Random thought: Windows is largely successful because of Piracy

Windows as a software package would have never been affordable to individuals or local-level orgs in countries like India and Bangladesh (especially in the 2000’s) that are now powerhouses of IT. Same for many SE Asian, Eastern European, African and LatinoAmerican countries as well.

Had the OS been too difficult to pirate, educators and local institutions in these countries would have certainly shifted to Linux and the like. The fact that Windows could be pirated easily is the main factor that led to its ubiquity and allowed it to become a household name. Its rapid popularity in the '00s and early ‘10s cemented its status as the PC operating system. It is probably the same for Microsoft Office as well (it is still a part of many schools’ standard curricula).

The fact that Windows still remains pirateable to this day is perhaps intentional on Microsoft’s part.

Voltage808s,
@Voltage808s@kerala.party avatar

I saw a yt video few years ago about how microsoft allowed windows piracy on South Asian countries to increase windows adoption rate.

dontcarebear,
@dontcarebear@lemmy.world avatar

I agree. If they would’ve locked piracy down sincerely, Linux might have had a shot back in the 90’s.

0x4E4F,

Yeah, the 90’s were the turning point for MS. If they flopped, we would have a whole different story right now. Unfortunately, they didn’t… which is why we have to have everything MS compliant right now on OSes that share nothing in common with Windows.

Samba and Wine are perfect examples.

ninjan,

Absolutely, and Microsoft knows this. You could even upgrade a pirated version of Windows to a legit copy when they did the upgrade drive for 7 I believe it was. Did it myself. And they completely turn a blind eye to OEM key reselling, which is why you can get legit windows keys for less than $10 these days.

They’ve also never done anything substantial against pirates, all they do is pester about buying a key and warn about the risks. The “worst” they do is stop you from using windows update which some see as a feature. When they could just completely lock you out and/or report you to the police.

The money is in server for Microsoft, but they’re losing that battle slowly but surely since they can’t make windows actually work properly in a container setting. I have customers that love Microsoft but despite their best efforts at making containerized windows workloads work it just sucks major ass. And virtually everybody is coming around to realize just how insane of a paradigm shift containers are.

And losing that battle is why 12 will likely move to subscription. And I’m willing to bet money that, in 10 years time, will be considered the starting point for Microsofts dramatic loss of market share in the home PC market. From 90% or so now down to like 50 ish %. But maybe some smart guys at Microsoft will nip that in the bud.

lemmyvore,

I would argue there’s nothing to snip in the bud, since the home PC is a dying breed anyway. It is increasingly only used by hobbyists and professionals. Some people will use a laptop issued from work but the choice of OS in those cases is seldom theirs. Other than that it’s all phones, tablets, consoles, TVs etc.

The PC market itself is shrinking.

JetpackJackson,

Wait fr?

CumBroth, (edited )
@CumBroth@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Yes. It’s even extreme in some places. For example, more than half of Australian households reported in a 2022 survey that they never accessed the internet from a desktop PC that year (source; also, paywall warning). In Hungary, desktop ownership dropped from 47.5% in 2014 to 39.2% 2019. It’s safe to assume the downwards trend has continued into 2023.

Japan dropped from 81.7% in 2013 to 69% in 2022 (this is for PC ownership in general and doesn’t differentiate between desktops and laptops) and Germany dropped from 64.5% (desktops) in 2006 to 42.9% in 2022.

Even African countries, which had depressingly low computer ownership to begin with, have seen a stagnation at around 7.5% (yes, it’s that low) between 2015 and 2019.

These are just a few examples, but you’ll see a similar trend everywhere you look. Looking at these statistics reminds me of this Apple ad: www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfR_Jj4grZE

Edit: WTH, Spain?

ZariZari,

Dude you are talking about “Desktop PC”.

A lot of people have switched to Laptops because they can stay in bed.

Usually TV content is pretty bad and with the “old Netflix” people got a coffe table to put the laptop on the table and watch movies, youtube, etc.

Also a lot of people sees Desktop a non necessity because of phones and tablets. In today standards laptops have become really powerful to even code software or even doing photoshoping reliable.

