We really need to all stop promoting Fedora especially after what Red Hat did to the Community with CentOS and closing the code off from downstream.
Fedora is Red Hat in disguise.
Same goes for Canonical. They’ve decided to screw the Community and try force things on users, Communist style, so they can f right off too!
We should all only use 100% Community based distros and projects because they need our support and break their backs working for the Community.
For example Linux Mint, Debian, Arch, Slackware and others.
If you use Mint like I do, switch to Debian Edition and let the developers know that’s where you prefer that focus first and then do the Ubuntu edition afterwards 👍
That’s why we should stop using them. If they have zero users, they’ll eventually stop the Fedora project and the Community can keep pace with Debian or openSuse. openSuse can easily step into Fedora and Red Hat’s shoes.
OpenSuse is not going to break new ground. It’s all about OBS and testing software before it hits their Paid Enterprise offerings. And they have almost a fully automated procedure for this. OpenSuse is not going to push Wayland only nor what will become the standard. It’s not in their ethos. OpenSuse is there to build SLE’s next release.
Debian being cutting edge?! Never. Debian is Debian, very slow to adopt anything. Debian is about offering a very stable release schedule. Debian will never push the ecosystem forward, it’s not Debian’s goal. You want a reliable system that just works? Debian is inarguably the king.
Agree 100%. And both are 100% Community. openSuse is privately owned and supported by a massive Community.
Debian is perfect for reliability (although opensuse is very reliable) who don’t need the latest and don’t like installing updates all the time. 100% Community based.
Two fantastic, shining examples of the power of Community supported software 💪
You need to understand that Red Hat/Fedora regards the Linux Community as “free loaders”. That’s how they designed described anyone wanting access to Red Hat Server source code.
That’s what they think of you and me and all the great developers who make a lot of the software we use, often in their free time and at no cost.
Most of the distros and software you use on Linux is made and maintained by people who are not paid but do it for the love of Libre open source freedom loving computing for all.
That is the FOSS way. Red Hat/Fedora do not share this view. They see us all as free loaders.
If all the great Devs who contribute so much to GNU/Linux had that attitude, you’d literally have no free distro or apps.
That means no poor third world person would ever have access to an operating system or pc. Only us well off people in the developed world. That’s anti FOSS.
Don’t support ass hats like Red Hat/Fedora who stand against that.
And now we see Canonical also being ass hats but only by including telemetry in Ubuntu, but forcing snaps on end users, blocking flatpak out of the box (you can still install it yourself but newbies won’t know this) and they are aiming to eventually make Ubuntu snap only. Not to mention they worked with Microsoft to make “Linux subsystem for Windows” which is a real insult to Linux and FOSS.
Use Debian and other Community based distros which have zero corporate funding or involvement and are 100% by the people for the people
First of all you’ve swallowed the myth that Fedora users are beta testing for Enterprise software. That said discouraging people from voluntarily beta testing is bad for the community and fundamentally against the spirit of open source.
As a long-time Fedora user I think Red Hat’s backing is good for Fedora because it means they have a solid source of funding. Apart from the resources that gives them, that way they can be entirely user-centric and not be tempted to sell user data, run ads or anything else against the users’ interests.
There’s a lot of hearsay going on around Red Hat at the moment, some of it has grains of truth, some of it has been distorted beyond fact, I’m sorry that you’re a victim of it.
Beta testing is great. Just not when it’s for Red Hat(Fedora), Canonical, Microsoft (WSL) or any other Greedy Corp. when they are requesting this in the spirit of open source.
Not how open source works, you don’t get to choose who benefits from it, it’s for anyone who wants to use it. Ubuntu is downstream of Debian is it not?
Well Red Hat put up a paywall so that only those who they choose, can get the code. That’s the issue. Then they justified it by calling users who want the code “free loaders”. That’s typical proprietary speak, it has no place in open source.
Ubuntu is downstream of Debian. But canonical have taken it, forced snaps on users, forced opt out telemetry in users and removed default flatpak support. All very user hostile moves.
