Sanyanov,

Arch is easy to install; it’s a headache to manage.

If you want a stable Arch, you need to check the updates and take very granular control over packages and versioning.

While some nerds may like tinkering with their system in all those ways, for regular user Arch is simply too much effort to maintain.

corship,
Sanyanov,

Useful, but still it kinda makes you read through all the update news, which is…why?

I’d like to just hit update and not bother.

corship,

Then you’re on your own. What the duck 🦆 do you expect to happen if you can’t even invest the 10sec to skim over a message (in the few events that there even is one) to see if it affects you and any manual intervention is required.

Sanyanov, (edited )

A fully functional system, just like any other normal OS?

You hit update - boom - you get one, seamlessly, with no breakages and no other user interaction. And that’s how it works pretty much everywhere - except, you know, Arch.

If you’re fine with it - that’s fine, go ahead and tinker all you like. But don’t expect others to have the same priorities.

corship,

Yeah just like the FORCED Microsoft updates that broke like hundreds of businesses?

notebookcheck.net/Microsoft-reimburses-travel-age…

Dude go touch some grass

Sanyanov, (edited )

Man that’s news from 2016, like, it’s a bit rare occasion, y’know. You’re way more likely to get borked by Arch even after reading all the instructions, and it did happen numerous times.

Touching grass is what I do when you take steps to intervene in your system to make an update work.

I see you are an Arch maximalist, but that goes beyond reason. Even Arch proponents are normally not as aggressive on the topic, and admit Arch is too complicated in that regard.

corship, (edited )

You’re just going to shift goalposts every time I’ll post something.

Not recent enough. Not enough cases. That’s different.

And lastly you’ll just claim I do it because I’m an arch maximalist, despite not knowing anything about me :)

UnfortunateShort, (edited )

It is actually very easy:

  1. You setup auto-snapshots (almost trivial)
  2. You update
  3. Evaluate
    3.1) Repeat goto 2
    3.2) Rollback goto 2

The only problem here is that snapshots (and btrfs for that matter) are not the default behaviour. I would really appreciate Endeavour having this as the default setup. It is very likely what you’d want.

Sanyanov, (edited )

True, but if snapshots turn from first line of catastrophe response to a regular tool, this is not a good experience.

Also I believe Garuda has enabled snapshots and btrfs by default.

UnfortunateShort,

Yes, Garuda does, even with bootable snapshots, but it’s otherwise not as clean as Endeavour. As far as I can tell, mkinitcpio/GRUB2 or their setup thereof causes more problems than it solves. My system was bricked multiple times until I switched to a dracut/systemd-boot setup, which works flawlessly since quite a while.

As for the user experience, there are 0 distros you should perform a (major) upgrade on without taking a snapshot first. I had broken systems after apt upgrade. From my point of view rolling vs versioned release are basically occasional mild vs scheduled huge headaches.

mypasswordistaco,
@mypasswordistaco@iusearchlinux.fyi avatar

I don’t see the problem

furycd001,
@furycd001@lemmy.ml avatar

I’ve only ever had two problems with Arch based systems…

  1. Nvidia drivers…
  2. Installing poorly create aur packages…
Pantherina,

For nvidia I cant recommend anything but ubluw

zcj,

Why can’t everyone just agree that tumbleweed is the best distro already?

yum13241,

Because the amount of software it has available can’t hold a candle to arch. It’s not bad though, and if arch disappeared I’d switch to Tumbleweed.

I use EndeavorOS btw

KrispeeIguana,
@KrispeeIguana@lemmy.ml avatar

Arch Linux with NVIDIA is definitely not great for newbies, especially for people who can’t keep up with the distro. If left unupdated for too long, your system may break. Even if you update every day, you could break something. You just never win with a rolling release distro like this. My only saving grace is that I run with an AMD gpu and so far, that thing has just worked.

My tip for anyone switching to Linux is to switch to AMD. Even if NVIDIA is better overall for performance and features, even if the last time you tried AMD on your windows system it was slow and a bit buggy, on Linux, AMD just works, without extra steps.

Pantherina,

For nvidia use ublue. Its immutable so it will always work. If not, roll back

yianiris,
@yianiris@kafeneio.social avatar

How can a system that wasn't broken, without any changes/updates/upgrades ever break?

Its browser maybe will not be able to display some webpages correctly.

This myth/fear that arch breaks is based on ignorance and people who don't read output during an upgrade, it otherwise never happens.

AMD gpu vs Nvidia .. 1-0
Intel gpu boots without linux-firmware pkgs.
Nvidia, old and new, you get what you deserve.

@KrispeeIguana @Pantherina

KrispeeIguana,
@KrispeeIguana@lemmy.ml avatar

My point is less that leaving Arch alone breaks things and more that updating after a really long time can break something. It also kinda defeats the point of using a rolling release distro. I can see how you thought i was spreading misinformation though. My bad for poor wording.

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