Why would you pay for an incompetent sabotaging system?
I installed both windows and Linux about a week ago. Linux was (with download and USB creation) a little over 30 minutes. Windows was an agonizing 7 hour journey through all sorts of dumb vague error messages, internet searches disconnecting and reconnecting drives, various rewrites the that USB drive, having to spin up a VPS in Linux and install windows there first… It was a fucking nightmarish hellscsape caused by a mix of windows developers (and their managers) incompetence and pure sabotage of people that use real operating systems.
Fuck everything about Microsoft, install Linux and stick with that. We have cookies
NGL I gotta say that sounds like a fluke. I’ve never had to spend more than an hour on a fresh windows install. I run Windows on my desktop and Linux Mint on my laptop. So while I haven’t done thousands of installs if 7 hours was a constant issue no one would be using Windows.
What kind og software did you need to find? Last time i did a fresh install of win10 (a couple of weeks ago), I downloaded Rufus to make the bootable USB and that was the only thing I needed to go “fish for all over the internet”… 30min later I was up and running, updates scheduled to run during the night when I didn’t need to use the computer.
How did you manage to do that? Installing Windows 11 only took me about 30 minutes last time. Installing Debian takes about the same time. And what does a VPS even have to do with all of this?
For me the 30 minutes to install is about right. After that I have usable Linux and an unusable Windows.
To get Windows to the same state:
Add 5 Minutes for clicking trough the "Do you want to enable handwriting? ((( We just allow ourselves to collect samples of everything you write to “improve our recognition engine” )))
Add 20-30 minutes of security updates (thankfully it got much faster with SSDs, before it could have been hours)
Add 20-30 minutes of installing necessary software like an office suite, PDF Reader with basic functionality, 7zip. This is only 30 minutes because I spent hours automating the downloads and installs trough scripts.
If it is my system or a company system: Add 20 minutes to go trough the settings of Win10Privacy to at least reduce the phoning home and to enable some necessary settings for working with the system like "Don’t restart at random times"
Add 10 Minutes to remove the installed bloatware like People, Windows Maps, Windows Experience Host, …
In summary:
Linux requires 5 minutes attention and is ready after 30min.
Windows requires 40 minutes of attention and is somewhat ready after 2h30min. Even if I skip the privacy stuff its still at about 1h20min.
To be fair: On Windows and Linux I immediately install ublock to Firefox afterwards, on Linux I run a single apt command to install some more niche software which takes about 3 minutes on a fast network connection.
I’m sorry but you are just cherry picking. I’m not going into detail, but it sounds more like you have no knowledge on windows then you do. There are many ways to shorten installs for programs, those are not windows system and can be removed from your time, same for win10privacy, same for the ‘bloatware’. In all that leaves 30 min install and 30 mins of security 'in the background’ still 30min.
I am very happy if you can enlighten me. Granted, I do not install Windows very often (otherwise I would bake all these things into an image), and there may be improvements. So feel free to make your point and save me time.
An no, security updates can’t run in the background. If I sit a user in front of a PC, the PC has to be secure. Which means that the zero day exploits from a few days ago which are already exploited in the wild have to be fixed. Also yes, software for basic tasks and configuration till usability is reached is part of an operating system install. Otherwise you have to compare the time to install a barebones Linux (1 Minute) with a bare Windows install (still 30 minutes).
I currently use chocolatey for automation of software installs. But Libreoffice alone takes minutes to install on Windows even on fast PCs. If you know a better/faster tool I am happy to listen.
So, I came here with a bit of knowledge in Linux having fucked around with Ubuntu and Arch here and there, and I can tell you, even with a sturdy and non-rolling release like Fedora Silverblue, there are easily things I can do in Windows that just work without any additional overhead or configuration that simply does not work in Linux, like fingerprint sensors.
You guys all say Windows sucks and Linux is the greatest thing since sliced bread but it still can’t do the fucking basics that Windows does in spades. When I install Windows on a machine, I have nearly a 100% guarantee that every single component is going to work properly with minimal config. When I try to do the same thing in Linux, it’s hours on the Arch wiki or deep into forums trying to figure out how to get something as basic as a fingerprint sensor to work. That’s not convenient for the average user, and you guys are not the goddamn average user, because you are okay with shit not working out of the box and doing configurations for a lot of little things that you would otherwise just take entirely for granted as simply working on Windows.
Download windows media tool. Start installation. Done in ~30 min. After install, downloads all necessary basic drivers automatically. Just have to download Nvidia GeForce. < I have installed my own PC yes, multiple times yes.
