As well the point of proton calendar is your calendar is basically a record of your life, it should be yours not some corporate data creeps to pull out every time theirs a new way to extract value through manipulating you into buying things and selling that info so they can get better at doing that. Also the outright giving access to governments for no reason other than kickbacks for cooperating. Why does the government need to know my cat has a vet appointment on Tuesday? They don’t? It’s just so they can catch the guy who’s got a crime appointment on Tuesday? Why do I lose my and my cats privacy in the process? It’s horse shit
Which is kind of the point. If it’s a last resort of self-preservation or to prevent an unacceptable alternative outcome, inherent to the choice to engage or endorse large scale violence is the underlying reality of choosing between two evils.
It’s not noble or good. It’s never justified.
Yet in certain situations it may be regarded as necessary.
But a necessary evil is not made good by virtue of its necessity.
And attempts to undermine the absolutism by which large scale violence is inherently unjustifiable, to turn atrocity into Micky Mouse heroism or patriotism, ultimately creates a moral tapestry wherein all atrocities can thus be justified by the relative perspectives of what is good.
So no, there is no measure by which large scale violence transforms into justifiable behavior, under any circumstances.
And a wise society would always regard its adoption as a stain upon its history, irrespective of what other horrors it was brought in to clear out.
Wow that is extremely well written. Here I was going to say only in self defense but I think you changed my mind. The nuance of necessity and justification is interesting and one I will have to think about.
There is no nuance. If it is necessary, it is justified.
The only nuance that exists is for acts you can create justifications for that aren’t necessary.
The only argument to be had is whether an action is necessary or not. If not necessary, then justification is required. Otherwise, they’re functionally synonymous.
I mean that is sort of the definition of justified but it’s being misused here, it just means having a good reason. Everyone is ignoring how subjective it is though. Bob may consider his life above others, so for him staying alive is a good enough reason to commit murder. Jane and a jury are very likely to disagree.
Different language needs to be used I think to avoid the issues people have with the concept of violent resistance.
Peace isn’t an option because injustice still happens under peace time. Liberation is a better solution for the oppressed.
So now we’ve got:
Liberation of oppressed peoples from oppression is always justified.
This focuses more on the end goal than the action that resistance implies. Liberation can still involve violent resistance and that’s okay. You can be on the side of righteousness and still do what is morally wrong, this is true of all movements.
We have to agree that liberation from oppression is always morally good and we have to apply it to all cases. So if we don’t look at the Palestinian struggle the same way we’d look at indigenous issues in north America or apartheid SA, we’d be hypocrites.
The real issue at hand is whether or not we’re talking about moral relativism or absolutism.
If we are endorsing relativism, then all actions have a relative frame of reference by which they are justified (i.e. Bob’s killing Jane).
My stance is that in terms of absolutism, there is no such thing as justified mass violence, and that while it is certainly possible for mass violence to be a lesser evil absolutely, and thus easily argued as a moral good relative to the alternative, that ultimately it remains an evil under all circumstances objectively, and at best can be a lesser evil regarded absolutely.
I would consider that the Haitian slave rebellion or Warsaw ghetto uprisings were intrinsically good.
I would wish to see liberation of oppressed peoples be a universal law. I would wish for this to be applied to all and I wish for everyone to act on this.
Do you include the 1804 massacres of the French with the mass rape of women and killing of children by Dessalines which followed the Haitian revolt in that intrinsic good?
I find it hard to consider that as part of the liberation since it happened after independence. Looks more like state violence aimed at a minority to me.
However, if something is necessary, it is justified.
While you may quibble, “it’s necessary to defend myself in life or death situations, but it isn’t justified”, this part “it’s necessary to defend myself in life or death situations” IS the justification of the action. It’s justified definitionally.
If you want a diamond necklace that you can’t afford, it is necessary to steal it in order to have it.
It is not justified to steal it simply because it was necessary to meet your goals.
You are implicitly assuming that the necessity of self-preservation equates justification on the premise that self-preservation is a just result.
I don’t agree.
If two soldiers are fighting for their lives against each other, it may be necessary for each to survive to kill the other.
But the family of the one that dies may not see their loved one’s death as justified even if the family of the one that survived sees it that way.
