Gotta figure that with the arty and planes bombing Gaza, the Palestinian KIA is the same. So that’s 1200 in a little over 24 hours and counting. Big number.
I’m not sure that will help anything. Some of that land is used for defensive purposes. The normalization agreements with Saudi Arabia, now delayed due to this stupidity, did have provisions for turning land back to Palestinian control. It didn’t seem to make much difference to Hamas.
Hamas is funded and armed by Iran. Iranian leadership really doesn’t want Saudi Arabia to make a formal normalisation agreement with Israel. Hamas leadership is dedicated to maintaining the wealth they gain from being Iranian proxies. The rest of Hamas is dedicated to destroying Israel.
Hamas is also fighting Fatah for control of the West Bank and the Palestinian Authority government. The worse things are for residents of the West Bank, the better it is for Hamas.
So it’s in Hamas’ interests, both as proxies for Iran and for their own in the West Bank, to do everything they can to force the Arab world to choose sides and scupper every normalisation agreement, especially the big daddy Saudi one.
You realize the attacks are coming from Gaza where Israel did pull out, and then the people immediately elected a terrorist group to lead the country. That group then put the destruction of Israel as one of their main platforms.
I mean if anything this is showing why Israel doesn’t withdraw from the West Bank.
the sheer number of Israeli civilian fatalities is staggering. so far the best count only has 80 or so of the dead being military or police and so the rest of the 600 and counting are presumably civilians.
This could see tens of thousands dead, 90% of which will be Palestinian and most of whom had nothing to do with the attacks. It could also be the last hurrah for Hamas.
I honestly don’t understand this one, and I used to do this for a living. Terrorist attacks frequently make sense. 9/11 successfully engaged the US in a “global war on terror.” It resulted in a massive burning of resources and an engagement lasting far longer than anyone anticipated. It failed in that al Qaeda has effectively been rendered inoperative, there was no pan-Arab or pan-Islamic movement that rose up to strike down the current world order, and the leadership did not generally get to retire to a life of quiet reflection. But at least it was comprehensible.
This is looking more like the equivalent of the Charles Manson Helter Skelter attack, where some psychotic thought he could ignite a national race war with an incomprehensible slaughter.
If it were not so big, I’d think it was a red flag operation. It’s just that stupid and the consequences are just that dire. This is handing Bobo exactly what he needs on a silver platter.
Agree. Near as I can figure the normalization of relations between Saudi and Isreal looked like it was going to come together. Both countries are an enemy to Iran. Iran did this to stop that agreement. Also to consider is…
Who funds Hamas? Iran.
Who funds Iran? Russia
it would certainly be in Russia’s interest to deflect the west’s attention from Ukraine
I am not sure “Russia funds iran”. Yes, they both have developed deeper trade relations since trump cut of Iran more. But so have the relations between iran and China increased.
All of these countries try working together in mutual benefit against the west. But I wouldn’t call any of them puppets of another.
Czecholslovakia already had a significant far-right demographic, I don’t think this is something that can be blamed on the US, this is just the result of conservativism anywhere.
Protecting mass shooters is a right wing thing, which their right wing may or may not do as a consequence of this. Mass shootings themselves outside of terrorism were first popularized by the Columbine shooting which inspired many copycats hoping to become as notorious. Thankfully the article calls this POS “the gunman” instead of giving them the infamy they may have wanted.
This is kind of an absurd take, Americans didn’t invent mass killings. There have been shootings and killings far longer than the US has even been around. Whatever problems the US has you can’t just lay every problem at their feet. It reads more like you’re trying to force some kind of political narrative than anything else.
I specified non-political mass shootings by individuals, not mass killings in general. Obviously mass killings in general existed prior to that, and there were a few mass shootings prior to them becoming extremely common. The event that caused them to become common was Columbine, not the Charles Whitman mass shooting or any other historical mass shooting which had occurred rarely and sporadically until that point.
What the hell is a “non-political mass shooting”? Columbine wasn’t “political”, it was a couple of assholes who literally just did it because they thought it’d be ‘cool’. They didn’t make political demands or say “this is because gay people have rights” or whatever. You hear about more mass shootings in general starting around Columbine for the simple fact that that is when mass media and the Internet were becoming established.
But there were mass shootings before that, just because they didn’t go viral on non-existent social media doesn’t mean they didn’t happen. The whole reason Europe has the modern gun laws it does is in no small part because they’ve had mass shootings of their own.
