krellor

@krellor@kbin.social

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What is the deal with Palestine and Hamas?

For mental health reasons, I had taken myself out of most political topics. But lately there seems to be a surge of talk about Palestine and Hamas (forgive me if I spelled this wrong). I do know it’s something to do with land rights, but it also seems to be so much more at the same time. I’m not trying to start any fights. I...

krellor,

I hate to wade in but I see a lot of misinformation being posted.

The reality is both Israel and Palestinians are victims; victims of each other, their neighbors, and the world around them. You can make one side look better or worse depending on when you start the clock on the discussion.

When Israel was formed in 1948 there wasn't a Palestinian state, but rather a collection of towns with various ethnic populations including Jewish and Muslims peoples. The area was controlled by Britain in the time before WW2 under a mandate from the league of nations, the precursor to the UN.

In 1948 the UN set a border for Jewish and Palestinian states in the territory that is today known as Israel, Gaza, and the West Bank. The Jewish peoples, some who could trace their ancestry in the area to biblical times, and others who settled the area as either a Zionist effort or fleeing the Holocaust, accepted the borders which were much smaller than today's Israel, because it meant they would finally have their own state and land.

The Arabs didn't accept the border for a variety of reasons, and the armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and Saudi Arabia attacked the fledgling Jewish state.

Notably, the Palestinians didn't attack. Though there were tensions between the Jewish peoples and the Palestinians who felt the encroachment of Jewish settlers from Europe, the Palestinian cause was really created and coopted by their Muslim neighbors.

During the war Israel expanded their borders, 700,000 Palestinians were displaced while some were massacred. Some Palestinians fled the war, some were forced out, some left at the call of their Arab neighbors, and some left in fear of being massacred. The armistice that ended the war left Israel larger, Jordan in control of the West Bank, and Egypt in control of Gaza. Note, this was before the West began to provide military aid to Israel.

So the Israel narrative or myth is that they have the pure moral high ground where they win a war for the right to exist. The Palestinian narrative and myth is that they were all violently dispossessed by the Jews and are pure victims. To this day, children born in Palestinian refuge camps are taught about the village they are "from" which often doesn't exist and their family does 70 years ago. Though many were not forced out during the war, the narrative is they were all forced to leave by the Jewish army.

So you have these competing ideas passed down on both sides that are in conflict, and neither one quite right.

When you look at how Palestinians have been treated by their Arab neighbors you see how they have been abused further. For example, Jordan and Egypt could have made the West Bank and Gaza independent Palestinian states, but they didn't. They continued to occupy them, and ultimately lose control after going to war with Israel again in the six day war in 1967, which set the stage for many of the problems today.

Over the years these narratives in conflict have bred real world violence in a tit for tat escalation that spans decades. Israel continues its narrative that it is in a war for its right to exist, which is true, but also doesn't accept responsibility for worsening the situation at times over the years and human rights abuses such as the 24 documented displacements.

Palestinians continue to define themselves as a dispossessed people, teaching their children that they need to reclaim what they lost, while being used by their surrounding Arab religious state neighbors as a proxy battleground against Israel. Palestinians have refused offers to develop permanent housing for fear of would weaken their claim to being refugees, and really live in entrenched slums that they call refuge camps.

The recent events were caused by Hamas, fearing the normalization of Israel relationships and the fading of the Palestinians cause to retake lost land, attacking Israel. Then of course, you have Israels grossly disproportionate response and the horrors therein.

So really the situation is quite a mess, and made worse by people ignorant of the history rushing to support one side or the other. In reality, both sides are prisoners of their own history, and unlikely to set themselves free anytime soon.

If you want a short podcast that goes over this in more detail, I recommend "The Daily" podcast titled 1948, which was released this past November 3rd and interviews the NYT Israel correspondent from 1970.

Let me know if you have any follow up questions.

For everyone else who is blindly on one side or the other waiting to bait me into a never ending argument by selectively framing the situation: no thanks, I have a weekend to enjoy.

Have a great day!

krellor,

Thank you! I wanted to touch on some additional points like those, but I am in my phone and already was hitting the character limit, so I'm glad you mentioned them.

Enjoy your weekend!

krellor,

Not the person you asked, but I grew up in a rural blue collar area. Construction beats up your body, and even with the right PPE you are at high risk of injury from accident or simple repetitive stress injuries. The work is often exposed to the elements, on stressful timetables, with pressure to work long hours.

Some of the trades can be better, but many have the same issues I listed above. Lots of people in trades or construction feel 60 at 40 from beating their body up.

