I think you’re right. But, I’m trying to make my memes inclusive: I don’t bash ubuntu users for the same reasons I don’t beat people already on the ground and refrain from mocking the handicapped.
But what makes ubuntu better as a first distro than mint or fedora? It installs snaps even when you specifically invoke apt, a new user who doesn’t understand the messages will press yes, see that it seemed to work and have issues later that can scare them away from linux.
What I’m trying to say is that we should bash the people still recommending ubuntu.
Eh. Using Ubuntu is nothing like having a mental or physical handicap, or having fallen and gotten knocked down/pushed down.
My issue with Ubuntu is that there’s better distros- even for newbs coming from windows for the first time. The sole argument for Ubuntu is the first reason not to use it. People are installing it because they want something different than windows, after all, and canonical makes the same critical error (IMO) that MS makes: it assumes their users are stupid.
To be honest, I grew up in red hat; I remember trying Ubuntu when it first came out, being told how awesome it was. I found it to be infuriating and horrible. And it has always been so. To me, it’s popularity seems derived more from marketing than from merit.
I like that Linus is so strict on not breaking user space because this obviously aids with compatibility and it’s probably a big part of why rolling releases work.
But I sure hope Linus’ eventual successor won’t be toxic and…cringe. It’s hard to take someone serious when he’s raging this much.
I like that Linus is so strict on not breaking user space because this obviously aids with compatibility and it’s probably a big part of why rolling releases work.
I think kernel still has compatibility with paleolithic glibc enabled by default
Firefox snap doesn’t work with keepassxc browser integration and smart cards randomly, so I uninstalled the default snap on ubuntu, edited configs to make sure it didnt grab snap by default, and then install the deb Firefox.
Every single fucking time I did a distro upgrade, ubuntu uninstalled deb Firefox, rwdis the configs to automatically install snap Firefox, and then reinstalled snap Firefox.
One of the reasons I left windows was because it kept changing my default browser. How is ubuntu any better?
I started my linux journey on ubuntu 11.10. I have some real nostalgia and loyalty to that platform, but I recently gave up on it and switched to fedora because of its relentless self-promotion is snap. I feel like you’d be doing a disservice to recommend it as a gateway into Linux to someone nowadays.
Oooooh, that’d really rub me the wrong way. My wife is still on a Windows PC. She’ll ask my why certain changes she made get reverted, and my default answer is “Microsoft thinks it knows better than you”.
Canonical has a long history of thinking it knows better than you, but funneling everyone into their closed-source walled-garden our-way-or-the-highway gonna-charge-money-the-moment-we-figure-out-the-legality Snap Store sure if the most Microsofty.
Is this also true for headless servers? I’ve been using Ubuntu via SSH for 15 years now and it’s always been fine for me but I’ve also never run the desktop version (for more than a few days anyway.)
I just installed it on a scavenged workstation last month to use as a media server and I didn’t notice anything unusual.
Edit:
While we’re at it, what does the hive mind think I should be using instead for turning old trash PCs into shitty servers? The only thing Lemmy has taught me so far is that Ubuntu sucks and the only truly honorable choice is to quit my job and stop speaking to my family so that I can devote my life to installing drivers on unstable Arch. Also, I’m supposed to buy some thigh-high stockings and learn to tuck apparently?
While we’re at it, what does the hive mind think I should be using instead for turning old trash PCs into shitty servers?
Void. The speed difference is unmeasurable, especially when using old equipment. Plus it still supports x86. If you’re used to the terminal, you won’t notice a difference, trust me… except a lot more speed and less RAM usage.
The only thing Lemmy has taught me so far is that Ubuntu sucks and the only truly honorable choice is to quit my job and stop speaking to my family so that I can devote my life to installing drivers on unstable Arch.
Everything works pretty much out of the box in Void. Hardware doesn’t work? Try installing some of the firmware binary blobs (firmware-intel, firmware-broadcom, etc.). Check the hardware manufacturer and model with lspci or lsusb (depending on how the hardware is connected to the PC). 99% of the time, the thing works after firmware packages are installed 👍.
Also, I’m supposed to buy some thigh-high stockings and learn to tuck apparently?
No, just be open minded to new things and have a reddit account for asking questions/getting support… cuz the Void team didn’t join the protest and their subreddit is still the official help forum for Void.
Industry standard means you can find support for it easily. Void has a wiki but you don’t find a lot of users with void knowledge. Its just something to keep in mind.
