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        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
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        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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      I’m going to drop in again to say that Albucierre’s particular solution in his doctoral thesis was a mathematical closed form corner solution for tractability.\n
      \n
      We shouldn’t take the features of this limited corner case as characteristic of the drive approach. Instead, we need to understand that the point of his thesis was to demonstrate cleanly that this particular solution was viable to get around the FTL problem in general relativity.\n
      \n
      The thing is that the inertia being zero is implied one of the assumptions of the corner solution. That is, for tractability, Albucierre assumed that the ship would have no initial velocity that it would take into the warp bubble with it.\n
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      It would be mathematically messier and would require a computational approach to relax this assumption and allow the ship to have positive initial velocity, but it’s exactly what some of the folks trying to extend the model and reduce the exotic matter requirement have explored.\n
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      All to say that the elaboration of Albucierre’s approach seems likely to take it exactly in the direction of some of the distinctions the OP has noticed.\n
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      Th most significant difference that remains is that ships at warp are able observe and to receive information from outside their bubble while this seems inconsistent with a bubble in Alcubierre’s model.
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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      I’m going to drop in again to say that Albucierre’s particular solution in his doctoral thesis was a mathematical closed form corner solution for tractability.\n
      \n
      We shouldn’t take the features of this limited corner case as characteristic of the drive approach. Instead, we need to understand that the point of his thesis was to demonstrate cleanly that this particular solution was viable to get around the FTL problem in general relativity.\n
      \n
      The thing is that the inertia being zero is implied one of the assumptions of the corner solution. That is, for tractability, Albucierre assumed that the ship would have no initial velocity that it would take into the warp bubble with it.\n
      \n
      It would be mathematically messier and would require a computational approach to relax this assumption and allow the ship to have positive initial velocity, but it’s exactly what some of the folks trying to extend the model and reduce the exotic matter requirement have explored.\n
      \n
      All to say that the elaboration of Albucierre’s approach seems likely to take it exactly in the direction of some of the distinctions the OP has noticed.\n
      \n
      Th most significant difference that remains is that ships at warp are able observe and to receive information from outside their bubble while this seems inconsistent with a bubble in Alcubierre’s model.
      """
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        [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
        \n
        Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
        \n
        Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
        \n
        ##### **Rules**\n
        \n
        **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
        \n
        All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
        \n
        **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
        \n
        This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
        \n
        **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
        \n
        Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
        \n
        **4. Assume good faith.**\n
        \n
        Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
        \n
        **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
        \n
        Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
        \n
        **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
        \n
        Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
        \n
        #### **Episode Guides**\n
        \n
        The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
        \n
        - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
        - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
        - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
        - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
        """
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    +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
    +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
      \n
      I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
      \n
      I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
      \n
      So let’s begin.\n
      \n
      **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
      \n
      To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
      \n
      The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
      \n
      > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
      \n
      > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
      \n
      As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
      \n
      Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
      \n
      As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
      \n
      This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
      \n
      **What about subspace?**\n
      \n
      Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
      \n
      We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
      \n
      It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
      \n
      But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
      \n
      **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
      \n
      In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
      \n
      Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
      \n
      (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
      \n
      Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
      \n
      So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
      \n
      This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
      \n
      **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
      \n
      The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
      \n
      My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
      \n
      (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
      \n
      So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
      \n
      **Conclusion**\n
      \n
      So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
      \n
      Thank you for your attention.
      """
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        [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
        \n
        Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
        \n
        Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
        \n
        ##### **Rules**\n
        \n
        **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
        \n
        All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
        \n
        **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
        \n
        This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
        \n
        **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
        \n
        Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
        \n
        **4. Assume good faith.**\n
        \n
        Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
        \n
        **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
        \n
        Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
        \n
        **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
        \n
        Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
        \n
        #### **Episode Guides**\n
        \n
        The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
        \n
        - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
        - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
        - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
        - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
        """
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    +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
    +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
      \n
      I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
      \n
      I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
      \n
      So let’s begin.\n
      \n
      **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
      \n
      To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
      \n
      The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
      \n
      > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
      \n
      > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
      \n
      As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
      \n
      Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
      \n
      As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
      \n
      This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
      \n
      **What about subspace?**\n
      \n
      Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
      \n
      We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
      \n
      It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
      \n
      But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
      \n
      **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
      \n
      In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
      \n
      Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
      \n
      (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
      \n
      Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
      \n
      So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
      \n
      This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
      \n
      **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
      \n
      The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
      \n
      My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
      \n
      (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
      \n
      So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
      \n
      **Conclusion**\n
      \n
      So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
      \n
      Thank you for your attention.
      """
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    -titleTs: "'bubbl':5 'drive':15 'might':16 'propos':8 'real':2 'space':3 'star':12 'subspac':1 'trek':13 'warp':4,14 'work':17"
    -bodyTs: "'-01':789 '-1000':776 '-43':430,698 '/r/daystrominstitute/s/pzjyyeov7k)':104 '0.999':687 '000':1055 '1':679 '1.001':690 '1.3':427,696 '10':429,697 '1000':412,671 '1991':311 '20':1716 '200':1701 '2009':639 '22nd':785 '23rd':746 '24th':763 '65':314 '79':1054 '9.997':1052 'abil':1180 'abl':875 'absolut':1606 'acceler':228,247,525,660,1445,1488 'accord':354 'achiev':321,1866 'across':418 'act':1449,1882 'actual':111 'addit':1892 'admit':124 'advantag':44,737,1281 'aft':341 'ahead':461 'akin':1149 'alcubierr':78,857,866,911 'allow':1086,1267,1370 'along':1379,1540,1562,1573 'also':122,793,914,1469,1560,1587 'although':116 'alway':1173 'amplif':1100,1208,1343 'analog':75,1098 'anoth':1092,1201,1321 'anyth':74 'appar':377,707,806 'appear':395,416 'appli':1394 'appreci':154 'approxim':1053 'architectur':1748 'area':1132,1141 'around':53,298,490,501,519,844,909 'assist':753 'associ':1309 'asymmetr':598 'asymmetri':476 'attack':1219,1257,1269 'attempt':24 'attent':1938 'avail':289 'aw':854 'away':1523 'basic':199 'battl':1121 'becom':657,1404 'begin':189 'boundari':421,685 'bubbl':905,913,1225,1278,1346,1359,1372,1389,1418,1435,1498,1531,1558,1568,1792,1842,1875 'buff':1159 'build':353 'built':770 'bussard':464 'c':234,251,264,276,285,405,420,443,530,676,688,691,711,1056,1408,1607,1653,1774 'call':1125,1206 'came':300 'cano':1545 'carri':1561 'caught':1492 'center':1133 'centuri':747,764,786 'chang':1501 'circumv':1332 'clear':1008 'close':1131 'coil':447,769,796 'compar':1690 'complet':898 'concert':329 'conclus':1824 'conflat':95 'connect':1422 'construct':178 'continu':1455 'contrast':722 'control':335 'correspond':1672,1753 'could':819 'counter':1167 'counterpart':1695 'coupl':1464 'craft':55 'creat':473,773,1129,1344,1817 'critic':388 'cruis':1572 'cumul':371 'current':1565 'd':153 'dampen':634 'damper':1459 'deal':193 'defens':1247 'deja':543 'depend':1189,1745 'describ':33 'descript':290 'differ':862 'difficulti':979 'dimension':1585,1681 'direct':342 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    +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1727983128 {#3128
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      date: 2024-01-23 15:54:13.0 +01:00
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    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
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}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 20.0 MiB 0.60 ms
Input props
[
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    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#1446 …}
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    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1442 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1409 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1635 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1634 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1539 …}
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    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1572 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1579 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1528 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1567 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1574 …}
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    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1555 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1620 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1562 …}
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    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1721 …}
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    }
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  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#3479
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  +height: 40
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    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#1446 …}
    +cover: null
    +email: "StillPaisleyCat@startrek.website"
    +username: "@StillPaisleyCat@startrek.website"
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      date: 2024-10-05 22:32:13.0 +02:00
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      date: 2023-06-22 23:57:30.0 +02:00
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}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 20.0 MiB 0.51 ms
Input props
[
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    +user: App\Entity\User {#1660
      +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#1446 …}
      +cover: null
      +email: "StillPaisleyCat@startrek.website"
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      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
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      +lastActive: DateTime @1728160333 {#1898
        date: 2024-10-05 22:32:13.0 +02:00
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      +markedForDeletionAt: null
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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      I’m going to drop in again to say that Albucierre’s particular solution in his doctoral thesis was a mathematical closed form corner solution for tractability.\n
      \n
      We shouldn’t take the features of this limited corner case as characteristic of the drive approach. Instead, we need to understand that the point of his thesis was to demonstrate cleanly that this particular solution was viable to get around the FTL problem in general relativity.\n
      \n
      The thing is that the inertia being zero is implied one of the assumptions of the corner solution. That is, for tractability, Albucierre assumed that the ship would have no initial velocity that it would take into the warp bubble with it.\n
      \n
      It would be mathematically messier and would require a computational approach to relax this assumption and allow the ship to have positive initial velocity, but it’s exactly what some of the folks trying to extend the model and reduce the exotic matter requirement have explored.\n
      \n
      All to say that the elaboration of Albucierre’s approach seems likely to take it exactly in the direction of some of the distinctions the OP has noticed.\n
      \n
      Th most significant difference that remains is that ships at warp are able observe and to receive information from outside their bubble while this seems inconsistent with a bubble in Alcubierre’s model.
      """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
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          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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      I’m going to drop in again to say that Albucierre’s particular solution in his doctoral thesis was a mathematical closed form corner solution for tractability.\n
      \n
      We shouldn’t take the features of this limited corner case as characteristic of the drive approach. Instead, we need to understand that the point of his thesis was to demonstrate cleanly that this particular solution was viable to get around the FTL problem in general relativity.\n
      \n
      The thing is that the inertia being zero is implied one of the assumptions of the corner solution. That is, for tractability, Albucierre assumed that the ship would have no initial velocity that it would take into the warp bubble with it.\n
      \n
      It would be mathematically messier and would require a computational approach to relax this assumption and allow the ship to have positive initial velocity, but it’s exactly what some of the folks trying to extend the model and reduce the exotic matter requirement have explored.\n
      \n
      All to say that the elaboration of Albucierre’s approach seems likely to take it exactly in the direction of some of the distinctions the OP has noticed.\n
      \n
      Th most significant difference that remains is that ships at warp are able observe and to receive information from outside their bubble while this seems inconsistent with a bubble in Alcubierre’s model.
      """
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        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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      I’m going to drop in again to say that Albucierre’s particular solution in his doctoral thesis was a mathematical closed form corner solution for tractability.\n
      \n
      We shouldn’t take the features of this limited corner case as characteristic of the drive approach. Instead, we need to understand that the point of his thesis was to demonstrate cleanly that this particular solution was viable to get around the FTL problem in general relativity.\n
      \n
      The thing is that the inertia being zero is implied one of the assumptions of the corner solution. That is, for tractability, Albucierre assumed that the ship would have no initial velocity that it would take into the warp bubble with it.\n
      \n
      It would be mathematically messier and would require a computational approach to relax this assumption and allow the ship to have positive initial velocity, but it’s exactly what some of the folks trying to extend the model and reduce the exotic matter requirement have explored.\n
      \n
      All to say that the elaboration of Albucierre’s approach seems likely to take it exactly in the direction of some of the distinctions the OP has noticed.\n
      \n
      Th most significant difference that remains is that ships at warp are able observe and to receive information from outside their bubble while this seems inconsistent with a bubble in Alcubierre’s model.
      """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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      I’m going to drop in again to say that Albucierre’s particular solution in his doctoral thesis was a mathematical closed form corner solution for tractability.\n
      \n
      We shouldn’t take the features of this limited corner case as characteristic of the drive approach. Instead, we need to understand that the point of his thesis was to demonstrate cleanly that this particular solution was viable to get around the FTL problem in general relativity.\n
      \n
      The thing is that the inertia being zero is implied one of the assumptions of the corner solution. That is, for tractability, Albucierre assumed that the ship would have no initial velocity that it would take into the warp bubble with it.\n
      \n
      It would be mathematically messier and would require a computational approach to relax this assumption and allow the ship to have positive initial velocity, but it’s exactly what some of the folks trying to extend the model and reduce the exotic matter requirement have explored.\n
      \n
      All to say that the elaboration of Albucierre’s approach seems likely to take it exactly in the direction of some of the distinctions the OP has noticed.\n
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      Th most significant difference that remains is that ships at warp are able observe and to receive information from outside their bubble while this seems inconsistent with a bubble in Alcubierre’s model.
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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      I’m going to drop in again to say that Albucierre’s particular solution in his doctoral thesis was a mathematical closed form corner solution for tractability.\n
      \n
      We shouldn’t take the features of this limited corner case as characteristic of the drive approach. Instead, we need to understand that the point of his thesis was to demonstrate cleanly that this particular solution was viable to get around the FTL problem in general relativity.\n
      \n
      The thing is that the inertia being zero is implied one of the assumptions of the corner solution. That is, for tractability, Albucierre assumed that the ship would have no initial velocity that it would take into the warp bubble with it.\n
      \n
      It would be mathematically messier and would require a computational approach to relax this assumption and allow the ship to have positive initial velocity, but it’s exactly what some of the folks trying to extend the model and reduce the exotic matter requirement have explored.\n
      \n
      All to say that the elaboration of Albucierre’s approach seems likely to take it exactly in the direction of some of the distinctions the OP has noticed.\n
      \n
      Th most significant difference that remains is that ships at warp are able observe and to receive information from outside their bubble while this seems inconsistent with a bubble in Alcubierre’s model.
      """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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      I’m going to drop in again to say that Albucierre’s particular solution in his doctoral thesis was a mathematical closed form corner solution for tractability.\n
      \n
      We shouldn’t take the features of this limited corner case as characteristic of the drive approach. Instead, we need to understand that the point of his thesis was to demonstrate cleanly that this particular solution was viable to get around the FTL problem in general relativity.\n
      \n
      The thing is that the inertia being zero is implied one of the assumptions of the corner solution. That is, for tractability, Albucierre assumed that the ship would have no initial velocity that it would take into the warp bubble with it.\n
      \n
      It would be mathematically messier and would require a computational approach to relax this assumption and allow the ship to have positive initial velocity, but it’s exactly what some of the folks trying to extend the model and reduce the exotic matter requirement have explored.\n
      \n
      All to say that the elaboration of Albucierre’s approach seems likely to take it exactly in the direction of some of the distinctions the OP has noticed.\n
      \n
      Th most significant difference that remains is that ships at warp are able observe and to receive information from outside their bubble while this seems inconsistent with a bubble in Alcubierre’s model.
      """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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      (Mostly copying the comment I did on the other places for visibility)\n
      \n
      > it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”)\n
      \n
      At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The [Constellation](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Constellation_(NCC-1017)), sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the [Hathaway](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Hathaway) also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
      \n
      > It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000c).\n
      \n
      What’s surprising is that subspace signals aren’t that much faster than a given starship is. At full tilt, the Sovereign is almost as fast as the radio signal it’s transmitting, and later generations of starships might well match, or even surpass it.\n
      \n
      > So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed c in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
      \n
      At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
      \n
      > This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS Trek where the outside of the ship looks more like a Stargate-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
      \n
      In TNG, [we see both](https://youtu.be/Vt1FOgi9sVE?t=145), with the tunnel seeming to be a transitory state as the ship accelerates to warp speed. But treating visuals as literal seems like an exercise in futility. There’s a whole bunch of exotic physics we’re not privy to that go on, in much the same way that a Q do not use warp drives for their powers (despite the similar effect), and people don’t disappear in a puff of light when transporting.\n
      \n
      > So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual c values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
      \n
      At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
      \n
      It’d be like giving Calorie two different definitions. Does a 200 Calorie food mean that it has 200 Calories, or 200 KiloCalories, and someone’s just used shorthand?
      """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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      (Mostly copying the comment I did on the other places for visibility)\n
      \n
      > it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”)\n
      \n
      At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The [Constellation](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Constellation_(NCC-1017)), sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the [Hathaway](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Hathaway) also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
      \n
      > It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000c).\n
      \n
      What’s surprising is that subspace signals aren’t that much faster than a given starship is. At full tilt, the Sovereign is almost as fast as the radio signal it’s transmitting, and later generations of starships might well match, or even surpass it.\n
      \n
      > So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed c in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
      \n
      At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
      \n
      > This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS Trek where the outside of the ship looks more like a Stargate-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
      \n
      In TNG, [we see both](https://youtu.be/Vt1FOgi9sVE?t=145), with the tunnel seeming to be a transitory state as the ship accelerates to warp speed. But treating visuals as literal seems like an exercise in futility. There’s a whole bunch of exotic physics we’re not privy to that go on, in much the same way that a Q do not use warp drives for their powers (despite the similar effect), and people don’t disappear in a puff of light when transporting.\n
      \n
      > So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual c values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
      \n
      At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
      \n
      It’d be like giving Calorie two different definitions. Does a 200 Calorie food mean that it has 200 Calories, or 200 KiloCalories, and someone’s just used shorthand?
      """
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      +description: """
        [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
        \n
        Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
        \n
        Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
        \n
        ##### **Rules**\n
        \n
        **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
        \n
        All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
        \n
        **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
        \n
        This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
        \n
        **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
        \n
        Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
        \n
        **4. Assume good faith.**\n
        \n
        Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
        \n
        **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
        \n
        Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
        \n
        **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
        \n
        Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
        \n
        #### **Episode Guides**\n
        \n
        The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
        \n
        - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
        - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
        - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
        - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
        """
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    +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
    +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
      \n
      I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
      \n
      I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
      \n
      So let’s begin.\n
      \n
      **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
      \n
      To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
      \n
      The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
      \n
      > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
      \n
      > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
      \n
      As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
      \n
      Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
      \n
      As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
      \n
      This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
      \n
      **What about subspace?**\n
      \n
      Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
      \n
      We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
      \n
      It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
      \n
      But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
      \n
      **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
      \n
      In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
      \n
      Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
      \n
      (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
      \n
      Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
      \n
      So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
      \n
      This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
      \n
      **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
      \n
      The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
      \n
      My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
      \n
      (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
      \n
      So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
      \n
      **Conclusion**\n
      \n
      So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
      \n
      Thank you for your attention.
      """
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      +description: """
        [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
        \n
        Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
        \n
        Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
        \n
        ##### **Rules**\n
        \n
        **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
        \n
        All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
        \n
        **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
        \n
        This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
        \n
        **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
        \n
        Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
        \n
        **4. Assume good faith.**\n
        \n
        Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
        \n
        **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
        \n
        Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
        \n
        **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
        \n
        Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
        \n
        #### **Episode Guides**\n
        \n
        The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
        \n
        - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
        - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
        - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
        - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
        """
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    +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
      \n
      I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
      \n
      I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
      \n
      So let’s begin.\n
      \n
      **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
      \n
      To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
      \n
      The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
      \n
      > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
      \n
      > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
      \n
      As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
      \n
      Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
      \n
      As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
      \n
      This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
      \n
      **What about subspace?**\n
      \n
      Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
      \n
      We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
      \n
      It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
      \n
      But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
      \n
      **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
      \n
      In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
      \n
      Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
      \n
      (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
      \n
      Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
      \n
      So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
      \n
      This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
      \n
      **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
      \n
      The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
      \n
      My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
      \n
      (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
      \n
      So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
      \n
      **Conclusion**\n
      \n
      So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
      \n
      Thank you for your attention.
      """
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        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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      (Mostly copying the comment I did on the other places for visibility)\n
      \n
      > it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”)\n
      \n
      At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The [Constellation](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Constellation_(NCC-1017)), sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the [Hathaway](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Hathaway) also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
      \n
      > It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000c).\n
      \n
      What’s surprising is that subspace signals aren’t that much faster than a given starship is. At full tilt, the Sovereign is almost as fast as the radio signal it’s transmitting, and later generations of starships might well match, or even surpass it.\n
      \n
      > So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed c in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
      \n
      At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
      \n
      > This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS Trek where the outside of the ship looks more like a Stargate-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
      \n
      In TNG, [we see both](https://youtu.be/Vt1FOgi9sVE?t=145), with the tunnel seeming to be a transitory state as the ship accelerates to warp speed. But treating visuals as literal seems like an exercise in futility. There’s a whole bunch of exotic physics we’re not privy to that go on, in much the same way that a Q do not use warp drives for their powers (despite the similar effect), and people don’t disappear in a puff of light when transporting.\n
      \n
      > So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual c values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
      \n
      At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
      \n
      It’d be like giving Calorie two different definitions. Does a 200 Calorie food mean that it has 200 Calories, or 200 KiloCalories, and someone’s just used shorthand?
      """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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      (Mostly copying the comment I did on the other places for visibility)\n
      \n
      > it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”)\n
      \n
      At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The [Constellation](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Constellation_(NCC-1017)), sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the [Hathaway](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Hathaway) also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
      \n
      > It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000c).\n
      \n
      What’s surprising is that subspace signals aren’t that much faster than a given starship is. At full tilt, the Sovereign is almost as fast as the radio signal it’s transmitting, and later generations of starships might well match, or even surpass it.\n
      \n
      > So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed c in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
      \n
      At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
      \n
      > This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS Trek where the outside of the ship looks more like a Stargate-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
      \n
      In TNG, [we see both](https://youtu.be/Vt1FOgi9sVE?t=145), with the tunnel seeming to be a transitory state as the ship accelerates to warp speed. But treating visuals as literal seems like an exercise in futility. There’s a whole bunch of exotic physics we’re not privy to that go on, in much the same way that a Q do not use warp drives for their powers (despite the similar effect), and people don’t disappear in a puff of light when transporting.\n
      \n
      > So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual c values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
      \n
      At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
      \n
      It’d be like giving Calorie two different definitions. Does a 200 Calorie food mean that it has 200 Calories, or 200 KiloCalories, and someone’s just used shorthand?
      """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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      (Mostly copying the comment I did on the other places for visibility)\n
      \n
      > it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”)\n
      \n
      At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The [Constellation](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Constellation_(NCC-1017)), sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the [Hathaway](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Hathaway) also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
      \n
      > It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000c).\n
      \n
      What’s surprising is that subspace signals aren’t that much faster than a given starship is. At full tilt, the Sovereign is almost as fast as the radio signal it’s transmitting, and later generations of starships might well match, or even surpass it.\n
      \n
      > So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed c in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
      \n
      At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
      \n
      > This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS Trek where the outside of the ship looks more like a Stargate-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
      \n
      In TNG, [we see both](https://youtu.be/Vt1FOgi9sVE?t=145), with the tunnel seeming to be a transitory state as the ship accelerates to warp speed. But treating visuals as literal seems like an exercise in futility. There’s a whole bunch of exotic physics we’re not privy to that go on, in much the same way that a Q do not use warp drives for their powers (despite the similar effect), and people don’t disappear in a puff of light when transporting.\n
      \n
      > So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual c values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
      \n
      At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
      \n
      It’d be like giving Calorie two different definitions. Does a 200 Calorie food mean that it has 200 Calories, or 200 KiloCalories, and someone’s just used shorthand?
      """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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      (Mostly copying the comment I did on the other places for visibility)\n
      \n
      > it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”)\n
      \n
      At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The [Constellation](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Constellation_(NCC-1017)), sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the [Hathaway](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Hathaway) also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
      \n
      > It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000c).\n
      \n
      What’s surprising is that subspace signals aren’t that much faster than a given starship is. At full tilt, the Sovereign is almost as fast as the radio signal it’s transmitting, and later generations of starships might well match, or even surpass it.\n
      \n
      > So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed c in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
      \n
      At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
      \n
      > This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS Trek where the outside of the ship looks more like a Stargate-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
      \n
      In TNG, [we see both](https://youtu.be/Vt1FOgi9sVE?t=145), with the tunnel seeming to be a transitory state as the ship accelerates to warp speed. But treating visuals as literal seems like an exercise in futility. There’s a whole bunch of exotic physics we’re not privy to that go on, in much the same way that a Q do not use warp drives for their powers (despite the similar effect), and people don’t disappear in a puff of light when transporting.\n
      \n
      > So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual c values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
      \n
      At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
      \n
      It’d be like giving Calorie two different definitions. Does a 200 Calorie food mean that it has 200 Calories, or 200 KiloCalories, and someone’s just used shorthand?
      """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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      (Mostly copying the comment I did on the other places for visibility)\n
      \n
      > it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”)\n
      \n
      At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The [Constellation](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Constellation_(NCC-1017)), sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the [Hathaway](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Hathaway) also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
      \n
      > It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000c).\n
      \n
      What’s surprising is that subspace signals aren’t that much faster than a given starship is. At full tilt, the Sovereign is almost as fast as the radio signal it’s transmitting, and later generations of starships might well match, or even surpass it.\n
      \n
      > So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed c in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
      \n
      At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
      \n
      > This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS Trek where the outside of the ship looks more like a Stargate-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
      \n
      In TNG, [we see both](https://youtu.be/Vt1FOgi9sVE?t=145), with the tunnel seeming to be a transitory state as the ship accelerates to warp speed. But treating visuals as literal seems like an exercise in futility. There’s a whole bunch of exotic physics we’re not privy to that go on, in much the same way that a Q do not use warp drives for their powers (despite the similar effect), and people don’t disappear in a puff of light when transporting.\n
      \n
      > So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual c values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
      \n
      At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
      \n
      It’d be like giving Calorie two different definitions. Does a 200 Calorie food mean that it has 200 Calories, or 200 KiloCalories, and someone’s just used shorthand?
      """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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      (Mostly copying the comment I did on the other places for visibility)\n
      \n
      > it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”)\n
      \n
      At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The [Constellation](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Constellation_(NCC-1017)), sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the [Hathaway](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Hathaway) also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
      \n
      > It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000c).\n
      \n
      What’s surprising is that subspace signals aren’t that much faster than a given starship is. At full tilt, the Sovereign is almost as fast as the radio signal it’s transmitting, and later generations of starships might well match, or even surpass it.\n
      \n
      > So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed c in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
      \n
      At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
      \n
      > This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS Trek where the outside of the ship looks more like a Stargate-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
      \n
      In TNG, [we see both](https://youtu.be/Vt1FOgi9sVE?t=145), with the tunnel seeming to be a transitory state as the ship accelerates to warp speed. But treating visuals as literal seems like an exercise in futility. There’s a whole bunch of exotic physics we’re not privy to that go on, in much the same way that a Q do not use warp drives for their powers (despite the similar effect), and people don’t disappear in a puff of light when transporting.\n
      \n
      > So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual c values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
      \n
      At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
      \n
      It’d be like giving Calorie two different definitions. Does a 200 Calorie food mean that it has 200 Calories, or 200 KiloCalories, and someone’s just used shorthand?
      """
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        (also copying my answer from the other place)\n
        \n
        Good points, but to address a couple of them:\n
        \n
        > At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The Constellation, sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the Hathaway also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
        \n
        I’m not suggesting that if warp drive gives out that impulse cannot be used. It obviously can be from the examples you’ve quoted, but I’d say that without the warp assist (from internal driver coils or external nacelles), it’s less efficient and speed would be reduced. From SNW: “Memento Mori” itself:\n
        \n
        > **PIKE**: How fast can you push impulse?\n
        > \n
        > **ORTEGAS**: The starboard nacelle is half-damaged. I can get us about half speed.\n
        \n
        Given the Tech Manual’s idea of incorporating warp drivers into impulse engines, I thought this fit in nicely as well with the idea of using a warp field’s mass-lowering properties to assist impulse operations.\n
        \n
        > At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
        \n
        Coincidentally, Sternbach and Okuda have thought about those effects, because the Tech Manual makes passing reference to Starfleet safety standards for subspace field exposure in talking about the inertial dampening system:\n
        \n
        > The IDF operates by maintaining a low-level forcefield throughout the habitable volume of the spacecraft. This field averages 75 millicochranes with field differential limited to 5.26 nanocochranes/meter, per SFRA-standard 352.12 for crew exposure to subspace fields.\n
        \n
        Like many things, they kind of gloss over them, but those millicochrane levels are pretty low, so there must be some kind of protective measure to mitigate against too much direct exposure to subspace. Perhaps it’s in the material hulls and EVA suits are made of? Maybe any deleterious subspace radiation can be blocked easily.\n
        \n
        > At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
        \n
        Although, for practical purposes since ultimately the ship is moving through real space anyway despite being enclosed in a subspace bubble, it all evens out in the wash. I mean, when we’re saying Warp 3 is 39*c* (TNG scale), we still have to ask ourselves 39*c* relative to what? And the answer to that might be relative to subspace as a frame of reference, and the distance travelled is simply expressed in real space terms.
        """
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      +body: "There are any number of shuttles lacking warp drive capability that have impulse drives. It seems clear that they need not be interlinked systems. Also, impulse drives still function when a warp core has been jettisoned."
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        As I’ve noted, I’m not saying impulse doesn’t function in the absence of warp. Warp makes impulse more efficient.\n
        \n
        Also, by the mid-24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils build in which produce sublight warp fields to aid in impulse operations.
        """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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        (Mostly copying the comment I did on the other places for visibility)\n
        \n
        > it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”)\n
        \n
        At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The [Constellation](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Constellation_(NCC-1017)), sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the [Hathaway](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Hathaway) also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
        \n
        > It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000c).\n
        \n
        What’s surprising is that subspace signals aren’t that much faster than a given starship is. At full tilt, the Sovereign is almost as fast as the radio signal it’s transmitting, and later generations of starships might well match, or even surpass it.\n
        \n
        > So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed c in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
        \n
        > This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS Trek where the outside of the ship looks more like a Stargate-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        In TNG, [we see both](https://youtu.be/Vt1FOgi9sVE?t=145), with the tunnel seeming to be a transitory state as the ship accelerates to warp speed. But treating visuals as literal seems like an exercise in futility. There’s a whole bunch of exotic physics we’re not privy to that go on, in much the same way that a Q do not use warp drives for their powers (despite the similar effect), and people don’t disappear in a puff of light when transporting.\n
        \n
        > So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual c values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
        \n
        It’d be like giving Calorie two different definitions. Does a 200 Calorie food mean that it has 200 Calories, or 200 KiloCalories, and someone’s just used shorthand?
        """
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      (also copying my answer from the other place)\n
      \n
      Good points, but to address a couple of them:\n
      \n
      > At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The Constellation, sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the Hathaway also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
      \n
      I’m not suggesting that if warp drive gives out that impulse cannot be used. It obviously can be from the examples you’ve quoted, but I’d say that without the warp assist (from internal driver coils or external nacelles), it’s less efficient and speed would be reduced. From SNW: “Memento Mori” itself:\n
      \n
      > **PIKE**: How fast can you push impulse?\n
      > \n
      > **ORTEGAS**: The starboard nacelle is half-damaged. I can get us about half speed.\n
      \n
      Given the Tech Manual’s idea of incorporating warp drivers into impulse engines, I thought this fit in nicely as well with the idea of using a warp field’s mass-lowering properties to assist impulse operations.\n
      \n
      > At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
      \n
      Coincidentally, Sternbach and Okuda have thought about those effects, because the Tech Manual makes passing reference to Starfleet safety standards for subspace field exposure in talking about the inertial dampening system:\n
      \n
      > The IDF operates by maintaining a low-level forcefield throughout the habitable volume of the spacecraft. This field averages 75 millicochranes with field differential limited to 5.26 nanocochranes/meter, per SFRA-standard 352.12 for crew exposure to subspace fields.\n
      \n
      Like many things, they kind of gloss over them, but those millicochrane levels are pretty low, so there must be some kind of protective measure to mitigate against too much direct exposure to subspace. Perhaps it’s in the material hulls and EVA suits are made of? Maybe any deleterious subspace radiation can be blocked easily.\n
      \n
      > At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
      \n
      Although, for practical purposes since ultimately the ship is moving through real space anyway despite being enclosed in a subspace bubble, it all evens out in the wash. I mean, when we’re saying Warp 3 is 39*c* (TNG scale), we still have to ask ourselves 39*c* relative to what? And the answer to that might be relative to subspace as a frame of reference, and the distance travelled is simply expressed in real space terms.
      """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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        (Mostly copying the comment I did on the other places for visibility)\n
        \n
        > it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”)\n
        \n
        At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The [Constellation](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Constellation_(NCC-1017)), sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the [Hathaway](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Hathaway) also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
        \n
        > It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000c).\n
        \n
        What’s surprising is that subspace signals aren’t that much faster than a given starship is. At full tilt, the Sovereign is almost as fast as the radio signal it’s transmitting, and later generations of starships might well match, or even surpass it.\n
        \n
        > So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed c in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
        \n
        > This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS Trek where the outside of the ship looks more like a Stargate-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        In TNG, [we see both](https://youtu.be/Vt1FOgi9sVE?t=145), with the tunnel seeming to be a transitory state as the ship accelerates to warp speed. But treating visuals as literal seems like an exercise in futility. There’s a whole bunch of exotic physics we’re not privy to that go on, in much the same way that a Q do not use warp drives for their powers (despite the similar effect), and people don’t disappear in a puff of light when transporting.\n
        \n
        > So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual c values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
        \n
        It’d be like giving Calorie two different definitions. Does a 200 Calorie food mean that it has 200 Calories, or 200 KiloCalories, and someone’s just used shorthand?
        """
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      (also copying my answer from the other place)\n
      \n
      Good points, but to address a couple of them:\n
      \n
      > At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The Constellation, sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the Hathaway also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
      \n
      I’m not suggesting that if warp drive gives out that impulse cannot be used. It obviously can be from the examples you’ve quoted, but I’d say that without the warp assist (from internal driver coils or external nacelles), it’s less efficient and speed would be reduced. From SNW: “Memento Mori” itself:\n
      \n
      > **PIKE**: How fast can you push impulse?\n
      > \n
      > **ORTEGAS**: The starboard nacelle is half-damaged. I can get us about half speed.\n
      \n
      Given the Tech Manual’s idea of incorporating warp drivers into impulse engines, I thought this fit in nicely as well with the idea of using a warp field’s mass-lowering properties to assist impulse operations.\n
      \n
      > At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
      \n
      Coincidentally, Sternbach and Okuda have thought about those effects, because the Tech Manual makes passing reference to Starfleet safety standards for subspace field exposure in talking about the inertial dampening system:\n
      \n
      > The IDF operates by maintaining a low-level forcefield throughout the habitable volume of the spacecraft. This field averages 75 millicochranes with field differential limited to 5.26 nanocochranes/meter, per SFRA-standard 352.12 for crew exposure to subspace fields.\n
      \n
      Like many things, they kind of gloss over them, but those millicochrane levels are pretty low, so there must be some kind of protective measure to mitigate against too much direct exposure to subspace. Perhaps it’s in the material hulls and EVA suits are made of? Maybe any deleterious subspace radiation can be blocked easily.\n
      \n
      > At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
      \n
      Although, for practical purposes since ultimately the ship is moving through real space anyway despite being enclosed in a subspace bubble, it all evens out in the wash. I mean, when we’re saying Warp 3 is 39*c* (TNG scale), we still have to ask ourselves 39*c* relative to what? And the answer to that might be relative to subspace as a frame of reference, and the distance travelled is simply expressed in real space terms.
      """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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        (Mostly copying the comment I did on the other places for visibility)\n
        \n
        > it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”)\n
        \n
        At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The [Constellation](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Constellation_(NCC-1017)), sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the [Hathaway](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Hathaway) also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
        \n
        > It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000c).\n
        \n
        What’s surprising is that subspace signals aren’t that much faster than a given starship is. At full tilt, the Sovereign is almost as fast as the radio signal it’s transmitting, and later generations of starships might well match, or even surpass it.\n
        \n
        > So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed c in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
        \n
        > This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS Trek where the outside of the ship looks more like a Stargate-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        In TNG, [we see both](https://youtu.be/Vt1FOgi9sVE?t=145), with the tunnel seeming to be a transitory state as the ship accelerates to warp speed. But treating visuals as literal seems like an exercise in futility. There’s a whole bunch of exotic physics we’re not privy to that go on, in much the same way that a Q do not use warp drives for their powers (despite the similar effect), and people don’t disappear in a puff of light when transporting.\n
        \n
        > So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual c values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
        \n
        It’d be like giving Calorie two different definitions. Does a 200 Calorie food mean that it has 200 Calories, or 200 KiloCalories, and someone’s just used shorthand?
        """
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    +body: """
      (also copying my answer from the other place)\n
      \n
      Good points, but to address a couple of them:\n
      \n
      > At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The Constellation, sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the Hathaway also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
      \n
      I’m not suggesting that if warp drive gives out that impulse cannot be used. It obviously can be from the examples you’ve quoted, but I’d say that without the warp assist (from internal driver coils or external nacelles), it’s less efficient and speed would be reduced. From SNW: “Memento Mori” itself:\n
      \n
      > **PIKE**: How fast can you push impulse?\n
      > \n
      > **ORTEGAS**: The starboard nacelle is half-damaged. I can get us about half speed.\n
      \n
      Given the Tech Manual’s idea of incorporating warp drivers into impulse engines, I thought this fit in nicely as well with the idea of using a warp field’s mass-lowering properties to assist impulse operations.\n
      \n
      > At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
      \n
      Coincidentally, Sternbach and Okuda have thought about those effects, because the Tech Manual makes passing reference to Starfleet safety standards for subspace field exposure in talking about the inertial dampening system:\n
      \n
      > The IDF operates by maintaining a low-level forcefield throughout the habitable volume of the spacecraft. This field averages 75 millicochranes with field differential limited to 5.26 nanocochranes/meter, per SFRA-standard 352.12 for crew exposure to subspace fields.\n
      \n
      Like many things, they kind of gloss over them, but those millicochrane levels are pretty low, so there must be some kind of protective measure to mitigate against too much direct exposure to subspace. Perhaps it’s in the material hulls and EVA suits are made of? Maybe any deleterious subspace radiation can be blocked easily.\n
      \n
      > At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
      \n
      Although, for practical purposes since ultimately the ship is moving through real space anyway despite being enclosed in a subspace bubble, it all evens out in the wash. I mean, when we’re saying Warp 3 is 39*c* (TNG scale), we still have to ask ourselves 39*c* relative to what? And the answer to that might be relative to subspace as a frame of reference, and the distance travelled is simply expressed in real space terms.
      """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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        (Mostly copying the comment I did on the other places for visibility)\n
        \n
        > it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”)\n
        \n
        At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The [Constellation](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Constellation_(NCC-1017)), sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the [Hathaway](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Hathaway) also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
        \n
        > It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000c).\n
        \n
        What’s surprising is that subspace signals aren’t that much faster than a given starship is. At full tilt, the Sovereign is almost as fast as the radio signal it’s transmitting, and later generations of starships might well match, or even surpass it.\n
        \n
        > So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed c in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
        \n
        > This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS Trek where the outside of the ship looks more like a Stargate-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        In TNG, [we see both](https://youtu.be/Vt1FOgi9sVE?t=145), with the tunnel seeming to be a transitory state as the ship accelerates to warp speed. But treating visuals as literal seems like an exercise in futility. There’s a whole bunch of exotic physics we’re not privy to that go on, in much the same way that a Q do not use warp drives for their powers (despite the similar effect), and people don’t disappear in a puff of light when transporting.\n
        \n
        > So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual c values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
        \n
        It’d be like giving Calorie two different definitions. Does a 200 Calorie food mean that it has 200 Calories, or 200 KiloCalories, and someone’s just used shorthand?
        """
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      (also copying my answer from the other place)\n
      \n
      Good points, but to address a couple of them:\n
      \n
      > At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The Constellation, sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the Hathaway also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
      \n
      I’m not suggesting that if warp drive gives out that impulse cannot be used. It obviously can be from the examples you’ve quoted, but I’d say that without the warp assist (from internal driver coils or external nacelles), it’s less efficient and speed would be reduced. From SNW: “Memento Mori” itself:\n
      \n
      > **PIKE**: How fast can you push impulse?\n
      > \n
      > **ORTEGAS**: The starboard nacelle is half-damaged. I can get us about half speed.\n
      \n
      Given the Tech Manual’s idea of incorporating warp drivers into impulse engines, I thought this fit in nicely as well with the idea of using a warp field’s mass-lowering properties to assist impulse operations.\n
      \n
      > At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
      \n
      Coincidentally, Sternbach and Okuda have thought about those effects, because the Tech Manual makes passing reference to Starfleet safety standards for subspace field exposure in talking about the inertial dampening system:\n
      \n
      > The IDF operates by maintaining a low-level forcefield throughout the habitable volume of the spacecraft. This field averages 75 millicochranes with field differential limited to 5.26 nanocochranes/meter, per SFRA-standard 352.12 for crew exposure to subspace fields.\n
      \n
      Like many things, they kind of gloss over them, but those millicochrane levels are pretty low, so there must be some kind of protective measure to mitigate against too much direct exposure to subspace. Perhaps it’s in the material hulls and EVA suits are made of? Maybe any deleterious subspace radiation can be blocked easily.\n
      \n
      > At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
      \n
      Although, for practical purposes since ultimately the ship is moving through real space anyway despite being enclosed in a subspace bubble, it all evens out in the wash. I mean, when we’re saying Warp 3 is 39*c* (TNG scale), we still have to ask ourselves 39*c* relative to what? And the answer to that might be relative to subspace as a frame of reference, and the distance travelled is simply expressed in real space terms.