In the end desktops have become only powerhouses of performances towards gaming, streaming or servers.

Desktop = gaming(usually in 2023).

Desktop are not a dieing breed, people changed and bought devices that serves their purposes. Whi should i buy a desktop anymore if a phones does just as good as a desktop in terms of browsing the internet, whatch videos even netflix. In this case desktops have no purpose again(just buy a phone or a tablet).

JetpackJackson,

Wow that’s just crazy. I thought it was going the other way

DoisBigo,

PCs are expensive and unpractical.

I wanted a PC, bought a tablet. Ideally, I’d want a SFFPC plus screens that I could easily move. I’d settle for a SFFPC with a dedicated graphics card if I couldn’t move it. I’d also settle for a notebook that would allow me to easily swap HDDs/SSDs. However, none of those things are possible and/or have a good cost-benefit, so I got a tablet.

Notebooks are too clunky compared to tablets because they are attached to a keyboard and to a screen. If those parts were removable, they would be more successful. Tablets would also be more popular if you could use them as PC screens (some from Lenovo already come with this featur).

Manufacturers are moving in the opposite direction, soldering memory, and making as hard as possible to change parts.

GrindingGears,

13 or so years ago, whenever the first iPads were coming out, that was my first thought. Why don’t they take their laptops, and have the screen removable that it instantly turns into an iPad? Or a windows computer that does the same thing. Microsoft did it with the surface, and it worked pretty well. Still wasn’t quite what I had imagined, but pretty much was. Apple could have made a killing doing something like that, I’m still convinced (if it was PC based when docked though, not their cell phone/iPad OS).

ninjan,

I don’t disagree with PCs being on a strong downward trend. But the point of Windows on PCs has always been familiarity such that it’s what’s prefered and feel easiest for servers. Without their domination of home PC no company would be running Windows Server these days. And the last people to stop using PCs at home are bound to be tech people that have some say in what type of servers to run.

That said Microsoft has been divesting from their reliance on Windows Server so it’s not like they’ll die from this. But it’s going to mean we’ll hopefully be rid of Windows Server soon!

GrindingGears,

I’m not sure I buy that 12 is going to be subscription based. I think that would be the straw that broke the camels back. I think we are peak subscription at this point, it’s getting hard to justify this ever growing faucet of money outflows to these friggin subscriptions. Cell phones are quickly becoming PC replacements too. Maybe not in our lives, but for a lot of the common folks that just want to browse and email, absolutely they are. This is why you are seeing Apple’s OS and Android increasingly becoming more PC-like. The next battlefield, I think, is going to be Android vs Windows. Android is currently free, which isn’t going to bode well for a 12 subscription model.

ColeSloth,

They won’t go subscription for most users. They know with 100% certainty that their home market share will crumble if they did, and that would lead into business share.

Linux has become too easy to use and thanks to an awesome hard push from Valve with the Steam Deck, gamers don’t even need windows anymore, with the exception of some online games with brutal anti cheat software baked in.

Black616Angel,

Although I mostly agree with you, this is not true:

The “worst” they do is stop you from using windows update

The worst they do is practically force you to buy a windows license with most laptops and even some pre-built tower PCs.

Yes there are some vendors/manufacturers who don’t force you or ask, if you want an Ubuntu/Mint/Pop_!OS or smth. but most just don’t give a shit.

umbrella,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

in my country vendors are forced to offer a free OS/no OS option.

most new laptops here come with linux preinstalled lol

alvvayson,

You are right, but it’s not just poor developed countries and not just windows either.

Back in the 1990s, copy protection in general was weak and companies wishing to expand market share did not prioritize combating piracy.

They always just focused on making the big companies pay through licensing audits and kept prices high to ensure revenue.

The whole industry just accepted that students, researchers and tinkerers would pirate their software.

Photoshop, Office, Visual Studio and even enterprise software like Oracle had this dual strategy: let piracy help spread market share among those who can’t or won’t pay, while maintaining high prices and security audits to drive revenue from companies.