You’re trying too hard to try and pin this one on the US and the more you try to defend the notion the more clear it becomes that this isn’t about shootings, it’s about some kind of weird agenda.
I’m not sure you’re understanding me, so let me try my best to clarify what I’m saying. Please approach my arguments in good faith rather than assuming I’m automatically wrong because I hold a motivation you’re assuming I have. Most mass shootings in history have been done for political reasons. Most of the time it’s the government acting through use of their militaries against other militaries and often against civilians, and also often by individuals or non-government groups committing acts of terrorism to affect some kind of political change. Some mass shootings, such as the one committed by Charles Whitman, were committed for other reasons but did not inspire others to follow their example.
The Columbine shooters were inspired to commit an act of violence by Timothy McVay not because they agreed with the radical libertarian political ideas he committed his act of terrorism for, but because they saw it made him notorious in the media. The Columbine shooters were inspired mainly by their desire for infamy and fame. This is clear from mountains of evidence of the shooters claiming that this is the inspiration for their act of violence. Since the Columbine shooters, an additional category beyond political violence has become common for mass shootings which is the desire to become infamous. Since Columbine this category of non-politically motivated mass shootings has been significantly more common than prior to Columbine mainly in the United States but also elsewhere such as Australia. There may have been mass shooters with the Columbine shooters’ motivations prior to Columbine, but they were rare and did not inspire the trend which Columbine inspired. It is extremely likely that since Columbine, the desire to become infamous is the motivation of a mass shooting which is committed for non-political reasons.
Media groups including the BBC have decided no longer to name and reveal information about mass shooters to deter this inspiration from possibly being fulfilled, hence why this article gives no details of “The gunman.” I am relieved whenever I see this and support it.
The US right wing protects mass shooters which the Australian right wing did not which is among the reasons why Australia does not have the same amount of issues with mass shootings as the US does. Because the Czech Republic has a strong right-wing element it may be possible they take measures to protect future mass shooters as the US has.
No one is blaming US here. It was obviously the murderer’s fault. I don’t know how’d you come to the conclusion I’m blaming US. I was just mentioning the fact that it’s pretty common in the US while it’s not at all common here (or in Europe in general). And I always said that I’m quite relieved that these things are not happening here and that no one’s getting inspired by the US shootings. I think this sentiment is quite common among Europeans.
Because it’s quite common there? I’m not really sure what’s the confusion here. Is it common enough in the US that it’s infamous for it? Yes. Does that somehow make a shooting in a different country their fault? No.
Not attributing the particular mass shooting, but attributing mass shootings as a phenomenon, yes.
Don’t try to play dumb about your choice to call it a “lifestyle”. No one calls stabbing attacks “the British Lifestyle”, or anti-Muslim legislation “the French Lifestyle”, despite those things being common to those places, and them being infamous for them.
I wonder if it’ll get to a point where some of the world leaders still backing Israel financially and with munitions actually have to do something. Like, is there any amount of cruelty and atrocity at this point that they won’t fund? Does it literally have to get all the way to concentration camps? Overt industrialized systematic genocide? Where’s their line?
The line is where the people in their own countries force them to stop supporting Israel while atrocities continue. This is why speaking up, in your communities, on social media, by joining protests and by boycotting companies that support the IDF, is so important. People outside Israel can not make the IDF stop. But we can pressure our governments to deny any further support for Israel or better yet sanction key players, to pressure Israel into stopping.
I would agree, but there are people here on Lemmy and elsewhere who don’t distinguish between Palestinian people and the Hamas. It’s like a ‘tankie’ versus ‘anti-tankie’ game, ‘us and them’, and nothing in between. If you don’t choose, each side accuses you of being the enemy.
Addition:
Just watched this interview (video + transcript). A journalist tells about his visit of tbe occupied territories in Palestine. At some point he arrives at one of the many checkpoints.
And I was walking to the checkpoint, and an Israeli guard stepped out, probably about the age of my son. And he said to me, “What’s your religion, bro?” And I said, “Well, you know, I’m not really religious.” And he said, “Come on. Stop messing around. What is your religion?” I said, “I’m not playing. I’m not really religious.” And it became clear to me that unless I professed my religion, and the right religion, I wasn’t going to be allowed to walk forward. So, he said, “Well, OK, so what was your parents’ religion?” I said, “Well, they weren’t that religious, either.” He says, “What were your grandparents’ religion?” And I said, “My grandmother was a Christian.” And then he allowed me to pass.
