GET https://kbin.spritesserver.nl/index.php/m/memes@lemmy.world/t/11047/Two-Party-System-Why/newest

Response
200 OK
IP
216.73.216.57
Profiled on
Token
a897ee

Security

Token

There is no security token.

Firewall

main Name
Security enabled
Stateless

Configuration

Key Value
provider security.user.provider.concrete.app_user_provider
context main
entry_point App\Security\KbinAuthenticator
user_checker App\Security\UserChecker
access_denied_handler (none)
access_denied_url (none)
authenticators 
[
  "two_factor"
  "remember_me"
  "App\Security\KbinAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\FacebookAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\GoogleAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\GithubAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\KeycloakAuthenticator"
]

Listeners

Listener Duration Response 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ChannelListener {#723
  -map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …}
  -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …}
  -httpPort: 80
  -httpsPort: 443
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ContextListener {#706
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\TokenStorage {#1017 …}
  -sessionKey: "_security_main"
  -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …}
  -userProviders: Symfony\Component\DependencyInjection\Argument\RewindableGenerator {#705 …}
  -dispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …}
  -registered: false
  -trustResolver: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authentication\AuthenticationTrustResolver {#780 …}
  -sessionTrackerEnabler: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage::enableUsageTracking(): void {#703 …}
}
 54.20 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AuthenticatorManagerListener {#584
  -authenticatorManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Authentication\AuthenticatorManager {#595 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Http\Firewall\TwoFactorAccessListener {#582
  -twoFactorFirewallConfig: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\TwoFactor\TwoFactorFirewallConfig {#842 …}
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -twoFactorAccessDecider: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\TwoFactorAccessDecider {#581 …}
}
 0.06 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AccessListener {#579
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -accessDecisionManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\TraceableAccessDecisionManager {#937 …}
  -map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\LogoutListener {#786
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -options: [
    "csrf_parameter" => "_csrf_token"
    "csrf_token_id" => "logout"
    "logout_path" => "app_logout"
  ]
  -httpUtils: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\HttpUtils {#841 …}
  -csrfTokenManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Csrf\CsrfTokenManager {#1015 …}
  -eventDispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none)

Authenticators

No authenticators have been recorded. Check previous profiles on your authentication endpoint.

Access Decision

affirmative Strategy
# Voter class
1 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\AuthenticatedVoter"
2 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
3 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
4 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\ExpressionVoter"
5 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
6 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
7 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
8 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
9 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
10 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
11 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
12 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
13 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
14 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"

