Sell Me on Linux

cupcakezealot, 1 year ago (edited 1 year ago)

don’t go all in on linux when you’re already trying to get a new business up and running. it’s stressful enough without relearning an entire new os.

just install linux through virtualbox on top of windows or use a bootable usb/dvd to test drive it before you take the plunge and go all in.

if you really want to, you can install MATE on an amazon linux ec2 instance or get familiar with the command line on a micro sized free tier version.

or, for a more entry friendly approach, just enable wsl2 in windows 11 and get familiar with both gui programs and the command line. it’s not perfect but it will give you a better understanding of the underlyings of linux without having to give up the programs you’re ready for. when you’re comfortable, you can go further.

KISSmyOS, 1 year ago

I’m a big proponent of using Linux, but don’t do it.
A small company I support recently almost went under cause the boss and his former IT provider were both open source enthusiasts and set up his whole network with Linux.

Then he needed a secretary, and all applicants backed out when they heard they’d have to use Linux.
And he couldn’t find an enterprise resource planning software that ran on Linux.

vaselined, 1 year ago

This story sounds so fake

indepndnt, 1 year ago

I’m a CPA and my PC runs Linux, but also has a Windows VM for when I need Excel (unfortunately the open source alternatives just don’t cut it, and I’m guessing it’s similar for someone who relies on Word the way accountants rely on Excel), and my work laptop runs Windows.

If you ever edit PDFs with Acrobat Pro, there’s no good Linux equivalent that I’ve found for that either. It can be done, but you’ll need a couple of different programs depending on what you need to edit in the PDF.

In general I’d say that you can run your business in Linux, but it is probably not the best choice.

danielfgom, 1 year ago

Linux is about protecting your freedom as a pc user. It means the software should always work for you, never against you, and you should have the right to inspect the code, modify it at will, and even sell it on or give it away for free

There are no licence fees, no tie in, and it runs faster on your pc then windows. It doesn’t spy on your nor force updates on you.

It should run on most computers but occasionally you may have to install additional WiFi or graphics card drivers but it’s not that common anymore.

You should definitely test it first, and try do everything you do on Windows, on Linux. To do this you can either install it alongside Windows or on a separate test pc or Intel it in a virtual machine on your pc

You can also use a live usb which lets you see it in action running off a usb stick but you can’t install additional software so it’s a limited experience.

I unequivocally recommend Linux Mint over any other Linux. I’ve seen the other comments but this is by far the best best Linux distro and the one you’ll feel most comfortable on. There are other advantages as well but you’ll learn that.

Linux Mint: linuxmint.com

Virtual box(software for running vm’s): www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads

As for Office you have several choices:

1. If you pay monthly for Office you can access the full suite online via a browser. It should do everything the desktop version does.
2. Install Office alternatives that exist for Linux. There are 2 good choices to try:

A) OnlyOffice: www.onlyoffice.com/desktop.aspx

B) WPS Office: www.wps.com

In both cases you’ll need to download the deb file to install it. Deb files are like exe but for Debian and Ubuntu based Linux, think Mint is. They are the most widely available format.

I wouldn’t bother with the built in Libre Office as it’s not quite there yet. OnlyOffice can also do some PDF handling as well. You typically won’t find free PDF software for Linux as it’s proprietary software and companies like OnlyOffice likely pay Adobe some licencing fees to offer PDF edit functionality.

It might sound difficult but it’s not, especially if you enjoy computers. If not, ask an IT or nerd friend you might have for help.

Good luck.

interdimensionalmeme, 1 year ago

Use Linux and computer will devour your entire life just trying to make that thing you want, to work.

krash, 1 year ago

In addition to all the sound advice you’ve been give so far, you should have a support contract in case you run into problems and ideally, contract someone to set up your laptop so you have proper encryption, backup etc. You have to consider both meeting the business deadlines, and ensuring the confidentiality and availability of the data. If you want to do this yourself, contract someone to validate your configuration.

das_monk, 1 year ago

If you’re looking for something to buy, look elsewhere… Linux is FREE

Sage_the_Lawyer, 1 year ago

Oh I’m aware the OS is free. The affordability I was asking for was for the actual computer to run it. I guess that part wasn’t Linux-specific. Mostly just looking for a good option for a work computer that will last a while. Will probably just get some kind of refurb laptop, I’ve always had good success with those.

But if someone has a specific recommendation I’m all ears.