I personally go for Debian over Ubuntu as its simpler and doesn’t have a lot of overhead.
Honestly if you don’t have a problem then don’t worry about it. I just have noticed Ubuntu server takes way for resources and the extras such as snap and cloud init add extra complexity
I’ve been dist updating my fileserver for a decade and noticed over the last year or so that I’m using considerably more disk space than I expected on my OS drive. I see a lot of Snap installs (which I’d rather not use), and am getting messages from apt update telling me there’s additional security packages if I switch to some Ubuntu paid subscription or something.
I don’t really care to look more into it. I’ve been meaning to rebuild the hardware anyways, and will probably install Arch or Debian.
I’ve been using it for desktop for the last 2 years and haven’t had any issues preventing me from booting (that werent self-caused). I’m actually quite impressed with how well it works, but I do have what I consider a healthy distrust of the AUR and tend to stay away unless I can’t find a solution to my problem in the official repos.
Agreed 👍 skimmed over allt of comments in this thread and it does seem like most haters don’t have business experience with the os. Of course a different distro will work better and be cleaner. But that only makes sense if you install on a shitty home PC where overhead is a concern or you have all the time in the world to tinker around(looking at you arch). I need something that makes sense, have support and just works. I don’t need a “beginner” distro, I need something that comes with all apps preloaded to get actual work done and does not break everytime someone connects a docking station or tries to switch user (looking at you pop OS). And btw Ubuntu Pro (the ad that someone complained about) makes sense for really long term support on some machines, and it is a great deal.
We used to be 100% windows at work, from servers to workstations to integrated systems. Since last year we are moving some systems away from windows. Not only on old hardware but also on brand new, it just works. And compared to windows 11 it is so stable and makes so much sense. The cost is almost nothing, support is good, the actual data collection makes sense, canonical actually only use it to improve their OS and we are happy to report(windows ACTUALLY want to sell you ads and collect everything probably including you mother’s middle name, and phones home every few seconds)
Ubuntu is good. I use it for work… maybe mostly because it is supported by Dell ( XPS line). The experience have been very stable, looks good, feels good. Maybe minor complaint about the different app formats, I find it confusing when it is not one single format, but both snap and deb packages work well. Connecting to our windows active directory was smoother than on windows 11 machines.
Emphasis on it was. It started to go downhill with Amazon integration and now we have paid security updates. They are holding back developed and available security packages for their OS!
There is no way to still recommend Ubuntu. No need to even talk about the other questionable decisions like snap.
It is a fork, meaning its like ubuntu but with the bullshit that makes ubuntu bad removed. It is completly safe but if you wanna stay clear of any trace of ubuntu at all there is also a debian based version of mint
Pop-os is likely the best ubuntu flavored OS to recommend. It has nice features like solid gaming intergration and an optional tiling manager, all without snaps.
The problem is always having the bad option being enabled by default. Not even the ads are the biggest problem. I didn’t even mention their current ads in the terminal. The problem is the same Microsoft is having now, that your keyboard input gets sent to an untrustworthy third party.
Your comment got cut off. If you wanted to dispute the paid paid claim. It is about Ubuntu Pro, that’s literally all what the basic tier is. We recently even had the case where a patch with a highish CVE rating was only available to subscribers of the service. We also verified that the same patch was already available on Debian. Even without my anecdote it should be obvious why it is bad.
It started when they started including Amazon sponsored results in the menu search really. These days using apt occasionally will install a snap package instead of a deb. It doesn’t give people a good jumping on point and it teaches that linux is more difficult than it has to be.
Linus only reacted this way to people who really should have known better. This isn’t a “here is my first ever patch, I read all the rules and I hope I didn’t break any” situation. The person he is chewing out is a kernel maintainer. They are someone who is experienced and trusted and Linus was rightly angry that this poor quality work was submitted.
However… Linus has also worked a lot on himself in the past few years, fully acknowledging that he shouldn’t behave this harshly when someone fucks up. If the same situation was to present itself today, he would be much more professional, but would probably still be a bit angry and you’d know about it.
Linus is a flawed human being, but credit where it is due, he has worked on some of his character flaws.
I much prefer Windows to MacOS. The fact it is missing decent tiling is a nonstarter. It’s too inflexible for my workflow.
And sure, Windows can be maddeningly inconsistent, but what really destroys the experience is the constant ensh*ttification. I know a lot of people here hate everything about Windows, but for me, it only sucks because Microsoft designs it to suck.
