I agree, but I try to be pragmatic. Everyone is looking for the twitter killer that will destroy it in a blaze of glory, but I am fine with it slowly bleeding users and value as Threads and Mastodon (and Bluesky?) get better and gains more users.
Fun side effect if I accidentally click a reddit link from Google or whatever, it opens the app to an empty screen instead of giving reddit traffic! I'll keep it installed as a free blacklist tool 🤣
They warned us even back in the 70's that it was bad, then it'd suddenly get worse all of a sudden with little to no warning as things snowballed, but of course the oil execs just tried to shut up their own scientists and block them from influencing congress instead of listening. Even though they were warned that the threat was "Existential".
Let's see if it continues through July and August.
I'm hopeful, but there is still a lot of content engagement over on Reddit. It doesn't seem like it's struggling all that much from a surface level observation.
It will probably drive away a lot of adults, though. Even if they are unaware of the Fediverse or don’t consider it an acceptable substitute for Reddit, they won’t stay if the threads are dominated by bored teens screwing around.
It’s already bad enough. On my single visit back a few days ago it struck me that the largely ignorant and unperceptive comments I was reading were probably written by kids who were just killing time and didn’t actually have much interest in the topic at hand.
A flood of children at the same time as an exodus of the type of users who actually upload good content to Reddit could definitely set up the conditions for a steady bleed of users away from the site, though. Especially with moderators' ability to actually do their job being impacted by the API changes.
Also worth noting that reddit control the metrics that they release for a lot of this.
There's no real measure of good engagement vs shallow engagement, so they can find a way to show that user visits are up even if the worthwhile content is starting its slow slide. Shit, i probably used to visit reddit once a day for 12 hours, but now i visit 5 times a day when i instinctively enter the URL.
So the metrics that reddit controls are showing that things are going down. How bad must things be that even reddit can't hide it from their metrics now?
If we could truly measure good vs shallow engagement, I wonder how much worse these numbers would be.
I think most of these are third party metrics collected from ad services, we've seen a few choice ones from reddit about how little traffic has dropped but of course Reddit will find ways to express an ever rising metric until they can't.
Facebook somehow reports near magical user growth, but 90% of the people I'm connected to it barely seem to be there.
I strongly suspect, but can't prove, that the 80/20 rule applies to reddit. I expect 20% of the users create 80% of the content and engagement, and that even if only 1% of reddit leaves it's almost certainly coming out of the productive 20%. However i'll bet Reddit will never start openly sharing stats about how engaged the top quintile of their users are, because that provides too much insight. Much better to talk about monthly active users and count those of us that flip over there by mistake or for one community we can't replace here.
The largest ones like r/pics are still protesting iirc (protest engagement seeming to bring in less ad revenue than normal traffic) and some large ones like r/Minecraft have shutdown. (Someone else made a good point about the biggest subs not having particular tribes and thus the mods are theoretically easier to replace than a smaller knit community - but the ones currently in charge are still trying.)
Engaging over protest content seems to still be hurting reddit where it counts. Some subs have gone completely to normal (and this is what reddit is trying to promote on r/all) but it seems not enough.
This is (maybe) the "beginning" of the end for Reddit, not the "end" of the end. The big change isn't Reddit, but here.
When Digg fell, everyone moved to Reddit. When this API situation started there was not an obvious new solution to move to. Lemmy/KBin were mentioned but not readily accepted due to concerns with the content and capabilities of the fediverse. That is changing quickly, and the next time Reddit screws up, we will have much more active communities, quality apps, and fewer bugs.
I didn't delete anything, because there's quite a bit of programming & tech advice. I always knew reddit was profiting off my contribution, everybody should have known that from the beginning.
I'll stop contributing, but I don't like how much useful information has gone dark or otherwise suddenly just been lost. I wouldn't burn a library down because they started charging exorbitant late fees, I would just stop going there.
I didn't delete my account, but I did wipe out my post history.
I keep my account active because I've already found a couple of instances where reddit restored my posts in particular sub reddits ands I had to delete them again.
