How much does a creator's worldview influence whether you use their tech or consume their media?

Watching the drama around kagi unfold and it has me wondering how much you take into consideration a creator’s view on things like homophobia, sexism, racism, etc. when deciding to use a product. I think most of us have a bar somewhere (I would imagine very few on this website would ever consider registering on an altright platform), so where is that bar for you? What about art? Have you boycotted JKR or dropped your opinion about Picasso because they’re transphobic and misogynistic respectively? Is it about the general vibe of a product or piece of media, or are you more discerning? What goes into this decision and why?

bonegakrejg,

Its tricky, because how much do I really know about people’s views who I’ve never met? Especially more famous people who might just be crafting a public image. They might be hiding aspects of thier views that are bad publicity, or just being controversial to drum up attention.

Penguincoder,

Not at all. I’m a user of the product/service, not the creators friend or even acquaintance. If their product sucks, I’m more apt to speak against that. If the persons worldview sucks, that’s their problem; so long as it does not infect their tech or media. If/when it does, that’s a different aspect.

itmightbethew,
@itmightbethew@beehaw.org avatar

As many have said there is no ethical consumption under capitalism, and you can’t know everything about everyone, so no matter what you’re going to end up supporting something unethical at some point.

That being said, all I can do is act on the information I have, and when I learn about some situation like this, I don’t have an easy answer or decision flow chart. But I do ask myself two questions.

How much will my support enable more of the behaviour I find abhorrent? And how much will the knowledge ruin my appreciation of the thing?

I cannot read Ender’s Game even though I always meant to since I found out about Orson Scott Card’s politics about ten years back. And while there’s (somehow) way, way worse people out there the knowledge, especially the holocaust denial, just ruins any enjoyment I could get from the books or movies, regardless of any separate-art-from-artist arguments.

But I am a huge Lovecraft fan, and he was also just the worst. But the guy’s dead, it doesn’t matter if I buy his books or not. And even then despite his popularity across Geekdom he’s a relatively niche author. His views aren’t going to reach a lot of people.

I think this works out differently if the creator is someone current and powerful or influential. If we can blunt the impact of a popular creator spreading toxic views that prevents a lot more bad than than the same frome someone dead or niche. Even if that’s only lack of support, that’s still more.

I guess what I’m saying it is has less to do with the details of the bad views or actions, and more about much my support helps enable those. The less I contribute by watching or buying or clicking, the less I’m concerned about it. Unless it just personally bothers me.

I don’t if that’s the right answer but it’s the once I’ve got right now

MayonnaiseArch,
@MayonnaiseArch@beehaw.org avatar

Well let me just help you about Ender there - imagine an akschyaly clever kid, fedora wearing, huffing their own farts while being annoying on twitter and trying to suck their own dick all day. The image is a pimply kid almost reaching their dick, the cum blasts past their face and hits mein kampf on the spine, the kid goes into a crying diatribe about something.

I think that’s about it really, might have missed a part of the plot

Lionir,

That’s a really hard question for me. It’s mostly a feeling more than a science so it becomes a bit hard to lay it down rationally and I know that doing that will result in weird inconsistencies but if I had to define it, it’s probably these three things.

  1. The influence of the author or vibe

I find myself thinking that if I associate a particular piece of art as the vision of a single person rather than a collective work, I tend to be more critical of that art or product. Rationally speaking, I know Kagi is made by more than one person and I know the same to be true of Brave but the fact that I strongly associate both to, in my view, very concrete people whose ideology is very clearly shown in the product, it becomes very hard for me to dissociate the product from supporting that person. Of course, if the vibe of the product or art is off, I just don’t want to indulge with it - it’s essentially an instant turn off. Sometimes it’s just a little thing but it lives rent free in my mind.

  1. The timeframe

If the person that has an influence is dead, well, I don’t have a feeling of contribution to something bad and I might overlook that dislike for the author.

