This was my take. Considering the bed is wider and deeper, that black truck can literally hold 4x what the other truck carries.
Also from a quick google, I only see a single mini-truck retailer within 500 miles of me and they only sell very-used, with worse exhausts and MPGs than an F150.
Most people don’t need that bigger truck, but if they do that smaller truck won’t cut it.
A quick google suggests “real world” use of modern microtrucks is 28ish mpg without heavily modding it or super-efficient variants. Older Kei trucks are lower. Actually, much MUCH lower according to minitrucktalk. 22-23.
I know someone with a 2021 Silverado Hybrid holding at 29mpg. And they regularly lug full loads that would take four trips from a Kei truck. Admittedly the “hybrid” part stops mattering with full loads, but I guarantee Kei isn’t going to have great MPG numbers carrying 1000lbs of cargo.
Minitruck owners (sometimes rightly) lean on a soapbox where they and those around them rarely lug any cargo. IMO, might as well drive a Prius at that point but whatever. But ya gotta stop the circlejerk enough to acknowledge that someone who does regularly carry a full cab worth of stuff is in a better position with a normal truck.
Flip-side, very few people need a truck. And those that don’t need a truck also don’t need a kei truck.
Thanks for providing some info, sadly the 29mpg on the hybrid is not the norm or good
For a load-bearing vehicle it absolutely is. And I showed that it compared favorably to these minitrucks. This whole thread is about comparing trucks to trucks. If you need to carry shit, you are hurting the environment if you buy a mini-truck over a Silverado or F150.
it looks like your buddy is doing some great mileage compared to say the info from
Well, 10 years goes a long way. You literally picked a 2011 Silverado. Perhaps look at 2023 numbers on the same site?
As for Kei, as I said it’s hard to get a fair chance when the only places nearby sell heavily-used older vehicles. Gas mileage has largely skyrocketed of late because Auto manufacturers are getting scared.
But ultimately, If you have any truck and don’t need its carrying ability, you’re an asshole. I think the case of a japanese mini-truck being the “best choice” is ultimately too rare to hold your breath for.
A step further, the REAL sad truth is that most minitrucks aren’t even legal in the US without being modified to a max speed of 25mph because they don’t meet safety and emission standards for road vehicles. That’s why so many around here are old. Before 1998, they’re grandfathered in and people in other countries that don’t grandfather old vehicles are offloading them.
Do we really want to be cheering on unsafe high-emission vehicles as the “cure” to the F150?
your link lists MPG of 21.82 for 2023, that is almost 1/3 worse then your friend.
That is for a non-Hybrid Silverado, and my friend has a hybrid. Seems to make sense.
The legal issues are a issue not because these are unsafe or high-emission (they are not). They are a major issue because the auto industry has fed you that tripe and like a lot of US consumers you bought it.
That is sorta tinfoil. There is a process in most states to get ANY vehicle street-legal. But Kei trucks don’t just need safety features retrofitted, apparently they lack a sufficient roll cage to pass inspections for valid safety concerns. Even Kei fans can’t agree on whether it’s more or less safe in a crash than a motorcycle.
As for emissions, in a lot of states you just have to pass standard EPA emissions guidelines like any other vehicle. Apparently that’s very difficult for a Kei truck to do. Perhaps it uses a gallon or two less per hundred miles, but its emissions are worse.
Lots of Kei truck fans out there bitch about how the EPA should have better things to do than care about fehicle emissions, but I’d think a “fuck cars” community would care about vehicle emissions.
These are not good on gas, they have convinced people that 29mpg in a hybrid that costs as much as a house is good.
So your viewpoint is entirely about money. Just be straight with it.
and in no world would you catch me in anything made in north America for the last 20 years. Like many other people I had to buy a very old truck (carberated v8 that gets 14ish mpg btw) and it sits by my barn until it is needed.
Why is that? Newer vehicles tend to be safer in collisions and better on emissions than the equivalent older vehicle.
The “cure” to the f150 is just the option to buy a old f150
Circa 2000 F150s rate as low as 10-11MPG. New F150s rate as high as 25MPG. And new F150s are a lot safer to drive. I’ll ask again, is this entire rant of yours just about money? Because maybe I’m the wrong person to respond to if you’re just cheap. I get it, I’d rather take a bus myself than have a car payment.
