Communist,
@Communist@lemmy.ml avatar

Arch has an awesome installer now so this is pretty dated.

banneryear1868,

Yeah all the most popular distros have basically been next>next>done since 2010 minimum on most hardware.

Mango,

I’ve tried Arch before. I don’t really remember it being a hassle. I’ve even installed Gentoo but never used it. Sabayon was the good shit.

stefenauris,
@stefenauris@pawb.social avatar

omg I remember Sabayon! The theming was terrific on it

Mango,

All the goodness of Gentoo with pacman and none of the pain! Nightly builds! BLEEDING EDGE.

TootSweet,

I use Arch, BTW.

I feed on your hatred.

_cnt0,

I can feel your anger. It makes you stronger, gives you focus.

https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/a30a58dd-6fc6-4f4b-bb05-f0b2b0d67137.jpeg

NoXzema,

I started using EndeavourOS which is pretty close to Arch with a better installer. Uses their repos unlike Manjaro.

seaQueue,
@seaQueue@lemmy.world avatar

Friends don’t let friends use Manjaro

miss_brainfart,
@miss_brainfart@lemmy.ml avatar

But… Endeavour though

kucing,

EndeavourOS gang rise up 🤘

takeda,

I love how “unbiased” it is and I’m not even an arch user.

_cnt0,

Yah, I’m a huge fan of factual content. Biased people suck.

Prunebutt,

Not sure if ironic, or an incredible idiot.

_cnt0,

Could be both. There’s so many lunatics here, you can never be sure.

spacesweedkid27,

I don’t use arch btw

BlinkerFluid,
@BlinkerFluid@lemmy.one avatar

I quit using Arch after about ten years of using it because Team Fortress 2 quit working and none of the resolutions on protondb fixed my issue.

Priorities, people.

Confetti_Camouflage, (edited )
@Confetti_Camouflage@pawb.social avatar

The 32bit libtcmalloc_minimal.so.4 that all Source 1 games ship with needs to be updated. You can symlink it to your system’s version to get TF2 running again. It’s usually only a matter of time before it starts to effect more downstream distros.

The other problem I have with TF2 is queueing for casual just stops for no discernable reason or error every time, even if I’m not the party host. But then I come back later and it works again? Only real solution I’ve found is to have my friends queue without me and then join after they’ve found a match.

BlinkerFluid, (edited )
@BlinkerFluid@lemmy.one avatar

See, I did all that… and then audio broke. So, I couldn’t anymore, man. I probably could’ve copied the install, kept it updated and held it for a resolution but I just don’t demand that much from my builds anymore really. I went with Mint with XFCE and haven’t had a single issue since install. I’m good. If it comes down to Ubuntu’s base, a lot more eyes will be on the problem and I’ll sort it out then.

cpw,

Debian guy could have just downloaded the nonfree installer that includes some common wifi and other hardware firmwares. There are some pragmatists at Debian.

Jumuta,

before debian 12 though, it was kinda hard to find the nonfree netinstaller on their site

caseyweederman,

Also… It’s included in all versions starting with Bookworm.

n00b001,

Well… Say that to my live USB I tried booting off of a machine with a very modern nVidia card. I had to create a new boot entry to disable nouveau and install nVidia proprietary graphics into a persistent partition.

I understand nVidia is shit, and doesn’t play nice with others. But my point is - it’s not always that easy. (I thought it would be! I lost many hours, and pulled out lots of hair!)

rambaroo,

The boot entry is for secure boot. It would be required by any distro not just Debian.

n00b001,

It’s not related to secure boot (I have that disabled) it’s related to nouveu drivers not supporting the 4090 (yet)

_cnt0,

Not in the good old days. Back in 2000something I built a custom installer image with a backported kernel from testing and some firmware to get debian installed on a new laptop.

Pantherina,

Agree but Debian is still damn manual compared to many Fedora quality of life improvements.

Meanwhile, removing snaps and replacing with flatpaks on a set up ubuntu system is crazy! All those loop mounts suddenly start showing up when snapd is gone

netwren,

Honestly this is the reason I want an immutable build of Arch like NixOS.

Let me roll back my mistakes and I could live more happily with rolling release.

takeda,

I love it, because you can also get best out of both worlds in relation to the comic discusses. You can personalize OS to your liking, and the entire configuration is in a file, so you can redeploy the same setup again.

PainInTheAES, (edited )

I feel like I keep posting this everywhere but there’s a project called AstOS that attempts this. Also someone clued me in on this distro neutral solution. AshOS. Full disclosure I haven’t used either.

netwren,

I’m looking to reload my daily driver and there’s just not enough support for that.

PainInTheAES,

Oh totally fair, it doesn’t have a huge maintainer base for sure. But it’ll never be anyone’s daily driver if no one knows about it.

takeda, (edited )

It looks like solutions like these miss the whole point of what Nix is trying to do. Nix comes with the belief: “Unix has some fundamental issues, because it was designed in specific way. If we store things differently it works really well, and we even get those cool properties for free”.

