cyclohexane

@cyclohexane@lemmy.ml

West Asia - Communist - international politics - anti-imperialism - software development - Math, science, chemistry, history, sociology, and a lot more.

This profile is from a federated server and may be incomplete. Browse more on the original instance.

cyclohexane,

Hamas targeted military facilities and personnel, and civilians were caught in the crossfire when Israel fired at them.

Israel specifically targets civilians and massacres them. Even children. They burn them alive and torture them. Hamas is the last group left putting up a fight against this genocide. Hamas is not even a fraction of the concern that Israel is.

cyclohexane,

Because they aren’t.

Israel is genociding Palestinians, and Hamas is resisting them.

If innocents are caught in the crossfire of Hamas resisting, then Israel is to blame, not Hamas. Israel targets civilians, Hamas was targeting the military.

cyclohexane,

Hamas does not really have a propaganda machine. Israel does.

cyclohexane,

You’re surprised that a dance rave that was held 10 minutes outside the border of a concentration camp and active war zone got caught in the cross fire?

It was held in Re’im kibbutz, which is right next to the the Re’im Israeli military base.

cyclohexane,

The rave had many Israeli military soldiers positioned, and they fired at the Palestinian resistance forces heading to Re’im base and skirmished with them, putting the ravers in the crossfire.

cyclohexane, (edited )

Gunmen chased fleeing revellers across the desert, shooting and snatching people

They moved people off the battle field and kept them hostage, yes. They did not target and shoot civilians, the IDF put the ravers in crossfire when they engaged the Palestinian resistance. There’s plenty of footage of the incident online, and none of it shows that. I’d be happy to be proven wrong; show me evidence. If all you have is “trust me bro” from the Israeli government and media, who have a proven track record of lying (and already admitted that they lied about this latest Hamas operation), then your claims are to be ignored.

cyclohexane,

You mean the dance rave held at the gates of a concentration camp and active war zone? The one with many Israeli soldiers positioned and decided to skirmish the Palestinian resistance, and put the ravers in crossfire?

Arab Israeli population went from 1.5M to 2M since 2006

That’s because of their high birth rate. 45% of Palestinians are under the age of 15. The genocide numbers are very well documented, but I admire your bravery with genocide denial despite mountains of evidence.

cyclohexane,

Palestine is not a religious entity, and have been in favor of religious coexistence since the very beginning. It is the Zionist state that is exclusive of other religions by design.

cyclohexane,

Yeah, genocide turned out to be much better alternative right?

Either way, the Ottoman empire was on its way out, and the Arabs sought to establish a United state. So whatever the ottomans were doing is irrelevant.

cyclohexane,

yelling of “Allahu akbar”

Saying “God is great” is problematic?

celebrating the death and destruction in Israel

They are resisting against the Zionist state founded on genocide and exclusivism. I don’t see that violating their will for coexistance.

cyclohexane,

You’re gonna have to substantiate that claim. Show me evidence of Palestinians celebrating “killing of civilians at a dance party, or the beheading of babies”. Without evidence, your claim is to be ignored.

By the way, Israel has already admitted that they faked the “beheading of babies” story. Verify your evidence before responding.

cyclohexane,

But how else will capitalist society coerce people into wage slavery? Next up you’re gonna tell me people should not be homeless either?!! What kind of dystopian society is this where everyone has food on the table?!! /s

cyclohexane,

Please feel free to ask any questions! I am happy to answer them all

Can you please cite which part of Wikipedia is saying this?

“Palestine” and “Israel” are two names for the same region, so it doesn’t make sense to be expelled from one into the other. I think there must be a misunderstanding here.

I bet this is referring to certain Arab States expelling Jews during the creation of Israel and the British occupation of Palestine, as a retaliation (which was horrible and stupid and I fully condemn it). But keep in mind this is well into the conflict, when Zionists and British occupation were already well into committing heinous acts and massacres, and that this is Arab States who sympathized with Palestine, not Palestine itself.

What I was referring to was treatment of Jews in Palestine before the Zionist project.

As for Hamas’ anti-semitism, I think some background information is important here.

When it was founded, Hamas was not a popular group by any means. Popular Palestinian resistance groups at the time were socialist and progressive, such as the PFLP and other members of the PLO. Hamas was founded as a Muslim brotherhood affiliate, and its charter had many anti Semitic references.

Israel saw this as a huge opportunity, and it propped up Hamas while fighting off other groups. Fast forward to the 2000’s, every Palestinian resistance group was left defeated, and Hamas was left as the only group left fighting. Palestinians had no choice but to support Hamas.

This was a major change for Hamas. It saw hoardes of Palestinians join its ranks, and most were not ideologically aligned with them. There are even Christians fighting among its ranks. This caused an ideological shift within Hamas. It was even reflected in its new charter in 2017, which dropped anti-semitic rhetoric and said it is fighting against Israel, not because of its religion, but because of the Zionist occupation. You can find this charter translated online easily.

