I’ll wait until the 11th hour, start testing the kids out on Debian and steam see if proton can bridge the gap for them. Wife is Mac. My servers are already Linux One of my laptops is already Debian. Anything else I have from work that needs Windows is already new enough to run 11.
I do have a camera server running win 10 and blue iris. Not really sure what to do there. I have a lot of time wrapped up in Blue Iris on that box and I seriously doubt I’ll be able to run hardware acceleration in any type of compatibility layer. That box may just get cordoned off from the internet and network, or I’ll do a upgrade hack.
A thing I wish more Linux enthusiasts were more up front about: And prepare for PAPER CUTS! Because they’re there. Most Linux folks ^1 probably do 5-6 things a day that new folks would find confusing or infuriating, just because they Get Used To It.
A perfect example: My Linux desktop is a System76 Thelio-r2 running Manjaro KDE latest, which I LOVE. Every time I boot it up, if I want to use my BT speakers or headphones ^2 I have to go into the BT settings panel, wonder why it says “Bluetooth Disabled - Enable Bluetooth”, click the button, and move on with my day.
Turns out this is because of a kernel bug in the latest kernel versions with Intel bluetooth hardware. The driver times out at system boot, and thus the system is disabled by default. By the time you’re fully booted, that time out never happens so if you just click Enable, you’re good to go.
And these things are additive. They pile up and increase frustration for end users who aren’t savvy enough to know which forums to search on or what search terms to pump into their search engines.
This does not mean you shouldn’t try Linux. Please do! It can be a life changer and a serious power up! But be aware that the path will have many small roadblocks that need to be traversed, so just set your expectations accordingly, explore and have fun!
^1: I use Windows, Linux and Mac as need dictates. Let “tool to task” be the whole of the law :)
^2: Perfect example: Many Linux users wouldn’t use Bluetooth speakers! They’d get wired ones or one of those RF thingies that has long time Linux driver support. But if you’re new, you don’t know that!
I gave Manjaro a shot recently and Bluetooth was 90% unusable for anything but my mouse. Keyboard? Nope. Headset? Nope. Other headset? Nope. Bluetooth speaker? Nope. Unfortunately, it is a brand new Intel motherboard, so I can’t even get WiFi as athk12 or whatever isn’t really done. I was shocked I could get bluetooth to work at all. Sound wasn’t that great through a USB headset either, but then I could at least hear people. For me, I can really only use trackballs now and the USB port on the mouse is for charging only. Bluetooth compatibility is very very important to me and it still being shitty on any system in 2024 blows my damn mind.
Only other potential issue would be something with how Proxmox is doing passthrough, but I had just as much trouble pairing with Debian underneath through the terminal as I did with the Manjaro VM. On another note, the GPU passthrough is amazing and I had a good time playing games for the first time on Linux. This machine was never intended for gaming, but I thought it would be fun to take a server to a LAN party. Sliger case for the win! Just a 3U.
Yeah, “brand new” hardware is rough in the Linux-verse :) I think Linux advocates need to be more up front with that as well. Quite a number of them are rocking 15 year old Thinkpads because that’s what they read will maximize compatibility.
I only use 2 PCs with windows. An old laptop with XP I use for vehicle diagnostics and repair manuals, and a Win10 laptop my employer lent me for work. Option number 1 for both.
I’ve seen non-tech users in Linux many times. It doesn’t take them 2 months to acclimatise, at most 2 weeks but typically just 2 days. If there’s a blocker, there’s a blocker (like “my shitty bank requires some shitty software installed and they don’t support Linux”) but if there are no blockers it’s really quick. 95% of normal users just need a browser. The next 4% need LibreOffice. It’s only the last 1% that have some need that doesn’t sit in an office package or the browser.
We, the gamers, the geeks, the golems, WE have needs that may not be satisfied with Linux. But we are not normal users. So about 3% of us can be bothered to try and accept the missing software (and learn to love the new - God there are some apps I miss when in Windows), the remaining 97% either try and can’t accept the new habits required or don’t try.
