If they can live there permanently, they’re not homeless, are they? And that sounds surprisingly anti-capitalistic, almost like what this meme is talking about.
Getting these people help makes sense from a capitalist perspective too, help them and they can work again and probably do a full life of that. It really isn’t anti-capitalist.
Why is it not a residence if you can stay there indefinitely? That sounds like a residence to me. The Internet tells me that ‘residence’ means ‘the place in which one lives; a dwelling.’ If they don’t ever have to leave, they live there.
You have to be fucking dumb. Get the fuck out. AcTuAlLy LoL ThE iNtErNeT blablabla. Do you really think a fucking chamber that you can only go to sleep is a fucking residence ? Are you a moron ?? Get an education dumb fuck.
While it is true that there was inexpensive housing available in the USSR, and that rents were quite reasonable compared to anything that currently exists in the US, and people couldn’t readily be evicted if they lacked the ability to pay, it’s a flat-out lie to say that that was the “solution” to homelessness, or that it eliminated the problem. Rather, the USSR criminalized being homeless and not being engaged in socially-productive labor; people that were homeless ended up in prisons and were labelled as parasites. The problem that we have now is that the official records simply didn’t record the problem, in much the same way that Stalin had histories and photos revised to eliminate people that had become enemies of the state.
Rather, the USSR criminalized being homeless and not being engaged in socially-productive labor; people that were homeless ended up in prisons and were labelled as parasites.
Swap USSR with USA and the statement remains true. Though Im sure the degree of severity was much greater in the USSR.
Prison would be a step up for a lot of them. They receive other punishments, like having all their belongings confiscated wherever a cop or some bureaucrat decides they’re getting in the way too much.
I was homeless and police literally made up a reason to put me in jail and label me as a felon to make me be cheap labor when I plead guilty just to get out. No fair and speedy trial during COVID. I live in the US.
What the law tells you it’s doing and what they’re actually doing are very different. Don’t try to tell me different because I’m a first hand example. If you’re interested in the full story, let me know and I can do a Discord call or something.
That’s kind of true in some parts of the US, indirectly. Some places criminalize not being homeless but all the things that are the result of being homeless like sleeping outside or in public places. But there are a lot of places in the US that do provide for the homeless. New York City has a right to housing provision, for example.
And it fucking shouldnt be the case. Ensuring basic humanity and human dignity should be a key matter of the federal government and not delegated to the whimps of states opinions on waht constitutes human rights.
If we set a national policy today and didn’t allow local governments to set their own policies, I’m pretty sure we’d have a national policy of no help for the homeless at all. Be happy the places that do have support are allowed to because of states’ rights.
Taking away people’s businesses is a good thing actually, and free speech doesn’t exist in capitalist cultures either, anything threatening the regime will be dealt with. Capitalism just has a wider range of things you can say that aren’t threatening because it has a more stable hegemony for now due to its historical position.
Nah it’s not, taking away people believe they can built something made most people dull factory workers and those who were extra regime supportive were put in the post to build something but they often didn’t have the abilities . It’s hard to put it into words but you couldn’t have just make startup with nee awesome idea because people in the posts would not let you unless it meant increasing quota.
, taking away people believe they can built something made most people dull factory workers
Workers do not see the full fruits of their labor under capitalism, that is right! When worker self management in Catalonia started, factory output increased by 30 percent over the course of a month. :)
Everything is political, buddy. Maybe stop plugging your ears every time you see a drop of political discourse that you disagree with and start listening.
Start listening to a post made by an obvious talkie that has the depth of your mom? The only “argument” in this post is “hahahahahahaha communism good hahahahaha”.
If you want a political discourse I’m open to that. But to start with such a closed minded view is not the right ground to start a discussion. I even agree with this one, but the way this is presented should not be on a meme sub.
Tf? Politics are currently pretty difficult and I am spending way to much of my time discussing it. Excuse me for just wanting to see a few bad memes on a meme sub and not slide into the next discussion. I don’t even know what to answer to bullshit like this. You know what also was “literal nazi talking point”? Food. Sex. Drugs. After all they are still human and a human is defined by more than just their ideology.
Hey OP, comunistm is great on paper because it doesn’t take into consideration the human nature. Humans are corruptible, no matter who, and even the best of us would be corrupted when it comes to someone they love. This alone breaks the comunist stance because you can’t have fairness when one human is responsable for managing/governing. Comunism would work if there was no hierarchy between humans, no one more powerful. Maybe if some aliens come or if some AI evolve enough to govern, but that’s is not today’s world
Edit: I do think the US level of captalism is horrible. Maybe begin with just SOME socialist policies, like free healthcare and univesities, that would already improve so much the lifes of americans
Hey Commenter, it sounds like you only have a surface level understanding of Communism, i suggest you read some theory. Communism very much takes human greed into account, its kind of its whole point.