Not only are there ads and (some) first party lockin, I cannot trust they will continue offering updates, paywall feaures, restrict more functionality, or insert stuff like AI to mess up my workflow.
I used to think reliability was just about stability and bugginess, but now I think it is about trust as well.
Another good one is Magnet. Its weakness is that the tiling is manual, but once you internalize the keybindings, it’s good enough. And because it’s manual, it doesn’t screw up your windows like all the others seem to (for me at least).
Sway on Linux beats all of them hands down, though.
Okay… I don’t even like Ubuntu, I’m still pissed at snaps, but I’m going to call it bullshit. OP is being at the very least disingenuous, if not worse (witch hunting).
Ubuntu Pro is a subscription system with the following features:
Extended security maintenance - 10 years of backported features, because enterprise hates dist-upgrade. By then human users upgraded their systems at least once, probably way more.
Live-patching kernel updates - because enterprise hates restart downtime. If it’s your personal machine you simply reboot after installing a new kernel, no biggie.
“Compliance and hardening” - basically a way to ensure that a machine follows a bunch of security protocols irrelevant for human users, and exchanging usability for less surface area in a way that human users wouldn’t want.
Are you noticing the pattern here? It’s junk that enterprise cares about, but you don’t. Canonical is milking corporations.
To make the comparison with airbag vests even worse, Pro is free for personal use, up to 5 machines. So it’s more like Canonical is saying “since we know that stupid bizniz bureaucracy prevents them from regularly replacing airbag vests, we’re willing to repair them for a price. For free if you’re a random nobody, by the way.”
And no, it does not contradict the Ubuntu principle, as your title implies.
And since I can’t be arsed to rebuke this shite being cross-posted to !latestagecapitalism, I’ll do it here. (I apologise to the others for posting politics here.)
The airbag vest part alone would be a good example of late capitalism; the business is clearly seeking to add surplus value to the goods. And since that surplus value cannot come from paying less for the labour of the workers, it comes from the buyers/“subscribers” - transforming the goods into a service, and commodifying personal security.
Ubuntu Pro is not this, as I’ve shown above. But even if it worked somehow like you’re implying that it does, through both threads (i.e. you don’t have ubuntu pro = you don’t get security updates), it would still not be an example of late stage capitalism: security updates are a service by nature, requiring additional labour to be produced, specially when you’re backporting a patch to ancient software.
You literally can’t be a billionaire without exploiting people. If you’re not sharing profits equitably, you’re exploiting your work force; if you ARE sharing profits, then there’s no way you’ll become a billionaire.
A small alteration would be to swap one of the female heads up top with a male, and go “Man, Chad guy never cries about anything. Is he even human?” You can even swap out Chad with chadette, depending on context.
In the same vein, comments like “I’m a big bearded man but I cried…”. As if they need to reaffirm their masculinity when they speak about their feelings in case we suddenly think they turned into a unicorn or something.
Also, crying is not the only way to be sad. Some people regardless of gender just don’t cry easily when sad, doesn’t mean they’re not sad. Some people regardless of gender may not want to cry in front of other people for a movie. Or maybe they’ve already seen the movie alone and sobbed all day the first time but know what to expect the second time. It’s frankly none of your business to judge how other people react to sad things and you certainly do not have enough evidence just looking at them to declare they “have no feelings,” unless their ears are pointy and were the first to develop Warp Drive.
Most people are tech illiterate. Ask them anything but to use a pre installed system or pop in a CD that was given to them (No they can’t burn one themselves) and they’ll fail
Believe it or not, not everyone is intersted in tech. Most people just live out their lives oblivious to how stuff works.
Like me for example, I have almost 0 interest in medicine. The human body is not exactly a black box to me, but I don’t usually remember deseases names and stuff like that, even though some people remember all those things without putting too much effort into it.
Medical stuff is not comparable to OS that you use on a daily basis. Everything just boils down that Windows was pre installed on such a huge amount of machines that “you have to be tech savvy” or whatever to use Linux. And the fact that no one wants to install anything that wasn’t installed the first time, makes it that much harder to switch to Linux. But I believe that we all are slowly spreading the word of Linux more and more with each year. We definitely will have a year of Linux for sure (eventually).
Everything just boils down that Windows was pre installed on such a huge amount of machines that “you have to be tech savvy” or whatever to use Linux.
Yes, I would agree that having Windows preinstalled on almost every brand name PC/laptop there is out there is the main reason why things are what they are.