Access decision log

# Result Attributes Object
1 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
2 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\Entry {#2400
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
    +name: "memes@lemmy.world"
    +title: "memes"
    +description: """
      Community rules\n
      ---------------\n
      \n
      1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
      \n
      2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
      \n
      3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
      \n
      4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
      \n
      5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
      \n
      \n
      \n
      Sister communities\n
      ------------------\n
      \n
      - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
      - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
      - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
      - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 1
    +entryCount: 1112
    +entryCommentCount: 22597
    +postCount: 0
    +postCommentCount: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729581796 {#275
      date: 2024-10-22 09:23:16.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#237 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#222 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#180 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#138 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#200 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#117 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#103 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#81 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#71 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1346 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1823 …}
    -id: 78
    +apId: "memes@lemmy.world"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
    +apPreferredUsername: "memes"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728743545 {#269
      date: 2024-10-12 16:32:25.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699084255 {#271
      date: 2023-11-04 08:50:55.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#1970 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1915 …}
  +slug: "Two-Party-System-Why"
  +title: "Two Party System. Why."
  +url: "https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/4c96ba32-e740-4fe9-9bd4-f03c00518d72.webp"
  +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
  +type: "link"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: true
  +commentCount: 92
  +favouriteCount: 434
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1699753297 {#2414
    date: 2023-11-12 02:41:37.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1884 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1961 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1959 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1399 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2440 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2436 …}
  +children: []
  -id: 11047
  -titleTs: "'parti':2 'system':3 'two':1"
  -bodyTs: "'democrat':9 'downvot':5 'edit':1 'miss':13 'peopl':4 'point':15 'post':7 're':12 'republican':10"
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1699490603
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.zip/post/5247744"
  +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699451946 {#1793
    date: 2023-11-08 14:59:06.0 +01:00
  }
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699404203 {#2402
    date: 2023-11-08 01:43:23.0 +01:00
  }
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
3 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\Entry {#2400
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
    +name: "memes@lemmy.world"
    +title: "memes"
    +description: """
      Community rules\n
      ---------------\n
      \n
      1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
      \n
      2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
      \n
      3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
      \n
      4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
      \n
      5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
      \n
      \n
      \n
      Sister communities\n
      ------------------\n
      \n
      - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
      - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
      - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
      - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 1
    +entryCount: 1112
    +entryCommentCount: 22597
    +postCount: 0
    +postCommentCount: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729581796 {#275
      date: 2024-10-22 09:23:16.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#237 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#222 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#180 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#138 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#200 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#117 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#103 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#81 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#71 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1346 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1823 …}
    -id: 78
    +apId: "memes@lemmy.world"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
    +apPreferredUsername: "memes"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728743545 {#269
      date: 2024-10-12 16:32:25.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699084255 {#271
      date: 2023-11-04 08:50:55.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#1970 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1915 …}
  +slug: "Two-Party-System-Why"
  +title: "Two Party System. Why."
  +url: "https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/4c96ba32-e740-4fe9-9bd4-f03c00518d72.webp"
  +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
  +type: "link"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: true
  +commentCount: 92
  +favouriteCount: 434
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1699753297 {#2414
    date: 2023-11-12 02:41:37.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1884 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1961 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1959 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1399 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2440 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2436 …}
  +children: []
  -id: 11047
  -titleTs: "'parti':2 'system':3 'two':1"
  -bodyTs: "'democrat':9 'downvot':5 'edit':1 'miss':13 'peopl':4 'point':15 'post':7 're':12 'republican':10"
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1699490603
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.zip/post/5247744"
  +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699451946 {#1793
    date: 2023-11-08 14:59:06.0 +01:00
  }
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699404203 {#2402
    date: 2023-11-08 01:43:23.0 +01:00
  }
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
4 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\Entry {#2400
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
    +name: "memes@lemmy.world"
    +title: "memes"
    +description: """
      Community rules\n
      ---------------\n
      \n
      1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
      \n
      2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
      \n
      3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
      \n
      4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
      \n
      5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
      \n
      \n
      \n
      Sister communities\n
      ------------------\n
      \n
      - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
      - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
      - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
      - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 1
    +entryCount: 1112
    +entryCommentCount: 22597
    +postCount: 0
    +postCommentCount: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729581796 {#275
      date: 2024-10-22 09:23:16.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#237 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#222 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#180 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#138 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#200 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#117 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#103 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#81 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#71 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1346 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1823 …}
    -id: 78
    +apId: "memes@lemmy.world"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
    +apPreferredUsername: "memes"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728743545 {#269
      date: 2024-10-12 16:32:25.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699084255 {#271
      date: 2023-11-04 08:50:55.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#1970 …}
  +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1915 …}
  +slug: "Two-Party-System-Why"
  +title: "Two Party System. Why."
  +url: "https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/4c96ba32-e740-4fe9-9bd4-f03c00518d72.webp"
  +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
  +type: "link"
  +lang: "en"
  +isOc: false
  +hasEmbed: true
  +commentCount: 92
  +favouriteCount: 434
  +score: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +sticky: false
  +lastActive: DateTime @1699753297 {#2414
    date: 2023-11-12 02:41:37.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +adaAmount: 0
  +tags: null
  +mentions: null
  +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1884 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1961 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1959 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1399 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2440 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2436 …}
  +children: []
  -id: 11047
  -titleTs: "'parti':2 'system':3 'two':1"
  -bodyTs: "'democrat':9 'downvot':5 'edit':1 'miss':13 'peopl':4 'point':15 'post':7 're':12 'republican':10"
  +cross: false
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +ranking: 1699490603
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://lemmy.zip/post/5247744"
  +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699451946 {#1793
    date: 2023-11-08 14:59:06.0 +01:00
  }
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699404203 {#2402
    date: 2023-11-08 01:43:23.0 +01:00
  }
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
5 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
6 DENIED moderate 
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        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
7 DENIED edit 
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        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
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        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
8 DENIED moderate 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
9 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
10 DENIED moderate 
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        ---------------\n
        \n
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        \n
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        \n
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        \n
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        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
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    +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
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      "@balderdash9@lemmy.zip"
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  }
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4022}
  +body: """
    People: But they aren’t perfect!\n
    \n
    Me (trans): But…I want to live tho\n
    \n
    People: But gaza!!!\n
    \n
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    \n
    People: BoTh SiDeS!!!
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
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  +score: 0
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    date: 2023-11-10 12:43:40.0 +01:00
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    date: 2023-11-09 17:56:38.0 +01:00
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
11 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5270
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#5271 …}
  +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2400
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
      +name: "memes@lemmy.world"
      +title: "memes"
      +description: """
        Community rules\n
        ---------------\n
        \n
        1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
        \n
        3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
        \n
        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
        \n
        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
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    +url: "https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/4c96ba32-e740-4fe9-9bd4-f03c00518d72.webp"
    +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
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  }
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  +body: """
    People: But they aren’t perfect!\n
    \n
    Me (trans): But…I want to live tho\n
    \n
    People: But gaza!!!\n
    \n
    Me: It is literally illegal for trans minors to get any gender dysphoria treatment in my state and they’re drafting bills for adult bans, please help me (and also Republicans would’ve gone even harder supporting Israel)\n
    \n
    People: BoTh SiDeS!!!
    """
  +lang: "en"
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}
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
12 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5270
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#5271 …}
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        Community rules\n
        ---------------\n
        \n
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        \n
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        \n
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        \n
        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
        \n
        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
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    People: But they aren’t perfect!\n
    \n
    Me (trans): But…I want to live tho\n
    \n
    People: But gaza!!!\n
    \n
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Show voter details
17 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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Show voter details
18 DENIED moderate 
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Show voter details
19 DENIED edit 
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20 DENIED moderate 
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        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
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21 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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Show voter details
22 DENIED moderate 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
23 DENIED edit 
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    Only few dems actually support universal Healthcare, unfortunately, and the majority don’t care about anything but lining their pockets. It’s the same with the GOP, of course.\n
    \n
    That being said, of course vote for dems if your only other option is reps. What’s bad is better than what’s terrible. However, don’t simply vote and be done with it.\n
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    Educate yourself. Improve your life. Exercise, organize, teach. Grassroots praxis is where you can meaningfully improve the lives of your community, and carry that momentum elsewhere. The two party system isn’t going to be corrected purely via electoralism, it’s a stop-gap to prevent sliding into fascism.
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27 DENIED edit 
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        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
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    +body: "This is dumb as shit. Democrats aren’t perfect but they do care. That is why they actively took steps to stop people from dying during COVID unlike the GOP. That’s why they support universal healthcare, unlike the GOP. That’s why they support public education unlike the GOP. That is why they support free and fair elections unlike the GOP."
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    Only few dems actually support universal Healthcare, unfortunately, and the majority don’t care about anything but lining their pockets. It’s the same with the GOP, of course.\n
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    Only few dems actually support universal Healthcare, unfortunately, and the majority don’t care about anything but lining their pockets. It’s the same with the GOP, of course.\n
    \n
    That being said, of course vote for dems if your only other option is reps. What’s bad is better than what’s terrible. However, don’t simply vote and be done with it.\n
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Show voter details
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30 DENIED moderate 
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    Before I say anything else, if you’re voting, right now at a national level at least, Democrats are essentially the only option if you give a shit about democracy and aren’t an accelerationist.\n
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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Show voter details
31 DENIED edit 
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        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
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    Before I say anything else, if you’re voting, right now at a national level at least, Democrats are essentially the only option if you give a shit about democracy and aren’t an accelerationist.\n
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    \n
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    \n
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    \n
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32 DENIED moderate 
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    +body: "This is dumb as shit. Democrats aren’t perfect but they do care. That is why they actively took steps to stop people from dying during COVID unlike the GOP. That’s why they support universal healthcare, unlike the GOP. That’s why they support public education unlike the GOP. That is why they support free and fair elections unlike the GOP."
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  +body: """
    Before I say anything else, if you’re voting, right now at a national level at least, Democrats are essentially the only option if you give a shit about democracy and aren’t an accelerationist.\n
    \n
    That said: The GOP fucking up covid so hard is probably the only reason Trump didn’t get re-elected. Democrats as a collective **do not** support universal healthcare. They had the capability to pass *whatever they wanted* in Obama’s first term. They actively rejected even a public option. They fucked us (normal, non-rich people) hard, because, as a group, they ain’t us. They could have fixed a lot of the issues around public education that were introduced in the bush administration, but they didn’t. How’s that student loan debt forgiveness going? They, again as a group not individually, *hate* the idea of all those loans not getting paid. THINK OF THE BANKS! As far as free and fair elections go, they benefit from the FPTP system, they will never get rid of it unless they’re forced to.\n
    \n
    ALL OF THOSE THINGS SAID: **VOTING FOR DEMOCRATS AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL IS WHAT WE’RE STUCK WITH UNLESS WE WANT THINGS TO GET WAY, WAY WORSE.**\n
    \n
    The alternative to these fetid dickbags is fascists and yes, some literal Fucking Nazis.\n
    \n
    In a world where the Overton window isn’t totally fucked, Democrats are center-right. They, again as a group, give zero shits about regular people.
    """
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33 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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34 DENIED moderate 
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        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
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    +body: "This is dumb as shit. Democrats aren’t perfect but they do care. That is why they actively took steps to stop people from dying during COVID unlike the GOP. That’s why they support universal healthcare, unlike the GOP. That’s why they support public education unlike the GOP. That is why they support free and fair elections unlike the GOP."
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    Yep. You can vote for the bad party or you can vote for the party that wants you dead. At least if you keep voting for the bad party the other side will get less bad to get more votes. Then you vote for the less bad party and so on until they actually start being good.\n
    \n
    It’s so easy, but general population for some reason don’t think that way.
    """
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
35 DENIED edit 
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        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
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    +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
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    +body: "This is dumb as shit. Democrats aren’t perfect but they do care. That is why they actively took steps to stop people from dying during COVID unlike the GOP. That’s why they support universal healthcare, unlike the GOP. That’s why they support public education unlike the GOP. That is why they support free and fair elections unlike the GOP."
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    Yep. You can vote for the bad party or you can vote for the party that wants you dead. At least if you keep voting for the bad party the other side will get less bad to get more votes. Then you vote for the less bad party and so on until they actually start being good.\n
    \n
    It’s so easy, but general population for some reason don’t think that way.
    """
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}
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
36 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5253
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        \n
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        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
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    +body: "This is dumb as shit. Democrats aren’t perfect but they do care. That is why they actively took steps to stop people from dying during COVID unlike the GOP. That’s why they support universal healthcare, unlike the GOP. That’s why they support public education unlike the GOP. That is why they support free and fair elections unlike the GOP."
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    Yep. You can vote for the bad party or you can vote for the party that wants you dead. At least if you keep voting for the bad party the other side will get less bad to get more votes. Then you vote for the less bad party and so on until they actually start being good.\n
    \n
    It’s so easy, but general population for some reason don’t think that way.
    """
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
37 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
38 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5340
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        ---------------\n
        \n
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        \n
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        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
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    +slug: "Two-Party-System-Why"
    +title: "Two Party System. Why."
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    +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
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      +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2400}
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      +body: "This is dumb as shit. Democrats aren’t perfect but they do care. That is why they actively took steps to stop people from dying during COVID unlike the GOP. That’s why they support universal healthcare, unlike the GOP. That’s why they support public education unlike the GOP. That is why they support free and fair elections unlike the GOP."
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        date: 2023-11-08 22:05:00.0 +01:00
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    +body: """
      Yep. You can vote for the bad party or you can vote for the party that wants you dead. At least if you keep voting for the bad party the other side will get less bad to get more votes. Then you vote for the less bad party and so on until they actually start being good.\n
      \n
      It’s so easy, but general population for some reason don’t think that way.
      """
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      "@ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world"
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      date: 2023-11-08 22:30:12.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4142}
  +body: """
    An easy solution will always sound more appealing than a complex one, even if the easy solution is a lie. MAGA Republicans offer only this.\n
    \n
    Worried about immigration? “Build the wall!”\n
    \n
    Think government is corrupt? “Drain the swamp”\n
    \n
    Does LGBT stuff confuse you “Groomers!”\n
    \n
    Scared of change? “Make America Great Again”\n
    \n
    No real understanding of any of the underlying problems and no plans to address them. Just catchy slogans.
    """
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    "@ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world"
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
39 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5340
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
      +name: "memes@lemmy.world"
      +title: "memes"
      +description: """
        Community rules\n
        ---------------\n
        \n
        1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
        \n
        3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
        \n
        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
        \n
        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#1970 …}
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    +slug: "Two-Party-System-Why"
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    +url: "https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/4c96ba32-e740-4fe9-9bd4-f03c00518d72.webp"
    +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
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      +body: "This is dumb as shit. Democrats aren’t perfect but they do care. That is why they actively took steps to stop people from dying during COVID unlike the GOP. That’s why they support universal healthcare, unlike the GOP. That’s why they support public education unlike the GOP. That is why they support free and fair elections unlike the GOP."
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      Yep. You can vote for the bad party or you can vote for the party that wants you dead. At least if you keep voting for the bad party the other side will get less bad to get more votes. Then you vote for the less bad party and so on until they actually start being good.\n
      \n
      It’s so easy, but general population for some reason don’t think that way.
      """
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    +ranking: 0
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      date: 2023-11-08 22:30:12.0 +01:00
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  }
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4142}
  +body: """
    An easy solution will always sound more appealing than a complex one, even if the easy solution is a lie. MAGA Republicans offer only this.\n
    \n
    Worried about immigration? “Build the wall!”\n
    \n
    Think government is corrupt? “Drain the swamp”\n
    \n
    Does LGBT stuff confuse you “Groomers!”\n
    \n
    Scared of change? “Make America Great Again”\n
    \n
    No real understanding of any of the underlying problems and no plans to address them. Just catchy slogans.
    """
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    date: 2023-11-09 00:28:33.0 +01:00
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
40 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5340
  +user: App\Entity\User {#4155 …}
  +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2400
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
      +name: "memes@lemmy.world"
      +title: "memes"
      +description: """
        Community rules\n
        ---------------\n
        \n
        1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
        \n
        3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
        \n
        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
        \n
        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
      +rules: null
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      Yep. You can vote for the bad party or you can vote for the party that wants you dead. At least if you keep voting for the bad party the other side will get less bad to get more votes. Then you vote for the less bad party and so on until they actually start being good.\n
      \n
      It’s so easy, but general population for some reason don’t think that way.
      """
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    An easy solution will always sound more appealing than a complex one, even if the easy solution is a lie. MAGA Republicans offer only this.\n
    \n
    Worried about immigration? “Build the wall!”\n
    \n
    Think government is corrupt? “Drain the swamp”\n
    \n
    Does LGBT stuff confuse you “Groomers!”\n
    \n
    Scared of change? “Make America Great Again”\n
    \n
    No real understanding of any of the underlying problems and no plans to address them. Just catchy slogans.
    """
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41 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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42 DENIED moderate 
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        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
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        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
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        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
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        \n
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        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
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    +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
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        +body: "This is dumb as shit. Democrats aren’t perfect but they do care. That is why they actively took steps to stop people from dying during COVID unlike the GOP. That’s why they support universal healthcare, unlike the GOP. That’s why they support public education unlike the GOP. That is why they support free and fair elections unlike the GOP."
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        Yep. You can vote for the bad party or you can vote for the party that wants you dead. At least if you keep voting for the bad party the other side will get less bad to get more votes. Then you vote for the less bad party and so on until they actually start being good.\n
        \n
        It’s so easy, but general population for some reason don’t think that way.
        """
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      An easy solution will always sound more appealing than a complex one, even if the easy solution is a lie. MAGA Republicans offer only this.\n
      \n
      Worried about immigration? “Build the wall!”\n
      \n
      Think government is corrupt? “Drain the swamp”\n
      \n
      Does LGBT stuff confuse you “Groomers!”\n
      \n
      Scared of change? “Make America Great Again”\n
      \n
      No real understanding of any of the underlying problems and no plans to address them. Just catchy slogans.
      """
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      date: 2023-11-09 00:28:33.0 +01:00
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4142}
  +body: "> Just catchy stupid slogans that appeal to the worst americans"
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
43 DENIED edit 
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    +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
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        +body: "This is dumb as shit. Democrats aren’t perfect but they do care. That is why they actively took steps to stop people from dying during COVID unlike the GOP. That’s why they support universal healthcare, unlike the GOP. That’s why they support public education unlike the GOP. That is why they support free and fair elections unlike the GOP."
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        Yep. You can vote for the bad party or you can vote for the party that wants you dead. At least if you keep voting for the bad party the other side will get less bad to get more votes. Then you vote for the less bad party and so on until they actually start being good.\n
        \n
        It’s so easy, but general population for some reason don’t think that way.
        """
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      An easy solution will always sound more appealing than a complex one, even if the easy solution is a lie. MAGA Republicans offer only this.\n
      \n
      Worried about immigration? “Build the wall!”\n
      \n
      Think government is corrupt? “Drain the swamp”\n
      \n
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      \n
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      No real understanding of any of the underlying problems and no plans to address them. Just catchy slogans.
      """
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
44 DENIED moderate 
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        +body: "This is dumb as shit. Democrats aren’t perfect but they do care. That is why they actively took steps to stop people from dying during COVID unlike the GOP. That’s why they support universal healthcare, unlike the GOP. That’s why they support public education unlike the GOP. That is why they support free and fair elections unlike the GOP."
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      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4142}
      +body: """
        Yep. You can vote for the bad party or you can vote for the party that wants you dead. At least if you keep voting for the bad party the other side will get less bad to get more votes. Then you vote for the less bad party and so on until they actually start being good.\n
        \n
        It’s so easy, but general population for some reason don’t think that way.
        """
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        date: 2023-11-08 22:30:12.0 +01:00
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4142}
    +body: """
      An easy solution will always sound more appealing than a complex one, even if the easy solution is a lie. MAGA Republicans offer only this.\n
      \n
      Worried about immigration? “Build the wall!”\n
      \n
      Think government is corrupt? “Drain the swamp”\n
      \n
      Does LGBT stuff confuse you “Groomers!”\n
      \n
      Scared of change? “Make America Great Again”\n
      \n
      No real understanding of any of the underlying problems and no plans to address them. Just catchy slogans.
      """
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  +body: "> Just catchy stupid slogans that appeal to the worst americans"
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45 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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46 DENIED moderate 
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47 DENIED edit 
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        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
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Show voter details
48 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4215
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        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
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51 DENIED edit 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
52 DENIED moderate 
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      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
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        Community rules\n
        ---------------\n
        \n
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        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
        \n
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        \n
        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
        \n
        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
53 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
54 DENIED moderate 
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        ---------------\n
        \n
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        \n
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        \n
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        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
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  +body: "Oof I forgot that was a thing, thanks lol"
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
55 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5355
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        ---------------\n
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        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
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        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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Show voter details
56 DENIED moderate 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
57 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
58 DENIED moderate 
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    Because:\n
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    \n
    In fact, without McCarthy and the Red Scare, I would find it strange that the American political scene has developed a nationalist “Republican” party and a moderately conservative “Democrat” party. Many more sane parliaments and governments develop their left to be a socialist or labour party.
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
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59 DENIED edit 
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        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
60 DENIED moderate 
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        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
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        Sister communities\n
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        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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61 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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62 DENIED moderate 
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        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
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    +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
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      Because:\n
      \n
      A: the system is able to elect candidates who win despite only getting a minority of the vote. This problem becomes worse the more parties participate.\n
      \n
      B: in order to maximise the chance of an acceptable compromise taking office, very fringe groups must vote for a very mainstream party. Usually that leaves only two parties that make sense.\n
      \n
      C: as these parties become *the* political space, voting for a specific interest can erode support for the nearest main party, guaranteeing a victory for the other main party.\n
      \n
      Bonus: D: growing comfortable with their voter base, it is in parties’ interest to grow more radical.\n
      \n
      In fact, without McCarthy and the Red Scare, I would find it strange that the American political scene has developed a nationalist “Republican” party and a moderately conservative “Democrat” party. Many more sane parliaments and governments develop their left to be a socialist or labour party.
      """
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      date: 2023-11-08 17:06:21.0 +01:00
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    So our choices in America are between conservative and slightly-less-conservative? So there’s a growing demand for a socialist party that doesn’t exist, but if it did exist it would lead to the domination of conservatives in politics?\n
    \n
    Sounds like ranked choice voting would really help out with a lot of the issues that you presented. It’s too bad that the people who make our laws were voted in using the old system and changing that system in any way is a conflict of interest for them.\n
    \n
    I guess things will only ever change if we force the issue.
    """
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
63 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5187
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978 …}
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      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
      +name: "memes@lemmy.world"
      +title: "memes"
      +description: """
        Community rules\n
        ---------------\n
        \n
        1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
        \n
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        \n
        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
        \n
        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
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    +body: """
      Because:\n
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      \n
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      \n
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      \n
      Bonus: D: growing comfortable with their voter base, it is in parties’ interest to grow more radical.\n
      \n
      In fact, without McCarthy and the Red Scare, I would find it strange that the American political scene has developed a nationalist “Republican” party and a moderately conservative “Democrat” party. Many more sane parliaments and governments develop their left to be a socialist or labour party.
      """
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  +body: """
    So our choices in America are between conservative and slightly-less-conservative? So there’s a growing demand for a socialist party that doesn’t exist, but if it did exist it would lead to the domination of conservatives in politics?\n
    \n
    Sounds like ranked choice voting would really help out with a lot of the issues that you presented. It’s too bad that the people who make our laws were voted in using the old system and changing that system in any way is a conflict of interest for them.\n
    \n
    I guess things will only ever change if we force the issue.
    """
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}
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
64 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5187
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#5188 …}
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
      +name: "memes@lemmy.world"
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      +description: """
        Community rules\n
        ---------------\n
        \n
        1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
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        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
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        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
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        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
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        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
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      Because:\n
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      \n
      C: as these parties become *the* political space, voting for a specific interest can erode support for the nearest main party, guaranteeing a victory for the other main party.\n
      \n
      Bonus: D: growing comfortable with their voter base, it is in parties’ interest to grow more radical.\n
      \n
      In fact, without McCarthy and the Red Scare, I would find it strange that the American political scene has developed a nationalist “Republican” party and a moderately conservative “Democrat” party. Many more sane parliaments and governments develop their left to be a socialist or labour party.
      """
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    So our choices in America are between conservative and slightly-less-conservative? So there’s a growing demand for a socialist party that doesn’t exist, but if it did exist it would lead to the domination of conservatives in politics?\n
    \n
    Sounds like ranked choice voting would really help out with a lot of the issues that you presented. It’s too bad that the people who make our laws were voted in using the old system and changing that system in any way is a conflict of interest for them.\n
