Towing capacity, payload weight, carrying 3 more people, bed width, drivetrain? I think many trucks are way too big, and it’s silly to own a big work truck if you just use it to go to the grocery store but it’s really about so much more than bed size.
This was my take. Considering the bed is wider and deeper, that black truck can literally hold 4x what the other truck carries.
Also from a quick google, I only see a single mini-truck retailer within 500 miles of me and they only sell very-used, with worse exhausts and MPGs than an F150.
Most people don’t need that bigger truck, but if they do that smaller truck won’t cut it.
Please show us a kei truck with less fuel economy then any truck sold in the US in the last lets say 15 years. Hell you can even remove the exhaust altogether and you will be lucky to get a truck double the fuel need of any of those “mini-trucks” as you call them.
A quick google suggests “real world” use of modern microtrucks is 28ish mpg without heavily modding it or super-efficient variants. Older Kei trucks are lower. Actually, much MUCH lower according to minitrucktalk. 22-23.
I know someone with a 2021 Silverado Hybrid holding at 29mpg. And they regularly lug full loads that would take four trips from a Kei truck. Admittedly the “hybrid” part stops mattering with full loads, but I guarantee Kei isn’t going to have great MPG numbers carrying 1000lbs of cargo.
Minitruck owners (sometimes rightly) lean on a soapbox where they and those around them rarely lug any cargo. IMO, might as well drive a Prius at that point but whatever. But ya gotta stop the circlejerk enough to acknowledge that someone who does regularly carry a full cab worth of stuff is in a better position with a normal truck.
Flip-side, very few people need a truck. And those that don’t need a truck also don’t need a kei truck.
Thanks for providing some info, sadly the 29mpg on the hybrid is not the norm or good (had to convert it to 8.1l/100kms like a normal person) it looks like your buddy is doing some great mileage compared to say the info from https://www.fuelly.com/car/chevrolet/silverado_1500/2011?engineconfig_id=&bodytype_id=&submodel_id=62. As for the fuel use of a kei truck, I have only seen those sort of numbers on high speed highway driving as they are just not geared for it. I would love to be able to by a smaller truck, or even a new version of an older one. The issue is we are not given many options other then a kei truck designed for the urban focused Japanese market or a stupid massive van with a 4 foot bed.
Thanks for providing some info, sadly the 29mpg on the hybrid is not the norm or good
For a load-bearing vehicle it absolutely is. And I showed that it compared favorably to these minitrucks. This whole thread is about comparing trucks to trucks. If you need to carry shit, you are hurting the environment if you buy a mini-truck over a Silverado or F150.
it looks like your buddy is doing some great mileage compared to say the info from
Well, 10 years goes a long way. You literally picked a 2011 Silverado. Perhaps look at 2023 numbers on the same site?
As for Kei, as I said it’s hard to get a fair chance when the only places nearby sell heavily-used older vehicles. Gas mileage has largely skyrocketed of late because Auto manufacturers are getting scared.
But ultimately, If you have any truck and don’t need its carrying ability, you’re an asshole. I think the case of a japanese mini-truck being the “best choice” is ultimately too rare to hold your breath for.
A step further, the REAL sad truth is that most minitrucks aren’t even legal in the US without being modified to a max speed of 25mph because they don’t meet safety and emission standards for road vehicles. That’s why so many around here are old. Before 1998, they’re grandfathered in and people in other countries that don’t grandfather old vehicles are offloading them.
Do we really want to be cheering on unsafe high-emission vehicles as the “cure” to the F150?
For a load-bearing vehicle it absolutely is. And I showed that it compared favorably to these minitrucks. This whole thread is about comparing trucks to trucks. If you need to carry shit, you are hurting the environment if you buy a mini-truck over a Silverado or F150.
It does not show that, it showed almost nothing other then your one truck gets middling gas mileage and then you said people on a minitruck forum say they don’t haul stuff. There was as far as I can see no comparison of load to load capacity, avg fuel economy or anything other then you like your buddies 2021 silverado.
