This was my take. Considering the bed is wider and deeper, that black truck can literally hold 4x what the other truck carries.
Also from a quick google, I only see a single mini-truck retailer within 500 miles of me and they only sell very-used, with worse exhausts and MPGs than an F150.
Most people don’t need that bigger truck, but if they do that smaller truck won’t cut it.
I think it’s a matter of expertise. I am stuck dealing with people who write Javascript/Typescript like it’s C# because they’re C# senior devs. It’s not world-ending until issues of speed, scale, or other “why we use best practices” raise their ugly heads. Then it is world-ending. I can only help with so many design standards when you still see everything show up in a classes-and-subclasses mindset with hard-to-catch concurrency bugs. I actually caught a developer trying to spin up a child process to wait on a socket response.
So in FinTech, I can imagine it becomes a bigger deal faster.
It doesn’t matter that much to me, I won’t go out of my way to shut down a vegan extremist, I don’t care enough.
I’ve got a few close to me, and they go out of their way to shut down other people close to me. I’ve lived around and been involved in various ways with people in the various meat-related industries. It hurts them, and I care about them, so I care about the issue.
I don’t expect everyone to feel that way. But it’s like the difference between “internet atheists” who are a dime a dozen, and “that guy you actually know that thinks it’s appropriate to treat non-atheists as absolute morons”.
cutting animal product is easier than picking the local farm meat so it’s what I choose
I can respect that. It’s a band-aid solution in my opinion, but if I look at how I tolerate half-ass government actions, I have to honestly accept that a band-aid solution should not be faulted too much.
the most important part is stopping the torture on animals
I think we’d diverge here, but that’s ok. To me, sustainability is more important than animal comfort any time we can’t feasibly have both, so long as a farmed animal is generally better off than the same species in the wild by some agreeable metric - which both cows and chickens generally are (except liberty, but few non-human species put any QoL value on “freedom”).
I hate the mentality that if it’s not perfect we don’t do it, it’s the same for vegans hating on vegetarian.
1000% percent. Vegans are not “going to win” and have a kumbaya utopia (dystopia) where people across the world are forbidden to eat animals and harshly punished when they try. And they’re sure not going to get a world where the masses choose veganism. But there’s a LOT of even ranchers and hunters of all people who would stand at their side for better regulations on humane treatment.
As a theist, I agree. Pascal’s Wager is a terrible argument for God. It doesn’t even address the variety of religions that contradict Christianity with contradicting moral imperatives. It only works if the outcomes are “My Variant of Christian God Exists” or “No God Exists”.
I’m not Godwinizing this. The analogy is apt. Not because Veganism is as bad as the White Supremacy movement, but because militant veganism is culturally near-identical with regards to levels of organization, cohesion, and belittling and exclusion of the opposing majority.
Vegans are not special. It’s like if I had the same nationality as someone, do you really need to call out someone from the US that shit on European (assuming you are from the US) ?
No, vegans aren’t special. Thank you. And yes, I consider it my responsibility to call out the American anti-Mexican rhetoric that’s been rekindled because if I don’t, I am complicit. I am struggling not to tangent into at least 20 other incidents between old racial slurs and attacks insults about homosexuality where I’ve had to stand up against “my class”, but the moment I hadn’t done so, then I’m as bad as them.
this article that list a few vegans that are against militant
Unfortunately, this article supports my point in a way I don’t know you intended. This is an article discussing how militant vegans (including the creators of Dominion) are against the tactic of insulting non-vegans directly in their goal of getting everyone to stop eating meat. Further, this clearly rebuts your earlier claim that militant veganism isn’t “a community”.
Remember, if you’re activists against someone’s behavior, you’re attacking that behavior. You need to be damn sure the behavior you’re attacking is objectively wrong. Good-cop Bad-copping it doesn’t change that.
And I never wanted to say most vegans agree with extremists. Theses assholes are ruining veganism image
Then, do the world a favor, and call them out. It probably doesn’t get veganism across the line of reasonableness (stopping pushing for others to be vegan is where that happens) but it gives you a bit more of an ethical foundation.
Without them people would hear vegan and think about nature, saving animals, saving the evironnement
I hate that most vegans I meet won’t agree with me on animal protections in farms because my goals still involve people eating them (EDIT: them=animals. Stupid English language unclear pronouns). I consider my home state’s new free range chicken law a massive win because it doesn’t play with the meaning of “free range” like many big companies do, but most vegans consider it “just another step in normalizing humans eating animals”. You’ve heard the statement “making perfect the enemy of good”, right? Well, there’s a step worse, which is making “my personal preference the enemy of perfect”.
