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
  +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 11
  +score: 0
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    date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
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  +mentions: [
    "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
    "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
    "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
    "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
    "@corey389@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
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  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2458 …}
  -id: 112328
  -bodyTs: "'bad':38 'better':23 'biggest':46 'capita':9 'car':14,41 'caus':33 'compar':18 'damag':36 'distanc':6 'environment':35 'ev':2,50 'ice':20 'killer':47 'land':39 'major':34 'make':52 'may':51 'mode':15 'non':13 'non-car':12 'one':25,43 'other':30 'particular':26 'per':5,8 'problem':54 'still':32 'transport':17 'use':40 'way':27 'worldwid':48 'wors':4,28,55"
  +ranking: 0
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  +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770565"
  +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699850987 {#1716
    date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
  }
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726562 {#1717
    date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 112328
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
27 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
  +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1979 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3020 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3048 …}
    +slug: "Yes-also-Teslas"
    +title: "Yes, also Teslas"
    +url: "https://media.mastodon.scot/mastodon-scot-public/media_attachments/files/111/386/122/832/701/352/original/adf530561fcd6b97.jpg"
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    +lastActive: DateTime @1700074689 {#2016
      date: 2023-11-15 19:58:09.0 +01:00
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3047 …}
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    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3089 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 12
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@HonoraryMancunian@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@fiah@discuss.tchncs.de"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1671 …}
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        -id: 109758
        -bodyTs: "'car':14 'chang':17 'dead':19 'doesn':15 'go':3 'hit':24 'mind':11 'say':5 'without':4"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4754096"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699667552 {#1438
          date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 109758
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1550 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1561 …}
        +body: """
          But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
          \n
          If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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        +lastActive: DateTime @1699673663 {#1579
          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@thantik@lemmy.world"
          "@cestvrai@lemm.ee"
          "@Buffaloaf@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 109960
        -bodyTs: "'also':9 'amount':31 'anyth':23 'bring':38 'bunch':12 'car':14 'cargo':3,36,40 'caus':34 'defens':47 'drive':10 'ev':27,49 'exist':5 'heavi':26 'increas':29 'make':42 'orthogon':21 'pollut':33 're':8 'sens':44 'ship':4,37,41 'switch':24 'total':20 'whether':6"
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          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 109960
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
          \n
          **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
          \n
          [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
          \n
          [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
          \n
          > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
          \n
          According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 111756
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':47 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':121 '/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':64 '20':144 '50':152 'accord':114,134,145 'adopt':109 'air':13 'alreadi':124 'also':156,182 'america':106 'articl':26,41,61,118 'atlant':60 'away':190 'begin':107 'better':170 'bigger':10 'brake':18 'car':111,133,175,192 'clear':167 'danger':86 'deepen':84 'depend':193 'discuss':65 'dozen':24 'dust':5,19 'edit':20,164 'electr':110,132 'en':112 'ev':29,70,72,90,168,179,181 'everi':174 'exhaust':58 'forb':117 'generat':80 'get':103 'goodyear':147 'guardian':44 'heavier':77 'ice':37,172 'increas':3,68,138 'liter':23 'mass':113 'massiv':2 'michelin':136 'model':73 'much':9,50 'need':187 'new':71 'one':98 'particul':34,53,67,82 'pois':101 'pollut':16,35,54,95 'problem':96,126 'produc':31 'quicker':79 'research':159 'seen':163 'sourc':11 'still':186 'suck':183 'switch':130 'tailpip':57 'tend':74 'tire':4,33,66,94,122,139 'tire-pollut':93 'transit':189 'tyre':52 'valid':155 've':162 'water':15 'wear':140 'word':89 'wors':51,104 'www.forbes.com':120 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':119 'www.theatlantic.com':63 'www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':62 'www.theguardian.com':46 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':45"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767533"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699923103 {#1613
          date: 2023-11-14 01:51:43.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111756
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
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        +body: """
          Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
          \n
          > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
          \n
          **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1628 …}
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        -id: 111797
        -bodyTs: "'/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':20 '1':35 '850':36 'agre':87 'bad':99 'batteri':52 'better':91 'brake':8 'carbuzz.com':19 'carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':18 'chang':94 'climat':93 'comprehens':22 'drive':29 'dust':9 'edit':71 'effect':84 'electr':56 'emiss':17,31,43 'environ':102 'equival':41 'ev':89,96 'everyday':28 'exhaust':42 'expert':85 'fit':54 'found':25 'greater':38 'greenhous':83 'heavier':51 'increas':59 'made':47 'mass':61 'might':12 'much':5 'overwhelm':86 'pack':53 'particul':30,79 'place':65 'pollut':11 'say':76 'still':98 'strain':67 'studi':23 'tailpip':16 'time':37 'tire':10,33,70,78 'turn':64 'vehicl':57,60 'wors':6,14,48"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767705"
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          date: 2023-11-14 10:08:01.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111797
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
          \n
          [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699719642 {#1726
          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 111836
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':18 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':25 '20':48 '50':56 'accord':38,49 'alreadi':28 'also':60 'anoth':19 'anyth':72 'articl':20,87 'bad':90 'big':80 'biggest':103 'brake':75 'car':37 'dozen':85 'dust':76 'electr':36 'even':3,11,97 'forb':22 'goodyear':51 'increas':42 'liter':84 'm':69,95 'mention':98 'michelin':40 'microplast':99 'near':78 'pollut':9,15,92 'problem':30,83 'research':63 'said':7 'see':71 'seen':67 'sourc':104 'switch':34 'tailpip':14 'tire':8,26,43,91,100 'valid':59 've':66 'wear':44 'wors':4,12 'www.forbes.com':24 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':23 'www.theguardian.com':17 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':16"
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111836
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739}
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
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        +body: """
          I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
          \n
          *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
          \n
          edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
        ]
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        -id: 112348
        -bodyTs: "'air':95 'also':87 'aren':23 'argu':20 'argument':84 'away':72 'bad':46 'better':25,112 'brake':10 'car':39,74 'chang':59 'climat':28,36,58 'contribut':100 'contributor':56 'could':117 'doubt':108 'dust':6,11 'edit':85 'effect':104 'emiss':44 'encourag':77 'ev':22 'greenhous':103 'harm':37 'haven':88 'ice':30,78,114 'idea':65 'inan':83 'land':47 'liter':16 'lot':33,51 'major':55 'matter':97 'move':71 'much':94 'one':18 'park':50 'particul':96 'pavement':49 'push':69 'seen':90 'signific':120 'sprawl':53 'still':111,118 'studi':91 'tailpip':43 'talk':3 'tire':5,99 'typo':15 'understand':63 'urban':52 'use':48,79 'wors':8"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770668"
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          date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112348
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
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        +body: """
          You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
          \n
          Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2372 …}
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        -id: 112408
        -bodyTs: "'actual':70 'air':21,30 'also':27,86 'away':91 'bad':67 'car':81,93 'care':54 'confus':7 'consequ':32 'drink':40 'effect':68 'environ':43,57 'etc':46 'ev':62,73,83 'everi':79 'everyon':52 'favor':60 'food':38 'ice':64 'increas':71 'leak':35 'link':16 'matter':51 'mean':9 'microplast':34 'need':76,87 'non':29 'non-air':28 'ocean':45 'pollut':22,31 're':2 'remain':80 'research':14 'right':3 'say':11 'small':50 'societi':90 'suppli':39 'tire':24 'transit':78,89 'use':74 'water':41 'wrote':5"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770950"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727556 {#2359
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112408
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727603 {#1909
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
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        -id: 112413
        -bodyTs: "'argument':5 'declar':9"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770963"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727603 {#1708
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112413
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 5
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
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        -id: 112447
        -bodyTs: "'actual':16 'alway':28 'ask':14 'especi':22 'expect':8 'hot':23 'idea':21 'like':25 'm':2 'petrol':26 'reason':17 'superior':30 'support':19 'sure':4 'take':24 'unreason':12"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4771134"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699728041 {#1384
          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112447
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
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          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 113000
        -bodyTs: "'300':39 'absurd':25 'also':42 'batteri':27 'benefit':55 'big':10 'car':13 'case':31 'commut':36 'consum':41 'daili':35 'demand':23 'didn':21 'effici':50 'even':32 'explod':17 'heavier':3 'high':26 'instead':48 'mile':40 'much':2 'negat':51 'peopl':20 'power':47 'problem':11 'rang':28 'seem':43 'size':14 'though':33 'transit':58 'unnecessari':46 'want':45 'weren':15 'wouldn':5 'yes':1"
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        +"title": 113000
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
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          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@floofloof@lemmy.ca"
        ]
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        -id: 113349
        -bodyTs: "'bigger':34 'car':16 'consum':25 'effici':28 'engin':32 'europ':6 'extra':27 'increas':19 'keep':18 'might':2 'optimist':11 'power':31 'rang':35 'seem':21 'size':17 'us':14 'want':23"
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    ]
    -id: 11788
    -titleTs: "'also':2 'tesla':3 'yes':1"
    -bodyTs: null
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    +upVotes: 0
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699633009 {#1696
      date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: null
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  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
  +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
  +lang: "en"
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    "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
    "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
    "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
    "@corey389@lemmy.world"
  ]
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  -id: 112328
  -bodyTs: "'bad':38 'better':23 'biggest':46 'capita':9 'car':14,41 'caus':33 'compar':18 'damag':36 'distanc':6 'environment':35 'ev':2,50 'ice':20 'killer':47 'land':39 'major':34 'make':52 'may':51 'mode':15 'non':13 'non-car':12 'one':25,43 'other':30 'particular':26 'per':5,8 'problem':54 'still':32 'transport':17 'use':40 'way':27 'worldwid':48 'wors':4,28,55"
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    date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
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    date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
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  +"title": 112328
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
28 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
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    +slug: "Yes-also-Teslas"
    +title: "Yes, also Teslas"
    +url: "https://media.mastodon.scot/mastodon-scot-public/media_attachments/files/111/386/122/832/701/352/original/adf530561fcd6b97.jpg"
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    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
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        -id: 109758
        -bodyTs: "'car':14 'chang':17 'dead':19 'doesn':15 'go':3 'hit':24 'mind':11 'say':5 'without':4"
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          date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
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        +body: """
          But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
          \n
          If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
          """
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          "@thantik@lemmy.world"
          "@cestvrai@lemm.ee"
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        -id: 109960
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          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 109960
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596
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        +body: """
          But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
          \n
          **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
          \n
          [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
          \n
          [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
          \n
          > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
          \n
          According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
          """
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
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        -id: 111756
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':47 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':121 '/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':64 '20':144 '50':152 'accord':114,134,145 'adopt':109 'air':13 'alreadi':124 'also':156,182 'america':106 'articl':26,41,61,118 'atlant':60 'away':190 'begin':107 'better':170 'bigger':10 'brake':18 'car':111,133,175,192 'clear':167 'danger':86 'deepen':84 'depend':193 'discuss':65 'dozen':24 'dust':5,19 'edit':20,164 'electr':110,132 'en':112 'ev':29,70,72,90,168,179,181 'everi':174 'exhaust':58 'forb':117 'generat':80 'get':103 'goodyear':147 'guardian':44 'heavier':77 'ice':37,172 'increas':3,68,138 'liter':23 'mass':113 'massiv':2 'michelin':136 'model':73 'much':9,50 'need':187 'new':71 'one':98 'particul':34,53,67,82 'pois':101 'pollut':16,35,54,95 'problem':96,126 'produc':31 'quicker':79 'research':159 'seen':163 'sourc':11 'still':186 'suck':183 'switch':130 'tailpip':57 'tend':74 'tire':4,33,66,94,122,139 'tire-pollut':93 'transit':189 'tyre':52 'valid':155 've':162 'water':15 'wear':140 'word':89 'wors':51,104 'www.forbes.com':120 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':119 'www.theatlantic.com':63 'www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':62 'www.theguardian.com':46 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':45"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767533"
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          date: 2023-11-14 01:51:43.0 +01:00
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1629 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
          \n
          > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
          \n
          **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
          """
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1628 …}
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        -id: 111797
        -bodyTs: "'/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':20 '1':35 '850':36 'agre':87 'bad':99 'batteri':52 'better':91 'brake':8 'carbuzz.com':19 'carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':18 'chang':94 'climat':93 'comprehens':22 'drive':29 'dust':9 'edit':71 'effect':84 'electr':56 'emiss':17,31,43 'environ':102 'equival':41 'ev':89,96 'everyday':28 'exhaust':42 'expert':85 'fit':54 'found':25 'greater':38 'greenhous':83 'heavier':51 'increas':59 'made':47 'mass':61 'might':12 'much':5 'overwhelm':86 'pack':53 'particul':30,79 'place':65 'pollut':11 'say':76 'still':98 'strain':67 'studi':23 'tailpip':16 'time':37 'tire':10,33,70,78 'turn':64 'vehicl':57,60 'wors':6,14,48"
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          date: 2023-11-14 10:08:01.0 +01:00
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
          \n
          [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
          """
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1737 …}
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        -id: 111836
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':18 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':25 '20':48 '50':56 'accord':38,49 'alreadi':28 'also':60 'anoth':19 'anyth':72 'articl':20,87 'bad':90 'big':80 'biggest':103 'brake':75 'car':37 'dozen':85 'dust':76 'electr':36 'even':3,11,97 'forb':22 'goodyear':51 'increas':42 'liter':84 'm':69,95 'mention':98 'michelin':40 'microplast':99 'near':78 'pollut':9,15,92 'problem':30,83 'research':63 'said':7 'see':71 'seen':67 'sourc':104 'switch':34 'tailpip':14 'tire':8,26,43,91,100 'valid':59 've':66 'wear':44 'wors':4,12 'www.forbes.com':24 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':23 'www.theguardian.com':17 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':16"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767893"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719642 {#1728
          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111836
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739}
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2457 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
          \n
          *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
          \n
          edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2454 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2459 …}
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        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2467 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2371 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2370 …}
        -id: 112348
        -bodyTs: "'air':95 'also':87 'aren':23 'argu':20 'argument':84 'away':72 'bad':46 'better':25,112 'brake':10 'car':39,74 'chang':59 'climat':28,36,58 'contribut':100 'contributor':56 'could':117 'doubt':108 'dust':6,11 'edit':85 'effect':104 'emiss':44 'encourag':77 'ev':22 'greenhous':103 'harm':37 'haven':88 'ice':30,78,114 'idea':65 'inan':83 'land':47 'liter':16 'lot':33,51 'major':55 'matter':97 'move':71 'much':94 'one':18 'park':50 'particul':96 'pavement':49 'push':69 'seen':90 'signific':120 'sprawl':53 'still':111,118 'studi':91 'tailpip':43 'talk':3 'tire':5,99 'typo':15 'understand':63 'urban':52 'use':48,79 'wors':8"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770668"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699851345 {#2460
          date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726842 {#2453
          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112348
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2364 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
          \n
          Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727556 {#2360
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2372 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2386 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2385 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2378 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2381 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1910 …}
        -id: 112408
        -bodyTs: "'actual':70 'air':21,30 'also':27,86 'away':91 'bad':67 'car':81,93 'care':54 'confus':7 'consequ':32 'drink':40 'effect':68 'environ':43,57 'etc':46 'ev':62,73,83 'everi':79 'everyon':52 'favor':60 'food':38 'ice':64 'increas':71 'leak':35 'link':16 'matter':51 'mean':9 'microplast':34 'need':76,87 'non':29 'non-air':28 'ocean':45 'pollut':22,31 're':2 'remain':80 'research':14 'right':3 'say':11 'small':50 'societi':90 'suppli':39 'tire':24 'transit':78,89 'use':74 'water':41 'wrote':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770950"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727556 {#2359
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112408
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727603 {#1909
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
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        +tags: null
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
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        -id: 112413
        -bodyTs: "'argument':5 'declar':9"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727603 {#1708
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112413
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 5
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
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        -id: 112447
        -bodyTs: "'actual':16 'alway':28 'ask':14 'especi':22 'expect':8 'hot':23 'idea':21 'like':25 'm':2 'petrol':26 'reason':17 'superior':30 'support':19 'sure':4 'take':24 'unreason':12"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4771134"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699728041 {#1384
          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112447
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 113000
        -bodyTs: "'300':39 'absurd':25 'also':42 'batteri':27 'benefit':55 'big':10 'car':13 'case':31 'commut':36 'consum':41 'daili':35 'demand':23 'didn':21 'effici':50 'even':32 'explod':17 'heavier':3 'high':26 'instead':48 'mile':40 'much':2 'negat':51 'peopl':20 'power':47 'problem':11 'rang':28 'seem':43 'size':14 'though':33 'transit':58 'unnecessari':46 'want':45 'weren':15 'wouldn':5 'yes':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4774086"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699736149 {#2032
          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113000
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@floofloof@lemmy.ca"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2144 …}
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        -id: 113349
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        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4776307"
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          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 113349
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    ]
    -id: 11788
    -titleTs: "'also':2 'tesla':3 'yes':1"
    -bodyTs: null
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    +upVotes: 0
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699633009 {#1696
      date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1741 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
  +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
  +lang: "en"
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    date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
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    "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
    "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
    "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
    "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
    "@corey389@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
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  -id: 112328
  -bodyTs: "'bad':38 'better':23 'biggest':46 'capita':9 'car':14,41 'caus':33 'compar':18 'damag':36 'distanc':6 'environment':35 'ev':2,50 'ice':20 'killer':47 'land':39 'major':34 'make':52 'may':51 'mode':15 'non':13 'non-car':12 'one':25,43 'other':30 'particular':26 'per':5,8 'problem':54 'still':32 'transport':17 'use':40 'way':27 'worldwid':48 'wors':4,28,55"
  +ranking: 0
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    date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
  }
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    date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 112328
}
 
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30 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
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    +slug: "Yes-also-Teslas"
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
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        +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
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          "@HonoraryMancunian@lemmy.world"
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          "@fiah@discuss.tchncs.de"
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        -id: 109758
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        +"title": 109758
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1550 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1561 …}
        +body: """
          But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
          \n
          If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
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          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@thantik@lemmy.world"
          "@cestvrai@lemm.ee"
          "@Buffaloaf@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 109960
        -bodyTs: "'also':9 'amount':31 'anyth':23 'bring':38 'bunch':12 'car':14 'cargo':3,36,40 'caus':34 'defens':47 'drive':10 'ev':27,49 'exist':5 'heavi':26 'increas':29 'make':42 'orthogon':21 'pollut':33 're':8 'sens':44 'ship':4,37,41 'switch':24 'total':20 'whether':6"
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          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 109960
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
          \n
          **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
          \n
          [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
          \n
          [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
          \n
          > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
          \n
          According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 111756
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':47 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':121 '/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':64 '20':144 '50':152 'accord':114,134,145 'adopt':109 'air':13 'alreadi':124 'also':156,182 'america':106 'articl':26,41,61,118 'atlant':60 'away':190 'begin':107 'better':170 'bigger':10 'brake':18 'car':111,133,175,192 'clear':167 'danger':86 'deepen':84 'depend':193 'discuss':65 'dozen':24 'dust':5,19 'edit':20,164 'electr':110,132 'en':112 'ev':29,70,72,90,168,179,181 'everi':174 'exhaust':58 'forb':117 'generat':80 'get':103 'goodyear':147 'guardian':44 'heavier':77 'ice':37,172 'increas':3,68,138 'liter':23 'mass':113 'massiv':2 'michelin':136 'model':73 'much':9,50 'need':187 'new':71 'one':98 'particul':34,53,67,82 'pois':101 'pollut':16,35,54,95 'problem':96,126 'produc':31 'quicker':79 'research':159 'seen':163 'sourc':11 'still':186 'suck':183 'switch':130 'tailpip':57 'tend':74 'tire':4,33,66,94,122,139 'tire-pollut':93 'transit':189 'tyre':52 'valid':155 've':162 'water':15 'wear':140 'word':89 'wors':51,104 'www.forbes.com':120 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':119 'www.theatlantic.com':63 'www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':62 'www.theguardian.com':46 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':45"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767533"
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          date: 2023-11-14 01:51:43.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111756
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
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        +body: """
          Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
          \n
          > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
          \n
          **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1628 …}
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        -id: 111797
