What can the US do to help Mexico finally stop the cartels?

Politicians constantly talk about stopping the illegal immigrants that are coming from Mexico, but putting a wall has never and will never be a solution since the reason why so many displaced keep coming across the border is mostly to escape the crime, corruption, inequality, and violence of they have to live in their home countries. The worst part is that most of these terrible things is that happen in third world countries are rooted in constant subversion by developed countries, primarily the US. I feel like since we caused this (even if in part) we should help stop it now, even if we didn’t publicly admit guilt to save face.

So, how do we do it? Do we straight up invade Mexico and go on a full out war against the cartels like we did against Osama Bin Laden?

If not, why not? And, is there anything that can be done?

I would like to keep things civil. Please, let’s keep this respectful as I know this is a tough issue and there is anger on both sides of this issue.

Surp, (edited )

Probably nothing. Mexican citizens will have to rise up and it won’t be without loss. It will legit be civil war. You can’t stop people from wanting drugs.

ani,

Full scale invasion and death penalty

Etterra,

Decriminalize the use of currently illegal drugs, and increase penalties for the dealing of illegal drugs. Then increase funding for the medical treatment of addiction. And homelessness. And food insecurity. Too bad none of that will ever happen, since our stupid government prefers to solve all of its problems with cruise missiles.

ICastFist,
@ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

The obvious answer: Start producing locally

So, how do we do it? Do we straight up invade Mexico and go on a full out war against the cartels like we did against Osama Bin Laden?

That sure went well, huh? Afghanistan sure is a better place now! Oh, wait…

shinigamiookamiryuu,

We can only hold the problem back as long as Mexico isn’t vigilant enough on them. If I was president, I wouldn’t invade Mexico but I’d definitely be suing them (and then maybe use the money to pay off national debt; what Mexico has been doing surely makes them indebted/owe us, right? Right?)

blahsay,

L E G A L I Z E

Cartels gone overnight. Handle addiction as a medical problem. With legal MDMA, mushrooms, weed and acid, the hard stuff isn’t going to be anywhere near as big an issue as it is currently.

HelixDab2,

That doesn’t stop the cartels, not by a long shot. Ending prohibition in the US didn’t eliminate the organized crime families in the US, it just moved them to different areas of corruption. If it’s not alcohol, it’s drugs. If it’s not drugs, then it’s gambling, tax evasion, prostitution, loan sharking, organized theft, and so on and so forth. And without correcting the underlying issues driving alcoholism and drug addiction in the US–particularly poverty–complete decriminalization would lead to huge problems. Has led to huge problems in some cities.

While decriminalizing drugs would help to a degree, you need to correct the underlying problems that have allowed cartels to amass so much power in the first place, like weak governments, lack of opportunities, and high rates of poverty.

blahsay,

Dude it’s 90% of their income - of course it will hit them. They won’t disappear but believe me legalisation is the biggest thing they fear.

HelixDab2,

All I can do is point to how much power the mob amassed in the US during prohibition, and how long they held that power after prohibition ended. Sure, their revenue took a hit, but they moved fairly smoothly into other areas, and corrupted other power structures in order to build and maintain illicit revenue streams. It wasn’t until the 80s and 90s that the mob families in NYC really saw significant consequences.

As an example? Mozarella cheese on pizza. That was fully controlled by the mob for a long time.

blahsay,

Who cares man? Gambling, prostitution, cheese, trash? Those are legit businesses.

As long they’re out of the murder and dismemberment game that’s the win right?

HelixDab2,

Gambling should never be considered a legit business. IMO casinos et al. should be shut down, for the same reason that payday lenders should be beaten to death in the streets: they’re fundamentally predatory businesses.

The problem with prostitution and organized crime is that it’s not victimless once the mob gets involved. “Bitch better have my money” is a threat; you pay the pimp, or you get beaten, and possibly killed. You want to hire an independent escort? I’m fine with that. But significant amounts of prostitution involve sex trafficking, esp. “agencies” that constantly advertise “new girls”.

All of the businesses that the mob–or any organized criminal gang–is in end up increasing costs due to corruption, and involve the threat of violence if anyone disrupts their money. People that try to compete in sectors controlled by criminal groups tend to end up dead very, very quickly, regardless of what the nature of the business is.

blahsay,

“Prohibition…goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man’s appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes.” - Abraham Lincoln

I get that you personally might have moral issues with gambling etc. but making something illegal doesn’t stop it, it just pushes control into the hands of criminals. Want to give me a single instance where prohibition has ever worked?