    \n
    I guess things will only ever change if we force the issue.
    """
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        \n
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        \n
        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
        \n
        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
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        Because:\n
        \n
        A: the system is able to elect candidates who win despite only getting a minority of the vote. This problem becomes worse the more parties participate.\n
        \n
        B: in order to maximise the chance of an acceptable compromise taking office, very fringe groups must vote for a very mainstream party. Usually that leaves only two parties that make sense.\n
        \n
        C: as these parties become *the* political space, voting for a specific interest can erode support for the nearest main party, guaranteeing a victory for the other main party.\n
        \n
        Bonus: D: growing comfortable with their voter base, it is in parties’ interest to grow more radical.\n
        \n
        In fact, without McCarthy and the Red Scare, I would find it strange that the American political scene has developed a nationalist “Republican” party and a moderately conservative “Democrat” party. Many more sane parliaments and governments develop their left to be a socialist or labour party.
        """
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      So our choices in America are between conservative and slightly-less-conservative? So there’s a growing demand for a socialist party that doesn’t exist, but if it did exist it would lead to the domination of conservatives in politics?\n
      \n
      Sounds like ranked choice voting would really help out with a lot of the issues that you presented. It’s too bad that the people who make our laws were voted in using the old system and changing that system in any way is a conflict of interest for them.\n
      \n
      I guess things will only ever change if we force the issue.
      """
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  +body: "It’s one of the reasons why I think America is institutionally fucked & rotten, that it’ll take the better part of two centuries to fix it, and that if instead we want stuff to be fixed within a generation, we may need a violent uprising."
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
67 DENIED edit 
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        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
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    +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
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        Because:\n
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        In fact, without McCarthy and the Red Scare, I would find it strange that the American political scene has developed a nationalist “Republican” party and a moderately conservative “Democrat” party. Many more sane parliaments and governments develop their left to be a socialist or labour party.
        """
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        date: 2023-11-08 17:06:21.0 +01:00
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      So our choices in America are between conservative and slightly-less-conservative? So there’s a growing demand for a socialist party that doesn’t exist, but if it did exist it would lead to the domination of conservatives in politics?\n
      \n
      Sounds like ranked choice voting would really help out with a lot of the issues that you presented. It’s too bad that the people who make our laws were voted in using the old system and changing that system in any way is a conflict of interest for them.\n
      \n
      I guess things will only ever change if we force the issue.
      """
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  +body: "It’s one of the reasons why I think America is institutionally fucked & rotten, that it’ll take the better part of two centuries to fix it, and that if instead we want stuff to be fixed within a generation, we may need a violent uprising."
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
68 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5325
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        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
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        Because:\n
        \n
        A: the system is able to elect candidates who win despite only getting a minority of the vote. This problem becomes worse the more parties participate.\n
        \n
        B: in order to maximise the chance of an acceptable compromise taking office, very fringe groups must vote for a very mainstream party. Usually that leaves only two parties that make sense.\n
        \n
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        \n
        In fact, without McCarthy and the Red Scare, I would find it strange that the American political scene has developed a nationalist “Republican” party and a moderately conservative “Democrat” party. Many more sane parliaments and governments develop their left to be a socialist or labour party.
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      So our choices in America are between conservative and slightly-less-conservative? So there’s a growing demand for a socialist party that doesn’t exist, but if it did exist it would lead to the domination of conservatives in politics?\n
      \n
      Sounds like ranked choice voting would really help out with a lot of the issues that you presented. It’s too bad that the people who make our laws were voted in using the old system and changing that system in any way is a conflict of interest for them.\n
      \n
      I guess things will only ever change if we force the issue.
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  +body: "It’s one of the reasons why I think America is institutionally fucked & rotten, that it’ll take the better part of two centuries to fix it, and that if instead we want stuff to be fixed within a generation, we may need a violent uprising."
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        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
76 DENIED moderate 
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        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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Show voter details
77 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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Show voter details
78 DENIED moderate 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
79 DENIED edit 
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        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
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80 DENIED moderate 
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        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
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81 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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Show voter details
82 DENIED moderate 
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    \n
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
83 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4508
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        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
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        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
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84 DENIED moderate 
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        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
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85 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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86 DENIED moderate 
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87 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4581
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88 DENIED moderate 
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90 DENIED moderate 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
91 DENIED edit 
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        \n
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        \n
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        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
92 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5155
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        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
93 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
94 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4655
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        ---------------\n
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    Imho the two party system is just a way to manipulate people and then put them against each other. Treating life like it’s black or white like you either are an ally or a lifelong enemy that must be vanquished.\n
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Show voter details
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        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
96 DENIED moderate 
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        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
97 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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Show voter details
98 DENIED moderate 
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        ------------------\n
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        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
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Show voter details
99 DENIED edit 
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        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
100 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4728
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
101 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
102 DENIED moderate 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
103 DENIED edit 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
104 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#4801
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
105 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
106 DENIED moderate 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
108 DENIED moderate 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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Show voter details
109 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
110 DENIED moderate 
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115 DENIED edit 
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    In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
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    In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
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    I still think that two party system is better.
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        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
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      In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
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      I still think that two party system is better.
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    Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
    \n
    And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
    """
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119 DENIED edit 
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        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
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      In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
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      date: 2023-11-08 03:04:57.0 +01:00
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  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4948}
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    Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
    \n
    And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
    """
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}
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
120 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5123
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#5124 …}
  +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2400
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978 …}
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      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
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      +title: "memes"
      +description: """
        Community rules\n
        ---------------\n
        \n
        1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
        \n
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        \n
        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
        \n
        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
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    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#1970 …}
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    +slug: "Two-Party-System-Why"
    +title: "Two Party System. Why."
    +url: "https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/4c96ba32-e740-4fe9-9bd4-f03c00518d72.webp"
    +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
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      In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
      \n
      In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
      \n
      I still think that two party system is better.
      """
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  }
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4948}
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    Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
    \n
    And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
    """
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}
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
121 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
122 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5309
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978 …}
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      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
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        Community rules\n
        ---------------\n
        \n
        1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
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        \n
        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
        \n
        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
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    +slug: "Two-Party-System-Why"
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        In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
        \n
        In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
        \n
        I still think that two party system is better.
        """
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      +apId: "https://kbin.social/m/memes@lemmy.world/t/607069/-/comment/3427958"
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        date: 2023-11-08 03:04:57.0 +01:00
      }
    }
    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4948}
    +body: """
      Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
      \n
      And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
      """
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      "@balderdash9@lemmy.zip"
      "@MxM111@kbin.social"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#5125 …}
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    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#5129 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#5131 …}
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      date: 2023-11-08 15:56:33.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4948}
  +body: """
    Multiparty system offers much better option to vote for, but then there is only one coalition. So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
    \n
    Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions” that you mention, but here, they are talking directly to voters, as opposed to each other. Again, I see advantage of two party system here.\n
    \n
    I believe that bad perception of two party system is because now, we truly have two camps in our culture - the society is broken in two, cohesiveness is lost. But it is not because of the two party system, it is the opposite: because of this cultural break it propagated, “mirrored” into our politics. But it is exactly how it supposed to work in representative democracy. It would be strange if we had this cultural problem and our politicians would not.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 0
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1699473982 {#5301
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    "@balderdash9@lemmy.zip"
    "@MxM111@kbin.social"
    "@Kusimulkku@lemm.ee"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#5311 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#5313 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#5315 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#5317 …}
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
123 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5309
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  +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2400
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
      +name: "memes@lemmy.world"
      +title: "memes"
      +description: """
        Community rules\n
        ---------------\n
        \n
        1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
        \n
        3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
        \n
        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
        \n
        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
      +rules: null
      +subscriptionsCount: 1
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      +isAdult: false
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        date: 2024-10-22 09:23:16.0 +02:00
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      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +tags: null
      +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#237 …}
      +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#222 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#180 …}
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      +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes"
      +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes/followers"
      +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
      +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
      +apPreferredUsername: "memes"
      +apDiscoverable: true
      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
      +privateKey: null
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      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728743545 {#269
        date: 2024-10-12 16:32:25.0 +02:00
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        date: 2023-11-04 08:50:55.0 +01:00
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    }
    +image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#1970 …}
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#1915 …}
    +slug: "Two-Party-System-Why"
    +title: "Two Party System. Why."
    +url: "https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/4c96ba32-e740-4fe9-9bd4-f03c00518d72.webp"
    +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
    +type: "link"
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      date: 2023-11-08 14:59:06.0 +01:00
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      date: 2023-11-08 01:43:23.0 +01:00
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  }
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265}
  +image: null
  +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#5123
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#5124 …}
    +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2400}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265}
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    +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4948
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      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265}
      +image: null
      +parent: null
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      +body: """
        In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
        \n
        In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
        \n
        I still think that two party system is better.
        """
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      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4949 …}
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        date: 2023-11-08 03:04:57.0 +01:00
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    }
    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4948}
    +body: """
      Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
      \n
      And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
      """
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      "@balderdash9@lemmy.zip"
      "@MxM111@kbin.social"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#5125 …}
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    +ranking: 0
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      date: 2023-11-08 15:56:33.0 +01:00
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  }
  +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4948}
  +body: """
    Multiparty system offers much better option to vote for, but then there is only one coalition. So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
    \n
    Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions” that you mention, but here, they are talking directly to voters, as opposed to each other. Again, I see advantage of two party system here.\n
    \n
    I believe that bad perception of two party system is because now, we truly have two camps in our culture - the society is broken in two, cohesiveness is lost. But it is not because of the two party system, it is the opposite: because of this cultural break it propagated, “mirrored” into our politics. But it is exactly how it supposed to work in representative democracy. It would be strange if we had this cultural problem and our politicians would not.
    """
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    "@MxM111@kbin.social"
    "@Kusimulkku@lemm.ee"
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  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#5311 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#5313 …}
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}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
124 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5309
  +user: App\Entity\User {#4961 …}
  +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#2400
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1978 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#265
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
      +name: "memes@lemmy.world"
      +title: "memes"
      +description: """
        Community rules\n
        ---------------\n
        \n
        1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
        \n
        3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
        \n
        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
        \n
        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
      +rules: null
      +subscriptionsCount: 1
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      +isAdult: false
      +customCss: null
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      }
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        In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
        \n
        In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
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        I still think that two party system is better.
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      Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
      \n
      And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
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    Multiparty system offers much better option to vote for, but then there is only one coalition. So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
    \n
    Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions” that you mention, but here, they are talking directly to voters, as opposed to each other. Again, I see advantage of two party system here.\n
    \n
    I believe that bad perception of two party system is because now, we truly have two camps in our culture - the society is broken in two, cohesiveness is lost. But it is not because of the two party system, it is the opposite: because of this cultural break it propagated, “mirrored” into our politics. But it is exactly how it supposed to work in representative democracy. It would be strange if we had this cultural problem and our politicians would not.
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        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
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        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
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          In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
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          In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
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          I still think that two party system is better.
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        Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
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        And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
        """
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      Multiparty system offers much better option to vote for, but then there is only one coalition. So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
      \n
      Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions” that you mention, but here, they are talking directly to voters, as opposed to each other. Again, I see advantage of two party system here.\n
      \n
      I believe that bad perception of two party system is because now, we truly have two camps in our culture - the society is broken in two, cohesiveness is lost. But it is not because of the two party system, it is the opposite: because of this cultural break it propagated, “mirrored” into our politics. But it is exactly how it supposed to work in representative democracy. It would be strange if we had this cultural problem and our politicians would not.
      """
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    Two party system is just a bad idea if you want to have options. It’s basically left or right and if you’re not pleased by their politics, what can you do, not vote or vote the other side even further from you?\n
    \n
    > then there is only one coalition\n
    \n
    I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions. All depends on who can make the 50%, if they’re going for a majority government.\n
    \n
    > So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
    \n
    You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party, since they have to please most of the voter base anyway and try to fish for new voters from the other side.\n
    \n
    > Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions”\n
    \n
    The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again, and reacting fairly little to that sort of stuff. It’s nowhere near the difference from voters switching to a different party altogether.
    """
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
127 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5374
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      +description: """
        Community rules\n
        ---------------\n
        \n
        1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
        \n
        3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
        \n
        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
        \n
        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
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    +slug: "Two-Party-System-Why"
    +title: "Two Party System. Why."
    +url: "https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/4c96ba32-e740-4fe9-9bd4-f03c00518d72.webp"
    +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
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        +body: """
          In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
          \n
          In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
          \n
          I still think that two party system is better.
          """
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      +body: """
        Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
        \n
        And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
        """
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      Multiparty system offers much better option to vote for, but then there is only one coalition. So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
      \n
      Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions” that you mention, but here, they are talking directly to voters, as opposed to each other. Again, I see advantage of two party system here.\n
      \n
      I believe that bad perception of two party system is because now, we truly have two camps in our culture - the society is broken in two, cohesiveness is lost. But it is not because of the two party system, it is the opposite: because of this cultural break it propagated, “mirrored” into our politics. But it is exactly how it supposed to work in representative democracy. It would be strange if we had this cultural problem and our politicians would not.
      """
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  +body: """
    Two party system is just a bad idea if you want to have options. It’s basically left or right and if you’re not pleased by their politics, what can you do, not vote or vote the other side even further from you?\n
    \n
    > then there is only one coalition\n
    \n
    I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions. All depends on who can make the 50%, if they’re going for a majority government.\n
    \n
    > So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
    \n
    You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party, since they have to please most of the voter base anyway and try to fish for new voters from the other side.\n
    \n
    > Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions”\n
    \n
    The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again, and reacting fairly little to that sort of stuff. It’s nowhere near the difference from voters switching to a different party altogether.
    """
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        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
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    +slug: "Two-Party-System-Why"
    +title: "Two Party System. Why."
    +url: "https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/4c96ba32-e740-4fe9-9bd4-f03c00518d72.webp"
    +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
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        +body: """
          In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
          \n
          In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
          \n
          I still think that two party system is better.
          """
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      +body: """
        Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
        \n
        And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
        """
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    +body: """
      Multiparty system offers much better option to vote for, but then there is only one coalition. So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
      \n
      Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions” that you mention, but here, they are talking directly to voters, as opposed to each other. Again, I see advantage of two party system here.\n
      \n
      I believe that bad perception of two party system is because now, we truly have two camps in our culture - the society is broken in two, cohesiveness is lost. But it is not because of the two party system, it is the opposite: because of this cultural break it propagated, “mirrored” into our politics. But it is exactly how it supposed to work in representative democracy. It would be strange if we had this cultural problem and our politicians would not.
      """
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  +body: """
    Two party system is just a bad idea if you want to have options. It’s basically left or right and if you’re not pleased by their politics, what can you do, not vote or vote the other side even further from you?\n
    \n
    > then there is only one coalition\n
    \n
    I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions. All depends on who can make the 50%, if they’re going for a majority government.\n
    \n
    > So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
    \n
    You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party, since they have to please most of the voter base anyway and try to fish for new voters from the other side.\n
    \n
    > Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions”\n
    \n
    The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again, and reacting fairly little to that sort of stuff. It’s nowhere near the difference from voters switching to a different party altogether.
    """
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129 DENIED ROLE_USER 
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130 DENIED moderate 
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        ---------------\n
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        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
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        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
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    +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
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            In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
            \n
            In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
            \n
            I still think that two party system is better.
            """
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          Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
          \n
          And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
          """
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        Multiparty system offers much better option to vote for, but then there is only one coalition. So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
        \n
        Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions” that you mention, but here, they are talking directly to voters, as opposed to each other. Again, I see advantage of two party system here.\n
        \n
        I believe that bad perception of two party system is because now, we truly have two camps in our culture - the society is broken in two, cohesiveness is lost. But it is not because of the two party system, it is the opposite: because of this cultural break it propagated, “mirrored” into our politics. But it is exactly how it supposed to work in representative democracy. It would be strange if we had this cultural problem and our politicians would not.
        """
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      Two party system is just a bad idea if you want to have options. It’s basically left or right and if you’re not pleased by their politics, what can you do, not vote or vote the other side even further from you?\n
      \n
      > then there is only one coalition\n
      \n
      I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions. All depends on who can make the 50%, if they’re going for a majority government.\n
      \n
      > So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
      \n
      You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party, since they have to please most of the voter base anyway and try to fish for new voters from the other side.\n
      \n
      > Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions”\n
      \n
      The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again, and reacting fairly little to that sort of stuff. It’s nowhere near the difference from voters switching to a different party altogether.
      """
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    > I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions.\n
    \n
    There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
    \n
    > You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party...\n
    \n
    I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
    \n
    > The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again\n
    \n
    Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?
    """
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131 DENIED edit 
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        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
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        Sister communities\n
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        \n
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        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
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    +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
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          +body: """
            In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
            \n
            In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
            \n
            I still think that two party system is better.
            """
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          Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
          \n
          And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
          """
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        Multiparty system offers much better option to vote for, but then there is only one coalition. So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
        \n
        Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions” that you mention, but here, they are talking directly to voters, as opposed to each other. Again, I see advantage of two party system here.\n
        \n
        I believe that bad perception of two party system is because now, we truly have two camps in our culture - the society is broken in two, cohesiveness is lost. But it is not because of the two party system, it is the opposite: because of this cultural break it propagated, “mirrored” into our politics. But it is exactly how it supposed to work in representative democracy. It would be strange if we had this cultural problem and our politicians would not.
        """
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    +body: """
      Two party system is just a bad idea if you want to have options. It’s basically left or right and if you’re not pleased by their politics, what can you do, not vote or vote the other side even further from you?\n
      \n
      > then there is only one coalition\n
      \n
      I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions. All depends on who can make the 50%, if they’re going for a majority government.\n
      \n
      > So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
      \n
      You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party, since they have to please most of the voter base anyway and try to fish for new voters from the other side.\n
      \n
      > Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions”\n
      \n
      The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again, and reacting fairly little to that sort of stuff. It’s nowhere near the difference from voters switching to a different party altogether.
      """
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    > I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions.\n
    \n
    There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
    \n
    > You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party...\n
    \n
    I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
    \n
    > The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again\n
    \n
    Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?
    """
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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Show voter details
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#5408
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        Community rules\n
        ---------------\n
        \n
        1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
        \n
        3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
        \n
        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
        \n
        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
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    +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
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            In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
            \n
            In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
            \n
            I still think that two party system is better.
            """
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        +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4948}
        +body: """
          Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
          \n
          And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
          """
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      +body: """
        Multiparty system offers much better option to vote for, but then there is only one coalition. So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
        \n
        Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions” that you mention, but here, they are talking directly to voters, as opposed to each other. Again, I see advantage of two party system here.\n
        \n
        I believe that bad perception of two party system is because now, we truly have two camps in our culture - the society is broken in two, cohesiveness is lost. But it is not because of the two party system, it is the opposite: because of this cultural break it propagated, “mirrored” into our politics. But it is exactly how it supposed to work in representative democracy. It would be strange if we had this cultural problem and our politicians would not.
        """
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    +body: """
      Two party system is just a bad idea if you want to have options. It’s basically left or right and if you’re not pleased by their politics, what can you do, not vote or vote the other side even further from you?\n
      \n
      > then there is only one coalition\n
      \n
      I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions. All depends on who can make the 50%, if they’re going for a majority government.\n
      \n
      > So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
      \n
      You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party, since they have to please most of the voter base anyway and try to fish for new voters from the other side.\n
      \n
      > Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions”\n
      \n
      The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again, and reacting fairly little to that sort of stuff. It’s nowhere near the difference from voters switching to a different party altogether.
      """
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    > I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions.\n
    \n
    There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
    \n
    > You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party...\n
    \n
    I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
    \n
    > The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again\n
    \n
    Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?
    """
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        Community rules\n
        ---------------\n
        \n
        1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
        \n
        3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
        \n
        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
        \n
        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
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    +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
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            +body: """
              In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
              \n
              In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
              \n
              I still think that two party system is better.
              """
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            Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
            \n
            And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
            """
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          Multiparty system offers much better option to vote for, but then there is only one coalition. So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
          \n
          Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions” that you mention, but here, they are talking directly to voters, as opposed to each other. Again, I see advantage of two party system here.\n
          \n
          I believe that bad perception of two party system is because now, we truly have two camps in our culture - the society is broken in two, cohesiveness is lost. But it is not because of the two party system, it is the opposite: because of this cultural break it propagated, “mirrored” into our politics. But it is exactly how it supposed to work in representative democracy. It would be strange if we had this cultural problem and our politicians would not.