      """
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          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
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          ##### **Rules**\n
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          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
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          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
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          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
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          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
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          \n
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          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
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      +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
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        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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        (Mostly copying the comment I did on the other places for visibility)\n
        \n
        > it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”)\n
        \n
        At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The [Constellation](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Constellation_(NCC-1017)), sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the [Hathaway](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Hathaway) also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
        \n
        > It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000c).\n
        \n
        What’s surprising is that subspace signals aren’t that much faster than a given starship is. At full tilt, the Sovereign is almost as fast as the radio signal it’s transmitting, and later generations of starships might well match, or even surpass it.\n
        \n
        > So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed c in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
        \n
        > This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS Trek where the outside of the ship looks more like a Stargate-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        In TNG, [we see both](https://youtu.be/Vt1FOgi9sVE?t=145), with the tunnel seeming to be a transitory state as the ship accelerates to warp speed. But treating visuals as literal seems like an exercise in futility. There’s a whole bunch of exotic physics we’re not privy to that go on, in much the same way that a Q do not use warp drives for their powers (despite the similar effect), and people don’t disappear in a puff of light when transporting.\n
        \n
        > So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual c values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
        \n
        It’d be like giving Calorie two different definitions. Does a 200 Calorie food mean that it has 200 Calories, or 200 KiloCalories, and someone’s just used shorthand?
        """
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      (also copying my answer from the other place)\n
      \n
      Good points, but to address a couple of them:\n
      \n
      > At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The Constellation, sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the Hathaway also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
      \n
      I’m not suggesting that if warp drive gives out that impulse cannot be used. It obviously can be from the examples you’ve quoted, but I’d say that without the warp assist (from internal driver coils or external nacelles), it’s less efficient and speed would be reduced. From SNW: “Memento Mori” itself:\n
      \n
      > **PIKE**: How fast can you push impulse?\n
      > \n
      > **ORTEGAS**: The starboard nacelle is half-damaged. I can get us about half speed.\n
      \n
      Given the Tech Manual’s idea of incorporating warp drivers into impulse engines, I thought this fit in nicely as well with the idea of using a warp field’s mass-lowering properties to assist impulse operations.\n
      \n
      > At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
      \n
      Coincidentally, Sternbach and Okuda have thought about those effects, because the Tech Manual makes passing reference to Starfleet safety standards for subspace field exposure in talking about the inertial dampening system:\n
      \n
      > The IDF operates by maintaining a low-level forcefield throughout the habitable volume of the spacecraft. This field averages 75 millicochranes with field differential limited to 5.26 nanocochranes/meter, per SFRA-standard 352.12 for crew exposure to subspace fields.\n
      \n
      Like many things, they kind of gloss over them, but those millicochrane levels are pretty low, so there must be some kind of protective measure to mitigate against too much direct exposure to subspace. Perhaps it’s in the material hulls and EVA suits are made of? Maybe any deleterious subspace radiation can be blocked easily.\n
      \n
      > At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
      \n
      Although, for practical purposes since ultimately the ship is moving through real space anyway despite being enclosed in a subspace bubble, it all evens out in the wash. I mean, when we’re saying Warp 3 is 39*c* (TNG scale), we still have to ask ourselves 39*c* relative to what? And the answer to that might be relative to subspace as a frame of reference, and the distance travelled is simply expressed in real space terms.
      """
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          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
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          \n
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          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
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          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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        (Mostly copying the comment I did on the other places for visibility)\n
        \n
        > it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”)\n
        \n
        At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The [Constellation](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Constellation_(NCC-1017)), sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the [Hathaway](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Hathaway) also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
        \n
        > It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000c).\n
        \n
        What’s surprising is that subspace signals aren’t that much faster than a given starship is. At full tilt, the Sovereign is almost as fast as the radio signal it’s transmitting, and later generations of starships might well match, or even surpass it.\n
        \n
        > So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed c in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
        \n
        > This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS Trek where the outside of the ship looks more like a Stargate-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        In TNG, [we see both](https://youtu.be/Vt1FOgi9sVE?t=145), with the tunnel seeming to be a transitory state as the ship accelerates to warp speed. But treating visuals as literal seems like an exercise in futility. There’s a whole bunch of exotic physics we’re not privy to that go on, in much the same way that a Q do not use warp drives for their powers (despite the similar effect), and people don’t disappear in a puff of light when transporting.\n
        \n
        > So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual c values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
        \n
        It’d be like giving Calorie two different definitions. Does a 200 Calorie food mean that it has 200 Calories, or 200 KiloCalories, and someone’s just used shorthand?
        """
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      (also copying my answer from the other place)\n
      \n
      Good points, but to address a couple of them:\n
      \n
      > At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The Constellation, sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the Hathaway also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
      \n
      I’m not suggesting that if warp drive gives out that impulse cannot be used. It obviously can be from the examples you’ve quoted, but I’d say that without the warp assist (from internal driver coils or external nacelles), it’s less efficient and speed would be reduced. From SNW: “Memento Mori” itself:\n
      \n
      > **PIKE**: How fast can you push impulse?\n
      > \n
      > **ORTEGAS**: The starboard nacelle is half-damaged. I can get us about half speed.\n
      \n
      Given the Tech Manual’s idea of incorporating warp drivers into impulse engines, I thought this fit in nicely as well with the idea of using a warp field’s mass-lowering properties to assist impulse operations.\n
      \n
      > At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
      \n
      Coincidentally, Sternbach and Okuda have thought about those effects, because the Tech Manual makes passing reference to Starfleet safety standards for subspace field exposure in talking about the inertial dampening system:\n
      \n
      > The IDF operates by maintaining a low-level forcefield throughout the habitable volume of the spacecraft. This field averages 75 millicochranes with field differential limited to 5.26 nanocochranes/meter, per SFRA-standard 352.12 for crew exposure to subspace fields.\n
      \n
      Like many things, they kind of gloss over them, but those millicochrane levels are pretty low, so there must be some kind of protective measure to mitigate against too much direct exposure to subspace. Perhaps it’s in the material hulls and EVA suits are made of? Maybe any deleterious subspace radiation can be blocked easily.\n
      \n
      > At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
      \n
      Although, for practical purposes since ultimately the ship is moving through real space anyway despite being enclosed in a subspace bubble, it all evens out in the wash. I mean, when we’re saying Warp 3 is 39*c* (TNG scale), we still have to ask ourselves 39*c* relative to what? And the answer to that might be relative to subspace as a frame of reference, and the distance travelled is simply expressed in real space terms.
      """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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        (Mostly copying the comment I did on the other places for visibility)\n
        \n
        > it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”)\n
        \n
        At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The [Constellation](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Constellation_(NCC-1017)), sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the [Hathaway](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Hathaway) also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
        \n
        > It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000c).\n
        \n
        What’s surprising is that subspace signals aren’t that much faster than a given starship is. At full tilt, the Sovereign is almost as fast as the radio signal it’s transmitting, and later generations of starships might well match, or even surpass it.\n
        \n
        > So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed c in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
        \n
        > This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS Trek where the outside of the ship looks more like a Stargate-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        In TNG, [we see both](https://youtu.be/Vt1FOgi9sVE?t=145), with the tunnel seeming to be a transitory state as the ship accelerates to warp speed. But treating visuals as literal seems like an exercise in futility. There’s a whole bunch of exotic physics we’re not privy to that go on, in much the same way that a Q do not use warp drives for their powers (despite the similar effect), and people don’t disappear in a puff of light when transporting.\n
        \n
        > So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual c values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
        \n
        It’d be like giving Calorie two different definitions. Does a 200 Calorie food mean that it has 200 Calories, or 200 KiloCalories, and someone’s just used shorthand?
        """
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      (also copying my answer from the other place)\n
      \n
      Good points, but to address a couple of them:\n
      \n
      > At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The Constellation, sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the Hathaway also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
      \n
      I’m not suggesting that if warp drive gives out that impulse cannot be used. It obviously can be from the examples you’ve quoted, but I’d say that without the warp assist (from internal driver coils or external nacelles), it’s less efficient and speed would be reduced. From SNW: “Memento Mori” itself:\n
      \n
      > **PIKE**: How fast can you push impulse?\n
      > \n
      > **ORTEGAS**: The starboard nacelle is half-damaged. I can get us about half speed.\n
      \n
      Given the Tech Manual’s idea of incorporating warp drivers into impulse engines, I thought this fit in nicely as well with the idea of using a warp field’s mass-lowering properties to assist impulse operations.\n
      \n
      > At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
      \n
      Coincidentally, Sternbach and Okuda have thought about those effects, because the Tech Manual makes passing reference to Starfleet safety standards for subspace field exposure in talking about the inertial dampening system:\n
      \n
      > The IDF operates by maintaining a low-level forcefield throughout the habitable volume of the spacecraft. This field averages 75 millicochranes with field differential limited to 5.26 nanocochranes/meter, per SFRA-standard 352.12 for crew exposure to subspace fields.\n
      \n
      Like many things, they kind of gloss over them, but those millicochrane levels are pretty low, so there must be some kind of protective measure to mitigate against too much direct exposure to subspace. Perhaps it’s in the material hulls and EVA suits are made of? Maybe any deleterious subspace radiation can be blocked easily.\n
      \n
      > At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
      \n
      Although, for practical purposes since ultimately the ship is moving through real space anyway despite being enclosed in a subspace bubble, it all evens out in the wash. I mean, when we’re saying Warp 3 is 39*c* (TNG scale), we still have to ask ourselves 39*c* relative to what? And the answer to that might be relative to subspace as a frame of reference, and the distance travelled is simply expressed in real space terms.
      """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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        (Mostly copying the comment I did on the other places for visibility)\n
        \n
        > it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”)\n
        \n
        At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The [Constellation](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Constellation_(NCC-1017)), sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the [Hathaway](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Hathaway) also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
        \n
        > It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000c).\n
        \n
        What’s surprising is that subspace signals aren’t that much faster than a given starship is. At full tilt, the Sovereign is almost as fast as the radio signal it’s transmitting, and later generations of starships might well match, or even surpass it.\n
        \n
        > So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed c in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
        \n
        > This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS Trek where the outside of the ship looks more like a Stargate-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        In TNG, [we see both](https://youtu.be/Vt1FOgi9sVE?t=145), with the tunnel seeming to be a transitory state as the ship accelerates to warp speed. But treating visuals as literal seems like an exercise in futility. There’s a whole bunch of exotic physics we’re not privy to that go on, in much the same way that a Q do not use warp drives for their powers (despite the similar effect), and people don’t disappear in a puff of light when transporting.\n
        \n
        > So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual c values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
        \n
        It’d be like giving Calorie two different definitions. Does a 200 Calorie food mean that it has 200 Calories, or 200 KiloCalories, and someone’s just used shorthand?
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      (also copying my answer from the other place)\n
      \n
      Good points, but to address a couple of them:\n
      \n
      > At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The Constellation, sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the Hathaway also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
      \n
      I’m not suggesting that if warp drive gives out that impulse cannot be used. It obviously can be from the examples you’ve quoted, but I’d say that without the warp assist (from internal driver coils or external nacelles), it’s less efficient and speed would be reduced. From SNW: “Memento Mori” itself:\n
      \n
      > **PIKE**: How fast can you push impulse?\n
      > \n
      > **ORTEGAS**: The starboard nacelle is half-damaged. I can get us about half speed.\n
      \n
      Given the Tech Manual’s idea of incorporating warp drivers into impulse engines, I thought this fit in nicely as well with the idea of using a warp field’s mass-lowering properties to assist impulse operations.\n
      \n
      > At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
      \n
      Coincidentally, Sternbach and Okuda have thought about those effects, because the Tech Manual makes passing reference to Starfleet safety standards for subspace field exposure in talking about the inertial dampening system:\n
      \n
      > The IDF operates by maintaining a low-level forcefield throughout the habitable volume of the spacecraft. This field averages 75 millicochranes with field differential limited to 5.26 nanocochranes/meter, per SFRA-standard 352.12 for crew exposure to subspace fields.\n
      \n
      Like many things, they kind of gloss over them, but those millicochrane levels are pretty low, so there must be some kind of protective measure to mitigate against too much direct exposure to subspace. Perhaps it’s in the material hulls and EVA suits are made of? Maybe any deleterious subspace radiation can be blocked easily.\n
      \n
      > At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
      \n
      Although, for practical purposes since ultimately the ship is moving through real space anyway despite being enclosed in a subspace bubble, it all evens out in the wash. I mean, when we’re saying Warp 3 is 39*c* (TNG scale), we still have to ask ourselves 39*c* relative to what? And the answer to that might be relative to subspace as a frame of reference, and the distance travelled is simply expressed in real space terms.
      """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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          (Mostly copying the comment I did on the other places for visibility)\n
          \n
          > it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”)\n
          \n
          At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The [Constellation](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Constellation_(NCC-1017)), sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the [Hathaway](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Hathaway) also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
          \n
          > It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000c).\n
          \n
          What’s surprising is that subspace signals aren’t that much faster than a given starship is. At full tilt, the Sovereign is almost as fast as the radio signal it’s transmitting, and later generations of starships might well match, or even surpass it.\n
          \n
          > So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed c in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
          \n
          At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
          \n
          > This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS Trek where the outside of the ship looks more like a Stargate-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
          \n
          In TNG, [we see both](https://youtu.be/Vt1FOgi9sVE?t=145), with the tunnel seeming to be a transitory state as the ship accelerates to warp speed. But treating visuals as literal seems like an exercise in futility. There’s a whole bunch of exotic physics we’re not privy to that go on, in much the same way that a Q do not use warp drives for their powers (despite the similar effect), and people don’t disappear in a puff of light when transporting.\n
          \n
          > So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual c values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
          \n
          At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
          \n
          It’d be like giving Calorie two different definitions. Does a 200 Calorie food mean that it has 200 Calories, or 200 KiloCalories, and someone’s just used shorthand?
          """
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        (also copying my answer from the other place)\n
        \n
        Good points, but to address a couple of them:\n
        \n
        > At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The Constellation, sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the Hathaway also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
        \n
        I’m not suggesting that if warp drive gives out that impulse cannot be used. It obviously can be from the examples you’ve quoted, but I’d say that without the warp assist (from internal driver coils or external nacelles), it’s less efficient and speed would be reduced. From SNW: “Memento Mori” itself:\n
        \n
        > **PIKE**: How fast can you push impulse?\n
        > \n
        > **ORTEGAS**: The starboard nacelle is half-damaged. I can get us about half speed.\n
        \n
        Given the Tech Manual’s idea of incorporating warp drivers into impulse engines, I thought this fit in nicely as well with the idea of using a warp field’s mass-lowering properties to assist impulse operations.\n
        \n
        > At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
        \n
        Coincidentally, Sternbach and Okuda have thought about those effects, because the Tech Manual makes passing reference to Starfleet safety standards for subspace field exposure in talking about the inertial dampening system:\n
        \n
        > The IDF operates by maintaining a low-level forcefield throughout the habitable volume of the spacecraft. This field averages 75 millicochranes with field differential limited to 5.26 nanocochranes/meter, per SFRA-standard 352.12 for crew exposure to subspace fields.\n
        \n
        Like many things, they kind of gloss over them, but those millicochrane levels are pretty low, so there must be some kind of protective measure to mitigate against too much direct exposure to subspace. Perhaps it’s in the material hulls and EVA suits are made of? Maybe any deleterious subspace radiation can be blocked easily.\n
        \n
        > At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
        \n
        Although, for practical purposes since ultimately the ship is moving through real space anyway despite being enclosed in a subspace bubble, it all evens out in the wash. I mean, when we’re saying Warp 3 is 39*c* (TNG scale), we still have to ask ourselves 39*c* relative to what? And the answer to that might be relative to subspace as a frame of reference, and the distance travelled is simply expressed in real space terms.
        """
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        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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          (Mostly copying the comment I did on the other places for visibility)\n
          \n
          > it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”)\n
          \n
          At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The [Constellation](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Constellation_(NCC-1017)), sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the [Hathaway](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Hathaway) also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
          \n
          > It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000c).\n
          \n
          What’s surprising is that subspace signals aren’t that much faster than a given starship is. At full tilt, the Sovereign is almost as fast as the radio signal it’s transmitting, and later generations of starships might well match, or even surpass it.\n
          \n
          > So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed c in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
          \n
          At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
          \n
          > This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS Trek where the outside of the ship looks more like a Stargate-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
          \n
          In TNG, [we see both](https://youtu.be/Vt1FOgi9sVE?t=145), with the tunnel seeming to be a transitory state as the ship accelerates to warp speed. But treating visuals as literal seems like an exercise in futility. There’s a whole bunch of exotic physics we’re not privy to that go on, in much the same way that a Q do not use warp drives for their powers (despite the similar effect), and people don’t disappear in a puff of light when transporting.\n
          \n
          > So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual c values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
          \n
          At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
          \n
          It’d be like giving Calorie two different definitions. Does a 200 Calorie food mean that it has 200 Calories, or 200 KiloCalories, and someone’s just used shorthand?
          """
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        (also copying my answer from the other place)\n
        \n
        Good points, but to address a couple of them:\n
        \n
        > At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The Constellation, sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the Hathaway also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
        \n
        I’m not suggesting that if warp drive gives out that impulse cannot be used. It obviously can be from the examples you’ve quoted, but I’d say that without the warp assist (from internal driver coils or external nacelles), it’s less efficient and speed would be reduced. From SNW: “Memento Mori” itself:\n
        \n
        > **PIKE**: How fast can you push impulse?\n
        > \n
        > **ORTEGAS**: The starboard nacelle is half-damaged. I can get us about half speed.\n
        \n
        Given the Tech Manual’s idea of incorporating warp drivers into impulse engines, I thought this fit in nicely as well with the idea of using a warp field’s mass-lowering properties to assist impulse operations.\n
        \n
        > At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
        \n
        Coincidentally, Sternbach and Okuda have thought about those effects, because the Tech Manual makes passing reference to Starfleet safety standards for subspace field exposure in talking about the inertial dampening system:\n
        \n
        > The IDF operates by maintaining a low-level forcefield throughout the habitable volume of the spacecraft. This field averages 75 millicochranes with field differential limited to 5.26 nanocochranes/meter, per SFRA-standard 352.12 for crew exposure to subspace fields.\n
        \n
        Like many things, they kind of gloss over them, but those millicochrane levels are pretty low, so there must be some kind of protective measure to mitigate against too much direct exposure to subspace. Perhaps it’s in the material hulls and EVA suits are made of? Maybe any deleterious subspace radiation can be blocked easily.\n
        \n
        > At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
        \n
        Although, for practical purposes since ultimately the ship is moving through real space anyway despite being enclosed in a subspace bubble, it all evens out in the wash. I mean, when we’re saying Warp 3 is 39*c* (TNG scale), we still have to ask ourselves 39*c* relative to what? And the answer to that might be relative to subspace as a frame of reference, and the distance travelled is simply expressed in real space terms.
        """
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      date: 2023-06-22 23:57:30.0 +02:00
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  +showAvatar: false
}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 20.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
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    date: 2024-01-24 04:17:37.0 +01:00
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#5692
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1706066257 {#2959
    date: 2024-01-24 04:17:37.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 20.0 MiB 0.10 ms
Input props
[
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    date: 2024-01-24 04:17:37.0 +01:00
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  "editedAt" => null
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[]
Component
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    date: 2024-01-24 04:17:37.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
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Input props
[
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  "width" => 40
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  "asLink" => true
]
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[]
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App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#5800
  +width: 40
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vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 20.0 MiB 0.43 ms
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[
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      +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#1446 …}
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        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
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      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
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        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3162 …}
      +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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          (Mostly copying the comment I did on the other places for visibility)\n
          \n
          > it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”)\n
          \n
          At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The [Constellation](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Constellation_(NCC-1017)), sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the [Hathaway](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Hathaway) also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
          \n
          > It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000c).\n
          \n
          What’s surprising is that subspace signals aren’t that much faster than a given starship is. At full tilt, the Sovereign is almost as fast as the radio signal it’s transmitting, and later generations of starships might well match, or even surpass it.\n
          \n
          > So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed c in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
          \n
          At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
          \n
          > This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS Trek where the outside of the ship looks more like a Stargate-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
          \n
          In TNG, [we see both](https://youtu.be/Vt1FOgi9sVE?t=145), with the tunnel seeming to be a transitory state as the ship accelerates to warp speed. But treating visuals as literal seems like an exercise in futility. There’s a whole bunch of exotic physics we’re not privy to that go on, in much the same way that a Q do not use warp drives for their powers (despite the similar effect), and people don’t disappear in a puff of light when transporting.\n
          \n
          > So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual c values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
          \n
          At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
          \n
          It’d be like giving Calorie two different definitions. Does a 200 Calorie food mean that it has 200 Calories, or 200 KiloCalories, and someone’s just used shorthand?
          """
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        (also copying my answer from the other place)\n
        \n
        Good points, but to address a couple of them:\n
        \n
        > At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The Constellation, sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the Hathaway also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
        \n
        I’m not suggesting that if warp drive gives out that impulse cannot be used. It obviously can be from the examples you’ve quoted, but I’d say that without the warp assist (from internal driver coils or external nacelles), it’s less efficient and speed would be reduced. From SNW: “Memento Mori” itself:\n
        \n
        > **PIKE**: How fast can you push impulse?\n
        > \n
        > **ORTEGAS**: The starboard nacelle is half-damaged. I can get us about half speed.\n
        \n
        Given the Tech Manual’s idea of incorporating warp drivers into impulse engines, I thought this fit in nicely as well with the idea of using a warp field’s mass-lowering properties to assist impulse operations.\n
        \n
        > At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
        \n
        Coincidentally, Sternbach and Okuda have thought about those effects, because the Tech Manual makes passing reference to Starfleet safety standards for subspace field exposure in talking about the inertial dampening system:\n
        \n
        > The IDF operates by maintaining a low-level forcefield throughout the habitable volume of the spacecraft. This field averages 75 millicochranes with field differential limited to 5.26 nanocochranes/meter, per SFRA-standard 352.12 for crew exposure to subspace fields.\n
        \n
        Like many things, they kind of gloss over them, but those millicochrane levels are pretty low, so there must be some kind of protective measure to mitigate against too much direct exposure to subspace. Perhaps it’s in the material hulls and EVA suits are made of? Maybe any deleterious subspace radiation can be blocked easily.\n
        \n
        > At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
        \n
        Although, for practical purposes since ultimately the ship is moving through real space anyway despite being enclosed in a subspace bubble, it all evens out in the wash. I mean, when we’re saying Warp 3 is 39*c* (TNG scale), we still have to ask ourselves 39*c* relative to what? And the answer to that might be relative to subspace as a frame of reference, and the distance travelled is simply expressed in real space terms.
        """
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        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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          (Mostly copying the comment I did on the other places for visibility)\n
          \n
          > it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”)\n
          \n
          At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The [Constellation](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Constellation_(NCC-1017)), sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the [Hathaway](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Hathaway) also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
          \n
          > It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000c).\n
          \n
          What’s surprising is that subspace signals aren’t that much faster than a given starship is. At full tilt, the Sovereign is almost as fast as the radio signal it’s transmitting, and later generations of starships might well match, or even surpass it.\n
          \n
          > So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed c in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
          \n
          At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
          \n
          > This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS Trek where the outside of the ship looks more like a Stargate-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
          \n
          In TNG, [we see both](https://youtu.be/Vt1FOgi9sVE?t=145), with the tunnel seeming to be a transitory state as the ship accelerates to warp speed. But treating visuals as literal seems like an exercise in futility. There’s a whole bunch of exotic physics we’re not privy to that go on, in much the same way that a Q do not use warp drives for their powers (despite the similar effect), and people don’t disappear in a puff of light when transporting.\n
          \n
          > So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual c values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
          \n
          At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
          \n
          It’d be like giving Calorie two different definitions. Does a 200 Calorie food mean that it has 200 Calories, or 200 KiloCalories, and someone’s just used shorthand?
          """
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        (also copying my answer from the other place)\n
        \n
        Good points, but to address a couple of them:\n
        \n
        > At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The Constellation, sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the Hathaway also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
        \n
        I’m not suggesting that if warp drive gives out that impulse cannot be used. It obviously can be from the examples you’ve quoted, but I’d say that without the warp assist (from internal driver coils or external nacelles), it’s less efficient and speed would be reduced. From SNW: “Memento Mori” itself:\n
        \n
        > **PIKE**: How fast can you push impulse?\n
        > \n
        > **ORTEGAS**: The starboard nacelle is half-damaged. I can get us about half speed.\n
        \n
        Given the Tech Manual’s idea of incorporating warp drivers into impulse engines, I thought this fit in nicely as well with the idea of using a warp field’s mass-lowering properties to assist impulse operations.\n
        \n
        > At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
        \n
        Coincidentally, Sternbach and Okuda have thought about those effects, because the Tech Manual makes passing reference to Starfleet safety standards for subspace field exposure in talking about the inertial dampening system:\n
        \n
        > The IDF operates by maintaining a low-level forcefield throughout the habitable volume of the spacecraft. This field averages 75 millicochranes with field differential limited to 5.26 nanocochranes/meter, per SFRA-standard 352.12 for crew exposure to subspace fields.\n
        \n
        Like many things, they kind of gloss over them, but those millicochrane levels are pretty low, so there must be some kind of protective measure to mitigate against too much direct exposure to subspace. Perhaps it’s in the material hulls and EVA suits are made of? Maybe any deleterious subspace radiation can be blocked easily.\n
        \n
        > At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
        \n
        Although, for practical purposes since ultimately the ship is moving through real space anyway despite being enclosed in a subspace bubble, it all evens out in the wash. I mean, when we’re saying Warp 3 is 39*c* (TNG scale), we still have to ask ourselves 39*c* relative to what? And the answer to that might be relative to subspace as a frame of reference, and the distance travelled is simply expressed in real space terms.
        """
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    +body: "There are any number of shuttles lacking warp drive capability that have impulse drives. It seems clear that they need not be interlinked systems. Also, impulse drives still function when a warp core has been jettisoned."
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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          (Mostly copying the comment I did on the other places for visibility)\n
          \n
          > it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”)\n
          \n
          At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The [Constellation](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Constellation_(NCC-1017)), sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the [Hathaway](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Hathaway) also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
          \n
          > It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000c).\n
          \n
          What’s surprising is that subspace signals aren’t that much faster than a given starship is. At full tilt, the Sovereign is almost as fast as the radio signal it’s transmitting, and later generations of starships might well match, or even surpass it.\n
          \n
          > So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed c in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
          \n
          At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
          \n
          > This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS Trek where the outside of the ship looks more like a Stargate-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
          \n
          In TNG, [we see both](https://youtu.be/Vt1FOgi9sVE?t=145), with the tunnel seeming to be a transitory state as the ship accelerates to warp speed. But treating visuals as literal seems like an exercise in futility. There’s a whole bunch of exotic physics we’re not privy to that go on, in much the same way that a Q do not use warp drives for their powers (despite the similar effect), and people don’t disappear in a puff of light when transporting.\n
          \n
          > So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual c values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
          \n
          At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
          \n
          It’d be like giving Calorie two different definitions. Does a 200 Calorie food mean that it has 200 Calories, or 200 KiloCalories, and someone’s just used shorthand?
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        (also copying my answer from the other place)\n
        \n
        Good points, but to address a couple of them:\n
        \n
        > At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The Constellation, sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the Hathaway also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
        \n
        I’m not suggesting that if warp drive gives out that impulse cannot be used. It obviously can be from the examples you’ve quoted, but I’d say that without the warp assist (from internal driver coils or external nacelles), it’s less efficient and speed would be reduced. From SNW: “Memento Mori” itself:\n
        \n
        > **PIKE**: How fast can you push impulse?\n
        > \n
        > **ORTEGAS**: The starboard nacelle is half-damaged. I can get us about half speed.\n
        \n
        Given the Tech Manual’s idea of incorporating warp drivers into impulse engines, I thought this fit in nicely as well with the idea of using a warp field’s mass-lowering properties to assist impulse operations.\n
        \n
        > At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
        \n
        Coincidentally, Sternbach and Okuda have thought about those effects, because the Tech Manual makes passing reference to Starfleet safety standards for subspace field exposure in talking about the inertial dampening system:\n
        \n
        > The IDF operates by maintaining a low-level forcefield throughout the habitable volume of the spacecraft. This field averages 75 millicochranes with field differential limited to 5.26 nanocochranes/meter, per SFRA-standard 352.12 for crew exposure to subspace fields.\n
        \n
        Like many things, they kind of gloss over them, but those millicochrane levels are pretty low, so there must be some kind of protective measure to mitigate against too much direct exposure to subspace. Perhaps it’s in the material hulls and EVA suits are made of? Maybe any deleterious subspace radiation can be blocked easily.\n
        \n
        > At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
        \n
        Although, for practical purposes since ultimately the ship is moving through real space anyway despite being enclosed in a subspace bubble, it all evens out in the wash. I mean, when we’re saying Warp 3 is 39*c* (TNG scale), we still have to ask ourselves 39*c* relative to what? And the answer to that might be relative to subspace as a frame of reference, and the distance travelled is simply expressed in real space terms.
        """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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          (Mostly copying the comment I did on the other places for visibility)\n
          \n
          > it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”)\n
          \n
          At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The [Constellation](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Constellation_(NCC-1017)), sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the [Hathaway](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Hathaway) also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
          \n
          > It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000c).\n
          \n
          What’s surprising is that subspace signals aren’t that much faster than a given starship is. At full tilt, the Sovereign is almost as fast as the radio signal it’s transmitting, and later generations of starships might well match, or even surpass it.\n
          \n
          > So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed c in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
          \n
          At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
          \n
          > This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS Trek where the outside of the ship looks more like a Stargate-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
          \n
          In TNG, [we see both](https://youtu.be/Vt1FOgi9sVE?t=145), with the tunnel seeming to be a transitory state as the ship accelerates to warp speed. But treating visuals as literal seems like an exercise in futility. There’s a whole bunch of exotic physics we’re not privy to that go on, in much the same way that a Q do not use warp drives for their powers (despite the similar effect), and people don’t disappear in a puff of light when transporting.\n
          \n
          > So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual c values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
          \n
          At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
          \n
          It’d be like giving Calorie two different definitions. Does a 200 Calorie food mean that it has 200 Calories, or 200 KiloCalories, and someone’s just used shorthand?
          """
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        (also copying my answer from the other place)\n
        \n
        Good points, but to address a couple of them:\n
        \n
        > At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The Constellation, sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the Hathaway also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
        \n
        I’m not suggesting that if warp drive gives out that impulse cannot be used. It obviously can be from the examples you’ve quoted, but I’d say that without the warp assist (from internal driver coils or external nacelles), it’s less efficient and speed would be reduced. From SNW: “Memento Mori” itself:\n
        \n
        > **PIKE**: How fast can you push impulse?\n
        > \n
        > **ORTEGAS**: The starboard nacelle is half-damaged. I can get us about half speed.\n
        \n
        Given the Tech Manual’s idea of incorporating warp drivers into impulse engines, I thought this fit in nicely as well with the idea of using a warp field’s mass-lowering properties to assist impulse operations.\n
        \n
        > At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
        \n
        Coincidentally, Sternbach and Okuda have thought about those effects, because the Tech Manual makes passing reference to Starfleet safety standards for subspace field exposure in talking about the inertial dampening system:\n
        \n
        > The IDF operates by maintaining a low-level forcefield throughout the habitable volume of the spacecraft. This field averages 75 millicochranes with field differential limited to 5.26 nanocochranes/meter, per SFRA-standard 352.12 for crew exposure to subspace fields.\n
        \n
        Like many things, they kind of gloss over them, but those millicochrane levels are pretty low, so there must be some kind of protective measure to mitigate against too much direct exposure to subspace. Perhaps it’s in the material hulls and EVA suits are made of? Maybe any deleterious subspace radiation can be blocked easily.\n
        \n
        > At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
        \n
        Although, for practical purposes since ultimately the ship is moving through real space anyway despite being enclosed in a subspace bubble, it all evens out in the wash. I mean, when we’re saying Warp 3 is 39*c* (TNG scale), we still have to ask ourselves 39*c* relative to what? And the answer to that might be relative to subspace as a frame of reference, and the distance travelled is simply expressed in real space terms.
        """
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    +body: "There are any number of shuttles lacking warp drive capability that have impulse drives. It seems clear that they need not be interlinked systems. Also, impulse drives still function when a warp core has been jettisoned."
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        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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          (Mostly copying the comment I did on the other places for visibility)\n
          \n
          > it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”)\n
          \n
          At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The [Constellation](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Constellation_(NCC-1017)), sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the [Hathaway](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Hathaway) also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
          \n
          > It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000c).\n
          \n
          What’s surprising is that subspace signals aren’t that much faster than a given starship is. At full tilt, the Sovereign is almost as fast as the radio signal it’s transmitting, and later generations of starships might well match, or even surpass it.\n
          \n
          > So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed c in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
          \n
          At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
          \n
          > This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS Trek where the outside of the ship looks more like a Stargate-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
          \n
          In TNG, [we see both](https://youtu.be/Vt1FOgi9sVE?t=145), with the tunnel seeming to be a transitory state as the ship accelerates to warp speed. But treating visuals as literal seems like an exercise in futility. There’s a whole bunch of exotic physics we’re not privy to that go on, in much the same way that a Q do not use warp drives for their powers (despite the similar effect), and people don’t disappear in a puff of light when transporting.\n
          \n
          > So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual c values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
          \n
          At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
          \n
          It’d be like giving Calorie two different definitions. Does a 200 Calorie food mean that it has 200 Calories, or 200 KiloCalories, and someone’s just used shorthand?
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        (also copying my answer from the other place)\n
        \n
        Good points, but to address a couple of them:\n
        \n
        > At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The Constellation, sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the Hathaway also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
        \n
        I’m not suggesting that if warp drive gives out that impulse cannot be used. It obviously can be from the examples you’ve quoted, but I’d say that without the warp assist (from internal driver coils or external nacelles), it’s less efficient and speed would be reduced. From SNW: “Memento Mori” itself:\n
        \n
        > **PIKE**: How fast can you push impulse?\n
        > \n
        > **ORTEGAS**: The starboard nacelle is half-damaged. I can get us about half speed.\n
        \n
        Given the Tech Manual’s idea of incorporating warp drivers into impulse engines, I thought this fit in nicely as well with the idea of using a warp field’s mass-lowering properties to assist impulse operations.\n
        \n
        > At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
        \n
        Coincidentally, Sternbach and Okuda have thought about those effects, because the Tech Manual makes passing reference to Starfleet safety standards for subspace field exposure in talking about the inertial dampening system:\n
        \n
        > The IDF operates by maintaining a low-level forcefield throughout the habitable volume of the spacecraft. This field averages 75 millicochranes with field differential limited to 5.26 nanocochranes/meter, per SFRA-standard 352.12 for crew exposure to subspace fields.\n
        \n
        Like many things, they kind of gloss over them, but those millicochrane levels are pretty low, so there must be some kind of protective measure to mitigate against too much direct exposure to subspace. Perhaps it’s in the material hulls and EVA suits are made of? Maybe any deleterious subspace radiation can be blocked easily.\n
        \n
        > At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
        \n
        Although, for practical purposes since ultimately the ship is moving through real space anyway despite being enclosed in a subspace bubble, it all evens out in the wash. I mean, when we’re saying Warp 3 is 39*c* (TNG scale), we still have to ask ourselves 39*c* relative to what? And the answer to that might be relative to subspace as a frame of reference, and the distance travelled is simply expressed in real space terms.
        """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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          (Mostly copying the comment I did on the other places for visibility)\n
          \n
          > it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”)\n
          \n
          At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The [Constellation](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Constellation_(NCC-1017)), sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the [Hathaway](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Hathaway) also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
          \n
          > It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000c).\n
          \n
          What’s surprising is that subspace signals aren’t that much faster than a given starship is. At full tilt, the Sovereign is almost as fast as the radio signal it’s transmitting, and later generations of starships might well match, or even surpass it.\n
          \n
          > So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed c in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
          \n
          At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
          \n
          > This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS Trek where the outside of the ship looks more like a Stargate-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
          \n
          In TNG, [we see both](https://youtu.be/Vt1FOgi9sVE?t=145), with the tunnel seeming to be a transitory state as the ship accelerates to warp speed. But treating visuals as literal seems like an exercise in futility. There’s a whole bunch of exotic physics we’re not privy to that go on, in much the same way that a Q do not use warp drives for their powers (despite the similar effect), and people don’t disappear in a puff of light when transporting.\n
          \n
          > So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual c values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
          \n
          At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
          \n
          It’d be like giving Calorie two different definitions. Does a 200 Calorie food mean that it has 200 Calories, or 200 KiloCalories, and someone’s just used shorthand?
          """
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        (also copying my answer from the other place)\n
        \n
        Good points, but to address a couple of them:\n
        \n
        > At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The Constellation, sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the Hathaway also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
        \n
        I’m not suggesting that if warp drive gives out that impulse cannot be used. It obviously can be from the examples you’ve quoted, but I’d say that without the warp assist (from internal driver coils or external nacelles), it’s less efficient and speed would be reduced. From SNW: “Memento Mori” itself:\n
        \n
        > **PIKE**: How fast can you push impulse?\n
        > \n
        > **ORTEGAS**: The starboard nacelle is half-damaged. I can get us about half speed.\n
        \n
        Given the Tech Manual’s idea of incorporating warp drivers into impulse engines, I thought this fit in nicely as well with the idea of using a warp field’s mass-lowering properties to assist impulse operations.\n
        \n
        > At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
        \n
        Coincidentally, Sternbach and Okuda have thought about those effects, because the Tech Manual makes passing reference to Starfleet safety standards for subspace field exposure in talking about the inertial dampening system:\n
        \n
        > The IDF operates by maintaining a low-level forcefield throughout the habitable volume of the spacecraft. This field averages 75 millicochranes with field differential limited to 5.26 nanocochranes/meter, per SFRA-standard 352.12 for crew exposure to subspace fields.\n
        \n
        Like many things, they kind of gloss over them, but those millicochrane levels are pretty low, so there must be some kind of protective measure to mitigate against too much direct exposure to subspace. Perhaps it’s in the material hulls and EVA suits are made of? Maybe any deleterious subspace radiation can be blocked easily.\n
        \n
        > At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
        \n
        Although, for practical purposes since ultimately the ship is moving through real space anyway despite being enclosed in a subspace bubble, it all evens out in the wash. I mean, when we’re saying Warp 3 is 39*c* (TNG scale), we still have to ask ourselves 39*c* relative to what? And the answer to that might be relative to subspace as a frame of reference, and the distance travelled is simply expressed in real space terms.
        """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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            (Mostly copying the comment I did on the other places for visibility)\n
            \n
            > it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”)\n
            \n
            At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The [Constellation](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Constellation_(NCC-1017)), sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the [Hathaway](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Hathaway) also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
            \n
            > It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000c).\n
            \n
            What’s surprising is that subspace signals aren’t that much faster than a given starship is. At full tilt, the Sovereign is almost as fast as the radio signal it’s transmitting, and later generations of starships might well match, or even surpass it.\n
            \n
            > So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed c in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
            \n
            At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
            \n
            > This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS Trek where the outside of the ship looks more like a Stargate-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
            \n
            In TNG, [we see both](https://youtu.be/Vt1FOgi9sVE?t=145), with the tunnel seeming to be a transitory state as the ship accelerates to warp speed. But treating visuals as literal seems like an exercise in futility. There’s a whole bunch of exotic physics we’re not privy to that go on, in much the same way that a Q do not use warp drives for their powers (despite the similar effect), and people don’t disappear in a puff of light when transporting.\n
            \n
            > So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual c values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
            \n
            At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
            \n
            It’d be like giving Calorie two different definitions. Does a 200 Calorie food mean that it has 200 Calories, or 200 KiloCalories, and someone’s just used shorthand?
            """
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        +body: """
          (also copying my answer from the other place)\n
          \n
          Good points, but to address a couple of them:\n
          \n
          > At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The Constellation, sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the Hathaway also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
          \n
          I’m not suggesting that if warp drive gives out that impulse cannot be used. It obviously can be from the examples you’ve quoted, but I’d say that without the warp assist (from internal driver coils or external nacelles), it’s less efficient and speed would be reduced. From SNW: “Memento Mori” itself:\n
          \n
          > **PIKE**: How fast can you push impulse?\n
          > \n
          > **ORTEGAS**: The starboard nacelle is half-damaged. I can get us about half speed.\n
          \n
          Given the Tech Manual’s idea of incorporating warp drivers into impulse engines, I thought this fit in nicely as well with the idea of using a warp field’s mass-lowering properties to assist impulse operations.\n
          \n
          > At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
          \n
          Coincidentally, Sternbach and Okuda have thought about those effects, because the Tech Manual makes passing reference to Starfleet safety standards for subspace field exposure in talking about the inertial dampening system:\n
          \n
          > The IDF operates by maintaining a low-level forcefield throughout the habitable volume of the spacecraft. This field averages 75 millicochranes with field differential limited to 5.26 nanocochranes/meter, per SFRA-standard 352.12 for crew exposure to subspace fields.\n
          \n
          Like many things, they kind of gloss over them, but those millicochrane levels are pretty low, so there must be some kind of protective measure to mitigate against too much direct exposure to subspace. Perhaps it’s in the material hulls and EVA suits are made of? Maybe any deleterious subspace radiation can be blocked easily.\n
          \n
          > At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
          \n
          Although, for practical purposes since ultimately the ship is moving through real space anyway despite being enclosed in a subspace bubble, it all evens out in the wash. I mean, when we’re saying Warp 3 is 39*c* (TNG scale), we still have to ask ourselves 39*c* relative to what? And the answer to that might be relative to subspace as a frame of reference, and the distance travelled is simply expressed in real space terms.