Well, 10 years goes a long way. You literally picked a 2011 Silverado. Perhaps look at 2023 numbers on the same site?
your link lists MPG of 21.82 for 2023, that is almost 1/3 worse then your friend.
As for Kei, as I said it’s hard to get a fair chance when the only places nearby sell heavily-used older vehicles. Gas mileage has largely skyrocketed of late because Auto manufacturers are getting scared.
But ultimately, If you have any truck and don’t need its carrying ability, you’re an asshole. I think the case of a japanese mini-truck being the “best choice” is ultimately too rare to hold your breath for.
A step further, the REAL sad truth is that most minitrucks aren’t even legal in the US without being modified to a max speed of 25mph because they don’t meet safety and emission standards for road vehicles. That’s why so many around here are old. Before 1998, they’re grandfathered in and people in other countries that don’t grandfather old vehicles are offloading them.
Do we really want to be cheering on unsafe high-emission vehicles as the “cure” to the F150?
The legal issues are a issue not because these are unsafe or high-emission (they are not). They are a major issue because the auto industry has fed you that tripe and like a lot of US consumers you bought it. These are not good on gas, they have convinced people that 29mpg in a hybrid that costs as much as a house is good.
I like many other people do have the occasional need for a truck, and in no world would you catch me in anything made in north America for the last 20 years. Like many other people I had to buy a very old truck (carberated v8 that gets 14ish mpg btw) and it sits by my barn until it is needed. The “cure” to the f150 is just the option to buy a old f150 or any other truck not made into a 5 seat van like monstrosity. I would love to have the option to buy a new truck that was small, be it a kei or a domestic. But I don’t.
your link lists MPG of 21.82 for 2023, that is almost 1/3 worse then your friend.
That is for a non-Hybrid Silverado, and my friend has a hybrid. Seems to make sense.
The legal issues are a issue not because these are unsafe or high-emission (they are not). They are a major issue because the auto industry has fed you that tripe and like a lot of US consumers you bought it.
That is sorta tinfoil. There is a process in most states to get ANY vehicle street-legal. But Kei trucks don’t just need safety features retrofitted, apparently they lack a sufficient roll cage to pass inspections for valid safety concerns. Even Kei fans can’t agree on whether it’s more or less safe in a crash than a motorcycle.
As for emissions, in a lot of states you just have to pass standard EPA emissions guidelines like any other vehicle. Apparently that’s very difficult for a Kei truck to do. Perhaps it uses a gallon or two less per hundred miles, but its emissions are worse.
Lots of Kei truck fans out there bitch about how the EPA should have better things to do than care about fehicle emissions, but I’d think a “fuck cars” community would care about vehicle emissions.
These are not good on gas, they have convinced people that 29mpg in a hybrid that costs as much as a house is good.
So your viewpoint is entirely about money. Just be straight with it.
and in no world would you catch me in anything made in north America for the last 20 years. Like many other people I had to buy a very old truck (carberated v8 that gets 14ish mpg btw) and it sits by my barn until it is needed.
Why is that? Newer vehicles tend to be safer in collisions and better on emissions than the equivalent older vehicle.
The “cure” to the f150 is just the option to buy a old f150
Circa 2000 F150s rate as low as 10-11MPG. New F150s rate as high as 25MPG. And new F150s are a lot safer to drive. I’ll ask again, is this entire rant of yours just about money? Because maybe I’m the wrong person to respond to if you’re just cheap. I get it, I’d rather take a bus myself than have a car payment.
In addition to the payload. Payload goes in the back! Fill it with stones then put five men in it to shovel the stones. You’d need two vans for the same purpose. And if it’s roughly the same size, what’s the problem? Vans like that can be nice too, we see lots of Ford transits here in the states for tradesmen. Similar use case to what you’re describing.
But a van and a truck are used for different things. Your not going to see a van around the farm for example because it just isn’t that useful for farm work. Just like your not going to see a truck out delivering packages because it just isn’t the useful for that use case. Many of these vehicles have the exact same frame and engion just with a different body on top for whatever best fits the use case.