          """
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      +body: """
        Two party system is just a bad idea if you want to have options. It’s basically left or right and if you’re not pleased by their politics, what can you do, not vote or vote the other side even further from you?\n
        \n
        > then there is only one coalition\n
        \n
        I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions. All depends on who can make the 50%, if they’re going for a majority government.\n
        \n
        > So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
        \n
        You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party, since they have to please most of the voter base anyway and try to fish for new voters from the other side.\n
        \n
        > Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions”\n
        \n
        The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again, and reacting fairly little to that sort of stuff. It’s nowhere near the difference from voters switching to a different party altogether.
        """
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      > I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions.\n
      \n
      There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
      \n
      > You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party...\n
      \n
      I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
      \n
      > The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again\n
      \n
      Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?
      """
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  +body: """
    > There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
    \n
    Of course you (and other voters) contribute. The biggest party typically is one that forms the coalition and the vote share and recent performance at the poll among other things affects that.\n
    \n
    > I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
    \n
    They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
    \n
    > Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?\n
    \n
    No?? I’m saying the parties do similar sort of politics as they’ve been doing for decades. Voters swinging to the left has little effect when it’s the same Democrat party in rule. Or same for right wing. You need something dramatic for the position to actually move.
    """
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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Show voter details
135 DENIED edit 
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      +description: """
        Community rules\n
        ---------------\n
        \n
        1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
        \n
        3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
        \n
        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
        \n
        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
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    +url: "https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/4c96ba32-e740-4fe9-9bd4-f03c00518d72.webp"
    +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
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              In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
              \n
              In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
              \n
              I still think that two party system is better.
              """
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            Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
            \n
            And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
            """
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          Multiparty system offers much better option to vote for, but then there is only one coalition. So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
          \n
          Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions” that you mention, but here, they are talking directly to voters, as opposed to each other. Again, I see advantage of two party system here.\n
          \n
          I believe that bad perception of two party system is because now, we truly have two camps in our culture - the society is broken in two, cohesiveness is lost. But it is not because of the two party system, it is the opposite: because of this cultural break it propagated, “mirrored” into our politics. But it is exactly how it supposed to work in representative democracy. It would be strange if we had this cultural problem and our politicians would not.
          """
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        Two party system is just a bad idea if you want to have options. It’s basically left or right and if you’re not pleased by their politics, what can you do, not vote or vote the other side even further from you?\n
        \n
        > then there is only one coalition\n
        \n
        I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions. All depends on who can make the 50%, if they’re going for a majority government.\n
        \n
        > So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
        \n
        You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party, since they have to please most of the voter base anyway and try to fish for new voters from the other side.\n
        \n
        > Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions”\n
        \n
        The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again, and reacting fairly little to that sort of stuff. It’s nowhere near the difference from voters switching to a different party altogether.
        """
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      > I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions.\n
      \n
      There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
      \n
      > You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party...\n
      \n
      I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
      \n
      > The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again\n
      \n
      Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?
      """
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    > There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
    \n
    Of course you (and other voters) contribute. The biggest party typically is one that forms the coalition and the vote share and recent performance at the poll among other things affects that.\n
    \n
    > I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
    \n
    They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
    \n
    > Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?\n
    \n
    No?? I’m saying the parties do similar sort of politics as they’ve been doing for decades. Voters swinging to the left has little effect when it’s the same Democrat party in rule. Or same for right wing. You need something dramatic for the position to actually move.
    """
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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136 DENIED moderate 
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      +description: """
        Community rules\n
        ---------------\n
        \n
        1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
        \n
        3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
        \n
        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
        \n
        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
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    +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
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              In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
              \n
              In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
              \n
              I still think that two party system is better.
              """
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            Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
            \n
            And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
            """
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          Multiparty system offers much better option to vote for, but then there is only one coalition. So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
          \n
          Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions” that you mention, but here, they are talking directly to voters, as opposed to each other. Again, I see advantage of two party system here.\n
          \n
          I believe that bad perception of two party system is because now, we truly have two camps in our culture - the society is broken in two, cohesiveness is lost. But it is not because of the two party system, it is the opposite: because of this cultural break it propagated, “mirrored” into our politics. But it is exactly how it supposed to work in representative democracy. It would be strange if we had this cultural problem and our politicians would not.
          """
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      +body: """
        Two party system is just a bad idea if you want to have options. It’s basically left or right and if you’re not pleased by their politics, what can you do, not vote or vote the other side even further from you?\n
        \n
        > then there is only one coalition\n
        \n
        I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions. All depends on who can make the 50%, if they’re going for a majority government.\n
        \n
        > So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
        \n
        You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party, since they have to please most of the voter base anyway and try to fish for new voters from the other side.\n
        \n
        > Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions”\n
        \n
        The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again, and reacting fairly little to that sort of stuff. It’s nowhere near the difference from voters switching to a different party altogether.
        """
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      > I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions.\n
      \n
      There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
      \n
      > You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party...\n
      \n
      I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
      \n
      > The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again\n
      \n
      Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?
      """
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  +body: """
    > There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
    \n
    Of course you (and other voters) contribute. The biggest party typically is one that forms the coalition and the vote share and recent performance at the poll among other things affects that.\n
    \n
    > I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
    \n
    They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
    \n
    > Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?\n
    \n
    No?? I’m saying the parties do similar sort of politics as they’ve been doing for decades. Voters swinging to the left has little effect when it’s the same Democrat party in rule. Or same for right wing. You need something dramatic for the position to actually move.
    """
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        Community rules\n
        ---------------\n
        \n
        1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
        \n
        3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
        \n
        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
        \n
        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
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                In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
                \n
                In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
                \n
                I still think that two party system is better.
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            +body: """
              Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
              \n
              And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
              """
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          +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4948}
          +body: """
            Multiparty system offers much better option to vote for, but then there is only one coalition. So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
            \n
            Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions” that you mention, but here, they are talking directly to voters, as opposed to each other. Again, I see advantage of two party system here.\n
            \n
            I believe that bad perception of two party system is because now, we truly have two camps in our culture - the society is broken in two, cohesiveness is lost. But it is not because of the two party system, it is the opposite: because of this cultural break it propagated, “mirrored” into our politics. But it is exactly how it supposed to work in representative democracy. It would be strange if we had this cultural problem and our politicians would not.
            """
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        +body: """
          Two party system is just a bad idea if you want to have options. It’s basically left or right and if you’re not pleased by their politics, what can you do, not vote or vote the other side even further from you?\n
          \n
          > then there is only one coalition\n
          \n
          I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions. All depends on who can make the 50%, if they’re going for a majority government.\n
          \n
          > So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
          \n
          You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party, since they have to please most of the voter base anyway and try to fish for new voters from the other side.\n
          \n
          > Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions”\n
          \n
          The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again, and reacting fairly little to that sort of stuff. It’s nowhere near the difference from voters switching to a different party altogether.
          """
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        > I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions.\n
        \n
        There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
        \n
        > You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party...\n
        \n
        I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
        \n
        > The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again\n
        \n
        Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?
        """
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    +body: """
      > There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
      \n
      Of course you (and other voters) contribute. The biggest party typically is one that forms the coalition and the vote share and recent performance at the poll among other things affects that.\n
      \n
      > I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
      \n
      They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
      \n
      > Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?\n
      \n
      No?? I’m saying the parties do similar sort of politics as they’ve been doing for decades. Voters swinging to the left has little effect when it’s the same Democrat party in rule. Or same for right wing. You need something dramatic for the position to actually move.
      """
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  +body: """
    > They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
    \n
    Yes, exactly! But the difference is WHO is making the compromise. You, as a voter, or not. Maybe I like pro-business party but would never, ever vote for party that want to push religion into high school. In US, I will just not vote republican, because I can not make this compromise. But, in other countries, I may vote for pro-business party which then enters into coalition with religious party, and I can not take my vote back. And even in the next election I would not know if pro-business party will end up in coalition with religious party.\n
    \n
    > Or same for right wing.\n
    \n
    I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.
    """
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
139 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5466
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        Community rules\n
        ---------------\n
        \n
        1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
        \n
        3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
        \n
        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
        \n
        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
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    +url: "https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/4c96ba32-e740-4fe9-9bd4-f03c00518d72.webp"
    +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
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              +body: """
                In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
                \n
                In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
                \n
                I still think that two party system is better.
                """
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            +body: """
              Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
              \n
              And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
              """
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          +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4948}
          +body: """
            Multiparty system offers much better option to vote for, but then there is only one coalition. So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
            \n
            Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions” that you mention, but here, they are talking directly to voters, as opposed to each other. Again, I see advantage of two party system here.\n
            \n
            I believe that bad perception of two party system is because now, we truly have two camps in our culture - the society is broken in two, cohesiveness is lost. But it is not because of the two party system, it is the opposite: because of this cultural break it propagated, “mirrored” into our politics. But it is exactly how it supposed to work in representative democracy. It would be strange if we had this cultural problem and our politicians would not.
            """
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        +body: """
          Two party system is just a bad idea if you want to have options. It’s basically left or right and if you’re not pleased by their politics, what can you do, not vote or vote the other side even further from you?\n
          \n
          > then there is only one coalition\n
          \n
          I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions. All depends on who can make the 50%, if they’re going for a majority government.\n
          \n
          > So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
          \n
          You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party, since they have to please most of the voter base anyway and try to fish for new voters from the other side.\n
          \n
          > Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions”\n
          \n
          The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again, and reacting fairly little to that sort of stuff. It’s nowhere near the difference from voters switching to a different party altogether.
          """
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        > I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions.\n
        \n
        There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
        \n
        > You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party...\n
        \n
        I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
        \n
        > The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again\n
        \n
        Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?
        """
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    +body: """
      > There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
      \n
      Of course you (and other voters) contribute. The biggest party typically is one that forms the coalition and the vote share and recent performance at the poll among other things affects that.\n
      \n
      > I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
      \n
      They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
      \n
      > Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?\n
      \n
      No?? I’m saying the parties do similar sort of politics as they’ve been doing for decades. Voters swinging to the left has little effect when it’s the same Democrat party in rule. Or same for right wing. You need something dramatic for the position to actually move.
      """
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  +body: """
    > They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
    \n
    Yes, exactly! But the difference is WHO is making the compromise. You, as a voter, or not. Maybe I like pro-business party but would never, ever vote for party that want to push religion into high school. In US, I will just not vote republican, because I can not make this compromise. But, in other countries, I may vote for pro-business party which then enters into coalition with religious party, and I can not take my vote back. And even in the next election I would not know if pro-business party will end up in coalition with religious party.\n
    \n
    > Or same for right wing.\n
    \n
    I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.
    """
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
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Show voter details
140 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5466
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        Community rules\n
        ---------------\n
        \n
        1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
        \n
        3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
        \n
        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
        \n
        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
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                In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
                \n
                In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
                \n
                I still think that two party system is better.
                """
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              Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
              \n
              And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
              """
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            Multiparty system offers much better option to vote for, but then there is only one coalition. So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
            \n
            Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions” that you mention, but here, they are talking directly to voters, as opposed to each other. Again, I see advantage of two party system here.\n
            \n
            I believe that bad perception of two party system is because now, we truly have two camps in our culture - the society is broken in two, cohesiveness is lost. But it is not because of the two party system, it is the opposite: because of this cultural break it propagated, “mirrored” into our politics. But it is exactly how it supposed to work in representative democracy. It would be strange if we had this cultural problem and our politicians would not.
            """
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          Two party system is just a bad idea if you want to have options. It’s basically left or right and if you’re not pleased by their politics, what can you do, not vote or vote the other side even further from you?\n
          \n
          > then there is only one coalition\n
          \n
          I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions. All depends on who can make the 50%, if they’re going for a majority government.\n
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          > So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
          \n
          You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party, since they have to please most of the voter base anyway and try to fish for new voters from the other side.\n
          \n
          > Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions”\n
          \n
          The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again, and reacting fairly little to that sort of stuff. It’s nowhere near the difference from voters switching to a different party altogether.
          """
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        > I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions.\n
        \n
        There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
        \n
        > You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party...\n
        \n
        I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
        \n
        > The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again\n
        \n
        Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?
        """
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      > There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
      \n
      Of course you (and other voters) contribute. The biggest party typically is one that forms the coalition and the vote share and recent performance at the poll among other things affects that.\n
      \n
      > I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
      \n
      They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
      \n
      > Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?\n
      \n
      No?? I’m saying the parties do similar sort of politics as they’ve been doing for decades. Voters swinging to the left has little effect when it’s the same Democrat party in rule. Or same for right wing. You need something dramatic for the position to actually move.
      """
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    > They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
    \n
    Yes, exactly! But the difference is WHO is making the compromise. You, as a voter, or not. Maybe I like pro-business party but would never, ever vote for party that want to push religion into high school. In US, I will just not vote republican, because I can not make this compromise. But, in other countries, I may vote for pro-business party which then enters into coalition with religious party, and I can not take my vote back. And even in the next election I would not know if pro-business party will end up in coalition with religious party.\n
    \n
    > Or same for right wing.\n
    \n
    I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.
    """
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        Community rules\n
        ---------------\n
        \n
        1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
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        3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
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        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
        \n
        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
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    +slug: "Two-Party-System-Why"
    +title: "Two Party System. Why."
    +url: "https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/4c96ba32-e740-4fe9-9bd4-f03c00518d72.webp"
    +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
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                +body: """
                  In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
                  \n
                  In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
                  \n
                  I still think that two party system is better.
                  """
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              +body: """
                Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
                \n
                And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
                """
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            +body: """
              Multiparty system offers much better option to vote for, but then there is only one coalition. So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
              \n
              Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions” that you mention, but here, they are talking directly to voters, as opposed to each other. Again, I see advantage of two party system here.\n
              \n
              I believe that bad perception of two party system is because now, we truly have two camps in our culture - the society is broken in two, cohesiveness is lost. But it is not because of the two party system, it is the opposite: because of this cultural break it propagated, “mirrored” into our politics. But it is exactly how it supposed to work in representative democracy. It would be strange if we had this cultural problem and our politicians would not.
              """
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          +body: """
            Two party system is just a bad idea if you want to have options. It’s basically left or right and if you’re not pleased by their politics, what can you do, not vote or vote the other side even further from you?\n
            \n
            > then there is only one coalition\n
            \n
            I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions. All depends on who can make the 50%, if they’re going for a majority government.\n
            \n
            > So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
            \n
            You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party, since they have to please most of the voter base anyway and try to fish for new voters from the other side.\n
            \n
            > Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions”\n
            \n
            The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again, and reacting fairly little to that sort of stuff. It’s nowhere near the difference from voters switching to a different party altogether.
            """
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          > I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions.\n
          \n
          There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
          \n
          > You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party...\n
          \n
          I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
          \n
          > The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again\n
          \n
          Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?
          """
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        > There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
        \n
        Of course you (and other voters) contribute. The biggest party typically is one that forms the coalition and the vote share and recent performance at the poll among other things affects that.\n
        \n
        > I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
        \n
        They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
        \n
        > Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?\n
        \n
        No?? I’m saying the parties do similar sort of politics as they’ve been doing for decades. Voters swinging to the left has little effect when it’s the same Democrat party in rule. Or same for right wing. You need something dramatic for the position to actually move.
        """
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      > They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
      \n
      Yes, exactly! But the difference is WHO is making the compromise. You, as a voter, or not. Maybe I like pro-business party but would never, ever vote for party that want to push religion into high school. In US, I will just not vote republican, because I can not make this compromise. But, in other countries, I may vote for pro-business party which then enters into coalition with religious party, and I can not take my vote back. And even in the next election I would not know if pro-business party will end up in coalition with religious party.\n
      \n
      > Or same for right wing.\n
      \n
      I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.
      """
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    If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
    \n
    > I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.\n
    \n
    That’s what I had in mind too. But Democratic party is still very much the same. It takes a *lot* to change those parties, otherwise it’s same old same old.
    """
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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Show voter details
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        Community rules\n
        ---------------\n
        \n
        1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
        \n
        3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
        \n
        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
        \n
        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
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                  In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
                  \n
                  In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
                  \n
                  I still think that two party system is better.
                  """
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                Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
                \n
                And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
                """
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              Multiparty system offers much better option to vote for, but then there is only one coalition. So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
              \n
              Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions” that you mention, but here, they are talking directly to voters, as opposed to each other. Again, I see advantage of two party system here.\n
              \n
              I believe that bad perception of two party system is because now, we truly have two camps in our culture - the society is broken in two, cohesiveness is lost. But it is not because of the two party system, it is the opposite: because of this cultural break it propagated, “mirrored” into our politics. But it is exactly how it supposed to work in representative democracy. It would be strange if we had this cultural problem and our politicians would not.
              """
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            Two party system is just a bad idea if you want to have options. It’s basically left or right and if you’re not pleased by their politics, what can you do, not vote or vote the other side even further from you?\n
            \n
            > then there is only one coalition\n
            \n
            I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions. All depends on who can make the 50%, if they’re going for a majority government.\n
            \n
            > So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
            \n
            You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party, since they have to please most of the voter base anyway and try to fish for new voters from the other side.\n
            \n
            > Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions”\n
            \n
            The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again, and reacting fairly little to that sort of stuff. It’s nowhere near the difference from voters switching to a different party altogether.
            """
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          > I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions.\n
          \n
          There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
          \n
          > You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party...\n
          \n
          I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
          \n
          > The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again\n
          \n
          Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?
          """
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      +body: """
        > There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
        \n
        Of course you (and other voters) contribute. The biggest party typically is one that forms the coalition and the vote share and recent performance at the poll among other things affects that.\n
        \n
        > I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
        \n
        They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
        \n
        > Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?\n
        \n
        No?? I’m saying the parties do similar sort of politics as they’ve been doing for decades. Voters swinging to the left has little effect when it’s the same Democrat party in rule. Or same for right wing. You need something dramatic for the position to actually move.
        """
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      > They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
      \n
      Yes, exactly! But the difference is WHO is making the compromise. You, as a voter, or not. Maybe I like pro-business party but would never, ever vote for party that want to push religion into high school. In US, I will just not vote republican, because I can not make this compromise. But, in other countries, I may vote for pro-business party which then enters into coalition with religious party, and I can not take my vote back. And even in the next election I would not know if pro-business party will end up in coalition with religious party.\n
      \n
      > Or same for right wing.\n
      \n
      I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.
      """
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    If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
    \n
    > I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.\n
    \n
    That’s what I had in mind too. But Democratic party is still very much the same. It takes a *lot* to change those parties, otherwise it’s same old same old.
    """
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        Community rules\n
        ---------------\n
        \n
        1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
        \n
        3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
        \n
        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
        \n
        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
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    +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
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                  In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
                  \n
                  In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
                  \n
                  I still think that two party system is better.
                  """
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                Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
                \n
                And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
                """
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              Multiparty system offers much better option to vote for, but then there is only one coalition. So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
              \n
              Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions” that you mention, but here, they are talking directly to voters, as opposed to each other. Again, I see advantage of two party system here.\n
              \n
              I believe that bad perception of two party system is because now, we truly have two camps in our culture - the society is broken in two, cohesiveness is lost. But it is not because of the two party system, it is the opposite: because of this cultural break it propagated, “mirrored” into our politics. But it is exactly how it supposed to work in representative democracy. It would be strange if we had this cultural problem and our politicians would not.
              """
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          +body: """
            Two party system is just a bad idea if you want to have options. It’s basically left or right and if you’re not pleased by their politics, what can you do, not vote or vote the other side even further from you?\n
            \n
            > then there is only one coalition\n
            \n
            I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions. All depends on who can make the 50%, if they’re going for a majority government.\n
            \n
            > So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
            \n
            You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party, since they have to please most of the voter base anyway and try to fish for new voters from the other side.\n
            \n
            > Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions”\n
            \n
            The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again, and reacting fairly little to that sort of stuff. It’s nowhere near the difference from voters switching to a different party altogether.
            """
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          > I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions.\n
          \n
          There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
          \n
          > You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party...\n
          \n
          I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
          \n
          > The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again\n
          \n
          Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?
          """
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        > There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
        \n
        Of course you (and other voters) contribute. The biggest party typically is one that forms the coalition and the vote share and recent performance at the poll among other things affects that.\n
        \n
        > I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
        \n
        They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
        \n
        > Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?\n
        \n
        No?? I’m saying the parties do similar sort of politics as they’ve been doing for decades. Voters swinging to the left has little effect when it’s the same Democrat party in rule. Or same for right wing. You need something dramatic for the position to actually move.
        """
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      > They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
      \n
      Yes, exactly! But the difference is WHO is making the compromise. You, as a voter, or not. Maybe I like pro-business party but would never, ever vote for party that want to push religion into high school. In US, I will just not vote republican, because I can not make this compromise. But, in other countries, I may vote for pro-business party which then enters into coalition with religious party, and I can not take my vote back. And even in the next election I would not know if pro-business party will end up in coalition with religious party.\n
      \n
      > Or same for right wing.\n
      \n
      I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.
      """
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    If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
    \n
    > I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.\n
    \n
    That’s what I had in mind too. But Democratic party is still very much the same. It takes a *lot* to change those parties, otherwise it’s same old same old.
    """
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        Community rules\n
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        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
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        3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
        \n
        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
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        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
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        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
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                    In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
                    \n
                    In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
                    \n
                    I still think that two party system is better.
                    """
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                  Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
                  \n
                  And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
                  """
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                Multiparty system offers much better option to vote for, but then there is only one coalition. So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
                \n
                Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions” that you mention, but here, they are talking directly to voters, as opposed to each other. Again, I see advantage of two party system here.\n