If you want to stop cartels legalisation is literally the only path.

HelixDab2,

but making something illegal doesn’t stop it,

That’s… Not a good argument. Child pornography and prostitution is illegal because it’s morally reprehensible, and incredibly, profoundly harmful to children. Same with murder, robbery, theft, etc. By definition, anything that is illegal is going to be done–or controlled–only by people that are criminals.

Does prohibition stop those things entirely? No, of course it doesn’t. But it gives society tools to fight against them in a way that decriminalizing does not.

blahsay, (edited )

Prohibition doesn’t give society tools, it removes them.

Take prostitution. Legalisation immediately leads to registration of hookers (blocking most human trafficking), gives oversight to inspectors, forces safety standards, allows for checks on welfare etc… It also removes criminals from the chain, pimps, violence, drugs etc… If you do a little research on this you’ll see it’s the better option. If you are a moral person your imperative should be on keeping all parties safe. And you have to realise prohibition never stops it.

Draedron,

The US could stop buying the drugs or stop supplying the weapons. The CIA was heavily involved in the creation of the cartely so the US should stay the fuck out of it. Whenever you try to fix stuff you make it worse. Mostly because you only act like you try to fix it while at the same time looking how to profit from it.

PP_BOY_, (edited )
@PP_BOY_@lemmy.world avatar

While it’s true that the U.S. is the most convenient market for Mexican cartels, it’s worth knowing that it’s far from the only one. Mexican drug cartels have major connections to markets across the globe. and that Mexico specifically is the de facto administrator of drug trade in the western world. For example, a drug bust in India found fentanyl that had been purchased in Mexico from China. . That’s not the sort of arrangement that the US can ever hope to do away with through domestic legislation without undermining the autonomy of dozens of states around the globe.

While removing the cartels’ access to the American market via decriminalization would certainly take away a lot of funds, let’s not act like black market operations don’t exist in legal markets anyway.

In this hypothetical situation where the US is responsible for Mexico’s drug cartel problem (which I disagree with), I don’t think the road to success ends at the US legalizing drugs.

HurlingDurling,
@HurlingDurling@lemmy.world avatar

This is true, another example is Ecuador who is fighting an incredible surge in gang violence because the Mexican cartels are now operating in the south American country.

TheGalacticVoid,

When there’s a clean supply of drugs green-lit by a superpower like the US, wouldn’t it naturally be exported to other countries? Sure, the cartel would still exist, but for the drug trade specifically, better availability of safe, quality drugs internationally would reduce international demand for cartel drugs, no? Wouldn’t other countries start manufacturing said drugs to import into the US as well, making it easier to fill the black market with regulated products?

paf,

“do we straight up invade… like we did…” Do you know the mess that actually comes from there? And How much it had enforced extremist behaviour in other countries.

“What US needs to do?” Start by taking care of your own issues like guns, they will inevitably end up in dark market serving cartels and others, it would also stop massive killing happening in your own country at the same time… Priorities to education and healthcare, Stop invading countries (can’t remember last US invasion which was actually useful…), start supporting smart guys instead of bad/extremist guys so they don’t get more powerful (exemple: Masoud instead of Bin Laden in Afghanistan against Russia).

Floufym,
@Floufym@lemmy.world avatar

Had to scroll way to long to find this. Funny to see how Americans think imperialism is a solution.

« Best way to help Mexico ?» stop capitalism and switch to a social system.

tyler,

The majority of illegal immigration into the US has nothing to do with walking across borders anywhere. It’s people overstaying their visas, and they got to the US on a plane. The whole Republican thing about immigrants marching across the borders is one of the most fantastical stories they’ve made up to make democrats look bad.

Bye,

People are posting all kinds of ridiculous solutions that they know are impossible. Legalize drugs. Use less drugs. The cartels run more than just drugs! They run fucking avocados!! And electronics!! They have diversified. Never mind that it’s politically impossible to do anything like that. It can’t happen.

Invading Mexico and shooting the cartels CAN happen. It gives money to the defense industry, which itself is enough reason that it could happen. It’s probably even in the USA’s best interest to try and de-corrupt Mexico (never mind that this would be a bloody mess with huge loss of life). My point isn’t that it’s a good idea, it’s that it’s a solution that could actually happen in real life.

