I love conflicted podcast. Condensed: fuck organizers of these attacks (likely iran) just before historic peace treaties in the region. They knew fully well what would the response be.
@matcha_addict
The issue here is similar to most of the land contest issues in the world: what historical period you use to determine land ownership. As an example: most of the current territory of Russia was once occupied by Mongolian tribes under the leadership of Chenghis Khan. So if that's the frame of reference you use, Mongolia has legitimate rights to wage war to reclaim their land.
I have a solution for you: why shouldn’t we live with Israelis in peace? Why can’t we have a Democratic state for all? Israel loses this “historical land” battle, but even if they didn’t, does that justify massacre? Palestinians have always advocated a state for all, but Israel never agrees.
@matcha_addict I agree with you. Historically Jews and Arabs that occupied this land are the same people with different religious beliefs. They are all Semites. They should be able to live together.
Globally speaking, the borders of counties are just arbitrarily drawn lines on the map. Lines, drawn by individual people who decided for the masses where they can and cannot have a home.
I believe, we as humans, should abolish borders of any kind.
@matcha_addict But I'm afraid this idea has no traction. It's only going to be possible if we as humanity realize that we are not alone in the universe and another species threatens us from outer space. I don't know any other way that we can all unite as earthlings and realize the fallacy of carving up the world into spheres of influence for a few, mostly militaristic men.
I agree with the comic. I do however disagree with the title. I think the Hamas’ attack shouldn’t to be called “resistance”, just as Israel’s response shouldn’t be called “self defense”.
I agree with you that it needs to be clarified further. While I think it is still “resistance” in the sense that it was done with the intention to resist occupation and all what Israel does, I do agree that civilians died that didn’t need to, and it did not lead to positive results.
When you live your whole life in a concentration camp and get bombed almost daily, you may lose some rationality and start justifying more things in the name or resistance. Ultimately I blame Israel for putting them in this situation, and putting civilians so close to their border.
In the end, my whole point is that Hamas attack must not justify a response from Israel. It should lead us to pull back instead.
Lemmy is full of authoritarian xenophobes (read: white kids from wealthy backgrounds) who support the brutalization of the Palestinian people and open air prison they’re forced into. That’s why you never heard a peep from them about the murders of innocent Palestinians that have been nonstop since the establishment of the Apartheid state of Israel. You won’t find much support here among these right wing war mongers.
crimes. why the fuck are they maiming non-violent protesters. those people have a right to protest being blockaded like rats in a concentration camp. the
1155 upvotes, 342 downvotes. This can be used to estimate how many percentage of true fascists exist across federated instances. These are majorly western predditors. Lemmy seems to be a truer representation of internet in proportion to global population, compared to 80% Anglos that use preddit.
Casualties? Hamas wanted to kill as many citizens of Israel as possible, no matter of what nationality they were. Even tourists were killed. Casualties are about bad luck, but Hamas victims were murdered because of evil intention. They cannot be compared to Palestinian casualties in any way.
While I agree with you about Hamas, the fact you don’t apply the same logic to the IDF is very telling. A country that believes a whole group of people are less than human and wants them eradicated absolutely intends every casualty it inflicts.
Israeli snipers murder innocent children, journalists and medical staff because of evil intentions.
Israeli bombs dropped on one of the densest populated areas which are bound to inflict civilian casualties are doing their intended evil.
The choice to turn off the electricity even though it will guarantee deaths in hospitals is not bad luck and is evil.
Israel is evil.
In fact if we’re going by civilian casualties Israel is like 36x more evil.
Hamas wanted to kill as many citizens of Israel as possible
Source?
This is false. Hamas is not free of criticism, they did commit needless killing of civilians, but their main target remains the IDF. This is contrasted with Israel, whose target is civilians.
Even the music festival was located right next to the Re’im base. The festival itself had Israeli gunned men and tanks. Again, I do not condemn the civilians needlessly killed by some Hamas members, but the operation’s target was the military.
I think I’m going to take an extended break from Lemmy. People are treating a 70+ year political quagmire like a football match, where they pick a side and then morally grandstand about how awful the other side is. Fuck all of you.
Unfortunately, those that don’t fall under what you’re describing simply don’t comment because they know it’s a massive, nuanced issue, so all you’re seeing are the loudest, least nuanced voices
I hope more of you fake nuanced people go back to Reddit.
“bro please bro it’s complicated bro you can’t oppose apartheid bro have you not considered it’s complicated bro? Please bro you have to maintain status quo”
On Lemmy, you firstly see the message before the messenger. That is something that makes it magical, it clears your self-history and allow you to have a free mind on ideas presented.
Each time people try to justify Hamas as Palestine resisting massacre when they go on a killing spree on an international music festival makes me care less. People who criticize Israel will also criticize Hamas killings, and the more you work to associate Hamas to Palestinians and the more that Palestinians themselves associate, support, and congratulate these terrorists, the more that we as third parties will stop caring and pull back to let you kill yourselves for your imaginary blood beliefs.
Didn’t you read what he wrote? He, acting as our representative, has already made it clear that we, all third parties, don’t care and just want to watch the world burn. Get in line!
What has your hesitant caring (if even true) achieved before? Is there anything lost that we should worry about?
We actually much rather you take a step back and leave us. Please start by telling your governments to gtfo of Middle east and stop all intervention. We don’t want you.
I doubt there’s any. There’s not a good definition of a “political meme” that wouldn’t have many people disagreeing whether certain memes are political or not, hence breeding power trip mods and bias. Most likely, it’ll just be allowing the political memes that agree with mods opinions, or are status quo to the mods, and hence not seemingly “political” even if it is.
But if you find one, please comment it here. I’d love to see it.
My favorite was when Bernie Sanders was called antisemitic for criticizing Israel. His response was something along the lines of “It isn’t antisemitic to criticize a right-wing government in Israel.” It must’ve taken all the patience in the world to not add “you fucking toolbags”.
Fascists get away with conflating Judaism and Zionism because they don’t teach that Zionism has absolutely nothing to do with Judaism, and actually goes against a lot of their values. It’s actually been around for quite awhile; you know the crusades, when they went around killing a bunch of civilians to set up settlements? Those were Christian Zionists.
That’s why it’s anti-semitic to conflate the two. One is a religion and the other is a fascist genocidal colonialist movement. So next time you see some german lady shouting down a holocaust survivor for calling out Israeli apartheid (yes, this literally happened, and it was the Jewish guy who got punished) you’ll see it for what it is. It’s not complicated, it’s a clear cut case of modern day nazism.
Amen, who was it who said that the way to find out what group is getting away with too much bullshit is to look at what group you’re not allowed to criticize in any Circle?
The only one I can think of is the idea that the Jews made up the Holocaust to guilt the West into giving up Israel… Which is indeed antisemetic, and asburd
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