Enjoy your Linux, please don’t lie to prove unexisting superiority.
I disagree with the premise, but even if it’s true that people stay with Windows because it sucks less, that’s still a success story for Linux. External comparative pressure leading to more end user freedom. Think of where it could go next!
I find Redhat annoying with how they lock down access to KB articles unless you have a subscription and certain "proprietary " things they do but I managed over 500 RHEL 7 and 8 servers at my previous job and I will say that their support is excellent, and RHEL is rock solid. Satellite server on the other hand, that thing is a steaming pile of garbage…
Yeah Satellite was the worst thing about managing RHEL but it’s still leagues better than similar products for Windows. We basically just used Sat for licensing and as a local repo so it wasn’t too bad for that. We started using Ansible more just as I left my sysadmin career. Lots of rhel with rac and jboss.
All the talk of Mint lately. Looks like my fifteen-year Ubuntu streak may be coming to an end. Will I, decidedly not a power-user just an Internet browser, occasional game player, Csound programmer, Libreoffice user notice a difference? Is Mint better at printing? That’s the only real problem I’ve had with Ubuntu over the years.
In my experience Linux is better at printing than windows. Especially debian based distros.
However you can just Google your printer and see if there are issues.
Edit: can’t read. I don’t know if there will be any change on printing since mint really just removes snap and Ubuntu stuff and adds flatpak and a few smaller details.
It was weird. Ubuntu 18.04 LTS printed perfectly. First try, every time. Barring printer issues not related to the OS anyway. Then, 20.04 dropped, and I couldn’t print anything. For two years, I had to move files to the Mac on the front desk to print at work because it refused to print anything. Same printer. I tried a few fixes people had posted, but none worked for me, and most fixes were for HP printers and mine is an Epson, which no one reported any problems with.
Now, with 22.04, I get intermittent printing. It works more often than not, but I’d estimate my print jobs get randomly canceled about 30% of the time. Which is annoying, but not deal-breaking since I usually just push it through again, and it works. To be fair, it might be because of wireless printing, but I doubt it since like I said, 18.04 worked flawlessly with the exact same setup. I might just try out Mint sometime and see if it makes a difference.
@Underwaterbob@Johanno Have you considered using a Raspberry Pi as a printer server? It might not be ideal, but - if it (the Pi) is physically connected to your printer - I wonder if it could negate the 30% failure rate?
That sounds like a lot of trouble and potential trouble for people who use the printer who don’t have the trouble I do. I can live with the failure rate. It happens quickly, and I can just print again. If Mint fixes it, that’s great!
Someone even wrote a version of dc (the arbitrary precision RPN desktop calculator) with it. They were clearly insane of course, but it proves that sed is more than just find and replace.
Honourable mention to awk's sub() and gsub() that, at least for basic find/replace, do the same thing. awk is often surprisingly quick.
In the spirit of bashing Ubuntu, I’d like to propose we stick with the swiss army knife. But it’s one of those strange Kickstarter projects where it’s entirely controlled by an unnecessary phone app.
Arch being something that requires some research and prep beforehand makes sense through. As well as having fans who will swear that is actually quite enjoyable if you try it.
I’m not a linux power user but have some servers running on linux and honestly wouldn’t change it with anything else, as everything runs smooth and maintainance is easy and straight forward. Even if something gets fucked there is a great online community which helped me out everytime.
That said, and sorry for the long introduction:
I read a lot systemd memes in the last weeks: What is the problem with it and why is it trending now?
Sysinit was basically one file where you tell a process what to do, start, reload, stop. Systems is way way more complicated and according to some, prone to breaking.
It’s funny, after your first sentence, I thought “yeah, that’s exactly the problem. Copy&paste fragile shell code for managing processes instead of standardized lifecycle management”. Then your second sentence painted that horrible mess as “less complicated”
Nothing new. Nothing recent. Just people being scared of something because they don’t know how it works or because it’s relatively new.
Major distros have started adopting it in recent years. It’s one of many ways for a distro to manage which services are running. Many of the others are essentially a hodgepodge of shell scripts.
systemd provides a lot of flexibility with service dependencies and logging, amount other things. It has a standard way to have user-scoped services. It’s standardizes filtering logs for specific services.
basicly people complaining about what they don’t understand, that it don’t follow unix philosophy, when that philosophy was created 50 years ago, any way,etc, if systemd wasn’t good anyone could have adopted it, and everyone did, beause it easier, it’s faster and it work
I’m neither a systemd fan nor a hater, but in my experience not even enterprise linux distributors can get it to work correctly all the time. That tells me that maybe it is too complicated.
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