UnexploredEnigma, 1 year ago

If you are ever going to bring a Linux machine to display evidence, I would suggest going in and testing beforehand. Should be fine but always anticipate failures is my takeaway

Nyfure, 1 year ago

The Lenovo Business Laptops always were super strong for me.
A bit on the heavy side (at least on the older models), but build like a tank and has an awesome keyboard.
But any halfway decent Laptop will run Linux fine.

PanArab, 1 year ago

No one will try to sell you anything, not even ads

PseudoSpock, 1 year ago

You can’t be sold on Linux. Anyone ‘sold on’ or ‘lead to’ Linux isn’t going to stick with it. The desire to learn to use and be productive with Linux is purely an internal one. Selling you on it would be like trying to push you into a religion. For this, you need to sell yourself on Linux. Install it, run it, make it your daily system for a few weeks or months… then you can decide if it is for you. The questions you’ll need to find answers to are, but not limited to:

• Will it run the software I need? You mention PDF’s… Viewing non-encrypted PDF’s is no problem. For encrypted PDF forms that I’ve seen from some government sites, I needed Windows or Mac to fill them out reliably. I was able to do some within Wine, but that wasn’t stable enough to depend on.
• Be aware there are desktop choices. Linux comes in many flavours, some can present and work similar to a Windows desktop workflow, some more similar to Mac (but not quite), and some are just either heritage UNIX styles or just Linux unique. Finding what you prefer can take some trial and effort.
• I suggest Linux distributions that offer disk encryption (and be sure to use it). If you were my lawyer, I wouldn’t want the documents we share to be left around un-encrypted anywhere.

Check out some Linux periodicals, as well. They can help wet your whistle with reviews on various Linux distributions and often some introductory articles on software and How-To’s. If that kind of thing interests you, you’ve already half sold yourself on Linux.

nayminlwin, 1 year ago

It’s a rabbit hole, you have to get fairly deep into it to start reaping some “benefits”. Even if you start with something easy like cinnamon mint, there’s a small chance it might break something on major upgrade. But it’s generally fairly easy to fix if you have some grasp on the system.

The best way to learn would be to just install something like arch or debian in a VM but do everything in manual steps while trying to understand what every step’s accomplishing.

Dwalin, 1 year ago

You can do everything but you will have problems with word documents. There’s online office for better compatability with the caveat of reduced functionality. There’s great compatability with Only Office and WPS Office but its not perfect.

There was a comment recommending Zorin OS and I agree. Its a great distro to switch to from windows. Setup is easy and flathub is included in the software store.

I’d recommend trying Linux on dualboot and see if you can replace windows!

Pantherina, 1 year ago (edited 1 year ago)

As a lawyer you should always use Linux.

Have a LUKS encrypted hard drive.

Video formats? There literally are VLC, ffmpeg and MPV. Every normal format works on every Distro.

Get most apps from Flathub.org, use any Distro you want but I recommend Fedora Kinoite.

Word documents for sure, PDF editing actually too. PDF editing is cursed in itself, but Okular + PDF arranger + Firefox + sometimes GIMP (for actually censoring) work.

Have a look at Stirling PDF, a project combining all of these effords. Its not yet a fully graphical desktop app but this command will work on Fedora Kinoite:

<span style="color:#323232;">podman run -d 
</span><span style="color:#323232;">  -p 8080:8080 
</span><span style="color:#323232;">  -v /location/of/trainingData:/usr/share/tesseract-ocr/4.00/tessdata 
</span><span style="color:#323232;">  frooodle/s-pdf:latest
</span>

Then you can use StirlingPDF in your browser by opening localhost:8080

Use any modern Linux Distro and stay away from outdated Desktops like Mint (Cinnamon), XFCE, Budgie, Mate etc.

Rustmilian, 1 year ago

MPV* you have VLC twice.

Pantherina, 1 year ago

Hahah lol was tired.

EuroNutellaMan, 1 year ago

Others have given you some good advice but I’ll still give you my opinion because more data points is good.

First of all, as others said, it’s better perhaps if you switch your home computer first or try it out on a VM or dual-boot first as you learn how to use it rather than erasing Windows altogether at first. Regardless of your choice I’d recommend giving it a try still.

Affordability is not a concern at all, most Linux Distros are free and they’ll work perfectly fine, usually when you pay for distros you’re either paying for better tech support or to support the distro itself, and a lot of the software that’s on the repos is also free.

