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DENIED
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ROLE_USER
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Show voter details
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| 2 |
DENIED
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moderate
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2259
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Garak might have had something to say about that.\n
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Show voter details
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| 3 |
DENIED
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edit
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2259
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Show voter details
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| 4 |
DENIED
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moderate
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2259
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…2
} |
|
Show voter details
|
| 5 |
DENIED
|
ROLE_USER
|
null |
|
Show voter details
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| 6 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2258
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|
Show voter details
|
| 7 |
DENIED
|
edit
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2258
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<https://heavy.com/entertainment/star-trek/garak-gay-deep-space-nine-behr/>
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|
Show voter details
|
| 8 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2258
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|
Show voter details
|
| 9 |
DENIED
|
ROLE_USER
|
null |
|
Show voter details
|
| 10 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2218
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> When I bought my laptop i was using windows and didn’t research Linux compatibility :(\n
\n
I apologize for my general grumpiness this morning. Totally reasonable. :-)\n
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Show voter details
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| 11 |
DENIED
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edit
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|
Show voter details
|
| 12 |
DENIED
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moderate
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2218
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> When I bought my laptop i was using windows and didn’t research Linux compatibility :(\n
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|
Show voter details
|
| 13 |
DENIED
|
ROLE_USER
|
null |
|
Show voter details
|
| 14 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2220
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> When I bought my laptop i was using windows and didn’t research Linux compatibility :(\n
\n
I apologize for my general grumpiness this morning. Totally reasonable. :-)\n
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> And yup. A decade ago was when Linux turned a corner on the wifi driver front, 11 years ago was hell\n
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Show voter details
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2220
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> And yup. A decade ago was when Linux turned a corner on the wifi driver front, 11 years ago was hell\n
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I lol'd. :-)
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Show voter details
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| 16 |
DENIED
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moderate
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2220
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> When I bought my laptop i was using windows and didn’t research Linux compatibility :(\n
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> And yup. A decade ago was when Linux turned a corner on the wifi driver front, 11 years ago was hell\n
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Show voter details
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| 17 |
DENIED
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ROLE_USER
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Show voter details
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| 18 |
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> When I bought my laptop i was using windows and didn’t research Linux compatibility :(\n
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I apologize for my general grumpiness this morning. Totally reasonable. :-)\n
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> And yup. A decade ago was when Linux turned a corner on the wifi driver front, 11 years ago was hell\n
\n
I lol'd. :-)
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Show voter details
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DENIED
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Show voter details
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| 21 |
DENIED
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ROLE_USER
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Show voter details
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> When I bought my laptop i was using windows and didn’t research Linux compatibility :(\n
\n
I apologize for my general grumpiness this morning. Totally reasonable. :-)\n
\n
> And yup. A decade ago was when Linux turned a corner on the wifi driver front, 11 years ago was hell\n
\n
I lol'd. :-)
"""
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Show voter details
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| 23 |
DENIED
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edit
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2190
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> When I bought my laptop i was using windows and didn’t research Linux compatibility :(\n
\n
I apologize for my general grumpiness this morning. Totally reasonable. :-)\n
\n
> And yup. A decade ago was when Linux turned a corner on the wifi driver front, 11 years ago was hell\n
\n
I lol'd. :-)
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Show voter details
|
| 24 |
DENIED
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moderate
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2190
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|
Show voter details
|
| 25 |
DENIED
|
ROLE_USER
|
null |
|
Show voter details
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| 26 |
DENIED
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moderate
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2291
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Show voter details
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| 27 |
DENIED
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edit
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2291
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Show voter details
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| 28 |
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moderate
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| 29 |
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| 30 |
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moderate
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293
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| 31 |
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edit
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293
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Show voter details
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| 32 |
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moderate
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2293
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|
Show voter details
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| 33 |
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ROLE_USER
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Show voter details
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| 34 |
DENIED
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moderate
|
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2313
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EDIT: I am thrilled with so many awesome responses! I’m taking notes and looking into all the recommendations. Again, thank you so much for taking the time to help me out (and many others, i’m sure), i’m glad i asked!\n
\n
Hi,\n
\n
I’m getting ready to switch to Linux. I’m looking for a kind of checklist of what to do beforehand. When i search online, there is a lot of advice on which distribution to choose and how to set it up, which i already know, but my question is the step before. I made a list of which programs i currently use (almost all have a linux variant or i can use them in the browser) and i am making screenshots of their settings. I have basically everything important backupped, both on my ProtonDrive and on a private server in the house. Is there anything else i need to prepare before switching? I wouldn’t want to overlook something.\n
\n
(I already have the distribution and am trying it out, but my plan is to actually install debian and without dual boot. Also, many, many years ago i already used debian but then i had the luxury of someone who basically arranged everything for me)\n
\n
Currently, i run windows 10 with Nvidia GeForce. I already am in the process of degoogling and de-microsofting so to speak, so i don’t use google drive or onedrive, or MS Office anymore (nor a lot of other things).\n
\n
Apologies if this is not appropriate for this community. Have a great day :-)
"""
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|
Show voter details
|
| 35 |
DENIED
|
edit
|
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2313
+user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2894 …}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2323 …}
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+body: """
EDIT: I am thrilled with so many awesome responses! I’m taking notes and looking into all the recommendations. Again, thank you so much for taking the time to help me out (and many others, i’m sure), i’m glad i asked!\n
\n
Hi,\n
\n
I’m getting ready to switch to Linux. I’m looking for a kind of checklist of what to do beforehand. When i search online, there is a lot of advice on which distribution to choose and how to set it up, which i already know, but my question is the step before. I made a list of which programs i currently use (almost all have a linux variant or i can use them in the browser) and i am making screenshots of their settings. I have basically everything important backupped, both on my ProtonDrive and on a private server in the house. Is there anything else i need to prepare before switching? I wouldn’t want to overlook something.\n
\n
(I already have the distribution and am trying it out, but my plan is to actually install debian and without dual boot. Also, many, many years ago i already used debian but then i had the luxury of someone who basically arranged everything for me)\n
\n
Currently, i run windows 10 with Nvidia GeForce. I already am in the process of degoogling and de-microsofting so to speak, so i don’t use google drive or onedrive, or MS Office anymore (nor a lot of other things).\n
\n
Apologies if this is not appropriate for this community. Have a great day :-)
"""
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Show voter details
|
| 36 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2313
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+url: null
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EDIT: I am thrilled with so many awesome responses! I’m taking notes and looking into all the recommendations. Again, thank you so much for taking the time to help me out (and many others, i’m sure), i’m glad i asked!\n
\n
Hi,\n
\n
I’m getting ready to switch to Linux. I’m looking for a kind of checklist of what to do beforehand. When i search online, there is a lot of advice on which distribution to choose and how to set it up, which i already know, but my question is the step before. I made a list of which programs i currently use (almost all have a linux variant or i can use them in the browser) and i am making screenshots of their settings. I have basically everything important backupped, both on my ProtonDrive and on a private server in the house. Is there anything else i need to prepare before switching? I wouldn’t want to overlook something.\n
\n
(I already have the distribution and am trying it out, but my plan is to actually install debian and without dual boot. Also, many, many years ago i already used debian but then i had the luxury of someone who basically arranged everything for me)\n
\n
Currently, i run windows 10 with Nvidia GeForce. I already am in the process of degoogling and de-microsofting so to speak, so i don’t use google drive or onedrive, or MS Office anymore (nor a lot of other things).\n
\n
Apologies if this is not appropriate for this community. Have a great day :-)
"""
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|
Show voter details
|
| 37 |
DENIED
|
ROLE_USER
|
null |
|
Show voter details
|
| 38 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2318
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EDIT: I am thrilled with so many awesome responses! I’m taking notes and looking into all the recommendations. Again, thank you so much for taking the time to help me out (and many others, i’m sure), i’m glad i asked!\n
\n
Hi,\n
\n
I’m getting ready to switch to Linux. I’m looking for a kind of checklist of what to do beforehand. When i search online, there is a lot of advice on which distribution to choose and how to set it up, which i already know, but my question is the step before. I made a list of which programs i currently use (almost all have a linux variant or i can use them in the browser) and i am making screenshots of their settings. I have basically everything important backupped, both on my ProtonDrive and on a private server in the house. Is there anything else i need to prepare before switching? I wouldn’t want to overlook something.\n
\n
(I already have the distribution and am trying it out, but my plan is to actually install debian and without dual boot. Also, many, many years ago i already used debian but then i had the luxury of someone who basically arranged everything for me)\n
\n
Currently, i run windows 10 with Nvidia GeForce. I already am in the process of degoogling and de-microsofting so to speak, so i don’t use google drive or onedrive, or MS Office anymore (nor a lot of other things).\n
\n
Apologies if this is not appropriate for this community. Have a great day :-)
"""
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Show voter details
|
| 39 |
DENIED
|
edit
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2318
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
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+title: "Noob question: what to arrange before switching to linux"
+url: null
+body: """
EDIT: I am thrilled with so many awesome responses! I’m taking notes and looking into all the recommendations. Again, thank you so much for taking the time to help me out (and many others, i’m sure), i’m glad i asked!\n
\n
Hi,\n
\n
I’m getting ready to switch to Linux. I’m looking for a kind of checklist of what to do beforehand. When i search online, there is a lot of advice on which distribution to choose and how to set it up, which i already know, but my question is the step before. I made a list of which programs i currently use (almost all have a linux variant or i can use them in the browser) and i am making screenshots of their settings. I have basically everything important backupped, both on my ProtonDrive and on a private server in the house. Is there anything else i need to prepare before switching? I wouldn’t want to overlook something.\n
\n
(I already have the distribution and am trying it out, but my plan is to actually install debian and without dual boot. Also, many, many years ago i already used debian but then i had the luxury of someone who basically arranged everything for me)\n
\n
Currently, i run windows 10 with Nvidia GeForce. I already am in the process of degoogling and de-microsofting so to speak, so i don’t use google drive or onedrive, or MS Office anymore (nor a lot of other things).\n
\n
Apologies if this is not appropriate for this community. Have a great day :-)
"""
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} |
|
Show voter details
|
| 40 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2318
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2313
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+title: "Noob question: what to arrange before switching to linux"
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EDIT: I am thrilled with so many awesome responses! I’m taking notes and looking into all the recommendations. Again, thank you so much for taking the time to help me out (and many others, i’m sure), i’m glad i asked!\n
\n
Hi,\n
\n
I’m getting ready to switch to Linux. I’m looking for a kind of checklist of what to do beforehand. When i search online, there is a lot of advice on which distribution to choose and how to set it up, which i already know, but my question is the step before. I made a list of which programs i currently use (almost all have a linux variant or i can use them in the browser) and i am making screenshots of their settings. I have basically everything important backupped, both on my ProtonDrive and on a private server in the house. Is there anything else i need to prepare before switching? I wouldn’t want to overlook something.\n
\n
(I already have the distribution and am trying it out, but my plan is to actually install debian and without dual boot. Also, many, many years ago i already used debian but then i had the luxury of someone who basically arranged everything for me)\n
\n
Currently, i run windows 10 with Nvidia GeForce. I already am in the process of degoogling and de-microsofting so to speak, so i don’t use google drive or onedrive, or MS Office anymore (nor a lot of other things).\n
\n
Apologies if this is not appropriate for this community. Have a great day :-)
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| 49 |
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| 51 |
DENIED
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edit
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2073
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Show voter details
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| 52 |
DENIED
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moderate
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| 53 |
DENIED
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Show voter details
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| 54 |
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moderate
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Show voter details
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| 55 |
DENIED
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edit
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2137
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|
Show voter details
|
| 56 |
DENIED
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moderate
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2137
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+body: "I'm partial to midnight commander but admit I haven't used it in a couple of years."
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2333
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+slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
+title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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+body: """
Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
\n
This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
\n
Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
\n
##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
\n
- *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
- *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
- *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
- *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
\n
…*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
\n
In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
\n
As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
\n
Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
\n
And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
\n
As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
\n
Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
- *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
- *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
- *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
- *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
- *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
\n
Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
\n
- *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
- *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
\n
Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
\n
- *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
- *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
- *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
- *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
- *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
\n
Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
\n
DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
\n
Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
\n
As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
- *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
- *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
\n
Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
- *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
- *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
- *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
- *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
- *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
- *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
- *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
- *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
- *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
- *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
- *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
\n
And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
"""
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No problem, I've done no magic of any kind there. This is what the manjaro installer created only.\n
\n
> > cat /proc/cmdline\n
> > \n
> > BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-6.1-x86_64 root=UUID=99ed8aec-cdfc-44d6-8217-c85d3db09036 rw quiet cryptdevice=UUID=9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8:luks-9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8 root=/dev/mapper/luks-9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8 udev.log_priority=3
"""
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Worked with no drama, for me at least. Hooked it to my TV because that was most convenient. USB-C to HDMI adapter, I just had to tell it where they were in relation to each other and set scaling on the TV. Fonts look a little screwy on that dialogue box, but only in the screenshot - and when composing this post I realized even there they look OK if I don't view that part of the screenshot on the 4K display.\n
\n
Edit: No, untrue. I think I had the wrong glasses on. The fonts on the 1080p display are fine in reality, but the screenshot is distorting everything on that panel a bit. Again, screenshot only though. All good otherwise. I can't see any other problem after using it a bit like this though.
"""
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+body: "I'm fairly sure I have run this system dual-monitor though I don't do it routinely. I'll check sometime this weekend and let you know, if you are interested for comparison's sake."
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date: 2023-11-20 18:44:08.0 +01:00
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+slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
+title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
\n
This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
\n
Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
\n
##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
\n
- *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
- *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
- *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
- *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
\n
…*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
\n
In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
\n
As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
\n
Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
\n
And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
\n
As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
\n
Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
- *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
- *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
- *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
- *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
- *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
\n
Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
\n
- *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
- *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
\n
Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
\n
- *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
- *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
- *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
- *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
- *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
\n
Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
\n
DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
\n
Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
\n
As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
- *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
- *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
\n
Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
- *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
- *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
- *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
- *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
- *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
- *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
- *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
- *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
- *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
- *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
- *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
\n
And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
"""
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3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101
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No problem, I've done no magic of any kind there. This is what the manjaro installer created only.\n
\n
> > cat /proc/cmdline\n
> > \n
> > BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-6.1-x86_64 root=UUID=99ed8aec-cdfc-44d6-8217-c85d3db09036 rw quiet cryptdevice=UUID=9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8:luks-9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8 root=/dev/mapper/luks-9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8 udev.log_priority=3
"""
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date: 2023-11-18 21:02:56.0 +01:00
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"@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social"
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date: 2023-11-18 21:02:56.0 +01:00
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1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123
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+body: "No problem, if there's anything else that could help you to troubleshoot on your end let me know."
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date: 2023-11-19 01:11:54.0 +01:00
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}
2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2333 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2323 …}
+image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2057 …}
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2050 …}
+root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300 …}
+body: """
Worked with no drama, for me at least. Hooked it to my TV because that was most convenient. USB-C to HDMI adapter, I just had to tell it where they were in relation to each other and set scaling on the TV. Fonts look a little screwy on that dialogue box, but only in the screenshot - and when composing this post I realized even there they look OK if I don't view that part of the screenshot on the 4K display.\n
\n
Edit: No, untrue. I think I had the wrong glasses on. The fonts on the 1080p display are fine in reality, but the screenshot is distorting everything on that panel a bit. Again, screenshot only though. All good otherwise. I can't see any other problem after using it a bit like this though.
"""
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"@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social"
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date: 2023-11-22 13:44:59.0 +01:00
}
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date: 2023-11-18 20:08:29.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 137649
}
0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2329
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2333 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2323 …}
+image: null
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324 …}
+root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300 …}
+body: "I'm fairly sure I have run this system dual-monitor though I don't do it routinely. I'll check sometime this weekend and let you know, if you are interested for comparison's sake."
