How long do you think is reasonable for a vendor to support their old software version once they release a new one? If they drop support in 2025, Windows 10 will have had 10 years of support. It was released back when Linux kernel 4.0 was the latest version. Would you expect distros today to support a 4.x kernel? (yes, I know RHEL still does)
Not making the switch dependent on hardware upgrades would be a requisite for me. Maaany people (and things like expensive, tightly integrated industrial systems) can’t just switch to a machine that supports Win11. Also, Microsoft promised Win10 would be their last windows version, receiving continual upgrades. So I repeat: Get fucked, Microsoft
They haven’t dropped the requirement, but you have to manually go in and disable that check yourself on the windows 11 installer if you want to install it on a non-tpm 2.0 machine
Basically, it’s a faff that only the techie people will realistically do. Everyone else will just go out and buy new hardware.
it’s gonna be “funny”: I won’t create a personal account to login to crap 11 (because why should I, if you can’t login to a desktop OS without a 3rd party account, that’s not an OS, but a gatekeeper shit), which is mandatory. So, my work machine will become unusable, therefore in fact Microsoft put my work therefore my livelihood in danger… [edit: typos]
Just this week I installed W11 on a laptop (temporarily, I just wanted to see how it ran on this hardware), and despite being connected to the it asked me, by default, for a username for the local account. I don’t know why, but it didn’t ask for a MS account first.
Was this a recent windows 11 version, from Microsoft directly? And what version of 11 (Home, Pro, etc) And what region?
The OOBE changes based on a lot of factors, but generally speaking, most users will encounter the forced account creation screen.
You can get around it by typing in “no@thanks.com” or some other bullshit. Or use the “Domain join instead” option, and then just…don’t join it to a domain.
Genuine W11 iso, downloaded directly from MS website a few weeks ago, no modification. It was a Pro version if I remember correctly. I tested it on a 2015 Surface Pro. I was already connected to the network and did not click “Domain join” (I would have if it had asked for a MS account).
It’s not mandatory to have an account to run win11. Press shift+f10 during the install to open a command prompt. Enter OOBE\BYPASSNRO into the prompt, system will reboot, disconnect the internet, when it prompts you for internet click “I don’t have internet”.
Without that command, it will not let you continue without an internet connection. If you do it a lot (I do it roughly once a week) then you can modify the installer directly.
All of them. You want to play your single player role playing game? Better have a hardware-attested system or else we can’t verify you’re not receiving that armor you need for the boss through anything but a microtransaction. It’s just 4.99€!
You can continue using Windows 10 and receive security updates for another three years when the standard 5+5 year support lifecycle ends, but you’ll have pay up. Prices haven’t been made available yet, though.
You can also trivially bypass the TPM and processor requirements and upgrade to Windows 11 (but you’ll probably lack proper Windows Hello support if you do). It’s not something end users will be able to pull off by themselves, but if you’re able to install Linux, you’re able to install Windows 11.
I did that for my desktop because it has an tpm1 chip. Works like a Charme but for example the volume slider is still the windows 10 one. And what would I need windows hello for except for Logging in via faceid or something like that?
Windows Hello isn’t just face ID (though that is where it originated in most consumer laptops). It’s an authentication system that uses the TPM to store credentials, for use with biometric authentication but also password authentication. This is what you’re using if you enable a “PIN” (which accepts letters, thanks Microsoft) to unlock your desktop. Rather than using a simple password, the password is used to unlock a TPM secret, which is then validated. That means it’s nearly impossible to brute force a login screen password without physically altering the device (i.e. opening the chassis and probing the connection between the TPM and the CPU).
It’s also the technology backing WebAuthn/FIDO passkeys that are requested to be stored on-device rather than in an account (the highest level of assurance), similar to how passkeys work on Android and iOS.
I’m not sure if Microsoft implemented all this for TPM 1.2, which most older devices ship with, but there’s a good chance they don’t bother or break support during an update because TPM 2.0 is a requirement for Windows 11
thanks for explanation. I hope my Install doesn’t randomly break because Microsoft decided it should do so. I’d hate to throw windows away for some lightweight foss distro /s
Edit: only reason for not having moved yet is just my lazy ass
I don’t think Microsoft will intentionally break anything, but with the increasing adoption of passkeys you may find that some stuff doesn’t work in the future (probably with vague error messages).
I recognise your laziness, it took me a few years of dual blotting before I switched completely. With WSL2, I’m not sure if I would still go through the effort to dual boot had I started now. On the other hand, Linux has improved a lot since I first installed it, so who knows…
Yeah I have been down that hole too it’s mostly all the online logins and sessions that I have collected over years of using that os(windows) and pc and some old data that I don’t really want to wipe but also don’t really wanna go through the hassle of copying the important stuff off of windows.