        -bodyTs: "'/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':20 '1':35 '850':36 'agre':87 'bad':99 'batteri':52 'better':91 'brake':8 'carbuzz.com':19 'carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':18 'chang':94 'climat':93 'comprehens':22 'drive':29 'dust':9 'edit':71 'effect':84 'electr':56 'emiss':17,31,43 'environ':102 'equival':41 'ev':89,96 'everyday':28 'exhaust':42 'expert':85 'fit':54 'found':25 'greater':38 'greenhous':83 'heavier':51 'increas':59 'made':47 'mass':61 'might':12 'much':5 'overwhelm':86 'pack':53 'particul':30,79 'place':65 'pollut':11 'say':76 'still':98 'strain':67 'studi':23 'tailpip':16 'time':37 'tire':10,33,70,78 'turn':64 'vehicl':57,60 'wors':6,14,48"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767705"
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          date: 2023-11-14 10:08:01.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111797
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
          \n
          [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699719642 {#1726
          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1737 …}
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        -id: 111836
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':18 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':25 '20':48 '50':56 'accord':38,49 'alreadi':28 'also':60 'anoth':19 'anyth':72 'articl':20,87 'bad':90 'big':80 'biggest':103 'brake':75 'car':37 'dozen':85 'dust':76 'electr':36 'even':3,11,97 'forb':22 'goodyear':51 'increas':42 'liter':84 'm':69,95 'mention':98 'michelin':40 'microplast':99 'near':78 'pollut':9,15,92 'problem':30,83 'research':63 'said':7 'see':71 'seen':67 'sourc':104 'switch':34 'tailpip':14 'tire':8,26,43,91,100 'valid':59 've':66 'wear':44 'wors':4,12 'www.forbes.com':24 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':23 'www.theguardian.com':17 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':16"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767893"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719642 {#1728
          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111836
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1741 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 11
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@corey389@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
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        -id: 112328
        -bodyTs: "'bad':38 'better':23 'biggest':46 'capita':9 'car':14,41 'caus':33 'compar':18 'damag':36 'distanc':6 'environment':35 'ev':2,50 'ice':20 'killer':47 'land':39 'major':34 'make':52 'may':51 'mode':15 'non':13 'non-car':12 'one':25,43 'other':30 'particular':26 'per':5,8 'problem':54 'still':32 'transport':17 'use':40 'way':27 'worldwid':48 'wors':4,28,55"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770565"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699850987 {#1716
          date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726562 {#1717
          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112328
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452}
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2364 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
          \n
          Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2372 …}
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        -id: 112408
        -bodyTs: "'actual':70 'air':21,30 'also':27,86 'away':91 'bad':67 'car':81,93 'care':54 'confus':7 'consequ':32 'drink':40 'effect':68 'environ':43,57 'etc':46 'ev':62,73,83 'everi':79 'everyon':52 'favor':60 'food':38 'ice':64 'increas':71 'leak':35 'link':16 'matter':51 'mean':9 'microplast':34 'need':76,87 'non':29 'non-air':28 'ocean':45 'pollut':22,31 're':2 'remain':80 'research':14 'right':3 'say':11 'small':50 'societi':90 'suppli':39 'tire':24 'transit':78,89 'use':74 'water':41 'wrote':5"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770950"
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112408
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727603 {#1909
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
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        -id: 112413
        -bodyTs: "'argument':5 'declar':9"
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770963"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727603 {#1708
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112413
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 5
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
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        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1401 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1362 …}
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        -id: 112447
        -bodyTs: "'actual':16 'alway':28 'ask':14 'especi':22 'expect':8 'hot':23 'idea':21 'like':25 'm':2 'petrol':26 'reason':17 'superior':30 'support':19 'sure':4 'take':24 'unreason':12"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4771134"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699728041 {#1384
          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112447
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
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          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
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          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
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        +"title": 113000
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
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        +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
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    ]
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      date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
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     …2
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  +body: """
    I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
    \n
    *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
    \n
    edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
    """
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    "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
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    "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
    "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
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    date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
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  +"title": 112348
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
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Show voter details
31 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
  +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1979 …}
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    +slug: "Yes-also-Teslas"
    +title: "Yes, also Teslas"
    +url: "https://media.mastodon.scot/mastodon-scot-public/media_attachments/files/111/386/122/832/701/352/original/adf530561fcd6b97.jpg"
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      date: 2023-11-15 19:58:09.0 +01:00
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    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
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        -id: 109758
        -bodyTs: "'car':14 'chang':17 'dead':19 'doesn':15 'go':3 'hit':24 'mind':11 'say':5 'without':4"
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          date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
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        +body: """
          But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
          \n
          If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596
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        +body: """
          But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
          \n
          **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
          \n
          [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
          \n
          [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
          \n
          > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
          \n
          According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
          """
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 111756
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          date: 2023-11-14 01:51:43.0 +01:00
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
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        +body: """
          Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
          \n
          > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
          \n
          **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
          """
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 111797
        -bodyTs: "'/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':20 '1':35 '850':36 'agre':87 'bad':99 'batteri':52 'better':91 'brake':8 'carbuzz.com':19 'carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':18 'chang':94 'climat':93 'comprehens':22 'drive':29 'dust':9 'edit':71 'effect':84 'electr':56 'emiss':17,31,43 'environ':102 'equival':41 'ev':89,96 'everyday':28 'exhaust':42 'expert':85 'fit':54 'found':25 'greater':38 'greenhous':83 'heavier':51 'increas':59 'made':47 'mass':61 'might':12 'much':5 'overwhelm':86 'pack':53 'particul':30,79 'place':65 'pollut':11 'say':76 'still':98 'strain':67 'studi':23 'tailpip':16 'time':37 'tire':10,33,70,78 'turn':64 'vehicl':57,60 'wors':6,14,48"
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          date: 2023-11-14 10:08:01.0 +01:00
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736
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        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
          \n
          [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
          """
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1737 …}
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        -id: 111836
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':18 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':25 '20':48 '50':56 'accord':38,49 'alreadi':28 'also':60 'anoth':19 'anyth':72 'articl':20,87 'bad':90 'big':80 'biggest':103 'brake':75 'car':37 'dozen':85 'dust':76 'electr':36 'even':3,11,97 'forb':22 'goodyear':51 'increas':42 'liter':84 'm':69,95 'mention':98 'michelin':40 'microplast':99 'near':78 'pollut':9,15,92 'problem':30,83 'research':63 'said':7 'see':71 'seen':67 'sourc':104 'switch':34 'tailpip':14 'tire':8,26,43,91,100 'valid':59 've':66 'wear':44 'wors':4,12 'www.forbes.com':24 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':23 'www.theguardian.com':17 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':16"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719642 {#1728
          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111836
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1741 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 11
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@corey389@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
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        -id: 112328
        -bodyTs: "'bad':38 'better':23 'biggest':46 'capita':9 'car':14,41 'caus':33 'compar':18 'damag':36 'distanc':6 'environment':35 'ev':2,50 'ice':20 'killer':47 'land':39 'major':34 'make':52 'may':51 'mode':15 'non':13 'non-car':12 'one':25,43 'other':30 'particular':26 'per':5,8 'problem':54 'still':32 'transport':17 'use':40 'way':27 'worldwid':48 'wors':4,28,55"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770565"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699850987 {#1716
          date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726562 {#1717
          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112328
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452}
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2364 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
          \n
          Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
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        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2372 …}
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        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1910 …}
        -id: 112408
        -bodyTs: "'actual':70 'air':21,30 'also':27,86 'away':91 'bad':67 'car':81,93 'care':54 'confus':7 'consequ':32 'drink':40 'effect':68 'environ':43,57 'etc':46 'ev':62,73,83 'everi':79 'everyon':52 'favor':60 'food':38 'ice':64 'increas':71 'leak':35 'link':16 'matter':51 'mean':9 'microplast':34 'need':76,87 'non':29 'non-air':28 'ocean':45 'pollut':22,31 're':2 'remain':80 'research':14 'right':3 'say':11 'small':50 'societi':90 'suppli':39 'tire':24 'transit':78,89 'use':74 'water':41 'wrote':5"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770950"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727556 {#2359
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112408
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727603 {#1909
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
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        -id: 112413
        -bodyTs: "'argument':5 'declar':9"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770963"
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112413
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
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        -id: 112447
        -bodyTs: "'actual':16 'alway':28 'ask':14 'especi':22 'expect':8 'hot':23 'idea':21 'like':25 'm':2 'petrol':26 'reason':17 'superior':30 'support':19 'sure':4 'take':24 'unreason':12"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4771134"
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112447
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
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          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 113000
        -bodyTs: "'300':39 'absurd':25 'also':42 'batteri':27 'benefit':55 'big':10 'car':13 'case':31 'commut':36 'consum':41 'daili':35 'demand':23 'didn':21 'effici':50 'even':32 'explod':17 'heavier':3 'high':26 'instead':48 'mile':40 'much':2 'negat':51 'peopl':20 'power':47 'problem':11 'rang':28 'seem':43 'size':14 'though':33 'transit':58 'unnecessari':46 'want':45 'weren':15 'wouldn':5 'yes':1"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4774086"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699736149 {#2032
          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113000
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@floofloof@lemmy.ca"
        ]
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        -id: 113349
        -bodyTs: "'bigger':34 'car':16 'consum':25 'effici':28 'engin':32 'europ':6 'extra':27 'increas':19 'keep':18 'might':2 'optimist':11 'power':31 'rang':35 'seem':21 'size':17 'us':14 'want':23"
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          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
        }
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    ]
    -id: 11788
    -titleTs: "'also':2 'tesla':3 'yes':1"
    -bodyTs: null
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    +upVotes: 0
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    +ranking: 1699719409
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      date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2457 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
  +body: """
    I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
    \n
    *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
    \n
    edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
    """
  +lang: "en"
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    date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
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    "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
    "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
    "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
    "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
    "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2454 …}
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  -id: 112348
  -bodyTs: "'air':95 'also':87 'aren':23 'argu':20 'argument':84 'away':72 'bad':46 'better':25,112 'brake':10 'car':39,74 'chang':59 'climat':28,36,58 'contribut':100 'contributor':56 'could':117 'doubt':108 'dust':6,11 'edit':85 'effect':104 'emiss':44 'encourag':77 'ev':22 'greenhous':103 'harm':37 'haven':88 'ice':30,78,114 'idea':65 'inan':83 'land':47 'liter':16 'lot':33,51 'major':55 'matter':97 'move':71 'much':94 'one':18 'park':50 'particul':96 'pavement':49 'push':69 'seen':90 'signific':120 'sprawl':53 'still':111,118 'studi':91 'tailpip':43 'talk':3 'tire':5,99 'typo':15 'understand':63 'urban':52 'use':48,79 'wors':8"
  +ranking: 0
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    date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
  }
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    date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 112348
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
32 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3048 …}
    +slug: "Yes-also-Teslas"
    +title: "Yes, also Teslas"
    +url: "https://media.mastodon.scot/mastodon-scot-public/media_attachments/files/111/386/122/832/701/352/original/adf530561fcd6b97.jpg"
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      date: 2023-11-15 19:58:09.0 +01:00
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3047 …}
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    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@HonoraryMancunian@lemmy.world"
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          "@fiah@discuss.tchncs.de"
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1550 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1561 …}
        +body: """
          But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
          \n
          If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@thantik@lemmy.world"
          "@cestvrai@lemm.ee"
          "@Buffaloaf@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 109960
        -bodyTs: "'also':9 'amount':31 'anyth':23 'bring':38 'bunch':12 'car':14 'cargo':3,36,40 'caus':34 'defens':47 'drive':10 'ev':27,49 'exist':5 'heavi':26 'increas':29 'make':42 'orthogon':21 'pollut':33 're':8 'sens':44 'ship':4,37,41 'switch':24 'total':20 'whether':6"
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          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 109960
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
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        +body: """
          But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
          \n
          **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
          \n
          [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
          \n
          [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
          \n
          > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
          \n
          According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
          """
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 111756
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':47 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':121 '/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':64 '20':144 '50':152 'accord':114,134,145 'adopt':109 'air':13 'alreadi':124 'also':156,182 'america':106 'articl':26,41,61,118 'atlant':60 'away':190 'begin':107 'better':170 'bigger':10 'brake':18 'car':111,133,175,192 'clear':167 'danger':86 'deepen':84 'depend':193 'discuss':65 'dozen':24 'dust':5,19 'edit':20,164 'electr':110,132 'en':112 'ev':29,70,72,90,168,179,181 'everi':174 'exhaust':58 'forb':117 'generat':80 'get':103 'goodyear':147 'guardian':44 'heavier':77 'ice':37,172 'increas':3,68,138 'liter':23 'mass':113 'massiv':2 'michelin':136 'model':73 'much':9,50 'need':187 'new':71 'one':98 'particul':34,53,67,82 'pois':101 'pollut':16,35,54,95 'problem':96,126 'produc':31 'quicker':79 'research':159 'seen':163 'sourc':11 'still':186 'suck':183 'switch':130 'tailpip':57 'tend':74 'tire':4,33,66,94,122,139 'tire-pollut':93 'transit':189 'tyre':52 'valid':155 've':162 'water':15 'wear':140 'word':89 'wors':51,104 'www.forbes.com':120 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':119 'www.theatlantic.com':63 'www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':62 'www.theguardian.com':46 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':45"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767533"
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          date: 2023-11-14 01:51:43.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111756
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +body: """
          Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
          \n
          > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
          \n
          **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
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        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1628 …}
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        -id: 111797
        -bodyTs: "'/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':20 '1':35 '850':36 'agre':87 'bad':99 'batteri':52 'better':91 'brake':8 'carbuzz.com':19 'carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':18 'chang':94 'climat':93 'comprehens':22 'drive':29 'dust':9 'edit':71 'effect':84 'electr':56 'emiss':17,31,43 'environ':102 'equival':41 'ev':89,96 'everyday':28 'exhaust':42 'expert':85 'fit':54 'found':25 'greater':38 'greenhous':83 'heavier':51 'increas':59 'made':47 'mass':61 'might':12 'much':5 'overwhelm':86 'pack':53 'particul':30,79 'place':65 'pollut':11 'say':76 'still':98 'strain':67 'studi':23 'tailpip':16 'time':37 'tire':10,33,70,78 'turn':64 'vehicl':57,60 'wors':6,14,48"
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          date: 2023-11-14 10:08:01.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111797
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
          \n
          [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
          """
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        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 111836
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':18 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':25 '20':48 '50':56 'accord':38,49 'alreadi':28 'also':60 'anoth':19 'anyth':72 'articl':20,87 'bad':90 'big':80 'biggest':103 'brake':75 'car':37 'dozen':85 'dust':76 'electr':36 'even':3,11,97 'forb':22 'goodyear':51 'increas':42 'liter':84 'm':69,95 'mention':98 'michelin':40 'microplast':99 'near':78 'pollut':9,15,92 'problem':30,83 'research':63 'said':7 'see':71 'seen':67 'sourc':104 'switch':34 'tailpip':14 'tire':8,26,43,91,100 'valid':59 've':66 'wear':44 'wors':4,12 'www.forbes.com':24 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':23 'www.theguardian.com':17 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':16"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111836
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +image: null
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@corey389@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
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        -id: 112328
        -bodyTs: "'bad':38 'better':23 'biggest':46 'capita':9 'car':14,41 'caus':33 'compar':18 'damag':36 'distanc':6 'environment':35 'ev':2,50 'ice':20 'killer':47 'land':39 'major':34 'make':52 'may':51 'mode':15 'non':13 'non-car':12 'one':25,43 'other':30 'particular':26 'per':5,8 'problem':54 'still':32 'transport':17 'use':40 'way':27 'worldwid':48 'wors':4,28,55"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770565"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699850987 {#1716
          date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
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      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452}
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2364 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
          \n
          Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
          """
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 112408
        -bodyTs: "'actual':70 'air':21,30 'also':27,86 'away':91 'bad':67 'car':81,93 'care':54 'confus':7 'consequ':32 'drink':40 'effect':68 'environ':43,57 'etc':46 'ev':62,73,83 'everi':79 'everyon':52 'favor':60 'food':38 'ice':64 'increas':71 'leak':35 'link':16 'matter':51 'mean':9 'microplast':34 'need':76,87 'non':29 'non-air':28 'ocean':45 'pollut':22,31 're':2 'remain':80 'research':14 'right':3 'say':11 'small':50 'societi':90 'suppli':39 'tire':24 'transit':78,89 'use':74 'water':41 'wrote':5"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770950"
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112408
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
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        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
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        -id: 112413
        -bodyTs: "'argument':5 'declar':9"
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770963"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727603 {#1708
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112413
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 5
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1385 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1401 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1362 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2019 …}
        -id: 112447
        -bodyTs: "'actual':16 'alway':28 'ask':14 'especi':22 'expect':8 'hot':23 'idea':21 'like':25 'm':2 'petrol':26 'reason':17 'superior':30 'support':19 'sure':4 'take':24 'unreason':12"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4771134"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699728041 {#1384
          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112447
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
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          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
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          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
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      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
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        +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
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      date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
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  +body: """
    I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
    \n
    *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
    \n
    edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
    """
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}
 
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    +slug: "Yes-also-Teslas"
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    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
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        +body: """
          But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
          \n
          If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
          """
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596
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        +body: """
          But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
          \n
          **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
          \n
          [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
          \n
          [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
          \n
          > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
          \n
          According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
          """
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        -id: 111756
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':47 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':121 '/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':64 '20':144 '50':152 'accord':114,134,145 'adopt':109 'air':13 'alreadi':124 'also':156,182 'america':106 'articl':26,41,61,118 'atlant':60 'away':190 'begin':107 'better':170 'bigger':10 'brake':18 'car':111,133,175,192 'clear':167 'danger':86 'deepen':84 'depend':193 'discuss':65 'dozen':24 'dust':5,19 'edit':20,164 'electr':110,132 'en':112 'ev':29,70,72,90,168,179,181 'everi':174 'exhaust':58 'forb':117 'generat':80 'get':103 'goodyear':147 'guardian':44 'heavier':77 'ice':37,172 'increas':3,68,138 'liter':23 'mass':113 'massiv':2 'michelin':136 'model':73 'much':9,50 'need':187 'new':71 'one':98 'particul':34,53,67,82 'pois':101 'pollut':16,35,54,95 'problem':96,126 'produc':31 'quicker':79 'research':159 'seen':163 'sourc':11 'still':186 'suck':183 'switch':130 'tailpip':57 'tend':74 'tire':4,33,66,94,122,139 'tire-pollut':93 'transit':189 'tyre':52 'valid':155 've':162 'water':15 'wear':140 'word':89 'wors':51,104 'www.forbes.com':120 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':119 'www.theatlantic.com':63 'www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':62 'www.theguardian.com':46 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':45"
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
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        +body: """
          Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
          \n
          > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
          \n
          **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
          """
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
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        -id: 111797
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          date: 2023-11-14 10:08:01.0 +01:00
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        +body: """
          It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
          \n
          [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1737 …}
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        -id: 111836
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':18 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':25 '20':48 '50':56 'accord':38,49 'alreadi':28 'also':60 'anoth':19 'anyth':72 'articl':20,87 'bad':90 'big':80 'biggest':103 'brake':75 'car':37 'dozen':85 'dust':76 'electr':36 'even':3,11,97 'forb':22 'goodyear':51 'increas':42 'liter':84 'm':69,95 'mention':98 'michelin':40 'microplast':99 'near':78 'pollut':9,15,92 'problem':30,83 'research':63 'said':7 'see':71 'seen':67 'sourc':104 'switch':34 'tailpip':14 'tire':8,26,43,91,100 'valid':59 've':66 'wear':44 'wors':4,12 'www.forbes.com':24 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':23 'www.theguardian.com':17 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':16"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719642 {#1728
