GET https://kbin.spritesserver.nl/index.php/m/asklemmy@lemmy.world/t/30602/Why-in-the-year-2024-and-with-all-the-knowledge/comment/312133/votes/up

Response
200 OK
IP
216.73.216.57
Profiled on
Token
d7991a

Security

Token

There is no security token.

Firewall

main Name
Security enabled
Stateless

Configuration

Key Value
provider security.user.provider.concrete.app_user_provider
context main
entry_point App\Security\KbinAuthenticator
user_checker App\Security\UserChecker
access_denied_handler (none)
access_denied_url (none)
authenticators 
[
  "two_factor"
  "remember_me"
  "App\Security\KbinAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\FacebookAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\GoogleAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\GithubAuthenticator"
  "App\Security\KeycloakAuthenticator"
]

Listeners

Listener Duration Response 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ChannelListener {#723
  -map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …}
  -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …}
  -httpPort: 80
  -httpsPort: 443
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\ContextListener {#706
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\TokenStorage {#1017 …}
  -sessionKey: "_security_main"
  -logger: Monolog\Logger {#783 …}
  -userProviders: Symfony\Component\DependencyInjection\Argument\RewindableGenerator {#705 …}
  -dispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …}
  -registered: false
  -trustResolver: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authentication\AuthenticationTrustResolver {#780 …}
  -sessionTrackerEnabler: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage::enableUsageTracking(): void {#703 …}
}
 0.73 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AuthenticatorManagerListener {#584
  -authenticatorManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Authentication\AuthenticatorManager {#595 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Http\Firewall\TwoFactorAccessListener {#582
  -twoFactorFirewallConfig: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\TwoFactor\TwoFactorFirewallConfig {#842 …}
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -twoFactorAccessDecider: Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\TwoFactorAccessDecider {#581 …}
}
 0.04 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\AccessListener {#579
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -accessDecisionManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\TraceableAccessDecisionManager {#937 …}
  -map: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\AccessMap {#722 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none) 
Symfony\Component\Security\Http\Firewall\LogoutListener {#786
  -tokenStorage: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authentication\Token\Storage\UsageTrackingTokenStorage {#1018 …}
  -options: [
    "csrf_parameter" => "_csrf_token"
    "csrf_token_id" => "logout"
    "logout_path" => "app_logout"
  ]
  -httpUtils: Symfony\Component\Security\Http\HttpUtils {#841 …}
  -csrfTokenManager: Symfony\Component\Security\Csrf\CsrfTokenManager {#1015 …}
  -eventDispatcher: Symfony\Component\EventDispatcher\Debug\TraceableEventDispatcher {#747 …}
}
 0.00 ms (none)

Authenticators

No authenticators have been recorded. Check previous profiles on your authentication endpoint.

Access Decision

affirmative Strategy
# Voter class
1 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\AuthenticatedVoter"
2 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
3 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
4 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\ExpressionVoter"
5 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
6 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
7 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
8 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
9 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
10 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
11 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
12 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
13 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
14 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"