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"@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social"
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]
+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2334 …}
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date: 2023-11-17 19:27:47.0 +01:00
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]
-id: 13812
-titleTs: "'articl':7 'boycott':5 'respons':2 'wayland':6"
-bodyTs: "'-1':1800 '/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227':5 '/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)':1605 '/etc/os-release':571 '/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)':8 '/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)':996 '/usr/bin/wayland':152 '1':300,731,1798 '10':410 '2':307,734,1463 '2019':1257 '2024':981 '3':723 '4.20':984 '8':1625 '99':1748 'abandon':50 'absolut':147 'activ':1897 'adjust':883 'admit':1142 'agenda':1220 'allow':136,918,929 'alot':464 'alreadi':1427,1506 'also':239,808,993,1692,1760 'altern':895,1331,1347,1693 'alway':847 'amd':1035,1058 'announc':1417 'anymor':1893 'anyth':264,648,1886,1992 'anywher':962 'ao':1568 'api':618 'app':1846 'appar':1020 'appimag':665,791,818 'applic':111,258,270,365,371,446,460,526,602,685,699,863,950,1127,1646,1824 'appreci':2020 'arbirtrari':606 'argument':1155,1742 'articl':3,11,92,518,661,812,869,1140,1223,1372,1535,1918,1965,1979 'askpass':1703 'assum':775,1097,1571,1736,1883,1938 'atom':1727 'attempt':1508 'autom':675 'automat':826 'avoid':179 'awar':450 'away':1550 'awesom':1490 'awesomewm':1483 'back':503,976,2014 'backend':473 'base':1980 'basic':1587 'becom':425,1777 'better':1766,1768,1778 'bias':1149 'biggest':1477 'bill':1811 'boom':951 'bother':645 'break':362,523,674,790,836,899,1153,1232,1276,1289,1298,1554,1607,1635,1701,1725,1744,1785,1815,1855,1865,1889,1901,1927,1941,1951 'brodi':505 'broken':98,1585 'bsd':1154 'budgi':1409 'built':58,374,842 'bunch':163 'busi':395 'bwing':74 'call':1450,1459,1466 'cannot':128 'case':1576,1863,1949,1960 'challeng':1503 'chang':266,470,570,1593 'choos':941 'cinnamon':1408 'clear':562,566 'clipboard':1699 'close':1240 'closer':1009 'code':1396 'color':885,1890 'colour':860 'come':404,975 'comment':559,1112,1689 'compar':1781 'complet':768 'complex':1391 'complic':1201 'compon':84 'compositor':115,122,213,244,279,339,857,1186,1923 'conclud':1974 'confirm':1063 'consid':752,1068 'control':862 'convinc':33 'cooler':1517 'correct':366,783,1163,1920,2012 'couldn':642 'cours':1317,1655,1827 'crash':102 'cross':1136 'cruft':249 'current':599,1375 'd':1334 'de':299,306 'debian':436,575 'decid':387 'decor':1204 'default':433 'defenc':413 'deni':1065 'depend':1280 'des':1380,1403 'describ':1295 'design':100,920 'desktop':625,1968 'dev':416,1441,1491 'develop':144,259,591 'differ':278 'difficulti':1264 'disabl':1752 'discuss':1267 'doc':1592 'doesn':301,312,702,845,956,1649 'driver':1027,1071 'drm':1902 'drop':766,1456 'drop-in':1455 'dwl':1451 'dwm':1445 'edit':1102,1177,1577,1680 'effici':235 'effort':73 'either':393,1416 'els':963,1887 'enforc':587 'enlighten':1410 'enough':399,427,1770 'especi':851 'even':434,1383,1413 'everi':709 'evid':2017 'evidenc':1510 'exist':708,1513 'face':681 'fact':1343,1580 'fade':1549 'fair':1983 'fallback':827 'familiar':1907,1933 'fan':27 'far':965 'featur':318,331,1402 'fedora':762 'file':1969 'fit':177,1809 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+cross: false
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+downVotes: 0
+ranking: 1700305796
+visibility: "visible "
+apId: "https://feddit.uk/post/4608014"
+editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700502248 {#2522
date: 2023-11-20 18:44:08.0 +01:00
}
+createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700219396 {#2498
date: 2023-11-17 12:09:56.0 +01:00
}
+__isInitialized__: true
…2
} |
|
Show voter details
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| 60 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2333
+user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2519 …}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2323 …}
+image: null
+domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2555 …}
+slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
+title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
+url: null
+body: """
Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
\n
This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
\n
Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
\n
##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
\n
- *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
- *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
- *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
- *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
\n
…*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
\n
In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
\n
As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
\n
Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
\n
And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
\n
As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
\n
Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
- *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
- *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
- *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
- *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
- *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
\n
Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
\n
- *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
- *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
\n
Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
\n
- *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
- *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
- *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
- *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
- *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
\n
Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
\n
DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
\n
Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
\n
As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
- *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
- *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
\n
Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
- *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
- *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
- *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
- *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
- *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
- *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
- *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
- *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
- *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
- *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
- *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
\n
And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
"""
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No problem, I've done no magic of any kind there. This is what the manjaro installer created only.\n
\n
> > cat /proc/cmdline\n
> > \n
> > BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-6.1-x86_64 root=UUID=99ed8aec-cdfc-44d6-8217-c85d3db09036 rw quiet cryptdevice=UUID=9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8:luks-9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8 root=/dev/mapper/luks-9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8 udev.log_priority=3
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Worked with no drama, for me at least. Hooked it to my TV because that was most convenient. USB-C to HDMI adapter, I just had to tell it where they were in relation to each other and set scaling on the TV. Fonts look a little screwy on that dialogue box, but only in the screenshot - and when composing this post I realized even there they look OK if I don't view that part of the screenshot on the 4K display.\n
\n
Edit: No, untrue. I think I had the wrong glasses on. The fonts on the 1080p display are fine in reality, but the screenshot is distorting everything on that panel a bit. Again, screenshot only though. All good otherwise. I can't see any other problem after using it a bit like this though.
"""
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101
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+slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
+title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
\n
This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
\n
Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
\n
##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
\n
- *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
- *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
- *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
- *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
\n
…*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
\n
In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
\n
As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
\n
Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
\n
And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
\n
As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
\n
Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
- *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
- *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
- *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
- *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
- *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
\n
Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
\n
- *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
- *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
\n
Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
\n
- *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
- *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
- *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
- *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
- *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
\n
Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
\n
DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
\n
Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
\n
As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
- *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
- *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
\n
Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
- *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
- *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
- *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
- *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
- *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
- *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
- *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
- *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
- *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
- *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
- *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
\n
And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
"""
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date: 2023-11-19 01:11:54.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 138490
}
2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2333 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2323 …}
+image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2057 …}
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2050 …}
+root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300 …}
+body: """
Worked with no drama, for me at least. Hooked it to my TV because that was most convenient. USB-C to HDMI adapter, I just had to tell it where they were in relation to each other and set scaling on the TV. Fonts look a little screwy on that dialogue box, but only in the screenshot - and when composing this post I realized even there they look OK if I don't view that part of the screenshot on the 4K display.\n
\n
Edit: No, untrue. I think I had the wrong glasses on. The fonts on the 1080p display are fine in reality, but the screenshot is distorting everything on that panel a bit. Again, screenshot only though. All good otherwise. I can't see any other problem after using it a bit like this though.
"""
+lang: "en"
+isAdult: false
+favouriteCount: 1
+score: 0
+lastActive: DateTime @1700334509 {#2059
date: 2023-11-18 20:08:29.0 +01:00
}
+ip: null
+tags: null
+mentions: [
"@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
"@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social"
"@PseudoSpock@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
]
+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2055 …}
+nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2054 …}
+votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2053 …}
+reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2165 …}
+favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2104 …}
+notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2099 …}
-id: 137649
-bodyTs: "'1080p':100 '4k':83 'adapt':24 'bit':116,135 'box':53 'c':21 'compos':61 'conveni':18 'dialogu':52 'display':84,101 'distort':110 'drama':4 'edit':85 'even':66 'everyth':111 'fine':103 'font':45,97 'glass':94 'good':122 'hdmi':23 'hook':9 'least':8 'like':136 'littl':48 'look':46,69 'ok':70 'otherwis':123 'panel':114 'part':77 'post':63 'problem':130 'realiti':105 'realiz':65 'relat':35 'scale':41 'screenshot':58,80,108,118 'screwi':49 'see':127 'set':40 'tell':29 'think':89 'though':120,138 'tv':13,44 'untru':87 'usb':20 'usb-c':19 'use':132 'view':75 'work':1 'wrong':93"
+ranking: 0
+commentCount: 0
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+visibility: "visible "
+apId: "https://kbin.social/m/linux@lemmy.ml/t/634287/-/comment/3641260"
+editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700657099 {#2046
date: 2023-11-22 13:44:59.0 +01:00
}
+createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700334509 {#2047
date: 2023-11-18 20:08:29.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 137649
}
0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2329
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2333 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2323 …}
+image: null
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324 …}
+root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300 …}
+body: "I'm fairly sure I have run this system dual-monitor though I don't do it routinely. I'll check sometime this weekend and let you know, if you are interested for comparison's sake."
+lang: "en"
+isAdult: false
+favouriteCount: 0
+score: 0
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date: 2023-11-17 19:27:47.0 +01:00
}
+ip: null
+tags: null
+mentions: [
"@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
"@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social"
"@PseudoSpock@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
]
+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2334 …}
+nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2341 …}
+votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2337 …}
+reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2336 …}
+favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2339 …}
+notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2159 …}
-id: 134285
-bodyTs: "'check':22 'comparison':35 'dual':11 'dual-monitor':10 'fair':3 'interest':33 'know':29 'let':27 'll':21 'm':2 'monitor':12 'routin':19 'run':7 'sake':37 'sometim':23 'sure':4 'system':9 'though':13 'weekend':25"
+ranking: 0
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+downVotes: 0
+visibility: "visible "
+apId: "https://kbin.social/m/linux@lemmy.ml/t/634287/-/comment/3622693"
+editedAt: null
+createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700245667 {#2327
date: 2023-11-17 19:27:47.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 134285
}
]
-id: 13812
-titleTs: "'articl':7 'boycott':5 'respons':2 'wayland':6"
-bodyTs: "'-1':1800 '/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227':5 '/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)':1605 '/etc/os-release':571 '/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)':8 '/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)':996 '/usr/bin/wayland':152 '1':300,731,1798 '10':410 '2':307,734,1463 '2019':1257 '2024':981 '3':723 '4.20':984 '8':1625 '99':1748 'abandon':50 'absolut':147 'activ':1897 'adjust':883 'admit':1142 'agenda':1220 'allow':136,918,929 'alot':464 'alreadi':1427,1506 'also':239,808,993,1692,1760 'altern':895,1331,1347,1693 'alway':847 'amd':1035,1058 'announc':1417 'anymor':1893 'anyth':264,648,1886,1992 'anywher':962 'ao':1568 'api':618 'app':1846 'appar':1020 'appimag':665,791,818 'applic':111,258,270,365,371,446,460,526,602,685,699,863,950,1127,1646,1824 'appreci':2020 'arbirtrari':606 'argument':1155,1742 'articl':3,11,92,518,661,812,869,1140,1223,1372,1535,1918,1965,1979 'askpass':1703 'assum':775,1097,1571,1736,1883,1938 'atom':1727 'attempt':1508 'autom':675 'automat':826 'avoid':179 'awar':450 'away':1550 'awesom':1490 'awesomewm':1483 'back':503,976,2014 'backend':473 'base':1980 'basic':1587 'becom':425,1777 'better':1766,1768,1778 'bias':1149 'biggest':1477 'bill':1811 'boom':951 'bother':645 'break':362,523,674,790,836,899,1153,1232,1276,1289,1298,1554,1607,1635,1701,1725,1744,1785,1815,1855,1865,1889,1901,1927,1941,1951 'brodi':505 'broken':98,1585 'bsd':1154 'budgi':1409 'built':58,374,842 'bunch':163 'busi':395 'bwing':74 'call':1450,1459,1466 'cannot':128 'case':1576,1863,1949,1960 'challeng':1503 'chang':266,470,570,1593 'choos':941 'cinnamon':1408 'clear':562,566 'clipboard':1699 'close':1240 'closer':1009 'code':1396 'color':885,1890 'colour':860 'come':404,975 'comment':559,1112,1689 'compar':1781 'complet':768 'complex':1391 'complic':1201 'compon':84 'compositor':115,122,213,244,279,339,857,1186,1923 'conclud':1974 'confirm':1063 'consid':752,1068 'control':862 'convinc':33 'cooler':1517 'correct':366,783,1163,1920,2012 'couldn':642 'cours':1317,1655,1827 'crash':102 'cross':1136 'cruft':249 'current':599,1375 'd':1334 'de':299,306 'debian':436,575 'decid':387 'decor':1204 'default':433 'defenc':413 'deni':1065 'depend':1280 'des':1380,1403 'describ':1295 'design':100,920 'desktop':625,1968 'dev':416,1441,1491 'develop':144,259,591 'differ':278 'difficulti':1264 'disabl':1752 'discuss':1267 'doc':1592 'doesn':301,312,702,845,956,1649 'driver':1027,1071 'drm':1902 'drop':766,1456 'drop-in':1455 'dwl':1451 'dwm':1445 'edit':1102,1177,1577,1680 'effici':235 'effort':73 'either':393,1416 'els':963,1887 'enforc':587 'enlighten':1410 'enough':399,427,1770 'especi':851 'even':434,1383,1413 'everi':709 'evid':2017 'evidenc':1510 'exist':708,1513 'face':681 'fact':1343,1580 'fade':1549 'fair':1983 'fallback':827 'familiar':1907,1933 'fan':27 'far':965 'featur':318,331,1402 'fedora':762 'file':1969 'fit':177,1809 'fix':781,1101,1260,1274 'follow':368,1265 'forese':1175 'freebsd':26,68,1188 'full':18 'function':1366 'futur':1176 'game':1745 'gamer':1759 'gammastep':897 'gave':481 'get':12,910,1008,1765 'gist.github.com':4,7 'gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)':6 'github.com':1604 'github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)':1603 'given':1388 'global':729,743,900,911 'gnome':286,543,615,651,726,733,1219,1404 'go':89 'got':1991 'graphic':472 'great':800 'guess':1161,1335,1629 'gui':1126 'guy':22 'happen':342,1670,1674 'hardwar':1004,1053,1123 'heard':710,1019,1078,1209 'hire':1439 'home':1930 'hope':1772 'hotkey':901,912 'howev':329,813 'hyprland':509,906,926 'i3':1452 'icewm':1539 'icon':1953 'ignor':1578 'implement':167,214,221,317,336,935,961,1362 'improv':1082 'in-hom':1928 'incred':757 'instert':1358 'integr':227 'intel':1052,1070,1086,1105,1122 'intend':1384 'introduc':987 'irrespons':398 'isn':48 'issu':181,554,597,655,724,777,1022,1118,1238,1713,1910 'jitsi':531 'jwm':1536 'kanshi':1353 'kde':350,728,736,763,1405 'keep':37,1006 'key':942 'keylogg':146 'keystrok':141 'know':669,741,968,1340,1564,1998 'knowledg':1730,1985,2004 'known':353 'kwin':360 'labwc':1467 'lack':1729 'last':654 'late':980 'lead':320 'lean':324 'leas':1903 'let':87,211,1996 'librari':86 'like':135,291,858,896,1167,1286,1348,1365,1548,1696 'limit':586,1984,2007 'link':1,550,1237,1583,1589,1602,1611,1705 'linux':60,82,1151,1601 'linux-specif':81 'littl':739 'll':1570 'look':1795 'lot':71,131 'm':448,462,787,1038,1056,1160,1325,1628,1747,1756,1804,1850 'made':283,695,1083 'main':1213 'make':45,143,253,421 'manag':106,120,197,231,1291,1310,1431,1891 'mani':172,438,452,1080,1081 'mark':1597,1619 'massiv':25 'mate':1406 'mayb':1848 'mean':240,704 'measur':924 'mention':1249,1532 'menus':730,744 'mess':184 'might':1192,1472 'mind':62 'minor':1377 'misrememb':1852 'miss':1480 'mode':832 'much':248 'multipl':220,1104 'must':1841 'name':715 'necessari':333 'necessarili':303 'need':314 'net':1555 'netwm/ewmh':1942 'new':255,381 'next':719 'nomachin':1608 'non':650 'non-gnom':649 'normal':916 'notic':1473 'noveau':1029 'nvidia':1003 'nx':1609 'ob':484,516 'obscur':1545 'offer':879 'offload':192 'often':352 'oftentim':310 'okay':1497 'one':256,672,1133,1165,1228,1474,1567 'open':547,1073 'openbox':1461 'openbsd':1197 'opinion':1044 'other':1199 'outdat':10,521 'page':1615 'pantheon':1414 'part':203 'pass':946 'peopl':35,1686 'perfect':496 'perform':237,1775,1779 'person':564,594 'plagu':187 'plasma':358,1875 'pleas':782,1994,1995 'plugin':799,804,824 'point':93,95,1108,1612,1682,1708,1723 'pointless':585,632 'posit':1869 'post':13,595 'prefer':2013 'present':903 'prevent':1125,1668 'probabl':418,779,1337 'problem':658,806,952 'program':841 'project':165,480,748,1531,1881 'proper':1001,1050 'proprietari':1026 'protocol':160,209,1253,1560 'proven':892 'pureo':573 'put':75,604,634 'qt':798 'qtile':1432 'quit':491,520,2006 'quot':809,870,1370 'raising/activating':1234 'randr':294,1351 're':1294,1665,1794 'read':556,626 'readi':349 'realis':401 'realli':262 'reason':51,1095,1833 'recent':1412 'record':364,370,512 'redshift':837,872,894 'releas':992,1622 'remain':1171 'rememb':713,1835 'replac':1458,1801 'requir':468,1357,1397 'rescuetim':1277,1279 'resolv':1245,1716 'respons':1976 'restrict':607,633 'rhat':1906 'robertson':506 'root':1131 'rumour':1042 'run':110,222,829,1129 'safe':773 'said':1493,1639,1962 'screen':363,369,524 'screensav':1856 'screenshar':609 'secur':923 'see':139,176,833,1721,2002 'seem':539,958,1114,1156,1181,1242,1520,1706,1859,1945,1956 'server':118,1202 'set':158,1866 'setter':867 'shame':1488 'share':525 'sheer':1390 'ship':795,802,820 'show':530 'side':1087,1203 'simultan':223 'sinc':877 'sire':463 'skip':1558 'skiptaskbar':1595 'small':1543 'smaller':479 'softwar':327,676 'solut':328,346,937,1146 'solv':807,953,1621,1633 'someon':1499 'someth':1214 'sometim':330 'soon':1769 'sort':458 'sourc':1074 'special':797 'specif':83,284,288 'spiritu':1448,1464 'stabl':426,758 'stand':1376 'start':1419,1423 'state':567,598,678,1224,1557 'still':1574 'stop':932 'stori':19 'stream':1931 'streamlin':326 'structur':206 'subpar':1774 'successor':1449,1465 'sudo':1702 'suffer':245 'support':376,875,989,1386,1399,1428,1924 'sure':46,422,1327,1749,1806,1877 'sway':1460 'take':107,1500 'task':1306 'taskbar':1559 'team':639 'temperatur':861,886 'term':443 'test':647 'thing':133,1089 'think':500,770,1091,1226,1270 'though':1830 'thus':178,233 'time':16,126,1256 'tool':1285,1302,1314 'topic':1733,1915,1988 'toward':1150 'tri':31,1666 'trivial':148 'true':308,890,1168,1195,1212,1230,1884,1939 'twm':1537 'understand':1912 'understood':476 'unfortun':954 'univers':345 'unless':280 'unmaintain':183 'unsupport':1599 'updat':529 'use':39,79,508,515,620,697,746,1034,1057,1971 'user':1106 'usual':341 'valid':1157,1741 'various':1305 've':1018,1077,1208 'version':1624 'video':514 'vsync':1753 'wallpap':866 'want':43,419,1437 'way':217,881,1516,1711 'way-cool':1515 'waybox':1469 'wayland':56,96,155,273,361,377,379,402,423,489,522,536,624,673,692,760,789,835,850,876,898,969,988,997,1046,1120,1124,1147,1185,1200,1231,1275,1288,1297,1323,1356,1387,1429,1553,1606,1634,1653,1661,1663,1700,1724,1743,1763,1784,1814,1840,1854,1864,1888,1900,1926,1940,1950 'well':226,750,1031,1787,1817 'wiki.xfce.org':995 'wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)':994 'window':105,119,137,196,230,1233,1290,1309,1430,1868,1952 'wine':1761 'wip':1252,1873 'without':69 'wl':1698 'wl-clipboard':1697 'wlr':293,1350 'wlr-randr':292,1349 'wlroot':290,1355 'wm':1359,1556 'wms':1378,1478 'work':66,193,271,276,297,304,466,487,534,541,578,613,621,687,848,854,972,1000,1030,1040,1049,1321,1420,1424,1651,1659,1837,1898 'workaround':817 'woukd':1259 'would':64,1093,1495,2018 'wouldn':260,1523,1657 'write':1393 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+cross: false
+upVotes: 0
+downVotes: 0
+ranking: 1700305796
+visibility: "visible "
+apId: "https://feddit.uk/post/4608014"
+editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700502248 {#2522
date: 2023-11-20 18:44:08.0 +01:00
}
+createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700219396 {#2498
date: 2023-11-17 12:09:56.0 +01:00
}
+__isInitialized__: true
…2
}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2323 …}
+image: null
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2102 …}
+root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300 …}
+body: """
No problem, I've done no magic of any kind there. This is what the manjaro installer created only.\n
\n
> > cat /proc/cmdline\n
> > \n
> > BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-6.1-x86_64 root=UUID=99ed8aec-cdfc-44d6-8217-c85d3db09036 rw quiet cryptdevice=UUID=9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8:luks-9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8 root=/dev/mapper/luks-9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8 udev.log_priority=3
"""
+lang: "en"
+isAdult: false
+favouriteCount: 0
+score: 0
+lastActive: DateTime @1700337776 {#2108
date: 2023-11-18 21:02:56.0 +01:00
}
+ip: null
+tags: null
+mentions: [
"@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
"@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social"
"@PseudoSpock@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
]
+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2109 …}
+nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2106 …}
+votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2107 …}
+reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2124 …}
+favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2118 …}
+notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2121 …}
-id: 137777
-bodyTs: "'/boot/vmlinuz-6.1-x86_64':24 '/dev/mapper/luks-9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8':51 '/proc/cmdline':21 '3':54 '3f01':39,46 '44d6':30 '472a':40,47 '8217':31 '99ed8aec':28 '99ed8aec-cdfc-44d6':27 '9bca8872':38,45 '9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8':37 'b196':41,48 'boot':22 'c85d3db09036':32 'cat':20 'cdfc':29 'creat':18 'cryptdevic':35 'done':5 'ef19cde6b5f8':42,49 'imag':23 'instal':17 'kind':10 'luk':44 'luks-9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8':43 'magic':7 'manjaro':16 'prioriti':53 'problem':2 'quiet':34 'root':25,50 'rw':33 'udev.log':52 'uuid':26,36 've':4"
+ranking: 0
+commentCount: 0
+upVotes: 0
+downVotes: 0
+visibility: "visible "
+apId: "https://kbin.social/m/linux@lemmy.ml/t/634287/-/comment/3642157"
+editedAt: null
+createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700337776 {#2111
date: 2023-11-18 21:02:56.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 137777
} |
|
Show voter details
|
| 63 |
DENIED
|
edit
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2333
+user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2519 …}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2323 …}
+image: null
+domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2555 …}
+slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
+title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
+url: null
+body: """
Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
\n
This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
\n
Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
\n
##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
\n
- *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
- *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
- *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
- *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
\n
…*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
\n
In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
\n
As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
\n
Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
\n
And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
\n
As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
\n
Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
- *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
- *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
- *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
- *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
- *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
\n
Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
\n
- *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
- *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
\n
Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
\n
- *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
- *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
- *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
- *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
- *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
\n
Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
\n
DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
\n
Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
\n
As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
- *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
- *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
\n
Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
- *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
- *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
- *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
- *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
- *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
- *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
- *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
- *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
- *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
- *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
- *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
\n
And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
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Worked with no drama, for me at least. Hooked it to my TV because that was most convenient. USB-C to HDMI adapter, I just had to tell it where they were in relation to each other and set scaling on the TV. Fonts look a little screwy on that dialogue box, but only in the screenshot - and when composing this post I realized even there they look OK if I don't view that part of the screenshot on the 4K display.\n
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Edit: No, untrue. I think I had the wrong glasses on. The fonts on the 1080p display are fine in reality, but the screenshot is distorting everything on that panel a bit. Again, screenshot only though. All good otherwise. I can't see any other problem after using it a bit like this though.