Reverendender,

There are definitely some good ideas in this thread, I would like to know, however, where I can go to escape the crime, violence, inequality, and corruption in the United States?

HurlingDurling, (edited )
@HurlingDurling@lemmy.world avatar

Canada? IDK

I guess we keep going up right? /jk

But seriously, it’s very concerning how much worse the corruption in the US is getting

Reverendender,

Definitely. It’s built right into the system. Fucking lobbying. How does any rational person let that continue? We need the zombie of Teddy Roosevelt to run in ‘24.

(Is there a high demand for process managers with decent AI skills in Canada?)

BlueLineBae,

From what I understand, the US is actively investing in the Mexican economy right now in order to both shift our manufacturing reliability away from China and also to provide economic stability in Mexico to shift power away from the cartels. Please take this with a grain of salt as I do not remember where I read this and cannot provide a source. But from what I recall, the long term plan is to setup manufacturing in Mexico for the above reasons with the bonus of reducing shipping costs, time, and shipment vulnerability. I really hope it works, because if you think about it, it just makes sense all around. If we make Mexico our biggest trade partner, we both benefit in big ways. And the more options people have in Mexico for jobs, the less they have to rely on the cartel.

Aside from that, I used to agree that legalizing drugs would take the market away from the cartels, but then you have to remember that the cartels have since diversified. So stop eating Haas avocados??? I don’t know, I’m just a graphic designer ¯_(ツ)_/¯

TWeaK,

That’s exactly true, I can only imagine it isn’t widely published because the GOP would rather rant and rave about TEH IMMAGRINTS!! and take any opportunity to say the government isn’t making things better. Meanwhile, a Republican President (you know which one) would rather sell even more production to China with no checks whatsover in exchange for a very cheap bribe.

BlueLineBae,

I think what kick-started this was all the tariffs that were implemented under the Trump administration. It led corporations to move their manufacturing to other countries and in the process, it was generally discovered to work best to move manufacturing to Mexico. Now under Biden, they are trying to actively encourage moving things from China to Mexico.

TWeaK,

BUT THE WALL!!

someguy3,

Universal healthcare in the US if breaking bad is right.

Adalast,

I would also add “Repeal Section 1” to this list. Let Philip Morris, Phizer, and their ilk deal with the problem. The cartels think they have power, they have no idea.

HurlingDurling,
@HurlingDurling@lemmy.world avatar

Never heard of this, do you have more information on this section 1?

I’m going to search it up myself, but if you have a good source, please share a link.

Adalast,

I meant schedule 1. My brain is much today. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK538457/

HurlingDurling,
@HurlingDurling@lemmy.world avatar

Ah gotcha, makes sense, and I absolutely agree, however we still need some form of control on the sale and distribution (like what we have on alcohol for example), as well as a system to be able to help addicts with the medical help they need to get out of addiction.

TWeaK,

Wtf is Section 1??? That’s not specific enough.

Adalast,

Ah, my bad. Feeling like crap today. Schedule 1. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK538457/

TWeaK,

No worries.

I think you’re referring to the Controlled Substances Act, which details all the shit.

Fun fact, all the links I found at the top of a search about this law seem to have “DEA” in the URL, rather than any regular link to actual legislation. It’s almost as if they’re monitoring them. Most of them were broken lmao.

The thing is, a law needs to exist, it just needs to be written by people who don’t chew crayons. I’m not talking about those tasty ones the Marines gnaw on, but the dodgy import ones that the DEA think make them look classy.

In all seriousness, we don’t need to remove the law (which has a pretty solid name) we just need to reclassify all the drugs and change the penalties to be appropriate for the good of society. Possession of anything in general should not be a crime, except for possession of a significant amount of a potentially fatal drug, as such possession could only reasonably point to intent to supply. Supply of fatal drugs (eg fentanyl, maybe certain bath salts or whatever) should remain illegal. Beyond that, recreational drugs would be better legitimised such that any issues with them can be faced in daylight, instead of dark alleyways. Even the worst of the major recreational drugs wouldn’t be all that harmful if people had support around them - certainly no more harmful than alcohol.

However drug policing is literally the DEA’s bread and butter, they’re not going to give up their job for the greater good.

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