The term is “hostile work environment”. HR doesn’t just respond because of strict liability. Just one occurance of something like this can lead to an otherwise solid worker to spiral from discomfort of the situation, both feeling like a prisoner at their job and producing far less value for their employers.
The latter is why HR cares, but the former is why it’s OKay to go straight to HR. If HR is well-trained, things like this shouldn’t escalate just because you went to HR. They should be able to diffuse it productively.
Actually, I’ve watched two GREAT workers and good people end up losing their jobs because a easily resolved situation turned toxic. The person who felt uncomfortable tried to take care of it 1-on-1 but had too passive aggressive a nature to really be clear when she confronted the guy.
So 6 months or a year later, she was on the verge of quitting and went to HR. He was terminated because it had gone too far. She left soon after because she still wasn’t comfortable at work after the cause of that ended.
…look. I “obviously never dealt” with anything because nobody is allowed differing opinions here, but I have 20+ years experience at businesses where the existence or lack of good HR has been a deciding factor of the work-culture and comfort level of team members. I work 1-on-1 with my company’s Directors of HR on a regular basis to make sure my team is happy and because I am involved with other teams at my job who have their own interpersonal conflicts. One of HR’s responsibilities in a good company is to involve themselves in interpersonal conflicts BEFORE decisive action has to be taken.
The problem is that face-to-face confrontations without a mediator don’t always end well. And I would rather not have HR decide “we have to fire our Rockstar senior dev or this random guy”. But if you address it earlier, HR deals with it earlier (yes, because the paper trail m eans HR can’t just fire “this random guy” later over the Rockstar senior dev). It’s win-win for all parties INCLUDING the Linus Torvalds in this explanation.
But I’ve “obviously never dealt with a real-world scenario” and my experience doesn’t count. So you can ignore everything I said.
I think it’s a matter of expertise. I am stuck dealing with people who write Javascript/Typescript like it’s C# because they’re C# senior devs. It’s not world-ending until issues of speed, scale, or other “why we use best practices” raise their ugly heads. Then it is world-ending. I can only help with so many design standards when you still see everything show up in a classes-and-subclasses mindset with hard-to-catch concurrency bugs. I actually caught a developer trying to spin up a child process to wait on a socket response.
So in FinTech, I can imagine it becomes a bigger deal faster.
I think anyone who has lived on or around a farm, or has just come to understand everything involved, would have a problem “admitting” that. Non-Factory farming in a modern country is dramatically benefited from having meat livestock alongside the vegetables, not to mention that there isn’t really any better use for marginal land than to have farm animals like cattle on it. In fact, there are arguments that cattle on marginal land are better for the environment than leaving the land unused because they are better able to sequester carbon than nothing. The environmental discussion that is “clearly pro-vegan” requires bringing in countries that are downright backwards and use their behaviors to overwhelm the many countries where animal ranching provide overall benefit.
And there’s as many Ethical arguments for meat eating as there are for veganism. The “big” argument for veganism here is the classic Utilitarian argument for veganism, but it has easily been beaten by Negative Utilitarian and straight-Utilitarian counters.
And since many of us aren’t Christian or adherents to any Divine Command theory, “morality” is itself unethical and unsustainable to us.
You’re gettin downvoted, but you’re right. It’s the metric we’re coming to use for any group. It’s “okay” if your group has some fringe members that need to be distanced from. It becomes “not okay” when the majority silently accepts the horrible behavior of them.
Similarly, very few cops take abusive actions against minorities, but the number of cops who will defend that behavior in the name of “police brotherhood” closes in at 100%.
People who are downvoting you are out-of-touch with the fact that they are “the good cop who does nothing” in their own group.
It’s millions of random people that have nothing to do with each other and thus don’t see the loud minority or feel the need to correct them
So vegans are “special”? Can you think of other examples of groups of millions of people where there’s no such expectation on their members to call out bad behavior by their fringe? I’m white; skin color is not a community, but I would still be complacent if I didn’t stand against white supremacists. And in terms of randomness and “community” size, there’s more white people than vegans.
they do not represent the many 60 yo Asians that just don’t eat meat.