Your biggest concern probably would be re-learning the OS. Now, obviously Linux and windows work very differently, for example installing software on Linux is mainly done via an app-store or the terminal. As for graphics, shortcuts, etc, there’s two approaches here, which one is better depends on your preferences. You can either stick to something similiar to windows, so any distro that has Cinnamon, KDE plasma, or Xfce (you will have to move a few stuff and configure it a bit at the beginning) will do well, I’d recommend Linux Mint; or you can do something more different that will force you to learn something new and will tell you visually “Look, I’m not windows, I’m built different!” so something like GNOME (or customize the other DEs to something you like), personally I’m not a fan of GNOME but it works well for your use-case, as any DE will do, in this case I recommend Pop!_OS.

Both of my recommendetions use apt and are debian (through Ubuntu as the middledistro) derivatives btw. This is important because when you encounter a problem or a certain software not being in the repo it is good to look for sources closely related to your distro.

Linux can do everything you mentioned and more, however compatibility with M$ Word documents/etc can be a bit iffy. Personally I always used LibreOffice and aside from some minor annoyances never had issues with it and using .docx but I also don’t work at a professional environment that requires it to work perfectly. However you’re in luck as you can still use M$ office & other stuff from your browser if needed, tho I assume it will have less resources and will require an internet connection (this can be mitigated by working offline with LibreOffice, OpenOffice or any Office suite you like then copy-pasting it to M$ word or whatever), tho I wouldn’t know since I don’t use either and never planning on doing so. There’s also google docs.

Video types should work just fine especially common ones, VLC is a powerful tool. If you’re installing Mint make sure to install the media codecs at install.

Also I recommend learning the terminal, it may seem scary at first but it is easy, fast and will help you troubleshoot. Also accept that you will encounter problem, like in every system, and you’re expected to solve them yourself, this means you can spend a lot of time looking up stuff, learning to look at logs, etc. This will of course take time but it would take as much if not more time on windows too sometimes, on the bright side Linux tends to be a little better at telling you the problem if you know what to look for and also you almost never have to deal with an issue until the company fixes it, you can literally go and fix the code yourself if needs be. Anyways, on this end I recommend using a stable distribution (like the ones I mentioned), stick to the official repos as much as possible, and at install make a separate partition for your home folder, that way worst case scenario you can always just reinstall the OS (takes 15 mins) without losing your files*. Also, this goes for everything and I can’t stress it enough: MAKE FREQUENT BACKUPS, and better yet do them in multiple places: Proton Drive, external hard disk/USB, an other drive on your PC, whatever just have at least one, preferably 2+, place that isn’t your computer or its main drive be your backup space. This goes for Windows too and even though I assume you know it I will still say it because it’s extremely important and always overlooked.

*Unless you erase the partition by mistake or something.

P.S. also given the nature of your job, you might want to encrypt the hard disk (write the password somewhere and make sure to use a password specifically for it and one you can remember, password managers/generators don’t help here) and learn to use the gpg command when you need to encrypt and sign documents.

h3ndrik, 1 year ago (edited 1 year ago)

You need to try it. Don’t just roll it out in your business. Try it yourself before. Get an old/secondary computer and install it, try your templates and workflows. See which version (distribution) you like. Get your E-Mail connected and so on.

I can tell you Linux isn’t Windows or MacOS. For me, it works very well. I can do lots of things Windows users can not do or that are very cumbersome there, and I don’t have any advertisements or privacy issues. It respects my rights and freedoms as a user. And I’ve had way less issues with my printers and stuff than my windows-friends. I’ve never had a virus on my machine. I can’t tell you if it works for you.

I also don’t like selling it. It’s (arguably) better, faster and more user-friendly than Windows in many ways. But you need to find out if you can make use of it. One big factor against it would be familiarization with a different product. Except for that, I invite you to try it.

TCB13, 1 year ago (edited 1 year ago)

I’ll instead “un-sell” you on Linux: tadeubento.com/…/linux-desktop-a-collective-delus…

Given your job I wouldn’t do it:

People who need MS Office because once you have to collaborate with others Open/Libre/OnlyOffice won’t cut it. If one lives in a bubble and doesn’t to collaborate with others then native Linux apps might work and might even deliver a decent workflow. Once collaboration with Windows/Mac users is required then it’s game over – the “alternatives” aren’t just up to it.

Windows licenses are cheap and things work out of the box. Software runs fine, all vendors support whatever you’re trying to do and you’re productive from day zero. Sure, there are annoyances from time to time, but they’re way fewer and simpler to deal with than the hoops you’ve to go through to get a minimal and viable/productive Linux desktop experience.

It all comes down to a question of how much time (days? months?) you want to spend fixing things on Linux that simply work out of the box under Windows for a minimal fee. Buy a Windows license and spend the time you would’ve spent dealing with Linux issues doing your actual job and you’ll, most likely, get a better ROI.