You are right I really don’t, but not all theory translates well into reality. How would a country of milions manage all that without hierarchy? I’m not going against you I’m just trying to understand how would this work without a dictatorship and considering that humans are not trustworthy
You seem to be at least a little bit interested, I suggest you watch some videos on youtube so you understand it better, the channel Second Thought would be a good place to start.
I’ll try to answer your concerns below:
The current ideology of society is the ideology of its rulling class.
Human nature, if anything is much more about collaboration and collective effort than greed, that’s how it has been for most of human history.
That is to say, we precisely see so much greed everywhere because we live in a system that heavily incentivizes individuality and greed. From the way we are taught to the media we consume, it’s literally everywhere. We are heavily influenced to think and see things in this particular individualistic way.
A society that puts human needs and collective effort above profits have a different way of viewing and interacting with the world than the way we do in capitalist societies. Besides that, if your concern is people abusing power, there should be mechanisms in place to account for that.
My knowledge on this whole topic is not deep, but I guess something you could look up is democratic centralism to understand how hierarchy works in a marxist-leninist socialist state.
Also, my understanding is that marxist theory is only dogmatic in relation to it’s method, as everything else about it adapts to the reality and the material conditions of the time and place it is to be put into practice.
you can’t have fairness when one human is responsable for managing/governing.
I would say that you have left your society and government open to the inevitably of corruption when you place the power in one person’s hands. I’ve been advocating for elected councils to run the system. It’s not impossible to corrupt an elected council, one needs look no further than the US Congress, or whatever they call the CCP massive room of people. I would propose that just having a council is not enough, one also needs to have a more robust voting system such as Ranked Choice Voting, or another runoff system so that you don’t end up with a choice between two shit sandwiches. We also need to abolish policing, as it is currently done, as a career. I’m not certain how to fix this one, and perhaps we can’t without actual incorruptible androids and AI.
The real issue is that we the people have tried to implement these changes only for the rich old fossils to refuse the will of the people. Just look at what is happening with Measure 1&2 in Ohio.
I don’t think there is an imediate solution. Humams can not be trusted with power, it’s human nature. I see only 2 ways, either someone/thing else does it or, a more realistic one, technology becomes so powerful that we can manage the managers, monitoring their actions/choices (and voting?! maybe?!) Idk, but remember that tech is a sword and not a knife, if it monitors them.they would also monitor us.
Anyway there is no simple solution. Captalism as is today and comunism as is today are both bad options.
It’s not always a question of the quantity of houses, but the affordability. Seeing rent being waaaay higher than mortgages were 30yrs ago is always shocking. The house i sold 15yrs ago for 600k is now worth 1.3m. And it would need a big renovation. This is sheer madness.
Then how do you explain the fact that when you count up the single family, and multi family homes that have sat empty for at least 12 months, you end up with a number that is 72:1 times higher than the homeless population of the US?
We only build luxury housing, and that gets snapped up by investors, and left to sit empty and rot. Meanwhile we have about 1.5 million people that sleep outside, and get harassed by practically everyone.
How much supply is needed to bring the price down then?
While I agree that in general there is a problem with zoning laws making it all but illegal to build anything other than single family homes, markets work in such a way that the price is based on what people are “willing” to pay. Where a home is a fundamental necessity, this is already problematic. Nevermind the huge increase in access to money (the advent of mortgages and all of the policy surrounding them) driving up the demand side of the equation.
So when the options are: Homelessness (kind of illegal) Renting (very expensive) Buying (even more expensive)
Foregoing any participation in the housing market isn’t really an option.
As a side note: the simple supply/demand model is from econ 101, and I really think it’s unwise to make decisions based on first year university textbooks.
Of course, the supply of housing is not the only factor. Another is the investors buying up property which you mentioned, and the fact that people selling houses just know that they can get away with high pricing. Both of these need to be fixed, in addition to the low supply of housing.
I am genuinely curious, I couldn’t find what Communism did to Finland. There was the civil war between socialist and non- socialists, but this can’t be blamed on one ideology over the other, the Soviets invaded southern Finland to “liberate” the “reds” in the south, but this also isn’t able to be blamed on Communism, as it was the Soviets. And then Finland sided with the axis powers and attacked the Soviets, including the siege of Leningrad leading to mass suffering and starvation of “communists”.
I do not come from Finland so it’s hard for me to know much about the history outside of what I can read. I just pulled most of these facts from Wikipedia (a liberal western source), so if you are willing I would appreciate some insight.
Nothing, that’s why the country works and it’s the sole reason why Finland is the economical and progressive exception to rest of eastern europe. Had Finland been subjected to forms of fascism, such as communism, we too would have to battle for basic human rights (eg. trans rights are non-existant under communist regimes, and unfortunately that sentiment is still rooted in ex-block values) and economical and institutional downturns rest of the old communist block countries are now hard at work at dismantling. It’s crazy how destructive one sick ideology can be to a region and it’s people.
