Yeah, itâs a death cult through and through. I get some people chose to be child free, but people relate themselves as anti-natalism ainât just about that.
Iâm not exactly antinatalist, but Iâm somewhat sympathetic to their position. The way I see it is this: humanityâs effect on nature is on the average, harmful.
Weâve been very successful as a species, but at the cost of a lot of others that werenât able to cope with our success. Perhaps some species which are useful to usâsometimes just by being cute, have learned to live with us, or have learned to live despite us, have managed to thrive. But for one species that gained our protection, how many others have disappeared with no one caring?
If thatâs not bad enough, I donât think that the average individual human being is thriving. Weâve destroyed a lot only to build depressing cubicles for us to rot in.
I donât think itâs worth it.
Having a child means condemning them into an ever worsening world. And I donât think Iâll be able to properly equip my child to even have a smidge of a chance of being âwell-offâ, healthy or even happy.
However, our innate instincts, as well as societal and other pressures pushes people to have children even when itâs not going to end well for the children as well as their parents. Antinatalism is a counterbalance to this pressure.
What youâve described is simply a deathcult, but from your perspective lol. Just because you sympathise with them doesnât make them less of a deathcult.
However, you might need that for yourself.
Because iâm not receptive toward the deathcultist idea?
Is it more depressing than humans killing everything in sight including a whole damn planet with no control over their greed?
What would you say if there was a bug that is able to live almost anywhere on earth, destroying the nearby environment and making animals go extinct, poisoning the water, sky, soil, leaving trash thatâs radioactive, poison filled or very hard to degrade, while killing each other for profit and doing imaginably dark and amoral things?
We kill insects for doing a lot less. Yet when it comes to us, weâre free to harm everything and everyone, and when someone says âwe should destroy this species, theyâre dangerous!â Theyâre therapy worthy.
I think whatâs therapy worthy is not being aware of even a fraction of the dark shit that goes on in the world and being content because their bubble holds up just fine and thatâs all that matters. Its delusion of grandeur experienced by a whole species. Anyone who says otherwise is ridiculed and treated like theyâre ill. Isnât that convenient
Right or wrong is beside the point. Therapy is about emotional balance and well-being. I sincerely hope youâre well but these kinds of rants often come across as personal anger being projected on topic x. I donât doubt thatâs how you see the world around you at the moment but not everyone does and that doesnât mean theyâre wrong, blind or stupid. Some people can see the same atrocious state you see and counterbalance it with the good they can also see around them. Being aware of our species wrong-doings is as important as becoming sensitive to its virtues. If someone canât see any virtues at all, to the point they advocate death, theyâre more likely either insensitive or have been handed a very rough hand in life. Therapy can help in any of those cases.
Actually, right or wrong is the point. Iâm making an argument based on facts, and your argument is based on wild assumptions about me, based on my few paragraphs, not your actual thoughts. If you had good counter points then I would change my mind, but you donât.
The problem isnât the hand I was dealt with - itâs everyones. I have been lucky enough to have a not too bad, not too good existence but that never stopped me from looking at the less unfortunate to understand how they live. Do you want to talk about child prostitutes, slaves, people who have to scrape food from others trash cans to eat? Living in a coffin size âapartmentsâ in Asian slums? People who have nowhere to eat, sleep, nowhere to call theirs? Who work with their hands in awful conditions for a life for millionaires theyâd never mert? Aside from people, what about the countless dead animals, for sports, just fun etc? Had to die because their forests were taken and burned? Thousands of gallons of poison in all oceans, microplastics in our veins? What kind of virtue counter-acts this kind of destruction?
See, there are so many things that we do that require rage. I am not raging about my life, I am raging about the life we created in this world for ourselves and everything else. You may choose to bury your head in the sand and keep saying âoh, thereâs a virtue, my life is worth living nowâ when you see another rainforest burning down, or another child murdered, that means youâre desensitised. You feeling good or bad about these things donât change a damn thing.
