Kbin_space_program,

Not just the bees, all bugs in North America have seen a 75% die off in the last 20 years.

Big shocker that songbirds, which eat those bugs, have also seen a massive die off.

Despite those deniers that still blame housecats, the true culprit is almost certainly pollution and pesticides.

LordKitsuna,

I’d say and cars just think about how many bug splatters you see on an average decent trip on the highway now multiply that by the millions of cars on the road daily. It’s not the root cause but it certainly didn’t help

Gormadt,
@Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

My car used to look terrible after a drive to the local wilderness area, now I’ll be lucky to see one smack my window per trip.

Kbin_space_program,

Oh certainly can't help. But we know that the pesticides and herbicides have carryon effects to unintended species. Ones that the parent companies that invented them didn't report on because they don't kill those species. Ones that don't necessarily kill them, but lead to things like the white nose fungus running amock in bats, or lead to Colony Collapse Disorder or other infections in bee colonies.

kbotc,

Why would white nose fungus and pesticides be linked in the slightest? The issue with that is tourists who don’t want to admit they’ve been driving from national park to national park visiting each cave along the way without sanitizing anything. Same reason Zebra Mussels are spreading so rapidly. Just like people blaming 5G for COVID: It’s easier to externalize blame rather that come to terms with the, frankly, minuscule amount of spores that are needed to destroy the entire roosting colony.

crispy_kilt,

Same in Europe

cobra89,

Despite those deniers that still blame housecats

Both things can be true. They aren’t mutually exclusive.

Also we have less pollution and pesticide use than we did in the 60s and 70s. Why is it just becoming a problem now?

DrCatface,
@DrCatface@lemmy.ml avatar

less pollution? that cannot possibly be true. according to dr google 1970s world population was 3.7b, now we’re more than double that

Redscare867,

I’m the US, the EPA was created in the 1970’s. We definitely have less pollution (of certain types) today than we did in the past. Some notable examples of how disgustingly polluted American skies and waterways were in the past:

The skies of Pittsburgh, PA

the Cuyahoga River fire

Coal Production has also been declining

And then of course less visible examples like the Montreal Protocol stopping corporations from depleting the ozone layer.

My point is in terms of greenhouse gas production we are much higher than in the 60’s and 70’s, but we have massively improved in a lot of areas. Of course there is still room to improve.

theneverfox,
@theneverfox@pawb.social avatar

To put that in perspective, let’s say I drink water contaminated with chemicals for decades. Then, “suddenly”, me and half the people i know are sick with cancer and various side effects decades later…

That’s how environmental toxins work. They accumulate throughout the water cycle and through the food web, and if its less than acute (short term) in effect it statistically hurts a population, such as lowering reproduction or creating birth defects that lower the fitness. Then, once concentrations pass LD thresholds (lethal dose, meaning LD50 will kill half of the individuals of a species on average, LD10 would kill 1 in 10) you start getting mass die offs

Every water table, all of the soil, every living being is riddled with non-naturally occurring substances. Even though we released more damaging toxins in the 80s, the rate of pollution doesn’t matter - the concentration in various parts of the ecosystem is what matters, and that’s a slow process

Turun,

I bet that while we have less general pollution and less dumping trash in the environment kinda things, we have developed much more potent insecticides. And if those insecticides do not degrade within a few weeks they will accumulate in the earth and the water.

Edit: Wikipedia about one type of modern pesticides: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neonicotinoid

bentropy,

Yeah, pretty sure your lawn has almost nothing to do with insects vanishing. It’s much more likely the insane amounts of highly potent pesticides we put directly into our food chain. Those pesticides obviously aren’t classified as pollution so we aren’t polluting, we’re killing the environment on purpose.

Btw. The development and use of neonicotines corelate quiet nicely with the drop in the insects population.

Gormadt,
@Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

House cats are making it worse too

Both things are true

MoodyRaincloud,

Housecats were actually keeping the bird population healthy for decades by eliminating the weak. Of course now that habitat destruction and toxins made entire populations weak it is a problem.

But removing housecats to solve it is akin to drinking out of paper straws to solve plastic pollution. It helps, but it doesn’t do anything substantial.

kbotc,

Why would you say that? Hawks and owls were the “natural” predator of North American song birds and I’ve seen plenty of raptors in my large US city. Not like bobcats are suffering population-wise in urban areas.

FireTower,
@FireTower@lemmy.world avatar

Outside cat / feral cats have had massive negative impacts on bird and small mammal populations. Particularly in areas where they fill an ecological niche that the wildlife hasn’t adapted to due to none of the local fauna being in that niche. Hawaii and Australia in particular have this problem.

MoodyRaincloud,

Those are indeed special situations where cats are basically an invasive species.

Here in Europe the correlation between cats and bird population is not so strong. While destruction of habitat and the crash in insect numbers are the big culprits.

TheSlad,

Im gonna dig a pit in my backyard and make a pond. Its gonna be a lot of work but it will all be worth it when i sit out on my patio in the morning sipping coffee to the sound croaking frogs, buzzing bugs, and chirping birds.

Scubus,

You will want to be careful doing that. It needs to be big enough to have differential temperature so the water moves, therefore aerating it. Without air in the water nothing but mosquitos can live or breed in it. Also, depending on the soil and whether you are above the water line, you may not be able to keep enough water in it between rainfalls.