But, I’d also argue that, from your everyday user’s stand point, Windows is a lot easier to get office work done. Everything is pretty much GUI based, there is no terminal in Windows (cmd and PowerShell are not the terminal, you can’t do everything you can in a GUI in the cmd or in PowerShell, and vice versa, so it’s not the same), so from a regular user’s perspective, things are simpler.
And the fact that no one wants to install anything that wasn’t installed the first time, makes it that much harder to switch to Linux.
Why bother changing something that works and gets the job done 🤷… plus, they gotta learn new things if they did that, why make their lives harder.
Not everyone cares about libre software… or even know it exists.
But I believe that we all are slowly spreading the word of Linux more and more with each year. We definitely will have a year of Linux for sure (eventually).
If this does happen, this won’t be within a year, it will be within several years (or a decade).
But, I do agree that there are changes in a positive direction. Most software products (slosed source ones) now have at least a Debian/Ubuntu .deb package (which wasn’t the case 10 years ago, which wasn’t that long ago) and even do customer support for Linux (but only limited to that particular flavor of Linux which they provide the packages for… not an ideal scenario, but it’s not bad either).
So, yeah, I’m optimistic, but not too much. It might eventually happen, but not in the near future IMO.
Windows is a lot easier to get office work done. Everything is pretty much GUI based
No, most popular Linux distros have every GUI app you need to do your office work. What do you need? Office suite, file manager and browser? Check, check, check. Moreover, you don’t have any office preinstalled on Windows and you even have to buy it (and the OS itself), or create a Microsoft account and use online, feature- and Internet-limited version. (With something like Fedora or Ubuntu you can run the live version from RAM from a USB drive, get done with your work, and you don’t even have to install the OS, let alone buy it.)
Why bother changing something that works and gets the job done 🤷… plus, they gotta learn new things if they did that, why make their lives harder.
The point is that it would work the other way around, if Linux was mainstream (I’m already wet) and Windows was in the minority.
Not everyone cares about libre software… or even know it exists.
Yes.
If this does happen, this won’t be within a year, it will be within several years (or a decade).
We can only dream if this will happen within a year. But decades already have passed and look where Linux is at: dominating server market share, all the IoT devices, government related stuff, developers, free-believers, FOSS enjoyers. We have SteamOS, Steamdeck, other handheld devices that are Linux-based, Proton, Lutris, Wine and other stuff. We have a lot of progress already. Desktop market share year by year does show that Linux and alike take a bigger and bigger cut. Withing a decade, everything will probably run on RISC-V architecture (something already does) and Linux will probably only become stronger and its community and market share will only grow.
Most software products […] now have at least a Debian/Ubuntu .deb package
Well, maybe not most, but definitely noticeable, if you search for/use it. I was very surprised to see Cisco Packet Tracer being available in a native .deb package (surprisingly, no one has created a comparable FOSS alternative thus far).
limited to that particular flavor of Linux which they provide the packages for
Side note. You don’t always need the support, and the packages themselves can and do become available on other platforms. AUR and Nix repositories are the largest ones that have community-created packages that only available on Ubuntu or Fedora, etc.
So, yeah, I’m optimistic, but not too much. It might eventually happen, but not in the near future IMO.
I’m sure the year of Linux will happen before I die, or at least the next generation after me will have it. The progress is really huge and kinda becomes faster with every few years.
No, most popular Linux distros have every GUI app you need to do your office work. What do you need? Office suite, file manager and browser? Check, check, check. Moreover, you don’t have any office preinstalled on Windows and you even have to buy it (and the OS itself), or create a Microsoft account and use online, feature- and Internet-limited version.
Yes, but have you looked at how LibreOffice looks? It looks like MS Office 1997-2003. Personally, I love that, but ask any MS Office user out there that’s not into tech and just wants to get the job done, you’ll always get the same answer, MS Office post 2007 with the ribbon interface is a lot better. People are used to that. If they’d have to chose between spending a little money and learning something new, guess what, they choose spending a little money. I know, it baffles me as well, but numbers don’t lie.
And they usually see the whole MS account tied with office stuff thing as a feature, not as a drawback. Sure, they don’t get to use all the tools that the sute can offer, but who needs calcs in spreadsheets or math equations in a text editor anyway, that’s for geeks 😒.
Basically, if they can write a few words and insert an image here and there, that’s more than enough for most people’s needs. Sure, they pay for that, which they can get for free, but you don’t see LibreOffice ads in Windows, do you 🤷.