Linux desktop is great, I love it but I don’t sugar coat it nor I’m delusional like most posting about it.

Maxy, 1 year ago

People who need MS Office because once you have to collaborate with others Open/Libre/OnlyOffice won’t cut it;

I use office almost daily, Libreoffice is fine for local editing and office online works if I have to collaborate.

People that just installed a password manager (KeePassXC) and a browser (Firefox/Ungoogled) via flatpak only to find out that the KeePassXC app can’t communicate with the browser extension because people are “beating around the bush” on GitHub instead of fixing the issue;

I simply installed the Bitwarden extension in Firefox and it worked flawlessly. I’m not quite sure why you would want a desktop app for a password manager (never needed this even on windows), but if you do, basically distro ships a regular Firefox package which will work just as on windows.

Anyone who wants a simple Virtual Machine and has to go thought cumbersome installation procedures like this one just to get error messages saying virtualization isn’t enable when, in fact, it is… or trying to use GNOME Boxes and have a sub-par virtualization experience;

4 commands doesn’t seem that cumbersome, it can quite literally be done in 30 seconds. Add to this the fact that it will be updated together with all other apps managed by you package manager, which is incomparably faster compared to windows update (or even most apps’ integrated self-updater)

My experience with gnome boxes was also one of the most hassle-free one ever when working with virtualisation. Worked without advanced setup on a very low-end laptop (i3 4th gen, 4gb DDR3), so I’m not quite sure what would be “sub-par”.

Designers because Adobe apps won’t run properly without having a dedicated GPU, passthrough and a some hacky way to get the image back into your main system that will cause noticeable delays;

Adobe doesn’t have a monopoly on design software. I’m not an artist though, so it could be true that the Linux alternatives aren’t full replacements. I would like to point out that, IIRC, Linus Media Group (a company with 100+ employees) uses macs for Adobe apps; windows would constantly crash, so even here the author’s conclusion (just buy a windows key) doesn’t hold up.

Gamers because of the reasons above plus a flat 5-15% performance hit;

In my experience running games though proton, this is more like a 5% difference in either direction. Native games generally run significantly better for me. Though I will admit this can depend on specific hardware and games (and proton has improved a lot over the years).

People that run old software / games because not even those will run properly on Wine;

Wine is actually starting to support an API which Microsoft has deprecated (www.phoronix.com/news/Wine-8.16-Released). These apps might only work on Linux in the future, not on windows anymore. I will admit that I’m not much of a retro gamer, and other API’s might be a different story.

Developers and sysadmins, because not everyone is using Docker and Github actions to deploy applications to some proprietary cloud solution. Finding a properly working FTP/SFTP/FTPS desktop client (similar WinSCP or Cyberduck) is an impossible task as the ones that exist fail even at basic tasks like dragging and dropping a file.

Want to start using a new language? Just apt install the new interpreter/compiler and start right away. Want to use sftp? Just type sftp into your terminal. Also, most regular file managers just support these protocols out of the box; not having to install a separate app to use these protocols sounds like a Linux win to me. Furthermore, when developing software intended for server use, linux is simply superior due to its similarity to the environment the software will eventually run on.

Just to make it clear, I understand that Linux is not perfect for everyone. But this article appears almost wilfully ignorant to multiple facts. It almost sounds like the author tried Linux for 2 hours, had a single issue they couldn’t resolve during that time (probably nvidia related, which is nvidia’s fault), and decided to give up and write salty articles instead of seeking help.

TCB13, 1 year ago

I use office almost daily, Libreoffice is fine for local editing and office online works if I have to collaborate.

So you’re essentially making the point of the article “office online works if I have to collaborate” implied that LibreOffice really isn’t up for collaboration.

Maxy, 1 year ago

Yes, libreoffice doesn’t really work for live collaboration. But office online is a good solution for that collaboration, and it works in any browser (including Firefox on Linux). Therefore, the author’s conclusion (you need windows to collaborate on word docs) is still wrong.

I personally also believe that WYSIWYG editors are highly overrated: markdown is significantly better for note-taking and similar small documents, and reports would often be better off with LaTeX or something similar. But I understand why the “4 commands is too much hassle to install VirtualBox” crowd might prefer word.

TCB13, 1 year ago

Yes, libreoffice doesn’t really work for live collaboration. But office online is a good solution for that collaboration (…) Therefore, the author’s conclusion (you need windows to collaborate on word docs) is still wrong.

