Personally, I’ve had terrible luck with Seagate drives, and the subsequent warranty process. I sent a 12TB Ironwolf back for bad sectors in July and I still don’t have my replacement. They shipped me one once, but UPS sent it back because it didn’t have clearance to cross the border into Canada. I spent hours on the chat getting bounced around, I could find no phone number to call. The experience has been awful. I’ve had other bad experiences with Seagate in the past but the price on the Ironwolfs was so good, but now I really wish I had just got some WD reds or something. I got 3 left in my QNAP and i am praying another doesn’t fail before I get this replacement or my array is toast.
I’m sorry about your experience! I actually have an IronWolf, a small 2TB one, and it’s been a year without issues. I don’t write big amounts of data daily on it though, so my experience might be different.
Oh, that’s right. Nice catch! I can probably repurpose a 256GB SSD I have, can’t I? Should be enough for OS + utilities
The plan is to get more down the road, this is a starter setup! 4TB are enough for all my data at the moment, and the second drive is for backup; I will add a third drive for redundancy and that should be enough as a starter
This may be a silly question, but why get a whole extra machine just to make 4tb available on the network? I have an old Linksys router with a USB port that allows you add USB storage to your network, that may be a good place to look if your needs are basic.
Additionally, it looks like you are going for a relatively powerful machine to be able to access a minimal amount of data at a slow speed. Have you considered just getting a couple of external hard drives and just hooking them up to a Raspberry Pi?
Going the Raspberry Pi route would cost $288-$333 depending on accessories. This could be a really good route depending on what all you want to do.
Another way to save more would be to just add the drives to an existing desktop, and just setup samba/nfs to run on it. You’d just need to leave the desktop on all the time, or turn it on when you need to access it elsewhere.
Also, for reference, I have a NAS with 40tb of storage that I use as a VPS host. I have several virtual machines running 24/7, including a Plex server. I stream many videos locally, and have many users that access my content regularly. From what I’ve learned over the years of running that machine, I know that as long as you are just directly streaming the files, and not trying to transcode them, you don’t need hardly any processing power. I don’t have a GPU in my server, and don’t see a need to put one in. If your needs are really as simple as your post suggests, the raspberry pi route would be the way to go. It would also allow you to dip your toes into running a NAS, and see where your original build was lacking, and give you a better idea for what you want your next evolution to look like.
It boils down to two things: inexperience (apparently 8GB of RAM might be enough? Just to name one issue wih my build haha) and I’ve already maxed out my main PC’s expansion slots.
I have a compact case, which is already housing two HDDs (a “landing” HDD, where I store and keep all the… Linux ISOs… until they reach a satisfactory ratio of upload, which has a 2y uptime and just recently encountered its first uncorrectable sector error, and a 2TB HDD where I keep my stuff, including the aforementioned… ISOs…, my GOG games and other media. This 2TB is backed up on a 2TB external drive, and it’s already full). Since this 2TB internal is full, I plan on moving some files to a different external HDD so I can stuff more things in it, but that leaves me with no backups for this stuff I want to move; this second external HDD is very small (650GB) so moving that stuff will make it full and I’ll have no chance to add onto that collection.
It’s a pretty unorganized situation and if I could get rid of all internal HDDs I could get rid of the HDD harness and fit a fan instead, also reduce noise.
In addition to this, I have yet to understand whether or not external drives can sustain “high” rates of writes (when I download GOG games, for example, it can easily add up to 100GB in a day) and reads (I usually seed… Linux ISOs… for tens to hundreds of GB a day). Of course these numbers arent’t for everyday, some days I download nothing for example, other days I don’t even turn on the PC.
powerful machine
And I even went for the cheapest parts I could get haha! Only way to make it less powerful is getting an Intel CPU, like the datahoarder wiki suggests, based on LGA 1150/1151, I can get one for like $20, but I can’t find used motherboards for a decent price, all around 130. That’s why I picked an AM4 platform: parts more widely available.
raspberry pi
Checked it out, unfortunately it’s out of stock in all the licensed retailers in my country. It does sound like a nice starting point, though, so I will keep an eye out for it to be restocked, but since it uses external drives I’m back to the previous question: are external drives sturdy enough to sustain the amount of data I write and read daily?
no GPU
Wait, how can you turn it on and configure eveything necessary on it without graphics? Is it all done remotely via a main machine?
Sorry for the wall of text! And thanks again for the help!
Okay, I feel like I have a better idea of what you’re looking for now.
Unless you’re using some sort of shingled drive, reads from the magnetic platter should be non-destructive, so reading files for seeding shouldn’t do much to the drives in terms of wear and tear.