But normal users?! Stick them in Mint Linux and show them where the browser is and they’ll be fine.
Further evidence for this is ChromeOS. It’s just a Linux distro, but worse. It does little more than run Chrome. Yet it’s popular. Anyone that tolerates ChromeOS would have an even better time on most of the standard distros if they had someone to set it up for them.
Why is Libre Office always the goto? I’ve been trying every MS Office alternative and Libre is way down on this list. It doesn’t compare. In my searching, I even found video of the creators seeming more keen to (rightly) blame MS for compatibility issues. Meanwhile alternatives just work with the reality and reduce differences in exchanging files from the world’s most common option. Plus, and this is more personal, Libre Office is dog doo ugly. Ditto for Gimp.
As someone newer to Linux, people really don’t emphasize enough the need to find alternative software that fits into one’s life. It’s all fine to say it’s all just new setups and once you learn them your good, but most world interactions with tech that isn’t your own will be Windows. Why fight the stream when you Don’t have to? There are lot of alternate Office programs is what I am saying and some are almost as good as massively funded MS Office.
Sorry I vented on you lol. WPS Office is one I liked a lot but I learned they are following local laws and so have had instances of invading privacy when using any cloud connecting aspect. It made me not trust them even outside of cloud use. It’s very very well out together though. I wish it weren’t something I felt insecure using because it is really nice.
I consider Only Office to be my goto at the moment. I still have more to try though, more obscure ones. It has only bugged on me once when I resized the window a lot, greeting me with an all white window with no UI.
Libre I tried a lot to make me love it. It just feels designed by someone who wants to make a point against MS. I did also try a complete overhaul to adjust the UI a lot but even the functionality of it just doesn’t seem to do as well when working closely with MS Office users.
Last I checked windows 11 can be installed without TPM support. I think rufus even has a simple checkbox for it and Chris Titus’s winutil can modify an ISO to do the sams
I’m a certified Microsoft hater, but man, 90 weeks? I get it, we want Gnu-Linux to be more streamlined, but his is certainly not the way. This is tech fearmongering.
I’m not an astronomer so I might be wrong, but wouldn’t the gravitational influence of stars from Andromeda in the Milky Way still be negligible, again because of much empty space there is?
Gravity is not just attraction to the closest thing but also the heaviest thing.
As the galaxies “pass” each other, all stars will be attracted to the dense cores of each galaxy. That is going to change the trajectory of individual stars and, as an aggravate effect, the overall shape and distribution. Unless the galaxies are aligned on the same angle, this is going to drag stars off the primary plane.
As the galaxies approach, the arms will stretch out to each other. As they pass through each other, the planes will tug on each other, and after they “exit”, the arms will reach back.
All this new motion will disrupt the natural shape and trajectory of the galaxy as a whole. Depending on the momentum, it could get pulled back and the whole process could happen again ( and again ) with greater disorder each time.
I understand you want people to switch to Linux but
90 weeks is far away. It drops in October 2025
You’ll still get security updates for a few years
After that there will be paid support which people will get around and find ways to install
Windows 10 LTSC (best version of Windows IMO) still exists. The Enterprise LTSC version will have support till 2027 and the IoT version will have support till 2032. You can get them if you know how to look around
Its quite difficult to get legit LTSC licenses unless you’re a large org.
Last time I looked into it anyway. You can buy ltsc keys from third parties but AFAIK Microsoft will deactivate the license if they realize how you acquired it.
All the more time for Valve to expand on Proton and push Linux compatibility, and for EA and the rest to get their thumbs out of their collective asses and support it at all
I was trying to make a Windows XP compatible app last month and my god is it ever difficult. Nothing works on XP anymore, so it’s insanely hard to test/develop software. All the legacy download links are dead too, so you can’t go install older versions of things either.