Hence I’m calling the community to show these corps we don’t need them and community distros have everything we need while protecting user freedom.
Remember what I said about hearsay? Everything in Fedora is FOSS, everything in RHEL is also FOSS (because it’s in CentOS Stream). All the code is released, not behind a “paywall”. All that Red Hat have done is make it more difficult for companies to sell a 1:1 “bug for bug compatible” RHEL clone - those are the “free loaders” being spoken of and who they’re targeting, not the Linux community, it’s people like Oracle (who incidentally are also the ones fanning the flames of this drama).
I’m no fan of Canonical, but even with your description you’re really sensationalising things there as well. The point is by supporting Debian you’re inadvertently supporting Canonical - I don’t think that’s a problem myself but it seems you have double standards.
I would like to quote for you from Gnu.org, Richard Stallman’s organization that invented the idea of free software. Here he explains what that means. I’ll link to the full webpage below.
“Actually, we encourage people who redistribute free software to charge as much as they wish or can.** If a license does not permit users to make copies and sell them, it is a nonfree license.** If this seems surprising to you, please read on.
The word “free” has two legitimate general meanings; it can refer either to freedom or to price. When we speak of “free software,” we’re talking about freedom, not price. (Think of “free speech,” not “free beer.”) Specifically, it means that a user is free to run the program, study and change the program, and redistribute the program with or without changes.”
Why would this be a good thing at all? One of the main goals of the ecosystem is to have multiple choices, and as others in this thread has mentioned, Fedoras made significant progress for the adoption of Linux as a whole
Because you’d be helping Community distros get better, as well as financially, instead of supporting corporations that use you as beta testers to improve their paid corporate product and then screw you over when you want access to the server code.
I still don’t see how having the choice is a bad thing. If you don’t like Red Hats position, then don’t use Fedora. For those that believe using Fedora will help better the Open Source ecosystem, they have the ability to do so.
Getting rid of a choice completely because you don’t agree with a position in a nuanced conversation seems childish
I’m not saying it will be banned, you can still use it but I’m calling the community to return to community distros like Debian who are 100% libre and user freedom respecting… Plus there many dedicated developers and other volunteers who support this out of love for FOSS and the principles of free computing for all.
That’s not childish. It’s a call to get back to our roots. Use Community distros, volunteer your time if you have the skills they need, make a money donation to thank them and help the project keep going. That’s how FOSS is supposed to work.
Fedora is community based and “independent” from RedHat.
In the past, they often actively decided against RHs interests and will continue doing that in the future.
Independend in " because RH puts lots of dev power and $ into the Fedora Project, and loosing that would hurt.
It’s a symbiotic relationship: RH provides money and developers, while we as users test for new technologies that will get used for RHEL in the future.
The increased ressources provides us with more (also financial) security. Still, if RH somehow decides to abandon Fedora, it will still continue to live on, see Project uBlue as example.
Also, calling everything you dislike “communist” is just dumb, there are way better words for that… Either, you use communism in the terms of “totalitarian government” like Stalin was, which is just… unfitting (Holodomor, etc.); or you don’t get that promoting community based distros is more socialist than you realize.
Just say “I don’t like stuff forced on me from corporations like Canonical” and don’t use Ubuntu and thereof. Nobody hinders you in using what you want, and that’s great!
The reaction is funny too, because in my experience comparing communities of various distros, Fedora’s community is among the the most inviting and professionally-behaving of them.
Personally, I am not running Fedora at the moment, but probably will when my Framework 16 arrives, since Fedora is officially supported on it. And to be honest, I find that I am making the same choices with Arch as Fedora would have made for me (aside from bootloader), so I feel that I’m wasting a bit of effort.
Now I understand why some people in the comments from other platform said “Fedora is the new Ubuntu”; in popular perspective today! Loud applause to the Fedora Dev team! Respect.