          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111836
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1741 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@corey389@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
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        -id: 112328
        -bodyTs: "'bad':38 'better':23 'biggest':46 'capita':9 'car':14,41 'caus':33 'compar':18 'damag':36 'distanc':6 'environment':35 'ev':2,50 'ice':20 'killer':47 'land':39 'major':34 'make':52 'may':51 'mode':15 'non':13 'non-car':12 'one':25,43 'other':30 'particular':26 'per':5,8 'problem':54 'still':32 'transport':17 'use':40 'way':27 'worldwid':48 'wors':4,28,55"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770565"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699850987 {#1716
          date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726562 {#1717
          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112328
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2457 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
          \n
          *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
          \n
          edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
          """
        +lang: "en"
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        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2454 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2459 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2470 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2467 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2371 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2370 …}
        -id: 112348
        -bodyTs: "'air':95 'also':87 'aren':23 'argu':20 'argument':84 'away':72 'bad':46 'better':25,112 'brake':10 'car':39,74 'chang':59 'climat':28,36,58 'contribut':100 'contributor':56 'could':117 'doubt':108 'dust':6,11 'edit':85 'effect':104 'emiss':44 'encourag':77 'ev':22 'greenhous':103 'harm':37 'haven':88 'ice':30,78,114 'idea':65 'inan':83 'land':47 'liter':16 'lot':33,51 'major':55 'matter':97 'move':71 'much':94 'one':18 'park':50 'particul':96 'pavement':49 'push':69 'seen':90 'signific':120 'sprawl':53 'still':111,118 'studi':91 'tailpip':43 'talk':3 'tire':5,99 'typo':15 'understand':63 'urban':52 'use':48,79 'wors':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770668"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699851345 {#2460
          date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726842 {#2453
          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112348
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361}
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 112413
        -bodyTs: "'argument':5 'declar':9"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770963"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727603 {#1708
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112413
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 5
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
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        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2019 …}
        -id: 112447
        -bodyTs: "'actual':16 'alway':28 'ask':14 'especi':22 'expect':8 'hot':23 'idea':21 'like':25 'm':2 'petrol':26 'reason':17 'superior':30 'support':19 'sure':4 'take':24 'unreason':12"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4771134"
        +editedAt: null
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112447
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2022 …}
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        -id: 113000
        -bodyTs: "'300':39 'absurd':25 'also':42 'batteri':27 'benefit':55 'big':10 'car':13 'case':31 'commut':36 'consum':41 'daili':35 'demand':23 'didn':21 'effici':50 'even':32 'explod':17 'heavier':3 'high':26 'instead':48 'mile':40 'much':2 'negat':51 'peopl':20 'power':47 'problem':11 'rang':28 'seem':43 'size':14 'though':33 'transit':58 'unnecessari':46 'want':45 'weren':15 'wouldn':5 'yes':1"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4774086"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699736149 {#2032
          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113000
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@floofloof@lemmy.ca"
        ]
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        -id: 113349
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        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
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    ]
    -id: 11788
    -titleTs: "'also':2 'tesla':3 'yes':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1699719409
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    +apId: "https://mander.xyz/post/6008655"
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      date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2364 …}
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  +body: """
    You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
    \n
    Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
    """
  +lang: "en"
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    "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
    "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
    "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2372 …}
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  -id: 112408
  -bodyTs: "'actual':70 'air':21,30 'also':27,86 'away':91 'bad':67 'car':81,93 'care':54 'confus':7 'consequ':32 'drink':40 'effect':68 'environ':43,57 'etc':46 'ev':62,73,83 'everi':79 'everyon':52 'favor':60 'food':38 'ice':64 'increas':71 'leak':35 'link':16 'matter':51 'mean':9 'microplast':34 'need':76,87 'non':29 'non-air':28 'ocean':45 'pollut':22,31 're':2 'remain':80 'research':14 'right':3 'say':11 'small':50 'societi':90 'suppli':39 'tire':24 'transit':78,89 'use':74 'water':41 'wrote':5"
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    date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 112408
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
35 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
  +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1979 …}
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3020 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3048 …}
    +slug: "Yes-also-Teslas"
    +title: "Yes, also Teslas"
    +url: "https://media.mastodon.scot/mastodon-scot-public/media_attachments/files/111/386/122/832/701/352/original/adf530561fcd6b97.jpg"
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    +lastActive: DateTime @1700074689 {#2016
      date: 2023-11-15 19:58:09.0 +01:00
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    +ip: null
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3047 …}
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    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@HonoraryMancunian@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@fiah@discuss.tchncs.de"
        ]
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        -id: 109758
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          date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 109758
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1550 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1561 …}
        +body: """
          But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
          \n
          If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
          """
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        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
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          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@thantik@lemmy.world"
          "@cestvrai@lemm.ee"
          "@Buffaloaf@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 109960
        -bodyTs: "'also':9 'amount':31 'anyth':23 'bring':38 'bunch':12 'car':14 'cargo':3,36,40 'caus':34 'defens':47 'drive':10 'ev':27,49 'exist':5 'heavi':26 'increas':29 'make':42 'orthogon':21 'pollut':33 're':8 'sens':44 'ship':4,37,41 'switch':24 'total':20 'whether':6"
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          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 109960
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
          \n
          **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
          \n
          [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
          \n
          [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
          \n
          > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
          \n
          According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 111756
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':47 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':121 '/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':64 '20':144 '50':152 'accord':114,134,145 'adopt':109 'air':13 'alreadi':124 'also':156,182 'america':106 'articl':26,41,61,118 'atlant':60 'away':190 'begin':107 'better':170 'bigger':10 'brake':18 'car':111,133,175,192 'clear':167 'danger':86 'deepen':84 'depend':193 'discuss':65 'dozen':24 'dust':5,19 'edit':20,164 'electr':110,132 'en':112 'ev':29,70,72,90,168,179,181 'everi':174 'exhaust':58 'forb':117 'generat':80 'get':103 'goodyear':147 'guardian':44 'heavier':77 'ice':37,172 'increas':3,68,138 'liter':23 'mass':113 'massiv':2 'michelin':136 'model':73 'much':9,50 'need':187 'new':71 'one':98 'particul':34,53,67,82 'pois':101 'pollut':16,35,54,95 'problem':96,126 'produc':31 'quicker':79 'research':159 'seen':163 'sourc':11 'still':186 'suck':183 'switch':130 'tailpip':57 'tend':74 'tire':4,33,66,94,122,139 'tire-pollut':93 'transit':189 'tyre':52 'valid':155 've':162 'water':15 'wear':140 'word':89 'wors':51,104 'www.forbes.com':120 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':119 'www.theatlantic.com':63 'www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':62 'www.theguardian.com':46 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':45"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767533"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699923103 {#1613
          date: 2023-11-14 01:51:43.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111756
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1629 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
          \n
          > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
          \n
          **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1628 …}
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        -id: 111797
        -bodyTs: "'/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':20 '1':35 '850':36 'agre':87 'bad':99 'batteri':52 'better':91 'brake':8 'carbuzz.com':19 'carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':18 'chang':94 'climat':93 'comprehens':22 'drive':29 'dust':9 'edit':71 'effect':84 'electr':56 'emiss':17,31,43 'environ':102 'equival':41 'ev':89,96 'everyday':28 'exhaust':42 'expert':85 'fit':54 'found':25 'greater':38 'greenhous':83 'heavier':51 'increas':59 'made':47 'mass':61 'might':12 'much':5 'overwhelm':86 'pack':53 'particul':30,79 'place':65 'pollut':11 'say':76 'still':98 'strain':67 'studi':23 'tailpip':16 'time':37 'tire':10,33,70,78 'turn':64 'vehicl':57,60 'wors':6,14,48"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767705"
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          date: 2023-11-14 10:08:01.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111797
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
          \n
          [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 16
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699719642 {#1726
          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1737 …}
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        -id: 111836
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':18 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':25 '20':48 '50':56 'accord':38,49 'alreadi':28 'also':60 'anoth':19 'anyth':72 'articl':20,87 'bad':90 'big':80 'biggest':103 'brake':75 'car':37 'dozen':85 'dust':76 'electr':36 'even':3,11,97 'forb':22 'goodyear':51 'increas':42 'liter':84 'm':69,95 'mention':98 'michelin':40 'microplast':99 'near':78 'pollut':9,15,92 'problem':30,83 'research':63 'said':7 'see':71 'seen':67 'sourc':104 'switch':34 'tailpip':14 'tire':8,26,43,91,100 'valid':59 've':66 'wear':44 'wors':4,12 'www.forbes.com':24 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':23 'www.theguardian.com':17 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':16"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767893"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719642 {#1728
          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111836
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1741 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 11
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@corey389@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
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        -id: 112328
        -bodyTs: "'bad':38 'better':23 'biggest':46 'capita':9 'car':14,41 'caus':33 'compar':18 'damag':36 'distanc':6 'environment':35 'ev':2,50 'ice':20 'killer':47 'land':39 'major':34 'make':52 'may':51 'mode':15 'non':13 'non-car':12 'one':25,43 'other':30 'particular':26 'per':5,8 'problem':54 'still':32 'transport':17 'use':40 'way':27 'worldwid':48 'wors':4,28,55"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770565"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699850987 {#1716
          date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112328
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2457 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
          \n
          *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
          \n
          edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2454 …}
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        -id: 112348
        -bodyTs: "'air':95 'also':87 'aren':23 'argu':20 'argument':84 'away':72 'bad':46 'better':25,112 'brake':10 'car':39,74 'chang':59 'climat':28,36,58 'contribut':100 'contributor':56 'could':117 'doubt':108 'dust':6,11 'edit':85 'effect':104 'emiss':44 'encourag':77 'ev':22 'greenhous':103 'harm':37 'haven':88 'ice':30,78,114 'idea':65 'inan':83 'land':47 'liter':16 'lot':33,51 'major':55 'matter':97 'move':71 'much':94 'one':18 'park':50 'particul':96 'pavement':49 'push':69 'seen':90 'signific':120 'sprawl':53 'still':111,118 'studi':91 'tailpip':43 'talk':3 'tire':5,99 'typo':15 'understand':63 'urban':52 'use':48,79 'wors':8"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770668"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699851345 {#2460
          date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726842 {#2453
          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112348
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361}
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727603 {#1909
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2387 …}
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        -id: 112413
        -bodyTs: "'argument':5 'declar':9"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770963"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727603 {#1708
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112413
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 5
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699728041 {#2393
          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1385 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1401 …}
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        -id: 112447
        -bodyTs: "'actual':16 'alway':28 'ask':14 'especi':22 'expect':8 'hot':23 'idea':21 'like':25 'm':2 'petrol':26 'reason':17 'superior':30 'support':19 'sure':4 'take':24 'unreason':12"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4771134"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699728041 {#1384
          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112447
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
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          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
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        +"title": 113000
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
        +lang: "en"
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    ]
    -id: 11788
    -titleTs: "'also':2 'tesla':3 'yes':1"
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      date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
    }
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     …2
  }
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  +body: """
    You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
    \n
    Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
    """
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    date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
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    "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
    "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
    "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
  ]
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  -id: 112408
  -bodyTs: "'actual':70 'air':21,30 'also':27,86 'away':91 'bad':67 'car':81,93 'care':54 'confus':7 'consequ':32 'drink':40 'effect':68 'environ':43,57 'etc':46 'ev':62,73,83 'everi':79 'everyon':52 'favor':60 'food':38 'ice':64 'increas':71 'leak':35 'link':16 'matter':51 'mean':9 'microplast':34 'need':76,87 'non':29 'non-air':28 'ocean':45 'pollut':22,31 're':2 'remain':80 'research':14 'right':3 'say':11 'small':50 'societi':90 'suppli':39 'tire':24 'transit':78,89 'use':74 'water':41 'wrote':5"
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  +"title": 112408
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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Show voter details
36 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
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    +slug: "Yes-also-Teslas"
    +title: "Yes, also Teslas"
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    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
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        -id: 109758
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          date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
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        +body: """
          But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
          \n
          If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
          """
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        ]
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        -id: 109960
        -bodyTs: "'also':9 'amount':31 'anyth':23 'bring':38 'bunch':12 'car':14 'cargo':3,36,40 'caus':34 'defens':47 'drive':10 'ev':27,49 'exist':5 'heavi':26 'increas':29 'make':42 'orthogon':21 'pollut':33 're':8 'sens':44 'ship':4,37,41 'switch':24 'total':20 'whether':6"
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          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596
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        +body: """
          But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
          \n
          **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
          \n
          [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
          \n
          [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
          \n
          > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
          \n
          According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
          """
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 111756
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':47 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':121 '/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':64 '20':144 '50':152 'accord':114,134,145 'adopt':109 'air':13 'alreadi':124 'also':156,182 'america':106 'articl':26,41,61,118 'atlant':60 'away':190 'begin':107 'better':170 'bigger':10 'brake':18 'car':111,133,175,192 'clear':167 'danger':86 'deepen':84 'depend':193 'discuss':65 'dozen':24 'dust':5,19 'edit':20,164 'electr':110,132 'en':112 'ev':29,70,72,90,168,179,181 'everi':174 'exhaust':58 'forb':117 'generat':80 'get':103 'goodyear':147 'guardian':44 'heavier':77 'ice':37,172 'increas':3,68,138 'liter':23 'mass':113 'massiv':2 'michelin':136 'model':73 'much':9,50 'need':187 'new':71 'one':98 'particul':34,53,67,82 'pois':101 'pollut':16,35,54,95 'problem':96,126 'produc':31 'quicker':79 'research':159 'seen':163 'sourc':11 'still':186 'suck':183 'switch':130 'tailpip':57 'tend':74 'tire':4,33,66,94,122,139 'tire-pollut':93 'transit':189 'tyre':52 'valid':155 've':162 'water':15 'wear':140 'word':89 'wors':51,104 'www.forbes.com':120 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':119 'www.theatlantic.com':63 'www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':62 'www.theguardian.com':46 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':45"
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          date: 2023-11-14 01:51:43.0 +01:00
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
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        +body: """
          Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
          \n
          > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
          \n
          **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
          """
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 111797
        -bodyTs: "'/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':20 '1':35 '850':36 'agre':87 'bad':99 'batteri':52 'better':91 'brake':8 'carbuzz.com':19 'carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':18 'chang':94 'climat':93 'comprehens':22 'drive':29 'dust':9 'edit':71 'effect':84 'electr':56 'emiss':17,31,43 'environ':102 'equival':41 'ev':89,96 'everyday':28 'exhaust':42 'expert':85 'fit':54 'found':25 'greater':38 'greenhous':83 'heavier':51 'increas':59 'made':47 'mass':61 'might':12 'much':5 'overwhelm':86 'pack':53 'particul':30,79 'place':65 'pollut':11 'say':76 'still':98 'strain':67 'studi':23 'tailpip':16 'time':37 'tire':10,33,70,78 'turn':64 'vehicl':57,60 'wors':6,14,48"
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          date: 2023-11-14 10:08:01.0 +01:00
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736
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        +body: """
          It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
          \n
          [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
          """
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
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        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1737 …}
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        -id: 111836
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':18 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':25 '20':48 '50':56 'accord':38,49 'alreadi':28 'also':60 'anoth':19 'anyth':72 'articl':20,87 'bad':90 'big':80 'biggest':103 'brake':75 'car':37 'dozen':85 'dust':76 'electr':36 'even':3,11,97 'forb':22 'goodyear':51 'increas':42 'liter':84 'm':69,95 'mention':98 'michelin':40 'microplast':99 'near':78 'pollut':9,15,92 'problem':30,83 'research':63 'said':7 'see':71 'seen':67 'sourc':104 'switch':34 'tailpip':14 'tire':8,26,43,91,100 'valid':59 've':66 'wear':44 'wors':4,12 'www.forbes.com':24 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':23 'www.theguardian.com':17 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':16"
        +ranking: 0
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719642 {#1728
          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111836
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1741 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
        +lang: "en"
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        +favouriteCount: 11
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@corey389@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 112328
        -bodyTs: "'bad':38 'better':23 'biggest':46 'capita':9 'car':14,41 'caus':33 'compar':18 'damag':36 'distanc':6 'environment':35 'ev':2,50 'ice':20 'killer':47 'land':39 'major':34 'make':52 'may':51 'mode':15 'non':13 'non-car':12 'one':25,43 'other':30 'particular':26 'per':5,8 'problem':54 'still':32 'transport':17 'use':40 'way':27 'worldwid':48 'wors':4,28,55"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770565"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699850987 {#1716
          date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726562 {#1717
          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112328
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2457 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
          \n
          *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
          \n
          edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699726842 {#2456
          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2454 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2459 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2470 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2467 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2371 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2370 …}
        -id: 112348
        -bodyTs: "'air':95 'also':87 'aren':23 'argu':20 'argument':84 'away':72 'bad':46 'better':25,112 'brake':10 'car':39,74 'chang':59 'climat':28,36,58 'contribut':100 'contributor':56 'could':117 'doubt':108 'dust':6,11 'edit':85 'effect':104 'emiss':44 'encourag':77 'ev':22 'greenhous':103 'harm':37 'haven':88 'ice':30,78,114 'idea':65 'inan':83 'land':47 'liter':16 'lot':33,51 'major':55 'matter':97 'move':71 'much':94 'one':18 'park':50 'particul':96 'pavement':49 'push':69 'seen':90 'signific':120 'sprawl':53 'still':111,118 'studi':91 'tailpip':43 'talk':3 'tire':5,99 'typo':15 'understand':63 'urban':52 'use':48,79 'wors':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770668"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699851345 {#2460
          date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726842 {#2453
          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112348
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361}
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727603 {#1909
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
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        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
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        -id: 112413
        -bodyTs: "'argument':5 'declar':9"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770963"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727603 {#1708
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112413
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 5
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
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        -id: 112447
        -bodyTs: "'actual':16 'alway':28 'ask':14 'especi':22 'expect':8 'hot':23 'idea':21 'like':25 'm':2 'petrol':26 'reason':17 'superior':30 'support':19 'sure':4 'take':24 'unreason':12"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4771134"
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112447
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 113000
        -bodyTs: "'300':39 'absurd':25 'also':42 'batteri':27 'benefit':55 'big':10 'car':13 'case':31 'commut':36 'consum':41 'daili':35 'demand':23 'didn':21 'effici':50 'even':32 'explod':17 'heavier':3 'high':26 'instead':48 'mile':40 'much':2 'negat':51 'peopl':20 'power':47 'problem':11 'rang':28 'seem':43 'size':14 'though':33 'transit':58 'unnecessari':46 'want':45 'weren':15 'wouldn':5 'yes':1"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4774086"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699736149 {#2032
          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113000
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@floofloof@lemmy.ca"
        ]
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        -id: 113349
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          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
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    ]
    -id: 11788
    -titleTs: "'also':2 'tesla':3 'yes':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
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    +ranking: 1699719409
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      date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2364 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
  +body: """
    You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
    \n
    Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
    """
  +lang: "en"
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    date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
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    "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
    "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
    "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
    "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2372 …}
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  -id: 112408
  -bodyTs: "'actual':70 'air':21,30 'also':27,86 'away':91 'bad':67 'car':81,93 'care':54 'confus':7 'consequ':32 'drink':40 'effect':68 'environ':43,57 'etc':46 'ev':62,73,83 'everi':79 'everyon':52 'favor':60 'food':38 'ice':64 'increas':71 'leak':35 'link':16 'matter':51 'mean':9 'microplast':34 'need':76,87 'non':29 'non-air':28 'ocean':45 'pollut':22,31 're':2 'remain':80 'research':14 'right':3 'say':11 'small':50 'societi':90 'suppli':39 'tire':24 'transit':78,89 'use':74 'water':41 'wrote':5"
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    date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 112408
}
 
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38 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
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    +slug: "Yes-also-Teslas"
    +title: "Yes, also Teslas"
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4754096"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699667552 {#1438
