How long would you live if electricity for the whole world went out permanently?

I was having this conversation with my daughter and thought it was an interesting topic.

If an EMP or solar flare took out everything electronic in the whole world (permanently), how long do you think it would take for you to die, given your current location and circumstances.

I believe my daughter thinks we would live a lot longer than I do, but she is thinking about how long she can live without the internet while I am thinking the world will quickly descend into anarchy.

With no traditional forms of transport, so supplies would dry up, limited resources, health etc, law and order would be a challenge as things become more desperate.

I think I would live for about 3 months. I would try to get the family somewhere safe and remote and come back later, but I think most people would have the same idea.

eve_lynn,

Until my medication runs out. :(

jmlw,

There was a TV series based on that idea; it got weird after a while but does point out some of the complexities of living without power. The show is called Revolution and came out in 2012.

Personally though, I doubt a majority of people would be able to survive long due to complications of getting fresh water, food, not to mention medical care, etc.

MudMan,
@MudMan@kbin.social avatar

If property rights are still enforced in the turmoil probably indefinitely. Doesn't mean I'd enjoy it, though.

I come from a place where survival agriculture was the norm well into the 1980s. Would have to start having cows and pigs again, need to work out a salting station, which we haven't had for a few decades. I remember soap making was a mess. We got rid of our wood-fueled kitchen at some point, so that's a problem until society settles back in enough to start selling those again. We'd probably have to go back to setting up a corner for a fireplace in the meantime. That's before my time but it should be possible.

kalkulat,
@kalkulat@lemmy.world avatar

I know a place I could last for months, depending on what time of year the power’s lost, but it’s a long ways from here. And then, only if bullets for hunting were still available (they’ll get scarce fast, faster than toilet paper when COVID came around). Once the bullets are gone, I’ve either learned to trap or become a vegetarian.

tallwookie,

black powder tech is very simple, you just need a mediocre blacksmith - and that’s just a strong man (or a woman, maybe) - and a little bathtub chemistry. basic black powder rifles are not the most accurate, you need rifling for that (grooves that create a spiral down the inside of the barrel of the rifle), but it’s easily doable. long/recurve/compound bows are an option if you have the knowhow and material science.

trapping/fishing is an option, as is animal husbandry, but hunting would never disappear

bradorsomething,

So just to start on your first point, let’s assume the flare hit and you need to start making black powder from raw ingredients. Since there are no more available with supply chain breakdown, without consulting the internet (also down), where are those coming from within walking or bicycle distance with maybe a paper map if you still have one?

tallwookie,

well black powder is just a mixture of charcoal (you need wood and mud to make a charcoal pit), saltpeter (aka potassium nitrate), and sulfur. nitrate is found in many household products - hence the bathtub chemistry. there’s a lot of that stuff all over the place, it’s in just about everything - from salts, makeup products, fertilizer, plant food, etc. I’d use that first while building a natural extraction process since it takes a long time, months usually.

you’d take dung from animals (horse works well or cow patties), wood ash, dry straw, and lots of urine (barrels of the stuff). a few months later you drain off the liquid, boil it with finely ground charcoal and then filter it with cloth. simmer the strained liquid until it’s reduced by 3/4, you want it really concentrated. spill it out onto very shallow pans and let it dry to crystalize the nitrates. sulfur is readily obtained from many sources - usually volcanic but these days its in a lot of building/construction materials like gypsum. basic chemistry will allow you to extract it. I live near geologically active areas, so sulfur would be relatively easy to obtain in the future.

there’s no real set recipe for black powder, but approx 75% dried & powdered nitrates, 15% dried and powdered charcoal, 10% dried and powdered sulfur. you want to grind each individually and then mix them together in those ratios. now you have black powder. keep it dry and away from spaks/flame/heat - bull horns work really well for this.

casting shot is just melting lead in a specific form - my father probable still has his old tools for that but if he doesnt they’re not hard to make. the only tricky bit in the whole process of building your own diy black powder rifle is the barrel - you have to hand forge those around a mandrel (a rod of a specific thickness) - I’d use high grade steel rods for that, since they’re just laying around. blacksmithing is usually a two or three person setup. once I had a water wheel constructed I’d probably build a hydraulic powered trip hammer to make things easier.

bradorsomething,

I feel like if this ever happened, you’d want to practice that first step, because it might be easier to get gallons of urine then extract from a number of those sources.

tallwookie,

the average person produces about 5 cups of urine in a day, and a gallon is 16 cups, so a group of people could easily produce anywhere between 1 and 3 gallons every day. the standard drum size is 55 gallons, so that’s easily obtainable. it’s a very slow synthesis, lasting 6+ months, you’d have between 3 and 10+ drums full of urine saved up at that point.

the average black powder musket or rifle gets about 50 shots per pound of black powder, and it takes a good minute or so to reload if you’re skilled, so you really dont carry that much powder around with you at any point in time. I figure you wouldnt need more that 5 pounds of it every month in a survival/hunting/defense against random invaders (rural setting) situation.