Also some of the games that I played used to have such obnoxious anti cheat systems that I couldn’t imagine the hassle to get them to work to be worth it but thanks to the steam deck adoption has increased immensely since I last tried gaming on Linux.
Wsl2 doesn’t quite do the trick for me it just makes me want the whole package but I use it for programming because I don’t know windows shell commands for shit and everything is tied into windows/ms at work^^
For your file transition: there’s a tool out there that will convert an NTFS filesystem into BTRFS, which you can install Linux to. I’m not 100% sure what the risk for data loss is, but for basic data disks it could be a quick and easy solution.
You could on theory install Linux, copy the files from your Windows home to your /home, and then get rid of all the Windows folders. You may even be able to keep some programs installed and run them under Wine if you’re lucky!
I missed the “90 weeks” bit - you made it sound like it was coming soon, you cheeky scamp.
Windows 10 will reach end of support on October 14, 2025. The current version, 22H2, will be the final version of Windows 10, and all editions will remain in support with monthly security update releases through that date.
Anyone that still wants a supported version of win 10, look into Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC (2021) - supported until 2032 and can be activated by MAS with HWID
It’s a version of Windows 10 targeted at businesses that choose to run Windows on “Internet of Things” devices. It is a “Long Term Service Channel” release that receives primarily security updates (little to no features updates), because the devices that will use this need to be in service for a very long time. Enterprise Windows typically activates with a licensing server that’s subscription based. But you can use the “Microsoft Activation Scripts” to activate it as if it were a retail copy you pick up the store.
While Microsoft Vice President for Operating Systems Terry Myerson didn’t exactly say that when he kicked off the Jan. 21 presentation of the company’s plans for Windows 10, that message was still clear.
Extrapolation by the writer in order to generate clicks by having a catchy headline? Impossible!
Microsoft just mentioned that the update procedure would make it so users running out of date and unsafe machines on the internet would not be an issue anymore, not that they would support W10 forever.
Jerry Nixon definitely said Windows 10 would be the last big release of windows, and for years, sourced reporting parroted that there will be no Windows 11.
“Right now we’re releasing Windows 10, and because Windows 10 is the last version of Windows, we’re all still working on Windows 10,” said Jerry Nixon, Microsoft’s developer evangelist, at the Ignite tech conference.
There’s no shortage of the claim being made by MS staff during keynote speeches, and those same people being quoted saying as much in reporting by TechRadar, The Verge, PC Mag, Ars Technica, CNET, for example.
I’m sorry, what?..Oh, all I heard was that my linux home server is going to be running on new hardware in about a year and a half when all these used computers go on sale. 😁
This happens every year anyways, when IT departments need to spend their remaining budget. A lot of people set up home servers on ex-office small form factor PCs like HP ProDesk/EliteDesk, Lenovo Tiny, etc. Companies are always throwing them out when they upgrade, and as a result there’s always good deals for them on ebay. A lot of companies have a 2-3 year upgrade cycle.
I know people like to hate on windows here but come on: 90 weeks is another ~18 months. It’s near the end of 2025.
While absolutely true, what you’re saying, saying 90 weeks instead of any alternative (630 days!) Is just trying to make it sounds worse than it is to push an agenda.
You’re leaving out the context that the time limit should be way longer given how long previous versions of Windows have been supported. Ending Windows 10 support when they are is a deliberate effort to force adoption of Windows 11 and avoid the embarrassment of Windows 8’s failure. They learned it’s better to scare users into compliance than to actually attract them with well developed, feature rich software. The hardware requirements just make it more egregious.
Stop giving Microsoft the benefit of the doubt, they have demonstrated more than enough times they don’t deserve it. This is them strong arming users into doing something they don’t want to do, and it should be rightfully called out for what it is: shitty.
the time limit should be way longer given how long previous versions of Windows have been supported.
The lifecycle of Win10 is actually pretty similar to that of the previous versions, which is about ~10 years. The only difference with Win10 is that it went without a successor for so long, that they’ve basically skipped one major release, leading to this relatively small timeframe between a new Windows and the EOL of the previous version.
I agree though. Given the circumstances they should’ve made an an exception and increased the lifespan for at least one or two years.
Seriously considering the switch. I already have basic familiarity because of work with raspi.
In the past, it’s been support for adobe suite that has stopped me. My livelihood depends on it. Afaik theres still no native version. Can it run on wine? If so, is there a performance hit?