The authors of those projects instead of thinking “this looks interesting, and it is a paradigm shift but it might be worth to to try feel like Linux noob for some time and start thinking a bit differently how the file system is structured to see if this change is really worth it”

Instead it is: “I don’t need to be PhD in Computer Science (whatever that means), here is how I can force this Nix feature or two on traditional Linux, with ansible, bubble gum and some duct tape and make it immutable-ish, which fails sometimes but, hey, it has the same feature on paper.”

PainInTheAES,

Well to be fair I think it’s because they aren’t trying to be NixOS. You could leverage those arguments against any distro that’s trying out an immutable flavor. Which is mostly accomplished through btrfs features.

I agree that Nix/NixOS does a lot more and it’s a genuinely impressive and paradigm shifting project but it does break with traditional Linux layouts and thinking in a way that immutability doesn’t necessarily have to do.

You could also make the same argument with the systemd and non-systemd crowd.

Either way I look forward to the future of both immutability projects and NixOS. I feel like both areas still need a bit of work but they’re both really exciting fields.

IjonTichy,
Shatur,
@Shatur@lemmy.ml avatar

You can downgrade packages on arch too via downgrade.

Schmeckinger, (edited )

If your pc still boots.

Shatur, (edited )
@Shatur@lemmy.ml avatar

Just add rescue to kernel options (if you use GRUB, press e to edit it for the current boot) and it will boot into console from which you can do downgrade.

seaQueue,
@seaQueue@lemmy.world avatar

When I started using Arch I just set it up on a btrfs filesystem and wrote a simple btrbk hook to take a snapshot before any package updates. That made it trivial to unfuck anything that broke after an update. I can’t remember the last time I had to roll the system back but it’s nice for peace of mind.

CarlosCheddar,

That’s quite clever, are there any guides for getting that set up? I’m using btrfs but haven’t gotten into snapshotting yet.

seaQueue, (edited )
@seaQueue@lemmy.world avatar

Start by playing with subvolumes and snapshots so you can get a feel for how they work. Once you’ve got that down you can break down your root filesystem into sensible subvolume chunks (/, /home, /var/log, /var/cache etc) so that you only snapshot relevant content during each update. I wrote a btrbk config at that point, tested it a few times and then wrote a pacman hook to fire it on install, update or package remove events and went from there.

Here’s what I use to take snapshots - you’ll need to write an appropriate btrbk config file for your subvolume layout but it’s otherwise feature complete. gitlab.com/arglebargle-arch/btrbk-autosnap

Like I mentioned above, I haven’t actually needed to roll the system back in ages but I get a lot of mileage out of being able to reach back in time and grab old versions of files for comparison.

Time shift is a lot easier if you’re just starting out but it also requires a specific subvolume structure and isn’t very flexible.

Edit: pro tip: don’t make /var a separate subvolume from /, it’s way, way, way too easy to roll one or the other (/ or /var) back without the other. If you do that by accident pacman’s state becomes out of sync with the running system and everything breaks. Stick to splitting frequently rewritten data like /var/cache and /var/log off, leave /var itself in the root subvolume.

penquin,
@penquin@lemmy.kde.social avatar

Timeshift, Timeshift auto-snap, and btrfs in the grub menu to have your snapshots there, too. Auto-snap takes a snapshot automatically whenever you upgrade or install some packages.

Klaymore,
@Klaymore@sh.itjust.works avatar

You mean like nixos-unstable, the rolling release channel of NixOS?

netwren,

Well yeah obviously like NixOS. My reason for not using it is that they use a non standard Linux filesystem and it renders a # of packages I want to install incompatible.

russjr08,
@russjr08@outpost.zeuslink.net avatar

In that case, couldn’t you just use something like btrfs snapshots + Timeshift to pull this off?

netwren,

Yeah you could put some together I think, possibly with OverlayFS as well.

I feel like the value those distros add is not just the rolling mechanism but the package manager being tied into it.

So you just use the package manager like any other and it works.

iopq,

Which packages?

  1. Check nixpkgs unstable, they might have been added in the last few months before stable release
  2. Try steam-run, it will run binaries like you’re in a normal distro

I ended up packaging the thing myself, actually. The best part is my pull request was approved and I was able to contribute my work

dual_sport_dork,
@dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world avatar

My first real experience with installing/running Linux on my own machine back in the day was with Gentoo. My experience was basically the same as Arch guy there, except with the added step of compiling every single component from source. On a Celeron equipped laptop. Nobody warned me about that part.

It took fucking ages. I was stuck in textmode land with Matrix code flying up the screen for like three fucking days, before I even got to a shell prompt.

