Clever_Clover, 1 year ago (edited 1 year ago)

I of course know and absolutely condemn that, again what is your point?

You do not know what these words mean and you do not truly condemn them, that’s clear by the arguments you make

Israel is the most diverse country in the whole region without question

“Without question” since when are you a middle east expert? How many years did it take to get your doctorate degree on the subject?

Israel is not diverse, an apartheid state cannot be applauded for having the second class citizens be of a different race, by your logic south Africa during apartheid was the most diverse country in the southern African region

and it is also also the only democracy

Do you know what an apartheid state is? Could you give me that definition, and then give me the definition of a democracy, and try to weasel your way out of the contradiction that an apartheid state can’t be a democracy

Other countries in the region are monarchies or (often military) dictatorships.

The UK is a monarchy, but I bet you think it’s democratic to some degree, are you aware that a lot of the monarchies in the region employ a similar parliamentary system?

Israel is also the only country in the region that has womens and LGBTQ+ rights written into it’s law

You can blame CIA funding the religious extremist reactionaries (and also the british bringing in the criminalization of lgbtq people during their colonial rule over the region) for the oppressive laws that exist in the region, but despite that it’s not as bad in certain countries that are more progressive, a lot of the middle eastern countries are on the level of Serbia/other reactionary Balkan countries in terms of lgbtq stuff

Israel is not really better for lgbtq people, especially Palestinian citizens of Israel that belong to that group, they are very heavily oppressed and regularly harassed and even get blackmailed by the IDF due to their identities

You show that you don’t know anything about the region, just repeat the propaganda and pink washing that you’ve been fed.

while in all other countries in the region women are being oppressed second class citizens

it’s very funny that you think this, in a lot of the countries in the region (notable exceptions being US allies like Saudi Arabia) women have the same rights and protections under the law, this has been the case for many many years in most of these countries, women’s rights are lagging behind the west sure, but it’s nowhere near as bad as you have been told, especially in more recent years

Agreed but sadly, when we look at history, it seems to happen quite often, no matter if we like it or not.

“Agreed but” no buts, this is not a justifiable action, the fact that it happened in the past doesn’t justify current day actionsththe fact that the US and Britain committed genocide doesn’t mean we should just give up on fucking stopping genocide, “no matter if we like it or not” we have reached an agreement that we don’t like it, a global consensus that it is bad (other than the US and other western countries that support Israel, they love genocide), so we should stop people from committing genocide, if Russia starts to commit an actual genocide in Ukraine like Israel is doing in Gaza, then you’ll no doubt agree that the world should sanction them, etc, in order to stop them, you just don’t think Palestinians are people like Ukrainians are.

I fully agree with that statement. However this does not justify generalizing all Israeli citizens as child murderers.

During Hitlers rule of Nazi Germany, a very large number of Germans picked up arms and fought against their government, and were killed for it, mainly communists and leftists

But a lot Germans lived happily under and supported the actions of their government

Would you say those Germans that never lifted a finger to oppose the genocide and ethnic cleansing of jews were responsible for what happened? I’d say yes, they did not protest, did not resist, especially the ones that served in the army

Are you aware that the majority of Israeli citizens are reservists that will pick up arms to serve in the IDF if given the order? Are you aware that the IDF has a higher than 80% approval rating among Israelis? How are these people not complicit?

I fully agree with you that jews are just people like everyone else but we should also consider the regular antisemitic pogroms that happened throughout history, which are an obvious motivation for a community to get their own safe space in the world.

We should indeed consider those pogroms, every antisemite in Europe should be killed for their crimes, rather than what happened (governments with the help of NATO suppressing communists and leftists and promoting nationalistic (usually antisemitic) groups)

Also, all you’ve done with this argument is establish that “Jews should get an ethnostate” (I still disagree but I’ll humor you for a second), you did not establish that a noble cause justifies ethnic cleansing and genocide, therefore the actions of Israel are no more acceptable than the actions of british settlers committing genocide against native Americans

Absolutely agree. Please keep in mind that I in fact never apologized any of the crimes of the IDF or the illegal settlers.

You did, continuously bringing up that zionists have a (in your view) noble cause is an attempt at the justification of ethnic cleansing and genocide

All I did was criticizing the antisemitic generalization of all citizens of Israel as casual child murderers.

They are complicit in the child murder.

Sadly it seems like most people’s opinions are simply too polarized to get such nuances at this point.

You’re a liberal.