Side note. You don’t always need the support, and the packages themselves can and do become available on other platforms. AUR and Nix repositories are the largest ones that have community-created packages that only available on Ubuntu or Fedora, etc.
Thay is what I actually meant, we kinda troubleshoot our own packages, even if they’re repackaged from a closed source deb/rpm. If the dependencies are there and compiled against whatever is needed for the package to run, I don’t really see a reason not to offer support for other distros, or at least make a subforum or whatever for those that want to repackage stuff for other distros, so they can at least gather in one place and discuss issues regarding repackaging, with some guidelines> from the support staff of the product. But unfortunatelly, that’s rarely the case, that was my point.
Except for the fact, that you do that to plenty of other disciplines of life. It is simply that some people need a computer to work, they don’t need one as a hobby. They don’t want to “learn a new thing” they want their machine to output some calculations in excel. Same as you don’t learn woodworking when ordering a table from Ikea, or learning medicine when going to a checkup.
I don’t think I really do. I always want to be able to fix all of the things I own so I always like to understand how they work. I don’t always actually end up learning enough about them but it’s not from lack of curiosity
The same thing might apply to people that just don’t know how to install another OS.
I’ll take my wife as an example, she knows how to work on a computer (Windows) in her sleep. Spreadsheets, documents, media, you name it. But, does she know how to work the command line? Absolutely not. If her Windows license is about to expire, she calls me. Her files get mangled up, she calls me. It’s not her job to know these things, it’s mine, she’s a social worker, I work in IT.
Same as you don’t learn woodworking when ordering a table from Ikea, or learning medicine when going to a checkup.
Maybe I'm different than most, but I DO wonder how that table is made, and I do try to educate myself on how the medicines I take actually work. There's been times I've wasted almost an entire day binging Wikipedia.
I'm not saying I have in depth knowledge of fields outside my own, but I do make an attempt. Like, I'm not a gearhead at all, and I only care about cars being able to take me to work and back. But I do know how internal combustion works, and I have a general understanding of the components of an engine.
You’re an inqusitive mind (so am I) and there is nothing wrong with that.
But, do understand that most people aren’t. Either because they didn’t have proper guidance when they were young or just have no interest in involving themselves in new things, doesn’t really matter, the fact is that, yes, most people don’t really care how stuff works.
You might surround yourself with people that are like you, so you don’t see the other ones. Trust me when I say this, most people are not like you. I’d say about 5 to 10% of people are like you, that’s it.
A day on wikipedia doesn’t get you “installed linux and is actively using it at work” level of knowledge. For cars, the better analogy would be “I can replace the transmission in my car”. Everyone knows how “computers work”. Not a lot of people know how to install a different OS.
Anyone who wants to install a different OS on a regular desktop is able to do it quite easily, if they can read instructions on a website and an hour or two. It’s similar to swapping tires, which is not difficult but it’s important to read up/get shown how to do it.
But maybe I overestimate the difficulty of replacing the transmission.
Personally I’m not tech illiterate; I’m just too lazy to reboot every time I want to hop on the decks and do some DJing or music production. Or play one of the few games that won’t run on Linux. Or watch something in HDR.
I wish there was a way to instantly jump back and forth between OSes with a key combo, without having to resort to any sort of VM fuckery. Like how for a brief moment in the 90s you could buy an expansion card for your Mac that was an entire Windows PC on a single board. You do exactly what I described: instantly go back and forth between Mac and PC without having to close any programs. We should find a way to make that a thing again.
Even if it never worked in Linux before? I’ll have to check it out. It would be nice to be able to use the latest version of Serato DJ without having to buy new hardware. (SDJ works in WINE, right? Is WINE even still a thing or have we evolved beyond that?)
Serato DJ should work in Wine fine. Wine is more active as a project now than it ever was, thanks to Valve’s Proton, which is bascially a Wine fork aimed at gaming on Linux through Steam. But, they push changes upstream (the Wine project), so Wine is really going fast forward now, they’re up to version 8.something now, which is a big jump, considering it was at version 5 only a few years ago and that the project has been around for about 2 decades.
Regarding DJ controllers and Wine… that might be a bit tricky, but it’s worth a shot 🤷. Might require some manual library overrides or setups, but if the controller is supported in Linux (works fine with, let’s say, Mixxx or Transitions DJ), it should be able to work in Wine as well.
The easy solution for that is a kvm switch. You have two pcs, and switch between them with a button press, keeping the same mouse, keyboard and monitor.
Best use is for personal PC and work laptop, but if you specifically want to switch between linux and windows pcs, then it should be fine if you use that.