          """
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      +body: "There are any number of shuttles lacking warp drive capability that have impulse drives. It seems clear that they need not be interlinked systems. Also, impulse drives still function when a warp core has been jettisoned."
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      As I’ve noted, I’m not saying impulse doesn’t function in the absence of warp. Warp makes impulse more efficient.\n
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      Also, by the mid-24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils build in which produce sublight warp fields to aid in impulse operations.
      """
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        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
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          \n
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          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
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          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
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          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
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      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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            (Mostly copying the comment I did on the other places for visibility)\n
            \n
            > it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”)\n
            \n
            At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The [Constellation](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Constellation_(NCC-1017)), sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the [Hathaway](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Hathaway) also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
            \n
            > It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000c).\n
            \n
            What’s surprising is that subspace signals aren’t that much faster than a given starship is. At full tilt, the Sovereign is almost as fast as the radio signal it’s transmitting, and later generations of starships might well match, or even surpass it.\n
            \n
            > So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed c in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
            \n
            At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
            \n
            > This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS Trek where the outside of the ship looks more like a Stargate-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
            \n
            In TNG, [we see both](https://youtu.be/Vt1FOgi9sVE?t=145), with the tunnel seeming to be a transitory state as the ship accelerates to warp speed. But treating visuals as literal seems like an exercise in futility. There’s a whole bunch of exotic physics we’re not privy to that go on, in much the same way that a Q do not use warp drives for their powers (despite the similar effect), and people don’t disappear in a puff of light when transporting.\n
            \n
            > So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual c values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
            \n
            At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
            \n
            It’d be like giving Calorie two different definitions. Does a 200 Calorie food mean that it has 200 Calories, or 200 KiloCalories, and someone’s just used shorthand?
            """
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          (also copying my answer from the other place)\n
          \n
          Good points, but to address a couple of them:\n
          \n
          > At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The Constellation, sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the Hathaway also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
          \n
          I’m not suggesting that if warp drive gives out that impulse cannot be used. It obviously can be from the examples you’ve quoted, but I’d say that without the warp assist (from internal driver coils or external nacelles), it’s less efficient and speed would be reduced. From SNW: “Memento Mori” itself:\n
          \n
          > **PIKE**: How fast can you push impulse?\n
          > \n
          > **ORTEGAS**: The starboard nacelle is half-damaged. I can get us about half speed.\n
          \n
          Given the Tech Manual’s idea of incorporating warp drivers into impulse engines, I thought this fit in nicely as well with the idea of using a warp field’s mass-lowering properties to assist impulse operations.\n
          \n
          > At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
          \n
          Coincidentally, Sternbach and Okuda have thought about those effects, because the Tech Manual makes passing reference to Starfleet safety standards for subspace field exposure in talking about the inertial dampening system:\n
          \n
          > The IDF operates by maintaining a low-level forcefield throughout the habitable volume of the spacecraft. This field averages 75 millicochranes with field differential limited to 5.26 nanocochranes/meter, per SFRA-standard 352.12 for crew exposure to subspace fields.\n
          \n
          Like many things, they kind of gloss over them, but those millicochrane levels are pretty low, so there must be some kind of protective measure to mitigate against too much direct exposure to subspace. Perhaps it’s in the material hulls and EVA suits are made of? Maybe any deleterious subspace radiation can be blocked easily.\n
          \n
          > At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
          \n
          Although, for practical purposes since ultimately the ship is moving through real space anyway despite being enclosed in a subspace bubble, it all evens out in the wash. I mean, when we’re saying Warp 3 is 39*c* (TNG scale), we still have to ask ourselves 39*c* relative to what? And the answer to that might be relative to subspace as a frame of reference, and the distance travelled is simply expressed in real space terms.
          """
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        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2891 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2889 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2887 …}
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1706062826 {#2900
          date: 2024-01-24 03:20:26.0 +01:00
        }
      }
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718}
      +body: "There are any number of shuttles lacking warp drive capability that have impulse drives. It seems clear that they need not be interlinked systems. Also, impulse drives still function when a warp core has been jettisoned."
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
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      +lastActive: DateTime @1706066257 {#2958
        date: 2024-01-24 04:17:37.0 +01:00
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      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@khaosworks@startrek.website"
        "@T156@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2961 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2963 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2965 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2967 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2969 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2971 …}
      -id: 335820
      -bodyTs: "'also':25 'capabl':10 'clear':17 'core':33 'drive':9,14,27 'function':29 'impuls':13,26 'interlink':23 'jettison':36 'lack':7 'need':20 'number':4 'seem':16 'shuttl':6 'still':28 'system':24 'warp':8,32"
      +ranking: 0
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      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1706066257 {#2959
        date: 2024-01-24 04:17:37.0 +01:00
      }
    }
    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1718}
    +body: """
      As I’ve noted, I’m not saying impulse doesn’t function in the absence of warp. Warp makes impulse more efficient.\n
      \n
      Also, by the mid-24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils build in which produce sublight warp fields to aid in impulse operations.
      """
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
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    +score: 0
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    +ip: null
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    +mentions: [
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      "@T156@lemmy.world"
      "@StillPaisleyCat@startrek.website"
      "@khaosworks@startrek.website"
      "@T156@lemmy.world"
      "@StillPaisleyCat@startrek.website"
      "@khaosworks@startrek.website"
      "@T156@lemmy.world"
      "@StillPaisleyCat@startrek.website"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2986 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2988 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2984 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2990 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2992 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2994 …}
    -id: 335950
    -bodyTs: "'24th':28 'absenc':15 'aid':43 'also':23 'build':35 'centuri':29 'coil':34 'doesn':10 'driver':33 'effici':22 'engin':31 'field':41 'function':12 'impuls':9,20,30,45 'm':6 'make':19 'mid':27 'mid-24th':26 'note':4 'oper':46 'produc':38 'say':8 'sublight':39 've':3 'warp':17,18,40"
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    +upVotes: 0
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    +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1728177431 {#2975
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    }
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1706071475 {#2979
      date: 2024-01-24 05:44:35.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  +showMagazineName: false
  +showEntryTitle: false
  +showNested: true
  +level: 4
  +canSeeTrash: false
  +dateAsUrl: false
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -authorizationChecker: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\AuthorizationChecker {#931 …}
}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 20.0 MiB 0.17 ms
Input props
[
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    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4903 …}
    +cover: null
    +email: "khaosworks@startrek.website"
    +username: "@khaosworks@startrek.website"
    +roles: []
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    +homepage: "front"
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    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4904 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4906 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4908 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4910 …}
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    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4956 …}
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     …2
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  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#6267
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    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4903 …}
    +cover: null
    +email: "khaosworks@startrek.website"
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    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4904 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4906 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4908 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4910 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4912 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4914 …}
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    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4922 …}
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    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4938 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4940 …}
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}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 20.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
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    date: 2024-01-24 05:44:35.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#6322
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1706071475 {#2979
    date: 2024-01-24 05:44:35.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 20.0 MiB 0.20 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1706071475 {#2979
    date: 2024-01-24 05:44:35.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1728177431 {#2975
    date: 2024-10-06 03:17:11.0 +02:00
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#6376
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1706071475 {#2979
    date: 2024-01-24 05:44:35.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1728177431 {#2975
    date: 2024-10-06 03:17:11.0 +02:00
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}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 20.0 MiB 0.17 ms
Input props
[
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    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#4903 …}
    +cover: null
    +email: "khaosworks@startrek.website"
    +username: "@khaosworks@startrek.website"
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    +homepage: "front"
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    +lastActive: DateTime @1728598195 {#4900
      date: 2024-10-11 00:09:55.0 +02:00
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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    +showSubscribedUsers: true
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    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4904 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4906 …}
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    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#4910 …}
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     …2
  }
  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#6430
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  +height: 40
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    +cover: null
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        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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            (Mostly copying the comment I did on the other places for visibility)\n
            \n
            > it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”)\n
            \n
            At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The [Constellation](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Constellation_(NCC-1017)), sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the [Hathaway](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Hathaway) also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
            \n
            > It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000c).\n
            \n
            What’s surprising is that subspace signals aren’t that much faster than a given starship is. At full tilt, the Sovereign is almost as fast as the radio signal it’s transmitting, and later generations of starships might well match, or even surpass it.\n
            \n
            > So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed c in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
            \n
            At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
            \n
            > This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS Trek where the outside of the ship looks more like a Stargate-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
            \n
            In TNG, [we see both](https://youtu.be/Vt1FOgi9sVE?t=145), with the tunnel seeming to be a transitory state as the ship accelerates to warp speed. But treating visuals as literal seems like an exercise in futility. There’s a whole bunch of exotic physics we’re not privy to that go on, in much the same way that a Q do not use warp drives for their powers (despite the similar effect), and people don’t disappear in a puff of light when transporting.\n
            \n
            > So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual c values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
            \n
            At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
            \n
            It’d be like giving Calorie two different definitions. Does a 200 Calorie food mean that it has 200 Calories, or 200 KiloCalories, and someone’s just used shorthand?
            """
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          (also copying my answer from the other place)\n
          \n
          Good points, but to address a couple of them:\n
          \n
          > At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The Constellation, sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the Hathaway also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
          \n
          I’m not suggesting that if warp drive gives out that impulse cannot be used. It obviously can be from the examples you’ve quoted, but I’d say that without the warp assist (from internal driver coils or external nacelles), it’s less efficient and speed would be reduced. From SNW: “Memento Mori” itself:\n
          \n
          > **PIKE**: How fast can you push impulse?\n
          > \n
          > **ORTEGAS**: The starboard nacelle is half-damaged. I can get us about half speed.\n
          \n
          Given the Tech Manual’s idea of incorporating warp drivers into impulse engines, I thought this fit in nicely as well with the idea of using a warp field’s mass-lowering properties to assist impulse operations.\n
          \n
          > At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
          \n
          Coincidentally, Sternbach and Okuda have thought about those effects, because the Tech Manual makes passing reference to Starfleet safety standards for subspace field exposure in talking about the inertial dampening system:\n
          \n
          > The IDF operates by maintaining a low-level forcefield throughout the habitable volume of the spacecraft. This field averages 75 millicochranes with field differential limited to 5.26 nanocochranes/meter, per SFRA-standard 352.12 for crew exposure to subspace fields.\n
          \n
          Like many things, they kind of gloss over them, but those millicochrane levels are pretty low, so there must be some kind of protective measure to mitigate against too much direct exposure to subspace. Perhaps it’s in the material hulls and EVA suits are made of? Maybe any deleterious subspace radiation can be blocked easily.\n
          \n
          > At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
          \n
          Although, for practical purposes since ultimately the ship is moving through real space anyway despite being enclosed in a subspace bubble, it all evens out in the wash. I mean, when we’re saying Warp 3 is 39*c* (TNG scale), we still have to ask ourselves 39*c* relative to what? And the answer to that might be relative to subspace as a frame of reference, and the distance travelled is simply expressed in real space terms.
          """
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      +body: "There are any number of shuttles lacking warp drive capability that have impulse drives. It seems clear that they need not be interlinked systems. Also, impulse drives still function when a warp core has been jettisoned."
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      As I’ve noted, I’m not saying impulse doesn’t function in the absence of warp. Warp makes impulse more efficient.\n
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      Also, by the mid-24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils build in which produce sublight warp fields to aid in impulse operations.
      """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
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          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
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          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
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          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
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          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
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        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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            (Mostly copying the comment I did on the other places for visibility)\n
            \n
            > it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”)\n
            \n
            At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The [Constellation](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Constellation_(NCC-1017)), sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the [Hathaway](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Hathaway) also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
            \n
            > It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000c).\n
            \n
            What’s surprising is that subspace signals aren’t that much faster than a given starship is. At full tilt, the Sovereign is almost as fast as the radio signal it’s transmitting, and later generations of starships might well match, or even surpass it.\n
            \n
            > So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed c in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
            \n
            At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
            \n
            > This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS Trek where the outside of the ship looks more like a Stargate-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
            \n
            In TNG, [we see both](https://youtu.be/Vt1FOgi9sVE?t=145), with the tunnel seeming to be a transitory state as the ship accelerates to warp speed. But treating visuals as literal seems like an exercise in futility. There’s a whole bunch of exotic physics we’re not privy to that go on, in much the same way that a Q do not use warp drives for their powers (despite the similar effect), and people don’t disappear in a puff of light when transporting.\n
            \n
            > So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual c values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
            \n
            At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
            \n
            It’d be like giving Calorie two different definitions. Does a 200 Calorie food mean that it has 200 Calories, or 200 KiloCalories, and someone’s just used shorthand?
            """
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          (also copying my answer from the other place)\n
          \n
          Good points, but to address a couple of them:\n
          \n
          > At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The Constellation, sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the Hathaway also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
          \n
          I’m not suggesting that if warp drive gives out that impulse cannot be used. It obviously can be from the examples you’ve quoted, but I’d say that without the warp assist (from internal driver coils or external nacelles), it’s less efficient and speed would be reduced. From SNW: “Memento Mori” itself:\n
          \n
          > **PIKE**: How fast can you push impulse?\n
          > \n
          > **ORTEGAS**: The starboard nacelle is half-damaged. I can get us about half speed.\n
          \n
          Given the Tech Manual’s idea of incorporating warp drivers into impulse engines, I thought this fit in nicely as well with the idea of using a warp field’s mass-lowering properties to assist impulse operations.\n
          \n
          > At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
          \n
          Coincidentally, Sternbach and Okuda have thought about those effects, because the Tech Manual makes passing reference to Starfleet safety standards for subspace field exposure in talking about the inertial dampening system:\n
          \n
          > The IDF operates by maintaining a low-level forcefield throughout the habitable volume of the spacecraft. This field averages 75 millicochranes with field differential limited to 5.26 nanocochranes/meter, per SFRA-standard 352.12 for crew exposure to subspace fields.\n
          \n
          Like many things, they kind of gloss over them, but those millicochrane levels are pretty low, so there must be some kind of protective measure to mitigate against too much direct exposure to subspace. Perhaps it’s in the material hulls and EVA suits are made of? Maybe any deleterious subspace radiation can be blocked easily.\n
          \n
          > At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
          \n
          Although, for practical purposes since ultimately the ship is moving through real space anyway despite being enclosed in a subspace bubble, it all evens out in the wash. I mean, when we’re saying Warp 3 is 39*c* (TNG scale), we still have to ask ourselves 39*c* relative to what? And the answer to that might be relative to subspace as a frame of reference, and the distance travelled is simply expressed in real space terms.
          """
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      +body: "There are any number of shuttles lacking warp drive capability that have impulse drives. It seems clear that they need not be interlinked systems. Also, impulse drives still function when a warp core has been jettisoned."
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      As I’ve noted, I’m not saying impulse doesn’t function in the absence of warp. Warp makes impulse more efficient.\n
      \n
      Also, by the mid-24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils build in which produce sublight warp fields to aid in impulse operations.
      """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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            (Mostly copying the comment I did on the other places for visibility)\n
            \n
            > it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”)\n
            \n
            At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The [Constellation](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Constellation_(NCC-1017)), sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the [Hathaway](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Hathaway) also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
            \n
            > It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000c).\n
            \n
            What’s surprising is that subspace signals aren’t that much faster than a given starship is. At full tilt, the Sovereign is almost as fast as the radio signal it’s transmitting, and later generations of starships might well match, or even surpass it.\n
            \n
            > So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed c in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
            \n
            At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
            \n
            > This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS Trek where the outside of the ship looks more like a Stargate-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
            \n
            In TNG, [we see both](https://youtu.be/Vt1FOgi9sVE?t=145), with the tunnel seeming to be a transitory state as the ship accelerates to warp speed. But treating visuals as literal seems like an exercise in futility. There’s a whole bunch of exotic physics we’re not privy to that go on, in much the same way that a Q do not use warp drives for their powers (despite the similar effect), and people don’t disappear in a puff of light when transporting.\n
            \n
            > So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual c values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
            \n
            At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
            \n
            It’d be like giving Calorie two different definitions. Does a 200 Calorie food mean that it has 200 Calories, or 200 KiloCalories, and someone’s just used shorthand?
            """
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          (also copying my answer from the other place)\n
          \n
          Good points, but to address a couple of them:\n
          \n
          > At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The Constellation, sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the Hathaway also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
          \n
          I’m not suggesting that if warp drive gives out that impulse cannot be used. It obviously can be from the examples you’ve quoted, but I’d say that without the warp assist (from internal driver coils or external nacelles), it’s less efficient and speed would be reduced. From SNW: “Memento Mori” itself:\n
          \n
          > **PIKE**: How fast can you push impulse?\n
          > \n
          > **ORTEGAS**: The starboard nacelle is half-damaged. I can get us about half speed.\n
          \n
          Given the Tech Manual’s idea of incorporating warp drivers into impulse engines, I thought this fit in nicely as well with the idea of using a warp field’s mass-lowering properties to assist impulse operations.\n
          \n
          > At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
          \n
          Coincidentally, Sternbach and Okuda have thought about those effects, because the Tech Manual makes passing reference to Starfleet safety standards for subspace field exposure in talking about the inertial dampening system:\n
          \n
          > The IDF operates by maintaining a low-level forcefield throughout the habitable volume of the spacecraft. This field averages 75 millicochranes with field differential limited to 5.26 nanocochranes/meter, per SFRA-standard 352.12 for crew exposure to subspace fields.\n
          \n
          Like many things, they kind of gloss over them, but those millicochrane levels are pretty low, so there must be some kind of protective measure to mitigate against too much direct exposure to subspace. Perhaps it’s in the material hulls and EVA suits are made of? Maybe any deleterious subspace radiation can be blocked easily.\n
          \n
          > At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
          \n
          Although, for practical purposes since ultimately the ship is moving through real space anyway despite being enclosed in a subspace bubble, it all evens out in the wash. I mean, when we’re saying Warp 3 is 39*c* (TNG scale), we still have to ask ourselves 39*c* relative to what? And the answer to that might be relative to subspace as a frame of reference, and the distance travelled is simply expressed in real space terms.
          """
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      +body: "There are any number of shuttles lacking warp drive capability that have impulse drives. It seems clear that they need not be interlinked systems. Also, impulse drives still function when a warp core has been jettisoned."
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      As I’ve noted, I’m not saying impulse doesn’t function in the absence of warp. Warp makes impulse more efficient.\n
      \n
      Also, by the mid-24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils build in which produce sublight warp fields to aid in impulse operations.
      """
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          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
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          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
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          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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            (Mostly copying the comment I did on the other places for visibility)\n
            \n
            > it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”)\n
            \n
            At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The [Constellation](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Constellation_(NCC-1017)), sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the [Hathaway](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Hathaway) also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
            \n
            > It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000c).\n
            \n
            What’s surprising is that subspace signals aren’t that much faster than a given starship is. At full tilt, the Sovereign is almost as fast as the radio signal it’s transmitting, and later generations of starships might well match, or even surpass it.\n
            \n
            > So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed c in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
            \n
            At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
            \n
            > This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS Trek where the outside of the ship looks more like a Stargate-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
            \n
            In TNG, [we see both](https://youtu.be/Vt1FOgi9sVE?t=145), with the tunnel seeming to be a transitory state as the ship accelerates to warp speed. But treating visuals as literal seems like an exercise in futility. There’s a whole bunch of exotic physics we’re not privy to that go on, in much the same way that a Q do not use warp drives for their powers (despite the similar effect), and people don’t disappear in a puff of light when transporting.\n
            \n
            > So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual c values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
            \n
            At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
            \n
            It’d be like giving Calorie two different definitions. Does a 200 Calorie food mean that it has 200 Calories, or 200 KiloCalories, and someone’s just used shorthand?
            """
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          (also copying my answer from the other place)\n
          \n
          Good points, but to address a couple of them:\n
          \n
          > At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The Constellation, sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the Hathaway also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
          \n
          I’m not suggesting that if warp drive gives out that impulse cannot be used. It obviously can be from the examples you’ve quoted, but I’d say that without the warp assist (from internal driver coils or external nacelles), it’s less efficient and speed would be reduced. From SNW: “Memento Mori” itself:\n
          \n
          > **PIKE**: How fast can you push impulse?\n
          > \n
          > **ORTEGAS**: The starboard nacelle is half-damaged. I can get us about half speed.\n
          \n
          Given the Tech Manual’s idea of incorporating warp drivers into impulse engines, I thought this fit in nicely as well with the idea of using a warp field’s mass-lowering properties to assist impulse operations.\n
          \n
          > At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
          \n
          Coincidentally, Sternbach and Okuda have thought about those effects, because the Tech Manual makes passing reference to Starfleet safety standards for subspace field exposure in talking about the inertial dampening system:\n
          \n
          > The IDF operates by maintaining a low-level forcefield throughout the habitable volume of the spacecraft. This field averages 75 millicochranes with field differential limited to 5.26 nanocochranes/meter, per SFRA-standard 352.12 for crew exposure to subspace fields.\n
          \n
          Like many things, they kind of gloss over them, but those millicochrane levels are pretty low, so there must be some kind of protective measure to mitigate against too much direct exposure to subspace. Perhaps it’s in the material hulls and EVA suits are made of? Maybe any deleterious subspace radiation can be blocked easily.\n
          \n
          > At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
          \n
          Although, for practical purposes since ultimately the ship is moving through real space anyway despite being enclosed in a subspace bubble, it all evens out in the wash. I mean, when we’re saying Warp 3 is 39*c* (TNG scale), we still have to ask ourselves 39*c* relative to what? And the answer to that might be relative to subspace as a frame of reference, and the distance travelled is simply expressed in real space terms.
          """
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      +body: "There are any number of shuttles lacking warp drive capability that have impulse drives. It seems clear that they need not be interlinked systems. Also, impulse drives still function when a warp core has been jettisoned."
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      As I’ve noted, I’m not saying impulse doesn’t function in the absence of warp. Warp makes impulse more efficient.\n
      \n
      Also, by the mid-24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils build in which produce sublight warp fields to aid in impulse operations.
      """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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            (Mostly copying the comment I did on the other places for visibility)\n
            \n
            > it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”)\n
            \n
            At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The [Constellation](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Constellation_(NCC-1017)), sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the [Hathaway](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Hathaway) also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
            \n
            > It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000c).\n
            \n
            What’s surprising is that subspace signals aren’t that much faster than a given starship is. At full tilt, the Sovereign is almost as fast as the radio signal it’s transmitting, and later generations of starships might well match, or even surpass it.\n
            \n
            > So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed c in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
            \n
            At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
            \n
            > This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS Trek where the outside of the ship looks more like a Stargate-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
            \n
            In TNG, [we see both](https://youtu.be/Vt1FOgi9sVE?t=145), with the tunnel seeming to be a transitory state as the ship accelerates to warp speed. But treating visuals as literal seems like an exercise in futility. There’s a whole bunch of exotic physics we’re not privy to that go on, in much the same way that a Q do not use warp drives for their powers (despite the similar effect), and people don’t disappear in a puff of light when transporting.\n
            \n
            > So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual c values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
            \n
            At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
            \n
            It’d be like giving Calorie two different definitions. Does a 200 Calorie food mean that it has 200 Calories, or 200 KiloCalories, and someone’s just used shorthand?
            """
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          (also copying my answer from the other place)\n
          \n
          Good points, but to address a couple of them:\n
          \n
          > At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The Constellation, sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the Hathaway also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
          \n
          I’m not suggesting that if warp drive gives out that impulse cannot be used. It obviously can be from the examples you’ve quoted, but I’d say that without the warp assist (from internal driver coils or external nacelles), it’s less efficient and speed would be reduced. From SNW: “Memento Mori” itself:\n
          \n
          > **PIKE**: How fast can you push impulse?\n
          > \n
          > **ORTEGAS**: The starboard nacelle is half-damaged. I can get us about half speed.\n
          \n
          Given the Tech Manual’s idea of incorporating warp drivers into impulse engines, I thought this fit in nicely as well with the idea of using a warp field’s mass-lowering properties to assist impulse operations.\n
          \n
          > At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
          \n
          Coincidentally, Sternbach and Okuda have thought about those effects, because the Tech Manual makes passing reference to Starfleet safety standards for subspace field exposure in talking about the inertial dampening system:\n
          \n
          > The IDF operates by maintaining a low-level forcefield throughout the habitable volume of the spacecraft. This field averages 75 millicochranes with field differential limited to 5.26 nanocochranes/meter, per SFRA-standard 352.12 for crew exposure to subspace fields.\n
          \n
          Like many things, they kind of gloss over them, but those millicochrane levels are pretty low, so there must be some kind of protective measure to mitigate against too much direct exposure to subspace. Perhaps it’s in the material hulls and EVA suits are made of? Maybe any deleterious subspace radiation can be blocked easily.\n
          \n
          > At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
          \n
          Although, for practical purposes since ultimately the ship is moving through real space anyway despite being enclosed in a subspace bubble, it all evens out in the wash. I mean, when we’re saying Warp 3 is 39*c* (TNG scale), we still have to ask ourselves 39*c* relative to what? And the answer to that might be relative to subspace as a frame of reference, and the distance travelled is simply expressed in real space terms.
          """
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      +body: "There are any number of shuttles lacking warp drive capability that have impulse drives. It seems clear that they need not be interlinked systems. Also, impulse drives still function when a warp core has been jettisoned."
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      As I’ve noted, I’m not saying impulse doesn’t function in the absence of warp. Warp makes impulse more efficient.\n
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      Also, by the mid-24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils build in which produce sublight warp fields to aid in impulse operations.
      """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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            (Mostly copying the comment I did on the other places for visibility)\n
            \n
            > it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”)\n
            \n
            At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The [Constellation](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Constellation_(NCC-1017)), sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the [Hathaway](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Hathaway) also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
            \n
            > It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000c).\n
            \n
            What’s surprising is that subspace signals aren’t that much faster than a given starship is. At full tilt, the Sovereign is almost as fast as the radio signal it’s transmitting, and later generations of starships might well match, or even surpass it.\n
            \n
            > So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed c in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
            \n
            At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
            \n
            > This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS Trek where the outside of the ship looks more like a Stargate-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
            \n
            In TNG, [we see both](https://youtu.be/Vt1FOgi9sVE?t=145), with the tunnel seeming to be a transitory state as the ship accelerates to warp speed. But treating visuals as literal seems like an exercise in futility. There’s a whole bunch of exotic physics we’re not privy to that go on, in much the same way that a Q do not use warp drives for their powers (despite the similar effect), and people don’t disappear in a puff of light when transporting.\n
            \n
            > So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual c values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
            \n
            At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
            \n
            It’d be like giving Calorie two different definitions. Does a 200 Calorie food mean that it has 200 Calories, or 200 KiloCalories, and someone’s just used shorthand?
            """
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          (also copying my answer from the other place)\n
          \n
          Good points, but to address a couple of them:\n
          \n
          > At the same time, that seems to be contradicted by ships that have no/limited warp capacity having impulse. The Constellation, sibling of the Enterprise, still retained impulse capabilities, in spite of the warp drive being turned into a pile of slag, and it’s implied that the Hathaway also retained impulse, despite the warp core being non-functional. It wouldn’t be much of a simulated combat if the Hathaway could only sit there.\n
          \n
          I’m not suggesting that if warp drive gives out that impulse cannot be used. It obviously can be from the examples you’ve quoted, but I’d say that without the warp assist (from internal driver coils or external nacelles), it’s less efficient and speed would be reduced. From SNW: “Memento Mori” itself:\n
          \n
          > **PIKE**: How fast can you push impulse?\n
          > \n
          > **ORTEGAS**: The starboard nacelle is half-damaged. I can get us about half speed.\n
          \n
          Given the Tech Manual’s idea of incorporating warp drivers into impulse engines, I thought this fit in nicely as well with the idea of using a warp field’s mass-lowering properties to assist impulse operations.\n
          \n
          > At the same time, if they can do that, you might expect that the warp field could then be used as a shield against alterations in the flow of time, or that being in a warp field would be extremely bad for anyone on board who’s relying on biochemistry or conventional physics to live.\n
          \n
          Coincidentally, Sternbach and Okuda have thought about those effects, because the Tech Manual makes passing reference to Starfleet safety standards for subspace field exposure in talking about the inertial dampening system:\n
          \n
          > The IDF operates by maintaining a low-level forcefield throughout the habitable volume of the spacecraft. This field averages 75 millicochranes with field differential limited to 5.26 nanocochranes/meter, per SFRA-standard 352.12 for crew exposure to subspace fields.\n
          \n
          Like many things, they kind of gloss over them, but those millicochrane levels are pretty low, so there must be some kind of protective measure to mitigate against too much direct exposure to subspace. Perhaps it’s in the material hulls and EVA suits are made of? Maybe any deleterious subspace radiation can be blocked easily.\n
          \n
          > At the same time, using a subspace distance unit that conflicts with a realspace distance unit seems like it would cause more trouble than not. If anything, were that to be the case, you’d expect the Federation to have a separate distance for subspace travel, just to avoid people getting confused if there is a disparity between realspace and subspace.\n
          \n
          Although, for practical purposes since ultimately the ship is moving through real space anyway despite being enclosed in a subspace bubble, it all evens out in the wash. I mean, when we’re saying Warp 3 is 39*c* (TNG scale), we still have to ask ourselves 39*c* relative to what? And the answer to that might be relative to subspace as a frame of reference, and the distance travelled is simply expressed in real space terms.
          """
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      +body: "There are any number of shuttles lacking warp drive capability that have impulse drives. It seems clear that they need not be interlinked systems. Also, impulse drives still function when a warp core has been jettisoned."
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      As I’ve noted, I’m not saying impulse doesn’t function in the absence of warp. Warp makes impulse more efficient.\n
      \n
      Also, by the mid-24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils build in which produce sublight warp fields to aid in impulse operations.
      """
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        +title: "daystrominstitute"
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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      > Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
      \n
      You can also arrest them anyway. Logically, it would fit into the timeline, since if they’re from the future, they should have accounted for those circusmtances, including their arrest in their future timeline. And a scan would show a fair few forms of time travel, which you can use to verify, or any connections that you might have with other temporal entities. Time travel is a bit convenient like that, until everything goes horribly wrong.\n
      \n
      But ultimately, nothing actually prevents someone from just out and out lying. They could easily say “oh, sorry, can’t say, Starfleet Intelligence business”, or “I’m here on Captain/Engineering’s orders”, and you’d have that delay in either case to verify the story. The Temporal Prime Directive doesn’t really factor into it.
      """
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        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Temporal-Prime-Directive-Get-Out-of-Jail-Free"
      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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    +body: """
      > Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
      \n
      You can also arrest them anyway. Logically, it would fit into the timeline, since if they’re from the future, they should have accounted for those circusmtances, including their arrest in their future timeline. And a scan would show a fair few forms of time travel, which you can use to verify, or any connections that you might have with other temporal entities. Time travel is a bit convenient like that, until everything goes horribly wrong.\n
      \n
      But ultimately, nothing actually prevents someone from just out and out lying. They could easily say “oh, sorry, can’t say, Starfleet Intelligence business”, or “I’m here on Captain/Engineering’s orders”, and you’d have that delay in either case to verify the story. The Temporal Prime Directive doesn’t really factor into it.
      """
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      +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
      +title: "daystrominstitute"
      +description: """
        [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
        \n
        Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
        \n
        Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
        \n
        ##### **Rules**\n
        \n
        **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
        \n
        All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
        \n
        **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
        \n
        This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
        \n
        **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
        \n
        Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
        \n
        **4. Assume good faith.**\n
        \n
        Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
        \n
        **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
        \n
        Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
        \n
        **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
        \n
        Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
        \n
        #### **Episode Guides**\n
        \n
        The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
        \n
        - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
        - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
        - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
        - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
        """
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    +url: null
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      Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
      \n
      Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
      \n
      Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
      \n
      Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
      \n
      But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
      \n
      You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
      \n
      This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
      \n
      What are your thoughts?
      """
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      +title: "daystrominstitute"
      +description: """
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        \n
        Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
        \n
        Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
        \n
        ##### **Rules**\n
        \n
        **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
        \n
        All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
        \n
        **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
        \n
        This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
        \n
        **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
        \n
        Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
        \n
        **4. Assume good faith.**\n
        \n
        Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
        \n
        **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
        \n
        Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
        \n
        **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
        \n
        Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
        \n
        #### **Episode Guides**\n
        \n
        The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
        \n
        - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
        - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
        - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
        - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
        """
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    +image: null
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    +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
      \n
      Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
      \n
      Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
      \n
      Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
      \n
      But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
      \n
      You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
      \n
      This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
      \n
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      """
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user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 20.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Temporal-Prime-Directive-Get-Out-of-Jail-Free"
      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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    +body: """
      > Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
      \n
      You can also arrest them anyway. Logically, it would fit into the timeline, since if they’re from the future, they should have accounted for those circusmtances, including their arrest in their future timeline. And a scan would show a fair few forms of time travel, which you can use to verify, or any connections that you might have with other temporal entities. Time travel is a bit convenient like that, until everything goes horribly wrong.\n
      \n
      But ultimately, nothing actually prevents someone from just out and out lying. They could easily say “oh, sorry, can’t say, Starfleet Intelligence business”, or “I’m here on Captain/Engineering’s orders”, and you’d have that delay in either case to verify the story. The Temporal Prime Directive doesn’t really factor into it.
      """
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          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Temporal-Prime-Directive-Get-Out-of-Jail-Free"
      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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      > Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
      \n
      You can also arrest them anyway. Logically, it would fit into the timeline, since if they’re from the future, they should have accounted for those circusmtances, including their arrest in their future timeline. And a scan would show a fair few forms of time travel, which you can use to verify, or any connections that you might have with other temporal entities. Time travel is a bit convenient like that, until everything goes horribly wrong.\n
      \n
      But ultimately, nothing actually prevents someone from just out and out lying. They could easily say “oh, sorry, can’t say, Starfleet Intelligence business”, or “I’m here on Captain/Engineering’s orders”, and you’d have that delay in either case to verify the story. The Temporal Prime Directive doesn’t really factor into it.
      """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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      > Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
      \n
      You can also arrest them anyway. Logically, it would fit into the timeline, since if they’re from the future, they should have accounted for those circusmtances, including their arrest in their future timeline. And a scan would show a fair few forms of time travel, which you can use to verify, or any connections that you might have with other temporal entities. Time travel is a bit convenient like that, until everything goes horribly wrong.\n
      \n
      But ultimately, nothing actually prevents someone from just out and out lying. They could easily say “oh, sorry, can’t say, Starfleet Intelligence business”, or “I’m here on Captain/Engineering’s orders”, and you’d have that delay in either case to verify the story. The Temporal Prime Directive doesn’t really factor into it.
      """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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      > Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
      \n
      You can also arrest them anyway. Logically, it would fit into the timeline, since if they’re from the future, they should have accounted for those circusmtances, including their arrest in their future timeline. And a scan would show a fair few forms of time travel, which you can use to verify, or any connections that you might have with other temporal entities. Time travel is a bit convenient like that, until everything goes horribly wrong.\n
      \n
      But ultimately, nothing actually prevents someone from just out and out lying. They could easily say “oh, sorry, can’t say, Starfleet Intelligence business”, or “I’m here on Captain/Engineering’s orders”, and you’d have that delay in either case to verify the story. The Temporal Prime Directive doesn’t really factor into it.
      """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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      > Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
      \n
      You can also arrest them anyway. Logically, it would fit into the timeline, since if they’re from the future, they should have accounted for those circusmtances, including their arrest in their future timeline. And a scan would show a fair few forms of time travel, which you can use to verify, or any connections that you might have with other temporal entities. Time travel is a bit convenient like that, until everything goes horribly wrong.\n
      \n
      But ultimately, nothing actually prevents someone from just out and out lying. They could easily say “oh, sorry, can’t say, Starfleet Intelligence business”, or “I’m here on Captain/Engineering’s orders”, and you’d have that delay in either case to verify the story. The Temporal Prime Directive doesn’t really factor into it.
      """
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        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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      > Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
      \n
      You can also arrest them anyway. Logically, it would fit into the timeline, since if they’re from the future, they should have accounted for those circusmtances, including their arrest in their future timeline. And a scan would show a fair few forms of time travel, which you can use to verify, or any connections that you might have with other temporal entities. Time travel is a bit convenient like that, until everything goes horribly wrong.\n
      \n
      But ultimately, nothing actually prevents someone from just out and out lying. They could easily say “oh, sorry, can’t say, Starfleet Intelligence business”, or “I’m here on Captain/Engineering’s orders”, and you’d have that delay in either case to verify the story. The Temporal Prime Directive doesn’t really factor into it.
      """
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        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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      The TNG Technical Manual has another line that I think supports this general idea:\n
      \n
      > The combination of forces produced within the warp engine core and the flow of space and subspace around the vessel created the particular engineering solution to the problem of faster-than-light travel.\n
      \n
      This seems to support the notion that subspace itself is bleeding into real space around the ship, at least to a degree.
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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       …2
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      The TNG Technical Manual has another line that I think supports this general idea:\n
      \n
      > The combination of forces produced within the warp engine core and the flow of space and subspace around the vessel created the particular engineering solution to the problem of faster-than-light travel.\n
      \n
      This seems to support the notion that subspace itself is bleeding into real space around the ship, at least to a degree.
      """
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  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
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user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 20.0 MiB 0.16 ms
Input props
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Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#7671
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}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 20.0 MiB 0.15 ms
Input props
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      +description: """
        [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
        \n
        Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
        \n
        Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
        \n
        ##### **Rules**\n
        \n
        **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
        \n
        All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
        \n
        **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
        \n
        This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
        \n
        **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
        \n
        Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
        \n
        **4. Assume good faith.**\n
        \n
        Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
        \n
        **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
        \n
        Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
        \n
        **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
        \n
        Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
        \n
        #### **Episode Guides**\n
        \n
        The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
        \n
        - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
        - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
        - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
        - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
        """
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    +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
    +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
      \n
      I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
      \n
      I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
      \n
      So let’s begin.\n
      \n
      **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
      \n
      To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
      \n
      The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
      \n
      > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
      \n
      > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
      \n
      As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
      \n
      Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
      \n
      As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
      \n
      This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
      \n
      **What about subspace?**\n
      \n
      Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
      \n
      We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
      \n
      It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
      \n
      But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
      \n
      **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
      \n
      In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
      \n
      Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
      \n
      (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
      \n
      Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
      \n
      So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
      \n
      This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
      \n
      **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
      \n
      The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
      \n
      My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
      \n
      (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
      \n
      So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
      \n
      **Conclusion**\n
      \n
      So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
      \n
      Thank you for your attention.
      """
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      +description: """
        [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
        \n
        Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
        \n
        Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
        \n
        ##### **Rules**\n
        \n
        **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
        \n
        All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
        \n
        **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
        \n
        This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
        \n
        **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
        \n
        Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
        \n
        **4. Assume good faith.**\n
        \n
        Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
        \n
        **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
        \n
        Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
        \n
        **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
        \n
        Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
        \n
        #### **Episode Guides**\n
        \n
        The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
        \n
        - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
        - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
        - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
        - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
        """
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    +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
    +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
      \n
      I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
      \n
      I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
      \n
      So let’s begin.\n
      \n
      **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
      \n
      To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
      \n
      The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
      \n
      > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
      \n
      > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
      \n
      As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
      \n
      Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
      \n
      As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
      \n
      This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
      \n
      **What about subspace?**\n
      \n
      Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
      \n
      We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
      \n
      It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
      \n
      But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
      \n
      **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
      \n
      In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
      \n
      Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
      \n
      (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
      \n
      Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
      \n
      So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
      \n
      This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
      \n
      **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
      \n
      The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
      \n
      My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
      \n
      (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
      \n
      So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
      \n
      **Conclusion**\n
      \n
      So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
      \n
      Thank you for your attention.
      """
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        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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      The TNG Technical Manual has another line that I think supports this general idea:\n
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      > The combination of forces produced within the warp engine core and the flow of space and subspace around the vessel created the particular engineering solution to the problem of faster-than-light travel.\n
      \n
      This seems to support the notion that subspace itself is bleeding into real space around the ship, at least to a degree.
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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      The TNG Technical Manual has another line that I think supports this general idea:\n
      \n
      > The combination of forces produced within the warp engine core and the flow of space and subspace around the vessel created the particular engineering solution to the problem of faster-than-light travel.\n
      \n
      This seems to support the notion that subspace itself is bleeding into real space around the ship, at least to a degree.