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No problem, I've done no magic of any kind there. This is what the manjaro installer created only.\n
\n
> > cat /proc/cmdline\n
> > \n
> > BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-6.1-x86_64 root=UUID=99ed8aec-cdfc-44d6-8217-c85d3db09036 rw quiet cryptdevice=UUID=9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8:luks-9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8 root=/dev/mapper/luks-9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8 udev.log_priority=3
"""
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|
Show voter details
|
| 64 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2333
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+slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
+title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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+body: """
Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
\n
This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
\n
Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
\n
##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
\n
- *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
- *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
- *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
- *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
\n
…*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
\n
In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
\n
As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
\n
Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
\n
And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
\n
As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
\n
Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
- *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
- *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
- *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
- *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
- *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
\n
Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
\n
- *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
- *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
\n
Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
\n
- *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
- *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
- *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
- *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
- *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
\n
Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
\n
DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
\n
Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
\n
As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
- *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
- *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
\n
Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
- *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
- *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
- *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
- *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
- *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
- *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
- *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
- *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
- *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
- *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
- *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
\n
And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
"""
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3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101}
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+body: "No problem, if there's anything else that could help you to troubleshoot on your end let me know."
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2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045
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Worked with no drama, for me at least. Hooked it to my TV because that was most convenient. USB-C to HDMI adapter, I just had to tell it where they were in relation to each other and set scaling on the TV. Fonts look a little screwy on that dialogue box, but only in the screenshot - and when composing this post I realized even there they look OK if I don't view that part of the screenshot on the 4K display.\n
\n
Edit: No, untrue. I think I had the wrong glasses on. The fonts on the 1080p display are fine in reality, but the screenshot is distorting everything on that panel a bit. Again, screenshot only though. All good otherwise. I can't see any other problem after using it a bit like this though.
"""
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date: 2023-11-22 13:44:59.0 +01:00
}
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date: 2023-11-18 20:08:29.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 137649
}
0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2329
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
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+body: "I'm fairly sure I have run this system dual-monitor though I don't do it routinely. I'll check sometime this weekend and let you know, if you are interested for comparison's sake."
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"@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
"@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social"
"@PseudoSpock@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
]
+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2334 …}
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date: 2023-11-17 19:27:47.0 +01:00
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}
]
-id: 13812
-titleTs: "'articl':7 'boycott':5 'respons':2 'wayland':6"
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'askpass':1703 'assum':775,1097,1571,1736,1883,1938 'atom':1727 'attempt':1508 'autom':675 'automat':826 'avoid':179 'awar':450 'away':1550 'awesom':1490 'awesomewm':1483 'back':503,976,2014 'backend':473 'base':1980 'basic':1587 'becom':425,1777 'better':1766,1768,1778 'bias':1149 'biggest':1477 'bill':1811 'boom':951 'bother':645 'break':362,523,674,790,836,899,1153,1232,1276,1289,1298,1554,1607,1635,1701,1725,1744,1785,1815,1855,1865,1889,1901,1927,1941,1951 'brodi':505 'broken':98,1585 'bsd':1154 'budgi':1409 'built':58,374,842 'bunch':163 'busi':395 'bwing':74 'call':1450,1459,1466 'cannot':128 'case':1576,1863,1949,1960 'challeng':1503 'chang':266,470,570,1593 'choos':941 'cinnamon':1408 'clear':562,566 'clipboard':1699 'close':1240 'closer':1009 'code':1396 'color':885,1890 'colour':860 'come':404,975 'comment':559,1112,1689 'compar':1781 'complet':768 'complex':1391 'complic':1201 'compon':84 'compositor':115,122,213,244,279,339,857,1186,1923 'conclud':1974 'confirm':1063 'consid':752,1068 'control':862 'convinc':33 'cooler':1517 'correct':366,783,1163,1920,2012 'couldn':642 'cours':1317,1655,1827 'crash':102 'cross':1136 'cruft':249 'current':599,1375 'd':1334 'de':299,306 'debian':436,575 'decid':387 'decor':1204 'default':433 'defenc':413 'deni':1065 'depend':1280 'des':1380,1403 'describ':1295 'design':100,920 'desktop':625,1968 'dev':416,1441,1491 'develop':144,259,591 'differ':278 'difficulti':1264 'disabl':1752 'discuss':1267 'doc':1592 'doesn':301,312,702,845,956,1649 'driver':1027,1071 'drm':1902 'drop':766,1456 'drop-in':1455 'dwl':1451 'dwm':1445 'edit':1102,1177,1577,1680 'effici':235 'effort':73 'either':393,1416 'els':963,1887 'enforc':587 'enlighten':1410 'enough':399,427,1770 'especi':851 'even':434,1383,1413 'everi':709 'evid':2017 'evidenc':1510 'exist':708,1513 'face':681 'fact':1343,1580 'fade':1549 'fair':1983 'fallback':827 'familiar':1907,1933 'fan':27 'far':965 'featur':318,331,1402 'fedora':762 'file':1969 'fit':177,1809 'fix':781,1101,1260,1274 'follow':368,1265 'forese':1175 'freebsd':26,68,1188 'full':18 'function':1366 'futur':1176 'game':1745 'gamer':1759 'gammastep':897 'gave':481 'get':12,910,1008,1765 'gist.github.com':4,7 'gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)':6 'github.com':1604 'github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)':1603 'given':1388 'global':729,743,900,911 'gnome':286,543,615,651,726,733,1219,1404 'go':89 'got':1991 'graphic':472 'great':800 'guess':1161,1335,1629 'gui':1126 'guy':22 'happen':342,1670,1674 'hardwar':1004,1053,1123 'heard':710,1019,1078,1209 'hire':1439 'home':1930 'hope':1772 'hotkey':901,912 'howev':329,813 'hyprland':509,906,926 'i3':1452 'icewm':1539 'icon':1953 'ignor':1578 'implement':167,214,221,317,336,935,961,1362 'improv':1082 'in-hom':1928 'incred':757 'instert':1358 'integr':227 'intel':1052,1070,1086,1105,1122 'intend':1384 'introduc':987 'irrespons':398 'isn':48 'issu':181,554,597,655,724,777,1022,1118,1238,1713,1910 'jitsi':531 'jwm':1536 'kanshi':1353 'kde':350,728,736,763,1405 'keep':37,1006 'key':942 'keylogg':146 'keystrok':141 'know':669,741,968,1340,1564,1998 'knowledg':1730,1985,2004 'known':353 'kwin':360 'labwc':1467 'lack':1729 'last':654 'late':980 'lead':320 'lean':324 'leas':1903 'let':87,211,1996 'librari':86 'like':135,291,858,896,1167,1286,1348,1365,1548,1696 'limit':586,1984,2007 'link':1,550,1237,1583,1589,1602,1611,1705 'linux':60,82,1151,1601 'linux-specif':81 'littl':739 'll':1570 'look':1795 'lot':71,131 'm':448,462,787,1038,1056,1160,1325,1628,1747,1756,1804,1850 'made':283,695,1083 'main':1213 'make':45,143,253,421 'manag':106,120,197,231,1291,1310,1431,1891 'mani':172,438,452,1080,1081 'mark':1597,1619 'massiv':25 'mate':1406 'mayb':1848 'mean':240,704 'measur':924 'mention':1249,1532 'menus':730,744 'mess':184 'might':1192,1472 'mind':62 'minor':1377 'misrememb':1852 'miss':1480 'mode':832 'much':248 'multipl':220,1104 'must':1841 'name':715 'necessari':333 'necessarili':303 'need':314 'net':1555 'netwm/ewmh':1942 'new':255,381 'next':719 'nomachin':1608 'non':650 'non-gnom':649 'normal':916 'notic':1473 'noveau':1029 'nvidia':1003 'nx':1609 'ob':484,516 'obscur':1545 'offer':879 'offload':192 'often':352 'oftentim':310 'okay':1497 'one':256,672,1133,1165,1228,1474,1567 'open':547,1073 'openbox':1461 'openbsd':1197 'opinion':1044 'other':1199 'outdat':10,521 'page':1615 'pantheon':1414 'part':203 'pass':946 'peopl':35,1686 'perfect':496 'perform':237,1775,1779 'person':564,594 'plagu':187 'plasma':358,1875 'pleas':782,1994,1995 'plugin':799,804,824 'point':93,95,1108,1612,1682,1708,1723 'pointless':585,632 'posit':1869 'post':13,595 'prefer':2013 'present':903 'prevent':1125,1668 'probabl':418,779,1337 'problem':658,806,952 'program':841 'project':165,480,748,1531,1881 'proper':1001,1050 'proprietari':1026 'protocol':160,209,1253,1560 'proven':892 'pureo':573 'put':75,604,634 'qt':798 'qtile':1432 'quit':491,520,2006 'quot':809,870,1370 'raising/activating':1234 'randr':294,1351 're':1294,1665,1794 'read':556,626 'readi':349 'realis':401 'realli':262 'reason':51,1095,1833 'recent':1412 'record':364,370,512 'redshift':837,872,894 'releas':992,1622 'remain':1171 'rememb':713,1835 'replac':1458,1801 'requir':468,1357,1397 'rescuetim':1277,1279 'resolv':1245,1716 'respons':1976 'restrict':607,633 'rhat':1906 'robertson':506 'root':1131 'rumour':1042 'run':110,222,829,1129 'safe':773 'said':1493,1639,1962 'screen':363,369,524 'screensav':1856 'screenshar':609 'secur':923 'see':139,176,833,1721,2002 'seem':539,958,1114,1156,1181,1242,1520,1706,1859,1945,1956 'server':118,1202 'set':158,1866 'setter':867 'shame':1488 'share':525 'sheer':1390 'ship':795,802,820 'show':530 'side':1087,1203 'simultan':223 'sinc':877 'sire':463 'skip':1558 'skiptaskbar':1595 'small':1543 'smaller':479 'softwar':327,676 'solut':328,346,937,1146 'solv':807,953,1621,1633 'someon':1499 'someth':1214 'sometim':330 'soon':1769 'sort':458 'sourc':1074 'special':797 'specif':83,284,288 'spiritu':1448,1464 'stabl':426,758 'stand':1376 'start':1419,1423 'state':567,598,678,1224,1557 'still':1574 'stop':932 'stori':19 'stream':1931 'streamlin':326 'structur':206 'subpar':1774 'successor':1449,1465 'sudo':1702 'suffer':245 'support':376,875,989,1386,1399,1428,1924 'sure':46,422,1327,1749,1806,1877 'sway':1460 'take':107,1500 'task':1306 'taskbar':1559 'team':639 'temperatur':861,886 'term':443 'test':647 'thing':133,1089 'think':500,770,1091,1226,1270 'though':1830 'thus':178,233 'time':16,126,1256 'tool':1285,1302,1314 'topic':1733,1915,1988 'toward':1150 'tri':31,1666 'trivial':148 'true':308,890,1168,1195,1212,1230,1884,1939 'twm':1537 'understand':1912 'understood':476 'unfortun':954 'univers':345 'unless':280 'unmaintain':183 'unsupport':1599 'updat':529 'use':39,79,508,515,620,697,746,1034,1057,1971 'user':1106 'usual':341 'valid':1157,1741 'various':1305 've':1018,1077,1208 'version':1624 'video':514 'vsync':1753 'wallpap':866 'want':43,419,1437 'way':217,881,1516,1711 'way-cool':1515 'waybox':1469 'wayland':56,96,155,273,361,377,379,402,423,489,522,536,624,673,692,760,789,835,850,876,898,969,988,997,1046,1120,1124,1147,1185,1200,1231,1275,1288,1297,1323,1356,1387,1429,1553,1606,1634,1653,1661,1663,1700,1724,1743,1763,1784,1814,1840,1854,1864,1888,1900,1926,1940,1950 'well':226,750,1031,1787,1817 'wiki.xfce.org':995 'wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)':994 'window':105,119,137,196,230,1233,1290,1309,1430,1868,1952 'wine':1761 'wip':1252,1873 'without':69 'wl':1698 'wl-clipboard':1697 'wlr':293,1350 'wlr-randr':292,1349 'wlroot':290,1355 'wm':1359,1556 'wms':1378,1478 'work':66,193,271,276,297,304,466,487,534,541,578,613,621,687,848,854,972,1000,1030,1040,1049,1321,1420,1424,1651,1659,1837,1898 'workaround':817 'woukd':1259 'would':64,1093,1495,2018 'wouldn':260,1523,1657 'write':1393 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+cross: false
+upVotes: 0
+downVotes: 0
+ranking: 1700305796
+visibility: "visible "
+apId: "https://feddit.uk/post/4608014"
+editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700502248 {#2522
date: 2023-11-20 18:44:08.0 +01:00
}
+createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700219396 {#2498
date: 2023-11-17 12:09:56.0 +01:00
}
+__isInitialized__: true
…2
}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2323 …}
+image: null
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2102 …}
+root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300 …}
+body: """
No problem, I've done no magic of any kind there. This is what the manjaro installer created only.\n
\n
> > cat /proc/cmdline\n
> > \n
> > BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-6.1-x86_64 root=UUID=99ed8aec-cdfc-44d6-8217-c85d3db09036 rw quiet cryptdevice=UUID=9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8:luks-9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8 root=/dev/mapper/luks-9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8 udev.log_priority=3
"""
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+isAdult: false
+favouriteCount: 0
+score: 0
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date: 2023-11-18 21:02:56.0 +01:00
}
+ip: null
+tags: null
+mentions: [
"@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
"@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social"
"@PseudoSpock@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
]
+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2109 …}
+nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2106 …}
+votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2107 …}
+reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2124 …}
+favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2118 …}
+notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2121 …}
-id: 137777
-bodyTs: "'/boot/vmlinuz-6.1-x86_64':24 '/dev/mapper/luks-9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8':51 '/proc/cmdline':21 '3':54 '3f01':39,46 '44d6':30 '472a':40,47 '8217':31 '99ed8aec':28 '99ed8aec-cdfc-44d6':27 '9bca8872':38,45 '9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8':37 'b196':41,48 'boot':22 'c85d3db09036':32 'cat':20 'cdfc':29 'creat':18 'cryptdevic':35 'done':5 'ef19cde6b5f8':42,49 'imag':23 'instal':17 'kind':10 'luk':44 'luks-9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8':43 'magic':7 'manjaro':16 'prioriti':53 'problem':2 'quiet':34 'root':25,50 'rw':33 'udev.log':52 'uuid':26,36 've':4"
+ranking: 0
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+visibility: "visible "
+apId: "https://kbin.social/m/linux@lemmy.ml/t/634287/-/comment/3642157"
+editedAt: null
+createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700337776 {#2111
date: 2023-11-18 21:02:56.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 137777
} |
|
Show voter details
|
| 65 |
DENIED
|
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|
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|
| 66 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2333
+user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2519 …}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2323 …}
+image: null
+domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2555 …}
+slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
+title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
+url: null
+body: """
Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
\n
This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
\n
Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
\n
##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
\n
- *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
- *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
- *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
- *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
\n
…*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
\n
In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
\n
As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
\n
Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
\n
And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
\n
As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
\n
Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
- *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
- *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
- *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
- *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
- *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
\n
Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
\n
- *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
- *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
\n
Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
\n
- *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
- *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
- *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
- *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
- *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
\n
Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
\n
DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
\n
Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
\n
As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
- *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
- *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
\n
Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
- *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
- *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
- *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
- *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
- *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
- *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
- *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
- *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
- *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
- *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
- *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
\n
And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
"""
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No problem, I've done no magic of any kind there. This is what the manjaro installer created only.\n
\n
> > cat /proc/cmdline\n
> > \n
> > BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-6.1-x86_64 root=UUID=99ed8aec-cdfc-44d6-8217-c85d3db09036 rw quiet cryptdevice=UUID=9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8:luks-9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8 root=/dev/mapper/luks-9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8 udev.log_priority=3
"""
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1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123}
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Worked with no drama, for me at least. Hooked it to my TV because that was most convenient. USB-C to HDMI adapter, I just had to tell it where they were in relation to each other and set scaling on the TV. Fonts look a little screwy on that dialogue box, but only in the screenshot - and when composing this post I realized even there they look OK if I don't view that part of the screenshot on the 4K display.\n
\n
Edit: No, untrue. I think I had the wrong glasses on. The fonts on the 1080p display are fine in reality, but the screenshot is distorting everything on that panel a bit. Again, screenshot only though. All good otherwise. I can't see any other problem after using it a bit like this though.
