github.com

the_post_of_tom_joad, to privacy in Privacy Concerns on Lemmy: A Call for More User Control

Nope, reading people’s history is the number one reason i liked Reddit and now lemmy. It’s just anonymous enough that you can keep your private life separate, and having a comment history stands in as an online barometer of who the other people your talking to are generally like

Cameri, to piracy in Tachiyomi replacement is out
@Cameri@lemmy.world avatar

Cut off one head of the Hydra and another two grow in its place.

lido, to piracy in PSA: The popular leech client Stremio got an upgrade to spoof other clients than TorrentStorm.

I don’t understand what’s going on. Can someone ELI5?

WarmApplePieShrek,

Torrents are people sharing files with each other, uploading and downloading. Stremio downloads, but never uploads. And now it doesn’t want you to know who’s using it, because people kept banning it.

lido,

Got it. Thanks!

IlIllIIIllIlIlIIlI,

I though that streamio uploads too. Because a few months ago my internet browsing was slow, after I closed streamio the issue stopped.

neosheo, (edited )
@neosheo@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

I dont think stremio does either technically. Stremio it’s typically used as a front end application for debrid services. Mainly real debrid, all debrid and premiumize.

I believe the 2 debrids only download, but i think premiumize seeds, but not 100% sure.

That being said if a file gets added to these services it is not constantly leeching like op said. The real debid servers for example will download a torrent and distrubute the downloaded file throughout their cdn, leaving it in their cache for 30 days. I believe each time it is accessed by a user that 30 day clock is reset.

Stremio typically only shows cached torrents in there app so in order for a user to force a download they would need to go to their debrid provider directly and add the torrent causing it to get added to the cache.

Is it bad for the torrenting network, yes because they don’t seed, is stremio using up all of seeders bandwidth, probably not

IlIllIIIllIlIlIIlI,

What if im not using real debrid in streamio?

neosheo,
@neosheo@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Not 100% sure but since they are free links they wont come from torrents, at least not in the same way. They are being scraped from streaming websites.

Whetger or not the original uploaded got them from a torrent is unknown but they would have just downloaded it once and uploaded so very different in its effect on torrenting.

Those sites have always coexisted with torrents because they are often of low quality whereas torrents are higher quality

IlIllIIIllIlIlIIlI,

In Stremio Im using torrent plugins, not streaming websites.

neosheo,
@neosheo@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Gotcha, i only use the debrid links so my knowledge on this was how cinemahd used to do it in the past

neosheo,
@neosheo@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

But to answer your question, if there is a plugin with a torrent client included then it is most likely set up to download the files sequentially to allow streaming but i would assume it is set to turn upload off (so it leeches) because your tv would probably buffer more if it used additional bandwith

If thats the case (not 100%) then that may be why they are trying to block stremio

hh93,

My girlfriend got a legal claim for using stremio when her vpn failed which in Germany is only possible if you actively upload something so I’d say it does that

neosheo,
@neosheo@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Ok, maybe stremio has a torrent client compiled in or maybe a plugin i dont use has one then.

However, if you turn off upload in your torrent client you can still get caught, uploading isnt want triggers it, connecting to peers with your exposed ip triggers

hh93,

Yeah but afaik downloading in Germany isn’t against the law since it’s allowed to download a “backup copy” of things you actually own legally so it’s pretty much never enforced. The only way people in Germany get sued is for uploading but then a couple of bytes is already enough in many cases

neosheo,
@neosheo@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

I can’t speak for germany but where i live downloaders dont ever get sued, they just get complaints from isps and if they get too many they may be shut off or have their speed throttled.

Uploaders get sued because its too costly and time consuming to go after the downloaders

ShinyRanger,

Not using a debrid service in Germany is crazy

DroneRights,

Torrenting is a technology where a network of ordinary people share a file in tiny pieces all together. There’s no central server, you connect to one, ten, or a hundred other computers who each give you part of the file.

Torrenting only works if people are uploading the file as well as downloading it. Giving a file to others is called seeding, and taking a file from others without giving back is called leeching. Most people are peers, who take the same amount they give. Ideally, everyone would be a peer, but since some people are leeches, we also need seeders.

I’m not familiar with this stremio app, but if it does what I think it does, then it takes from the network without giving back and it can now pretend to be a different client to sneak onto the network. If enough stremio users watch a show, it’ll become unavailable to other pirates.

neosheo,
@neosheo@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Not 100%, stremio is a front end for a debrid service and the debrid service will download the torrent and add it to their cache and stremio users will access the downloaded file directly from the debrid services’ servers.