      """
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        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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      The TNG Technical Manual has another line that I think supports this general idea:\n
      \n
      > The combination of forces produced within the warp engine core and the flow of space and subspace around the vessel created the particular engineering solution to the problem of faster-than-light travel.\n
      \n
      This seems to support the notion that subspace itself is bleeding into real space around the ship, at least to a degree.
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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      The TNG Technical Manual has another line that I think supports this general idea:\n
      \n
      > The combination of forces produced within the warp engine core and the flow of space and subspace around the vessel created the particular engineering solution to the problem of faster-than-light travel.\n
      \n
      This seems to support the notion that subspace itself is bleeding into real space around the ship, at least to a degree.
      """
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        *Have you ever considered that the Prime Directive is not only not ethical, but also illogical, and perhaps morally indefensible?*
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
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          #### **Episode Guides**\n
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          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Subspace-Real-Space-Warp-Bubbles-and-a-proposal-as-to"
      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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      The TNG Technical Manual has another line that I think supports this general idea:\n
      \n
      > The combination of forces produced within the warp engine core and the flow of space and subspace around the vessel created the particular engineering solution to the problem of faster-than-light travel.\n
      \n
      This seems to support the notion that subspace itself is bleeding into real space around the ship, at least to a degree.
      """
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        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +title: "Subspace, Real Space, Warp Bubbles and a proposal as to how *Star Trek* Warp Drive might work"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        In this post I’ll be proposing a model to understanding how *Star Trek* warp drive works. In doing so, I’ll be attempting to reconcile the way the *TNG Technical Manual* describes warp drive with the idea that warp drive somehow takes advantages of shortcuts through real space by warping space around the craft, yet still experiences inertial effects.\n
        \n
        I want to point out at the outset that I am not proposing anything analogous to the Alcubierre drive that many fans seem keen on equating with *Star Trek* warp drive. [My objections to conflating the two are laid out here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/s/pZJYYEOv7k) Ultimately, this model involves the ship actually moving at FTL speeds although spacetime distortion is involved.\n
        \n
        I also fully admit I’m not a physicist, so I may - probably - have gotten many things wrong, even with the made-up science I’m going to talk about. I’d appreciate any discussions and suggestions to refine this model, even ones that outright say it’s rubbish and implausible (as long as you be constructive and explain why, so I can learn).\n
        \n
        So let’s begin.\n
        \n
        **How Warp Drive deals with Relativity**\n
        \n
        To recap: the basic obstacle to superluminal or faster-than-light travel is Einstein’s Theory of Special Relativity. Special Relativity says that as the velocity of an object with mass accelerates towards the speed of light (*c*), the mass of that object increases, requiring more and more energy to accelerate it, until at *c*, that object has infinite mass, requiring infinite energy to push it past *c*. In fact, Special Relativity says that nothing with mass can reach *c* - photons are massless and can only travel at *c*.\n
        \n
        The first publicly available description of how *Star Trek* warp drive gets around this came from the licensed *Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual* (1991). At page 65:\n
        \n
        > **WARP PROPULSION**\n
        \n
        > The propulsive effect is achieved by a number of factors working in concert. First, the field formation is controllable in a fore-to-aft direction. As the plasma injectors fire sequentially, the warp field layers build according to the pulse frequency in the plasma, and press upon each other as previously discussed. The cumulative field layer forces reduce the apparent mass of the vehicle and impart the required velocities. The critical transition point occurs when the spacecraft appears to an outside observer to be travelling faster than *c*. As the warp field energy reaches 1000 millicochranes, the ship appears driven across the *c* boundary in less than Planck time, 1.3 x 10^-43 sec, warp physics insuring that the ship will never be precisely at *c*. The three forward coils of each nacelle operate with a slight frequency offset to reinforce the field ahead of the Bussard ramscoop and envelop the Saucer Module. This helps create the field asymmetry required to drive the ship forward.\n
        \n
        As we read here, *Star Trek* gets around Special Relativity by using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship and lower its inertial mass so that the shaping of the warp fields and layers around the ship can push and accelerate the ship itself towards *c* with reasonable energy requirements. We see warp fields lower mass in TNG: “Deja Q” and DS9: “Emissary”.\n
        \n
        Note that while ships are equipped with impulse drives, impulse operations are purely sublight in nature. In fact, the Tech Manual says that impulse doesn’t even enter into it at all when a ship goes to warp. It is the increasing strength of the warp field, shaped by the asymmetrical firing of the warp nacelles that produce it, that ultimately propels the ship without the need for impulse or reaction engines being involved. However, the ship still experiences inertial forces through this propulsion, necessitating inertial dampening fields (VOY: “Tattoo”, *ST 2009*).\n
        \n
        As field strength (measured in units of millicochranes) increases, the lower the inertial mass gets and it becomes easier to accelerate towards warp (*TMP*). When the field hits a strength of 1000 millicochranes, the ship hits *c*, or Warp 1. Or rather, it straddles the boundary between 0.999*c* and 1.001*c*, spending no more than 1.3 * 10^-43 seconds at either velocity, so that it can apparently maintain velocity at *c* without the infinite energy requirements otherwise needed.\n
        \n
        This is in contrast to sublight impulse engines which work *in tandem* with a warp field to take advantage of its mass-lowering effect. In the 23rd Century, it is implied the nacelles assist with impulse operations (SNW: “Memento Mori”), and in the 24th Century, impulse engines have driver coils built in which create a sub-1000 millicochrane warp field (*TNG Tech Manual*). In the 22nd Century, the NX-01’s impulse engines also had driver coils installed, but for the opposite reason - to *increase* the apparent mass of the ejected propellant as it exited the engines so it could provide greater thrust (*USS Enterprise Haynes Manual*).\n
        \n
        **What about subspace?**\n
        \n
        Now, to be fair, the idea of using a warp field to distort spacetime around the ship to propel the ship does sound an awfully lot like Alcubierre. But where warp drive differs is that unlike Alcubierre, the ship still feels inertial effects and is able to interact with objects outside of the warp field. In other words, the ship is still firmly moving through real space, not completely insulated and stationary within the warp bubble while space moves around it. Alcubierre’s bubble also doesn’t have a mass-lowering effect.\n
        \n
        We know from the show that subspace is its own realm, with its own layers and domains (TNG: “Remember Me”) where even life can exist (TNG: “Schisms”). That has led to a suggestion that when a ship enters warp, it enters subspace which serves like a sort of hyperspace shortcut or wormhole. However, this has its difficulties in that it doesn’t explain why a ship in warp can still interact with objects outside of subspace as if it were in real space.\n
        \n
        It is clear, though, that subspace has its own physical laws and its own special frame of reference, one of which is that you can exceed the speed of light in it: for example, the use of subspace radio which transmits at, in TNG times, Warp 9.997 (approximately 79,000*c*). In *Star Trek*, they generate subspace fields like we generate electromagnetic fields - in fact, the warp field *is* a subspace field.\n
        \n
        But how does this relate to warp drive? Allow me a little sidestep into another franchise to draw a rough analogy.\n
        \n
        **Domain amplification and subspace**\n
        \n
        In the manga/anime series *Jujutsu Kaisen*, one of the magical techniques that the most powerful sorcerers use to battle each other is called “domain expansion”. This creates a closed area centered on the sorcerer enclosing their target, an area in which the sorcerer sets the rules, akin to a zone in which they receive a power buff. Inside it, if the domain is not countered, the sorcerer’s strikes will always hit the target. The sorcerer’s abilities are enhanced and various other things can happen depending on the rules that the sorcerer has preset into the domain.\n
        \n
        Another use of domains is called “domain amplification”. This is not a full domain expansion, but surrounds the attacking sorcerer with a skin or bubble that has domain effects. It doesn’t use as much power as a full expansion, but is used to nullify any defensive techniques the target sorcerer might have, by imposing the attacking domain’s own rules against the technique. This still allows the attacking sorcerer to interact with things outside this domain bubble while taking advantage of some of its effects.\n
        \n
        (All this will make sense, I promise)\n
        \n
        Let’s imagine that real space is a domain that follows the rules that we associate with an Einstein/Newtonian universe, where relativity holds sway. Then we have another domain - subspace - where relativity can be ignored or at least circumvented.\n
        \n
        So what if generating a warp field is like domain amplification, creating a bubble of a subspace domain that encloses the ship? This subspace or warp bubble is then shaped by the nacelles, which distorts space locally, allowing the bubble and the ship to be propelled along at FTL speed. This is because while inside the bubble, the rules of subspace apply, not the relativistic rules of real space. It therefore becomes possible to exceed *c* in that special frame of reference. And yet, the bubble is still strongly connected to real space, so the ship can interact with objects outside the bubble. This explains the existence of Newtonian forces like inertia, acceleration and momentum still acting on the ship, and the continuing need for inertial dampers at warp.\n
        \n
        This tight coupling to real space is also why we can see “stars” streaking by while in warp (more likely dust particles in real space being accelerated as they are caught in the ship’s warp bubble). The visual change in post-DIS *Trek* where the outside of the ship looks more like a *Stargate*-ish tunnel can be explained away as what the interior of the warp bubble looks like stretched out, as the ship speeds along within it like a canoe on a river, being propelled by layers of warp energy within the bubble and also carried along by the current within the bubble itself as it cruises along.\n
        \n
        **Subspace and spacetime shortcuts**\n
        \n
        The existence of subspace as a separate dimensional realm also provides us with a possible solution for the disparity between what the TNG Tech Manual gives us as absolute *c* values for various warp factors and the speed of plot that we see on screen. Often, the time taken between star systems and sectors is much shorter than what we would expect given the warp factors quoted, if the ship did indeed travel at the *c* values given by the Tech Manual.\n
        \n
        My suggestion is that subspace is not a one-to-one correspondence with real space, but exists in a “higher” dimensional plane where distances in subspace are much shorter compared to their real space counterparts. For example, what would take 200 light years to traverse in real space would be, say only be equivalent to 20 light years travel distance in subspace.\n
        \n
        (I’m just tossing out figures here - I don’t obviously mean this as an exact ratio, and for all we know depending on the architecture of subspace the exact correspondence can vary widely, which again helps fit the speed of plot.)\n
        \n
        So this further suggests that the TNG Tech Manual *c* values are meant to reflect speeds in subspace, or rather the ship’s velocity within the warp bubble, which translates to faster velocities and thus further distances travelled in real space. In effect the ship, by surrounding itself with a subspace domain, creates its own shortcut/wormhole through real space.\n
        \n
        **Conclusion**\n
        \n
        So, TL;dr: *Star Trek* warp drive works by surrounding the ship with a warp field, a bubble of subspace which both lowers the inertial mass of the ship and removes it from the relativistic requirements of real space. Propulsion is achieved by shaping the field, but within the subspace bubble the ship still moves and can act on real space as well as experience inertial forces. Additionally, the warped relationship of subspace to real space means that distances travelled in subspace move the ship much further in real space, and that warp factor velocities reflect the speed at which the ship moves in subspace rather than real space.\n
        \n
        Thank you for your attention.
        """
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      The TNG Technical Manual has another line that I think supports this general idea:\n
      \n
      > The combination of forces produced within the warp engine core and the flow of space and subspace around the vessel created the particular engineering solution to the problem of faster-than-light travel.\n
      \n
      This seems to support the notion that subspace itself is bleeding into real space around the ship, at least to a degree.
      """
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      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#8374 …}
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        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +image: null
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        I like coffee. I like Star Trek.\n
        \n
        I’ve had a mild interest in the raktajino, a Klingon coffee drink commonly consumed in DS9. I’ve looked up a few fan theories and fan recipes. I haven’t seen any references to a canonical recipe, so I get that there’s a bit of fun and personal preference involved.\n
        \n
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  "showNested" => true
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent {#8337
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      +cover: null
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      +markedForDeletionAt: null
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      +customCss: null
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      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2135 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2137 …}
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        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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        +markedForDeletionAt: null
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        +apDiscoverable: true
        +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
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        }
        +apDeletedAt: null
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          date: 2023-10-17 10:08:00.0 +02:00
        }
      }
      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3162 …}
      +slug: "Raktajino-has-liquor-in-it"
      +title: "Raktajino... has liquor in it?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        I like coffee. I like Star Trek.\n
        \n
        I’ve had a mild interest in the raktajino, a Klingon coffee drink commonly consumed in DS9. I’ve looked up a few fan theories and fan recipes. I haven’t seen any references to a canonical recipe, so I get that there’s a bit of fun and personal preference involved.\n
        \n
        The only thing I don’t understand is why raktajino is commonly claimed to be made with liquor. On the one hand, I understand why Klingons might want a stiff additive to their caffeine. However, the context in which characters on DS9 drink it does not suggest the presence of intoxicants. I recall at least a few occasions in which bridge officers, while on duty, drink a raktajino. Surely even synthol is not OK when you’re on shift for Starfleet.
        """
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    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
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  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
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}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 20.0 MiB 0.15 ms
Input props
[
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    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2143 …}
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        \n
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        - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
        - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
        - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
        - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
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        \n
        Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
        \n
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        \n
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        \n
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        \n
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        \n
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        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
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        - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
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      date: 2023-12-05 01:39:21.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 20.0 MiB 0.42 ms
Input props
[
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    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2143 …}
    +cover: null
    +email: "edgemaster72@lemmy.world"
    +username: "@edgemaster72@lemmy.world"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1728674342 {#2325
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
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    +hideAdult: true
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    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2135 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2137 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2068 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2069 …}
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    +apDiscoverable: true
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    +privateKey: null
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#8618
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  +height: 40
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    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2143 …}
    +cover: null
    +email: "edgemaster72@lemmy.world"
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    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
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      date: 2024-10-11 21:19:02.0 +02:00
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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    +customCss: null
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    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2135 …}
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    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2069 …}
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      date: 2023-06-18 04:51:34.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +asLink: true
}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 20.0 MiB 0.42 ms
Input props
[
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    +user: App\Entity\User {#2159
      +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2143 …}
      +cover: null
      +email: "edgemaster72@lemmy.world"
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        date: 2024-10-11 21:19:02.0 +02:00
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      +markedForDeletionAt: null
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      +customCss: null
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        date: 2024-10-14 22:15:13.0 +02:00
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      +apDeletedAt: null
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        date: 2023-06-18 04:51:34.0 +02:00
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    }
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2323
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#8374 …}
      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
        +rules: null
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        +customCss: null
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          date: 2024-10-18 00:41:21.0 +02:00
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        +markedForDeletionAt: null
        +tags: null
        +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#278 …}
        +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#274 …}
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        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#101 …}
        +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#88 …}
        -id: 60
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        +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728907748 {#315
          date: 2024-10-14 14:09:08.0 +02:00
        }
        +apDeletedAt: null
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        +visibility: "visible             "
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          date: 2023-10-17 10:08:00.0 +02:00
        }
      }
      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3162 …}
      +slug: "Raktajino-has-liquor-in-it"
      +title: "Raktajino... has liquor in it?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        I like coffee. I like Star Trek.\n
        \n
        I’ve had a mild interest in the raktajino, a Klingon coffee drink commonly consumed in DS9. I’ve looked up a few fan theories and fan recipes. I haven’t seen any references to a canonical recipe, so I get that there’s a bit of fun and personal preference involved.\n
        \n
        The only thing I don’t understand is why raktajino is commonly claimed to be made with liquor. On the one hand, I understand why Klingons might want a stiff additive to their caffeine. However, the context in which characters on DS9 drink it does not suggest the presence of intoxicants. I recall at least a few occasions in which bridge officers, while on duty, drink a raktajino. Surely even synthol is not OK when you’re on shift for Starfleet.
        """
      +type: "article"
      +lang: "en"
      +isOc: false
      +hasEmbed: false
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      +lastActive: DateTime @1724395167 {#8375
        date: 2024-08-23 08:39:27.0 +02:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +adaAmount: 0
      +tags: null
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      +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#8380 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#8383 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#8385 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#8387 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#8389 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#8391 …}
      +children: []
      -id: 20131
      -titleTs: "'liquor':3 'raktajino':1"
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      +cross: false
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1701736761 {#8372
        date: 2023-12-05 01:39:21.0 +01:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
    +image: null
    +parent: null
    +root: null
    +body: "Only when O’Brien makes it"
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
    +favouriteCount: 0
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    }
    +ip: null
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    +mentions: [
      "@OneCardboardBox@lemmy.sdf.org"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2324 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2334 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2341 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2337 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2336 …}
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    -id: 312145
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      date: 2024-01-16 00:41:33.0 +01:00
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent {#8689
  +subject: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2333
    +user: App\Entity\User {#2159
      +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2143 …}
      +cover: null
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          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
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          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
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          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
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          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
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          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
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        \n
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          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
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          \n
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          \n
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          \n
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          \n
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          \n
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          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
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          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
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          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
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          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
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          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
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        \n
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        \n
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      +lastActive: DateTime @1724395167 {#8375
        date: 2024-08-23 08:39:27.0 +02:00
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      +ip: null
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      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#8385 …}
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      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#8389 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#8391 …}
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        date: 2023-12-05 01:39:21.0 +01:00
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      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
    +image: null
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    +body: "Only when O’Brien makes it"
    +lang: "en"
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  "level" => 1
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]
Attributes
[
  "showNested" => true
]
Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentsNestedComponent {#8986
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    +user: App\Entity\User {#2159
      +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2143 …}
      +cover: null
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      +markedForDeletionAt: null
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    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2323
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#8374 …}
      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
        +rules: null
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        +markedForDeletionAt: null
        +tags: null
        +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#278 …}
        +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#274 …}
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        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#144 …}
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        +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#112 …}
        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#101 …}
        +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#88 …}
        -id: 60
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        +apInboxUrl: "https://startrek.website/inbox"
        +apDomain: "startrek.website"
        +apPreferredUsername: "daystrominstitute"
        +apDiscoverable: true
        +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
        +privateKey: null
        +publicKey: null
        +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728907748 {#315
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        }
        +apDeletedAt: null
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697530080 {#309
          date: 2023-10-17 10:08:00.0 +02:00
        }
      }
      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3162 …}
      +slug: "Raktajino-has-liquor-in-it"
      +title: "Raktajino... has liquor in it?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        I like coffee. I like Star Trek.\n
        \n
        I’ve had a mild interest in the raktajino, a Klingon coffee drink commonly consumed in DS9. I’ve looked up a few fan theories and fan recipes. I haven’t seen any references to a canonical recipe, so I get that there’s a bit of fun and personal preference involved.\n
        \n
        The only thing I don’t understand is why raktajino is commonly claimed to be made with liquor. On the one hand, I understand why Klingons might want a stiff additive to their caffeine. However, the context in which characters on DS9 drink it does not suggest the presence of intoxicants. I recall at least a few occasions in which bridge officers, while on duty, drink a raktajino. Surely even synthol is not OK when you’re on shift for Starfleet.
        """
      +type: "article"
      +lang: "en"
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      +hasEmbed: false
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      }
      +ip: null
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        date: 2023-12-05 01:39:21.0 +01:00
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      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
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    +lang: "en"
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    }
    +ip: null
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    +mentions: [
      "@OneCardboardBox@lemmy.sdf.org"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2324 …}
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    }
  }
  +nestedComments: []
  +level: 1
  +view: "tree"
  -entryCommentRepository: App\Repository\EntryCommentRepository {#556 …}
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -security: Symfony\Bundle\SecurityBundle\Security {#1101 …}
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
}
entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 20.0 MiB 12.72 ms
Input props
[
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    +user: App\Entity\User {#2214
      +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2213 …}
      +cover: null
      +email: "Corgana@startrek.website"
      +username: "@Corgana@startrek.website"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
      +homepage: "front"
      +about: """
        /r/StarTrek founder and primary steward from 2008-2021\n
        \n
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        """
      +lastActive: DateTime @1729479179 {#2120
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      +markedForDeletionAt: null
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      +hideAdult: true
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      +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
      +addMentionsEntries: false
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      +customCss: null
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      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2225 …}
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      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2252 …}
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      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2302 …}
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      +privateKey: null
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    }
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2162
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#9093 …}
      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
        +rules: null
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      +title: "Repetitive Epics"
      +url: null
      +body: "Garak asserts to Bashir that the Repetitive Epic is the finest form of Cardassian literature. I was wondering, is there any real-life literature that could be considered a “repetitive epic” in the same vein as “The Neverending Sacrifice?”"
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       …2
    }
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
    +image: null
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    +body: """
      I love this question. My first thought was not a book, but Béla Tarr’s *The Turin Horse* which depicts the repetitive life of a Hungarian farmer and his daughter. Each day is essentially the same, with similar but ever-changing frustrations, and no hope for change in sight. The audience really feels their frustrations, but the characters also appear to have fully accepted the situation. The title is a reference to the horse-whipping that allegedly drove Nietzsche insane.\n
      \n
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      """
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  "showNested" => true
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent {#9056
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    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2162
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        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Repetitive-Epics"
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      +body: "Garak asserts to Bashir that the Repetitive Epic is the finest form of Cardassian literature. I was wondering, is there any real-life literature that could be considered a “repetitive epic” in the same vein as “The Neverending Sacrifice?”"
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      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
    +image: null
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    +body: """
      I love this question. My first thought was not a book, but Béla Tarr’s *The Turin Horse* which depicts the repetitive life of a Hungarian farmer and his daughter. Each day is essentially the same, with similar but ever-changing frustrations, and no hope for change in sight. The audience really feels their frustrations, but the characters also appear to have fully accepted the situation. The title is a reference to the horse-whipping that allegedly drove Nietzsche insane.\n
      \n
      Not quite an “epic” in the usual sense, but absolutely repetitive and a surrender to economic powers beyond one’s control.
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  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
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}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 20.0 MiB 0.18 ms
Input props
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      date: 2023-07-15 13:46:05.0 +02:00
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#9119
  +user: App\Entity\User {#2214
    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2213 …}
    +cover: null
    +email: "Corgana@startrek.website"
    +username: "@Corgana@startrek.website"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: """
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    +lastActive: DateTime @1729479179 {#2120
      date: 2024-10-21 04:52:59.0 +02:00
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
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    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
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    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2225 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2231 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2229 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2252 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2189 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2311 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2293 …}
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    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2302 …}
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    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2308 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2304 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2319 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2318 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2316 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2294 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2296 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2281 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2280 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2278 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2279 …}
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    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2222 …}
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    +privateKey: null
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    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728312694 {#2161
      date: 2024-10-07 16:51:34.0 +02:00
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689421565 {#2160
      date: 2023-07-15 13:46:05.0 +02:00
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}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 20.0 MiB 0.16 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1705178280 {#2116
    date: 2024-01-13 21:38:00.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#9174
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1705178280 {#2116
    date: 2024-01-13 21:38:00.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 20.0 MiB 0.10 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1705178280 {#2116
    date: 2024-01-13 21:38:00.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#9228
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705178280 {#2116
    date: 2024-01-13 21:38:00.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
entry_inline App\Twig\Components\EntryInlineComponent 20.0 MiB 0.15 ms
Input props
[
  "entry" => Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2162
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#9093 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
      +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
      +title: "daystrominstitute"
      +description: """
        [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
        \n
        Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
        \n
        Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
        \n
        ##### **Rules**\n
        \n
        **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
        \n
        All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
        \n
        **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
        \n
        This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
        \n
        **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
        \n
        Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
        \n
        **4. Assume good faith.**\n
        \n
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        \n
        **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
        \n
        Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
        \n
        **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
        \n
        Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
        \n
        #### **Episode Guides**\n
        \n
        The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
        \n
        - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
        - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
        - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
        - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
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      +rules: null
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        date: 2024-10-18 00:41:21.0 +02:00
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      +markedForDeletionAt: null
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      +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#278 …}
      +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#274 …}
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      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
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      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728907748 {#315
        date: 2024-10-14 14:09:08.0 +02:00
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        date: 2023-10-17 10:08:00.0 +02:00
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    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3162 …}
    +slug: "Repetitive-Epics"
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    +url: null
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    +ip: null
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     …2
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryInlineComponent {#9282
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2162
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#9093 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
      +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
      +title: "daystrominstitute"
      +description: """
        [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
        \n
        Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
        \n
        Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
        \n
        ##### **Rules**\n
        \n
        **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
        \n
        All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
        \n
        **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
        \n
        This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
        \n
        **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
        \n
        Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
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        **4. Assume good faith.**\n
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        \n
        **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
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        \n
        **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
        \n
        Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
        \n
        #### **Episode Guides**\n
        \n
        The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
        \n
        - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
        - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
        - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
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     …2
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}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 20.0 MiB 0.39 ms
Input props
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    +cover: null
    +email: "Corgana@startrek.website"
    +username: "@Corgana@startrek.website"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: """
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      \n
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    +lastActive: DateTime @1729479179 {#2120
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    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
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    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2225 …}
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  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#9337
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vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 20.0 MiB 0.38 ms
Input props
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          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
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          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
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          \n
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          \n
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          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
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          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
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          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3162 …}
      +slug: "Repetitive-Epics"
      +title: "Repetitive Epics"
      +url: null
      +body: "Garak asserts to Bashir that the Repetitive Epic is the finest form of Cardassian literature. I was wondering, is there any real-life literature that could be considered a “repetitive epic” in the same vein as “The Neverending Sacrifice?”"
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       …2
    }
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
    +image: null
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    +body: """
      I love this question. My first thought was not a book, but Béla Tarr’s *The Turin Horse* which depicts the repetitive life of a Hungarian farmer and his daughter. Each day is essentially the same, with similar but ever-changing frustrations, and no hope for change in sight. The audience really feels their frustrations, but the characters also appear to have fully accepted the situation. The title is a reference to the horse-whipping that allegedly drove Nietzsche insane.\n
      \n
      Not quite an “epic” in the usual sense, but absolutely repetitive and a surrender to economic powers beyond one’s control.
      """
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    ]
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent {#9418
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        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +title: "Repetitive Epics"
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    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
    +image: null
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      I love this question. My first thought was not a book, but Béla Tarr’s *The Turin Horse* which depicts the repetitive life of a Hungarian farmer and his daughter. Each day is essentially the same, with similar but ever-changing frustrations, and no hope for change in sight. The audience really feels their frustrations, but the characters also appear to have fully accepted the situation. The title is a reference to the horse-whipping that allegedly drove Nietzsche insane.\n
      \n
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    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2044 …}
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  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
}
boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 20.0 MiB 1.18 ms
Input props
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        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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       …2
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    +image: null
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    +body: """
      I love this question. My first thought was not a book, but Béla Tarr’s *The Turin Horse* which depicts the repetitive life of a Hungarian farmer and his daughter. Each day is essentially the same, with similar but ever-changing frustrations, and no hope for change in sight. The audience really feels their frustrations, but the characters also appear to have fully accepted the situation. The title is a reference to the horse-whipping that allegedly drove Nietzsche insane.\n
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent {#9475
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        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      I love this question. My first thought was not a book, but Béla Tarr’s *The Turin Horse* which depicts the repetitive life of a Hungarian farmer and his daughter. Each day is essentially the same, with similar but ever-changing frustrations, and no hope for change in sight. The audience really feels their frustrations, but the characters also appear to have fully accepted the situation. The title is a reference to the horse-whipping that allegedly drove Nietzsche insane.\n
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      I love this question. My first thought was not a book, but Béla Tarr’s *The Turin Horse* which depicts the repetitive life of a Hungarian farmer and his daughter. Each day is essentially the same, with similar but ever-changing frustrations, and no hope for change in sight. The audience really feels their frustrations, but the characters also appear to have fully accepted the situation. The title is a reference to the horse-whipping that allegedly drove Nietzsche insane.\n
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        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
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        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +body: "Garak asserts to Bashir that the Repetitive Epic is the finest form of Cardassian literature. I was wondering, is there any real-life literature that could be considered a “repetitive epic” in the same vein as “The Neverending Sacrifice?”"
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    }
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
    +image: null
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    +body: """
      I love this question. My first thought was not a book, but Béla Tarr’s *The Turin Horse* which depicts the repetitive life of a Hungarian farmer and his daughter. Each day is essentially the same, with similar but ever-changing frustrations, and no hope for change in sight. The audience really feels their frustrations, but the characters also appear to have fully accepted the situation. The title is a reference to the horse-whipping that allegedly drove Nietzsche insane.\n
      \n
      Not quite an “epic” in the usual sense, but absolutely repetitive and a surrender to economic powers beyond one’s control.
      """
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  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
}
entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 20.0 MiB 8.93 ms
Input props
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        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Repetitive-Epics"
      +title: "Repetitive Epics"
      +url: null
      +body: "Garak asserts to Bashir that the Repetitive Epic is the finest form of Cardassian literature. I was wondering, is there any real-life literature that could be considered a “repetitive epic” in the same vein as “The Neverending Sacrifice?”"
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       …2
    }
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
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    +body: """
      I don’t know what the most *similar* novel to **The Neverending Sacrifice** might be, but I think the exact opposite is probably the 1970s novels satirizing the British Raj called *The Flashman Papers*. They are incredibly funny, highly offensive, beautiful assaults on the landed gentry, set during one of the most incompetent, badly failed military expeditions to Afghanistan in the history of badly failed military expeditions to Afghanistan–the British one.\n
      \n
      No, not the American one with British help–the actual British one, from way back in the seventeenth century.
      """
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        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      }
      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3162 …}
      +slug: "Repetitive-Epics"
      +title: "Repetitive Epics"
      +url: null
      +body: "Garak asserts to Bashir that the Repetitive Epic is the finest form of Cardassian literature. I was wondering, is there any real-life literature that could be considered a “repetitive epic” in the same vein as “The Neverending Sacrifice?”"
      +type: "article"
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    }
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
    +image: null
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    +body: """
      I don’t know what the most *similar* novel to **The Neverending Sacrifice** might be, but I think the exact opposite is probably the 1970s novels satirizing the British Raj called *The Flashman Papers*. They are incredibly funny, highly offensive, beautiful assaults on the landed gentry, set during one of the most incompetent, badly failed military expeditions to Afghanistan in the history of badly failed military expeditions to Afghanistan–the British one.\n
      \n
      No, not the American one with British help–the actual British one, from way back in the seventeenth century.
      """
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]
Attributes
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Component
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Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#9939
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      +title: "daystrominstitute"
      +description: """
        [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
        \n
        Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
        \n
        Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
        \n
        ##### **Rules**\n
        \n
        **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
        \n
        All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
        \n
        **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
        \n
        This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
        \n
        **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
        \n
        Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
        \n
        **4. Assume good faith.**\n
        \n
        Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
        \n
        **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
        \n
        Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
        \n
        **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
        \n
        Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
        \n
        #### **Episode Guides**\n
        \n
        The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
        \n
        - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
        - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
        - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
        - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
        """
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      +entryCount: 30
      +entryCommentCount: 161
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        date: 2024-10-18 00:41:21.0 +02:00
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      +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#278 …}
      +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#274 …}
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        date: 2024-10-14 14:09:08.0 +02:00
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      +apDeletedAt: null
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        date: 2023-10-17 10:08:00.0 +02:00
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    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3162 …}
    +slug: "Repetitive-Epics"
    +title: "Repetitive Epics"
    +url: null
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     …2
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryInlineComponent {#9993
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2162
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#9093 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
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      +title: "daystrominstitute"
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        [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
        \n
        Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
        \n
        Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
        \n
        ##### **Rules**\n
        \n
        **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
        \n
        All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
        \n
        **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
        \n
        This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
        \n
        **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
        \n
        Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
        \n
        **4. Assume good faith.**\n
        \n
        Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
        \n
        **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
        \n
        Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
        \n
        **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
        \n
        Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
        \n
        #### **Episode Guides**\n
        \n
        The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
        \n
        - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
        - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
        - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
        - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
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    }
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3162 …}
    +slug: "Repetitive-Epics"
    +title: "Repetitive Epics"
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    +ip: null
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    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9099 …}
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    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9110 …}
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    +upVotes: 0
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    +ranking: 1705122360
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    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705035960 {#9091
      date: 2024-01-12 06:06:00.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 20.0 MiB 0.16 ms
Input props
[
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    +avatar: null
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    +email: "inappropriatecontent@startrek.website"
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    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
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    +lastActive: DateTime @1727173925 {#2196
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    +customCss: null
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    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2200 …}
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#10048
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vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 20.0 MiB 0.37 ms
Input props
[
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        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +image: null
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      +title: "Repetitive Epics"
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    }
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
    +image: null
    +parent: null
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      I don’t know what the most *similar* novel to **The Neverending Sacrifice** might be, but I think the exact opposite is probably the 1970s novels satirizing the British Raj called *The Flashman Papers*. They are incredibly funny, highly offensive, beautiful assaults on the landed gentry, set during one of the most incompetent, badly failed military expeditions to Afghanistan in the history of badly failed military expeditions to Afghanistan–the British one.\n
      \n
      No, not the American one with British help–the actual British one, from way back in the seventeenth century.
      """
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent {#10139
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      +spamProtection: true
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      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2270 …}
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      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2267 …}
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      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#9093 …}
      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#101 …}
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      }
      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3162 …}
      +slug: "Repetitive-Epics"
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      +type: "article"
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      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
    +image: null
    +parent: null
    +root: null
    +body: """
      I don’t know what the most *similar* novel to **The Neverending Sacrifice** might be, but I think the exact opposite is probably the 1970s novels satirizing the British Raj called *The Flashman Papers*. They are incredibly funny, highly offensive, beautiful assaults on the landed gentry, set during one of the most incompetent, badly failed military expeditions to Afghanistan in the history of badly failed military expeditions to Afghanistan–the British one.\n
      \n
      No, not the American one with British help–the actual British one, from way back in the seventeenth century.
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    +lang: "en"
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    +ip: null
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    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2193 …}
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}
boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 20.0 MiB 0.66 ms
Input props
[
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
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          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
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          \n
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          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
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          \n
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          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
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          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
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          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
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          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
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entry_comments_nested App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentsNestedComponent 20.0 MiB 0.70 ms
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          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
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          \n
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          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
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      I don’t know what the most *similar* novel to **The Neverending Sacrifice** might be, but I think the exact opposite is probably the 1970s novels satirizing the British Raj called *The Flashman Papers*. They are incredibly funny, highly offensive, beautiful assaults on the landed gentry, set during one of the most incompetent, badly failed military expeditions to Afghanistan in the history of badly failed military expeditions to Afghanistan–the British one.\n
      \n
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      """
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App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentsNestedComponent {#10436
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      I don’t know what the most *similar* novel to **The Neverending Sacrifice** might be, but I think the exact opposite is probably the 1970s novels satirizing the British Raj called *The Flashman Papers*. They are incredibly funny, highly offensive, beautiful assaults on the landed gentry, set during one of the most incompetent, badly failed military expeditions to Afghanistan in the history of badly failed military expeditions to Afghanistan–the British one.\n
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      No, not the American one with British help–the actual British one, from way back in the seventeenth century.
      """
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        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Temporal-Prime-Directive-Get-Out-of-Jail-Free"
      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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    +body: """
      Chakotay once used the TPD as an excuse to not answer a question from Janeway.\n
      \n
      And she just accepted it.
      """
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        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Temporal-Prime-Directive-Get-Out-of-Jail-Free"
      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
    +image: null
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    +body: """
      Chakotay once used the TPD as an excuse to not answer a question from Janeway.\n
      \n
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      """
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user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 20.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
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Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#10551
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        \n
        Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
        \n
        Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
        \n
        ##### **Rules**\n
        \n
        **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
        \n
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        \n
        **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
        \n
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        \n
        **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
        \n
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        \n
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        \n
        **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
        \n
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        \n
        **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
        \n
        Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
        \n
        #### **Episode Guides**\n
        \n
        The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
        \n
        - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
        - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
        - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
        - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
        """
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    +body: """
      Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
      \n
      Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
      \n
      Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
      \n
      Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
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      But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
      \n
      You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
      \n
      This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
      \n
      What are your thoughts?
      """
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      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
      +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
      +title: "daystrominstitute"
      +description: """
        [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
        \n
        Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
        \n
        Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
        \n
        ##### **Rules**\n
        \n
        **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
        \n
        All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
        \n
        **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
        \n
        This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
        \n
        **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
        \n
        Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
        \n
        **4. Assume good faith.**\n
        \n
        Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
        \n
        **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
        \n
        Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
        \n
        **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
        \n
        Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
        \n
        #### **Episode Guides**\n
        \n
        The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
        \n
        - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
        - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
        - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
        - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
        """
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    +slug: "Temporal-Prime-Directive-Get-Out-of-Jail-Free"
    +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
      \n
      Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
      \n
      Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
      \n
      Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
      \n
      But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
      \n
      You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
      \n
      This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
      \n
      What are your thoughts?
      """
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vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 20.0 MiB 0.36 ms
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          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
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          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
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        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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      Chakotay once used the TPD as an excuse to not answer a question from Janeway.\n
      \n
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Temporal-Prime-Directive-Get-Out-of-Jail-Free"
      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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    +body: """
      Chakotay once used the TPD as an excuse to not answer a question from Janeway.\n
      \n
      And she just accepted it.
      """
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        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Temporal-Prime-Directive-Get-Out-of-Jail-Free"
      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 20.0 MiB 0.09 ms
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      +title: "daystrominstitute"
      +description: """
        [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
        \n
        Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
        \n
        Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
        \n
        ##### **Rules**\n
        \n
        **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
        \n
        All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
        \n
        **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
        \n
        This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
        \n
        **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
        \n
        Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
        \n
        **4. Assume good faith.**\n
        \n
        Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
        \n
        **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
        \n
        Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
        \n
        **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
        \n
        Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
        \n
        #### **Episode Guides**\n
        \n
        The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
        \n
        - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
        - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
        - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
        - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
        """
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    +slug: "Temporal-Prime-Directive-Get-Out-of-Jail-Free"
    +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
      \n
      Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
      \n
      Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
      \n
      Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
      \n
      But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
      \n
      You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
      \n
      This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
      \n
      What are your thoughts?
      """
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705095251 {#6936
      date: 2024-01-12 22:34:11.0 +01:00
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    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryInlineComponent {#11419
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2929
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      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#11987 …}
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      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
      +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
      +title: "daystrominstitute"
      +description: """
        [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
        \n
        Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
        \n
        Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
        \n
        ##### **Rules**\n
        \n
        **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
        \n
        All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
        \n
        **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
        \n
        This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
        \n
        **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
        \n
        Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
        \n
        **4. Assume good faith.**\n
        \n
        Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
        \n
        **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
        \n
        Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
        \n
        **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
        \n
        Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
        \n
        #### **Episode Guides**\n
        \n
        The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
        \n
        - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
        - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
        - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
        - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
        """
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    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3162 …}
    +slug: "Temporal-Prime-Directive-Get-Out-of-Jail-Free"
    +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
      \n
      Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
      \n
      Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
      \n
      Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
      \n
      But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
      \n
      You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
      \n
      This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
      \n
      What are your thoughts?
      """
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     …2
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}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 20.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
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Component
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
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        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Temporal-Prime-Directive-Get-Out-of-Jail-Free"
      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
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          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
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          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
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          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Temporal-Prime-Directive-Get-Out-of-Jail-Free"
      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Temporal-Prime-Directive-Get-Out-of-Jail-Free"
      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Temporal-Prime-Directive-Get-Out-of-Jail-Free"
      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
    +image: null
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    +body: "The unspoken thing about the Prime Directive is that a Federation Captain’s most solemn duty is deciding when to ignore it, and the same goes for the Temporal Prime Directive."
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}
entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 20.0 MiB 80.46 ms
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Temporal-Prime-Directive-Get-Out-of-Jail-Free"
      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 20.0 MiB 0.13 ms
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[
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]
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[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#12058
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}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 20.0 MiB 0.09 ms
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[]
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}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 20.0 MiB 0.14 ms
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[
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]
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vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 20.0 MiB 0.43 ms
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        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Temporal-Prime-Directive-Get-Out-of-Jail-Free"
      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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Attributes
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Component
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        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Temporal-Prime-Directive-Get-Out-of-Jail-Free"
      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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      +body: "The unspoken thing about the Prime Directive is that a Federation Captain’s most solemn duty is deciding when to ignore it, and the same goes for the Temporal Prime Directive."
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    +body: "Sure, but what about random crewmen, like in my example? Are they expected to make such a decision?"
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entry_comments_nested App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentsNestedComponent 20.0 MiB 70.84 ms
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
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        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Temporal-Prime-Directive-Get-Out-of-Jail-Free"
      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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        +body: "The unspoken thing about the Prime Directive is that a Federation Captain’s most solemn duty is deciding when to ignore it, and the same goes for the Temporal Prime Directive."
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        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Temporal-Prime-Directive-Get-Out-of-Jail-Free"
      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
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      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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        +body: "The unspoken thing about the Prime Directive is that a Federation Captain’s most solemn duty is deciding when to ignore it, and the same goes for the Temporal Prime Directive."
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      +body: "Sure, but what about random crewmen, like in my example? Are they expected to make such a decision?"
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[]
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Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#12795
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vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 20.0 MiB 4.89 ms
Input props
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         …2
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        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Temporal-Prime-Directive-Get-Out-of-Jail-Free"
      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
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        +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
        +image: null
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        +body: "The unspoken thing about the Prime Directive is that a Federation Captain’s most solemn duty is deciding when to ignore it, and the same goes for the Temporal Prime Directive."