"""
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+body: "I'm fairly sure I have run this system dual-monitor though I don't do it routinely. I'll check sometime this weekend and let you know, if you are interested for comparison's sake."
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'someth':1214 'sometim':330 'soon':1769 'sort':458 'sourc':1074 'special':797 'specif':83,284,288 'spiritu':1448,1464 'stabl':426,758 'stand':1376 'start':1419,1423 'state':567,598,678,1224,1557 'still':1574 'stop':932 'stori':19 'stream':1931 'streamlin':326 'structur':206 'subpar':1774 'successor':1449,1465 'sudo':1702 'suffer':245 'support':376,875,989,1386,1399,1428,1924 'sure':46,422,1327,1749,1806,1877 'sway':1460 'take':107,1500 'task':1306 'taskbar':1559 'team':639 'temperatur':861,886 'term':443 'test':647 'thing':133,1089 'think':500,770,1091,1226,1270 'though':1830 'thus':178,233 'time':16,126,1256 'tool':1285,1302,1314 'topic':1733,1915,1988 'toward':1150 'tri':31,1666 'trivial':148 'true':308,890,1168,1195,1212,1230,1884,1939 'twm':1537 'understand':1912 'understood':476 'unfortun':954 'univers':345 'unless':280 'unmaintain':183 'unsupport':1599 'updat':529 'use':39,79,508,515,620,697,746,1034,1057,1971 'user':1106 'usual':341 'valid':1157,1741 'various':1305 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'writer':662,1141 'wrong':788,1679,1993 'x':1823 'x11':689,1283,1300,1313,1645,1726 'x11-only':1282,1299 'xcb':823 'xclip':1636,1642,1695 'xdm':1538 'xdotool':1786 'xfce':974,983,1407 'xkill':1816 'xmonad':1436 'xorg':40,188,767,844,1364,1552,1672,1783 'xorg-lik':1363 'xprop':1287 'xrandr':1345 'xwayland':831,1845 'ydotool':712,1791,1808 'yeah':1857,1943,1954 'year':190,411,439 'yes':112,153,199,691,1367,1788,1818 'yet':1014,1179 'zoom':537,553,590,601,638"
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+body: "No problem, if there's anything else that could help you to troubleshoot on your end let me know."
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|
Show voter details
|
| 67 |
DENIED
|
edit
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123
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+slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
+title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
+url: null
+body: """
Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
\n
This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
\n
Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
\n
##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
\n
- *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
- *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
- *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
- *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
\n
…*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
\n
In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
\n
As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
\n
Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
\n
And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
\n
As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
\n
Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
- *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
- *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
- *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
- *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
- *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
\n
Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
\n
- *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
- *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
\n
Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
\n
- *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
- *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
- *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
- *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
- *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
\n
Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
\n
DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
\n
Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
\n
As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
- *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
- *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
\n
Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
- *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
- *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
- *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
- *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
- *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
- *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
- *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
- *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
- *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
- *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
- *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
\n
And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
"""
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date: 2024-02-17 22:16:50.0 +01:00
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3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101
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+body: """
No problem, I've done no magic of any kind there. This is what the manjaro installer created only.\n
\n
> > cat /proc/cmdline\n
> > \n
> > BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-6.1-x86_64 root=UUID=99ed8aec-cdfc-44d6-8217-c85d3db09036 rw quiet cryptdevice=UUID=9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8:luks-9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8 root=/dev/mapper/luks-9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8 udev.log_priority=3
"""
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date: 2023-11-18 21:02:56.0 +01:00
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}
1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123}
2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045
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Worked with no drama, for me at least. Hooked it to my TV because that was most convenient. USB-C to HDMI adapter, I just had to tell it where they were in relation to each other and set scaling on the TV. Fonts look a little screwy on that dialogue box, but only in the screenshot - and when composing this post I realized even there they look OK if I don't view that part of the screenshot on the 4K display.\n
\n
Edit: No, untrue. I think I had the wrong glasses on. The fonts on the 1080p display are fine in reality, but the screenshot is distorting everything on that panel a bit. Again, screenshot only though. All good otherwise. I can't see any other problem after using it a bit like this though.
"""
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…2
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+body: "No problem, if there's anything else that could help you to troubleshoot on your end let me know."
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|
Show voter details
|
| 68 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
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+slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
+title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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+body: """
Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
\n
This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
\n
Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
\n
##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
\n
- *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
- *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
- *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
- *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
\n
…*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
\n
In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
\n
As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
\n
Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
\n
And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
\n
As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
\n
Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
- *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
- *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
- *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
- *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
- *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
\n
Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
\n
- *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
- *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
\n
Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
\n
- *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
- *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
- *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
- *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
- *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
\n
Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
\n
DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
\n
Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
\n
As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
- *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
- *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
\n
Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
- *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
- *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
- *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
- *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
- *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
- *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
- *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
- *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
- *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
- *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
- *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
\n
And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
"""
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No problem, I've done no magic of any kind there. This is what the manjaro installer created only.\n
\n
> > cat /proc/cmdline\n
> > \n
> > BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-6.1-x86_64 root=UUID=99ed8aec-cdfc-44d6-8217-c85d3db09036 rw quiet cryptdevice=UUID=9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8:luks-9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8 root=/dev/mapper/luks-9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8 udev.log_priority=3
"""
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1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123}
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Worked with no drama, for me at least. Hooked it to my TV because that was most convenient. USB-C to HDMI adapter, I just had to tell it where they were in relation to each other and set scaling on the TV. Fonts look a little screwy on that dialogue box, but only in the screenshot - and when composing this post I realized even there they look OK if I don't view that part of the screenshot on the 4K display.\n
\n
Edit: No, untrue. I think I had the wrong glasses on. The fonts on the 1080p display are fine in reality, but the screenshot is distorting everything on that panel a bit. Again, screenshot only though. All good otherwise. I can't see any other problem after using it a bit like this though.
"""
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+body: "I'm fairly sure I have run this system dual-monitor though I don't do it routinely. I'll check sometime this weekend and let you know, if you are interested for comparison's sake."
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045
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+slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
+title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
\n
This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
\n
Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
\n
##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
\n
- *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
- *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
- *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
- *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
\n
…*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
\n
In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
\n
As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
\n
Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
\n
And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
\n
As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
\n
Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
- *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
- *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
- *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
- *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
- *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
\n
Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
\n
- *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
- *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
\n
Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
\n
- *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
- *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
- *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
- *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
- *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
\n
Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
\n
DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
\n
Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
\n
As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
- *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
- *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
\n
Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
- *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
- *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
- *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
- *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
- *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
- *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
- *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
- *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
- *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
- *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
- *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
\n
And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
"""
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No problem, I've done no magic of any kind there. This is what the manjaro installer created only.\n
\n
> > cat /proc/cmdline\n
> > \n
> > BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-6.1-x86_64 root=UUID=99ed8aec-cdfc-44d6-8217-c85d3db09036 rw quiet cryptdevice=UUID=9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8:luks-9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8 root=/dev/mapper/luks-9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8 udev.log_priority=3
"""
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+body: "I'm fairly sure I have run this system dual-monitor though I don't do it routinely. I'll check sometime this weekend and let you know, if you are interested for comparison's sake."
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+editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700502248 {#2522
date: 2023-11-20 18:44:08.0 +01:00
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date: 2023-11-17 12:09:56.0 +01:00
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…2
}
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+body: """
Worked with no drama, for me at least. Hooked it to my TV because that was most convenient. USB-C to HDMI adapter, I just had to tell it where they were in relation to each other and set scaling on the TV. Fonts look a little screwy on that dialogue box, but only in the screenshot - and when composing this post I realized even there they look OK if I don't view that part of the screenshot on the 4K display.\n
\n
Edit: No, untrue. I think I had the wrong glasses on. The fonts on the 1080p display are fine in reality, but the screenshot is distorting everything on that panel a bit. Again, screenshot only though. All good otherwise. I can't see any other problem after using it a bit like this though.
"""
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"@theshatterstone54@feddit.uk"
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+"title": 137649
} |
|
Show voter details
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| 71 |
DENIED
|
edit
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2333
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+domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2555 …}
+slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
+title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
+url: null
+body: """
Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
\n
This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
\n
Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
\n
##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
\n
- *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
- *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
- *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
- *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
\n
…*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
\n
In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
\n
As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
\n
Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
\n
And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
\n
As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
\n
Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
- *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
- *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
- *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
- *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
- *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
\n
Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
\n
- *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
- *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
\n
Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
\n
- *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
- *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
- *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
- *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
- *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
\n
Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
\n
DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
\n
Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
\n
As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
- *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
- *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
\n
Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
- *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
- *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
- *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
- *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
- *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
- *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
- *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
- *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
- *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
- *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
- *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
\n
And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
"""
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No problem, I've done no magic of any kind there. This is what the manjaro installer created only.\n
\n
> > cat /proc/cmdline\n
> > \n
> > BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-6.1-x86_64 root=UUID=99ed8aec-cdfc-44d6-8217-c85d3db09036 rw quiet cryptdevice=UUID=9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8:luks-9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8 root=/dev/mapper/luks-9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8 udev.log_priority=3
"""
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1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123
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2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045}
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…2
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+body: """
Worked with no drama, for me at least. Hooked it to my TV because that was most convenient. USB-C to HDMI adapter, I just had to tell it where they were in relation to each other and set scaling on the TV. Fonts look a little screwy on that dialogue box, but only in the screenshot - and when composing this post I realized even there they look OK if I don't view that part of the screenshot on the 4K display.\n
\n
Edit: No, untrue. I think I had the wrong glasses on. The fonts on the 1080p display are fine in reality, but the screenshot is distorting everything on that panel a bit. Again, screenshot only though. All good otherwise. I can't see any other problem after using it a bit like this though.
"""
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|
Show voter details
|
| 72 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
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+slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
+title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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+body: """
Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
\n
This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
\n
Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
\n
##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
\n
- *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
- *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
- *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
- *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
\n
…*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
\n
In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
\n
As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
\n
Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
\n
And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
\n
As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
\n
Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
- *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
- *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
- *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
- *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
- *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
\n
Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
\n
- *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
- *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
\n
Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
\n
- *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
- *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
- *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
- *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
- *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
\n
Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
\n
DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
\n
Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
\n
As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
- *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
- *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
\n
Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
- *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
- *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
- *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
- *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
- *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
- *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
- *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
- *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
- *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
- *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
- *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
\n
And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
"""
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No problem, I've done no magic of any kind there. This is what the manjaro installer created only.\n
\n
> > cat /proc/cmdline\n
> > \n
> > BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-6.1-x86_64 root=UUID=99ed8aec-cdfc-44d6-8217-c85d3db09036 rw quiet cryptdevice=UUID=9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8:luks-9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8 root=/dev/mapper/luks-9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8 udev.log_priority=3
"""
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1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123
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+body: "No problem, if there's anything else that could help you to troubleshoot on your end let me know."
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date: 2023-11-20 18:44:08.0 +01:00
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date: 2023-11-17 12:09:56.0 +01:00
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Worked with no drama, for me at least. Hooked it to my TV because that was most convenient. USB-C to HDMI adapter, I just had to tell it where they were in relation to each other and set scaling on the TV. Fonts look a little screwy on that dialogue box, but only in the screenshot - and when composing this post I realized even there they look OK if I don't view that part of the screenshot on the 4K display.\n
\n
Edit: No, untrue. I think I had the wrong glasses on. The fonts on the 1080p display are fine in reality, but the screenshot is distorting everything on that panel a bit. Again, screenshot only though. All good otherwise. I can't see any other problem after using it a bit like this though.
"""
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-id: 137649
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2329
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+slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
+title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
\n
This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
\n
Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
\n
##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
\n
- *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
- *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
- *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
- *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
\n
…*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
\n
In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
\n
As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
\n
Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
\n
And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
\n
As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
\n
Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
- *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
- *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
- *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
- *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
- *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
\n
Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
\n
- *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
- *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
\n
Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
\n
- *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
- *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
- *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
- *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
- *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
\n
Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
\n
DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
\n
Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
\n
As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
- *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
- *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
\n
Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
- *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
- *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
- *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
- *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
- *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
- *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
- *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
- *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
- *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
- *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
- *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
\n
And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
"""
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date: 2024-02-17 22:16:50.0 +01:00
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3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2333 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2323 …}
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+body: """
No problem, I've done no magic of any kind there. This is what the manjaro installer created only.\n
\n
> > cat /proc/cmdline\n
> > \n
> > BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-6.1-x86_64 root=UUID=99ed8aec-cdfc-44d6-8217-c85d3db09036 rw quiet cryptdevice=UUID=9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8:luks-9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8 root=/dev/mapper/luks-9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8 udev.log_priority=3
"""
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1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123
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+body: "No problem, if there's anything else that could help you to troubleshoot on your end let me know."
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2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2333 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2323 …}
+image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2057 …}
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+body: """
Worked with no drama, for me at least. Hooked it to my TV because that was most convenient. USB-C to HDMI adapter, I just had to tell it where they were in relation to each other and set scaling on the TV. Fonts look a little screwy on that dialogue box, but only in the screenshot - and when composing this post I realized even there they look OK if I don't view that part of the screenshot on the 4K display.\n
\n
Edit: No, untrue. I think I had the wrong glasses on. The fonts on the 1080p display are fine in reality, but the screenshot is distorting everything on that panel a bit. Again, screenshot only though. All good otherwise. I can't see any other problem after using it a bit like this though.
"""
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0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2329}
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've':1018,1077,1208 'version':1624 'video':514 'vsync':1753 'wallpap':866 'want':43,419,1437 'way':217,881,1516,1711 'way-cool':1515 'waybox':1469 'wayland':56,96,155,273,361,377,379,402,423,489,522,536,624,673,692,760,789,835,850,876,898,969,988,997,1046,1120,1124,1147,1185,1200,1231,1275,1288,1297,1323,1356,1387,1429,1553,1606,1634,1653,1661,1663,1700,1724,1743,1763,1784,1814,1840,1854,1864,1888,1900,1926,1940,1950 'well':226,750,1031,1787,1817 'wiki.xfce.org':995 'wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)':994 'window':105,119,137,196,230,1233,1290,1309,1430,1868,1952 'wine':1761 'wip':1252,1873 'without':69 'wl':1698 'wl-clipboard':1697 'wlr':293,1350 'wlr-randr':292,1349 'wlroot':290,1355 'wm':1359,1556 'wms':1378,1478 'work':66,193,271,276,297,304,466,487,534,541,578,613,621,687,848,854,972,1000,1030,1040,1049,1321,1420,1424,1651,1659,1837,1898 'workaround':817 'woukd':1259 'would':64,1093,1495,2018 'wouldn':260,1523,1657 'write':1393 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date: 2023-11-20 18:44:08.0 +01:00
}
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date: 2023-11-17 12:09:56.0 +01:00
}
+__isInitialized__: true
…2
}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2323 …}
+image: null
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324 …}
+root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300 …}
+body: "I'm fairly sure I have run this system dual-monitor though I don't do it routinely. I'll check sometime this weekend and let you know, if you are interested for comparison's sake."