Let me make this clear. We exist in a world where we can scaleably give farm animals a better quality of life than they’d get in the wild with a better environmental impact than not eating them, but it requires regulations that vegans are often unwilling to openly support because it’s not what they want.
But right now they only think about 30 years old Karen screaming at them for no reason calling people murderer and so on.
Agreed. Memes become that because they’re often true. “How do you know someone is a vegan?” EVERYONE has experienced that particular little joke dozens of times if not more. I used to have a coworker who aggressively preached veganism at me, as he gained a ton of weight and his health degraded. This is not me saying that vegans can’t be healthy, but he was definitely doing veganism a disservice.
True, actions speak. So I do what I can. You probably don’t but that’s an assumption I admit
And this right here is the problem. But you know that and I’m not sure you care.
You’ve got a lot of assumptions, but that’s OK
I’m not the one judging the supermajority of people as “unworthy” and “uneducated”. I make very few assumptions, and even fewer judgements. Look in the mirror.
Even if they’re anecdotal. Like people don’t need to be educated. I disagree.
People don’t need to be propagandized. I’m all about education. I encourage education. For most problems, education is the way out. Listening to someone take their morals and convince you of some hokey pseudo-scientific claim of fact is not education.
As I reinstate, it’s simply anti vegan rhetoric that you’re so on board with
Would you listen to yourself? If someone says something that doesn’t match this clearly fictional view about a meatless-utopia is “rhetoric”. Like I’m reading some “how to screw with perfect people, by Mr. Satan” pamphlets? How about this counter. The vegan side simply doesn’t hold water. Period. That’s it. My so-called rhetoric is just “calling bullshit”.
For clarity, I don’t think you’re an idiot or uneducated, just misguided and have been misinformed for so long, your very core is against the idea, and you’re smart enough to justify why you feel like that.
Why? Because I disagree with vegans? All I see is trollish behavior and downvotes from people who demonstrably show lack of knowledge. When I grew up, my friends were becoming environmental engineers and farmers, and my family struggles have made me acutely aware of the complex nutritional questions that exist. I’m “misinformed” because I’ve been surrounded by experts in the various fields. But I suppose you would tell a PhD in nutrition that they’re misinformed on the health side if they don’t agree with you, and would tell a PhD in Environmental Engineering the same. I bet you would tell a small-time farmer that they’re misinformed about how their negative-margin milk cow (since the strike price of milk is down) is still necessary because it’s the only way their plant crops are profitable.
We’re alllll just misinformed. But the vegans, oh boy, just like the Christians, those vegans know the right of it. And they’ll save my soul if I just let them.
At the end of the day, you are against veganism
Correction. I’m against preachy, militant, veganism. More specifically, I’m against all proselytization, but that from veganism is the worst I’ve seen of late. I have vegans in my family, and I have no problem with them.
but I do hope one day people like yourself can see the fight against oppression doesn’t stop at humans
I already don’t. While you’re fighting to get everyone to stop eating meat, I do my part to fight against Big Ag (meat and plant). I support free range laws that are actually animals getting to live their best lives. I’m against anti-natalism (like PETA and anti-farm initiatives) because that is oppression, too. I fight against preachy vegans because they are oppressing animals in their own way.
It’s millions of random people that have nothing to do with each other and thus don’t see the loud minority or feel the need to correct them
So vegans are “special”? Can you think of other examples of groups of millions of people where there’s no such expectation on their members to call out bad behavior by their fringe? I’m white; skin color is not a community, but I would still be complacent if I didn’t stand against white supremacists. And in terms of randomness and “community” size, there’s more white people than vegans.
they do not represent the many 60 yo Asians that just don’t eat meat.
“Just don’t eat meat” isn’t veganism. Veganism is “just WON’T eat meat… and just WON’T eat other animal products”.
More importantly, look at the context. All he did was point out that vegans NEVER call down militant veganism. If he’s wrong, and I’m wrong, stop saying “there’s no responsibility” and show me just a few sites by “Western hip vegans who tweet” or whatever the hell subset of veganism we’re going to run with, where they are calling out militant vegans on their bullshit. I’ll wait, but I won’t hold my breath.