External drives are fine for durability, and if you get them from a reputable company I’m sure you’ll be happy with them. Buying cheap, high capacity external drives and shucking them is a common tactic that some data hoarders will use to get the most bang for their buck. Remember that external HDDs are going to be subject to more stresses than a normal drive (people moving them while they’re on, etc), so it wouldn’t be in the best interest of the manufacturer to make them less durable than regular HDDs. You just have to keep in mind that HDDs are mechanical in nature. Anything with moving parts will wear down over time and eventually break. Typically you should expect to cycle through your drives every 4 years or so (I say this while never having cycled any of my drives and they are all working fine).
I see you also keep picking drives that have NAS in the name, just so you know, that’s mostly marketing bullshit. They name the drives with different use cases so they can charge more for them and get that little bit of extra profit. There’s very little that can be done to tune the drives firmware for those different use cases. So, just get the most capacity your can afford from the company you want to use, and don’t worry about it it has NAS in the name.
You’re going to want more storage capacity, so don’t lock yourself down with a tiny case like the Node 304. Get a case that can hold a lot of HDDs. I went with the Node 804, which has mounting spots for 8 HDDs and two 2.5" SSDs (more spots than that when you realize that SSDs have no moving parts, so it doesn’t matter where you put them). I ended buying a new bigger case within a year of building my NAS, so definitely leave yourself room to grow, it may cost more up front, but will save you money in the long term.
As far as the GPU goes, I initially got a Ryzen 3400G, which is an APU, so I just used the integrated graphics. Since then, (remember how I bought a new case within a year?) I have upgraded the CPU to a Ryzen 3800x without onboard graphics, and I am now using this motherboard, which has onboard graphics, as well as IPMI. The IPMI is amazing, and I highly recommend it; it’s allowed me to have the computer in a remote location far away from any monitors, and it only has Ethernet cables and a power cable connected.
As far as other options goes, you could also get a bigger case for the computer you already have, that would allow you to add more storage. You could also get a very large SATA SSD (I just saw an 8tb one for ~$340), and you could just shove that into your current case anywhere to hold you over until you save up to get a more dedicated build going.
I researched again for parts and, whichever way I go, it’s all very expensive.
The “cheaper” options are still expensive considered the lack of expandability: I can get, for example, two 3.5" 4TB drives for around 90-100 each, or, slightly better, two 2.5" 4TB drives for around 120-130 each; the 2.5" drives would allow me to get rid of the HDD cage in my PC and mount a fan in its place. Either way, 8TB (actually 4TB + mirrored backup) for 200-250, and I can’t expand it further.
Slightly more expensive: a one drive Synology NAS, for around 300 (including a 4TB HDD, bought separately); again, locked with no further scaling possible.
Then, a two drives Synology NAS, for 450-500 (including two 4TB drives, bought separately), no scaling. But it’s getting closer to my needs.
Finally, a four drives Synology NAS, definitely fitting for my needs, which is 500 not including drives; once I add storage, for example just two 8TB drives (to which I’d add another two down the road), I’m close to 800 (and this is by getting the cheapest 8TB drive I can find, nothing with “NAS” in the name haha).
Shucking isn’t really a financially good option, it looks like, since external drives are actually more expensive in my country.
tiny case
Well, the Node 304 can hold six drives. Realistically, that should be enough for me even if I decide to have two backups (so using two drives for storage and then the other four just to back up those two) and even if I get 8TB drives (at the moment I have just shy of 3TB of data and I think i can easily add another 2TB onto it, but further than that… not sure). Worst case scenario changing only the case is pretty painless, especially if I can sell the old one to buy the larger one.
gpu
Yeah, I know I can get an APU, issue is, with that MoBo I picked only PRO APUs support ECC RAM. For what I understand, ECC RAM, while not mandatory, is highly recommended. The data I have is not vital, but if I can avoid corruption and having to download it again, I’d rather do so. To be fair, I’m currently not using ECC RAM and I haven’t encountered data corruption in the past two or three years… so I’m a bit torn on this point now
your config
That’s a very expensive motherboard, wow! I can’t find it for less than 350! Definitely over budget for me at the moment
larger case for my current setup
This is definitely something I’ll consider, at least as a stopgap until I can build a proper NAS. This way would allow me to have many drives and I could also repurpose the ones I already have.
I think I’ll have to put this project on hold for now haha but thanks for the huge help, I’ll definitely watch that video in the meantime!
Thanks again!
edit: looks like I can shave off another 100 from the planned build, since I can get a CPU (Ryzen 5 2600) and a 550W PSU for free. Which is actually not bad. Remove one stick of RAM, since 8GB should be enough, and I can save another 30, bringing the total to around 500. Not that bad as a start! Actually, bring that back to 600, since it would make more sense to get 8TB drives since I’m already around 3TB. Still, saved money is money saved haha
I’m really happy you’re looking at all your options. Running a homelab/nas can be a lot of fun, but, you’re right, it’s expensive, but you can turn what you learn from it into potential career advancements, so it could pay for itself.