Many companies still follow this strategy.

somnuz,

Yup, when I was talking with a few different Microsoft representatives, they just straightforwardly stated that they don’t focus at all on punishing or pushing consequences for “obtained/purchased windows instances via any existing alternative/not supported ways” when it comes to private/home users.

They surely and happily will put the idea of buying a key or official upgrade from their certified resellers locally or online on the table.

It is quite a different story with larger organizations and companies.

—

Of course all this info is based on just a few talks during the last decade and with incoming subscription (ugh) model a lot will change, I guess.

Valmond,

That’s how they got around selling at a loss to crush the competition I guess.

pragmakist,
@pragmakist@kbin.social avatar

The vast majority of the value of a consumer facing computer system is in the people who help other people.

They know that.

IWantToFuckSpez,

Same with Photoshop, Maya etc. These corps know that letting consumers pirate their software will create more legit end users. Since people will get used to their software and won’t easily switch when they enter the professional workforce where these corps don’t condone piracy and actually audit businesses. At least in Western nations they even audit small businesses. Like my friend used to work at a small engineering firm in the Netherlands and Autodesk came by to audit the CAD licenses.

people_are_cute,
@people_are_cute@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

How do those companies audit businesses that they don’t know are using their software? Do they have a special force built just to track creative releases from indie makers?

Moonrise2473,

at work we once bought licenses from Autodesk and one day, when we realized that we didn’t need it anymore and we could use a better alternative, they sent us a letter where they assumed that we stopped paying because we started to pirate. They basically threatened us to allow to run some malware on our computers to check compliance, or someone could tip us off to local authorities. They even tried to bribe the person who read the letter by ending the letter with something like “in case of piracy, the whistleblower could be rewarded financially”. It was a regular mail, so we just ignored it.

lemmyvore,

That’s very common with Microsoft products too. Their vendors get to use @microsoft.com emails (distinguishable by an extra “v”) so they frequently pose as “auditors” to pressure businesses into buying licenses.

It’s a grey area because a business with all licenses in order would not care either way, but software being what it is it’s hard to stay compliant all the time even if you try, and that’s when the vultures descend.

For example say you appoint a new CTO and they realize your company of 200 PCs uses pirate Office copies, so they buy 200 genuine licenses, but they’re cut short of actually installing the matching Office version because Office is a piece of malware-acting crap and is actually very hard to completely purge from a domain install. So they end up holding correct licenses but using technically pirated versions. This is where a genuine audit would not care (you paid for the newer version and are using the older, crappier version; due to their fault, I might add? you do you Microsoft got paid) — but an unscrupulous vendor would try to scare you into paying more to “fix it”.

nakal,
@nakal@kbin.social avatar

From a private end user point of view yes. But in enterprises Windows and Office is successful. Lots of money is going to Microsoft here.

people_are_cute,
@people_are_cute@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Windows and Office were successful in enterprises precisely because they were popular and the familiar choice among staff. They got popular from piracy.

Moonrise2473,

it’s a bit disingenuous to think that corporations are using windows just because employees are familiar with that. Unless the work is only using a web browser, you need programs and stuff, you don’t simply switch to Linux. Especially when “familiar with windows” for an average employee it just means “know where the icons are, and open Facebook in a browser”.

A corporation would surely love to save $100k if they could just have a windows skin on Linux and force employees to watch a 1-hour video on training to use the new system. But then if they need to run [PROGRAM X]? and if they need to run [PROGRAM Y]? And what if some quirk of running [PROGRAM Z] on Wine introduces some bug that causes slowdowns and monetary loss?