“Just don’t eat meat” isn’t veganism. Veganism is “just WON’T eat meat… and just WON’T eat other animal products”.
More importantly, look at the context. All he did was point out that vegans NEVER call down militant veganism. If he’s wrong, and I’m wrong, stop saying “there’s no responsibility” and show me just a few sites by “Western hip vegans who tweet” or whatever the hell subset of veganism we’re going to run with, where they are calling out militant vegans on their bullshit. I’ll wait, but I won’t hold my breath.
Let me give my counterpoint. What you’re really trying to say is that vegans have no responsibility to call down militant veganism because most vegans think there’s nothing wrong with it.
I’m not Godwinizing this. The analogy is apt. Not because Veganism is as bad as the White Supremacy movement, but because militant veganism is culturally near-identical with regards to levels of organization, cohesion, and belittling and exclusion of the opposing majority.
Vegans are not special. It’s like if I had the same nationality as someone, do you really need to call out someone from the US that shit on European (assuming you are from the US) ?
No, vegans aren’t special. Thank you. And yes, I consider it my responsibility to call out the American anti-Mexican rhetoric that’s been rekindled because if I don’t, I am complicit. I am struggling not to tangent into at least 20 other incidents between old racial slurs and attacks insults about homosexuality where I’ve had to stand up against “my class”, but the moment I hadn’t done so, then I’m as bad as them.
this article that list a few vegans that are against militant
Unfortunately, this article supports my point in a way I don’t know you intended. This is an article discussing how militant vegans (including the creators of Dominion) are against the tactic of insulting non-vegans directly in their goal of getting everyone to stop eating meat. Further, this clearly rebuts your earlier claim that militant veganism isn’t “a community”.
Remember, if you’re activists against someone’s behavior, you’re attacking that behavior. You need to be damn sure the behavior you’re attacking is objectively wrong. Good-cop Bad-copping it doesn’t change that.
And I never wanted to say most vegans agree with extremists. Theses assholes are ruining veganism image
Then, do the world a favor, and call them out. It probably doesn’t get veganism across the line of reasonableness (stopping pushing for others to be vegan is where that happens) but it gives you a bit more of an ethical foundation.
Without them people would hear vegan and think about nature, saving animals, saving the evironnement
I hate that most vegans I meet won’t agree with me on animal protections in farms because my goals still involve people eating them (EDIT: them=animals. Stupid English language unclear pronouns). I consider my home state’s new free range chicken law a massive win because it doesn’t play with the meaning of “free range” like many big companies do, but most vegans consider it “just another step in normalizing humans eating animals”. You’ve heard the statement “making perfect the enemy of good”, right? Well, there’s a step worse, which is making “my personal preference the enemy of perfect”.
Let me make this clear. We exist in a world where we can scaleably give farm animals a better quality of life than they’d get in the wild with a better environmental impact than not eating them, but it requires regulations that vegans are often unwilling to openly support because it’s not what they want.
But right now they only think about 30 years old Karen screaming at them for no reason calling people murderer and so on.
Agreed. Memes become that because they’re often true. “How do you know someone is a vegan?” EVERYONE has experienced that particular little joke dozens of times if not more. I used to have a coworker who aggressively preached veganism at me, as he gained a ton of weight and his health degraded. This is not me saying that vegans can’t be healthy, but he was definitely doing veganism a disservice.
It doesn’t matter that much to me, I won’t go out of my way to shut down a vegan extremist, I don’t care enough.
I’ve got a few close to me, and they go out of their way to shut down other people close to me. I’ve lived around and been involved in various ways with people in the various meat-related industries. It hurts them, and I care about them, so I care about the issue.
I don’t expect everyone to feel that way. But it’s like the difference between “internet atheists” who are a dime a dozen, and “that guy you actually know that thinks it’s appropriate to treat non-atheists as absolute morons”.
cutting animal product is easier than picking the local farm meat so it’s what I choose
I can respect that. It’s a band-aid solution in my opinion, but if I look at how I tolerate half-ass government actions, I have to honestly accept that a band-aid solution should not be faulted too much.
the most important part is stopping the torture on animals
I think we’d diverge here, but that’s ok. To me, sustainability is more important than animal comfort any time we can’t feasibly have both, so long as a farmed animal is generally better off than the same species in the wild by some agreeable metric - which both cows and chickens generally are (except liberty, but few non-human species put any QoL value on “freedom”).