          date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 109758
      }
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        +body: """
          But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
          \n
          If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@thantik@lemmy.world"
          "@cestvrai@lemm.ee"
          "@Buffaloaf@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 109960
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596
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        +body: """
          But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
          \n
          **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
          \n
          [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
          \n
          [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
          \n
          > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
          \n
          According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
          """
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-14 01:51:43.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
        }
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      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
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        +body: """
          Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
          \n
          > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
          \n
          **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
          """
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 111797
        -bodyTs: "'/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':20 '1':35 '850':36 'agre':87 'bad':99 'batteri':52 'better':91 'brake':8 'carbuzz.com':19 'carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':18 'chang':94 'climat':93 'comprehens':22 'drive':29 'dust':9 'edit':71 'effect':84 'electr':56 'emiss':17,31,43 'environ':102 'equival':41 'ev':89,96 'everyday':28 'exhaust':42 'expert':85 'fit':54 'found':25 'greater':38 'greenhous':83 'heavier':51 'increas':59 'made':47 'mass':61 'might':12 'much':5 'overwhelm':86 'pack':53 'particul':30,79 'place':65 'pollut':11 'say':76 'still':98 'strain':67 'studi':23 'tailpip':16 'time':37 'tire':10,33,70,78 'turn':64 'vehicl':57,60 'wors':6,14,48"
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          date: 2023-11-14 10:08:01.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
        }
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      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736
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        +body: """
          It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
          \n
          [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 111836
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':18 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':25 '20':48 '50':56 'accord':38,49 'alreadi':28 'also':60 'anoth':19 'anyth':72 'articl':20,87 'bad':90 'big':80 'biggest':103 'brake':75 'car':37 'dozen':85 'dust':76 'electr':36 'even':3,11,97 'forb':22 'goodyear':51 'increas':42 'liter':84 'm':69,95 'mention':98 'michelin':40 'microplast':99 'near':78 'pollut':9,15,92 'problem':30,83 'research':63 'said':7 'see':71 'seen':67 'sourc':104 'switch':34 'tailpip':14 'tire':8,26,43,91,100 'valid':59 've':66 'wear':44 'wors':4,12 'www.forbes.com':24 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':23 'www.theguardian.com':17 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':16"
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111836
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@corey389@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
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        +body: """
          I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
          \n
          *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
          \n
          edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
          """
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
        ]
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770668"
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          date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112348
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
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        +body: """
          You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
          \n
          Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
          """
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -bodyTs: "'actual':70 'air':21,30 'also':27,86 'away':91 'bad':67 'car':81,93 'care':54 'confus':7 'consequ':32 'drink':40 'effect':68 'environ':43,57 'etc':46 'ev':62,73,83 'everi':79 'everyon':52 'favor':60 'food':38 'ice':64 'increas':71 'leak':35 'link':16 'matter':51 'mean':9 'microplast':34 'need':76,87 'non':29 'non-air':28 'ocean':45 'pollut':22,31 're':2 'remain':80 'research':14 'right':3 'say':11 'small':50 'societi':90 'suppli':39 'tire':24 'transit':78,89 'use':74 'water':41 'wrote':5"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770950"
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112408
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926}
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1385 …}
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        -id: 112447
        -bodyTs: "'actual':16 'alway':28 'ask':14 'especi':22 'expect':8 'hot':23 'idea':21 'like':25 'm':2 'petrol':26 'reason':17 'superior':30 'support':19 'sure':4 'take':24 'unreason':12"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112447
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699736149 {#2030
          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
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        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2022 …}
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        -id: 113000
        -bodyTs: "'300':39 'absurd':25 'also':42 'batteri':27 'benefit':55 'big':10 'car':13 'case':31 'commut':36 'consum':41 'daili':35 'demand':23 'didn':21 'effici':50 'even':32 'explod':17 'heavier':3 'high':26 'instead':48 'mile':40 'much':2 'negat':51 'peopl':20 'power':47 'problem':11 'rang':28 'seem':43 'size':14 'though':33 'transit':58 'unnecessari':46 'want':45 'weren':15 'wouldn':5 'yes':1"
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          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113000
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
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          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@floofloof@lemmy.ca"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2144 …}
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        -id: 113349
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4776307"
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          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113349
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    ]
    -id: 11788
    -titleTs: "'also':2 'tesla':3 'yes':1"
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699633009 {#1696
      date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
  +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 6
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    date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
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    "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
    "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
    "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
    "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
    "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
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    date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
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  +"title": 112413
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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Show voter details
39 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
  +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1979 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3020 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3048 …}
    +slug: "Yes-also-Teslas"
    +title: "Yes, also Teslas"
    +url: "https://media.mastodon.scot/mastodon-scot-public/media_attachments/files/111/386/122/832/701/352/original/adf530561fcd6b97.jpg"
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    +lastActive: DateTime @1700074689 {#2016
      date: 2023-11-15 19:58:09.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3047 …}
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    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3089 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
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          "@HonoraryMancunian@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@fiah@discuss.tchncs.de"
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        -id: 109758
        -bodyTs: "'car':14 'chang':17 'dead':19 'doesn':15 'go':3 'hit':24 'mind':11 'say':5 'without':4"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4754096"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699667552 {#1438
          date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 109758
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1550 …}
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        +body: """
          But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
          \n
          If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
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          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@thantik@lemmy.world"
          "@cestvrai@lemm.ee"
          "@Buffaloaf@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 109960
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4756392"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699673663 {#1559
          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 109960
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
          \n
          **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
          \n
          [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
          \n
          [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
          \n
          > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
          \n
          According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
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        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
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        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1705 …}
        -id: 111756
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':47 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':121 '/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':64 '20':144 '50':152 'accord':114,134,145 'adopt':109 'air':13 'alreadi':124 'also':156,182 'america':106 'articl':26,41,61,118 'atlant':60 'away':190 'begin':107 'better':170 'bigger':10 'brake':18 'car':111,133,175,192 'clear':167 'danger':86 'deepen':84 'depend':193 'discuss':65 'dozen':24 'dust':5,19 'edit':20,164 'electr':110,132 'en':112 'ev':29,70,72,90,168,179,181 'everi':174 'exhaust':58 'forb':117 'generat':80 'get':103 'goodyear':147 'guardian':44 'heavier':77 'ice':37,172 'increas':3,68,138 'liter':23 'mass':113 'massiv':2 'michelin':136 'model':73 'much':9,50 'need':187 'new':71 'one':98 'particul':34,53,67,82 'pois':101 'pollut':16,35,54,95 'problem':96,126 'produc':31 'quicker':79 'research':159 'seen':163 'sourc':11 'still':186 'suck':183 'switch':130 'tailpip':57 'tend':74 'tire':4,33,66,94,122,139 'tire-pollut':93 'transit':189 'tyre':52 'valid':155 've':162 'water':15 'wear':140 'word':89 'wors':51,104 'www.forbes.com':120 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':119 'www.theatlantic.com':63 'www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':62 'www.theguardian.com':46 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':45"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767533"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699923103 {#1613
          date: 2023-11-14 01:51:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699718733 {#1604
          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 111756
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1629 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
          \n
          > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
          \n
          **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 11
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1628 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1599 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1625 …}
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        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1722 …}
        -id: 111797
        -bodyTs: "'/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':20 '1':35 '850':36 'agre':87 'bad':99 'batteri':52 'better':91 'brake':8 'carbuzz.com':19 'carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':18 'chang':94 'climat':93 'comprehens':22 'drive':29 'dust':9 'edit':71 'effect':84 'electr':56 'emiss':17,31,43 'environ':102 'equival':41 'ev':89,96 'everyday':28 'exhaust':42 'expert':85 'fit':54 'found':25 'greater':38 'greenhous':83 'heavier':51 'increas':59 'made':47 'mass':61 'might':12 'much':5 'overwhelm':86 'pack':53 'particul':30,79 'place':65 'pollut':11 'say':76 'still':98 'strain':67 'studi':23 'tailpip':16 'time':37 'tire':10,33,70,78 'turn':64 'vehicl':57,60 'wors':6,14,48"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767705"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699952881 {#1611
          date: 2023-11-14 10:08:01.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 111797
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
          \n
          [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 16
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699719642 {#1726
          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1737 …}
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        -id: 111836
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':18 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':25 '20':48 '50':56 'accord':38,49 'alreadi':28 'also':60 'anoth':19 'anyth':72 'articl':20,87 'bad':90 'big':80 'biggest':103 'brake':75 'car':37 'dozen':85 'dust':76 'electr':36 'even':3,11,97 'forb':22 'goodyear':51 'increas':42 'liter':84 'm':69,95 'mention':98 'michelin':40 'microplast':99 'near':78 'pollut':9,15,92 'problem':30,83 'research':63 'said':7 'see':71 'seen':67 'sourc':104 'switch':34 'tailpip':14 'tire':8,26,43,91,100 'valid':59 've':66 'wear':44 'wors':4,12 'www.forbes.com':24 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':23 'www.theguardian.com':17 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':16"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767893"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719642 {#1728
          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111836
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1741 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
        +lang: "en"
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        +favouriteCount: 11
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@corey389@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 112328
        -bodyTs: "'bad':38 'better':23 'biggest':46 'capita':9 'car':14,41 'caus':33 'compar':18 'damag':36 'distanc':6 'environment':35 'ev':2,50 'ice':20 'killer':47 'land':39 'major':34 'make':52 'may':51 'mode':15 'non':13 'non-car':12 'one':25,43 'other':30 'particular':26 'per':5,8 'problem':54 'still':32 'transport':17 'use':40 'way':27 'worldwid':48 'wors':4,28,55"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770565"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699850987 {#1716
          date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726562 {#1717
          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112328
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2457 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
          \n
          *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
          \n
          edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2454 …}
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        -id: 112348
        -bodyTs: "'air':95 'also':87 'aren':23 'argu':20 'argument':84 'away':72 'bad':46 'better':25,112 'brake':10 'car':39,74 'chang':59 'climat':28,36,58 'contribut':100 'contributor':56 'could':117 'doubt':108 'dust':6,11 'edit':85 'effect':104 'emiss':44 'encourag':77 'ev':22 'greenhous':103 'harm':37 'haven':88 'ice':30,78,114 'idea':65 'inan':83 'land':47 'liter':16 'lot':33,51 'major':55 'matter':97 'move':71 'much':94 'one':18 'park':50 'particul':96 'pavement':49 'push':69 'seen':90 'signific':120 'sprawl':53 'still':111,118 'studi':91 'tailpip':43 'talk':3 'tire':5,99 'typo':15 'understand':63 'urban':52 'use':48,79 'wors':8"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770668"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699851345 {#2460
          date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726842 {#2453
          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112348
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2364 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
          \n
          Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 112408
        -bodyTs: "'actual':70 'air':21,30 'also':27,86 'away':91 'bad':67 'car':81,93 'care':54 'confus':7 'consequ':32 'drink':40 'effect':68 'environ':43,57 'etc':46 'ev':62,73,83 'everi':79 'everyon':52 'favor':60 'food':38 'ice':64 'increas':71 'leak':35 'link':16 'matter':51 'mean':9 'microplast':34 'need':76,87 'non':29 'non-air':28 'ocean':45 'pollut':22,31 're':2 'remain':80 'research':14 'right':3 'say':11 'small':50 'societi':90 'suppli':39 'tire':24 'transit':78,89 'use':74 'water':41 'wrote':5"
        +ranking: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770950"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727556 {#2359
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112408
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926}
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 5
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699728041 {#2393
          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
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        -id: 112447
        -bodyTs: "'actual':16 'alway':28 'ask':14 'especi':22 'expect':8 'hot':23 'idea':21 'like':25 'm':2 'petrol':26 'reason':17 'superior':30 'support':19 'sure':4 'take':24 'unreason':12"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4771134"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699728041 {#1384
          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112447
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
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          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 113000
        -bodyTs: "'300':39 'absurd':25 'also':42 'batteri':27 'benefit':55 'big':10 'car':13 'case':31 'commut':36 'consum':41 'daili':35 'demand':23 'didn':21 'effici':50 'even':32 'explod':17 'heavier':3 'high':26 'instead':48 'mile':40 'much':2 'negat':51 'peopl':20 'power':47 'problem':11 'rang':28 'seem':43 'size':14 'though':33 'transit':58 'unnecessari':46 'want':45 'weren':15 'wouldn':5 'yes':1"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4774086"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699736149 {#2032
          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113000
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@floofloof@lemmy.ca"
        ]
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        -id: 113349
        -bodyTs: "'bigger':34 'car':16 'consum':25 'effici':28 'engin':32 'europ':6 'extra':27 'increas':19 'keep':18 'might':2 'optimist':11 'power':31 'rang':35 'seem':21 'size':17 'us':14 'want':23"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 113349
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    ]
    -id: 11788
    -titleTs: "'also':2 'tesla':3 'yes':1"
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699633009 {#1696
      date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410 …}
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  +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
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    "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
    "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
    "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
    "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
    "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
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  -id: 112413
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    date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 112413
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
40 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
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    +slug: "Yes-also-Teslas"
    +title: "Yes, also Teslas"
    +url: "https://media.mastodon.scot/mastodon-scot-public/media_attachments/files/111/386/122/832/701/352/original/adf530561fcd6b97.jpg"
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      date: 2023-11-15 19:58:09.0 +01:00
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3047 …}
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
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        +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
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          "@fiah@discuss.tchncs.de"
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          date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1550 …}
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        +body: """
          But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
          \n
          If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@thantik@lemmy.world"
          "@cestvrai@lemm.ee"
          "@Buffaloaf@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 109960
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596
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        +body: """
          But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
          \n
          **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
          \n
          [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
          \n
          [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
          \n
          > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
          \n
          According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
          """
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-14 01:51:43.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
        }
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      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
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        +body: """
          Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
          \n
          > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
          \n
          **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
          """
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 111797
        -bodyTs: "'/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':20 '1':35 '850':36 'agre':87 'bad':99 'batteri':52 'better':91 'brake':8 'carbuzz.com':19 'carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':18 'chang':94 'climat':93 'comprehens':22 'drive':29 'dust':9 'edit':71 'effect':84 'electr':56 'emiss':17,31,43 'environ':102 'equival':41 'ev':89,96 'everyday':28 'exhaust':42 'expert':85 'fit':54 'found':25 'greater':38 'greenhous':83 'heavier':51 'increas':59 'made':47 'mass':61 'might':12 'much':5 'overwhelm':86 'pack':53 'particul':30,79 'place':65 'pollut':11 'say':76 'still':98 'strain':67 'studi':23 'tailpip':16 'time':37 'tire':10,33,70,78 'turn':64 'vehicl':57,60 'wors':6,14,48"
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          date: 2023-11-14 10:08:01.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
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      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736
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        +body: """
          It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
          \n
          [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 111836
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':18 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':25 '20':48 '50':56 'accord':38,49 'alreadi':28 'also':60 'anoth':19 'anyth':72 'articl':20,87 'bad':90 'big':80 'biggest':103 'brake':75 'car':37 'dozen':85 'dust':76 'electr':36 'even':3,11,97 'forb':22 'goodyear':51 'increas':42 'liter':84 'm':69,95 'mention':98 'michelin':40 'microplast':99 'near':78 'pollut':9,15,92 'problem':30,83 'research':63 'said':7 'see':71 'seen':67 'sourc':104 'switch':34 'tailpip':14 'tire':8,26,43,91,100 'valid':59 've':66 'wear':44 'wors':4,12 'www.forbes.com':24 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':23 'www.theguardian.com':17 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':16"
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 111836
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@corey389@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
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        +body: """
          I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
          \n
          *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
          \n
          edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
          """
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112348
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
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        +body: """
          You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
          \n
          Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
          """
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770950"
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112408
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926}
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
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        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2019 …}
        -id: 112447
        -bodyTs: "'actual':16 'alway':28 'ask':14 'especi':22 'expect':8 'hot':23 'idea':21 'like':25 'm':2 'petrol':26 'reason':17 'superior':30 'support':19 'sure':4 'take':24 'unreason':12"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112447
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699736149 {#2030
          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2022 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2025 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2033 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2028 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2012 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2013 …}
        -id: 113000
        -bodyTs: "'300':39 'absurd':25 'also':42 'batteri':27 'benefit':55 'big':10 'car':13 'case':31 'commut':36 'consum':41 'daili':35 'demand':23 'didn':21 'effici':50 'even':32 'explod':17 'heavier':3 'high':26 'instead':48 'mile':40 'much':2 'negat':51 'peopl':20 'power':47 'problem':11 'rang':28 'seem':43 'size':14 'though':33 'transit':58 'unnecessari':46 'want':45 'weren':15 'wouldn':5 'yes':1"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4774086"
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          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113000
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699743269 {#2035
          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
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        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@floofloof@lemmy.ca"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2144 …}
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        -id: 113349
        -bodyTs: "'bigger':34 'car':16 'consum':25 'effici':28 'engin':32 'europ':6 'extra':27 'increas':19 'keep':18 'might':2 'optimist':11 'power':31 'rang':35 'seem':21 'size':17 'us':14 'want':23"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
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          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113349
      }
    ]
    -id: 11788
    -titleTs: "'also':2 'tesla':3 'yes':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
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    +ranking: 1699719409
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699633009 {#1696
      date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
  +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 6
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1699727603 {#1909
    date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
  }
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    "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
    "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
    "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
    "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
    "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
    "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
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  -id: 112413
  -bodyTs: "'argument':5 'declar':9"
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  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727603 {#1708
    date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 112413
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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41 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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42 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
  +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1979 …}
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3020 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3048 …}
    +slug: "Yes-also-Teslas"
    +title: "Yes, also Teslas"
    +url: "https://media.mastodon.scot/mastodon-scot-public/media_attachments/files/111/386/122/832/701/352/original/adf530561fcd6b97.jpg"
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      date: 2023-11-15 19:58:09.0 +01:00
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3047 …}
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    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@HonoraryMancunian@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@fiah@discuss.tchncs.de"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1671 …}