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date: 2023-11-17 19:27:47.0 +01:00
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"@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social"
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+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2334 …}
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-id: 134285
-bodyTs: "'check':22 'comparison':35 'dual':11 'dual-monitor':10 'fair':3 'interest':33 'know':29 'let':27 'll':21 'm':2 'monitor':12 'routin':19 'run':7 'sake':37 'sometim':23 'sure':4 'system':9 'though':13 'weekend':25"
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+editedAt: null
+createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1700245667 {#2327
date: 2023-11-17 19:27:47.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 134285
} |
|
Show voter details
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|
edit
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2329
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
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+slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
+title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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+body: """
Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
\n
This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
\n
Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
\n
##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
\n
- *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
- *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
- *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
- *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
\n
…*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
\n
In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
\n
As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
\n
Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
\n
And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
\n
As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
\n
Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
- *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
- *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
- *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
- *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
- *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
\n
Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
\n
- *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
- *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
\n
Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
\n
- *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
- *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
- *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
- *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
- *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
\n
Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
\n
DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
\n
Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
\n
As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
- *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
- *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
\n
Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
- *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
- *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
- *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
- *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
- *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
- *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
- *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
- *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
- *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
- *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
- *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
\n
And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
"""
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3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101
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No problem, I've done no magic of any kind there. This is what the manjaro installer created only.\n
\n
> > cat /proc/cmdline\n
> > \n
> > BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-6.1-x86_64 root=UUID=99ed8aec-cdfc-44d6-8217-c85d3db09036 rw quiet cryptdevice=UUID=9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8:luks-9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8 root=/dev/mapper/luks-9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8 udev.log_priority=3
"""
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+body: "No problem, if there's anything else that could help you to troubleshoot on your end let me know."
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Worked with no drama, for me at least. Hooked it to my TV because that was most convenient. USB-C to HDMI adapter, I just had to tell it where they were in relation to each other and set scaling on the TV. Fonts look a little screwy on that dialogue box, but only in the screenshot - and when composing this post I realized even there they look OK if I don't view that part of the screenshot on the 4K display.\n
\n
Edit: No, untrue. I think I had the wrong glasses on. The fonts on the 1080p display are fine in reality, but the screenshot is distorting everything on that panel a bit. Again, screenshot only though. All good otherwise. I can't see any other problem after using it a bit like this though.
"""
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+body: "I'm fairly sure I have run this system dual-monitor though I don't do it routinely. I'll check sometime this weekend and let you know, if you are interested for comparison's sake."
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Show voter details
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| 76 |
DENIED
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moderate
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2329
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+slug: "A-response-to-the-Boycott-Wayland-article"
+title: "A response to the "Boycott Wayland" article"
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+body: """
Link to article: [gist.github.com/…/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f227…](https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277?permalink_comment_id=4749746)\n
\n
This OUTDATED article gets posted all the time. The full story is the guy is a massive FreeBSD fan so he is trying to convince more people to keep on using Xorg because he wants to make sure it isn’t abandoned. Reason for that being that Wayland is built with Linux in mind and would not work under FreeBSD without a lot of effort bwing put in as it uses some Linux-specific components or libraries.\n
\n
Let’s go through the article point by point:\n
\n
##### Wayland is broken by design:\n
\n
- *A crash in the window manager takes down all running applications*: Yes, because the compositor IS the server, window manager AND compositor at the same time.\n
- *You cannot do a lot of things*: What, like allowing Windows to see your keystrokes, which makes developing a keylogger absolutely trivial?\n
- *There is not /usr/bin/wayland*: Yes, because Wayland is a set of protocols, which a bunch of projects can implement as few or as many of, as they see fit, thus avoiding the issue of “unmaintainable mess” that has plagued Xorg for years.\n
- *It offloads work to the window manager*: Again, yes, that’s a part of its structure: do the protocols, then let the compositor implement them. That way, you have multiple implementations running simultaneously that are well integrated with their window managers and thus more efficient and performant. It also means that when a compositor suffers from too much cruft, we can just make a new one, while application developers wouldn’t really have anything to change because if their application works on Wayland, then it works on different compositors (unless it is made specifically for GNOME, or specifically for wlroots, like wlr-randr)\n
\n
…*so what works on DE 1, doesn’t necessarily work on DE 2*: True, because oftentimes, it doesn’t need to. Not implementing features can lead to a more lean and streamlined software solution. However, sometimes features are necessary and only implemented in some compositors. This usually happens because the universal solution is not ready. KDE are often known to do this with Plasma and KWin.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks screen recording applications*: Correction: The following screen recording applications were not built to support Wayland (because Wayland is new to them or they just decided not to, or they were either too busy or too irresponsible enough to realise Wayland is coming, and has been for over 10 years. In defence of the devs, they probably wanted to make sure Wayland will become stable enough, but it has been the default even on Debian for many years now, so…\n
\n
In terms of the applications, I’m not aware of many of them, and for this sort of application, I’m sire alot of work is required to change the graphical backend, so I understood that some smaller projects gave up, but OBS has been working on Wayland for quite a while. Is it perfect? I don’t think so, but back when Brodie Robertson was using Hyprland, he was recording his videos using OBS. This article is quite outdated.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks screen sharing applications*:\n
\n
As the update shows, Jitsi now does work on Wayland.\n
\n
Zoom only seemed to work on gnome, BUT if you open up the Link to the zoom issue and read through the comments, there is clearly a person that clearly states that they changed /etc/os-release from PureOS to debian and it worked for them, all because of some pointless limitations enforced by the Zoom developers. As the person posting the issue states “Currently, the zoom application has put an arbirtrary restriction on screensharing so it ONLY works on GNOME, when the api being used works on all wayland desktops.” Read that again. It’s a pointless restriction put there by the Zoom team because they couldn’t be bothered to test anything non-GNOME.\n
\n
And the last issue is a problem with the article writer’s own appimage. I don’t know about that one.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks automation software*\n
\n
As stated IN YOUR FACE, it is an application that works on X11 only. Yes, Wayland is not made to use such applications, but it doesn’t mean they can’t exist. Every heard of ydotool (remember that name)? Now you have.\n
\n
Next up, we have 3 issues about GNOME and KDE global menus (1 for GNOME, 2 for KDE). From the little I know about global menus and using these projects, as well as considering that they are both incredibly stable on Wayland and Fedora KDE will be dropping Xorg completely, I think it’s safe to assume these issues have probably been fixed. Please correct me if I’m wrong.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks AppImages that don’t ship a special QT plugin*: Great! Just ship the plugins then! Problem solved! Also, quote from the article: “However, there is a workaround: “AppImages which ship just the XCB plugin will automatically fallback to running in xwayland mode” (see below).”\n
- *Wayland breaks Redshift*: Once again, a program built for Xorg doesn’t always work on Wayland. Especially if it works with the compositor, like a colour temperature control application, or a wallpaper setter. The article quotes that “Redshift does not support Wayland since it offers no way to adjust the color temperature” which is not true, as proven by Redshift alternatives like Gammastep.\n
- *Wayland breaks global hotkeys*: I present to you: Hyprland (where you can get global hotkeys). Now, it is normally not allowed by design, as a security measure, but Hyprland has not allowed that to stop them from implementing a solution where you can choose keys that will be passed on to the application. Boom, problem solved. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be implemented anywhere else, as far as I know.\n
- *Wayland does not work for XFCE*: Come back to me in late 2024 after XFCE 4.20, which will introduce Wayland support, has been released. Also, [wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap](https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap)\n
- *Wayland does not work properly on Nvidia Hardware*: It keeps on getting closer but is not there yet, or so I’ve heard. Apparently, the issue is with the proprietary drivers, as noveau works well. But I use AMD, so I’m only working off rumours and opinions here.\n
- *Wayland does not work properly on Intel hardware*: Again, I’m using AMD, so I can’t confirm or deny this, but considering the Intel drivers are open source, and I’ve heard about many, many improvements made on the Intel side of things, I think it would be reasonable to assume it has been fixed.\n
\n
Edit: As multiple Intel users have pointed out in the comments, there seem to be no issues on Wayland with Intel hardware.\n
\n
- *Wayland prevents GUI applications from running as root*: This one has been crossed out as the article writer admits there is a solution\n
- *Wayland is biased towards Linux and breaks BSD*: Arguments seem valid, and I’m guessing, are correct. This one is likely true and will remain so for the foreseeable future.\n
\n
Edit: And yet, it seems that there are Wayland compositors for FreeBSD, so the above might only be true for OpenBSD and others.\n
\n
- *Wayland complicates server side decorations*: From what I’ve heard, this is true, mainly something to do with some GNOME agenda, as the article states. I think that one is true.\n
- *Wayland breaks windows raising/activating themselves*: The linked issue is closed and seems to be resolved. There is a mention of a WIP protocol at the time (2019) that woukd fix this. I had difficulty following the discussion, but I think this has been fixed.\n
- *Wayland breaks RescueTime*: Because RescueTime depends on X11-only tools like xprop.\n
- *Wayland breaks window manager*: What you’re describing is Wayland breaking X11-only tools for doing various tasks in a window manager. They are X11 tools, so of course they don’t work on Wayland. I’m not sure if there are alternatives, but I’d guess there probably are. I know for a fact that Xrandr has alternatives like wlr-randr and kanshi for wlroots.\n
- *Wayland requires {instert WM here} to implement Xorg-like functionality*:Yes, it does.\n
\n
Quote from article: "As it currently stands minor WMs and DEs do not even intend to support Wayland given the sheer complexity of writing all the code required to support the above features. "\n
\n
DEs: GNOME, KDE, MATE, XFCE, Cinnamon, Budgie, Enlightenment, and recently even Pantheon have either announced to start work on, have started work on, or already support Wayland.\n
\n
Window managers: Qtile is doing it. Xmonad wants to hire a dev to do it. Dwm has a spiritual successor called dwl. i3 has a drop-in replacement called sway. Openbox has 2 spiritual successors called labwc and waybox. Now you might notice one of the biggest WMs is missing on here: AwesomeWM, which is such a shame. The Awesome devs have said they would be okay with someone taking on that challenge (which has already been attempted, as evidenced by the existence of way-cooler), but it seems that they wouldn’t do it themselves.\n
\n
As for the projects mentioned in the article, (JWM, TWM, XDM, IceWM) they are too small and obscure, and will likely fade away with Xorg.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks _NET_WM_STATE_SKIP_TASKBAR protocol* I don’t know about that one, ao I’ll assume it is still the case. Edit: Ignoring the fact that the link is broken, it basically just links to a docs change where skipTaskbar is marked as unsupported on Linux. Link: [github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226](https://github.com/electron/electron/pull/33226)\n
- *Wayland breaks NoMachine NX* The link points to a page that has this marked as “SOLVED, Released in version 8” so I’m guessing it has been solved.\n
- *Wayland breaks Xclip*: As you said it yourself, Xclip is an X11 application, so it doesn’t work on Wayland. Of course it wouldn’t work on Wayland. With Wayland, we’re trying to prevent what happened with Xorg from happening again, or am I wrong?\n
\n
Edit: As pointed out by some people in the comments, there are also alternatives to xclip like wl-clipboard.\n
\n
- *Wayland breaks SUDO_ASKPASS*: That link seems to point to the way this issue has been resolved so I don’t see your point.\n
- *Wayland breaks X11 atoms*: I lack knowledge on the topic so will assume this to be a valid argument\n
- *Wayland break games*: I’m 99% sure you can disable Vsync??? But I’m not a gamer. Also, WINE on Wayland is getting better and better. Soon enough, I hope the subpar performance will become better performance (when compared to Xorg)\n
- *Wayland breaks xdotool*: Well, yes. There is ydotool, but you’re looking for a 1-to-1 replacement and I’m not sure if ydotool fits the bill for that.\n
- *Wayland breaks xkill*: Well, yes. Again. It is an X application, so of course it does. Though for some reason I remember it working once on wayland. Must have been an xwayland app, or maybe I’m just misremembering this.\n
- *Wayland breaks screensavers*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
- *Wayland breaks setting the window position*: That is a WIP for Plasma, not sure about any other projects, so assume true for anything else.\n
- *Wayland breaks color management*: Not anymore. That is being actively worked on.\n
- *Wayland breaks DRM leasing*: While not rhat familiar with the issue, my understanding of the topic is the article is correct: not all compositors support it.\n
- *Wayland breaks in-home streaming*: Not familiar with this, so will assume true.\n
- *Wayland breaks NetWM/EWMH*: Yeah, that seems to be the case.\n
- *Wayland breaks window icons*: Yeah, that seems to be the case, as said in the article, when no .desktop files are used.\n
\n
And that concludes my response to this article based on my fairly limited knowledge on the topic. If I got anything wrong, please, please let me know. As you can see my knowledge is quite limited, and as such, any corrections (preferably backed up with evidence) would be appreciated
"""
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date: 2024-02-17 22:16:50.0 +01:00
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3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2101
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+body: """
No problem, I've done no magic of any kind there. This is what the manjaro installer created only.\n
\n
> > cat /proc/cmdline\n
> > \n
> > BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-6.1-x86_64 root=UUID=99ed8aec-cdfc-44d6-8217-c85d3db09036 rw quiet cryptdevice=UUID=9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8:luks-9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8 root=/dev/mapper/luks-9bca8872-3f01-472a-b196-ef19cde6b5f8 udev.log_priority=3
"""
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date: 2023-11-18 21:02:56.0 +01:00
}
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1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2123
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2333 …2}
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+body: "No problem, if there's anything else that could help you to troubleshoot on your end let me know."
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date: 2023-11-19 01:11:54.0 +01:00
}
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}
2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2045
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2333 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2323 …}
+image: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2057 …}
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2050 …}
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+body: """
Worked with no drama, for me at least. Hooked it to my TV because that was most convenient. USB-C to HDMI adapter, I just had to tell it where they were in relation to each other and set scaling on the TV. Fonts look a little screwy on that dialogue box, but only in the screenshot - and when composing this post I realized even there they look OK if I don't view that part of the screenshot on the 4K display.\n
\n
Edit: No, untrue. I think I had the wrong glasses on. The fonts on the 1080p display are fine in reality, but the screenshot is distorting everything on that panel a bit. Again, screenshot only though. All good otherwise. I can't see any other problem after using it a bit like this though.
"""
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}
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date: 2023-11-18 20:08:29.0 +01:00
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0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2329}
]
-id: 13812
-titleTs: "'articl':7 'boycott':5 'respons':2 'wayland':6"
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date: 2023-11-17 12:09:56.0 +01:00
}
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…2
}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2323 …}
+image: null
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2324 …}
+root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2300 …}
+body: "I'm fairly sure I have run this system dual-monitor though I don't do it routinely. I'll check sometime this weekend and let you know, if you are interested for comparison's sake."
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} |
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| 78 |
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moderate
|
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2346
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+slug: "Please-not-again"
+title: "Please, not again."
+url: "https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/a1d921e6-ed8d-4f0b-9cec-9b8166f1c695.jpeg"
+body: "Edit: good to see I woke the shills"
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2348
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edit
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DENIED
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moderate
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| 85 |
DENIED
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Show voter details
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moderate
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2086
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Some of us take it to our hearts to remember one of the most influential hacktivists <3\n
\n
For that matter, I’d like to share a documentary about him: [archive.org/…/TheInternetsOwnBoyTheStoryOfAaronSw…](https://archive.org/details/TheInternetsOwnBoyTheStoryOfAaronSwartz)\n
\n
You can also get to know his legacy by reading the short Guerrilla Open Access Manifesto, available here: [openlibrary.org/…/Guerilla_Open_Access_Manifesto](https://openlibrary.org/books/OL25421460M/Guerilla_Open_Access_Manifesto)\n
\n
🦾🏴\u{200D}☠️
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Show voter details
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| 87 |
DENIED
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edit
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Some of us take it to our hearts to remember one of the most influential hacktivists <3\n
\n
For that matter, I’d like to share a documentary about him: [archive.org/…/TheInternetsOwnBoyTheStoryOfAaronSw…](https://archive.org/details/TheInternetsOwnBoyTheStoryOfAaronSwartz)\n
\n
You can also get to know his legacy by reading the short Guerrilla Open Access Manifesto, available here: [openlibrary.org/…/Guerilla_Open_Access_Manifesto](https://openlibrary.org/books/OL25421460M/Guerilla_Open_Access_Manifesto)\n
\n
🦾🏴\u{200D}☠️
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Show voter details
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Some of us take it to our hearts to remember one of the most influential hacktivists <3\n
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You can also get to know his legacy by reading the short Guerrilla Open Access Manifesto, available here: [openlibrary.org/…/Guerilla_Open_Access_Manifesto](https://openlibrary.org/books/OL25421460M/Guerilla_Open_Access_Manifesto)\n
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🦾🏴\u{200D}☠️
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Show voter details
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Some of us take it to our hearts to remember one of the most influential hacktivists <3\n
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Some of us take it to our hearts to remember one of the most influential hacktivists <3\n
\n
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Show voter details
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| 92 |
DENIED
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moderate
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2091
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Some of us take it to our hearts to remember one of the most influential hacktivists <3\n
\n
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\n
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Show voter details
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DENIED
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Show voter details
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2389
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+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1727 …}
+image: null
+domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2555 …}
+slug: "Ways-to-pirate-music-as-convenient-as-Spotify"
+title: "Ways to pirate music as convenient as Spotify?"
+url: null
+body: """
The reason I gave up on MP3’s and subscribed to Spotify was because Spotify was easy. I’ve been listening “Iron Maiden - Empire of the Clouds” song every day and like a week ago, its removed. This was the last straw for me. Right now I’m trying to find “Stremio” of the music world. Can someone assist?\n
\n
Key features I’m looking for:\n
\n
- Synchronization between devices\n
- Offline play\n
- Playlist support\n
- Both desktop and mobile apps\n
- Wide music library (optional if I will upload music)\n
- Lyrics (optional)\n
\n
Update: thanks to everyone who shared their solutions 🙏
"""
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}
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+notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2730 …}
+badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2732 …}
+children: [
3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2097
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2389 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1727 …}
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+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2083 …}
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"@Dasnap@lemmy.world"
"@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social"
"@TacoNissan@lemmy.zip"
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date: 2023-11-09 23:31:05.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 105688
}
1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1361
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2389 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1727 …}
+image: null
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1362 …}
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+body: "Thanks!"