Yeah but I don’t want two PCs. The PC room gets hot enough as-is. I have to turn off the heat when doing a resource-intensive task to keep the room from heating up to 80°F! In January!
Not to mention the costs. Upfront and the increased power bill. No way am I buying a second 4090 and having one PC using up 150w+ sitting idle while I’m using the other one. Out of my budget.
Why would you have a 4090 in the non-gaming one? A 2 or 3 generation old laptop used for $150 can idle Linux far below 120W and run most things as fast as a current gen Windows machine. I have my pc and my work laptop both plugged into a huge monitor with 2 buttons to switch input, and ShareMouse to share the same keyboard and mouse. I preferred Synergy, and then the Barrier fork, and then the Input-Leap fork because they are freeware, but they took away local admin and sudo permissions on the work computer, so I needed an alternative that didn’t need elevated privileges and don’t want a hardware KVM switch.
This argument is getting out of control. All I want is a some technology to come around that lets me switch between OSes instantly without rebooting or building a second PC. That was my original point. We’re going off on a tangent, here.
The point is that this is Linux community and majority understand that there is basically no reason in using Windows. But there are proprietary exceptions like games and stuff. I don’t have Windows on my machine for years and I’m perfectly fine without it.
I’m not talking about “most people”, because they all have been brainwashed by Microsoft and will refuse in adopting anything different than Windows. It comes pre installed basically everywhere.
No, that’s ChromeOS. Windows still assumes some knowledge that you may take for granted, but someone who’s never used a computer before might not know.
I’m a little surprised considering their aggressive as campaigns, the fact they’ve existed for over 10 years and that their market share is higher than the mac’s
It’s called not keeping up with technology in general since a decade ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
Seriously when I tell people I’m tech illiterate I mean it. I can’t tell ya what all the different devices mean and I got introduced to Linux because I once had to recover data from my broken Windows computer 5-6 years ago and my pal gave me a disk. That was Ubuntu of all things too!
With all the UI changes on every version in the last few years that simply isn’t true. Windows is becoming harder and harder to use even if you know what you are doing, much less if you don’t know half the computer related terminology.
Unfortunately, Windows becoming better and better. You can literally run Linux while running Windows (that’s why coders still use Windows) and now you can even remove pre installed bloatware. Can you imagine? They even copy KDE look!
Are you talking about WSL!? WSL is not even close to actual Linux. Additionally, if I need to run Linux while using Windows, I will be using a VM like a seasoned professional, not the Windows equivalent of Wine in 2008.
Can you describe the essentials of what WSL is? Does it map UNIX file structure to Windows’ one? Can I access the Windows FS through it? Does it have POSIX commands?
I heard/seen a lot of people using either WSL or “Ubuntu terminal” and I don’t have any interest because I don’t plan on using anything like this in my life, but I do want to at least understand what benefits it brings and can you replicate the true Linux terminal experience on Windows without creating a VM that have different FS from the host. Basically, I want to know if I still have any strings that I can pull to convert people to Linux, because there amount of such strings decreases every so slightly with every year, it seems.
Put simply, Linux is a kernel; WSL is a partial emulator of that kernel with exceedingly little support for the programs that attract people to it.
As one popular example, there’s no support for anything graphical. I’ve heard a lot about how the feature is coming, but I’ve yet to meet anyone who got it to work.
Under-the-hood, you are still using the bloated Windows kernel, a now 30-year-old file system which was flawed to begin with (NTFS) or something newish that’s closely related to it, and you’re facing the same exhausting privacy violations that MS has been in hot water for; except you get to do it with bash instead.
I tried it on my laptop that had Windows 11 pre-installed, and I cannot imagine how they’re attracting anyone other than middle management and freshmen boot camp engineers with it. Apparently they found out that Ubuntu could be side-loaded in two minutes and panicked or something.
Addendum: WSL2 is apparently less of an emulator and more of a stripped-down VM, but again, how that appeals to me more than a full VM with drag-and-drop support is beyond me. Maybe someone else can give you a use case that’s worked for them.
Thanks. Yeah, I’ve heard about WSL2 (as if the first implementation shouldn’t have also been the last one). But many probably refer to both as WSL without version number.
Actually, not really. It’s becoming more like what a smart device would look/feel, which is what most people are accustomed to anyway by now. Sure, options and settings get removed left and right, but that is not a concern for your every day Joe. They just need something to do their taxes in or watch a movie or play a few dumb clips on YT, that’s it. Oh and of course it comes preinstalled with the computer, so they can do all that out of the box, great!