You can have both. I hear dual booting has gotten a lot safer lately, but I prefer to keep windows contained in a virtual machine, which has the added benefit of snapshots for when windows update eventually does something I didn’t approve. Maintaining windows is so much less stressful when it’s not running on bare metal.
If you’re very worried about performance, then you probably will need new hardware by the time you need to make this decision anyway. I’ve never actually purchased windows directly; I just find an upgrade that bundles an OEM key if I need a new Windows.
I decided to try out tiny 11 on an old laptop and it’s running fine. I don’t really trust it though because it doesn’t come from an official source and it’s already an iso.
Hardware that cannot support windows 11 is likely near the end of its useable life right now, so in two years people might be justified in considering buying a new and actually functional computer.
and in 2 years they will be even less capable. like someone else in this thread pointed out—the op was very baity. I know this is a linux community but trying to scare people into adopting seems weird.
Currently running a desktop on W11 on “unsupported hardware”. Even managed to get it onto a 15 year old machine running a first gen i7 920 and not even a hint of a TPM module as an experiment and it worked perfectly fine.
There’s still around two more years of support for Windows 10. By that time, it shouldn’t be too expensive to upgrade some components to some second-hand ones that perform better than your current ones.
Another option may be to use Windows Server 2022 Eval. You may run in to problems with software refusing to run on a server though. The initial eval lasts 180 days, but you can run a command to extend that 5 times (don’t quote me on the exact number) which will give you an updated system for years to come.
Today I watched a video about some information on Windows 12 hardware support. Video concluded with basically saying that if you own a laptop you will be forced to throw it away and buy another one. It’s sad because it isn’t true.
It’s sad that people think they wouldn’t be able to use their laptops. As far as I know nothing in that video is confirmed but it’s still sad that people think their old hardware that works should be replaced just because they can’t run new Windows version.
I don’t get why people are removing support for Windows 10. Nobody likes Windows 11 and Windows 10 is the most popular operating system with no change of that in sight.
I expect a jump in Linux users, which is of course great news. Albeit in time I expect even more Tech companies to get into the space too, which is not optimal. As I expect them to corrupt a lot of open source projects.
ReactOS is a cool project but ultimately pointless compared to the other free alternatives we have, with libre ecosystems.
ROS is built to be a drop in replacement for the Windows operating system, while retaining all other components of the system (like proprietary drivers, programs, etc).
I was trying to make a Windows XP compatible app last month and my god is it ever difficult. Nothing works on XP anymore, so it’s insanely hard to test/develop software. All the legacy download links are dead too, so you can’t go install older versions of things either.
.NET 4.0 runs on XP and it is still very easy to create a .NET 4.0 application on a more modern machine. A well tested .NET app will deploy and run on Windows XP with few surprises. You cannot ask for better tooling. So, I would not say that creating new software for XP is really all that hard.
If you want to be much cooler but put in more work, check this out!
You might be surprised. First, I run EndeavourOS daily on a 2008 iMac and it not only runs but is very useful. I browse the web, watch YouTube, video conference, create office docs, play older games, do basic programming, run Docker ( well, Podman ), watch movies, read ebooks, edit audio, etc. With EOS, all my software versions are up to the minute.
The reason I use that machine so much is because of where it is. I like that spot. The reason I have not put something else there is precisely because it works so well that I have no reason to. I use XFCE to keep it light and have to restart the web browser from time-to-time to free up RAM but it is fine.
The first 64 bit Intel chips were in 2007 but AMD released the K8 way back in 2003. I do not have one to try but my guess is I could install the most recent EndeavourOS on such a machine.
That gets us to 21 years ago pretty easily.
You would be amazed at the upgradability of older hardware. You can drop 16 GB of RAM and an SSD in a 2009 MacBook.
However, you can run a 100% modern Linux distro on hardware much older than that. Many distros, including Debian, have 32 bit versions that support Pentium Pro and up. Most software available in regular Debian is also available in the 32 bit versions. The package release numbers are the same. So, totally up to date and modern software. You can run Debian 12 on 32 bit processors.
That takes us all the way back to hardware from 1995! That is just 14 years after the first IBM PC!
In practice, the biggest problem is going to be RAM. Anything below 6 GB for 64 bit and 4 GB for 32 bit is going to struggle with the size of modern software ( especially web browsers! ).
I am not sure how far back you have to go before the processor is just too slow for everyday stuff. I would guess around 2003 or so, depending on what you are doing.
You can drop 16 GB of RAM and an SSD in a 2009 MacBook.
You got a tutorial for that? Because I have a 2009 MacBook and I’d love for it to run better than it does currently. I put Debian 12 XFCE on the thing and it works, just very slowly.
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