+lang: "en"
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"@iso@lemy.lol"
"@Dasnap@lemmy.world"
"@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social"
"@watson387@sopuli.xyz"
"@Damage@feddit.it"
]
+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1403 …}
+nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2023 …}
+votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2032 …}
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date: 2023-11-08 21:59:03.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 102608
}
2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2029
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2389 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1727 …}
+image: null
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2012 …}
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I was about to move from Plex to Emby when the whole controversy erupted, and I waited excitedly for it to be ready.\n
\n
Switched as soon as it was viable and have not regretted it one time.
"""
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"@iso@lemy.lol"
"@Dasnap@lemmy.world"
"@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social"
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]
+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2020 …}
+nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2027 …}
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-id: 102956
-bodyTs: "'controversi':13 'embi':9 'erupt':14 'excit':18 'move':5 'one':36 'plex':7 'readi':23 'regret':34 'soon':26 'switch':24 'time':37 'viabl':30 'wait':17 'whole':12"
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+editedAt: null
+createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699486196 {#2028
date: 2023-11-09 00:29:56.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 102956
}
0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2391
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2389 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1727 …}
+image: null
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2369 …}
+root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2387 …}
+body: "Thanks!"
+lang: "en"
+isAdult: false
+favouriteCount: 0
+score: 0
+lastActive: DateTime @1699448057 {#1407
date: 2023-11-08 13:54:17.0 +01:00
}
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"@iso@lemy.lol"
"@Dasnap@lemmy.world"
"@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social"
"@watson387@sopuli.xyz"
"@Damage@feddit.it"
"@lea@feddit.de"
]
+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2392 …}
+nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2395 …}
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]
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date: 2023-11-09 13:28:05.0 +01:00
}
+createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699436871 {#2680
date: 2023-11-08 10:47:51.0 +01:00
}
+__isInitialized__: true
…2
} |
|
Show voter details
|
| 95 |
DENIED
|
edit
|
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2389
+user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2720 …}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1727 …}
+image: null
+domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2555 …}
+slug: "Ways-to-pirate-music-as-convenient-as-Spotify"
+title: "Ways to pirate music as convenient as Spotify?"
+url: null
+body: """
The reason I gave up on MP3’s and subscribed to Spotify was because Spotify was easy. I’ve been listening “Iron Maiden - Empire of the Clouds” song every day and like a week ago, its removed. This was the last straw for me. Right now I’m trying to find “Stremio” of the music world. Can someone assist?\n
\n
Key features I’m looking for:\n
\n
- Synchronization between devices\n
- Offline play\n
- Playlist support\n
- Both desktop and mobile apps\n
- Wide music library (optional if I will upload music)\n
- Lyrics (optional)\n
\n
Update: thanks to everyone who shared their solutions 🙏
"""
+type: "article"
+lang: "en"
+isOc: false
+hasEmbed: false
+commentCount: 107
+favouriteCount: 257
+score: 0
+isAdult: false
+sticky: false
+lastActive: DateTime @1701297713 {#2715
date: 2023-11-29 23:41:53.0 +01:00
}
+ip: null
+adaAmount: 0
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+comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2722 …}
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+favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2728 …}
+notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2730 …}
+badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2732 …}
+children: [
3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2097
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2389 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1727 …}
+image: null
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2083 …}
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+body: "Ah sorry! I have only run it from within Docker on Linux. BUT, I'm glad you got it working!"
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}
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"@iso@lemy.lol"
"@Dasnap@lemmy.world"
"@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social"
"@TacoNissan@lemmy.zip"
]
+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2082 …}
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-id: 105688
-bodyTs: "'ah':1 'docker':10 'glad':16 'got':18 'linux':12 'm':15 'run':6 'sorri':2 'within':9 'work':20"
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date: 2023-11-09 23:31:05.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 105688
}
1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1361
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2389 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1727 …}
+image: null
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"@Dasnap@lemmy.world"
"@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social"
"@watson387@sopuli.xyz"
"@Damage@feddit.it"
]
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date: 2023-11-08 21:59:03.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 102608
}
2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2029
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+image: null
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2012 …}
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+body: """
I was about to move from Plex to Emby when the whole controversy erupted, and I waited excitedly for it to be ready.\n
\n
Switched as soon as it was viable and have not regretted it one time.
"""
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date: 2023-11-09 00:29:56.0 +01:00
}
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"@iso@lemy.lol"
"@Dasnap@lemmy.world"
"@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social"
"@banneryear1868@lemmy.world"
]
+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2020 …}
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date: 2023-11-09 00:29:56.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 102956
}
0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2391
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2389 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1727 …}
+image: null
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2369 …}
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+body: "Thanks!"
+lang: "en"
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+favouriteCount: 0
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date: 2023-11-08 13:54:17.0 +01:00
}
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"@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social"
"@watson387@sopuli.xyz"
"@Damage@feddit.it"
"@lea@feddit.de"
]
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]
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date: 2023-11-08 10:47:51.0 +01:00
}
+__isInitialized__: true
…2
} |
|
Show voter details
|
| 96 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2389
+user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2720 …}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1727 …}
+image: null
+domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2555 …}
+slug: "Ways-to-pirate-music-as-convenient-as-Spotify"
+title: "Ways to pirate music as convenient as Spotify?"
+url: null
+body: """
The reason I gave up on MP3’s and subscribed to Spotify was because Spotify was easy. I’ve been listening “Iron Maiden - Empire of the Clouds” song every day and like a week ago, its removed. This was the last straw for me. Right now I’m trying to find “Stremio” of the music world. Can someone assist?\n
\n
Key features I’m looking for:\n
\n
- Synchronization between devices\n
- Offline play\n
- Playlist support\n
- Both desktop and mobile apps\n
- Wide music library (optional if I will upload music)\n
- Lyrics (optional)\n
\n
Update: thanks to everyone who shared their solutions 🙏
"""
+type: "article"
+lang: "en"
+isOc: false
+hasEmbed: false
+commentCount: 107
+favouriteCount: 257
+score: 0
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date: 2023-11-29 23:41:53.0 +01:00
}
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3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2097
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+body: "Ah sorry! I have only run it from within Docker on Linux. BUT, I'm glad you got it working!"
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date: 2023-11-09 23:31:05.0 +01:00
}
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"@iso@lemy.lol"
"@Dasnap@lemmy.world"
"@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social"
"@TacoNissan@lemmy.zip"
]
+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2082 …}
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}
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}
1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1361
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date: 2023-11-08 21:59:03.0 +01:00
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2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2029
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I was about to move from Plex to Emby when the whole controversy erupted, and I waited excitedly for it to be ready.\n
\n
Switched as soon as it was viable and have not regretted it one time.
"""
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date: 2023-11-09 00:29:56.0 +01:00
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0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2391
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…2
} |
|
Show voter details
|
| 97 |
DENIED
|
ROLE_USER
|
null |
|
Show voter details
|
| 98 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2097
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The reason I gave up on MP3’s and subscribed to Spotify was because Spotify was easy. I’ve been listening “Iron Maiden - Empire of the Clouds” song every day and like a week ago, its removed. This was the last straw for me. Right now I’m trying to find “Stremio” of the music world. Can someone assist?\n
\n
Key features I’m looking for:\n
\n
- Synchronization between devices\n
- Offline play\n
- Playlist support\n
- Both desktop and mobile apps\n
- Wide music library (optional if I will upload music)\n
- Lyrics (optional)\n
\n
Update: thanks to everyone who shared their solutions 🙏
"""
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2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2029
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I was about to move from Plex to Emby when the whole controversy erupted, and I waited excitedly for it to be ready.\n
\n
Switched as soon as it was viable and have not regretted it one time.
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0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2391
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}
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…2
}
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} |
|
Show voter details
|
| 99 |
DENIED
|
edit
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2097
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+slug: "Ways-to-pirate-music-as-convenient-as-Spotify"
+title: "Ways to pirate music as convenient as Spotify?"
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The reason I gave up on MP3’s and subscribed to Spotify was because Spotify was easy. I’ve been listening “Iron Maiden - Empire of the Clouds” song every day and like a week ago, its removed. This was the last straw for me. Right now I’m trying to find “Stremio” of the music world. Can someone assist?\n
\n
Key features I’m looking for:\n
\n
- Synchronization between devices\n
- Offline play\n
- Playlist support\n
- Both desktop and mobile apps\n
- Wide music library (optional if I will upload music)\n
- Lyrics (optional)\n
\n
Update: thanks to everyone who shared their solutions 🙏
"""
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2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2029
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I was about to move from Plex to Emby when the whole controversy erupted, and I waited excitedly for it to be ready.\n
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Switched as soon as it was viable and have not regretted it one time.
"""
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…2
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Show voter details
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| 100 |
DENIED
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moderate
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2097
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The reason I gave up on MP3’s and subscribed to Spotify was because Spotify was easy. I’ve been listening “Iron Maiden - Empire of the Clouds” song every day and like a week ago, its removed. This was the last straw for me. Right now I’m trying to find “Stremio” of the music world. Can someone assist?\n
\n
Key features I’m looking for:\n
\n
- Synchronization between devices\n
- Offline play\n
- Playlist support\n
- Both desktop and mobile apps\n
- Wide music library (optional if I will upload music)\n
- Lyrics (optional)\n
\n
Update: thanks to everyone who shared their solutions 🙏
"""
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I was about to move from Plex to Emby when the whole controversy erupted, and I waited excitedly for it to be ready.\n
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|
Show voter details
|
| 101 |
DENIED
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ROLE_USER
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null |
|
Show voter details
|
| 102 |
DENIED
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moderate
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#1361
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The reason I gave up on MP3’s and subscribed to Spotify was because Spotify was easy. I’ve been listening “Iron Maiden - Empire of the Clouds” song every day and like a week ago, its removed. This was the last straw for me. Right now I’m trying to find “Stremio” of the music world. Can someone assist?\n
\n
Key features I’m looking for:\n
\n
- Synchronization between devices\n
- Offline play\n
- Playlist support\n
- Both desktop and mobile apps\n
- Wide music library (optional if I will upload music)\n
- Lyrics (optional)\n
\n
Update: thanks to everyone who shared their solutions 🙏
"""
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date: 2023-11-08 21:59:03.0 +01:00
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} |
|
Show voter details
|
| 103 |
DENIED
|
edit
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1361
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2389
+user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2720 …}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1727 …}
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+domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2555 …}
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+url: null
+body: """
The reason I gave up on MP3’s and subscribed to Spotify was because Spotify was easy. I’ve been listening “Iron Maiden - Empire of the Clouds” song every day and like a week ago, its removed. This was the last straw for me. Right now I’m trying to find “Stremio” of the music world. Can someone assist?\n
\n
Key features I’m looking for:\n
\n
- Synchronization between devices\n
- Offline play\n
- Playlist support\n
- Both desktop and mobile apps\n
- Wide music library (optional if I will upload music)\n
- Lyrics (optional)\n
\n
Update: thanks to everyone who shared their solutions 🙏
"""
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}
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+comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2722 …}
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+badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2732 …}
+children: [
3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2097
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2389 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1727 …}
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+body: "Ah sorry! I have only run it from within Docker on Linux. BUT, I'm glad you got it working!"
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"@Dasnap@lemmy.world"
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date: 2023-11-09 23:31:05.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 105688
}
1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1361}
2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2029
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I was about to move from Plex to Emby when the whole controversy erupted, and I waited excitedly for it to be ready.\n
\n
Switched as soon as it was viable and have not regretted it one time.
"""
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}
+"title": 102956
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0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2391
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}
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date: 2023-11-08 10:47:51.0 +01:00
}
+__isInitialized__: true
…2
}
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+"title": 102608
} |
|
Show voter details
|
| 104 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1361
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2389
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+slug: "Ways-to-pirate-music-as-convenient-as-Spotify"
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+url: null
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The reason I gave up on MP3’s and subscribed to Spotify was because Spotify was easy. I’ve been listening “Iron Maiden - Empire of the Clouds” song every day and like a week ago, its removed. This was the last straw for me. Right now I’m trying to find “Stremio” of the music world. Can someone assist?\n
\n
Key features I’m looking for:\n
\n
- Synchronization between devices\n
- Offline play\n
- Playlist support\n
- Both desktop and mobile apps\n
- Wide music library (optional if I will upload music)\n
- Lyrics (optional)\n
\n
Update: thanks to everyone who shared their solutions 🙏
"""
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}
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3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2097
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"@Dasnap@lemmy.world"
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date: 2023-11-09 23:31:05.0 +01:00
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+"title": 105688
}
1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1361}
2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2029
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I was about to move from Plex to Emby when the whole controversy erupted, and I waited excitedly for it to be ready.\n
\n
Switched as soon as it was viable and have not regretted it one time.
"""
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}
+"title": 102956
}
0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2391
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}
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date: 2023-11-08 10:47:51.0 +01:00
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…2
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|
Show voter details
|
| 105 |
DENIED
|
ROLE_USER
|
null |
|
Show voter details
|
| 106 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2029
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The reason I gave up on MP3’s and subscribed to Spotify was because Spotify was easy. I’ve been listening “Iron Maiden - Empire of the Clouds” song every day and like a week ago, its removed. This was the last straw for me. Right now I’m trying to find “Stremio” of the music world. Can someone assist?\n
\n
Key features I’m looking for:\n
\n
- Synchronization between devices\n
- Offline play\n
- Playlist support\n
- Both desktop and mobile apps\n
- Wide music library (optional if I will upload music)\n
- Lyrics (optional)\n
\n
Update: thanks to everyone who shared their solutions 🙏
"""
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"@Dasnap@lemmy.world"
"@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social"
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+reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2098 …}
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date: 2023-11-09 23:31:05.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 105688
}
1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1361
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2389 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1727 …}
+image: null
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1362 …}
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+lang: "en"
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"@iso@lemy.lol"
"@Dasnap@lemmy.world"
"@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social"
"@watson387@sopuli.xyz"
"@Damage@feddit.it"
]
+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1403 …}
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date: 2023-11-08 21:59:03.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 102608
}
2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2029}
0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2391
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+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1727 …}
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"@Dasnap@lemmy.world"
"@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social"
"@watson387@sopuli.xyz"
"@Damage@feddit.it"
"@lea@feddit.de"
]
+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2392 …}
+nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2395 …}
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date: 2023-11-08 13:54:17.0 +01:00
}
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]
-id: 11123
-titleTs: "'conveni':6 'music':4 'pirat':3 'spotifi':8 'way':1"
-bodyTs: "'ago':35 'app':77 'assist':59 'cloud':27 'day':30 'desktop':74 'devic':68 'easi':17 'empir':24 'everi':29 'everyon':92 'featur':61 'find':51 'gave':4 'iron':22 'key':60 'last':41 'librari':80 'like':32 'listen':21 'look':64 'lyric':87 'm':48,63 'maiden':23 'mobil':76 'mp3':7 'music':55,79,86 'offlin':69 'option':81,88 'play':70 'playlist':71 'reason':2 'remov':37 'right':45 'share':94 'solut':96 'someon':58 'song':28 'spotifi':12,15 'straw':42 'stremio':52 'subscrib':10 'support':72 'synchron':66 'thank':90 'tri':49 'updat':89 'upload':85 've':19 'week':34 'wide':78 'world':56"
+cross: false
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+editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699532885 {#2703
date: 2023-11-09 13:28:05.0 +01:00
}
+createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699436871 {#2680
date: 2023-11-08 10:47:51.0 +01:00
}
+__isInitialized__: true
…2
}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1727 …}
+image: null
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2012 …}
+root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2387 …}
+body: """
I was about to move from Plex to Emby when the whole controversy erupted, and I waited excitedly for it to be ready.\n
\n
Switched as soon as it was viable and have not regretted it one time.
"""
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"@Dasnap@lemmy.world"
"@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social"
"@banneryear1868@lemmy.world"
]
+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2020 …}
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date: 2023-11-09 00:29:56.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 102956
} |
|
Show voter details
|
| 107 |
DENIED
|
edit
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2029
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2389
+user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2720 …}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1727 …}
+image: null
+domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2555 …}
+slug: "Ways-to-pirate-music-as-convenient-as-Spotify"
+title: "Ways to pirate music as convenient as Spotify?"
+url: null
+body: """
The reason I gave up on MP3’s and subscribed to Spotify was because Spotify was easy. I’ve been listening “Iron Maiden - Empire of the Clouds” song every day and like a week ago, its removed. This was the last straw for me. Right now I’m trying to find “Stremio” of the music world. Can someone assist?\n
\n
Key features I’m looking for:\n
\n
- Synchronization between devices\n
- Offline play\n
- Playlist support\n
- Both desktop and mobile apps\n
- Wide music library (optional if I will upload music)\n
- Lyrics (optional)\n
\n
Update: thanks to everyone who shared their solutions 🙏
"""
+type: "article"
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date: 2023-11-29 23:41:53.0 +01:00
}
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+badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2732 …}
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3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2097
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"@Dasnap@lemmy.world"
"@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social"
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]
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date: 2023-11-09 23:31:05.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 105688
}
1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1361
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+body: "Thanks!"
+lang: "en"
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"@Dasnap@lemmy.world"
"@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social"
"@watson387@sopuli.xyz"
"@Damage@feddit.it"
]
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+createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699477143 {#1363
date: 2023-11-08 21:59:03.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 102608
}
2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2029}
0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2391
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"@Dasnap@lemmy.world"
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"@watson387@sopuli.xyz"
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"@lea@feddit.de"
]
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]
-id: 11123
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date: 2023-11-09 13:28:05.0 +01:00
}
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date: 2023-11-08 10:47:51.0 +01:00
}
+__isInitialized__: true
…2
}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1727 …}
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I was about to move from Plex to Emby when the whole controversy erupted, and I waited excitedly for it to be ready.\n
\n
Switched as soon as it was viable and have not regretted it one time.