Also, to make it clear, antinatalists are not terrorists or something lol, they oppose pain. They simply choose not to reproduce. This isnât as extreme as any of you are making it to be.
Cool. Iâm not making an argument nor countering whatever it is you believe, please donât mistake my engagement, have zero interest in âdiscussingâ with you. I was merely answering your question about my previous comment. Live as you see fit.
Oh, sorry, did any of your pearls fall? Thanks for your precious âengagementâ. I surely wonât mistake it with any meaningful encounter. Just another one with someone who lacks knowledge but has opinions on the matter for some reason, and cannot be bothered to think for a second to make an argument that isnât empty virtue signaling.
I guess itâs scary for some people to participate in even a conversation about something new with an open mind without being condescending. All while defending âvirtueâ, ironically.
Thank you. At least one person here knows what anti-natalism actually stands for. People would do good on at least reading the Wikipedia article, instead of already dooming a new community, only because on Reddit child free subreddits promoted a hostile environment. They arenât even the same thing.
Iâve noticed however that people get incredible sensitive on the topic of âdonât have childrenâ, where all reasoning is thrown out of the window. Itâs one of those topics that clashes with the biology, psychology and social indoctrination of individuals. Itâs highly unlikely to possibly discuss this with a lot of people, who lack self reflection and awareness of their surroundings. Because if weâre honest, most people live their life on auto mode anyways.
Of course unregulated subreddit or sublemmy, will unavoidably drift into the extrem. All of them have this tendency, thatâs why moderators and rules are important. One might argue that itâs a natural cause of unregulated topics and discussions, as humans themselves are socially diverse and at the same time very controversial beings, whom prefer to form groups/tribes and ultimately end with a self amplifying echo chamber if not constantly reminded and course corrected.
Back to anti-natalism, people at least should understand the decision table of life vs no life, possible suffering vs no suffering. Itâs simple logic in my eyes. Not even talking about the current future were heading, which in itself exposes the selfish act of reproduction.
And lastly, itâs sad to see people question your sanity for correcting and explaining a maliciously twisted topic. Seriousness of educated people often gets mistaken as mental issue by the lesser. Iâm not even that smart and often want to scream at the screen. Best to practice some stoicism, my friend.
Thank you, my man. Itâs weird how many people have negative thoughts about this without knowing anything about it. Iâm not even an antinatalist lol, though Iâm very close to it, I am childfree - those communities only represented the most extreme, most hostile persons and Iâve never participated. But that doesnât matter to the humanistic, holistic, full of virtue person. Talk about self awareness and irony.
Itâs okay, Iâve been online enough to observe that when s certain kind of person feel that they canât âwinâ the argument by discussion, they tend to take it to to the personal level and enrage you by insults. For me thereâs no winner, just ideas being discussed so Iâm not offended. So boring to have such a fragile mindset that can be broken so easily by mere thoughs it has to be defended. Now whatâs depressing is knowing that these people hold the majority. Still, thanks for your concern.
Childfree lifestyle is becoming the norm fast, btw - even in my little family oriented country, childfree services such as hotels have increased rapidly, and childfree people arenât that frowned upon anymore. People can downvote and insult me here all they want but things are changing because they have to. Soon there will be more, and it will be a normal thing to have a neighbor childfree old couple. Then we will be able to talk about it without getting pitchforked to hell and back.
I suppose that the vitriol surrounding this topic is tied to the innate biological pressures towards procreation. Life is supposed to the ultimate good. People like us who have doubted this assertion are not only fighting against long-held societal norms, but also biological instincts. It also doesnât help that having a child (or not) is one of the most impactful personal decisions one can ever make. Having a child not only affects your life, your partner, but most especially, the child themself! Itâs something that will permanently change oneâs life, and those around them for better or for worse.
