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irmoz, to memes in If you're feeling left out it's probably because you defend billionaires who would mince you into fertilizer

I feel like you’re missing the point on purpose.

The workers do the work, yet the owner is the one who gets the money.

Why?

Of course the wealthiest countries have free markets. Why would that be a coincidence? It’s exactly the mechanism I described, but on a global stage. Wealthy people exploit the poorer to become wealthier. Wealthy countries exploit poorer countries to become even wealthier.

This is a cycle that will only end with one person becoming the owner of everything, or revolution to end it.

irmoz, to memes in If you only criticize civilian casualties when Palestine resists, then your concern isn't civilian casualties. Your concern is Palestine resisting massacre.

Do you somehow not realise that is exactly the point being made?

irmoz, to memes in If you only criticize civilian casualties when Palestine resists, then your concern isn't civilian casualties. Your concern is Palestine resisting massacre.

Uh, what?

irmoz, to memes in Need to make more money 😩

Easy to say

irmoz, to memes in Need to make more money 😩

That’s not greed.

irmoz, (edited ) to memes in If you're feeling left out it's probably because you defend billionaires who would mince you into fertilizer

The workers aren’t able to provide any of the equipment or capital for the business.

Aw, golly gee, I sure do wonder why they aren’t able to do this.

Because our system is set up that way!! Capitalism!

Our system is set up to enrich owners at the expense of workers. Simple as that.

irmoz, (edited ) to memes in If you're feeling left out it's probably because you defend billionaires who would mince you into fertilizer

It’s risky to capture a slave. Are risks always entitled to rewards?

The profit generated by the workers belongs to the workers. They made it. The owner didn’t. They needed the workers to make it. The owners aren’t “providing” the resources - they’re gatekeeping them, so that usage only happens under the condition that it benefits the owner.

Also, to be quite honest, it’s even unfair to the owner. They shouldn’t have to risk it alone. It should be a joint venture from the start. These risks should be undertaken together, with all as co-owners.

People are entitled their basic needs on the basis of being human. And all should have social ownership of the economy in general, with no individual or group having sole ownership and thus being the only ones to profit from it.

irmoz, to memes in If you're feeling left out it's probably because you defend billionaires who would mince you into fertilizer

I never mentioned personal property. I’m talking about private property.

irmoz, to memes in If you're feeling left out it's probably because you defend billionaires who would mince you into fertilizer

So, surplus value doesn’t exist, simply because some capitalists can… fail to extract it?

Listen buddy, a few people being bad at their job doesn’t mean the job doesn’t exist.

I don’t think you know what surplus value is. It’s the portion of the value that you make for the business that doesn’t go to you, but to the owner.

Do you also notice that I said “without going broke” and your example includes going broke?

irmoz, to memes in If you're feeling left out it's probably because you defend billionaires who would mince you into fertilizer

So, freedom to exploit?

irmoz, (edited ) to memes in If you're feeling left out it's probably because you defend billionaires who would mince you into fertilizer

It’s fucking bonkers that you think the definition of “things” is what’s at issue here.

I’m not disputing that lmao. But upholding private property law is not running the market. That would be, like i said, a planned economy.

irmoz, (edited ) to memes in If you're feeling left out it's probably because you defend billionaires who would mince you into fertilizer

Requiring a state to protect private property isn’t “the state running things”. Even right-libertarians concede the necessity of state to uphold private property laws. “The state running shit” would be like… a planned economy.

Don’t equivocate the two, yeah?

irmoz, to memes in If you're feeling left out it's probably because you defend billionaires who would mince you into fertilizer

Uh, no shit. Economic freedom means not being destitute. Of course that makes you happier than not. What are you trying to prove, here? Do you think economic freedom is synonymous with capitalism, or only possible through it?

irmoz, to memes in If you're feeling left out it's probably because you defend billionaires who would mince you into fertilizer

Hold up, I thought we were talking about the state running things?

Why?

Of course everything has a central authority; this includes unions, churches, and corporations.

What do you mean, “of course”?

Though, we certainly don’t need the state for a black market to run its business.

If there weren’t a state, it would just be a “market”, not a black market. And as I said, black markets are controlled by the most wealthy and powerful in that market. They are the de facto state of the black market.

However, I guess it wouldn’t really be a black market if there wasn’t a state to declare things illegal 🤔.

Exactly, yes.

I absolutely agree with your second half though. The black market is a perfect capitalist example, and I believe it is an inevitable response to state authoritarianism

If you consider regulation authoritarian, sure. Or if you’re referring to the outlawing of drugs, I somewhat agree. Weapons trading is grey at best, though.

irmoz, to memes in If you're feeling left out it's probably because you defend billionaires who would mince you into fertilizer

Just because you don’t agree doesn’t make it any less true. How do you refute it? It’s a basic mathematical truth. It’s literally impossible for a capitalist to pay you the value you brought them, without them going broke.

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