Since then, many Hamas officials reiterated their position that they are not fighting to expel Jews, but against Zionist occupation.

Palestinians today see Hamas as a vehicle for their liberation, and not as an ideological alignment. But even then, most of the people in Hamas do not hold anti Semitic opinions anymore, and we should keep in mind this major shift throughout its history.

cyclohexane,

Didn’t Arabs and Palestinians just flat out refuse to coexist with a Jewish state from the start?

“coexist with a Jewish state” is a bit of a contradictory statement. Arabs coexisted with Jews fine prior to the Zionist project. A Jewish state is by definition a state exclusive to Jews. That’s the opposite of coexistnece by definition, and yes that is exactly why Arabs (Muslims and Christians alike) refused it.

Certainly if they chose to fight,

Resist*. they chose to resist occupation, expulsion from their homes, massacre and genocide.

fight, and lost, then they have to face the consequences which might include losing their land.

Ahh, so if someone fights you for your land, destroys your home and genocides your people, then they’ve earned it?? Well I should not be surprised that someone who lives in a nation founded on genocide thinks this is okay.

yes it’s “wrong” to kick someone off their land, both parties have to at least be reasonable and willing to compromise

“hey man, I know I just took over your home and burned your family alive in front of your eyes. But you gotta be reasonable here and be willing to compromise!”

What more of a compromise do you need beyond coexistence? That’s all Palestinians have asked for, and Israel continues to deny them basic rights, no matter how peaceful they are.

And I end with: Israel bad apartheid state. It is truly that simple.

cyclohexane,

What country are you in?

The US has a large Jewish population by number.

cyclohexane,

Said Jews then set about building a thriving western-style industrialized democracy that was opposed at every turn by an Arab and Islamic population that opposed its very existence

I am pretty sure that they were concerned about being expelled from their homes and massacred, and not because they hated “thriving industrialized democracy”.

cyclohexane,

Wrong about what exactly? What does having Arabs in the military prove (or disprove)?

cyclohexane,

How does the presence of Arabs in Israel’s war machine disprove that? You didn’t answer this question.

There were Jews who fought in the Nazis ranks. Based on your ridiculous logic, the Nazis are inclusive of the Jews (obviously incorrect because your logic is flawed).

There were black people fighting in the US armies as well, even during Jim Crow era.

cyclohexane,

Palestinians who genocided jews for centuries

Source? Highly doubt

Even now normal Muslims live in Israel

Treated as second class citizens, stripped of their rights, and brutalized daily

but those monkeys [Muslims who live in Israel] don’t want to coexist and only want to kill

Source? Highly doubt

Also, calling Muslims or another group “Monkeys” is not allowed in this community. I am warning you. Next time will be a ban.

Look at last statements from their leaders

I have. Nothing strikes me as a fraction of the concern that Israeli statements are.

look at state of people in Gaza

After Israel has been bombarding them, burning them alive, and cutting off essential resources for decades? Man, I wonder why they’re suffering.

cyclohexane,

Your first quotation is not about someone excusing a genocide because it happened a long time ago. They are saying that unlike the US, the current inhabitants in those regions can be traced back to the inhabitants thousands of years ago. Which means there wasn’t a major genocide or displacement of people. I am not endorsing this statement btw, I don’t know enough to confirm it. But it is not a condonation of genocide. It is in fact remarking that a genocide similar to what happened in North America did not happen in those other regions.

As you also wanted to be pointed to a source for genocides on the same or larger scale throughout history

You provided me a list of genocides on Wikipedia. None of them match the genocide against native Americans. Your link proves my point.

I guess I need to spell it out for some

I didn’t ask you to paraphrase or restate your point. I asked you to prove it or provide evidence. But I never expected you to be able to anyways, so don’t worry about it.

cyclohexane, (edited )

close to 100 million native Americans were victims of the genocide by European settlers. EDIT: This is a link to the book “American Holocaust: The Conquest of the New World” by David Sannard

cyclohexane,

It’s a link to a specific page of the book “American Holocaust: The Conquest of the New World” By David Sannard. It’s not a Google doc.

cyclohexane,

The book is well sourced with tons of evidence. If you can invalidate their evidence, I am happy to hear. Otherwise, please drop this discussion. It’s not a good look.

cyclohexane,

someone with a clear agenda

Source? Prove to me that this author cannot be trusted. Otherwise your claim is to be ignored, sorry.

cyclohexane,

You rn

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/72f212d8-aa69-4674-bd70-f1986ba57b8c.jpeg

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • •
  • localhost
  • All magazines
    •
    Loading…
    Loading the web debug toolbar…
    Attempt #