So there, even as you just walk around, you seem to be checked ‘to whom you belong’.
The selective outrage is also very telling. Palestinian civilians killed by indiscriminate bombing? Apoplectic red-faced spittle-flying fury!
Ukrainian civilians or even Syrian civilians killed by the same? Relative silence even though in both cases it was even less provoked. What’s really going on here? And I don’t mean that as a rhetorical question either; I honestly don’t know. I have a theory, but I’m not entirely confident in it just yet.
I’ve seen plenty of contrarian tankies who are pro Hamas. Often the same “anti imperialists” who hate the West so much they think supporting Ukraine is bad.
Personally I’m of the opinion that both sides are genocidal and anybody with a clear idea what to do there is lying, but I’ve been banned from !worldnews as “genocide denial” for agreeing with Biden that we should be suspicious of the claimed death numbers coming out of Palestine because both sides have a history of lying about violent acts in their conflict.
A problem with Lemmy (and a bigger one with Reddit) is that conversations can include context and nuance, while mods don’t always can or want to take them into account, so you better make each comment stand on its own, or you can get the boot “out of the blue”.
I’m perfectly capable of thinking that they’re both terrorists and freedom fighters.
It’s not just that they “can” be both, it’s more that they “have to” be both.
“Freedom fighter” is a term reserved for the underdog, the one who can’t use sheer military power to terrorize a whole region (like a couple US Carrier Strike Groups with nukes) or some surrounding countries (like a US funded Israeli military with some nukes of their own). Established democracies and recognized states, can use their “military” to terrorize a whole population by just threatening to bomb the living shit out of the civilians, while “freedom fighters” can only terrorize through surprise attacks and extreme brutality… aka, by being “terrorists”.
Bottom line: all “freedom fighters” need to be “terrorists”, otherwise they’d be called “a military”.
somebody who goes to “freedom fighter” as their first noun for them, that’s kind of a red flag.
That’s a bit harsh, what if they understand the two are synonyms? 🤷
Terrorism is a tactic, so no, not all “freedom fighters” are terrorists. There are and have been throughout history many guerrilla groups that don’t use terrorism tactics but that could still be called “freedom fighters.”
Off the top of my head, all I can come up with associated with “freedom fighters”, is using both guerrilla tactics and terrorism to fight against some superior enemy. The next closest thing, are non-terrorist “freedom movements” like Gandhi’s (which comes with a separate can of worms).
Well, that explains a lot. Shrooms are great, everyone should do it once in their life. But they should only do it somewhere safe, calm and ideally with a sober "trip sitter".
Part of me wants to feel sorry for the guy, but it was beyond reckless and stupid for him to be tripping in a cockpit, let alone on a plane at all. Especially for his first time! His dealer isn't culpable for the pilots actions, but obviously didn't prepare him on what to expect. Everything would've been fine if he had just gone to his basement with a bunch of stuffed animals and some chill music.
Edit: After reading some comments, if he took shrooms two days earlier than it's not the cause. Maximum your trip lasts like 12 hours. Sleep deprivation seems more likely to me
Jewish schools in Europe are closed today. Synagogues and other places where Jews gather have been evaluating the risk they face and acting as they need to. Some might say that the claims Hamas has called for a “Day of Rage” today are internet rumours but we have to take them seriously because the consequences of failing to are so severe.
There will be calls for jihad against Jews. There always are. As emboldened as militants and wanna-bes are by Hamas’, as they see it, success in killing Jews (and yes, I chose that designation specifically and intentionally) last weekend, it won’t be different now. There have been and will be calls for jihad against us.
When Palestine attacks Israel, antisemitic violence around the world increases. When Israel attacks Palestine, antisemitic violence around the world increases. This is what diaspora Jews live with.
Bomb threats on diaspora Jewish organisations started last Saturday. Diaspora Jews have been on high alert all week.
The majority of people at those demonstrations will be peaceful. But some won’t. Some will use the gatherings to foment violence against diaspora Jews. There’s no right answer in this. If you’re affected and chaffing at the denial of your right to shout in numbers, please consider that this ban will very likely save lives, especially in France. Please don’t dismiss this just because those lives are diaspora Jews and you don’t much care about us.
Edit: Notices the number of people who have convinced themselves that putting French Jews in danger is alright, cause you know, Palestine. Terror attacks against Jews in France is a thing, you know. Done in the name of freeing Palestine, as if French Jews had the power to change anything in another country.
