That person really doesn't seem to know what they're talking about (Jews did not originate in Egypt, the UN didn't "shove" anyone to the land, Jewish settlement has been continuous in the region, and after decades of pogroms which culminated in the Holocaust, many who were in the diaspora ended up returning since they didn't feel safe anywhere else, but more importantly, like so many fleeing war and genocide today - were simply not welcomed by the "allies". There is also no such argument that anyone who lives on that land qualifies as Jewish, that's not how Judaism works, there are Israelis and Palestinians of all and no religion), I recommend reading some actual sources for yourself if you want to know more:
And of course I have to defend myself in advance - despite all of the above, I am not denying that the state of Israel is occupying some lands illegally, and is oppressing and ethnically cleansing Palestine.
Both peoples have a rightful claim to parts of that land (and will, eventually, have to share other parts, or all die trying to be the only ones in control), and all deserve to live peacefully side by side on their homelands.
Oh, my criticism wasn't of you, but of the person who replied to you with a load of nonsense. People tend to ignore/simplify/skew the history to fit their agenda (or are too lazy to make the kind of effort you are to understand), so it's good to look at the actual documented history.
As for the Hagia Sophia comparison, I can see where you're coming from, but this is all on a much bigger scale, which by default makes it much more complicated t figure out. But the first step is wanting to know, and you're there, so good job!
I was just reading about how a current Israeli war minister’s son died in combat and it made me wonder that if Israeli’s politicians who make these decisions know their family will be affected by it personally and directly, does that lend towards the suggestion that it is more likely they are making genuinely ethically and...
Furthermore, there’s an unwritten rule the ultra-orthodox parties do not involve themselves or even voice an opinion on military matters
Only this isn't true Deri (of Shas and convicted felon) is in the war cabinet for crying out loud.
You are really naive if you think they don't get a say in everything that goes on, and deliberately ignoring reality if you can't admit that there diversion of funds for their own causes and communities has deprived the rest of the country not only of the security it needed on 7.10, but of health and social and community funding for everyone else, for decades.
The amount of power the ultra orthodox hold is obscene.
Mandatory service doesn't mean they don't get cushy jobs (if they want them) though.
Yair Netanyahu was never going anywhere near the front lines (he was in the Spokesperson's Unit), and nor do many other children-of (not only politicians of course, but they do have a lot of influence), they get jobs at headquarters or some other nice safe place, the military bands/entertainment units are notoriously where many a nepo-baby has got their start..
I don't support the state of Israel, but I hate this bullshit argument so much - where do you think the European Jews came from to Europe, and why?
They came from Israel (the region, not the state, which didn't exist then) which they were expelled from, over generations, again and again, buy actual colonisers. And only wanted too return after centuries of pogroms that culminated in the holocaust, which was perpetrated by actual white supremacists.
Are racism, xenophobia, islamophobia and colourism all happening, and are influenced by white supremacy? Yes. Can Jews ever really be considered white supremacists? Not by any actual white supremacist, so no..
Is the state of Israel and the illegal settlements it supports now occupying some lands that aren't theres and oppressing the Palestinians whos lands those are? Yes.
Should they give those lands back and let their rightful residents live on them in peace (and be willing to share the places that are culturally and historically to both)? Yes.
Is Israel an apartheid state that discriminates against its Arab citizens? Yes.
Do Palestinians deserve freedom? Yes.
Does any of this erase thousands of years of history and mean that Jews, from wherever the fuck they were expelled to in the diaspora don't also have a rightful place on the land or are in any way comparable to actual colonisers who went to foreign lands they nor their ancestors had never set foot on and take them over? Absolutely fucking not.
we were pretty much raised drenched in the same kind of propaganda
"pretty much" being the key words, since the white people who colonised SA had never set foot there before nor had any history or claim to the land, while that absolutely isn't the case for Jewish people returning to their homeland.
I don't completely disagree with you about not everyone being brown, but comparing a photo of modern people to those 2000+ years ago is disingenuous. A lot has happened to the gene pool since, not to mention living conditions and skin protection have improved dramatically.
friendly PSA: not all jews are white (lemmy.world)
Do Israeli Politicians' adult children get conscripted just like the average adult Israeli citizen as part of mandatory service?
I was just reading about how a current Israeli war minister’s son died in combat and it made me wonder that if Israeli’s politicians who make these decisions know their family will be affected by it personally and directly, does that lend towards the suggestion that it is more likely they are making genuinely ethically and...
Lo, His first miracle! (lemmy.world)