I gave up. I just run Debian now.

banneryear1868,

I remember back in 2000s Gentoo was a distro you got cred for being able to install.

boomzilla, (edited )

I was in an IT school around 2012. I thought I was the only one using Linux besides Windows (predominantely though). I wasn’t. He was daily-driving Gentoo where most of the students haven’t even heard of Linux the kernel before confronted with a bash shell in a course.

I’d say in 2000 only the nerdiest people, academics or professionals knew the difference between say Red Hat or Gentoo at least here in Central Europe. Windows 95 (and 98) came pre-installed on every OEM PC and the best windows to that date (2000) would come out that year and I guess everybody was hyped for XP. Saying you are compiling your kernel and software yourself with GCC would have only got you puzzled faces instead of kudos in 2000 here.

rhacer,

After you’ve done Linux from scratch, Gentoo is a walk in the park

user224,
@user224@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

I should maybe attempt that at some point.

But knowing my brain, I’ll just forget everything 0.4 seconds after I am done.

rhacer,

I did mine closer to 20 years ago, I’m guessing things might have changed a bit since then. That said I ran Gentoo on an IBM ThinkPad for about five years before switching to OSX.

xeekei,

Maybe Debian guy and Fedora guy should get a room. Btw.

_cnt0,

You can join btw :P

tetraodon, (edited )

When I finish setting up Wayland btw, pleb

xeekei,

In a bit, still picking aur helper, it’s harder than it looks since the community switches favorite every month.

kttnpunk,
@kttnpunk@lemmy.world avatar

I’ve found Garuda pretty much gets you all the perks of Arch without the drawbacks and installs just as quickly as debian if not faster. And I love ancient Linux memes as much as anybody but neither Debian or fedora is much to write home about nowadays IMHO.

aniki,

deleted_by_author

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  • PainInTheAES,

    It doesn’t come with a cool gamer theme out of the box 😎😎

    embed_me,
    @embed_me@programming.dev avatar

    Almost none

    m_r_butts,

    deleted_by_author

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  • kttnpunk,
    @kttnpunk@lemmy.world avatar

    Endeavour is a great alternative IMHO, but Garuda’s development is definitely more skewed towards gaming and comes with a lot preinstalled/preconfigured.

    Holzkohlen,

    I’d say it’s even more simple. Comes with stuff like snapper and zram preconfigured and a bunch of tools to do various things. I use their KDE lite version since I do not like their theme AT ALL.

    mateomaui,

    Debian guy could have saved time by connecting to lan after boot and installing the wifi package directly.

    everett,

    Or for laptops with no Ethernet, USB-tether a phone.

    mateomaui,

    I completely forgot there are laptops with no lan port now.

    dezmd,
    @dezmd@lemmy.world avatar

    NOT IN THIS HOUSE THERE AREN’T, YOUNG MAN!

    user224,
    @user224@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    For some reason, this didn’t work on my old phone after installing PixelExperience 11 on it.
    There’s a third way. Bluetooth. At least you don’t need a cable, and you’ll save power.

    For that reason, I usually use Bluetooth instead of Wi-Fi, unless I need higher bandwidth (except during peak hours of network usage, when my connection speed is below 1Mbps anyway).

    caseyweederman,

    Or installed Bookworm.

    mateomaui,

    Guess it depends on hardware, I still had to add the wifi driver for bookworm.

    HyonoKo,

    Happened to me a few times already that the ethernet drivers are unfree.

    mateomaui,

    WHAT?! I would have never guessed that. Lan has always seemed to be the one part that’s dependable, no matter what’s booting.

    HyonoKo,

    Last time was the integrated lan card in an MSI motherboard if I remember correctly.

    _cnt0,

    shakes fist at heaven

    Damned thou shalt be, Atheros gigabit ethernet chip!

    pelya,

    You don’t install Fedora. You buy a server with pre-installed Fedora and a three-year support contract.

    You don’t care about updates. You don’t care if it breaks. You just get a replacement server, covered by a contract.

    ninjan,

    While RHEL and Fedora are siblings we can’t mix em’ like that. At least I haven’t ever seen a server with Fedora pre-installed, or anyone offering support on a Fedora server…

    pelya,

    We have a piece of fancy and expensive radio equipment in the office, the control part is a Fedora server, with precompiled binaries that run that piece of hardware. Every system library has frozen version, if you upgrade the OS the whole system stops working, and you just reinstall the disk image from the archive, and by reinstall I mean use dd to overwrite the hard drive partition from a supplied DVD.

    ninjan,

    Huh, at least it’s Linux I guess? I’ve seen plenty Windows XP hanging around controlling expensive medical equipment and one time even a system were the control part was Windows 3.1. Air gapped not for security but because the server didn’t have a NIC.

    _cnt0,

    You really shouldn’t run fedora on production servers.

    sharkfucker420,
    @sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml avatar

    And I’ll keep using it

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