Yeah sure but I guess my point was that it’s a false equivalency. The truck on the right is massively more capable than the one on the left. I certainly don’t need one that big and most people don’t.
The Ford Maverick is the smallest, if that’s what you’re thinking. A bit larger, but with better towing and off-road ability, you’re looking at Ford Ranger, Chevy Colorado/GMC Canyon, Toyota Tacoma, and Nissan Frontier.
Yikes?! A Ford RANGER is considered a small truck to you?? They’re part of the growing plague of stupidly large trucks in my part of the world!? :-/ I mean I knew the US had big trucks but I never thought the Ranger would be considered the small alternative?! We’re so screwed?! :-(
It’s so shocking?! I’m looking at a Ranger out in the car park right now and trying to imagine something bigger parked out there?! It wouldn’t fit within the bounds of the parking space?! Already if there were two Rangers parked next to each other there wouldn’t be enough room to walk between them, even if you turned side on :-/ Let alone having room to be able to open the door and get in & out?!
In fact I can see that it’s had a flow on effect whereby every other parked car has had to park on the extreme edge of their space to allow room to open the door and get out. If there was one more Ranger anywhere along the line someone would be likely blocked from getting in or out of their car!
The Ranger in the 80s and 90s was a perfectly reasonable size. The new ones are gigantic next to them, but they’re still smaller than almost anything available in the North American market.
It is one of the smallest available in US. Of course I’m referring to Tacoma with a standard cab, not the People Hauler 5000 it’s basically a minivan crew cab configuration.
The Tacoma would actually be my pickup of choice. I hate the modern styling, but the Toyota build is just so solid & Ford as of late has been disappointing. To say the least. The green movement is not only based on size, but how durable a product is & if it can last for many, many years of reliable operation. Unfortunately we do not have Hilux, but Tacoma is America’s version of Hilux.
Now this is just personal taste, but I really don’t like the looks of that truck. Cosmetically, I put it on the same level as the Chevy Colorado. Generally speaking, Hyundai isn’t known for quality builds like Toyota, not even close.
That said: the new Hyundai Elantra makes the short list of vehicles I’d be interested in, buying new. Scotty Kilmer praises its naturally aspirated, non-turbo engine & traditional build components. Thinks it could last a long time. 👍🏻
I love it so far, especially now that I got a bed extender so I can haul full sheets of plywood and such.
It’s got a ton of power under the hood. I average around 26/30mpg, but my wife averages 28/32-35mpg
It’s really roomy inside too. I’m 6’3 and this is the first vehicle I’ve driven where I didn’t have to move the seat all the way back. And people are able to sit comfortably behind me.
I highly recommend trying to get one with the tourneau cover on the bed, because it’s amazing. But don’t get the trailer hitch from them. You can save $3-400 having a local mechanic do it.
My only real gripes are that the AC blows too hard on its lowest setting (for me) if just the upper vents are blowing. The ride is also pretty smooth, so I often catch myself speeding without realizing it. Also that the steering wheel controls don’t have a play/pause button.
I’d skip the Santa Cruz largely since Hyundai/Kia are experts at cost-cutting that blows up big in customer faces down the line. (anti-theft, engines, warranty work, wiring, etc.) but your options are already limited so I wouldn’t blame you for getting it. I’d get the base engine/transmission though if you anticipate stop/go traffic or off-road use since the dual-clutch in the upper engine option is better than dry clutch models but IMHO still suspect.
I would lean towards the Maverick but neither are really “small” since they’re still pretty long.
There’s the Transit Connect if you want a cargo van that’s compact.
After many years of driving different cars/trucks/other I want to know why at some point in the year 2000 decided that vision out of a moving vehicle was secondary to swoopy body lines. Get in something from the 60’s and you can see amazing (even in a boat of a car) yet by 2006 you can not see shit. for example:
Safety priority for those inside the vehicle. Significant improvement in side impact protection came around in the 2000’s. At the cost of thicker pillars, taller thicker doors, heavier cars.