If I deleted my account I would never again get that special feeling of conducting a websearch to solve some problem and finding a hit from a person who looks like they are having exactly the same issue as me, only to find it was me posting 2 years ago and there are no useful responses.
Makes me wonder how identifiable I am by my "accent" online... I must phrase things in unusual ways. And I spend a lot of time trying to solve problems that are either unsolvable or over my head..
I always find this situation crushing, demoralizing and very funny and until lemmy has better search indexing I don't want to give it up.
Also I wrote things I think were useful too. But I don't stumble no them.
Tech/programming stuff is exactly why I did nuke mine. Going isn't as meaningful if you leave a bunch of value behind when you do. While I'm here for entertainment now, I'm often spending my reddit time during work hours on vendor-hosted support forums, stackexchange, etc. now.
Gradually, that library will be relocated to other places. Instead of just not going, I think it's better to take away others' reasons for going too, give them reason to seek out better libraries.
Good thing is that the content is not lost for those that know to surf the web. But those locations don't help reddit at all (main one is the wayback machine from archive.org and then there is a raw datadump of anyhting up to march 2023 as JSON)
Why I left mine intact. The Reddit "library," as it were, remains one of the largest and most significant public goods online. I think that's more important than burning my contributions in the hopes that Reddit management will do a 180. I also pinned a post advertising kbin/lemmy and Squabbles on my profile.
I'm certainly no longer participating, however, and I don't think Reddit's built to survive only on visitors from Google.
Same here, I just stopped using it. I never had the urge to burn the place down.
Not that erasing my paltry contributions over the years will probably have made that much difference but who knows if it helps someone in a future Google search that's a good thing.
Yeah- there is so much information that is more detailed and accurate to specific situations in almost every area that would be lost to the future.
And you literally never know what weird take on a current situation, or what seemingly small detail of information about a field of knowledge might be important to people, historians, etc., in the future. So much of our knowledge is in our inherent understanding of how the world is right now, that we tend to assume that that knowledge will always be there and available, but that's not necessarily the case.
Anyway. I get deleting, or even removing maybe some of the more frivolous content if possible, ("This" "So much this" somes to mind lol) but I think it's ok to preserve that history.
The difference was Reddit had already built up a reasonably comparable audience when Digg imploded so the migration was easy. If you look at a similar graph of Reddit today and Lemmy/Kbin, you probably wouldn't even see these tools register with the active user base of Reddit so high. I think "rhyme" of history is that another service will eventually win, and it might be ours, but it's more akin to the fall of the British Empire than an overnight event.
@abff08f4813c The main thing about all this is that there were no alternatives to Reddit until now. We needed a good push and reason to leave but never had a tangible alternative with nothing even showing up in Search results worth checking out. Now we do, All these big corps are screwing themselves, and we now have a BETTER alternative than all of them. So keep screwing up, Reddit, we have a place to go now. Keep screwing up, Twitter, Google, StackOverflow, Tumblr, Imgur, and all others that will soon follow suit.
They are seeing a decrease in usage since ChatGpt came about. They had implemented a network wide no AI generated answer policy, but after seeing their number declined decided to blame the mods for removing and banning users who were posting AI answers.
They refuse to show any data that supports their claims (that the mods banning users accounts for the decrease in usage), have told mods in private that they can no longer enforce the rule, but still want the rule to be in place.
They have continuously said one thing and done another, slowing eroding moderator and user trust. You can checkout the meta stack overflow site for the entire situation.
I wonder if there’s any data available on how much content was generated from 3rd party apps. in my experience, reddit was accessed solely through an app (rip baconreader). am I wrong in thinking that the users are the product and advertisers the customer?
You’re not wrong and this article really drove this home for me.
Especially how leadership really didn’t care about moderators having the tools they need to do the job they volunteered for.
They don’t care about the quality of the site, just that people keep posting so they can package up all that sweet sweet data for advertisers.
Think about all the little niche communities. I’m sure Reddit can link your username to your real identity internally. Imagine the profiles they can build and sell.
They don’t even care if you stop posting, it’s all there.
am I wrong in thinking that the users are the product and advertisers the customer?
