it’s quotes like these that result in a massive swing of support for a ceasefire despite a massively funded propaganda campaign in the media by israeli linked groups
It doesn’t matter what Hamas agrees to or doesn’t, up to this point the ratio of Palestinians killed to Israelis has been 25:1. The two groups are not comparable, it’sfallacious to talk about it as if it’s a “bothsides” scenario.
This is because Israel has all the power, money, land and all the security infrastructure. For decades the only thing Hamas was able to do was bounce rockets off the Iron Dome. The reason Hamas was able to carry out this recent attack was because of Israeli hubris that Palestinians had been sufficiently broken by the IDFs campaign of oppression. They couldn’t fathom that the subhumans could organize this kind of response to their oppression.
Egypt even warned Israel days before the attack that it was going to happen, Israel ignored it because, as we are witnessing, the far-right government wanted an excuse to go on a genocidal tear through Gaza.
It’s Israel’s responsibility, as an actual nation state with full control over Palestine and Gaza, to stop their genocide.
Really? 1200 Israelis murdered on October 7th, you’re really telling me that over 30,000 Palestinians have been killed?
Israel has killed over 10,000 civilians in last month or so. Most of whom have been children. More children alone than Israelis in total. So, massively disproportionate and unforgivably evil, but that’s not the ratio I was talking about.
I was referring to the comparative death tolls over the course of Israel’s decades long apartheid rule in Palestine and Gaza, illustrating the clear imbalance of power and how little power Gazans have had, even to resist violently. The pattern of Israel holding all the cards and being able to kill with impunity has held true for decades, they are the occupiers, they haven’t been sitting around minding their own business. They’ve been gassing mosques, blowing up news stations, killing kids and reporters, strangling the supply lines into Gaza.
It would be like the US government mercilessly bombing the Native American reservations here in the US, preventing snyone from leaving or supplies going in, destroying civilian centers and hospitals and calling it a “war”, acting as if they have no responsibility to not kill innocent civilians.
So yes, Israel needs to control their genocidal right-wing government, the “ceasefire” means them stopping murdering children.
I was referring to the comparative death tolls over the course of Israel’s decades long
alright I'm going to ignore the rest of your antisemitic bullshit and just focus on the ratio you picked, probably also out of made-up numbers (and I doubt you included all the Israeli soldiers killed in wars started by surrounding Muslim nations pretending to act on Palestinians' behalf), to frame the issue without ignoring what actually happened.
Over the past few decades, the Palestinians have started every damn war they could against Israel, including two intifadas, suicide bombings, rockets aimed vaguely at civilians (historically, roughly 1/3-1/4 of the rockets fired from Gaza since 2001 landed in Gaza). Hamas has built plenty of tunnels in Gaza, but no workers, because it prefers to see its civilians die because it makes the statistics more gruesome and keeps their control of the gaza strip going.
Meanwhile, Israelis invest billions into not only technology like the Iron Dome to defend Israeli civilians, but also in warning technology like roof knocking tech, medical tech that it used to save Palestinian lives, including that of Yahya Sinwar, and... Oh yeah, remember the thousands of greenhouses they left in Gaza in 2005 when they unilaterally withdrew? Gee, what ever happened to those?
So Palestinians:
Don't defend their own
Send their own into suicide missions—sometimes, in that history, literally
Literally kill their own (and count the numbers against Israel in their often made-up statistics, see the Al-Ahli hospital explosion)
If Hamas wouldn’t have attacked, Israel would currently not be at war with them. Great that you think that you know the REAL reason for everything but it doesn’t change the fact that Hamas attacked Israel.
Israel has been as much “at war” as they are now for the past forty years, because it’s never been a war in any meaningful sense of the word; it’s been a colonization whereby Israel has been violently oppressing Palestine and the Gaza strip and having to deal with groups that violently resist that colonization because they’ve been given literally no other path towards influence iver their own homeland.
Gaza is not a country, it’s an open air prison controlled entirely by Israel. You can’t cut off water, food and electricity to a region and then claim it’s some kind of independent nation whos condition is not your responsibility.
Israel’s war is about as meaningful a use of the word as the war on “terror”. It’s propaganda to make it seem like Israel hasn’t themselves been willfully seeding these conditions for decades.