But yeah, we did - under capitalism - fix homelessness by literally giving housing to everyone who wanted housing.
Forms of Fascism such as Communism. Lmao. Also what Finland has done to eradicate homelessness would be decried as Socialism and Communism in the United States. I love that your Municipalities own housing and views it as a human right and not as a commodity. The free market didn’t fix the housing crisis the government did.
would be decried as Socialism and Communism in the United States
Ok? If the definition of communism is whatever Americans decry as socialist/communist, then a whole lotta things are communist.
The free market didn’t fix the housing crisis the government did.
Your point being? That Finland isn’t a capitalist country? That wide social safety nets can’t exist within a capitalist society? Real Communism™ are the things capitalist countries do that end up being good, while somehow actual communist countries aren’t real communist countries since they ended up shafted? Any other borderline psychotic conclusion you want me to jump to or is this all?
This is where I live. It’s called Oyak Sitesi in Turkey/Antalya and it’s a beautiful place with an actual community. Very affordable too. We just did a stability test and they were also very durable to earthquakes.
Just because you’re making blocks doesnt also mean that they have to be 20 stories tall either. Here is my old house.
It wasn’t communists who came up with the idea of that type of building and it’s a common sight in many European countries, for example, which are not communist.
Give a commie block a fresh coat of paint every decade or so and they can look good (though I just don’t like flat roofs. But that’s personal taste.)
But while a somewhat run down european style house can still have some charme for longer (guess I’m biased here) a run down commie block in gray and with cracks in the facade will quickly start to look depressing.
And as they are often chosen for cost reasons inside capitalistic environments, they are often neglected.
So, the problem is not commie blocks, but how they are maintained. And as often we tend to search for the extreme examples if we (dis)like something.
I happen to live in a city that’s primarily blocks (or as we call them: Plattenbauten) and honestly, they’re pretty good houses. The structure is sound, after some renovations in the 90s and 00s, insulation and comfort are perfectly fine, and the surroundings are usually very green and pleasant.
The only real problem is, that these buildings are somewhat away from the city center due to superior socialist planning, so they are not super attractive for younger people.
Finland is capitalist and kind of solved homelessness, with there being around only 1.3k homeless people in the entire country (population: 5.6m, which means the rate of homelessness is around 0.02%).
I don’t think that communism or any ideology is an answer to homelessness, it’s pretty much the job for the government and what kind of systems/reforms they implement.
You should instead read “Riding the wave” which is a serious book that explains why social democracies rely on imperialism using one case study (Denmark I believe but I haven’t read it in forever)
In a communist society i would most likely have to live in a building like that, in capitalism i can use my skills and effort to earn money for a nice home. Only the lazy, unskilled people want communism.
Listen, I’m no tankie by any means (in the libsoc camp) but that representation on who calls themselves a communist is so bias and obviously full of venom and spite.
Are there some lazy people who like communism? Yea. There are also some lazy people that heavily push capitalism. Being lazy doesn’t predispose you to a certain economic belief structure.
Yes in Communism you would have to live in a building instead of being a bumbling idiot looking for your bootstraps to pull up in a tent underneath an overpass, while Capitalism builds luxury high rises your dumbass will never set foot in. People arent homeless because they are unskilled or lazy, they are homeless due to Material Conditions outside of their control.
“Most research shows that around 1/3 of people who are homeless have problems with alcohol and/or drugs, and around 2/3 of these people have lifetime histories of drug or alcohol use disorders”
So even if you’re right, you’d condemn the other 1/3rd to homelessness to spite the others? People that made bad decisions are still people. I hope you’ve never made any bad decisions…
Also, you’re condemning entire communities. People in desperate situations often have to turn to crime. Paying for their incarceration (or healthcare for that matter) COSTS MORE THAN JUST PROVIDING FOR THEIR BASIC NEEDS IN THE FIRST PLACE.
We should help everyone, even if it means "bad people" can take some from the system.
We should not help anyone but a tiny fraction of people so that no "bad people" can benefit from the system.
Personally, I don't really favor making the world that much worse to avoid some spoilage. We can do better than hurting a lot of people so we get the "bad" ones, who in my view are responding to material conditions, neurology, and history.
I don't know that any particular person said it, but I agree with the notion that the first sign of civilization was a human corpse, with a femur that had been broken, and then healed. A human with a broken leg is pretty screwed on their own. Someone had to help that person get food and water long enough for it to heal. Civilization is when we help each other fulfill our needs, and that's beautiful.
Your task is not to prove that drugs exist in the homeless community. For your point of them “fucking their lives up with drugs” to be true, you have to prove that their personal drug use was the catalyst for their living conditions. Do that or take the L.
