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bogdugg, to asklemmy in What's the best response to someone who believes in hard determinism but also uses this to deny responsibility for any immoral actions they commit?
@bogdugg@sh.itjust.works avatar

What drives the thing that drives the hammer? What drives the thing that drives the thing that drives the hammer? What drives the thing that drives the thing that drives the thing that drives the hammer?

Physical processes out of our control.

bogdugg, to asklemmy in What's the best response to someone who believes in hard determinism but also uses this to deny responsibility for any immoral actions they commit?
@bogdugg@sh.itjust.works avatar

Doesn’t that imply that people have the ability to change their behavior?

My answer changes depending on your meaning but:

Of course. My brain is constantly updating and improving itself. I’m just not ultimately in control of how that process happens. Though that does not mean that I should stop living. I can still experience and enjoy my life, and ‘choose’ to improve it. It’s just that the I that made that choice is a consequence of my brain calculating optimal paths based on a myriad of factors: genetics, culture, circumstance, biological drives, personal history, drugs, etc.

bogdugg, to asklemmy in What's the best response to someone who believes in hard determinism but also uses this to deny responsibility for any immoral actions they commit?
@bogdugg@sh.itjust.works avatar

One interpretation would be Many Worlds; that is, every quantum possibility is real in its own multiversal branch. So, to assign moral agency you would need to show that I chose the world I’m in now, over some other version of my life in which different choices were made. Although, I’m not certain you even need to go that far: I have no idea to what degree quantum randomness can actually affect our choices. But, in any case, that too would be out of our control.

bogdugg, to asklemmy in What's the best response to someone who believes in hard determinism but also uses this to deny responsibility for any immoral actions they commit?
@bogdugg@sh.itjust.works avatar

I’m a fairly hardcore/radical determinist, and tend to agree that individuals shouldn’t be held morally responsible for actions, any more than a hammer is morally responsible for driving a nail. However, that does not mean people should be free from consequence. There are plenty of reasons - even as a hardcore determinist - to hold people to account for their actions, either as a social corrective mechanism, public safety, deterrent, or personal sanity.

As for getting their actions to align with your morals, that’s a more complicated question that depends on the type of person they are.

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