I’m not sure whether it would be political suicide for Biden to criticize Israel going into an election, but he sure seems to think so.
I wonder if he’d have anything else to say if this were his second term rather than his first. Or like, if Trump were firmly in prison and disqualified from election.
Zionists in Mandatory Palestine collaborated with the Nazis just prior to the Holocaust. “They” specifically meaning radical Zionists in Israel. As a side note, Holocaust victims who immigrated to Palestine/Israel were often met with derision because the belligerent Israeli Zionists considered their “weakness” an embarassment to them. I’ve been reading a lot about Zionism recently and the more I learn the further it seems to me from the kind of values I’m familiar with from Judaism. Hopefully the philosophy goes the way of “Manifest Destiny” in the dustbin of history or at least transforms into something that does not require the removal of all Palestinians from their land.
I read through the entire section you linked. Half of the section was also describing the Haavara agreement. The Palestinians resisting violence from the influx of European colonists also recieved some help, but to answer your question according to what you linked the Zionists clearly recieved more support for a longer period of time. In terms of the actual conflict taking place in Palestine at the time, the help the Zionists recieved from the Nazis was significantly more impactful than the help the Palestinians later recieved from the Nazis.
One thing I want to clarify is that it is completely fucked up that the Palestinian leaders speaking with the Nazis named their enemy as all Judaism rather than the actual sociopolitical force which was the true threat to their sovereignty. Anti-semetism was never and is never justified. I’m at least glad that a lot of anti-semetism has been scrubbed from official anti-zionist documentation although I have no doubt some continue to blame all Jewish people even though many of whom also oppose Zionism.
Edit: One more point on conflation. The German Jewish people fleeing for their lives were not the ones who made the Haavara agreement with the Nazis. Zionists made that agreement. The reason is that the Zionists and the Nazis agreed that Jewish people should be expelled from Europe.
What a joke. I love how he uses the passive voice to describe IDF war crimes, but Hamas gets the active. They’re going to try and do regime change in Gaza, but Hamas is not the beginning or end of Palestinian armed resistance. What we really need is regime change in Israel.
As for Ukraine, I think that’s a lost cause and nothing Biden says convinces me otherwise. The enthusiasm for Israel just isn’t there for Ukraine in this piece.
Parties to a conflict shall at all times distinguish between combatants and non-combatants. Attacks shall be directed solely against legitimate military targets.
If you look up the definition of military targets you will see
“In so far as objects are concerned, military objectives are limited to those objects which by their nature, location, purpose or use make an effective contribution to military action and whose total or partial destruction, capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling at the time, offers a definite military advantage.”
You can ask pretty much every lawyer that Hamas actually made the hospitals into legitimate targets under the Geneva Conventions. The only party that clearly broke that law without a doubt is Hamas.
what you quoted only makes the Hamas facility the target. Civilians inside that hospital are not valid targets.
Right. So Israel targets the Hamas facility. Sometimes, civilians in the hospital die as a result of attacks targeting the Hamas facility and Hamas individuals. This is what is commonly known as "collateral damage." It is a tragedy that should be minimized.
Bibi reduced military protection in the south to punish the kibbutz dwellers, and to focus on war-criming the West Bank. Either he figured his trunks full of cash would keep Hamas in line, or he just really didn’t care what happened down there.
He also clearly gives zero shits about the hostages. Hamas wanted to negotiate for their release at the beginning of the conflict, but he decided he would rather war-crime Gaza instead.
Israel could have gone along with this and still attacked Hamas but I suppose they knew there would be Palestinian civilians killed so they wanted the excuse of “But muh hostages!”.
I predict the swap will be done now that Israel needs no more excuse. Hamas leaders will be able to (or allowed to) flee, just like Arafat fled the Beirut siege, calling it a victory.
Netanyahu is going to bomb the hostages and then blame Hamas, saying they were used as human shields, just like he’s been doing with Palestinian civilians. 200 Israeli hostages “murdered by Hamas (using Israeli bombs)” is more useful politically to his war-machine than 200 live hostages.
I doubt it. He is fighting for political survival. He is probably a goner regardless but even he realises that to do what you suggest would be political suicide. He only cares about himself.