As KDE F38 user, this is a super boring release. Nothing noteworthy for us to look forward to except LibreOffice 7.6 - which you can get via Flatpak anyways. I was hoping the new DNF 5 would make the cut, but guess it’s still not ready yet. :(
Guess will have to hold out my excitement until F40 for Plasma 6 and DNF 5 (hopefully).
I thought dnf 5 wont come with fedora 40 because that coincides with the next RHEL release so they want both of them to ship the stable and tested dnf version.
I am thinking of switching from Linux Mint to Fedora. I have always liked Fedora, but have been bitten by some BS like NVIDIA drivers not working and some programs only available as a .deb file (I know about alien… or do I?)
I love GNOME DE, has that modern “I work on a spaceship” feel.
I mostly do music production and some gaming, so pipewire seems intriguing.
Here is the real question: Should I got Silverblue? I just learned about distrobox, so maybe that is my solution for programs I cannot get through flatpak?
You can install silverblue, and then rebase to ublue ( universal-blue.org ). Specifically to the “silverblue-nvidia” variant, and you should get a nice silverblue experience without any of the nvidia struggles, as people at the ublue project take care of that stuff for you.
And yes, distrobox is the goto solution to run stuff that is basically ubuntu-only, or by extension bound to any distro variant / version and not flatpak. This includes graphical applications. Distrobox works great, I do all my work in it.
Oh, I totally misunderstood the OS. I was under the impression that using os-tree should be totally avoided for anything other than necessary system programs, and all other software should be installed with flatpaks or containers.
I now understand that using os-tree for some programs is inevitable, and I should embrace it, though still catiously to maintain as clean of an OS as possible for maximum longevity.
I was under the impression that using os-tree should be totally avoided for anything other than necessary system programs
Interaction with ostree directly shouldn’t occur that often; with sudo ostree admin pin *number* (and its -u option) probably being the commands your average Joe should interact with. You probably meant rpm-ostree.
and all other software should be installed with flatpaks or containers.
It’s indeed true that initially Fedora intended flatpaks should be preferred. If the software isn’t available there, then Toolbx(/Distrobox) is used to access it through a container. And if all else fails, then it’s layered through the rpm-ostree command.
I now understand that using os-tree for some programs is inevitable, and I should embrace it, though still catiously to maintain as clean of an OS as possible for maximum longevity.
You’re getting the drill! Though, I wonder why you weren’t able to rebase to uBlue and had to resort to installing the Nvidia drivers through RPM Fusion instead. It’s fine as long as it works, but I imagine that some issues might arise eventually. So consider sharing the steps you took so that the community might help out; perhaps even over at uBlue Discord. You could also just share it here if you will.
I think the key is restarting at every step it asks you to, and maybe after anything that seems major or is a prerequisite for another set of program installs. I mean, I got a black screen the first time, but after a hard reset, it just worked.
No doubt UBlue is probably a lot easier. I did not realize I could have just downloaded the ISO instead of trying to rebase, but I like what I am running.
Anyways, doing it the hard way is helping me learn the intricacies of an immutable system, so I am having fun.
Indeed, in your case acquiring uBlue through its ISO was probably the best option; but I’m glad to hear that it worked out in the end!
Anyways, doing it the hard way is helping me learn the intricacies of an immutable system, so I am having fun.
Well said!
Just in case; consider the following:
Pin your current working deployment with the aforementioned sudo ostree admin pin 0 command. After which it remains accessible regardless unless you unpin it later on. This should allow you a working deployment if all else fails and thus a safe haven to rely on.
I saw that the image was failing to build, so I took a chance and followed the RPMFUSION guide and installed it successfully. I am learning to use toolbox for CLI stuff, but now I am going to learn about Distrobox!!
For every major Fedora update I’ll try to perform the upgrade from the Gnome Software app just to see if it works, and every time it breaks and I fall back to good ol’ dnf system-upgrade. This is the first time upgrading from Software worked for me, and it was fast too. Nice to see all the Software improvements finally paying off.
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