"""
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date: 2023-11-09 00:29:56.0 +01:00
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+"title": 102956
} |
|
Show voter details
|
| 108 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2029
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2389
+user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2720 …}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1727 …}
+image: null
+domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2555 …}
+slug: "Ways-to-pirate-music-as-convenient-as-Spotify"
+title: "Ways to pirate music as convenient as Spotify?"
+url: null
+body: """
The reason I gave up on MP3’s and subscribed to Spotify was because Spotify was easy. I’ve been listening “Iron Maiden - Empire of the Clouds” song every day and like a week ago, its removed. This was the last straw for me. Right now I’m trying to find “Stremio” of the music world. Can someone assist?\n
\n
Key features I’m looking for:\n
\n
- Synchronization between devices\n
- Offline play\n
- Playlist support\n
- Both desktop and mobile apps\n
- Wide music library (optional if I will upload music)\n
- Lyrics (optional)\n
\n
Update: thanks to everyone who shared their solutions 🙏
"""
+type: "article"
+lang: "en"
+isOc: false
+hasEmbed: false
+commentCount: 107
+favouriteCount: 257
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date: 2023-11-29 23:41:53.0 +01:00
}
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3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2097
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"@Dasnap@lemmy.world"
"@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social"
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date: 2023-11-09 23:31:05.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 105688
}
1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1361
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+body: "Thanks!"
+lang: "en"
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date: 2023-11-08 21:59:03.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 102608
}
2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2029}
0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2391
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+body: "Thanks!"
+lang: "en"
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date: 2023-11-08 13:54:17.0 +01:00
}
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…2
}
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I was about to move from Plex to Emby when the whole controversy erupted, and I waited excitedly for it to be ready.\n
\n
Switched as soon as it was viable and have not regretted it one time.
"""
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|
Show voter details
|
| 109 |
DENIED
|
ROLE_USER
|
null |
|
Show voter details
|
| 110 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2391
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
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The reason I gave up on MP3’s and subscribed to Spotify was because Spotify was easy. I’ve been listening “Iron Maiden - Empire of the Clouds” song every day and like a week ago, its removed. This was the last straw for me. Right now I’m trying to find “Stremio” of the music world. Can someone assist?\n
\n
Key features I’m looking for:\n
\n
- Synchronization between devices\n
- Offline play\n
- Playlist support\n
- Both desktop and mobile apps\n
- Wide music library (optional if I will upload music)\n
- Lyrics (optional)\n
\n
Update: thanks to everyone who shared their solutions 🙏
"""
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1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1361
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2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2029
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I was about to move from Plex to Emby when the whole controversy erupted, and I waited excitedly for it to be ready.\n
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"""
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}
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…2
}
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|
Show voter details
|
| 111 |
DENIED
|
edit
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2391
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+slug: "Ways-to-pirate-music-as-convenient-as-Spotify"
+title: "Ways to pirate music as convenient as Spotify?"
+url: null
+body: """
The reason I gave up on MP3’s and subscribed to Spotify was because Spotify was easy. I’ve been listening “Iron Maiden - Empire of the Clouds” song every day and like a week ago, its removed. This was the last straw for me. Right now I’m trying to find “Stremio” of the music world. Can someone assist?\n
\n
Key features I’m looking for:\n
\n
- Synchronization between devices\n
- Offline play\n
- Playlist support\n
- Both desktop and mobile apps\n
- Wide music library (optional if I will upload music)\n
- Lyrics (optional)\n
\n
Update: thanks to everyone who shared their solutions 🙏
"""
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1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1361
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2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2029
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I was about to move from Plex to Emby when the whole controversy erupted, and I waited excitedly for it to be ready.\n
\n
Switched as soon as it was viable and have not regretted it one time.
"""
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0 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2391}
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}
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+nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2395 …}
+votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1384 …}
+reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1383 …}
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+notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1382 …}
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-bodyTs: "'thank':1"
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+editedAt: null
+createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699448057 {#1883
date: 2023-11-08 13:54:17.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 101499
} |
|
Show voter details
|
| 112 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2391
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2389
+user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2720 …}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1727 …}
+image: null
+domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2555 …}
+slug: "Ways-to-pirate-music-as-convenient-as-Spotify"
+title: "Ways to pirate music as convenient as Spotify?"
+url: null
+body: """
The reason I gave up on MP3’s and subscribed to Spotify was because Spotify was easy. I’ve been listening “Iron Maiden - Empire of the Clouds” song every day and like a week ago, its removed. This was the last straw for me. Right now I’m trying to find “Stremio” of the music world. Can someone assist?\n
\n
Key features I’m looking for:\n
\n
- Synchronization between devices\n
- Offline play\n
- Playlist support\n
- Both desktop and mobile apps\n
- Wide music library (optional if I will upload music)\n
- Lyrics (optional)\n
\n
Update: thanks to everyone who shared their solutions 🙏
"""
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date: 2023-11-29 23:41:53.0 +01:00
}
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+comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2722 …}
+votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2724 …}
+reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2726 …}
+favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2728 …}
+notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2730 …}
+badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2732 …}
+children: [
3 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2097
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2389 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1727 …}
+image: null
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2083 …}
+root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2387 …}
+body: "Ah sorry! I have only run it from within Docker on Linux. BUT, I'm glad you got it working!"
+lang: "en"
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"@iso@lemy.lol"
"@Dasnap@lemmy.world"
"@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social"
"@TacoNissan@lemmy.zip"
]
+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2082 …}
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+createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699569065 {#2076
date: 2023-11-09 23:31:05.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 105688
}
1 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#1361
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+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2389 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1727 …}
+image: null
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#1362 …}
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+body: "Thanks!"
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}
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"@iso@lemy.lol"
"@Dasnap@lemmy.world"
"@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social"
"@watson387@sopuli.xyz"
"@Damage@feddit.it"
]
+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1403 …}
+nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2023 …}
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-id: 102608
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date: 2023-11-08 21:59:03.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 102608
}
2 => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2029
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+image: null
+parent: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2012 …}
+root: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\EntryComment {#2387 …}
+body: """
I was about to move from Plex to Emby when the whole controversy erupted, and I waited excitedly for it to be ready.\n
\n
Switched as soon as it was viable and have not regretted it one time.
"""
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+isAdult: false
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date: 2023-11-09 00:29:56.0 +01:00
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"@iso@lemy.lol"
"@Dasnap@lemmy.world"
"@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social"
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]
+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2020 …}
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date: 2023-11-09 13:28:05.0 +01:00
}
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date: 2023-11-08 10:47:51.0 +01:00
}
+__isInitialized__: true
…2
}
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}
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"@iso@lemy.lol"
"@Dasnap@lemmy.world"
"@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social"
"@watson387@sopuli.xyz"
"@Damage@feddit.it"
"@lea@feddit.de"
]
+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2392 …}
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date: 2023-11-08 13:54:17.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 101499
} |
|
Show voter details
|
| 113 |
DENIED
|
ROLE_USER
|
null |
|
Show voter details
|
| 114 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2384
+user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2718 …}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2378 …}
+image: null
+domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2555 …}
+slug: "whats-a-song-you-heard-for-the-first-time-recently"
+title: "whats a song you heard for the first time recently that gave you a powerful reaction?"
+url: null
+body: """
Recently heard “feed the machine” for the first time and instantly wanna go destroy capatilsm and like join a picket line against the wealthy elite.\n
\n
Any of you discover a song recently that just hit hard?
"""
+type: "article"
+lang: "en"
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date: 2023-11-10 06:33:34.0 +01:00
}
+ip: null
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+comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2758 …}
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+favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2765 …}
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+children: [
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2385
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2384 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2378 …}
+image: null
+parent: null
+root: null
+body: """
I have been slowly dipping my toes in Brother Ali the past few months, and recently listened to this for the first time. His voice is awesome but some of the words may be a little hard to catch. It's worth looking up the lyrics.\n
\n
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OO18F4aKGzQ>\n
\n
His voice is like caramel in my ears (in the most complimentary way), but it's his lyrics that get me in this and a few others.
"""
+lang: "en"
+isAdult: false
+favouriteCount: 1
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date: 2023-11-05 01:46:25.0 +01:00
}
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"@ericbomb@lemmy.world"
]
+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2379 …}
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date: 2023-11-04 20:15:51.0 +01:00
}
+__isInitialized__: true
…2
} |
|
Show voter details
|
| 115 |
DENIED
|
edit
|
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2384
+user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2718 …}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2378 …}
+image: null
+domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2555 …}
+slug: "whats-a-song-you-heard-for-the-first-time-recently"
+title: "whats a song you heard for the first time recently that gave you a powerful reaction?"
+url: null
+body: """
Recently heard “feed the machine” for the first time and instantly wanna go destroy capatilsm and like join a picket line against the wealthy elite.\n
\n
Any of you discover a song recently that just hit hard?
"""
+type: "article"
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}
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+favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2765 …}
+notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2767 …}
+badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2769 …}
+children: [
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2385
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2384 …2}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2378 …}
+image: null
+parent: null
+root: null
+body: """
I have been slowly dipping my toes in Brother Ali the past few months, and recently listened to this for the first time. His voice is awesome but some of the words may be a little hard to catch. It's worth looking up the lyrics.\n
\n
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OO18F4aKGzQ>\n
\n
His voice is like caramel in my ears (in the most complimentary way), but it's his lyrics that get me in this and a few others.
"""
+lang: "en"
+isAdult: false
+favouriteCount: 1
+score: 0
+lastActive: DateTime @1699145185 {#2386
date: 2023-11-05 01:46:25.0 +01:00
}
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"@ericbomb@lemmy.world"
]
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date: 2023-11-05 00:49:55.0 +01:00
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date: 2023-11-04 20:15:51.0 +01:00
}
+__isInitialized__: true
…2
} |
|
Show voter details
|
| 116 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2384
+user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2718 …}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2378 …}
+image: null
+domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2555 …}
+slug: "whats-a-song-you-heard-for-the-first-time-recently"
+title: "whats a song you heard for the first time recently that gave you a powerful reaction?"
+url: null
+body: """
Recently heard “feed the machine” for the first time and instantly wanna go destroy capatilsm and like join a picket line against the wealthy elite.\n
\n
Any of you discover a song recently that just hit hard?
"""
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+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2378 …}
+image: null
+parent: null
+root: null
+body: """
I have been slowly dipping my toes in Brother Ali the past few months, and recently listened to this for the first time. His voice is awesome but some of the words may be a little hard to catch. It's worth looking up the lyrics.\n
\n
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OO18F4aKGzQ>\n
\n
His voice is like caramel in my ears (in the most complimentary way), but it's his lyrics that get me in this and a few others.
"""
+lang: "en"
+isAdult: false
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date: 2023-11-05 01:46:25.0 +01:00
}
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"@ericbomb@lemmy.world"
]
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+createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699141795 {#2382
date: 2023-11-05 00:49:55.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 91181
}
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date: 2023-11-04 20:15:51.0 +01:00
}
+__isInitialized__: true
…2
} |
|
Show voter details
|
| 117 |
DENIED
|
ROLE_USER
|
null |
|
Show voter details
|
| 118 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2385
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2384
+user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2718 …}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2378 …}
+image: null
+domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2555 …}
+slug: "whats-a-song-you-heard-for-the-first-time-recently"
+title: "whats a song you heard for the first time recently that gave you a powerful reaction?"
+url: null
+body: """
Recently heard “feed the machine” for the first time and instantly wanna go destroy capatilsm and like join a picket line against the wealthy elite.\n
\n
Any of you discover a song recently that just hit hard?
"""
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2385}
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date: 2023-11-04 20:15:51.0 +01:00
}
+__isInitialized__: true
…2
}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2378 …}
+image: null
+parent: null
+root: null
+body: """
I have been slowly dipping my toes in Brother Ali the past few months, and recently listened to this for the first time. His voice is awesome but some of the words may be a little hard to catch. It's worth looking up the lyrics.\n
\n
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OO18F4aKGzQ>\n
\n
His voice is like caramel in my ears (in the most complimentary way), but it's his lyrics that get me in this and a few others.
"""
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]
+children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2379 …}
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date: 2023-11-05 00:49:55.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 91181
} |
|
Show voter details
|
| 119 |
DENIED
|
edit
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2385
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2384
+user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2718 …}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2378 …}
+image: null
+domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2555 …}
+slug: "whats-a-song-you-heard-for-the-first-time-recently"
+title: "whats a song you heard for the first time recently that gave you a powerful reaction?"
+url: null
+body: """
Recently heard “feed the machine” for the first time and instantly wanna go destroy capatilsm and like join a picket line against the wealthy elite.\n
\n
Any of you discover a song recently that just hit hard?
"""
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date: 2023-11-04 20:15:51.0 +01:00
}
+__isInitialized__: true
…2
}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2378 …}
+image: null
+parent: null
+root: null
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I have been slowly dipping my toes in Brother Ali the past few months, and recently listened to this for the first time. His voice is awesome but some of the words may be a little hard to catch. It's worth looking up the lyrics.\n
\n
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OO18F4aKGzQ>\n
\n
His voice is like caramel in my ears (in the most complimentary way), but it's his lyrics that get me in this and a few others.
"""
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]
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+editedAt: null
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date: 2023-11-05 00:49:55.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 91181
} |
|
Show voter details
|
| 120 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#2385
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
+entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2384
+user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2718 …}
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+image: null
+domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#2555 …}
+slug: "whats-a-song-you-heard-for-the-first-time-recently"
+title: "whats a song you heard for the first time recently that gave you a powerful reaction?"
+url: null
+body: """
Recently heard “feed the machine” for the first time and instantly wanna go destroy capatilsm and like join a picket line against the wealthy elite.\n
\n
Any of you discover a song recently that just hit hard?
"""
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date: 2023-11-04 20:15:51.0 +01:00
}
+__isInitialized__: true
…2
}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2378 …}
+image: null
+parent: null
+root: null
+body: """
I have been slowly dipping my toes in Brother Ali the past few months, and recently listened to this for the first time. His voice is awesome but some of the words may be a little hard to catch. It's worth looking up the lyrics.\n
\n
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OO18F4aKGzQ>\n
\n
His voice is like caramel in my ears (in the most complimentary way), but it's his lyrics that get me in this and a few others.
"""
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]
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date: 2023-11-05 00:49:55.0 +01:00
}
+"title": 91181
} |
|
Show voter details
|
| 121 |
DENIED
|
ROLE_USER
|
null |
|
Show voter details
|
| 122 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2470
+user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2700 …}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2469 …}
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}
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2468
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+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2469 …}
+image: null
+parent: null
+root: null
+body: """
Ah, the block list is going to go up a lot as I read this thread, I'm guessing.\n
\n
If you aren't black, and you think you have a reason (or are trying to find one) where it's OK to say the N word in a non-academic context (and maybe even then), or you think you have a valid opinion on whether black folks should use it, or you think that black folks using it somehow justifies your use of it, you're either willfully ignorant of the depths to which that word has been used to dehumanize, and thus is indeed worthy of unique treatment, or you're a bigot, and likely both.\n
\n
Edit: Not as many folks falling over themselves to find the corner case where it should be OK for them as I expected. gg fediverse, you aren't quite as shitty as r****t yet.
"""
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date: 2023-11-04 12:28:55.0 +01:00
}
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"@Stamets@startrek.website"
]
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-id: 89279
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+editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699098034 {#2455
date: 2023-11-04 12:40:34.0 +01:00
}
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date: 2023-11-04 12:28:55.0 +01:00
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}
]
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+createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1698607730 {#2721
date: 2023-10-29 20:28:50.0 +01:00
}
+__isInitialized__: true
…2
} |
|
Show voter details
|
| 123 |
DENIED
|
edit
|
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2470
+user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2700 …}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2469 …}
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}
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2468
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+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#2469 …}
+image: null
+parent: null
+root: null
+body: """
Ah, the block list is going to go up a lot as I read this thread, I'm guessing.\n
\n
If you aren't black, and you think you have a reason (or are trying to find one) where it's OK to say the N word in a non-academic context (and maybe even then), or you think you have a valid opinion on whether black folks should use it, or you think that black folks using it somehow justifies your use of it, you're either willfully ignorant of the depths to which that word has been used to dehumanize, and thus is indeed worthy of unique treatment, or you're a bigot, and likely both.\n
\n
Edit: Not as many folks falling over themselves to find the corner case where it should be OK for them as I expected. gg fediverse, you aren't quite as shitty as r****t yet.
"""
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date: 2023-11-04 12:40:34.0 +01:00
}
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date: 2023-10-29 20:28:50.0 +01:00
}
+__isInitialized__: true
…2
} |
|
Show voter details
|
| 124 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2470
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+slug: "NO"
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2468
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Ah, the block list is going to go up a lot as I read this thread, I'm guessing.\n
\n
If you aren't black, and you think you have a reason (or are trying to find one) where it's OK to say the N word in a non-academic context (and maybe even then), or you think you have a valid opinion on whether black folks should use it, or you think that black folks using it somehow justifies your use of it, you're either willfully ignorant of the depths to which that word has been used to dehumanize, and thus is indeed worthy of unique treatment, or you're a bigot, and likely both.\n
\n
Edit: Not as many folks falling over themselves to find the corner case where it should be OK for them as I expected. gg fediverse, you aren't quite as shitty as r****t yet.
"""
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Show voter details
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| 125 |
DENIED
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Show voter details
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| 126 |
DENIED
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moderate
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2468
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Ah, the block list is going to go up a lot as I read this thread, I'm guessing.\n
\n
If you aren't black, and you think you have a reason (or are trying to find one) where it's OK to say the N word in a non-academic context (and maybe even then), or you think you have a valid opinion on whether black folks should use it, or you think that black folks using it somehow justifies your use of it, you're either willfully ignorant of the depths to which that word has been used to dehumanize, and thus is indeed worthy of unique treatment, or you're a bigot, and likely both.\n
\n
Edit: Not as many folks falling over themselves to find the corner case where it should be OK for them as I expected. gg fediverse, you aren't quite as shitty as r****t yet.