Are you by any chance in denial of the PIJ missile which misfired into the hospital carpark a couple of weeks back? The one which Hamas lied was a direct hit by Israeli bombs killing 500?
Are you by any chance in denial of the PIJ missile which misfired into the hospital carpark a couple of weeks back? The one which Hamas lied was a direct hit by Israeli bombs killing 500?
No, I think it is likely that it was a rocket that misfired. Israel has been responsible for all the intentional bombs hitting hospitals, schools, places of worship, etc though, so I’m not sure what significance you are attributing to what someone believes about the one unintentional one?
Sorry. I misjudged you. Been on Reddit too long. No room for nuance there.
The significance is that media is still often relaying Hamas claims as if fact and you might have been relying wholly on such reports.
That hospital incident was clearly Hamas bs from the outset - no photos, a video of the carpark leaked within 24 hours, Al Jazeera themselves unwittingly streamed live footage of the misfiring rocket.
According to three sources familiar with the talks, the original deal on the table involved freeing children, women and elderly and sick people in exchange for a five-day ceasefire, but the Israeli government turned this down and demonstrated its rejection with the launch of the ground offensive.
Targeting civilians is a war crime. Targeting enemy combatants while trying to evacuate civilians, trying to warn civilians so desperately that you warn the enemy combatants too, and killing civilians in attacks that target legitimate military targets and reflect a sufficient level of care to minimize risk to human life, is not a war crime, that's the definition of "collateral damage."
There's no double standard there, that's the whole issue.
They have bombed a neonatal unit! You can’t murder premature babies and be like “Whoopsy!”. Absolutely disgusting. As for ‘evacuating civilians’ they’ve blocked the borders. Workers who worked outside Gaza have been forcibly returned.
It is. When your enemy is embedded in hospitals and mosques and everywhere else civilians try to go for safety, it gets hard. But I'm sure your alternative is just for Israel to just agree to a one-sided ceasefire and wait for Hamas to shore up its weapons, move the hostages, and repeat its 10/7 attack, huh?
ahh yes. Because the Israeli army has literally no options between “relentless bombing of Gaza, denying access to food, water and medicine, sniping civillians trying to flee according to your demand on the safe routes you designated and bombing ambulances trying to move patients in the same way” and “doing nothing and watch Hamas regroup.”
Israel could have led an infantry assault into Gaza withou pounding everything first. That would have meant higher casualties though and here shows the true nature of Israels government and army.
They do not care for any palestinian life. So far for every Israeli soldier that got killed, more than 200 palestinian civillians were killed.
In world war 2 the axis powers killed about 6 civillians for every axis soldier and the allies killed about 1 civillian for every 4 ally soldiers. So the war that was about total destruction and genocide still had more than a magnitude less civillians killed relative to combatants killed.
“Yeah, but if there’s one Hamas guy inside a densely-populated refugee camp, what possible other choice do we have than to bomb literally tens of buildings in there? He could have been in any of them! We gave those civilians ample warning that they are subject to murder at any time, anyways! How can you say we’re not merciful and restrained!?”
ahh yes. Because the Israeli army has literally no options between “relentless bombing of Gaza, denying access to food, water and medicine,
the IDF turned off its supply of 7% of gazan water for a few days, and is still getting shit for it. Hamas never bothered to maintain the power plant or desalination plant, stole fuel from the power plant that could have been used to keep running the hospitals and desalination plant, and openly dug up water pipes to fashion into rockets. They didn't even hide that, they were proud of that.
sniping civillians trying to flee according to your demand on the safe routes you designated
You know that bridge was Hamas snipers, right? Israel didn't have a real presence in that area yet, the closest thing they had was a ship that did not fire small bullets. People initially blamed all the bullet-ridden bloody bodies on the bridge on an Israeli airstrike, and then realized that there was no sign of any explosion anywhere on the bridge, and had to change their story. =/
and bombing ambulances trying to move patients in the same way”
Hamas said that there were no patients in those ambulances, but the IDF had intelligence that there were, in fact, terrorists in them. This is in keeping with a long-standing pattern going back a good 20 years, Hamas loves shuttling terrorists around in ambulances.
