Don't be that guy.

When you’re talking to an open source dev, just remember that they are literally giving you their time for free, and they are people who don’t like to be treated poorly.

Edit: Just to be clear, I don’t mean any ill will toward the guy. He’s frustrated and he’s just taking it out in the wrong venue at the wrong people, but that doesn’t mean he’s a bad person.

Edit 2: The reinstalling he’s talking about is NPM. So just running npm install. It’s because he tried removing the node_modules directory, which is a reasonable thing to do, but it means you need to reinstall the modules with that command.

ogeist,

There is always a risk using libraries from others. If you install something without knowing what you are doing and without considering the risks, you should not be installing it.

corvus, (edited )
@corvus@lemmy.ml avatar

You are literally sending 99% of the new Linux users back to Windows haha. C’ mon its not that hard, look at what custom ROM developers do. They put a big disclaimer warning of the risks of installing the software. You won’t find a single user blaming the devs for a bricked phone, and there are lot of them. The one who has to consider the risks and warn about them is the dev, just because (s)he is the one who knows the software better and not all users are developers and they usually don’t know what are the risks.

ogeist,

You can install shit in Windows too, it is exactly the same case when grandma installs too many toolbars in Internet Explorer 6. No one is warning you there that you might be installing malware.

What I mean is that there are already curated repositories for each distro that can be accessed easily by the package manager. If you go outside of your package manager and repos, gloves are off, you better know what you are doing.

Regarding custom ROMs, since you brought it up and being a custom ROM enthusiast, there are still a lot of complaints, nastiness and pressure from the users similar to this. Installing a ROM has definitely a higher knowledge barrier and that makes you aware of the risks, also you will brick your phone before you are able to install a ROM… if you don’t know what you are doing.

Finally, the developer here in this very lemmy post mentions that the OP of that bug report was working with them in order to solve the issue. The one on the screenshot was just a random dude unnecessarily being rude. Free software is usually delivered as is with no warranties, specifically small projects and libraries.

Thanks for coming to my TED.talk

demesisx, (edited )
@demesisx@infosec.pub avatar

Don’t be that second guy, use Nix.

I agree with OP, but the whole confrontation could’ve been avoided in the first place if all dependencies were spelled out to the letter in the form of a flake.nix with the latest accompanying flake.lock file.

hperrin,

It’s a frontend JavaScript UI library. I can’t control what other dependencies people install alongside my library, or even whether they follow my library’s dependency list.

ParetoOptimalDev,

Isn’t package.json for controlling what dependency versions people install with?

I think I’m missing something.

jjjalljs,

Yeah JavaScript is a horrible language and ecosystem in a lot of ways, but package.json and friends don’t really give me much trouble.

And even if you hose something, you should be able to clear it out and reinstall easily.

I’m assuming the maintainer didn’t (knowingly) make a breaking change in a minor/patch release. That’s a high crime.

hperrin, (edited )

Yes, and I have a package.json that lists dependencies and the versions I test with. You can force a different version though. I don’t think that’s what happened here. I’m guessing it’s a version of some dependency that should work, because it was released as a minor version within the range I specified, but doesn’t actually work.

It could also be an issue with the build system/bundler, which I can’t really control either.

demesisx,
@demesisx@infosec.pub avatar

Are you sure about that?

taladar,

Don’t be the guy who ignores reports that your software doesn’t work with new dependency versions just because you can’t be arsed to test with anything else even if the report looks like a legitimate problem.

hperrin,

I have been testing with the original reporter of the problem. This guy came in, said he had the same problem, then cursed at me.

taladar,

That was less directed at you and more at the idea that just pinning versions solves the issue which is unfortunately very frequent among proponents of things like vendoring, nix, Docker containers and similar tools that allow a project to stay on an old version for potentially years. Sorry if that came across that way.

Ashiette,

I swear Nix users are the mormons of the Linux world.

AlmightySnoo,
@AlmightySnoo@lemmy.world avatar

They’re worse than us Arch users (btw)

fl42v,

As a former arch user, I advocate for both XD

natecox,
@natecox@programming.dev avatar

I’m a nix user and I’m disappointed by how apt this comparison is.

noodlejetski,

ehehehe you said “apt”

Trail,

Did you get it?

noodlejetski,

I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE KIND SIR I DID GET YOUR SUBTLE REFERENCE

ParetoOptimalDev,

Yes, but one of our promises is real… Just a real pain in the ass sometimes.

Abnorc,

Are you saying that I will get my own planet if I use Nix?

demesisx,
@demesisx@infosec.pub avatar

Guilty. But substitute Mormonism with the proper way to do things.

null,

Upvoted in Nix solidarity. One day they’ll understand.

demesisx,
@demesisx@infosec.pub avatar

I think it’s funny. We are the new “I use Arch, BTW” and I’m happy to embrace it.

null,

I just hate having to re-configure all my stuff whenever I set up a new box 🤷

demesisx,
@demesisx@infosec.pub avatar

Agreed. That and I hate Docker with a burning passion.

jadedwench,

As someone who is out of the loop a lot, what is it about Docker that you hate? What do you use instead?