Only the initially download may cause a slow down of torrents. Idk exactly how they distribute the file to their cdn. If all the servers in their cdn download the same file at 1 time it may cause a temporary slow down of torrents but i would assume they don’t download directly on each server and instead download on some close to the requesting user and then use some kind of file synchronization technique to propogate the file through the network.

Their cache is pretty huge and for most shows they already have tons of links cached and wouldn’t need to keep downloading very often.

Stremio isn’t the first front end for these services and like all the rest of them it will eventually get shutdown too and this will continue long after stremio.

The real.issuein my opinion isnt bandwidth hogging by debrid services its that if everyone migrates to them that the majority of the network will be leechers. With less seeders the remaining seeders will need more powerful computers to support the torrents and if they cant afford the upgrade them the whole system could collapse

DroneRights,

A lot of the shows I watch aren’t popular to torrent. Infinity Train got taken down by Cartoon Network, and now it only exists for pirates. So pirates need to seed it so it can continue to exist in any form. Same for Generator Rex. I wanted to watch The Flying Nun, but it ran out of seeds and can’t be watched anymore. If a single leech downloads a show on the brink like Generator Rex, it could end up like The Flying Nun. Gone forever. I’m not worried about these popular new releases like Invincible or Loki, I’m worried about media preservation.

neosheo,
@neosheo@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

I’m not so sure that this would hurt those tho. These services would require their to be at least 1 seeder to be able to stream it, so they arent really taking the seeder away. Most likely the seeder dropped.

If anything this would help the seeder by offloading downloading of the show else where and providing a second place for the file. Typically if you see a low seeded content that you like, it would be courteous to seed it after downloading it

WarmApplePieShrek,

Stremio doesn’t seed after you download. It downloads, puts on the screen, and throws away.

neosheo,
@neosheo@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Yes, i get that the best option would be for stremio to seed it but i don’t see how it would be feasible considering the low storage capacities of tvs.

The reality is i dont think this will kill torturing because leechers have always existed piracy is about providing things for free to others, can we really expect all the people who can’t afford to buy the media to suddenly be able to afford a vpn, seedbox, storage?

Piracy is like tor network, volunteers are the backbone but most users are leechers. The network has been going strong for years with leechers and it wont die now

WarmApplePieShrek,

Just use real-debrid. It acts as a cache for you for $3/month. Leech off someone you pay to leech off.

WarmApplePieShrek,

Not 100% on the terminology. Peers are everyone connected. Seeders have 100% of the file, and leechers don’t. Leechers can be someone who stopped halfway and uploads the half they have, or someone who is still downloading, or someone who actually leeches.

arken, to privacy in Nitter is shutting down
rwhitisissle,

Probably lukewarm take: Social media shouldn’t be a utility because it provides no social value or improvement of quality of life in the same way other genuine public utilities like electricity, water, sewer services, or general access to the internet, might. It’s also putting the government in a position in which it functionally would have to provide a platform for everyone equally, Neo-Nazis, climate deniers, anti-vaccers, and every other person with “insert terrible belief here” included.

Ultimately, saying social media should be a public utility is like saying casinos and strip clubs should be public utilities. Just because it’s fun to use doesn’t mean it’s good for society or come anywhere close to meeting the definition for the level of necessity typically attached to something as a public utility.

actual_patience,

When businesses ask you to contact their help-desk via WhatsApp, it’s a utility. When people call and message friends, family, and colleagues almost exclusively on WhatsApp or Messenger, it’s a utility.

It’s also putting the government in a position in which it functionally would have to provide a platform for everyone equally, Neo-Nazis […]

Godwin’s Law People preaching [insert terrible belief] on a government platform would be removed and charged for hate speech just as much as they would be if preaching these things in public spaces. If your government gives people with terrible_belief.jpg the chance to preach on public property, that’s not a public property issue, that’s a government issue.

Ultimately, saying social media should be a public utility is like saying casinos and strip clubs should be public utilities.

No, it isn’t. If anything, turning certain popular social media apps into public utilities would limit them from being pure dopamine hits. Let other websites exist to fill the cesspool void. Not the one my grandma uses.

rwhitisissle, (edited )

When businesses ask you to contact their help-desk via WhatsApp, it’s a utility. When people call and message friends, family, and colleagues almost exclusively on WhatsApp or Messenger, it’s a utility.