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        -id: 109758
        -bodyTs: "'car':14 'chang':17 'dead':19 'doesn':15 'go':3 'hit':24 'mind':11 'say':5 'without':4"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4754096"
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          date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 109758
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1550 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1561 …}
        +body: """
          But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
          \n
          If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
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          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@thantik@lemmy.world"
          "@cestvrai@lemm.ee"
          "@Buffaloaf@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1525 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1566 …}
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        -id: 109960
        -bodyTs: "'also':9 'amount':31 'anyth':23 'bring':38 'bunch':12 'car':14 'cargo':3,36,40 'caus':34 'defens':47 'drive':10 'ev':27,49 'exist':5 'heavi':26 'increas':29 'make':42 'orthogon':21 'pollut':33 're':8 'sens':44 'ship':4,37,41 'switch':24 'total':20 'whether':6"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4756392"
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          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 109960
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
          \n
          **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
          \n
          [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
          \n
          [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
          \n
          > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
          \n
          According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 20
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699718733 {#1620
          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1705 …}
        -id: 111756
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':47 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':121 '/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':64 '20':144 '50':152 'accord':114,134,145 'adopt':109 'air':13 'alreadi':124 'also':156,182 'america':106 'articl':26,41,61,118 'atlant':60 'away':190 'begin':107 'better':170 'bigger':10 'brake':18 'car':111,133,175,192 'clear':167 'danger':86 'deepen':84 'depend':193 'discuss':65 'dozen':24 'dust':5,19 'edit':20,164 'electr':110,132 'en':112 'ev':29,70,72,90,168,179,181 'everi':174 'exhaust':58 'forb':117 'generat':80 'get':103 'goodyear':147 'guardian':44 'heavier':77 'ice':37,172 'increas':3,68,138 'liter':23 'mass':113 'massiv':2 'michelin':136 'model':73 'much':9,50 'need':187 'new':71 'one':98 'particul':34,53,67,82 'pois':101 'pollut':16,35,54,95 'problem':96,126 'produc':31 'quicker':79 'research':159 'seen':163 'sourc':11 'still':186 'suck':183 'switch':130 'tailpip':57 'tend':74 'tire':4,33,66,94,122,139 'tire-pollut':93 'transit':189 'tyre':52 'valid':155 've':162 'water':15 'wear':140 'word':89 'wors':51,104 'www.forbes.com':120 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':119 'www.theatlantic.com':63 'www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':62 'www.theguardian.com':46 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':45"
        +ranking: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767533"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699923103 {#1613
          date: 2023-11-14 01:51:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699718733 {#1604
          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111756
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1629 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
          \n
          > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
          \n
          **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 11
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1628 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1599 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1725 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1722 …}
        -id: 111797
        -bodyTs: "'/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':20 '1':35 '850':36 'agre':87 'bad':99 'batteri':52 'better':91 'brake':8 'carbuzz.com':19 'carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':18 'chang':94 'climat':93 'comprehens':22 'drive':29 'dust':9 'edit':71 'effect':84 'electr':56 'emiss':17,31,43 'environ':102 'equival':41 'ev':89,96 'everyday':28 'exhaust':42 'expert':85 'fit':54 'found':25 'greater':38 'greenhous':83 'heavier':51 'increas':59 'made':47 'mass':61 'might':12 'much':5 'overwhelm':86 'pack':53 'particul':30,79 'place':65 'pollut':11 'say':76 'still':98 'strain':67 'studi':23 'tailpip':16 'time':37 'tire':10,33,70,78 'turn':64 'vehicl':57,60 'wors':6,14,48"
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          date: 2023-11-14 10:08:01.0 +01:00
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 111797
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
          \n
          [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 16
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699719642 {#1726
          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1737 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1732 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1735 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1729 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1719 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1714 …}
        -id: 111836
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':18 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':25 '20':48 '50':56 'accord':38,49 'alreadi':28 'also':60 'anoth':19 'anyth':72 'articl':20,87 'bad':90 'big':80 'biggest':103 'brake':75 'car':37 'dozen':85 'dust':76 'electr':36 'even':3,11,97 'forb':22 'goodyear':51 'increas':42 'liter':84 'm':69,95 'mention':98 'michelin':40 'microplast':99 'near':78 'pollut':9,15,92 'problem':30,83 'research':63 'said':7 'see':71 'seen':67 'sourc':104 'switch':34 'tailpip':14 'tire':8,26,43,91,100 'valid':59 've':66 'wear':44 'wors':4,12 'www.forbes.com':24 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':23 'www.theguardian.com':17 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':16"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767893"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719642 {#1728
          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111836
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1741 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 11
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699726562 {#1720
          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@corey389@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 112328
        -bodyTs: "'bad':38 'better':23 'biggest':46 'capita':9 'car':14,41 'caus':33 'compar':18 'damag':36 'distanc':6 'environment':35 'ev':2,50 'ice':20 'killer':47 'land':39 'major':34 'make':52 'may':51 'mode':15 'non':13 'non-car':12 'one':25,43 'other':30 'particular':26 'per':5,8 'problem':54 'still':32 'transport':17 'use':40 'way':27 'worldwid':48 'wors':4,28,55"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770565"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699850987 {#1716
          date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726562 {#1717
          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112328
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2457 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
          \n
          *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
          \n
          edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2454 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2459 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2470 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2467 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2371 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2370 …}
        -id: 112348
        -bodyTs: "'air':95 'also':87 'aren':23 'argu':20 'argument':84 'away':72 'bad':46 'better':25,112 'brake':10 'car':39,74 'chang':59 'climat':28,36,58 'contribut':100 'contributor':56 'could':117 'doubt':108 'dust':6,11 'edit':85 'effect':104 'emiss':44 'encourag':77 'ev':22 'greenhous':103 'harm':37 'haven':88 'ice':30,78,114 'idea':65 'inan':83 'land':47 'liter':16 'lot':33,51 'major':55 'matter':97 'move':71 'much':94 'one':18 'park':50 'particul':96 'pavement':49 'push':69 'seen':90 'signific':120 'sprawl':53 'still':111,118 'studi':91 'tailpip':43 'talk':3 'tire':5,99 'typo':15 'understand':63 'urban':52 'use':48,79 'wors':8"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770668"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699851345 {#2460
          date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726842 {#2453
          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112348
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2364 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
          \n
          Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1910 …}
        -id: 112408
        -bodyTs: "'actual':70 'air':21,30 'also':27,86 'away':91 'bad':67 'car':81,93 'care':54 'confus':7 'consequ':32 'drink':40 'effect':68 'environ':43,57 'etc':46 'ev':62,73,83 'everi':79 'everyon':52 'favor':60 'food':38 'ice':64 'increas':71 'leak':35 'link':16 'matter':51 'mean':9 'microplast':34 'need':76,87 'non':29 'non-air':28 'ocean':45 'pollut':22,31 're':2 'remain':80 'research':14 'right':3 'say':11 'small':50 'societi':90 'suppli':39 'tire':24 'transit':78,89 'use':74 'water':41 'wrote':5"
        +ranking: 0
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        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770950"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727556 {#2359
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112408
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727603 {#1909
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2387 …}
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        -id: 112413
        -bodyTs: "'argument':5 'declar':9"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770963"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727603 {#1708
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112413
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381}
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699736149 {#2030
          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2022 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2025 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2012 …}
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        -id: 113000
        -bodyTs: "'300':39 'absurd':25 'also':42 'batteri':27 'benefit':55 'big':10 'car':13 'case':31 'commut':36 'consum':41 'daili':35 'demand':23 'didn':21 'effici':50 'even':32 'explod':17 'heavier':3 'high':26 'instead':48 'mile':40 'much':2 'negat':51 'peopl':20 'power':47 'problem':11 'rang':28 'seem':43 'size':14 'though':33 'transit':58 'unnecessari':46 'want':45 'weren':15 'wouldn':5 'yes':1"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4774086"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699736149 {#2032
          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113000
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699743269 {#2035
          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@floofloof@lemmy.ca"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2144 …}
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        -id: 113349
        -bodyTs: "'bigger':34 'car':16 'consum':25 'effici':28 'engin':32 'europ':6 'extra':27 'increas':19 'keep':18 'might':2 'optimist':11 'power':31 'rang':35 'seem':21 'size':17 'us':14 'want':23"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4776307"
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          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113349
      }
    ]
    -id: 11788
    -titleTs: "'also':2 'tesla':3 'yes':1"
    -bodyTs: null
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    +upVotes: 0
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    +ranking: 1699719409
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    +apId: "https://mander.xyz/post/6008655"
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699633009 {#1696
      date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
  +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 5
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    date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
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    "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
    "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
    "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
    "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
    "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
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  -id: 112447
  -bodyTs: "'actual':16 'alway':28 'ask':14 'especi':22 'expect':8 'hot':23 'idea':21 'like':25 'm':2 'petrol':26 'reason':17 'superior':30 'support':19 'sure':4 'take':24 'unreason':12"
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    date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 112447
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
43 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
  +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1979 …}
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3020 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3048 …}
    +slug: "Yes-also-Teslas"
    +title: "Yes, also Teslas"
    +url: "https://media.mastodon.scot/mastodon-scot-public/media_attachments/files/111/386/122/832/701/352/original/adf530561fcd6b97.jpg"
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      date: 2023-11-15 19:58:09.0 +01:00
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3047 …}
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    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@HonoraryMancunian@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@fiah@discuss.tchncs.de"
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        -id: 109758
        -bodyTs: "'car':14 'chang':17 'dead':19 'doesn':15 'go':3 'hit':24 'mind':11 'say':5 'without':4"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699667552 {#1438
          date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 109758
      }
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        +body: """
          But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
          \n
          If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
          """
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          "@thantik@lemmy.world"
          "@cestvrai@lemm.ee"
          "@Buffaloaf@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
        }
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      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596
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        +body: """
          But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
          \n
          **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
          \n
          [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
          \n
          [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
          \n
          > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
          \n
          According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-14 01:51:43.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
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      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
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        +body: """
          Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
          \n
          > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
          \n
          **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
          """
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 111797
        -bodyTs: "'/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':20 '1':35 '850':36 'agre':87 'bad':99 'batteri':52 'better':91 'brake':8 'carbuzz.com':19 'carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':18 'chang':94 'climat':93 'comprehens':22 'drive':29 'dust':9 'edit':71 'effect':84 'electr':56 'emiss':17,31,43 'environ':102 'equival':41 'ev':89,96 'everyday':28 'exhaust':42 'expert':85 'fit':54 'found':25 'greater':38 'greenhous':83 'heavier':51 'increas':59 'made':47 'mass':61 'might':12 'much':5 'overwhelm':86 'pack':53 'particul':30,79 'place':65 'pollut':11 'say':76 'still':98 'strain':67 'studi':23 'tailpip':16 'time':37 'tire':10,33,70,78 'turn':64 'vehicl':57,60 'wors':6,14,48"
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          date: 2023-11-14 10:08:01.0 +01:00
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        +body: """
          It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
          \n
          [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
          """
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          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        +"title": 111836
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@corey389@lemmy.world"
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          date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
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        +body: """
          I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
          \n
          *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
          \n
          edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
          """
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
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      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
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        +body: """
          You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
          \n
          Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
          """
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          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
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        +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
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        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
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        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
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        -id: 112413
        -bodyTs: "'argument':5 'declar':9"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770963"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727603 {#1708
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112413
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381}
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699736149 {#2030
          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2022 …}
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        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2013 …}
        -id: 113000
        -bodyTs: "'300':39 'absurd':25 'also':42 'batteri':27 'benefit':55 'big':10 'car':13 'case':31 'commut':36 'consum':41 'daili':35 'demand':23 'didn':21 'effici':50 'even':32 'explod':17 'heavier':3 'high':26 'instead':48 'mile':40 'much':2 'negat':51 'peopl':20 'power':47 'problem':11 'rang':28 'seem':43 'size':14 'though':33 'transit':58 'unnecessari':46 'want':45 'weren':15 'wouldn':5 'yes':1"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699736149 {#2032
          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113000
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@floofloof@lemmy.ca"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2144 …}
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        -id: 113349
        -bodyTs: "'bigger':34 'car':16 'consum':25 'effici':28 'engin':32 'europ':6 'extra':27 'increas':19 'keep':18 'might':2 'optimist':11 'power':31 'rang':35 'seem':21 'size':17 'us':14 'want':23"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4776307"
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          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113349
      }
    ]
    -id: 11788
    -titleTs: "'also':2 'tesla':3 'yes':1"
    -bodyTs: null
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    +upVotes: 0
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699633009 {#1696
      date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
  +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 5
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    date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
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    "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
    "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
    "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
    "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
    "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
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    date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
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  +"title": 112447
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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Show voter details
44 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
  +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1979 …}
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    +slug: "Yes-also-Teslas"
    +title: "Yes, also Teslas"
    +url: "https://media.mastodon.scot/mastodon-scot-public/media_attachments/files/111/386/122/832/701/352/original/adf530561fcd6b97.jpg"
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      date: 2023-11-15 19:58:09.0 +01:00
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    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@HonoraryMancunian@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@fiah@discuss.tchncs.de"
        ]
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        -id: 109758
        -bodyTs: "'car':14 'chang':17 'dead':19 'doesn':15 'go':3 'hit':24 'mind':11 'say':5 'without':4"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699667552 {#1438
          date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 109758
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1550 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1561 …}
        +body: """
          But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
          \n
          If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
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          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@thantik@lemmy.world"
          "@cestvrai@lemm.ee"
          "@Buffaloaf@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1525 …}
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        -id: 109960
        -bodyTs: "'also':9 'amount':31 'anyth':23 'bring':38 'bunch':12 'car':14 'cargo':3,36,40 'caus':34 'defens':47 'drive':10 'ev':27,49 'exist':5 'heavi':26 'increas':29 'make':42 'orthogon':21 'pollut':33 're':8 'sens':44 'ship':4,37,41 'switch':24 'total':20 'whether':6"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4756392"
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          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 109960
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
          \n
          **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
          \n
          [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
          \n
          [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
          \n
          > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
          \n
          According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
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        -id: 111756
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':47 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':121 '/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':64 '20':144 '50':152 'accord':114,134,145 'adopt':109 'air':13 'alreadi':124 'also':156,182 'america':106 'articl':26,41,61,118 'atlant':60 'away':190 'begin':107 'better':170 'bigger':10 'brake':18 'car':111,133,175,192 'clear':167 'danger':86 'deepen':84 'depend':193 'discuss':65 'dozen':24 'dust':5,19 'edit':20,164 'electr':110,132 'en':112 'ev':29,70,72,90,168,179,181 'everi':174 'exhaust':58 'forb':117 'generat':80 'get':103 'goodyear':147 'guardian':44 'heavier':77 'ice':37,172 'increas':3,68,138 'liter':23 'mass':113 'massiv':2 'michelin':136 'model':73 'much':9,50 'need':187 'new':71 'one':98 'particul':34,53,67,82 'pois':101 'pollut':16,35,54,95 'problem':96,126 'produc':31 'quicker':79 'research':159 'seen':163 'sourc':11 'still':186 'suck':183 'switch':130 'tailpip':57 'tend':74 'tire':4,33,66,94,122,139 'tire-pollut':93 'transit':189 'tyre':52 'valid':155 've':162 'water':15 'wear':140 'word':89 'wors':51,104 'www.forbes.com':120 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':119 'www.theatlantic.com':63 'www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':62 'www.theguardian.com':46 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':45"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767533"
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          date: 2023-11-14 01:51:43.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111756
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1629 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
          \n
          > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
          \n
          **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1628 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1599 …}
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        -id: 111797
        -bodyTs: "'/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':20 '1':35 '850':36 'agre':87 'bad':99 'batteri':52 'better':91 'brake':8 'carbuzz.com':19 'carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':18 'chang':94 'climat':93 'comprehens':22 'drive':29 'dust':9 'edit':71 'effect':84 'electr':56 'emiss':17,31,43 'environ':102 'equival':41 'ev':89,96 'everyday':28 'exhaust':42 'expert':85 'fit':54 'found':25 'greater':38 'greenhous':83 'heavier':51 'increas':59 'made':47 'mass':61 'might':12 'much':5 'overwhelm':86 'pack':53 'particul':30,79 'place':65 'pollut':11 'say':76 'still':98 'strain':67 'studi':23 'tailpip':16 'time':37 'tire':10,33,70,78 'turn':64 'vehicl':57,60 'wors':6,14,48"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767705"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699952881 {#1611
          date: 2023-11-14 10:08:01.0 +01:00
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 111797
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
          \n
          [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1737 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1732 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1735 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1729 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1719 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1714 …}
        -id: 111836
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':18 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':25 '20':48 '50':56 'accord':38,49 'alreadi':28 'also':60 'anoth':19 'anyth':72 'articl':20,87 'bad':90 'big':80 'biggest':103 'brake':75 'car':37 'dozen':85 'dust':76 'electr':36 'even':3,11,97 'forb':22 'goodyear':51 'increas':42 'liter':84 'm':69,95 'mention':98 'michelin':40 'microplast':99 'near':78 'pollut':9,15,92 'problem':30,83 'research':63 'said':7 'see':71 'seen':67 'sourc':104 'switch':34 'tailpip':14 'tire':8,26,43,91,100 'valid':59 've':66 'wear':44 'wors':4,12 'www.forbes.com':24 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':23 'www.theguardian.com':17 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':16"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767893"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719642 {#1728
          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111836
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1741 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 11
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699726562 {#1720
          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@corey389@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
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        -id: 112328
        -bodyTs: "'bad':38 'better':23 'biggest':46 'capita':9 'car':14,41 'caus':33 'compar':18 'damag':36 'distanc':6 'environment':35 'ev':2,50 'ice':20 'killer':47 'land':39 'major':34 'make':52 'may':51 'mode':15 'non':13 'non-car':12 'one':25,43 'other':30 'particular':26 'per':5,8 'problem':54 'still':32 'transport':17 'use':40 'way':27 'worldwid':48 'wors':4,28,55"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770565"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699850987 {#1716
          date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726562 {#1717
          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112328
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2457 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
          \n
          *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
          \n
          edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699726842 {#2456
          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2454 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2459 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2470 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2467 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2371 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2370 …}
        -id: 112348
        -bodyTs: "'air':95 'also':87 'aren':23 'argu':20 'argument':84 'away':72 'bad':46 'better':25,112 'brake':10 'car':39,74 'chang':59 'climat':28,36,58 'contribut':100 'contributor':56 'could':117 'doubt':108 'dust':6,11 'edit':85 'effect':104 'emiss':44 'encourag':77 'ev':22 'greenhous':103 'harm':37 'haven':88 'ice':30,78,114 'idea':65 'inan':83 'land':47 'liter':16 'lot':33,51 'major':55 'matter':97 'move':71 'much':94 'one':18 'park':50 'particul':96 'pavement':49 'push':69 'seen':90 'signific':120 'sprawl':53 'still':111,118 'studi':91 'tailpip':43 'talk':3 'tire':5,99 'typo':15 'understand':63 'urban':52 'use':48,79 'wors':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770668"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699851345 {#2460