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        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Temporal-Prime-Directive-Get-Out-of-Jail-Free"
      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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        +body: "The unspoken thing about the Prime Directive is that a Federation Captain’s most solemn duty is deciding when to ignore it, and the same goes for the Temporal Prime Directive."
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  +formDest: "entry_comment"
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  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
}
boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 20.0 MiB 7.60 ms
Input props
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        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Temporal-Prime-Directive-Get-Out-of-Jail-Free"
      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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        +body: "The unspoken thing about the Prime Directive is that a Federation Captain’s most solemn duty is deciding when to ignore it, and the same goes for the Temporal Prime Directive."
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      +body: "Sure, but what about random crewmen, like in my example? Are they expected to make such a decision?"
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         …2
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        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3162 …}
      +slug: "Temporal-Prime-Directive-Get-Out-of-Jail-Free"
      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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      +cross: false
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       …2
    }
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
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    +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2914
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        +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
        +image: null
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        +root: null
        +body: "The unspoken thing about the Prime Directive is that a Federation Captain’s most solemn duty is deciding when to ignore it, and the same goes for the Temporal Prime Directive."
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      +body: "Sure, but what about random crewmen, like in my example? Are they expected to make such a decision?"
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    +body: "They should take it to their captain"
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  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
}
entry_comments_nested App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentsNestedComponent 20.0 MiB 5.50 ms
Input props
[
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Temporal-Prime-Directive-Get-Out-of-Jail-Free"
      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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        +body: "The unspoken thing about the Prime Directive is that a Federation Captain’s most solemn duty is deciding when to ignore it, and the same goes for the Temporal Prime Directive."
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        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +image: null
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      +slug: "Temporal-Prime-Directive-Get-Out-of-Jail-Free"
      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
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    +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2914
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        +image: null
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        +root: null
        +body: "The unspoken thing about the Prime Directive is that a Federation Captain’s most solemn duty is deciding when to ignore it, and the same goes for the Temporal Prime Directive."
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      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#1348}
      +body: "Sure, but what about random crewmen, like in my example? Are they expected to make such a decision?"
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    +body: "They should take it to their captain"
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  +nestedComments: []
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  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
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}
entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 20.0 MiB 32.05 ms
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Temporal-Prime-Directive-Get-Out-of-Jail-Free"
      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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      As far as I know, the directive mainly applies to officers who are sent back in time and/or given the opportunity to change established history. I don’t think it would prevent someone from making an arrest in their “proper” time.\n
      \n
      At most, it might limit their ability to interrogate the prisoner, if they can verify that the intruder is from the future and possesses knowledge that the contemporary officers can’t have.
      """
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         …2
      }
      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +image: null
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      +slug: "Temporal-Prime-Directive-Get-Out-of-Jail-Free"
      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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       …2
    }
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
    +image: null
    +parent: null
    +root: null
    +body: """
      As far as I know, the directive mainly applies to officers who are sent back in time and/or given the opportunity to change established history. I don’t think it would prevent someone from making an arrest in their “proper” time.\n
      \n
      At most, it might limit their ability to interrogate the prisoner, if they can verify that the intruder is from the future and possesses knowledge that the contemporary officers can’t have.
      """
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  +showMagazineName: false
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}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 20.0 MiB 0.20 ms
Input props
[
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    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2144 …}
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    +email: "ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
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    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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    +customCss: null
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date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 20.0 MiB 0.19 ms
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[
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#13348
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        [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
        \n
        Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
        \n
        Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
        \n
        ##### **Rules**\n
        \n
        **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
        \n
        All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
        \n
        **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
        \n
        This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
        \n
        **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
        \n
        Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
        \n
        **4. Assume good faith.**\n
        \n
        Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
        \n
        **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
        \n
        Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
        \n
        **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
        \n
        Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
        \n
        #### **Episode Guides**\n
        \n
        The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
        \n
        - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
        - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
        - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
        - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
        """
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      Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
      \n
      Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
      \n
      Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
      \n
      Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
      \n
      But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
      \n
      You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
      \n
      This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
      \n
      What are your thoughts?
      """
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        [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
        \n
        Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
        \n
        Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
        \n
        ##### **Rules**\n
        \n
        **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
        \n
        All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
        \n
        **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
        \n
        This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
        \n
        **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
        \n
        Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
        \n
        **4. Assume good faith.**\n
        \n
        Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
        \n
        **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
        \n
        Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
        \n
        **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
        \n
        Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
        \n
        #### **Episode Guides**\n
        \n
        The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
        \n
        - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
        - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
        - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
        - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
        """
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    +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
    +url: null
    +body: """
      Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
      \n
      Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
      \n
      Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
      \n
      Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
      \n
      But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
      \n
      You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
      \n
      This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
      \n
      What are your thoughts?
      """
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    +apId: "https://startrek.website/post/5601282"
    +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1722085168 {#6934
      date: 2024-07-27 14:59:28.0 +02:00
    }
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705095251 {#6936
      date: 2024-01-12 22:34:11.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 20.0 MiB 0.23 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#2037
    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2144 …}
    +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2075 …}
    +email: "ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
    +username: "@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: """
      [Mastodon](https://mstdn.ca/@ValueSubtracted)\n
      \n
      *Have you ever considered that the Prime Directive is not only not ethical, but also illogical, and perhaps morally indefensible?*
      """
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729527982 {#1383
      date: 2024-10-21 18:26:22.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
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    +hideAdult: true
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    +preferredLanguages: []
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    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
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    +addMentionsEntries: false
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    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2061 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2084 …}
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    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2083 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2085 …}
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  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#13511
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  +height: 40
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    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2144 …}
    +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2075 …}
    +email: "ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
    +username: "@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
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    +about: """
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    +lastActive: DateTime @1729527982 {#1383
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    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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    +customCss: null
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    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2061 …}
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    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2083 …}
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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      date: 2023-11-03 22:21:22.0 +01:00
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  +asLink: true
}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 20.0 MiB 0.36 ms
Input props
[
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    +user: App\Entity\User {#2037
      +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2144 …}
      +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2075 …}
      +email: "ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
      +username: "@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
      +homepage: "front"
      +about: """
        [Mastodon](https://mstdn.ca/@ValueSubtracted)\n
        \n
        *Have you ever considered that the Prime Directive is not only not ethical, but also illogical, and perhaps morally indefensible?*
        """
      +lastActive: DateTime @1729527982 {#1383
        date: 2024-10-21 18:26:22.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
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      +customCss: null
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      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2061 …}
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      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2289 …}
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      +privateKey: null
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        date: 2024-10-05 04:12:56.0 +02:00
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      +apDeletedAt: null
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        date: 2023-11-03 22:21:22.0 +01:00
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    }
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#1382
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2929
        +avatar: null
        +cover: null
        +email: "ApostleO@startrek.website"
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          date: 2024-10-11 00:07:55.0 +02:00
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        +markedForDeletionAt: null
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          date: 2024-06-23 23:25:05.0 +02:00
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          date: 2023-10-11 04:38:30.0 +02:00
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        +__isInitialized__: true
         …2
      }
      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
        +rules: null
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          date: 2024-10-18 00:41:21.0 +02:00
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        +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#278 …}
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          date: 2024-10-14 14:09:08.0 +02:00
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          date: 2023-10-17 10:08:00.0 +02:00
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      }
      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3162 …}
      +slug: "Temporal-Prime-Directive-Get-Out-of-Jail-Free"
      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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      As far as I know, the directive mainly applies to officers who are sent back in time and/or given the opportunity to change established history. I don’t think it would prevent someone from making an arrest in their “proper” time.\n
      \n
      At most, it might limit their ability to interrogate the prisoner, if they can verify that the intruder is from the future and possesses knowledge that the contemporary officers can’t have.
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Temporal-Prime-Directive-Get-Out-of-Jail-Free"
      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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      As far as I know, the directive mainly applies to officers who are sent back in time and/or given the opportunity to change established history. I don’t think it would prevent someone from making an arrest in their “proper” time.\n
      \n
      At most, it might limit their ability to interrogate the prisoner, if they can verify that the intruder is from the future and possesses knowledge that the contemporary officers can’t have.
      """
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boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 20.0 MiB 1.27 ms
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          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Temporal-Prime-Directive-Get-Out-of-Jail-Free"
      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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      As far as I know, the directive mainly applies to officers who are sent back in time and/or given the opportunity to change established history. I don’t think it would prevent someone from making an arrest in their “proper” time.\n
      \n
      At most, it might limit their ability to interrogate the prisoner, if they can verify that the intruder is from the future and possesses knowledge that the contemporary officers can’t have.
      """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Temporal-Prime-Directive-Get-Out-of-Jail-Free"
      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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      As far as I know, the directive mainly applies to officers who are sent back in time and/or given the opportunity to change established history. I don’t think it would prevent someone from making an arrest in their “proper” time.\n
      \n
      At most, it might limit their ability to interrogate the prisoner, if they can verify that the intruder is from the future and possesses knowledge that the contemporary officers can’t have.
      """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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      As far as I know, the directive mainly applies to officers who are sent back in time and/or given the opportunity to change established history. I don’t think it would prevent someone from making an arrest in their “proper” time.\n
      \n
      At most, it might limit their ability to interrogate the prisoner, if they can verify that the intruder is from the future and possesses knowledge that the contemporary officers can’t have.
      """
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        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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      As far as I know, the directive mainly applies to officers who are sent back in time and/or given the opportunity to change established history. I don’t think it would prevent someone from making an arrest in their “proper” time.\n
      \n
      At most, it might limit their ability to interrogate the prisoner, if they can verify that the intruder is from the future and possesses knowledge that the contemporary officers can’t have.
      """
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      +body: """
        I guess I assumed a sort of corollary.\n
        \n
        Starfleet personnel ends up back in time on a Starfleet vessel. We both serve the same organization. My duty is to protect the timeline I come from. Your duty seems, implicitly, to aid a fellow Starfleet officer in their mission (to protect the aforementioned timeline).\n
        \n
        It seems like Starfleet should have a dedicated Temporal Security crew on every starship and starbase for such an occasion. You find a supposed time traveler, you immediately call this team. They sequester the intruder and go through a careful interview to verify their claim as cleanly as possible, then render what aid is needed to secure the timeline and get them home (or, barring that possibility, get them somewhere isolated where they can’t contaminate the timeline). Then, maybe memory wipe the Temporal Security team (and possibly anyone else who interacted with the traveler). On the flipside, if you end up back in time, it’s expected you should immediately attempt to contact the local Temporal Security crew.
        """
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        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Temporal-Prime-Directive-Get-Out-of-Jail-Free"
      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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          [Mastodon](https://mstdn.ca/@ValueSubtracted)\n
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          *Have you ever considered that the Prime Directive is not only not ethical, but also illogical, and perhaps morally indefensible?*
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        As far as I know, the directive mainly applies to officers who are sent back in time and/or given the opportunity to change established history. I don’t think it would prevent someone from making an arrest in their “proper” time.\n
        \n
        At most, it might limit their ability to interrogate the prisoner, if they can verify that the intruder is from the future and possesses knowledge that the contemporary officers can’t have.
        """
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      I guess I assumed a sort of corollary.\n
      \n
      Starfleet personnel ends up back in time on a Starfleet vessel. We both serve the same organization. My duty is to protect the timeline I come from. Your duty seems, implicitly, to aid a fellow Starfleet officer in their mission (to protect the aforementioned timeline).\n
      \n
      It seems like Starfleet should have a dedicated Temporal Security crew on every starship and starbase for such an occasion. You find a supposed time traveler, you immediately call this team. They sequester the intruder and go through a careful interview to verify their claim as cleanly as possible, then render what aid is needed to secure the timeline and get them home (or, barring that possibility, get them somewhere isolated where they can’t contaminate the timeline). Then, maybe memory wipe the Temporal Security team (and possibly anyone else who interacted with the traveler). On the flipside, if you end up back in time, it’s expected you should immediately attempt to contact the local Temporal Security crew.
      """
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        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Temporal-Prime-Directive-Get-Out-of-Jail-Free"
      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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    }
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    +image: null
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          [Mastodon](https://mstdn.ca/@ValueSubtracted)\n
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          *Have you ever considered that the Prime Directive is not only not ethical, but also illogical, and perhaps morally indefensible?*
          """
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      +body: """
        As far as I know, the directive mainly applies to officers who are sent back in time and/or given the opportunity to change established history. I don’t think it would prevent someone from making an arrest in their “proper” time.\n
        \n
        At most, it might limit their ability to interrogate the prisoner, if they can verify that the intruder is from the future and possesses knowledge that the contemporary officers can’t have.
        """
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2553}
    +body: """
      I guess I assumed a sort of corollary.\n
      \n
      Starfleet personnel ends up back in time on a Starfleet vessel. We both serve the same organization. My duty is to protect the timeline I come from. Your duty seems, implicitly, to aid a fellow Starfleet officer in their mission (to protect the aforementioned timeline).\n
      \n
      It seems like Starfleet should have a dedicated Temporal Security crew on every starship and starbase for such an occasion. You find a supposed time traveler, you immediately call this team. They sequester the intruder and go through a careful interview to verify their claim as cleanly as possible, then render what aid is needed to secure the timeline and get them home (or, barring that possibility, get them somewhere isolated where they can’t contaminate the timeline). Then, maybe memory wipe the Temporal Security team (and possibly anyone else who interacted with the traveler). On the flipside, if you end up back in time, it’s expected you should immediately attempt to contact the local Temporal Security crew.
      """
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user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 20.0 MiB 0.17 ms
Input props
[
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Attributes
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Component
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date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 20.0 MiB 0.18 ms
Input props
[
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    date: 2024-01-13 06:38:26.0 +01:00
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#14042
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1705124306 {#2844
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}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 20.0 MiB 0.12 ms
Input props
[
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#14096
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}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 20.0 MiB 0.21 ms
Input props
[
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vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 20.0 MiB 0.64 ms
Input props
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        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Temporal-Prime-Directive-Get-Out-of-Jail-Free"
      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
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        +about: """
          [Mastodon](https://mstdn.ca/@ValueSubtracted)\n
          \n
          *Have you ever considered that the Prime Directive is not only not ethical, but also illogical, and perhaps morally indefensible?*
          """
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        As far as I know, the directive mainly applies to officers who are sent back in time and/or given the opportunity to change established history. I don’t think it would prevent someone from making an arrest in their “proper” time.\n
        \n
        At most, it might limit their ability to interrogate the prisoner, if they can verify that the intruder is from the future and possesses knowledge that the contemporary officers can’t have.
        """
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    +body: """
      I guess I assumed a sort of corollary.\n
      \n
      Starfleet personnel ends up back in time on a Starfleet vessel. We both serve the same organization. My duty is to protect the timeline I come from. Your duty seems, implicitly, to aid a fellow Starfleet officer in their mission (to protect the aforementioned timeline).\n
      \n
      It seems like Starfleet should have a dedicated Temporal Security crew on every starship and starbase for such an occasion. You find a supposed time traveler, you immediately call this team. They sequester the intruder and go through a careful interview to verify their claim as cleanly as possible, then render what aid is needed to secure the timeline and get them home (or, barring that possibility, get them somewhere isolated where they can’t contaminate the timeline). Then, maybe memory wipe the Temporal Security team (and possibly anyone else who interacted with the traveler). On the flipside, if you end up back in time, it’s expected you should immediately attempt to contact the local Temporal Security crew.
      """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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          [Mastodon](https://mstdn.ca/@ValueSubtracted)\n
          \n
          *Have you ever considered that the Prime Directive is not only not ethical, but also illogical, and perhaps morally indefensible?*
          """
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        As far as I know, the directive mainly applies to officers who are sent back in time and/or given the opportunity to change established history. I don’t think it would prevent someone from making an arrest in their “proper” time.\n
        \n
        At most, it might limit their ability to interrogate the prisoner, if they can verify that the intruder is from the future and possesses knowledge that the contemporary officers can’t have.
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2553}
    +body: """
      I guess I assumed a sort of corollary.\n
      \n
      Starfleet personnel ends up back in time on a Starfleet vessel. We both serve the same organization. My duty is to protect the timeline I come from. Your duty seems, implicitly, to aid a fellow Starfleet officer in their mission (to protect the aforementioned timeline).\n
      \n
      It seems like Starfleet should have a dedicated Temporal Security crew on every starship and starbase for such an occasion. You find a supposed time traveler, you immediately call this team. They sequester the intruder and go through a careful interview to verify their claim as cleanly as possible, then render what aid is needed to secure the timeline and get them home (or, barring that possibility, get them somewhere isolated where they can’t contaminate the timeline). Then, maybe memory wipe the Temporal Security team (and possibly anyone else who interacted with the traveler). On the flipside, if you end up back in time, it’s expected you should immediately attempt to contact the local Temporal Security crew.
      """
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  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
}
boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 20.0 MiB 1.17 ms
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        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Temporal-Prime-Directive-Get-Out-of-Jail-Free"
      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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          [Mastodon](https://mstdn.ca/@ValueSubtracted)\n
          \n
          *Have you ever considered that the Prime Directive is not only not ethical, but also illogical, and perhaps morally indefensible?*
          """
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        As far as I know, the directive mainly applies to officers who are sent back in time and/or given the opportunity to change established history. I don’t think it would prevent someone from making an arrest in their “proper” time.\n
        \n
        At most, it might limit their ability to interrogate the prisoner, if they can verify that the intruder is from the future and possesses knowledge that the contemporary officers can’t have.
        """
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    +body: """
      I guess I assumed a sort of corollary.\n
      \n
      Starfleet personnel ends up back in time on a Starfleet vessel. We both serve the same organization. My duty is to protect the timeline I come from. Your duty seems, implicitly, to aid a fellow Starfleet officer in their mission (to protect the aforementioned timeline).\n
      \n
      It seems like Starfleet should have a dedicated Temporal Security crew on every starship and starbase for such an occasion. You find a supposed time traveler, you immediately call this team. They sequester the intruder and go through a careful interview to verify their claim as cleanly as possible, then render what aid is needed to secure the timeline and get them home (or, barring that possibility, get them somewhere isolated where they can’t contaminate the timeline). Then, maybe memory wipe the Temporal Security team (and possibly anyone else who interacted with the traveler). On the flipside, if you end up back in time, it’s expected you should immediately attempt to contact the local Temporal Security crew.
      """
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        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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          [Mastodon](https://mstdn.ca/@ValueSubtracted)\n
          \n
          *Have you ever considered that the Prime Directive is not only not ethical, but also illogical, and perhaps morally indefensible?*
          """
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        As far as I know, the directive mainly applies to officers who are sent back in time and/or given the opportunity to change established history. I don’t think it would prevent someone from making an arrest in their “proper” time.\n
        \n
        At most, it might limit their ability to interrogate the prisoner, if they can verify that the intruder is from the future and possesses knowledge that the contemporary officers can’t have.
        """
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      I guess I assumed a sort of corollary.\n
      \n
      Starfleet personnel ends up back in time on a Starfleet vessel. We both serve the same organization. My duty is to protect the timeline I come from. Your duty seems, implicitly, to aid a fellow Starfleet officer in their mission (to protect the aforementioned timeline).\n
      \n
      It seems like Starfleet should have a dedicated Temporal Security crew on every starship and starbase for such an occasion. You find a supposed time traveler, you immediately call this team. They sequester the intruder and go through a careful interview to verify their claim as cleanly as possible, then render what aid is needed to secure the timeline and get them home (or, barring that possibility, get them somewhere isolated where they can’t contaminate the timeline). Then, maybe memory wipe the Temporal Security team (and possibly anyone else who interacted with the traveler). On the flipside, if you end up back in time, it’s expected you should immediately attempt to contact the local Temporal Security crew.
      """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Temporal-Prime-Directive-Get-Out-of-Jail-Free"
      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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          [Mastodon](https://mstdn.ca/@ValueSubtracted)\n
          \n
          *Have you ever considered that the Prime Directive is not only not ethical, but also illogical, and perhaps morally indefensible?*
          """
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        As far as I know, the directive mainly applies to officers who are sent back in time and/or given the opportunity to change established history. I don’t think it would prevent someone from making an arrest in their “proper” time.\n
        \n
        At most, it might limit their ability to interrogate the prisoner, if they can verify that the intruder is from the future and possesses knowledge that the contemporary officers can’t have.
        """
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    +body: """
      I guess I assumed a sort of corollary.\n
      \n
      Starfleet personnel ends up back in time on a Starfleet vessel. We both serve the same organization. My duty is to protect the timeline I come from. Your duty seems, implicitly, to aid a fellow Starfleet officer in their mission (to protect the aforementioned timeline).\n
      \n
      It seems like Starfleet should have a dedicated Temporal Security crew on every starship and starbase for such an occasion. You find a supposed time traveler, you immediately call this team. They sequester the intruder and go through a careful interview to verify their claim as cleanly as possible, then render what aid is needed to secure the timeline and get them home (or, barring that possibility, get them somewhere isolated where they can’t contaminate the timeline). Then, maybe memory wipe the Temporal Security team (and possibly anyone else who interacted with the traveler). On the flipside, if you end up back in time, it’s expected you should immediately attempt to contact the local Temporal Security crew.
      """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +title: "Temporal Prime Directive: Get Out of Jail Free?"
      +url: null
      +body: """
        Excuse me if this post isn’t up to the usual standards of Daystrom Institute, but as I’m looking for an in-universe discussion of this topic, this community felt the most appropriate.\n
        \n
        Does anyone else feel like the Temporal Prime Directive is a potential security risk? You’re a security officer, and you find an intruder on board. Before you can call it in, they implore you “Stop! Temporal Prime Directive! This is important!”\n
        \n
        Now you’ve paused, thinking any action could cause a temporal paradox, or damage to the future timeline.\n
        \n
        Hell, just that pause alone might be enough for them to draw a weapon on you and neutralize you, if they are hostile.\n
        \n
        But, assuming they don’t attack, suppose the intruder says “I can’t tell you what I’m doing or why, but just know it’s imperative, and I have to remain hidden. Please go about your business and ignore me.”\n
        \n
        You’re in a catch 22. If you leave them be, it could turn out they are an enemy spy or saboteur. If you report them, it could turn out they are telling the truth, and you cause a big temporal problem.\n
        \n
        This question is inspired by VOY S05E24, “Relativity”, where [Seven of Nine is sent back in time to Voyager (before she had joined the crew), and she gets caught and confronted by Janeway.](https://youtu.be/yu1TKxpBGMM?si=FgwuxNS7JZCZvFpC) Ultimately, Janeway doesn’t just take Seven at her word, and makes her explain what’s going on, but I’m not sure we should be taking cues on the proper application of the Temporal Prime Directive from Captain Kathryn Janeway.\n
        \n
        What are your thoughts?
        """
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          [Mastodon](https://mstdn.ca/@ValueSubtracted)\n
          \n
          *Have you ever considered that the Prime Directive is not only not ethical, but also illogical, and perhaps morally indefensible?*
          """
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        As far as I know, the directive mainly applies to officers who are sent back in time and/or given the opportunity to change established history. I don’t think it would prevent someone from making an arrest in their “proper” time.\n
        \n
        At most, it might limit their ability to interrogate the prisoner, if they can verify that the intruder is from the future and possesses knowledge that the contemporary officers can’t have.
        """
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    +body: """
      I guess I assumed a sort of corollary.\n
      \n
      Starfleet personnel ends up back in time on a Starfleet vessel. We both serve the same organization. My duty is to protect the timeline I come from. Your duty seems, implicitly, to aid a fellow Starfleet officer in their mission (to protect the aforementioned timeline).\n
      \n
      It seems like Starfleet should have a dedicated Temporal Security crew on every starship and starbase for such an occasion. You find a supposed time traveler, you immediately call this team. They sequester the intruder and go through a careful interview to verify their claim as cleanly as possible, then render what aid is needed to secure the timeline and get them home (or, barring that possibility, get them somewhere isolated where they can’t contaminate the timeline). Then, maybe memory wipe the Temporal Security team (and possibly anyone else who interacted with the traveler). On the flipside, if you end up back in time, it’s expected you should immediately attempt to contact the local Temporal Security crew.
      """
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entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 20.0 MiB 16.40 ms
Input props
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
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          \n
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          \n
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          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
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       …2
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]
Attributes
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Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent {#14600
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +image: null
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       …2
    }
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
    +image: null
    +parent: null
    +root: null
    +body: "The closest I can think of–at least as far as multi-generation epics–would be Wilbur Smith novels."
    +lang: "en"
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    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2569 …}
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  +level: 1
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  +dateAsUrl: false
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -authorizationChecker: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\AuthorizationChecker {#931 …}
}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 20.0 MiB 0.16 ms
Input props
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    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
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    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2177 …}
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#14645
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}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 20.0 MiB 0.15 ms
Input props
[
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#14700
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1705082944 {#2551
    date: 2024-01-12 19:09:04.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 20.0 MiB 0.10 ms
Input props
[
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    date: 2024-01-12 19:09:04.0 +01:00
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  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#14754
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    date: 2024-01-12 19:09:04.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
entry_inline App\Twig\Components\EntryInlineComponent 20.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
  "entry" => Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2162
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#9093 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
      +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
      +title: "daystrominstitute"
      +description: """
        [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
        \n
        Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
        \n
        Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
        \n
        ##### **Rules**\n
        \n
        **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
        \n
        All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
        \n
        **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
        \n
        This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
        \n
        **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
        \n
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        \n
        **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
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        \n
        **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
        \n
        Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
        \n
        #### **Episode Guides**\n
        \n
        The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
        \n
        - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
        - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
        - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
        - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
        """
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryInlineComponent {#14808
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#9093 …}
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        [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
        \n
        Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
        \n
        Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
        \n
        ##### **Rules**\n
        \n
        **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
        \n
        All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
        \n
        **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
        \n
        This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
        \n
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        \n
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        **4. Assume good faith.**\n
        \n
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        \n
        **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
        \n
        Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
        \n
        **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
        \n
        Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
        \n
        #### **Episode Guides**\n
        \n
        The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
        \n
        - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
        - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
        - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
        - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
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    +lastActive: DateTime @1729204881 {#9094
      date: 2024-10-18 00:41:21.0 +02:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9099 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9102 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9104 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9106 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9108 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9110 …}
    +children: []
    -id: 29245
    -titleTs: "'epic':2 'repetit':1"
    -bodyTs: "'assert':2 'bashir':4 'cardassian':14 'consid':29 'could':27 'epic':8,32 'finest':11 'form':12 'garak':1 'life':24 'literatur':15,25 'neverend':39 'real':23 'real-lif':22 'repetit':7,31 'sacrific':40 'vein':36 'wonder':18"
    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +ranking: 1705122360
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.world/post/10605560"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705035960 {#9091
      date: 2024-01-12 06:06:00.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 20.0 MiB 0.19 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#2173
    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2187 …}
    +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2175 …}
    +email: "charonn0@startrek.website"
    +username: "@charonn0@startrek.website"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: "*Seer* of the tapes! *Knower* of the episodes!"
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729510459 {#2147
      date: 2024-10-21 13:34:19.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2177 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2174 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2170 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2184 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2169 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1985 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1994 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2005 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1996 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1993 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1992 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2002 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2000 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2007 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1990 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2010 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2014 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2016 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2017 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1984 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1981 …}
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    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1980 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2375 …}
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    -id: 27898
    -password: "$2y$13$NrMXqNGHuVplBMxemd7Ry.Q.2wbwlzjsA.gPw0qMb7QReUb3zfDx."
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2362 …}
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    +apProfileId: "https://startrek.website/u/charonn0"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://startrek.website/u/charonn0"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://startrek.website/inbox"
    +apDomain: "startrek.website"
    +apPreferredUsername: "charonn0"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1729501826 {#2145
      date: 2024-10-21 11:10:26.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689383385 {#2150
      date: 2023-07-15 03:09:45.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#14863
  +width: 40
  +height: 40
  +user: App\Entity\User {#2173
    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2187 …}
    +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2175 …}
    +email: "charonn0@startrek.website"
    +username: "@charonn0@startrek.website"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: "*Seer* of the tapes! *Knower* of the episodes!"
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729510459 {#2147
      date: 2024-10-21 13:34:19.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2177 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2174 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2170 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2184 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2169 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1985 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1994 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2005 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1996 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1993 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1992 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2002 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2000 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2007 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1990 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2010 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2014 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2016 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2017 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1984 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1981 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1982 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1980 …}
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    -password: "$2y$13$NrMXqNGHuVplBMxemd7Ry.Q.2wbwlzjsA.gPw0qMb7QReUb3zfDx."
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2362 …}
    +apId: "charonn0@startrek.website"
    +apProfileId: "https://startrek.website/u/charonn0"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://startrek.website/u/charonn0"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
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    +apDiscoverable: true
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    +privateKey: null
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      date: 2024-10-21 11:10:26.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689383385 {#2150
      date: 2023-07-15 03:09:45.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +asLink: true
}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 20.0 MiB 0.43 ms
Input props
[
  "subject" => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2568
    +user: App\Entity\User {#2173
      +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2187 …}
      +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2175 …}
      +email: "charonn0@startrek.website"
      +username: "@charonn0@startrek.website"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
      +homepage: "front"
      +about: "*Seer* of the tapes! *Knower* of the episodes!"
      +lastActive: DateTime @1729510459 {#2147
        date: 2024-10-21 13:34:19.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +fields: null
      +oauthGithubId: null
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      +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
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      +addMentionsEntries: false
      +addMentionsPosts: true
      +isBanned: false
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      +isDeleted: false
      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2177 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2174 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2170 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2184 …}
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      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1985 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1994 …}
      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2005 …}
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      -password: "$2y$13$NrMXqNGHuVplBMxemd7Ry.Q.2wbwlzjsA.gPw0qMb7QReUb3zfDx."
      -totpSecret: null
      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2362 …}
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      +apPreferredUsername: "charonn0"
      +apDiscoverable: true
      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
      +privateKey: null
      +publicKey: null
      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1729501826 {#2145
        date: 2024-10-21 11:10:26.0 +02:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
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      +visibility: "visible             "
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689383385 {#2150
        date: 2023-07-15 03:09:45.0 +02:00
      }
    }
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2162
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#9093 …}
      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
        +rules: null
        +subscriptionsCount: 1
        +entryCount: 30
        +entryCommentCount: 161
        +postCount: 0
        +postCommentCount: 0
        +isAdult: false
        +customCss: null
        +lastActive: DateTime @1729204881 {#314
          date: 2024-10-18 00:41:21.0 +02:00
        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
        +tags: null
        +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#278 …}
        +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#274 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#263 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#221 …}
        +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#179 …}
        +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#241 …}
        +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#158 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#144 …}
        +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#122 …}
        +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#112 …}
        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#101 …}
        +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#88 …}
        -id: 60
        +apId: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +apProfileId: "https://startrek.website/c/daystrominstitute"
        +apPublicUrl: "https://startrek.website/c/daystrominstitute"
        +apFollowersUrl: "https://startrek.website/c/daystrominstitute/followers"
        +apInboxUrl: "https://startrek.website/inbox"
        +apDomain: "startrek.website"
        +apPreferredUsername: "daystrominstitute"
        +apDiscoverable: true
        +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
        +privateKey: null
        +publicKey: null
        +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728907748 {#315
          date: 2024-10-14 14:09:08.0 +02:00
        }
        +apDeletedAt: null
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697530080 {#309
          date: 2023-10-17 10:08:00.0 +02:00
        }
      }
      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3162 …}
      +slug: "Repetitive-Epics"
      +title: "Repetitive Epics"
      +url: null
      +body: "Garak asserts to Bashir that the Repetitive Epic is the finest form of Cardassian literature. I was wondering, is there any real-life literature that could be considered a “repetitive epic” in the same vein as “The Neverending Sacrifice?”"
      +type: "article"
      +lang: "en"
      +isOc: false
      +hasEmbed: false
      +commentCount: 10
      +favouriteCount: 15
      +score: 0
      +isAdult: false
      +sticky: false
      +lastActive: DateTime @1729204881 {#9094
        date: 2024-10-18 00:41:21.0 +02:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +adaAmount: 0
      +tags: null
      +mentions: null
      +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9099 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9102 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9104 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9106 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9108 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9110 …}
      +children: []
      -id: 29245
      -titleTs: "'epic':2 'repetit':1"
      -bodyTs: "'assert':2 'bashir':4 'cardassian':14 'consid':29 'could':27 'epic':8,32 'finest':11 'form':12 'garak':1 'life':24 'literatur':15,25 'neverend':39 'real':23 'real-lif':22 'repetit':7,31 'sacrific':40 'vein':36 'wonder':18"
      +cross: false
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      +ranking: 1705122360
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      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705035960 {#9091
        date: 2024-01-12 06:06:00.0 +01:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
    +image: null
    +parent: null
    +root: null
    +body: "The closest I can think of–at least as far as multi-generation epics–would be Wilbur Smith novels."
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
    +favouriteCount: 0
    +score: 0
    +lastActive: DateTime @1705082944 {#2552
      date: 2024-01-12 19:09:04.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +tags: null
    +mentions: [
      "@qantravon@lemmy.world"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2569 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2571 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2573 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2575 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2577 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2579 …}
    -id: 302703
    -bodyTs: "'closest':2 'epic':15 'far':10 'generat':14 'least':8 'multi':13 'multi-gener':12 'novel':20 'smith':19 'think':5 'wilbur':18 'would':16"
    +ranking: 0
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    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705082944 {#2551
      date: 2024-01-12 19:09:04.0 +01:00
    }
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent {#14933
  +subject: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2568
    +user: App\Entity\User {#2173
      +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2187 …}
      +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2175 …}
      +email: "charonn0@startrek.website"
      +username: "@charonn0@startrek.website"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
      +homepage: "front"
      +about: "*Seer* of the tapes! *Knower* of the episodes!"
      +lastActive: DateTime @1729510459 {#2147
        date: 2024-10-21 13:34:19.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +fields: null
      +oauthGithubId: null
      +oauthGoogleId: null
      +oauthFacebookId: null
      +oauthKeycloakId: null
      +hideAdult: true
      +showSubscribedUsers: true
      +showSubscribedMagazines: true
      +showSubscribedDomains: true
      +preferredLanguages: []
      +featuredMagazines: null
      +showProfileSubscriptions: true
      +showProfileFollowings: true
      +markNewComments: false
      +notifyOnNewEntry: false
      +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
      +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
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      +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
      +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
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      +addMentionsPosts: true
      +isBanned: false
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      +isDeleted: false
      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2177 …}
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        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
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          \n
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          \n
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          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
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    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
    +image: null
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    +body: "The closest I can think of–at least as far as multi-generation epics–would be Wilbur Smith novels."
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}
boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 20.0 MiB 0.68 ms
Input props
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        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
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          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
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          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
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]
Attributes
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Component
App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent {#14990
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          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
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          \n
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          \n
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          \n
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          \n
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          \n
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          \n
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          \n
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          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
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          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
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          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
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          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
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          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
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          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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    +body: "The closest I can think of–at least as far as multi-generation epics–would be Wilbur Smith novels."
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entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 20.0 MiB 225.64 ms
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Repetitive-Epics"
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      +body: "Garak asserts to Bashir that the Repetitive Epic is the finest form of Cardassian literature. I was wondering, is there any real-life literature that could be considered a “repetitive epic” in the same vein as “The Neverending Sacrifice?”"
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    +body: "I feel like repetitive epic is like a Cardassian version of the dubious literary idea of [The Hero’s Journey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero's_journey), adapted for the Cardassian heroic ideal of selfless sacrifice to the state. I think Garak would appreciate the “Rememberence of Earth’s Past” series (Three Body Problem) for the way that individual heroics take a backseat to the glory and survival of the state."
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        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Repetitive-Epics"
      +title: "Repetitive Epics"
      +url: null
      +body: "Garak asserts to Bashir that the Repetitive Epic is the finest form of Cardassian literature. I was wondering, is there any real-life literature that could be considered a “repetitive epic” in the same vein as “The Neverending Sacrifice?”"
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    +body: "I feel like repetitive epic is like a Cardassian version of the dubious literary idea of [The Hero’s Journey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero's_journey), adapted for the Cardassian heroic ideal of selfless sacrifice to the state. I think Garak would appreciate the “Rememberence of Earth’s Past” series (Three Body Problem) for the way that individual heroics take a backseat to the glory and survival of the state."
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      +description: """
        [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
        \n
        Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
        \n
        Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
        \n
        ##### **Rules**\n
        \n
        **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
        \n
        All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
        \n
        **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
        \n
        This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
        \n
        **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
        \n
        Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
        \n
        **4. Assume good faith.**\n
        \n
        Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
        \n
        **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
        \n
        Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
        \n
        **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
        \n
        Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
        \n
        #### **Episode Guides**\n
        \n
        The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
        \n
        - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
        - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
        - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
        - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
        """
      +rules: null
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      +entryCount: 30
      +entryCommentCount: 161
      +postCount: 0
      +postCommentCount: 0
      +isAdult: false
      +customCss: null
      +lastActive: DateTime @1729204881 {#314
        date: 2024-10-18 00:41:21.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +tags: null
      +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#278 …}
      +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#274 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#263 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#221 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#179 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#241 …}
      +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#158 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#144 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#122 …}
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      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#101 …}
      +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#88 …}
      -id: 60
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      +apInboxUrl: "https://startrek.website/inbox"
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      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
      +privateKey: null
      +publicKey: null
      +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728907748 {#315
        date: 2024-10-14 14:09:08.0 +02:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
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      +visibility: "visible             "
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        date: 2023-10-17 10:08:00.0 +02:00
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    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3162 …}
    +slug: "Repetitive-Epics"
    +title: "Repetitive Epics"
    +url: null
    +body: "Garak asserts to Bashir that the Repetitive Epic is the finest form of Cardassian literature. I was wondering, is there any real-life literature that could be considered a “repetitive epic” in the same vein as “The Neverending Sacrifice?”"
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     …2
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryInlineComponent {#15508
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2162
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#9093 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
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      +title: "daystrominstitute"
      +description: """
        [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
        \n
        Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
        \n
        Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
        \n
        ##### **Rules**\n
        \n
        **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
        \n
        All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
        \n
        **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
        \n
        This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
        \n
        **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
        \n
        Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
        \n
        **4. Assume good faith.**\n
        \n
        Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
        \n
        **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
        \n
        Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
        \n
        **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
        \n
        Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
        \n
        #### **Episode Guides**\n
        \n
        The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
        \n
        - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
        - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
        - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
        - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
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        date: 2023-10-17 10:08:00.0 +02:00
      }
    }
    +image: null
    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3162 …}
    +slug: "Repetitive-Epics"
    +title: "Repetitive Epics"
    +url: null
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    +commentCount: 10
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      date: 2024-10-18 00:41:21.0 +02:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +adaAmount: 0
    +tags: null
    +mentions: null
    +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9099 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9102 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9104 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9106 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9108 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9110 …}
    +children: []
    -id: 29245
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    +cross: false
    +upVotes: 0
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    +ranking: 1705122360
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://lemmy.world/post/10605560"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705035960 {#9091
      date: 2024-01-12 06:06:00.0 +01:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 20.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
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    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "ElderWendigo@sh.itjust.works"
    +username: "@ElderWendigo@sh.itjust.works"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1728689972 {#2550
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    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2597 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2599 …}
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    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2603 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2605 …}
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  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#15563
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vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 20.0 MiB 0.41 ms
Input props
[
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
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          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
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          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
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          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
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Attributes
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        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
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          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
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          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
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          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
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          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
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boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 20.0 MiB 0.66 ms
Input props
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          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
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          \n
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          \n
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          \n
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          \n
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          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
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          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
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          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
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          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
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          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
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          \n
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          \n
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          \n
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          \n
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          \n
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          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
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          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
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          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
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          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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    +body: "I feel like repetitive epic is like a Cardassian version of the dubious literary idea of [The Hero’s Journey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero's_journey), adapted for the Cardassian heroic ideal of selfless sacrifice to the state. I think Garak would appreciate the “Rememberence of Earth’s Past” series (Three Body Problem) for the way that individual heroics take a backseat to the glory and survival of the state."
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entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 20.0 MiB 13.62 ms
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        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
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          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Repetitive-Epics"
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      +url: null
      +body: "Garak asserts to Bashir that the Repetitive Epic is the finest form of Cardassian literature. I was wondering, is there any real-life literature that could be considered a “repetitive epic” in the same vein as “The Neverending Sacrifice?”"
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    +body: "The First Fifteen Lives of Harry August. It tells the story of a man who lives his life over and over again. Very interesting story and while not exactly like Garak’s repetitive epic its definitely in the same vein."
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent {#16005
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        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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    }
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
    +image: null
    +parent: null
    +root: null
    +body: "The First Fifteen Lives of Harry August. It tells the story of a man who lives his life over and over again. Very interesting story and while not exactly like Garak’s repetitive epic its definitely in the same vein."