Except…no, it’s not. That’s an extremely naive understanding of what a “public utility” is. A public utility is not defined by how many people use something. Public utilities are essential services that typically operate on economies of scale. That is to say services without realistic replacement and which have large upfront creation and maintenance costs and which only make sense to provide access to a large number of people. You can’t replace electricity with some alternate source of power. It’s electricity. Same for water. They’re fundamental services that are required for other services to exist. Without electricity you don’t have phone or internet. Without water you can’t have sewer systems or indoor plumbing.

WhatsApp, by comparison, is trivially easy to replace. A business chooses to use WhatsApp for customer service. They could just as easily setup a Discord server or just establish an 800 number for you to call. They have immediate drop-in replacements. Arguing otherwise is sort of like arguing that Coke should be considered a public utility because a business serves Coke products. They don’t have to serve Coke. They could serve Pepsi. Or anything else.

Also, your reasoning is kind of skewed, because in order to even use something like WhatsApp, you need other, already existing services. Namely internet access. It makes literally no sense to say “WhatsApp should be a utility” without first arguing that “internet access for all individuals at a national level should be a public utility.” Which I would personally argue is something that does qualify as a utility, far more than any specific social media services or app, and the fact that it isn’t is a huge problem for the United States.

Godwin’s Law People preaching [insert terrible belief] on a government platform would be removed and charged for hate speech just as much as they would be if preaching these things in public spaces.

Oh, okay, “Godwin’s Law” is it? Cool. Here’s an actual law. Like a literal piece of legislation that exists: it’s called the First Amendment. I don’t know if you’re just speaking from a non-American context, or just don’t know how “freedom of speech” is codified into law in the United States. Maybe you’re a kid or something and just haven’t learned that in school yet. But freedom of speech in public places is universally protected under the constitution. Like, there are still public Klan rallies in certain parts of the country. This is what allows those to happen. If the United States government maintained its own social media service, it would functionally not have the power to moderate any content that was not explicitly illegal. Bigotry and hate speech are not illegal under the constitution.

actual_patience,

First off, I think you are being very rude. I didn’t call you names or make assumptions, so please treat this with more respect than a Twitter thread.

WhatsApp, by comparison, is trivially easy to replace.

Olvid, a French alternative to WhatsApp, was made in 2019. It took a law passing last month banning all ministers from using non in-house messaging services to stop people from using WhatsApp. I wouldn’t consider that “trivially easy”.

Also, your reasoning is kind of skewed, because in order to even use something like WhatsApp, you need other, already existing services. Namely internet access.

You didn’t mention Internet access and so neither did I. I’m happy we both agree it should be a utility.

I don’t know if you’re just speaking from a non-American context, or just don’t know how “freedom of speech” is codified into law in the United States.

I already said this is a “government problem”. I said this in reference to the US government, because this isn’t really an issue for most countries :/

Nugelz, to piracy in Tachiyomi replacement is out

Anyone got any good extension repos? I’m more into western comics than manga

Vineyard8927,
Nugelz,

Thank you, have made a post this now

danyspin97, to privacy in Nitter is shutting down

I just see that more and more alternative interfaces for propretary social media are dying and that’s just sad.

Gooey0210,

Not really, we have great alternatives that are becoming more and more popular. Sent with Eternity from lemmy

LolaCat,

We should definitely bring signatures back Tryin to make a change :-\

SnotFlickerman, (edited ) to privacy in Privacy Concerns on Lemmy: A Call for More User Control
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

If you’re not running your own server privacy policies are not even worth the pixels they’re presented on.

Literally, you’re just taking a random person’s word for it (whoever the admin is). A website is a black box, you have no idea what’s going on on the back-end.

The only way to be in complete control of your user data is to run your own server and be literally the only user on it.

Even then, any public comments you make are, you know… public.

otp,

Even then, any public comments you make are, you know… public.

As they should be.

Public comments is how you can find patterns of sketchy user behaviour.

henfredemars,

Ask me no questions and I’ll tell you no lies. It asks much less of my instance admins if it’s understood that my information was never private to begin with.

morrowind,
@morrowind@lemmy.ml avatar

Well there’s still the legal threat. You have to trust someone, unless you’re creating your own hardware and never connecting to the internet

SnotFlickerman,
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

True! All your data will pass over other hardware owned by other people.