Your self-preservation is worthless to me, and thus justifies nothing. My own self-preservation is literally worth everything to me - and yet if still does not justify my taking everything from you, even if I deem it necessary to achieve my own desires and goals, any more than my desire for a necklace I cannot afford justifies its theft.
There is a distinction between things like stealing bread to save a life where a necessary action is justified by the good that comes out of it and stealing bread to throw away in order to achieve a thrill. Both are necessary to their goals, but one has a goal that justifies the necessary action while the other does not.
I’m saying that there is no goal or good in existence that justifies the inherit evil of mass violence, even if there are a myriad of ways in which mass violence might be necessary to one’s goals, with those ranging from ethnic cleansing to fighting tyranny.
Ok, let’s stay within the confines of individual self-preservation.
If it is necessary for you to have a new organ to survive, but not enough are available through organ donation programs, does the fact that it is necessary to your survival mean that acquiring an organ from an unwilling donor (directly or though black market proxy) is a justified action?
How about a murderer that killed someone and left witnesses? If they are caught, it would mean they are sentenced to death. So it is necessary for their continued self-preservation to minimize the chances of being caught. Does that make their murder of the witnesses of their earlier crime justified?
Your pithy take on necessity = justification is BS at even a cursory examination.
I’m not saying that we shouldn’t have freed the slaves. Just that neither the Union nor the Confederate killing of each other was justified. I’m not saying that the US shouldn’t have fought in WW2. Just that bombing Hiroshima wasn’t justified.
You are the one conflating necessity with justification. And as such you seem to not be able to wrap your head around that while I’m saying mass violence is never justified, that doesn’t mean I’m saying the relative necessity for admirable goals means it was in the best interest of the US to have had a show of overwhelming force at the end of the WW2 conflict in mind of Stalin’s USSR post-war or that Sherman was wise to burn crops as he marched through the South to reduce supplies for Confederate opposition.
Edit: Also, thank you for making my point about how the notion of justified violence is a slippery slope that can easily end up justifying atrocities by relativist moralizing there with the whole “by any means necessary.”
My brain always tries to convince me to eat greasy heavy food, but that never seems to help much. For some reason an apple always makes me feel much better. After that it’s just headache drugs and time.
Well, they can't seriously be that stupid. It's proper 8-year-old shit in a veneer of "this philosophical thing I heard about once" - it's 100% the Simpsons bit "I'm just going to windmill my arms and keep walking forward and if you get hit, it's your fault". Laughing at it seems like a good option and I personally would probably hang out less with whomever.
What’s stopping you from using the default calendar app of your operating system? It does all the things you mention, be it MacOS, Linux (Gnome, GTK etc) or Windows. What do you need that the default thing can’t do?
Violence can be justified, especially to prevent or answer violence.
But the target of the violence matters a lot. Violence against people who have nothing to do with the problem is never justified.
Rebelling against violent police is perfectly justified. Rebelling against a terrorist state that commit atrocities is perfectly justified. All out war against a invader is perfectly justified.
Killing civilians, murdering civilians and taking them postage is not ever justified. This is either war crime or terrorism.
Any claim can be inverted, so lacking evidence in either direction, this applies to the inverse as well.
I personally prefer more psychologically rooted arguments that lean towards at least compatibilism. If a belief in free will, regardless of the actual fact, is sufficient to affect one’s actions, is that not evidence against hard determinism?
Sure, but the compatibilist view is, in my understanding, that determinism is true, but we still have free will. The mind is so complex its deterministic function can’t be fully predicted, so the outcome of particular inputs over any meaningful duration cannot be computed. Thus actual free will and the illusion of free are essentially functionally identical.
Right, but lacking any physical evidence in either direction, is it not reasonable to then turn to purely rational explanations if we want to arrive at some sort of belief?
You can have a rational basis for a belief without empirical evidence (Russell’s teapot, for example). The reason you’d want to do that is to simplify the model of reality you’re working with in order to reduce the number of contingencies you need to account for.
enthusiast: Yesn’t.
Depends on product range, price, price vs. conpetition and price/performance ratio
Business: Usually yes but they come with a “business tax” attached. Meaning they are made to make more money. So the manufacturer could in turn ask for more $$$.
Suddenly a 1000€ VR headset might cost 3000€ and could require a mo thly fee for the software.
Also have features you wouldn’t need at home like kensington locks.
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