                \n
                I believe that bad perception of two party system is because now, we truly have two camps in our culture - the society is broken in two, cohesiveness is lost. But it is not because of the two party system, it is the opposite: because of this cultural break it propagated, “mirrored” into our politics. But it is exactly how it supposed to work in representative democracy. It would be strange if we had this cultural problem and our politicians would not.
                """
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              Two party system is just a bad idea if you want to have options. It’s basically left or right and if you’re not pleased by their politics, what can you do, not vote or vote the other side even further from you?\n
              \n
              > then there is only one coalition\n
              \n
              I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions. All depends on who can make the 50%, if they’re going for a majority government.\n
              \n
              > So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
              \n
              You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party, since they have to please most of the voter base anyway and try to fish for new voters from the other side.\n
              \n
              > Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions”\n
              \n
              The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again, and reacting fairly little to that sort of stuff. It’s nowhere near the difference from voters switching to a different party altogether.
              """
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            > I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions.\n
            \n
            There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
            \n
            > You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party...\n
            \n
            I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
            \n
            > The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again\n
            \n
            Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?
            """
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          > There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
          \n
          Of course you (and other voters) contribute. The biggest party typically is one that forms the coalition and the vote share and recent performance at the poll among other things affects that.\n
          \n
          > I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
          \n
          They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
          \n
          > Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?\n
          \n
          No?? I’m saying the parties do similar sort of politics as they’ve been doing for decades. Voters swinging to the left has little effect when it’s the same Democrat party in rule. Or same for right wing. You need something dramatic for the position to actually move.
          """
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        > They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
        \n
        Yes, exactly! But the difference is WHO is making the compromise. You, as a voter, or not. Maybe I like pro-business party but would never, ever vote for party that want to push religion into high school. In US, I will just not vote republican, because I can not make this compromise. But, in other countries, I may vote for pro-business party which then enters into coalition with religious party, and I can not take my vote back. And even in the next election I would not know if pro-business party will end up in coalition with religious party.\n
        \n
        > Or same for right wing.\n
        \n
        I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.
        """
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      If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
      \n
      > I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.\n
      \n
      That’s what I had in mind too. But Democratic party is still very much the same. It takes a *lot* to change those parties, otherwise it’s same old same old.
      """
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    > If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
    \n
    They are making compromises (that you have not approved) as result of forming coalition. Democrats do not have to do those compromises - if they are in power - they are in power. The compromises were done at voting booth by you.
    """
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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147 DENIED edit 
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        Community rules\n
        ---------------\n
        \n
        1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
        \n
        3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
        \n
        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
        \n
        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
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    +slug: "Two-Party-System-Why"
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    +url: "https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/4c96ba32-e740-4fe9-9bd4-f03c00518d72.webp"
    +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
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                    In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
                    \n
                    In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
                    \n
                    I still think that two party system is better.
                    """
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                  Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
                  \n
                  And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
                  """
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                Multiparty system offers much better option to vote for, but then there is only one coalition. So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
                \n
                Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions” that you mention, but here, they are talking directly to voters, as opposed to each other. Again, I see advantage of two party system here.\n
                \n
                I believe that bad perception of two party system is because now, we truly have two camps in our culture - the society is broken in two, cohesiveness is lost. But it is not because of the two party system, it is the opposite: because of this cultural break it propagated, “mirrored” into our politics. But it is exactly how it supposed to work in representative democracy. It would be strange if we had this cultural problem and our politicians would not.
                """
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              Two party system is just a bad idea if you want to have options. It’s basically left or right and if you’re not pleased by their politics, what can you do, not vote or vote the other side even further from you?\n
              \n
              > then there is only one coalition\n
              \n
              I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions. All depends on who can make the 50%, if they’re going for a majority government.\n
              \n
              > So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
              \n
              You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party, since they have to please most of the voter base anyway and try to fish for new voters from the other side.\n
              \n
              > Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions”\n
              \n
              The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again, and reacting fairly little to that sort of stuff. It’s nowhere near the difference from voters switching to a different party altogether.
              """
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            > I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions.\n
            \n
            There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
            \n
            > You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party...\n
            \n
            I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
            \n
            > The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again\n
            \n
            Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?
            """
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          > There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
          \n
          Of course you (and other voters) contribute. The biggest party typically is one that forms the coalition and the vote share and recent performance at the poll among other things affects that.\n
          \n
          > I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
          \n
          They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
          \n
          > Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?\n
          \n
          No?? I’m saying the parties do similar sort of politics as they’ve been doing for decades. Voters swinging to the left has little effect when it’s the same Democrat party in rule. Or same for right wing. You need something dramatic for the position to actually move.
          """
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        > They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
        \n
        Yes, exactly! But the difference is WHO is making the compromise. You, as a voter, or not. Maybe I like pro-business party but would never, ever vote for party that want to push religion into high school. In US, I will just not vote republican, because I can not make this compromise. But, in other countries, I may vote for pro-business party which then enters into coalition with religious party, and I can not take my vote back. And even in the next election I would not know if pro-business party will end up in coalition with religious party.\n
        \n
        > Or same for right wing.\n
        \n
        I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.
        """
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      If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
      \n
      > I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.\n
      \n
      That’s what I had in mind too. But Democratic party is still very much the same. It takes a *lot* to change those parties, otherwise it’s same old same old.
      """
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    > If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
    \n
    They are making compromises (that you have not approved) as result of forming coalition. Democrats do not have to do those compromises - if they are in power - they are in power. The compromises were done at voting booth by you.
    """
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        Community rules\n
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        1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
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        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
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        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
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        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
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        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
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    +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
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                    In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
                    \n
                    In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
                    \n
                    I still think that two party system is better.
                    """
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                  Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
                  \n
                  And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
                  """
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                Multiparty system offers much better option to vote for, but then there is only one coalition. So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
                \n
                Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions” that you mention, but here, they are talking directly to voters, as opposed to each other. Again, I see advantage of two party system here.\n
                \n
                I believe that bad perception of two party system is because now, we truly have two camps in our culture - the society is broken in two, cohesiveness is lost. But it is not because of the two party system, it is the opposite: because of this cultural break it propagated, “mirrored” into our politics. But it is exactly how it supposed to work in representative democracy. It would be strange if we had this cultural problem and our politicians would not.
                """
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              Two party system is just a bad idea if you want to have options. It’s basically left or right and if you’re not pleased by their politics, what can you do, not vote or vote the other side even further from you?\n
              \n
              > then there is only one coalition\n
              \n
              I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions. All depends on who can make the 50%, if they’re going for a majority government.\n
              \n
              > So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
              \n
              You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party, since they have to please most of the voter base anyway and try to fish for new voters from the other side.\n
              \n
              > Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions”\n
              \n
              The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again, and reacting fairly little to that sort of stuff. It’s nowhere near the difference from voters switching to a different party altogether.
              """
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            > I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions.\n
            \n
            There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
            \n
            > You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party...\n
            \n
            I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
            \n
            > The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again\n
            \n
            Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?
            """
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          > There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
          \n
          Of course you (and other voters) contribute. The biggest party typically is one that forms the coalition and the vote share and recent performance at the poll among other things affects that.\n
          \n
          > I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
          \n
          They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
          \n
          > Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?\n
          \n
          No?? I’m saying the parties do similar sort of politics as they’ve been doing for decades. Voters swinging to the left has little effect when it’s the same Democrat party in rule. Or same for right wing. You need something dramatic for the position to actually move.
          """
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        > They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
        \n
        Yes, exactly! But the difference is WHO is making the compromise. You, as a voter, or not. Maybe I like pro-business party but would never, ever vote for party that want to push religion into high school. In US, I will just not vote republican, because I can not make this compromise. But, in other countries, I may vote for pro-business party which then enters into coalition with religious party, and I can not take my vote back. And even in the next election I would not know if pro-business party will end up in coalition with religious party.\n
        \n
        > Or same for right wing.\n
        \n
        I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.
        """
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      If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
      \n
      > I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.\n
      \n
      That’s what I had in mind too. But Democratic party is still very much the same. It takes a *lot* to change those parties, otherwise it’s same old same old.
      """
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    > If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
    \n
    They are making compromises (that you have not approved) as result of forming coalition. Democrats do not have to do those compromises - if they are in power - they are in power. The compromises were done at voting booth by you.
    """
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        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
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        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
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        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
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                      In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
                      \n
                      In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
                      \n
                      I still think that two party system is better.
                      """
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                    Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
                    \n
                    And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
                    """
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                  Multiparty system offers much better option to vote for, but then there is only one coalition. So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
                  \n
                  Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions” that you mention, but here, they are talking directly to voters, as opposed to each other. Again, I see advantage of two party system here.\n
                  \n
                  I believe that bad perception of two party system is because now, we truly have two camps in our culture - the society is broken in two, cohesiveness is lost. But it is not because of the two party system, it is the opposite: because of this cultural break it propagated, “mirrored” into our politics. But it is exactly how it supposed to work in representative democracy. It would be strange if we had this cultural problem and our politicians would not.
                  """
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                Two party system is just a bad idea if you want to have options. It’s basically left or right and if you’re not pleased by their politics, what can you do, not vote or vote the other side even further from you?\n
                \n
                > then there is only one coalition\n
                \n
                I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions. All depends on who can make the 50%, if they’re going for a majority government.\n
                \n
                > So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
                \n
                You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party, since they have to please most of the voter base anyway and try to fish for new voters from the other side.\n
                \n
                > Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions”\n
                \n
                The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again, and reacting fairly little to that sort of stuff. It’s nowhere near the difference from voters switching to a different party altogether.
                """
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              > I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions.\n
              \n
              There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
              \n
              > You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party...\n
              \n
              I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
              \n
              > The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again\n
              \n
              Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?
              """
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            > There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
            \n
            Of course you (and other voters) contribute. The biggest party typically is one that forms the coalition and the vote share and recent performance at the poll among other things affects that.\n
            \n
            > I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
            \n
            They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
            \n
            > Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?\n
            \n
            No?? I’m saying the parties do similar sort of politics as they’ve been doing for decades. Voters swinging to the left has little effect when it’s the same Democrat party in rule. Or same for right wing. You need something dramatic for the position to actually move.
            """
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          > They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
          \n
          Yes, exactly! But the difference is WHO is making the compromise. You, as a voter, or not. Maybe I like pro-business party but would never, ever vote for party that want to push religion into high school. In US, I will just not vote republican, because I can not make this compromise. But, in other countries, I may vote for pro-business party which then enters into coalition with religious party, and I can not take my vote back. And even in the next election I would not know if pro-business party will end up in coalition with religious party.\n
          \n
          > Or same for right wing.\n
          \n
          I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.
          """
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        If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
        \n
        > I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.\n
        \n
        That’s what I had in mind too. But Democratic party is still very much the same. It takes a *lot* to change those parties, otherwise it’s same old same old.
        """
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      > If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
      \n
      They are making compromises (that you have not approved) as result of forming coalition. Democrats do not have to do those compromises - if they are in power - they are in power. The compromises were done at voting booth by you.
      """
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    Yes they do have to do compromises, they do them all the time. Compromises on who to cater to and who to piss off, what to do if they don’t have senate, house, presidency… You don’t get to decide those compromises. They might not even know they’ll have to make them or it would just look bad so they don’t mention them.\n
    \n
    Btw you can have a party holding +50% of the seats in multi-party democracy too. Could have “best of both”, if you are worried about parties having to fit into a coalition.
    """
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        Community rules\n
        ---------------\n
        \n
        1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
        \n
        3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
        \n
        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
        \n
        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
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    +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
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                      In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
                      \n
                      In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
                      \n
                      I still think that two party system is better.
                      """
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                    Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
                    \n
                    And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
                    """
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                  Multiparty system offers much better option to vote for, but then there is only one coalition. So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
                  \n
                  Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions” that you mention, but here, they are talking directly to voters, as opposed to each other. Again, I see advantage of two party system here.\n
                  \n
                  I believe that bad perception of two party system is because now, we truly have two camps in our culture - the society is broken in two, cohesiveness is lost. But it is not because of the two party system, it is the opposite: because of this cultural break it propagated, “mirrored” into our politics. But it is exactly how it supposed to work in representative democracy. It would be strange if we had this cultural problem and our politicians would not.
                  """
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                Two party system is just a bad idea if you want to have options. It’s basically left or right and if you’re not pleased by their politics, what can you do, not vote or vote the other side even further from you?\n
                \n
                > then there is only one coalition\n
                \n
                I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions. All depends on who can make the 50%, if they’re going for a majority government.\n
                \n
                > So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
                \n
                You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party, since they have to please most of the voter base anyway and try to fish for new voters from the other side.\n
                \n
                > Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions”\n
                \n
                The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again, and reacting fairly little to that sort of stuff. It’s nowhere near the difference from voters switching to a different party altogether.
                """
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              > I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions.\n
              \n
              There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
              \n
              > You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party...\n
              \n
              I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
              \n
              > The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again\n
              \n
              Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?
              """
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          +body: """
            > There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
            \n
            Of course you (and other voters) contribute. The biggest party typically is one that forms the coalition and the vote share and recent performance at the poll among other things affects that.\n
            \n
            > I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
            \n
            They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
            \n
            > Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?\n
            \n
            No?? I’m saying the parties do similar sort of politics as they’ve been doing for decades. Voters swinging to the left has little effect when it’s the same Democrat party in rule. Or same for right wing. You need something dramatic for the position to actually move.
            """
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        +body: """
          > They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
          \n
          Yes, exactly! But the difference is WHO is making the compromise. You, as a voter, or not. Maybe I like pro-business party but would never, ever vote for party that want to push religion into high school. In US, I will just not vote republican, because I can not make this compromise. But, in other countries, I may vote for pro-business party which then enters into coalition with religious party, and I can not take my vote back. And even in the next election I would not know if pro-business party will end up in coalition with religious party.\n
          \n
          > Or same for right wing.\n
          \n
          I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.
          """
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        If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
        \n
        > I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.\n
        \n
        That’s what I had in mind too. But Democratic party is still very much the same. It takes a *lot* to change those parties, otherwise it’s same old same old.
        """
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      > If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
      \n
      They are making compromises (that you have not approved) as result of forming coalition. Democrats do not have to do those compromises - if they are in power - they are in power. The compromises were done at voting booth by you.
      """
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    Yes they do have to do compromises, they do them all the time. Compromises on who to cater to and who to piss off, what to do if they don’t have senate, house, presidency… You don’t get to decide those compromises. They might not even know they’ll have to make them or it would just look bad so they don’t mention them.\n
    \n
    Btw you can have a party holding +50% of the seats in multi-party democracy too. Could have “best of both”, if you are worried about parties having to fit into a coalition.
    """
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        Community rules\n
        ---------------\n
        \n
        1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
        \n
        3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
        \n
        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
        \n
        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
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                      In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
                      \n
                      In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
                      \n
                      I still think that two party system is better.
                      """
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                    Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
                    \n
                    And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
                    """
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                  Multiparty system offers much better option to vote for, but then there is only one coalition. So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
                  \n
                  Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions” that you mention, but here, they are talking directly to voters, as opposed to each other. Again, I see advantage of two party system here.\n
                  \n
                  I believe that bad perception of two party system is because now, we truly have two camps in our culture - the society is broken in two, cohesiveness is lost. But it is not because of the two party system, it is the opposite: because of this cultural break it propagated, “mirrored” into our politics. But it is exactly how it supposed to work in representative democracy. It would be strange if we had this cultural problem and our politicians would not.
                  """
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                Two party system is just a bad idea if you want to have options. It’s basically left or right and if you’re not pleased by their politics, what can you do, not vote or vote the other side even further from you?\n
                \n
                > then there is only one coalition\n
                \n
                I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions. All depends on who can make the 50%, if they’re going for a majority government.\n
                \n
                > So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
                \n
                You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party, since they have to please most of the voter base anyway and try to fish for new voters from the other side.\n
                \n
                > Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions”\n
                \n
                The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again, and reacting fairly little to that sort of stuff. It’s nowhere near the difference from voters switching to a different party altogether.
                """
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              > I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions.\n
              \n
              There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
              \n
              > You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party...\n
              \n
              I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
              \n
              > The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again\n
              \n
              Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?
              """
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          +body: """
            > There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
            \n
            Of course you (and other voters) contribute. The biggest party typically is one that forms the coalition and the vote share and recent performance at the poll among other things affects that.\n
            \n
            > I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
            \n
            They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
            \n
            > Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?\n
            \n
            No?? I’m saying the parties do similar sort of politics as they’ve been doing for decades. Voters swinging to the left has little effect when it’s the same Democrat party in rule. Or same for right wing. You need something dramatic for the position to actually move.
            """
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          > They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
          \n
          Yes, exactly! But the difference is WHO is making the compromise. You, as a voter, or not. Maybe I like pro-business party but would never, ever vote for party that want to push religion into high school. In US, I will just not vote republican, because I can not make this compromise. But, in other countries, I may vote for pro-business party which then enters into coalition with religious party, and I can not take my vote back. And even in the next election I would not know if pro-business party will end up in coalition with religious party.\n
          \n
          > Or same for right wing.\n
          \n
          I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.
          """
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        If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
        \n
        > I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.\n
        \n
        That’s what I had in mind too. But Democratic party is still very much the same. It takes a *lot* to change those parties, otherwise it’s same old same old.
        """
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      > If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
      \n
      They are making compromises (that you have not approved) as result of forming coalition. Democrats do not have to do those compromises - if they are in power - they are in power. The compromises were done at voting booth by you.
      """
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    Yes they do have to do compromises, they do them all the time. Compromises on who to cater to and who to piss off, what to do if they don’t have senate, house, presidency… You don’t get to decide those compromises. They might not even know they’ll have to make them or it would just look bad so they don’t mention them.\n
    \n
    Btw you can have a party holding +50% of the seats in multi-party democracy too. Could have “best of both”, if you are worried about parties having to fit into a coalition.
    """
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        Community rules\n
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        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
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    +url: "https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/4c96ba32-e740-4fe9-9bd4-f03c00518d72.webp"
    +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
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                        In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
                        \n
                        In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
                        \n
                        I still think that two party system is better.
                        """
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                      Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
                      \n
                      And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
                      """
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                    Multiparty system offers much better option to vote for, but then there is only one coalition. So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
                    \n
                    Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions” that you mention, but here, they are talking directly to voters, as opposed to each other. Again, I see advantage of two party system here.\n
                    \n
                    I believe that bad perception of two party system is because now, we truly have two camps in our culture - the society is broken in two, cohesiveness is lost. But it is not because of the two party system, it is the opposite: because of this cultural break it propagated, “mirrored” into our politics. But it is exactly how it supposed to work in representative democracy. It would be strange if we had this cultural problem and our politicians would not.
                    """
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                +body: """
                  Two party system is just a bad idea if you want to have options. It’s basically left or right and if you’re not pleased by their politics, what can you do, not vote or vote the other side even further from you?\n
                  \n
                  > then there is only one coalition\n
                  \n
                  I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions. All depends on who can make the 50%, if they’re going for a majority government.\n
                  \n
                  > So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
                  \n
                  You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party, since they have to please most of the voter base anyway and try to fish for new voters from the other side.\n
                  \n
                  > Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions”\n
                  \n
                  The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again, and reacting fairly little to that sort of stuff. It’s nowhere near the difference from voters switching to a different party altogether.
                  """
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                > I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions.\n
                \n
                There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
                \n
                > You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party...\n
                \n
                I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
                \n
                > The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again\n
                \n
                Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?
                """
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            +body: """
              > There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
              \n
              Of course you (and other voters) contribute. The biggest party typically is one that forms the coalition and the vote share and recent performance at the poll among other things affects that.\n
              \n
              > I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
              \n
              They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
              \n
              > Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?\n
              \n
              No?? I’m saying the parties do similar sort of politics as they’ve been doing for decades. Voters swinging to the left has little effect when it’s the same Democrat party in rule. Or same for right wing. You need something dramatic for the position to actually move.
              """
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          +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#4948}
          +body: """
            > They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
            \n
            Yes, exactly! But the difference is WHO is making the compromise. You, as a voter, or not. Maybe I like pro-business party but would never, ever vote for party that want to push religion into high school. In US, I will just not vote republican, because I can not make this compromise. But, in other countries, I may vote for pro-business party which then enters into coalition with religious party, and I can not take my vote back. And even in the next election I would not know if pro-business party will end up in coalition with religious party.\n
            \n
            > Or same for right wing.\n
            \n
            I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.
            """
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        +body: """
          If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
          \n
          > I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.\n
          \n
          That’s what I had in mind too. But Democratic party is still very much the same. It takes a *lot* to change those parties, otherwise it’s same old same old.
          """
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        > If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
        \n
        They are making compromises (that you have not approved) as result of forming coalition. Democrats do not have to do those compromises - if they are in power - they are in power. The compromises were done at voting booth by you.
        """
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      Yes they do have to do compromises, they do them all the time. Compromises on who to cater to and who to piss off, what to do if they don’t have senate, house, presidency… You don’t get to decide those compromises. They might not even know they’ll have to make them or it would just look bad so they don’t mention them.\n
      \n
      Btw you can have a party holding +50% of the seats in multi-party democracy too. Could have “best of both”, if you are worried about parties having to fit into a coalition.
      """
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    > Yes they do have to do compromises, they do them all the time. Compromises on who to cater to and who to piss off...\n
    \n
    I am not saying they do not do any compromises. I am saying they do not have to do EXTRA compromises to form coalition. And those compromises could be particularly great.\n
    \n
    > Btw you can have a party holding +50% of the seats in multi-party democracy too.\n
    \n
    That, by itself, is not a good thing, since that would essentially mean that there is no strong opposition. I am of opinion that strong opposition is always needed. It keeps party in power "more honest". This is again advantage of the two party system, as I mentioned before.
    """
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155 DENIED edit 
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        Community rules\n
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        \n
        1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
        \n
        3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
        \n
        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
        \n
        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
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    +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
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                      +body: """
                        In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
                        \n
                        In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
                        \n
                        I still think that two party system is better.
                        """
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                      Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