It took me weeks to wrap my head around it, but now I enjoy being able to spin something up without too much work. At work we have the whole CICD thing with Docker and K8, but I am pretty far removed from what they have to do in the run files.

What other kinds of workflows do people use these days?

demesisx,
@demesisx@infosec.pub avatar

Nix flakes are all I need to completely replace Docker.

ky56,

Open source developers: Why aren’t more people using open source software software for everything. It’s better.

Also open source developers: Oh it broke your computer, well that’s your problem. You should have had a software engineering degree in order to vet the software yourself.

User goes back to closed source paid spyware… ahem software.

Open source developers: Why aren’t more people using open source software software for everything. It’s better.

hperrin, (edited )

It didn’t break his computer. In trying to fix it, he deleted his node_modules directory, and now he’s complaining that he has to run npm install and wait for it to finish.

So to be clear, it was his own action that caused him to have to reinstall everything.

ky56,

The entitlement of the open source community can be astonishingly deaf. You tell users that open source is better, users try it and your response is, oh it’s free software, you get what you pay for.

Pay who? If I donate do I get paid support? Almost any other paid product/service based off that project almost certainly won’t be open source and probably subscription spyware. So your answer to use open source is don’t use open source???

If this is your attitude on your repo then don’t imply/demonstrate it as for production ready use. It a personal fun dev project not fit for mainstream use. Pick a side, you can’t have both.

hperrin,

I actually offer consulting services for this library in particular, so yes, if you pay, you get paid support.

CurlyMoustache,
@CurlyMoustache@lemmy.world avatar

There’s a difference between trying to find out what is wrong and being a cunt.

If this person had asked politely after quickly searching for answers, the developer’s response would most likely be different and helpful

ky56,

Absolutely. Should have clarifying that I’m not defending the attitude and abuse of developers. However driving non technical end users to insanity with ill thought through processes is also wrong. Such as expecting users to write bug reports when an automated tool should be being used. An unclear installation guide where 90% of user run into the same problem. etc.

Linus’s (LTT) Linux challenge was the ultimate test of the open source community and they failed miserably. Blaming linus for bricking the system. Um hello, he never should have been incentivized to open the command line at all.

baseless_discourse, (edited )

There is a tradeoff between UX, user liberty, and user privacy. Traditionally, Linux is leaning heavily towards liberty. However now there are systems have locked down core system (like chrome os or mac os), so it is impossible to mess things up. Yet user might complain that they “cannot do anything”.

As for telemetry, privacy is a fundamental pillar of human right. I admire FOSS communities’ stance on privacy by default, and I don’t think they should change that. Although now opt-in privacy preserving telemetry is slowly getting implemented in Linux, I think it is a good thing, but needs still be treated carefully. Privacy-preserving telemetry is good, but it is notoriously hard to guarantee such correctness.

Finally, I think the bug Linus encountered is extremely rare. The flatpak install script is broken, and the apt install removes DE. I don’t think there are any documented incident of both installation methods to have such critical failure. It is even more unfortunate that it happens just as the most popular tech youtuber decides to try Linux.

seth,

Are you the developer for SMUI? Small world to see a username I recognized from another site. Nice-looking components! 👍

hperrin,

I am. Thanks! :) I built my email service, port87.com with it.

seth,

Oh that’s an interesting concept, I’ve been using username+label@gmail in a similar way for years, and missed it when I switched to proton

JustinAngel,

this sort of stuff is rampant. A few years old but it makes my blood boil every time I think about it.

Tool Creator should work on this, it ain’t making no sense that the default json file (Google) is not updated cause seeing that work on Google tells us that it definitely works on all sites

@drk1wi please resolve google.json file to stop this cookie disabled error

Seems minor but the tone of the demand is wildly entitled.

xan1242,
@xan1242@lemmy.ml avatar

This goes for inter-developer communication too. Be nice to one another. Someone just wants to help sometimes.

corsicanguppy,

Don’t worry: I intend to NEVER be that guy. I don’t even USE the word ‘literally’ except ironically, so I think I’m safe.

starman2112, (edited )
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

I’ve literally never used the word “literally” unironically in my life

mindbleach,

See also: the hard parts of open source.

dessalines,

I just watched this, it was a very good video, experienced a lot of the same things he did/does, thx. Was really interesting learning about the history of some these “alienated loner with god-complex” that was cultivated in early tech. Also good stuff about how the purpose for a given space shapes the discussion and interactions.

A lot of us understand the problem: that silicon-valley, in pursuit of profits and engagement, has wrecked peoples brains with traumatizing ragebait for years, and how stressful it makes all of our lives. We have to do everything we can to make these spaces the opposite: enjoyable, fun, and at the same time not addictive.

Gooey0210, (edited )

Or don’t be that “don’t use any of my GPLv3 packages in your projects, because i don’t want”

Or, that guy who is “My project is free and open source, please don’t use for piracy, i don’t support piracy”

But yeah, complaining sucks, especially from somebody who doesn’t have his hands dirty, to somebody who does

And for free projects, don’t pay- don’t expect anything And even when paying, don’t expect much Just make stuff yourself, only making everything yourself you can be sure it will be good

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