Tiny bit of backstory: I work in Spain so there’s a lot of kissing on the chicks when greeting someone. Spanish people kiss twice, in western countries people kiss 3 times so sometimes there’s a bit of confusion. Anyway, once a girl from Romania met a French co-worker next to my desk. Typical greeting and she says:
How do French people kiss?
The guy got a little bit confused and says:
Trust me, you don’t want me to show you how the French kiss…
Not really related but I found it extremely funny.
Again, those are nice vehicles but can’t replace a truck for certain things. A truck can haul much more weight and I wouldn’t want a van because a lot of the time the stuff we’re hauling is too big to fit inside or just straight up garbage and debris that I’d rather have in an outside bed.
I mean the whole rest of the world seems to manage just fine without these, and we have tradesmen as well? The cabins can be as clean or dirty as you need, I’ve seen everything, loading trash or debris is also fine. If you’re really carrying mostly gravel or other type of stuff like that then you’d have something specialized for that with a much bigger box than on your pickups, or rent it for the job.
But looking at your other comments in the thread I see that you’re just set in your ideas and just looking at finding justifications for niche cases where it might be a superior vehicle, which I don’t deny certainly exist, but that’s not the problem, the problem is these are a dime a dozen if not the majority on your roads, and they’re not at all good as normal vehicles whereas the vans are. Also they’re honestly just superior in pretty much every way, flat bottom, low load-in height, can accept pallets, stuff stays dry, locked, engines are efficient and not crazy oversize and gaz-guzzling, they have good viewing angles at the front (e.g. you would see a child in front of the vehicle), etc etc etc.
So you agree with me than? Idk how many times I have to say yes I agree most people don’t need trucks, I don’t personally like trucks nor have I ever had one and I don’t plan on ever getting one, but they should still exist for those niche cases (although there seems to be more than you think exist). I’ll admit I was wrong about a trucks payload when compared to a van but it still wouldn’t work for most of the work I do. If you wanna carry the four person team that I work with they’d have to sit in the back taking away from the space required to haul materials, not to mention even if we wanted to drop two guys and have the full cargo space we still wouldn’t be able to haul as much as we can in our truck bed.
Also I agree vans are superior in a lot of ways, if they work for you I would absolutely suggest getting one instead of a truck, and some of your points are great but I gotta ask. You think trucks can’t accept pallets?! I feel like it’s far easier to put a pallet in a truck than a van lol. Not to mention you can stack multiple pallets on a truck! Also the low flat bottom is certainly a plus for some cases but that’s negative for when we need to haul materials off road on some shitty lumpy mud trails. And as far as gas guzzling goes trucks have become a lot more efficient over the years, obviously they’re still about the worst personal vehicles you can get as far as gas mileage goes but vans aren’t that much better.
I think we do agree, it’s hard to tell sometimes haha. I base my view that they’re not needed by 99% of the population on the fact I see much less than 1% of them on our roads (thankfully) and everyone seems to be doing just fine.
I get it, they’re kind of a middle ground trying to do it all but it fails at doing so imo and in the process, creates dangerous and polluting vehicles, compounded by the fact they’re getting bought on whim or as social status but then never see the use they’re supposed to be made for, just terrible all around.
But indeed I don’t deny they can be good specialized vehicles, I just think these cases are <1% of the population like if you’re chasing bears in the arctic or something, and certainly trades people etc would generally not need them and be better served by alternatives.
Lol I hear ya, especially over the internet! But yeah, we definitely agree that there are far too many trucks on the road and too many people buying trucks for dumb reasons.
That’s anecdotal evidence, I’ve never even seen a kei truck in real life but that doesn’t mean I think they aren’t out there, and sure you could fit a couple guys up front. But I’ve seen plenty of teams of 4 or sometimes even more come piling out of a work truck. I’m currently in one with four people right now! And just to be clear I agree there are far too many trucks and not every suburban dad needs one, but you blame the driver not the truck. There are absolutely instances where a full size truck is the best vehicle for the job, just like there are instances where a kei truck makes far more sense.