Israel could have led an infantry assault into Gaza withou pounding everything first. That would have meant higher casualties though and here shows the true nature of Israels government and army.
I love how, now, people are saying "they should have invaded by land!" when, before the ground invasion began, everybody was protesting the concept of a land invasion and surrounding nations had threatened to declare war if Israel invaded.
They do not care for any palestinian life. So far for every Israeli soldier that got killed, more than 200 palestinian civillians were killed.
You know how I know you made that number up? Nobody anywhere has published any number of palestinian civilians that were killed in this war.
In world war 2 the axis powers killed about 6 civillians for every axis soldier and the allies killed about 1 civillian for every 4 ally soldiers. So the war that was about total destruction and genocide still had more than a magnitude less civillians killed relative to combatants killed.
Please, feel free to cite Hamas statistics here, I'd love to see if they've finally claimed a number of civilians vs combatants.
Hamas wouldn’t have done 10/7 if not for Israel’s colonialism and genocide, and Israel has never had a true “ceasefire” in Palestine. They for years have done bombing campaigns that they euphemize as “mowing the grass”, against Gaza. You can’t divorce the current conflict from the history that led to it.
Turns out that desperation breeds extremism, and Israel is the one who made Palestinians desperate.
People don’t denounce slaves who revolt as being too brutal, but continually murdering and starving peoples’ children apparently is not bad enough to justify revolt when it’s only Palestinians being murdered.
Same old strategy as every colonizer ever; brainwash the ones you can and strip them of their cultural identity, bury the ones that won’t bend in the mass grave out back.
Same reason there was a massive spike in orphanages as the Uyghur progrom got under way in Xinjiang and communities started vanishing. The CCP sees the necessity of inserting itself between parent and child to stop cultural continuity.
Yep, and the worst part is that it’s proving that as long as you do a genocide slowly, and through systems like cultural erasure, forced abortions of Uyghurs, and ‘reeducation’ camps rather than straight deathcamps, world governments won’t put any real effort into stopping it.
Imperialists like America don’t like China’s imperialism, but not because they’re opposed to Imperialism, only because it threatens their own hegemony.
Meanwhile, anti-colonialists who should know better, like Mbembe, fall for China’s positioning of themselves as a counter to Imperialism simply because they’re opposing American and European hegemony with their own hegemony.
Israel is clearly a bad actor here. Both sides committed war crimes and this is a generational hatred on both sides. Hatred exists on both sides too. I’m not a fan of either side because I’m not a fan of generational hatred.
At the same time, being able to hold to opinions at once, I believe that Israel has been allowed to run roughshod over the Palestinian people and that imbalance of power is injustice beyond what I personally can imagine.
That said, the US should’ve stopped Israel. That’s bullshit. Apparently the US government can’t find money for education, roads, or health care but there’s no problem killing Palestinian kids.
Really lays bare the priorities. It’s disgusting, appaling… Actually, no I don’t have words for but it is.
Is this because they know that since the US is backing them, they’re untouchable, and the US won’t stop them since it’s afraid of regional destabilization? Asking for a friend.
The US uses Israel for regional destabilization. A unified Arab world (proposed by Nasser, Gaddafi, among others) would be a threat to US hegemony and the petrodollar. Most importantly, this would harm the US’ ability to print obscene amounts of money in a crisis with minimal effect on domestic prices.
Bringing up Tiananmen when there are documented instances (with actual evidence) of people getting run over by Israeli tanks and bulldozers in Gaza right now. Backed by the US government. With the US President actively spreading FUD about the scale and extent of atrocities. Nice.
Xizang is literally the phonetic transliteration for the region of the TAR. You’re basically saying that we should keep the name Western colonialists gave a territory because Western brains would get hurt if the name changed.
I love how you Tankies just assume everyone but you is pro-US or something.
Yeah, absolutely; the Chinese government is evil just like Israel and the US’s governments. Glad we agree that they’re all imperialist genociders! Good talk!
For these people it’s the most grievous offense to criticize china and russia, and if you’re not constantly cheering for total annihilation of the West, you’re an ontologically evil libshit and deserve to be gulag’d
By the widely recognized origin of the word (the Soviet Union rolling in tanks to suppress revolution in Hungary) and what it means (people in support of that use of force and tanks to suppress civilian revolution), supporters of Israel and the US are both “tankies.” Glad we agree, good talk!