          date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726842 {#2453
          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112348
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2364 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
          \n
          Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727556 {#2360
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2372 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2386 …}
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        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2378 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2381 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1910 …}
        -id: 112408
        -bodyTs: "'actual':70 'air':21,30 'also':27,86 'away':91 'bad':67 'car':81,93 'care':54 'confus':7 'consequ':32 'drink':40 'effect':68 'environ':43,57 'etc':46 'ev':62,73,83 'everi':79 'everyon':52 'favor':60 'food':38 'ice':64 'increas':71 'leak':35 'link':16 'matter':51 'mean':9 'microplast':34 'need':76,87 'non':29 'non-air':28 'ocean':45 'pollut':22,31 're':2 'remain':80 'research':14 'right':3 'say':11 'small':50 'societi':90 'suppli':39 'tire':24 'transit':78,89 'use':74 'water':41 'wrote':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770950"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727556 {#2359
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112408
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727603 {#1909
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2387 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2394 …}
        -id: 112413
        -bodyTs: "'argument':5 'declar':9"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770963"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727603 {#1708
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112413
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381}
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699736149 {#2030
          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2022 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2025 …}
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        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2028 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2012 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2013 …}
        -id: 113000
        -bodyTs: "'300':39 'absurd':25 'also':42 'batteri':27 'benefit':55 'big':10 'car':13 'case':31 'commut':36 'consum':41 'daili':35 'demand':23 'didn':21 'effici':50 'even':32 'explod':17 'heavier':3 'high':26 'instead':48 'mile':40 'much':2 'negat':51 'peopl':20 'power':47 'problem':11 'rang':28 'seem':43 'size':14 'though':33 'transit':58 'unnecessari':46 'want':45 'weren':15 'wouldn':5 'yes':1"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4774086"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699736149 {#2032
          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113000
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699743269 {#2035
          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@floofloof@lemmy.ca"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2144 …}
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        -id: 113349
        -bodyTs: "'bigger':34 'car':16 'consum':25 'effici':28 'engin':32 'europ':6 'extra':27 'increas':19 'keep':18 'might':2 'optimist':11 'power':31 'rang':35 'seem':21 'size':17 'us':14 'want':23"
        +ranking: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4776307"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699743269 {#2031
          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113349
      }
    ]
    -id: 11788
    -titleTs: "'also':2 'tesla':3 'yes':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1699719409
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://mander.xyz/post/6008655"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699633009 {#1696
      date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
  +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 5
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    date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
  }
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    "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
    "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
    "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
    "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
    "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
    "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
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  -id: 112447
  -bodyTs: "'actual':16 'alway':28 'ask':14 'especi':22 'expect':8 'hot':23 'idea':21 'like':25 'm':2 'petrol':26 'reason':17 'superior':30 'support':19 'sure':4 'take':24 'unreason':12"
  +ranking: 0
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  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699728041 {#1384
    date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 112447
}
 
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46 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
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  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3020 …}
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    +slug: "Yes-also-Teslas"
    +title: "Yes, also Teslas"
    +url: "https://media.mastodon.scot/mastodon-scot-public/media_attachments/files/111/386/122/832/701/352/original/adf530561fcd6b97.jpg"
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
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        +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
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          "@HonoraryMancunian@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@fiah@discuss.tchncs.de"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1671 …}
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        -id: 109758
        -bodyTs: "'car':14 'chang':17 'dead':19 'doesn':15 'go':3 'hit':24 'mind':11 'say':5 'without':4"
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          date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 109758
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +body: """
          But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
          \n
          If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
          """
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@thantik@lemmy.world"
          "@cestvrai@lemm.ee"
          "@Buffaloaf@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 109960
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596
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        +body: """
          But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
          \n
          **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
          \n
          [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
          \n
          [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
          \n
          > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
          \n
          According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
          """
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 111756
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          date: 2023-11-14 01:51:43.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111756
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
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        +body: """
          Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
          \n
          > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
          \n
          **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 111797
        -bodyTs: "'/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':20 '1':35 '850':36 'agre':87 'bad':99 'batteri':52 'better':91 'brake':8 'carbuzz.com':19 'carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':18 'chang':94 'climat':93 'comprehens':22 'drive':29 'dust':9 'edit':71 'effect':84 'electr':56 'emiss':17,31,43 'environ':102 'equival':41 'ev':89,96 'everyday':28 'exhaust':42 'expert':85 'fit':54 'found':25 'greater':38 'greenhous':83 'heavier':51 'increas':59 'made':47 'mass':61 'might':12 'much':5 'overwhelm':86 'pack':53 'particul':30,79 'place':65 'pollut':11 'say':76 'still':98 'strain':67 'studi':23 'tailpip':16 'time':37 'tire':10,33,70,78 'turn':64 'vehicl':57,60 'wors':6,14,48"
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          date: 2023-11-14 10:08:01.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736
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        +body: """
          It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
          \n
          [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 111836
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':18 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':25 '20':48 '50':56 'accord':38,49 'alreadi':28 'also':60 'anoth':19 'anyth':72 'articl':20,87 'bad':90 'big':80 'biggest':103 'brake':75 'car':37 'dozen':85 'dust':76 'electr':36 'even':3,11,97 'forb':22 'goodyear':51 'increas':42 'liter':84 'm':69,95 'mention':98 'michelin':40 'microplast':99 'near':78 'pollut':9,15,92 'problem':30,83 'research':63 'said':7 'see':71 'seen':67 'sourc':104 'switch':34 'tailpip':14 'tire':8,26,43,91,100 'valid':59 've':66 'wear':44 'wors':4,12 'www.forbes.com':24 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':23 'www.theguardian.com':17 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':16"
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 111836
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@corey389@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770565"
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          date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
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        +body: """
          I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
          \n
          *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
          \n
          edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
          """
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
        ]
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770668"
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          date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112348
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
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        +body: """
          You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
          \n
          Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
          """
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 112408
        -bodyTs: "'actual':70 'air':21,30 'also':27,86 'away':91 'bad':67 'car':81,93 'care':54 'confus':7 'consequ':32 'drink':40 'effect':68 'environ':43,57 'etc':46 'ev':62,73,83 'everi':79 'everyon':52 'favor':60 'food':38 'ice':64 'increas':71 'leak':35 'link':16 'matter':51 'mean':9 'microplast':34 'need':76,87 'non':29 'non-air':28 'ocean':45 'pollut':22,31 're':2 'remain':80 'research':14 'right':3 'say':11 'small':50 'societi':90 'suppli':39 'tire':24 'transit':78,89 'use':74 'water':41 'wrote':5"
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 112408
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
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        +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2387 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2394 …}
        -id: 112413
        -bodyTs: "'argument':5 'declar':9"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770963"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727603 {#1708
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112413
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 5
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699728041 {#2393
          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1385 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1401 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1363 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1362 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2019 …}
        -id: 112447
        -bodyTs: "'actual':16 'alway':28 'ask':14 'especi':22 'expect':8 'hot':23 'idea':21 'like':25 'm':2 'petrol':26 'reason':17 'superior':30 'support':19 'sure':4 'take':24 'unreason':12"
        +ranking: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4771134"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699728041 {#1384
          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112447
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026}
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699743269 {#2035
          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@floofloof@lemmy.ca"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2144 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2061 …}
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        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2076 …}
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        -id: 113349
        -bodyTs: "'bigger':34 'car':16 'consum':25 'effici':28 'engin':32 'europ':6 'extra':27 'increas':19 'keep':18 'might':2 'optimist':11 'power':31 'rang':35 'seem':21 'size':17 'us':14 'want':23"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4776307"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699743269 {#2031
          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113349
      }
    ]
    -id: 11788
    -titleTs: "'also':2 'tesla':3 'yes':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1699719409
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://mander.xyz/post/6008655"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699633009 {#1696
      date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
  +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 8
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1699736149 {#2030
    date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
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  +mentions: [
    "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
    "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
    "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
    "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
    "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2022 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2025 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2033 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2028 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2012 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2013 …}
  -id: 113000
  -bodyTs: "'300':39 'absurd':25 'also':42 'batteri':27 'benefit':55 'big':10 'car':13 'case':31 'commut':36 'consum':41 'daili':35 'demand':23 'didn':21 'effici':50 'even':32 'explod':17 'heavier':3 'high':26 'instead':48 'mile':40 'much':2 'negat':51 'peopl':20 'power':47 'problem':11 'rang':28 'seem':43 'size':14 'though':33 'transit':58 'unnecessari':46 'want':45 'weren':15 'wouldn':5 'yes':1"
  +ranking: 0
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  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699736149 {#2032
    date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 113000
}
 
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Show voter details
47 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
  +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1979 …}
    +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3020 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3048 …}
    +slug: "Yes-also-Teslas"
    +title: "Yes, also Teslas"
    +url: "https://media.mastodon.scot/mastodon-scot-public/media_attachments/files/111/386/122/832/701/352/original/adf530561fcd6b97.jpg"
    +body: null
    +type: "image"
    +lang: "en"
    +isOc: false
    +hasEmbed: true
    +commentCount: 342
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    +lastActive: DateTime @1700074689 {#2016
      date: 2023-11-15 19:58:09.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3047 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3045 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3042 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3076 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3072 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3089 …}
    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 12
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@HonoraryMancunian@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@fiah@discuss.tchncs.de"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1671 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1667 …}
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        -id: 109758
        -bodyTs: "'car':14 'chang':17 'dead':19 'doesn':15 'go':3 'hit':24 'mind':11 'say':5 'without':4"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4754096"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699667552 {#1438
          date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 109758
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1550 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1561 …}
        +body: """
          But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
          \n
          If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699673663 {#1579
          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@thantik@lemmy.world"
          "@cestvrai@lemm.ee"
          "@Buffaloaf@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1525 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1566 …}
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        -id: 109960
        -bodyTs: "'also':9 'amount':31 'anyth':23 'bring':38 'bunch':12 'car':14 'cargo':3,36,40 'caus':34 'defens':47 'drive':10 'ev':27,49 'exist':5 'heavi':26 'increas':29 'make':42 'orthogon':21 'pollut':33 're':8 'sens':44 'ship':4,37,41 'switch':24 'total':20 'whether':6"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4756392"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699673663 {#1559
          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 109960
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
          \n
          **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
          \n
          [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
          \n
          [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
          \n
          > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
          \n
          According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 20
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699718733 {#1620
          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1686 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1705 …}
        -id: 111756
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':47 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':121 '/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':64 '20':144 '50':152 'accord':114,134,145 'adopt':109 'air':13 'alreadi':124 'also':156,182 'america':106 'articl':26,41,61,118 'atlant':60 'away':190 'begin':107 'better':170 'bigger':10 'brake':18 'car':111,133,175,192 'clear':167 'danger':86 'deepen':84 'depend':193 'discuss':65 'dozen':24 'dust':5,19 'edit':20,164 'electr':110,132 'en':112 'ev':29,70,72,90,168,179,181 'everi':174 'exhaust':58 'forb':117 'generat':80 'get':103 'goodyear':147 'guardian':44 'heavier':77 'ice':37,172 'increas':3,68,138 'liter':23 'mass':113 'massiv':2 'michelin':136 'model':73 'much':9,50 'need':187 'new':71 'one':98 'particul':34,53,67,82 'pois':101 'pollut':16,35,54,95 'problem':96,126 'produc':31 'quicker':79 'research':159 'seen':163 'sourc':11 'still':186 'suck':183 'switch':130 'tailpip':57 'tend':74 'tire':4,33,66,94,122,139 'tire-pollut':93 'transit':189 'tyre':52 'valid':155 've':162 'water':15 'wear':140 'word':89 'wors':51,104 'www.forbes.com':120 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':119 'www.theatlantic.com':63 'www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':62 'www.theguardian.com':46 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':45"
        +ranking: 0
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        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767533"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699923103 {#1613
          date: 2023-11-14 01:51:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699718733 {#1604
          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111756
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1629 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
          \n
          > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
          \n
          **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 11
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699719173 {#1616
          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1628 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1599 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1625 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1617 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1725 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1722 …}
        -id: 111797
        -bodyTs: "'/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':20 '1':35 '850':36 'agre':87 'bad':99 'batteri':52 'better':91 'brake':8 'carbuzz.com':19 'carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':18 'chang':94 'climat':93 'comprehens':22 'drive':29 'dust':9 'edit':71 'effect':84 'electr':56 'emiss':17,31,43 'environ':102 'equival':41 'ev':89,96 'everyday':28 'exhaust':42 'expert':85 'fit':54 'found':25 'greater':38 'greenhous':83 'heavier':51 'increas':59 'made':47 'mass':61 'might':12 'much':5 'overwhelm':86 'pack':53 'particul':30,79 'place':65 'pollut':11 'say':76 'still':98 'strain':67 'studi':23 'tailpip':16 'time':37 'tire':10,33,70,78 'turn':64 'vehicl':57,60 'wors':6,14,48"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767705"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699952881 {#1611
          date: 2023-11-14 10:08:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719173 {#1598
          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111797
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
          \n
          [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1737 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1732 …}
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        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1729 …}
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        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1714 …}
        -id: 111836
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':18 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':25 '20':48 '50':56 'accord':38,49 'alreadi':28 'also':60 'anoth':19 'anyth':72 'articl':20,87 'bad':90 'big':80 'biggest':103 'brake':75 'car':37 'dozen':85 'dust':76 'electr':36 'even':3,11,97 'forb':22 'goodyear':51 'increas':42 'liter':84 'm':69,95 'mention':98 'michelin':40 'microplast':99 'near':78 'pollut':9,15,92 'problem':30,83 'research':63 'said':7 'see':71 'seen':67 'sourc':104 'switch':34 'tailpip':14 'tire':8,26,43,91,100 'valid':59 've':66 'wear':44 'wors':4,12 'www.forbes.com':24 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':23 'www.theguardian.com':17 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':16"
        +ranking: 0
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719642 {#1728
          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111836
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1741 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 11
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@corey389@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
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        -id: 112328
        -bodyTs: "'bad':38 'better':23 'biggest':46 'capita':9 'car':14,41 'caus':33 'compar':18 'damag':36 'distanc':6 'environment':35 'ev':2,50 'ice':20 'killer':47 'land':39 'major':34 'make':52 'may':51 'mode':15 'non':13 'non-car':12 'one':25,43 'other':30 'particular':26 'per':5,8 'problem':54 'still':32 'transport':17 'use':40 'way':27 'worldwid':48 'wors':4,28,55"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770565"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699850987 {#1716
          date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726562 {#1717
          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112328
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2457 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
          \n
          *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
          \n
          edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2454 …}
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        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2370 …}
        -id: 112348
        -bodyTs: "'air':95 'also':87 'aren':23 'argu':20 'argument':84 'away':72 'bad':46 'better':25,112 'brake':10 'car':39,74 'chang':59 'climat':28,36,58 'contribut':100 'contributor':56 'could':117 'doubt':108 'dust':6,11 'edit':85 'effect':104 'emiss':44 'encourag':77 'ev':22 'greenhous':103 'harm':37 'haven':88 'ice':30,78,114 'idea':65 'inan':83 'land':47 'liter':16 'lot':33,51 'major':55 'matter':97 'move':71 'much':94 'one':18 'park':50 'particul':96 'pavement':49 'push':69 'seen':90 'signific':120 'sprawl':53 'still':111,118 'studi':91 'tailpip':43 'talk':3 'tire':5,99 'typo':15 'understand':63 'urban':52 'use':48,79 'wors':8"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770668"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699851345 {#2460
          date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726842 {#2453
          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112348
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2364 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
          \n
          Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2372 …}
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        -id: 112408
        -bodyTs: "'actual':70 'air':21,30 'also':27,86 'away':91 'bad':67 'car':81,93 'care':54 'confus':7 'consequ':32 'drink':40 'effect':68 'environ':43,57 'etc':46 'ev':62,73,83 'everi':79 'everyon':52 'favor':60 'food':38 'ice':64 'increas':71 'leak':35 'link':16 'matter':51 'mean':9 'microplast':34 'need':76,87 'non':29 'non-air':28 'ocean':45 'pollut':22,31 're':2 'remain':80 'research':14 'right':3 'say':11 'small':50 'societi':90 'suppli':39 'tire':24 'transit':78,89 'use':74 'water':41 'wrote':5"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770950"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727556 {#2359
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112408
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727603 {#1909
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
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        -id: 112413
        -bodyTs: "'argument':5 'declar':9"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770963"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727603 {#1708
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112413
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 5
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
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        -id: 112447
        -bodyTs: "'actual':16 'alway':28 'ask':14 'especi':22 'expect':8 'hot':23 'idea':21 'like':25 'm':2 'petrol':26 'reason':17 'superior':30 'support':19 'sure':4 'take':24 'unreason':12"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4771134"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699728041 {#1384
          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112447
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026}
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@floofloof@lemmy.ca"
        ]
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        -id: 113349
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        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4776307"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699743269 {#2031
          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113349
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    ]
    -id: 11788
    -titleTs: "'also':2 'tesla':3 'yes':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
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    +ranking: 1699719409
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://mander.xyz/post/6008655"
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699633009 {#1696
      date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
  +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
  +lang: "en"
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    date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
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    "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
    "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
    "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
    "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
    "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2022 …}
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  -id: 113000
  -bodyTs: "'300':39 'absurd':25 'also':42 'batteri':27 'benefit':55 'big':10 'car':13 'case':31 'commut':36 'consum':41 'daili':35 'demand':23 'didn':21 'effici':50 'even':32 'explod':17 'heavier':3 'high':26 'instead':48 'mile':40 'much':2 'negat':51 'peopl':20 'power':47 'problem':11 'rang':28 'seem':43 'size':14 'though':33 'transit':58 'unnecessari':46 'want':45 'weren':15 'wouldn':5 'yes':1"
  +ranking: 0
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    date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 113000
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
48 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
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    +slug: "Yes-also-Teslas"
    +title: "Yes, also Teslas"
    +url: "https://media.mastodon.scot/mastodon-scot-public/media_attachments/files/111/386/122/832/701/352/original/adf530561fcd6b97.jpg"
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      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
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        +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
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          "@fiah@discuss.tchncs.de"
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        -id: 109758
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          date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 109758