The median age in Gaza is 18…half the population is literal children because no one lives long enough to grow old. The reality of what Israel is doing to the people in Palestine is not something that can be hidden from and handwaved away any more.
Unfortunately most western states have completely ignored for years the atrocities committed against the people in Palestine. Not allowing these kinds of protests also prevents people in those countries from voicing their rejection of their governments position, making it more difficult for those governments to change their postures.
Putting pressure on Israel’s allies is for most people the only way they have to support Palestinians
The Israeli government is able to pursue its horrible policies because of a lack of support for palastinian people.
Preventing protest in powerful nations stops public opinion changing. Public opinion allows the political establishment to continue to avoid historical responsibility.
If western nations drop support of Israel and start using sanctions etc it would be much harder to destroy Gaza.
I feel like this would need protests well beyond the scale I can imagine any of the populations in these nations mounting, and that they’d have to be backed by widespread blockades & strikes.
But mostly that very little would slow Israel down, short of the US intervening militarily in the next few hours.
I understand, today my own nation votes to slap down a hand outstretched in peace and warmth. In my own state police deploy anti terror powers to crack down on anyone attending a rally against Israeli militancy.
But if we give up nothing will improve, and everything good we have started small and grew into unstoppable movements.
Am lucky on this one, in that my country is generally supportive of Palestinians and even our neoliberal government has been critical of Israel’s behaviour, now and also in the past. It is unlikely that they’d ban the protests.
Though if they did, it could easily result in far more people taking to the streets.
Wishing you all the best in your endeavours, wherever you are.
This ban also legitimises the idea that supporting Palestine is equal to supporting terrorism or antisemitism, which also can increase hate crimes against them (and Arab people in general)
There’s a lot of really engaging shot-form content on the platform; most people assume it’s just a firehose of what you see when you log in anonymously.
and people actually get their news from there
It’s a poor substitute for a healthy set of reading, but it’s also a way people put things happening “now” online. Not unlike choosing your broadcast or print media, the results can be really interesting or really misleading (or both; okay, often both)
It’s also, like other social media, easily and continuously manipulated to social engineer your worldview. Please try to avoid getting your news from social media, especially tik tok, but also Facebook, reddit, Instagram, Lemmy, Twitter or mastodon, etc.
ALL media is easily and continually manipulated to social engineer your world view. If you can name an outlet which is free of sociopolitical bias on sociopolitical topics I’m all ears. Every act of commentary is exposing a position, whether it be left, right, corporate, status quo, centrist, or any other area of ideology. Not recognizing that every source has a bias is dangerous.
While true, it’s a false equivalence. Getting news from multiple news sources is less controllable of you than getting your news from ‘multiple sources’ filtered through social media algorithms targeting you.
Further, you can often browse news in a private fashion. You can be fingerprinted, sure, but it’s easier to mitigate with multiple news sources than fingerprinting in social media, especially when you get to accounts on both. And lets be realistic, someone getting their news from tik tok is being tracked hard in ways they would have no way of predicting from multiple data sources and with phone information that they don’t realize they are providing.
Someone watching CNN or fox news or abcnews or what have you is not even close to being manipulated in the same way, even if they are being provided a biased data set.
Amazing how tiktok is not outright banned in most countries. When I first heard of the platform years ago I thought for sure it would be banned everywhere yet here we are.
Right but if one side surrenders here they’ll lose their land and be destroyed. They aren’t similar.
If hamas get Israel the Jewish population is fucked. Look at what’s happening now when they crossed the border. That wasn’t war it was slaughter of civilians.
If Israel get Gaza the Palestinian population is fucked. Look at the westbank. That is isn’t war either.
It’s not the same as any war. It’s 100 years of religious / racial conflict.
The only end is an agreement or genocide. And 100 years have shown an agreement is unlikely.
They came over the border a killed 1000 civilians. In retaliation Israel has killed 1000 civilians in air strikes. It’s not war. It’s slaughter.
I wonder what could have provoked an attack like. Perhaps decades of oppressive occupation. Constantly escalating violence isn’t going to fix this. But Israel is the side that can choose to end it by ending apartheid. All the imprisoned can do to improve their situation is try to fight out of it.
This is one of those justification posts. To which I always respond that there is no justification for the various atrocities committed by Hamas. To which you respond with something about Israeli oppression. To which I respond that it still doesn’t justify the vile and nasty nature of Hamas action and if your moral compass says it does I feel sorry for you. Then I slowly get bored with your inane ideology. Good. So that’s it.
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