You ask any person that uses MS Office whether they like the pre-2007 menu layout (1997-2003) of Office or the new (post-2007) menu layout, you’ll always get the same answer, the post-2007 is better. Why? I really have no idea, but they say it’s better. Maybe it’s the thing with the icon buttons, or just having a ribbon with the most used tools, IDK. My point is, LibreOffice uses the pre-2007 classical layout. For most people, this is confusing. I find it simple and elegant, the way a GUI text/spreadsheet editor should look and feel. But, than again, I’m with computers since I was a kid, so drop down menus are not a new thing for me. People rarely use any menu that’s not a full screen one (or at least one that’s big enough to take away at least half the screen). Why? IDK, but I think smart devices are to blame for that.
That is bad but what bothers me more is that they get moved every time they publish a new version and for no real reason considering the average person won’t access them anyway.
They want even those power users that are used to tweaking the OS to not tweak the OS and just get used to the new defaults (whatever they might be). A perfect example being no thin taskbar in Win11. Why? IDK, you tell me 🤷. Not everyone has a FullHD monitor (I don’t), but hey, maybe you need to buy a new one 😒. Consumerism maybe behind this, but I can’t be certain.
In any case, most users will eventually get accustomed to the new defaults. Very few users will say “f this” and switch to another OS and they don’t actually care about those users, cuz they would have switched eventually anyway (if it wasn’t for this, some other thing most probably).
That’s not enabling, it’s just how people are… most people anyway. They won’t become tech literate of you send them to computer classes or tell them they need to learn stuff. Most people are lazy when it comes to using their brain. It’s just how things are 🤷.
I agree, it’s completely unacceptable to introduce a bug and then to instead of taking responsibility for introducing such a bug, you start pointing fingers at everybody else.
It’s like when a car hits a cyclist following all the rules and then tries to blame the cyclist for not following some made up rules that only exist in the drivers head “Cyclists should be on the SIDEWALK if they don’t wanna get hit!”
Not only were they wrong to hit them, they’re DOUBLE wrong for trying to blame them after the fact.
You’re agreeing with something I didn’t state. I’m not defending the idea of introducing bugs through bad code and then blaming others. I think the way Linus responded to that was the issue.
After I saw the car hit the cyclist, I rushed to his aid.
The driver came out of the car, yelling at the cyclist for being on the street.
“Shut the fuck up. Get back in your car. You are the problem. It was wrong of you to hit him and wrong of you to blame him you fucking idiot. You can help, or you can fuck off, but you’re not going to stand here and blame the man you just injured with your own incompetence”, I screamed at the driver.
I don’t think I am missing the forest. There’s not an issue with the idea of correcting a developer, but there is an issue in the way the correction was carried out. Just because something behaves “better” after punishment doesn’t mean the punishment was good. Ends justifying means and all.
That’s very “ends justify the means” of you. No, that’s not the question here. Linus could have gotten the same results without the yelling and insults. You do not need either of those to be direct, assertive, and clear on what the issue is, something that Linus has since learned
Both Mauro and Linus are human. I trust them to be so. I don’t get the point of endlessly pontificating about human quirks & behavior, we are all not assembled from the same factory. And we all grow and we learn. No one’s perfect.
Plus, your argument fails to address the main issue here, Mauro needing to realize that he needs to improve in order to continue contributing to a project shared among many people and one passionately guarded by Linus as his baby.
Nah it’s completely fine. I vastly prefer an angry-sounding takedown over a passive aggressive takedown and a takedown Mauro definitely deserved because his code was, in fact, utter shite, and that as a maintainer. This isn’t “oh he’s a noob he doesn’t know how the kernel works” type of territory. Also note that this happened after he had been told what’s up in a neutral and factual way: Linus, even in his most management by perkele days, never made those things the first reply to anything. So Mauro got his chance to spot that he fucked up and correct his approach, he didn’t, therefore, it has to be said loudly. Simple as that.
Also, no “you should be aborted retroactively” in sight anywhere. Yeah that stuff wasn’t necessary even though everyone with an ounce of social intelligence should readily spot that those insults were always so over the top as to be obviously humorous.
It’s possible to be assertive and assign responsibility for a screwup without being a dick. “Being a dick” is the nothing else has worked option, not step one.
“being a dick” and “assertive” are weasel terms which do a hell a lot of lifting in your argument there. I have no idea where your line for behaviour to be deemed acceptable actually is.
