Me vs my ISP

So I was looking into getting port forwarding set up and I realized just how closed-off the internet has gotten since the early days. It’s concerning. It used to be you would buy your own router and connect it to the internet, and that router would control port-forwarding and what-have-you.

Now, your ISP provides your router, which runs their firmware, which (in my case) doesn’t even have the option to enable port forwarding.

It gets worse - because ISPs are choosing NATs over IPv6, so even if you install a custom firmware on your router without it getting blacklisted by your ISP, you still can’t expose your server to the internet because the NAT refuses to forward traffic your way. They even devise special NAT schemes like symmetric NAT to thwart hole punching.

Basically this all means that I have to purchase my web hosting separately. Or relay all the traffic through an unnecessary third party, introducing a point of failure.

It’s frustrating.

I like to control my stuff. I don’t like to depend on other people or be in a position where I have to trust someone not to fuck with my shit. Like, if the only thing outside my apartment that mattered to my website was a DNS record, I’d be really happy with that.

Edit: TIL ISPs in the US don’t have NATs

Edit 2: OMG so much advice. My knowledge about computers is SO clearly outdated, I have a lot of things to read up on.

Edit 3: There’s definitely a CGNAT involved since the WAN ip in the router config is not the same as the one I get when I use a website that echos my IP address. Far as I can tell my devices don’t get unique IPv6 addresses either. (funnily enough, if I check my IP address on my phone using roaming data, there’s no IPv6 address at all). It’s a router/modem combo, at least I think since there’s only one device in my apartment (maybe there’s a modem managing the whole complex or something?). And it doesn’t have a bridge mode, except for OTT. Might try plugging my own router into it, but it feels like a waste of time and money from what I’m seeing. Probably best to just host services over a VPN or smth.

Edit 4: Devices do get unique IPv6 addresses, but it’s moot since I can’t do anything but ping them. I guess it wouldn’t be port forwarding but something else that I would have to do that my router doesn’t support

onlinepersona,

Can’t switch ISPs? I’d tell them exactly why I’m switching.

misophist,

In my country, the ISP rents you a modem and router. I told them I had my own modem and router during setup and my monthly cost is slightly less than their advertised price.

I am fortunate that my ISP gives me a routable address, but it is still only dynamic and may change a couple times a year. I would have to pay for a commercial plan if I want a static IP. Some other local ISPs use carrier grade NAT, but you can still request a publicly routable static IP with a business plan. Maybe you can ask your ISP for that?

DudeDudenson,

In my country we just buy a router and ask the ISP to set the modem/router in bridge mode

bruhduh,
@bruhduh@lemmy.world avatar

Cheapest vps plus “sshuttle” may work, host everything on your home server but have dedicated ip of your vps

WindowsEnjoyer,

First time hearing about sshuttle, thanks! What I did some time ago is to order small VPS in Linode, hosted wireguard server and let my router connect to it. Since connection is established - I’ve port-forwarded all ports (except 22) from VPS to my router via established wireguard connection.

Then all I have to do is to manage port forwarding on my router, but if I want to connect to my router from outside - I must use VPS IP.

Worked great, except the fact that I used to have mobile internet and as a rule of thumb - upload speed of mobile internet suck ass…

bruhduh,
@bruhduh@lemmy.world avatar

Check this out github.com/MHSanaei/3x-ui

DivisionResult,

Use cloudflare tunnel.

BlackSkinnedJew,

What do you need to do, why do you need a public IP?

theblueredditrefugee, (edited )

Well, I don’t need it, not really. It’s just I’m finally in a position where I’m not stressed about things like rent and healthcare, and I’m realizing I wanna fuck around with hosting my own websites. Possibly a lemmy instance, I was toying with the idea of developing a P2P social networking protocol that federates with lemmy. But also the idea of building my own websites so I’m not dependent on others for my income, or just making it easier for people to download stuff that I’m the only seeder of.

Definitely not a need. My rent is paid, my food is healthy, healthcare is cheap. So now I can worry about stuff like this that ultimately doesn’t matter

WarmApplePieShrek,

You can rent a server in a data center. Hetzner is pretty good… unless it thinks you’re a “risky customer” and bans you.

mateomaui,

I bought my own cable modem and router for less than what my ISP would charge to rent them to me. They control nothing on my end.

glitch1985, (edited )

deleted_by_author

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    mateomaui, (edited )

    I can do whatever I need to.

    edit: if it wasn’t clear, I didn’t buy them from my ISP, so my ISP had nothing to do with the firmware on it.

    herrvogel,

    ? How would that even work? Does openwrt have a feature where it can hack into the ISP’s infrastructure and modify their QoS settings?

    ccdfa,

    That’s not what modems or routers do. Your ISP sets your speed somewhere else, not at the modem/router level.