                      \n
                      And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
                      """
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                    Multiparty system offers much better option to vote for, but then there is only one coalition. So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
                    \n
                    Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions” that you mention, but here, they are talking directly to voters, as opposed to each other. Again, I see advantage of two party system here.\n
                    \n
                    I believe that bad perception of two party system is because now, we truly have two camps in our culture - the society is broken in two, cohesiveness is lost. But it is not because of the two party system, it is the opposite: because of this cultural break it propagated, “mirrored” into our politics. But it is exactly how it supposed to work in representative democracy. It would be strange if we had this cultural problem and our politicians would not.
                    """
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                  Two party system is just a bad idea if you want to have options. It’s basically left or right and if you’re not pleased by their politics, what can you do, not vote or vote the other side even further from you?\n
                  \n
                  > then there is only one coalition\n
                  \n
                  I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions. All depends on who can make the 50%, if they’re going for a majority government.\n
                  \n
                  > So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
                  \n
                  You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party, since they have to please most of the voter base anyway and try to fish for new voters from the other side.\n
                  \n
                  > Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions”\n
                  \n
                  The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again, and reacting fairly little to that sort of stuff. It’s nowhere near the difference from voters switching to a different party altogether.
                  """
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                > I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions.\n
                \n
                There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
                \n
                > You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party...\n
                \n
                I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
                \n
                > The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again\n
                \n
                Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?
                """
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              > There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
              \n
              Of course you (and other voters) contribute. The biggest party typically is one that forms the coalition and the vote share and recent performance at the poll among other things affects that.\n
              \n
              > I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
              \n
              They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
              \n
              > Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?\n
              \n
              No?? I’m saying the parties do similar sort of politics as they’ve been doing for decades. Voters swinging to the left has little effect when it’s the same Democrat party in rule. Or same for right wing. You need something dramatic for the position to actually move.
              """
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            > They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
            \n
            Yes, exactly! But the difference is WHO is making the compromise. You, as a voter, or not. Maybe I like pro-business party but would never, ever vote for party that want to push religion into high school. In US, I will just not vote republican, because I can not make this compromise. But, in other countries, I may vote for pro-business party which then enters into coalition with religious party, and I can not take my vote back. And even in the next election I would not know if pro-business party will end up in coalition with religious party.\n
            \n
            > Or same for right wing.\n
            \n
            I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.
            """
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          If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
          \n
          > I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.\n
          \n
          That’s what I had in mind too. But Democratic party is still very much the same. It takes a *lot* to change those parties, otherwise it’s same old same old.
          """
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        > If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
        \n
        They are making compromises (that you have not approved) as result of forming coalition. Democrats do not have to do those compromises - if they are in power - they are in power. The compromises were done at voting booth by you.
        """
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      Yes they do have to do compromises, they do them all the time. Compromises on who to cater to and who to piss off, what to do if they don’t have senate, house, presidency… You don’t get to decide those compromises. They might not even know they’ll have to make them or it would just look bad so they don’t mention them.\n
      \n
      Btw you can have a party holding +50% of the seats in multi-party democracy too. Could have “best of both”, if you are worried about parties having to fit into a coalition.
      """
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    > Yes they do have to do compromises, they do them all the time. Compromises on who to cater to and who to piss off...\n
    \n
    I am not saying they do not do any compromises. I am saying they do not have to do EXTRA compromises to form coalition. And those compromises could be particularly great.\n
    \n
    > Btw you can have a party holding +50% of the seats in multi-party democracy too.\n
    \n
    That, by itself, is not a good thing, since that would essentially mean that there is no strong opposition. I am of opinion that strong opposition is always needed. It keeps party in power "more honest". This is again advantage of the two party system, as I mentioned before.
    """
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        Community rules\n
        ---------------\n
        \n
        1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
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        3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
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        \n
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        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
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    +slug: "Two-Party-System-Why"
    +title: "Two Party System. Why."
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    +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
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                        In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
                        \n
                        In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
                        \n
                        I still think that two party system is better.
                        """
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                      Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
                      \n
                      And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
                      """
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                    Multiparty system offers much better option to vote for, but then there is only one coalition. So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
                    \n
                    Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions” that you mention, but here, they are talking directly to voters, as opposed to each other. Again, I see advantage of two party system here.\n
                    \n
                    I believe that bad perception of two party system is because now, we truly have two camps in our culture - the society is broken in two, cohesiveness is lost. But it is not because of the two party system, it is the opposite: because of this cultural break it propagated, “mirrored” into our politics. But it is exactly how it supposed to work in representative democracy. It would be strange if we had this cultural problem and our politicians would not.
                    """
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                  Two party system is just a bad idea if you want to have options. It’s basically left or right and if you’re not pleased by their politics, what can you do, not vote or vote the other side even further from you?\n
                  \n
                  > then there is only one coalition\n
                  \n
                  I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions. All depends on who can make the 50%, if they’re going for a majority government.\n
                  \n
                  > So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
                  \n
                  You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party, since they have to please most of the voter base anyway and try to fish for new voters from the other side.\n
                  \n
                  > Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions”\n
                  \n
                  The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again, and reacting fairly little to that sort of stuff. It’s nowhere near the difference from voters switching to a different party altogether.
                  """
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                > I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions.\n
                \n
                There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
                \n
                > You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party...\n
                \n
                I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
                \n
                > The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again\n
                \n
                Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?
                """
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              > There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
              \n
              Of course you (and other voters) contribute. The biggest party typically is one that forms the coalition and the vote share and recent performance at the poll among other things affects that.\n
              \n
              > I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
              \n
              They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
              \n
              > Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?\n
              \n
              No?? I’m saying the parties do similar sort of politics as they’ve been doing for decades. Voters swinging to the left has little effect when it’s the same Democrat party in rule. Or same for right wing. You need something dramatic for the position to actually move.
              """
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          +body: """
            > They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
            \n
            Yes, exactly! But the difference is WHO is making the compromise. You, as a voter, or not. Maybe I like pro-business party but would never, ever vote for party that want to push religion into high school. In US, I will just not vote republican, because I can not make this compromise. But, in other countries, I may vote for pro-business party which then enters into coalition with religious party, and I can not take my vote back. And even in the next election I would not know if pro-business party will end up in coalition with religious party.\n
            \n
            > Or same for right wing.\n
            \n
            I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.
            """
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          If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
          \n
          > I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.\n
          \n
          That’s what I had in mind too. But Democratic party is still very much the same. It takes a *lot* to change those parties, otherwise it’s same old same old.
          """
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        > If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
        \n
        They are making compromises (that you have not approved) as result of forming coalition. Democrats do not have to do those compromises - if they are in power - they are in power. The compromises were done at voting booth by you.
        """
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      Yes they do have to do compromises, they do them all the time. Compromises on who to cater to and who to piss off, what to do if they don’t have senate, house, presidency… You don’t get to decide those compromises. They might not even know they’ll have to make them or it would just look bad so they don’t mention them.\n
      \n
      Btw you can have a party holding +50% of the seats in multi-party democracy too. Could have “best of both”, if you are worried about parties having to fit into a coalition.
      """
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    > Yes they do have to do compromises, they do them all the time. Compromises on who to cater to and who to piss off...\n
    \n
    I am not saying they do not do any compromises. I am saying they do not have to do EXTRA compromises to form coalition. And those compromises could be particularly great.\n
    \n
    > Btw you can have a party holding +50% of the seats in multi-party democracy too.\n
    \n
    That, by itself, is not a good thing, since that would essentially mean that there is no strong opposition. I am of opinion that strong opposition is always needed. It keeps party in power "more honest". This is again advantage of the two party system, as I mentioned before.
    """
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        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
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                        +body: """
                          In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
                          \n
                          In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
                          \n
                          I still think that two party system is better.
                          """
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                        Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
                        \n
                        And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
                        """
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                      Multiparty system offers much better option to vote for, but then there is only one coalition. So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
                      \n
                      Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions” that you mention, but here, they are talking directly to voters, as opposed to each other. Again, I see advantage of two party system here.\n
                      \n
                      I believe that bad perception of two party system is because now, we truly have two camps in our culture - the society is broken in two, cohesiveness is lost. But it is not because of the two party system, it is the opposite: because of this cultural break it propagated, “mirrored” into our politics. But it is exactly how it supposed to work in representative democracy. It would be strange if we had this cultural problem and our politicians would not.
                      """
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                    Two party system is just a bad idea if you want to have options. It’s basically left or right and if you’re not pleased by their politics, what can you do, not vote or vote the other side even further from you?\n
                    \n
                    > then there is only one coalition\n
                    \n
                    I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions. All depends on who can make the 50%, if they’re going for a majority government.\n
                    \n
                    > So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
                    \n
                    You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party, since they have to please most of the voter base anyway and try to fish for new voters from the other side.\n
                    \n
                    > Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions”\n
                    \n
                    The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again, and reacting fairly little to that sort of stuff. It’s nowhere near the difference from voters switching to a different party altogether.
                    """
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                  > I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions.\n
                  \n
                  There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
                  \n
                  > You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party...\n
                  \n
                  I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
                  \n
                  > The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again\n
                  \n
                  Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?
                  """
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                > There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
                \n
                Of course you (and other voters) contribute. The biggest party typically is one that forms the coalition and the vote share and recent performance at the poll among other things affects that.\n
                \n
                > I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
                \n
                They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
                \n
                > Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?\n
                \n
                No?? I’m saying the parties do similar sort of politics as they’ve been doing for decades. Voters swinging to the left has little effect when it’s the same Democrat party in rule. Or same for right wing. You need something dramatic for the position to actually move.
                """
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              > They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
              \n
              Yes, exactly! But the difference is WHO is making the compromise. You, as a voter, or not. Maybe I like pro-business party but would never, ever vote for party that want to push religion into high school. In US, I will just not vote republican, because I can not make this compromise. But, in other countries, I may vote for pro-business party which then enters into coalition with religious party, and I can not take my vote back. And even in the next election I would not know if pro-business party will end up in coalition with religious party.\n
              \n
              > Or same for right wing.\n
              \n
              I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.
              """
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            If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
            \n
            > I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.\n
            \n
            That’s what I had in mind too. But Democratic party is still very much the same. It takes a *lot* to change those parties, otherwise it’s same old same old.
            """
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          > If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
          \n
          They are making compromises (that you have not approved) as result of forming coalition. Democrats do not have to do those compromises - if they are in power - they are in power. The compromises were done at voting booth by you.
          """
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        Yes they do have to do compromises, they do them all the time. Compromises on who to cater to and who to piss off, what to do if they don’t have senate, house, presidency… You don’t get to decide those compromises. They might not even know they’ll have to make them or it would just look bad so they don’t mention them.\n
        \n
        Btw you can have a party holding +50% of the seats in multi-party democracy too. Could have “best of both”, if you are worried about parties having to fit into a coalition.
        """
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      > Yes they do have to do compromises, they do them all the time. Compromises on who to cater to and who to piss off...\n
      \n
      I am not saying they do not do any compromises. I am saying they do not have to do EXTRA compromises to form coalition. And those compromises could be particularly great.\n
      \n
      > Btw you can have a party holding +50% of the seats in multi-party democracy too.\n
      \n
      That, by itself, is not a good thing, since that would essentially mean that there is no strong opposition. I am of opinion that strong opposition is always needed. It keeps party in power "more honest". This is again advantage of the two party system, as I mentioned before.
      """
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    They’ve already made more compromises than a smaller party typically would have to since they’re trying to cater to so many people. Of course they still have to do compromises like the mentioned senate, house, presidential thing that we don’t really have, but that’s more not really a two/multi party thing.\n
    \n
    > That, by itself, is not a good thing, since that would essentially mean that there is no strong opposition. I am of opinion that strong opposition is always needed. It keeps party in power “more honest”. This is again advantage of the two party system, as I mentioned before.\n
    \n
    It’s a strange idea that +50% seats in two party system good but bad in multi-party system. It doesn’t mean there’s no strong opposition when there’s more than one opposition party…\n
    \n
    Also two party system is no guarantee for a strong opposition. You can easily have a situation where one clearly dominates. Strong opposition is not a guarantee or unique to two party system at all.
    """
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159 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5577
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        Community rules\n
        ---------------\n
        \n
        1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
        \n
        3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
        \n
        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
        \n
        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
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    +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
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                        +body: """
                          In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
                          \n
                          In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
                          \n
                          I still think that two party system is better.
                          """
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                        Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
                        \n
                        And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
                        """
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                    +body: """
                      Multiparty system offers much better option to vote for, but then there is only one coalition. So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
                      \n
                      Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions” that you mention, but here, they are talking directly to voters, as opposed to each other. Again, I see advantage of two party system here.\n
                      \n
                      I believe that bad perception of two party system is because now, we truly have two camps in our culture - the society is broken in two, cohesiveness is lost. But it is not because of the two party system, it is the opposite: because of this cultural break it propagated, “mirrored” into our politics. But it is exactly how it supposed to work in representative democracy. It would be strange if we had this cultural problem and our politicians would not.
                      """
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                    Two party system is just a bad idea if you want to have options. It’s basically left or right and if you’re not pleased by their politics, what can you do, not vote or vote the other side even further from you?\n
                    \n
                    > then there is only one coalition\n
                    \n
                    I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions. All depends on who can make the 50%, if they’re going for a majority government.\n
                    \n
                    > So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
                    \n
                    You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party, since they have to please most of the voter base anyway and try to fish for new voters from the other side.\n
                    \n
                    > Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions”\n
                    \n
                    The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again, and reacting fairly little to that sort of stuff. It’s nowhere near the difference from voters switching to a different party altogether.
                    """
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                  > I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions.\n
                  \n
                  There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
                  \n
                  > You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party...\n
                  \n
                  I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
                  \n
                  > The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again\n
                  \n
                  Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?
                  """
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                > There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
                \n
                Of course you (and other voters) contribute. The biggest party typically is one that forms the coalition and the vote share and recent performance at the poll among other things affects that.\n
                \n
                > I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
                \n
                They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
                \n
                > Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?\n
                \n
                No?? I’m saying the parties do similar sort of politics as they’ve been doing for decades. Voters swinging to the left has little effect when it’s the same Democrat party in rule. Or same for right wing. You need something dramatic for the position to actually move.
                """
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              > They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
              \n
              Yes, exactly! But the difference is WHO is making the compromise. You, as a voter, or not. Maybe I like pro-business party but would never, ever vote for party that want to push religion into high school. In US, I will just not vote republican, because I can not make this compromise. But, in other countries, I may vote for pro-business party which then enters into coalition with religious party, and I can not take my vote back. And even in the next election I would not know if pro-business party will end up in coalition with religious party.\n
              \n
              > Or same for right wing.\n
              \n
              I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.
              """
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            If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
            \n
            > I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.\n
            \n
            That’s what I had in mind too. But Democratic party is still very much the same. It takes a *lot* to change those parties, otherwise it’s same old same old.
            """
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          > If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
          \n
          They are making compromises (that you have not approved) as result of forming coalition. Democrats do not have to do those compromises - if they are in power - they are in power. The compromises were done at voting booth by you.
          """
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        Yes they do have to do compromises, they do them all the time. Compromises on who to cater to and who to piss off, what to do if they don’t have senate, house, presidency… You don’t get to decide those compromises. They might not even know they’ll have to make them or it would just look bad so they don’t mention them.\n
        \n
        Btw you can have a party holding +50% of the seats in multi-party democracy too. Could have “best of both”, if you are worried about parties having to fit into a coalition.
        """
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      > Yes they do have to do compromises, they do them all the time. Compromises on who to cater to and who to piss off...\n
      \n
      I am not saying they do not do any compromises. I am saying they do not have to do EXTRA compromises to form coalition. And those compromises could be particularly great.\n
      \n
      > Btw you can have a party holding +50% of the seats in multi-party democracy too.\n
      \n
      That, by itself, is not a good thing, since that would essentially mean that there is no strong opposition. I am of opinion that strong opposition is always needed. It keeps party in power "more honest". This is again advantage of the two party system, as I mentioned before.
      """
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    They’ve already made more compromises than a smaller party typically would have to since they’re trying to cater to so many people. Of course they still have to do compromises like the mentioned senate, house, presidential thing that we don’t really have, but that’s more not really a two/multi party thing.\n
    \n
    > That, by itself, is not a good thing, since that would essentially mean that there is no strong opposition. I am of opinion that strong opposition is always needed. It keeps party in power “more honest”. This is again advantage of the two party system, as I mentioned before.\n
    \n
    It’s a strange idea that +50% seats in two party system good but bad in multi-party system. It doesn’t mean there’s no strong opposition when there’s more than one opposition party…\n
    \n
    Also two party system is no guarantee for a strong opposition. You can easily have a situation where one clearly dominates. Strong opposition is not a guarantee or unique to two party system at all.
    """
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
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"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
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160 DENIED moderate 
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        Community rules\n
        ---------------\n
        \n
        1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
        \n
        3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
        \n
        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
        \n
        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
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    +slug: "Two-Party-System-Why"
    +title: "Two Party System. Why."
    +url: "https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/4c96ba32-e740-4fe9-9bd4-f03c00518d72.webp"
    +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
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                        +body: """
                          In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
                          \n
                          In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
                          \n
                          I still think that two party system is better.
                          """
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                        Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
                        \n
                        And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
                        """
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                    +body: """
                      Multiparty system offers much better option to vote for, but then there is only one coalition. So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
                      \n
                      Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions” that you mention, but here, they are talking directly to voters, as opposed to each other. Again, I see advantage of two party system here.\n
                      \n
                      I believe that bad perception of two party system is because now, we truly have two camps in our culture - the society is broken in two, cohesiveness is lost. But it is not because of the two party system, it is the opposite: because of this cultural break it propagated, “mirrored” into our politics. But it is exactly how it supposed to work in representative democracy. It would be strange if we had this cultural problem and our politicians would not.
                      """
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                    Two party system is just a bad idea if you want to have options. It’s basically left or right and if you’re not pleased by their politics, what can you do, not vote or vote the other side even further from you?\n
                    \n
                    > then there is only one coalition\n
                    \n
                    I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions. All depends on who can make the 50%, if they’re going for a majority government.\n
                    \n
                    > So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
                    \n
                    You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party, since they have to please most of the voter base anyway and try to fish for new voters from the other side.\n
                    \n
                    > Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions”\n
                    \n
                    The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again, and reacting fairly little to that sort of stuff. It’s nowhere near the difference from voters switching to a different party altogether.
                    """
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                  > I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions.\n
                  \n
                  There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
                  \n
                  > You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party...\n
                  \n
                  I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
                  \n
                  > The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again\n
                  \n
                  Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?
                  """
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                > There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
                \n
                Of course you (and other voters) contribute. The biggest party typically is one that forms the coalition and the vote share and recent performance at the poll among other things affects that.\n
                \n
                > I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
                \n
                They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
                \n
                > Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?\n
                \n
                No?? I’m saying the parties do similar sort of politics as they’ve been doing for decades. Voters swinging to the left has little effect when it’s the same Democrat party in rule. Or same for right wing. You need something dramatic for the position to actually move.
                """
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              > They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
              \n
              Yes, exactly! But the difference is WHO is making the compromise. You, as a voter, or not. Maybe I like pro-business party but would never, ever vote for party that want to push religion into high school. In US, I will just not vote republican, because I can not make this compromise. But, in other countries, I may vote for pro-business party which then enters into coalition with religious party, and I can not take my vote back. And even in the next election I would not know if pro-business party will end up in coalition with religious party.\n
              \n
              > Or same for right wing.\n
              \n
              I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.
              """
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            If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
            \n
            > I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.\n
            \n
            That’s what I had in mind too. But Democratic party is still very much the same. It takes a *lot* to change those parties, otherwise it’s same old same old.
            """
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          > If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
          \n
          They are making compromises (that you have not approved) as result of forming coalition. Democrats do not have to do those compromises - if they are in power - they are in power. The compromises were done at voting booth by you.
          """
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        Yes they do have to do compromises, they do them all the time. Compromises on who to cater to and who to piss off, what to do if they don’t have senate, house, presidency… You don’t get to decide those compromises. They might not even know they’ll have to make them or it would just look bad so they don’t mention them.\n
        \n
        Btw you can have a party holding +50% of the seats in multi-party democracy too. Could have “best of both”, if you are worried about parties having to fit into a coalition.
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      > Yes they do have to do compromises, they do them all the time. Compromises on who to cater to and who to piss off...\n
      \n
      I am not saying they do not do any compromises. I am saying they do not have to do EXTRA compromises to form coalition. And those compromises could be particularly great.\n
      \n
      > Btw you can have a party holding +50% of the seats in multi-party democracy too.\n
      \n
      That, by itself, is not a good thing, since that would essentially mean that there is no strong opposition. I am of opinion that strong opposition is always needed. It keeps party in power "more honest". This is again advantage of the two party system, as I mentioned before.
      """
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    They’ve already made more compromises than a smaller party typically would have to since they’re trying to cater to so many people. Of course they still have to do compromises like the mentioned senate, house, presidential thing that we don’t really have, but that’s more not really a two/multi party thing.\n
    \n
    > That, by itself, is not a good thing, since that would essentially mean that there is no strong opposition. I am of opinion that strong opposition is always needed. It keeps party in power “more honest”. This is again advantage of the two party system, as I mentioned before.\n
    \n
    It’s a strange idea that +50% seats in two party system good but bad in multi-party system. It doesn’t mean there’s no strong opposition when there’s more than one opposition party…\n
    \n
    Also two party system is no guarantee for a strong opposition. You can easily have a situation where one clearly dominates. Strong opposition is not a guarantee or unique to two party system at all.
    """
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        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
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        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
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                          +body: """
                            In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
                            \n
                            In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
                            \n
                            I still think that two party system is better.
                            """
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                          Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
                          \n
                          And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
                          """
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                        Multiparty system offers much better option to vote for, but then there is only one coalition. So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
                        \n
                        Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions” that you mention, but here, they are talking directly to voters, as opposed to each other. Again, I see advantage of two party system here.\n
                        \n
                        I believe that bad perception of two party system is because now, we truly have two camps in our culture - the society is broken in two, cohesiveness is lost. But it is not because of the two party system, it is the opposite: because of this cultural break it propagated, “mirrored” into our politics. But it is exactly how it supposed to work in representative democracy. It would be strange if we had this cultural problem and our politicians would not.
                        """
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                      Two party system is just a bad idea if you want to have options. It’s basically left or right and if you’re not pleased by their politics, what can you do, not vote or vote the other side even further from you?\n
                      \n
                      > then there is only one coalition\n
                      \n
                      I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions. All depends on who can make the 50%, if they’re going for a majority government.\n
                      \n
                      > So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
                      \n
                      You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party, since they have to please most of the voter base anyway and try to fish for new voters from the other side.\n
                      \n
                      > Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions”\n
                      \n
                      The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again, and reacting fairly little to that sort of stuff. It’s nowhere near the difference from voters switching to a different party altogether.
                      """
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                    > I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions.\n
                    \n
                    There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
                    \n
                    > You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party...\n
                    \n
                    I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
                    \n
                    > The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again\n
                    \n
                    Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?
                    """
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                  > There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
                  \n
                  Of course you (and other voters) contribute. The biggest party typically is one that forms the coalition and the vote share and recent performance at the poll among other things affects that.\n
                  \n
                  > I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
                  \n
                  They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
                  \n
                  > Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?\n
                  \n
                  No?? I’m saying the parties do similar sort of politics as they’ve been doing for decades. Voters swinging to the left has little effect when it’s the same Democrat party in rule. Or same for right wing. You need something dramatic for the position to actually move.
