did anyone else from the USA grow up being forced to say the pledge to the flag in school?

im 20 for reference. ever since i was a kid, up until hs, we were forced every morning to stand, look at the flag and hold our hearts and say:

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all"

i didnt stand a single time because i disagreed with being forced, and i was berated by the teacher in front of everyone, and he threatened to kick me out of class if i ever did it again. i was about 11-12 then, it was 2015.

Semi-Hemi-Demigod,
@Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social avatar

I got sick of it and made up my own pledge:

I pledge my cheeses to the hag
of the untied snakes of harmonica
And to my public, the Richard Stans
One nation, under Zod, invisible
With liver, tea, and just us for all

abff08f4813c,

This was very me

Catch42,
@Catch42@kbin.social avatar

Yes, I did. I didn't think anything about it at the time, but as an adult is seems weird, and like someone else said cultish. Yet, I am conflicted, because one of my concerns about the USA is increasing partisanship driven diverging cultures. Having kids say the pledge of allegiance is generally unoffensive, especially when compared to our ongoing culture wars.

LennethAegis,
@LennethAegis@kbin.social avatar

Millennial here. I remember doing this in elementary school in the 90s. I moved in 3rd grade from a place that didn't do it, so it was super weird to me coming in as an outsider.

Ragnell, (edited )
@Ragnell@kbin.social avatar

Yep. It was in the 90s, and after 7th grade we mostly didn't do it anymore (some court ruled it wasn't legal to force us) but we had to sit quietly during the point when we were supposed to be doing in.

EDIT: You are in your 20s, and your teacher yelled at you? He was breaking the law. I bet you remember who it was too. If you see him on social media, I suggest you send him (West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943)) and demand an apology.

https://www.loc.gov/item/usrep319624/

And tell him a veteran told you this.

euphoria, (edited )
@euphoria@kbin.social avatar

thanks for your reply. this all happened in about 2015.

yes, i remember him clearly. he was also incredibly inappropriate with his female students. I remember an incident where i was walking out of his classroom and he was showing another female student "a joke" where he used siri or something to look up "penis" and show her the results. mine you we were all 11 and 12. everyone called him a pedo. he was coach of the girls soccer team. i wish i could go back and stand up for her and myself, but i was a scared kid.

edit: just looked him up on FB. his face made me feel such dread. he has a kid now, a young girl

Ragnell,
@Ragnell@kbin.social avatar

@euphoria Ugh. Watch him show up in the news at some point in the future.

quirzle,
@quirzle@kbin.social avatar

Yeah, I vaguely remember it making the news in the 90s, and I stopped standing at that point. I had one teacher tell me once it was "required" that I stand. I just said "no thanks" and continued sitting, and he dropped it.

It wasn't a big protest in my case though. I normally had a CD player stuffed in my belt, and standing made it more likely to fall out and get noticed. I generally avoided standing as much as possible in those days.

Ragnell,
@Ragnell@kbin.social avatar

It looks like there were a bunch of challenges in the 90s that got struck down. https://www.findlaw.com/education/student-rights/the-pledge-of-allegiance-and-legal-challenges-in-education.html An actual lawyer would know more detail, I bet.

quirzle,
@quirzle@kbin.social avatar

Based on the timing, the 1998 ACLU lawsuit was probably what I was remembering. Would have put me right around my peak pain-in-the-ass years.

Ragnell,
@Ragnell@kbin.social avatar

Me too. Though I remember it a few years earlier than 1998, when I reached 7th grade. Of course I don't think any of my 7-12 teachers cared like the elementary school teachers would have.

Horik,
@Horik@kbin.social avatar

I'm 50, and yes. Except in HS, I sat and dared them to do something about it. My school knew how to pick their battles, they never disciplined me for my acts of civil disobedience (I also protested the dress code when they enacted one).

hihusio,
@hihusio@kbin.social avatar

we did this during elementary school in the 80s. I also remember doing duck and cover drills for nuclear war.

dominoko,
@dominoko@kbin.social avatar

At some point in high school I stopped standing. I want to say my freshman year but I could be wrong. It was just on a whim one day, although I was a bit of a rebel at heart, I was not the type of student to get in trouble for anything.

Anyway, from the day I first decided to ignore the pledge, I was never reprimanded for it. Some teachers would stare daggers at me but I never received any punishment nor were my parents notified.

Edit to add: The time period would have been sometime from 2007-2010

Goathound,

Interesting, I never got in trouble in High School but every 1st period teacher I had was obssessed with making sure each and every student was pledging their allegiance, and the closest I got to getting into trouble was refusing to pledge. I had to write a letter explaining why I wasn't going to anymore.

We were even stopped in the hall, 3 minutes until your class? Too bad, you have to wait in silence in the hall and be late to your class.

Nougat,

Went to Catholic school from 1976 through 1987. We did the pledge in the morning through ... fifth grade? Maybe through eighth, but I don't really remember. Definitely not in high school. In those early years, I wasn't aware enough to know that I even could not want to recite it, let alone having the knowledge that I legally didn't even have to recite it, or even stand up for it.

When my kids were going to public elementary, they did it, too. Very early on, one of my kids didn't like to do it, but it was more about social anxiety than making a political statement. So even though I was well aware of the legal rights around the pledge in school, I did encourage that child to participate when they could, because taking part in a group activity like that was a healthier choice than not for them at that age.

We've since all had plenty of political/legal discussions, including around the pledge and its history, so they all make their own choices now, if the high school even has students recite it at all.

Noremac,
@Noremac@kbin.social avatar

We said the pledge in the mornings in elementary school in the 80s. I don't believe it was held in middle or high school. I never thought twice about it and I don't think any of the other kids did either. Can't remember any issues arising over it then. I couldn't really care less about whether or not schools continued to hold it now.

The-Anus-King,

I grew up in Florida and funnily enough most of the teachers didn’t care, some even encouraged us to think about why we do it and make a decision for ourselves. I’m 28. I’m sure they all moved out of state or got fired by now.

frozen,
@frozen@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz avatar

Yep. Unfortunately, I was raised in a very conservative household and didn’t start questioning those beliefs until college, so I never thought twice about how weird it is to force students to stand up and pledge allegiance to something they literally can not understand the full meaning of.

ThatWeirdGuy1001,
@ThatWeirdGuy1001@sh.itjust.works avatar

You’d get screamed at by the teacher and more than likely end up getting a stupid long lecture about the importance of patriotism if you refused

Like damn bro sorry y’all haven’t done shit to make me proud except scream at me that I should be proud

euphoria,
@euphoria@kbin.social avatar

that's essentially what happened. i was so scared and embarrassed at this grown man going off on me for doing nothing except exercising my right to sit.

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