    Rodneyck,

    Same, never use their equipment if possible, cheaper and you are in control.

    Shinji_Ikari,
    @Shinji_Ikari@hexbear.net avatar

    Is your service fiber? Is your router a combined ONT and router? If its not and you have an ONT serving ethernet to the router, you can just plug your own router in.

    You said it’s through china mobile so is it a cell modem/router?

    theblueredditrefugee,

    Just checked, it looks like it’s fiber. Definitely has something plugged into the wall anyway - I’m kinda afraid of unplugging it and ruining my internet access.

    Shinji_Ikari,
    @Shinji_Ikari@hexbear.net avatar

    Idk how it works in china, is the wire coming from the wall a thin sorta stiff wire? or is it a thicker wire(5-10mm across) that is bendy?

    If the latter, you can just plug that ethernet cable into your own router.

    If its a fiber cable then I dont know if you can have your own ONT.

    Corgana,
    @Corgana@startrek.website avatar

    Apologies if you’ve answered this elsewhere but I’m assuming there’s a reason you haven’t bought your own router?

    averyminya,

    Is that possible with something like T-Mobile Home Internet?

    Corgana,
    @Corgana@startrek.website avatar

    idk that’s why I asked

    yamanii, (edited )
    @yamanii@lemmy.world avatar

    Yep, the US reserved most of the ipv4 for them so they have no need for CGNAT, I had to change my ISP to host a terraria server for my friends because of it, but if you don’t live in a big city you have no options.

    I read that you can say to your ISP that you need port forwarding to use a remote camera system and they will make an exception for you, but I just switched since I even got a better speed deal.

    circuscritic,

    Standard IPv4 NAT or CGNAT?

    Are you using their modem AND router? Or just their modem? If it’s a modem router combo, can you place it in bridge/passthrough mode?

    Even if it’s CGNAT and no bridge mode, their are solutions available.

    Are you looking to host private services like NextCloud? Or public services like a website?

    theblueredditrefugee,

    Far as I can tell there’s no bridge mode, and there’s only one device in the space that connects me to the internet. Pretty sure it’s a CGNAT, and I wanna host a website

    ulkesh,
    @ulkesh@beehaw.org avatar

    I don’t know what you mean by ISPs in the US don’t have NATs. They most certainly do NAT at the gateway device. But they also typically provide a way to DMZ to your own router instead. I don’t have to deal with double NAT simply because I effectively have my ISP gateway in bridge mode (forwarding all traffic to a specific device, in this case, my personal router).

    Note: I have gigabit FTTH from AT&T. I left cable internet the moment fiber service was made available.

    kaupas24,

    I had a fun little issue a while back where my isp replaced our fiber modem to one that didn't allow for port forwarding. The settings were missing but when I set up dmz host on that to allow our equipment to work again, I noticed it was behind some nat in their system. I found out I could call them to get functionality restored for a fee, but instead I plugged in the old box and still keep an external ip with port forwarding enabled and no nat. To be honest the old one has been a lot less stubborn as it doesn't drop every 10th packet on the network. I switched back about 6 months ago, and I've not had any issues, so we'll see when they call demanding me to plug in the new one. Their explanation for switching systems was that their old one wasn't powerful enough for gigabit speeds, even though both have interfaces for gigabit sfp. After some testing, the old one was more capable and stable at those speeds. I assume they wanted to switch systems due to some licensing thing, or to get more money from the .5% of people who care about these features.

    bayank,

    Might not be ideal but perhaps simpler, do you have the ability to upgrade your service to business class? Usually the business tiers allow such things and they will support self hosting and open up the ports for you if you ask. It will likely cost more for the same speed you currently have. Another option to consider

    BradleyUffner,

    Just a bit of a warning if you do this. Business class service usually requires full year contacts, and breaking the contract can mean THOUSANDS of dollars in termination fees depending on the timing.

    WarmApplePieShrek,

    Asking is free

    narc0tic_bird,

    Here in Germany I get a “real” (non-shared) IPv4 address and a /48 IPv6 subnet I think. With Telekom at least. Vodafone is another story. I think the user must be able to use their own router because of some EU law.

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