Access decision log

# Result Attributes Object
1 DENIED ROLE_USER 
null
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\Voter\RoleHierarchyVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
2 DENIED moderate 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1366
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1378 …}
  +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#1856 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#312
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#293 …}
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      A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
      -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      **Rules: (interactive)**\n
      ------------------------\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
      \n
      Partnered Communities:\n
      ----------------------\n
      \n
      [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
      """
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    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#284 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#280 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#269 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#227 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#185 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#247 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#164 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#150 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#128 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#118 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#107 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#94 …}
    -id: 49
    +apId: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmy"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmy"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmy/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
    +apPreferredUsername: "asklemmy"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1729583301 {#321
      date: 2024-10-22 09:48:21.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697177027 {#315
      date: 2023-10-13 08:03:47.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2356 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2476 …}
  +body: """
    You’re very focused on religion and seem to be missing all of the points about logic.\n
    \n
    > not saying that … pretty agnostic\n
    \n
    Cool, we’re on the same page.\n
    \n
    > If someone makes a claim… it needs… evidence\n
    \n
    This is problematic without a rigorous definition of evidence. I’m assuming you mean something along the lines of repeatable and independently verifiable since you won’t take a claim at face value. If you’re going to rigorously define evidence, you’re going to need to create a system that can’t contradict itself. Per your quotes, either there is a ball in my hand or there isn’t.\n
    \n
    This is called [a consistent system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistency). We agree on a set of axioms that we will achieve results from. If we have a consistent system and build a bunch of results on top of that, eventually we’ll run into things that are true but we cannot prove. We know this [because of a famous result I’ve already mentioned](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems). In other words, we must take central results on faith. A common one that, several decades ago, was met with ridicule because it was “so illogical” mathematicians had “suspend reality in order for it to make any sense” is [the axiom of choice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_choice).\n
    \n
    In other words, you can’t use logic and reason to say those that believe in religion are idiots because you have just as much proof as they do (just faith) if we accept the basic axioms that drive our logical system.\n
    \n
    > doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist… isn’t circular logic\n
    \n
    You’re conflating [a tautology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic)) with [circular reasoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning). Circular reasoning boils down to “A because B; B because A;” and you’ve said “A because A” without any support for A. The lack of something in your hand is not necessary and sufficient to prove the ball’s existence. The only claim we can make is that your hand is empty.\n
    \n
    Here is a metaphysical claim for you to chew on: it is possible to know whether or not it is possible to prove a claim.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 5
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1705361715 {#1769
    date: 2024-01-16 00:35:15.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
    "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
    "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
    "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2355 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2167 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2424 …}
  +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2440 …}
  +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2490 …}
  +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2409 …}
  -id: 312133
  -bodyTs: "'/wiki/axiom_of_choice).':219 '/wiki/circular_reasoning).':287 '/wiki/consistency).':116 '/wiki/g%c3%b6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems).':173 '/wiki/tautology_(logic))':281 'accept':253 'achiev':127 'agnost':22 'ago':190 'agre':118 'along':53 'alreadi':169 'assum':49 'axiom':123,214,256 'b':295,296 'ball':100,326 'basic':255 'believ':234 'boil':290 'build':137 'bunch':139 'call':110 'cannot':157 'central':180 'chew':349 'choic':216 'circular':272,283,288 'claim':34,67,331,345,365 'common':185 'conflat':276 'consist':112,134 'contradict':91 'cool':23 'creat':85 'decad':189 'defin':77 'definit':44 'doesn':262,267 'drive':258 'either':96 'empti':340 'en.wikipedia.org':115,172,218,280,286 'en.wikipedia.org/wiki/axiom_of_choice).':217 'en.wikipedia.org/wiki/circular_reasoning).':285 'en.wikipedia.org/wiki/consistency).':114 'en.wikipedia.org/wiki/g%c3%b6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems).':171 'en.wikipedia.org/wiki/tautology_(logic))':279 'eventu':146 'evid':37,46,78 'exist':264,269,328 'face':69 'faith':183,250 'famous':165 'focus':4 'go':74,81 'hand':103,317,338 'idiot':238 'illog':199 'independ':59 'isn':106,270 'know':160,355 'lack':312 'line':55 'll':148 'logic':17,227,260,273 'm':48 'make':32,209,334 'mathematician':200 'mean':51 'mention':170 'met':192 'metaphys':344 'miss':11 'much':244 'must':178 'necessari':320 'need':36,83 'one':186 'order':205 'page':29 'per':93 'point':15 'possibl':353,361 'pretti':21 'problemat':40 'proof':245 'prove':158,324,363 'quot':95 're':2,25,73,80,275 'realiti':203 'reason':229,284,289 'religion':6,236 'repeat':57 'result':128,141,166,181 'ridicul':194 'rigor':43,76 'run':149 'said':302 'say':19,231 'seem':8 'sens':211 'set':121 'sever':188 'sinc':61 'someon':31 'someth':52,314 'suffici':322 'support':308 'suspend':202 'system':87,113,135,261 'take':65,179 'tautolog':278 'thing':151 'top':143 'true':154 'use':226 'valu':70 've':168,301 'verifi':60 'whether':356 'without':41,306 'won':63 'word':176,222"
  +ranking: 0
  +commentCount: 0
  +upVotes: 0
  +downVotes: 0
  +visibility: "visible             "
  +apId: "https://programming.dev/comment/6494185"
  +editedAt: null
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705361715 {#1945
    date: 2024-01-16 00:35:15.0 +01:00
  }
}
 