The only real online privacy is not connecting to the internet to begin with.

The whole system is based on trust.

Which is why I think some of these privacy demands are straight silly.

FutileRecipe,

All your data will pass over other hardware owned by other people. The only real online privacy is not connecting to the internet to begin with.

And now we’re entering into the realm of encryption, especially end-to-end. Generally speaking, just because you’re sending information that touches other people’s hardware, doesn’t mean it’s public and readable.

Danitos,

Even then, AMD, Intel and now Apple CPU chips are suspected to be backdored. NIST has been slow to adapt a standard post-quantun E2EE algorithm, with some rumours of self-sabotage mandated by NSA (like they have already done in the past). The Tor network is extremely vulnerable to traffic correlation by big parties.

Encryption theoretically gives you what you describe, but in reality you still need to put a lot of thrust in things like your own hardware.

LWD, (edited )

deleted_by_author

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  • SnotFlickerman, (edited )
    @SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    I think that’s worth considering: an open-source volunteer project requires and leaks way more data than a private corporation it’s mimicking.

    It couldn’t be that one has had loads of VC funding for *checks notes… 15 years. Whereas one has been barely funded for five years and has more people complaining than adding code.

    Actually, it makes perfect sense that an open source project that doesn’t have a big organization behind it isn’t going to have the same capability anywhere near as quickly. Reddit also makes money from advertising. The money for Lemmy is from donations and an abysmally small set of grants.

    Hell, Matrix, an actual open source communications protocol is 9 years old and they still haven’t gotten encrypted video group chats working properly and if I recall correctly still offload a lot of that to JitsiMeet. I was using Matrix/Riot.IM (now Element) in 2016 and it was garbage that barely worked, and updates constantly broke what previously worked, etc. It took time to become better and Matrix does have a whole ass organization backing it.

    For comparison, Lemmy has been around for about five years and they’ve had far less financial backing and developers contributing to the project. Matrix has governments like France and Germany lining up for services for private communications, which means they’ve literally got people paying them for the service of helping manage their Matrix servers. Lemmy doesn’t have the same advantages. They don’t have a service or ads to sell (no ads is part of the appeal.).

    For what its worth, Veilid exists, if you’re looking for a better framework to start with than ActivityPub.

    poVoq, to privacy in Simple Mobile Tools to be bought by ZipoApps
    @poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

    The f-droid version should be ok for now, but if you installed this from the malware distribution channel aka the Playstore I would recommend to deinstall them before the next update hits.

    henfredemars, (edited ) to privacy in Privacy Concerns on Lemmy: A Call for More User Control

    I prefer the complete lack of privacy settings because it is open and honest about the reality of what Lemmy is able to provide.

    Even if you’re running your own instance, you are necessarily submitting your data to another party. I don’t have to trust the platform as much when my data isn’t private. It’s much easier to engineer a system around that assumption.

    If we suppose that anything I submit to Lemmy is submitted to the public, I can’t be misled. My data cannot be leaked because I’m presenting it to the world already. Lemmy is a young social project with many problems to solve, still trying to gain traction and hold on to users and with an uncertain future. In brief: bigger fish to fry.

    Maybe privacy controls could be on the list, but I don’t think it addresses the main problems or applications of the platform and creates its own set of issues. Keep it simple and stupid.

    Railcar8095, to privacy in Proton domains blocked as disposable in disposable filter

    It’s a rare treat to see somebody raise a concern while at the same time doing something (PR + discussion). Kudos to you!

    I’ve seen other similar lists with the same issues (c7 I think?).

    This is going to be a mesh if all private email providers are blocked.

    privacyfighter,
    @privacyfighter@discuss.online avatar

    We fighted it out from 7c filter. Now only this and this lasts. Thank you for kind words. Only community can change this bad practice!

    library_napper, to linux in Make any Distro Immutable
    @library_napper@monyet.cc avatar

    Why no containers?

    atzanteol,

    This community is full of people who simply “don’t like certain things”. They may say “it’s overkill” disregarding the fact that it solves their use case perfectly. Or it could be written in a language they don’t like. Or maybe they heard somebody else complain about it on a forum once and now think it’s bad.

    actual_patience,

    I think flatpaks are good. The performance penalty for containerized software can be felt much more when you’re not using a good CPU. So containers do not “solve” my use case.