                  """
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                > They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
                \n
                Yes, exactly! But the difference is WHO is making the compromise. You, as a voter, or not. Maybe I like pro-business party but would never, ever vote for party that want to push religion into high school. In US, I will just not vote republican, because I can not make this compromise. But, in other countries, I may vote for pro-business party which then enters into coalition with religious party, and I can not take my vote back. And even in the next election I would not know if pro-business party will end up in coalition with religious party.\n
                \n
                > Or same for right wing.\n
                \n
                I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.
                """
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              If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
              \n
              > I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.\n
              \n
              That’s what I had in mind too. But Democratic party is still very much the same. It takes a *lot* to change those parties, otherwise it’s same old same old.
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            > If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
            \n
            They are making compromises (that you have not approved) as result of forming coalition. Democrats do not have to do those compromises - if they are in power - they are in power. The compromises were done at voting booth by you.
            """
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        +body: """
          Yes they do have to do compromises, they do them all the time. Compromises on who to cater to and who to piss off, what to do if they don’t have senate, house, presidency… You don’t get to decide those compromises. They might not even know they’ll have to make them or it would just look bad so they don’t mention them.\n
          \n
          Btw you can have a party holding +50% of the seats in multi-party democracy too. Could have “best of both”, if you are worried about parties having to fit into a coalition.
          """
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        > Yes they do have to do compromises, they do them all the time. Compromises on who to cater to and who to piss off...\n
        \n
        I am not saying they do not do any compromises. I am saying they do not have to do EXTRA compromises to form coalition. And those compromises could be particularly great.\n
        \n
        > Btw you can have a party holding +50% of the seats in multi-party democracy too.\n
        \n
        That, by itself, is not a good thing, since that would essentially mean that there is no strong opposition. I am of opinion that strong opposition is always needed. It keeps party in power "more honest". This is again advantage of the two party system, as I mentioned before.
        """
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      They’ve already made more compromises than a smaller party typically would have to since they’re trying to cater to so many people. Of course they still have to do compromises like the mentioned senate, house, presidential thing that we don’t really have, but that’s more not really a two/multi party thing.\n
      \n
      > That, by itself, is not a good thing, since that would essentially mean that there is no strong opposition. I am of opinion that strong opposition is always needed. It keeps party in power “more honest”. This is again advantage of the two party system, as I mentioned before.\n
      \n
      It’s a strange idea that +50% seats in two party system good but bad in multi-party system. It doesn’t mean there’s no strong opposition when there’s more than one opposition party…\n
      \n
      Also two party system is no guarantee for a strong opposition. You can easily have a situation where one clearly dominates. Strong opposition is not a guarantee or unique to two party system at all.
      """
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  +body: """
    > They’ve already made more compromises than a smaller party typically would have to since they’re trying to cater to so many people. Of course they still have to do compromises like the mentioned senate, house, presidential thing that we don’t really have, but that’s more not really a two/multi party thing.\n
    \n
    For the purpose of our discussion, it nearly does not matter how they come up with the platform before you vote. What matters is what happens after your choice. Whether your choice can be overwritten by necessity to create coalition. The voter becomes more removed from the policy of the ruling coalition than from the party in two party system.\n
    \n
    > It’s a strange idea that +50% seats in two party system good but bad in multi-party system.\n
    \n
    What is good and bad is not 51% seats, but the 49% of opposition. In situation when you have multi-party system and 51% are in hands of one party, it does not mean that you have 49% of strong opposition! Most likely you have like 20% and the rest are in-between to be opposed or not opposed. Opposition is not united in this case and can do nothing. It is weak. Not so for two party system. 51% is barely majority.\n
    \n
    > Also two party system is no guarantee for a strong opposition. You can easily have a situation where one clearly dominates.\n
    \n
    I agree with that in principle, but in practice, if one party starts taking 80% of votes, the other will adjust. On top of this, this situation is no different from 80% case in multi-party system so it is not what differentiate one from another.
    """
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163 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5599
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        Community rules\n
        ---------------\n
        \n
        1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
        \n
        3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
        \n
        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
        \n
        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
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                          +body: """
                            In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
                            \n
                            In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
                            \n
                            I still think that two party system is better.
                            """
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                          Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
                          \n
                          And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
                          """
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                        Multiparty system offers much better option to vote for, but then there is only one coalition. So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
                        \n
                        Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions” that you mention, but here, they are talking directly to voters, as opposed to each other. Again, I see advantage of two party system here.\n
                        \n
                        I believe that bad perception of two party system is because now, we truly have two camps in our culture - the society is broken in two, cohesiveness is lost. But it is not because of the two party system, it is the opposite: because of this cultural break it propagated, “mirrored” into our politics. But it is exactly how it supposed to work in representative democracy. It would be strange if we had this cultural problem and our politicians would not.
                        """
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                      Two party system is just a bad idea if you want to have options. It’s basically left or right and if you’re not pleased by their politics, what can you do, not vote or vote the other side even further from you?\n
                      \n
                      > then there is only one coalition\n
                      \n
                      I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions. All depends on who can make the 50%, if they’re going for a majority government.\n
                      \n
                      > So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
                      \n
                      You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party, since they have to please most of the voter base anyway and try to fish for new voters from the other side.\n
                      \n
                      > Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions”\n
                      \n
                      The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again, and reacting fairly little to that sort of stuff. It’s nowhere near the difference from voters switching to a different party altogether.
                      """
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                    > I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions.\n
                    \n
                    There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
                    \n
                    > You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party...\n
                    \n
                    I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
                    \n
                    > The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again\n
                    \n
                    Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?
                    """
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                  > There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
                  \n
                  Of course you (and other voters) contribute. The biggest party typically is one that forms the coalition and the vote share and recent performance at the poll among other things affects that.\n
                  \n
                  > I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
                  \n
                  They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
                  \n
                  > Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?\n
                  \n
                  No?? I’m saying the parties do similar sort of politics as they’ve been doing for decades. Voters swinging to the left has little effect when it’s the same Democrat party in rule. Or same for right wing. You need something dramatic for the position to actually move.
                  """
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                > They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
                \n
                Yes, exactly! But the difference is WHO is making the compromise. You, as a voter, or not. Maybe I like pro-business party but would never, ever vote for party that want to push religion into high school. In US, I will just not vote republican, because I can not make this compromise. But, in other countries, I may vote for pro-business party which then enters into coalition with religious party, and I can not take my vote back. And even in the next election I would not know if pro-business party will end up in coalition with religious party.\n
                \n
                > Or same for right wing.\n
                \n
                I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.
                """
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              If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
              \n
              > I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.\n
              \n
              That’s what I had in mind too. But Democratic party is still very much the same. It takes a *lot* to change those parties, otherwise it’s same old same old.
              """
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            > If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
            \n
            They are making compromises (that you have not approved) as result of forming coalition. Democrats do not have to do those compromises - if they are in power - they are in power. The compromises were done at voting booth by you.
            """
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          Yes they do have to do compromises, they do them all the time. Compromises on who to cater to and who to piss off, what to do if they don’t have senate, house, presidency… You don’t get to decide those compromises. They might not even know they’ll have to make them or it would just look bad so they don’t mention them.\n
          \n
          Btw you can have a party holding +50% of the seats in multi-party democracy too. Could have “best of both”, if you are worried about parties having to fit into a coalition.
          """
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        > Yes they do have to do compromises, they do them all the time. Compromises on who to cater to and who to piss off...\n
        \n
        I am not saying they do not do any compromises. I am saying they do not have to do EXTRA compromises to form coalition. And those compromises could be particularly great.\n
        \n
        > Btw you can have a party holding +50% of the seats in multi-party democracy too.\n
        \n
        That, by itself, is not a good thing, since that would essentially mean that there is no strong opposition. I am of opinion that strong opposition is always needed. It keeps party in power "more honest". This is again advantage of the two party system, as I mentioned before.
        """
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      They’ve already made more compromises than a smaller party typically would have to since they’re trying to cater to so many people. Of course they still have to do compromises like the mentioned senate, house, presidential thing that we don’t really have, but that’s more not really a two/multi party thing.\n
      \n
      > That, by itself, is not a good thing, since that would essentially mean that there is no strong opposition. I am of opinion that strong opposition is always needed. It keeps party in power “more honest”. This is again advantage of the two party system, as I mentioned before.\n
      \n
      It’s a strange idea that +50% seats in two party system good but bad in multi-party system. It doesn’t mean there’s no strong opposition when there’s more than one opposition party…\n
      \n
      Also two party system is no guarantee for a strong opposition. You can easily have a situation where one clearly dominates. Strong opposition is not a guarantee or unique to two party system at all.
      """
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  +body: """
    > They’ve already made more compromises than a smaller party typically would have to since they’re trying to cater to so many people. Of course they still have to do compromises like the mentioned senate, house, presidential thing that we don’t really have, but that’s more not really a two/multi party thing.\n
    \n
    For the purpose of our discussion, it nearly does not matter how they come up with the platform before you vote. What matters is what happens after your choice. Whether your choice can be overwritten by necessity to create coalition. The voter becomes more removed from the policy of the ruling coalition than from the party in two party system.\n
    \n
    > It’s a strange idea that +50% seats in two party system good but bad in multi-party system.\n
    \n
    What is good and bad is not 51% seats, but the 49% of opposition. In situation when you have multi-party system and 51% are in hands of one party, it does not mean that you have 49% of strong opposition! Most likely you have like 20% and the rest are in-between to be opposed or not opposed. Opposition is not united in this case and can do nothing. It is weak. Not so for two party system. 51% is barely majority.\n
    \n
    > Also two party system is no guarantee for a strong opposition. You can easily have a situation where one clearly dominates.\n
    \n
    I agree with that in principle, but in practice, if one party starts taking 80% of votes, the other will adjust. On top of this, this situation is no different from 80% case in multi-party system so it is not what differentiate one from another.
    """
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        Community rules\n
        ---------------\n
        \n
        1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
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        3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
        \n
        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
        \n
        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
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                          +body: """
                            In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
                            \n
                            In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
                            \n
                            I still think that two party system is better.
                            """
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                          Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
                          \n
                          And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
                          """
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                        Multiparty system offers much better option to vote for, but then there is only one coalition. So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
                        \n
                        Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions” that you mention, but here, they are talking directly to voters, as opposed to each other. Again, I see advantage of two party system here.\n
                        \n
                        I believe that bad perception of two party system is because now, we truly have two camps in our culture - the society is broken in two, cohesiveness is lost. But it is not because of the two party system, it is the opposite: because of this cultural break it propagated, “mirrored” into our politics. But it is exactly how it supposed to work in representative democracy. It would be strange if we had this cultural problem and our politicians would not.
                        """
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                      Two party system is just a bad idea if you want to have options. It’s basically left or right and if you’re not pleased by their politics, what can you do, not vote or vote the other side even further from you?\n
                      \n
                      > then there is only one coalition\n
                      \n
                      I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions. All depends on who can make the 50%, if they’re going for a majority government.\n
                      \n
                      > So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
                      \n
                      You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party, since they have to please most of the voter base anyway and try to fish for new voters from the other side.\n
                      \n
                      > Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions”\n
                      \n
                      The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again, and reacting fairly little to that sort of stuff. It’s nowhere near the difference from voters switching to a different party altogether.
                      """
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                    > I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions.\n
                    \n
                    There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
                    \n
                    > You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party...\n
                    \n
                    I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
                    \n
                    > The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again\n
                    \n
                    Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?
                    """
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                  > There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
                  \n
                  Of course you (and other voters) contribute. The biggest party typically is one that forms the coalition and the vote share and recent performance at the poll among other things affects that.\n
                  \n
                  > I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
                  \n
                  They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
                  \n
                  > Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?\n
                  \n
                  No?? I’m saying the parties do similar sort of politics as they’ve been doing for decades. Voters swinging to the left has little effect when it’s the same Democrat party in rule. Or same for right wing. You need something dramatic for the position to actually move.
                  """
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                > They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
                \n
                Yes, exactly! But the difference is WHO is making the compromise. You, as a voter, or not. Maybe I like pro-business party but would never, ever vote for party that want to push religion into high school. In US, I will just not vote republican, because I can not make this compromise. But, in other countries, I may vote for pro-business party which then enters into coalition with religious party, and I can not take my vote back. And even in the next election I would not know if pro-business party will end up in coalition with religious party.\n
                \n
                > Or same for right wing.\n
                \n
                I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.
                """
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              If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
              \n
              > I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.\n
              \n
              That’s what I had in mind too. But Democratic party is still very much the same. It takes a *lot* to change those parties, otherwise it’s same old same old.
              """
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            > If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
            \n
            They are making compromises (that you have not approved) as result of forming coalition. Democrats do not have to do those compromises - if they are in power - they are in power. The compromises were done at voting booth by you.
            """
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          Yes they do have to do compromises, they do them all the time. Compromises on who to cater to and who to piss off, what to do if they don’t have senate, house, presidency… You don’t get to decide those compromises. They might not even know they’ll have to make them or it would just look bad so they don’t mention them.\n
          \n
          Btw you can have a party holding +50% of the seats in multi-party democracy too. Could have “best of both”, if you are worried about parties having to fit into a coalition.
          """
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        > Yes they do have to do compromises, they do them all the time. Compromises on who to cater to and who to piss off...\n
        \n
        I am not saying they do not do any compromises. I am saying they do not have to do EXTRA compromises to form coalition. And those compromises could be particularly great.\n
        \n
        > Btw you can have a party holding +50% of the seats in multi-party democracy too.\n
        \n
        That, by itself, is not a good thing, since that would essentially mean that there is no strong opposition. I am of opinion that strong opposition is always needed. It keeps party in power "more honest". This is again advantage of the two party system, as I mentioned before.
        """
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      They’ve already made more compromises than a smaller party typically would have to since they’re trying to cater to so many people. Of course they still have to do compromises like the mentioned senate, house, presidential thing that we don’t really have, but that’s more not really a two/multi party thing.\n
      \n
      > That, by itself, is not a good thing, since that would essentially mean that there is no strong opposition. I am of opinion that strong opposition is always needed. It keeps party in power “more honest”. This is again advantage of the two party system, as I mentioned before.\n
      \n
      It’s a strange idea that +50% seats in two party system good but bad in multi-party system. It doesn’t mean there’s no strong opposition when there’s more than one opposition party…\n
      \n
      Also two party system is no guarantee for a strong opposition. You can easily have a situation where one clearly dominates. Strong opposition is not a guarantee or unique to two party system at all.
      """
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    > They’ve already made more compromises than a smaller party typically would have to since they’re trying to cater to so many people. Of course they still have to do compromises like the mentioned senate, house, presidential thing that we don’t really have, but that’s more not really a two/multi party thing.\n
    \n
    For the purpose of our discussion, it nearly does not matter how they come up with the platform before you vote. What matters is what happens after your choice. Whether your choice can be overwritten by necessity to create coalition. The voter becomes more removed from the policy of the ruling coalition than from the party in two party system.\n
    \n
    > It’s a strange idea that +50% seats in two party system good but bad in multi-party system.\n
    \n
    What is good and bad is not 51% seats, but the 49% of opposition. In situation when you have multi-party system and 51% are in hands of one party, it does not mean that you have 49% of strong opposition! Most likely you have like 20% and the rest are in-between to be opposed or not opposed. Opposition is not united in this case and can do nothing. It is weak. Not so for two party system. 51% is barely majority.\n
    \n
    > Also two party system is no guarantee for a strong opposition. You can easily have a situation where one clearly dominates.\n
    \n
    I agree with that in principle, but in practice, if one party starts taking 80% of votes, the other will adjust. On top of this, this situation is no different from 80% case in multi-party system so it is not what differentiate one from another.
    """
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        Community rules\n
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        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
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        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
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                            +body: """
                              In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
                              \n
                              In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
                              \n
                              I still think that two party system is better.
                              """
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                            Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
                            \n
                            And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
                            """
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                          Multiparty system offers much better option to vote for, but then there is only one coalition. So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
                          \n
                          Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions” that you mention, but here, they are talking directly to voters, as opposed to each other. Again, I see advantage of two party system here.\n
                          \n
                          I believe that bad perception of two party system is because now, we truly have two camps in our culture - the society is broken in two, cohesiveness is lost. But it is not because of the two party system, it is the opposite: because of this cultural break it propagated, “mirrored” into our politics. But it is exactly how it supposed to work in representative democracy. It would be strange if we had this cultural problem and our politicians would not.
                          """
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                        Two party system is just a bad idea if you want to have options. It’s basically left or right and if you’re not pleased by their politics, what can you do, not vote or vote the other side even further from you?\n
                        \n
                        > then there is only one coalition\n
                        \n
                        I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions. All depends on who can make the 50%, if they’re going for a majority government.\n
                        \n
                        > So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
                        \n
                        You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party, since they have to please most of the voter base anyway and try to fish for new voters from the other side.\n
                        \n
                        > Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions”\n
                        \n
                        The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again, and reacting fairly little to that sort of stuff. It’s nowhere near the difference from voters switching to a different party altogether.
                        """
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                      > I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions.\n
                      \n
                      There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
                      \n
                      > You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party...\n
                      \n
                      I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
                      \n
                      > The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again\n
                      \n
                      Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?
                      """
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                    > There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
                    \n
                    Of course you (and other voters) contribute. The biggest party typically is one that forms the coalition and the vote share and recent performance at the poll among other things affects that.\n
                    \n
                    > I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
                    \n
                    They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
                    \n
                    > Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?\n
                    \n
                    No?? I’m saying the parties do similar sort of politics as they’ve been doing for decades. Voters swinging to the left has little effect when it’s the same Democrat party in rule. Or same for right wing. You need something dramatic for the position to actually move.
                    """
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                  > They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
                  \n
                  Yes, exactly! But the difference is WHO is making the compromise. You, as a voter, or not. Maybe I like pro-business party but would never, ever vote for party that want to push religion into high school. In US, I will just not vote republican, because I can not make this compromise. But, in other countries, I may vote for pro-business party which then enters into coalition with religious party, and I can not take my vote back. And even in the next election I would not know if pro-business party will end up in coalition with religious party.\n
                  \n
                  > Or same for right wing.\n
                  \n
                  I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.
                  """
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                If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
                \n
                > I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.\n
                \n
                That’s what I had in mind too. But Democratic party is still very much the same. It takes a *lot* to change those parties, otherwise it’s same old same old.
                """
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              > If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
              \n
              They are making compromises (that you have not approved) as result of forming coalition. Democrats do not have to do those compromises - if they are in power - they are in power. The compromises were done at voting booth by you.
              """
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            Yes they do have to do compromises, they do them all the time. Compromises on who to cater to and who to piss off, what to do if they don’t have senate, house, presidency… You don’t get to decide those compromises. They might not even know they’ll have to make them or it would just look bad so they don’t mention them.\n
            \n
            Btw you can have a party holding +50% of the seats in multi-party democracy too. Could have “best of both”, if you are worried about parties having to fit into a coalition.
            """
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          > Yes they do have to do compromises, they do them all the time. Compromises on who to cater to and who to piss off...\n
          \n
          I am not saying they do not do any compromises. I am saying they do not have to do EXTRA compromises to form coalition. And those compromises could be particularly great.\n
          \n
          > Btw you can have a party holding +50% of the seats in multi-party democracy too.\n
          \n
          That, by itself, is not a good thing, since that would essentially mean that there is no strong opposition. I am of opinion that strong opposition is always needed. It keeps party in power "more honest". This is again advantage of the two party system, as I mentioned before.
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        They’ve already made more compromises than a smaller party typically would have to since they’re trying to cater to so many people. Of course they still have to do compromises like the mentioned senate, house, presidential thing that we don’t really have, but that’s more not really a two/multi party thing.\n
        \n
        > That, by itself, is not a good thing, since that would essentially mean that there is no strong opposition. I am of opinion that strong opposition is always needed. It keeps party in power “more honest”. This is again advantage of the two party system, as I mentioned before.\n
        \n
        It’s a strange idea that +50% seats in two party system good but bad in multi-party system. It doesn’t mean there’s no strong opposition when there’s more than one opposition party…\n
        \n
        Also two party system is no guarantee for a strong opposition. You can easily have a situation where one clearly dominates. Strong opposition is not a guarantee or unique to two party system at all.
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      > They’ve already made more compromises than a smaller party typically would have to since they’re trying to cater to so many people. Of course they still have to do compromises like the mentioned senate, house, presidential thing that we don’t really have, but that’s more not really a two/multi party thing.\n
      \n
      For the purpose of our discussion, it nearly does not matter how they come up with the platform before you vote. What matters is what happens after your choice. Whether your choice can be overwritten by necessity to create coalition. The voter becomes more removed from the policy of the ruling coalition than from the party in two party system.\n
      \n
      > It’s a strange idea that +50% seats in two party system good but bad in multi-party system.\n
      \n
      What is good and bad is not 51% seats, but the 49% of opposition. In situation when you have multi-party system and 51% are in hands of one party, it does not mean that you have 49% of strong opposition! Most likely you have like 20% and the rest are in-between to be opposed or not opposed. Opposition is not united in this case and can do nothing. It is weak. Not so for two party system. 51% is barely majority.\n
      \n
      > Also two party system is no guarantee for a strong opposition. You can easily have a situation where one clearly dominates.\n
      \n
      I agree with that in principle, but in practice, if one party starts taking 80% of votes, the other will adjust. On top of this, this situation is no different from 80% case in multi-party system so it is not what differentiate one from another.
      """
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  +body: """
    Your vote can be overridden no matter what. There’s nothing saving you from that. Party platforms in any kind of system aren’t very good promises on what will happen.\n
    \n
    I’m not sure if it was just a poor choice of words but there’s no *necessity* to compromise to form a coalition. A party can decide not to participate or come to the conclusion that they aren’t able to form an effective coalition (if the biggest party).\n
    \n
    > Opposition is not united in this case and can do nothing\n
    \n
    And what, you think in two party system the opposition party can just take down the government from minority position? Of course the opposition can rally against the government and hope their lines break. Which is something that can be more likely when it’s a coalition. But it being a single or multi party doesn’t matter. If government lines hold, there’s nothing to be done other than rallying against them and waiting for the next elections.\n
    \n
    > Most likely you have like 20% and the rest are in-between to be opposed or not opposed\n
    \n
    In my experience that is not at all the case, rather parties supporting the standing government outside of it is a rarity. Such party will most likely suffer from unpopular decisions of the government and not benefit from the possibility of being in opposition. It’s rarely a smart position to be in.\n
    \n
    Not to mention in multi-party system, it’s not just sitting government vs opposition that are fighting, but the parties within the coalition and parties in the opposition are competing. And after elections, some government parties might end up joining the new government formed by opposition parties and so on. The whole point is that it’s not just two opposing sides, this or that, but multitude of ideologies and platforms that are competing.\n
    \n
    > I agree with that in principle, but in practice, if one party starts taking 80% of votes, the other will adjust. On top of this, this situation is no different from 80% case in multi-party system so it is not what differentiate one from another.\n
    \n
    I’m surprised. I thought the idea that two party system meant a strong opposition was one of your main points.
    """
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        Community rules\n
        ---------------\n
        \n
        1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
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        3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
        \n
        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
        \n
        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
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    +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
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                            +body: """
                              In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
                              \n
                              In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
                              \n
                              I still think that two party system is better.
                              """
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                          +body: """
                            Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
                            \n
                            And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
                            """
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                          Multiparty system offers much better option to vote for, but then there is only one coalition. So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
                          \n
                          Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions” that you mention, but here, they are talking directly to voters, as opposed to each other. Again, I see advantage of two party system here.\n
                          \n
                          I believe that bad perception of two party system is because now, we truly have two camps in our culture - the society is broken in two, cohesiveness is lost. But it is not because of the two party system, it is the opposite: because of this cultural break it propagated, “mirrored” into our politics. But it is exactly how it supposed to work in representative democracy. It would be strange if we had this cultural problem and our politicians would not.
                          """
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                        Two party system is just a bad idea if you want to have options. It’s basically left or right and if you’re not pleased by their politics, what can you do, not vote or vote the other side even further from you?\n
                        \n
                        > then there is only one coalition\n
                        \n
                        I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions. All depends on who can make the 50%, if they’re going for a majority government.\n
                        \n
                        > So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
                        \n
                        You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party, since they have to please most of the voter base anyway and try to fish for new voters from the other side.\n
                        \n
                        > Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions”\n
                        \n
                        The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again, and reacting fairly little to that sort of stuff. It’s nowhere near the difference from voters switching to a different party altogether.
                        """
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                      > I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions.\n
                      \n
                      There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
                      \n
                      > You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party...\n
                      \n
                      I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
                      \n
                      > The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again\n
                      \n
                      Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?
                      """
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                    > There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
                    \n
                    Of course you (and other voters) contribute. The biggest party typically is one that forms the coalition and the vote share and recent performance at the poll among other things affects that.\n
                    \n
                    > I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
                    \n
                    They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
                    \n
                    > Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?\n
                    \n
                    No?? I’m saying the parties do similar sort of politics as they’ve been doing for decades. Voters swinging to the left has little effect when it’s the same Democrat party in rule. Or same for right wing. You need something dramatic for the position to actually move.
                    """
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                  > They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
                  \n
                  Yes, exactly! But the difference is WHO is making the compromise. You, as a voter, or not. Maybe I like pro-business party but would never, ever vote for party that want to push religion into high school. In US, I will just not vote republican, because I can not make this compromise. But, in other countries, I may vote for pro-business party which then enters into coalition with religious party, and I can not take my vote back. And even in the next election I would not know if pro-business party will end up in coalition with religious party.\n
                  \n
                  > Or same for right wing.\n
                  \n
                  I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.
                  """
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                If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
                \n
