I see way more posts that are pro-systemd than anti these days, so I think you might be tilting at windmills a bit.
I would love to think about systemd less, but I’ve worked with it professionally since a year or so before Debian switched while I was an intern working in embedded. I got to see the flame wars and shaped my opinion of systemd by wrestling with its growing pains. Writing your own service files and working with DBus was ass back then, and while it has gotten better, my patience with it has diminished. In the end the frustration was enough that after I ditched windows, systemd was the next to go.
That would be the end of it, but other programs keep growing annoying systemd dependencies or their projects get swallowed up by the systemd ecosystem entirely. I was so excited at the start to work with the parallel execution and dependency management, but the number of times systemd broke something, swallowed up the output, and then corrupted its own journal and lost the logs really turned me against it.
I don’t know, I’m not a power-user so systemd is just a thing in the background, I don’t have much opinions over it.
I think you might be tilting at windmills a bit.
No systemd love or hate for me, as for the meme, I respect both opinions (I’m still learning btw) but don’t particularly like proselitjzers. Sharing an opinion and experiences (like you did) is fine and often informative, what I don’t like are people (expecially on lower-quality places like 4chan) spamming stuff like “systemd is the devil and killed my child” or “systemd weights more than the Linux kernel” I guess I need to make up my mind, haven’t interacted with the OS at a low enough level yet.
I understand what you mean. If you are on the fence and not super interested in init systems, you can pretty easily get by with systemd without thinking about it. Most desktop environments have tools to manage user services in easy GUI’s, and you can find guides for anything more advanced you want to accomplish with them usually.
If you want to dive in though, systemd is a great init system to learn. Nowadays learning systemd is a lot less of a moving target, and it’s in use virtually everywhere so the knowledge is valuable. It’s also fairly well documented at this point, which is great for learning how it works.
My personal advice if you want to go that path is to just open up some service files. There are lots of interesting examples in /lib/systemd/system Systemd service files are just plain text, and pretty straightforward to read. Its divided into nice sections, and naming is pretty straightforward (Or the systemd brainworms are really in deep). Look for names you recognize or programs you use. Especially ones you are familiar with on the command line. I don’t recommend changing them to start, especially in the system directory, just open a couple and you should quickly start seeing the connections between what they are trying to accomplish and whats in each file. Then if you see anything you don’t understand or peaks your curiousity check the documentation. Once you’re ready try writing one of your own for something in the usr service directory. No pressure though, its not necessarily essential knowledge
The fact that this exists makes me so happy. I doubt I’d ever use a smart buttplug, but I’m oddly relived that those who want Bluetooth up their ass can do so using open-source software.
Documentation is always outdated and useless. GNOME is crap. apt has a dependency issue every week. Repos have software ranging from bleeding edge to horrendously outdated. Netplan is next level stupid and also decides to break for no reason. Systemd waits for network to boot by default because reasons. Versioning and LTS adds more magic fun to doing anything because of the aforementioned documentation. Last time I used it, still had crap interoperability when switching DEs for some weird reason. Canonical is the big dumb dumb. All the downstreams inherit the same problems like PopOS and elementary.
I took all of that experience and thought it was the default linux expectations until I got to try Debian for server and Fedora for desktop.
Unfortunately, people make the same mistake as me and then assume broken Ubuntu is just how linux is.
Credit though, it did get to teach me the general ins and outs of linux because I needed to fix or change something every other week.
Not OP, I like gnome and all but I Ubuntu’s extensions/custom version of gnome is awful and makes trying to change settings so much worse because the gnome documentation doesn’t always match with all of the changes Ubuntu adds on top. Maybe they’re talking about that?
That’s true, but installing a whole new desktop environment also kind of goes against the whole “ease of use” part. If someone’s going to go to a whole different flavor they might as well just use something like Mint or Mint DE unless they specifically need Ubuntu for a dev environment or program/driver compatibility. That way they can still get the ease of use benefit but without dealing with all of the weird oddities that Ubuntu can introduce.
Yeah I just find for newer users the amount of Ubuntu support has always been a huge plus if you’re just getting in to messing with Linux. It’s a lot better now but it used to be things like “how to do x on Ubuntu,” there would always be some super easy to follow tutorial. My personal preference is just a Debian install but the more catered experiences like Mint and Ubuntu do a great job at presenting Debian to daily users without any hassle.
It most certainly does. It’s the only distro that I do not trust anymore to do a proper job of automatically partitioning your drive during setup, after getting complaints from my parents that Ubuntu refused to install updates. Turned out it had created a rediciously small boot partition and was now complaining that it had not enough space left to install new kernel versions as they kept around all old ones. “Because users might want to use those”, according to their documentation. Bitch, you market yourself as the distro suitable for absolute beginners, but you not only expect them to know what a kernel is, but also that they clean them up their selves? What an absolutely moronic decision.
I’ve had broken installations after upgrades to a major version in the past and I’ve seen a number of colleagues switch to plain Debian or Arch derivatives after Ubuntu decided to crap out after a major upgrade.
I’ve seen Ubuntu systems not being able to upgrade due to circular dependencies that couldn’t be resolved by Apt, package Foo requires Bar, Bar requires Baz, Baz requires Foo. Or even packages from their own repository that couldn’t be upgraded because some dependency wasn’t available anymore.
Just a handful of the issues I’ve encountered with Ubuntu. Personally I’m done with that distro. If it works for you, by all means use it. But I don’t help friends and colleagues (we all get to choose our own distro fortunately, but also have to fix issues ourselves) anymore when they decide to go Ubuntu. Use a proper distro if you want my help, not that Fisher-Price ‘My First Linux’ crap.
This is garbage, preposterous even! Kali is a toy lockpick for script kiddies, parrotOS is where the real deal is. Or you know just install the tools on debian.
It was PHLAK back in the day. I just like Kali because it has so many tools ready to go out of the box. Run Debian as main OS though and it’s pretty simple to add their repos and install them.
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