The author isn’t wrong neither he’s right as the actual answer is: it depends. We don’t even have to go as far as “live collaboration” if you’ve to do serious work in MS Office apps just emailing a document to a co-worker that uses LibreOffice can end up badly. LibreOffice works, yes, until you find your custom TOC broken, macros not working, embedded content from other documents not there… images scattered around or even paragraphs ending on a different page just because the MS version of some font is slightly different from what comes with LibreOffice but different enough to totally trash your document. Even Office online has issues with some of the things I described, let alone LibreOffice and this is precisely why people in big companies buy MS Office.

Let me show you even on a very simple document I just made how wrong you are. I created the following document in MS Word and then proceeded to open it in LibreOffice just look at the comments:

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/f2684d35-6584-4f75-9bc7-677dcf8d85a1.jpeg

It’s all simple formatting a couple of headings, text and a bullet list and yet it fails.

Now even better is that if I change the document in some way in LibreOffice and try to save it I get this message:

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/5c8a65fc-9dcd-4b1a-9715-78dd9c7066f5.jpeg

So… LibreOffice can’t even ensure that the most basic formatting and features are displayed and saved properly. So much for “it works fine”.

I personally also believe that WYSIWYG editors are highly overrated: markdown is significantly better for note-taking and similar small documents, and reports would often be better off with LaTeX or something similar.

Let me guess you’re someone who works in IT and never had a typical “office job” that includes spending 90% of your time writing reports and pushing spreadsheets around. This is why you don’t get it, you’re not the typical user of MS Office and you don’t share the same use cases the OP, the article author and myself share.

Maxy, 1 year ago

Yes, some minor formatting changes occur when opening a docx file in libreoffice. Hardly sounds like a deal breaker to me. And yes, you do get a pop-up when saving to docx in libreoffice (with the toggle to disable the pop-ups right there in the message). Microsoft office does the exact same thing when saving to an odt file though: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/pictrs/image/7c7c3a1b-df3b-48c5-aeca-8e0f2b766ba9.png

Once again, if you have to collaborate with office-users (and you cannot deal with the horror of having a different amount of space between the items), just use office online. How many times do I have to repeat myself?

Let me guess you’re someone who works in IT and never had a typical “office job” that includes spending 90% of your time writing reports and pushing spreadsheets around.

1. No, I do not work in IT, nor do I aspire to work in IT. I’m just a regular PC-user, who just so happens to have other opinions than you do. HOW DARE I?!?
2. Wouldn’t IT-workers of all people know what the more optimized editors are?

This is why you don’t get it, you’re not the typical user of MS Office and you don’t share the same use cases the OP, the article author and myself share.

1. The article you shared was talking about gaming, the adobe creative suite, virtual machines, electrical engineers, labs, architects and sysadmins/developers. Please don’t try to claim that the article author and OP ever had “the same use cases”.
2. I guess you are finally correct though, I’m indeed not the typical user of MS Office (thank god). The typical user pays $70 a year just to edit word docs, while calling the family tech support each time they try to add a horizontal page in word. If your use case is being trapped into a proprietary office solution, where you have to provide a reason before microsoft allows you to shut down your onedrive, where all your documents are saved in a mythical “cloud”, then I am glad that our use-cases differ.
3. I hope you see the irony of you using markdown in a comment describing why I am “out of touch” for using markdown.

If you want to use windows, that’s fine. But please don’t share such blatantly ignorant articles, and don’t try to defend them when multiple people point out why it is wrong about so many things.

I probably won’t reply to your next reaction (should there be any) unless you come up with some actual arguments, instead of “the line spacing is broken, you’re out of touch, not me”.

TCB13, 1 year ago (edited 1 year ago)

How many times do I have to repeat myself?

And how many times do I have to tell you that Office Online doesn’t have all the features of Office Desktop? It isn’t even close.

When LibreOffice can’t even make sure text ends up on the same place (as on the screenshot) it isn’t good for collaboration with MS Office users.

Why is it so hard for you look at the screenshot and admit that it isn’t as good as you’ve been saying?

using markdown in a comment describing why I am “out of touch” for using markdown.

No, you’re not “out of touch” for using markdown, you’re “out of touch” for implying that markdown can be a solution for the typical MS Office user as you did.

h3ndrik, 1 year ago (edited 1 year ago)

I’ve debunked that article before. Nearly every statement in it is wrong.

lemmy.world/post/7068568

It’s written by someone who expected it to work 100% like the Windows on his PC he is accustomed to. But it doesn’t work that way.