    Euphoma,

    I’m using a cpu from 2013 and gaming in containers seems to work as well as it does outside of containers.

    Joker,

    Yeah, it’s also the same group of people who are always complaining about how much RAM a desktop environment or app uses, that app being whichever one they are using right now.

    poVoq, to privacy in Privacy Concerns on Lemmy: A Call for More User Control
    @poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

    Given the state Lemmy is in (barely functional with loads of papercuts) and the barebones developer funding it has (barely above minimum wage), these honestly feel like low priority “nice to have” features for a software that is meant for public forums.

    SnotFlickerman,
    @SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    No! How dare you suggest something so absurd!

    I don’t care how little money they have and how few developers they have, they need to bring a feature-set that is on par with corporations with billions of dollars at their disposal and thousands of developers! Fuck that, they need to even do better than those companies on the privacy issue!

    Big fat /S

    KingThrillgore, to piracy in Tachiyomi replacement is out
    @KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml avatar

    you’re gonna wanna get off GitHub fast

    JStenoien,

    Why? Nothing about the previous situation had anything to do with it being on github.

    LWD, to privacy in Privacy Concerns on Lemmy: A Call for More User Control

    There’s a grim tragedy in how many people in this comment section have either succumbed to defeat or actively seek to advocate against privacy.

    The comments can mostly be boiled down to:

    • My data is online already, and I give up
    • Your data is online already, and you don’t deserve control over it
    • I have nothing to hide and nothing to fear (and you should too)

    You will find Fediverse types are far more cynical and antagonistic to privacy than people on other platforms.

    Tangent5280,

    But why? Is there a compromise taken on privacy in favour of visibility and mass adoption of whatever fediverse client they’re using? I don’t understand this, especially since I also find the strongest advocates for privacy right here.

    LWD,

    A lot of Lemmy adopters joined with rose tinted glasses, and came with a lot of good ideas, like getting data out of the hands of big companies, making it easy to access it (as Reddit locked down APIs), etc. Which is all good, but a subset of them believe “not officially belonging to one company” is good enough. As for how your data is handled online, a subset of them believe nothing can be improved, and a subset believes it shouldn’t be improved because your data shouldn’t belong to you at all.

    And Lemmy is made up of all sorts, so there’s overlap between Reddit refugees and diehard fans. That interaction is a lot more implicit here, but the friction is a lot more visible on sites like Mastodon where similar privacy discussions have been happening.

    Devorlon,

    I’ve not seen any of these arguments. Though it may be all downvoted to hell and back.

    My main gripe with adding privacy features to Lemmy is that the whole point of Lemmy is that all data is already publicly available and for Lemmy to continue working the way it does it’ll need to remain that way. And because of that there’s nothing that can be done to stop bad actors setting up an instance and selling all the data they collect.

    At least in the EU (and UK to a lesser extent) no major corporation would be able to get away with selling that data, so the spent man hours on allowing privacy settings would be wasted time.

    LemmyHead,

    It doesn’t necessarily need to remain that way. For example,we should have the option to make our profiles private. We should also be able to create pseudonyms for content we submit. The content will still be federated, but not necessarily linked to one user ID

    mr_satan, to privacy in Privacy Concerns on Lemmy: A Call for More User Control
    @mr_satan@monyet.cc avatar

    What you’re describing is an issue with all of social media. While your concerns are valid, I don’t see your arguments as privacy issue. I honestly prefer post and comment history being transparent and accessible. It’s much like Reddit and this format fits much better with an open forum style of platform.

    Don’t post private information and it’s a non-issue.

    Also, can’t you just delete posts and comments like on Reddit?

    Outtatime,
    @Outtatime@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Would still be nice to hide that information

    drndramrndra,

    Also, can’t you just delete posts and comments like on Reddit?

    Not really AFAIK. Your comment is spread across many instances, and they’re not required to follow your deletion request.

    mr_satan,
    @mr_satan@monyet.cc avatar

    Oh, I see

    LWD,

    It’s no required, but if a server is misbehaving, people could notice and those servers could be defederated. By default, deletions are federated.

    bamboo,

    Also, can’t you just delete posts and comments like on Reddit?

    Nothing ever dies on the Internet. With the federated nature of Lemmy, it’s possible for deletes to not sync across instances, especially if there’s defederation that happens.

    mr_satan,
    @mr_satan@monyet.cc avatar

    Makes sense, when I think about it

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