And to check yourself, you might want to look up the prevalence of drug use in more affluent communities. Hint: it’s a lot.
You provided a source that says most of the homeless people are unemployed (53% of sheltered and 40% of sheltered have jobs). I provided a source that says 2/3 of homeless people have a history of drug and alcohol abuse. Do you not know what the words “most” and “majority” mean?
No, my argument was that drug use lead them to being homeless. A lot of homeless people are in rehab programs, and it helps them a lot. The source i listed is one of those programs. You seem like the one with reading comprehension issuses.
“If someone uses drugs, they deserve to be homeless.”
“It’s impossible that people would pick up a drug habit to cope with their homelessness problem.”
“Anyone else who becomes homeless is just dumb or lazy. It’s their fault they don’t have my privilege and I’ll ignore any amount of evidence to not rethink my shitty, self-entitled world view.”
YOUR source said only 1/3 have a current substance abuse issue. And my source said that 53% of homeless folks in shelters have jobs while 40% of unsheltered folks have jobs. Most homeless folks start out using shelters and then transition to living on the street as they loss hope and ergo lose employment as their Material Conditions worsen. I am done arguing with your surface level understanding of a complex crisis. I pray you and yours never experience the crushing hopelessness that is living on the street and not knowing where you will rest your head.
“A 2021 study from the University of Chicago estimates that 53% of people living in homeless shelters and 40% of unsheltered people were employed.” Most homeless folks have jobs and lose them due to worsening Material Conditions. Facts dont care about yohr feelings. source
so more than half of them are unemployed, and others are prioritising other things to spend their money on. You cant tell me 7.25 bucks per hour isn’t enough for a home and food.
Why do you think people go to drugs, most of the time it’s because their life was already bad and the drugs just made it worse. Yes, there is a percentage of people that are lazy but it is only a small margin of homeless people. There is enough well researched material on youtube about these topics on youtube. If the system doesn’t help homeless people at all it will not get better even for the people that aren’t lazy and their life just didn’t go the right way or they were exploited at their workplace to a point that they couldn’t afford living anymore.
Just because the concept of capitalism says it is possible to “work” your way to the top doesnt mean it is happening, almost every single rich person got their wealth by some means of exploitation of other people
A third of Americans live paycheck to paycheck. On average people spend a third of their paycheck on housing. That’s not a lot of room for any kind of bad situations before they become homeless. It can be something completely out of their control like a car running a light and killing their mother which sends then into depression.
Their own fault? That’s the dumbest thing I’ve read today. Yeah because most home less people are in that situation ONLY because of their own choices, not bad circumstances, right?
Like people affected by natural disasters… 🌧 🌧 🔥 🌳🔥 who had their homes destroyed and couldn’t afford to rebuild - welp- MUST BE DRUG ADDICTION
Aside, even if it is addiction, why are those people undeserving of help now? Just because there are callus jerrks who don’t care about other humans generally, doesn’t mean we’re all like that. Grow some compassion, eh?
Try to indulge me, as I try to humanize the people you are talking about in a way that might resonate with you.
Imagine you work 40hrs a week, getting paid minimum wage or next to minimum wage, the housing market continues to worsen around you as rent continues to increase but wages don’t. If you have a place already and are just barely scraping by living paycheck to paycheck, which a lot of people are these days. One small bad financial day from an emergency or unexpected cost and you’re screwed. You miss your rent payment and you get evicted. Now, if you don’t have a safety net of people, which we can’t guarantee everyone does have living family or friends that will take you in for a month while you get back on your feet, you become homeless. You get fired from work because you’ve taken too many unpaid days off to try and get your life sorted so you don’t have to sleep on the streets. Now you can’t get another job because most places won’t hire you without an address, and collecting unemployment becomes difficult because if you have no address and no direct deposit you can’t get it mailed to you to claim.
As for the drugs that you say they have chosen to ruin their lives with, a pack of cigarettes, a small bag of weed, some opiates, or alcohol costs a whole lot less than rent for a month or even a motel room for the night.
The financial and housing situation for a lot of people out there in the world is really fragile, and if you add on other issues that I didn’t list such as mental health issues, lack of education or job experience with any education you have, or existing addiction, it can really add up and make it so your going from sleeping in a small bachelor’s apartment one night to sleeping on a park bench the next.
I don’t fully ascribe to the concept of communism myself (it’s a good label for most folks but I’m too picky about nitty gritty stuff so say I like it when I would want to adjust a few things about it), but I definitely think social housing is how you fix homelessness. Cities and states / provinces waste more money dealing with homelessness the way they do now then just building them socialized housing.
If you want recent coverage from everyday people, you can find social media posts from Chinese tourists. You can always Look at the state media. You already know they’ll be bias in their own favor, but that doesn’t mean everything they publish is fake. Look for other sources for confirmation. Most of it will be boring reports, which is less likely to be exaggerated.
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