.NET 4.0 runs on XP and it is still very easy to create a .NET 4.0 application on a more modern machine. A well tested .NET app will deploy and run on Windows XP with few surprises. You cannot ask for better tooling. So, I would not say that creating new software for XP is really all that hard.
If you want to be much cooler but put in more work, check this out!
You might be surprised. First, I run EndeavourOS daily on a 2008 iMac and it not only runs but is very useful. I browse the web, watch YouTube, video conference, create office docs, play older games, do basic programming, run Docker ( well, Podman ), watch movies, read ebooks, edit audio, etc. With EOS, all my software versions are up to the minute.
The reason I use that machine so much is because of where it is. I like that spot. The reason I have not put something else there is precisely because it works so well that I have no reason to. I use XFCE to keep it light and have to restart the web browser from time-to-time to free up RAM but it is fine.
The first 64 bit Intel chips were in 2007 but AMD released the K8 way back in 2003. I do not have one to try but my guess is I could install the most recent EndeavourOS on such a machine.
That gets us to 21 years ago pretty easily.
You would be amazed at the upgradability of older hardware. You can drop 16 GB of RAM and an SSD in a 2009 MacBook.
However, you can run a 100% modern Linux distro on hardware much older than that. Many distros, including Debian, have 32 bit versions that support Pentium Pro and up. Most software available in regular Debian is also available in the 32 bit versions. The package release numbers are the same. So, totally up to date and modern software. You can run Debian 12 on 32 bit processors.
That takes us all the way back to hardware from 1995! That is just 14 years after the first IBM PC!
In practice, the biggest problem is going to be RAM. Anything below 6 GB for 64 bit and 4 GB for 32 bit is going to struggle with the size of modern software ( especially web browsers! ).
I am not sure how far back you have to go before the processor is just too slow for everyday stuff. I would guess around 2003 or so, depending on what you are doing.
You can drop 16 GB of RAM and an SSD in a 2009 MacBook.
You got a tutorial for that? Because I have a 2009 MacBook and I’d love for it to run better than it does currently. I put Debian 12 XFCE on the thing and it works, just very slowly.
ReactOS is a cool project but ultimately pointless compared to the other free alternatives we have, with libre ecosystems.
ROS is built to be a drop in replacement for the Windows operating system, while retaining all other components of the system (like proprietary drivers, programs, etc).
I expect a jump in Linux users, which is of course great news. Albeit in time I expect even more Tech companies to get into the space too, which is not optimal. As I expect them to corrupt a lot of open source projects.
I don’t get why people are removing support for Windows 10. Nobody likes Windows 11 and Windows 10 is the most popular operating system with no change of that in sight.
Today I watched a video about some information on Windows 12 hardware support. Video concluded with basically saying that if you own a laptop you will be forced to throw it away and buy another one. It’s sad because it isn’t true.
It’s sad that people think they wouldn’t be able to use their laptops. As far as I know nothing in that video is confirmed but it’s still sad that people think their old hardware that works should be replaced just because they can’t run new Windows version.
There’s still around two more years of support for Windows 10. By that time, it shouldn’t be too expensive to upgrade some components to some second-hand ones that perform better than your current ones.
Another option may be to use Windows Server 2022 Eval. You may run in to problems with software refusing to run on a server though. The initial eval lasts 180 days, but you can run a command to extend that 5 times (don’t quote me on the exact number) which will give you an updated system for years to come.
Currently running a desktop on W11 on “unsupported hardware”. Even managed to get it onto a 15 year old machine running a first gen i7 920 and not even a hint of a TPM module as an experiment and it worked perfectly fine.
Hardware that cannot support windows 11 is likely near the end of its useable life right now, so in two years people might be justified in considering buying a new and actually functional computer.
and in 2 years they will be even less capable. like someone else in this thread pointed out—the op was very baity. I know this is a linux community but trying to scare people into adopting seems weird.
I decided to try out tiny 11 on an old laptop and it’s running fine. I don’t really trust it though because it doesn’t come from an official source and it’s already an iso.
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