"When an eight-year-old tells you that she doesn’t want to die, it’s hard not to feel helpless:" toll of Israel-Palestine crisis on children ‘beyond devastating’, UN says (news.un.org)

"Threats go beyond the bombs and mortars”, UNICEF’s James Elder stressed. Infant deaths due to dehydration are “a growing threat” in the enclave as Gaza’s water production is at five per cent of the required volume due to non-functioning desalination plants which are either damaged or lack fuel....

krellor,

Dude, no matter how you feel about the actions of Hamas and other violent groups, empathy for the children impacted by war and violence is a sign of basic humanity. Telling children to cry you a river is just sick.

krellor,

I don't think there is a technological silver bullet, but technology might enable you to overcome your concerns. Reading other answers and your comments, one concern seems to be the inability to influence mods once they are in their post. That seems easy enough to address through community voting implemented and enforced by the software.

What your really need to do is sit down and game out the situations and actions you need, and that becomes the basis for your functional software spec.

The bigger issue is who runs the software and on what hardware? Implementing safeguards to keep server admins in line with the community would be much more difficult than mods.

krellor,

I would recommend people read the IAB ad blocker detection guide for Europe which provides a good summary of what is possible. It lays out the that depending on how the detection is done it might be defensible to rely on ToS, and to remove all risk, implement a consent banner, wall, or both.

Which is to say, even if it was ruled that YouTube can't rely on ToS, which I don't think is a sure thing, they would just have a consent wall like for cookies.

krellor, (edited )

Maybe it depends on the domain, but I think it is perfectly reasonable both to ask or produce graphs to show data trends, qualitative behavior, relative rates, etc. I mean, looking at one chart and acting like you know better than the analyst might be a duck move but wanting the chart isn't.

Imagine if scientific papers didn't use plots to visualize data?

krellor,

Proof by intimidation:

  • is left as an exercise for the reader.
  • can be trivially shown.
  • as shown in many introductory texts.
krellor,

I agree it is people looking for reasons to criticize. However, I do think VPN or anything that modifies your route tables should be subjected to more scrutiny than other app features due to potential for abuse. I wish browsers wouldn't bundle them at all, or install them as part of their base.

This fast food order kiosk accepts cash (mander.xyz)

All the McD*nalds in my area have been upgraded with order kiosks. Regardless of all the controversy around self-checkout, and minimum wage, and automation taking our jobs, I personally love them. I can take my sweet time composing my order, I can see the full selection (such as it is), I can see pictures and prices clearly...

krellor,

Yeah, the Costco food kiosks are the gold standard. One screen with all items, big buttons, responsive, and obvious checkout process. I can literally order for the family in under thirty seconds with the receipt in hand. It's like magic.

krellor,

One thing I'll throw in to help with dependencies is that if you add a games installer as a non-steam game, set proton experimental compatibly, and when you run it will install all the dependencies you need.

Then, after install, edit the non-steam game you created to point the path to the game executable. You can't remove the game from steam for the installer and add a second one for the game because adding a non-steam game creates a steam managed folder that holds dependencies that will be deleted when you remove it. This you need to edit the game entry for the installer to point to the game executable inside that steam created folder.

Doing this I installed battle net, and then changed the path for the exec to the battle net launcher, and was able to play Blizzard games. For me I did it to get diablo 2 resurrected running for my kids on their steam decks, but I was super impressed by the proton compatibility layer.

krellor,

When you added them as non-steam games did you manually set the compatibility to proton experimental?

I've only used the original game installers getting things going for my kids, so it's possible something in the way the files are repacked is different than what proton is used to.

Why is Linux so frustrating for some people?

Don’t get me wrong. I love Linux and FOSS. I have been using and installing distros on my own since I was 12. Now that I’m working in tech-related positions, after the Reddit migration happened, etc. I recovered my interest in all the Linux environment. I use Ubuntu as my main operating system in my Desktop, but I always end...

krellor,

For most people computers are just the same as cars. People want a car that will drive them from place to place, are easy to refuel, easy to operate, and can be taken to an expert for anything difficult or that requires specialized knowledge. Same for computers. Most people want a computer to navigate the web, install the apps they are used to and that their friends use, is easy to operate, and can be taken to an expert for any involved work.

Even the friendliest of Linux distro don't check all those boxes. You cant get ready support from a repair shop, many of the apps are different or function differently, and it doesn't receive all the same love and attention from major third party developers as Windows does.

Most people could learn to use Linux; it's not that hard. Most people could learn to change their own oil. But for most people, it's not worth it. For most people it's not the journey, it's the destination and cars and computers are just tools to get there.

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