      }
      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +body: """
          But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
          \n
          If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
          """
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@thantik@lemmy.world"
          "@cestvrai@lemm.ee"
          "@Buffaloaf@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 109960
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          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 109960
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
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        +body: """
          But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
          \n
          **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
          \n
          [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
          \n
          [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
          \n
          > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
          \n
          According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
          """
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 111756
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767533"
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          date: 2023-11-14 01:51:43.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
        }
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      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
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        +body: """
          Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
          \n
          > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
          \n
          **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 111797
        -bodyTs: "'/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':20 '1':35 '850':36 'agre':87 'bad':99 'batteri':52 'better':91 'brake':8 'carbuzz.com':19 'carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':18 'chang':94 'climat':93 'comprehens':22 'drive':29 'dust':9 'edit':71 'effect':84 'electr':56 'emiss':17,31,43 'environ':102 'equival':41 'ev':89,96 'everyday':28 'exhaust':42 'expert':85 'fit':54 'found':25 'greater':38 'greenhous':83 'heavier':51 'increas':59 'made':47 'mass':61 'might':12 'much':5 'overwhelm':86 'pack':53 'particul':30,79 'place':65 'pollut':11 'say':76 'still':98 'strain':67 'studi':23 'tailpip':16 'time':37 'tire':10,33,70,78 'turn':64 'vehicl':57,60 'wors':6,14,48"
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          date: 2023-11-14 10:08:01.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
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      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736
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        +body: """
          It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
          \n
          [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 111836
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':18 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':25 '20':48 '50':56 'accord':38,49 'alreadi':28 'also':60 'anoth':19 'anyth':72 'articl':20,87 'bad':90 'big':80 'biggest':103 'brake':75 'car':37 'dozen':85 'dust':76 'electr':36 'even':3,11,97 'forb':22 'goodyear':51 'increas':42 'liter':84 'm':69,95 'mention':98 'michelin':40 'microplast':99 'near':78 'pollut':9,15,92 'problem':30,83 'research':63 'said':7 'see':71 'seen':67 'sourc':104 'switch':34 'tailpip':14 'tire':8,26,43,91,100 'valid':59 've':66 'wear':44 'wors':4,12 'www.forbes.com':24 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':23 'www.theguardian.com':17 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':16"
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111836
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@corey389@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770565"
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          date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
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        +body: """
          I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
          \n
          *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
          \n
          edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
          """
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
        ]
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770668"
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          date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112348
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
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        +body: """
          You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
          \n
          Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
          """
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 112408
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
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        +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
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          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
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        -id: 112413
        -bodyTs: "'argument':5 'declar':9"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770963"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727603 {#1708
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112413
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 5
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
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        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1385 …}
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        -id: 112447
        -bodyTs: "'actual':16 'alway':28 'ask':14 'especi':22 'expect':8 'hot':23 'idea':21 'like':25 'm':2 'petrol':26 'reason':17 'superior':30 'support':19 'sure':4 'take':24 'unreason':12"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4771134"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699728041 {#1384
          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112447
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026}
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
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          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@floofloof@lemmy.ca"
        ]
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        -id: 113349
        -bodyTs: "'bigger':34 'car':16 'consum':25 'effici':28 'engin':32 'europ':6 'extra':27 'increas':19 'keep':18 'might':2 'optimist':11 'power':31 'rang':35 'seem':21 'size':17 'us':14 'want':23"
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          date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113349
      }
    ]
    -id: 11788
    -titleTs: "'also':2 'tesla':3 'yes':1"
    -bodyTs: null
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    +upVotes: 0
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    +ranking: 1699719409
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699633009 {#1696
      date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
  +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
  +lang: "en"
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    date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
  }
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    "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
    "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
    "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
    "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
    "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2022 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2025 …}
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  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2013 …}
  -id: 113000
  -bodyTs: "'300':39 'absurd':25 'also':42 'batteri':27 'benefit':55 'big':10 'car':13 'case':31 'commut':36 'consum':41 'daili':35 'demand':23 'didn':21 'effici':50 'even':32 'explod':17 'heavier':3 'high':26 'instead':48 'mile':40 'much':2 'negat':51 'peopl':20 'power':47 'problem':11 'rang':28 'seem':43 'size':14 'though':33 'transit':58 'unnecessari':46 'want':45 'weren':15 'wouldn':5 'yes':1"
  +ranking: 0
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    date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 113000
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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50 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
  +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#3020 …}
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    +slug: "Yes-also-Teslas"
    +title: "Yes, also Teslas"
    +url: "https://media.mastodon.scot/mastodon-scot-public/media_attachments/files/111/386/122/832/701/352/original/adf530561fcd6b97.jpg"
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    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@HonoraryMancunian@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@fiah@discuss.tchncs.de"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1671 …}
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        -id: 109758
        -bodyTs: "'car':14 'chang':17 'dead':19 'doesn':15 'go':3 'hit':24 'mind':11 'say':5 'without':4"
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          date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 109758
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1550 …}
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        +body: """
          But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
          \n
          If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
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          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@thantik@lemmy.world"
          "@cestvrai@lemm.ee"
          "@Buffaloaf@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1525 …}
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        -id: 109960
        -bodyTs: "'also':9 'amount':31 'anyth':23 'bring':38 'bunch':12 'car':14 'cargo':3,36,40 'caus':34 'defens':47 'drive':10 'ev':27,49 'exist':5 'heavi':26 'increas':29 'make':42 'orthogon':21 'pollut':33 're':8 'sens':44 'ship':4,37,41 'switch':24 'total':20 'whether':6"
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          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 109960
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
          \n
          **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
          \n
          [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
          \n
          [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
          \n
          > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
          \n
          According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 20
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699718733 {#1620
          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1692 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1705 …}
        -id: 111756
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':47 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':121 '/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':64 '20':144 '50':152 'accord':114,134,145 'adopt':109 'air':13 'alreadi':124 'also':156,182 'america':106 'articl':26,41,61,118 'atlant':60 'away':190 'begin':107 'better':170 'bigger':10 'brake':18 'car':111,133,175,192 'clear':167 'danger':86 'deepen':84 'depend':193 'discuss':65 'dozen':24 'dust':5,19 'edit':20,164 'electr':110,132 'en':112 'ev':29,70,72,90,168,179,181 'everi':174 'exhaust':58 'forb':117 'generat':80 'get':103 'goodyear':147 'guardian':44 'heavier':77 'ice':37,172 'increas':3,68,138 'liter':23 'mass':113 'massiv':2 'michelin':136 'model':73 'much':9,50 'need':187 'new':71 'one':98 'particul':34,53,67,82 'pois':101 'pollut':16,35,54,95 'problem':96,126 'produc':31 'quicker':79 'research':159 'seen':163 'sourc':11 'still':186 'suck':183 'switch':130 'tailpip':57 'tend':74 'tire':4,33,66,94,122,139 'tire-pollut':93 'transit':189 'tyre':52 'valid':155 've':162 'water':15 'wear':140 'word':89 'wors':51,104 'www.forbes.com':120 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':119 'www.theatlantic.com':63 'www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':62 'www.theguardian.com':46 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':45"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767533"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699923103 {#1613
          date: 2023-11-14 01:51:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699718733 {#1604
          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111756
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1629 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
          \n
          > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
          \n
          **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 11
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1628 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1599 …}
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        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1725 …}
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        -id: 111797
        -bodyTs: "'/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':20 '1':35 '850':36 'agre':87 'bad':99 'batteri':52 'better':91 'brake':8 'carbuzz.com':19 'carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':18 'chang':94 'climat':93 'comprehens':22 'drive':29 'dust':9 'edit':71 'effect':84 'electr':56 'emiss':17,31,43 'environ':102 'equival':41 'ev':89,96 'everyday':28 'exhaust':42 'expert':85 'fit':54 'found':25 'greater':38 'greenhous':83 'heavier':51 'increas':59 'made':47 'mass':61 'might':12 'much':5 'overwhelm':86 'pack':53 'particul':30,79 'place':65 'pollut':11 'say':76 'still':98 'strain':67 'studi':23 'tailpip':16 'time':37 'tire':10,33,70,78 'turn':64 'vehicl':57,60 'wors':6,14,48"
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          date: 2023-11-14 10:08:01.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719173 {#1598
          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 111797
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
          \n
          [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
          """
        +lang: "en"
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
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        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1737 …}
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        -id: 111836
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':18 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':25 '20':48 '50':56 'accord':38,49 'alreadi':28 'also':60 'anoth':19 'anyth':72 'articl':20,87 'bad':90 'big':80 'biggest':103 'brake':75 'car':37 'dozen':85 'dust':76 'electr':36 'even':3,11,97 'forb':22 'goodyear':51 'increas':42 'liter':84 'm':69,95 'mention':98 'michelin':40 'microplast':99 'near':78 'pollut':9,15,92 'problem':30,83 'research':63 'said':7 'see':71 'seen':67 'sourc':104 'switch':34 'tailpip':14 'tire':8,26,43,91,100 'valid':59 've':66 'wear':44 'wors':4,12 'www.forbes.com':24 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':23 'www.theguardian.com':17 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':16"
        +ranking: 0
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719642 {#1728
          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111836
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1741 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@corey389@lemmy.world"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770565"
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          date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726562 {#1717
          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112328
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2457 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
          \n
          *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
          \n
          edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
          """
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
        ]
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        -id: 112348
        -bodyTs: "'air':95 'also':87 'aren':23 'argu':20 'argument':84 'away':72 'bad':46 'better':25,112 'brake':10 'car':39,74 'chang':59 'climat':28,36,58 'contribut':100 'contributor':56 'could':117 'doubt':108 'dust':6,11 'edit':85 'effect':104 'emiss':44 'encourag':77 'ev':22 'greenhous':103 'harm':37 'haven':88 'ice':30,78,114 'idea':65 'inan':83 'land':47 'liter':16 'lot':33,51 'major':55 'matter':97 'move':71 'much':94 'one':18 'park':50 'particul':96 'pavement':49 'push':69 'seen':90 'signific':120 'sprawl':53 'still':111,118 'studi':91 'tailpip':43 'talk':3 'tire':5,99 'typo':15 'understand':63 'urban':52 'use':48,79 'wors':8"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726842 {#2453
          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112348
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2364 …}
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        +body: """
          You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
          \n
          Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 112408
        -bodyTs: "'actual':70 'air':21,30 'also':27,86 'away':91 'bad':67 'car':81,93 'care':54 'confus':7 'consequ':32 'drink':40 'effect':68 'environ':43,57 'etc':46 'ev':62,73,83 'everi':79 'everyon':52 'favor':60 'food':38 'ice':64 'increas':71 'leak':35 'link':16 'matter':51 'mean':9 'microplast':34 'need':76,87 'non':29 'non-air':28 'ocean':45 'pollut':22,31 're':2 'remain':80 'research':14 'right':3 'say':11 'small':50 'societi':90 'suppli':39 'tire':24 'transit':78,89 'use':74 'water':41 'wrote':5"
        +ranking: 0
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770950"
        +editedAt: null
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112408
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        -id: 112413
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770963"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727603 {#1708
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112413
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
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          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4771134"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699728041 {#1384
          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112447
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 113000
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        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4774086"
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        +"title": 113000
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036}
    ]
    -id: 11788
    -titleTs: "'also':2 'tesla':3 'yes':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
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      date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
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  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
  +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
  +lang: "en"
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    "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
    "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
    "@floofloof@lemmy.ca"
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
51 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
  +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1979 …}
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    +slug: "Yes-also-Teslas"
    +title: "Yes, also Teslas"
    +url: "https://media.mastodon.scot/mastodon-scot-public/media_attachments/files/111/386/122/832/701/352/original/adf530561fcd6b97.jpg"
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      date: 2023-11-15 19:58:09.0 +01:00
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#3047 …}
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    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
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        +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
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          "@HonoraryMancunian@lemmy.world"
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          "@fiah@discuss.tchncs.de"
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        -id: 109758
        -bodyTs: "'car':14 'chang':17 'dead':19 'doesn':15 'go':3 'hit':24 'mind':11 'say':5 'without':4"
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          date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 109758
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +body: """
          But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
          \n
          If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
          """
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@thantik@lemmy.world"
          "@cestvrai@lemm.ee"
          "@Buffaloaf@lemmy.world"
        ]
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          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 109960
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596
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        +body: """
          But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
          \n
          **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
          \n
          [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
          \n
          [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
          \n
          > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
          \n
          According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
          """
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 111756
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          date: 2023-11-14 01:51:43.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111756
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
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        +body: """
          Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
          \n
          > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
          \n
          **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 111797
        -bodyTs: "'/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':20 '1':35 '850':36 'agre':87 'bad':99 'batteri':52 'better':91 'brake':8 'carbuzz.com':19 'carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':18 'chang':94 'climat':93 'comprehens':22 'drive':29 'dust':9 'edit':71 'effect':84 'electr':56 'emiss':17,31,43 'environ':102 'equival':41 'ev':89,96 'everyday':28 'exhaust':42 'expert':85 'fit':54 'found':25 'greater':38 'greenhous':83 'heavier':51 'increas':59 'made':47 'mass':61 'might':12 'much':5 'overwhelm':86 'pack':53 'particul':30,79 'place':65 'pollut':11 'say':76 'still':98 'strain':67 'studi':23 'tailpip':16 'time':37 'tire':10,33,70,78 'turn':64 'vehicl':57,60 'wors':6,14,48"
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          date: 2023-11-14 10:08:01.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
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      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736
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        +body: """
          It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
          \n
          [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
          """
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 111836
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':18 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':25 '20':48 '50':56 'accord':38,49 'alreadi':28 'also':60 'anoth':19 'anyth':72 'articl':20,87 'bad':90 'big':80 'biggest':103 'brake':75 'car':37 'dozen':85 'dust':76 'electr':36 'even':3,11,97 'forb':22 'goodyear':51 'increas':42 'liter':84 'm':69,95 'mention':98 'michelin':40 'microplast':99 'near':78 'pollut':9,15,92 'problem':30,83 'research':63 'said':7 'see':71 'seen':67 'sourc':104 'switch':34 'tailpip':14 'tire':8,26,43,91,100 'valid':59 've':66 'wear':44 'wors':4,12 'www.forbes.com':24 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':23 'www.theguardian.com':17 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':16"
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 111836
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
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        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
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          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@corey389@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770565"
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          date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
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      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
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        +body: """
          I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
          \n
          *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
          \n
          edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
          """
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
        ]
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770668"
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          date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112348
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
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        +body: """
          You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
          \n
          Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
          """
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
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        -id: 112408
        -bodyTs: "'actual':70 'air':21,30 'also':27,86 'away':91 'bad':67 'car':81,93 'care':54 'confus':7 'consequ':32 'drink':40 'effect':68 'environ':43,57 'etc':46 'ev':62,73,83 'everi':79 'everyon':52 'favor':60 'food':38 'ice':64 'increas':71 'leak':35 'link':16 'matter':51 'mean':9 'microplast':34 'need':76,87 'non':29 'non-air':28 'ocean':45 'pollut':22,31 're':2 'remain':80 'research':14 'right':3 'say':11 'small':50 'societi':90 'suppli':39 'tire':24 'transit':78,89 'use':74 'water':41 'wrote':5"
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          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 112408
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      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
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        +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
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        -id: 112413
        -bodyTs: "'argument':5 'declar':9"
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        +visibility: "visible             "
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727603 {#1708
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112413
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 5
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699728041 {#2393
          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
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        -id: 112447
        -bodyTs: "'actual':16 'alway':28 'ask':14 'especi':22 'expect':8 'hot':23 'idea':21 'like':25 'm':2 'petrol':26 'reason':17 'superior':30 'support':19 'sure':4 'take':24 'unreason':12"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4771134"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699728041 {#1384
          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112447
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2022 …}
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        -id: 113000
        -bodyTs: "'300':39 'absurd':25 'also':42 'batteri':27 'benefit':55 'big':10 'car':13 'case':31 'commut':36 'consum':41 'daili':35 'demand':23 'didn':21 'effici':50 'even':32 'explod':17 'heavier':3 'high':26 'instead':48 'mile':40 'much':2 'negat':51 'peopl':20 'power':47 'problem':11 'rang':28 'seem':43 'size':14 'though':33 'transit':58 'unnecessari':46 'want':45 'weren':15 'wouldn':5 'yes':1"
        +ranking: 0
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          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113000
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036}
    ]
    -id: 11788
    -titleTs: "'also':2 'tesla':3 'yes':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699633009 {#1696
      date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
  +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 2
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    date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
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    "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
    "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
    "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
    "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
    "@floofloof@lemmy.ca"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2144 …}
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  -id: 113349
  -bodyTs: "'bigger':34 'car':16 'consum':25 'effici':28 'engin':32 'europ':6 'extra':27 'increas':19 'keep':18 'might':2 'optimist':11 'power':31 'rang':35 'seem':21 'size':17 'us':14 'want':23"
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    date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
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  +"title": 113349
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
52 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036
  +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1979 …}
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    +slug: "Yes-also-Teslas"
    +title: "Yes, also Teslas"
    +url: "https://media.mastodon.scot/mastodon-scot-public/media_attachments/files/111/386/122/832/701/352/original/adf530561fcd6b97.jpg"
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      date: 2023-11-15 19:58:09.0 +01:00
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    +children: [
      11 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1709
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
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        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1654 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1650 …}
        +body: "This should go without saying but what’s on your mind about a car doesn’t change how deadly it is when it hits you."