I think there was/is a monetization route through the use of user data (probably why they’re pushing their app so much) as well as using all the data for things like language AI modeling.
But on that last one it seems like the biggest players such as openAI and Microsoft already scraped their site freely. Not sure if they’ve missed a big chunk of that opportunity by now
I have developed the impression, and it’s mostly just my hunch not so much evidence based - spez and co are kind of kicking themselves for being oblivious to the AI training rush and failing to monetize on it. Probably didn’t even realize it was happening until we all did via crazy headlines showing up in news about what AI could do. That kind of thing may lead to kneejerk decisions on api access
If Reddit leadership was oblivious, their heads were under a rock. Various GPT iterations have been training on different subreddits and posting to places like r/SubredditSimulator for years and have even been reported on in the media well before ChatGPT came out. Here is one report on it from 4 years ago:
While third party app users probably had a larger proportion of contributors, Reddit is big enough to still have plenty of content. Moderators are more interesting and it remains to be seen over time if an erosion of quality moderation happens which would make Reddit even shittier. Especially since Reddit seems to keep fumbling when it comes to providing good first party mod tools, see the whole r/Blind fiasco.
am I wrong in thinking that the users are the product and the advertisers the customer?
As long as profitability is the goal then you are correct.
I usually criticize these journalists for being a step or two behind the actual news with regards to social media movements. In this case though, at least they clearly state they are simply reviewing the past events.
As a result of that one little disclaimer line, this is actually a decent article and a reasonable bit of reporting. Even managed to be pretty impartial. 8/10.
I personally never browsed TIHI. It was always one of those where linking it was more of a meme than actually browsing it in my mind. Similar to how a lot of people would comment “/r/unexpectedjohnmulaney” but very few people were actually subbed to /r/unexpectedjohnmulaney. Because who the heck wants a bunch of pictures of comments referencing John Mulaney jokes in their feed? It’s the old “subreddits as hashtags” bit.
All that being said, it sucks because I know TIHI actually had more of a community than most “hashtaggy” subreddits. My understanding is it was a bit like a blend of ATBGE, MildlyInfuriating, CursedImages, or DIWhy.
Reddit is killing real communities, and killing their own history in the process. All those comments throughout the ages linking “/r/TIHI” now link to a dead sub. As much as I may have found those comments annoying, there were people out there who would click that link and go browse or maybe even subscribe to TIHI as a result of those comments.
It’s only a matter of time until more subs start meeting the same fate. I’m glad to have found a new platform to move to. After reading the posts from the Apollo dev, it seemed like the writing was on the wall about Reddit
The thing about TIHI, interestingasfuck, SLPT are that they regularly made r/all. Content hitting the front page means views for Reddit. So it's less about the sub's specific userbase, and more that those "main" subs have broad user appeal that brings people to Reddit in the first place.
And currently they're all shuttered. Which means less content on r/all, which decreases the general audience appeal of Reddit.
I guess we will start to see an uptick of "r/subsIfellfor" posts after more closures in light of how frequently the subreddit-as-hashtag but was being used.
Thank you for posting this here. Really heartwarming to receive so much kindness.
Let's be optimistic for the future of Internet communities. Technology evolves and puts more power into the hands of the users. Excited to see what's next.
Thank you for giving us such a good mobile experience on reddit. RIF suited my needs perfectly and I am both sad to see it go and excited for whatever the future holds.
Jumping on the bandwagon here. Sad to see the current state lead to the end of RiF. The app has been a huge part of my internet addiction. Thank you for all the years of development and patience.
This is your app? You're awesome dude, RiF was the only way I browsed reddit on my phone. Thank you for the years of joy and I wish you success in all your future endeavors.
Glad to share it! Thank you so much for your hard work, I cannot overstate how much I loved your app. I'm sure you've been getting this bunch but seriously the experience on Reddit is fun was what made Reddit. I have barely used it ever on a computer and have never really experienced it any other way. It is by far the number one used to have on my phone and losing access to it is losing access to Reddit for me. I'd love to know about any other projects that you're working on because the quality and simplicity of your product was what made the experience so great all these years!
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