Let me give my counterpoint. What you’re really trying to say is that vegans have no responsibility to call down militant veganism because most vegans think there’s nothing wrong with it.
You’re fine to believe all that, it just comes across as though you’re assuming everyone who eats meat has done the due diligence in finding out what happens behind closed doors
Not really. Actions speak. People who are choosing to eat meat are choosing to do so for some reason. If vegan food is really better than meat in every possible way, nobody would choose to eat meat for any reason.
Someone doesn’t need to be as educated on the meat/vegetable discussion as I am to make those decisions. Obviously I feel the same way about most vegans as you do about meat eaters. I’ve literally had unprepared vegans tell me that it’s better to let overpopulation wrack an area than to hunt and eat deer.
That’s not the case, and it’s too obvious you’re wrapped up in your own views to ever change based on what one guy tells you on the Internet
There comes a point where one is educated enough on an issue that it’s not easy to get them to flip-flop in the opposite direction of all the evidence and their conclusions. That is not the same as closedmindedness or zeal. But more importantly, the “ecology, health, ethics” gishgallop often used in vegan debate is ineffective at doing anything but guilt someone too ignorant to see it happening (which is the whole point I was making tot hat person, who was shifting the topic). Or did you mention ignorance above because it’s about converting those who don’t know better?
Which is OK, people who care are putting in the work, and the world will be better for it.
With all due respect, it’s bad faith to accuse everyone with the opposite view as yours of being uneducated. I have discovered myself to be more educated and prepared than most militant vegans, put in more work, and make the world a better place than they do. The reason is that ultimately, veganism stems from a singular ethical position… not unlike the “single issue voters” so common in modern Democracy. If all you’re seeing is “right and wrong”, you can convince yourself on every other issue. I like to also point out how many good-faith religious folks are convinced homosexuality is harmful because they think it is immoral. Unfortunately, that’s where I see vegans on these topics.
I hope you find compassion one day, because I’m certainly not telling you why you should be.
I think you are exemplifying this remark. You are so zealously and irrationally convinced of this “one and only right morality” that any human who would eat meat has no compassion. Ironically, I used to (and occasionally still do) feel the same way about vegans, since the only workable veganism involved agricultural anti-natalism. You note how above I said I’m more educated on topics than most vegans? The ones I’m not “more educated than” are the real problem here. They’re the ones that, eventually, will admit that their vision of utopia involves preventing farm animals from being born as a better outcome than those animals living a better-than-nature life that happens to end on a dinner plate. I cannot get over the fact that position is the one more lacking of compassion.
So I guess this is the part where I hope YOU find the compassion one day to overcome your squeamishness and do your part to hunt a deer, keep some chickens, or just go to a local butcher to help the entire ecosystem.
No, I’m a case study of “I actually grew up in a farming community, had enough vegan friends, and came up with my own conclusions” See, I see zealous vegans the same way I see dirty cops or post-1/6 Trump fans. Best-case is deluded, worst case is bad-faith.
One common trend is how much vegans will double- and triple-down on the idea that because they feel veganism is morally superior, it’s actually magically better in every other way, from health to the environment. When you discuss with someone whose “spoke” arguments are based upon what they consider a moral imperative, the truth doesn’t matter.
There’s something wrong with the health/environment/morals tripod of veganism. Everything that is real has pros and cons, and everything that doesn’t have cons is a fiction or exaggeration. The way these moral vegans come out swinging, their description of the vegan reality is indefensible. Eating vegetables is alleged to be tastier, better for the environment, healthier, easier, cheaper, faster, more ethical. Then come the contradictions… people, even experts, who eat meat as part of their healthy diet, farmers that keep livestock (despite having to PAY the government more in taxes, not getting subsidies) because it’s more sustainable for them. The list goes on, until you’re picking the battles based on the things the other side won’t immediately see as willful ignorance.
There’s no element of physical addiction to meat-eating. The supermajority of humans eat animal products because it is the right choice for them, for their health, based upon their morals, and in many cases for their sustainability.
So sorry if “knowing what I’m fucking talking about” is antivegan rhetoric. Have a nice day, I don’t expect a reply.
If you wanted to be honest, it would be “look, I know it’s going to fuck up your ecosystem and local sustainability, but animal lives are important to me” or “look, I know it’s harder to eat healthy and requires more research and supplements, but we can figure it out”. Those are positions I’d respect, if disagree with (because my ethical position, a fairly well-established one, considers eating meat to be perfectly fine)