They intentionally choose windows, and they will pay whatever Microsoft tells them because:

  1. they can have support from less specialized (=cheaper) techs
  2. they can control everything of their computers from a centralized position. If they want, they can force push the goatse image as the wallpaper on each single employee and nobody could change that.
  3. it works well with the programs they use, and they are in a configuration that can be supported by techs
PostingInPublic,

I think your third point is key, one thing Microsoft does very well is backwards compatibility. We run programs from the 90s in production. It is a nightmare of APIs layered upon APIs, but the programs will run.

puppy,

Unless the work is only using a web browser, you need programs and stuff,

My employer is a sizeable tech firm that uses the Microsoft suite. The irony is that developers use WSL because the software they need are on Linux. We haven’t switched to Linux just because the IT department doesn’t know shit about managing a Linux fleet of devices. They haven’t bothered to get the training/certificates because Windows is the status quo for big corps. This will stay this way until the next gen of sys admins form the majority, I guess.

doublejay1999,
@doublejay1999@lemmy.world avatar

When most people bought their PCs, Windows was already bought and paid for and installed by the vendor, so piracy might not have hit as hard as you think.

If you’re Microsoft, that last thing you want is people having a choice of operating system - either in the store, or when they get home - so you make sure it’s a done deal before the PC is unboxed.

That’s SOP for Microsoft, and what got them into trouble when they were bundling Internet Explorer.

It’s also worth noting, that Linux hasn’t always been a competitive desktop product for the home market.

Tom_bishop,

This is far from true in 3rd world. People buy pc without os, the shop helped customers install pirated version because its way more cheaper than buying preinstalled windows pc. There’s people who still remember the windows cd key by heart more than they remember their spouse’s birth date.

Xanvial,

In 2000s at least in SEA most likely the installed windows when buying a new PC or Laptop is pirated copy. Even now you can request that if the laptop is not bundled with Genuine Windows

puppy,

Same with South Asia. That’s how the independent resellers do it. The authorised resellers either mark up the price for the Windows license or sell without an OS for a reduced price.

Aux,

Mate, the most advanced and popular MS product activator is open source, hosted on GitHub owned by Microsoft and Microsoft is fully aware of it. And, just like in the 90-s when one serial key was known to every human on earth and was never blocked, they give exactly zero fucks. I won’t even be surprised if I see some commits with bug fixes from Microsoft themselves.

pete_the_cat,

If no one knew about Windows, why would they want to use it in the first place? You don’t see your average Joe or Jane installing Linux on their brand new PC. For most of them, Windows is the only OS that they know of. I’ve mentioned Linux to these types of people before and the usual response is “if it’s so good, how come over never heard about it?” or “if they give it away for free, how do they make money?”

SaltySalamander,
@SaltySalamander@kbin.social avatar

just like in the 90-s when one serial key was known to every human on earth and was never blocked

How would they have blocked it? Windows activation didn't exist in the 90s.

Aux,

They could block it in new releases and service packs if they wanted to. But they never did. When XP came out with online updates, the keys were once again well known and were never blocked.

ultratiem,
@ultratiem@lemmy.ca avatar

Yeah, solid take. Even today, the vast vast majority of people don’t even realize Windows isn’t free because every single PC sold, comes with it, preinstalled.

Microsoft’s real dominance is having schools (pre and post secondary), businesses, governments and just about anyone they can force a license on to run their software. Windows, Office (a third of my first year computer course was learning MS Office ffs), etc.

That’s why they got slammed with a multi million dollar class action: www.thatsuitemoney.ca for manipulating their licensing and subsequent fees associated.

Sadly, a pittance when compared to how much they got from all those shady deals. Piracy doesn’t even touch them.

Moonrise2473,

For private individuals and small institutions, yes, they would definitely use linux if windows was 100% impossible to pirate.

For corporations and bigger institutions, no, they would 100% continue to use windows just because of the control they can have on their devices, group policies, single sign on, and so on. It’s possible to do that on Linux, but not as easily. They’re already paying 15 dollars / month to microsoft just for AAD/entra/[whatever they call it this week] or even more to have office integrated with that and $200 for a permanent license for a single PC is a drop in the bucket

lemmyvore,

group policies, single sign on, and so on. It’s possible to do that on Linux, but not as easily.

It is just as easy, if you have a sysadmin who knows what they’re doing. Which is the case for Microsoft too, you need someone knowledgeable for the implementation and management anyway.

This is where Windows being “free” and everywhere comes in, everybody buys Microsoft without a second thought.