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
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    +ip: null
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    +mentions: [
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    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2658 …}
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  +level: 1
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user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 20.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
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    +username: "@teft@lemmy.world"
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    +customCss: null
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    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2672 …}
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
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    +markedForDeletionAt: null
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date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 20.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1705065562 {#2653
    date: 2024-01-12 14:19:22.0 +01:00
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#16105
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1705065562 {#2653
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  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 20.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#16159
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    date: 2024-01-12 14:19:22.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1721682971 {#2652
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}
entry_inline App\Twig\Components\EntryInlineComponent 20.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
  "entry" => Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2162
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#9093 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
      +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
      +title: "daystrominstitute"
      +description: """
        [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
        \n
        Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
        \n
        Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
        \n
        ##### **Rules**\n
        \n
        **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
        \n
        All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
        \n
        **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
        \n
        This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
        \n
        **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
        \n
        Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
        \n
        **4. Assume good faith.**\n
        \n
        Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
        \n
        **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
        \n
        Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
        \n
        **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
        \n
        Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
        \n
        #### **Episode Guides**\n
        \n
        The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
        \n
        - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
        - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
        - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
        - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
        """
      +rules: null
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        date: 2024-10-14 14:09:08.0 +02:00
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        date: 2023-10-17 10:08:00.0 +02:00
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    +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3162 …}
    +slug: "Repetitive-Epics"
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryInlineComponent {#16213
  +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2162
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#9093 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
      +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
      +title: "daystrominstitute"
      +description: """
        [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
        \n
        Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
        \n
        Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
        \n
        ##### **Rules**\n
        \n
        **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
        \n
        All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
        \n
        **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
        \n
        This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
        \n
        **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
        \n
        Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
        \n
        **4. Assume good faith.**\n
        \n
        Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
        \n
        **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
        \n
        Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
        \n
        **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
        \n
        Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
        \n
        #### **Episode Guides**\n
        \n
        The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
        \n
        - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
        - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
        - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
        - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
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    +__isInitialized__: true
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}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 20.0 MiB 2.07 ms
Input props
[
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    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2671 …}
    +cover: null
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    +username: "@teft@lemmy.world"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
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  "width" => 40
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#16268
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    +cover: null
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}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 20.0 MiB 0.41 ms
Input props
[
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        date: 2023-07-10 22:27:28.0 +02:00
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        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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          date: 2024-10-14 14:09:08.0 +02:00
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      }
      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3162 …}
      +slug: "Repetitive-Epics"
      +title: "Repetitive Epics"
      +url: null
      +body: "Garak asserts to Bashir that the Repetitive Epic is the finest form of Cardassian literature. I was wondering, is there any real-life literature that could be considered a “repetitive epic” in the same vein as “The Neverending Sacrifice?”"
      +type: "article"
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      +children: []
      -id: 29245
      -titleTs: "'epic':2 'repetit':1"
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      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
    +image: null
    +parent: null
    +root: null
    +body: "The First Fifteen Lives of Harry August. It tells the story of a man who lives his life over and over again. Very interesting story and while not exactly like Garak’s repetitive epic its definitely in the same vein."
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      "@qantravon@lemmy.world"
      "@qantravon@lemmy.world"
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    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2658 …}
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          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
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          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
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boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 20.0 MiB 0.72 ms
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          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
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          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
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          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
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          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
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Attributes
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          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
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          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
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          \n
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          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
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          \n
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          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
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Input props
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
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          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
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          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
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          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
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          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
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App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentsNestedComponent {#16642
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        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
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          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +image: null
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entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 20.0 MiB 132.01 ms
Input props
[
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        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +body: "Garak asserts to Bashir that the Repetitive Epic is the finest form of Cardassian literature. I was wondering, is there any real-life literature that could be considered a “repetitive epic” in the same vein as “The Neverending Sacrifice?”"
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      I think you might be able to draw a parallel with long-running serials like comic books, or even Star Trek itself. They tend to revisit old themes and revolve around a certain status quo.\n
      \n
      They tend not to involve multigenerational obedience to an authoritarian regime, though…
      """
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[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent {#16712
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        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +body: "Garak asserts to Bashir that the Repetitive Epic is the finest form of Cardassian literature. I was wondering, is there any real-life literature that could be considered a “repetitive epic” in the same vein as “The Neverending Sacrifice?”"
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      I think you might be able to draw a parallel with long-running serials like comic books, or even Star Trek itself. They tend to revisit old themes and revolve around a certain status quo.\n
      \n
      They tend not to involve multigenerational obedience to an authoritarian regime, though…
      """
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user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 20.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#16757
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    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2076 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2083 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2085 …}
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    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2093 …}
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      date: 2023-11-03 22:21:22.0 +01:00
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}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 20.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#16812
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1705044058 {#2727
    date: 2024-01-12 08:20:58.0 +01:00
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}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 20.0 MiB 0.09 ms
Input props
[
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    date: 2024-01-12 08:20:58.0 +01:00
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  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#16866
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    date: 2024-01-12 08:20:58.0 +01:00
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  +editedAt: null
}
entry_inline App\Twig\Components\EntryInlineComponent 20.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
  "entry" => Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2162
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#9093 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
      +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
      +title: "daystrominstitute"
      +description: """
        [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
        \n
        Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
        \n
        Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
        \n
        ##### **Rules**\n
        \n
        **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
        \n
        All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
        \n
        **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
        \n
        This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
        \n
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        \n
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        \n
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        \n
        **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
        \n
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        \n
        **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
        \n
        Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
        \n
        #### **Episode Guides**\n
        \n
        The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
        \n
        - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
        - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
        - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
        - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
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    +image: null
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Attributes
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Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryInlineComponent {#16920
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        [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
        \n
        Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
        \n
        Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
        \n
        ##### **Rules**\n
        \n
        **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
        \n
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        \n
        **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
        \n
        This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
        \n
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        \n
        Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
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        **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
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        \n
        **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
        \n
        Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
        \n
        #### **Episode Guides**\n
        \n
        The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
        \n
        - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
        - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
        - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
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user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 20.0 MiB 0.22 ms
Input props
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Component
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          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
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          \n
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          \n
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          \n
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          \n
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          \n
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          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
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      \n
      They tend not to involve multigenerational obedience to an authoritarian regime, though…
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Attributes
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Component
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
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          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
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          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
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          \n
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          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
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          \n
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          #### **Episode Guides**\n
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          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
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      I think you might be able to draw a parallel with long-running serials like comic books, or even Star Trek itself. They tend to revisit old themes and revolve around a certain status quo.\n
      \n
      They tend not to involve multigenerational obedience to an authoritarian regime, though…
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App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent {#17106
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
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          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
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          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
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          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
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          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      I think you might be able to draw a parallel with long-running serials like comic books, or even Star Trek itself. They tend to revisit old themes and revolve around a certain status quo.\n
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      They tend not to involve multigenerational obedience to an authoritarian regime, though…
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Repetitive-Epics"
      +title: "Repetitive Epics"
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      +body: "Garak asserts to Bashir that the Repetitive Epic is the finest form of Cardassian literature. I was wondering, is there any real-life literature that could be considered a “repetitive epic” in the same vein as “The Neverending Sacrifice?”"
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      I think you might be able to draw a parallel with long-running serials like comic books, or even Star Trek itself. They tend to revisit old themes and revolve around a certain status quo.\n
      \n
      They tend not to involve multigenerational obedience to an authoritarian regime, though…
      """
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}
entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 20.0 MiB 98.64 ms
Input props
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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        I think you might be able to draw a parallel with long-running serials like comic books, or even Star Trek itself. They tend to revisit old themes and revolve around a certain status quo.\n
        \n
        They tend not to involve multigenerational obedience to an authoritarian regime, though…
        """
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    +body: "Isn’t there a version of Superman where he lands in Siberia instead of Saskatchewan and ends up a good Soviet citizen?"
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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          date: 2023-10-17 10:08:00.0 +02:00
        }
      }
      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3162 …}
      +slug: "Repetitive-Epics"
      +title: "Repetitive Epics"
      +url: null
      +body: "Garak asserts to Bashir that the Repetitive Epic is the finest form of Cardassian literature. I was wondering, is there any real-life literature that could be considered a “repetitive epic” in the same vein as “The Neverending Sacrifice?”"
      +type: "article"
      +lang: "en"
      +isOc: false
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      +lastActive: DateTime @1729204881 {#9094
        date: 2024-10-18 00:41:21.0 +02:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +adaAmount: 0
      +tags: null
      +mentions: null
      +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9099 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9102 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9104 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9106 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9108 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9110 …}
      +children: []
      -id: 29245
      -titleTs: "'epic':2 'repetit':1"
      -bodyTs: "'assert':2 'bashir':4 'cardassian':14 'consid':29 'could':27 'epic':8,32 'finest':11 'form':12 'garak':1 'life':24 'literatur':15,25 'neverend':39 'real':23 'real-lif':22 'repetit':7,31 'sacrific':40 'vein':36 'wonder':18"
      +cross: false
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705035960 {#9091
        date: 2024-01-12 06:06:00.0 +01:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
    +image: null
    +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2731
      +user: App\Entity\User {#2037
        +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2144 …}
        +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2075 …}
        +email: "ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
        +username: "@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
        +roles: []
        +followersCount: 0
        +homepage: "front"
        +about: """
          [Mastodon](https://mstdn.ca/@ValueSubtracted)\n
          \n
          *Have you ever considered that the Prime Directive is not only not ethical, but also illogical, and perhaps morally indefensible?*
          """
        +lastActive: DateTime @1729527982 {#1383
          date: 2024-10-21 18:26:22.0 +02:00
        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
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        +customCss: null
        +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
        +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2061 …}
        +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2084 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2076 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2083 …}
        +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2085 …}
        +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2062 …}
        +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2077 …}
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        +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2087 …}
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        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2344 …}
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        +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2331 …}
        -id: 70867
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        -totpSecret: null
        -totpBackupCodes: []
        -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2289 …}
        +apId: "ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
        +apProfileId: "https://startrek.website/u/ValueSubtracted"
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        +apFollowersUrl: null
        +apInboxUrl: "https://startrek.website/inbox"
        +apDomain: "startrek.website"
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        +apDiscoverable: true
        +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
        +privateKey: null
        +publicKey: null
        +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728094376 {#2022
          date: 2024-10-05 04:12:56.0 +02:00
        }
        +apDeletedAt: null
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        +visibility: "visible             "
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699046482 {#2018
          date: 2023-11-03 22:21:22.0 +01:00
        }
      }
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2162 …2}
      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
      +image: null
      +parent: null
      +root: null
      +body: """
        I think you might be able to draw a parallel with long-running serials like comic books, or even Star Trek itself. They tend to revisit old themes and revolve around a certain status quo.\n
        \n
        They tend not to involve multigenerational obedience to an authoritarian regime, though…
        """
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 9
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1729204881 {#2726
        date: 2024-10-18 00:41:21.0 +02:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@qantravon@lemmy.world"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2732 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2734 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2736 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2738 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2740 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2742 …}
      -id: 301293
      -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'around':32 'authoritarian':46 'book':18 'certain':34 'comic':17 'draw':8 'even':20 'involv':41 'like':16 'long':13 'long-run':12 'might':4 'multigener':42 'obedi':43 'old':28 'parallel':10 'quo':36 'regim':47 'revisit':27 'revolv':31 'run':14 'serial':15 'star':21 'status':35 'tend':25,38 'theme':29 'think':2 'though':48 'trek':22"
      +ranking: 0
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      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705044058 {#2727
        date: 2024-01-12 08:20:58.0 +01:00
      }
    }
    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2731}
    +body: "Isn’t there a version of Superman where he lands in Siberia instead of Saskatchewan and ends up a good Soviet citizen?"
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
    +favouriteCount: 1
    +score: 0
    +lastActive: DateTime @1705518706 {#2832
      date: 2024-01-17 20:11:46.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
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    +mentions: [
      "@qantravon@lemmy.world"
      "@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2828 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2824 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2822 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2837 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2839 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2841 …}
    -id: 317364
    -bodyTs: "'citizen':22 'end':17 'good':20 'instead':13 'isn':1 'land':10 'saskatchewan':15 'siberia':12 'soviet':21 'superman':7 'version':5"
    +ranking: 0
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://startrek.website/comment/5827803"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705518706 {#2835
      date: 2024-01-17 20:11:46.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  +showMagazineName: false
  +showEntryTitle: false
  +showNested: true
  +level: 2
  +canSeeTrash: false
  +dateAsUrl: false
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -authorizationChecker: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\AuthorizationChecker {#931 …}
}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 20.0 MiB 0.15 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#2204
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "inappropriatecontent@startrek.website"
    +username: "@inappropriatecontent@startrek.website"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727173925 {#2196
      date: 2024-09-24 12:32:05.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
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    +oauthGoogleId: null
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    +hideAdult: true
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    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
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    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
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    +markNewComments: false
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    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
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    +addMentionsEntries: false
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    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2200 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2270 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2257 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2267 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2271 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2272 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2253 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2262 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2264 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2242 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2240 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2233 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2234 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2237 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2258 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2260 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2254 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2246 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2248 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2247 …}
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    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2284 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2286 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2188 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
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    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2154 …}
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    +apInboxUrl: "https://startrek.website/inbox"
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    +apDiscoverable: true
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    +privateKey: null
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      date: 2024-01-25 07:26:50.0 +01:00
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    +apDeletedAt: null
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      date: 2024-01-25 07:26:49.0 +01:00
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  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#17451
  +user: App\Entity\User {#2204
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "inappropriatecontent@startrek.website"
    +username: "@inappropriatecontent@startrek.website"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
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      date: 2024-09-24 12:32:05.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
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    +hideAdult: true
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    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
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    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
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    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2200 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2270 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2257 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2267 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2271 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2272 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2253 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2262 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2264 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2242 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2240 …}
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    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2237 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2258 …}
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    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2254 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2246 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2248 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2247 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2256 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2284 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2286 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2188 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
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    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2154 …}
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    +apInboxUrl: "https://startrek.website/inbox"
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    +privateKey: null
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      date: 2024-01-25 07:26:50.0 +01:00
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      date: 2024-01-25 07:26:49.0 +01:00
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  +showAvatar: false
}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 20.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1705518706 {#2835
    date: 2024-01-17 20:11:46.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#17506
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1705518706 {#2835
    date: 2024-01-17 20:11:46.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 20.0 MiB 0.12 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1705518706 {#2835
    date: 2024-01-17 20:11:46.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#17560
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705518706 {#2835
    date: 2024-01-17 20:11:46.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 20.0 MiB 0.26 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#2204
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "inappropriatecontent@startrek.website"
    +username: "@inappropriatecontent@startrek.website"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727173925 {#2196
      date: 2024-09-24 12:32:05.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2200 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2270 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2257 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2267 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2271 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2272 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2253 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2262 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2264 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2242 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2240 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2233 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2234 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2237 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2258 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2260 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2254 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2246 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2248 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2247 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2256 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2284 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2286 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2188 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2034 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2156 …}
    -id: 86617
    -password: "$2y$13$CSAO6oySCshyl5d.HP7xouyt4qr93jmDPq//o49B9M/TanFS836L2"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2154 …}
    +apId: "inappropriatecontent@startrek.website"
    +apProfileId: "https://startrek.website/u/inappropriatecontent"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://startrek.website/u/inappropriatecontent"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://startrek.website/inbox"
    +apDomain: "startrek.website"
    +apPreferredUsername: "inappropriatecontent"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1706164010 {#2199
      date: 2024-01-25 07:26:50.0 +01:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1706164009 {#2194
      date: 2024-01-25 07:26:49.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#17614
  +width: 40
  +height: 40
  +user: App\Entity\User {#2204
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "inappropriatecontent@startrek.website"
    +username: "@inappropriatecontent@startrek.website"
    +roles: []
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vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 20.0 MiB 0.54 ms
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +body: "Garak asserts to Bashir that the Repetitive Epic is the finest form of Cardassian literature. I was wondering, is there any real-life literature that could be considered a “repetitive epic” in the same vein as “The Neverending Sacrifice?”"
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          [Mastodon](https://mstdn.ca/@ValueSubtracted)\n
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          *Have you ever considered that the Prime Directive is not only not ethical, but also illogical, and perhaps morally indefensible?*
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        I think you might be able to draw a parallel with long-running serials like comic books, or even Star Trek itself. They tend to revisit old themes and revolve around a certain status quo.\n
        \n
        They tend not to involve multigenerational obedience to an authoritarian regime, though…
        """
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    +body: "Isn’t there a version of Superman where he lands in Siberia instead of Saskatchewan and ends up a good Soviet citizen?"
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Attributes
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Component
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          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
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          \n
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          \n
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          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
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          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
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          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Repetitive-Epics"
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    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
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          [Mastodon](https://mstdn.ca/@ValueSubtracted)\n
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      +body: """
        I think you might be able to draw a parallel with long-running serials like comic books, or even Star Trek itself. They tend to revisit old themes and revolve around a certain status quo.\n
        \n
        They tend not to involve multigenerational obedience to an authoritarian regime, though…
        """
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    +body: "Isn’t there a version of Superman where he lands in Siberia instead of Saskatchewan and ends up a good Soviet citizen?"
    +lang: "en"
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  +formDest: "entry_comment"
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  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
}
boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 20.0 MiB 0.73 ms
Input props
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
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        They tend not to involve multigenerational obedience to an authoritarian regime, though…
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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        I think you might be able to draw a parallel with long-running serials like comic books, or even Star Trek itself. They tend to revisit old themes and revolve around a certain status quo.\n
        \n
        They tend not to involve multigenerational obedience to an authoritarian regime, though…
        """
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entry_comments_nested App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentsNestedComponent 20.0 MiB 54.35 ms
Input props
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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       …2
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    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
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          [Mastodon](https://mstdn.ca/@ValueSubtracted)\n
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          *Have you ever considered that the Prime Directive is not only not ethical, but also illogical, and perhaps morally indefensible?*
          """
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        I think you might be able to draw a parallel with long-running serials like comic books, or even Star Trek itself. They tend to revisit old themes and revolve around a certain status quo.\n
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        They tend not to involve multigenerational obedience to an authoritarian regime, though…
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Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentsNestedComponent {#17980
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        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
        +rules: null
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          date: 2023-10-17 10:08:00.0 +02:00
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      }
      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3162 …}
      +slug: "Repetitive-Epics"
      +title: "Repetitive Epics"
      +url: null
      +body: "Garak asserts to Bashir that the Repetitive Epic is the finest form of Cardassian literature. I was wondering, is there any real-life literature that could be considered a “repetitive epic” in the same vein as “The Neverending Sacrifice?”"
      +type: "article"
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      -id: 29245
      -titleTs: "'epic':2 'repetit':1"
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      +cross: false
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        date: 2024-01-12 06:06:00.0 +01:00
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      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
    +image: null
    +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2731
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          [Mastodon](https://mstdn.ca/@ValueSubtracted)\n
          \n
          *Have you ever considered that the Prime Directive is not only not ethical, but also illogical, and perhaps morally indefensible?*
          """
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      +body: """
        I think you might be able to draw a parallel with long-running serials like comic books, or even Star Trek itself. They tend to revisit old themes and revolve around a certain status quo.\n
        \n
        They tend not to involve multigenerational obedience to an authoritarian regime, though…
        """
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2731}
    +body: "Isn’t there a version of Superman where he lands in Siberia instead of Saskatchewan and ends up a good Soviet citizen?"
    +lang: "en"
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    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2828 …}
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  +nestedComments: []
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  -entryCommentRepository: App\Repository\EntryCommentRepository {#556 …}
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -security: Symfony\Bundle\SecurityBundle\Security {#1101 …}
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
}
entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 20.0 MiB 35.63 ms
Input props
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        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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          I think you might be able to draw a parallel with long-running serials like comic books, or even Star Trek itself. They tend to revisit old themes and revolve around a certain status quo.\n
          \n
          They tend not to involve multigenerational obedience to an authoritarian regime, though…
          """
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      +body: "Isn’t there a version of Superman where he lands in Siberia instead of Saskatchewan and ends up a good Soviet citizen?"
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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        +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
        +privateKey: null
        +publicKey: null
        +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728907748 {#315
          date: 2024-10-14 14:09:08.0 +02:00
        }
        +apDeletedAt: null
        +apTimeoutAt: null
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697530080 {#309
          date: 2023-10-17 10:08:00.0 +02:00
        }
      }
      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3162 …}
      +slug: "Repetitive-Epics"
      +title: "Repetitive Epics"
      +url: null
      +body: "Garak asserts to Bashir that the Repetitive Epic is the finest form of Cardassian literature. I was wondering, is there any real-life literature that could be considered a “repetitive epic” in the same vein as “The Neverending Sacrifice?”"
      +type: "article"
      +lang: "en"
      +isOc: false
      +hasEmbed: false
      +commentCount: 10
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      +score: 0
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      +sticky: false
      +lastActive: DateTime @1729204881 {#9094
        date: 2024-10-18 00:41:21.0 +02:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +adaAmount: 0
      +tags: null
      +mentions: null
      +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9099 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9102 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9104 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9106 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9108 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9110 …}
      +children: []
      -id: 29245
      -titleTs: "'epic':2 'repetit':1"
      -bodyTs: "'assert':2 'bashir':4 'cardassian':14 'consid':29 'could':27 'epic':8,32 'finest':11 'form':12 'garak':1 'life':24 'literatur':15,25 'neverend':39 'real':23 'real-lif':22 'repetit':7,31 'sacrific':40 'vein':36 'wonder':18"
      +cross: false
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      +apId: "https://lemmy.world/post/10605560"
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705035960 {#9091
        date: 2024-01-12 06:06:00.0 +01:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
    +image: null
    +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2831
      +user: App\Entity\User {#2204
        +avatar: null
        +cover: null
        +email: "inappropriatecontent@startrek.website"
        +username: "@inappropriatecontent@startrek.website"
        +roles: []
        +followersCount: 0
        +homepage: "front"
        +about: null
        +lastActive: DateTime @1727173925 {#2196
          date: 2024-09-24 12:32:05.0 +02:00
        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
        +fields: null
        +oauthGithubId: null
        +oauthGoogleId: null
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        +oauthKeycloakId: null
        +hideAdult: true
        +showSubscribedUsers: true
        +showSubscribedMagazines: true
        +showSubscribedDomains: true
        +preferredLanguages: []
        +featuredMagazines: null
        +showProfileSubscriptions: false
        +showProfileFollowings: true
        +markNewComments: false
        +notifyOnNewEntry: false
        +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
        +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
        +notifyOnNewPost: false
        +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
        +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
        +addMentionsEntries: false
        +addMentionsPosts: true
        +isBanned: false
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        +isDeleted: false
        +isBot: false
        +spamProtection: true
        +customCss: null
        +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
        +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2200 …}
        +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2270 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2257 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2267 …}
        +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2271 …}
        +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2272 …}
        +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2253 …}
        +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2262 …}
        +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2264 …}
        +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2242 …}
        +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2240 …}
        +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2233 …}
        +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2234 …}
        +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2237 …}
        +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2258 …}
        +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2260 …}
        +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2254 …}
        +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2246 …}
        +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2248 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2247 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2256 …}
        +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2284 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2286 …}
        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2188 …}
        +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2034 …}
        +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2156 …}
        -id: 86617
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        -totpSecret: null
        -totpBackupCodes: []
        -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2154 …}
        +apId: "inappropriatecontent@startrek.website"
        +apProfileId: "https://startrek.website/u/inappropriatecontent"
        +apPublicUrl: "https://startrek.website/u/inappropriatecontent"
        +apFollowersUrl: null
        +apInboxUrl: "https://startrek.website/inbox"
        +apDomain: "startrek.website"
        +apPreferredUsername: "inappropriatecontent"
        +apDiscoverable: true
        +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
        +privateKey: null
        +publicKey: null
        +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1706164010 {#2199
          date: 2024-01-25 07:26:50.0 +01:00
        }
        +apDeletedAt: null
        +apTimeoutAt: null
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1706164009 {#2194
          date: 2024-01-25 07:26:49.0 +01:00
        }
      }
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2162 …2}
      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
      +image: null
      +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2731
        +user: App\Entity\User {#2037}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2162 …2}
        +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
        +image: null
        +parent: null
        +root: null
        +body: """
          I think you might be able to draw a parallel with long-running serials like comic books, or even Star Trek itself. They tend to revisit old themes and revolve around a certain status quo.\n
          \n
          They tend not to involve multigenerational obedience to an authoritarian regime, though…
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
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        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1729204881 {#2726
          date: 2024-10-18 00:41:21.0 +02:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@qantravon@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2732 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2734 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2736 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2738 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2740 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2742 …}
        -id: 301293
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'around':32 'authoritarian':46 'book':18 'certain':34 'comic':17 'draw':8 'even':20 'involv':41 'like':16 'long':13 'long-run':12 'might':4 'multigener':42 'obedi':43 'old':28 'parallel':10 'quo':36 'regim':47 'revisit':27 'revolv':31 'run':14 'serial':15 'star':21 'status':35 'tend':25,38 'theme':29 'think':2 'though':48 'trek':22"
        +ranking: 0
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705044058 {#2727
          date: 2024-01-12 08:20:58.0 +01:00
        }
      }
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2731}
      +body: "Isn’t there a version of Superman where he lands in Siberia instead of Saskatchewan and ends up a good Soviet citizen?"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 1
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1705518706 {#2832
        date: 2024-01-17 20:11:46.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@qantravon@lemmy.world"
        "@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2828 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2824 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2822 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2837 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2839 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2841 …}
      -id: 317364
      -bodyTs: "'citizen':22 'end':17 'good':20 'instead':13 'isn':1 'land':10 'saskatchewan':15 'siberia':12 'soviet':21 'superman':7 'version':5"
      +ranking: 0
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      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705518706 {#2835
        date: 2024-01-17 20:11:46.0 +01:00
      }
    }
    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2731}
    +body: "[en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman:_Red_Son](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman:_Red_Son)"
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
    +favouriteCount: 0
    +score: 0
    +lastActive: DateTime @1705518874 {#2863
      date: 2024-01-17 20:14:34.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +tags: null
    +mentions: [
      "@qantravon@lemmy.world"
      "@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
      "@inappropriatecontent@startrek.website"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2942 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2943 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2930 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2932 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2934 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2936 …}
    -id: 317369
    -bodyTs: "'/wiki/superman:_red_son](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/superman:_red_son)':3 'en.wikipedia.org':2 'en.wikipedia.org/wiki/superman:_red_son](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/superman:_red_son)':1"
    +ranking: 0
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    +editedAt: null
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      date: 2024-01-17 20:14:34.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  +showMagazineName: false
  +showEntryTitle: false
  +showNested: true
  +level: 3
  +canSeeTrash: false
  +dateAsUrl: false
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -authorizationChecker: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\AuthorizationChecker {#931 …}
}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 20.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#2037
    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2144 …}
    +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2075 …}
    +email: "ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
    +username: "@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: """
      [Mastodon](https://mstdn.ca/@ValueSubtracted)\n
      \n
      *Have you ever considered that the Prime Directive is not only not ethical, but also illogical, and perhaps morally indefensible?*
      """
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729527982 {#1383
      date: 2024-10-21 18:26:22.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2061 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2084 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2076 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2083 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2085 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2062 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2077 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2063 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2064 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2088 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2087 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2086 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2093 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2094 …}
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    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2346 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2347 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2344 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2042 …}
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    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2289 …}
    +apId: "ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
    +apProfileId: "https://startrek.website/u/ValueSubtracted"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://startrek.website/u/ValueSubtracted"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://startrek.website/inbox"
    +apDomain: "startrek.website"
    +apPreferredUsername: "ValueSubtracted"
    +apDiscoverable: true
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    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
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      date: 2024-10-05 04:12:56.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699046482 {#2018
      date: 2023-11-03 22:21:22.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#18080
  +user: App\Entity\User {#2037
    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2144 …}
    +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2075 …}
    +email: "ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
    +username: "@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: """
      [Mastodon](https://mstdn.ca/@ValueSubtracted)\n
      \n
      *Have you ever considered that the Prime Directive is not only not ethical, but also illogical, and perhaps morally indefensible?*
      """
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729527982 {#1383
      date: 2024-10-21 18:26:22.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2061 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2084 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2076 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2083 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2085 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2062 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2077 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2063 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2064 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2088 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2087 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2086 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2093 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2094 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2346 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2347 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2344 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2042 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2060 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2331 …}
    -id: 70867
    -password: "$2y$13$weOVJncYRnZRqbiKGTaxK.0e7QlwXXDTYSZMRcRsm.U7XR2Z5jACC"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2289 …}
    +apId: "ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
    +apProfileId: "https://startrek.website/u/ValueSubtracted"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://startrek.website/u/ValueSubtracted"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://startrek.website/inbox"
    +apDomain: "startrek.website"
    +apPreferredUsername: "ValueSubtracted"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728094376 {#2022
      date: 2024-10-05 04:12:56.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699046482 {#2018
      date: 2023-11-03 22:21:22.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  +showAvatar: false
}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 20.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1705518874 {#2862
    date: 2024-01-17 20:14:34.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#18135
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1705518874 {#2862
    date: 2024-01-17 20:14:34.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 20.0 MiB 0.09 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1705518874 {#2862
    date: 2024-01-17 20:14:34.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#18189
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705518874 {#2862
    date: 2024-01-17 20:14:34.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 20.0 MiB 0.18 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#2037
    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2144 …}
    +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2075 …}
    +email: "ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
    +username: "@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: """
      [Mastodon](https://mstdn.ca/@ValueSubtracted)\n
      \n
      *Have you ever considered that the Prime Directive is not only not ethical, but also illogical, and perhaps morally indefensible?*
      """
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729527982 {#1383
      date: 2024-10-21 18:26:22.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2061 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2084 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2076 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2083 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2085 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2062 …}
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Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#18243
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vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 20.0 MiB 0.52 ms
Input props
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        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +slug: "Repetitive-Epics"
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       …2
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        +body: """
          I think you might be able to draw a parallel with long-running serials like comic books, or even Star Trek itself. They tend to revisit old themes and revolve around a certain status quo.\n
          \n
          They tend not to involve multigenerational obedience to an authoritarian regime, though…
          """
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      }
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2731}
      +body: "Isn’t there a version of Superman where he lands in Siberia instead of Saskatchewan and ends up a good Soviet citizen?"
      +lang: "en"
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    }
    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2731}
    +body: "[en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman:_Red_Son](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman:_Red_Son)"
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
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      date: 2024-01-17 20:14:34.0 +01:00
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent {#18315
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      +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2144 …}
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        [Mastodon](https://mstdn.ca/@ValueSubtracted)\n
        \n
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        """
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      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2061 …}
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      -totpSecret: null
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      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2289 …}
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      +privateKey: null
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        date: 2023-11-03 22:21:22.0 +01:00
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    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2162
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#9093 …}
      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
        +rules: null
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        +entryCommentCount: 161
        +postCount: 0
        +postCommentCount: 0
        +isAdult: false
        +customCss: null
        +lastActive: DateTime @1729204881 {#314
          date: 2024-10-18 00:41:21.0 +02:00
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        +markedForDeletionAt: null
        +tags: null
        +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#278 …}
        +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#274 …}
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        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#221 …}
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        +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#241 …}
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        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#144 …}
        +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#122 …}
        +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#112 …}
        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#101 …}
        +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#88 …}
        -id: 60
        +apId: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
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        +apPublicUrl: "https://startrek.website/c/daystrominstitute"
        +apFollowersUrl: "https://startrek.website/c/daystrominstitute/followers"
        +apInboxUrl: "https://startrek.website/inbox"
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        +apPreferredUsername: "daystrominstitute"
        +apDiscoverable: true
        +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
        +privateKey: null
        +publicKey: null
        +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728907748 {#315
          date: 2024-10-14 14:09:08.0 +02:00
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        +apDeletedAt: null
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          date: 2023-10-17 10:08:00.0 +02:00
        }
      }
      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3162 …}
      +slug: "Repetitive-Epics"
      +title: "Repetitive Epics"
      +url: null
      +body: "Garak asserts to Bashir that the Repetitive Epic is the finest form of Cardassian literature. I was wondering, is there any real-life literature that could be considered a “repetitive epic” in the same vein as “The Neverending Sacrifice?”"
      +type: "article"
      +lang: "en"
      +isOc: false
      +hasEmbed: false
      +commentCount: 10
      +favouriteCount: 15
      +score: 0
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      +lastActive: DateTime @1729204881 {#9094
        date: 2024-10-18 00:41:21.0 +02:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +adaAmount: 0
      +tags: null
      +mentions: null
      +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9099 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9102 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9104 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9106 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9108 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9110 …}
      +children: []
      -id: 29245
      -titleTs: "'epic':2 'repetit':1"
      -bodyTs: "'assert':2 'bashir':4 'cardassian':14 'consid':29 'could':27 'epic':8,32 'finest':11 'form':12 'garak':1 'life':24 'literatur':15,25 'neverend':39 'real':23 'real-lif':22 'repetit':7,31 'sacrific':40 'vein':36 'wonder':18"
      +cross: false
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        date: 2024-01-12 06:06:00.0 +01:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
    +image: null
    +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2831
      +user: App\Entity\User {#2204
        +avatar: null
        +cover: null
        +email: "inappropriatecontent@startrek.website"
        +username: "@inappropriatecontent@startrek.website"
        +roles: []
        +followersCount: 0
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        +markedForDeletionAt: null
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        +showSubscribedMagazines: true
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        +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
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        +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
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        +spamProtection: true
        +customCss: null
        +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
        +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2200 …}
        +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2270 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2257 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2267 …}
        +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2271 …}
        +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2272 …}
        +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2253 …}
        +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2262 …}
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        +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2234 …}
        +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2237 …}
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        +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2246 …}
        +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2248 …}
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        -totpSecret: null
        -totpBackupCodes: []
        -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2154 …}
        +apId: "inappropriatecontent@startrek.website"
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          date: 2024-01-25 07:26:50.0 +01:00
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        +apDeletedAt: null
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        +visibility: "visible             "
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          date: 2024-01-25 07:26:49.0 +01:00
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      }
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2162 …2}
      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
      +image: null
      +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2731
        +user: App\Entity\User {#2037}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2162 …2}
        +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
        +image: null
        +parent: null
        +root: null
        +body: """
          I think you might be able to draw a parallel with long-running serials like comic books, or even Star Trek itself. They tend to revisit old themes and revolve around a certain status quo.\n
          \n
          They tend not to involve multigenerational obedience to an authoritarian regime, though…
          """
        +lang: "en"
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        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@qantravon@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2732 …}
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        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2736 …}
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        -id: 301293
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'around':32 'authoritarian':46 'book':18 'certain':34 'comic':17 'draw':8 'even':20 'involv':41 'like':16 'long':13 'long-run':12 'might':4 'multigener':42 'obedi':43 'old':28 'parallel':10 'quo':36 'regim':47 'revisit':27 'revolv':31 'run':14 'serial':15 'star':21 'status':35 'tend':25,38 'theme':29 'think':2 'though':48 'trek':22"
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          date: 2024-01-12 08:20:58.0 +01:00
        }
      }
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2731}
      +body: "Isn’t there a version of Superman where he lands in Siberia instead of Saskatchewan and ends up a good Soviet citizen?"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 1
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1705518706 {#2832
        date: 2024-01-17 20:11:46.0 +01:00
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      +ip: null
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        "@qantravon@lemmy.world"
        "@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2828 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2824 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2822 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2837 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2839 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2841 …}
      -id: 317364
      -bodyTs: "'citizen':22 'end':17 'good':20 'instead':13 'isn':1 'land':10 'saskatchewan':15 'siberia':12 'soviet':21 'superman':7 'version':5"
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      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705518706 {#2835
        date: 2024-01-17 20:11:46.0 +01:00
      }
    }
    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2731}
    +body: "[en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman:_Red_Son](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman:_Red_Son)"
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
    +favouriteCount: 0
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    +lastActive: DateTime @1705518874 {#2863
      date: 2024-01-17 20:14:34.0 +01:00
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    +ip: null
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      "@qantravon@lemmy.world"
      "@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
      "@inappropriatecontent@startrek.website"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2942 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2943 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2930 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2932 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2934 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2936 …}
    -id: 317369
    -bodyTs: "'/wiki/superman:_red_son](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/superman:_red_son)':3 'en.wikipedia.org':2 'en.wikipedia.org/wiki/superman:_red_son](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/superman:_red_son)':1"
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  }
  +formDest: "entry_comment"
  +showDownvote: true
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
}
boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 20.0 MiB 0.69 ms
Input props
[
  "subject" => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2861
    +user: App\Entity\User {#2037
      +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2144 …}
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      +about: """
        [Mastodon](https://mstdn.ca/@ValueSubtracted)\n
        \n
        *Have you ever considered that the Prime Directive is not only not ethical, but also illogical, and perhaps morally indefensible?*
        """
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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          I think you might be able to draw a parallel with long-running serials like comic books, or even Star Trek itself. They tend to revisit old themes and revolve around a certain status quo.\n
          \n
          They tend not to involve multigenerational obedience to an authoritarian regime, though…
          """
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      +body: "Isn’t there a version of Superman where he lands in Siberia instead of Saskatchewan and ends up a good Soviet citizen?"
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[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent {#18372
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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          I think you might be able to draw a parallel with long-running serials like comic books, or even Star Trek itself. They tend to revisit old themes and revolve around a certain status quo.\n
          \n
          They tend not to involve multigenerational obedience to an authoritarian regime, though…
          """
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      +body: "Isn’t there a version of Superman where he lands in Siberia instead of Saskatchewan and ends up a good Soviet citizen?"
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    +body: "[en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman:_Red_Son](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman:_Red_Son)"
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entry_comments_nested App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentsNestedComponent 20.0 MiB 27.15 ms
Input props
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
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          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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          I think you might be able to draw a parallel with long-running serials like comic books, or even Star Trek itself. They tend to revisit old themes and revolve around a certain status quo.\n
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          They tend not to involve multigenerational obedience to an authoritarian regime, though…
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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        +customCss: null
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        +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2200 …}
        +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2270 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2257 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2267 …}
        +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2271 …}
        +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2272 …}
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        +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2262 …}
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        +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2242 …}
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        +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2246 …}
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          date: 2024-01-25 07:26:50.0 +01:00
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          date: 2024-01-25 07:26:49.0 +01:00
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      }
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2162 …2}
      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
      +image: null
      +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2731
        +user: App\Entity\User {#2037}
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2162 …2}
        +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
        +image: null
        +parent: null
        +root: null
        +body: """
          I think you might be able to draw a parallel with long-running serials like comic books, or even Star Trek itself. They tend to revisit old themes and revolve around a certain status quo.\n
          \n
          They tend not to involve multigenerational obedience to an authoritarian regime, though…
          """
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          date: 2024-10-18 00:41:21.0 +02:00
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          "@qantravon@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2732 …}
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        -id: 301293
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'around':32 'authoritarian':46 'book':18 'certain':34 'comic':17 'draw':8 'even':20 'involv':41 'like':16 'long':13 'long-run':12 'might':4 'multigener':42 'obedi':43 'old':28 'parallel':10 'quo':36 'regim':47 'revisit':27 'revolv':31 'run':14 'serial':15 'star':21 'status':35 'tend':25,38 'theme':29 'think':2 'though':48 'trek':22"
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705044058 {#2727
          date: 2024-01-12 08:20:58.0 +01:00
        }
      }
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2731}
      +body: "Isn’t there a version of Superman where he lands in Siberia instead of Saskatchewan and ends up a good Soviet citizen?"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
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        "@qantravon@lemmy.world"
        "@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
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      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2828 …}
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    }
    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2731}
    +body: "[en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman:_Red_Son](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman:_Red_Son)"
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
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  }
  +nestedComments: []
  +level: 3
  +view: "tree"
  -entryCommentRepository: App\Repository\EntryCommentRepository {#556 …}
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -security: Symfony\Bundle\SecurityBundle\Security {#1101 …}
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
}
entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 20.0 MiB 17.56 ms
Input props
[
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       …2
    }
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        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      }
      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3162 …}
      +slug: "Repetitive-Epics"
      +title: "Repetitive Epics"
      +url: null
      +body: "Garak asserts to Bashir that the Repetitive Epic is the finest form of Cardassian literature. I was wondering, is there any real-life literature that could be considered a “repetitive epic” in the same vein as “The Neverending Sacrifice?”"
      +type: "article"
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      +children: []
      -id: 29245
      -titleTs: "'epic':2 'repetit':1"
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      +cross: false
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      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
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            [Mastodon](https://mstdn.ca/@ValueSubtracted)\n
            \n
            *Have you ever considered that the Prime Directive is not only not ethical, but also illogical, and perhaps morally indefensible?*
            """
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        +body: """
          I think you might be able to draw a parallel with long-running serials like comic books, or even Star Trek itself. They tend to revisit old themes and revolve around a certain status quo.\n
          \n
          They tend not to involve multigenerational obedience to an authoritarian regime, though…
          """
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      }
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2731}
      +body: "Isn’t there a version of Superman where he lands in Siberia instead of Saskatchewan and ends up a good Soviet citizen?"
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    +body: "Now I want a Canadian superman. I think he was originally from Kansas. Well, first Krypton, but later Kansas."
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Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent {#18678
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        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +image: null
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      +slug: "Repetitive-Epics"
      +title: "Repetitive Epics"
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      +body: "Garak asserts to Bashir that the Repetitive Epic is the finest form of Cardassian literature. I was wondering, is there any real-life literature that could be considered a “repetitive epic” in the same vein as “The Neverending Sacrifice?”"