I hate the mentality that if it’s not perfect we don’t do it, it’s the same for vegans hating on vegetarian.
1000% percent. Vegans are not “going to win” and have a kumbaya utopia (dystopia) where people across the world are forbidden to eat animals and harshly punished when they try. And they’re sure not going to get a world where the masses choose veganism. But there’s a LOT of even ranchers and hunters of all people who would stand at their side for better regulations on humane treatment.
As a theist, I agree. Pascal’s Wager is a terrible argument for God. It doesn’t even address the variety of religions that contradict Christianity with contradicting moral imperatives. It only works if the outcomes are “My Variant of Christian God Exists” or “No God Exists”.
No, I’m a case study of “I actually grew up in a farming community, had enough vegan friends, and came up with my own conclusions” See, I see zealous vegans the same way I see dirty cops or post-1/6 Trump fans. Best-case is deluded, worst case is bad-faith.
One common trend is how much vegans will double- and triple-down on the idea that because they feel veganism is morally superior, it’s actually magically better in every other way, from health to the environment. When you discuss with someone whose “spoke” arguments are based upon what they consider a moral imperative, the truth doesn’t matter.
There’s something wrong with the health/environment/morals tripod of veganism. Everything that is real has pros and cons, and everything that doesn’t have cons is a fiction or exaggeration. The way these moral vegans come out swinging, their description of the vegan reality is indefensible. Eating vegetables is alleged to be tastier, better for the environment, healthier, easier, cheaper, faster, more ethical. Then come the contradictions… people, even experts, who eat meat as part of their healthy diet, farmers that keep livestock (despite having to PAY the government more in taxes, not getting subsidies) because it’s more sustainable for them. The list goes on, until you’re picking the battles based on the things the other side won’t immediately see as willful ignorance.
There’s no element of physical addiction to meat-eating. The supermajority of humans eat animal products because it is the right choice for them, for their health, based upon their morals, and in many cases for their sustainability.
So sorry if “knowing what I’m fucking talking about” is antivegan rhetoric. Have a nice day, I don’t expect a reply.
If you wanted to be honest, it would be “look, I know it’s going to fuck up your ecosystem and local sustainability, but animal lives are important to me” or “look, I know it’s harder to eat healthy and requires more research and supplements, but we can figure it out”. Those are positions I’d respect, if disagree with (because my ethical position, a fairly well-established one, considers eating meat to be perfectly fine)
You’re fine to believe all that, it just comes across as though you’re assuming everyone who eats meat has done the due diligence in finding out what happens behind closed doors
Not really. Actions speak. People who are choosing to eat meat are choosing to do so for some reason. If vegan food is really better than meat in every possible way, nobody would choose to eat meat for any reason.
Someone doesn’t need to be as educated on the meat/vegetable discussion as I am to make those decisions. Obviously I feel the same way about most vegans as you do about meat eaters. I’ve literally had unprepared vegans tell me that it’s better to let overpopulation wrack an area than to hunt and eat deer.
That’s not the case, and it’s too obvious you’re wrapped up in your own views to ever change based on what one guy tells you on the Internet
There comes a point where one is educated enough on an issue that it’s not easy to get them to flip-flop in the opposite direction of all the evidence and their conclusions. That is not the same as closedmindedness or zeal. But more importantly, the “ecology, health, ethics” gishgallop often used in vegan debate is ineffective at doing anything but guilt someone too ignorant to see it happening (which is the whole point I was making tot hat person, who was shifting the topic). Or did you mention ignorance above because it’s about converting those who don’t know better?
Which is OK, people who care are putting in the work, and the world will be better for it.
With all due respect, it’s bad faith to accuse everyone with the opposite view as yours of being uneducated. I have discovered myself to be more educated and prepared than most militant vegans, put in more work, and make the world a better place than they do. The reason is that ultimately, veganism stems from a singular ethical position… not unlike the “single issue voters” so common in modern Democracy. If all you’re seeing is “right and wrong”, you can convince yourself on every other issue. I like to also point out how many good-faith religious folks are convinced homosexuality is harmful because they think it is immoral. Unfortunately, that’s where I see vegans on these topics.