Iâm not even against people who choose to have children (the so-called âbreedersâ in antinatalist communities). If their lives are enriched by having children and forming a family, more power to them! Even more so if they can provide the child with what they would need to thrive, or at least survive in this world.
Perhaps this trend of growing sentiment towards childfree lifestyles is yet one of those bio-sociological mechanisms driving us to having more quality children instead of just having more children. Children that would be able to live better, more fulfilling lives than I can ever hope for, and can thrive in the shitty world weâve left for them.
I would argue that the problem you are pointing out is cultural rather than biological. Humans are very well capable of living sustainably and respectfully and have done so for extended periods of times in different regions of the world. The endless consumtion of an ending earth seems like something that developed together with (e.g. western, capitalist, âŠ) culture and ideology.
We need to work on changing our collective mindset rather than attempt our own disappearance. Second part of argument: I believe we can. Humans are very capable to adapt and change. Not sure about collectives, but if you think you can convice a critical number of people to stop reproducing, I think you can do the same in convincing us to please fix our shit.
That community had itâs place. Sadly the one on reddit became toxic over time. Perhaps on Lemmy these topics can be discussed by adults without it turning into a dumpster fire.
Thatâs literally what it is. Itâs people who want humanity to die out, but without suicide, war, or murder, but instead merely by not reproducing. Iâve seen their communities and it pretty much comes back to misanthropyâ hating humanity.
A large amount of my outlook revolves around the notion that once you can forgive ANY human for existing, the justifications for holding much of anything against(or mistreating) any but a select (relatively)few just melt away and indulging in the notion that I myself am exceptionally horrible (self-loathing) is just vanity.
I honestly donât get how someone can come to the conclusion that ending humanity is absolutely desirable and not just skip to the step of ending themselves. Thatâs surrendering the high ground at step one, and just because I believe they deserve to draw breath more than they do doesnât mean I wonât block anyone who openly subscribes to such ideals in a heartbeat.
We got here by being horrible. Iâll believe any other intelligent(or otherwise) life got so far without similar skeletons in their closets when I see it. Not them or anyone else claiming it, but like, a godâs-eye-view of their entire history. Pretending we canât get over it is just an excuse for further horrors.
Youâre not wrong, but thereâs a kind of irony in it when you talk about ending humanity because of it. Thereâs a lot to hate about humanity if you have humanity and have human values. Thereâs nothing objectively wrong about being cruel or destructive or dishonest or greedy or abusive or murderous and I imagine most hypothetical alien species would look at those things and say âwhatâs wrong with any of that?â
But because humans evolved as social creatures and our survival depended upon trusting one another, weâre constantly trying to judge ourselves against values that canât actually be met. So we look at ourselves and say weâre a really horrible species, but that statement only makes sense because ironically weâre a really glorious species thatâs fabricated these completely irrational things like love and compassion and empathy and honesty and sacrifice that no other species has (though many other social species do have bits and pieces of them).
And weâll forever hate ourselves for not being able to live up to our own values.
As someone who legitimately likes the idea of cooking but rarely does it ^and^ ^uh,^ ^has^ ^a^ ^sous^ ^vide^ ^gathering^ ^dust^ this sounds like itâs 100% for me. I subscribed!
In the world of server stability, a period as short as 7 days is extremely short. And only 99,7 in such a short time is quite bad. That suggests itâll go down for a total of 30min every week.
Thank you. Weâre always discussing ways to try to grow our community and Lemmy itself. And we try to involve the users as much as possible. I believe itâs their community and they should have a say in what happens to it.
Thanks for the kbin link <3 Even tho for kbin it would be better to use @ horrormovies @ lemmy.film without spaces, because kbin.social is not the only instance using kbin software and @horrormovies is universal for all kbin instances
(Even tho for me ! lemmy links recently work fine too on kbin?)
Thank you, I appreciate any Forza related content.
Iâm still looking for someone to post the weekly challenges and rewards for both Horizon 4 and 5. Sadly thatâs the one thing I go to reddit for still.
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