IMO, no, Linus wasn’t a dick. He called out a specific attitude and behaviour which Mauro is not supposed to show in his role as maintainer. What about Mauro being a dick because he went in all self-righteous like “this is a bug in pulseaudio”?
If you were a restaurant manager, and a server told a customer that he’s not going to serve beer with steak but only wine because “drinking beer with steak is obviously wrong”, what would you do? Chew them out, of course. It’s way out of line. This isn’t Linus exploding over nothing just to bully someone, that’s a thing he has never done.
If you want someone toxic to complain about in the FOSS space pick Lennart Poettering, the kind of guy who replies to “We’d like to be able to disable various features to keep things small” with “why do you hate disabled people they need accessibility”. More generally speaking: Focussing on tone never ends up well. You can be incredibly toxic in the most flowery of idioms.
Your example is from one of this industries notorious for being toxic – that doesn’t make it right.
“Why would you think that’s even remotely acceptable? Now I have to go apologize and possible comp a meal.” Depending on the circumstance: take them off that table, send them home, or fire them. Being in control of themselves is one of the defining aspects of leadership, and being abusive is the sign a “leader” that isn’t.
If they start being a dick: sure, game on – so long as you’re not demeaning yourself doing it. But most people are capable of a degree of self reflection and accountability once you make the situation clear to them, and they deserve that chance. Sometimes people don’t even realize they’re the ones that screwed up, even when it’s obvious to everyone else.
There’s it again. What, precisely, is it that makes Linus’ comment “abusive”? Is he gaslighting? Is he attacking Mauro over what he is? All I see is calling out, harshly, what Mauro did, behaviour that actually occurred and that is not acceptable and that Mauro knows is not acceptable. “We do not break userspace” is the rule #1 of Linux development, Mauro ignored it and was a dick about it.
Or do you disagree with the tone of the whole thing. Things like “Shut up” instead of “This is not up for discussion”. If so, then please for the love of the gods please shut up.
Maybe fair in a typical setting, but getting iffy around programmers, especially kernel maintainers. I’m convinced linux and foss in general would not exist without the autism spectrum, and who knows maybe even borderline personality disorders
I think this is funny, but it's hard for me to hate too much on flatpaks. Disk space is practically free now, and having spent a good chunk of my career fighting DLL hell, I have a lot of sympathy for the problem it's trying to solve.
Honestly this. It’s so nice to not have to hunt for a specific library that depends on 20 other libraries. I’d rather pay in disk space than deal with that.
Its good and bad. Bad because the base system cant use it and its not the main packaging choice.
Lots of good apps like OBS use outdated runtimes, which simply should not be used anymore. I am not sure if this is a security issue but probably it is, and it creates this unnecessary Runtime bloat.
I hate this philosophy so much! I hate developers for it! It’s like they gave up on even trying to do anything about retrocompatibility and managing libraries and dependancies.
Anyway it will collapse soon. I just wish it was sooner.
An answer that posit that disk space is infinite and free and embrace the black box philosophy. Soon we will have machine priests doing rituals to maintain them I guess.
Honestly I get both sides of it. Your view makes sense as an end-user and from a philosophical perspective. But some people have legacy software that needs conflicting dependency versions, for instance. It’s just a trade-off.
Yeah, package maintainers should have their dependencies figured out. “Managing dependencies is too hard” is a distro packager’s problem to figure out, and isn’t a user problem. When they solve it and give you a package, you don’t need to figure it out anymore.
Plus, frequent breaking changes in library APIs is a big no-no, so this is avoided whenever possible by responsible authors. Additionally, authors relying on libs with shitty practices is also a no-no. But again, you don’t need to worry about dependences because your packager figured this out, included the correct files with working links, and gave them to you as a solved problem.
This isn’t a Linux compatibility issue. You bought a device where the manufacturer told you in advance that a driver for the built-in wifi module doesn’t exist yet. It’s a product at the development stage.
So just follow the manufacturer’s recommendation from the product page: use a wifi dongle for now and pat yourself on the back for being an early adopter.
Having the device, I already tether the wifi. But it is indeed a compatibility issue: the old kernel drivers for the chip were janky and it’s doubtful how well they even worked the time. The code is apparently such a hot mess that the people who were working on it have stopped making progress. There is now skepticism that it will ever be fully functional.
linuxmemes
Top
This magazine is from a federated server and may be incomplete. Browse more on the original instance.