Why docker

Hi! Question in the title.

I get that its super easy to setup. But its really worthwhile to have something that:

  • runs everything as root (not many well built images with proper useranagement it seems)
  • you cannot really know which stuff is in the images: you must trust who built it
  • lots of mess in the system (mounts, fake networks, rules…)

I always host on bare metal when I can, but sometimes (immich, I look at you!) Seems almost impossible.

I get docker in a work environment, but on self hosted? Is it really worth while? I would like to hear your opinions fellow hosters.

possiblylinux127,

Well docker tends to be more secure if you configure it right. As far as images go it really is just a matter of getting your images from official sources. If there isn’t a image already available you can make one.

The big advantage to containers is that they are highly reproducible. You no longer need to worry about issues that arise when running on the host directly.

Also if you are looking for a container runtime that runs as a local user you should check out podman. Podman works very similarly to docker and can even run your containers as a systemd user service.

msage,

I have VMs on my metal, one specific for containers.

Though I use LXC. Docker started with LXC, then grew bigger, and I don’t like how big it is.

If I can set up one simple NAT and run everything inside a container, I don’t need Docker.

Docker’s main advantage is the hub.

avidamoeba,
@avidamoeba@lemmy.ca avatar

In short, yes, yes it’s worth it.

specseaweed,

I know enough to be dangerous. I know enough to follow faqs but dumb enough to not backup like I should.

So I’d be running my server on bare metal and have a couple services going and sooner or later, shit would get borked. Shit that was miles past my competence to fix. Sometimes I’d set up a DB wrong, or break it, or an update would screw it up, and then it would all fall apart and I’m there cursing and wiping and starting all over.

Docker fixes that completely. It’s not perfect, but it has drastically lowered my time working on my server.

My server used to be a hobby that I loved dumping hours into. Now, I just want shit to work.

oranki,

Portability is the key for me, because I tend to switch things around a lot. Containers generally isolate the persistent data from the runtime really well.

Docker is not the only, or even the best way IMO to run containers. If I was providing services for customers, I would definetly build most container images daily in some automated way. Well, I do it already for quite a few.

The mess is only a mess if you don’t really understand what you’re doing, same goes for traditional services.

knobbysideup,
@knobbysideup@sh.itjust.works avatar

I concur with most of your points. Docker is a nice thing for some use cases, but if I can easily use a package or set up my own configurations, then I will do that instead of use a docker container every time. My main issues with docker:

  • Containers are not updated with the rest of the host OS
  • firewall and mounting complexities which make securing it more difficult
MigratingtoLemmy,

Docker can be run rootless. Podman is rootless by default.

I build certain containers from scratch. Very popular FOSS software can be trusted, but if you’re as paranoid, you should probably run the bare-minimum software in the first-place.

It’s a mess if you’re not used to it. But yes, normal unix networking is somewhat simpler (like someone mentioned, LXC containers can be a decent idea). Well, you’ll realise that Docker is not really top-dog in terms of complexity when you start playing with the big boys like full-fledged k8s

SpeakinTelnet,
@SpeakinTelnet@sh.itjust.works avatar

I’ll say that as someone who stopped using docker and went back to deploying from source in lxc containers: dockers is a great tool for the majority of people and that is exactly what it aims to be, easily reusable in as many different setups as possible.

On the flip side, yes it may happen that you would not benefit from docker for a reason or another. I don’t, in my case docker only adds another layer over my already containerized setup and many of the services I deploy are already built from source in a CI/CD workflow and deployed through ansible.

I do have other issues with docker but those are usually less with the tool and more with how some project use docker as a mean to replace proper deployment documentations.

aleq,
@aleq@lemmy.world avatar

the biggest selling point for me is that I’ll have a mounted folder or two, a shell script for creating the container, and then if I want to move the service to a new computer I just move these files/folders and run the script. it’s awesome. the initial setup is also a lot easier because all dependencies and stuff are bundled with the app.

in short, it’s basically the exe-file of the server world

runs everything as root (not many well built images with proper useranagement it seems)

that’s true I guess, but for the most part shit’s stuck inside the container anyway so how much does it really matter?

you cannot really know which stuff is in the images: you must trust who built it

you kinda can, reading a Dockerfile is pretty much like reading a very basic shell script for the most part. regardless, I do trust most creators of images I use. most of the images I have running are either created by the people who made the app, or official docker images. if I trust them enough to run their apps, why wouldn’t I trust their images?

lots of mess in the system (mounts, fake networks, rules…)

that’s sort of the point, isn’t it? stuff is isolated

corsicanguppy,

It looks great on a resume, even if there’s a risk you’ll land a job involving it.

scrubbles,
@scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech avatar

I’ll answer your question of why with your own frustration - bare metal is difficult. Every engineer uses a different language/framework/dependencies/whathaveyou and usually they’ll conflict with others. Docker solves this be containing those apps in their own space. Their code, projects, dependencies are already installed and taken care of, you don’t need to worry about it.

Take yourself out of homelab and put yourself into a sysadmin. Now instead of knowing how packages may conflict with others, or if updating this OS will break applications, you just need to know docker. If you know docker, you can run any docker app.

So, yes, volumes and environments are a bit difficult at first. But it’s difficult because it is a standard. Every docker container is going to need a couple mounts, a couple variables, a port or two open, and if you’re going crazy maybe a GPU. It doesn’t matter if you’re running 1 or 50 containers on a system, you aren’t going to get conflicts.

As for the security concerns, they are indeed security concerns. Again imagine you’re a sysadmin - you could direct developers that they can’t use root, that they need to be built on OS’s with the latest patches. But you’re at home, so you’re at the mercy of whoever built the image.

Now that being said, since you’re at their mercy, their code isn’t going to get much safer whether you run it bare-iron or containerized. So, do you want to spend hours for each app figuring out how to run it, or spend a few hours now to learn docker and then have it standardized?

ericjmorey,
@ericjmorey@programming.dev avatar

What makes it make sense in a work environment?

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