MxM111,
@MxM111@kbin.social avatar

My brain (and everybody else’s) runs on electrical pulses. So, I die instantly.

tallwookie,

nope, emp’s and solar flares have no proven effect on animals.

MxM111,
@MxM111@kbin.social avatar

Well, the hypothetical situation is that even flashlights stop working and unrepeatable. So, brain stops working too.

ProvableGecko,

As soon as the health system is out I’m taking myself out. It’s just not worth it without medicine

AtmaJnana,

Indefinitely, but significantly less life expectancy than if it didn’t happen.

I’m relatively well set up and experienced for that kind of thing. Don’t get me wrong, it would suuuck. But I think we’d be okay. I personally would probably not live as long because living rustic is fucking hard work and my kids are still too young to help much. We’d have a rough time of it, but I am confident that with our help my kids would figure out how to thrive by the time my health is failing. So yeah at least another generation or two seems likely even though I doubt I could last more than another 10 or 15 years living that way. Especially given that the first few years would be the hardest.

FrostyCaveman,

In all likelihood the water system would probably stop working at some point, so whenever that goes plus two or three days is likely an upper bound on how long I could survive for. It’s pretty dry here so that would be a lethal problem.

If somehow it stays working, I could probably survive for a few months… basically until society and the supply chains completely break down and stop functioning followed by a period of mass starvation

NeoNachtwaechter,

the water system would probably stop working

Good point.

The sewage system as well. The smell makes life less fun, but the growth of bacteries there makes big cities uninhabitable after only a few weeks.

meco03211,

Protip. If the apocalypse begins at a punctuated point (bombs literally dropping on major powers as opposed to say global warming), fill your bathtub with water. That can hold a lot of water and should help you out.

FrostyCaveman,

An excellent idea. I’ve had it stuck in my mind since seeing The Road lol

aveline,
@aveline@lemmy.ml avatar

I live in the middle of the Mojave Desert, so I think it would depend on the time of year. There would be too many people fighting over what little water we have, and if it was in the middle of the summer, I don’t know that I would make it very long.

Ser_Salty,

Would it make you wish for a nuclear winter?

shinigamiookamiryuu,

My job and hobbies would both be affected, and I would be stuck in the middle of nowhere. Maybe a month.

MamboGator,
@MamboGator@lemmy.world avatar

About as long as it takes to fall into a diabetic coma. I’ve got my express ticket out. The rest of y’all gotta ride out the storm with the other plebs with functioning pancreases.

JusticeForPorygon,
@JusticeForPorygon@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Jokes on you there’s a water tower near my house

WillardHerman,
@WillardHerman@lemmy.world avatar

About six weeks.

After my medications run out, then about one or two weeks and I die. Period.

tallwookie,

it would depend on luck for the first few days - I’ve got weapons and I know the fastest way to gtfo of the city so I can rendezvous with my family - they’ve got some arable property in an easily defendable, low population area. family isnt prepper level but they’re big into organic gardening/natural remedies - in the late spring through late autumn they dont need to buy groceries, the land provides… there’s plenty of water there in the area, and building a water wheel isnt that difficult, nor is wire wrapping (just tedious) so as soon as we survive the winter of year 0 (and winters are pretty mild) designing a grain mill (flour) and basic electrical generation (parts are just laying around) would just be a matter of a few months. my father is big into black powder tech - i grew up learning how to manufacture it, how to cast lead shot, how to care for rifles. 1700s level tech is very simple (not super accurate but it’s better than limited modern day rounds).

so, end of post apocalypse, year 1: permanent food and water supplies secured. electrical generation secured, electrical grid expanding. base acquired & outfitted. protection/weaponry secured.

years 2 - 45 (probably got another 45 years in me), hard but rewarding survival as I rebuild society. pass the reins onto my very large family. world domination in 250 years.