                > I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.\n
                \n
                That’s what I had in mind too. But Democratic party is still very much the same. It takes a *lot* to change those parties, otherwise it’s same old same old.
                """
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              > If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
              \n
              They are making compromises (that you have not approved) as result of forming coalition. Democrats do not have to do those compromises - if they are in power - they are in power. The compromises were done at voting booth by you.
              """
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            Yes they do have to do compromises, they do them all the time. Compromises on who to cater to and who to piss off, what to do if they don’t have senate, house, presidency… You don’t get to decide those compromises. They might not even know they’ll have to make them or it would just look bad so they don’t mention them.\n
            \n
            Btw you can have a party holding +50% of the seats in multi-party democracy too. Could have “best of both”, if you are worried about parties having to fit into a coalition.
            """
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          > Yes they do have to do compromises, they do them all the time. Compromises on who to cater to and who to piss off...\n
          \n
          I am not saying they do not do any compromises. I am saying they do not have to do EXTRA compromises to form coalition. And those compromises could be particularly great.\n
          \n
          > Btw you can have a party holding +50% of the seats in multi-party democracy too.\n
          \n
          That, by itself, is not a good thing, since that would essentially mean that there is no strong opposition. I am of opinion that strong opposition is always needed. It keeps party in power "more honest". This is again advantage of the two party system, as I mentioned before.
          """
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        They’ve already made more compromises than a smaller party typically would have to since they’re trying to cater to so many people. Of course they still have to do compromises like the mentioned senate, house, presidential thing that we don’t really have, but that’s more not really a two/multi party thing.\n
        \n
        > That, by itself, is not a good thing, since that would essentially mean that there is no strong opposition. I am of opinion that strong opposition is always needed. It keeps party in power “more honest”. This is again advantage of the two party system, as I mentioned before.\n
        \n
        It’s a strange idea that +50% seats in two party system good but bad in multi-party system. It doesn’t mean there’s no strong opposition when there’s more than one opposition party…\n
        \n
        Also two party system is no guarantee for a strong opposition. You can easily have a situation where one clearly dominates. Strong opposition is not a guarantee or unique to two party system at all.
        """
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      > They’ve already made more compromises than a smaller party typically would have to since they’re trying to cater to so many people. Of course they still have to do compromises like the mentioned senate, house, presidential thing that we don’t really have, but that’s more not really a two/multi party thing.\n
      \n
      For the purpose of our discussion, it nearly does not matter how they come up with the platform before you vote. What matters is what happens after your choice. Whether your choice can be overwritten by necessity to create coalition. The voter becomes more removed from the policy of the ruling coalition than from the party in two party system.\n
      \n
      > It’s a strange idea that +50% seats in two party system good but bad in multi-party system.\n
      \n
      What is good and bad is not 51% seats, but the 49% of opposition. In situation when you have multi-party system and 51% are in hands of one party, it does not mean that you have 49% of strong opposition! Most likely you have like 20% and the rest are in-between to be opposed or not opposed. Opposition is not united in this case and can do nothing. It is weak. Not so for two party system. 51% is barely majority.\n
      \n
      > Also two party system is no guarantee for a strong opposition. You can easily have a situation where one clearly dominates.\n
      \n
      I agree with that in principle, but in practice, if one party starts taking 80% of votes, the other will adjust. On top of this, this situation is no different from 80% case in multi-party system so it is not what differentiate one from another.
      """
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    Your vote can be overridden no matter what. There’s nothing saving you from that. Party platforms in any kind of system aren’t very good promises on what will happen.\n
    \n
    I’m not sure if it was just a poor choice of words but there’s no *necessity* to compromise to form a coalition. A party can decide not to participate or come to the conclusion that they aren’t able to form an effective coalition (if the biggest party).\n
    \n
    > Opposition is not united in this case and can do nothing\n
    \n
    And what, you think in two party system the opposition party can just take down the government from minority position? Of course the opposition can rally against the government and hope their lines break. Which is something that can be more likely when it’s a coalition. But it being a single or multi party doesn’t matter. If government lines hold, there’s nothing to be done other than rallying against them and waiting for the next elections.\n
    \n
    > Most likely you have like 20% and the rest are in-between to be opposed or not opposed\n
    \n
    In my experience that is not at all the case, rather parties supporting the standing government outside of it is a rarity. Such party will most likely suffer from unpopular decisions of the government and not benefit from the possibility of being in opposition. It’s rarely a smart position to be in.\n
    \n
    Not to mention in multi-party system, it’s not just sitting government vs opposition that are fighting, but the parties within the coalition and parties in the opposition are competing. And after elections, some government parties might end up joining the new government formed by opposition parties and so on. The whole point is that it’s not just two opposing sides, this or that, but multitude of ideologies and platforms that are competing.\n
    \n
    > I agree with that in principle, but in practice, if one party starts taking 80% of votes, the other will adjust. On top of this, this situation is no different from 80% case in multi-party system so it is not what differentiate one from another.\n
    \n
    I’m surprised. I thought the idea that two party system meant a strong opposition was one of your main points.
    """
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        Community rules\n
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        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
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        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
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                            +body: """
                              In multy-party system, you often end up voting for a party that then on your behalf makes deals with other parties to form coalition, deals you did not agree upon. It is like delegation of duty, or rather usurpation of your vote. And you still end up with fucked up government that does not reflect your values. In two party system you are the one who are forced to make those compromises.\n
                              \n
                              In multiparty system, often one coalition (or even party) dominates for many years and election cycles. The two party system nearly guarantees strong opposition.\n
                              \n
                              I still think that two party system is better.
                              """
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                          +body: """
                            Power balances inside those coalitions (which can vary wildly depending on the votes outcome, compared to two party system) affect *a lot*. If the stricter left-wing party wins over the center-left party and gets to be the PM party then obviously the coalition is going to be more left-wing. And so on.\n
                            \n
                            And it offers much better options for people to shop for a party they actually agree with. Having to vote either this or that is a sucky system because it offers basically two avenues for you if you are not happy with the party you voted for. Either you switch to the other side totally (which is often not at all what you want) or you don’t vote and you’ll just end up helping the other party anyway. Great options.
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                          Multiparty system offers much better option to vote for, but then there is only one coalition. So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
                          \n
                          Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions” that you mention, but here, they are talking directly to voters, as opposed to each other. Again, I see advantage of two party system here.\n
                          \n
                          I believe that bad perception of two party system is because now, we truly have two camps in our culture - the society is broken in two, cohesiveness is lost. But it is not because of the two party system, it is the opposite: because of this cultural break it propagated, “mirrored” into our politics. But it is exactly how it supposed to work in representative democracy. It would be strange if we had this cultural problem and our politicians would not.
                          """
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                        Two party system is just a bad idea if you want to have options. It’s basically left or right and if you’re not pleased by their politics, what can you do, not vote or vote the other side even further from you?\n
                        \n
                        > then there is only one coalition\n
                        \n
                        I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions. All depends on who can make the 50%, if they’re going for a majority government.\n
                        \n
                        > So, the question is only if you are the one deciding what compromise to make, or party you vote for decides for you. There is argument to be made that it is better for democracy that you decide for that.\n
                        \n
                        You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party, since they have to please most of the voter base anyway and try to fish for new voters from the other side.\n
                        \n
                        > Each party in 2 party system tries to maximize number of votes and adjusts its position for that as well, which is similar to “power balances shift inside those coalitions”\n
                        \n
                        The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again, and reacting fairly little to that sort of stuff. It’s nowhere near the difference from voters switching to a different party altogether.
                        """
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                      > I don’t get what you mean. There’s a huge variety of possible coalitions.\n
                      \n
                      There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
                      \n
                      > You are absolutely not the one making those decisions with two party system with two big tent parties. They’re making those decisions and compromises inside the party...\n
                      \n
                      I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
                      \n
                      > The established party leadership in the US seem to just do similar sort of politics again and again\n
                      \n
                      Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?
                      """
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                    > There many possible coalitions, but there is actually just one with which you end up with, and into which you do not contribute.\n
                    \n
                    Of course you (and other voters) contribute. The biggest party typically is one that forms the coalition and the vote share and recent performance at the poll among other things affects that.\n
                    \n
                    > I am not talking about compromises inside the party. I am talking about compromises that you are forced to make when you select one or another party.\n
                    \n
                    They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
                    \n
                    > Are you arguing that US parties are too similar?\n
                    \n
                    No?? I’m saying the parties do similar sort of politics as they’ve been doing for decades. Voters swinging to the left has little effect when it’s the same Democrat party in rule. Or same for right wing. You need something dramatic for the position to actually move.
                    """
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                  > They are the same sort of compromises. There’s a reason every round people are unsatisfied with the result, even if their party won.\n
                  \n
                  Yes, exactly! But the difference is WHO is making the compromise. You, as a voter, or not. Maybe I like pro-business party but would never, ever vote for party that want to push religion into high school. In US, I will just not vote republican, because I can not make this compromise. But, in other countries, I may vote for pro-business party which then enters into coalition with religious party, and I can not take my vote back. And even in the next election I would not know if pro-business party will end up in coalition with religious party.\n
                  \n
                  > Or same for right wing.\n
                  \n
                  I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.
                  """
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                If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
                \n
                > I would say that particularly GOP is very different than it were 10 years ago, because of the Trump voters.\n
                \n
                That’s what I had in mind too. But Democratic party is still very much the same. It takes a *lot* to change those parties, otherwise it’s same old same old.
                """
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              > If the pro-business party is making compromises or decisions you don’t like, you can switch your party. If Democrats make those compromises or decisions, where will you go?\n
              \n
              They are making compromises (that you have not approved) as result of forming coalition. Democrats do not have to do those compromises - if they are in power - they are in power. The compromises were done at voting booth by you.
              """
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            Yes they do have to do compromises, they do them all the time. Compromises on who to cater to and who to piss off, what to do if they don’t have senate, house, presidency… You don’t get to decide those compromises. They might not even know they’ll have to make them or it would just look bad so they don’t mention them.\n
            \n
            Btw you can have a party holding +50% of the seats in multi-party democracy too. Could have “best of both”, if you are worried about parties having to fit into a coalition.
            """
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          > Yes they do have to do compromises, they do them all the time. Compromises on who to cater to and who to piss off...\n
          \n
          I am not saying they do not do any compromises. I am saying they do not have to do EXTRA compromises to form coalition. And those compromises could be particularly great.\n
          \n
          > Btw you can have a party holding +50% of the seats in multi-party democracy too.\n
          \n
          That, by itself, is not a good thing, since that would essentially mean that there is no strong opposition. I am of opinion that strong opposition is always needed. It keeps party in power "more honest". This is again advantage of the two party system, as I mentioned before.
          """
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        They’ve already made more compromises than a smaller party typically would have to since they’re trying to cater to so many people. Of course they still have to do compromises like the mentioned senate, house, presidential thing that we don’t really have, but that’s more not really a two/multi party thing.\n
        \n
        > That, by itself, is not a good thing, since that would essentially mean that there is no strong opposition. I am of opinion that strong opposition is always needed. It keeps party in power “more honest”. This is again advantage of the two party system, as I mentioned before.\n
        \n
        It’s a strange idea that +50% seats in two party system good but bad in multi-party system. It doesn’t mean there’s no strong opposition when there’s more than one opposition party…\n
        \n
        Also two party system is no guarantee for a strong opposition. You can easily have a situation where one clearly dominates. Strong opposition is not a guarantee or unique to two party system at all.
        """
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    +body: """
      > They’ve already made more compromises than a smaller party typically would have to since they’re trying to cater to so many people. Of course they still have to do compromises like the mentioned senate, house, presidential thing that we don’t really have, but that’s more not really a two/multi party thing.\n
      \n
      For the purpose of our discussion, it nearly does not matter how they come up with the platform before you vote. What matters is what happens after your choice. Whether your choice can be overwritten by necessity to create coalition. The voter becomes more removed from the policy of the ruling coalition than from the party in two party system.\n
      \n
      > It’s a strange idea that +50% seats in two party system good but bad in multi-party system.\n
      \n
      What is good and bad is not 51% seats, but the 49% of opposition. In situation when you have multi-party system and 51% are in hands of one party, it does not mean that you have 49% of strong opposition! Most likely you have like 20% and the rest are in-between to be opposed or not opposed. Opposition is not united in this case and can do nothing. It is weak. Not so for two party system. 51% is barely majority.\n
      \n
      > Also two party system is no guarantee for a strong opposition. You can easily have a situation where one clearly dominates.\n
      \n
      I agree with that in principle, but in practice, if one party starts taking 80% of votes, the other will adjust. On top of this, this situation is no different from 80% case in multi-party system so it is not what differentiate one from another.
      """
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  +body: """
    Your vote can be overridden no matter what. There’s nothing saving you from that. Party platforms in any kind of system aren’t very good promises on what will happen.\n
    \n
    I’m not sure if it was just a poor choice of words but there’s no *necessity* to compromise to form a coalition. A party can decide not to participate or come to the conclusion that they aren’t able to form an effective coalition (if the biggest party).\n
    \n
    > Opposition is not united in this case and can do nothing\n
    \n
    And what, you think in two party system the opposition party can just take down the government from minority position? Of course the opposition can rally against the government and hope their lines break. Which is something that can be more likely when it’s a coalition. But it being a single or multi party doesn’t matter. If government lines hold, there’s nothing to be done other than rallying against them and waiting for the next elections.\n
    \n
    > Most likely you have like 20% and the rest are in-between to be opposed or not opposed\n
    \n
    In my experience that is not at all the case, rather parties supporting the standing government outside of it is a rarity. Such party will most likely suffer from unpopular decisions of the government and not benefit from the possibility of being in opposition. It’s rarely a smart position to be in.\n
    \n
    Not to mention in multi-party system, it’s not just sitting government vs opposition that are fighting, but the parties within the coalition and parties in the opposition are competing. And after elections, some government parties might end up joining the new government formed by opposition parties and so on. The whole point is that it’s not just two opposing sides, this or that, but multitude of ideologies and platforms that are competing.\n
    \n
    > I agree with that in principle, but in practice, if one party starts taking 80% of votes, the other will adjust. On top of this, this situation is no different from 80% case in multi-party system so it is not what differentiate one from another.\n
    \n
    I’m surprised. I thought the idea that two party system meant a strong opposition was one of your main points.
    """
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        Community rules\n
        ---------------\n
        \n
        1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
        \n
        3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
        \n
        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
        \n
        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
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    +url: "https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/4c96ba32-e740-4fe9-9bd4-f03c00518d72.webp"
    +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
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    Here are some cold hard Ameri-facts for you:\n
    \n
    - Having 2 dominant political parties is a reflection of **how our political systems have been designed at almost every level** (federal, state, local). American politics is very much based on first-past-the-post, winner-takes-all elections. These kinds of election systems are terrible for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is the very real problem of [vote splitting and the spoiler effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_splitting#%22Spoiler_effect%22)--leading to "third parties" which are almost all unserious, nonviable, and potentially backed by people with ulterior motives. The vast majority of the time, voting for a third party candidate in America is simply throwing your vote away and is effectively the same as not voting. (Even as a "protest", it's not a very good one, because it's never clear what can be interpreted from why people vote the way they do.)\n
    \n
    The solution to this problem is changing how we run elections so that the most popular candidates are more likely to win, and so that people's individual votes are less likely to become nullified in various ways (like by voting for a statistically nonviable candidate, for one). I like **Ranked Choice Voting** and **STAR voting**, but just about anything is better than the way that most American elections currently work.\n
    \n
    - Even in a hypothetical future where we have 10 viable parties (and more democratic voting systems), no political party is going to "give a fuck about you" as an individual. Republicans, Democrats, Greens, Libertarians, Vegetarians, Librarians, and whatever other parties spring up. The truth is, they *all* only give a fuck about getting your vote, so that they can get in a position of political power to do the things that they and their influential backers want (all the while reaping the benefits of doing so). There is no political party on Earth that is in it for the benefit of all of mankind--they all have some kind of agenda and ideology that they want to put in place.\n
    \n
    In that way American politics is like a tug of war, we current have 2 viable parties, one pulling the rope to the left and another pulling the rope to the right. You can spend as much time as you want lamenting where the rope currently is compared to where you would like it to be. But if you want the rope to move left, it makes sense to join the left side. And if you want the rope to move right, it makes sense to join the right side. Sitting out just makes it easier for the "other side" to make "progress". Having more parties doesn't really change that, it just turns a 1-dimensional battle into an n-dimensional battle.\n
    \n
    The biggest benefit that comes from having multiple (viable) political parties is increased competition of ideas. But again, America truly require huge *systemic* changes to how we run elections to make that a reality.\n
    \n
    I'm going to be voting for the party that more closely aligns with the *direction* that I want the country to move in. It's the only smart move in the game of American politics.
    """
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
171 DENIED edit 
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        \n
        \n
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        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
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    Here are some cold hard Ameri-facts for you:\n
    \n
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    \n
    The solution to this problem is changing how we run elections so that the most popular candidates are more likely to win, and so that people's individual votes are less likely to become nullified in various ways (like by voting for a statistically nonviable candidate, for one). I like **Ranked Choice Voting** and **STAR voting**, but just about anything is better than the way that most American elections currently work.\n
    \n
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    \n
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    \n
    The biggest benefit that comes from having multiple (viable) political parties is increased competition of ideas. But again, America truly require huge *systemic* changes to how we run elections to make that a reality.\n
    \n
    I'm going to be voting for the party that more closely aligns with the *direction* that I want the country to move in. It's the only smart move in the game of American politics.
    """
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS DENIED 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
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 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
172 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5023
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        ---------------\n
        \n
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        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
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        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
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    Here are some cold hard Ameri-facts for you:\n
    \n
    - Having 2 dominant political parties is a reflection of **how our political systems have been designed at almost every level** (federal, state, local). American politics is very much based on first-past-the-post, winner-takes-all elections. These kinds of election systems are terrible for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is the very real problem of [vote splitting and the spoiler effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_splitting#%22Spoiler_effect%22)--leading to "third parties" which are almost all unserious, nonviable, and potentially backed by people with ulterior motives. The vast majority of the time, voting for a third party candidate in America is simply throwing your vote away and is effectively the same as not voting. (Even as a "protest", it's not a very good one, because it's never clear what can be interpreted from why people vote the way they do.)\n
    \n
    The solution to this problem is changing how we run elections so that the most popular candidates are more likely to win, and so that people's individual votes are less likely to become nullified in various ways (like by voting for a statistically nonviable candidate, for one). I like **Ranked Choice Voting** and **STAR voting**, but just about anything is better than the way that most American elections currently work.\n
    \n
    - Even in a hypothetical future where we have 10 viable parties (and more democratic voting systems), no political party is going to "give a fuck about you" as an individual. Republicans, Democrats, Greens, Libertarians, Vegetarians, Librarians, and whatever other parties spring up. The truth is, they *all* only give a fuck about getting your vote, so that they can get in a position of political power to do the things that they and their influential backers want (all the while reaping the benefits of doing so). There is no political party on Earth that is in it for the benefit of all of mankind--they all have some kind of agenda and ideology that they want to put in place.\n
    \n
    In that way American politics is like a tug of war, we current have 2 viable parties, one pulling the rope to the left and another pulling the rope to the right. You can spend as much time as you want lamenting where the rope currently is compared to where you would like it to be. But if you want the rope to move left, it makes sense to join the left side. And if you want the rope to move right, it makes sense to join the right side. Sitting out just makes it easier for the "other side" to make "progress". Having more parties doesn't really change that, it just turns a 1-dimensional battle into an n-dimensional battle.\n
    \n
    The biggest benefit that comes from having multiple (viable) political parties is increased competition of ideas. But again, America truly require huge *systemic* changes to how we run elections to make that a reality.\n
    \n
    I'm going to be voting for the party that more closely aligns with the *direction* that I want the country to move in. It's the only smart move in the game of American politics.
    """
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        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
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    +slug: "Two-Party-System-Why"
    +title: "Two Party System. Why."
    +url: "https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/4c96ba32-e740-4fe9-9bd4-f03c00518d72.webp"
    +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
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      Here are some cold hard Ameri-facts for you:\n
      \n
      - Having 2 dominant political parties is a reflection of **how our political systems have been designed at almost every level** (federal, state, local). American politics is very much based on first-past-the-post, winner-takes-all elections. These kinds of election systems are terrible for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is the very real problem of [vote splitting and the spoiler effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_splitting#%22Spoiler_effect%22)--leading to "third parties" which are almost all unserious, nonviable, and potentially backed by people with ulterior motives. The vast majority of the time, voting for a third party candidate in America is simply throwing your vote away and is effectively the same as not voting. (Even as a "protest", it's not a very good one, because it's never clear what can be interpreted from why people vote the way they do.)\n
      \n
      The solution to this problem is changing how we run elections so that the most popular candidates are more likely to win, and so that people's individual votes are less likely to become nullified in various ways (like by voting for a statistically nonviable candidate, for one). I like **Ranked Choice Voting** and **STAR voting**, but just about anything is better than the way that most American elections currently work.\n
      \n
      - Even in a hypothetical future where we have 10 viable parties (and more democratic voting systems), no political party is going to "give a fuck about you" as an individual. Republicans, Democrats, Greens, Libertarians, Vegetarians, Librarians, and whatever other parties spring up. The truth is, they *all* only give a fuck about getting your vote, so that they can get in a position of political power to do the things that they and their influential backers want (all the while reaping the benefits of doing so). There is no political party on Earth that is in it for the benefit of all of mankind--they all have some kind of agenda and ideology that they want to put in place.\n
      \n
      In that way American politics is like a tug of war, we current have 2 viable parties, one pulling the rope to the left and another pulling the rope to the right. You can spend as much time as you want lamenting where the rope currently is compared to where you would like it to be. But if you want the rope to move left, it makes sense to join the left side. And if you want the rope to move right, it makes sense to join the right side. Sitting out just makes it easier for the "other side" to make "progress". Having more parties doesn't really change that, it just turns a 1-dimensional battle into an n-dimensional battle.\n
      \n
      The biggest benefit that comes from having multiple (viable) political parties is increased competition of ideas. But again, America truly require huge *systemic* changes to how we run elections to make that a reality.\n
      \n
      I'm going to be voting for the party that more closely aligns with the *direction* that I want the country to move in. It's the only smart move in the game of American politics.
      """
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  +body: "Librarians lmao"
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        ---------------\n
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        Sister communities\n
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        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
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        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
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    +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
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      Here are some cold hard Ameri-facts for you:\n
      \n
      - Having 2 dominant political parties is a reflection of **how our political systems have been designed at almost every level** (federal, state, local). American politics is very much based on first-past-the-post, winner-takes-all elections. These kinds of election systems are terrible for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is the very real problem of [vote splitting and the spoiler effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_splitting#%22Spoiler_effect%22)--leading to "third parties" which are almost all unserious, nonviable, and potentially backed by people with ulterior motives. The vast majority of the time, voting for a third party candidate in America is simply throwing your vote away and is effectively the same as not voting. (Even as a "protest", it's not a very good one, because it's never clear what can be interpreted from why people vote the way they do.)\n
      \n
      The solution to this problem is changing how we run elections so that the most popular candidates are more likely to win, and so that people's individual votes are less likely to become nullified in various ways (like by voting for a statistically nonviable candidate, for one). I like **Ranked Choice Voting** and **STAR voting**, but just about anything is better than the way that most American elections currently work.\n
      \n
      - Even in a hypothetical future where we have 10 viable parties (and more democratic voting systems), no political party is going to "give a fuck about you" as an individual. Republicans, Democrats, Greens, Libertarians, Vegetarians, Librarians, and whatever other parties spring up. The truth is, they *all* only give a fuck about getting your vote, so that they can get in a position of political power to do the things that they and their influential backers want (all the while reaping the benefits of doing so). There is no political party on Earth that is in it for the benefit of all of mankind--they all have some kind of agenda and ideology that they want to put in place.\n
      \n
      In that way American politics is like a tug of war, we current have 2 viable parties, one pulling the rope to the left and another pulling the rope to the right. You can spend as much time as you want lamenting where the rope currently is compared to where you would like it to be. But if you want the rope to move left, it makes sense to join the left side. And if you want the rope to move right, it makes sense to join the right side. Sitting out just makes it easier for the "other side" to make "progress". Having more parties doesn't really change that, it just turns a 1-dimensional battle into an n-dimensional battle.\n
      \n
      The biggest benefit that comes from having multiple (viable) political parties is increased competition of ideas. But again, America truly require huge *systemic* changes to how we run elections to make that a reality.\n
      \n
      I'm going to be voting for the party that more closely aligns with the *direction* that I want the country to move in. It's the only smart move in the game of American politics.
      """
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"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
176 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#5108
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      +description: """
        Community rules\n
        ---------------\n
        \n
        1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
        \n
        2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
        \n
        3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
        \n
        4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
        \n
        5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
        \n
        \n
        \n
        Sister communities\n
        ------------------\n
        \n
        - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
        - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
        - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
        - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
        """
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    +body: "EDIT: To the people downvoting this post because democrats > republicans: you’re missing the point."
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      Here are some cold hard Ameri-facts for you:\n
      \n
      - Having 2 dominant political parties is a reflection of **how our political systems have been designed at almost every level** (federal, state, local). American politics is very much based on first-past-the-post, winner-takes-all elections. These kinds of election systems are terrible for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is the very real problem of [vote splitting and the spoiler effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_splitting#%22Spoiler_effect%22)--leading to "third parties" which are almost all unserious, nonviable, and potentially backed by people with ulterior motives. The vast majority of the time, voting for a third party candidate in America is simply throwing your vote away and is effectively the same as not voting. (Even as a "protest", it's not a very good one, because it's never clear what can be interpreted from why people vote the way they do.)\n
      \n
      The solution to this problem is changing how we run elections so that the most popular candidates are more likely to win, and so that people's individual votes are less likely to become nullified in various ways (like by voting for a statistically nonviable candidate, for one). I like **Ranked Choice Voting** and **STAR voting**, but just about anything is better than the way that most American elections currently work.\n
      \n
      - Even in a hypothetical future where we have 10 viable parties (and more democratic voting systems), no political party is going to "give a fuck about you" as an individual. Republicans, Democrats, Greens, Libertarians, Vegetarians, Librarians, and whatever other parties spring up. The truth is, they *all* only give a fuck about getting your vote, so that they can get in a position of political power to do the things that they and their influential backers want (all the while reaping the benefits of doing so). There is no political party on Earth that is in it for the benefit of all of mankind--they all have some kind of agenda and ideology that they want to put in place.\n
      \n
      In that way American politics is like a tug of war, we current have 2 viable parties, one pulling the rope to the left and another pulling the rope to the right. You can spend as much time as you want lamenting where the rope currently is compared to where you would like it to be. But if you want the rope to move left, it makes sense to join the left side. And if you want the rope to move right, it makes sense to join the right side. Sitting out just makes it easier for the "other side" to make "progress". Having more parties doesn't really change that, it just turns a 1-dimensional battle into an n-dimensional battle.\n
      \n
      The biggest benefit that comes from having multiple (viable) political parties is increased competition of ideas. But again, America truly require huge *systemic* changes to how we run elections to make that a reality.\n
      \n
      I'm going to be voting for the party that more closely aligns with the *direction* that I want the country to move in. It's the only smart move in the game of American politics.
      """
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  +body: "Librarians lmao"
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    "@donuts@kbin.social"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#5102 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#5100 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#5104 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#5115 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#5117 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#5119 …}
  -id: 100704
  -bodyTs: "'librarian':1 'lmao':2"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://feddit.de/comment/4613985"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699411146 {#5112
    date: 2023-11-08 03:39:06.0 +01:00
  }
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
177 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\Magazine {#265
  +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#246 …}
  +name: "memes@lemmy.world"
  +title: "memes"
  +description: """
    Community rules\n
    ---------------\n
    \n
    1. Be civilNo trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour\n
    \n
    2. No politicsThis is non-politics community. For political memes please go to [!politicalmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes)\n
    \n
    3. No recent repostsCheck for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month\n
    \n
    4. No botsNo bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins\n
    \n
    5. No Spam/AdsNo advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.\n
    \n
    \n
    \n
    Sister communities\n
    ------------------\n
    \n
    - [!tenforward@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/tenforward) : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts\n
    - [!lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/lemmyshitpost) : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.\n
    - [!linuxmemes@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/linuxmemes) : Linux themed memes\n
    - [!comicstrips@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/comicstrips) : for those who love comic stories.
    """
  +rules: null
  +subscriptionsCount: 1
  +entryCount: 1112
  +entryCommentCount: 22597
  +postCount: 0
  +postCommentCount: 0
  +isAdult: false
  +customCss: null
  +lastActive: DateTime @1729581796 {#275
    date: 2024-10-22 09:23:16.0 +02:00
  }
  +markedForDeletionAt: null
  +tags: null
  +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#237 …}
  +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#233 …}
  +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#222 …}
  +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#180 …}
  +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#138 …}
  +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#200 …}
  +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#117 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#103 …}
  +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#81 …}
  +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#71 …}
  +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1346 …}
  +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1823 …}
  -id: 78
  +apId: "memes@lemmy.world"
  +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes"
  +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes"
  +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/memes/followers"
  +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
  +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
  +apPreferredUsername: "memes"
  +apDiscoverable: true
  +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
  +privateKey: null
  +publicKey: null
  +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728743545 {#269
    date: 2024-10-12 16:32:25.0 +02:00
  }
  +apDeletedAt: null
  +apTimeoutAt: null
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699084255 {#271
    date: 2023-11-04 08:50:55.0 +01:00
  }
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details