        +lang: "en"
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@HonoraryMancunian@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@fiah@discuss.tchncs.de"
        ]
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        -id: 109758
        -bodyTs: "'car':14 'chang':17 'dead':19 'doesn':15 'go':3 'hit':24 'mind':11 'say':5 'without':4"
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          date: 2023-11-11 02:52:32.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 109758
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      10 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1548
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
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        +body: """
          But those cargo ships exist whether we’re **also** driving a bunch of cars or not. It’s just totally orthogonal.\n
          \n
          If anything, switching to heavy EVs will increase the amount of pollution caused by cargo ships. Bringing up cargo ships makes no sense as a defense of EVs
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 2
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          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
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          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@thantik@lemmy.world"
          "@cestvrai@lemm.ee"
          "@Buffaloaf@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1525 …}
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        -id: 109960
        -bodyTs: "'also':9 'amount':31 'anyth':23 'bring':38 'bunch':12 'car':14 'cargo':3,36,40 'caus':34 'defens':47 'drive':10 'ev':27,49 'exist':5 'heavi':26 'increas':29 'make':42 'orthogon':21 'pollut':33 're':8 'sens':44 'ship':4,37,41 'switch':24 'total':20 'whether':6"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4756392"
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          date: 2023-11-11 04:34:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 109960
      }
      9 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1596
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
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        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          But massively increase tire dust, which is a much bigger source of air and water pollution than brake dust.\n
          \n
          **edit:** There are literally dozens of articles about how EVs will produce more tire particulate pollution than ICEs.\n
          \n
          [Here is an article in the Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show) about how much worse tyre particulate pollution is than tailpipe exhaust.\n
          \n
          [This Atlantic article](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/) discusses tire particulate increase from EVs:\n
          \n
          > New EV models tend to be heavier and quicker—generating more particulates and deepening the danger. In other words, EVs have a tire-pollution problem, and one that is poised to get worse as America begins to adopt electric cars en masse.\n
          \n
          According to [this Forbes article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          **edit:** To be clear, EVs are better than ICEs and every car should be an EV. But EVs also suck and we still need to transition away from car dependence.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
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        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1702 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1683 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1680 …}
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        -id: 111756
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':47 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':121 '/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':64 '20':144 '50':152 'accord':114,134,145 'adopt':109 'air':13 'alreadi':124 'also':156,182 'america':106 'articl':26,41,61,118 'atlant':60 'away':190 'begin':107 'better':170 'bigger':10 'brake':18 'car':111,133,175,192 'clear':167 'danger':86 'deepen':84 'depend':193 'discuss':65 'dozen':24 'dust':5,19 'edit':20,164 'electr':110,132 'en':112 'ev':29,70,72,90,168,179,181 'everi':174 'exhaust':58 'forb':117 'generat':80 'get':103 'goodyear':147 'guardian':44 'heavier':77 'ice':37,172 'increas':3,68,138 'liter':23 'mass':113 'massiv':2 'michelin':136 'model':73 'much':9,50 'need':187 'new':71 'one':98 'particul':34,53,67,82 'pois':101 'pollut':16,35,54,95 'problem':96,126 'produc':31 'quicker':79 'research':159 'seen':163 'sourc':11 'still':186 'suck':183 'switch':130 'tailpip':57 'tend':74 'tire':4,33,66,94,122,139 'tire-pollut':93 'transit':189 'tyre':52 'valid':155 've':162 'water':15 'wear':140 'word':89 'wors':51,104 'www.forbes.com':120 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':119 'www.theatlantic.com':63 'www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/)':62 'www.theguardian.com':46 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':45"
        +ranking: 0
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767533"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699923103 {#1613
          date: 2023-11-14 01:51:43.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699718733 {#1604
          date: 2023-11-11 17:05:33.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111756
      }
      8 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1629 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          Not only are they MUCH worse than brake dust, [tire pollution might be worse than tailpipe emissions.](https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)\n
          \n
          > The comprehensive study has found that in everyday driving, particulate emissions from tires are 1,850 times greater than the equivalent exhaust emissions. This is only made worse by the heavier battery packs fitted to electric vehicles, which increase vehicle mass and, in turn, place further strain on the tires.\n
          \n
          **edit:** this is not to say the tire particulate has the same greenhouse effect. Experts overwhelmingly agree that EVs are better for climate change. But EVs are still bad for the environment.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
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        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1628 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1599 …}
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        -id: 111797
        -bodyTs: "'/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':20 '1':35 '850':36 'agre':87 'bad':99 'batteri':52 'better':91 'brake':8 'carbuzz.com':19 'carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-worse-for-the-environment-than-tailpipe-emissions)':18 'chang':94 'climat':93 'comprehens':22 'drive':29 'dust':9 'edit':71 'effect':84 'electr':56 'emiss':17,31,43 'environ':102 'equival':41 'ev':89,96 'everyday':28 'exhaust':42 'expert':85 'fit':54 'found':25 'greater':38 'greenhous':83 'heavier':51 'increas':59 'made':47 'mass':61 'might':12 'much':5 'overwhelm':86 'pack':53 'particul':30,79 'place':65 'pollut':11 'say':76 'still':98 'strain':67 'studi':23 'tailpip':16 'time':37 'tire':10,33,70,78 'turn':64 'vehicl':57,60 'wors':6,14,48"
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        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767705"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699952881 {#1611
          date: 2023-11-14 10:08:01.0 +01:00
        }
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          date: 2023-11-11 17:12:53.0 +01:00
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        +"title": 111797
      }
      7 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1736
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1730 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          It’s even worse than I said. [Tire pollution is even worse than tailpipe pollution.](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)\n
          \n
          [Another article from Forbes](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):\n
          \n
          > Tires were already a problem, but when we switch to electric cars, according to Michelin, we increase tire wear by up to 20%. According to Goodyear, it’s up to 50%. This is validated also in other research that we’ve seen.\n
          \n
          I’m not seeing anything about how brake dust is nearly as big of a problem. Literally dozens of articles about how bad tire pollution is. I’m not even mentioning microplastics! Tires are the biggest source.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 16
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699719642 {#1726
          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1737 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1732 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1735 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1729 …}
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        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1714 …}
        -id: 111836
        -bodyTs: "'/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':18 '/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':25 '20':48 '50':56 'accord':38,49 'alreadi':28 'also':60 'anoth':19 'anyth':72 'articl':20,87 'bad':90 'big':80 'biggest':103 'brake':75 'car':37 'dozen':85 'dust':76 'electr':36 'even':3,11,97 'forb':22 'goodyear':51 'increas':42 'liter':84 'm':69,95 'mention':98 'michelin':40 'microplast':99 'near':78 'pollut':9,15,92 'problem':30,83 'research':63 'said':7 'see':71 'seen':67 'sourc':104 'switch':34 'tailpip':14 'tire':8,26,43,91,100 'valid':59 've':66 'wear':44 'wors':4,12 'www.forbes.com':24 'www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2023/06/24/more-efficient-less-polluting-tires-are-essential-for-electric-vehicles-says-enso/?sh=3cbca382ee2f):':23 'www.theguardian.com':17 'www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show)':16"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4767893"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699719642 {#1728
          date: 2023-11-11 17:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 111836
      }
      6 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1739
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1741 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Your EV is worse, per distance and per capita, than any non-car mode of transportation. Compared to ICEs, it’s better in one particular way, worse in others, but still causes major environmental damage through bad land use. Cars are one of the biggest killers worldwide, and EVs may make that problem worse."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 11
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699726562 {#1720
          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@corey389@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1740 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2465 …}
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        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2411 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2422 …}
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        -id: 112328
        -bodyTs: "'bad':38 'better':23 'biggest':46 'capita':9 'car':14,41 'caus':33 'compar':18 'damag':36 'distanc':6 'environment':35 'ev':2,50 'ice':20 'killer':47 'land':39 'major':34 'make':52 'may':51 'mode':15 'non':13 'non-car':12 'one':25,43 'other':30 'particular':26 'per':5,8 'problem':54 'still':32 'transport':17 'use':40 'way':27 'worldwid':48 'wors':4,28,55"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770565"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699850987 {#1716
          date: 2023-11-13 05:49:47.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726562 {#1717
          date: 2023-11-11 19:16:02.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112328
      }
      5 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2452
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2457 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          I was talking about tire dust being **worse** than brake dust. Was that a typo?\n
          \n
          *Literally no one* is arguing that EVs aren’t better for the climate than ICEs. But a lot of the climate harm of cars is not just tailpipe emissions, but bad land use. Pavement, parking lots, urban sprawl, are major contributors to climate change. I don’t understand this idea that if we push to move away from cars, it will encourage ICE use. It’s an inane argument.\n
          \n
          edit: I also haven’t seen studies of how much air particulate matter from tires contributes to the greenhouse effect. I don’t doubt it’s still better than ICEs, but it could still be significant.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699726842 {#2456
          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2454 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2459 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2470 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2467 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2371 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2370 …}
        -id: 112348
        -bodyTs: "'air':95 'also':87 'aren':23 'argu':20 'argument':84 'away':72 'bad':46 'better':25,112 'brake':10 'car':39,74 'chang':59 'climat':28,36,58 'contribut':100 'contributor':56 'could':117 'doubt':108 'dust':6,11 'edit':85 'effect':104 'emiss':44 'encourag':77 'ev':22 'greenhous':103 'harm':37 'haven':88 'ice':30,78,114 'idea':65 'inan':83 'land':47 'liter':16 'lot':33,51 'major':55 'matter':97 'move':71 'much':94 'one':18 'park':50 'particul':96 'pavement':49 'push':69 'seen':90 'signific':120 'sprawl':53 'still':111,118 'studi':91 'tailpip':43 'talk':3 'tire':5,99 'typo':15 'understand':63 'urban':52 'use':48,79 'wors':8"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770668"
        +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699851345 {#2460
          date: 2023-11-13 05:55:45.0 +01:00
        }
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699726842 {#2453
          date: 2023-11-11 19:20:42.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112348
      }
      4 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2361
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2364 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: """
          You’re right, I wrote that confusingly. I mean to say that the research I linked to is just about *air pollution* from tires. There are also *non-air pollution* consequences, as microplastics leak into our food supply, drinking water, our environments, our oceans, etc. This is no small matter.\n
          \n
          Everyone who cares about the environment is in favor of EVs over ICEs, but some bad effects will actually increase with EV use. We need to transition every remaining car to EV, but we **also** need to transition society away from cars.
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727556 {#2360
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2372 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2386 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2385 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2378 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2381 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1910 …}
        -id: 112408
        -bodyTs: "'actual':70 'air':21,30 'also':27,86 'away':91 'bad':67 'car':81,93 'care':54 'confus':7 'consequ':32 'drink':40 'effect':68 'environ':43,57 'etc':46 'ev':62,73,83 'everi':79 'everyon':52 'favor':60 'food':38 'ice':64 'increas':71 'leak':35 'link':16 'matter':51 'mean':9 'microplast':34 'need':76,87 'non':29 'non-air':28 'ocean':45 'pollut':22,31 're':2 'remain':80 'research':14 'right':3 'say':11 'small':50 'societi':90 'suppli':39 'tire':24 'transit':78,89 'use':74 'water':41 'wrote':5"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770950"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727556 {#2359
          date: 2023-11-11 19:32:36.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112408
      }
      3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1926
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1410 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "That’s not an argument, that’s a declaration."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 6
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699727603 {#1909
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1874 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1908 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1883 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2389 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2387 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2394 …}
        -id: 112413
        -bodyTs: "'argument':5 'declar':9"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4770963"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699727603 {#1708
          date: 2023-11-11 19:33:23.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112413
      }
      2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1381
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1383 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "I’m not sure what you were expecting. It is not unreasonable to ask for actual reasons to support your ideas, especially hot takes like “petrol will always be superior”."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 5
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699728041 {#2393
          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@jose1324@lemmy.world"
          "@m0darn@lemmy.ca"
          "@mayoi@sh.itjust.works"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1402 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1385 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1401 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1363 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1362 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2019 …}
        -id: 112447
        -bodyTs: "'actual':16 'alway':28 'ask':14 'especi':22 'expect':8 'hot':23 'idea':21 'like':25 'm':2 'petrol':26 'reason':17 'superior':30 'support':19 'sure':4 'take':24 'unreason':12"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4771134"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699728041 {#1384
          date: 2023-11-11 19:40:41.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 112447
      }
      1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2026
        +user: App\Entity\User {#264 …}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1582 …2}
        +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
        +image: null
        +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2024 …}
        +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
        +body: "Yes, much heavier. It wouldn’t be such a big problem if car sizes weren’t exploding, and if people didn’t demand such absurdly high battery ranges “just in case”, even though their daily commute is not 300 miles. Consumers also seem to want unnecessary power instead of efficiency, negating some of the benefits of the transition."
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 8
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1699736149 {#2030
          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
          "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
          "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
          "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
          "@SendMePhotos@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2022 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2025 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2033 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2028 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2012 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2013 …}
        -id: 113000
        -bodyTs: "'300':39 'absurd':25 'also':42 'batteri':27 'benefit':55 'big':10 'car':13 'case':31 'commut':36 'consum':41 'daili':35 'demand':23 'didn':21 'effici':50 'even':32 'explod':17 'heavier':3 'high':26 'instead':48 'mile':40 'much':2 'negat':51 'peopl':20 'power':47 'problem':11 'rang':28 'seem':43 'size':14 'though':33 'transit':58 'unnecessari':46 'want':45 'weren':15 'wouldn':5 'yes':1"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4774086"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699736149 {#2032
          date: 2023-11-11 21:55:49.0 +01:00
        }
        +"title": 113000
      }
      0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2036}
    ]
    -id: 11788
    -titleTs: "'also':2 'tesla':3 'yes':1"
    -bodyTs: null
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1699719409
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://mander.xyz/post/6008655"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699633009 {#1696
      date: 2023-11-10 17:16:49.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1574 …}
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2037 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1619 …}
  +body: "That might be so in Europe. I am not so optimistic about the US, where car sizes keep increasing. We seem to want to “consume” the extra efficiencies with more powerful engines and bigger range."
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 2
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1699743269 {#2035
    date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@Masimatutu@mander.xyz"
    "@kaotic@lemmy.world"
    "@SkepticalButOpenMinded@lemmy.ca"
    "@hedgehogging_the_bed@lemmy.world"
    "@floofloof@lemmy.ca"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2144 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2061 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2084 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2076 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2083 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2085 …}
  -id: 113349
  -bodyTs: "'bigger':34 'car':16 'consum':25 'effici':28 'engin':32 'europ':6 'extra':27 'increas':19 'keep':18 'might':2 'optimist':11 'power':31 'rang':35 'seem':21 'size':17 'us':14 'want':23"
  +ranking: 0
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  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.ca/comment/4776307"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699743269 {#2031
    date: 2023-11-11 23:54:29.0 +01:00
  }
  +"title": 113349
}
 
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