Of course, but that doesn’t mean one should get it. If you are gonna haul wood once a year, you are not BUYING a log trailer and just tow it behind you vehicle through the city all year - like a sensible person, you rent one for a day or two.
You did, but said I blame the driver not the truck. Who else to blame? The driver bought and is using the vehicle. I am not against using a vehicle for it’s job, but so many drivers just don’t do that.
I am sure the F-150 has a legitimate use, but it’s seldom used to it’s full potential, and for some reason it’s MOSTLY used legitimately.
Yeah exactly get mad at the driver who buys a truck they don’t need. But don’t be mad at trucks simply for existing, they have good reasons to exist. That’s the only point I’m trying to make.
Idk why I thought otherwise lol that’s my bad but yeah looking back I agree with all your comments lmao, it seems like there are others in this thread that just straight up don’t think trucks should exist though lol
It’s not about what you have, it’s what you do with it. I have carried things in my small sedan that you would never believe. You are just underestimating japanese tech and Mexican capacity for not giving an f.
The Suzuki Carry has a bed width of 1585mm (62.4") the Silverado has a max bed width of 64.8" (1646mm) so 60mm/2.5" wider. But the Silverado’s bed isn’t rectangular, ie if you want to lay something flat, the widest it can be is 50" (1270mm). That’s a foot narrower than the Suzuki.
The Silverado has higher walls which imo isn’t really a plus or minus. (More bulk materials, and less need to tie things down, but harder to access the things).
There are a lot of other differences in available configurations. I think the reason a lot of people prefer Silverados boil down to esthetics, and the perceptions of others. I think that for a lot of men, pickup trucks are an expression of their masculinity. They want something big and powerful that they can take into the woods and be manly^tm^ with.
A Carry is very practical and if I owned a landscaping business I think that’s what I’d want my crews to be driving.
But also, I’m not a business owner. I’m a man and I get it. Honestly I’d way rather own that enormous impractical pickup. I’m more likely to be hauling hockey gear than lumber and drywall. I’m tall and girthy, I appreciate a spacious cab. I have child seats in my car.
Maybe men should stop pretending they don’t care a lot about fun.
Edit to add: but I do agree we need society to be less car/truck centric.
Tbh I was going to say that at least some of the new fangled pick ups have easy to remove wheels, most of that stuff is easy to check, replace tires etc, but besides that from what I’ve been told they’re as much a pain to drive as they are to giveaway to
I once was hiking in the Tatras and upon reaching a part that was more difficult, heaved a sigh and said “Pizdec”. Everybody laughed, even people from further away.
Well depend on which side you were, in Czech it means iirc “fuck”, in Polish we have related word “piździec”, usually used in “ale piździec” or “ale piździ” which means roughly “it’s windy as fuck here” - pretty relevant in Tatras.
Sure, I guess I just imagined it will be easy to find people to cum in their mouths later in my life so I simply ignored this one random opportunity. Had I known how much time will I have to wait to actually cum in someone’s mouth… And how difficult it is to find a random person offering this. It pretty much never happens.
Real. solidarność is not even an yellow union, it’s anti-union. During 15 years after its victory Poland was deindustrialized, deunionized and had its already flimsy labour law not even applicable for 50% of jobs. solidarność still exist as the biggest “union” and mostly does things like supporting PiS, doing all possible manner of church servilism and sabotaging other unions.
Well damn, didn’t know that. Mostly Polish people tend to be glib about the goings on of Poland proper, mostly because the ones I’ve met get defensive and are just generally dismissive of ideas like joining a local union without actually properly telling me why they’re hesitant.
In my country Polish labourers have kind of been abused as a workforce, but they kind of seem okay being abused as a workforce - when they’re not in deep argument over the phone with their agencies. But even then, instead of actually organising in any way, they just accept their fate so to speak, acting all tough, when getting less in the negotiation process and worse contracts generally.