I’m sure you can look up how to do one properly, I just want to to be aware it’s not as simple as dig a hole and fill it with water, because that will do more damage than good.

TheSlad,

Of course I’ve been doing a lot of research dont worry. And also I’ll be using a pond liner

mrchuckles,

“it’s your neighbors fault for having a lawn!”

meanwhile monsanto……

DagonPie,
@DagonPie@kbin.social avatar

I started doing clover in my yard a year ago and there are so many bees and butterflies now. My neighbor was like “why are you doing that yo your grass??? The previous owners took so long to make that yard look nice”

itsgroundhogdayagain,

what do you do about weeds? does the clover stand up to traffic and dogs?

AngryMulbear,

Anecdotal evidence. There’s a patch of grass on my land next to a public mailbox that I struggled for years to keep from being a mud pit.

Haven’t seen a bare patch of dirt since I planted the clover. Holds up great to foot traffic.

itsgroundhogdayagain,

does the clover spread?

DagonPie,
@DagonPie@kbin.social avatar

Mine has from what I can tell but ive also seeded it a couple times a year.

DagonPie,
@DagonPie@kbin.social avatar

I dont really do anything about weeds anymore. I let the dandelions do their things. I have some patches of crab grass but it doesnt bother me. The clover doesnt grow very high but when it is full bloom you can tell when it is walked on in high traffic. We have wild turkeys too and they will roost on the clover and it leaves imprints in the ground but it springs back after a day or so.

WillyWonksters, (edited )

I couldn’t find a source for this, but I heard that we were convinced to think of dandelions as weeds by the makers of a herbicide so that we would accept the collateral damage.

OutlierBlue, (edited )

Dandelions were brought to North America as a food crop. We can eat every part of the plant. They’re an invasive species, but not what I would consider a weed.

Catsrules,

Anything can be a weed. All a weed is it a plant growing is the wrong spot in the eyes of a human.

OutlierBlue,

Agreed, but Monsanto would love us to believe all kinds of plants are weeds so we buy their chemicals.

A field of dandelion flowers is beautiful.

kbotc,

And also, a field of invasive species that drove out the native plants… Just saying.

AngryMulbear,

Lol, you don’t put Roundup on your lawn unless you don’t want a lawn anymore.

2,4D is the stuff that kills “weeds” but not grass.

WillyWonksters,

Oh ok, I must have remembered wrong. I edited to be less specific.

WillyWonksters,

Oh ok, I must have remembered wrong. I edited to be less specific.

DagonPie,
@DagonPie@kbin.social avatar

Theres only one plant in my yard i consider a “weed”. It grows almost like a carrot or a parsnip. But it grows a long thick root straight down and has a small leafy part on top. And when you pluck them out it leaves a cone shaped hole. No clue what it is but ive been calling it a tuber lol

IMALlama,

We have a chemical free yard that I also plant clover in. The high traffic areas are more clover than grass, which makes me think it holds up better. The clover also turns green earlier in the spring and stays green longer of we’re having a dry spell in the summer. Clover helps keep the grass happy and the pair seem to do a decent job keeping dandelions down, but we have them in our yard too. They don’t bother me at all personally and our kids like them. Thistles are not that common in our yard, but when they pop up I’ll spot treat them since they’re painful to walk on.

astraeus,
@astraeus@programming.dev avatar

“Why are you destroying your yard with an abundance of bees and butterflies? This isn’t fantasy land we need nothing but grass here to look nice”

DagonPie,
@DagonPie@kbin.social avatar

When I moved in the grass was pretty close to the picture in the meme. I liked it at first but then I realized how expensive it was going to be to upkeep and how bad it is for the local ecosystem. I have successfully undone most of that work literally just by planting clover and not mowing down to the bone.

astraeus,
@astraeus@programming.dev avatar

If only everyone realized that grass is just a weed and not worth the maintenance and effort we put into it, it’s sad how ubiquitous it is in some places

Gormadt,
@Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

And a lot of the times the grasses planted in the US is an invasive species

sheppard, (edited )
@sheppard@feddit.uk avatar

The EU has uncultivated land subsidies. To avoid overproduction of food and overexploitation of the land, the EU pays farmers to keep their land uncultivated. Some countries, like mine, force farmers to uncultivate their land once every N years, and, of course, they get subsidies for this.

In my region, farmers will plant flowers and let weed grow, since they’re not putting any pesticide. They let the flowers and weeds die and rot at the end of the season. This way, they dont have to put as much fertilizer the next year. I’ve always seen these uncultivated fields full of bees and other pollinators in summer.

kbotc,

That happens in the US too. It’s why there’s New York addresses that own huge “fields” of land that’s usually a wetland. The marginal land is protected and they get a corn subsidy from the government to not farm the land.

Potatos_are_not_friends,

Is there a nolawns community here?

Weirdly enough, it’s small on reddit, and the biggest are on Facebook ¯_(ツ)_/¯

baseless_discourse,
EditsHisComments,

Facebook users typically skew older, so people that are more likely to have established careers, larger spaces and yards to work on. I feel like a lot of Redditors and Lemmings are young and live with parents or in apartments, and are thus less likely to have a yard to care for.

That being said, anyone with a deck or porch can pot a plant or two to try and help local pollinators.

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