  1. The need

If I don’t need it and I don’t vibe with the author, well, I won’t buy it. There’s better things out there. On the other hand, if I have no option but to use that product, I might swallow my pride.

Faydaikin, (edited )
@Faydaikin@beehaw.org avatar

It depends. People are allowed to have their own opinions as far as I’m concerned.

If their products are good, I see no reason why I shouldn’t use them. Even if I don’t agree with said opinion.

However, if they are actively making the world a shittier place for others, then I start to have a problem with them.

Like JKR not being pro-trans is just her opinion. And as far as I know, she hasn’t gone on a crusade against anyone yet.

But Blizzard encouraging the sexual harrasment of it’s female employees is a totally different beast. And I didnt feel right keeping supporting them.

But it’s a line everyone has to figure out for themselves.

ondoyant,
@ondoyant@beehaw.org avatar

Like JKR not being pro-trans is just her opinion. And as far as I know, she hasn’t gone on a crusade against anyone yet.

using a large public platform to disseminate the same kinds of anti-trans arguments currently being used by bigots to draft legislation putting trans people at risk is not just an opinion. like, it isn’t a crusade, but when there is a crusade going on and you’re saying the same thing the crusaders are saying, its not a good look.

Faydaikin,
@Faydaikin@beehaw.org avatar

I’m not really up to date on JKR to be honest. It was mostly an example of someone who was asked her opinion, gave it and it pissed people off enough for it to become an issue.

There’s a reason we shouldn’t look to celebrities for answers or anything other than the entertainment they supply.

Fizz,
@Fizz@lemmy.nz avatar

I don’t care if the creator is racist, sexist an asshole or whatever. I only care that their vision for the product aligns with what I want from the product.

FluffyPotato,

It doesn’t effect my decision on what to buy or watch. Like I can’t buy chocolate or just basic groceries without supporting slavery so if some person is a massive asshole it would just be hypocritical to boycott them and not the million worse things that you are basically required to monetarily support just to survive.

I’d probably be more selective if I was rich but I don’t have the time or money to fuss about that.

its_me_xiphos,

Zero. Influencer has a negative connotation to me. I associate it with shock media, cringe, and self-centered hubris. At best it’s a production, meant to create a persona and a market around that.

I don’t want to be influenced, I want to experience art, story, kindness, food, the world all more holistically than through a screen.

RadioRat,
@RadioRat@beehaw.org avatar

As much as I resent it being the way of things, money is power under capitalism. Where possible, I try not to cede mine to people looking to do nefarious things or disseminate shitty ideals. While I don’t have much personally and Kant was a pretentious douche canoe, I’m still idealistically partial to the universal maxim.

Yeah, no ethical consumption under capitalism or whatever but we can try not to prop up people who are brazenly making the world shittier. Thinking our actions don’t matter is how we get complacency.

sculd,

When it comes to creative stuff (non-essential goods), I try to only support people with good conscience.

I have cut Netflix because of what the CEO has said. I have boycotted Ubisoft and Activision games because of the continued harassment issues in the company.

There are things I want to watch or play. But if this means supporting shitty people, I would instead prefer to use those resources to support the people I like. After all, its not like there are lack of entertainment in this world.

For essential goods (supermarket chains, goods made in less developed countries with labour issues, etc.), I am less strict because…well sometimes they are impossible to avoid.

fracture,

ever since kagi expressed that they’re not interested in caring about the effect of LLMs on the environment (kagifeedback.org/d/…/2), i had already hopped off because i could see their talk about “making the world a more humane place” was just talk. so i’m not really surprised to see this shit unfolding either

i’m surprised to see that the dude who replied on my post is actually the kagi guy, though. that’s surprising, i took him for some q&a support mod lmao

but yea i’m trans so i do my best not to support transphobic (or otherwise bigoted) people. seems like it’s in my best interest y’know. and sometimes i don’t know! i was pretty excited for kagi at first blush, it’s really a shame they’re not worth the time or effort

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