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       …2
    }
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
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        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1706164009 {#2194
          date: 2024-01-25 07:26:49.0 +01:00
        }
      }
      +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2162 …2}
      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
      +image: null
      +parent: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2731
        +user: App\Entity\User {#2037
          +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2144 …}
          +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2075 …}
          +email: "ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
          +username: "@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
          +roles: []
          +followersCount: 0
          +homepage: "front"
          +about: """
            [Mastodon](https://mstdn.ca/@ValueSubtracted)\n
            \n
            *Have you ever considered that the Prime Directive is not only not ethical, but also illogical, and perhaps morally indefensible?*
            """
          +lastActive: DateTime @1729527982 {#1383
            date: 2024-10-21 18:26:22.0 +02:00
          }
          +markedForDeletionAt: null
          +fields: null
          +oauthGithubId: null
          +oauthGoogleId: null
          +oauthFacebookId: null
          +oauthKeycloakId: null
          +hideAdult: true
          +showSubscribedUsers: true
          +showSubscribedMagazines: true
          +showSubscribedDomains: true
          +preferredLanguages: []
          +featuredMagazines: null
          +showProfileSubscriptions: false
          +showProfileFollowings: true
          +markNewComments: false
          +notifyOnNewEntry: false
          +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
          +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
          +notifyOnNewPost: false
          +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
          +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
          +addMentionsEntries: false
          +addMentionsPosts: true
          +isBanned: false
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          +isDeleted: false
          +isBot: false
          +spamProtection: true
          +customCss: null
          +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
          +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2061 …}
          +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2084 …}
          +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2076 …}
          +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2083 …}
          +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2085 …}
          +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2062 …}
          +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2077 …}
          +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2063 …}
          +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2064 …}
          +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2088 …}
          +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2087 …}
          +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2086 …}
          +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2093 …}
          +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2094 …}
          +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
          +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
          +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
          +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
          +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
          +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
          +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2346 …}
          +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2347 …}
          +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2344 …}
          +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2042 …}
          +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2060 …}
          +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2331 …}
          -id: 70867
          -password: "$2y$13$weOVJncYRnZRqbiKGTaxK.0e7QlwXXDTYSZMRcRsm.U7XR2Z5jACC"
          -totpSecret: null
          -totpBackupCodes: []
          -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2289 …}
          +apId: "ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
          +apProfileId: "https://startrek.website/u/ValueSubtracted"
          +apPublicUrl: "https://startrek.website/u/ValueSubtracted"
          +apFollowersUrl: null
          +apInboxUrl: "https://startrek.website/inbox"
          +apDomain: "startrek.website"
          +apPreferredUsername: "ValueSubtracted"
          +apDiscoverable: true
          +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
          +privateKey: null
          +publicKey: null
          +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728094376 {#2022
            date: 2024-10-05 04:12:56.0 +02:00
          }
          +apDeletedAt: null
          +apTimeoutAt: null
          +visibility: "visible             "
          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699046482 {#2018
            date: 2023-11-03 22:21:22.0 +01:00
          }
        }
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2162 …2}
        +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
        +image: null
        +parent: null
        +root: null
        +body: """
          I think you might be able to draw a parallel with long-running serials like comic books, or even Star Trek itself. They tend to revisit old themes and revolve around a certain status quo.\n
          \n
          They tend not to involve multigenerational obedience to an authoritarian regime, though…
          """
        +lang: "en"
        +isAdult: false
        +favouriteCount: 9
        +score: 0
        +lastActive: DateTime @1729204881 {#2726
          date: 2024-10-18 00:41:21.0 +02:00
        }
        +ip: null
        +tags: null
        +mentions: [
          "@qantravon@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2732 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2734 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2736 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2738 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2740 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2742 …}
        -id: 301293
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'around':32 'authoritarian':46 'book':18 'certain':34 'comic':17 'draw':8 'even':20 'involv':41 'like':16 'long':13 'long-run':12 'might':4 'multigener':42 'obedi':43 'old':28 'parallel':10 'quo':36 'regim':47 'revisit':27 'revolv':31 'run':14 'serial':15 'star':21 'status':35 'tend':25,38 'theme':29 'think':2 'though':48 'trek':22"
        +ranking: 0
        +commentCount: 0
        +upVotes: 0
        +downVotes: 0
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +apId: "https://startrek.website/comment/5640058"
        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705044058 {#2727
          date: 2024-01-12 08:20:58.0 +01:00
        }
      }
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2731}
      +body: "Isn’t there a version of Superman where he lands in Siberia instead of Saskatchewan and ends up a good Soviet citizen?"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 1
      +score: 0
      +lastActive: DateTime @1705518706 {#2832
        date: 2024-01-17 20:11:46.0 +01:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +tags: null
      +mentions: [
        "@qantravon@lemmy.world"
        "@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2828 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2824 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2822 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2837 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2839 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2841 …}
      -id: 317364
      -bodyTs: "'citizen':22 'end':17 'good':20 'instead':13 'isn':1 'land':10 'saskatchewan':15 'siberia':12 'soviet':21 'superman':7 'version':5"
      +ranking: 0
      +commentCount: 0
      +upVotes: 0
      +downVotes: 0
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://startrek.website/comment/5827803"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705518706 {#2835
        date: 2024-01-17 20:11:46.0 +01:00
      }
    }
    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2731}
    +body: "Now I want a Canadian superman. I think he was originally from Kansas. Well, first Krypton, but later Kansas."
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
    +favouriteCount: 0
    +score: 0
    +lastActive: DateTime @1706473315 {#2945
      date: 2024-01-28 21:21:55.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
    +tags: null
    +mentions: [
      "@qantravon@lemmy.world"
      "@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
      "@inappropriatecontent@startrek.website"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2940 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2948 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2950 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2952 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2954 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2956 …}
    -id: 347841
    -bodyTs: "'canadian':5 'first':15 'kansa':13,19 'krypton':16 'later':18 'origin':11 'superman':6 'think':8 'want':3 'well':14"
    +ranking: 0
    +commentCount: 0
    +upVotes: 0
    +downVotes: 0
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +apId: "https://sh.itjust.works/comment/8211486"
    +editedAt: null
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1706473315 {#2937
      date: 2024-01-28 21:21:55.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  +showMagazineName: false
  +showEntryTitle: false
  +showNested: true
  +level: 3
  +canSeeTrash: false
  +dateAsUrl: false
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -authorizationChecker: Symfony\Component\Security\Core\Authorization\AuthorizationChecker {#931 …}
}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 20.0 MiB 0.64 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2939
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "JungleJim@sh.itjust.works"
    +username: "@JungleJim@sh.itjust.works"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729204881 {#18760
      date: 2024-10-18 00:41:21.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18763 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18765 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18767 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18769 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18771 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18773 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18775 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18777 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18779 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18781 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18783 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18785 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18787 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18789 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18791 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18793 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18795 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18797 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18799 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18801 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18803 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18805 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18807 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18809 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18811 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18813 …}
    -id: 25113
    -password: "$2y$13$8Y3XYiGRcWJMOY71.xCGkOY3vW9jQ2jsRyEx.MpYRtDIqoWjiswsa"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18815 …}
    +apId: "JungleJim@sh.itjust.works"
    +apProfileId: "https://sh.itjust.works/u/JungleJim"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://sh.itjust.works/u/JungleJim"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://sh.itjust.works/inbox"
    +apDomain: "sh.itjust.works"
    +apPreferredUsername: "JungleJim"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1729283605 {#18761
      date: 2024-10-18 22:33:25.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689175927 {#18762
      date: 2023-07-12 17:32:07.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  "showAvatar" => false
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#18723
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2939
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "JungleJim@sh.itjust.works"
    +username: "@JungleJim@sh.itjust.works"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729204881 {#18760
      date: 2024-10-18 00:41:21.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18763 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18765 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18767 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18769 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18771 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18773 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18775 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18777 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18779 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18781 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18783 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18785 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18787 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18789 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18791 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18793 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18795 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18797 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18799 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18801 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18803 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18805 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18807 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18809 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18811 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18813 …}
    -id: 25113
    -password: "$2y$13$8Y3XYiGRcWJMOY71.xCGkOY3vW9jQ2jsRyEx.MpYRtDIqoWjiswsa"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18815 …}
    +apId: "JungleJim@sh.itjust.works"
    +apProfileId: "https://sh.itjust.works/u/JungleJim"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://sh.itjust.works/u/JungleJim"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://sh.itjust.works/inbox"
    +apDomain: "sh.itjust.works"
    +apPreferredUsername: "JungleJim"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1729283605 {#18761
      date: 2024-10-18 22:33:25.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689175927 {#18762
      date: 2023-07-12 17:32:07.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +showAvatar: false
}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 20.0 MiB 0.15 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1706473315 {#2937
    date: 2024-01-28 21:21:55.0 +01:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#18836
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1706473315 {#2937
    date: 2024-01-28 21:21:55.0 +01:00
  }
}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 20.0 MiB 0.09 ms
Input props
[
  "createdAt" => DateTimeImmutable @1706473315 {#2937
    date: 2024-01-28 21:21:55.0 +01:00
  }
  "editedAt" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#18890
  +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1706473315 {#2937
    date: 2024-01-28 21:21:55.0 +01:00
  }
  +editedAt: null
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 20.0 MiB 0.16 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2939
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "JungleJim@sh.itjust.works"
    +username: "@JungleJim@sh.itjust.works"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729204881 {#18760
      date: 2024-10-18 00:41:21.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18763 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18765 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18767 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18769 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18771 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18773 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18775 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18777 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18779 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18781 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18783 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18785 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18787 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18789 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18791 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18793 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18795 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18797 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18799 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18801 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18803 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18805 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18807 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18809 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18811 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18813 …}
    -id: 25113
    -password: "$2y$13$8Y3XYiGRcWJMOY71.xCGkOY3vW9jQ2jsRyEx.MpYRtDIqoWjiswsa"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#18815 …}
    +apId: "JungleJim@sh.itjust.works"
    +apProfileId: "https://sh.itjust.works/u/JungleJim"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://sh.itjust.works/u/JungleJim"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://sh.itjust.works/inbox"
    +apDomain: "sh.itjust.works"
    +apPreferredUsername: "JungleJim"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1729283605 {#18761
      date: 2024-10-18 22:33:25.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689175927 {#18762
      date: 2023-07-12 17:32:07.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  "width" => 40
  "height" => 40
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#18944
  +width: 40
  +height: 40
  +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#2939
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "JungleJim@sh.itjust.works"
    +username: "@JungleJim@sh.itjust.works"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
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}
vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 20.0 MiB 0.49 ms
Input props
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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            [Mastodon](https://mstdn.ca/@ValueSubtracted)\n
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        +body: """
          I think you might be able to draw a parallel with long-running serials like comic books, or even Star Trek itself. They tend to revisit old themes and revolve around a certain status quo.\n
          \n
          They tend not to involve multigenerational obedience to an authoritarian regime, though…
          """
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      }
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2731}
      +body: "Isn’t there a version of Superman where he lands in Siberia instead of Saskatchewan and ends up a good Soviet citizen?"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
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    }
    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2731}
    +body: "Now I want a Canadian superman. I think he was originally from Kansas. Well, first Krypton, but later Kansas."
    +lang: "en"
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent {#19013
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       …2
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        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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       …2
    }
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            [Mastodon](https://mstdn.ca/@ValueSubtracted)\n
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            """
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        +body: """
          I think you might be able to draw a parallel with long-running serials like comic books, or even Star Trek itself. They tend to revisit old themes and revolve around a certain status quo.\n
          \n
          They tend not to involve multigenerational obedience to an authoritarian regime, though…
          """
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          date: 2024-10-18 00:41:21.0 +02:00
        }
        +ip: null
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          "@qantravon@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2732 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2734 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2736 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2738 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2740 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2742 …}
        -id: 301293
        -bodyTs: "'abl':6 'around':32 'authoritarian':46 'book':18 'certain':34 'comic':17 'draw':8 'even':20 'involv':41 'like':16 'long':13 'long-run':12 'might':4 'multigener':42 'obedi':43 'old':28 'parallel':10 'quo':36 'regim':47 'revisit':27 'revolv':31 'run':14 'serial':15 'star':21 'status':35 'tend':25,38 'theme':29 'think':2 'though':48 'trek':22"
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        }
      }
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2731}
      +body: "Isn’t there a version of Superman where he lands in Siberia instead of Saskatchewan and ends up a good Soviet citizen?"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 1
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      +ip: null
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        "@qantravon@lemmy.world"
        "@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
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      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2828 …}
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      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2841 …}
      -id: 317364
      -bodyTs: "'citizen':22 'end':17 'good':20 'instead':13 'isn':1 'land':10 'saskatchewan':15 'siberia':12 'soviet':21 'superman':7 'version':5"
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      }
    }
    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2731}
    +body: "Now I want a Canadian superman. I think he was originally from Kansas. Well, first Krypton, but later Kansas."
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
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      "@inappropriatecontent@startrek.website"
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    -id: 347841
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  }
  +formDest: "entry_comment"
  +showDownvote: true
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
}
boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 20.0 MiB 0.71 ms
Input props
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       …2
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        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +image: null
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      +slug: "Repetitive-Epics"
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       …2
    }
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
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            """
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        +body: """
          I think you might be able to draw a parallel with long-running serials like comic books, or even Star Trek itself. They tend to revisit old themes and revolve around a certain status quo.\n
          \n
          They tend not to involve multigenerational obedience to an authoritarian regime, though…
          """
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      }
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2731}
      +body: "Isn’t there a version of Superman where he lands in Siberia instead of Saskatchewan and ends up a good Soviet citizen?"
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    +body: "Now I want a Canadian superman. I think he was originally from Kansas. Well, first Krypton, but later Kansas."
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]
Attributes
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Component
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        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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        +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
        +image: null
        +parent: null
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        +body: """
          I think you might be able to draw a parallel with long-running serials like comic books, or even Star Trek itself. They tend to revisit old themes and revolve around a certain status quo.\n
          \n
          They tend not to involve multigenerational obedience to an authoritarian regime, though…
          """
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        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2732 …}
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      }
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2731}
      +body: "Isn’t there a version of Superman where he lands in Siberia instead of Saskatchewan and ends up a good Soviet citizen?"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
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    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2731}
    +body: "Now I want a Canadian superman. I think he was originally from Kansas. Well, first Krypton, but later Kansas."
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entry_comments_nested App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentsNestedComponent 20.0 MiB 3.13 ms
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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        +body: """
          I think you might be able to draw a parallel with long-running serials like comic books, or even Star Trek itself. They tend to revisit old themes and revolve around a certain status quo.\n
          \n
          They tend not to involve multigenerational obedience to an authoritarian regime, though…
          """
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      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2731}
      +body: "Isn’t there a version of Superman where he lands in Siberia instead of Saskatchewan and ends up a good Soviet citizen?"
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    +body: "Now I want a Canadian superman. I think he was originally from Kansas. Well, first Krypton, but later Kansas."
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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          +apFollowersUrl: null
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          +apDiscoverable: true
          +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
          +privateKey: null
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          +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728094376 {#2022
            date: 2024-10-05 04:12:56.0 +02:00
          }
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          +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699046482 {#2018
            date: 2023-11-03 22:21:22.0 +01:00
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        }
        +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2162 …2}
        +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
        +image: null
        +parent: null
        +root: null
        +body: """
          I think you might be able to draw a parallel with long-running serials like comic books, or even Star Trek itself. They tend to revisit old themes and revolve around a certain status quo.\n
          \n
          They tend not to involve multigenerational obedience to an authoritarian regime, though…
          """
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        +ip: null
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        +mentions: [
          "@qantravon@lemmy.world"
        ]
        +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2732 …}
        +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2734 …}
        +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2736 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2738 …}
        +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2740 …}
        +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2742 …}
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        +editedAt: null
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705044058 {#2727
          date: 2024-01-12 08:20:58.0 +01:00
        }
      }
      +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2731}
      +body: "Isn’t there a version of Superman where he lands in Siberia instead of Saskatchewan and ends up a good Soviet citizen?"
      +lang: "en"
      +isAdult: false
      +favouriteCount: 1
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      +lastActive: DateTime @1705518706 {#2832
        date: 2024-01-17 20:11:46.0 +01:00
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      +ip: null
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        "@qantravon@lemmy.world"
        "@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
      ]
      +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2828 …}
      +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2824 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2822 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2837 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2839 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2841 …}
      -id: 317364
      -bodyTs: "'citizen':22 'end':17 'good':20 'instead':13 'isn':1 'land':10 'saskatchewan':15 'siberia':12 'soviet':21 'superman':7 'version':5"
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705518706 {#2835
        date: 2024-01-17 20:11:46.0 +01:00
      }
    }
    +root: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2731}
    +body: "Now I want a Canadian superman. I think he was originally from Kansas. Well, first Krypton, but later Kansas."
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
    +favouriteCount: 0
    +score: 0
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      date: 2024-01-28 21:21:55.0 +01:00
    }
    +ip: null
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    +mentions: [
      "@qantravon@lemmy.world"
      "@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
      "@inappropriatecontent@startrek.website"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2940 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2948 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2950 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2952 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2954 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2956 …}
    -id: 347841
    -bodyTs: "'canadian':5 'first':15 'kansa':13,19 'krypton':16 'later':18 'origin':11 'superman':6 'think':8 'want':3 'well':14"
    +ranking: 0
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      date: 2024-01-28 21:21:55.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  +nestedComments: []
  +level: 3
  +view: "tree"
  -entryCommentRepository: App\Repository\EntryCommentRepository {#556 …}
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -security: Symfony\Bundle\SecurityBundle\Security {#1101 …}
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
}
entry_comment App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent 20.0 MiB 28.91 ms
Input props
[
  "comment" => App\Entity\EntryComment {#2747
    +user: App\Entity\User {#2760
      +avatar: null
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      +email: "gregorum@lemm.ee"
      +username: "@gregorum@lemm.ee"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
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      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2761 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2763 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2765 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2767 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2769 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2771 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2773 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2775 …}
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      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2779 …}
      +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2781 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2783 …}
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      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2795 …}
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      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2799 …}
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      +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2803 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2805 …}
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      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2813 …}
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      +apDiscoverable: true
      +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
      +privateKey: null
      +publicKey: null
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        date: 2024-10-14 17:15:49.0 +02:00
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      +apDeletedAt: null
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      +visibility: "visible             "
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        date: 2023-10-04 00:35:26.0 +02:00
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    }
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2162
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#9093 …}
      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
        +rules: null
        +subscriptionsCount: 1
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        +entryCommentCount: 161
        +postCount: 0
        +postCommentCount: 0
        +isAdult: false
        +customCss: null
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          date: 2024-10-18 00:41:21.0 +02:00
        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
        +tags: null
        +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#278 …}
        +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#274 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#263 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#221 …}
        +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#179 …}
        +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#241 …}
        +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#158 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#144 …}
        +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#122 …}
        +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#112 …}
        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#101 …}
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        -id: 60
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        +apDiscoverable: true
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        +publicKey: null
        +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728907748 {#315
          date: 2024-10-14 14:09:08.0 +02:00
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        +apDeletedAt: null
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          date: 2023-10-17 10:08:00.0 +02:00
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      }
      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3162 …}
      +slug: "Repetitive-Epics"
      +title: "Repetitive Epics"
      +url: null
      +body: "Garak asserts to Bashir that the Repetitive Epic is the finest form of Cardassian literature. I was wondering, is there any real-life literature that could be considered a “repetitive epic” in the same vein as “The Neverending Sacrifice?”"
      +type: "article"
      +lang: "en"
      +isOc: false
      +hasEmbed: false
      +commentCount: 10
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      +ip: null
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      +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9099 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9102 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9104 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9106 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9108 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9110 …}
      +children: []
      -id: 29245
      -titleTs: "'epic':2 'repetit':1"
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        date: 2024-01-12 06:06:00.0 +01:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
    +image: null
    +parent: null
    +root: null
    +body: "Unfortunately, not enough detail was given regarding the story or plot, so no comparison can really be made."
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
    +favouriteCount: 2
    +score: 0
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    +ip: null
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      "@qantravon@lemmy.world"
      "@qantravon@lemmy.world"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2748 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2750 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2752 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2754 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2756 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2758 …}
    -id: 301262
    -bodyTs: "'comparison':14 'detail':4 'enough':3 'given':6 'made':18 'plot':11 'realli':16 'regard':7 'stori':9 'unfortun':1"
    +ranking: 0
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    }
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      date: 2024-01-12 07:57:08.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  "showNested" => true
  "dateAsUrl" => false
  "showMagazineName" => false
  "showEntryTitle" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentComponent {#19397
  +comment: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2747
    +user: App\Entity\User {#2760
      +avatar: null
      +cover: null
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      +username: "@gregorum@lemm.ee"
      +roles: []
      +followersCount: 0
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        date: 2024-10-19 09:07:53.0 +02:00
      }
      +markedForDeletionAt: null
      +fields: null
      +oauthGithubId: null
      +oauthGoogleId: null
      +oauthFacebookId: null
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      +hideAdult: true
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      +showSubscribedMagazines: true
      +showSubscribedDomains: true
      +preferredLanguages: []
      +featuredMagazines: null
      +showProfileSubscriptions: false
      +showProfileFollowings: true
      +markNewComments: false
      +notifyOnNewEntry: false
      +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
      +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
      +notifyOnNewPost: false
      +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
      +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
      +addMentionsEntries: false
      +addMentionsPosts: true
      +isBanned: false
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      +isDeleted: false
      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2761 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2763 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2765 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2767 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2769 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2771 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2773 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2775 …}
      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2777 …}
      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2779 …}
      +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2781 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2783 …}
      +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2785 …}
      +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2787 …}
      +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2789 …}
      +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2791 …}
      +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2793 …}
      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2795 …}
      +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2797 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2799 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2801 …}
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      +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2809 …}
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      -totpSecret: null
      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2813 …}
      +apId: "gregorum@lemm.ee"
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      +apDiscoverable: true
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      +privateKey: null
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        date: 2024-10-14 17:15:49.0 +02:00
      }
      +apDeletedAt: null
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      +visibility: "visible             "
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        date: 2023-10-04 00:35:26.0 +02:00
      }
    }
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2162
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#9093 …}
      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
    +image: null
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    +lang: "en"
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user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 20.0 MiB 0.16 ms
Input props
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    +customCss: null
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    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2763 …}
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Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#19442
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    +avatar: null
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date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 20.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1705042628 {#2728
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#19497
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1705042628 {#2728
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}
date_edited App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent 20.0 MiB 0.21 ms
Input props
[
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    date: 2024-01-12 07:57:08.0 +01:00
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateEditedComponent {#19551
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}
entry_inline App\Twig\Components\EntryInlineComponent 20.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
  "entry" => Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2162
    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#9093 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
      +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
      +title: "daystrominstitute"
      +description: """
        [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
        \n
        Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
        \n
        Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
        \n
        ##### **Rules**\n
        \n
        **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
        \n
        All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
        \n
        **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
        \n
        This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
        \n
        **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
        \n
        Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
        \n
        **4. Assume good faith.**\n
        \n
        Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
        \n
        **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
        \n
        Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
        \n
        **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
        \n
        Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
        \n
        #### **Episode Guides**\n
        \n
        The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
        \n
        - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
        - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
        - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
        - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
        """
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryInlineComponent {#19605
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    +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#9093 …}
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
      +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
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        [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
        \n
        Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
        \n
        Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
        \n
        ##### **Rules**\n
        \n
        **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
        \n
        All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
        \n
        **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
        \n
        This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
        \n
        **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
        \n
        Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
        \n
        **4. Assume good faith.**\n
        \n
        Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
        \n
        **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
        \n
        Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
        \n
        **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
        \n
        Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
        \n
        #### **Episode Guides**\n
        \n
        The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
        \n
        - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
        - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
        - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
        - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
        - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
        """
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vote App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent 20.0 MiB 0.57 ms
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          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
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          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
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          \n
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          \n
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          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
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          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
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          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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Component
App\Twig\Components\VoteComponent {#19729
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          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
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          \n
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          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
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          \n
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          \n
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          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
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boost App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent 20.0 MiB 0.75 ms
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          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
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          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
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          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
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          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
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          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
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          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\BoostComponent {#19786
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
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          \n
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          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
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          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
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entry_comments_nested App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentsNestedComponent 20.0 MiB 1.02 ms
Input props
[
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          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
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      +sticky: false
      +lastActive: DateTime @1729204881 {#9094
        date: 2024-10-18 00:41:21.0 +02:00
      }
      +ip: null
      +adaAmount: 0
      +tags: null
      +mentions: null
      +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9099 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9102 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9104 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9106 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9108 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9110 …}
      +children: []
      -id: 29245
      -titleTs: "'epic':2 'repetit':1"
      -bodyTs: "'assert':2 'bashir':4 'cardassian':14 'consid':29 'could':27 'epic':8,32 'finest':11 'form':12 'garak':1 'life':24 'literatur':15,25 'neverend':39 'real':23 'real-lif':22 'repetit':7,31 'sacrific':40 'vein':36 'wonder':18"
      +cross: false
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      +ranking: 1705122360
      +visibility: "visible             "
      +apId: "https://lemmy.world/post/10605560"
      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705035960 {#9091
        date: 2024-01-12 06:06:00.0 +01:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
    +image: null
    +parent: null
    +root: null
    +body: "Unfortunately, not enough detail was given regarding the story or plot, so no comparison can really be made."
    +lang: "en"
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    +ip: null
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      "@qantravon@lemmy.world"
      "@qantravon@lemmy.world"
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    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2748 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2750 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2752 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2754 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2756 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2758 …}
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    }
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705042628 {#2728
      date: 2024-01-12 07:57:08.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  "level" => 1
  "showNested" => true
  "view" => "tree"
]
Attributes
[
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]
Component
App\Twig\Components\EntryCommentsNestedComponent {#20026
  +comment: App\Entity\EntryComment {#2747
    +user: App\Entity\User {#2760
      +avatar: null
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      +username: "@gregorum@lemm.ee"
      +roles: []
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        date: 2024-10-19 09:07:53.0 +02:00
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      +markedForDeletionAt: null
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      +markNewComments: false
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      +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
      +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
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      +isBot: false
      +spamProtection: true
      +customCss: null
      +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
      +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2761 …}
      +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2763 …}
      +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2765 …}
      +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2767 …}
      +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2769 …}
      +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2771 …}
      +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2773 …}
      +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2775 …}
      +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2777 …}
      +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2779 …}
      +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2781 …}
      +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2783 …}
      +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2785 …}
      +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2787 …}
      +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2789 …}
      +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2791 …}
      +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2793 …}
      +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2795 …}
      +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2797 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2799 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2801 …}
      +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2803 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2805 …}
      +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2807 …}
      +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2809 …}
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      -totpSecret: null
      -totpBackupCodes: []
      -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2813 …}
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        date: 2024-10-14 17:15:49.0 +02:00
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      +apDeletedAt: null
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      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1696372526 {#2746
        date: 2023-10-04 00:35:26.0 +02:00
      }
    }
    +entry: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Entry {#2162
      +user: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#9093 …}
      +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
        +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
        +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +title: "daystrominstitute"
        +description: """
          [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
          \n
          Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
          \n
          Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
          \n
          ##### **Rules**\n
          \n
          **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
          \n
          All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
          \n
          **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
          \n
          This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
          \n
          **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
          \n
          Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
          \n
          **4. Assume good faith.**\n
          \n
          Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
          \n
          **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
          \n
          Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
          \n
          **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
          \n
          Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
          \n
          #### **Episode Guides**\n
          \n
          The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
          \n
          - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
          - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
          - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
          - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
          - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
          """
        +rules: null
        +subscriptionsCount: 1
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        +entryCommentCount: 161
        +postCount: 0
        +postCommentCount: 0
        +isAdult: false
        +customCss: null
        +lastActive: DateTime @1729204881 {#314
          date: 2024-10-18 00:41:21.0 +02:00
        }
        +markedForDeletionAt: null
        +tags: null
        +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#278 …}
        +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#274 …}
        +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#263 …}
        +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#221 …}
        +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#179 …}
        +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#241 …}
        +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#158 …}
        +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#144 …}
        +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#122 …}
        +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#112 …}
        +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#101 …}
        +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#88 …}
        -id: 60
        +apId: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
        +apProfileId: "https://startrek.website/c/daystrominstitute"
        +apPublicUrl: "https://startrek.website/c/daystrominstitute"
        +apFollowersUrl: "https://startrek.website/c/daystrominstitute/followers"
        +apInboxUrl: "https://startrek.website/inbox"
        +apDomain: "startrek.website"
        +apPreferredUsername: "daystrominstitute"
        +apDiscoverable: true
        +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
        +privateKey: null
        +publicKey: null
        +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728907748 {#315
          date: 2024-10-14 14:09:08.0 +02:00
        }
        +apDeletedAt: null
        +apTimeoutAt: null
        +visibility: "visible             "
        +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697530080 {#309
          date: 2023-10-17 10:08:00.0 +02:00
        }
      }
      +image: null
      +domain: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Domain {#3162 …}
      +slug: "Repetitive-Epics"
      +title: "Repetitive Epics"
      +url: null
      +body: "Garak asserts to Bashir that the Repetitive Epic is the finest form of Cardassian literature. I was wondering, is there any real-life literature that could be considered a “repetitive epic” in the same vein as “The Neverending Sacrifice?”"
      +type: "article"
      +lang: "en"
      +isOc: false
      +hasEmbed: false
      +commentCount: 10
      +favouriteCount: 15
      +score: 0
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      +sticky: false
      +lastActive: DateTime @1729204881 {#9094
        date: 2024-10-18 00:41:21.0 +02:00
      }
      +ip: null
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      +tags: null
      +mentions: null
      +comments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9099 …}
      +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9102 …}
      +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9104 …}
      +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9106 …}
      +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9108 …}
      +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#9110 …}
      +children: []
      -id: 29245
      -titleTs: "'epic':2 'repetit':1"
      -bodyTs: "'assert':2 'bashir':4 'cardassian':14 'consid':29 'could':27 'epic':8,32 'finest':11 'form':12 'garak':1 'life':24 'literatur':15,25 'neverend':39 'real':23 'real-lif':22 'repetit':7,31 'sacrific':40 'vein':36 'wonder':18"
      +cross: false
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      +ranking: 1705122360
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      +editedAt: null
      +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705035960 {#9091
        date: 2024-01-12 06:06:00.0 +01:00
      }
      +__isInitialized__: true
       …2
    }
    +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306}
    +image: null
    +parent: null
    +root: null
    +body: "Unfortunately, not enough detail was given regarding the story or plot, so no comparison can really be made."
    +lang: "en"
    +isAdult: false
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    }
    +ip: null
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    +mentions: [
      "@qantravon@lemmy.world"
      "@qantravon@lemmy.world"
    ]
    +children: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2748 …}
    +nested: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2750 …}
    +votes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2752 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2754 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2756 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2758 …}
    -id: 301262
    -bodyTs: "'comparison':14 'detail':4 'enough':3 'given':6 'made':18 'plot':11 'realli':16 'regard':7 'stori':9 'unfortun':1"
    +ranking: 0
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    +apId: "https://lemm.ee/comment/8175892"
    +editedAt: DateTimeImmutable @1721525866 {#2729
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    }
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1705042628 {#2728
      date: 2024-01-12 07:57:08.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  +nestedComments: []
  +level: 1
  +view: "tree"
  -entryCommentRepository: App\Repository\EntryCommentRepository {#556 …}
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -security: Symfony\Bundle\SecurityBundle\Security {#1101 …}
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
}
settings_row_enum App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowEnumComponent 20.0 MiB 0.22 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Sidebar position"
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  "values" => [
    [
      "name" => "Left"
      "value" => "LEFT"
    ]
    [
      "name" => "Right"
      "value" => "RIGHT"
    ]
  ]
  "defaultValue" => "RIGHT"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowEnumComponent {#20133
  +label: "Sidebar position"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_GENERAL_SIDEBAR_POSITION"
  +values: [
    [
      "name" => "Left"
      "value" => "LEFT"
    ]
    [
      "name" => "Right"
      "value" => "RIGHT"
    ]
  ]
  +defaultValue: "RIGHT"
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 20.0 MiB 0.19 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Dynamic lists"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_GENERAL_DYNAMIC_LISTS"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#20197
  +label: "Dynamic lists"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_GENERAL_DYNAMIC_LISTS"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 20.0 MiB 0.26 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Rounded edges"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_GENERAL_ROUNDED_EDGES"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#20296
  +label: "Rounded edges"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_GENERAL_ROUNDED_EDGES"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 20.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Infinite scrolling"
  "help" => "Automatically load more content when you reach the bottom of the page."
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_GENERAL_INFINITE_SCROLL"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#20352
  +label: "Infinite scrolling"
  +help: "Automatically load more content when you reach the bottom of the page."
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_GENERAL_INFINITE_SCROLL"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 20.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Sticky navbar"
  "help" => "The navbar will stick to the top of the page when you scroll down."
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_GENERAL_FIXED_NAVBAR"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#20411
  +label: "Sticky navbar"
  +help: "The navbar will stick to the top of the page when you scroll down."
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_GENERAL_FIXED_NAVBAR"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 20.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show top bar"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_GENERAL_TOPBAR"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#20467
  +label: "Show top bar"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_GENERAL_TOPBAR"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 20.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Turbo mode (experimental)"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_GENERAL_TURBO"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#20523
  +label: "Turbo mode (experimental)"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_GENERAL_TURBO"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
user_settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\UserSettingsRowSwitchComponent 20.0 MiB 0.25 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Mark new comments"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_MARK_NEW_COMMENTS"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserSettingsRowSwitchComponent {#20581
  +label: "Mark new comments"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_MARK_NEW_COMMENTS"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 20.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show "Support Us" block"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_GENERAL_SUPPORT_US_BLOCK"
  "defaultValue" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#20644
  +label: "Show "Support Us" block"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_GENERAL_SUPPORT_US_BLOCK"
  +defaultValue: true
  +reloadRequired: true
}
user_settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\UserSettingsRowSwitchComponent 20.0 MiB 0.16 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show subscribed users"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_SUB_CHANNEL_USERS"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserSettingsRowSwitchComponent {#20702
  +label: "Show subscribed users"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_SUB_CHANNEL_USERS"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
user_settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\UserSettingsRowSwitchComponent 20.0 MiB 0.21 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show subscribed magazines"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_SUB_CHANNEL_MAGAZINES"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserSettingsRowSwitchComponent {#20758
  +label: "Show subscribed magazines"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_SUB_CHANNEL_MAGAZINES"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
user_settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\UserSettingsRowSwitchComponent 20.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show subscribed domains"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_SUB_CHANNEL_DOMAINS"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserSettingsRowSwitchComponent {#20814
  +label: "Show subscribed domains"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_SUB_CHANNEL_DOMAINS"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 20.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Auto media preview"
  "help" => "Automatically expand media previews."
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_ENTRIES_SHOW_PREVIEW"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#20870
  +label: "Auto media preview"
  +help: "Automatically expand media previews."
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_ENTRIES_SHOW_PREVIEW"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 20.0 MiB 0.14 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Compact view"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_ENTRIES_COMPACT"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#20926
  +label: "Compact view"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_ENTRIES_COMPACT"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 20.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show users’ avatars"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_ENTRIES_SHOW_USERS_AVATARS"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#20982
  +label: "Show users’ avatars"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_ENTRIES_SHOW_USERS_AVATARS"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 20.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show magazines’ icons"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_ENTRIES_SHOW_MAGAZINES_ICONS"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#21038
  +label: "Show magazines’ icons"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_ENTRIES_SHOW_MAGAZINES_ICONS"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 20.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show thumbnails"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_ENTRIES_SHOW_THUMBNAILS"
  "defaultValue" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#21094
  +label: "Show thumbnails"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_ENTRIES_SHOW_THUMBNAILS"
  +defaultValue: true
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 20.0 MiB 0.12 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Auto media preview"
  "help" => "Automatically expand media previews."
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_POSTS_SHOW_PREVIEW"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#21150
  +label: "Auto media preview"
  +help: "Automatically expand media previews."
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_POSTS_SHOW_PREVIEW"
  +defaultValue: false
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 20.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show users’ avatars"
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_POSTS_SHOW_USERS_AVATARS"
  "defaultValue" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#21206
  +label: "Show users’ avatars"
  +help: ""
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_POSTS_SHOW_USERS_AVATARS"
  +defaultValue: true
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_enum App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowEnumComponent 20.0 MiB 0.29 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Comment reply position"
  "help" => "Display the comment reply form either at the top or bottom of the page. When 'infinite scroll' is enabled the position will always appear at the top."
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_COMMENTS_REPLY_POSITION"
  "values" => [
    [
      "name" => "top"
      "value" => "TOP"
    ]
    [
      "name" => "bottom"
      "value" => "BOTTOM"
    ]
  ]
  "defaultValue" => "TOP"
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowEnumComponent {#21262
  +label: "Comment reply position"
  +help: "Display the comment reply form either at the top or bottom of the page. When 'infinite scroll' is enabled the position will always appear at the top."
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_COMMENTS_REPLY_POSITION"
  +values: [
    [
      "name" => "top"
      "value" => "TOP"
    ]
    [
      "name" => "bottom"
      "value" => "BOTTOM"
    ]
  ]
  +defaultValue: "TOP"
  +reloadRequired: true
}
settings_row_switch App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent 20.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
  "label" => "Show Comment Avatars"
  "help" => "Display/hide user avatars when viewing comments on a single thread or post."
  "settingsKey" => "KBIN_COMMENTS_SHOW_USER_AVATAR"
  "defaultValue" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SettingsRowSwitchComponent {#21320
  +label: "Show Comment Avatars"
  +help: "Display/hide user avatars when viewing comments on a single thread or post."
  +settingsKey: "KBIN_COMMENTS_SHOW_USER_AVATAR"
  +defaultValue: true
  +reloadRequired: true
}
magazine_box App\Twig\Components\MagazineBoxComponent 20.0 MiB 15.16 ms
Input props
[
  "magazine" => App\Entity\Magazine {#306
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
    +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
    +title: "daystrominstitute"
    +description: """
      [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
      \n
      Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
      \n
      Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
      \n
      ##### **Rules**\n
      \n
      **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
      \n
      All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
      \n
      **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
      \n
      This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
      \n
      **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
      \n
      Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
      \n
      **4. Assume good faith.**\n
      \n
      Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
      \n
      **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
      \n
      Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
      \n
      **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
      \n
      Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
      \n
      #### **Episode Guides**\n
      \n
      The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
      \n
      - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
      - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
      - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
      - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
      - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
      - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
      - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 1
    +entryCount: 30
    +entryCommentCount: 161
    +postCount: 0
    +postCommentCount: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729204881 {#314
      date: 2024-10-18 00:41:21.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#278 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#274 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#263 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#221 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#179 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#241 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#158 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#144 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#122 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#112 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#101 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#88 …}
    -id: 60
    +apId: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
    +apProfileId: "https://startrek.website/c/daystrominstitute"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://startrek.website/c/daystrominstitute"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://startrek.website/c/daystrominstitute/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://startrek.website/inbox"
    +apDomain: "startrek.website"
    +apPreferredUsername: "daystrominstitute"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728907748 {#315
      date: 2024-10-14 14:09:08.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697530080 {#309
      date: 2023-10-17 10:08:00.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "showSectionTitle" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\MagazineBoxComponent {#21391
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
    +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
    +title: "daystrominstitute"
    +description: """
      [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
      \n
      Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
      \n
      Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
      \n
      ##### **Rules**\n
      \n
      **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
      \n
      All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
      \n
      **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
      \n
      This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
      \n
      **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
      \n
      Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
      \n
      **4. Assume good faith.**\n
      \n
      Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
      \n
      **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
      \n
      Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
      \n
      **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
      \n
      Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
      \n
      #### **Episode Guides**\n
      \n
      The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
      \n
      - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
      - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
      - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
      - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
      - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
      - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
      - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 1
    +entryCount: 30
    +entryCommentCount: 161
    +postCount: 0
    +postCommentCount: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
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      date: 2024-10-18 00:41:21.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#278 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#274 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#263 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#221 …}
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    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#158 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#144 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#122 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#112 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#101 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#88 …}
    -id: 60
    +apId: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
    +apProfileId: "https://startrek.website/c/daystrominstitute"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://startrek.website/c/daystrominstitute"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://startrek.website/c/daystrominstitute/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://startrek.website/inbox"
    +apDomain: "startrek.website"
    +apPreferredUsername: "daystrominstitute"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728907748 {#315
      date: 2024-10-14 14:09:08.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697530080 {#309
      date: 2023-10-17 10:08:00.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +showCover: true
  +showDescription: true
  +showRules: true
  +showSubscribeButton: true
  +showInfo: true
  +showMeta: true
  +showSectionTitle: true
  +stretchedLink: true
}
magazine_sub App\Twig\Components\MagazineSubComponent 20.0 MiB 0.53 ms
Input props
[
  "magazine" => App\Entity\Magazine {#306
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
    +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
    +title: "daystrominstitute"
    +description: """
      [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
      \n
      Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
      \n
      Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
      \n
      ##### **Rules**\n
      \n
      **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
      \n
      All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
      \n
      **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
      \n
      This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
      \n
      **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
      \n
      Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
      \n
      **4. Assume good faith.**\n
      \n
      Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
      \n
      **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
      \n
      Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
      \n
      **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
      \n
      Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
      \n
      #### **Episode Guides**\n
      \n
      The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
      \n
      - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
      - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
      - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
      - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
      - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
      - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
      - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 1
    +entryCount: 30
    +entryCommentCount: 161
    +postCount: 0
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    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
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      date: 2024-10-18 00:41:21.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#278 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#274 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#263 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#221 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#179 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#241 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#158 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#144 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#122 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#112 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#101 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#88 …}
    -id: 60
    +apId: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
    +apProfileId: "https://startrek.website/c/daystrominstitute"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://startrek.website/c/daystrominstitute"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://startrek.website/c/daystrominstitute/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://startrek.website/inbox"
    +apDomain: "startrek.website"
    +apPreferredUsername: "daystrominstitute"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728907748 {#315
      date: 2024-10-14 14:09:08.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697530080 {#309
      date: 2023-10-17 10:08:00.0 +02:00
    }
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\MagazineSubComponent {#21450
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
    +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
    +title: "daystrominstitute"
    +description: """
      [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
      \n
      Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
      \n
      Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
      \n
      ##### **Rules**\n
      \n
      **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
      \n
      All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
      \n
      **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
      \n
      This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
      \n
      **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
      \n
      Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
      \n
      **4. Assume good faith.**\n
      \n
      Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
      \n
      **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
      \n
      Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
      \n
      **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
      \n
      Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
      \n
      #### **Episode Guides**\n
      \n
      The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
      \n
      - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
      - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
      - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
      - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
      - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
      - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
      - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
      """
    +rules: null
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    +postCount: 0
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    +isAdult: false
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    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#278 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#274 …}
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    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#221 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#179 …}
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    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#158 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#144 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#122 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#112 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#101 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#88 …}
    -id: 60
    +apId: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
    +apProfileId: "https://startrek.website/c/daystrominstitute"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://startrek.website/c/daystrominstitute"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://startrek.website/c/daystrominstitute/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://startrek.website/inbox"
    +apDomain: "startrek.website"
    +apPreferredUsername: "daystrominstitute"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728907748 {#315
      date: 2024-10-14 14:09:08.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697530080 {#309
      date: 2023-10-17 10:08:00.0 +02:00
    }
  }
}
date App\Twig\Components\DateComponent 20.0 MiB 0.13 ms
Input props
[
  "date" => DateTimeImmutable @1697530080 {#309
    date: 2023-10-17 10:08:00.0 +02:00
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\DateComponent {#21701
  +date: DateTimeImmutable @1697530080 {#309
    date: 2023-10-17 10:08:00.0 +02:00
  }
}
user_inline App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent 20.0 MiB 0.85 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\User {#21760
    +avatar: null
    +cover: null
    +email: "kbin@j0h.nl"
    +username: "Sprite_tm"
    +roles: [
      "ROLE_ADMIN"
    ]
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: "Hi! I'm Sprite_tm. You may know me from sites like https://spritesmods.com."