"Scheb\TwoFactorBundle\Security\Authorization\Voter\TwoFactorInProgressVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryCommentVoter"
 ACCESS DENIED 
"App\Security\Voter\EntryVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MagazineVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageThreadVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\MessageVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\NotificationVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\OAuth2UserConsentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostCommentVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\PostVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN 
"App\Security\Voter\UserVoter"
 ACCESS ABSTAIN
Show voter details
3 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1366
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#1378 …}
  +entry: App\Entity\Entry {#1856 …}
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#312
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#293 …}
    +name: "asklemmy@lemmy.world"
    +title: "asklemmy"
    +description: """
      A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
      -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      **Rules: (interactive)**\n
      ------------------------\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      Reminder: The [terms of service](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/) apply here too.\n
      \n
      Partnered Communities:\n
      ----------------------\n
      \n
      [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 1
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    +lastActive: DateTime @1729583245 {#320
      date: 2024-10-22 09:47:25.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#284 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#280 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#269 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#227 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#185 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#247 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#164 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#150 …}
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    +apPreferredUsername: "asklemmy"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
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    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1729583301 {#321
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697177027 {#315
      date: 2023-10-13 08:03:47.0 +02:00
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  +image: null
  +parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2356 …}
  +root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2476 …}
  +body: """
    You’re very focused on religion and seem to be missing all of the points about logic.\n
    \n
    > not saying that … pretty agnostic\n
    \n
    Cool, we’re on the same page.\n
    \n
    > If someone makes a claim… it needs… evidence\n
    \n
    This is problematic without a rigorous definition of evidence. I’m assuming you mean something along the lines of repeatable and independently verifiable since you won’t take a claim at face value. If you’re going to rigorously define evidence, you’re going to need to create a system that can’t contradict itself. Per your quotes, either there is a ball in my hand or there isn’t.\n
    \n
    This is called [a consistent system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistency). We agree on a set of axioms that we will achieve results from. If we have a consistent system and build a bunch of results on top of that, eventually we’ll run into things that are true but we cannot prove. We know this [because of a famous result I’ve already mentioned](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems). In other words, we must take central results on faith. A common one that, several decades ago, was met with ridicule because it was “so illogical” mathematicians had “suspend reality in order for it to make any sense” is [the axiom of choice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_choice).\n
    \n
    In other words, you can’t use logic and reason to say those that believe in religion are idiots because you have just as much proof as they do (just faith) if we accept the basic axioms that drive our logical system.\n
    \n
    > doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist… isn’t circular logic\n
    \n
    You’re conflating [a tautology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic)) with [circular reasoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning). Circular reasoning boils down to “A because B; B because A;” and you’ve said “A because A” without any support for A. The lack of something in your hand is not necessary and sufficient to prove the ball’s existence. The only claim we can make is that your hand is empty.\n
    \n
    Here is a metaphysical claim for you to chew on: it is possible to know whether or not it is possible to prove a claim.
    """
  +lang: "en"
  +isAdult: false
  +favouriteCount: 5
  +score: 0
  +lastActive: DateTime @1705361715 {#1769
    date: 2024-01-16 00:35:15.0 +01:00
  }
  +ip: null
  +tags: null
  +mentions: [
    "@return2ozma@lemmy.world"
    "@whereBeWaldo@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
    "@Showroom7561@lemmy.ca"
    "@thesmokingman@programming.dev"
  ]
  +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2355 …}
  +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2167 …}
  +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2424 …}
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      A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions\n
      -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      **Rules: (interactive)**\n
      ------------------------\n
      \n
      ---\n
      \n
      1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. [Please familiarize yourself with them](https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/)\n
      \n
      ---\n
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      \n
      ---\n
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      4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [!asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmyafterdark) or [!asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com](https://lemmynsfw.com/c/asklemmynsfw). NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].\n
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      5) This is not a support community.It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to [Lemmy.world Support](https://lemmy.world/c/support) or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.\n
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      Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
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  +body: """
    You’re very focused on religion and seem to be missing all of the points about logic.\n
    \n
    > not saying that … pretty agnostic\n
    \n
    Cool, we’re on the same page.\n
    \n
    > If someone makes a claim… it needs… evidence\n
    \n
    This is problematic without a rigorous definition of evidence. I’m assuming you mean something along the lines of repeatable and independently verifiable since you won’t take a claim at face value. If you’re going to rigorously define evidence, you’re going to need to create a system that can’t contradict itself. Per your quotes, either there is a ball in my hand or there isn’t.\n
    \n
    This is called [a consistent system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistency). We agree on a set of axioms that we will achieve results from. If we have a consistent system and build a bunch of results on top of that, eventually we’ll run into things that are true but we cannot prove. We know this [because of a famous result I’ve already mentioned](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems). In other words, we must take central results on faith. A common one that, several decades ago, was met with ridicule because it was “so illogical” mathematicians had “suspend reality in order for it to make any sense” is [the axiom of choice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_choice).\n
    \n
    In other words, you can’t use logic and reason to say those that believe in religion are idiots because you have just as much proof as they do (just faith) if we accept the basic axioms that drive our logical system.\n
    \n
    > doesn’t exist because it doesn’t exist… isn’t circular logic\n
    \n
    You’re conflating [a tautology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic)) with [circular reasoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning). Circular reasoning boils down to “A because B; B because A;” and you’ve said “A because A” without any support for A. The lack of something in your hand is not necessary and sufficient to prove the ball’s existence. The only claim we can make is that your hand is empty.\n
    \n
    Here is a metaphysical claim for you to chew on: it is possible to know whether or not it is possible to prove a claim.
    """
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5 DENIED edit 
App\Entity\Magazine {#312
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    -----------------------------------------------------------------\n
    \n
    ---\n
    \n
    **Rules: (interactive)**\n
    ------------------------\n
    \n
    ---\n
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    ---\n
    \n
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    \n
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    \n
    [Tech Support](/c/techsupport@lemmy.world)\n
    \n
    [No Stupid Questions](/c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world)\n
    \n
    [You Should Know](/c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world)\n
    \n
    [Reddit](/c/reddit@lemmy.world)\n
    \n
    [Jokes](/c/jokes@lemmy.world)\n
    \n
    [Ask Ouija](/c/askouija@lemmy.world)\n
    \n
    ---\n
    \n
    Logo design credit goes to: [tubbadu](/u/tubbadu@lemmy.world)\n
    \n
    ---\n
    \n
    ![](https://img.shields.io/lemmy/asklemmy%40lemmy.world?logo=lemmy&label=Total%20Subscribers)
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