"""
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} |
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Show voter details
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| 127 |
DENIED
|
edit
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2468
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…2
}
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Ah, the block list is going to go up a lot as I read this thread, I'm guessing.\n
\n
If you aren't black, and you think you have a reason (or are trying to find one) where it's OK to say the N word in a non-academic context (and maybe even then), or you think you have a valid opinion on whether black folks should use it, or you think that black folks using it somehow justifies your use of it, you're either willfully ignorant of the depths to which that word has been used to dehumanize, and thus is indeed worthy of unique treatment, or you're a bigot, and likely both.\n
\n
Edit: Not as many folks falling over themselves to find the corner case where it should be OK for them as I expected. gg fediverse, you aren't quite as shitty as r****t yet.
"""
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+"title": 89279
} |
|
Show voter details
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| 128 |
DENIED
|
moderate
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#2468
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Ah, the block list is going to go up a lot as I read this thread, I'm guessing.\n
\n
If you aren't black, and you think you have a reason (or are trying to find one) where it's OK to say the N word in a non-academic context (and maybe even then), or you think you have a valid opinion on whether black folks should use it, or you think that black folks using it somehow justifies your use of it, you're either willfully ignorant of the depths to which that word has been used to dehumanize, and thus is indeed worthy of unique treatment, or you're a bigot, and likely both.\n
\n
Edit: Not as many folks falling over themselves to find the corner case where it should be OK for them as I expected. gg fediverse, you aren't quite as shitty as r****t yet.
"""
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date: 2023-11-04 12:28:55.0 +01:00
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} |
|
Show voter details
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| 129 |
DENIED
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ROLE_USER
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null |
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| 130 |
DENIED
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moderate
|
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2465
+user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2505 …}
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+slug: "No-Way-To-Prevent-This-Says-Only-Nation-Where-This"
+title: "‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens"
+url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/3cb038f8-e503-4d13-ab33-6db7c03e662e.jpeg"
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+body: """
> you should clarify what exactly you mean by ‘free’, cause as an outsider it just seems like you have the freedom to get indiscriminatly mowed down by high powered rifles owned by mentally ill spree shooters.\n
\n
As an insider it seems like this too.\n
\n
But to the guy you replied to it's most likely the freedom to have a gun which you never do those bad things with, while also plugging your ears regarding the reality that the same laws protecting your ability to have a gun and not do those bad things are enabling that endless stream of indiscriminate deaths by the folks who do those bad things.\n
\n
And although I don't know him personally, he probably also deflects to mental health being the cause while continuing to vote for the party that both is responsible for our lack of mental health infrastructure and also refuses to consider restrictions on gun ownership.
"""
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Show voter details
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edit
|
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2465
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+slug: "No-Way-To-Prevent-This-Says-Only-Nation-Where-This"
+title: "‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens"
+url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/3cb038f8-e503-4d13-ab33-6db7c03e662e.jpeg"
+body: "Here we go again…"
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+body: """
> you should clarify what exactly you mean by ‘free’, cause as an outsider it just seems like you have the freedom to get indiscriminatly mowed down by high powered rifles owned by mentally ill spree shooters.\n
\n
As an insider it seems like this too.\n
\n
But to the guy you replied to it's most likely the freedom to have a gun which you never do those bad things with, while also plugging your ears regarding the reality that the same laws protecting your ability to have a gun and not do those bad things are enabling that endless stream of indiscriminate deaths by the folks who do those bad things.\n
\n
And although I don't know him personally, he probably also deflects to mental health being the cause while continuing to vote for the party that both is responsible for our lack of mental health infrastructure and also refuses to consider restrictions on gun ownership.
"""
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"@agitatedpotato@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
"@ryathal@sh.itjust.works"
"@tryptaminev@feddit.de"
"@ghost_of_faso2@lemmygrad.ml"
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…2
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|
Show voter details
|
| 132 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2465
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+title: "‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens"
+url: "https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/3cb038f8-e503-4d13-ab33-6db7c03e662e.jpeg"
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+body: """
> you should clarify what exactly you mean by ‘free’, cause as an outsider it just seems like you have the freedom to get indiscriminatly mowed down by high powered rifles owned by mentally ill spree shooters.\n
\n
As an insider it seems like this too.\n
\n
But to the guy you replied to it's most likely the freedom to have a gun which you never do those bad things with, while also plugging your ears regarding the reality that the same laws protecting your ability to have a gun and not do those bad things are enabling that endless stream of indiscriminate deaths by the folks who do those bad things.\n
\n
And although I don't know him personally, he probably also deflects to mental health being the cause while continuing to vote for the party that both is responsible for our lack of mental health infrastructure and also refuses to consider restrictions on gun ownership.
"""
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"@ZWho63@lemmy.ml"
"@agitatedpotato@lemmy.dbzer0.com"
"@ryathal@sh.itjust.works"
"@tryptaminev@feddit.de"
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…2
} |
|
Show voter details
|
| 133 |
DENIED
|
ROLE_USER
|
null |
|
Show voter details
|
| 134 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1707
+user: App\Entity\User {#260 …}
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…2
}
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+body: """
> you should clarify what exactly you mean by ‘free’, cause as an outsider it just seems like you have the freedom to get indiscriminatly mowed down by high powered rifles owned by mentally ill spree shooters.\n
\n
As an insider it seems like this too.\n
\n
But to the guy you replied to it's most likely the freedom to have a gun which you never do those bad things with, while also plugging your ears regarding the reality that the same laws protecting your ability to have a gun and not do those bad things are enabling that endless stream of indiscriminate deaths by the folks who do those bad things.\n
\n
And although I don't know him personally, he probably also deflects to mental health being the cause while continuing to vote for the party that both is responsible for our lack of mental health infrastructure and also refuses to consider restrictions on gun ownership.
"""
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"@ghost_of_faso2@lemmygrad.ml"
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date: 2023-10-26 18:15:15.0 +02:00
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} |
|
Show voter details
|
| 135 |
DENIED
|
edit
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1707
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…2
}
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+body: """
> you should clarify what exactly you mean by ‘free’, cause as an outsider it just seems like you have the freedom to get indiscriminatly mowed down by high powered rifles owned by mentally ill spree shooters.\n
\n
As an insider it seems like this too.\n
\n
But to the guy you replied to it's most likely the freedom to have a gun which you never do those bad things with, while also plugging your ears regarding the reality that the same laws protecting your ability to have a gun and not do those bad things are enabling that endless stream of indiscriminate deaths by the folks who do those bad things.\n
\n
And although I don't know him personally, he probably also deflects to mental health being the cause while continuing to vote for the party that both is responsible for our lack of mental health infrastructure and also refuses to consider restrictions on gun ownership.
"""
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date: 2023-10-26 18:15:15.0 +02:00
}
+"title": 73308
} |
|
Show voter details
|
| 136 |
DENIED
|
moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1707
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+body: """
> you should clarify what exactly you mean by ‘free’, cause as an outsider it just seems like you have the freedom to get indiscriminatly mowed down by high powered rifles owned by mentally ill spree shooters.\n
\n
As an insider it seems like this too.\n
\n
But to the guy you replied to it's most likely the freedom to have a gun which you never do those bad things with, while also plugging your ears regarding the reality that the same laws protecting your ability to have a gun and not do those bad things are enabling that endless stream of indiscriminate deaths by the folks who do those bad things.\n
\n
And although I don't know him personally, he probably also deflects to mental health being the cause while continuing to vote for the party that both is responsible for our lack of mental health infrastructure and also refuses to consider restrictions on gun ownership.
"""
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Show voter details
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| 137 |
DENIED
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ROLE_USER
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Show voter details
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| 138 |
DENIED
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moderate
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1629
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Anakin has a clear motive, and a logical progression from naive to evil.\n
\n
Danny just decides to lose her shit one day.
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Show voter details
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| 139 |
DENIED
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edit
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1629
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Anakin has a clear motive, and a logical progression from naive to evil.\n
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Danny just decides to lose her shit one day.
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Show voter details
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| 140 |
DENIED
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moderate
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1629
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Show voter details
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| 141 |
DENIED
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ROLE_USER
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Show voter details
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| 142 |
DENIED
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moderate
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
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Show voter details
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| 143 |
DENIED
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edit
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
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Anakin has a clear motive, and a logical progression from naive to evil.\n
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Danny just decides to lose her shit one day.
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date: 2023-10-13 22:16:07.0 +02:00
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} |
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Show voter details
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| 144 |
DENIED
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moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1630
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+slug: "D-and-D-had-multiple-10-episode-seasons-to-get"
+title: "D and D had multiple 10 episode seasons to get it done. Lucas did it in three movies."
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Anakin has a clear motive, and a logical progression from naive to evil.\n
\n
Danny just decides to lose her shit one day.
"""
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+body: "Fair. You aren't missing the pinnacle of cinema either. If you're going to watch one new (to you) Star Wars movie this year - make it Rogue One if you haven't seen it. It's the best Star Wars movie this century IMO. (By a lot.)"
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|
Show voter details
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| 145 |
DENIED
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| 146 |
DENIED
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moderate
|
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1732
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Ah Sony Music is involved.\n
\n
Remember the time Sony Music installed a rootkit on peoples' computers via commercially purchased CDs because hacking paying customers' computers seemed like a good way to combat piracy?\n
\n
[Pepperidge Farm Remembers.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal#XCP_rootkit)
"""
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…2
} |
|
Show voter details
|
| 147 |
DENIED
|
edit
|
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1732
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Ah Sony Music is involved.\n
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Remember the time Sony Music installed a rootkit on peoples' computers via commercially purchased CDs because hacking paying customers' computers seemed like a good way to combat piracy?\n
\n
[Pepperidge Farm Remembers.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal#XCP_rootkit)
"""
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…2
} |
|
Show voter details
|
| 148 |
DENIED
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moderate
|
Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1732
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Ah Sony Music is involved.\n
\n
Remember the time Sony Music installed a rootkit on peoples' computers via commercially purchased CDs because hacking paying customers' computers seemed like a good way to combat piracy?\n
\n
[Pepperidge Farm Remembers.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal#XCP_rootkit)
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…2
} |
|
Show voter details
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| 149 |
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| 150 |
DENIED
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moderate
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1734
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Ah Sony Music is involved.\n
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Remember the time Sony Music installed a rootkit on peoples' computers via commercially purchased CDs because hacking paying customers' computers seemed like a good way to combat piracy?\n
\n
[Pepperidge Farm Remembers.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal#XCP_rootkit)
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Show voter details
|
| 151 |
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edit
|
App\Entity\EntryComment {#1734
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Ah Sony Music is involved.\n
\n
Remember the time Sony Music installed a rootkit on peoples' computers via commercially purchased CDs because hacking paying customers' computers seemed like a good way to combat piracy?\n
\n
[Pepperidge Farm Remembers.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal#XCP_rootkit)
"""
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} |
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Show voter details
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| 152 |
DENIED
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moderate
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#1734
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…2
}
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Ah Sony Music is involved.\n
\n
Remember the time Sony Music installed a rootkit on peoples' computers via commercially purchased CDs because hacking paying customers' computers seemed like a good way to combat piracy?\n
\n
[Pepperidge Farm Remembers.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal#XCP_rootkit)
"""
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Show voter details
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| 153 |
DENIED
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ROLE_USER
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null |
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Show voter details
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DENIED
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moderate
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1619
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+title: "What anime world would you rather not live in?"
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+body: """
So I tried watching Redo of Healer solely based on someone saying it was too disturbing to watch. As someone who doesn't normally enjoy any anime someone would describe that way, I still felt compelled to take the challenge.\n
\n
The only thing I have previously watched that I'd call truly disturbing was Gantz - and that *was* awful, but still had a sort of "can't look away" vibe. (But once was enough.)\n
\n
I made it a couple episodes into Redo of Healer and I'm not sure I can go on. The very first episode more or less shows you what happens to side characters (and sometimes main characters) in this world, and it's just chilling in the malevolence on display from the group in power. The protagonist is on a revenge arc, but despite what was done to him, he's immediately just as bad or worse than his tormentors were, so he's impossible to root for, and the story is centered around him.\n
\n
I'm not at all certain I'll be finishing it, and nothing I've watched would be as awful for a side character. I'd rather be a common villager in Attack on Titan than any character at all, especially a side character, in Redo of Healer.
"""
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…2
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Show voter details
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| 155 |
DENIED
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edit
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1619
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+body: """
So I tried watching Redo of Healer solely based on someone saying it was too disturbing to watch. As someone who doesn't normally enjoy any anime someone would describe that way, I still felt compelled to take the challenge.\n
\n
The only thing I have previously watched that I'd call truly disturbing was Gantz - and that *was* awful, but still had a sort of "can't look away" vibe. (But once was enough.)\n
\n
I made it a couple episodes into Redo of Healer and I'm not sure I can go on. The very first episode more or less shows you what happens to side characters (and sometimes main characters) in this world, and it's just chilling in the malevolence on display from the group in power. The protagonist is on a revenge arc, but despite what was done to him, he's immediately just as bad or worse than his tormentors were, so he's impossible to root for, and the story is centered around him.\n
\n
I'm not at all certain I'll be finishing it, and nothing I've watched would be as awful for a side character. I'd rather be a common villager in Attack on Titan than any character at all, especially a side character, in Redo of Healer.
"""
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…2
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Show voter details
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| 156 |
DENIED
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moderate
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1619
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+body: """
So I tried watching Redo of Healer solely based on someone saying it was too disturbing to watch. As someone who doesn't normally enjoy any anime someone would describe that way, I still felt compelled to take the challenge.\n
\n
The only thing I have previously watched that I'd call truly disturbing was Gantz - and that *was* awful, but still had a sort of "can't look away" vibe. (But once was enough.)\n
\n
I made it a couple episodes into Redo of Healer and I'm not sure I can go on. The very first episode more or less shows you what happens to side characters (and sometimes main characters) in this world, and it's just chilling in the malevolence on display from the group in power. The protagonist is on a revenge arc, but despite what was done to him, he's immediately just as bad or worse than his tormentors were, so he's impossible to root for, and the story is centered around him.\n
\n
I'm not at all certain I'll be finishing it, and nothing I've watched would be as awful for a side character. I'd rather be a common villager in Attack on Titan than any character at all, especially a side character, in Redo of Healer.
"""
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…2
} |
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Show voter details
|
| 157 |
DENIED
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ROLE_USER
|
null |
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Show voter details
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| 158 |
DENIED
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moderate
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#1701
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…2
}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1613 …}
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So I tried watching Redo of Healer solely based on someone saying it was too disturbing to watch. As someone who doesn't normally enjoy any anime someone would describe that way, I still felt compelled to take the challenge.\n
\n
The only thing I have previously watched that I'd call truly disturbing was Gantz - and that *was* awful, but still had a sort of "can't look away" vibe. (But once was enough.)\n
\n
I made it a couple episodes into Redo of Healer and I'm not sure I can go on. The very first episode more or less shows you what happens to side characters (and sometimes main characters) in this world, and it's just chilling in the malevolence on display from the group in power. The protagonist is on a revenge arc, but despite what was done to him, he's immediately just as bad or worse than his tormentors were, so he's impossible to root for, and the story is centered around him.\n
\n
I'm not at all certain I'll be finishing it, and nothing I've watched would be as awful for a side character. I'd rather be a common villager in Attack on Titan than any character at all, especially a side character, in Redo of Healer.
"""
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Show voter details
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| 159 |
DENIED
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edit
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#1701
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…2
}
+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1613 …}
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So I tried watching Redo of Healer solely based on someone saying it was too disturbing to watch. As someone who doesn't normally enjoy any anime someone would describe that way, I still felt compelled to take the challenge.\n
\n
The only thing I have previously watched that I'd call truly disturbing was Gantz - and that *was* awful, but still had a sort of "can't look away" vibe. (But once was enough.)\n
\n
I made it a couple episodes into Redo of Healer and I'm not sure I can go on. The very first episode more or less shows you what happens to side characters (and sometimes main characters) in this world, and it's just chilling in the malevolence on display from the group in power. The protagonist is on a revenge arc, but despite what was done to him, he's immediately just as bad or worse than his tormentors were, so he's impossible to root for, and the story is centered around him.\n
\n
I'm not at all certain I'll be finishing it, and nothing I've watched would be as awful for a side character. I'd rather be a common villager in Attack on Titan than any character at all, especially a side character, in Redo of Healer.
"""
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Show voter details
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| 160 |
DENIED
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moderate
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App\Entity\EntryComment {#1701
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…2
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+magazine: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Magazine {#1613 …}
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So I tried watching Redo of Healer solely based on someone saying it was too disturbing to watch. As someone who doesn't normally enjoy any anime someone would describe that way, I still felt compelled to take the challenge.\n
\n
The only thing I have previously watched that I'd call truly disturbing was Gantz - and that *was* awful, but still had a sort of "can't look away" vibe. (But once was enough.)\n
\n
I made it a couple episodes into Redo of Healer and I'm not sure I can go on. The very first episode more or less shows you what happens to side characters (and sometimes main characters) in this world, and it's just chilling in the malevolence on display from the group in power. The protagonist is on a revenge arc, but despite what was done to him, he's immediately just as bad or worse than his tormentors were, so he's impossible to root for, and the story is centered around him.\n
\n
I'm not at all certain I'll be finishing it, and nothing I've watched would be as awful for a side character. I'd rather be a common villager in Attack on Titan than any character at all, especially a side character, in Redo of Healer.
"""
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Show voter details
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| 161 |
DENIED
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ROLE_USER
|
null |
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Show voter details
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| 162 |
DENIED
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moderate
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1549
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Show voter details
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| 163 |
DENIED
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edit
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1549
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Show voter details
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| 164 |
DENIED
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moderate
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Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1549
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