    +lastActive: DateTime @1707547382 {#21807
      date: 2024-02-10 07:43:02.0 +01:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: true
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#21809 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#21811 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#21813 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#21815 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#21817 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#21819 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#21821 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#21823 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#21825 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#21827 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#21829 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#21831 …}
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    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#21835 …}
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    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#21839 …}
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    +apInboxUrl: null
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    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1686560440 {#21808
      date: 2023-06-12 11:00:40.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserInlineComponent {#21778
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    +cover: null
    +email: "kbin@j0h.nl"
    +username: "Sprite_tm"
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    ]
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: "Hi! I'm Sprite_tm. You may know me from sites like https://spritesmods.com."
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      date: 2024-02-10 07:43:02.0 +01:00
    }
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    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: true
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
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    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#21811 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#21813 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#21815 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#21817 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#21819 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#21821 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#21823 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#21825 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#21827 …}
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    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#21861 …}
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    +apInboxUrl: null
    +apDomain: null
    +apPreferredUsername: null
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      """
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      U45ZxOEnTM9GSbe2y48JSnUCAwEAAQ==\r\n
      -----END PUBLIC KEY-----
      """
    +apFetchedAt: null
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1686560440 {#21808
      date: 2023-06-12 11:00:40.0 +02:00
    }
    +__isInitialized__: true
     …2
  }
  +showAvatar: true
}
related_magazines App\Twig\Components\RelatedMagazinesComponent 20.0 MiB 7.25 ms
Input props
[
  "magazine" => "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
  "tag" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\RelatedMagazinesComponent {#21969
  +limit: 4
  +tag: null
  +magazine: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
  +type: "magazine"
  +title: "related_magazines"
  +refreshedRandom: false
  -repository: App\Repository\MagazineRepository {#389 …}
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
}
active_users App\Twig\Components\ActiveUsersComponent 20.0 MiB 18.55 ms
Input props
[
  "magazine" => App\Entity\Magazine {#306
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
    +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
    +title: "daystrominstitute"
    +description: """
      [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
      \n
      Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
      \n
      Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
      \n
      ##### **Rules**\n
      \n
      **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
      \n
      All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
      \n
      **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
      \n
      This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
      \n
      **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
      \n
      Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
      \n
      **4. Assume good faith.**\n
      \n
      Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
      \n
      **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
      \n
      Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
      \n
      **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
      \n
      Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
      \n
      #### **Episode Guides**\n
      \n
      The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
      \n
      - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
      - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
      - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
      - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
      - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
      - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
      - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 1
    +entryCount: 30
    +entryCommentCount: 161
    +postCount: 0
    +postCommentCount: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729204881 {#314
      date: 2024-10-18 00:41:21.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#278 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#274 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#263 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#221 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#179 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#241 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#158 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#144 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#122 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#112 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#101 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#88 …}
    -id: 60
    +apId: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
    +apProfileId: "https://startrek.website/c/daystrominstitute"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://startrek.website/c/daystrominstitute"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://startrek.website/c/daystrominstitute/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://startrek.website/inbox"
    +apDomain: "startrek.website"
    +apPreferredUsername: "daystrominstitute"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728907748 {#315
      date: 2024-10-14 14:09:08.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697530080 {#309
      date: 2023-10-17 10:08:00.0 +02:00
    }
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\ActiveUsersComponent {#22095
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
    +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
    +title: "daystrominstitute"
    +description: """
      [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
      \n
      Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
      \n
      Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
      \n
      ##### **Rules**\n
      \n
      **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
      \n
      All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
      \n
      **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
      \n
      This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
      \n
      **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
      \n
      Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
      \n
      **4. Assume good faith.**\n
      \n
      Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
      \n
      **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
      \n
      Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
      \n
      **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
      \n
      Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
      \n
      #### **Episode Guides**\n
      \n
      The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
      \n
      - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
      - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
      - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
      - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
      - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
      - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
      - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 1
    +entryCount: 30
    +entryCommentCount: 161
    +postCount: 0
    +postCommentCount: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729204881 {#314
      date: 2024-10-18 00:41:21.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#278 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#274 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#263 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#221 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#179 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#241 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#158 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#144 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#122 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#112 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#101 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#88 …}
    -id: 60
    +apId: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
    +apProfileId: "https://startrek.website/c/daystrominstitute"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://startrek.website/c/daystrominstitute"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://startrek.website/c/daystrominstitute/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://startrek.website/inbox"
    +apDomain: "startrek.website"
    +apPreferredUsername: "daystrominstitute"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728907748 {#315
      date: 2024-10-14 14:09:08.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697530080 {#309
      date: 2023-10-17 10:08:00.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  -userRepository: App\Repository\UserRepository {#603 …}
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 20.0 MiB 0.32 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#2214
    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2213 …}
    +cover: null
    +email: "Corgana@startrek.website"
    +username: "@Corgana@startrek.website"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: """
      /r/StarTrek founder and primary steward from 2008-2021\n
      \n
      Currently on the board of directors for StarTrek.website
      """
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729479179 {#2120
      date: 2024-10-21 04:52:59.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2225 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2231 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2229 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2252 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2189 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2311 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2293 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2309 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2302 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2320 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2322 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2312 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2307 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2308 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2304 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2319 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2318 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2316 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2294 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2296 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2281 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2280 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2278 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2279 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2277 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2220 …}
    -id: 28435
    -password: "$2y$13$lw0Ne9ClfN.mQasXSVxnL.fO9SfD38/krrhOGJVRrN82qZhjwq8QO"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2222 …}
    +apId: "Corgana@startrek.website"
    +apProfileId: "https://startrek.website/u/Corgana"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://startrek.website/u/Corgana"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://startrek.website/inbox"
    +apDomain: "startrek.website"
    +apPreferredUsername: "Corgana"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728312694 {#2161
      date: 2024-10-07 16:51:34.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689421565 {#2160
      date: 2023-07-15 13:46:05.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "width" => 65
  "height" => 65
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#22151
  +width: 65
  +height: 65
  +user: App\Entity\User {#2214
    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2213 …}
    +cover: null
    +email: "Corgana@startrek.website"
    +username: "@Corgana@startrek.website"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: """
      /r/StarTrek founder and primary steward from 2008-2021\n
      \n
      Currently on the board of directors for StarTrek.website
      """
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729479179 {#2120
      date: 2024-10-21 04:52:59.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2225 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2231 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2229 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2252 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2189 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2311 …}
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    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2302 …}
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    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2308 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2304 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2319 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2318 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2316 …}
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    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2296 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2281 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2280 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2278 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2279 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2277 …}
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    -id: 28435
    -password: "$2y$13$lw0Ne9ClfN.mQasXSVxnL.fO9SfD38/krrhOGJVRrN82qZhjwq8QO"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2222 …}
    +apId: "Corgana@startrek.website"
    +apProfileId: "https://startrek.website/u/Corgana"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://startrek.website/u/Corgana"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://startrek.website/inbox"
    +apDomain: "startrek.website"
    +apPreferredUsername: "Corgana"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728312694 {#2161
      date: 2024-10-07 16:51:34.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689421565 {#2160
      date: 2023-07-15 13:46:05.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +asLink: true
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 20.0 MiB 0.20 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#2037
    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2144 …}
    +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2075 …}
    +email: "ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
    +username: "@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: """
      [Mastodon](https://mstdn.ca/@ValueSubtracted)\n
      \n
      *Have you ever considered that the Prime Directive is not only not ethical, but also illogical, and perhaps morally indefensible?*
      """
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729527982 {#1383
      date: 2024-10-21 18:26:22.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
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    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2061 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2084 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2076 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2083 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2085 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2062 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2077 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2063 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2064 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2088 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2087 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2086 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2093 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2094 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2346 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2347 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2344 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2042 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2060 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2331 …}
    -id: 70867
    -password: "$2y$13$weOVJncYRnZRqbiKGTaxK.0e7QlwXXDTYSZMRcRsm.U7XR2Z5jACC"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2289 …}
    +apId: "ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
    +apProfileId: "https://startrek.website/u/ValueSubtracted"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://startrek.website/u/ValueSubtracted"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://startrek.website/inbox"
    +apDomain: "startrek.website"
    +apPreferredUsername: "ValueSubtracted"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728094376 {#2022
      date: 2024-10-05 04:12:56.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699046482 {#2018
      date: 2023-11-03 22:21:22.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  "width" => 65
  "height" => 65
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#22548
  +width: 65
  +height: 65
  +user: App\Entity\User {#2037
    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2144 …}
    +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2075 …}
    +email: "ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
    +username: "@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: """
      [Mastodon](https://mstdn.ca/@ValueSubtracted)\n
      \n
      *Have you ever considered that the Prime Directive is not only not ethical, but also illogical, and perhaps morally indefensible?*
      """
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729527982 {#1383
      date: 2024-10-21 18:26:22.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
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    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
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    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
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    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2061 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2084 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2076 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2083 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2085 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2062 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2077 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2063 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2064 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2088 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2087 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2086 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2093 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2094 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2140 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2133 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2131 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2138 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2345 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2330 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2346 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2347 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2344 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2042 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2060 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2331 …}
    -id: 70867
    -password: "$2y$13$weOVJncYRnZRqbiKGTaxK.0e7QlwXXDTYSZMRcRsm.U7XR2Z5jACC"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2289 …}
    +apId: "ValueSubtracted@startrek.website"
    +apProfileId: "https://startrek.website/u/ValueSubtracted"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://startrek.website/u/ValueSubtracted"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://startrek.website/inbox"
    +apDomain: "startrek.website"
    +apPreferredUsername: "ValueSubtracted"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728094376 {#2022
      date: 2024-10-05 04:12:56.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699046482 {#2018
      date: 2023-11-03 22:21:22.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  +asLink: true
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 20.0 MiB 0.45 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#22118
    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#22125 …}
    +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#22128 …}
    +email: "Kolanaki@yiffit.net"
    +username: "@Kolanaki@yiffit.net"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: """
      I’m just a weird, furry, pan guy (cis he/him). I also have a big, blue username.\n
      \n
      Currently on Earth for 8 years ensuring steps to unite humanity and usher us into the galactic civilization just so I can see my boyfriend again.
      """
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729516696 {#22122
      date: 2024-10-21 15:18:16.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22127 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22124 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22117 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22135 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22132 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22140 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22137 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22145 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22147 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22149 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22413 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22407 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22292 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22281 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22415 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22414 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22411 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22408 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22405 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22404 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22290 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22397 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22395 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22393 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22391 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22389 …}
    -id: 19404
    -password: "$2y$13$DRFjFSw/VUspNOL4ET1yOO83PVFS8VkYHcpdXTfon3GRbJ9zJ67zC"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22387 …}
    +apId: "Kolanaki@yiffit.net"
    +apProfileId: "https://yiffit.net/u/Kolanaki"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://yiffit.net/u/Kolanaki"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://yiffit.net/inbox"
    +apDomain: "yiffit.net"
    +apPreferredUsername: "Kolanaki"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1729550162 {#22121
      date: 2024-10-22 00:36:02.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1688587692 {#22123
      date: 2023-07-05 22:08:12.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "width" => 65
  "height" => 65
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#22604
  +width: 65
  +height: 65
  +user: App\Entity\User {#22118
    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#22125 …}
    +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#22128 …}
    +email: "Kolanaki@yiffit.net"
    +username: "@Kolanaki@yiffit.net"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: """
      I’m just a weird, furry, pan guy (cis he/him). I also have a big, blue username.\n
      \n
      Currently on Earth for 8 years ensuring steps to unite humanity and usher us into the galactic civilization just so I can see my boyfriend again.
      """
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729516696 {#22122
      date: 2024-10-21 15:18:16.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22127 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22124 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22117 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22135 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22132 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22140 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22137 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22145 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22147 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22149 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22413 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22407 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22292 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22281 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22415 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22414 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22411 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22408 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22405 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22404 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22290 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22397 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22395 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22393 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22391 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22389 …}
    -id: 19404
    -password: "$2y$13$DRFjFSw/VUspNOL4ET1yOO83PVFS8VkYHcpdXTfon3GRbJ9zJ67zC"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22387 …}
    +apId: "Kolanaki@yiffit.net"
    +apProfileId: "https://yiffit.net/u/Kolanaki"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://yiffit.net/u/Kolanaki"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://yiffit.net/inbox"
    +apDomain: "yiffit.net"
    +apPreferredUsername: "Kolanaki"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1729550162 {#22121
      date: 2024-10-22 00:36:02.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1688587692 {#22123
      date: 2023-07-05 22:08:12.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +asLink: true
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 20.0 MiB 0.18 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#2173
    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2187 …}
    +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2175 …}
    +email: "charonn0@startrek.website"
    +username: "@charonn0@startrek.website"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: "*Seer* of the tapes! *Knower* of the episodes!"
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729510459 {#2147
      date: 2024-10-21 13:34:19.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2177 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2174 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2170 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2184 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2169 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1985 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1994 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2005 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1996 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1993 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1992 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2002 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2000 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2007 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1990 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2010 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2014 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2016 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2017 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1984 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1981 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1982 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1980 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2375 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2374 …}
    -id: 27898
    -password: "$2y$13$NrMXqNGHuVplBMxemd7Ry.Q.2wbwlzjsA.gPw0qMb7QReUb3zfDx."
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2362 …}
    +apId: "charonn0@startrek.website"
    +apProfileId: "https://startrek.website/u/charonn0"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://startrek.website/u/charonn0"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://startrek.website/inbox"
    +apDomain: "startrek.website"
    +apPreferredUsername: "charonn0"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1729501826 {#2145
      date: 2024-10-21 11:10:26.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689383385 {#2150
      date: 2023-07-15 03:09:45.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "width" => 65
  "height" => 65
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#22661
  +width: 65
  +height: 65
  +user: App\Entity\User {#2173
    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2187 …}
    +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2175 …}
    +email: "charonn0@startrek.website"
    +username: "@charonn0@startrek.website"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: "*Seer* of the tapes! *Knower* of the episodes!"
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729510459 {#2147
      date: 2024-10-21 13:34:19.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
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    +notifyOnNewPost: false
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    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2177 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2174 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2170 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2184 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2169 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2134 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1985 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1994 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2005 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1996 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1993 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1992 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2002 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2000 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2007 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1990 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2010 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2014 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2016 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2017 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1984 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1981 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1982 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#1980 …}
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    -id: 27898
    -password: "$2y$13$NrMXqNGHuVplBMxemd7Ry.Q.2wbwlzjsA.gPw0qMb7QReUb3zfDx."
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2362 …}
    +apId: "charonn0@startrek.website"
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    +apPublicUrl: "https://startrek.website/u/charonn0"
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    +apInboxUrl: "https://startrek.website/inbox"
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    +privateKey: null
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    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1729501826 {#2145
      date: 2024-10-21 11:10:26.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
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    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689383385 {#2150
      date: 2023-07-15 03:09:45.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +asLink: true
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 20.0 MiB 0.44 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#22324
    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#22321 …}
    +cover: null
    +email: "JWBananas@startrek.website"
    +username: "@JWBananas@startrek.website"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: """
      aka @JWBananas@lemmy.world\n
      \n
      aka @JWBananas@kbin.social
      """
    +lastActive: DateTime @1728910054 {#22325
      date: 2024-10-14 14:47:34.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22322 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22320 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22318 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22316 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22314 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22312 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22310 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22308 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22306 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22304 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22302 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22300 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22298 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22296 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22294 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22288 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22286 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22283 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22419 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22421 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22423 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22425 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22427 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22429 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22431 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22433 …}
    -id: 45158
    -password: "$2y$13$sT1hRh8gZvUZXPyrls5/T.s5xUOYPEu9Jsd.VTIQAuXfdyW/GIzhG"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22435 …}
    +apId: "JWBananas@startrek.website"
    +apProfileId: "https://startrek.website/u/JWBananas"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://startrek.website/u/JWBananas"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://startrek.website/inbox"
    +apDomain: "startrek.website"
    +apPreferredUsername: "JWBananas"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728897412 {#22326
      date: 2024-10-14 11:16:52.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1694057096 {#22323
      date: 2023-09-07 05:24:56.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "width" => 65
  "height" => 65
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#22717
  +width: 65
  +height: 65
  +user: App\Entity\User {#22324
    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#22321 …}
    +cover: null
    +email: "JWBananas@startrek.website"
    +username: "@JWBananas@startrek.website"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: """
      aka @JWBananas@lemmy.world\n
      \n
      aka @JWBananas@kbin.social
      """
    +lastActive: DateTime @1728910054 {#22325
      date: 2024-10-14 14:47:34.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22322 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22320 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22318 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22316 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22314 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22312 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22310 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22308 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22306 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22304 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22302 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22300 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22298 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22296 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22294 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22288 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22286 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22283 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22419 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22421 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22423 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22425 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22427 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22429 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22431 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22433 …}
    -id: 45158
    -password: "$2y$13$sT1hRh8gZvUZXPyrls5/T.s5xUOYPEu9Jsd.VTIQAuXfdyW/GIzhG"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22435 …}
    +apId: "JWBananas@startrek.website"
    +apProfileId: "https://startrek.website/u/JWBananas"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://startrek.website/u/JWBananas"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://startrek.website/inbox"
    +apDomain: "startrek.website"
    +apPreferredUsername: "JWBananas"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728897412 {#22326
      date: 2024-10-14 11:16:52.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1694057096 {#22323
      date: 2023-09-07 05:24:56.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +asLink: true
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 20.0 MiB 0.45 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#22384
    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#22381 …}
    +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#22382 …}
    +email: "princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone"
    +username: "@princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: """
      👽Dropped at birth from space to earth👽\n
      \n
      👽she/they👽
      """
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727678889 {#22383
      date: 2024-09-30 08:48:09.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22379 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22377 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22375 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22373 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22371 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22369 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22367 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22365 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22363 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22361 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22359 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22357 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22355 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22353 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22351 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22349 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22347 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22345 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22343 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22341 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22339 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22337 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22335 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22333 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22331 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22329 …}
    -id: 26374
    -password: "$2y$13$UnkU4UJ1sRqcruid8dwCMuKFdl3yCNfHaN8j1fVKwNuP.65aLgGlK"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22327 …}
    +apId: "princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/u/princessnorah"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/u/princessnorah"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.blahaj.zone"
    +apPreferredUsername: "princessnorah"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727462040 {#22386
      date: 2024-09-27 20:34:00.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689255128 {#22385
      date: 2023-07-13 15:32:08.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "width" => 65
  "height" => 65
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#22774
  +width: 65
  +height: 65
  +user: App\Entity\User {#22384
    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#22381 …}
    +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#22382 …}
    +email: "princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone"
    +username: "@princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: """
      👽Dropped at birth from space to earth👽\n
      \n
      👽she/they👽
      """
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727678889 {#22383
      date: 2024-09-30 08:48:09.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22379 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22377 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22375 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22373 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22371 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22369 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22367 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22365 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22363 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22361 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22359 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22357 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22355 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22353 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22351 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22349 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22347 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22345 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22343 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22341 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22339 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22337 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22335 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22333 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22331 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22329 …}
    -id: 26374
    -password: "$2y$13$UnkU4UJ1sRqcruid8dwCMuKFdl3yCNfHaN8j1fVKwNuP.65aLgGlK"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22327 …}
    +apId: "princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/u/princessnorah"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/u/princessnorah"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.blahaj.zone"
    +apPreferredUsername: "princessnorah"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1727462040 {#22386
      date: 2024-09-27 20:34:00.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689255128 {#22385
      date: 2023-07-13 15:32:08.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +asLink: true
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 20.0 MiB 0.46 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#22273
    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#22272 …}
    +cover: null
    +email: "Seraph@kbin.social"
    +username: "@Seraph@kbin.social"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: "Words go here"
    +lastActive: DateTime @1712198993 {#22276
      date: 2024-04-04 04:49:53.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22271 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22269 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22267 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22265 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22263 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22261 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22259 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22257 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22255 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22253 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22251 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22249 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22247 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22245 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22243 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22241 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22239 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22237 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22235 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22233 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22231 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22229 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22227 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22225 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22223 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22221 …}
    -id: 6533
    -password: "$2y$13$l3KNmGKfcpNyPzmxLKEwqOcPFcB53hs.G1daQAMHT9M2ehkonZZf."
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22219 …}
    +apId: "Seraph@kbin.social"
    +apProfileId: "https://kbin.social/u/Seraph"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://kbin.social/u/Seraph"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://kbin.social/u/Seraph/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://kbin.social/f/inbox"
    +apDomain: "kbin.social"
    +apPreferredUsername: "Seraph"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1711916518 {#22275
      date: 2024-03-31 22:21:58.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687390363 {#22274
      date: 2023-06-22 01:32:43.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "width" => 65
  "height" => 65
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#22831
  +width: 65
  +height: 65
  +user: App\Entity\User {#22273
    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#22272 …}
    +cover: null
    +email: "Seraph@kbin.social"
    +username: "@Seraph@kbin.social"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: "Words go here"
    +lastActive: DateTime @1712198993 {#22276
      date: 2024-04-04 04:49:53.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
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    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22271 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22269 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22267 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22265 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22263 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22261 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22259 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22257 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22255 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22253 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22251 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22249 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22247 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22245 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22243 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22241 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22239 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22237 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22235 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22233 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22231 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22229 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22227 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22225 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22223 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22221 …}
    -id: 6533
    -password: "$2y$13$l3KNmGKfcpNyPzmxLKEwqOcPFcB53hs.G1daQAMHT9M2ehkonZZf."
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22219 …}
    +apId: "Seraph@kbin.social"
    +apProfileId: "https://kbin.social/u/Seraph"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://kbin.social/u/Seraph"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://kbin.social/u/Seraph/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://kbin.social/f/inbox"
    +apDomain: "kbin.social"
    +apPreferredUsername: "Seraph"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1711916518 {#22275
      date: 2024-03-31 22:21:58.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687390363 {#22274
      date: 2023-06-22 01:32:43.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +asLink: true
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 20.0 MiB 0.34 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#22214
    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#22213 …}
    +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#22212 …}
    +email: "FaceDeer@kbin.social"
    +username: "@FaceDeer@kbin.social"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: """
      Basically [a deer with a human face](https://i.imgur.com/FlzELAa.png). Despite probably being some sort of magical nature spirit, his interests are primarily in technology and politics and science fiction.\n
      \n
      Spent many years [on Reddit](https://www.reddit.com/user/FaceDeer/) and is now exploring new vistas in social media.
      """
    +lastActive: DateTime @1712692377 {#22217
      date: 2024-04-09 21:52:57.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22211 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22209 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22207 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22205 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22203 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22201 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22199 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22197 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22195 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22193 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22191 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22189 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22187 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22185 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22183 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22181 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22179 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22177 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22175 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22173 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22171 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22169 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22167 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22165 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22163 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22113 …}
    -id: 11783
    -password: "$2y$13$91dE1SHe2Jj0GjNUVPgbn.Z/NUw7ZknOkP4GRZTti43lbFQgYUlP2"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22115 …}
    +apId: "FaceDeer@kbin.social"
    +apProfileId: "https://kbin.social/u/FaceDeer"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://kbin.social/u/FaceDeer"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://kbin.social/u/FaceDeer/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://kbin.social/f/inbox"
    +apDomain: "kbin.social"
    +apPreferredUsername: "FaceDeer"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1710541404 {#22216
      date: 2024-03-15 23:23:24.0 +01:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687991932 {#22215
      date: 2023-06-29 00:38:52.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "width" => 65
  "height" => 65
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#22888
  +width: 65
  +height: 65
  +user: App\Entity\User {#22214
    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#22213 …}
    +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#22212 …}
    +email: "FaceDeer@kbin.social"
    +username: "@FaceDeer@kbin.social"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: """
      Basically [a deer with a human face](https://i.imgur.com/FlzELAa.png). Despite probably being some sort of magical nature spirit, his interests are primarily in technology and politics and science fiction.\n
      \n
      Spent many years [on Reddit](https://www.reddit.com/user/FaceDeer/) and is now exploring new vistas in social media.
      """
    +lastActive: DateTime @1712692377 {#22217
      date: 2024-04-09 21:52:57.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22211 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22209 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22207 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22205 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22203 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22201 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22199 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22197 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22195 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22193 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22191 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22189 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22187 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22185 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22183 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22181 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22179 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22177 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22175 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22173 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22171 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22169 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22167 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22165 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22163 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22113 …}
    -id: 11783
    -password: "$2y$13$91dE1SHe2Jj0GjNUVPgbn.Z/NUw7ZknOkP4GRZTti43lbFQgYUlP2"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22115 …}
    +apId: "FaceDeer@kbin.social"
    +apProfileId: "https://kbin.social/u/FaceDeer"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://kbin.social/u/FaceDeer"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://kbin.social/u/FaceDeer/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://kbin.social/f/inbox"
    +apDomain: "kbin.social"
    +apPreferredUsername: "FaceDeer"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1710541404 {#22216
      date: 2024-03-15 23:23:24.0 +01:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1687991932 {#22215
      date: 2023-06-29 00:38:52.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +asLink: true
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 20.0 MiB 0.17 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#2670
    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2671 …}
    +cover: null
    +email: "teft@lemmy.world"
    +username: "@teft@lemmy.world"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: "Just a bridgeman doing his thing."
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729463644 {#2654
      date: 2024-10-21 00:34:04.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2672 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2674 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2676 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2678 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2680 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2682 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2684 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2686 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2688 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2690 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2692 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2694 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2696 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2698 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2700 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2702 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2704 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2706 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2708 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2710 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2712 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2714 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2716 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2718 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2720 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2722 …}
    -id: 21016
    -password: "$2y$13$gEKult8ntH6SBV8e/Gcl9edSmSoyEa/BZ6LwP3YGxnPeUhQJMU4Lm"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2724 …}
    +apId: "teft@lemmy.world"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/u/teft"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/u/teft"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
    +apPreferredUsername: "teft"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1690765187 {#2655
      date: 2023-07-31 02:59:47.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689020848 {#2656
      date: 2023-07-10 22:27:28.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  "width" => 65
  "height" => 65
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#22945
  +width: 65
  +height: 65
  +user: App\Entity\User {#2670
    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#2671 …}
    +cover: null
    +email: "teft@lemmy.world"
    +username: "@teft@lemmy.world"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: "Just a bridgeman doing his thing."
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729463644 {#2654
      date: 2024-10-21 00:34:04.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: true
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: false
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: false
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2672 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2674 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2676 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2678 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2680 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2682 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2684 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2686 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2688 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2690 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2692 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2694 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2696 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2698 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2700 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2702 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2704 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2706 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2708 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2710 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2712 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2714 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2716 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2718 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2720 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2722 …}
    -id: 21016
    -password: "$2y$13$gEKult8ntH6SBV8e/Gcl9edSmSoyEa/BZ6LwP3YGxnPeUhQJMU4Lm"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#2724 …}
    +apId: "teft@lemmy.world"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.world/u/teft"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.world/u/teft"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.world/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.world"
    +apPreferredUsername: "teft"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1690765187 {#2655
      date: 2023-07-31 02:59:47.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1689020848 {#2656
      date: 2023-07-10 22:27:28.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  +asLink: true
}
user_avatar App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent 20.0 MiB 0.36 ms
Input props
[
  "user" => App\Entity\User {#22440
    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#22441 …}
    +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#22442 …}
    +email: "shnizmuffin@lemmy.inbutts.lol"
    +username: "@shnizmuffin@lemmy.inbutts.lol"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: "CTRL+Z"
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727141953 {#22439
      date: 2024-09-24 03:39:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22443 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22445 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22447 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22449 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22451 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22453 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22455 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22457 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22459 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22461 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22463 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22465 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22467 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22469 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22471 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22473 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22475 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22477 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22479 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22481 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22483 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22485 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22487 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22489 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22491 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22493 …}
    -id: 74211
    -password: "$2y$13$sz4t/IyLNeo2UjWHgzkdyuXXT4co954Uw6OcOf4N1bpjEaujvO.9S"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22495 …}
    +apId: "shnizmuffin@lemmy.inbutts.lol"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.inbutts.lol/u/shnizmuffin"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.inbutts.lol/u/shnizmuffin"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.inbutts.lol/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.inbutts.lol"
    +apPreferredUsername: "shnizmuffin"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728628116 {#22438
      date: 2024-10-11 08:28:36.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699697285 {#22437
      date: 2023-11-11 11:08:05.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  "width" => 65
  "height" => 65
  "asLink" => true
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\UserAvatarComponent {#23001
  +width: 65
  +height: 65
  +user: App\Entity\User {#22440
    +avatar: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#22441 …}
    +cover: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#22442 …}
    +email: "shnizmuffin@lemmy.inbutts.lol"
    +username: "@shnizmuffin@lemmy.inbutts.lol"
    +roles: []
    +followersCount: 0
    +homepage: "front"
    +about: "CTRL+Z"
    +lastActive: DateTime @1727141953 {#22439
      date: 2024-09-24 03:39:13.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +fields: null
    +oauthGithubId: null
    +oauthGoogleId: null
    +oauthFacebookId: null
    +oauthKeycloakId: null
    +hideAdult: true
    +showSubscribedUsers: true
    +showSubscribedMagazines: true
    +showSubscribedDomains: true
    +preferredLanguages: []
    +featuredMagazines: null
    +showProfileSubscriptions: false
    +showProfileFollowings: true
    +markNewComments: false
    +notifyOnNewEntry: false
    +notifyOnNewEntryReply: true
    +notifyOnNewEntryCommentReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPost: false
    +notifyOnNewPostReply: true
    +notifyOnNewPostCommentReply: true
    +addMentionsEntries: false
    +addMentionsPosts: true
    +isBanned: false
    +isVerified: false
    +isDeleted: false
    +isBot: false
    +spamProtection: true
    +customCss: null
    +ignoreMagazinesCustomCss: false
    +moderatorTokens: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22443 …}
    +magazineOwnershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22445 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22447 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22449 …}
    +entryVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22451 …}
    +entryComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22453 …}
    +entryCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22455 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22457 …}
    +postVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22459 …}
    +postComments: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22461 …}
    +postCommentVotes: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22463 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22465 …}
    +subscribedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22467 …}
    +follows: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22469 …}
    +followers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22471 …}
    +blocks: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22473 …}
    +blockers: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22475 …}
    +blockedMagazines: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22477 …}
    +blockedDomains: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22479 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22481 …}
    +favourites: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22483 …}
    +violations: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22485 …}
    +notifications: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22487 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22489 …}
    +subscribedCategories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22491 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22493 …}
    -id: 74211
    -password: "$2y$13$sz4t/IyLNeo2UjWHgzkdyuXXT4co954Uw6OcOf4N1bpjEaujvO.9S"
    -totpSecret: null
    -totpBackupCodes: []
    -oAuth2UserConsents: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#22495 …}
    +apId: "shnizmuffin@lemmy.inbutts.lol"
    +apProfileId: "https://lemmy.inbutts.lol/u/shnizmuffin"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://lemmy.inbutts.lol/u/shnizmuffin"
    +apFollowersUrl: null
    +apInboxUrl: "https://lemmy.inbutts.lol/inbox"
    +apDomain: "lemmy.inbutts.lol"
    +apPreferredUsername: "shnizmuffin"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: false
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728628116 {#22438
      date: 2024-10-11 08:28:36.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1699697285 {#22437
      date: 2023-11-11 11:08:05.0 +01:00
    }
  }
  +asLink: true
}
related_categories App\Twig\Components\RelatedCategoriesComponent 20.0 MiB 3.56 ms
Input props
[
  "magazine" => "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
  "tag" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\RelatedCategoriesComponent {#23063
  +limit: 4
  +tag: null
  +magazine: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
  +type: "related"
  +title: "related_categories"
  +refreshedRandom: false
  -repository: App\Repository\CategoryRepository {#23064 …}
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
}
related_posts App\Twig\Components\RelatedPostsComponent 20.0 MiB 4.79 ms
Input props
[
  "magazine" => "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
  "tag" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\RelatedPostsComponent {#23140
  +limit: 4
  +tag: null
  +magazine: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
  +type: "magazine"
  +post: null
  +title: "related_posts"
  +refreshedRandom: false
  -repository: App\Repository\PostRepository {#23141 …}
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -mentionManager: App\Service\MentionManager {#3260 …}
}
related_entries App\Twig\Components\RelatedEntriesComponent 20.0 MiB 18.29 ms
Input props
[
  "magazine" => "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
  "tag" => null
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\RelatedEntriesComponent {#23259
  +limit: 4
  +tag: null
  +magazine: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
  +type: "magazine"
  +entry: null
  +title: "related_entries"
  +refreshedRandom: false
  -repository: App\Repository\EntryRepository {#23261 …}
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -mentionManager: App\Service\MentionManager {#3260 …}
}
support_us_block App\Twig\Components\SupportUsBlock 20.0 MiB 0.37 ms
Input props
[]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\SupportUsBlock {#23317
  +subject: ? App\Entity\Contracts\VotableInterface
  +url: ? string
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -cache: Symfony\Component\Cache\Adapter\TraceableTagAwareAdapter {#600 …}
  -requestStack: Symfony\Component\HttpFoundation\RequestStack {#1328 …}
  -partnerBlockRepository: App\Repository\PartnerBlockRepository {#23316 …}
}
featured_magazines App\Twig\Components\FeaturedMagazinesComponent 20.0 MiB 2.01 ms
Input props
[
  "magazine" => App\Entity\Magazine {#306
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
    +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
    +title: "daystrominstitute"
    +description: """
      [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
      \n
      Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
      \n
      Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
      \n
      ##### **Rules**\n
      \n
      **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
      \n
      All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
      \n
      **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
      \n
      This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
      \n
      **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
      \n
      Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
      \n
      **4. Assume good faith.**\n
      \n
      Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
      \n
      **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
      \n
      Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
      \n
      **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
      \n
      Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
      \n
      #### **Episode Guides**\n
      \n
      The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
      \n
      - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
      - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
      - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
      - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
      - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
      - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
      - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 1
    +entryCount: 30
    +entryCommentCount: 161
    +postCount: 0
    +postCommentCount: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729204881 {#314
      date: 2024-10-18 00:41:21.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#278 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#274 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#263 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#221 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#179 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#241 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#158 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#144 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#122 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#112 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#101 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#88 …}
    -id: 60
    +apId: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
    +apProfileId: "https://startrek.website/c/daystrominstitute"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://startrek.website/c/daystrominstitute"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://startrek.website/c/daystrominstitute/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://startrek.website/inbox"
    +apDomain: "startrek.website"
    +apPreferredUsername: "daystrominstitute"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728907748 {#315
      date: 2024-10-14 14:09:08.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697530080 {#309
      date: 2023-10-17 10:08:00.0 +02:00
    }
  }
]
Attributes
[]
Component
App\Twig\Components\FeaturedMagazinesComponent {#23396
  +magazine: App\Entity\Magazine {#306
    +icon: Proxies\__CG__\App\Entity\Image {#287 …}
    +name: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
    +title: "daystrominstitute"
    +description: """
      [Welcome to Daystrom Institute!](https://startrek.website/post/73)\n
      \n
      Serious, in-depth discussion about *Star Trek* from both in-universe and real world perspectives.\n
      \n
      Read more about [how to comment at Daystrom](https://startrek.website/post/175954).\n
      \n
      ##### **Rules**\n
      \n
      **1. Explain your reasoning**\n
      \n
      All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.\n
      \n
      **2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.**\n
      \n
      This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in [Risa](https://startrek.website/c/risa).\n
      \n
      **3. Be diplomatic.**\n
      \n
      Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make *Star Trek.* Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.\n
      \n
      **4. Assume good faith.**\n
      \n
      Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”\n
      \n
      **5. Tag spoilers.**\n
      \n
      Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.\n
      \n
      **6. Stay on-topic.**\n
      \n
      Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.\n
      \n
      #### **Episode Guides**\n
      \n
      The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:\n
      \n
      - [Kraetos’ guide to Star Trek (the original series)](https://startrek.website/post/760)\n
      - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Animated Series](https://startrek.website/post/765)\n
      - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: The Next Generation](https://startrek.website/post/768)\n
      - [Algernon_Asimov’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/776)\n
      - [Darth_Rasputin32898’s guide to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine](https://startrek.website/post/772)\n
      - [OpticalData’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/780)\n
      - [petrus4’s guide to Star Trek: Voyager](https://startrek.website/post/781)
      """
    +rules: null
    +subscriptionsCount: 1
    +entryCount: 30
    +entryCommentCount: 161
    +postCount: 0
    +postCommentCount: 0
    +isAdult: false
    +customCss: null
    +lastActive: DateTime @1729204881 {#314
      date: 2024-10-18 00:41:21.0 +02:00
    }
    +markedForDeletionAt: null
    +tags: null
    +moderators: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#278 …}
    +ownershipRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#274 …}
    +moderatorRequests: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#263 …}
    +entries: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#221 …}
    +posts: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#179 …}
    +subscriptions: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#241 …}
    +bans: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#158 …}
    +reports: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#144 …}
    +badges: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#122 …}
    +logs: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#112 …}
    +awards: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#101 …}
    +categories: Doctrine\ORM\PersistentCollection {#88 …}
    -id: 60
    +apId: "daystrominstitute@startrek.website"
    +apProfileId: "https://startrek.website/c/daystrominstitute"
    +apPublicUrl: "https://startrek.website/c/daystrominstitute"
    +apFollowersUrl: "https://startrek.website/c/daystrominstitute/followers"
    +apInboxUrl: "https://startrek.website/inbox"
    +apDomain: "startrek.website"
    +apPreferredUsername: "daystrominstitute"
    +apDiscoverable: true
    +apManuallyApprovesFollowers: null
    +privateKey: null
    +publicKey: null
    +apFetchedAt: DateTime @1728907748 {#315
      date: 2024-10-14 14:09:08.0 +02:00
    }
    +apDeletedAt: null
    +apTimeoutAt: null
    +visibility: "visible             "
    +createdAt: DateTimeImmutable @1697530080 {#309
      date: 2023-10-17 10:08:00.0 +02:00
    }
  }
  -twig: Twig\Environment {#1252 …}
  -repository: App\Repository\MagazineRepository {#389 …}
}