SkyeStarfall,

Linux is designed to be able to do group policies like that very well

Remember, Linux originates back from the terminal days, and the vast majority of servers run Linux. If any OS is made to function well in large organizations, it’s Linux. Windows is popular on desktop for reasons other than better group policies.

Excrubulent,
@Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

When I was working IT in a place that produced transcripts - so we had loads of typists all using Windows and MS Word loaded down with a thousand macros - the IT department made all of the servers linux based, and all our production was stored on samba shares. The only reason they hadn’t transitioned the entire workforce to linux was resistance from management.

I imagine there would’ve been resistance from users too, but all of the inertia was due to familiarity and had absolutely nothing to do with technical barriers. The entire IT team was frothing at the mouth to be free of Microsoft’s arbitrary BS. Windows caused us no end of headaches.

In fact, because every typist needed a browser open at all times to research legal terms and other details, I had a number of people complain their computer was running slowly. For every one of them, I installed firefox and made it the default browser and told them they’d need to login to all of their online accounts again. Every single one told me I’d “fixed the computer” and it “works so much better now”.

IntrepidIceIgloo,

That’s the genius of proprietary software business models, also adobe is guilty of this, let people pirate your software so they dominate using your software. Once their skills are built on it once they get to the workforce they won’t even question using a libre alternative. In the end they manage to dominate the market

SimonSaysStuff,

Microsoft has openly encouraged piracy as far back as the 90s. I remember an interview with Gates where he said as much.

This has been part of Microsoft’s business model, especially for Windows and Office for 30 years. They actively encouraged pirating the software to ensure it cemented itself as the defacto standard in homes and offices with a view that one day users would have no choice but pay for it. For over 20 years now this has been part of the bigger desktop-as-a-service goal.

Soon businesses and home users will have no choice but to remotely log into a Windows system that is hosted in a datacentre and provided by Microsoft or one of their partners. Local installs will be a thing of the past. Think Citrix Presentation Server and thin clients which is where this whole idea started a long time ago.

Cannacheques,

Nah that’s just for high security government systems, if you run a small business or something you might not want to fuck around with thin clients unless you’re working directly with big databases and stuff

Omega_Haxors,

One of the zillion reasons why piracy is morally correct and the exact reason I will never pirate. (use open source instead)

pete_the_cat,

Windows is largely successful because there was nothing else good enough for Intel to use back in the late 80s. They struck a partnership and it took off, indoctrinating people into the Windows way of life for decades to come. Most people hate new tech, it means that they have to learn something new that they’d rather not (akin to telling someone to write with the opposite hand than the one they’ve been using their entire lives), even if that thing is simple. Piracy just strengthened that already strong foothold that they had.

people_are_cute,
@people_are_cute@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

In most countries other than those in Western Europe, North America, Japan and China, computers arrived roughly a decade late. In fact PCs never ended up being used in the mainstream till the late 90’s/early '00s in India, a lot of options had matured by then.

SchizoDenji,

Specifically talking about India, people started buying PCs when they first used it in offices or cyber cafes back in early 00s. And windows was the obvious best choice. Apart from that, the GUI was always very convenient for home use cases too.

Cannacheques,

Look man, I think most people would agree that if you want a good gaming experience and you can’t afford a good PC or gaming laptop then you’re either going to the internet cafe or getting a console.

pete_the_cat,

“a lot of options” like what? You have OS X and Linux. OS X only runs on Apple hardware (not including Hackintoshes) and Linux is still seen as less desirable than Windows, because everyone and their grandmother has used Windows at some point in their lives. They’ve probably never even heard of Linux. If they’ve never heard of Linux, they’ve definitely never heard of BSD or Solaris.

By the 2000s Microsoft was the dominant force in computing, Apple was suffering and only regained its foothold in the market after Steve Jobs came back in 97,and it still took years to become popular. Apple was always seen as a premium product so of course it wouldn’t be popular in countries like India. The only way you can usually get Linux on a PC is to build it yourself and install it, or buy it from the very few manufacturers that actually sell a computer with it pre-installed. So what does that leave? Windows.

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