I hope you find compassion one day, because I’m certainly not telling you why you should be.
I think you are exemplifying this remark. You are so zealously and irrationally convinced of this “one and only right morality” that any human who would eat meat has no compassion. Ironically, I used to (and occasionally still do) feel the same way about vegans, since the only workable veganism involved agricultural anti-natalism. You note how above I said I’m more educated on topics than most vegans? The ones I’m not “more educated than” are the real problem here. They’re the ones that, eventually, will admit that their vision of utopia involves preventing farm animals from being born as a better outcome than those animals living a better-than-nature life that happens to end on a dinner plate. I cannot get over the fact that position is the one more lacking of compassion.
So I guess this is the part where I hope YOU find the compassion one day to overcome your squeamishness and do your part to hunt a deer, keep some chickens, or just go to a local butcher to help the entire ecosystem.
True, actions speak. So I do what I can. You probably don’t but that’s an assumption I admit
And this right here is the problem. But you know that and I’m not sure you care.
You’ve got a lot of assumptions, but that’s OK
I’m not the one judging the supermajority of people as “unworthy” and “uneducated”. I make very few assumptions, and even fewer judgements. Look in the mirror.
Even if they’re anecdotal. Like people don’t need to be educated. I disagree.
People don’t need to be propagandized. I’m all about education. I encourage education. For most problems, education is the way out. Listening to someone take their morals and convince you of some hokey pseudo-scientific claim of fact is not education.
As I reinstate, it’s simply anti vegan rhetoric that you’re so on board with
Would you listen to yourself? If someone says something that doesn’t match this clearly fictional view about a meatless-utopia is “rhetoric”. Like I’m reading some “how to screw with perfect people, by Mr. Satan” pamphlets? How about this counter. The vegan side simply doesn’t hold water. Period. That’s it. My so-called rhetoric is just “calling bullshit”.
For clarity, I don’t think you’re an idiot or uneducated, just misguided and have been misinformed for so long, your very core is against the idea, and you’re smart enough to justify why you feel like that.
Why? Because I disagree with vegans? All I see is trollish behavior and downvotes from people who demonstrably show lack of knowledge. When I grew up, my friends were becoming environmental engineers and farmers, and my family struggles have made me acutely aware of the complex nutritional questions that exist. I’m “misinformed” because I’ve been surrounded by experts in the various fields. But I suppose you would tell a PhD in nutrition that they’re misinformed on the health side if they don’t agree with you, and would tell a PhD in Environmental Engineering the same. I bet you would tell a small-time farmer that they’re misinformed about how their negative-margin milk cow (since the strike price of milk is down) is still necessary because it’s the only way their plant crops are profitable.
We’re alllll just misinformed. But the vegans, oh boy, just like the Christians, those vegans know the right of it. And they’ll save my soul if I just let them.
At the end of the day, you are against veganism
Correction. I’m against preachy, militant, veganism. More specifically, I’m against all proselytization, but that from veganism is the worst I’ve seen of late. I have vegans in my family, and I have no problem with them.
but I do hope one day people like yourself can see the fight against oppression doesn’t stop at humans
I already don’t. While you’re fighting to get everyone to stop eating meat, I do my part to fight against Big Ag (meat and plant). I support free range laws that are actually animals getting to live their best lives. I’m against anti-natalism (like PETA and anti-farm initiatives) because that is oppression, too. I fight against preachy vegans because they are oppressing animals in their own way.
I found it! The manual! I'm not sure it's helping me though... (lemmy.world)
same bed length (feddit.de)
Linus does not fuck around (lemmy.one)
An oldie, but a goodie
Not mocking cobol devs but yall are severely underpaid for keeping fintech alive (lemmy.world)
I just want it to stop (startrek.website)
I'm too high for this (i.imgflip.com)
Why not? (media.mas.to)
I lose mine last month :( (telegra.ph)
Vegan food: The west vs India (lemmy.ml)
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