Yeah, the only thing they say is “For Ryzen Series APUs (Cezanne and Renoir), ECC is only supported with PRO CPUs.”. That’s why I didn’t pick a Ryzen with integrated GPU (I can’t find PRO models in my country). 2666 speed is supported, so those RAM I picked should work. Thanks!
I think you could do better with your storage drives. Go to pcpartpicker and look at storage then sort by price/GB ascending. The very first entry is a 6tb drive for $57
edit: forgot to mention that I’m not USA-based, sorry! Wow, US prices are amazing. In my country that one is just a little less expensive, adjusted for capacity (the ones I picked are 4TB and 120, the Barracuda is 8TB and 205)! That’s a bummer haha but thanks for the suggestion! edit: let me check the 4TB though edit2: now that’s better, the 4TB is only 89 compared to 120 needed for the IronWolf
The ones I picked are part # WD40EFRX, so CMR according to that image you linked. It’s just that PCPP doesn’t call them WD Red Plus, but they are. In the end I think I’ll go with the IronWolf instead, since they’re not that much more expensive, but more loved by the community! Thanks
10 years ago I worked at a university that had a couple people doing research on LHC data. I forget the specifics but there is a global tiered system for replication of data coming from the LHC so that researchers all around the world can access it.
I probably don’t have it right, but as I recall, raw data is replicated from the LHC to two or three other locations (tier 1). The raw data contains a lot of uninteresting data (think a DVR/VCR recording a blank TV image) so those tier 1 locations analyze the data and removes all that unneeded data. This version of the data is then replicated to a dozen or so tier 2 locations. Lots of researchers have access to HPC clusters at those tier 2 locations in order to analyze that data. I believe tier 2 could even request chunks of data from tier 1 that wasn’t originally replicated in the event a researcher had a hunch there might actually be something interesting in the “blank” data that had originally been scrubbed.
The university where I worked had its own HPC cluster that was considered tier 3. It could replicate chunks of data from tier 2 on demand in order to analyze it locally. The way it was mostly used was our researchers would use tier 2 to do some high level analysis, and when they found something interesting they would use the tier 3 cluster to do more detailed analysis. This way they could throw a significant amount of our universities HPC resources at targeted data rather than competing with hundreds of other researchers all trying to do the same thing on the tier 2 clusters.
Just some other suggestions, there's also Syncthing (for backups and syncing devices) and PhotoPrism (like the user who suggested Immich, for gallery view.)
Check out Immich for the photo backups. You can have multiple users with their own personal libraries. My family has Android and iOS backing up to my server right now, and its super nice to have it all consolidated.
Other than that, I second the nextcloud option. You can set the nextcloud app (which is available on all major OS) to auto upload pictures. Les Pas is a great way to view and manage a nextcloud photo library from Android.
One upon a time I might’ve suggested FreeNAS/TrueNAS but now that unraid supports ZFS there’s not a really compelling reason except if you can’t afford the license fee (which is very reasonable $59-$129 for a lifetime license depending on the license you want. If you don’t want ZFS you can run a standard XFS file system that can be accessed by basically anything. Parity expansion and all the good stuff.
Just saw your additional comment. You can run dockers for Plex and more or full VMs.
They also sometimes do Black Friday discounts to buy a basic license and fully upgrade it).
Look at videos by spaceinvaderone for some examples of what it can do. I have two pro licenses and it’s easily the best computer purchase I’ve made in the last two decades.
Take a look at hosting your own Nextcloud instance. It’ll replace Google drive, photos, docs, everything–there’s phone apps for iPhone and android. If you want to store your PC backups on it, that’s probably fine too. It might even work ok on the Pi 4 (though some parts it has integrations with may have trouble, like Nextcloud Office, since they may not have ARM binaries in their distribution).
It should work great on your local network and still be acceptable when uploading out and about (photos can auto sync if you turn that on on your Nextcloud phone app).
If 4TB is enough for your needs, I’d suggest getting another 4TB and making them a RAID1 pair using mdadm, and then probably also another 4TB to make backups of Nextcloud and Nextcloud data onto to keep offsite. You can never have too many copies of your data.
I’m not sure what to do about the variety of smaller drives. I can say I wouldn’t recommend consolidating them onto a single drive, because I did that once (many drives ranging from 60 gigglebytes to 300, onto one 1.5 TB drive) and then formatted or got rid of the smaller ones…and then dropped the 1.5 TB drive on the floor while it was running. Rip. But just like the above, a RAID1 array composed of two big drives would probably be fine.
Just make sure to set up some alerts for when a drive fails.
Sorry for the double post, I don’t see how to edit a post with Memmy, but at some point I’d like to use Jellyfin or Plex. Is that something that needs to be separate, or can it be combined with the rest of this?
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