@yogthos@lemmy.ml
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yogthos

@yogthos@lemmy.ml

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yogthos,
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A communist revolution will abolish capitalist relations and allow creation of a government by the working class for its own benefit. If communist relations could be established via cooperatives without using violence then that would’ve happened already. People have tried doing this for over a century now with nothing to show for it. Meanwhile, communist revolutions have actually allowed workers to seize the means of production and turn them towards the benefit of the working masses. At this point I honestly can’t tell if you’re just trolling here.

yogthos,
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The reality clearly demonstrates that investors don’t bother investing in coops. You’ve obviously never actually tried to get investors to invest in a coop.

yogthos,
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I recommend learning a bit about the subject before arguing about it. Cooperatives don’t issue bonds because nobody is going to buy these bonds.

yogthos,
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What do you base your claim that this has not been tried in a convincing way on?

yogthos,
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Again, you’re not the first person to think of this. In practice, it turns out that it’s much easier for traditional companies to secure funding under the financial capitalist system. That’s the world we live in. Lots of people are trying to run cooperatives in all kinds of different ways. In some cases, like Mondragon, they do manage to grow big, but in general systemic pressures favor capitalist structure.

yogthos,
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The problem there is getting the initial seed funding. Investors put money into companies because they want to have control over the company, and they can’t do that with a cooperative. There is a systemic bias towards capitalist company structure because of that.

yogthos,
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Unfortunately, it might also be the spring of fascism there.

yogthos,
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The reality is that it’s much more difficult to get the initial funding for a coop than a traditional company, and it’s not that lots of people haven’t been trying different approaches including the hare brained schemes you floated many times. The fact that you just keep repeating something that’s demonstrably false means that there’s no point continuing this discussion. Have a good day.

yogthos,
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A communist revolution would fundamentally restructure the way society operates which is a far more valuable goal than establishing a network of cooperatives which simply allows people lucky enough to work in these cooperatives to cope better with capitalist repression. These two things aren’t even remotely comparable, and abandoning freedom for all workers because it’s just too darn difficult is a cowardly position to take.

yogthos,
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If you ever try starting a coop you’ll find out how hard it is to get investment in practice. It’s kind of hilarious that you think nobody thought of these obvious things to try before you.

yogthos,
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I mean the most obvious piece slate.com/…/video-tara-reade-mother-joe-biden-lar…I just love how you keep carrying water for this pedo, this is what he does in public when he’s on camera

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/52cc2126-eb99-4876-be7f-bd6026e3776a.jpeg

You’re deplorable.

yogthos,
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you put so much work into your apologia there

yogthos,
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Attacking the victim and defending the rapist is precisely what I’d expect from somebody like you.

yogthos,
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Nothing is actually happening, and I don’t know what you think I’m wrong about. You’re just making up excuses for why nobody has been prosecuted so far. And if you think a bunch of democrats aren’t on that list then you’re as gullible as they get. All your oligarchs are the same and your country is an utter lawless shithole where the rich do whatever they want.

yogthos,
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doing some projecting I see

yogthos,
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There is plenty of collaborating evidence to her claims and what you think she had to gain from chuds like you making her life hell as result I have no idea. You’ve exposed yourself as an utter piece of human garbage here.

yogthos,
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He is a literal rapist, but people like you don’t want to acknowledge it because you have no morals. Go to your workplace and try touching shoulders like that on your coworkers, let me know how long before your rapist ass gets fired for sexual harassment.

yogthos,
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Everybody on the list should be prosecuted, why aren’t the democrats doing that?

yogthos,
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Would probably be easier to go back to using animals at that point. You can make crude batteries without high tech manufacturing, but they’re going to have low energy density and likely gonna be made out of toxic stuff. So not ideal for vehicles.

yogthos,
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Mad Max world has an unreasonably robust gasoline production infrastructure.

yogthos,
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Car batteries last for around 10-20 years, so don’t think that would work out.

yogthos,
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I’m not saying we’re just going to abolish work, but we absolutely could be working far less if we structured our society differently. We’ve had an explosion of automation since the industrial revolution, yet people still work just as much as they ever did. A lot of the jobs we have are just make work jobs. There’s a whole book on the subject even.

Also, the way we do things under capitalism is dreadfully inefficient. Nearly half of the food produced is just thrown out, lots of new goods are sent directly to landfills to keep pries up, there’s shit like planned obsolescence. All to keep the consumerist society going so that a handful of oligarchs can keep raking it in. Not only does this create shitty living conditions for the majority, it’s also fundamentally unsustainable and what’s driving the current climate crisis.

The focus of a socialist government should be to ensure that the purpose of work is to produce things that we need collectively such as infrastructure, food, housing, healthcare, and so on. Producing things should be seen as a cost to society, and we should focus on making things that last and can be repaired. Consumerism needs to be abolished.

yogthos,
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I work remotely, so I’m not affected by this personally, but I recognize that other people just aren’t lucky enough to be able to choose a job that’s close and convenient. Some people simply don’t have a choice in the matter and they take the job they can get.

yogthos,
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It’s not like people choose to have a two hour commute.

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