Tankie refers to those people who supported the Soviet use of tanks to quell the Hungarian revolution. Literally, it’s the exact same thing Israel is doing in Gaza.
Not quite what it refers to now, but I’m sure you’ll inform us that you know better.
Tankie is a pejorative label generally applied to communists who express support for one-party communist regimes that are associated with Marxism–Leninism, whether contemporary or historical.
The term “tankie” was originally used by dissident Marxist–Leninists to describe members of the Communist Party of Great Britain (CPGB) who followed the party line of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU). Specifically, it was used to distinguish party members who spoke out in defense of the Soviet use of tanks to crush the Hungarian Revolution of 1956 and the 1968 Prague Spring uprising.
By the widely recognized origin of the word (the Soviet Union rolling in tanks to suppress revolution in Hungary) and what it means (people in support of that use of force and tanks to suppress civilian revolution), supporters of Israel and the US are both “tankies.” Glad we agree, good talk!
what it means (people in support of that use of force and tanks to suppress civilian revolution)
This ^ is the incorrect part of your statement. That is not what it means now.
edit: Also
Tankie refers to those people who supported the Soviet use of tanks to quell the Hungarian revolution.
Emphasis added. If you meant “referred” in the past tense, that was a typo on your part. Otherwise, you are just trying to reclaim the term to an earlier meaning.
For what it’s worth, there’s still no evidence that Chinese tanks actually killed anyone on 6/4. No journalists on the ground found any indication of a mass casualty event on Tiananmen Square, which directly contradicts the claims made by protestors that there was. The same cannot be said for Soviet tanks in Hungary or Israeli tanks in Gaza, where civilian causalities are rather well-documented.
No journalists on the ground found any indication of a mass casualty event on Tiananmen Square
ON Tiananmen Square. This is fascist-level wordplay. The same journalists found a massacre all around Tiananmen Square in the rest of Beijing.
no evidence that Chinese tanks actually killed anyone on 6/4
This is just a straight up lie. Lots of people were killed in Beijing. Just possibly not any within the tiny physical confines of Tiananmen Square itself.
What’s saddest about this is that it took me literally 3 minutes to find images of tanks in Tiananmen running over student barricades, and blood streaks left on the ground afterwards, and bodies on the ground, but you don’t actually care at all, you’ll just cover your ears and push your narrative. You’re no better than people downplaying what Israel and America do, but you are so wrapped up in the righteousness of your ML rhetoric that you’ll just deny it and make up excuses for your side doing the same stuff.
took me literally 3 minutes to find images of tanks in Tiananmen running over student barricades, and blood streaks left on the ground afterwards
I’m not as fast browsing through the 2141 images you’ve linked, most of them of protesters, some burned down tanks, and someone on a bike dressed as a tank. Could you point to the exact images you’re referring to?
Have you seen the blood streaks that tank tracks create? You can look at some of the videos in Gaza if you want to.
Try again, maybe this time with actual evidence instead of unfounded conjecture.
Edit: To clarify, I don’t think anybody is denying that people were hurt and killed on 6/4. Let’s make that clear. If anything, the Tank Man video shows that tank drivers were under orders to avoid civilian casualties.
It’s very funny to me that you keep bringing up Gaza like it’s some counterpoint to what I’m saying, when all you’re doing is pointing out another bloodthirsty regime’s crimes. Do you think that Israel’s government being evil is somehow a rebuttal to China’s government being evil?
the name Western colonialists gave a territory because Western brains would get hurt
This is one of those cases where we really need to know the wishes of the people in question before we make assumptions.
Case in point: Myanmar. "Burma" is the British colonial name, however it is preferred by some of the freedom fighters fighting the Tatmadaw because "Myanmar" is associated with the Junta's regime. And the real/pre-colonial name varies because the old name Myanma Pran is associated with a specific ethnic group, the Burmese.
Dude brought up a completely unrelated topic and used the “tankie” perjorative, a term that literally describes IDF supporters based on the actions of the IDF in Gaza.
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