It’s gotten to a point where I think employment agencies should be illegal, because they serve more or less as labour “handlers”, trying to screw over pretty much anyone, and even technically breaking the law sometimes, all to save their clients (the actual employers) a buck. Trying to withhold overtime, vacation pay, sick days, etc.
This has also lead to a race to the bottom, whereby no youngsters in this country wants to work construction anymore. It’s all been cost cut and widdled down to a point where only foreign labour wants to work in those conditions. That’s bad.
I’m not against foreign labour, but using foreign labour to manipulate and subvert the local labour market is not cool, and again, I’m not blaming Polish people. I mean get the bag, lol.
But still, greedy asshats are at it again. What’s the next market they’re gonna fuck up? Who knows?
Also, I’m hopeful for the political turn of events in Poland ^^ I’m not that fond of liberals, be they neo, classic or “social democrat”, but I think it was about time to take the PiS out of Poland.
In Poland there is mostly no choice anyway, unions only exist in state owned workplaces and big private, plus also in the administration. And often it’s the solidarność which have way closer ties to boss, local PiS bonzos and priests than to workers. Therefore often the choice is to antagonise the boss for basically nothing and end up even worse just with extra steps or just eat the shit up but retain the job. I think the historical trauma after solidarność also lingers still.
I’m not against foreign labour, but using foreign labour to manipulate and subvert the local labour market is not cool, and again, I’m not blaming Polish people. I mean get the bag, lol.
Sure. We are on both ends of that stick actually. I remember around 2013+ the job market was finally getting a bit better, largely due to lots of people going to west EU for years, and of course local porkys started to grumble loud that they are forced to raise wages and give people some benefits or maybe even employ them on real contracts instead of trash gigs. And when year later, Ukraine had a coup and started to hit their people with yet another round of shock therapy causing massive economic emmigration, voila! Polish govt drastically lowered all formalities and restrictions for them (while at the same time very loudly protesting against few thousands Syrians which EU wanted to place in Poland) which resulted in 2+ million Ukrainians immigrating to Poland with expected result of social dumping.
What’s your take on Tusk and the new government?
Tusk is undobtedly better than Kaczyński, since he’s more pragmatic and realistic, but still he’s the absolutely old neoliberal vulture, worse, a successful old neoliberal vulture, along with Kaczyński those two are the most veteran politicians on the top of Polish politics (Kaczyński is longer in it but he got significant period of being ousted in the 90’s).
This is of course very low bar, and i expect the harsh austerity, but i at least hope they won’t try any funny meddling in the Ukraine war.
Nah, partially because we were buying all the German crashed cars for years, but mostly because Poles after 1989 eaten up the car culture especially the part of car being status symbol.
Trees offer real world benefits of carbon reduction, temperature reduction, shade for people, the psychological benefits that trees offer, some limited wildlife habitat, and they do it without much outside help. They grow themselves with decent maintenance.
But you have to build and maintain this tank. What carbon was used to do so, and what maintenance will it need. Can it offset its own cost? It offers no benefits to wildlife, no shade, no temperature reduction.
Yeah, trees leave leaf litter and can heave sidewalks with roots, but given that neither system is perfect, there’s no reason to argue that boxes of algae are better.
Why do we need to argue which is better? In some places, beautification isn’t really practical, but you can still stick these around. They don’t look hard to install or uninstall, unlike trees.
I would hate to see a tree actually replaced by one these. But no one but the meme is saying that is the plan.
I think we have reached the limit for how much we should “improve” and replace nature, if there’s no room for trees we should make room instead of accomodating yet another industrial solution to a problem created by industry in the first place.
EPA regulations that car manufacturers used as a way to game the system by not focusing on ICE efficency, hybridization, transitioning to electric sooner.
This is the same reason sedans have gotten larger or disappeared in favor of “cross-overs”.
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