meco03211,

it would depend on luck for the first few days

I hate when people try to brag that they’d easily survive the apocalypse cause they’ve prepped, or hoarded, or trained, or whatever. Like bitch if you’re in the first city to be bombed or patient zero, you dead.

fiat_lux,

When the pandemic shut a lot of the world down for a bit, I turned into Snake Plisskin from "Escape from LA" like some of apocalyptic Cinderella. Didn't everyone? /s

Army-of-one renegade lone-wolf badass-hero natural-confidence-leader fiction was a cultural mistake.

tallwookie,

go back and read the OP to see what we’re discussing. a solar flare has no real impact on animals/people and an emp has even less effect. you’re fucked if you have a pacemaker but in that event you’ve got one foot in the grave as it is and your chance of survival is not realistic. you’re not even statistically relevant. only electrical devices that are powered on and arent shielded would be affected by and emp attack anyway, but the cabling and many of the components would still work just fine.

it’s not bragging to say that I would, with a little bit of luck for the first few days (honestly compels me to admit that I wouldnt need much luck), be able to survive a scenario that would kill 80% of the population - it’s fact. I suppose if my family didnt have property where they do, the experience they do, and I was raised in a different way then I’d probably die in a ditch like the vast majority of my neighbors, but the truth of the matter is that I am just better prepared than they are. basic survival techniques, situational awareness, and an educational mindset will take you a lot further than most things when your life is on the line.

meco03211,

Perhaps I worded it poorly. I quoted you qualifying your success with the necessity for luck. I was applauding the affirmation that even with plenty of skills and preparedness, some things are out of our hands.

No doubt there would be people that had no business surviving but make it on pure luck and the goodwill of others. Though luck favors the prepared.

tallwookie,

I agree - I could easily be killed by someone as I make my way to a safe location. there’s a gas station just down the block that gets knocked over every few weeks, crime is a common thing in my area.

bradorsomething,

Please tell me you send your family pictures of the broadway lights, and they send you homemade wine.

NeoNachtwaechter,

Yes, that is to be expected from the Us americans. They would kill each other pretty soon.

moistclump,

I thought it was interesting that this poster started with weapons and protection, when in my mind the first thing to do is find community of people to work together on mutual survival.

Kolanaki,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

At least long enough to build my own hand-crank generator. Then the raiders would kill me and take it.

:(

kalkulat,
@kalkulat@lemmy.world avatar

Disguise it as a sausage grinter?

slaughtermouse,

Cannibals would kill me and grind me in it

:(

kalkulat,
@kalkulat@lemmy.world avatar

Then they’ll learn that you have really good taste.

happilybitchycowboy,
@happilybitchycowboy@lemmy.world avatar

Depends how prepared you are and how you play the cards you have. Taking care of family/others will definitely slow you down. Gas won’t last and when you start seeing people roaming around, better be somewhere safe!

MudMan,
@MudMan@kbin.social avatar

I swear American fantasies about societal collapse are so frustrating. Everybody assumes people would turn to violence and greed immediately. Either it's because it looks good in movies or they genuinely think they suck.

Meanwhile in real extreme conditions everybody is all "let's get all the famillies together to help each other gather our crops" and "I have too many lemons from my lemon tree, do you want some for free?" "Oh, only if you take some of this fish I got that may go bad instead".

morphballganon,

I know a few assholes. And if they’re assholes in times of plenty, I have no reason to think they’ll grow a moral compass when the lights go out.

MudMan,
@MudMan@kbin.social avatar

Plenty of assholes everywhere, though. It's not about a moral compass.

That's another weird one, I guess. You get this notion that suggests that rural settings somehow have the moral high ground or something. They don't. Sharing and community building are survival strategies. You help with gathering because you need help with gathering. You drop off the excess fish because at some point something needs to make up for your lack of lemons.

Going into a mad max rampage the moment the lights go off isn't being mean, it's being suicidal.

tallwookie,

it largely depends on if you’re in an urban setting (unsustainable population density) or an rural setting. in a rural setting, people are used to working together to make ends meet. in an urban setting, people are used to seeing everyone else as a stranger/potential threat - their social circle is smaller.

I currently live in an urban setting so I would gtfo immediately and go to a rural setting.

MudMan,
@MudMan@kbin.social avatar

That's fair. Having lived in both settings... well, yeah, the fact that food grows out of the ground with minimal coaxing is a distinct advantage if you have to survive a bad time.

But I've seen maps of the US. The fact that this is a culture-wide assumption goes beyond urban vs rural. You need a yard to make a bunker. Not many bunkers around here.

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